The Psychology Behind Every Yes: Dr. Robert Cialdini on Influence Without Manipulation

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If you can show people that you are not just like them, you are one of them, you get significantly more willingness to say yes.
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Dr. Robert Cialdini is one of the world's leading experts on influence and the author of two of my all-time favorite books, Influence, The Psychology of Persuasion, and his follow-up, Pre-suasion.
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His work has changed the way that leaders and salespeople and marketers and just everyday people understand why we say yes.
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But this conversation isn't about tricks or tactics or playing mind games.
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It's about trust.
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It's about how people really make decisions.
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How leaders move people without manipulating them.
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The process of persuasion is another route to get people to say yes by simply informing them into a sense.
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And what happens when technology starts pulling us farther apart instead of bringing us closer together?
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Because at the end of the day, influence isn't just about getting someone to say yes.
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It's about who we become while trying.
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Dr. Robert Cialdini, welcome.
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I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.
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Well, I'm looking forward to it, Josh.
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Why do people say yes, even when they think, or even when they might not want to say yes?
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Well, that's a fascinating question.
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Some people try to get to yes by virtue of power.
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hierarchical authority where they order people or penalize people or coerce people into moving in their direction.
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I guess those work, but they have long term costs, both financial and in social capital.
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People just don't like being pushed in a particular direction.
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But for me, the process of persuasion is another route to get people to say yes by simply informing them into assent, giving them the evidence of how what we're recommending or proposing will produce better outcomes for them.
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And I claim that there are seven universal principles of persuasion
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where if we include one or another into our message, we significantly increase the likelihood of assent to it, of yes to it, because we've steered people in a direction that's likely to be beneficial for them.
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You know, when I look back into the history of people who've talked about persuasion, Benjamin Franklin said something I thought was very important.
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He said, should you wish to persuade, speak not to logical argument, speak to self-interest of your audience.
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Yeah.
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So, these principles that I say, if you include into your message, you increase the likelihood of yes, all work to increase the outcomes of the people that you're dealing with.
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So, I want to get into the seven principles, but before I do, I have a question about speaking to somebody's own self-interests.
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How do you do that?
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What did he mean by that when he said it?
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Well, he didn't restrict himself to financial self-interest.
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For example, if you show people how what you're recommending is...
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is consistent with their values, with their beliefs, with their preferences, well, if they move in that direction, that allows them to feel better about themselves, increases their outcomes interpersonally, intrapersonally, because they feel more aligned.
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Those are, so there's all kinds of ways to get to people's preferences.
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Reputation, for example, just show them that what you're suggesting, um, is something that will enhance their, uh, reputation, uh, enhance their likely success because authorities seem to be saying that this is the best way for them to go.
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Each of those principles, uh,
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will move people in a positive direction because you've enlightened them about the likelihood, never the certainty.
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We're talking about human behavior.
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You don't find certainty there.
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But the likelihood of a greater impact and greater success if they follow that particular path.
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Okay.
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So, can we move into, for those who don't know about your work, can we move into the principles and kind of what they are in a brief synopsis of why each one is important?
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Surely.
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The first one is one of the most primitive of all.
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I don't mean it in the derogatory sense of
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...brutish or crude.
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I mean it in... ...it's so elemental... ...to who we are as a species.
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And that is the principle of reciprocation.
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In every human society... ...there is not a single culture... ...that fails to train itself... ...and its members... ...from childhood... ...in the rule for reciprocation... ...that says...
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...I am obligated to you...
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If you have first given to me...
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I should pay back those I owe.
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So if you do me a favor, if you give me a gift, if you give me information that benefits me by the rules, I am obligated to give back to you when you need something, when I can benefit you.
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So, for example, a lovely study that was done in McDonald's, right?
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And these were McDonald's locations in Brazil and in Colombia, so not in the United States.
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It shows you the cross-cultural reach of these principles.
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Every family that came into the McDonald's locations typically got a balloon for the kids as they left, as a nice thank you for frequenting McDonald's, right?
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Well, our team, led by my colleague Stephen J. Martin, said, why don't we try reciprocation?
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Give them the balloon as they come in.
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not as they leave, so that they have received something from you.
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Spend went up 25%.
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25%.
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And inside that 25% was a 20% increase in coffee.
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The kids weren't ordering the coffee.
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This was a gift to the parents.
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And I don't know if you have kids.
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I know you do a favor for my kids.
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You've done a favor for me.
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And I'm going to pay you back when I get the chance.
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It's the same balloon, costs the same amount, but what you give first.
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is the key to unlocking the rule of reciprocity.
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Go first.
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Give benefits.
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Give advantages.
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Give information.
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You know, in the household service trades, for example,
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I love it when somebody comes to my door on a service call and gives me a tip sheet of things that will benefit my home.
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Here are the things that you should most do to safeguard your home, or here are the five mistakes that people make when they're seeking to do some kind of a repair versus a replacement and so on.
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Not designed to help them, but designed to help me.
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If that tip sheet looks like it's oriented toward increasing the outcomes of the person who gave it to you, it's not a gift anymore.
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It's a marketing strategy.
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people now feel obligated and grateful to you for that.
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But it has the potential to have the opposite effect if it feels like it's self-serving.
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That's exactly right.
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So that tip sheet should be, here's how to safeguard your home, right?
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Here's how to, here's the thing you can best do to increase the resale value of your home.
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And here's a series of things you can do that isn't necessarily related to what you are doing, right?
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as a company, as a provider, just for them, just information for them.
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If it looks like it's a marketing strategy, it's not a gift anymore, and they don't feel obligated or grateful for it.
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And does it have to be tangible or can it be intangible like a compliment or something of that nature?
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Or is it most effective when you can hand somebody something?
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No, it can be information.
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Okay.
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It can even be...
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So, I mean, you can hand people something, but you could tell them something.
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It can even be something like the amount of effort you have put in to doing a job.
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A lot of times, let's say when I go to my automobile industry,
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I have a 67 Mustang that I drive.
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That's my car.
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And so when I go and I get it fixed, my mechanic shows me not just...
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the items that he replaced and how much time it took, he details exactly every step that he took along the way.
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So, I see how much effort he put in, and I want to give him something in return for that effort.
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So, it can be, it doesn't have to be material at all.
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Okay.
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What's number two?
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Number two is one nobody would be surprised at, and that's the liking rule.
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People prefer to say yes to those they like.
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In every sales training program I've ever been part of, just to see how they work, they will say the number one rule of sales is to get...
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your customer to like you.
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And then they want to do business with you.
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They're happy to have an exchange with you and so on.
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I think that's very important, but I don't think it's the number one rule.
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I think that's the number two rule of sales.
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The number one rule of sales is to come to like your customer and show them
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And as soon as they see that you like them, all the defenses come down.
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Because we know that the people who like us are going to do well for us, are going to take care of us.
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We've protected our flanks now.
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By dealing with people who like us, we're not going to be gouged by the people who like us.
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So, if we can just show people that we truly like them, so honest praise, for example, giving people a compliment, that's genuine.
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is an example of that.
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Also, showing people that you like them because you have similarities to them.
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Really, you were born in Michigan.
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I was born in Michigan, or my wife was born in Michigan, or you like Chinese food, Korean food.
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I love Korean food, whatever it is.
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Show them the commonalities.
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They recognize that if you have recognized those commonalities, you're going to like them more because we like those who are like us.
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So show people that.
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There was a wonderful study I saw online.
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I'm sure all of your viewers have websites.
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How do you get the liking principle to work online?
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How do you show people that you like them?
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You haven't met them?
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You have no history with them?
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Yeah, this is a million-dollar question right now.
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It turns out there was a study done of 6,700 online commercial sites where they looked at what things you could put in versus take out of your site that would increase conversions, right, from visitor to buyer.
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If you had a welcoming statement on the front page, the landing page of your website, welcome to our site, we're so glad that you decided to join us, you get significantly more conversions before they read a word of what you have to offer because you've given them approval.
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You've welcomed them like you would to your home.
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Warmth.
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So there are various ways to let people know that you approve of them, you welcome them, you like them.
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And as a consequence, they will want to like you in return and do business with you.
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One thing I've always wondered about the liking principle, where does that stand against respect?
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Because I'm heavily influenced by people that I greatly respect.
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Is it in the same conversation as being liked?
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It's similar, but respect really has to do with the authority principle.
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Oh, it says that people want to follow those individuals that they feel have expertise and credibility in a situation who they respect in terms of their opinions and background qualifications and so on again.
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If you know that, it increases the likelihood of your success, your own success, if you follow that person's recommendations.
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Or if as a marketing person, you show them the experts who've spoken in your direction, who have agreed that your idea or your service is a good idea.
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is a good one, right?
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Then that respect translates into greater compliance with your requests.
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So, for example...
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We did a study where we looked at on websites whether you listed one authority figure who testified for your product versus four.
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You got significantly more conversion if there were four.
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And that goes against what advertising agencies will tell you.
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They say, take your best testimonial.
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Don't do any others because they'll just dilute the power, the force of that best one.
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That's not what the data tell us.
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The data tell us that those subsequent testimonials don't dilute the best one.
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They validate it.
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They say, oh, okay, that means this wasn't just some cherry-picked example, some outsider, outlier example.
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No, this is something associated with consensus of authority.
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And the research is very clear.
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Consensus of authority wins the day every time over a singular authority person speaking in your behalf.
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So, it validates the best testimonial in this example.
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It validates that even more just by having other people or other testimonials along with it.
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That's right.
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And where does that fall against social proof?
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Because that's one of the principles as well, right?
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Exactly.
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Consensus is very important.
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It's social proof too.
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But,
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When people are uncertain, they don't look inside themselves for answers of what I should do in this situation, right?
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They look outside.
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And one place they look is to authorities, experts, qualified individuals.
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The other place they look is to peers.
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And if you can give people evidence of a lot of others just like them who have decided for your products or services, that's another accelerator of the influence process.
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They will say, well, okay, well, that's just like me.
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Then if a lot of people just like me have done it, whew, whew.
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I don't have to think through all of the pros and cons.
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That's a good rule of thumb to know that if I move in that direction, I'll be right too.
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We can go back to McDonald's, for example, where that same study that I told you about also looked at a problem that McDonald's has, which is essentially upgrading technology.
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and getting people to purchase more than what they typically buy.
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And at McDonald's, that's dessert.
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When you go to a McDonald's, you choose a burger, fries, and a drink.
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They have other desserts.
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They have desserts.
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They have...
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pies fruit pies they have a cookie but the one that is their proprietary is it is uh the mcflurry yeah okay so study was done for a half of the people who came in uh for one week the person behind the counter at the end of the order said would you like to purchase a dessert
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Okay, that's the control group.
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That's what they normally would say.
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The other half of the people heard, would you like to purchase a dessert?
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The McFlurry is our most popular here.
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In other words, social proof.
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Look at all the other people around you like you.
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The ones right here.
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Hmm.
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And they got a 45% increase in the purchase of desserts.
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Almost all were McFlurries.
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Just by saying that it was the most popular.
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And it was true.
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That's the whole thing about this thing.
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If you merely point to the true authority in this situation, you point to the true popularity in this situation, you haven't deceived anybody anymore.
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You've given them valuable information that allows them to make a good choice for themselves.
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There was a study done in China.
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It shows, again, how far this principle can reach these principles.
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In a restaurant, the researchers put little asterisks next to certain items on the menu.
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All right.
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What did the asterisk refer to further down on the menu?
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It wasn't, this is a specialty of the house, or this is the chef's choice for today, or his special selection for today.
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It was, this is one of our most popular items.
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And the choice of those items increased from 13% to 20% for each one, depending on which one it was.
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Which was, again, true.
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Wow.
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And we're going to get into a little bit of the ethics behind this in a bit.
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So I want to put a pin in that because I believe that's a very powerful statement that you've made a couple of times now, the fact that it's true.
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What are we missing from the principles?
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Okay, so we've talked about reciprocity, we've talked about liking, we've talked about authority, we've talked about social proof.
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Another is commitment and consistency.
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People want to be consistent with what they have already said or done, especially in your presence.
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especially in public, right?
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Because it's something they value about themselves.
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They don't want to be seen as wishy-washy or somebody who says one thing and does another.
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No, they want to be seen by themselves and by the people around them as having
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good consistency in how they behave and what they say and do.
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So if it's possible to just ask people at the beginning of an exchange, tell me, what are the things that would be most important to you in your benefit?
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What would be the things you would most like to see as an outcome here?
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get them to make a public statement of something that's true.
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Right, right.
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And then show them how what you have is congruent with that preference.
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So align what they say is true or what they believe is true with what you do.
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with what you do for what you provide or sim yes simply you don't ask them and have it and if you've got something that's worthwhile you are going to find you are going to be able to align with the things that most people want uh in in a situation in an exchange of one sort or another okay what's next scarcity
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We hear this one in marketing all the time.
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All the time.
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And that's because it works.
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People want more of those things they can have less of.
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So that doesn't just mean that you need to tell people that you have a limited supply or a limited time for them to move in a particular way.
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Those things work.
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Those things work, but that's not the only thing that works.
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For example, just showing people how what you have to offer is unique.
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They can't get this anywhere else.
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or uncommon, or rare, or dwindling in availability, honestly point to those things.
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They're going to listen to the next thing you have to say because they don't want to miss something that's scarce or rare or unique that they can't get from your rivals.
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Now, it may not be any one thing,
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In the modern world, commoditization of goods and services, it's tough to have any one thing that nobody else has.
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But I bet you can have a suite of features that nobody else has, a combination that conjointly nobody else has.
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Figure that out, man.
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Put that near the top of your presentation and that will be, you will be well served.
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And so will they be well served by having access to something they can't get elsewhere.
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even if what you provide is common, there's a way to organize it, say within your business or however you offer it, that is unique to you.
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Therefore, it's only something that you have and that can play into this principle.
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Exactly.
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Now, as I said, also, you can honestly tell people that you've got only so many,
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items left of a particular sort at a particular price.
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Honestly, just point to it.
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You can also tell people that you've got a sales option that's only good for a certain amount of time.
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And it turns out that one of those is more successful than the other, although they're both more successful.
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They're both successful.
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Scarcity of commodities, of items, works better.
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Because if other people go first and get them, you're out.
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So that spurs people to go in their direction.
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If you give people a week...
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They could wait as long as they need to, and they don't feel the same urgency.
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They don't feel the same spur.
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And a lot of times, at the end of the week, they've forgotten about you.
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But you tell them I...
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So there's a company called Booking.com that books hotel rooms around.
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And their marketing department tried something after reading my book on scarcity.
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They showed online this room, right?
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Here's this room at this price.
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And they honestly said, there are six other people looking at this room at this price.
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And there are only four rooms left at this price.
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That means, uh-oh, right?
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They installed this and they got a call from their tech people who said, something's wrong.
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our requests are exploding.
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They're going off the fit.
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And there must be a problem, a technological problem that we have to fix.
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And the marketing people say, no, we just changed this one thing.
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about the scarcity or the dwindling availability of items, right?
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And that's what spurred all these choices.
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You can only get this now.
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There are only so many.
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So if others sweep them up, you're gone.
283
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You don't get them at all.
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It's loss to you.
285
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And loss is the ultimate form of scarcity.
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Loss aversion, you're more afraid of losing something that you have than gaining something that you don't.
287
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Exactly right.
288
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There was a lovely study done in California where researchers went door to door offering a home insulation package, and weather stripping, and they said to the homeowner, you know,
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If you... We've looked at your home, we've done an audit, and if you insulate your home fully, you will be able to save a dollar a day every day on your heating and cooling costs.
290
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You'll be able to gain this.
291
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That was for half of the people.
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The other half, we're told, if you fail to insulate...
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you'll lose a dollar a day every day.
294
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I don't know if you can feel the difference.
295
00:30:28.927 --> 00:30:30.828
I can feel the difference in that.
296
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It was absolutely true.
297
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It was the same dollar, and they got significantly more buy-in purchases with loss language as opposed to gain language.
298
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Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't tell people what they will gain by going with you, but don't think that that's the only way you can move them.
299
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You can say, these benefits and advantages, I'd hate for you to lose them.
300
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Yeah.
301
00:31:03.161 --> 00:31:04.881
And you can do both, I would imagine.
302
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You can do both.
303
00:31:05.641 --> 00:31:08.502
Especially if you're in marketing or sales or whatever.
304
00:31:08.922 --> 00:31:11.123
These are both strategies that you can use.
305
00:31:11.163 --> 00:31:13.784
Just one is stronger than the other, but paired together...
306
00:31:14.802 --> 00:31:15.723
Probably pretty effective.
307
00:31:15.763 --> 00:31:16.503
They're effective.
308
00:31:16.543 --> 00:31:16.844
Okay.
309
00:31:17.704 --> 00:31:22.248
There's one more principle that came in later that I'd love to learn more about.
310
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It's called the, I call it the unity principle.
311
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And it's the extent to which people say yes to those individuals they see as sharing either a personal or a group identity with them.
312
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similarity of locale, similarity of religious denomination, of political parties, of shared goals and values.
313
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And if you can show people that...
314
00:32:01.617 --> 00:32:03.898
that you are one of them.
315
00:32:04.598 --> 00:32:20.325
This is the difference between just similarity in the liking principle and unity, that you are not just like them, you are one of them, you are of them.
316
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you get significantly more willingness to say yes.
317
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We say yes to those people that we feel a partnership with, that we belong together in a group.
318
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with.
319
00:32:38.076 --> 00:32:40.257
So, for example, I love this study.
320
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I'm a university professor.
321
00:32:41.918 --> 00:32:55.328
It was a study done on a university campus where researchers had a young woman stand in front of a table for the United Way, asking for donations from the United Way.
322
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And she was dressed the way a college student would, about the same age as a college student.
323
00:33:01.552 --> 00:33:02.233
So, about
324
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She had similarity going for her, and she was getting some donations from other students who walked by.
325
00:33:10.578 --> 00:33:21.524
But if she added one sentence before she asked for a donation, see, she significantly increased contributions.
326
00:33:22.005 --> 00:33:25.767
It was, I'm a student here too, like you.
327
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I'm one of you.
328
00:33:29.269 --> 00:33:32.751
And people say yes to those who are one of them.
329
00:33:32.991 --> 00:33:38.374
And it applies to all kinds of situations, even sports fandom.
330
00:33:38.694 --> 00:33:42.816
You know, we see the, look at what's happening in the World Cup now.
331
00:33:43.376 --> 00:33:50.379
So people go berserk because their team that represents who they are
332
00:33:51.540 --> 00:34:01.227
you know nationality it even works on me so um a while ago so i grew up in wisconsin where so did i did you i did yeah
333
00:34:01.946 --> 00:34:04.349
Well, I don't know if you're a Green Bay Packers fan.
334
00:34:04.429 --> 00:34:05.069
I am not.
335
00:34:05.230 --> 00:34:06.110
I'm a Bears fan.
336
00:34:06.130 --> 00:34:06.871
You're a Bears fan.
337
00:34:06.891 --> 00:34:10.195
Yeah, so you and I, there's a lot of story behind that.
338
00:34:10.375 --> 00:34:16.421
But it has to be a story, because most of us from Wisconsin are Green Bay Packers, and that includes me.
339
00:34:17.202 --> 00:34:21.707
And I saw a newspaper article a while ago that looked at...
340
00:34:22.828 --> 00:34:30.394
which celebrities were most connected to the various NFL teams, right?
341
00:34:31.635 --> 00:34:43.665
And it turned out that Justin Timberlake and Lil Wayne were both avid Green Bay Packer fans.
342
00:34:45.046 --> 00:34:51.272
And Josh, I immediately became more favorable about their music.
343
00:34:54.528 --> 00:34:55.709
They were one of us.
344
00:34:56.150 --> 00:34:57.351
They were one of us.
345
00:34:58.372 --> 00:34:59.052
Okay.
346
00:34:59.212 --> 00:35:05.738
And here's where the persuasion and influence comes in.
347
00:35:06.378 --> 00:35:08.400
I wanted them to be more successful.
348
00:35:10.141 --> 00:35:17.344
I wanted those like of me to be more successful in their music in this instance.
349
00:35:17.904 --> 00:35:21.146
So you wanted better for them because you saw yourself in them.
350
00:35:21.386 --> 00:35:22.587
I saw myself in them.
351
00:35:23.027 --> 00:35:27.029
Unlike me, who's a Bears fan, you don't really see yourself in me.
352
00:35:27.149 --> 00:35:28.209
Where in Wisconsin did you grow up?
353
00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:29.450
I grew up in Milwaukee.
354
00:35:29.670 --> 00:35:29.990
Oh, okay.
355
00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:30.890
I grew up in Kenosha.
356
00:35:31.531 --> 00:35:35.252
Actually just got back last week from a trip out there.
357
00:35:35.432 --> 00:35:36.913
First time in 10 years I've been back.
358
00:35:37.173 --> 00:35:40.876
And I was struck by how green it is the last time I was there.
359
00:35:40.936 --> 00:35:41.477
Wild, right?
360
00:35:41.497 --> 00:35:44.639
You spent enough time out here and you realized how green.
361
00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:48.922
We were in the heat wave out there, so it was like 95 degrees and 100% humidity.
362
00:35:48.942 --> 00:35:50.484
I was ready to come back.
363
00:35:50.544 --> 00:35:52.165
Yeah, I know what you mean.
364
00:35:52.225 --> 00:35:56.909
I have a sister, brother-in-law who lived there, so I go and visit from time to time.
365
00:35:57.209 --> 00:35:57.889
Very cool.
366
00:35:58.590 --> 00:36:03.474
I want to get into the ethics behind this, touch on that, because I want to move to our next topic.
367
00:36:03.534 --> 00:36:04.515
But I...
368
00:36:05.815 --> 00:36:09.100
I want to stop here real quick for a couple of reasons.
369
00:36:09.140 --> 00:36:20.757
Number one, I want to position this next part for the audience in a way that shows that influence is...
370
00:36:22.183 --> 00:36:24.884
a responsibility, not a tactic.
371
00:36:26.044 --> 00:36:27.764
And this is very important.
372
00:36:27.804 --> 00:36:35.126
This is something that I got in so many words from your book, is that it is like Spider-Man, right?
373
00:36:35.146 --> 00:36:38.026
With great power comes great responsibility.
374
00:36:38.586 --> 00:36:44.868
And if you deploy these principles correctly, you can have a lot of
375
00:36:45.933 --> 00:36:47.355
influence over people.
376
00:36:47.756 --> 00:36:51.801
But in the wrong hands, that can be a dangerous thing.
377
00:36:52.502 --> 00:36:59.852
And so, there is a set of ethics behind when, how, and, you know, what circumstances to use these in.
378
00:37:00.573 --> 00:37:02.496
Speaking on the ethics of...
379
00:37:03.357 --> 00:37:07.300
influence and persuasion, what are the red flags?
380
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:08.301
What are the warnings?
381
00:37:08.361 --> 00:37:19.630
What do you tell people to make sure that when they learn these principles that you're teaching, that they do it in a way that is good for themselves and for others?
382
00:37:19.931 --> 00:37:20.131
Yeah.
383
00:37:21.012 --> 00:37:26.896
So, the warning for the average individual
384
00:37:33.697 --> 00:37:39.882
What do you prefer in terms of how you see yourself?
385
00:37:41.063 --> 00:37:49.209
Does it require that you cheat in order to succeed, yet you deceive in order to succeed?
386
00:37:49.249 --> 00:37:50.970
What does that say about you?
387
00:37:51.290 --> 00:37:55.434
First, in terms of morality, but second, in terms of your competence.
388
00:37:55.674 --> 00:37:57.335
You can't win unless you cheat.
389
00:37:57.795 --> 00:38:01.979
No, you don't want to look in the mirror and see that person there.
390
00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:18.595
Secondly, if you feel that you have an obligation, not just to your own family, but to the human family, to increase our sense of well-being...
391
00:38:20.896 --> 00:38:28.560
then you want them to do well as well, while you are doing well, right?
392
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:35.463
So, and then the third one for the average person, I think is the long term.
393
00:38:36.204 --> 00:38:48.710
What happens when you deceive someone into a scent, they get, and now they see that what they got is not what you promised.
394
00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:51.752
They never recommend you.
395
00:38:52.492 --> 00:38:54.154
They will never come back.
396
00:38:55.135 --> 00:39:02.220
Nobody will that they talk to will ever hear about the good side of what you can offer.
397
00:39:02.621 --> 00:39:13.810
So it's a it's a for the long term deception is an unethical behavior is wrong headed for organizations.
398
00:39:13.910 --> 00:39:16.271
There's another logic as well.
399
00:39:17.052 --> 00:39:40.559
And that is, if you have, and we studied this, my own team, if you have an organization with an unethical culture, right, where people are required to cheat or deceive or exaggerate to get business, to get others to say yes to you,
400
00:39:42.543 --> 00:39:49.468
You get three very costly, to your bottom line, consequences of that.
401
00:39:49.928 --> 00:39:53.350
First of all, it's a stressor for people.
402
00:39:53.870 --> 00:39:57.993
And they, under stress, get sick more often.
403
00:39:58.373 --> 00:40:02.116
And you'll see that your insurance premiums are going to go up there.
404
00:40:02.136 --> 00:40:03.857
And they're going to take a lot of days off.
405
00:40:04.117 --> 00:40:05.078
And they're going to be sick.
406
00:40:06.338 --> 00:40:09.721
They're also not going to perform well.
407
00:40:10.587 --> 00:40:12.068
under stress.
408
00:40:12.168 --> 00:40:18.853
Their jobs are, and we saw this in our research, their performance goes down.
409
00:40:19.834 --> 00:40:22.436
Secondly, they're going to look to go someplace else.
410
00:40:23.757 --> 00:40:34.364
And the costs of turnover are enormous, especially for the best people that you have who have the opportunity to go someplace else.
411
00:40:34.384 --> 00:40:38.167
They're the ones who are most likely to get a job someplace else, right?
412
00:40:39.758 --> 00:40:45.340
The costs of replacing those people, enormous for an organization.
413
00:40:47.261 --> 00:41:07.509
And then finally, the people who do leave, your best people who are feeling unhappy, they're feeling stressed there, they, those are the people who aren't, who aren't satisfied with seeing themselves as cheaters.
414
00:41:08.129 --> 00:41:08.289
Right?
415
00:41:08.867 --> 00:41:09.188
Right.
416
00:41:09.788 --> 00:41:11.711
The people who stay are.
417
00:41:13.414 --> 00:41:14.535
And they will cheat you.
418
00:41:16.779 --> 00:41:17.339
Think about it.
419
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.302
You've selected for cheaters.
420
00:41:20.344 --> 00:41:21.105
You've pulled down.
421
00:41:23.841 --> 00:41:29.726
the viper under your coat, and they're going to cheat on expense accounts.
422
00:41:29.766 --> 00:41:33.008
They're going to take computers from the storeroom.
423
00:41:33.028 --> 00:41:38.733
They're going to have under-the-table deals with vendors or suppliers or customers.
424
00:41:41.177 --> 00:41:52.141
So what we found is those three features of a dishonest organization come back and bite you in terms of the costs.
425
00:41:53.061 --> 00:41:54.481
You attract what you tolerate.
426
00:41:55.742 --> 00:41:56.702
Good way of saying it.
427
00:41:56.982 --> 00:41:57.502
That's right.
428
00:41:58.283 --> 00:42:00.503
And you retain what you tolerate.
429
00:42:01.184 --> 00:42:02.364
Even better way of saying it.
430
00:42:02.724 --> 00:42:10.230
Yeah, and I want all of my business owners and entrepreneurs to hear this loud and clear because a culture is a fickle thing.
431
00:42:10.290 --> 00:42:18.737
If you don't put intent behind building the culture the way that you want, you're at risk of the culture developing as a result of the people you bring in.
432
00:42:19.357 --> 00:42:19.777
That's right.
433
00:42:19.797 --> 00:42:24.500
So if you don't filter those people through a culture, those people will create it.
434
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:25.000
Yeah.
435
00:42:25.220 --> 00:42:27.241
And then you're at risk to create something like this.
436
00:42:27.662 --> 00:42:30.743
The initial choices are top down.
437
00:42:31.104 --> 00:42:31.724
Yeah.
438
00:42:32.144 --> 00:42:40.769
But then the norms that get established, people look around, what are the people around me like me doing?
439
00:42:41.549 --> 00:42:43.771
That causes the...
440
00:42:44.793 --> 00:42:49.015
the infection process from the ground up.
441
00:42:49.135 --> 00:42:53.737
And what I'm gathering is influence works for good or for bad.
442
00:42:54.358 --> 00:43:08.405
So reciprocity, authority, all of these principles can be used to influence in a very poor direction just as easily as a very good direction.
443
00:43:09.212 --> 00:43:09.933
Exactly right.
444
00:43:10.654 --> 00:43:18.604
And we just have to guard against the quick hit that we think is what we need right now or what we want right now.
445
00:43:19.205 --> 00:43:22.850
It has all kinds of negative consequences down the road.
446
00:43:23.212 --> 00:43:23.352
Yeah.
447
00:43:24.653 --> 00:43:24.873
All right.
448
00:43:24.913 --> 00:43:34.017
So staying on the topic of business, and this is something that I've been curious about myself and something that you wanted to bring to the table as well.
449
00:43:34.497 --> 00:43:37.118
I want to talk about the digital age that we're in.
450
00:43:37.178 --> 00:43:45.722
We've got automation, we've got AI, we've got social media, we've got websites and just electronics and screens in front of our faces.
451
00:43:46.862 --> 00:44:00.557
I have been a big advocate and I have seen the coming generations communicate differently now, even when they're face to face because of the interactions that they've developed, let's say, behind a screen.
452
00:44:01.398 --> 00:44:06.784
And so, socially, there seems to be some sort of a shift.
453
00:44:07.765 --> 00:44:16.793
And I want to get your take on some of the research that you've seen, especially in the lane that we're talking about now.
454
00:44:17.834 --> 00:44:23.638
How does this translate to words not spoken?
455
00:44:23.659 --> 00:44:23.939
Yeah.
456
00:44:26.078 --> 00:44:28.179
So, you're exactly right.
457
00:44:28.680 --> 00:44:36.264
I think that because of advances in technology, we are increasingly separated from one another, from human connection.
458
00:44:36.904 --> 00:44:38.685
We work in front of a screen.
459
00:44:39.045 --> 00:44:43.948
We shop by pressing a button for Amazon or whatever.
460
00:44:44.688 --> 00:44:50.091
We even entertain ourselves by pressing a button instead of interacting with people.
461
00:44:51.330 --> 00:44:55.915
We see videos online, hip-hop.
462
00:44:56.315 --> 00:44:59.839
We see Netflix, whatever it is.
463
00:44:59.859 --> 00:45:11.091
We even heal ourselves by going online and seeing what these online health sites are saying about our symptoms and so on.
464
00:45:12.132 --> 00:45:28.678
That's not necessarily bad, but it is for the process of persuasion because the things we have always used to decide whether to say yes to somebody have involved human connection, right?
465
00:45:29.918 --> 00:45:33.619
Familiarity, trust.
466
00:45:33.799 --> 00:45:34.300
Handshakes.
467
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:35.080
Handshakes.
468
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:36.860
That's right.
469
00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:38.041
I mean, there's a study...
470
00:45:38.917 --> 00:45:50.672
that showed that if you make the same request of people by email versus online, excuse me, versus in person,
471
00:45:52.305 --> 00:46:00.749
you get 16 times more a cent in person than by email.
472
00:46:00.829 --> 00:46:08.333
It's the same request, but the human connection is pulled away.
473
00:46:09.113 --> 00:46:13.797
Think of how easy it is to say no to people on email.
474
00:46:14.217 --> 00:46:17.260
It's just some words on a screen.
475
00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:20.983
You don't have a real connection to that person.
476
00:46:21.063 --> 00:46:26.207
You don't have a chance to really come to feel connected to that individual.
477
00:46:26.827 --> 00:46:32.912
And so anything we can do to... We can't stop technology.
478
00:46:32.952 --> 00:46:34.353
That's ridiculous.
479
00:46:34.934 --> 00:46:35.815
That's like...
480
00:46:36.315 --> 00:46:38.338
standing in front of a bullet train.
481
00:46:38.478 --> 00:46:40.221
You know, it's coming at us.
482
00:46:40.361 --> 00:46:41.142
It's going to happen.
483
00:46:41.883 --> 00:46:43.045
But what we can do is...
484
00:46:44.590 --> 00:46:55.057
infuse human connection into our digital communication devices and routes.
485
00:46:55.097 --> 00:46:56.197
Yeah, tell me more about that.
486
00:46:56.217 --> 00:46:56.918
How do we do that?
487
00:46:56.978 --> 00:47:03.042
So we already talked about have a welcoming statement on your landing page.
488
00:47:03.062 --> 00:47:04.462
It doesn't cost anything.
489
00:47:05.343 --> 00:47:09.165
Aren't you truly welcoming people who want to come to yours?
490
00:47:09.426 --> 00:47:12.447
Wouldn't you feel welcoming to them?
491
00:47:12.748 --> 00:47:13.248
Show them.
492
00:47:20.678 --> 00:47:39.871
You can also, for example, what I have done is not only do I have a welcoming statement on my website, I have my personal signature there so that they see there's a person there.
493
00:47:41.092 --> 00:47:42.252
There's a person there.
494
00:47:44.274 --> 00:47:47.616
Here's another that shows that there's a person there.
495
00:47:48.999 --> 00:48:00.609
When I send people an email, after my signature, again, in script, not in machines font, right?
496
00:48:01.649 --> 00:48:02.690
My picture is there.
497
00:48:03.991 --> 00:48:04.992
There's a person there.
498
00:48:06.634 --> 00:48:12.018
I want them to connect to the idea that they're dealing with another person already.
499
00:48:14.103 --> 00:48:20.227
And how did I get this from reading a study that's outside of the business world?
500
00:48:20.767 --> 00:48:25.010
It's in medicine and healthcare.
501
00:48:26.111 --> 00:48:30.534
The study was done in hospitals in the Midwest where...
502
00:48:31.837 --> 00:48:59.503
the researchers sent the scans and images from certain patients to the radiologists, just as they always had, for the radiologists to look at, to evaluate, to make recommendations for further tests or further treatments for those people.
503
00:49:01.092 --> 00:49:02.093
As they always had.
504
00:49:02.794 --> 00:49:03.875
That was for half of them.
505
00:49:05.756 --> 00:49:14.284
For another half, again, randomly selected, the person's picture accompanied the scan.
506
00:49:17.067 --> 00:49:22.732
And the radiologist spent three times as much time and effort as.
507
00:49:23.502 --> 00:49:30.837
listing other treatments and tests to be done because there was a person there.
508
00:49:35.712 --> 00:49:37.513
Show people who you are.
509
00:49:38.174 --> 00:49:38.954
Signature.
510
00:49:40.736 --> 00:49:41.156
Face.
511
00:49:42.937 --> 00:49:43.738
Welcomes.
512
00:49:44.338 --> 00:49:49.942
Any opportunity that you can to remind somebody that there's a person behind the screen.
513
00:49:50.303 --> 00:49:50.443
Right?
514
00:49:50.863 --> 00:49:54.265
Automate the ordinary so you can humanize the extraordinary.
515
00:49:54.285 --> 00:49:54.606
Humanize.
516
00:49:55.006 --> 00:49:59.109
So, for example, we talked about social proof, right?
517
00:49:59.889 --> 00:50:04.052
If a lot of other people are saying great things about you and your services...
518
00:50:04.893 --> 00:50:29.977
products that's like and the way that it's typically done is you will say look or the websites will say look we have 100 five star reviews right and that has been shown to be valuable
519
00:50:31.702 --> 00:50:32.782
Here's what I would say.
520
00:50:33.963 --> 00:50:38.164
Make it 100 five-star reviewers.
521
00:50:41.205 --> 00:50:42.646
Think of the difference.
522
00:50:42.826 --> 00:50:48.468
What do you envision at 100 check marks?
523
00:50:48.568 --> 00:50:50.768
Yeah, or little text bubbles.
524
00:50:50.788 --> 00:50:58.431
Yeah, versus 100 people advocating for you, and that's your communication.
525
00:51:02.130 --> 00:51:06.273
And the same thing applies to testimonials.
526
00:51:06.353 --> 00:51:20.765
And when you say, look, we've got four expert testifiers, testimonials, it should be four expert testifiers.
527
00:51:21.285 --> 00:51:21.545
Yeah.
528
00:51:22.666 --> 00:51:28.251
Again, you envision four experts speaking in your behalf if you see that.
529
00:51:28.271 --> 00:51:28.771
Yeah.
530
00:51:29.660 --> 00:51:33.022
if an observer sees that.
531
00:51:33.783 --> 00:51:37.305
So those are the ways, I think, that are available to us.
532
00:51:40.747 --> 00:51:43.428
Humanize, humanize, humanize.
533
00:51:44.109 --> 00:52:00.677
So I study marketing and the two biggest increases in success of the last decade in marketing approaches are number one, influencer marketing, right?
534
00:52:01.157 --> 00:52:04.199
You've got some influencer that people trust.
535
00:52:04.539 --> 00:52:05.300
It's a person.
536
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:06.100
Mm-hmm.
537
00:52:06.884 --> 00:52:09.326
It's a person there.
538
00:52:11.047 --> 00:52:17.291
And the other, I wouldn't have guessed, but through this lens, it makes sense.
539
00:52:20.193 --> 00:52:24.916
Hand-made products.
540
00:52:25.076 --> 00:52:27.197
37% increase in the last 10 years.
541
00:52:28.278 --> 00:52:30.900
Because there's a person there.
542
00:52:33.107 --> 00:52:33.707
Interesting.
543
00:52:34.208 --> 00:52:37.270
And not only that, but people point to that as well.
544
00:52:38.691 --> 00:52:44.075
So anything we can do to humanize to connect.
545
00:52:45.816 --> 00:52:46.016
Yeah.
546
00:52:48.618 --> 00:52:51.140
What still scares you about influence?
547
00:52:52.520 --> 00:53:08.172
Well, it is what you mentioned earlier, that people don't recognize the difference and the benefits of being absolutely honest in the presentation, which is a simple thing to do.
548
00:53:09.674 --> 00:53:14.538
It strikes me as ethically acceptable, in fact, ethically commendable.
549
00:53:15.378 --> 00:53:20.022
If you have true, whatever the principle is, if you have true scarcity, you're not.
550
00:53:20.867 --> 00:53:21.427
point to it.
551
00:53:22.147 --> 00:53:25.228
If you have true social proof, point to it.
552
00:53:25.268 --> 00:53:27.368
If you have true authority, point to it.
553
00:53:27.968 --> 00:53:30.029
You don't have to manufacture it.
554
00:53:30.069 --> 00:53:32.029
You don't have to counterfeit it.
555
00:53:32.389 --> 00:53:36.570
Point to what you have in the situation that's already there.
556
00:53:37.190 --> 00:53:44.532
And now, not only are you going to steer people in a positive and favorable way, you're going to do so...
557
00:53:45.332 --> 00:53:53.141
by educating them into the ascent, not deceiving them in the process.
558
00:53:53.922 --> 00:54:05.295
And, you know, I think there's an extension of that, which has to do with the authority principle, where I'm afraid that people...
559
00:54:06.665 --> 00:54:19.030
aren't recognizing the distinction between being in authority, that is hierarchically powerful, and being an authority.
560
00:54:19.990 --> 00:54:27.753
You can get people to move in your direction because you're in charge of them, right?
561
00:54:28.113 --> 00:54:29.354
You can order them to do it.
562
00:54:29.374 --> 00:54:30.934
You can penalize them if they don't.
563
00:54:31.875 --> 00:54:32.515
You can do it.
564
00:54:33.899 --> 00:54:41.170
But when you're not there, they're not going to be happy doing what they're going to go around the edge.
565
00:54:41.991 --> 00:54:46.959
But if you are an authority and have informed them.
566
00:54:48.096 --> 00:54:55.079
about appropriately, about what makes the most sense to move in a particular direction.
567
00:54:55.780 --> 00:54:57.600
You don't have to be there anymore.
568
00:54:57.981 --> 00:55:04.003
You've changed their belief about what to do because an authority said so.
569
00:55:04.684 --> 00:55:11.707
Somebody who has credibility and credentials has said to do so.
570
00:55:12.067 --> 00:55:16.609
And then you get long-lasting results.
571
00:55:18.995 --> 00:55:19.435
That's great.
572
00:55:19.475 --> 00:55:29.538
And we talk a lot on the show about what it means to be a business owner and have your own, have your business stand on its own two legs without you there.
573
00:55:29.598 --> 00:55:30.858
So I think that's great.
574
00:55:31.258 --> 00:55:32.439
Last, last question.
575
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:32.759
Sure.
576
00:55:33.799 --> 00:55:37.200
What's a question that you wish more people would ask you and how would you answer that?
577
00:55:38.573 --> 00:55:50.304
I wish they would ask me, so of all the people that you've noticed in the business world who are influencing us, who do you think was the best or is the best?
578
00:55:51.465 --> 00:56:05.257
And the answer is Warren Buffett, who, as the head of Berkshire Hathaway, has shown enormous growth in the value of a share of business.
579
00:56:07.107 --> 00:56:10.268
of Berkshire Hathaway stock and his, his company.
580
00:56:11.188 --> 00:56:20.290
Uh, and he does things that are so valuable in the messaging that he sends to all of his, uh, shareholders.
581
00:56:21.110 --> 00:56:31.413
Um, he will say, uh, on the first page or two of his, um, letter to shareholders, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
582
00:56:32.468 --> 00:56:39.694
CEOs always send, you know, at the end of the year, he will mention something that went wrong that year.
583
00:56:43.597 --> 00:56:52.584
And he'll say, we did this wrong, but we learned something that this will never happen again.
584
00:56:52.624 --> 00:57:00.010
We've now changed our structure, our people, our training, whatever it is that will never happen again.
585
00:57:00.030 --> 00:57:00.110
Hmm.
586
00:57:01.635 --> 00:57:06.380
And then he talks about the strengths, all the things that went right.
587
00:57:07.701 --> 00:57:11.845
And I've been getting those letters for 25 years.
588
00:57:12.846 --> 00:57:23.517
And every time I say, wow, I really have to focus on the next thing this guy says, because he's a truth teller.
589
00:57:25.473 --> 00:57:27.794
He's an honest broker of information.
590
00:57:27.814 --> 00:57:33.498
He's willing to talk about a drawback or a weakness, right?
591
00:57:33.958 --> 00:57:35.939
And then he says, but...
592
00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:46.454
We've overcome that, but it's overwhelmed by our positive things.
593
00:57:47.155 --> 00:57:53.618
And I think that's so wise as a communicator.
594
00:57:53.938 --> 00:57:58.941
You establish your credibility so that by mentioning a weakness...
595
00:57:59.661 --> 00:58:09.203
I think your viewers should think about what's a weakness that our rivals use when they talk to our prospects.
596
00:58:09.443 --> 00:58:20.806
What's a weakness about us that we could bring up first and show how we just overwhelm that or we undercut it or it's not true anymore?
597
00:58:21.466 --> 00:58:29.228
What one weakness could you say first which establishes your credibility so they believe everything you say after that?
598
00:58:30.068 --> 00:58:33.792
because you've shown them you are a credible source of information.
599
00:58:33.992 --> 00:58:35.173
They just don't know it.
600
00:58:36.254 --> 00:58:36.694
Show them.
601
00:58:37.815 --> 00:58:38.055
Yeah.
602
00:58:39.036 --> 00:58:39.276
Wow.
603
00:58:39.397 --> 00:58:43.280
What a great way to build trust by putting your integrity on display.
604
00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:43.700
Right.
605
00:58:44.201 --> 00:58:45.181
First, early.
606
00:58:45.262 --> 00:58:46.523
Not the first thing you say.
607
00:58:46.583 --> 00:58:46.983
No, but...
608
00:58:47.003 --> 00:58:52.668
But early so that they see that you're dealing from the top of the deck.
609
00:58:53.208 --> 00:58:53.589
Amazing.
610
00:58:53.609 --> 00:58:53.909
Amazing.
611
00:58:55.175 --> 00:58:55.415
All right.
612
00:58:55.495 --> 00:58:57.076
I want to be respectful of your time.
613
00:58:57.116 --> 00:58:58.377
So we'll wrap it up here.
614
00:58:58.497 --> 00:59:00.098
Where can people find your work?
615
00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:05.142
Well, we have a company called Cialdini Institute.
616
00:59:05.162 --> 00:59:06.363
The Cialdini Institute.
617
00:59:06.683 --> 00:59:21.013
And if you go online to Cialdini.com, you'll be able to see what programs we have for teaching ethical influence, either in person or online.
618
00:59:21.393 --> 00:59:21.894
Perfect.
619
00:59:22.774 --> 00:59:23.195
Perfect.
620
00:59:24.361 --> 00:59:28.287
Dr. Robert Cialdini, thank you so much for joining me and my audience today.
621
00:59:28.367 --> 00:59:31.192
I know that they're going to get as much value out of this episode as I have.
622
00:59:31.252 --> 00:59:32.193
So thank you again.
623
00:59:32.895 --> 00:59:33.475
I enjoyed it.
624
00:59:34.177 --> 00:59:34.417
All right.