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Music.
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Welcome to a homebody podcast my name is Mary Grace and here we explore big questions in embodied ways.
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These conversations intersect the mystical the Practical and The Artful bridging a range of topics such as astrology creative practices what healing can look like and cultivating deep love and care for the more than human world.
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We not only want to live better but live more fully with more connection courage and creativity in our day-to-day lives and work and this podcast asks what are the ways we can do that.
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We hope to enliven you and inspire you towards possible regenerative Futures and we hope to encourage you so together we can become Dynamic agents of beauty fully awake Fully Alive to all that life has for us.
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We want to be here for ourselves and for one another with more grace while making room for curiosity sensitivity.
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Enjoy if you enjoyed today's episode please take a few moments to share it with someone else and thank you so much for listening.
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Music.
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And welcome and if you're listening to this on the date it releases its also the Equinox the fall equinox in the Northern Hemisphere and spring equinox in the Southern Hemisphere and so today we are diving deep into the underworld to see what tools teaching and resources it has for us not only in this season but in all seasons of life my guest today is Emily Prentiss who joins us to talk about the inevitable change that the underworld brings us and how our creative work or are created in queries can be a practice for embracing Joy, and what is and is not our responsibility as mere mortals.
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Directly or indirectly the underworld Concepts and themes show up a lot in homebody content and culture whether you are taking our signature course water medicine or you're showing up for a one-on-one session.
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And this is because transformation and healing often bring us through or alongside underworld journeys of some kind, we have some free resources below for you to check out so you can take our free water medicine quiz to learn more about which water archetype is most forward most healing for you right now, it's free and it will take you less than a minute to complete and it will also give you personalized self-care suggestions and even a burnout mini retreat when you sign up to get your results.
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We also have an expander intuition email course that it's a mini course and it's also free and I find that another common trait with the underworld is that it requires that we learn to find our way with new tools we have to stretch our most comfortable ways of knowing so when we can't see in our underworld moment then we have to see different layers listen differently and cultivate attention with more skill which is in my opinion our intuition is just attention with more skill so check out the show notes below to learn more about those free resources.
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Let's talk a little bit more about our guests today Emily Prentiss is an artist and a facilitator living in Elkins West Virginia.
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And through the center for underworld studies she organizes and edits a monthly Zine called mycelium mag, and she also facilitates art and the underworld which is a community of explorers who delve into the below through their creative practice.
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Emily is a proponent of anti hierarchy and non-linearity and she believes that every human can access the generative energy of the Underground this episode really unfurled before us personally I came into it willing to let our conversation be Andrew through and with whatever wanted to arise with us together.
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Which is a very underworld approach and as a result we get into a very spontaneous deep and fun conversation included we get into quantum physics.
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Exploring breath in the vastness of reality and even the depths without the heaviness but with the levity maybe perhaps appropriate to.
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We talked about the void we talked about you know, does the underworld always have to do with mythology or sadness or when we discuss thinking more sustainably even in millenia about our work and when we consider our impact and how that might change our approach to productivity.
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We talked about art as both a mortality practice and a practice for joy and how Community Care can make the underworld possible and.
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Like I said this conversation meanders and connects just like all of the routes and Waters and caves and mycelium underground and it's a lot of fun so if you enjoy it take a few seconds to share the episode and maybe even leave us a review on your.
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Farm, you can also check out related episodes in the show notes below right next to the other good information and free resources so that you can learn more about Emily and everything else that we talked about earlier and with that let's head down and get exploring.
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So I'm super excited to a from what we're talking about today V to have you on the podcast Emily would you mind kicking us off by just introducing yourself to our listeners is how how you would like them to know you for this conversation you know who you are today how you're showing up with us yeah absolutely I am Emily Prentiss I use she/her pronouns I am calling in from Elkins West Virginia Which specifically my house is on the ancestral land of the Masa Womack and calloc you it's people's and I am the facilitator for the center for underworld studies which is really just like.
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A nebulous ecosystem to kind of use a buzzword about all around like creativity and art practice in the way that we can use biomimicry to access the underworld within our creative practice and I am showing up today in a sort of state of Blake.
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Fluctuation so it's end of August Virgo season is here I am like, ready to like slow down like enjoy an apple cider and like pick up a pretty Leaf but I'm still in like summer like end of summer tailspin so I'm trying to like.
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Make an intention today to maybe like move at a snail like paste will move slowly through the underworld today mmm yes I'm finding that Friday's lately are really trying to take themselves off of my schedule like at they're real I can really feel them trying to like just disappear so I'm like that might have to be addressed at some point we're recording this on a Friday which is why it's that but things like this are completely lovely to do then.
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So I love the I think we're going to start maybe at the beginning because I you know for assuming that maybe not everybody has a robust understanding of the underworld let's introduce the concept of the underworld where some of its contrast with the above world what are we even talking about when we use those terms, and why is that distinction potentially helpful particularly in regards to creativity.
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Yeah okay so there are so many directions that we could go with this but I think the first thing I want to do is kind of a dress like a common misconception with the underworld which is that we're only talking about, mythology or that we're dealing with like Persephone in Hades or like the hell concept like you know an afterlife concept all of those things are important to the underworld but that's not necessarily where like the bulk of my work is coming in usually when I'm talking about the underworld I'm talking about.
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Natural structures that exist.
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Under eyes like in the ground beneath us so like soil Cycles composting mycelium networks are really up for me right now, you know cave systems things of that nature anything that has to do with what is below us is important to the work that I'm doing and I think like to contrast with like Overworld stuff the main, quite a contrast.
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In my opinion is so Under and Over are very relational to the people we are and where we're at at any given time.
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So the only difference between above and below truly is where we are sitting within that a like frame of reference and I think that's kind of where, art comes into the equation to if we're talking about what is like strictly individual what our relationship is then we need to find ways to be able to express that, as well so that's kind of like my pitch for why the underworld matters and art practice with a side step pitch that I also think it's really important.
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To think of the underworld in terms of cycles and seasonality which can help with some of our ingrained sense of like productivity culture or like ingrained capitalism as well.
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For sure do you how is how does the underworld show up for you how is it like a working not just a working concept but a working practice for you in your I don't want to say day to day because every day is so different but you know in your in your regular how you show up or in your creative practice what are some of the ways that the underworld is a.
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A common theme or a regular destination yeah okay so.
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I have two thoughts here so maybe I'm going to start with kind of like this broader idea which is that to me the underworld has a lot to do with, time so there's this kind of like these dueling Concepts when it comes to the underworld Lee we've got like cave systems and like, deep time that comes from like what is deep underground but we also have these cyclical and seasonal cycles that come through like our soil are like growth seasons are composting both of those things have to live in tandem with each other the infinite has to live in tandem with the very very temporary and that concept has been really.
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Crucial to me and the way that I try to navigate both my life and my art practice namely.
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I try to think in millenia when it comes to maybe my business practices like I want to like.
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Be thinking long-term I want to be thinking in a way that's like going to.
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Live outside of myself namely like sustainability like how can I not like make an Earthly impact that's going to like reverberate outside of my own life but also like in my value system to I really want to make sure that everything that I'm like putting out in the world has to do deeply with the values that I've connected to the underworld and that that can live.
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Within me but also like outside of my life outside of my own like timeline as well but the temporary starts to come into it with my art practice I think.
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A lot of times people tend to think of art as something that like needs to be permanent to be valuable and it's something that we've been taught a lot and it's been like cultivated through like you know art galleries and museums it's like what is going to like through the phrase stand the test of time as kind of a you know yeah it's like what is going to stand the test of time and the like nothing I think that I'm gonna like take away from that is that it doesn't have to be important you know like you know I like to make art that is temporary but like does not stand the test of time that is meant to be destroyed in some way, and it's kind of just like to fly in the face of that thought that like the only thing that matters is the thing that we still talk about because that's like you know.
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Not to get on a soapbox about the European Canada in our history but the things that tend to like stand the test of time for us are things that are like mired in white supremacy and patriarchy and like all of these hierarchies that like tend to like.
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Miss.
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The vast majority of folks and to make that the metric by which we are all using for our creative practices is like a terrible disservice to creativity.
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Totally I agree and it's like who gets to decide what's important and what gets recorded in history took the people who win the war so yeah.
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Yeah a great is some of the one of the things that came up for me when you were talking about that was like Think Like a Rock you know this is this kind of like long-term they go this way that it's just like I'm not going to see how this.
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When they Rock phase changes within my lifetime but it is changing and it has changed so much since it existed but like I'm not going to get to perceive that the rocks are just kind of like indifferent two that I think are I feel that there's an indifference there just because of this longevity in this resilience and and I mean that in like it's comforting to me.
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Something like a rock and it's interesting because I'm a Dance artist primarily I do right as well but I'm primarily a Dance artist so the nature of the things that I do is inherently ephemeral it's like oh you'd like put two years into something like crafting it with all these people and having a lot of specialness and meaning around and then you like do it for two weekends and it's gone like you have a video but it is just like not even the same thing as for documentation so I have a very.
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But as you were speaking I realize that that's a very different from a maybe more traditional like Studio artists perspective where it's like I inherently understand like how ephemeral this thing is that I'm doing which always feels very connected to mortality for me as well but that might be too much for today oh my gosh no dream are playing us yeah I went to if not today I would like to hear more about that sometime because I'm definitely like interested in our practice as like mortality practice to that's like very fascinating to me I mean we can also talk about it right now because it's not not underworld related but yeah I think I'll throw one more thing into that soup and I'm going to start around the.
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A friend of mine was talking about a friend of hers that she ran into randomly and she was asking him like how do you like not spiral about the world on a regular basis and because this is someone who she like looks who's like someone who's wise and like living away that she looks up to and wants to end he was like you know I kind of stopped at my own mortality like I need to do.
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My best and I also need to live my life and he's like you know when I look at all of these things that are happening it's.
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It's also like like maybe I'm not the one who needs to do more and but having that way where it's like stuff by my own mortality like kind of for me the way that I always frame that is like.
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Coming back to our ephemerality coming back to our mortality which is sort of a space that I live in anyways but.
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Because that's really all that we're here and that's what that is going to happen and sort of at the end what are the metrics that are going to matter at that moment because that's the only one that we're really we're not even account I think we're just accountable to ourselves for I really not like a judgement sense but like what do I think about the life that I lived and I squeezed enough juice out of it enough life out of it too to have the experiences that I wanted or I was I constantly sort of like dog paddling in this pool of like spiraling and I think, The Human Experience includes all of those things but I think the way that art so beautiful at least for me.
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Mimics that or helps alkalize those experiences is that it's always reflect for me anyways reflecting our ephemerality back to us the sense of time because dance always very directly deals with time and timing and just the aliveness of that moment it's it's a way that I hammer that out and work that out and think about it none of those are sequential thoughts but stir the pot I give it back to you okay no I feel like the underworld is a great place for like nonlinear and scatterbrain conversation that's going to shake the nature are all of it you know yeah so let's do it I so as you were speaking I was thinking a lot about clothing in particular in fashion because we are so I.
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Like brief moment of context I have a small like community that I run called Art and the underworld and we kind of do like these month-long themes that are related to.
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The underworld in various aspects of our practice so this month it happens to be fashion which has been really fascinating to watch people like, try to dress like the underworld but one of our guiding principles for that this month has been to enjoy yourself it's later than you think which is a Louis Prima song for back in the day but like it's kind of a reminder that like.
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Enjoying yourself has to be like a primary function of Being Human even in the face of all of these things that are like, like structurally and Equitable because that is like also a sense of resistance and also we like whatever you believe about what happens after we die the moment that we are in right now has a start and an end date and we can just fill it in whatever way we want to so it was kind of like you know this very like how do you think of like oh we're all gonna die where your funkiest outfit but it also like do you think we're gonna die we're all gonna die and it's been like really.
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Liberating because first off fashion is very temporary like you can wear something one day like document it not at all and the never wear that outfit in the same way again and that's just like that that still can be like an art practice but also it's just.
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Art as a practice of like.
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Enjoying yourself art is a practice like of we're going to die so just like dude do whatever you feel like, has been really up for me recently and like also feels so so tied to underworld.
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Work as well you know it seems like it should be heavy like it should be dark but actually there's like a certain lightness to knowing like you know it's, it's all going to end like let's be like joyful it's all going to end this is a tragedy and both get to you like exist simultaneously at one time you know.
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Yeah which is for me anyways like to me is just so amazing like whatever the existential truth is about how we're here I know that something in me is just like I get to help body and I'm really excited about it on a core level like I know that about myself I'm like food is so cool so one of the things the things that brought that as like art is a practice of attention.
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And it's like if we're not paying attention to our life we're missing it and.
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Get used to it which is different I think than like trying to like capture it I'm trying to think of a quote by Toni Morrison right now and it's not, sticking but I'll put it in the show notes but basically it's like talking about how when she was younger she used to try to run like capture everything and cat like we want to document it we want to write it down and like make sure I capture everything which I can relate to I used to want to like journal every day so that I could remember everything.
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And then the quote later she's like now I don't I realize like you know what I remember is enough and let that we don't have to be this like walking Archive of everything that's ever happened to us for it to be valuable like let it is more like the wave it is more like what's like what's going to rise after the storm like how different things come up from the underworld at different times and the outfit thing used to stress me out because I would be like what if I don't remember I've had a long drama with clothes and my relationship to them in my life which we won't go into here but.
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They used to stress me out and now it's like despite again the finding that freedom I think that can happen in the temporality of things.
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And for me there's something liberating about like the pressure of that it's like we want to do good work because we're here but we also want to pay attention because we're here and we want to enjoy things because we're here and while we can and like there is a plenty of suffering to go around but I.
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And I think in a lot of ways were all like used to looking for that and something that I'm coming to especially as I've noticed I'm sort of getting, what I wouldn't I'm getting older as we all are but is that suffering there's plenty of suffering on the plate and I don't have to go looking for it like, mmm yes oh man I might write that one down but feels like very very pertinent enough for me too.
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While you were talking I had this other thought which is that like I so I have read like exactly two books about quantum physics but I talk about it all the time so first off let's Prophet says it's like I'm not an expert in this by any means however Quantum physicists are not expressing what's a businessman they're like we don't know well but there's a particular Theory and quantum physics that things exist because of our observation of them so when you were saying that like oh I, get to like I get to observe things because I am here there's also that like inverse like I am here because I am observing things and like the.
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The things that we don't capture are necessary like kind of compost for the things that we do I would say it's like the things that fall away are what makes room for the things that need to grow and its place so I.
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Yeah I don't know I just like I think a lot about like the relationships between things like the way that we observe and then how we are being, observed and how bad really makes up like the fabric of our sense of reality like this is getting like to a wild place but and so like Arts like observers artist that people who are like tasked with like.
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Seeing things and then.
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Recreating them turning them out and making something new like we are all creatively the folks that are keeping.
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Reality going keeping the future going keeping things possible and it's just amazing because like we get to do those things it is such like an amazing beautiful thing as humans that we get to experience but also like.
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It's happening to us but we are happening to reality as well and I just think that's like a fascinating like, combo it's all in relationship with each other and we can't remove ourselves.
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From from the ecosystem that exists around us which is why.
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The underworld is so fascinating to me because we tend to not think about it and we are like intrinsically related to it you know we can't help but be for sure yeah, yeah it's like we're here because we're observing and also we're here perhaps because we're being observed and which brings whether we think of that as like some sort of like, Cosmic thing or it's like trees see me you know whatever the you know the scale of that is, and it continually brings me back to this though my primary role is to witness to witness my life to witness the people in my life to witness the life that is all around me and I am I do I mean I do love to do things I tend to be very active person sometimes to a fault but.
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Something I'm really trying to work with and work on myself with is that it's like if I'm doing things and I'm no longer witnessing myself doing them if I'm no longer witnessing the world around me if I'm no longer fully in that witness mode then I'm like missing the point I'm like missing my relationships I'm missing my trees I'm missing the guard like if I'm not actually in that that observation, place which I think as you pointed out is the co-creation space we do with reality primarily yeah.
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The word responsible came up for me with that too it's like I'm responsible for my tiny corner I'm real I'm responsible for noticing my tiny corner and we all are like.
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I don't want to put it on as like maybe stewarding as a better word I'm not quite sure I have the language for this yet but there is like.
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Some joint effort that has to be made for like observing and noticing the little bits of life that we are a part of and we don't have to notice all of it like we have to trust that other people are going to notice their parts as well but like, it feels like a very human desire but also responsibility to like to notice yeah.
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I'm thinking of mycelium now because thinking about like my type the way that I think of like my tiny corner is like sort of like reality being this Fabric and it's like if I what I noticed what pulls on my corner of the fabric pulls on the whole thing in some way.
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And, mycelium just thinking about like the vast network of connectivity and like are kidness to fungi specifically.
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Yeah that are tiny corner is also connected to all of the corners and all the Ripples and so to say that like yeah it's a tiny corner it's something that I'm capable of stewarding well and something I'm capable of being responsible for and it is tiny but it is also the vast thing like to not be liked not it's also not diminished because it is small I guess is what I'm trying to say.
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Oh totally yeah it's like my psyllium and noticing it like yes and to all of this and it also feels like fate work to like I think about the way that the fates like you know spend thread and then the thread is like interconnected and woven into our lives like all of this is all interconnected are like.
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Woven reality are mycelium networks that like we have either in reality or the ones that we create like through biomimicry and then also the fact that like we have.
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Some determination of like what we're going to as artist at least of what we're going to bring into the world that's like fate work on top of everything else it's like mythological on top of like, quantum physics on top of like you know ecology yeah.
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Who I've got like good Shivers I'm not I thank God for yeah I think that.
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I'm thinking to have this one of my favorite books that I've read in the past few years I think I've read it back in 2020 when I did my leg bulk reading order when going into lockdown it was under land by Rob McFarland and I loved it I was just like so obsessed with that book it's so great you should read it if you're listening to this.
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And having very quickly such I'm definitely not a caver and I'm never going to be home but how about just such a tangible sense of yeah how we don't think about the difference between those two spaces very.
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Often the tangibility of like the heaviness the age the indifference the darkness even in like Darkness not being like something that's coming to get you is just like there's less light down here because it's Underground.
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And yeah how that like felt in my body even just reading it and.
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There's something really beneficial I think about intentionally giving ourselves.
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That marks difference between like topside World below side world this is everyday life the way that I talk about it often which is what our life is not necessarily underworld life but is like our we have our land life and we have our water life and like we have these different geography is these different Landscapes that are simultaneously happening but because one tends to be busier than the other we often lose care and awareness of this other one that's that's really important to stay nourished I think what are your thoughts on that.
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Yeah well first off I would definitely argue that like underwater world is like an underworld for sure I wish I did yeah I did a study group called Art in the underwater like earlier this year and like seeing the.
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The way that like some of these systems were replicated except like in the water versus like a terrestrial world was really like, fascinating and amazing to me and it reminded me of the tarot and like the difference between like you know our emotional lives versus our physical intangible self so like that was my first thought was just to like throw that out there like I love the underwater as an underworld but.
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Yeah mainly I think that the thing.
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I've been learning from the underworld in regards to like slowness what is not seeing what is like growing behind the scenes is like.
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That.
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Nothing can grow and maintain itself both all of the time and when we ask that of ourselves or of the world around us that is.
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Rampant consumerism and capitalism and those are structures that like historically have not served the vast majority of people very well so too.
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Get involved in the Underworld to think about this world like below that is like.
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Ancient and thinking in the long-term and like not at all connected to like everything that's like pinging in our minds above like when we head underground all of this like melts away.
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To get back to the soul of just like us as humans us as animal beings in an ecosystem as contained by Earth is too, suddenly lose like this sense of purpose through productivity.
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And that is a very hard pill to swallow when we've been like completely socialize to always be like, making to always be like progressing and moving forward.
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And so the underworld has been like this wake-up call for me that like I cannot progress if I don't also rest like I cannot like, grow if I'm not also decaying and the idea of Decay as like a practice as something that we need to do is humans.
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Does not land well with many people you know it's like no one wants to like, end of thing no one wants to end a thing because we've been told that endings are failure no one wants to let something go to like shred it to reprocess it to like.
00:30:24.969 --> 00:30:41.895
Spit it out as something new again because we've been told that things must remain the same poor and constant forward upward momentum forever and no natural system works that way so so the great unlearning I've had around this is that like.
00:30:42.227 --> 00:30:49.269
Things must have an ending things like things must die and we don't want to hear that either for like ourselves or for like.
00:30:49.698 --> 00:31:06.742
Our work so like my visits to the underworld in my mind I am also like not a caver by any means I am highly claustrophobic which Steve, play but this is what I do right yeah but like when I go to the underworld in my mind it's because I need to let go of like.
00:31:07.423 --> 00:31:28.816
The capitalism that lives like within me the hierarchy that lives Within, yeah I ripped and went in like a completely different Direction with that I don't even know where I started with that but that's where were ending no I mean I think they're they are related because it brings up so many things I think too sometimes I don't want to throwing in like uncertainty or not knowing.
00:31:29.461 --> 00:31:57.307
In with that too it's like not knowing if something is supposed to end or knowing that you need to go into a process of Decay and we don't know how long that's going to take like how long am I going to be in a Decay process how long is this going to be an ending until spring comes again because, in the outer world and sort of predictable a few months of this and I'll probably sun will probably come back and they'll start to warm up around April if you're in that really where I live anyways and in the seasons of our life especially as emotional Seasons or.
00:31:57.530 --> 00:32:27.501
You know Seasons with our business or our art practice or with our desire Health stuff or grief whatever it's like, we don't know how long it's going to take and usually it's something that's never going away and something that we have to learn to like carry and move in and out of which I think, you know our underworld landscape becomes more built out more Illustrated as we go through life because we have more experiences more trips down there but some of that uncertainty in that unknowing feels like a big part of it as well.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:33.703
Yeah and I think that like there.
00:32:34.548 --> 00:32:44.272
There are many underworlds in there are many over worlds and we might be traveling through an underworld at some point while we're also an Overworld at another point and that's.
00:32:45.315 --> 00:32:54.166
That's something to consider like as well it is scary it's like its it can be.
00:32:54.721 --> 00:33:25.882
A place of like experimentation it can be like I feel like so I'm a Scorpio I have a Scorpio steli I'm and in my fourth house and I like their Comics out that dick shutting yeah like there's something about like the shedding of things that actually like brings a comfort to me but I understand like that that's like also like truly like it can be terrifying and I like I have been in a personal underworld like, recently that was like not of my choosing and also like oh my gosh please like get me out of here like immediately.
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:29.599
But I think that's kind of where.
00:33:31.090 --> 00:33:37.765
Like trust comes in a little bit I think like I don't have faith in much but I do have faith in like.
00:33:38.328 --> 00:33:43.364
The natural world around me and I have like never.
00:33:43.865 --> 00:33:58.227
Bender a winter that has not turned into a spring no matter how much like you know no matter no matter how long it's felt no matter how hard it's been I've never liked not made that complete Loop and I have to say like.
00:33:59.556 --> 00:34:05.708
And it is like this is luckily like this is also privileged but I have yet to like not make that complete.
00:34:05.921 --> 00:34:44.201
Loop and my personal like relationship with the underworld as well so I think, you know sometimes it's like it's a yes and situation as many things are it's like yes and this can be exciting and can be like you know what are we shredding to like make something new what is like decaying to like give us like space to like grow something new and also like this is terrifying how do I know this is going to end and I guess the answer is like you just have to look, that like even endings have to end you know like if we believe in the if we believe that endings are inevitable that even endings or over at some point.
00:34:44.945 --> 00:34:59.262
Totally it's like Octavia Butler's like God has changed right like the only thing that we like change is the thing and yeah there hasn't asked yet there is there has not been a night that hasn't turned into day yet so.
00:34:59.429 --> 00:35:10.811
Yeah and that makes that all make sense just something about that surrender in that trust for sure trusted life is what I call it what are some of the.
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.483
Archetypes of the underworld that you lean on.
00:35:15.797 --> 00:35:28.070
The most for those either navigation purposes or sometimes life-saving best purposes or flashlight purposes what are some of your favorite archetypes for the underworld and why.
00:35:28.777 --> 00:35:31.364
Yeah so I.
00:35:32.882 --> 00:35:45.570
Really lean heavily on mycelium that works which we've already talked about a little bit and I mainly do that as part of like my life and business practice as a way to.
00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:55.688
Remind myself of community care of like systems that are like horizontal and decentralized and I try to like.
00:35:56.675 --> 00:36:01.576
Live that out in the way that I communicate with people I try to be like very very.
00:36:03.148 --> 00:36:24.244
Abundant with math with both my like information and knowledge but also with like you know my care and energy I want to be able to like give that out to others because I know how much of that like I'm receiving back for myself as well, but on a more like tangible level this like mycelium Network as a symbol works really well for me and my art practice.
00:36:24.483 --> 00:36:39.277
Because I'm a Zine maker so the main like art that I am like, giving to people every month is this thing that like I collaborate on would like many people and then it goes out in the mail like to you and I.
00:36:39.643 --> 00:36:50.800
Like the tagline for the scene project which is indeed called mycelium magazine because like of course it is college is a network and the like that that is like.
00:36:51.626 --> 00:36:59.119
Really important to how I view art and also like how I try to navigate the world around me it's like we have to treat everything like.
00:36:59.601 --> 00:37:05.554
Network and that means like we're not personally solely responsible for.
00:37:06.235 --> 00:37:12.945
All things all things in this world like there have been times when I really needed to rely on other people because I have had to like not.
00:37:13.177 --> 00:37:21.543
Like I am needed other people to booing myself and not like web of support held me and I just hope to like give that back both like creatively and like.
00:37:21.728 --> 00:37:28.916
Energetically to the people that surround me as well so that's probably my biggest symbol that I like.
00:37:29.137 --> 00:37:36.577
Rely on over and over again and we've talked about compost and that's also like a symbol that like has become very very like.
00:37:36.862 --> 00:37:41.384
It's important to me and I think the last one that I would want to like.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:38:01.333
Bring up because it's been on my mind we like recently had a a community month about it it was recently in mycelium bag but the concept of the Void which like I have my thank you know my lovely paper void in the background of this video I I've been learning to.
00:38:02.041 --> 00:38:10.849
Examine the thoughts of like Bottomless Pits of what it means to have absence as a way to like.
00:38:12.565 --> 00:38:27.764
What it means to make absence I think is maybe what I want to say it's like I have like created this like paper void on my wall and that's a thing that has been like made and yet it's meant to like represent what black and like playing with that.
00:38:29.668 --> 00:38:35.992
You playing with that dichotomy of like full versus empty of like creation versus like.
00:38:36.429 --> 00:38:40.744
Like Decay or like void or like um.
00:38:41.101 --> 00:38:52.996
You know space that needs made yeah it's that's been really up for me recently in something that I've been playing with a lot especially in terms of time to like time and space like where are we like.
00:38:53.461 --> 00:38:57.992
Creating intentional lack like in order to like.
00:38:58.791 --> 00:39:24.945
Rest or to like create like room for what like for what needs to come next like I think a lot about the concept of wasting time and of course like if we're wasting it it's decaying and that leaves like void space it's like maybe maybe wasting time is like a wonderful wonderful thing, yeah so that's that's I'm still stewing on that I like but it's the void has been really up for me as well.
00:39:25.177 --> 00:39:34.867
For sure yeah the abyss the yeah again that unknown that uncertainty is making me think I think recently.
00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:39.646
They captured like the sound from a black hole.
00:39:39.878 --> 00:39:47.262
Yeah I haven't listened to it yet I just saw it on some headline somewhere and I was like who save for later must look into that and.
00:39:48.016 --> 00:39:55.121
Yeah but and how so much of like how we conceive the universe is just we know that it's there because.
00:39:55.523 --> 00:40:06.248
We see other things around it but the majority of what's there is like not there right it's like it's something that is not yeah and even just thinking about the lack.
00:40:06.489 --> 00:40:15.295
Of reality that were able to see is just really fascinating like we're not really able to see the no thing but like it's most of what is happening.
00:40:15.661 --> 00:40:41.114
Yes yes over the no thing yeah, The Voyage yeah another thing I love that I think that I especially have gotten really obsessed with like mycelium especially like soil and things as I've gotten more into like gardening and obsessed with just regenerative ecology and things like that and just how those practice just so us show us so much and so much of where we.
00:40:41.498 --> 00:41:05.195
Experience like the toxicity and in frustration Even in our environments around us is because we want it to go to grow twice as fast twice as big as because we want it to like output all the time is because we wanted to make more than it actually wants to which is like well we're gonna have to use poison to do that and they're going to have to use poison to fix this other problem and they're going to use poison to fix the problem and that problem cause I like what if we just let it grow the way it wants to and.
00:41:05.913 --> 00:41:24.306
Yeah but I also realized that that can be a complicated conversation especially when we look into our own lives and think about things like productivity and things because it's you know you have to have money to rest you know you have to have money in resources in order to do in order to do those things and build those Cycles into your life so it can get really.
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:28.402
Complex really fast and that in and of itself I think is an underworld.
00:41:28.733 --> 00:41:40.708
Conversation where it's pulling us into a lot of unknowns a lot of questions a lot of like darkness and non clear paths and things like that right right yeah and I want to be like abundantly clear to that Lake.
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:46.264
Rest and ability to like Decay that is not a personal.
00:41:46.954 --> 00:41:55.293
Responsibility that should be a structural like inevitability and it's just not at this point in time so like.
00:41:56.010 --> 00:42:22.407
To put the onus on the individual to to rest whenever like every system is working against like the idea of resting against the idea of like things composting or ending, yeah that would like you know we can we can all try as hard as we can to like have her personal agency but like the real like, responsibility is on the systems and unfortunately all that we can do is let's take.
00:42:23.539 --> 00:42:37.161
Be community support for others who are also impacted by the same systems that we are to remind to remind our friends to slow down to take some like you know I think that's where my psyllium kind of coming back into all of this it's like where can we like.
00:42:37.501 --> 00:42:49.090
Collectively like help each other get to this place because we have to like, just admit that these systems are not working for the collective good anymore and also that no one person can stop like.
00:42:49.304 --> 00:43:00.407
The like a capitalism train from moving so we all just need to like take care of each other the best that we can totally totally build out the fabric.
00:43:00.809 --> 00:43:19.005
Yeah I'm curious are there is there anything that you'd be willing to share sort of, an example of an underworld story or moment or experience from your life that illustrates some of these Concepts that you'd be willing to share with us.
00:43:20.056 --> 00:43:22.713
Yeah absolutely.
00:43:24.358 --> 00:43:32.418
So I'm trying to I think like there are a few ways that this.
00:43:33.135 --> 00:43:40.476
I could share in let me see I think one of the like easiest ones that like.
00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:59.596
Most folks most all folks will understand is that like whenever the pandemic hit I found that like, that was a personal Underworld for me it was a personal Underworld for almost everyone almost literally because we were all sick bastard and like our Home Spaces it's like we had to burrow down and bunker down in order to like.
00:43:59.773 --> 00:44:04.862
Stay safe which felt very under worldly but also.
00:44:05.813 --> 00:44:15.800
Two things happened during that time that really like solidified my understanding of the Underworld the first is that I.
00:44:16.418 --> 00:44:35.092
Went from having a full-time job too, not having any job except my art like side hustle business overnight I had no idea what I was going to do it but the folks whose income was not as impacted started filling my shop with orders because they had this like.
00:44:35.422 --> 00:44:49.603
Innate knowing that like we needed our to survive even in the face of this crisis and that felt so interconnected to me that like I literally like I still can almost not like talk about it without tearing up a little bit like people chose like.
00:44:50.275 --> 00:45:00.559
To save like, save the artist like within this like Mass you know catastrophe that was happening because we needed everybody to like try to like.
00:45:00.862 --> 00:45:10.309
Being Community to stay afloat during that time and that like is just such a beautiful sentiment to me and really like reminded me of that Network that exists.
00:45:10.512 --> 00:45:13.594
But I think the underworld that.
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:26.648
Most impacted me was when I actually got I got covid it was like the in 2020 I was not vaccinated and I had long term symptoms from it.
00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:29.358
And the way that.
00:45:30.704 --> 00:45:40.070
I had to navigate like extreme sickness was certainly an underworld I was not like able to participate and.
00:45:40.284 --> 00:45:46.677
The Overworld as we have like come to know it for like several months really after like I got sick.
00:45:47.135 --> 00:46:02.909
But also like it was another instance where like Community Care was able to Bowie me there is not a day that we weren't born T and that's something didn't show up on our porch you know like whether whether it was like food or like you know baskets with DVDs anything like that and I just.
00:46:05.175 --> 00:46:31.978
Yeah it was like really a thread that was tethering back to the Overworld during this like very intense situation and I think like with covid to this is like a weird little interesting tidbit but a lot of times like underworld Lee Journeys like, in the realm of like traditional witchcraft include this loss of like taste and smell which was like something I had no idea about beforehand but it's like.
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.498
Losing taste and smell from covid also like.
00:46:35.891 --> 00:46:48.938
Felt like something that was an indicator of this underworld Journey than like may exist in a more like spiritual or like witchy plane as well and it took a few months to get that sense back again.
00:46:49.637 --> 00:46:56.032
During that time it was like outside of being like in human life but still like.
00:46:56.425 --> 00:47:04.143
Learning and resting and rehabilitating and I feel like when like taste and smell came back again that was like my return to the Overworld.
00:47:04.364 --> 00:47:44.275
Coming back to life yeah coming back to life yeah, I think about that a lot in relationship to sound especially when I think about you know underwater creatures and like whales and this use of like echolocation like your language won't work here your cell phones not going to work hear your words are not going to work here like there's a different way that we get around and communicate and even thinking astrologically like Mercury is considered mute and water signs so the volume is like less or lower or it's a different and so it's if you think of like our technology and our communication but like it's very different like we you we have like what are those things called the little sonar think they just go.
00:47:44.875 --> 00:47:59.246
Like this is very different way that we communicate underwater and it's like yeah your words don't work down here your writings not going to work down here your translator your phone you do all these things and I think that's an interesting other way that I think about sound a lot the relationship that.
00:48:00.494 --> 00:48:03.585
That makes me okay is that makes me think of.
00:48:03.951 --> 00:48:12.568
Dreaming quite a bit I don't know if you have this within your dreams but I have this like recurring thread and my dream life that I am unable to like.
00:48:12.818 --> 00:48:23.461
Communicate especially via text or via phone like it's just instead of like the phone as I know it to be it's just like this jumble of things and I'm trying to like make sense of it but I'm like incapable of getting.
00:48:23.693 --> 00:48:31.806
The language out and it's just like yeah talk about an underworld it's like a subconscious like you know sort of like yeah like.
00:48:32.047 --> 00:48:35.012
Lack of communication.
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:42.204
Yeah I guess like yeah lack of lack of tethers Maybe.
00:48:42.588 --> 00:48:49.405
Yeah is is the way that I would put that lack of expression.
00:48:49.592 --> 00:49:00.010
Event so it's like when you can't like taste or smell or like communicate freely it's like what's like what remains like you know and.
00:49:00.737 --> 00:49:20.148
Yeah finding our way back to those places it's interesting I'm sure I'm sure plus we begin to read a conversation down I have no desire or need to like tie any bows around anything that we've said because I don't think that's the right costume for this conversation are for our topic today.
00:49:20.326 --> 00:49:58.570
But I think we've talked about it a little bit but why the underworld even sometimes the concept of the underworld can be something where fear comes up and sometimes the underworld is us meeting fear in some way and sometimes it's not it's just like we're afraid of something because we've never gone down and come back up like we haven't had that experience of our own resilience or whatever and why in your opinion do you feel like you know the medicine of the underworld, or the experience of the Underworld for right now is something that's important or something that we should pay attention to our really intentionally graft into our lives.
00:49:59.161 --> 00:50:06.646
Yeah I mean I I guess my quippy is to answer is because the Overworld isn't cutting it.
00:50:06.813 --> 00:50:13.639
You know like the what we were what we're doing right now is.
00:50:16.472 --> 00:50:30.835
Is not working for like systemically I think I'm back in that place again it's not working for, many people it's certainly not working for the environment or our entire ecosystem and the idea of like.
00:50:32.956 --> 00:50:43.059
Flippin hierarchy playing with the idea of like removing hierarchy that like in order for someone to have more someone has to have less like.
00:50:43.282 --> 00:50:51.117
That in and of itself like that above is always better like that feels really crucial to.
00:50:51.429 --> 00:51:12.083
All people to understand so even if it's not like coming from a place of like I am taking an underworld journey and, this is something that is going to be careful but I'm going to learn from it the very fact like when you set foot either like metaphorically or physically underground you're honoring a space that's been like traditionally like.
00:51:12.764 --> 00:51:22.463
Hierarchical a seen as less that removes so many systems that are damaging.
00:51:23.170 --> 00:51:39.800
Both personally and then collectively I think that like we need to be doing this work to get out of our own ingrained sense of hierarchy productivity and capitalism on a personal note though going on and underworld Journey especially when it's scary.
00:51:41.175 --> 00:51:50.054
Is a process of shedding which like we've talked about and is sometimes very uncomfortable but at the end of that process it tends to leave.
00:51:50.295 --> 00:52:00.110
The core valuable things with you when you re-emerge from the underworld you tend to have a stronger understanding of what is actually like.
00:52:01.286 --> 00:52:08.572
Essential important yeah essential like what you actually need in your life and I think that that's.
00:52:09.028 --> 00:52:15.512
That makes it worth it that is like traditionally made it worth it for me even whenever it's terrifying.
00:52:16.032 --> 00:52:26.378
Before we drop all your links and share with everyone where they can find you and the internet is there anything that you would like to share or say that you feel like I didn't make rooms for space for.
00:52:27.365 --> 00:52:53.889
In closing I will share that it is impossible to, go to the underworld and remain unchanged I think that is something that's like been really up for me as I've started to make the underworld sort of my business and my art practice is that anytime like I'm inviting someone to come into the underworld with me, there will be a transformation that occurs and we can think about it in terms of like we can be changed but also like.
00:52:54.355 --> 00:53:22.400
There are fairy stories that talk about people going like underground and dancing all night with fairies and eating fairy food and then when they like re-emerge again 80 years have passed in our surroundings have changed entirely so sometimes it's us personally and sometimes it's the over world that's changing around us but the thing the through thread between all of this is that we cannot go below without, being changed at the end of this process yeah Octavia Butler again God has changed I think that's like right in De.
00:53:22.820 --> 00:53:44.248
Yeah I think that's a great place that's always a great place to wrap up or sure it's a working people learn more about you work where do you like people to hang out with you on the internet and if you have anything coming up that you'd like to share with folks, let us know yeah okay so the easiest way to get in touch is to go to underworld studdys.com I.
00:53:44.570 --> 00:53:56.762
I am on Instagram at underworld studies but, I do not like older highly to that platform and I keep thinking about just leaving that so maybe underworld studdys.com and get on the newsletter would be a better place.
00:53:56.920 --> 00:54:11.597
Long-term for us to start thinking in Millennia together if you're really really into the underworld and you want to work with me in some way we have a sliding scale membership model to get into art and the underworld which is our community space on this cord where we just.
00:54:11.802 --> 00:54:17.701
Make art and talk about all of this and much more you get a free subscription to my silly and mag when you join in for that too.
00:54:18.391 --> 00:54:59.210
Cool will be sure to post all of that Below in the show notes that are will be sure to check the show notes to get access to all of that and Emily I want to thank you so much for coming on this is one of my favorite topics of my favorite things to talk about so thank you for coming out and doing that with thank you for participating in this conversation with us if you enjoyed the episode please take a few moments to subscribe to the show leave us a review and share the episode these tiny tasks help our independent podcast so much, be sure to also check out the links below to learn more about any free resources guests or things we talked about today.
00:54:59.514 --> 00:55:12.362
Our intro and outro music was created by artist Aaron pelvic and Jared Kelly our podcast logo was created by Elaine Stevenson and this show is produced by softer Sound Studio thank you for being here be well.
00:55:12.548 --> 00:55:13.407
Peace.
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Music.
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Music.
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Welcome to a homebody podcast my name is Mary Grace and here we explore big questions in embodied ways.
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These conversations intersect the mystical the Practical and The Artful bridging a range of topics such as astrology creative practices what healing can look like and cultivating deep love and care for the more than human world.
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We not only want to live better but live more fully with more connection courage and creativity in our day-to-day lives and work and this podcast asks what are the ways we can do that.
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Music.
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And welcome and if you're listening to this on the date it releases its also the Equinox the fall equinox in the Northern Hemisphere and spring equinox in the Southern Hemisphere and so today we are diving deep into the underworld to see what tools teaching and resources it has for us not only in this season but in all seasons of life my guest today is Emily Prentiss who joins us to talk about the inevitable change that the underworld brings us and how our creative work or are created in queries can be a practice for embracing Joy, and what is and is not our responsibility as mere mortals.
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Directly or indirectly the underworld Concepts and themes show up a lot in homebody content and culture whether you are taking our signature course water medicine or you're showing up for a one-on-one session.
00:02:04.558 --> 00:02:31.991
And this is because transformation and healing often bring us through or alongside underworld journeys of some kind, we have some free resources below for you to check out so you can take our free water medicine quiz to learn more about which water archetype is most forward most healing for you right now, it's free and it will take you less than a minute to complete and it will also give you personalized self-care suggestions and even a burnout mini retreat when you sign up to get your results.
00:02:32.158 --> 00:03:03.616
We also have an expander intuition email course that it's a mini course and it's also free and I find that another common trait with the underworld is that it requires that we learn to find our way with new tools we have to stretch our most comfortable ways of knowing so when we can't see in our underworld moment then we have to see different layers listen differently and cultivate attention with more skill which is in my opinion our intuition is just attention with more skill so check out the show notes below to learn more about those free resources.
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Let's talk a little bit more about our guests today Emily Prentiss is an artist and a facilitator living in Elkins West Virginia.
00:03:11.661 --> 00:03:24.743
And through the center for underworld studies she organizes and edits a monthly Zine called mycelium mag, and she also facilitates art and the underworld which is a community of explorers who delve into the below through their creative practice.
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Emily is a proponent of anti hierarchy and non-linearity and she believes that every human can access the generative energy of the Underground this episode really unfurled before us personally I came into it willing to let our conversation be Andrew through and with whatever wanted to arise with us together.
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Which is a very underworld approach and as a result we get into a very spontaneous deep and fun conversation included we get into quantum physics.
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Exploring breath in the vastness of reality and even the depths without the heaviness but with the levity maybe perhaps appropriate to.
00:04:00.497 --> 00:04:15.075
We talked about the void we talked about you know, does the underworld always have to do with mythology or sadness or when we discuss thinking more sustainably even in millenia about our work and when we consider our impact and how that might change our approach to productivity.
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We talked about art as both a mortality practice and a practice for joy and how Community Care can make the underworld possible and.
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Like I said this conversation meanders and connects just like all of the routes and Waters and caves and mycelium underground and it's a lot of fun so if you enjoy it take a few seconds to share the episode and maybe even leave us a review on your.
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Farm, you can also check out related episodes in the show notes below right next to the other good information and free resources so that you can learn more about Emily and everything else that we talked about earlier and with that let's head down and get exploring.
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So I'm super excited to a from what we're talking about today V to have you on the podcast Emily would you mind kicking us off by just introducing yourself to our listeners is how how you would like them to know you for this conversation you know who you are today how you're showing up with us yeah absolutely I am Emily Prentiss I use she/her pronouns I am calling in from Elkins West Virginia Which specifically my house is on the ancestral land of the Masa Womack and calloc you it's people's and I am the facilitator for the center for underworld studies which is really just like.
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A nebulous ecosystem to kind of use a buzzword about all around like creativity and art practice in the way that we can use biomimicry to access the underworld within our creative practice and I am showing up today in a sort of state of Blake.
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Fluctuation so it's end of August Virgo season is here I am like, ready to like slow down like enjoy an apple cider and like pick up a pretty Leaf but I'm still in like summer like end of summer tailspin so I'm trying to like.
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Make an intention today to maybe like move at a snail like paste will move slowly through the underworld today mmm yes I'm finding that Friday's lately are really trying to take themselves off of my schedule like at they're real I can really feel them trying to like just disappear so I'm like that might have to be addressed at some point we're recording this on a Friday which is why it's that but things like this are completely lovely to do then.
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So I love the I think we're going to start maybe at the beginning because I you know for assuming that maybe not everybody has a robust understanding of the underworld let's introduce the concept of the underworld where some of its contrast with the above world what are we even talking about when we use those terms, and why is that distinction potentially helpful particularly in regards to creativity.
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Yeah okay so there are so many directions that we could go with this but I think the first thing I want to do is kind of a dress like a common misconception with the underworld which is that we're only talking about, mythology or that we're dealing with like Persephone in Hades or like the hell concept like you know an afterlife concept all of those things are important to the underworld but that's not necessarily where like the bulk of my work is coming in usually when I'm talking about the underworld I'm talking about.
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Natural structures that exist.
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Under eyes like in the ground beneath us so like soil Cycles composting mycelium networks are really up for me right now, you know cave systems things of that nature anything that has to do with what is below us is important to the work that I'm doing and I think like to contrast with like Overworld stuff the main, quite a contrast.
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In my opinion is so Under and Over are very relational to the people we are and where we're at at any given time.
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So the only difference between above and below truly is where we are sitting within that a like frame of reference and I think that's kind of where, art comes into the equation to if we're talking about what is like strictly individual what our relationship is then we need to find ways to be able to express that, as well so that's kind of like my pitch for why the underworld matters and art practice with a side step pitch that I also think it's really important.
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To think of the underworld in terms of cycles and seasonality which can help with some of our ingrained sense of like productivity culture or like ingrained capitalism as well.
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For sure do you how is how does the underworld show up for you how is it like a working not just a working concept but a working practice for you in your I don't want to say day to day because every day is so different but you know in your in your regular how you show up or in your creative practice what are some of the ways that the underworld is a.
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A common theme or a regular destination yeah okay so.
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I have two thoughts here so maybe I'm going to start with kind of like this broader idea which is that to me the underworld has a lot to do with, time so there's this kind of like these dueling Concepts when it comes to the underworld Lee we've got like cave systems and like, deep time that comes from like what is deep underground but we also have these cyclical and seasonal cycles that come through like our soil are like growth seasons are composting both of those things have to live in tandem with each other the infinite has to live in tandem with the very very temporary and that concept has been really.
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Crucial to me and the way that I try to navigate both my life and my art practice namely.
00:10:05.530 --> 00:10:11.826
I try to think in millenia when it comes to maybe my business practices like I want to like.
00:10:11.985 --> 00:10:17.515
Be thinking long-term I want to be thinking in a way that's like going to.
00:10:18.106 --> 00:10:37.951
Live outside of myself namely like sustainability like how can I not like make an Earthly impact that's going to like reverberate outside of my own life but also like in my value system to I really want to make sure that everything that I'm like putting out in the world has to do deeply with the values that I've connected to the underworld and that that can live.
00:10:38.136 --> 00:10:48.403
Within me but also like outside of my life outside of my own like timeline as well but the temporary starts to come into it with my art practice I think.
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A lot of times people tend to think of art as something that like needs to be permanent to be valuable and it's something that we've been taught a lot and it's been like cultivated through like you know art galleries and museums it's like what is going to like through the phrase stand the test of time as kind of a you know yeah it's like what is going to stand the test of time and the like nothing I think that I'm gonna like take away from that is that it doesn't have to be important you know like you know I like to make art that is temporary but like does not stand the test of time that is meant to be destroyed in some way, and it's kind of just like to fly in the face of that thought that like the only thing that matters is the thing that we still talk about because that's like you know.
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Not to get on a soapbox about the European Canada in our history but the things that tend to like stand the test of time for us are things that are like mired in white supremacy and patriarchy and like all of these hierarchies that like tend to like.
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Miss.
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The vast majority of folks and to make that the metric by which we are all using for our creative practices is like a terrible disservice to creativity.
00:12:03.947 --> 00:12:13.960
Totally I agree and it's like who gets to decide what's important and what gets recorded in history took the people who win the war so yeah.
00:12:14.173 --> 00:12:25.923
Yeah a great is some of the one of the things that came up for me when you were talking about that was like Think Like a Rock you know this is this kind of like long-term they go this way that it's just like I'm not going to see how this.
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When they Rock phase changes within my lifetime but it is changing and it has changed so much since it existed but like I'm not going to get to perceive that the rocks are just kind of like indifferent two that I think are I feel that there's an indifference there just because of this longevity in this resilience and and I mean that in like it's comforting to me.
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Something like a rock and it's interesting because I'm a Dance artist primarily I do right as well but I'm primarily a Dance artist so the nature of the things that I do is inherently ephemeral it's like oh you'd like put two years into something like crafting it with all these people and having a lot of specialness and meaning around and then you like do it for two weekends and it's gone like you have a video but it is just like not even the same thing as for documentation so I have a very.
00:13:13.913 --> 00:13:53.399
But as you were speaking I realize that that's a very different from a maybe more traditional like Studio artists perspective where it's like I inherently understand like how ephemeral this thing is that I'm doing which always feels very connected to mortality for me as well but that might be too much for today oh my gosh no dream are playing us yeah I went to if not today I would like to hear more about that sometime because I'm definitely like interested in our practice as like mortality practice to that's like very fascinating to me I mean we can also talk about it right now because it's not not underworld related but yeah I think I'll throw one more thing into that soup and I'm going to start around the.
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A friend of mine was talking about a friend of hers that she ran into randomly and she was asking him like how do you like not spiral about the world on a regular basis and because this is someone who she like looks who's like someone who's wise and like living away that she looks up to and wants to end he was like you know I kind of stopped at my own mortality like I need to do.
00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:23.511
My best and I also need to live my life and he's like you know when I look at all of these things that are happening it's.
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It's also like like maybe I'm not the one who needs to do more and but having that way where it's like stuff by my own mortality like kind of for me the way that I always frame that is like.
00:14:36.499 --> 00:14:43.433
Coming back to our ephemerality coming back to our mortality which is sort of a space that I live in anyways but.
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Because that's really all that we're here and that's what that is going to happen and sort of at the end what are the metrics that are going to matter at that moment because that's the only one that we're really we're not even account I think we're just accountable to ourselves for I really not like a judgement sense but like what do I think about the life that I lived and I squeezed enough juice out of it enough life out of it too to have the experiences that I wanted or I was I constantly sort of like dog paddling in this pool of like spiraling and I think, The Human Experience includes all of those things but I think the way that art so beautiful at least for me.
00:15:18.945 --> 00:15:59.908
Mimics that or helps alkalize those experiences is that it's always reflect for me anyways reflecting our ephemerality back to us the sense of time because dance always very directly deals with time and timing and just the aliveness of that moment it's it's a way that I hammer that out and work that out and think about it none of those are sequential thoughts but stir the pot I give it back to you okay no I feel like the underworld is a great place for like nonlinear and scatterbrain conversation that's going to shake the nature are all of it you know yeah so let's do it I so as you were speaking I was thinking a lot about clothing in particular in fashion because we are so I.
00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:11.629
Like brief moment of context I have a small like community that I run called Art and the underworld and we kind of do like these month-long themes that are related to.
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The underworld in various aspects of our practice so this month it happens to be fashion which has been really fascinating to watch people like, try to dress like the underworld but one of our guiding principles for that this month has been to enjoy yourself it's later than you think which is a Louis Prima song for back in the day but like it's kind of a reminder that like.
00:16:37.580 --> 00:17:14.230
Enjoying yourself has to be like a primary function of Being Human even in the face of all of these things that are like, like structurally and Equitable because that is like also a sense of resistance and also we like whatever you believe about what happens after we die the moment that we are in right now has a start and an end date and we can just fill it in whatever way we want to so it was kind of like you know this very like how do you think of like oh we're all gonna die where your funkiest outfit but it also like do you think we're gonna die we're all gonna die and it's been like really.
00:17:14.731 --> 00:17:29.039
Liberating because first off fashion is very temporary like you can wear something one day like document it not at all and the never wear that outfit in the same way again and that's just like that that still can be like an art practice but also it's just.
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Art as a practice of like.
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Enjoying yourself art is a practice like of we're going to die so just like dude do whatever you feel like, has been really up for me recently and like also feels so so tied to underworld.
00:17:48.904 --> 00:18:06.434
Work as well you know it seems like it should be heavy like it should be dark but actually there's like a certain lightness to knowing like you know it's, it's all going to end like let's be like joyful it's all going to end this is a tragedy and both get to you like exist simultaneously at one time you know.
00:18:06.818 --> 00:18:28.842
Yeah which is for me anyways like to me is just so amazing like whatever the existential truth is about how we're here I know that something in me is just like I get to help body and I'm really excited about it on a core level like I know that about myself I'm like food is so cool so one of the things the things that brought that as like art is a practice of attention.
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And it's like if we're not paying attention to our life we're missing it and.
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Get used to it which is different I think than like trying to like capture it I'm trying to think of a quote by Toni Morrison right now and it's not, sticking but I'll put it in the show notes but basically it's like talking about how when she was younger she used to try to run like capture everything and cat like we want to document it we want to write it down and like make sure I capture everything which I can relate to I used to want to like journal every day so that I could remember everything.
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And then the quote later she's like now I don't I realize like you know what I remember is enough and let that we don't have to be this like walking Archive of everything that's ever happened to us for it to be valuable like let it is more like the wave it is more like what's like what's going to rise after the storm like how different things come up from the underworld at different times and the outfit thing used to stress me out because I would be like what if I don't remember I've had a long drama with clothes and my relationship to them in my life which we won't go into here but.
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They used to stress me out and now it's like despite again the finding that freedom I think that can happen in the temporality of things.
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And for me there's something liberating about like the pressure of that it's like we want to do good work because we're here but we also want to pay attention because we're here and we want to enjoy things because we're here and while we can and like there is a plenty of suffering to go around but I.
00:19:57.727 --> 00:20:24.854
And I think in a lot of ways were all like used to looking for that and something that I'm coming to especially as I've noticed I'm sort of getting, what I wouldn't I'm getting older as we all are but is that suffering there's plenty of suffering on the plate and I don't have to go looking for it like, mmm yes oh man I might write that one down but feels like very very pertinent enough for me too.
00:20:25.103 --> 00:21:06.903
While you were talking I had this other thought which is that like I so I have read like exactly two books about quantum physics but I talk about it all the time so first off let's Prophet says it's like I'm not an expert in this by any means however Quantum physicists are not expressing what's a businessman they're like we don't know well but there's a particular Theory and quantum physics that things exist because of our observation of them so when you were saying that like oh I, get to like I get to observe things because I am here there's also that like inverse like I am here because I am observing things and like the.
00:21:07.855 --> 00:21:22.828
The things that we don't capture are necessary like kind of compost for the things that we do I would say it's like the things that fall away are what makes room for the things that need to grow and its place so I.
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Yeah I don't know I just like I think a lot about like the relationships between things like the way that we observe and then how we are being, observed and how bad really makes up like the fabric of our sense of reality like this is getting like to a wild place but and so like Arts like observers artist that people who are like tasked with like.
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Seeing things and then.
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Recreating them turning them out and making something new like we are all creatively the folks that are keeping.
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Reality going keeping the future going keeping things possible and it's just amazing because like we get to do those things it is such like an amazing beautiful thing as humans that we get to experience but also like.
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It's happening to us but we are happening to reality as well and I just think that's like a fascinating like, combo it's all in relationship with each other and we can't remove ourselves.
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From from the ecosystem that exists around us which is why.
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The underworld is so fascinating to me because we tend to not think about it and we are like intrinsically related to it you know we can't help but be for sure yeah, yeah it's like we're here because we're observing and also we're here perhaps because we're being observed and which brings whether we think of that as like some sort of like, Cosmic thing or it's like trees see me you know whatever the you know the scale of that is, and it continually brings me back to this though my primary role is to witness to witness my life to witness the people in my life to witness the life that is all around me and I am I do I mean I do love to do things I tend to be very active person sometimes to a fault but.
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Something I'm really trying to work with and work on myself with is that it's like if I'm doing things and I'm no longer witnessing myself doing them if I'm no longer witnessing the world around me if I'm no longer fully in that witness mode then I'm like missing the point I'm like missing my relationships I'm missing my trees I'm missing the guard like if I'm not actually in that that observation, place which I think as you pointed out is the co-creation space we do with reality primarily yeah.
00:23:44.502 --> 00:23:53.868
The word responsible came up for me with that too it's like I'm responsible for my tiny corner I'm real I'm responsible for noticing my tiny corner and we all are like.
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I don't want to put it on as like maybe stewarding as a better word I'm not quite sure I have the language for this yet but there is like.
00:24:02.211 --> 00:24:22.775
Some joint effort that has to be made for like observing and noticing the little bits of life that we are a part of and we don't have to notice all of it like we have to trust that other people are going to notice their parts as well but like, it feels like a very human desire but also responsibility to like to notice yeah.
00:24:23.663 --> 00:24:40.625
I'm thinking of mycelium now because thinking about like my type the way that I think of like my tiny corner is like sort of like reality being this Fabric and it's like if I what I noticed what pulls on my corner of the fabric pulls on the whole thing in some way.
00:24:41.253 --> 00:24:51.573
And, mycelium just thinking about like the vast network of connectivity and like are kidness to fungi specifically.
00:24:52.236 --> 00:25:13.484
Yeah that are tiny corner is also connected to all of the corners and all the Ripples and so to say that like yeah it's a tiny corner it's something that I'm capable of stewarding well and something I'm capable of being responsible for and it is tiny but it is also the vast thing like to not be liked not it's also not diminished because it is small I guess is what I'm trying to say.
00:25:14.067 --> 00:25:36.125
Oh totally yeah it's like my psyllium and noticing it like yes and to all of this and it also feels like fate work to like I think about the way that the fates like you know spend thread and then the thread is like interconnected and woven into our lives like all of this is all interconnected are like.
00:25:36.329 --> 00:25:47.692
Woven reality are mycelium networks that like we have either in reality or the ones that we create like through biomimicry and then also the fact that like we have.
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Some determination of like what we're going to as artist at least of what we're going to bring into the world that's like fate work on top of everything else it's like mythological on top of like, quantum physics on top of like you know ecology yeah.
00:26:07.107 --> 00:26:14.025
Who I've got like good Shivers I'm not I thank God for yeah I think that.
00:26:15.958 --> 00:26:38.295
I'm thinking to have this one of my favorite books that I've read in the past few years I think I've read it back in 2020 when I did my leg bulk reading order when going into lockdown it was under land by Rob McFarland and I loved it I was just like so obsessed with that book it's so great you should read it if you're listening to this.
00:26:38.615 --> 00:26:50.942
And having very quickly such I'm definitely not a caver and I'm never going to be home but how about just such a tangible sense of yeah how we don't think about the difference between those two spaces very.
00:26:51.237 --> 00:27:04.644
Often the tangibility of like the heaviness the age the indifference the darkness even in like Darkness not being like something that's coming to get you is just like there's less light down here because it's Underground.
00:27:05.083 --> 00:27:11.683
And yeah how that like felt in my body even just reading it and.
00:27:12.473 --> 00:27:16.717
There's something really beneficial I think about intentionally giving ourselves.
00:27:16.866 --> 00:27:46.019
That marks difference between like topside World below side world this is everyday life the way that I talk about it often which is what our life is not necessarily underworld life but is like our we have our land life and we have our water life and like we have these different geography is these different Landscapes that are simultaneously happening but because one tends to be busier than the other we often lose care and awareness of this other one that's that's really important to stay nourished I think what are your thoughts on that.
00:27:46.906 --> 00:28:02.789
Yeah well first off I would definitely argue that like underwater world is like an underworld for sure I wish I did yeah I did a study group called Art in the underwater like earlier this year and like seeing the.
00:28:03.787 --> 00:28:24.594
The way that like some of these systems were replicated except like in the water versus like a terrestrial world was really like, fascinating and amazing to me and it reminded me of the tarot and like the difference between like you know our emotional lives versus our physical intangible self so like that was my first thought was just to like throw that out there like I love the underwater as an underworld but.
00:28:24.887 --> 00:28:28.365
Yeah mainly I think that the thing.
00:28:29.380 --> 00:28:38.357
I've been learning from the underworld in regards to like slowness what is not seeing what is like growing behind the scenes is like.
00:28:39.894 --> 00:28:40.942
That.
00:28:42.460 --> 00:28:53.733
Nothing can grow and maintain itself both all of the time and when we ask that of ourselves or of the world around us that is.
00:28:54.082 --> 00:29:03.897
Rampant consumerism and capitalism and those are structures that like historically have not served the vast majority of people very well so too.
00:29:04.048 --> 00:29:09.596
Get involved in the Underworld to think about this world like below that is like.
00:29:10.439 --> 00:29:23.540
Ancient and thinking in the long-term and like not at all connected to like everything that's like pinging in our minds above like when we head underground all of this like melts away.
00:29:24.384 --> 00:29:40.105
To get back to the soul of just like us as humans us as animal beings in an ecosystem as contained by Earth is too, suddenly lose like this sense of purpose through productivity.
00:29:40.363 --> 00:29:53.401
And that is a very hard pill to swallow when we've been like completely socialize to always be like, making to always be like progressing and moving forward.
00:29:53.676 --> 00:30:10.335
And so the underworld has been like this wake-up call for me that like I cannot progress if I don't also rest like I cannot like, grow if I'm not also decaying and the idea of Decay as like a practice as something that we need to do is humans.
00:30:10.881 --> 00:30:24.738
Does not land well with many people you know it's like no one wants to like, end of thing no one wants to end a thing because we've been told that endings are failure no one wants to let something go to like shred it to reprocess it to like.
00:30:24.969 --> 00:30:41.895
Spit it out as something new again because we've been told that things must remain the same poor and constant forward upward momentum forever and no natural system works that way so so the great unlearning I've had around this is that like.
00:30:42.227 --> 00:30:49.269
Things must have an ending things like things must die and we don't want to hear that either for like ourselves or for like.
00:30:49.698 --> 00:31:06.742
Our work so like my visits to the underworld in my mind I am also like not a caver by any means I am highly claustrophobic which Steve, play but this is what I do right yeah but like when I go to the underworld in my mind it's because I need to let go of like.
00:31:07.423 --> 00:31:28.816
The capitalism that lives like within me the hierarchy that lives Within, yeah I ripped and went in like a completely different Direction with that I don't even know where I started with that but that's where were ending no I mean I think they're they are related because it brings up so many things I think too sometimes I don't want to throwing in like uncertainty or not knowing.
00:31:29.461 --> 00:31:57.307
In with that too it's like not knowing if something is supposed to end or knowing that you need to go into a process of Decay and we don't know how long that's going to take like how long am I going to be in a Decay process how long is this going to be an ending until spring comes again because, in the outer world and sort of predictable a few months of this and I'll probably sun will probably come back and they'll start to warm up around April if you're in that really where I live anyways and in the seasons of our life especially as emotional Seasons or.
00:31:57.530 --> 00:32:27.501
You know Seasons with our business or our art practice or with our desire Health stuff or grief whatever it's like, we don't know how long it's going to take and usually it's something that's never going away and something that we have to learn to like carry and move in and out of which I think, you know our underworld landscape becomes more built out more Illustrated as we go through life because we have more experiences more trips down there but some of that uncertainty in that unknowing feels like a big part of it as well.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:33.703
Yeah and I think that like there.
00:32:34.548 --> 00:32:44.272
There are many underworlds in there are many over worlds and we might be traveling through an underworld at some point while we're also an Overworld at another point and that's.
00:32:45.315 --> 00:32:54.166
That's something to consider like as well it is scary it's like its it can be.
00:32:54.721 --> 00:33:25.882
A place of like experimentation it can be like I feel like so I'm a Scorpio I have a Scorpio steli I'm and in my fourth house and I like their Comics out that dick shutting yeah like there's something about like the shedding of things that actually like brings a comfort to me but I understand like that that's like also like truly like it can be terrifying and I like I have been in a personal underworld like, recently that was like not of my choosing and also like oh my gosh please like get me out of here like immediately.
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:29.599
But I think that's kind of where.
00:33:31.090 --> 00:33:37.765
Like trust comes in a little bit I think like I don't have faith in much but I do have faith in like.
00:33:38.328 --> 00:33:43.364
The natural world around me and I have like never.
00:33:43.865 --> 00:33:58.227
Bender a winter that has not turned into a spring no matter how much like you know no matter no matter how long it's felt no matter how hard it's been I've never liked not made that complete Loop and I have to say like.
00:33:59.556 --> 00:34:05.708
And it is like this is luckily like this is also privileged but I have yet to like not make that complete.
00:34:05.921 --> 00:34:44.201
Loop and my personal like relationship with the underworld as well so I think, you know sometimes it's like it's a yes and situation as many things are it's like yes and this can be exciting and can be like you know what are we shredding to like make something new what is like decaying to like give us like space to like grow something new and also like this is terrifying how do I know this is going to end and I guess the answer is like you just have to look, that like even endings have to end you know like if we believe in the if we believe that endings are inevitable that even endings or over at some point.
00:34:44.945 --> 00:34:59.262
Totally it's like Octavia Butler's like God has changed right like the only thing that we like change is the thing and yeah there hasn't asked yet there is there has not been a night that hasn't turned into day yet so.
00:34:59.429 --> 00:35:10.811
Yeah and that makes that all make sense just something about that surrender in that trust for sure trusted life is what I call it what are some of the.
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.483
Archetypes of the underworld that you lean on.
00:35:15.797 --> 00:35:28.070
The most for those either navigation purposes or sometimes life-saving best purposes or flashlight purposes what are some of your favorite archetypes for the underworld and why.
00:35:28.777 --> 00:35:31.364
Yeah so I.
00:35:32.882 --> 00:35:45.570
Really lean heavily on mycelium that works which we've already talked about a little bit and I mainly do that as part of like my life and business practice as a way to.
00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:55.688
Remind myself of community care of like systems that are like horizontal and decentralized and I try to like.
00:35:56.675 --> 00:36:01.576
Live that out in the way that I communicate with people I try to be like very very.
00:36:03.148 --> 00:36:24.244
Abundant with math with both my like information and knowledge but also with like you know my care and energy I want to be able to like give that out to others because I know how much of that like I'm receiving back for myself as well, but on a more like tangible level this like mycelium Network as a symbol works really well for me and my art practice.
00:36:24.483 --> 00:36:39.277
Because I'm a Zine maker so the main like art that I am like, giving to people every month is this thing that like I collaborate on would like many people and then it goes out in the mail like to you and I.
00:36:39.643 --> 00:36:50.800
Like the tagline for the scene project which is indeed called mycelium magazine because like of course it is college is a network and the like that that is like.
00:36:51.626 --> 00:36:59.119
Really important to how I view art and also like how I try to navigate the world around me it's like we have to treat everything like.
00:36:59.601 --> 00:37:05.554
Network and that means like we're not personally solely responsible for.
00:37:06.235 --> 00:37:12.945
All things all things in this world like there have been times when I really needed to rely on other people because I have had to like not.
00:37:13.177 --> 00:37:21.543
Like I am needed other people to booing myself and not like web of support held me and I just hope to like give that back both like creatively and like.
00:37:21.728 --> 00:37:28.916
Energetically to the people that surround me as well so that's probably my biggest symbol that I like.
00:37:29.137 --> 00:37:36.577
Rely on over and over again and we've talked about compost and that's also like a symbol that like has become very very like.
00:37:36.862 --> 00:37:41.384
It's important to me and I think the last one that I would want to like.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:38:01.333
Bring up because it's been on my mind we like recently had a a community month about it it was recently in mycelium bag but the concept of the Void which like I have my thank you know my lovely paper void in the background of this video I I've been learning to.
00:38:02.041 --> 00:38:10.849
Examine the thoughts of like Bottomless Pits of what it means to have absence as a way to like.
00:38:12.565 --> 00:38:27.764
What it means to make absence I think is maybe what I want to say it's like I have like created this like paper void on my wall and that's a thing that has been like made and yet it's meant to like represent what black and like playing with that.
00:38:29.668 --> 00:38:35.992
You playing with that dichotomy of like full versus empty of like creation versus like.
00:38:36.429 --> 00:38:40.744
Like Decay or like void or like um.
00:38:41.101 --> 00:38:52.996
You know space that needs made yeah it's that's been really up for me recently in something that I've been playing with a lot especially in terms of time to like time and space like where are we like.
00:38:53.461 --> 00:38:57.992
Creating intentional lack like in order to like.
00:38:58.791 --> 00:39:24.945
Rest or to like create like room for what like for what needs to come next like I think a lot about the concept of wasting time and of course like if we're wasting it it's decaying and that leaves like void space it's like maybe maybe wasting time is like a wonderful wonderful thing, yeah so that's that's I'm still stewing on that I like but it's the void has been really up for me as well.
00:39:25.177 --> 00:39:34.867
For sure yeah the abyss the yeah again that unknown that uncertainty is making me think I think recently.
00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:39.646
They captured like the sound from a black hole.
00:39:39.878 --> 00:39:47.262
Yeah I haven't listened to it yet I just saw it on some headline somewhere and I was like who save for later must look into that and.
00:39:48.016 --> 00:39:55.121
Yeah but and how so much of like how we conceive the universe is just we know that it's there because.
00:39:55.523 --> 00:40:06.248
We see other things around it but the majority of what's there is like not there right it's like it's something that is not yeah and even just thinking about the lack.
00:40:06.489 --> 00:40:15.295
Of reality that were able to see is just really fascinating like we're not really able to see the no thing but like it's most of what is happening.
00:40:15.661 --> 00:40:41.114
Yes yes over the no thing yeah, The Voyage yeah another thing I love that I think that I especially have gotten really obsessed with like mycelium especially like soil and things as I've gotten more into like gardening and obsessed with just regenerative ecology and things like that and just how those practice just so us show us so much and so much of where we.
00:40:41.498 --> 00:41:05.195
Experience like the toxicity and in frustration Even in our environments around us is because we want it to go to grow twice as fast twice as big as because we want it to like output all the time is because we wanted to make more than it actually wants to which is like well we're gonna have to use poison to do that and they're going to have to use poison to fix this other problem and they're going to use poison to fix the problem and that problem cause I like what if we just let it grow the way it wants to and.
00:41:05.913 --> 00:41:24.306
Yeah but I also realized that that can be a complicated conversation especially when we look into our own lives and think about things like productivity and things because it's you know you have to have money to rest you know you have to have money in resources in order to do in order to do those things and build those Cycles into your life so it can get really.
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:28.402
Complex really fast and that in and of itself I think is an underworld.
00:41:28.733 --> 00:41:40.708
Conversation where it's pulling us into a lot of unknowns a lot of questions a lot of like darkness and non clear paths and things like that right right yeah and I want to be like abundantly clear to that Lake.
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:46.264
Rest and ability to like Decay that is not a personal.
00:41:46.954 --> 00:41:55.293
Responsibility that should be a structural like inevitability and it's just not at this point in time so like.
00:41:56.010 --> 00:42:22.407
To put the onus on the individual to to rest whenever like every system is working against like the idea of resting against the idea of like things composting or ending, yeah that would like you know we can we can all try as hard as we can to like have her personal agency but like the real like, responsibility is on the systems and unfortunately all that we can do is let's take.
00:42:23.539 --> 00:42:37.161
Be community support for others who are also impacted by the same systems that we are to remind to remind our friends to slow down to take some like you know I think that's where my psyllium kind of coming back into all of this it's like where can we like.
00:42:37.501 --> 00:42:49.090
Collectively like help each other get to this place because we have to like, just admit that these systems are not working for the collective good anymore and also that no one person can stop like.
00:42:49.304 --> 00:43:00.407
The like a capitalism train from moving so we all just need to like take care of each other the best that we can totally totally build out the fabric.
00:43:00.809 --> 00:43:19.005
Yeah I'm curious are there is there anything that you'd be willing to share sort of, an example of an underworld story or moment or experience from your life that illustrates some of these Concepts that you'd be willing to share with us.
00:43:20.056 --> 00:43:22.713
Yeah absolutely.
00:43:24.358 --> 00:43:32.418
So I'm trying to I think like there are a few ways that this.
00:43:33.135 --> 00:43:40.476
I could share in let me see I think one of the like easiest ones that like.
00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:59.596
Most folks most all folks will understand is that like whenever the pandemic hit I found that like, that was a personal Underworld for me it was a personal Underworld for almost everyone almost literally because we were all sick bastard and like our Home Spaces it's like we had to burrow down and bunker down in order to like.
00:43:59.773 --> 00:44:04.862
Stay safe which felt very under worldly but also.
00:44:05.813 --> 00:44:15.800
Two things happened during that time that really like solidified my understanding of the Underworld the first is that I.
00:44:16.418 --> 00:44:35.092
Went from having a full-time job too, not having any job except my art like side hustle business overnight I had no idea what I was going to do it but the folks whose income was not as impacted started filling my shop with orders because they had this like.
00:44:35.422 --> 00:44:49.603
Innate knowing that like we needed our to survive even in the face of this crisis and that felt so interconnected to me that like I literally like I still can almost not like talk about it without tearing up a little bit like people chose like.
00:44:50.275 --> 00:45:00.559
To save like, save the artist like within this like Mass you know catastrophe that was happening because we needed everybody to like try to like.
00:45:00.862 --> 00:45:10.309
Being Community to stay afloat during that time and that like is just such a beautiful sentiment to me and really like reminded me of that Network that exists.
00:45:10.512 --> 00:45:13.594
But I think the underworld that.
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:26.648
Most impacted me was when I actually got I got covid it was like the in 2020 I was not vaccinated and I had long term symptoms from it.
00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:29.358
And the way that.
00:45:30.704 --> 00:45:40.070
I had to navigate like extreme sickness was certainly an underworld I was not like able to participate and.
00:45:40.284 --> 00:45:46.677
The Overworld as we have like come to know it for like several months really after like I got sick.
00:45:47.135 --> 00:46:02.909
But also like it was another instance where like Community Care was able to Bowie me there is not a day that we weren't born T and that's something didn't show up on our porch you know like whether whether it was like food or like you know baskets with DVDs anything like that and I just.
00:46:05.175 --> 00:46:31.978
Yeah it was like really a thread that was tethering back to the Overworld during this like very intense situation and I think like with covid to this is like a weird little interesting tidbit but a lot of times like underworld Lee Journeys like, in the realm of like traditional witchcraft include this loss of like taste and smell which was like something I had no idea about beforehand but it's like.
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.498
Losing taste and smell from covid also like.
00:46:35.891 --> 00:46:48.938
Felt like something that was an indicator of this underworld Journey than like may exist in a more like spiritual or like witchy plane as well and it took a few months to get that sense back again.
00:46:49.637 --> 00:46:56.032
During that time it was like outside of being like in human life but still like.
00:46:56.425 --> 00:47:04.143
Learning and resting and rehabilitating and I feel like when like taste and smell came back again that was like my return to the Overworld.
00:47:04.364 --> 00:47:44.275
Coming back to life yeah coming back to life yeah, I think about that a lot in relationship to sound especially when I think about you know underwater creatures and like whales and this use of like echolocation like your language won't work here your cell phones not going to work hear your words are not going to work here like there's a different way that we get around and communicate and even thinking astrologically like Mercury is considered mute and water signs so the volume is like less or lower or it's a different and so it's if you think of like our technology and our communication but like it's very different like we you we have like what are those things called the little sonar think they just go.
00:47:44.875 --> 00:47:59.246
Like this is very different way that we communicate underwater and it's like yeah your words don't work down here your writings not going to work down here your translator your phone you do all these things and I think that's an interesting other way that I think about sound a lot the relationship that.
00:48:00.494 --> 00:48:03.585
That makes me okay is that makes me think of.
00:48:03.951 --> 00:48:12.568
Dreaming quite a bit I don't know if you have this within your dreams but I have this like recurring thread and my dream life that I am unable to like.
00:48:12.818 --> 00:48:23.461
Communicate especially via text or via phone like it's just instead of like the phone as I know it to be it's just like this jumble of things and I'm trying to like make sense of it but I'm like incapable of getting.
00:48:23.693 --> 00:48:31.806
The language out and it's just like yeah talk about an underworld it's like a subconscious like you know sort of like yeah like.
00:48:32.047 --> 00:48:35.012
Lack of communication.
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:42.204
Yeah I guess like yeah lack of lack of tethers Maybe.
00:48:42.588 --> 00:48:49.405
Yeah is is the way that I would put that lack of expression.
00:48:49.592 --> 00:49:00.010
Event so it's like when you can't like taste or smell or like communicate freely it's like what's like what remains like you know and.
00:49:00.737 --> 00:49:20.148
Yeah finding our way back to those places it's interesting I'm sure I'm sure plus we begin to read a conversation down I have no desire or need to like tie any bows around anything that we've said because I don't think that's the right costume for this conversation are for our topic today.
00:49:20.326 --> 00:49:58.570
But I think we've talked about it a little bit but why the underworld even sometimes the concept of the underworld can be something where fear comes up and sometimes the underworld is us meeting fear in some way and sometimes it's not it's just like we're afraid of something because we've never gone down and come back up like we haven't had that experience of our own resilience or whatever and why in your opinion do you feel like you know the medicine of the underworld, or the experience of the Underworld for right now is something that's important or something that we should pay attention to our really intentionally graft into our lives.
00:49:59.161 --> 00:50:06.646
Yeah I mean I I guess my quippy is to answer is because the Overworld isn't cutting it.
00:50:06.813 --> 00:50:13.639
You know like the what we were what we're doing right now is.
00:50:16.472 --> 00:50:30.835
Is not working for like systemically I think I'm back in that place again it's not working for, many people it's certainly not working for the environment or our entire ecosystem and the idea of like.
00:50:32.956 --> 00:50:43.059
Flippin hierarchy playing with the idea of like removing hierarchy that like in order for someone to have more someone has to have less like.
00:50:43.282 --> 00:50:51.117
That in and of itself like that above is always better like that feels really crucial to.
00:50:51.429 --> 00:51:12.083
All people to understand so even if it's not like coming from a place of like I am taking an underworld journey and, this is something that is going to be careful but I'm going to learn from it the very fact like when you set foot either like metaphorically or physically underground you're honoring a space that's been like traditionally like.
00:51:12.764 --> 00:51:22.463
Hierarchical a seen as less that removes so many systems that are damaging.
00:51:23.170 --> 00:51:39.800
Both personally and then collectively I think that like we need to be doing this work to get out of our own ingrained sense of hierarchy productivity and capitalism on a personal note though going on and underworld Journey especially when it's scary.
00:51:41.175 --> 00:51:50.054
Is a process of shedding which like we've talked about and is sometimes very uncomfortable but at the end of that process it tends to leave.
00:51:50.295 --> 00:52:00.110
The core valuable things with you when you re-emerge from the underworld you tend to have a stronger understanding of what is actually like.
00:52:01.286 --> 00:52:08.572
Essential important yeah essential like what you actually need in your life and I think that that's.
00:52:09.028 --> 00:52:15.512
That makes it worth it that is like traditionally made it worth it for me even whenever it's terrifying.
00:52:16.032 --> 00:52:26.378
Before we drop all your links and share with everyone where they can find you and the internet is there anything that you would like to share or say that you feel like I didn't make rooms for space for.
00:52:27.365 --> 00:52:53.889
In closing I will share that it is impossible to, go to the underworld and remain unchanged I think that is something that's like been really up for me as I've started to make the underworld sort of my business and my art practice is that anytime like I'm inviting someone to come into the underworld with me, there will be a transformation that occurs and we can think about it in terms of like we can be changed but also like.
00:52:54.355 --> 00:53:22.400
There are fairy stories that talk about people going like underground and dancing all night with fairies and eating fairy food and then when they like re-emerge again 80 years have passed in our surroundings have changed entirely so sometimes it's us personally and sometimes it's the over world that's changing around us but the thing the through thread between all of this is that we cannot go below without, being changed at the end of this process yeah Octavia Butler again God has changed I think that's like right in De.
00:53:22.820 --> 00:53:44.248
Yeah I think that's a great place that's always a great place to wrap up or sure it's a working people learn more about you work where do you like people to hang out with you on the internet and if you have anything coming up that you'd like to share with folks, let us know yeah okay so the easiest way to get in touch is to go to underworld studdys.com I.
00:53:44.570 --> 00:53:56.762
I am on Instagram at underworld studies but, I do not like older highly to that platform and I keep thinking about just leaving that so maybe underworld studdys.com and get on the newsletter would be a better place.
00:53:56.920 --> 00:54:11.597
Long-term for us to start thinking in Millennia together if you're really really into the underworld and you want to work with me in some way we have a sliding scale membership model to get into art and the underworld which is our community space on this cord where we just.
00:54:11.802 --> 00:54:17.701
Make art and talk about all of this and much more you get a free subscription to my silly and mag when you join in for that too.
00:54:18.391 --> 00:54:59.210
Cool will be sure to post all of that Below in the show notes that are will be sure to check the show notes to get access to all of that and Emily I want to thank you so much for coming on this is one of my favorite topics of my favorite things to talk about so thank you for coming out and doing that with thank you for participating in this conversation with us if you enjoyed the episode please take a few moments to subscribe to the show leave us a review and share the episode these tiny tasks help our independent podcast so much, be sure to also check out the links below to learn more about any free resources guests or things we talked about today.
00:54:59.514 --> 00:55:12.362
Our intro and outro music was created by artist Aaron pelvic and Jared Kelly our podcast logo was created by Elaine Stevenson and this show is produced by softer Sound Studio thank you for being here be well.
00:55:12.548 --> 00:55:13.407
Peace.
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:24.143
Music.
