Trust Is a Behavior

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All right.
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Hello everyone.
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Welcome to Empathy By Design, the live edition.
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This will be a podcast eventually, probably by tomorrow.
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So it goes out.
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Our emails and our newsletter also called, called Signals and Systems.
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Um, so today we have Katie Kurtz, who's a part of our affinity group, and we are talking about something she and I are both really passionate about, and that is trust as a behavior.
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Now, Katie has a course that I'm in as well.
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Called trust works, where she actually talks about the many of the things that we talk about here, which is how we develop trust in, in ourselves through self, um, self-trust, and then then how that impacts systems.
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Katie, can you talk a little bit more about trust works and your work and how it, like that ripple.
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Yeah, so Trust Works, uh, serves a kind of a dual purpose.
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The Trust is a acronym that stands for Trauma-Informed Relational Upskilling and Systems Transformation.
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But also we know trust is at the core of trauma-informed care, human-centered care, everything we do right, uh, when we're working with humans, if we're, whether we're in tech business.
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Ai, whatever it may be, if we, we know we need trust in order to build relationships, to sell, to convene, to collaborate, et cetera, right? But trust is not a vibe, it's a verb.
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It's an action, it's a behavior.
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And so trust works is.
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A comprehensive training and certification program that looks at specific, uh, trauma informed leadership principle strategies and skills to look through the, this very humanity affirming lens to understand the neuroscience of trust.
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Understand the behaviors of trust because we know.
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Trust creates conditions for safety, whether that's physical, psychological, social, moral, financial, cultural safety, and we build trust at the pace of our nervous system.
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So this program really hones in on the neuroscience evidence, support, and this very proven.
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Um, model of trauma-informed leadership to help us get into how do we shift and reorient our lens, uh, through this approach and then start to apply it over our existing everyday life.
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It's not asking us to become something new or do something new.
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It's to reorient to shift to.
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Really look at how am I choosing in each moment to focus on trust, uh, in a very distrustful time.
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And so this is a really, I've, I've been a trauma informed subject matter expert for a really long time, and this training really advances the approach.
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It really looks through a self-leadership lens.
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How are we choosing to lead our lives right now in this moment? Uh, and it.
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Focus is not just on like another training.
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It's looking at real life application, real life scenarios, interactive workbooks, and a community of practice model that really helps, and I'm with you all the way to guide you in how to implement this.
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So it becomes the easy choice.
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It's not something you're actively like, oh gosh, let me get my workbook or think about, you know, it's, it's becomes an easy, confident choice.
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And I think right now.
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You know, we don't really have any more time to waste.
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Um, we're in a huge trust recession, uh, if you will.
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Um, and we're experiencing a constant chronic and, and acute stressors, um, from personal, collective and cultural levels.
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And so right now, um, we don't, we don't need another corporate program.
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We don't need to six Sigma this, like we need a cohesive science, evidence-based, uh, approach.
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And that's what this is.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I think, and I love trust works because I'm halfway through the course, but I love how, um, I think you really break that down in a really great way, you know, and I think it really helps hold you honest to like, you know, like, I mean, for myself, you know, like, I'm like, okay, I wanna make sure, like, as I'm talking about, like trust over other people, are my behaviors today trustworthy, you know, like as a partner to like, you know, as a friend, you know, like.
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Because it's self and other.
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Right.
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So I, I think that's why it's like a behavior, you know, like for example, today I am gonna be honest, I'm a little, like Katie and I were talking about how we're a little bit low energy today, and like when I'm low energy, I can be a little bit, you know, like not the easiest to be around.
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I'm not like, you know.
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Not the funnest person.
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Not the funnest partner.
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You know, I was like thinking about that today because I was thinking, okay, your course.
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And I was like, how can I be a good partner today And follow through with like one thing that I told my that I told Luke that I was gonna do today.
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You know what I mean? And I was like, I'm gonna go pay her income taxes today.
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I didn't want to, but I did.
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You know? But I think, but it holds you accountable behaviorally, even when your emotions don't want to.
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And I think, yeah.
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That, that's something that's really important, especially in a world of like empathy and like empathy by design and all those things.
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There is a portion, I talk about this a lot, we talk about the nervous system is there's a portion where your, your emotions, your actual behaviors need to actually override your emotions.
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And this is very DBT.
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But, and I think that this is kind of that point is we want you, the behavior sometimes do need to override the emotions so people can, other people's nervous systems can rely on you.
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Absolutely.
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You know, I think.
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I, I try to move away from the term trustworthiness.
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Yeah.
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To tr am can, am I trustable? Yeah.
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Is, is this program trustable? Is our culture trustable? Is trust possible here? Right.
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And yeah.
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I mean, I am definitely low energy today, and when I'm low energy, I'm extra foggy.
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And so my, the first thing to go is my communications.
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I like, I'm just, it, it's hard to get words out.
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I say the wrong thing, you know? So I'm.
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You know, we use that trust skill of self-awareness.
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I'm aware that happens through trial and error.
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Lots of mistakes I've learned from.
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Mm-hmm.
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So now I know when I, I am in this more kind of hypo aroused state that I need to be extra crispy, clear with my communications, and also communicate my capacity.
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Mm-hmm.
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Like, hey, I'm here for this, but I'm just a little lower energy.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's exactly what we did today.
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And then there was some mutual understanding and Great, and that was, that was shared, right? Yeah.
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And it was accepted and, and here we are.
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And so, you know, we think about the neuroscience of trust.
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I mentioned before, we build trust at the pace of our nervous system.
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And I, every one of us has a nervous system and our bodies are brilliant.
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Mm-hmm.
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Our nervous system's automatic function is to perceive through our available senses.
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Threats and, and points of safety to then communicate to our, our internal systems.
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Are we safe here or do we need a protection? Survive when we, but it doesn't care, right? If the threat is, you know, a, an actual, you know, threat or a siren or a TikTok video or whatever like it, or an email, like it doesn't matter.
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It, they, our nervous system doesn't care 'cause it doesn't know all it's doing is based on our previous lived experiences.
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Determining is this a threat or not? And if it does perceive something as a threat, it sends that signal through our, our entire organ system, every system in our body.
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And then that's when we armor up or we guard or we, you know, get into a more that fight, flight or freeze.
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And.
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When we're working with other humans, we are working with other nervous systems.
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So that's why we can't just say trust is, you know, we, I value trust.
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Cool.
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Show me, uh, you know, trust is not this vibe.
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We just feel like, oh yeah, I feel I can feel this vibe of trust.
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Like, all right, like.
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Show me again.
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Trust should be demonstrated through our behaviors and actions consistently over time because our nervous system, how my nervous system builds trust with people is gonna be vastly different than yours and everyone else's.
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And so, especially right now during times of a, a really intense trust deficit within our workplaces with AI and technology within every system we exist in right now.
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And just the current moment of political violence like trust is, is a currency that not many are going to be willing or able to give.
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And so how are we demonstrating through our behaviors consistently, predictably, and transparently that we are trustable? Yeah.
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Revolutionary motherhood says I do DBT techniques using grounding and affirmations and self-care techniques.
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You are right.
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People have become numb, but grounding helps with this.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Thank you for that.
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I appreciate it.
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Absolutely.
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Um, and I think that that's, um.
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Yeah, I think that I, if we're gonna talk about behaviors, Sarah does a lot of DBT stuff in our app and she's like an advanced DBT like practitioner.
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Um, and I think that what you were talking about, trust and, and.
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And I think that there if, because I like to give things that are actionable.
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So, um, if you go really deep into our app, you will find Sarah's practices like the whole, all of September.
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If you go really deep into our daily signals, you'll find all of our deep DBT stuff we did, um, which is coming back by the way in February.
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I do know that that is something people really wanna get, so it's coming back.
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But, um, I think DBT practices are really important because, um, it does keep in, in, um.
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Keep in mind that, you know, I want to have healthy behaviors regardless of my emotions.
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And I think that while I don't feel safe, it's 'cause it, it overrides, I hate to say this, but like the nervous system is not always wise.
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Okay.
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Sometimes 'cause it's based off of your perception.
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Okay.
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And this is the, this is where the, the nuance of the nervous system talk really has to be said.
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In a long form content like this, because your nervous system can also, if you're like, well, that I don't like, I don't feel safe with you.
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I'm like, well, that's my best friend.
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But she's resembling behaviors that are like, I perceive as a threat because I am not in a really great trustworthy space inside of myself today.
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Well, okay.
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You know, that's perception.
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That becomes a perception issue.
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That's what I love about DBT is DBT kind of helps move through that perception so you can hold, I don't feel safe today.
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And also this person matters to me.
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Yeah, so, um.
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Really quick because I think it can be get, it can be really easy to get caught up in the acronym.
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So DBT stands for dialectical behavior therapy.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's an evidence-based, um, intervention and practice typically used in therapeutic settings.
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Mm-hmm.
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However, like motivational interviewing, which is also a evidence-based practice or an EBP.
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Both of these modalities, although typically used in therapeutic settings, are actually transferable into everyday life.
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And so that's when we start to.
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See, uh, certain practices of motivational interviewing or DBT in everyday settings because I, you know.
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DBT, especially I, you know, my background's in social work.
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I started off as a therapist.
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I am not a therapist.
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I always like to hold my billboard that I'm not, but I was trained in DBT in using it, and I agree.
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I think DBT does an incredible job at helping us build our capacity to be with nuance and paradox and that paradox of, okay, my nervous system is designed to keep me safe.
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It's interpreting this email as a threat.
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But I need to be able to decipher, is it an actual threat? Mm-hmm.
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Or is it my body? And then how do I.
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Integrate that.
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Yeah.
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And it also really helps us engage with one another when there's heightened dysregulation present so that we can take a moment so that we're not reactive, we can be responsive while still holding boundaries.
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Um, we can.
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To not raise affect, to increase reactivity.
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Um, there's so many nuggets of really great, uh, DBT practices that can help, um, that can be utilized, but it's always important to come back to the roots of the approach, which is a therapeutic modality.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So, um, yeah, so it is dialectical behavior therapy.
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Thanks for that, Katie, and I think it's good.
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One of the things that the app and integrate, we really started to do in.
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August was starting to blend DBT.
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Now we don't say it all the time anymore 'cause it's just, there's too much cogni cognitive load.
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Sure.
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But anything we do in the app is usually based off of polyvagal theory and dialectical behavior therapy.
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Okay.
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And, um, oh, sorry, I didn't mean to, that's not a new comment.
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Um, and so I think it's important because I like to name both those things because.
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I believe that the nervous system work works in collaboration with critical thinking, which is paramount at the moment all the time, but significantly in our place in history.
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We're at the moment in our on this timeline and because we need to be able, and that's what I love about trust 'cause trust is a complex system and one thing we talk about a lot, we did, I think we've done like two months worth of just being able to hold complexity in the nervous system.
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The nervous system does not by default.
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Teach you how to hold complexity.
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Okay? When you're in a survival state and that is wise, up to a point, up to the point, and then the trust thing comes in.
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And then that's why we always say it does take critical thinking to be able to do that.
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And I think when we start talking through like systems and breakdowns in workplaces, that's kind of the stuff that we need to start talking through is 'cause what I'll see some sometimes, not necessarily like in corporate, but like in wellness.
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Corporate, someone will say, well, my nervous system doesn't like that.
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Or like, that's my shadow.
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Or, you know what I mean? These places where it's just like, this is my re it's just reactivity.
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Which is fine.
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The nervous system does do reactivity, but that's not helping us in a, in safe enough situations build trust.
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So can you talk a little bit more through that nuance and like that breakdown in groups? Yeah.
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So I think.
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First and foremost, it's really important to emphasize that regulation and dysregulation are everyday functions and fluctuations of a nervous system, and there is no good by right or wrong.
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It's just what it is.
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It, it's what it is.
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So we need to stop demonizing dis dysregulation and reactivity because it's actually purposeful and necessary.
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We don't wanna always squelch, dysregulation or reactivity because if we did, we wouldn't be doing very well as human beings on this planet.
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Mm-hmm.
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Right.
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We should when, when we.
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Are seeing, you know, things like opening our news app this morning, we should get a rise from that.
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Mm-hmm.
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When we see dehumanization and violence and all these things like that should make us dysregulated because we are seeing the threat.
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If we don't or we're rushing.
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Towards regulation, um, we're missing the very function of the nervous system.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it's also important to remember, regulation does not mean calm or zen.
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Mm-hmm.
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It means neutral.
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So when we are dysregulated, whether that's hyper aroused or hypo mm-hmm.
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That fight, flight, or freeze, when we regulate, we're coming to the middle of neutrality.
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Mm-hmm.
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So that's always one of the big myths I like to debunk because right now, you know, we have everyone, you know.
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Co-opting nervous system language and somatics and all these things.
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And, and that's great that we're raising that awareness.
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Yeah.
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But I, every day I am like, oh gosh, like now what? You know, what do we have to sift through of what's true and what's not? So when we think about, when our nervous system's perceiving a threat at, to your point, just to give you an actual physiological neurobiological.
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Take from a non neuroscientist is like when we perceive a form of stress or threat or whatever it may be, our literal optical nerves in our eyes begin to.
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Mm-hmm.
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And you, you, you've, we've all heard like tunnel vision before.
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It literally becomes, if you ever think of a stressful moment or something happening or car accident, whatever, it's hard to see beyond just what's in front of you, because literally, we're in that moment of shock.
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So that's all we can see.
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Mm-hmm.
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But also our optical nerves have shrunk so that we can literally just see that.
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So we think about that physiological response to stress in the body.
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Again, and then we come into the larger scope of just an everyday workplace scenario or meeting or collaborative or whatever.
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It's going to be very hard to be engaged with people, build trust with them, or just you relate if somebody is in a heightened sense of stress or has experienced a cumulative stress.
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Mm-hmm.
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They have that shorter tunnel vision, you know, shrunken kind of ability to see beyond what's in front of them.
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And so it's, you might be try and it might, you know, it might, you might receive, you know, short answers.
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Somebody might be disengaged.
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A, a myriad of cognitive, social, relational, external behaviors may occur.
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And as humans.
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Who may be seeing or experiencing or witnessing this, we're judgy, we're naturally judgy people.
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So our first judgment would be like, what is with this person? Mm-hmm.
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Or they are, they're the worst to work with, or gosh, like they're totally checked out, um, whatever it may be.
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And we can shift to a trust focused, trauma-informed mindset by saying, okay, pause here.
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Yeah, I'm seeing a behavior, but I'm not seeing what's underneath it.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it's not necessarily our business to know that, but can I shift and choose how I engage with people based on knowing that even if I don't need to know what their personal experiences look around.
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Like, come on, you know, we're all exhausted or whatever.
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And so can we offer a little space and grace? Can we shift to be increasing? Coming back to those skills of self-awareness, communications, relationship building, critical thinking, which is the first thing to go right and come back and, and pause and start again.
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Yeah, I think that that's, I mean, those are all, I, I mean, if we're gonna talk about, and that's like a, a compassionate act.
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And, and I think that, that, if we're gonna be a little bit more value stated, those are all compassionate things.
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And also, you know, one of the things that I, I've managed several teams and have worked through them.
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And when I've seen, from my experience, when I see someone in a reactive space, I'll be like, Hmm, you know.
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Not that it's about the narrative, but I'll say things like, Hmm, I wonder even kind of like the paradigm shift of, of, of like trauma-informed care, right? Like, it's not what's wrong with you, it's what happened to you, right? And I, I kind of go back to those basic mental processes, not that I need to know, but it's almost like a, um, it's, it's just a reaffirmation of what, oh, something's happened to you this morning and there's a behavior that you're responding to and I'll just need to make sure that I.
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Uh, create some space in my day, or I need, maybe we have a meeting in four days instead of today.
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You know what I mean? That's like a more tactical thing.
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I've done great this approach, and I see Ashley in the comment, a fellow trust worker here, so this is.
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That example I shared, what you just shared is an example of choosing aligned action.
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Mm-hmm.
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Curiosity is a trauma informed leadership trust principle.
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Right? Right.
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We're choosing a mindset of curiosity, reg rather than snap judgments.
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When I choose curiosity, it allows me to pause, which gives me a, a sensation of neutrality in my nervous system, and then lead with questions.
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Rather than judgment.
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Mm-hmm.
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And that helps us shift into compassion shift into critical thinking, shift into trust.
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Whereas judgment is gonna sever trust immediately.
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Right.
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And it's probably going to activate.
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Some form of defensiveness or reactivity.
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And so when we think about, you know, these, these shifts or we see behaviors and how can we meet the behaviors with trust or trust principles, I wanna emphasize that does not mean that we are not holding people accountable.
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It does not mean we are upholding boundaries.
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And it does not mean we are coddling or doing all these things, right? Like that's where I think, again, we get into this.
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Swinging of extremes that when we talk about trust is like a soft skill.
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There's nothing soft about this.
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It's strong, it's boundary, it's accountable.
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Trauma informed leadership is all about restorative practice, accountability and boundaries and, and that's what makes up trusting relationships.
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Think of somebody you have a very high trusting relationship with.
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It's probably your partner, your parent, your friend, whomever, when there is conflict, 'cause conflict's a natural part of any relationship.
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When there's disagreement or conflict arise, trust is likely wavering, but then it's repaired and rebuilt and restored through relationship.
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And then that is where we see, you know, that ability to kind of come back and, and keep going.
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Um, growth and things like that.
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Now, for some people that may not happen, but oftentimes in strong, healthy relationships, that's what's possible because that's.
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A natural part of relationships.
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The same goes when we're building trust in other spaces of our lives.
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Yeah.
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And I like what, um, revolutionary motherhood said.
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She said it's pro process, not progress.
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And I think that that's really, um, yeah.
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I think that I, in my experiences where I don't wanna put out too many like concepts, but for lack of a better word, you know, I think when a repair is possible, which could be a whole other.
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Um, livestream, um, maybe in the future.
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Um, it is a process.
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I've done two repairs in the last 18 months, and I could like another, I could write paper, white paper on this, but what made those conditions repairable was that there were two people in a process.
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Okay? So I just wanted to say that because the one thing that turns off a repair process is someone who cannot.
275
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Stay in a process because that's relational.
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So it's like, well then there's no repair.
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It's just boundaries for self-protection and that's it.
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That's what comes to it.
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But a repair is people can move through a process of change together.
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That's kind of my rough, my rough repair process.
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Yes.
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I mean, and this is something we look at in Trust Works, is again, looking at.
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You know, how, as resisting as a strategy, like how do we resist, um, unnecessary conflict and harm, and then how do we go deeper in restorative practice specifically to a trauma-informed lens? We honor, you know, trauma-informed care is rooted in social justice framework, so it's rest, restorative practice in the social justice realm has always been applicable here, but.
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I teach it from specifically a trauma-informed approach, and restorative practices are about how do we wade in the water of nuance between conflict, hurt, discomfort, and harm.
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What we're seeing and what we typically see are people uncomfortable, but it coming out as.
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Uh, that threat or that reactivity.
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And if we can build a greater capacity to be with complexity and nuance, we then are building, uh, a deeper well of ability to, to be trustable and to sustain trust.
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And if we're able to build and sustain trust than we also know how to restore and repair it.
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Yeah.
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And that kid's really corrective, I don't know, very, very many people, the two people that I've gone through.
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Um, a successful repair process with it was corrective.
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They've never had it before.
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They've never had that.
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And I will thank Nicole Lewis Kler for having all the skills from her.
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She's a part of a jury too, from all of her, um, Brene Brown, uh, dare to Lead training.
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'cause I used every one of those skills in those, both those processes, you know? Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And it's also like practicing that acceptance.
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And this is where, you know, we think, again, we have to be thinking of trust as a behavior because mm-hmm.
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If we're just thinking about trust, like, yeah, I value trust, like trust is important and we throw around these very loose terms or surface level ideologies.
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Mm-hmm.
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We're forgetting that trust is not always going to be possible with everyone.
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So if we are not taking in account again our lens of influence, our social location, positionality, identities, and power.
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Into play of how we trust and how others trust us.
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Then we're just, we're just saying empty words.
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Right.
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That's why we have to move into, okay, if I value trust, if trust is important to what I do, to what we, what is happening, our goals are bottom line.
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How am I demonstrating that through everyday behaviors and you know, the Harvard Business Review just.
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Put out a very generic Neuroscience of Trust article the other day.
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And of course I saw it, and of course I'm like, Ugh, okay.
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But like a lot of great, you know, a lot of statistics about trust and how we're in this distrustful time and things we need to do, but it's all.
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Just good intentions and no one has ever felt trust.
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No one has ever felt safe by you saying, you can trust me.
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If anyone ever says, you can trust me, that is an immediate hell no.
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I can't.
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Right? I, until you prove to me that you are a trustable person, I'm not gonna trust you.
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So we build trust through our nervous system, the pace of our nervous system, our nervous system, love predictability.
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Consistency, repetition, pace, and connection.
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So how are we showing up every day? If we're gonna say we're gonna do something, we do it.
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If we can't do it, we explain why.
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If we make a mistake, if we missed up, if we misspoke, own it, claim it.
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Mm-hmm.
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Course correct.
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You know, checking in, having good relational skills.
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All of these things consistently and predictably, help build trust.
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And support our nervous system at the same time, the two are, are intersected and and can't be extracted from one another.
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Absolutely.
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And I think it's important 'cause when we start, when we start, think whenever I start hearing the word trust, and if you're in our app right now, every day, every day we've been doing different types of trust.
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In fact, we've been.
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Um, building up from like orientation to pattern recognition or developing patterns of familiarity.
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Okay.
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Because that is, these are all neuro, like neurobiological, pre-course to self-trust, right? So we started this month with like orientation, noticing like, what's the same around me, and then like the, and then.
333
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I can't remember the thing.
334
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I've been writing them every day, so I'm like, somewhere in the last several days.
335
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Today's it was like we're, we're repeating behaviors that we, that are familiar to us.
336
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Okay.
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That's like pre like nervous system, neurobiological baseline that your nervous system needs so you, you can trust yourself doing the same thing.
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So we're kind of building the scaffold in the body of self-trust up to a behavior.
339
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So I just then, and the point of, the reason I'm saying this is just because, to your point, Katie, about the, was the New York Times, is that what you said? Or Harvard Business.
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Harvard Business Journal, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I just wanna say this because I think every, 'cause I could, I would've eye rolled if I saw that too.
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Um, is like, it's not an intention, it is an actual neurobiological process that we do with ourselves and with other people.
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And that is why like a lot of my background is in, uh, polyvagal theory in tech, which is why I end up like.
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We do somatic ux, where we talk about how the body impacts, you know, like digital health stuff.
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Because there's all this pre behavior we have to do inside of ourselves, inside of our bo, with our bodies, with ourselves, to get us to that point of being dependable with ourselves, you know? And I think that that's why trust is a behavior is so important because it's like we've been doing all this orientation work to building up an awareness around.
347
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Behavior around ourselves so we can even form a behavior.
348
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You see what I'm saying? Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And it kind of goes again, back to the neuroscience of trust.
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Yes, we need, you know, self-trust is an important aspect and, and we talk a lot about self-trust in trust works, but it's not what you think it is.
353
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And that's often, uh, not to assume, but because we live in a very American culture, um, there is this, well, we gotta, the self-development, the self-improvement, the self, self self and the neuroscience of trust asks us to again, be critically thinking to hold both the self and the, and.
354
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Everyone around us, right? Our nervous systems learn to regulate as infants through co-regulation.
355
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Mm-hmm.
356
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We learn to trust ourselves through trusting relationships.
357
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Mm-hmm.
358
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So we don't stop co-regulating or learning to learning self-trust through trusting relationships.
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We're doing it right now.
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We're going to be doing it for the rest of our lives.
361
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So that's why we need to hold the, and both of Yes to self-trust and learning that which is a very personal journey.
362
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But also how do we also learn to build self-trust through existing trusting relationships and knowing it's not these extremes, I guess.
363
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So like a hundred percent trust or a 0% trust.
364
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Sometimes it might be 10% and that's, that might be as good as it gets for now.
365
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Yeah, absolutely.
366
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And um.
367
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And I think that that's, you know, that's the whole, that's why we always say self and co-regulation.
368
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Um, and if you don't like the word re regulation, you know, I forgot attunement is the other word that I always tell people.
369
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A lot of people dunno what that means, so I don't use it all the time.
370
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But if the word regulation, you're like, you're like, it's like an AI regulation, if that's what comes up for you right now, attunement might be a better word for you.
371
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Um, I do that to myself.
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That's the word I use for myself.
373
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So, but I do know a lot of people do associate that, so I don't always say it publicly.
374
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But, um, if self-regulation or self attunement, it's also co attunement, right? And um, and that's where like when we were talking about the behavior with, I'm dependable with myself and I show dependable, you know, um, self trusting behaviors with myself.
375
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I'm meeting myself, I'm drinking water.
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I'm doing these simple practices.
377
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Well, eventually someone's gonna ride my nervous system.
378
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'cause you always, that's why I was saying everyone's riding each other's nervous systems regardless of we, that we know it or not.
379
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Some, I have got kids that ride my nervous system.
380
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I have a partner that rides my nervous system.
381
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You know, and the more that I am able to meet myself in those times, you know, and giving, you know, it, I, I'm also signaling to them that I am dependable.
382
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Not that I'm a hundred percent.
383
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At all by any stretch of the imagination.
384
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But those behaviors that we build up do signal to other people that I am dependable and I can be in relationship with you.
385
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Absolutely.
386
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And I think what we can, you know, trust is something that's universally understood and that's why I talk about it so much.
387
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And because it is the, we know trust creates conditions for safety.
388
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That is why.
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Trauma-informed care began.
390
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It's where it's going, it's where it will continue to go.
391
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But we need to shift from principles to practice, and that's what I specialize in.
392
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And I think too, when we start to really understand trust in the neuroscience of trust.
393
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We begin to build, to widen and expand our empathy and also to take a more person-centered approach to building the capacity to say, okay, there is no perfection here.
394
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'cause perfection as a recovering perfectionist is only self-harm.
395
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So that expectation is, is irresponsible and, and.
396
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Not possible, right? It's everyday small behaviors that create large shift and impact, but that does take choice.
397
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And that's where we have to activate our autonomy and agency to say, okay, in this moment, can I practice my choice to be a trustable person in this moment? And again, if you're thinking it's going to be these grand, sweeping things.
398
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:55,830
It might be sometimes, but really it's going to be how are you engaging with people every day? What is your communication style? What is your trust style? Uh, how are you, you know, typically responding when things get, when things are calm and cool and collected versus times of heightened stress or, or, or turbulence.
399
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:59,670
Um, really looking at understanding the nervous.
400
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,200
Your own nervous system.
401
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:13,020
The nervous system of a team, a culture, because like you said, when you bring people together, you're not just looking at everybody's individual nervous system, you're looking at the whole, and that impacts culture.
402
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:17,110
You know, we can have all the policies and missions and visions and values and all those things, but.
403
00:34:17,670 --> 00:34:19,470
But that doesn't make culture.
404
00:34:19,470 --> 00:34:20,220
People do.
405
00:34:20,340 --> 00:34:26,280
And so when we take this approach, those small shifts in behavior can lead to huge impact.
406
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:33,120
We know that when trust is, when higher trust is present, people are more likely to perform better.
407
00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:37,980
They're more likely to be engaged, they're likely to stay or have better experiences.
408
00:34:38,220 --> 00:34:41,520
Therefore, all of those things lead to better outcomes.
409
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,670
Goal suc success, retention.
410
00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:46,320
Whatever it may be.
411
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,780
And so this isn't like rocket science, but it is science that we need to understand.
412
00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:57,690
It's that people science to help generate that agency to choose a different way of leading.
413
00:34:58,290 --> 00:35:11,070
So from like a nervous system, neurobiological lens, if we were to like build a scaffold, okay, it's not linear, but this does I think give a good framework about where to, when we move from like nervous system to, I'm acting out.
414
00:35:11,775 --> 00:35:19,365
I'm tape making choice, so the way that I've been taught is that you move from orientation to capacity to choice.
415
00:35:19,815 --> 00:35:19,905
Mm-hmm.
416
00:35:20,145 --> 00:35:20,935
Those are those three things.
417
00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:26,760
I just am saying that because we're on LinkedIn and LinkedIn loves process and so, and we love steps.
418
00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:31,080
These are not linear steps necessarily, but I just like back to the spiral.
419
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:31,290
Yeah.
420
00:35:31,860 --> 00:35:32,850
It's more like a spiral.
421
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:34,470
It's more like, yeah.
422
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:36,450
Orientation and then capacity.
423
00:35:36,450 --> 00:35:40,530
And then the last little layer is, um, is choice.
424
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,500
And I like to just say that because like.
425
00:35:44,115 --> 00:35:51,495
I'll be like, you know, 'cause lots of times people are like, well, just, why didn't you make a choice? I'm like, because they weren't orientated and they didn't have capacity, so you were not gonna get to a choice.
426
00:35:51,555 --> 00:36:01,725
And I think that's important for teams or for people in the corporate world because like I say, like in, in digital health, it's like in the my biggest um, not complaint.
427
00:36:03,075 --> 00:36:04,275
Is it a complaint? It's a critique.
428
00:36:04,515 --> 00:36:04,935
Okay.
429
00:36:05,085 --> 00:36:05,835
My biggest critique.
430
00:36:06,615 --> 00:36:16,635
Of digital health and the way that we make health systems is that everybody just assumes that every user has all this capacity for motivation, and that it's because they have low motivation.
431
00:36:16,635 --> 00:36:17,415
That they, that they're there.
432
00:36:17,415 --> 00:36:19,395
They can't make these choices on these apps.
433
00:36:19,635 --> 00:36:21,765
You know? It's, that's a, I don't know that person.
434
00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:22,605
I don't know that user.
435
00:36:22,605 --> 00:36:23,115
I don't know.
436
00:36:23,175 --> 00:36:23,865
I don't know who that is.
437
00:36:23,865 --> 00:36:24,645
I don't, not that person.
438
00:36:24,645 --> 00:36:25,905
I don't, Katie, you're not that person.
439
00:36:26,415 --> 00:36:28,125
But again, but it goes back to choice.
440
00:36:28,125 --> 00:36:30,975
It's like, that's why like when we get into trauma-informed care, people are like, oh, it's choice.
441
00:36:30,975 --> 00:36:31,725
I gave them a choice.
442
00:36:31,725 --> 00:36:39,600
I'm like, but were they? Did they have capacity to make a choice? Were they even orientated to the fact that they even had a choice? You know, those are all those steps.
443
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:58,950
So I just like to like say those three things because you have three factors that we need to consider before we even get to the ability to even know we have the agency to make a choice, right? And if honestly, if trust isn't present, I am not going to choose, right? Or I don't feel safe enough to choose.
444
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:59,700
So.
445
00:37:01,185 --> 00:37:17,385
That choices, there is no choice because I don't have not only the capacity, but where, what have you proven to me to trust you, to give you my health data or my information, or my survey questions or feedback.
446
00:37:17,385 --> 00:37:17,805
Right.
447
00:37:18,045 --> 00:37:25,485
What will you do with it? Again, if we're thinking about spirals like predictability, consistency, transparency, pace, connection.
448
00:37:25,695 --> 00:37:27,555
If you're coming in fast and furious.
449
00:37:28,065 --> 00:37:41,295
Too fast for me and my nervous system to process trust is at a halt, right? So we need to be thinking of those things done in that, that order consistently over time is how we build that trust.
450
00:37:41,295 --> 00:37:48,615
Whether, and that has to be done through how you physically show up, how you, you know, communicate that includes.
451
00:37:48,975 --> 00:38:00,315
You know, marketing, sales pages, all the, you know, all forms of communication, um, and how we, you know, lead, lead ourselves in those moments.
452
00:38:00,405 --> 00:38:03,525
Um, that's going to make or break trust.
453
00:38:04,485 --> 00:38:05,595
Yeah, absolutely.
454
00:38:06,075 --> 00:38:11,835
So I, I, that's why I always say, you know, the neurobiology that gets us up to a point of.
455
00:38:12,585 --> 00:38:20,625
You know, um, trust is really has to be considered when we start looking at this from like, you know, a systems based angle.
456
00:38:20,625 --> 00:38:36,015
Because I think when we, when we start to see systems break down, which is all the time right now, but like we, but that's the first thing that is, is we weren't considering the missteps along those points.
457
00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:45,210
And then the assumption of motivation, the assumption of trust, the assumption of some higher level cognitive skill that was not available or online.
458
00:38:46,830 --> 00:38:49,110
Yeah, and the humanity of it.
459
00:38:49,170 --> 00:39:02,790
Like we have to remember we're human first and so if we are not acknowledging the very human nature of the work we're doing, then right now, especially people are craving and, and.
460
00:39:03,660 --> 00:39:08,970
Quite literally, depending on humanity right now.
461
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:19,050
Like we need, people really want that authenticity and that humanity and not like, what's your favorite, you know, color or your, you know, favorite TV show kind of authenticity.
462
00:39:19,050 --> 00:39:30,630
I mean, like, how are you showing up every day yourself and holding the paradox that not everyone can safely show up as themselves right now in this, in this period of time.
463
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:32,340
And so that.
464
00:39:33,210 --> 00:39:33,690
There.
465
00:39:33,690 --> 00:39:50,790
That's why we say behavior is, again, it's not a vibe, it's a verb, right? Like you have to really demonstrate trust through not just individual action and behavior, but also then how are you creating those shared expectations across the board.
466
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:59,880
So if you run a team, a group, a course, a program, a class, you know, whatever it may be, how are you baking that into.
467
00:40:00,975 --> 00:40:02,505
The shared expectations.
468
00:40:04,575 --> 00:40:05,085
Yeah.
469
00:40:05,175 --> 00:40:10,035
And I think that that goes into, you know, what we talk about here, which is like designing systems.
470
00:40:10,095 --> 00:40:20,685
You know, um, you know, we talk, I talk a lot about, you know, motivation based design and, um, capacity based design, which is kind of my specialty.
471
00:40:21,195 --> 00:40:27,985
Um, and I think it, you know, from a cultural lens or whether when you're working, whether it's a, like I said, a.
472
00:40:28,545 --> 00:40:39,315
Technical system or people, you know, it's about creating systems that respect limits, you know, and respect, um, boundaries.
473
00:40:39,705 --> 00:40:43,155
And I, when I say boundaries, I do mean the healthy form of boundaries, not boundaries.
474
00:40:43,155 --> 00:40:49,245
Maxed as barriers or barriers, you know, so I That's what I mean, like, you're still in connection with people, but there's like a limiting factor.
475
00:40:49,965 --> 00:40:54,915
You know, we expect people's limits, capacity limits, even choice limits.
476
00:40:54,975 --> 00:40:57,315
That's a thing too, you know? Um.
477
00:40:57,375 --> 00:41:11,025
So I think that that's one of the things that we can begin to design for, build systems for, and you know, build workflow, build out workflows that do include like a recovery, you know? Absolutely.
478
00:41:11,025 --> 00:41:13,755
I think, you know, one of the first things I always.
479
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:34,530
When we talk about creating shared expectations, whenever I'm coming into, whether it's a keynote, uh, you know, a presentation, a training consultation, an audit, whatever it may be, um, one of the first tools that I am exchanging with people as a, as a shared expectation is called Practice the Pause.
480
00:41:34,770 --> 00:41:41,850
So how do we hold presence with, um, the moment? How do we literally pause before.
481
00:41:42,330 --> 00:41:59,805
We do the next thing to not only counteract that, uh, notion of we know like trauma and stress is too much, too fast, too soon by pausing, kind of counteracts that the speed of that kind of, um, reality, but also it gives us a moment just to tune in.
482
00:42:00,795 --> 00:42:14,025
And say like, what's present? What's coming up for me here? Or as a team, say, what's coming up for each of you And helps us reorient the pace, which again builds trust if we're just plowing through everything.
483
00:42:14,595 --> 00:42:21,855
Then again, unless you are in like in an emergency room, needing to conduct an actual emergency.
484
00:42:22,665 --> 00:42:44,625
Most of us are not in emergency states, so we have the ability to pause, and I'll say, as a former crisis worker, even in moments of crisis, we still have time to pause because it helps us reorient and get into understanding what's within our control, what's not within our control, and get into choice, um, like you said, into that spiral of, okay.
485
00:42:44,625 --> 00:42:48,015
Reorientation, um, I forget the second one.
486
00:42:48,015 --> 00:42:48,610
You said Capacity.
487
00:42:48,855 --> 00:42:49,725
Capacity.
488
00:42:49,725 --> 00:42:51,555
And then, you know, getting into that choice.
489
00:42:53,550 --> 00:42:54,930
Yeah, absolutely.
490
00:42:54,930 --> 00:43:06,120
I think that those, I think when we, you know, create systems, you know, and I mean, not to like to integrate Horn here, but I mean, like I said, okay, I've redone our community playbook about 5 million times over the last years.
491
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,790
I've redone it for every whole we have.
492
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:18,000
And you know, one of the things that, 'cause we're talking about leadership, you know, is that, you know, we did design our affinity group for conflict.
493
00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:20,040
'cause we know that there will be, and boy have we.
494
00:43:20,355 --> 00:43:28,635
Gotten our, you know, we, we've, you know, we've, we've definitely had some systematic things we've had to work through in the last two years, and it's made us all the more stronger.
495
00:43:28,635 --> 00:43:34,845
But I'm ha I'm proud of us for designing with that, knowing that that will be a reality.
496
00:43:34,845 --> 00:43:46,365
Eventually, not a hope, but it's like at some point, some, at some point in time, someone will misstep or something, or make a mistake or whatever, and we're gonna have to.
497
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,470
You know, have some compassionate pauses.
498
00:43:49,950 --> 00:43:52,680
We're gonna have to have some repair conversation.
499
00:43:52,890 --> 00:44:15,630
We've done all of those in the last two years, you know, um, just because we're in a really polarizing time and when we're in a polarizing time, I just think it's really great to have those systems built in place because one of the things that I get questions a lot about is how do you hold a system together when there's constant change? And Katie and I were just talking about this yesterday and I was like, if I could write a white paper, I would write a white paper about.
500
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,780
Holding a, holding a structure together when systems are collapsing and yeah, I.
501
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:34,830
I really believe that that's an important skill right now that we need to have in our culture is not planning for when con, or, sorry, not hoping conflict doesn't happen, but preparing the practice for when it does happen.
502
00:44:35,970 --> 00:44:36,330
Yeah.
503
00:44:36,330 --> 00:44:39,510
And preparing our nervous system to be with conflict.
504
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:48,900
Like I, four years ago, I went through a really significant truss rupture that was not, not unre, it was not repairable and.
505
00:44:49,650 --> 00:44:57,780
The reason why it was not repairable was a year and a half earlier, this person broke trust with me.
506
00:44:58,260 --> 00:45:06,690
Um, made some lifestyle and life changes to demonstrate change, and then committed to saying, I'm gonna do better.
507
00:45:06,690 --> 00:45:07,620
I'm gonna change this.
508
00:45:07,620 --> 00:45:09,870
I'm gonna change this, and I believe people can change.
509
00:45:09,870 --> 00:45:15,480
So I gave them the chance and then witnessed them completely.
510
00:45:16,155 --> 00:45:20,595
Not mean that at all, not make any effort and just repeat the same behaviors.
511
00:45:20,895 --> 00:45:28,635
And when I said this relationship is done, they, this was like a professional relationship and they were shocked.
512
00:45:28,665 --> 00:45:32,115
I'm like, there's no, there's no trust left.
513
00:45:32,355 --> 00:45:40,035
And there's at this point no trust that I will ever feel like I can give to this to you or this relationship.
514
00:45:40,035 --> 00:45:40,125
And.
515
00:45:41,805 --> 00:45:55,365
The pattern was a lot of words and a lot of performance and not a lot of action, and there was a huge misalignment and you know, that that matters.
516
00:45:55,365 --> 00:45:58,515
That you know, like people are, especially right now.
517
00:45:59,625 --> 00:46:04,845
Are paying attention to what people are saying and not saying people are paying attention to what you're doing and not doing.
518
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:05,160
Yeah.
519
00:46:05,205 --> 00:46:09,885
And that's not to freak people out or put you into a freeze response.
520
00:46:09,915 --> 00:46:14,355
It's to say, okay, like if conflict, I'm a very conflict averse person.
521
00:46:14,355 --> 00:46:16,515
I, I was raised that way, like.
522
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,110
Childhood trauma, all those things.
523
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:33,660
So I know that I need extra support, extra work around when conflict happens because my nervous system still after years of therapy, still gets activated and I want to deflect in a certain way.
524
00:46:33,690 --> 00:46:40,950
But now I have worked on that personally so that I can be with it in when situations arise.
525
00:46:41,310 --> 00:46:43,860
Um, and that.
526
00:46:44,565 --> 00:46:45,735
So important.
527
00:46:45,735 --> 00:47:00,915
If we, you know, in any work we're doing is that like we can't dance around these things and hope they don't happen and throw some toxic positivity on it or another, you know, corporate training and think we, you know, we're going to fix things.
528
00:47:00,915 --> 00:47:04,455
Like we need to actually get in it and like, you know, take or leave her.
529
00:47:04,485 --> 00:47:06,555
Like Brene Brown says like, we need to get into the arena.
530
00:47:06,585 --> 00:47:08,950
We need to rumble, we need to be with this stuff.
531
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:11,010
Yeah.
532
00:47:11,010 --> 00:47:15,030
And, um, I just wanna do a shout out 'cause I've been, because I'm gonna shout out to Nicole here.
533
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:15,660
I think I talked about her.
534
00:47:15,870 --> 00:47:21,480
Nicole has a great trust, sorry, a great, uh, dare to lead facilitator for the for, for Brene Brown.
535
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,225
Take her for what she's worth was, you know, there's.
536
00:47:23,955 --> 00:47:27,525
Edges and there's, you know, there's edges and there's light, is what I say.
537
00:47:27,645 --> 00:47:32,025
So, um, you know, but I will say that is one thing that has been helpful.
538
00:47:32,055 --> 00:47:36,615
I've u we have used some of her tactics, uh, for helping work with conflict.
539
00:47:36,615 --> 00:47:46,485
And the one thing that I took away in real life and from pr, from theory, from learning that is you will never know how you are in adult conflict until you are in adult conflict.
540
00:47:48,415 --> 00:47:56,910
Like you can script it out all you want to, but until you're getting the life experience, you will not know until you are in it.
541
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:06,900
You know? And the best way, and not that you should like obviously like create conflict, just to have experience, but I think that that's like the point is, is like you can take all of those trainings.
542
00:48:06,900 --> 00:48:07,890
You can, that's like one of those things.
543
00:48:07,890 --> 00:48:13,305
You can take the trainings, you can do the nonviolent communication and um, you will still.
544
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:20,790
Have to meet yourself in conflict without the regulation of nonviolent communication as an accessible 100%.
545
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:21,900
Absolutely.
546
00:48:22,860 --> 00:48:27,450
I will tell you, I'm the most direct communicator in a conflict situation 'cause I've learned to be that way.
547
00:48:27,810 --> 00:48:34,800
And, um, anyway, it doesn't always work well, it works well in certain situations, but not all of them, you know, 100%.
548
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,300
So you don't know who you, how you are until you're in it.
549
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:40,030
That's why I'm always like.
550
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:51,210
Unless you're in an abusive situation, then obviously that's different, but conflict and, but the problem I think with conflict and our discomfort with conflict for a lot of us when we were little, conflict was abusive.
551
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,445
So now it's hard for our nervous systems to register when it's just human difference.
552
00:48:56,705 --> 00:48:57,125
Mm-hmm.
553
00:48:57,205 --> 00:48:57,325
Versus.
554
00:48:58,995 --> 00:49:00,435
Oh my gosh, the tiger is chasing me.
555
00:49:01,185 --> 00:49:07,965
Yeah, I mean, you should probably have a whole month devoted to the neuroscience of conflict, because that's a whole thing.
556
00:49:07,971 --> 00:49:14,385
But again, if again, we're not, obviously I'm, I'm, I'm think that disclaimer made Julie is really important.
557
00:49:14,385 --> 00:49:22,995
Like, we're not talking about toxicity or abuse or power, power and control in that manner, like everyday typical con human conflict.
558
00:49:23,685 --> 00:49:27,315
If there's a foundation of trust, you're gonna be able to move through that.
559
00:49:27,675 --> 00:49:29,775
It's gonna be sticky because we're human.
560
00:49:29,775 --> 00:49:31,965
It's always gonna be sticky, but.
561
00:49:32,535 --> 00:49:43,545
We're, you're going to have, if you come at it from a neuro nervous system approach, a trauma informed approach, you're going to be a, a to ensure that conflict doesn't result in harm.
562
00:49:44,205 --> 00:50:00,345
You're going to be able to move through that conflict with each person's humanity intact, and you are more likely to restore trust and even, um, strengthen it because you are, have done those things to ensure that you're collaborating and power sharing.
563
00:50:00,735 --> 00:50:08,745
On the conflict, whatever resolution or whatever it may be, so that it, whatever happened or didn't happen, doesn't happen again.
564
00:50:08,955 --> 00:50:24,705
So when you have these foundations or use a framework like trust, work, trust, um, in what we teach in trust works, like all of that becomes a lot easier or less sticky or at least a little more, um, supported.
565
00:50:25,755 --> 00:50:28,905
I think a roadmap is what people, a lot of times we need a hundred percent.
566
00:50:28,905 --> 00:50:30,045
I think we just need roadmap.
567
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:31,500
You know mm-hmm.
568
00:50:31,585 --> 00:50:31,845
For it.
569
00:50:31,965 --> 00:50:32,475
And I, yeah.
570
00:50:32,475 --> 00:50:35,655
And you do have a really good one in, in, um, interest works as well.
571
00:50:36,435 --> 00:50:48,975
So, um, anyway, um, if there's any questions in like the next five minutes, feel free to roll them through as Katie and I kind of round up happy to answer questions as, or, you know, or we'll get them in the comments later.
572
00:50:48,975 --> 00:50:52,725
But if there's anybody in your life that like has a question, we're happy to have it.
573
00:50:52,965 --> 00:50:55,725
Katie, is there anything coming up where you're like, um.
574
00:50:56,115 --> 00:50:58,695
Well, I mean, we have, we, we, we are gonna be doing this as a workshop.
575
00:50:58,695 --> 00:51:03,795
By the way, it was like, um, on January the 30th, around noon, um, Eastern time.
576
00:51:03,795 --> 00:51:05,420
Is that right? I think it's noon, yes.
577
00:51:05,425 --> 00:51:07,095
Um, it's in, it's in the app.
578
00:51:07,095 --> 00:51:08,355
So we're gonna be going deeper into this.
579
00:51:08,445 --> 00:51:15,285
Katie's gonna be going deeper into these practices, so feel free to sign up in the app, um, which I'll put in the comments after I'm off of here.
580
00:51:15,675 --> 00:51:23,205
Um, but Katie, is there anything else that you're kind of working up, brewing up for 2026? Yeah, so many things.
581
00:51:23,205 --> 00:51:26,625
Um, so definitely join us in the workshop, um, on January 30th.
582
00:51:26,685 --> 00:51:32,115
Uh, I, you know, I have a free guide right now if you're just finding it.
583
00:51:32,115 --> 00:51:41,295
Really, you're no noticing your nervous system and the nervous system of your team, organization, um, just not knowing how to talk during these turbulent times.
584
00:51:41,295 --> 00:51:47,085
I do have a free guide based on the trust model that you can download, um, just to help kind of walk you through.
585
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:55,530
These kind of tried and true, um, strategies that I use every day that people who utilize trust and trained in this use every day.
586
00:51:55,770 --> 00:51:59,730
Um, so that's available and I can link that here in the chat too.
587
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,010
Um, obviously trust works.
588
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,380
The certification program's always open for enrollment.
589
00:52:04,380 --> 00:52:16,680
If you're ready to really, um, have a, you know, access to a framework, get trained, certified, um, and, and actively use this and, um, yeah, lots of keynotes.
590
00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:19,710
Workshops and things in the works for 2026.
591
00:52:19,740 --> 00:52:22,980
Um, so more to come.
592
00:52:23,490 --> 00:52:23,910
Cool.
593
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:35,010
And, you know, if kind of moving through trust is kind of a new thing for you, I will say like, that's the big part of why we launched the app was having daily practices where we practice from different lenses.
594
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,830
It'll, it'll be DBT or like polyvagal theory.
595
00:52:38,490 --> 00:52:39,870
Like it's usually one of those two.
596
00:52:39,870 --> 00:52:40,920
We're on a spectrum.
597
00:52:41,340 --> 00:52:41,820
Um.
598
00:52:42,345 --> 00:52:43,365
That we're working through.
599
00:52:43,575 --> 00:52:54,135
Um, that's like, we have daily practices every day that runs through a spiral, but like little daily, two to five minute practices where it's just like orientation to, um, you know, yourself in different ways.
600
00:52:54,135 --> 00:52:54,855
Or another person.
601
00:52:54,855 --> 00:52:56,835
So we do have co-regulation exercises in there too.
602
00:52:57,225 --> 00:52:59,895
So, you know, go check that out if that's like new for you.
603
00:52:59,895 --> 00:53:04,635
But we have it every day in an app function because we realize that it is something.
604
00:53:05,115 --> 00:53:05,955
That is ongoing.
605
00:53:05,955 --> 00:53:11,325
And so it's in a structure, in a system that helps us build that capacity, that that's why we launched an app.
606
00:53:11,325 --> 00:53:24,410
That is one of the reasons why we operationalized it that way is so we could start small and then, and, and actually as integrate as a whole, we work in a spiral where like that's sometimes for some people that's our f that's like their first step, but that's sometimes that's where they stick with us for a long time.
607
00:53:25,635 --> 00:53:28,035
Is they'll work in the body, they'll work in the nervous system.
608
00:53:28,305 --> 00:53:44,205
And then the more capacity we have in those in choice, the more that we move into like workshops and, um, you know, into our affinity group, which is more like professional development, um, um, choice making, so, and self-leadership, um, and co-regulation and professional realm.
609
00:53:44,235 --> 00:53:47,175
So anyway, so that's kind of how our platform runs.
610
00:53:47,595 --> 00:53:49,905
Um, and then Katie's one of our partners on that.
611
00:53:50,505 --> 00:53:51,735
Outer layer of the spiral.
612
00:53:52,245 --> 00:53:54,195
So, um, anyway.
613
00:53:54,195 --> 00:53:55,275
Well, thank you everybody.
614
00:53:55,275 --> 00:53:56,625
Thanks for being on here, Katie.
615
00:53:57,015 --> 00:53:58,260
Um, yeah, thanks for having me.
616
00:53:58,365 --> 00:54:02,835
Yeah, put your, if you can put your, um, website and all that stuff in the comments, that would be great.
617
00:54:03,285 --> 00:54:03,555
Great.
618
00:54:03,615 --> 00:54:05,085
Yeah, I can definitely do that.
619
00:54:05,475 --> 00:54:06,825
Thanks for being here, everybody.
620
00:54:07,305 --> 00:54:08,235
Bye Ashley.
621
00:54:09,735 --> 00:54:10,335
All right.
622
00:54:11,295 --> 00:54:11,655
All right.
623
00:54:11,655 --> 00:54:12,495
See you all later.