WEBVTT
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Welcome everyone to this edition of Enabling
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Digital with Systems Plus, a podcast series.
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Today we are joined by Ravi Shankwaram, a visionary
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thought leader specializing in business architecture
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and the strategic evolution of business models
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through intelligent technology integrations.
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With extensive experience spanning CPG, B2B and
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B2C markets, he brings deep expertise in AI and
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advanced analytics, next -gen infrastructure,
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and enterprise applications as a dedicated innovator
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ravi continuously experiments with technology
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and business transformation to uncover emerging
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opportunities and enable revolutionary approaches
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to organizational effectiveness ravi it's great
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to have you here today pleasure to be here welcome
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welcome so ravi let's jump right in Speaking
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of evolution of business models, from your perspective,
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Ravi, when does it make sense for an organization
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to consider insourcing technology or digital
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capabilities globally, particularly in regions
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like India, rather than relying on partners or
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third parties? Yeah, the approach I took was
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to take a look at our competencies. What are
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we good at? both from a region perspective and
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a headquarters perspective. And the idea was
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we wanted to do things well. So in areas we had
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the experience, we got our own teams to grow
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and expand. But in areas where we wanted to build
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the expertise at a global scale, we actually
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approached this insourcing model. And we approached
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it as early as 2014. And that's where we took
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a look at it from a few perspectives. One is,
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what is our capability maturity that we wanted
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to have in two, three years' time? What is the
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investment we wanted to make? And more importantly,
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what is the talent we wanted to build? And as
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we all know, it takes a little bit of time to
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incubate talent. And that's where we saw a great
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partnership with Systems Plus to build that.
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So then at New Balance, and even for that matter,
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other organizations that you've worked with,
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You seem to indicate it was a combination of
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things. It was a combination of speed, cost,
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control, innovation. All of these things played
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a role in the decision -making process. Is that
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a fair statement? I think you hit on all the
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key points there. One is, again, being an experimenter
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at heart is not just about technology. It's also
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about capability. So what we did was we definitely
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wanted speed and speed was only going to increase
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over a period of time. And we all know that to
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build talent and then to achieve some critical
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speed, it takes a bit of time. And innovation
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is closely tied to it because you want the right
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talent there. And of course, cost. And control
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is, we had a tagline after the pandemic, control
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your destiny. So this played right into that
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for us to keep building our expertise. Interesting.
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You mentioned you thought about this, you went
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down this journey starting in 2014. Obviously,
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that means you must have thought about it earlier.
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Most companies were not thinking this way. So
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what sort of triggered it? within your organization
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to start thinking in this direction? So in our
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case, we had built our own sort of talent expertise
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in certain competencies out of our India office
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with an eye towards supporting the globe and
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various time zones. we actually had some lessons
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learned from that. We also knew what we couldn't
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do by ourselves. So that's where we looked for
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a partner, and Systems Plus was a great partner
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in sort of helping us sort of incubate that idea,
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that approach, with the areas that we wanted
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to build the expertise on. And so... That's where
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we started, you know, with a small footprint.
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And then we, as we learned more about the model,
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the model is also... It's extremely important
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to remember that you have to make a commitment
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and you have to make sure, just like you're making
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a commitment to your staff, right? Your own in
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-house staff. This is no different than that.
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And then once you do that, you start seeing the
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results and then you also build on experience.
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So one competency, once you've got that under
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your belt, it becomes easier to go to the next
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set of competencies. No, fantastic. And you're
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right. It is a commitment. And I think those
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who miss that point usually end up in disaster.
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And we've seen that happen multiple times. Yeah,
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if you just approached it purely from a cost
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model, this is not a good... In any relationship,
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if you just approached it purely from a cost
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model, that is not sustainable for the long run.
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I think you have to approach it with not just
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the cost. It is how are you building your capability?
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How are you building speed? And then as you're
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doing that, you know, you're also having a strategic
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control over your, you know, your human capital
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and IP. Right. So what's your, I'm going to sort
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of ask you sort of a two part question. I mean,
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today, India continues to be a go -to location
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for scaling internal tech teams, thanks to a
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compelling mix of cost efficiency and deep technical
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talent. But back then, what made you choose India?
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I mean, a lot of people are talking about Latin
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America, a lot of people are talking about Eastern
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Europe, etc. People still do, but what made you
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choose India? One important thing was we... We
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already had a practice, our own practice there,
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New Balance IT. So that helped us. But even if
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we did not have that, the reason we picked India
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was the time zone. We had teams that had to support,
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and even with the relationship with Systems Plus,
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we had teams that supported, that had eyes on
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the glass for... Australia, New Zealand, and
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Japan, China, and all of that. And then even
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for Europe, that became easy. Now, it's at times
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a challenge for organization in North America
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from a time zone perspective. But again, if you
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use the model intelligently in terms of the time
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zones that benefit you, I think India is a very,
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very good answer. That was one part. The second
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part is the level of talent that you have there.
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You know, the level of talent, the ecosystem
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with partners like Systems Plus, that really,
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I mean, They had the experience of working with
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companies in the US and across the globe. So
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it became a complimenting thing for us to even
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learn from them on many aspects like hiring,
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retention, you know, what are the best practices
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and all of that. So that's where I... We found
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that India was was a good model and we kind of
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used that model in other places as well So I
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guess what works for you in aligning those distributed
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global teams Not only you know, as you've mentioned
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you had you're supporting the Pacific you're
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supporting Europe North America, of course, right
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But how were you able to sort of align the core
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goals of the enterprise and sort of how do you
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ensure? that the teams actually move at the same
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pace and remain tightly connected to the business
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priorities and just then start doing things on
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their own or sort of go start going in different
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directions so one thing was uh you know we there
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was a need for us to provide more support in
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so we were providing support on erp and analytics
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and every now and then we needed help Not only
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there, but in other areas. Our other big core
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systems are sourcing, PLM, international geographies
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with technologies like EDI and disparate technologies.
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So what we did was we actually had a portfolio
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of our applications and we said, where are we
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constantly needing more sort of burst capacity?
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And if we were to go to the CFO to say, hey,
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we need more headcount here, what do we do? And
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thankfully, my boss, the CFO and the CEO at that
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time said, hey, I want you to develop the practice
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out of India and build the competencies. And
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that's where we took the approach of, we don't
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have experience building a PLM practice in India.
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So we wanted to have our teams here manage that
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process, but Systems Plus became a great complement
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for us in terms of hiring, onboarding, making
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sure that the practice was done right. And really,
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it was a tremendous success. And so we built
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on it. So one is new competencies. The other
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one was using burst capacity wherever we needed.
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Perfect. That's a good thing about it and makes
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a lot of sense. I want to fast forward to some
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of the trends that are happening today. As you
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are well aware, AI, data, those are all very
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prominent conversations going on today. And a
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lot of companies are looking to India to set
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up their AI COEs and their data COEs. So as you
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sort of guide companies coming to India, thinking
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of setting up their AI center of excellences,
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what would you sort of tell them to think about,
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in a sense, the watchouts? How do you even tell
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them to approach the AI thinking? Because, you
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know, it literally is a very different way of
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thinking. And the funniest thing is the talent
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pool is so new, so fresh. It requires some of
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us who've sort of been, even though we've been
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in IT for so many years, it requires a complete
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brainwash of forgetting everything that I've
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learned in the past and resetting my brain. So
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how have you balanced that? In your advisory
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work, especially lately, how are you advising
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your clients to think about AI, how to build
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the AI capability, and how to build that in India
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especially? So let me start with data analytics
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and AI and AI is, you know, is definitely for
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real. There's been a little bit of hype, but
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it is a technology that is going to be here for
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a very long time. So if you took that sort of
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longer term view, I think, you know, so you've
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honed in on the domain. people are going to look
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for talent everywhere. So my first thing is,
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don't just get fixated on a particular geography
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to look at talent. You know, if you're in North
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America, don't just say, I'll build the practice
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only here. So you almost need to have a multi
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-pronged approach. And I would like to use the
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term build while you buy, you know, is this great
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insourcing model. So you start building your
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talent even in other geographies. India definitely
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has a lot of talent. And so you sort of build
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it in a dual fashion. Now, the advantages you
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also have. some degree of cost competitiveness,
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but that shouldn't be the only factor. So when
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you take that approach, then what happens is
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you are now going with a multi -pronged approach.
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You're building... the expertise, you're building
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talent, you're also building, incubating that
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knowledge in the organization. So it's not for
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this iteration, right? With AI, it's always what
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is going to happen with the next iteration. And
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sometimes that is the game changer. And so that's
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where I would say, and to some degree, it is
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not just AI. You can use this approach for anything.
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You can use it for cybersecurity, you can use
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it for infrastructure, you can even use it for
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enterprise applications because that's where
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your key domain people and technical experts
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come into play to architect the next set of solutions.
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So if used well, this is definitely a very good
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competitive model. I guess looking at your experience,
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one of the major upsides of insourcing is the
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ability to shape the capability and the culture
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from within. So sort of what approaches have
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you used, have worked for you to attract not
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only the top talent, right, but also build a
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culture that sort of has been so strong through
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and through at New Balance. I know we have that
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systems plus, and I know you're very big on culture.
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We've had these conversations many times. So
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what has enabled you sort of to build that? And
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especially today, when you're thinking of building
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something, you know, sort of a capability within
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AI, when everything's just so new, how do you
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sort of get that alignment and thinking in place?
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That is a great point, Sapan. I mean, culture
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is something foundational, right? And it is sustaining
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for a long time. It also takes time to build.
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So we as a company at New Balance, when I was
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there, and even my past experience, that is almost
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like a key attribute for a company to do well.
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So the approach we took was we built our own
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practice. So we use some lessons learned from
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there. Even in the insourcing model, we never
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made a distinction between, hey, these guys are
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from Systems Plus. These guys are from New Balance.
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We never made that distinction. So there's a
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little bit of onboarding that needs to happen
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with your leadership. That's extremely important.
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And you cannot cut corners on that. You cannot
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look at it as a transactional relationship. You
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have to look at it as a partnership that you're
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going to grow, right? And I give this advice
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even for contracting projects, you know, consulting
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projects. Because only then you get the best
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outcomes or the outcomes that you had thought
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that you had desired. So that's one part. The
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second one is the engagement of the people. Given
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that they are long -distance, you have to make
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an extra effort to make sure that there is an
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inclusion there. And it is not just India. We
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saw this even with our European office. We saw
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this in our Asia -Pac office. All of that. or
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Japan and China and all of them, right? You have
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to also empower them to make certain decisions.
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And then there's a feeling of ownership there
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from the individuals. And then the outcome is,
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for the most part, all good. So I would say that
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is extremely important. There needs to be an
00:18:36.309 --> 00:18:41.630
understanding at two levels. One is at the managerial
00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:46.130
level or the leadership level. And the second
00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:51.809
is at the execution level where folks are the
00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:56.130
experts who are brought in, they need to be onboarded
00:18:56.130 --> 00:19:00.250
properly. The advantage with the insourcing model
00:19:00.250 --> 00:19:04.369
is companies like Systems Plus do a very good
00:19:04.369 --> 00:19:06.930
job of setting the expectations because they
00:19:06.930 --> 00:19:11.130
also learn what the new balance principles of
00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:16.369
onboarding were and so it became easier for them
00:19:16.369 --> 00:19:19.309
to also understand the expectations and also
00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:24.509
be a part of it. Ravi, I definitely appreciate
00:19:24.509 --> 00:19:26.349
the credit but I think a lot more credit goes
00:19:26.349 --> 00:19:28.930
to you and sort of the way you disseminate it
00:19:28.930 --> 00:19:30.930
and sort of work with your leadership team to
00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:34.829
make sure everybody who came into the model thought
00:19:34.829 --> 00:19:37.509
themselves a New Balance and with that you got
00:19:37.509 --> 00:19:38.849
the ownership, right? I mean these guys were
00:19:38.849 --> 00:19:41.410
already to work anytime in the middle of the
00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:43.930
night, wake them up. We are going to make sure
00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:46.369
New Balance succeeds. And that was the thinking.
00:19:46.529 --> 00:19:48.670
And I think that has a lot to do with sort of
00:19:48.670 --> 00:19:50.849
what you inculcated. So I definitely want to
00:19:50.849 --> 00:19:54.750
thank you for that, through that process. Thank
00:19:54.750 --> 00:19:58.269
you so much. Absolutely. I definitely deserve
00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:04.809
that. I want to switch a little bit, right? And
00:20:04.809 --> 00:20:09.079
sort of ask you, well, more than ask you, Today,
00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:13.279
the word insourcing has evolved to GCC, Global
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.140
Capability Centers, and they truly have become
00:20:15.140 --> 00:20:16.960
Global Capability Centers for most companies,
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.539
right? What are the sort of the really, do you
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:23.900
see a limit though? Do you see a limit to what
00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:26.900
a Global Capability Center can do versus what
00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:29.640
needs to be done in headquarters? We always sort
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.039
of tell our clients, let the strategy be sitting
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.880
at the headquarters, but I've noticed that has
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.839
been changing. What are your views on that? It's
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:46.019
an excellent question. And just the fact the
00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:49.500
term Global Capability Center means a lot. It
00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.940
cannot be just only from one area. It's a very
00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:58.859
hard stride to follow. But companies who do this
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:04.599
well have great success. You know, we've seen,
00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:08.930
for example, from... from many companies. Talent
00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:14.970
sits everywhere. Now, sometimes some core decisioning
00:21:14.970 --> 00:21:17.849
has to be done from a central point and usually
00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:22.109
that happens to be the headquarters. But again,
00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:24.549
the headquarters also cannot make a decision
00:21:24.549 --> 00:21:30.769
in a vacuum. They need the inputs from key areas.
00:21:34.890 --> 00:21:40.509
I would say going forward, and my earlier point
00:21:40.509 --> 00:21:47.650
was, if you have a great analytics person, whether
00:21:47.650 --> 00:21:53.150
it be in region or in the global, I mean, essentially
00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.329
all of them are a part of the global capability
00:21:56.329 --> 00:21:59.650
center. That's how you're trying to distribute
00:21:59.650 --> 00:22:07.349
the talent across the globe. I think that model
00:22:07.349 --> 00:22:10.609
in a distributed or in some sort of a federated
00:22:10.609 --> 00:22:14.509
model is the model of the future. It cannot be
00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:21.029
just in one place. Now, the challenges are time
00:22:21.029 --> 00:22:26.009
zones, decisioning and all of that. And I think
00:22:26.009 --> 00:22:30.210
some of them can be complemented by. by bringing
00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:33.390
people together. You know, like what COVID has
00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:37.089
taught us is we can work remotely and independently,
00:22:37.430 --> 00:22:41.150
but we can also come together, right? And maybe
00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:45.250
that cadence has to be established and it's different
00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:50.390
for every company. But if you did that in a very,
00:22:50.609 --> 00:22:54.309
very disciplined fashion, I think it would pay
00:22:54.309 --> 00:22:58.750
you rich dividends over time. So then, I want
00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:02.910
to take some of your wisdom. So what do you feel
00:23:02.910 --> 00:23:06.150
that organizations typically underestimate when
00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:12.029
embarking on setting up GCCs? What missteps have
00:23:12.029 --> 00:23:15.130
you seen and what do you feel can and should
00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:19.390
be avoided? I think a couple of things or maybe
00:23:19.390 --> 00:23:21.609
more than a couple of things come to my mind.
00:23:21.809 --> 00:23:26.230
One is purely looking at it from a cost perspective.
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.279
You cannot look at this as a cost. Definitely
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:36.319
cost is an important attribute there. You have
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.380
to have it as a competitive model because you
00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:41.539
want to sustain for a period of time, right?
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:47.200
Second thing is that is underestimated is, oh,
00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:50.059
we let somebody else manage this and it's not
00:23:50.059 --> 00:23:53.059
our, you know, if it works great, then it is
00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:56.220
us. If it's not, then it's somebody else. that
00:23:56.220 --> 00:24:01.660
cannot happen. It's like a shared responsibility
00:24:01.660 --> 00:24:07.500
and one has to invest the time just like you
00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:10.720
would invest the time in your local office, right?
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.440
Even in your local office, if you did not spend
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:17.920
the time, you don't get a good output. The third
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:25.319
thing is making sure that you Have your team
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.940
be ready and take the right approach. Treat the
00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:32.279
team that is a part of the Global Capability
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.980
Center as yours, even if they are not sitting
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:37.740
here. Now, some of that has happened because
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:42.640
folks are experienced post -COVID because you
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:46.440
have people even here working in different states
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:50.579
or different regions, actually. And that experience
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:55.460
is somewhat elevated now. So organizations need
00:24:55.460 --> 00:25:00.160
to make sure that that is closely watched and
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:06.259
monitored. So I see a lot of companies sort of
00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:10.960
balk at the issue of the time it takes to set
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.819
these GCCs up, right? Fundamentally, because
00:25:13.819 --> 00:25:16.819
either because they're used to the traditional
00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:21.579
model, right? But having said that, as you rightly
00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:23.099
said, it's an investment, it's an investment.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.779
from all sides right so you know how do you balance
00:25:26.779 --> 00:25:29.619
the pressure to deliver quick outcomes with long
00:25:29.619 --> 00:25:31.119
-term investment that is actually required to
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.039
build a strong in -house capability i mean especially
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.400
in critical areas such as data platform cyber
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.119
security digital supply chain and even ai for
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.819
that matter today so i think there are a few
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:48.380
ways to to make sure that this doesn't become
00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:51.819
a three year long exercise to see the result
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:57.000
I would use a combination of first identify what
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:02.160
is an area that you see that you can get immediate
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:07.299
help and some wins. So you build on the shorter
00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:12.380
term wins. You amplify those wins because when
00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:16.079
you start amplifying those wins, others will
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.180
want to adopt. That's what we did at New Balance.
00:26:21.069 --> 00:26:25.650
Sapan saw that Ravi had success with a model
00:26:25.650 --> 00:26:32.430
and then Sapan said, I want to do the same thing.
00:26:32.730 --> 00:26:38.910
So it garners a little bit of acceptance. They're
00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:41.769
willing to put in, they're willing to learn from
00:26:41.769 --> 00:26:44.670
the peers. That is another very, very important
00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:49.009
thing that groups need to do that. So don't start
00:26:49.009 --> 00:26:53.539
with a big bang. start maybe somewhat small to
00:26:53.539 --> 00:27:00.019
medium and start elevating the wins. Okay. So
00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:06.700
that's some great advice. But I do want to get
00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:10.500
your perspective on in the end, you are a leader.
00:27:10.700 --> 00:27:12.900
You have a seat at the table. You need to show
00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:15.059
results. You need to demonstrate that this is
00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.279
working, etc. Whatever the case may be. So it's
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:23.859
a lot of pressure for for any CXO because you're
00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:27.059
making a significant decision and these are not
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:29.160
decisions that are very easy to sort of take
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.579
back. I understand our model enables a little
00:27:31.579 --> 00:27:35.960
bit of the ability to take chances more than
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:39.059
maybe just going all in on your own. But having
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:42.940
said that, what advice would you give to technology
00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:46.039
leaders who are sort of hesitant to move towards
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:52.509
this? global insourcing sort of model because
00:27:52.509 --> 00:27:56.930
of perceived complexity or you know just the
00:27:56.930 --> 00:27:59.349
internal resistance that you that you sort of
00:27:59.349 --> 00:28:01.309
people see people think that the jobs are going
00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:03.490
away etc how would you navigate that how do you
00:28:03.490 --> 00:28:06.029
manage that I know you touched on start small
00:28:06.029 --> 00:28:08.470
sort of learn fast and then sort of de -risk
00:28:08.470 --> 00:28:12.150
yourself but there's got to be something at the
00:28:12.150 --> 00:28:14.569
leadership level that you got to sort of you
00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:18.609
know have very clear in those leaders' heads
00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:21.230
saying that, guys, this can work if you do these
00:28:21.230 --> 00:28:24.849
things. So what are your thoughts on that? Great,
00:28:24.849 --> 00:28:28.490
great point. Again, I'll echo the point. This
00:28:28.490 --> 00:28:33.809
is a model that you're developing with an idea
00:28:33.809 --> 00:28:40.549
of build while you buy. That is one part. You're
00:28:40.549 --> 00:28:43.819
going to build capabilities, right? Every year
00:28:43.819 --> 00:28:46.039
you're going to say, I need capabilities here.
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:51.160
I need to add capabilities here. And you're doing
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:55.079
that with the C -level leaders, the executive
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:59.819
leadership team. And it's important. And sometimes
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.980
they are your best champions to say, hey, no,
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.839
we know Ravi's organization needs this because
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:11.039
it's going to help us. Now, if you bring those
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.940
leaders into the mix, to support you and you
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.140
also say that, hey, we'll do it responsibly with
00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:25.160
a cost model that is somewhat responsible and
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.980
at the same time, it's going to build our expertise.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:34.319
I think that's a great place to start. The second
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.059
thing is also demonstrating to the leaders that
00:29:38.059 --> 00:29:43.849
with the team we have today in a certain region,
00:29:44.130 --> 00:29:48.309
we can deliver X. But we can deliver X plus something
00:29:48.309 --> 00:29:52.670
for you. And in some cases, we can even deliver
00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:56.650
a new capability that we never had. And this
00:29:56.650 --> 00:30:01.470
is how we're going to do that. So that's an important
00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:04.369
thing to engage your sort of leadership team.
00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:08.170
It's not just a CFO. It's not just a CEO. It's
00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:12.730
your fellow peers in various domains. That's
00:30:12.730 --> 00:30:15.470
the first thing. The second thing is, again,
00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:18.430
I would echo the point of since you're doing
00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:23.029
the build while you buy, you know, you're being
00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:25.309
very deliberate in the way how you're building
00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:29.710
your capabilities. So you need to make sure that
00:30:29.710 --> 00:30:32.069
you are learning enough from it. Think of it
00:30:32.069 --> 00:30:35.990
as a learning exercise more than a delivery exercise.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.279
And that's where you want to make sure you have
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.240
the right people on your team. It's almost like
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.019
you're being an entrepreneur here. And you're
00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:50.920
building that capability with a partner and a
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:55.759
trusted partner. Fantastic. Ravi, we'll switch
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.299
gears completely. Final question of the evening.
00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:02.900
So, in the advisory work that you are now embarking
00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:06.539
on, what are some of the most common questions
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.880
they're getting um sort of around building data
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.960
analytics ai etc or if there's something else
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:15.819
that you're getting a lot of you know alternative
00:31:15.819 --> 00:31:19.240
alternative uh sourcing models i'm sure you're
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.759
getting them all and people are really want to
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.160
pick your brains but so if you can enlighten
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.740
us on some of the hot topics of the day these
00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:32.779
days that you're seeing so uh it's interesting
00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:38.329
we are at a crossroad of So many things all coming
00:31:38.329 --> 00:31:43.970
together, right? So I'll start with my passion
00:31:43.970 --> 00:31:48.029
has always been enterprise technologies at enterprise
00:31:48.029 --> 00:31:52.369
scale. At times we've, you know, maybe in the
00:31:52.369 --> 00:31:57.230
last 20 plus years, we've talked about speed,
00:31:57.349 --> 00:32:00.650
we've talked about methodologies, but really,
00:32:00.789 --> 00:32:03.829
you know, that was almost geared towards only
00:32:03.829 --> 00:32:08.619
tech. You know, we never measure the speed of
00:32:08.619 --> 00:32:12.140
decisioning, the speed of adoption in the line
00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:14.660
of business. So now leaders are asking me, how
00:32:14.660 --> 00:32:19.119
do we do that? Second thing is the importance
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:27.200
of data. You know, if you understand, and I break
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.710
it into two parts. One is the interface applications,
00:32:32.130 --> 00:32:34.970
I call it, and they can be the enterprise applications.
00:32:35.369 --> 00:32:39.450
And I call them, this is my own term that I coined
00:32:39.450 --> 00:32:45.670
called domains of truth. And if you start honing
00:32:45.670 --> 00:32:50.230
in on that, then you start capturing data. And
00:32:50.230 --> 00:32:54.369
then data with advanced analytics and AI starts
00:32:54.369 --> 00:32:57.410
giving you patterns that you were not able to
00:32:57.410 --> 00:33:00.970
see. or it took a long time for you to see because
00:33:00.970 --> 00:33:03.789
you had to spend so much time in assembling all
00:33:03.789 --> 00:33:07.490
the information and now ai is that's the game
00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:12.670
changer about ai um and so and again i i would
00:33:12.670 --> 00:33:18.150
caution companies not to get um bogged down by
00:33:18.150 --> 00:33:23.150
very large, you know, initiatives, break it into
00:33:23.150 --> 00:33:26.210
smaller chunks. And I call them digital dots.
00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:29.690
If you start building these digital dots, then
00:33:29.690 --> 00:33:32.109
you have a better shot at connecting the dots
00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:35.430
to a picture. And that's what is going to inform
00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:40.210
you. So this is my message to organizations and
00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:44.619
almost break down the one is the orange. you
00:33:44.619 --> 00:33:46.420
know, done a better job at breaking down the
00:33:46.420 --> 00:33:52.920
silos. But my message to CEOs and board members
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:56.579
are, you know, break down the sort of monolithic
00:33:56.579 --> 00:34:03.480
way of thinking. And so, even with talent, break
00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:05.759
down the monolithic way of saying we'll just
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.280
do it all in one area or we've got competency
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.119
in a certain area or certain, you know, distribute
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:17.789
that. in a way that is going to make sense. And
00:34:17.789 --> 00:34:21.250
then there's going to be a war for talent. You
00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:26.289
know, even with AI, you know, we are not, you
00:34:26.289 --> 00:34:28.690
know, it's the same thing as we saw in the dot
00:34:28.690 --> 00:34:33.429
-com days. You know, the technologies from the
00:34:33.429 --> 00:34:37.110
dot -com have not slowed down. You know, we're
00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:40.590
doing more. And so we will be doing more. Now,
00:34:40.590 --> 00:34:43.909
the nature of the work is going to change. But
00:34:43.909 --> 00:34:49.090
the need is still going to be there. No, I absolutely
00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:51.530
agree. Ravi, thank you. Thank you so much for
00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:53.550
joining us today. I encourage all our listeners
00:34:53.550 --> 00:34:56.769
to reach out to Ravi through his LinkedIn, etc.
00:34:57.610 --> 00:34:59.389
He's got a wealth of knowledge and one of the
00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:00.989
nicest guys you'll ever meet, to be perfectly
00:35:00.989 --> 00:35:03.170
honest. So I really do encourage all of you to
00:35:03.170 --> 00:35:05.570
reach out to Ravi and pick his brain, if nothing
00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:09.730
else. But Ravi, thanks once again. I really appreciate
00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:13.780
it. And we look forward to seeing each other
00:35:13.780 --> 00:35:17.019
more often and if not, I'll see you in the US
00:35:17.019 --> 00:35:19.460
next time I'm there. Thanks all for joining and
00:35:19.460 --> 00:35:21.559
looking forward to the next episode of Enabling
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.099
Digital with Systems Plus. Thank you, Sapan and
00:35:24.099 --> 00:35:27.920
thank you Systems Plus. My pleasure. Thank you.
00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:16.260
Welcome everyone to this edition of Enabling
00:00:16.260 --> 00:00:18.440
Digital with Systems Plus, a podcast series.
00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:22.359
Today we are joined by Ravi Shankwaram, a visionary
00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:24.620
thought leader specializing in business architecture
00:00:24.620 --> 00:00:27.699
and the strategic evolution of business models
00:00:27.699 --> 00:00:29.940
through intelligent technology integrations.
00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:34.060
With extensive experience spanning CPG, B2B and
00:00:34.060 --> 00:00:37.579
B2C markets, he brings deep expertise in AI and
00:00:37.579 --> 00:00:39.899
advanced analytics, next -gen infrastructure,
00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:44.340
and enterprise applications as a dedicated innovator
00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:47.060
ravi continuously experiments with technology
00:00:47.060 --> 00:00:50.060
and business transformation to uncover emerging
00:00:50.060 --> 00:00:52.700
opportunities and enable revolutionary approaches
00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:56.000
to organizational effectiveness ravi it's great
00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.740
to have you here today pleasure to be here welcome
00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:09.510
welcome so ravi let's jump right in Speaking
00:01:09.510 --> 00:01:12.349
of evolution of business models, from your perspective,
00:01:12.390 --> 00:01:14.829
Ravi, when does it make sense for an organization
00:01:14.829 --> 00:01:17.569
to consider insourcing technology or digital
00:01:17.569 --> 00:01:19.930
capabilities globally, particularly in regions
00:01:19.930 --> 00:01:23.109
like India, rather than relying on partners or
00:01:23.109 --> 00:01:29.310
third parties? Yeah, the approach I took was
00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:32.769
to take a look at our competencies. What are
00:01:32.769 --> 00:01:39.079
we good at? both from a region perspective and
00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:44.180
a headquarters perspective. And the idea was
00:01:44.180 --> 00:01:49.439
we wanted to do things well. So in areas we had
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:55.180
the experience, we got our own teams to grow
00:01:55.180 --> 00:02:00.400
and expand. But in areas where we wanted to build
00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:06.049
the expertise at a global scale, we actually
00:02:06.049 --> 00:02:10.610
approached this insourcing model. And we approached
00:02:10.610 --> 00:02:17.849
it as early as 2014. And that's where we took
00:02:17.849 --> 00:02:22.930
a look at it from a few perspectives. One is,
00:02:23.069 --> 00:02:26.750
what is our capability maturity that we wanted
00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:30.909
to have in two, three years' time? What is the
00:02:30.909 --> 00:02:34.780
investment we wanted to make? And more importantly,
00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:40.580
what is the talent we wanted to build? And as
00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:43.840
we all know, it takes a little bit of time to
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.879
incubate talent. And that's where we saw a great
00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:51.460
partnership with Systems Plus to build that.
00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.360
So then at New Balance, and even for that matter,
00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:58.860
other organizations that you've worked with,
00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:04.280
You seem to indicate it was a combination of
00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:06.020
things. It was a combination of speed, cost,
00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:07.879
control, innovation. All of these things played
00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.539
a role in the decision -making process. Is that
00:03:10.539 --> 00:03:15.199
a fair statement? I think you hit on all the
00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.800
key points there. One is, again, being an experimenter
00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:24.419
at heart is not just about technology. It's also
00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:30.349
about capability. So what we did was we definitely
00:03:30.349 --> 00:03:34.650
wanted speed and speed was only going to increase
00:03:34.650 --> 00:03:39.030
over a period of time. And we all know that to
00:03:39.030 --> 00:03:42.110
build talent and then to achieve some critical
00:03:42.110 --> 00:03:48.250
speed, it takes a bit of time. And innovation
00:03:48.250 --> 00:03:52.189
is closely tied to it because you want the right
00:03:52.189 --> 00:03:56.729
talent there. And of course, cost. And control
00:03:56.729 --> 00:04:01.550
is, we had a tagline after the pandemic, control
00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.629
your destiny. So this played right into that
00:04:05.629 --> 00:04:10.030
for us to keep building our expertise. Interesting.
00:04:10.270 --> 00:04:13.069
You mentioned you thought about this, you went
00:04:13.069 --> 00:04:16.089
down this journey starting in 2014. Obviously,
00:04:16.089 --> 00:04:17.269
that means you must have thought about it earlier.
00:04:17.689 --> 00:04:21.009
Most companies were not thinking this way. So
00:04:21.009 --> 00:04:24.279
what sort of triggered it? within your organization
00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.819
to start thinking in this direction? So in our
00:04:28.819 --> 00:04:34.259
case, we had built our own sort of talent expertise
00:04:34.259 --> 00:04:39.480
in certain competencies out of our India office
00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:44.319
with an eye towards supporting the globe and
00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:49.629
various time zones. we actually had some lessons
00:04:49.629 --> 00:04:52.949
learned from that. We also knew what we couldn't
00:04:52.949 --> 00:04:57.449
do by ourselves. So that's where we looked for
00:04:57.449 --> 00:05:01.649
a partner, and Systems Plus was a great partner
00:05:01.649 --> 00:05:07.370
in sort of helping us sort of incubate that idea,
00:05:07.470 --> 00:05:12.129
that approach, with the areas that we wanted
00:05:12.129 --> 00:05:16.389
to build the expertise on. And so... That's where
00:05:16.389 --> 00:05:20.430
we started, you know, with a small footprint.
00:05:21.050 --> 00:05:26.029
And then we, as we learned more about the model,
00:05:26.069 --> 00:05:29.990
the model is also... It's extremely important
00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:32.250
to remember that you have to make a commitment
00:05:32.250 --> 00:05:35.209
and you have to make sure, just like you're making
00:05:35.209 --> 00:05:37.870
a commitment to your staff, right? Your own in
00:05:37.870 --> 00:05:41.209
-house staff. This is no different than that.
00:05:41.629 --> 00:05:45.370
And then once you do that, you start seeing the
00:05:45.370 --> 00:05:49.029
results and then you also build on experience.
00:05:49.050 --> 00:05:52.490
So one competency, once you've got that under
00:05:52.490 --> 00:05:55.790
your belt, it becomes easier to go to the next
00:05:55.790 --> 00:05:59.420
set of competencies. No, fantastic. And you're
00:05:59.420 --> 00:06:02.860
right. It is a commitment. And I think those
00:06:02.860 --> 00:06:06.600
who miss that point usually end up in disaster.
00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:09.899
And we've seen that happen multiple times. Yeah,
00:06:09.939 --> 00:06:13.420
if you just approached it purely from a cost
00:06:13.420 --> 00:06:19.420
model, this is not a good... In any relationship,
00:06:19.579 --> 00:06:22.600
if you just approached it purely from a cost
00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.839
model, that is not sustainable for the long run.
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:31.160
I think you have to approach it with not just
00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.519
the cost. It is how are you building your capability?
00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:38.560
How are you building speed? And then as you're
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.680
doing that, you know, you're also having a strategic
00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:45.300
control over your, you know, your human capital
00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:51.839
and IP. Right. So what's your, I'm going to sort
00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:55.639
of ask you sort of a two part question. I mean,
00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.199
today, India continues to be a go -to location
00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.379
for scaling internal tech teams, thanks to a
00:07:02.379 --> 00:07:05.240
compelling mix of cost efficiency and deep technical
00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:08.240
talent. But back then, what made you choose India?
00:07:08.379 --> 00:07:11.339
I mean, a lot of people are talking about Latin
00:07:11.339 --> 00:07:13.740
America, a lot of people are talking about Eastern
00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:16.660
Europe, etc. People still do, but what made you
00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:23.680
choose India? One important thing was we... We
00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:26.899
already had a practice, our own practice there,
00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:31.399
New Balance IT. So that helped us. But even if
00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.399
we did not have that, the reason we picked India
00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:39.579
was the time zone. We had teams that had to support,
00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:42.420
and even with the relationship with Systems Plus,
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:47.480
we had teams that supported, that had eyes on
00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:51.709
the glass for... Australia, New Zealand, and
00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:58.209
Japan, China, and all of that. And then even
00:07:58.209 --> 00:08:07.050
for Europe, that became easy. Now, it's at times
00:08:07.050 --> 00:08:10.170
a challenge for organization in North America
00:08:10.170 --> 00:08:15.160
from a time zone perspective. But again, if you
00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.920
use the model intelligently in terms of the time
00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:23.399
zones that benefit you, I think India is a very,
00:08:23.459 --> 00:08:27.600
very good answer. That was one part. The second
00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:32.059
part is the level of talent that you have there.
00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:36.000
You know, the level of talent, the ecosystem
00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:41.139
with partners like Systems Plus, that really,
00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:45.590
I mean, They had the experience of working with
00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:49.970
companies in the US and across the globe. So
00:08:49.970 --> 00:08:54.070
it became a complimenting thing for us to even
00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:58.750
learn from them on many aspects like hiring,
00:08:59.070 --> 00:09:02.769
retention, you know, what are the best practices
00:09:02.769 --> 00:09:07.620
and all of that. So that's where I... We found
00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:11.019
that India was was a good model and we kind of
00:09:11.019 --> 00:09:17.360
used that model in other places as well So I
00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.659
guess what works for you in aligning those distributed
00:09:20.659 --> 00:09:24.220
global teams Not only you know, as you've mentioned
00:09:24.220 --> 00:09:27.200
you had you're supporting the Pacific you're
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:30.179
supporting Europe North America, of course, right
00:09:30.179 --> 00:09:33.500
But how were you able to sort of align the core
00:09:33.500 --> 00:09:35.379
goals of the enterprise and sort of how do you
00:09:35.379 --> 00:09:38.539
ensure? that the teams actually move at the same
00:09:38.539 --> 00:09:40.940
pace and remain tightly connected to the business
00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:44.100
priorities and just then start doing things on
00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:45.919
their own or sort of go start going in different
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:52.059
directions so one thing was uh you know we there
00:09:52.059 --> 00:09:56.100
was a need for us to provide more support in
00:09:56.100 --> 00:10:01.000
so we were providing support on erp and analytics
00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:05.909
and every now and then we needed help Not only
00:10:05.909 --> 00:10:11.429
there, but in other areas. Our other big core
00:10:11.429 --> 00:10:17.590
systems are sourcing, PLM, international geographies
00:10:17.590 --> 00:10:24.350
with technologies like EDI and disparate technologies.
00:10:25.370 --> 00:10:28.450
So what we did was we actually had a portfolio
00:10:28.450 --> 00:10:31.509
of our applications and we said, where are we
00:10:31.509 --> 00:10:34.289
constantly needing more sort of burst capacity?
00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:37.820
And if we were to go to the CFO to say, hey,
00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:41.440
we need more headcount here, what do we do? And
00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.279
thankfully, my boss, the CFO and the CEO at that
00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:50.519
time said, hey, I want you to develop the practice
00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:53.940
out of India and build the competencies. And
00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:59.240
that's where we took the approach of, we don't
00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:01.659
have experience building a PLM practice in India.
00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:06.860
So we wanted to have our teams here manage that
00:11:06.860 --> 00:11:10.779
process, but Systems Plus became a great complement
00:11:10.779 --> 00:11:14.740
for us in terms of hiring, onboarding, making
00:11:14.740 --> 00:11:19.600
sure that the practice was done right. And really,
00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.320
it was a tremendous success. And so we built
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.200
on it. So one is new competencies. The other
00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.519
one was using burst capacity wherever we needed.
00:11:34.329 --> 00:11:36.330
Perfect. That's a good thing about it and makes
00:11:36.330 --> 00:11:38.370
a lot of sense. I want to fast forward to some
00:11:38.370 --> 00:11:41.789
of the trends that are happening today. As you
00:11:41.789 --> 00:11:47.269
are well aware, AI, data, those are all very
00:11:47.269 --> 00:11:50.429
prominent conversations going on today. And a
00:11:50.429 --> 00:11:53.549
lot of companies are looking to India to set
00:11:53.549 --> 00:11:58.990
up their AI COEs and their data COEs. So as you
00:11:58.990 --> 00:12:03.399
sort of guide companies coming to India, thinking
00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:06.360
of setting up their AI center of excellences,
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:12.740
what would you sort of tell them to think about,
00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:15.340
in a sense, the watchouts? How do you even tell
00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:18.879
them to approach the AI thinking? Because, you
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.159
know, it literally is a very different way of
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.440
thinking. And the funniest thing is the talent
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:30.200
pool is so new, so fresh. It requires some of
00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.840
us who've sort of been, even though we've been
00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.539
in IT for so many years, it requires a complete
00:12:35.539 --> 00:12:38.960
brainwash of forgetting everything that I've
00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:41.320
learned in the past and resetting my brain. So
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.980
how have you balanced that? In your advisory
00:12:44.980 --> 00:12:47.019
work, especially lately, how are you advising
00:12:47.019 --> 00:12:49.139
your clients to think about AI, how to build
00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:52.299
the AI capability, and how to build that in India
00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:57.159
especially? So let me start with data analytics
00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:02.259
and AI and AI is, you know, is definitely for
00:13:02.259 --> 00:13:06.139
real. There's been a little bit of hype, but
00:13:06.139 --> 00:13:11.240
it is a technology that is going to be here for
00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:16.259
a very long time. So if you took that sort of
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:20.879
longer term view, I think, you know, so you've
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:25.480
honed in on the domain. people are going to look
00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:29.679
for talent everywhere. So my first thing is,
00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:34.419
don't just get fixated on a particular geography
00:13:34.419 --> 00:13:38.759
to look at talent. You know, if you're in North
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.960
America, don't just say, I'll build the practice
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:44.860
only here. So you almost need to have a multi
00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:48.879
-pronged approach. And I would like to use the
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:53.539
term build while you buy, you know, is this great
00:13:53.539 --> 00:13:58.759
insourcing model. So you start building your
00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:02.279
talent even in other geographies. India definitely
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:08.500
has a lot of talent. And so you sort of build
00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:11.679
it in a dual fashion. Now, the advantages you
00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:17.240
also have. some degree of cost competitiveness,
00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:21.759
but that shouldn't be the only factor. So when
00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:24.659
you take that approach, then what happens is
00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:29.179
you are now going with a multi -pronged approach.
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.610
You're building... the expertise, you're building
00:14:32.610 --> 00:14:35.629
talent, you're also building, incubating that
00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:39.409
knowledge in the organization. So it's not for
00:14:39.409 --> 00:14:42.929
this iteration, right? With AI, it's always what
00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:46.090
is going to happen with the next iteration. And
00:14:46.090 --> 00:14:50.610
sometimes that is the game changer. And so that's
00:14:50.610 --> 00:14:54.889
where I would say, and to some degree, it is
00:14:54.889 --> 00:14:59.529
not just AI. You can use this approach for anything.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.879
You can use it for cybersecurity, you can use
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.960
it for infrastructure, you can even use it for
00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.799
enterprise applications because that's where
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:14.320
your key domain people and technical experts
00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.500
come into play to architect the next set of solutions.
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:25.100
So if used well, this is definitely a very good
00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:31.850
competitive model. I guess looking at your experience,
00:15:32.009 --> 00:15:36.370
one of the major upsides of insourcing is the
00:15:36.370 --> 00:15:38.370
ability to shape the capability and the culture
00:15:38.370 --> 00:15:42.110
from within. So sort of what approaches have
00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:46.210
you used, have worked for you to attract not
00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:49.970
only the top talent, right, but also build a
00:15:49.970 --> 00:15:53.929
culture that sort of has been so strong through
00:15:53.929 --> 00:15:56.289
and through at New Balance. I know we have that
00:15:56.289 --> 00:15:59.049
systems plus, and I know you're very big on culture.
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:01.419
We've had these conversations many times. So
00:16:01.419 --> 00:16:05.460
what has enabled you sort of to build that? And
00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:08.360
especially today, when you're thinking of building
00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.980
something, you know, sort of a capability within
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.940
AI, when everything's just so new, how do you
00:16:13.940 --> 00:16:16.419
sort of get that alignment and thinking in place?
00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:23.080
That is a great point, Sapan. I mean, culture
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.240
is something foundational, right? And it is sustaining
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.649
for a long time. It also takes time to build.
00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:36.710
So we as a company at New Balance, when I was
00:16:36.710 --> 00:16:40.990
there, and even my past experience, that is almost
00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:48.929
like a key attribute for a company to do well.
00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:55.669
So the approach we took was we built our own
00:16:55.669 --> 00:16:58.590
practice. So we use some lessons learned from
00:16:58.590 --> 00:17:03.009
there. Even in the insourcing model, we never
00:17:03.009 --> 00:17:07.069
made a distinction between, hey, these guys are
00:17:07.069 --> 00:17:09.609
from Systems Plus. These guys are from New Balance.
00:17:10.269 --> 00:17:13.869
We never made that distinction. So there's a
00:17:13.869 --> 00:17:15.990
little bit of onboarding that needs to happen
00:17:15.990 --> 00:17:19.170
with your leadership. That's extremely important.
00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:22.470
And you cannot cut corners on that. You cannot
00:17:22.470 --> 00:17:26.069
look at it as a transactional relationship. You
00:17:26.069 --> 00:17:28.970
have to look at it as a partnership that you're
00:17:28.970 --> 00:17:32.150
going to grow, right? And I give this advice
00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:37.490
even for contracting projects, you know, consulting
00:17:37.490 --> 00:17:40.089
projects. Because only then you get the best
00:17:40.089 --> 00:17:42.890
outcomes or the outcomes that you had thought
00:17:42.890 --> 00:17:47.119
that you had desired. So that's one part. The
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.519
second one is the engagement of the people. Given
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.059
that they are long -distance, you have to make
00:17:54.059 --> 00:18:00.000
an extra effort to make sure that there is an
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.880
inclusion there. And it is not just India. We
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.839
saw this even with our European office. We saw
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.170
this in our Asia -Pac office. All of that. or
00:18:11.170 --> 00:18:13.910
Japan and China and all of them, right? You have
00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:16.950
to also empower them to make certain decisions.
00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:21.490
And then there's a feeling of ownership there
00:18:21.490 --> 00:18:27.930
from the individuals. And then the outcome is,
00:18:28.049 --> 00:18:32.869
for the most part, all good. So I would say that
00:18:32.869 --> 00:18:36.309
is extremely important. There needs to be an
00:18:36.309 --> 00:18:41.630
understanding at two levels. One is at the managerial
00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:46.130
level or the leadership level. And the second
00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:51.809
is at the execution level where folks are the
00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:56.130
experts who are brought in, they need to be onboarded
00:18:56.130 --> 00:19:00.250
properly. The advantage with the insourcing model
00:19:00.250 --> 00:19:04.369
is companies like Systems Plus do a very good
00:19:04.369 --> 00:19:06.930
job of setting the expectations because they
00:19:06.930 --> 00:19:11.130
also learn what the new balance principles of
00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:16.369
onboarding were and so it became easier for them
00:19:16.369 --> 00:19:19.309
to also understand the expectations and also
00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:24.509
be a part of it. Ravi, I definitely appreciate
00:19:24.509 --> 00:19:26.349
the credit but I think a lot more credit goes
00:19:26.349 --> 00:19:28.930
to you and sort of the way you disseminate it
00:19:28.930 --> 00:19:30.930
and sort of work with your leadership team to
00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:34.829
make sure everybody who came into the model thought
00:19:34.829 --> 00:19:37.509
themselves a New Balance and with that you got
00:19:37.509 --> 00:19:38.849
the ownership, right? I mean these guys were
00:19:38.849 --> 00:19:41.410
already to work anytime in the middle of the
00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:43.930
night, wake them up. We are going to make sure
00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:46.369
New Balance succeeds. And that was the thinking.
00:19:46.529 --> 00:19:48.670
And I think that has a lot to do with sort of
00:19:48.670 --> 00:19:50.849
what you inculcated. So I definitely want to
00:19:50.849 --> 00:19:54.750
thank you for that, through that process. Thank
00:19:54.750 --> 00:19:58.269
you so much. Absolutely. I definitely deserve
00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:04.809
that. I want to switch a little bit, right? And
00:20:04.809 --> 00:20:09.079
sort of ask you, well, more than ask you, Today,
00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:13.279
the word insourcing has evolved to GCC, Global
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.140
Capability Centers, and they truly have become
00:20:15.140 --> 00:20:16.960
Global Capability Centers for most companies,
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.539
right? What are the sort of the really, do you
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:23.900
see a limit though? Do you see a limit to what
00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:26.900
a Global Capability Center can do versus what
00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:29.640
needs to be done in headquarters? We always sort
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.039
of tell our clients, let the strategy be sitting
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.880
at the headquarters, but I've noticed that has
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.839
been changing. What are your views on that? It's
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:46.019
an excellent question. And just the fact the
00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:49.500
term Global Capability Center means a lot. It
00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.940
cannot be just only from one area. It's a very
00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:58.859
hard stride to follow. But companies who do this
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:04.599
well have great success. You know, we've seen,
00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:08.930
for example, from... from many companies. Talent
00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:14.970
sits everywhere. Now, sometimes some core decisioning
00:21:14.970 --> 00:21:17.849
has to be done from a central point and usually
00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:22.109
that happens to be the headquarters. But again,
00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:24.549
the headquarters also cannot make a decision
00:21:24.549 --> 00:21:30.769
in a vacuum. They need the inputs from key areas.
00:21:34.890 --> 00:21:40.509
I would say going forward, and my earlier point
00:21:40.509 --> 00:21:47.650
was, if you have a great analytics person, whether
00:21:47.650 --> 00:21:53.150
it be in region or in the global, I mean, essentially
00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.329
all of them are a part of the global capability
00:21:56.329 --> 00:21:59.650
center. That's how you're trying to distribute
00:21:59.650 --> 00:22:07.349
the talent across the globe. I think that model
00:22:07.349 --> 00:22:10.609
in a distributed or in some sort of a federated
00:22:10.609 --> 00:22:14.509
model is the model of the future. It cannot be
00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:21.029
just in one place. Now, the challenges are time
00:22:21.029 --> 00:22:26.009
zones, decisioning and all of that. And I think
00:22:26.009 --> 00:22:30.210
some of them can be complemented by. by bringing
00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:33.390
people together. You know, like what COVID has
00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:37.089
taught us is we can work remotely and independently,
00:22:37.430 --> 00:22:41.150
but we can also come together, right? And maybe
00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:45.250
that cadence has to be established and it's different
00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:50.390
for every company. But if you did that in a very,
00:22:50.609 --> 00:22:54.309
very disciplined fashion, I think it would pay
00:22:54.309 --> 00:22:58.750
you rich dividends over time. So then, I want
00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:02.910
to take some of your wisdom. So what do you feel
00:23:02.910 --> 00:23:06.150
that organizations typically underestimate when
00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:12.029
embarking on setting up GCCs? What missteps have
00:23:12.029 --> 00:23:15.130
you seen and what do you feel can and should
00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:19.390
be avoided? I think a couple of things or maybe
00:23:19.390 --> 00:23:21.609
more than a couple of things come to my mind.
00:23:21.809 --> 00:23:26.230
One is purely looking at it from a cost perspective.
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.279
You cannot look at this as a cost. Definitely
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:36.319
cost is an important attribute there. You have
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.380
to have it as a competitive model because you
00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:41.539
want to sustain for a period of time, right?
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:47.200
Second thing is that is underestimated is, oh,
00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:50.059
we let somebody else manage this and it's not
00:23:50.059 --> 00:23:53.059
our, you know, if it works great, then it is
00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:56.220
us. If it's not, then it's somebody else. that
00:23:56.220 --> 00:24:01.660
cannot happen. It's like a shared responsibility
00:24:01.660 --> 00:24:07.500
and one has to invest the time just like you
00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:10.720
would invest the time in your local office, right?
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.440
Even in your local office, if you did not spend
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:17.920
the time, you don't get a good output. The third
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:25.319
thing is making sure that you Have your team
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.940
be ready and take the right approach. Treat the
00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:32.279
team that is a part of the Global Capability
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.980
Center as yours, even if they are not sitting
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:37.740
here. Now, some of that has happened because
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:42.640
folks are experienced post -COVID because you
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:46.440
have people even here working in different states
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:50.579
or different regions, actually. And that experience
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:55.460
is somewhat elevated now. So organizations need
00:24:55.460 --> 00:25:00.160
to make sure that that is closely watched and
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:06.259
monitored. So I see a lot of companies sort of
00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:10.960
balk at the issue of the time it takes to set
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.819
these GCCs up, right? Fundamentally, because
00:25:13.819 --> 00:25:16.819
either because they're used to the traditional
00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:21.579
model, right? But having said that, as you rightly
00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:23.099
said, it's an investment, it's an investment.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.779
from all sides right so you know how do you balance
00:25:26.779 --> 00:25:29.619
the pressure to deliver quick outcomes with long
00:25:29.619 --> 00:25:31.119
-term investment that is actually required to
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.039
build a strong in -house capability i mean especially
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.400
in critical areas such as data platform cyber
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.119
security digital supply chain and even ai for
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.819
that matter today so i think there are a few
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:48.380
ways to to make sure that this doesn't become
00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:51.819
a three year long exercise to see the result
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:57.000
I would use a combination of first identify what
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:02.160
is an area that you see that you can get immediate
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:07.299
help and some wins. So you build on the shorter
00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:12.380
term wins. You amplify those wins because when
00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:16.079
you start amplifying those wins, others will
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.180
want to adopt. That's what we did at New Balance.
00:26:21.069 --> 00:26:25.650
Sapan saw that Ravi had success with a model
00:26:25.650 --> 00:26:32.430
and then Sapan said, I want to do the same thing.
00:26:32.730 --> 00:26:38.910
So it garners a little bit of acceptance. They're
00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:41.769
willing to put in, they're willing to learn from
00:26:41.769 --> 00:26:44.670
the peers. That is another very, very important
00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:49.009
thing that groups need to do that. So don't start
00:26:49.009 --> 00:26:53.539
with a big bang. start maybe somewhat small to
00:26:53.539 --> 00:27:00.019
medium and start elevating the wins. Okay. So
00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:06.700
that's some great advice. But I do want to get
00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:10.500
your perspective on in the end, you are a leader.
00:27:10.700 --> 00:27:12.900
You have a seat at the table. You need to show
00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:15.059
results. You need to demonstrate that this is
00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.279
working, etc. Whatever the case may be. So it's
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:23.859
a lot of pressure for for any CXO because you're
00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:27.059
making a significant decision and these are not
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:29.160
decisions that are very easy to sort of take
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.579
back. I understand our model enables a little
00:27:31.579 --> 00:27:35.960
bit of the ability to take chances more than
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:39.059
maybe just going all in on your own. But having
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:42.940
said that, what advice would you give to technology
00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:46.039
leaders who are sort of hesitant to move towards
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:52.509
this? global insourcing sort of model because
00:27:52.509 --> 00:27:56.930
of perceived complexity or you know just the
00:27:56.930 --> 00:27:59.349
internal resistance that you that you sort of
00:27:59.349 --> 00:28:01.309
people see people think that the jobs are going
00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:03.490
away etc how would you navigate that how do you
00:28:03.490 --> 00:28:06.029
manage that I know you touched on start small
00:28:06.029 --> 00:28:08.470
sort of learn fast and then sort of de -risk
00:28:08.470 --> 00:28:12.150
yourself but there's got to be something at the
00:28:12.150 --> 00:28:14.569
leadership level that you got to sort of you
00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:18.609
know have very clear in those leaders' heads
00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:21.230
saying that, guys, this can work if you do these
00:28:21.230 --> 00:28:24.849
things. So what are your thoughts on that? Great,
00:28:24.849 --> 00:28:28.490
great point. Again, I'll echo the point. This
00:28:28.490 --> 00:28:33.809
is a model that you're developing with an idea
00:28:33.809 --> 00:28:40.549
of build while you buy. That is one part. You're
00:28:40.549 --> 00:28:43.819
going to build capabilities, right? Every year
00:28:43.819 --> 00:28:46.039
you're going to say, I need capabilities here.
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:51.160
I need to add capabilities here. And you're doing
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:55.079
that with the C -level leaders, the executive
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:59.819
leadership team. And it's important. And sometimes
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.980
they are your best champions to say, hey, no,
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.839
we know Ravi's organization needs this because
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:11.039
it's going to help us. Now, if you bring those
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.940
leaders into the mix, to support you and you
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.140
also say that, hey, we'll do it responsibly with
00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:25.160
a cost model that is somewhat responsible and
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.980
at the same time, it's going to build our expertise.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:34.319
I think that's a great place to start. The second
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.059
thing is also demonstrating to the leaders that
00:29:38.059 --> 00:29:43.849
with the team we have today in a certain region,
00:29:44.130 --> 00:29:48.309
we can deliver X. But we can deliver X plus something
00:29:48.309 --> 00:29:52.670
for you. And in some cases, we can even deliver
00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:56.650
a new capability that we never had. And this
00:29:56.650 --> 00:30:01.470
is how we're going to do that. So that's an important
00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:04.369
thing to engage your sort of leadership team.
00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:08.170
It's not just a CFO. It's not just a CEO. It's
00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:12.730
your fellow peers in various domains. That's
00:30:12.730 --> 00:30:15.470
the first thing. The second thing is, again,
00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:18.430
I would echo the point of since you're doing
00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:23.029
the build while you buy, you know, you're being
00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:25.309
very deliberate in the way how you're building
00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:29.710
your capabilities. So you need to make sure that
00:30:29.710 --> 00:30:32.069
you are learning enough from it. Think of it
00:30:32.069 --> 00:30:35.990
as a learning exercise more than a delivery exercise.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.279
And that's where you want to make sure you have
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.240
the right people on your team. It's almost like
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.019
you're being an entrepreneur here. And you're
00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:50.920
building that capability with a partner and a
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:55.759
trusted partner. Fantastic. Ravi, we'll switch
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.299
gears completely. Final question of the evening.
00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:02.900
So, in the advisory work that you are now embarking
00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:06.539
on, what are some of the most common questions
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.880
they're getting um sort of around building data
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.960
analytics ai etc or if there's something else
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:15.819
that you're getting a lot of you know alternative
00:31:15.819 --> 00:31:19.240
alternative uh sourcing models i'm sure you're
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.759
getting them all and people are really want to
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.160
pick your brains but so if you can enlighten
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.740
us on some of the hot topics of the day these
00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:32.779
days that you're seeing so uh it's interesting
00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:38.329
we are at a crossroad of So many things all coming
00:31:38.329 --> 00:31:43.970
together, right? So I'll start with my passion
00:31:43.970 --> 00:31:48.029
has always been enterprise technologies at enterprise
00:31:48.029 --> 00:31:52.369
scale. At times we've, you know, maybe in the
00:31:52.369 --> 00:31:57.230
last 20 plus years, we've talked about speed,
00:31:57.349 --> 00:32:00.650
we've talked about methodologies, but really,
00:32:00.789 --> 00:32:03.829
you know, that was almost geared towards only
00:32:03.829 --> 00:32:08.619
tech. You know, we never measure the speed of
00:32:08.619 --> 00:32:12.140
decisioning, the speed of adoption in the line
00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:14.660
of business. So now leaders are asking me, how
00:32:14.660 --> 00:32:19.119
do we do that? Second thing is the importance
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:27.200
of data. You know, if you understand, and I break
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.710
it into two parts. One is the interface applications,
00:32:32.130 --> 00:32:34.970
I call it, and they can be the enterprise applications.
00:32:35.369 --> 00:32:39.450
And I call them, this is my own term that I coined
00:32:39.450 --> 00:32:45.670
called domains of truth. And if you start honing
00:32:45.670 --> 00:32:50.230
in on that, then you start capturing data. And
00:32:50.230 --> 00:32:54.369
then data with advanced analytics and AI starts
00:32:54.369 --> 00:32:57.410
giving you patterns that you were not able to
00:32:57.410 --> 00:33:00.970
see. or it took a long time for you to see because
00:33:00.970 --> 00:33:03.789
you had to spend so much time in assembling all
00:33:03.789 --> 00:33:07.490
the information and now ai is that's the game
00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:12.670
changer about ai um and so and again i i would
00:33:12.670 --> 00:33:18.150
caution companies not to get um bogged down by
00:33:18.150 --> 00:33:23.150
very large, you know, initiatives, break it into
00:33:23.150 --> 00:33:26.210
smaller chunks. And I call them digital dots.
00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:29.690
If you start building these digital dots, then
00:33:29.690 --> 00:33:32.109
you have a better shot at connecting the dots
00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:35.430
to a picture. And that's what is going to inform
00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:40.210
you. So this is my message to organizations and
00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:44.619
almost break down the one is the orange. you
00:33:44.619 --> 00:33:46.420
know, done a better job at breaking down the
00:33:46.420 --> 00:33:52.920
silos. But my message to CEOs and board members
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:56.579
are, you know, break down the sort of monolithic
00:33:56.579 --> 00:34:03.480
way of thinking. And so, even with talent, break
00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:05.759
down the monolithic way of saying we'll just
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.280
do it all in one area or we've got competency
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.119
in a certain area or certain, you know, distribute
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:17.789
that. in a way that is going to make sense. And
00:34:17.789 --> 00:34:21.250
then there's going to be a war for talent. You
00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:26.289
know, even with AI, you know, we are not, you
00:34:26.289 --> 00:34:28.690
know, it's the same thing as we saw in the dot
00:34:28.690 --> 00:34:33.429
-com days. You know, the technologies from the
00:34:33.429 --> 00:34:37.110
dot -com have not slowed down. You know, we're
00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:40.590
doing more. And so we will be doing more. Now,
00:34:40.590 --> 00:34:43.909
the nature of the work is going to change. But
00:34:43.909 --> 00:34:49.090
the need is still going to be there. No, I absolutely
00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:51.530
agree. Ravi, thank you. Thank you so much for
00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:53.550
joining us today. I encourage all our listeners
00:34:53.550 --> 00:34:56.769
to reach out to Ravi through his LinkedIn, etc.
00:34:57.610 --> 00:34:59.389
He's got a wealth of knowledge and one of the
00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:00.989
nicest guys you'll ever meet, to be perfectly
00:35:00.989 --> 00:35:03.170
honest. So I really do encourage all of you to
00:35:03.170 --> 00:35:05.570
reach out to Ravi and pick his brain, if nothing
00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:09.730
else. But Ravi, thanks once again. I really appreciate
00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:13.780
it. And we look forward to seeing each other
00:35:13.780 --> 00:35:17.019
more often and if not, I'll see you in the US
00:35:17.019 --> 00:35:19.460
next time I'm there. Thanks all for joining and
00:35:19.460 --> 00:35:21.559
looking forward to the next episode of Enabling
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.099
Digital with Systems Plus. Thank you, Sapan and
00:35:24.099 --> 00:35:27.920
thank you Systems Plus. My pleasure. Thank you.
