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The opinions expressed on
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this program
represent the viewpoints
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of individual authors
or contributors,
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and do not necessarily reflect
those of Troy University.
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I mean,
this is in conversations,
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a joint production of Troy
Trojan Vision and the manual H.
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Johnson center
for Political Economy.
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Now, here's
your host, doctor Dan Sutter.
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Hello, and welcome
to the Conversations.
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I'm your host, Doctor Deans,
out of the Johnson Center
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for Political Economy
at Troy University.
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Once upon a time, businesses
did not take stances
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on controversial political
and cultural issues of the day.
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Instead,
they stuck to selling goods
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and services
and tried to avoid alienating
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potential customers
or employees.
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All of this has changed
with the arrival
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of what has been termed wall
capitalism.
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Is it possible
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for the business world
to rediscover
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the traditional virtues
of commerce
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that enable cooperation
among the diverse people
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without forcing anyone's
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values on others,
and which helped create
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the prosperity
of contemporary America?
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The Johnson Center
has been trying to do this
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through our Free Enterprise
Scholars program.
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How has it been going?
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Well, that's what we'll be
talking about on today's show.
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And help me with this.
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I'm joined by doctor alum,
and I'm the Grady Rogier
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professor and executive director
of the Johnson Center
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and two of Troy University's
most outstanding students,
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who are proud to claim as free
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enterprise scholars Mackenzie
Ansley and Ethan Cherono.
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Well,
welcome to your conversations.
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And so let's start with
Ethan and Mackenzie.
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Tell us a little bit
about yourselves,
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your background,
how you got to Troy University
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and what you're studying.
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Yes, sir.
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So, my name is Ethan.
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Jonah.
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I'm a senior
majoring in economics
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and minoring
in American politics.
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Mackenzie and I are actually
from the same hometown.
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Congratulated.
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she graduated with my younger
brother,
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class few, a few below me.
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And, on campus.
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I'm a Supreme Court
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justice for the, SGA
Student Government Association.
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I'm involved
with the free enterprise
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Scholars program
and outside of campus,
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currently,
public affairs and policy
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intern
for the state finance director.
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And I've done a community,
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community indications internship
with Governor Colby's office
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and some other internships here
and there.
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And I can also add
that you were recently selected
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as, the outstanding economics
major for 2024.
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So, Mackenzie,
tell us a little about yourself.
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Yeah.
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So my name is McKinsey Anthony,
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and I am from Smith Station,
Alabama.
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Seven's Ethan, I'm
a sophomore global business
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major with a concentration
in risk management insurance.
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I work on campus
at the tutoring center
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as an economics
and writing tutor.
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And on campus,
I also serve on the Supreme
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Court and SGA and off campus.
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I am really involved at a local
summer camp that I work at.
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Awesome, great.
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So, tell
us a little bit about the,
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our Free
Enterprise Scholars program.
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Tell people when we got started
and what we're trying to do.
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And the big picture here.
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Well, Dan, as you remember,
well, during the summer of 2022,
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we both read vehicle
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Almost Always Woke
Ink and thought
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this would be
a really interesting text around
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which
to build a complete program.
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And we realized that
a lot of young people and others
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were considering things
like profits to be negative,
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and we thought,
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we need to really tell the story
about the positive
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things that businesses do
to show young
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people and society writ large
that profits are, in fact, good,
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that firms can't hire,
people, cannot provide benefits,
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cannot contribute to
the community, cannot contribute
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to philanthropy
without earning profits.
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And so we developed this program
and we launched it
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in August 2022.
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And the rest is history.
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And Mackenzie and Ethan, it's
one of our first,
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free enterprise scholars.
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So tell us a little bit
about your thoughts
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coming into this program.
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Where did you think
when you saw the,
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the, email that you received
and describing this or inviting
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you to participate?
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so I had
taken kind of a gap year, did
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some of my, work for a,
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the spring semester leading up
to the, 2022 fall year.
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I did an internship
with the Alabama
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State Legislature
and getting back onto campus.
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I really wanted to get involved
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because I hadn't had much
opportunity.
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My freshman year
because of Covid.
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and, Doctor Mendenhall
sent out this email,
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to the business school saying,
hey, we have this new program.
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So it's kind of, about,
traditional business practices
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and mixing
in that political elements.
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I was really interested and
then jumped on it right away.
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And here we are today.
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Yeah, it's about the same story
for me, too.
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But I was an incoming freshman
when I started the program,
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and I knew I wanted
to get involved in campus
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and doing something.
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And when I read the email,
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I thought this program sounded
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like something that I'd be
really interested in.
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So I definitely applied.
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Awesome, awesome.
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So you've both been great
in the program.
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So, Allan,
tell us a little bit more.
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You mentioned the
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some of these traditional
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virtues of, of commerce,
but as we go beyond that,
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what are some of these, virtues
that we're trying to,
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just share with our students?
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Well, in general,
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commerce and exchange have
a civilizing effect on people.
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They minimize irrational
and violent behavior,
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and they encourage or facilitate
cooperation and exchange.
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And that is so important
in a society
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that is politically fractured.
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I actually think that business
as historically practiced
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could do a lot to
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heal some
of the wounds in society
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and to to, to work towards
overcoming
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some of the fracture
in our political climate
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right now
where we are so divided,
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business
is something that can unite us.
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And so we certainly had one
speaker, Chuck salvo,
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who did a great job bringing,
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you know,
we talk about some of the work
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that he does, helping, in some
of these fractured workplaces.
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But, you know, so
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Ethan and Mackenzie, what,
what do you see
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as some of these,
virtues of capitalism?
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Are we, convincing you
that, you know,
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for instance, businesses
always are making the world
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a better place simply
because consumers
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want to buy their products,
and, and,
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you know,
workers want to work there.
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So while what do you guys think?
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I'd say
just as an economics students.
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One the first thing you learn
is incentives really do matter
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and it motivates people's,
actions.
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And in today's
political context,
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people are always worried
about stakeholder capitalism and
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and not so much
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about shareholder capitalism,
which takes into consideration
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how businesses do have to care
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about their customers,
their suppliers,
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the people that are competing
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against them,
the people that they work with,
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they have to take all these
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into consideration,
consider their incentives
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and why they do want to work
with this business.
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stakeholder capitalism,
kind of I would say,
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is the same thing,
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but they try to make it sound
a little bit more fancy and
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throw more political elements
into it.
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When, traditional business
practices are certainly civil
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and, and promote, cooperation
amongst individuals.
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Yeah.
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I mean,
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you have to treat
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your customers with respect
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because they don't
have to buy your product.
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And so and necessarily you
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you have to treat customers
and employees with respect
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or they will not do business
with you.
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So, Mackenzie,
what have you learned
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some of these lessons about,
cooperation?
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Oh, we've talked a lot
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about business,
the modes of business,
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the classical
theories of business.
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And I would definitely say
that coming into this program,
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I had never thought about really
anything towards business.
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I just hadn't
given it a second thought.
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And I guess
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freely talking about the risks
involved with business,
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investing, starting a business,
working for a business.
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I would say
that I've never really thought
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about that before,
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but it was really interesting to
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look at it
from a different perspective
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and to think about it
in terms of scarce resources.
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If someone is starting
a business,
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they're doing, their duty
to society
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by providing a good or service,
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and people couldn't
get otherwise.
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And there are trade offs.
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So they could have gotten a job
somewhere else.
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But instead they're choosing
to serve the customers
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by giving them what they want.
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And that in and of itself
is ethical and good.
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And that's why
we should protect business.
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And, you know, many times
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in small towns,
I mean, they're helping to
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make that community stronger
by hiring people
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or giving better options for,
for shopping in their,
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in their community.
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So now, two of the topics
that we've spoken about a lot
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over the last couple of years
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are ESG and, and then,
corporate stakeholder ism.
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And I think we mentioned
stakeholders, a little bit.
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But, Alan, tell us a little bit
about these
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two important issues,
because you've also
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ESG has been a topic
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for some of our research
that that we've been working on.
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So it's a it's
an important topic
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and one
that we've tried to convey here
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and, and cover it in the Free
Enterprise Scholars Program.
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Well, ESG
is a wide ranging subject,
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but to put it as simplistically
as possible, ESG is an acronym
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that stands for Environmental,
social and governance,
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and it refers particularly to
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the investment
and financial services space
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and to the practice
of accounting for,
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accounting for non-financial
standards and factors
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when firms
allocate capital or assess risk.
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So stakeholder
ism is just one element of ESG.
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Even you made an excellent point
earlier
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talking about stakeholder holder
ism, which presumes that under
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the traditional shareholder
model of corporate governance,
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firms are not already
considering
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the interests
and concerns of clients,
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customers, employees, suppliers,
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when in fact
every successful business
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under the traditional
shareholder model has to account
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for the interests
of all those constituencies
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if it wants to remain
successful as a firm.
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And so I believe that
the stakeholder
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model is sort of predicated
on a false assumption.
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And again,
this is just one element of ESG.
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There are numerous other,
factors to consider,
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whether you're looking under
the E or the S prong.
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And in general, ESG pushes
corporations
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into controversial politics
rather than
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freeing them up
to focus on their business
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00:10:41,407 --> 00:10:44,410
and doing what businesses
need to do to succeed.
256
00:10:44,510 --> 00:10:48,047
In the financial part
or in financial markets, really
257
00:10:48,381 --> 00:10:50,449
sort of works, almost use,
258
00:10:50,449 --> 00:10:53,119
weaponize access
to finance, which,
259
00:10:53,119 --> 00:10:55,955
all businesses need because
all business is run on credit.
260
00:10:55,955 --> 00:10:58,758
They can't run a business
without banking services.
261
00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:01,761
And and really trying to use
that as a leverage
262
00:11:02,161 --> 00:11:03,029
over businesses
263
00:11:03,029 --> 00:11:06,165
to sort of force
them to advance certain issues.
264
00:11:06,232 --> 00:11:06,799
That's right.
265
00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:07,933
And I do not believe
266
00:11:07,933 --> 00:11:11,837
ESG could succeed if it were
just a purely private endeavor.
267
00:11:12,138 --> 00:11:15,908
It's because so much of ESG
investing takes place
268
00:11:16,142 --> 00:11:20,513
with pension money,
with, with, government bonds,
269
00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:23,516
with sovereign wealth funds,
in short, with government money
270
00:11:23,616 --> 00:11:28,287
that it's able to even have
any sort of traction whatsoever.
271
00:11:28,654 --> 00:11:31,090
Absent
that government investment,
272
00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:33,125
I don't think ESG can compete
against the market.
273
00:11:33,125 --> 00:11:35,428
And in fact,
we see study after study now
274
00:11:35,428 --> 00:11:37,363
coming from the private sector,
coming
275
00:11:37,363 --> 00:11:41,300
from financial institutions,
showing that ESG, actually
276
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:43,636
ESG weighted
portfolios, ESG index funds
277
00:11:43,636 --> 00:11:47,506
actually underperform the market
and it just makes sense
278
00:11:47,506 --> 00:11:51,510
because if,
the market is about diversifying
279
00:11:51,844 --> 00:11:55,147
your investments
to mitigate risk, well,
280
00:11:55,581 --> 00:11:58,718
if you narrow the range
of possible investments,
281
00:11:58,718 --> 00:12:00,920
then just mathematically,
it's impossible
282
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,022
to compete against the market
because you have,
283
00:12:03,022 --> 00:12:06,358
fewer industries
and fields in which to invest.
284
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,828
And so,
285
00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:11,230
Mackenzie and
Ethan, what are some of your,
286
00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:14,266
things that you guys
have learned from our program
287
00:12:14,266 --> 00:12:17,336
about these these topics of ESG
and stakeholder ism?
288
00:12:20,940 --> 00:12:22,742
We can see,
289
00:12:22,742 --> 00:12:24,243
well.
290
00:12:24,243 --> 00:12:26,445
coming into this program,
I think the biggest thing
291
00:12:26,445 --> 00:12:30,349
that we've talked to a lot about
has definitely been ESG
292
00:12:30,349 --> 00:12:35,054
in terms of, why?
293
00:12:37,089 --> 00:12:39,024
In terms of fiduciary duty,
294
00:12:39,024 --> 00:12:41,260
I would say that's
probably been the biggest thing.
295
00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:44,396
fiduciary duty means that
if you have control of people's
296
00:12:44,396 --> 00:12:45,731
money, it's in your best.
297
00:12:45,731 --> 00:12:46,432
It's in
298
00:12:46,432 --> 00:12:49,401
you have to do with their money
what's in their best interests.
299
00:12:49,535 --> 00:12:51,937
So I would say that
thinking about it
300
00:12:51,937 --> 00:12:55,107
in terms of corporate officers
having control
301
00:12:55,107 --> 00:12:58,110
of millions of dollars
of their investors money,
302
00:12:58,110 --> 00:13:01,213
that it is their duty to invest
in, in ways
303
00:13:01,213 --> 00:13:05,151
that maximize their
return on investment, not on,
304
00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:09,421
movements or,
305
00:13:09,421 --> 00:13:11,023
I, I can't think of the word
306
00:13:11,023 --> 00:13:15,861
initiatives
that promote certain ideologies
307
00:13:15,861 --> 00:13:19,465
or other ways of thinking,
because at the end of the day,
308
00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:24,370
their main job should be to
maximize shareholder investment,
309
00:13:24,770 --> 00:13:29,942
not to come out their ideas
or beliefs.
310
00:13:29,942 --> 00:13:33,179
And by doing that, they're
violating their fiduciary duty.
311
00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:36,448
And that's not
what business is for.
312
00:13:36,448 --> 00:13:38,050
And it's
313
00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:40,953
not supposed to take other
people's money and then use it
314
00:13:40,953 --> 00:13:41,654
in ways
315
00:13:41,654 --> 00:13:44,890
that they haven't explicitly
authorized you to, to use that.
316
00:13:45,457 --> 00:13:46,759
Ethan.
317
00:13:46,759 --> 00:13:49,261
I kind of piggybacking off
what Mackenzie said,
318
00:13:49,261 --> 00:13:51,564
I think there's no argument
that people,
319
00:13:51,564 --> 00:13:55,701
want to make money, that you
like more money than less money.
320
00:13:55,868 --> 00:13:57,303
And when you include this
321
00:13:57,303 --> 00:14:00,606
environmental, social governance
aspect, you're allowing
322
00:14:00,606 --> 00:14:04,076
these corporate managers or,
or firm investors to take,
323
00:14:04,376 --> 00:14:07,213
take people's money
and put them into projects or,
324
00:14:07,213 --> 00:14:10,216
initiatives
that are more controversial.
325
00:14:10,983 --> 00:14:11,584
so I think,
326
00:14:13,586 --> 00:14:15,454
allowing people to
327
00:14:15,454 --> 00:14:17,690
be confident
that their money is being spent
328
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:20,860
in ways or invested in ways
that will secure higher profits
329
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,995
and not necessarily
social causes.
330
00:14:22,995 --> 00:14:25,598
is a big part of what we've
talked about in the program.
331
00:14:25,598 --> 00:14:30,035
so ESG has been
a big part of the,
332
00:14:30,035 --> 00:14:32,037
the program that we talked about
and, stakeholder
333
00:14:32,037 --> 00:14:33,939
capitalism,
like documenting, has mentioned.
334
00:14:33,939 --> 00:14:34,473
And, Dan,
335
00:14:34,473 --> 00:14:38,043
if I may, there are other
vehicles for investors who wish
336
00:14:38,277 --> 00:14:41,714
to put their money towards
social or environmental causes,
337
00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:44,483
and they are charity.
They are philanthropy.
338
00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:47,486
You don't have to put your money
in an index fund
339
00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:50,389
in order to try to make
the world a better place,
340
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:53,392
according to your vision of what
that ought to be.
341
00:14:53,792 --> 00:14:56,762
And and and to be clear,
you know,
342
00:14:56,762 --> 00:14:59,698
as investors are free
to invest their money
343
00:14:59,698 --> 00:15:02,468
however they want and absolutely
have strong values.
344
00:15:02,468 --> 00:15:04,203
And they think that
their business
345
00:15:04,203 --> 00:15:06,939
or their financial investments
should be consistent
346
00:15:06,939 --> 00:15:08,807
with those values
and not invest in things
347
00:15:08,807 --> 00:15:11,877
that they don't personally think
make the world a better place.
348
00:15:12,011 --> 00:15:14,346
They're free to use their money
however they want,
349
00:15:14,346 --> 00:15:16,282
and at some level,
you could expect to see
350
00:15:16,282 --> 00:15:19,618
financial markets aggregate,
you know, offer products
351
00:15:19,618 --> 00:15:22,121
that would sort of appeal
to such investors.
352
00:15:22,121 --> 00:15:24,356
But, you know, the issues that
353
00:15:24,356 --> 00:15:28,093
that we are dealing with with
ESG are far more complicated.
354
00:15:28,127 --> 00:15:29,929
And with that than that,
it's like
355
00:15:29,929 --> 00:15:32,631
is of using
some other people's money,
356
00:15:32,631 --> 00:15:34,466
without explicit consent.
357
00:15:34,466 --> 00:15:35,968
And like,
as you said, Mackenzie,
358
00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:39,772
they consider this issue of,
fiduciary duty and
359
00:15:40,339 --> 00:15:43,609
and so, yeah, it's important
to, to understand
360
00:15:43,609 --> 00:15:45,878
exactly what's going on with
some of these, these issues.
361
00:15:45,878 --> 00:15:49,748
So, Alan, tell us a little bit
about some of the different
362
00:15:49,748 --> 00:15:53,018
speakers and some of the ways
we've gone about,
363
00:15:53,819 --> 00:15:57,456
you know, advancing both these,
these ideas.
364
00:15:57,589 --> 00:15:58,157
Sure.
365
00:15:58,157 --> 00:16:01,493
Some of our recent speakers
have been, Alexandra Hudson,
366
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:02,995
who spoke about,
367
00:16:02,995 --> 00:16:06,098
the importance of civility
to society writ large.
368
00:16:06,332 --> 00:16:09,101
Andy Alabaster of the Heritage
Foundation, one of,
369
00:16:09,101 --> 00:16:13,172
Troy University's distinguished
alumni, Jay Nordlinger
370
00:16:13,172 --> 00:16:15,207
from the National Review
Institute.
371
00:16:15,207 --> 00:16:18,143
Ben Johnson, a professor
from the University of Florida,
372
00:16:18,143 --> 00:16:21,880
spoke about corporate law and
issues related to corporations.
373
00:16:22,481 --> 00:16:24,450
Richard Adler Cominco,
who is now leading
374
00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:25,851
the University of Wisconsin
375
00:16:25,851 --> 00:16:28,854
to go, joined Scott
on the School of Economic,
376
00:16:29,288 --> 00:16:30,823
Thought and Research.
what is it?
377
00:16:30,823 --> 00:16:32,858
The School of Economic
Thought and Leadership
378
00:16:32,858 --> 00:16:35,127
at Arizona State University.
379
00:16:35,127 --> 00:16:38,397
Anson Friedrichs,
the president of Stripe Asset
380
00:16:38,397 --> 00:16:42,801
Management, Andy
Pozner, the former, CEO of Ski
381
00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:45,804
Restaurants, Scott
Shepherd of the National Center
382
00:16:45,804 --> 00:16:47,039
for Public Policy Research.
383
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,042
These are just a few examples of
the people who came and spoke.
384
00:16:50,042 --> 00:16:50,976
But we also had,
385
00:16:50,976 --> 00:16:54,913
generous organizations
donate books for us to read.
386
00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:56,715
For example,
the American Enterprise
387
00:16:56,715 --> 00:16:58,617
Institute, donated copies
388
00:16:58,617 --> 00:17:01,453
of Morality of Markets Arguments
for the Free Market System,
389
00:17:01,453 --> 00:17:03,255
which was edited
by Yuval of then,
390
00:17:03,255 --> 00:17:06,892
the Cato Institute,
donated copies of the case
391
00:17:07,126 --> 00:17:09,228
for Shareholder Capitalism,
which we read.
392
00:17:09,228 --> 00:17:11,530
And then we've read books by,
Jim Hardison,
393
00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:14,533
seven Deadly Economics
Sins and Honorable Business.
394
00:17:14,533 --> 00:17:18,470
These are really excellent
books, and I know the students
395
00:17:19,238 --> 00:17:23,242
worked really hard,
to read week in and week out
396
00:17:23,242 --> 00:17:24,643
because we either
397
00:17:24,643 --> 00:17:27,513
we either did a reading group,
which you directed, of course,
398
00:17:27,513 --> 00:17:30,649
or we had a guest lecturer
come in every single week,
399
00:17:30,649 --> 00:17:31,984
with maybe the exception
of spring
400
00:17:31,984 --> 00:17:35,921
break in the spring and maybe,
Thanksgiving break in the fall.
401
00:17:36,155 --> 00:17:40,526
So this is a rigorous program,
and it's a very deep commitment
402
00:17:40,526 --> 00:17:42,961
that the students
make to the program.
403
00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:47,433
And, I'm just excited about how
well it's gone and how much
404
00:17:47,433 --> 00:17:48,667
the students have excelled.
405
00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:49,968
I've seen them grow.
406
00:17:49,968 --> 00:17:52,137
I've watched them learn.
407
00:17:52,137 --> 00:17:55,174
that has been an exciting
experience for me personally.
408
00:17:55,707 --> 00:17:57,776
Given have also been able to,
409
00:17:57,776 --> 00:17:59,945
as you see
from some of these pictures,
410
00:17:59,945 --> 00:18:01,246
have an opportunity
411
00:18:01,246 --> 00:18:02,948
to interact
with some of these speakers and
412
00:18:02,948 --> 00:18:05,350
here on a one on one basis, or,
413
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:08,720
not just in our discussion,
but,
414
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,224
you know, outside of that,
at a dinner or whatever.
415
00:18:12,224 --> 00:18:14,293
So and I think those
are really important things
416
00:18:14,293 --> 00:18:17,129
to add to the student
learning experience as well.
417
00:18:17,129 --> 00:18:17,796
Absolutely.
418
00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:20,799
I think getting to know
these speakers on a personal,
419
00:18:20,833 --> 00:18:24,470
one on one basis leads
to a very interesting learning
420
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:27,873
experience, experiences,
but also to opportunities.
421
00:18:27,873 --> 00:18:28,841
I know we've had,
422
00:18:28,841 --> 00:18:31,844
at least one student gain
an important internship
423
00:18:32,211 --> 00:18:35,214
through, interactions
with a guest lecturer.
424
00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:38,884
So, Ethan,
and what have been some of
425
00:18:38,884 --> 00:18:40,919
the highlights
that the uses of,
426
00:18:40,919 --> 00:18:43,922
our speakers that we've had,
coming in to talk to the group.
427
00:18:44,756 --> 00:18:47,392
I've really enjoyed being able
to sit down with these speakers,
428
00:18:47,392 --> 00:18:48,127
listen to them,
429
00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:51,130
one of them, Ben Johnson,
talking about, corporate,
430
00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:53,432
activities
and things like that,
431
00:18:53,432 --> 00:18:55,134
and then going to dinner
with him afterwards
432
00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:57,436
and just being able
to pick his brain on,
433
00:18:57,436 --> 00:18:58,637
I mean, the classes
he's teaching.
434
00:18:58,637 --> 00:19:03,208
And I believe I would say that,
things of that nature
435
00:19:03,208 --> 00:19:05,344
and to just like the book club
in general,
436
00:19:05,344 --> 00:19:05,944
it's kind of
437
00:19:05,944 --> 00:19:08,147
when we first found out
that we were going to be reading
438
00:19:08,147 --> 00:19:10,849
books is a little daunting,
adding another two books
439
00:19:10,849 --> 00:19:14,720
onto the, schedule of classes
and things of that nature.
440
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,022
But they've actually been
really interesting books.
441
00:19:17,022 --> 00:19:17,589
And it's easy.
442
00:19:17,589 --> 00:19:18,423
It's kind of,
443
00:19:18,423 --> 00:19:21,927
a page flip, not necessarily
thriller or anything,
444
00:19:21,927 --> 00:19:24,830
but it's still interesting
being able to read these books
445
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:27,199
and kind of compare them
to the real world
446
00:19:27,199 --> 00:19:29,902
and things
that I'm seeing at work as well.
447
00:19:29,902 --> 00:19:30,903
Yeah, I think that
448
00:19:30,903 --> 00:19:32,271
both of those, books
449
00:19:32,271 --> 00:19:33,138
that you mentioned, Alan,
450
00:19:33,138 --> 00:19:36,575
that we covered this last
semester, were very well done.
451
00:19:36,575 --> 00:19:40,479
And I commend, AEI and Cato for
for putting those out.
452
00:19:40,579 --> 00:19:42,481
So because would have been
some of your,
453
00:19:42,481 --> 00:19:46,118
highlights in the area of the
speakers, that, that stand out.
454
00:19:46,552 --> 00:19:46,952
Yeah.
455
00:19:46,952 --> 00:19:51,590
So, her name's escapes me, but
she wrote The Soul of Civility.
456
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:53,525
That's Alexandra
Hudson. Let's see. Hudson.
457
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:55,160
Hudson was very interesting.
458
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,762
I think she's been
my favorite speaker
459
00:19:56,762 --> 00:19:58,163
that we posted so far,
460
00:19:58,163 --> 00:20:00,299
just because I thought
we had a really good
461
00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:03,869
in-depth conversation
about what being civil means.
462
00:20:04,303 --> 00:20:07,105
And we sat down at dinner
with her in the conference room,
463
00:20:07,105 --> 00:20:08,807
and that was just
a really great experience.
464
00:20:08,807 --> 00:20:09,308
And she
465
00:20:09,308 --> 00:20:12,377
we have copies of her book,
and I have read some of it,
466
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:14,146
and I thought
it was really interesting.
467
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:17,115
but I would also just say that
468
00:20:17,115 --> 00:20:18,183
the biggest highlight for me
469
00:20:18,183 --> 00:20:20,652
was probably like
finding community
470
00:20:20,652 --> 00:20:21,753
in the business school
471
00:20:21,753 --> 00:20:23,055
and specifically in the econ
472
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:25,023
department, because I'm
not an economics major,
473
00:20:25,023 --> 00:20:26,992
but being able
to build connections
474
00:20:26,992 --> 00:20:28,160
with economics professors
475
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,030
and other econ students has been
a really good experience.
476
00:20:32,030 --> 00:20:33,699
And just getting more context
477
00:20:33,699 --> 00:20:36,501
of my business education
from all the books we've read,
478
00:20:36,501 --> 00:20:38,604
I would say that
it's been really helpful
479
00:20:38,604 --> 00:20:39,304
going through
480
00:20:39,304 --> 00:20:41,240
my introductory business classes
481
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,408
and having a greater
understanding of what all
482
00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:44,876
we're talking about in class.
483
00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:47,479
So this program is definitely
helped me in that aspect.
484
00:20:47,479 --> 00:20:49,681
And so you think it's added
485
00:20:49,681 --> 00:20:52,718
some things beyond anything
you're getting in classes? Yes.
486
00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:56,321
And Ethan,
you I see what you said.
487
00:20:56,321 --> 00:20:57,322
it's it's been two
488
00:20:57,322 --> 00:20:59,625
principal classes
and kind of go into it
489
00:20:59,625 --> 00:21:01,360
knowing
more than the other students.
490
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,963
Do you hear about these,
shareholder capitalism concepts?
491
00:21:04,963 --> 00:21:07,733
And some of the other students
are struggling to grasp it.
492
00:21:07,733 --> 00:21:08,500
We're meeting weekly
493
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,135
and discussing these things
with one another
494
00:21:10,135 --> 00:21:12,838
and kind of picking each other's
brain, picking your,
495
00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:16,141
YouTubes brain about the topics
and conversations as well.
496
00:21:16,141 --> 00:21:20,012
So I think overall it's
been a beneficial, club to be
497
00:21:20,012 --> 00:21:20,412
a part of
498
00:21:21,613 --> 00:21:23,515
it. And so we've been
499
00:21:23,515 --> 00:21:25,217
talking recently about,
you know,
500
00:21:25,217 --> 00:21:28,220
perhaps expanding our program
next year to,
501
00:21:28,353 --> 00:21:31,156
hey, guess after the students
go through the a reading group
502
00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:34,393
to perhaps try and get them
involved in research
503
00:21:34,393 --> 00:21:36,328
on these important topics
because like,
504
00:21:36,328 --> 00:21:38,030
that's another,
I think, important thing
505
00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:41,033
that that we as a university
should be trying to do is as,
506
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,202
introduce,
our students to, to research,
507
00:21:44,202 --> 00:21:46,605
because that's what we do
as professors.
508
00:21:46,605 --> 00:21:48,707
And it's what you know,
got many of us
509
00:21:48,707 --> 00:21:52,544
into, our career because we,
we love doing research.
510
00:21:52,911 --> 00:21:54,379
And, and so I think it's
511
00:21:54,379 --> 00:21:56,648
really important to
to try and introduce
512
00:21:56,648 --> 00:21:59,651
students to do research
and then allow them to also
513
00:21:59,751 --> 00:22:02,254
not just read about,
but actually do something
514
00:22:02,254 --> 00:22:04,556
about some of these issues
of the day.
515
00:22:04,556 --> 00:22:05,324
Right?
516
00:22:05,324 --> 00:22:06,391
That's exactly right.
517
00:22:06,391 --> 00:22:09,127
And the Johnson Center
has been inundated
518
00:22:09,127 --> 00:22:13,198
by requests for research because
this program is so unique.
519
00:22:13,732 --> 00:22:15,801
It is on the map, so to speak.
520
00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:18,170
People are noticing
what we're doing,
521
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:21,740
and we're working in a space
in which there happens
522
00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:24,710
to be a high demand
for research.
523
00:22:24,943 --> 00:22:28,513
So allowing the students
who go through the program to,
524
00:22:28,547 --> 00:22:31,016
as it were,
a graduate into a research
525
00:22:31,016 --> 00:22:34,019
position is helpful
not just for them
526
00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:34,753
and that
527
00:22:34,753 --> 00:22:34,986
they are
528
00:22:34,986 --> 00:22:38,156
now equipped to do research
and they actually get
529
00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:39,124
to do research.
530
00:22:39,124 --> 00:22:43,628
But also, it's helpful
to all the people out there
531
00:22:43,628 --> 00:22:46,398
seeking more information,
more data
532
00:22:46,398 --> 00:22:50,001
about, for example, ESG
or about the shareholder versus
533
00:22:50,001 --> 00:22:52,371
the stakeholder model
of corporate governance.
534
00:22:52,371 --> 00:22:55,974
And thanks to the generous
donations from private donors,
535
00:22:56,241 --> 00:22:59,578
we're able to take this program
to the next level.
536
00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:02,547
the Bradley Foundation
has been particularly generous.
537
00:23:02,547 --> 00:23:06,151
We have, a new, donor
and the ACC Foundation,
538
00:23:06,685 --> 00:23:08,687
the acting Institute
has been contributing.
539
00:23:08,687 --> 00:23:09,554
I mentioned
540
00:23:09,554 --> 00:23:13,158
AEI and the Cato Institute
providing books for the program.
541
00:23:13,558 --> 00:23:15,794
And then locally here
we have Alpha,
542
00:23:15,794 --> 00:23:17,529
which has provided
some funding for the program,
543
00:23:17,529 --> 00:23:19,865
and then just numerous
private donors
544
00:23:19,865 --> 00:23:22,334
just giving one small gift
here, one small gift
545
00:23:22,334 --> 00:23:25,337
there, has enabled us
to grow the program
546
00:23:25,437 --> 00:23:28,740
to fund the students, to provide
books for the students,
547
00:23:28,974 --> 00:23:30,442
to give them scholarship money,
548
00:23:30,442 --> 00:23:31,710
for participating
in the program.
549
00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:34,112
And now to take it
to the next level
550
00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:37,115
where we will have
not just a new,
551
00:23:37,282 --> 00:23:40,485
a new, core of students
going through the program
552
00:23:40,485 --> 00:23:44,122
as it has been operating
at the last two years.
553
00:23:44,389 --> 00:23:47,426
But, have new positions
in which we have the people
554
00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:49,127
who have gone
through the program
555
00:23:49,127 --> 00:23:52,764
start doing research and start,
I'll start really
556
00:23:53,532 --> 00:23:56,535
taking their learning and
understanding to the next level.
557
00:23:56,902 --> 00:24:00,872
Well, in our this year,
of free enterprise, scholars
558
00:24:00,872 --> 00:24:03,141
have worked on some op eds
to discuss something.
559
00:24:03,141 --> 00:24:07,012
So, you know, Ethan,
you were working on an op ed
560
00:24:07,012 --> 00:24:10,782
related to, unions, which seems
particularly timely.
561
00:24:10,782 --> 00:24:11,183
Today.
562
00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:14,419
We are in Alabama since there
there's a unionization drive
563
00:24:14,419 --> 00:24:18,590
at the, Mercedes
plant outside of Tuscaloosa.
564
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:21,793
So tell us a little bit about
what you've been, right about.
565
00:24:22,294 --> 00:24:25,130
so that's primarily
the reason I did decide to
566
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:26,965
write this paper is working
in Montgomery.
567
00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:28,900
It's kind of been a hot topic.
568
00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:30,535
We've seen the governor
put out a press
569
00:24:30,535 --> 00:24:32,103
release about labor unions.
570
00:24:32,103 --> 00:24:35,340
the commerce secretary,
the leaders of the House
571
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:37,042
and Senate have, put up things.
572
00:24:37,042 --> 00:24:38,610
So I thought it'd be interesting
to kind of dive
573
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:39,811
into this topic and
574
00:24:39,811 --> 00:24:40,645
and figure out
575
00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:43,882
the historical context of labor
unions, how at one point
576
00:24:43,882 --> 00:24:47,719
they were, in the benefit
of the workers because we didn't
577
00:24:47,719 --> 00:24:51,556
have these laws or regulations
in place, to protect workers.
578
00:24:51,556 --> 00:24:56,194
But over time, we have over
180 federal regulations,
579
00:24:56,194 --> 00:24:58,830
regulating governing workplace
activities,
580
00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:02,801
relationship between employers,
employees, and standard
581
00:25:02,801 --> 00:25:05,804
health and safety,
guidelines for workplaces.
582
00:25:05,804 --> 00:25:10,775
So I think over time they have
been beneficial for workers.
583
00:25:10,775 --> 00:25:13,778
But in today's current context
and political climate,
584
00:25:13,879 --> 00:25:17,516
I don't really see
the need for labor unions.
585
00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:21,453
I think they get more in the way
and try to uplift a few while
586
00:25:21,820 --> 00:25:24,723
taking away jobs for some of
the ones that really do need it.
587
00:25:24,723 --> 00:25:26,458
Some of the younger,
588
00:25:26,458 --> 00:25:29,928
people, people that do not have
the skill set necessary.
589
00:25:30,562 --> 00:25:31,796
so I thought it was
really interesting.
590
00:25:31,796 --> 00:25:35,367
I, attended a, colloquium
in Vermont
591
00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,402
last summer,
and we read Milton and Rose
592
00:25:37,402 --> 00:25:40,005
Friedman's
book, Free to Choose.
593
00:25:40,005 --> 00:25:41,773
And he talked a lot
about labor unions
594
00:25:41,773 --> 00:25:44,175
and how they, they uplift
some of the few
595
00:25:44,175 --> 00:25:46,344
in the community,
but take away a lot from others.
596
00:25:46,344 --> 00:25:47,145
So I just
597
00:25:47,145 --> 00:25:49,981
I like learning more
about labor unions and kind of
598
00:25:49,981 --> 00:25:51,650
putting my perspective
and spin on it,
599
00:25:51,650 --> 00:25:54,953
why they're not necessarily
needed in today's society.
600
00:25:55,987 --> 00:25:58,490
And and Mackenzie,
you were wrong about it.
601
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:00,292
So you made it to Cuba.
602
00:26:00,292 --> 00:26:01,960
So tell us a little about your
603
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,530
trip to Cuba and what you saw
about socialism and socialism
604
00:26:05,764 --> 00:26:07,732
failures up close and personal.
605
00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:07,999
Yeah.
606
00:26:07,999 --> 00:26:09,901
So I had the opportunity
to study
607
00:26:09,901 --> 00:26:13,572
abroad in Cuba last December,
and it was a great experience.
608
00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:16,107
But one of my biggest
takeaways from that
609
00:26:16,107 --> 00:26:17,809
was that their economic system
610
00:26:17,809 --> 00:26:19,444
and their government has failed
them.
611
00:26:19,444 --> 00:26:22,814
life in Cuba is very different
than it is here.
612
00:26:22,814 --> 00:26:25,350
There are no public amenities.
613
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:28,420
there are people everywhere
in worse
614
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:31,723
poverty than I've ever seen
in this country.
615
00:26:31,723 --> 00:26:33,592
So I think that
616
00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:37,028
the socialist system in Cuba
really contributes to that.
617
00:26:37,395 --> 00:26:40,065
They don't support businesses,
they don't support innovation
618
00:26:40,065 --> 00:26:41,833
or entrepreneurship.
And it shows.
619
00:26:41,833 --> 00:26:44,202
so that's what I wrote about.
620
00:26:44,202 --> 00:26:49,174
and talking about the
lacking of Cuba and its economy
621
00:26:49,174 --> 00:26:52,177
and how its citizens
suffer as a result.
622
00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:55,580
And I mean, lots of,
college age students have
623
00:26:55,580 --> 00:26:58,316
a high opinion of socialism,
so perhaps they should go.
624
00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:02,587
I mean, Cuba's only 90 miles off
the coast of Florida, and so
625
00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:06,291
perhaps they could go see,
how how socialism work
626
00:27:06,358 --> 00:27:09,661
is working out in in person
there, right, absolutely.
627
00:27:10,462 --> 00:27:11,396
And so,
628
00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:13,131
Alan,
tell us a little bit about,
629
00:27:13,131 --> 00:27:14,065
you know, I guess
630
00:27:14,065 --> 00:27:16,034
it was touch a little bit
what we wanted going forward.
631
00:27:16,034 --> 00:27:17,869
But you know what,
what do you see
632
00:27:17,869 --> 00:27:20,405
in, in terms of the future
for our program here
633
00:27:20,405 --> 00:27:23,408
and what might be the doing
over the next year or so?
634
00:27:23,975 --> 00:27:26,478
Well, I think we are looking
at hosting
635
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:29,481
an event
regarding ESG in the fall,
636
00:27:29,881 --> 00:27:32,651
and we will be focusing
a lot more on research.
637
00:27:32,651 --> 00:27:35,654
I know you and I
are both working together
638
00:27:35,787 --> 00:27:38,790
on articles regarding ESG.
639
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:42,127
I've got a special issue of the
Alabama Lawyer, which is the
640
00:27:42,293 --> 00:27:44,462
magazine of the State
Bar publication
641
00:27:44,462 --> 00:27:47,365
that's coming out
on, on, specifically ESG.
642
00:27:47,365 --> 00:27:49,868
It's a corporate law issue,
but we're focusing on ESG.
643
00:27:49,868 --> 00:27:53,705
And I know, we are going to be
bringing together researchers
644
00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:56,708
from other institutions, both
Thinktanks and universities,
645
00:27:56,841 --> 00:28:00,679
to start coordinating,
and producing more research.
646
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:03,682
And, of course, our students
are going to be a central part
647
00:28:03,715 --> 00:28:06,718
of this experience as well,
which will be exciting.
648
00:28:06,918 --> 00:28:07,218
Yeah.
649
00:28:07,218 --> 00:28:08,753
And I really look forward to
650
00:28:08,753 --> 00:28:11,756
bringing some new students
into the program and continuing
651
00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:15,026
to, to work with, some of
our university's
652
00:28:15,026 --> 00:28:17,362
most outstanding,
undergraduates.
653
00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:20,298
So, again, thank you. McKenzie.
654
00:28:20,298 --> 00:28:21,466
And thank you, Ethan,
655
00:28:21,466 --> 00:28:24,769
for participating our program
and for coming on this, show.
656
00:28:25,403 --> 00:28:27,272
And thank you all
for joining us.
657
00:28:27,272 --> 00:28:30,341
Join us again next time
for another conversation.
658
00:28:33,511 --> 00:28:35,714
This has been conversations,
659
00:28:35,714 --> 00:28:39,050
a joint production of Troy
Turgeon Vision and the Manuel H.
660
00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:42,120
Johnson Center for Political
Economy at four University.
661
00:29:12,884 --> 00:29:14,119
So, Dan,
you really just want to shoot
662
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,122
a promo on camera two
with everybody in the shot?
663
00:29:17,555 --> 00:29:18,289
if you wanted me,
664
00:29:18,289 --> 00:29:19,791
I was going
to do a little promo,
665
00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:22,727
but you guys can get up
if you want, or they'll.
666
00:29:22,727 --> 00:29:25,029
They'll probably be able
to just zoom in on me
667
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:26,064
and talk to me there.
668
00:29:26,064 --> 00:29:29,067
Be I can.
669
00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:30,602
any one. Thing.
670
00:29:30,602 --> 00:29:33,605
All right.
671
00:30:04,035 --> 00:30:05,170
I think I got this figured out.
672
00:30:05,170 --> 00:30:08,173
Stand by.
673
00:30:28,326 --> 00:30:29,994
Is it possible to reclaim
674
00:30:29,994 --> 00:30:32,997
the traditional virtues of
commerce for American business,
675
00:30:33,031 --> 00:30:34,599
or our business and finance now
676
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,302
to be employed
as tools of social engineering?
677
00:30:37,302 --> 00:30:39,304
I'm Doctor Dan
Snyder of the Johnson Center
678
00:30:39,304 --> 00:30:41,606
for Political Economy
at Troy University.
679
00:30:41,606 --> 00:30:43,341
Join me
on the next conversations
680
00:30:43,341 --> 00:30:44,676
when we'll be talking
about our free
681
00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:46,077
enterprise Scholars program.
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:01,534
The opinions expressed on
2
00:00:01,534 --> 00:00:03,303
this program
represent the viewpoints
3
00:00:03,303 --> 00:00:05,572
of individual authors
or contributors,
4
00:00:05,572 --> 00:00:08,641
and do not necessarily reflect
those of Troy University.
5
00:00:09,976 --> 00:00:14,347
I mean,
this is in conversations,
6
00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:18,118
a joint production of Troy
Trojan Vision and the manual H.
7
00:00:18,151 --> 00:00:20,787
Johnson center
for Political Economy.
8
00:00:20,787 --> 00:00:23,790
Now, here's
your host, doctor Dan Sutter.
9
00:00:28,228 --> 00:00:30,230
Hello, and welcome
to the Conversations.
10
00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:32,632
I'm your host, Doctor Deans,
out of the Johnson Center
11
00:00:32,632 --> 00:00:35,135
for Political Economy
at Troy University.
12
00:00:35,135 --> 00:00:37,771
Once upon a time, businesses
did not take stances
13
00:00:37,771 --> 00:00:40,774
on controversial political
and cultural issues of the day.
14
00:00:40,940 --> 00:00:42,609
Instead,
they stuck to selling goods
15
00:00:42,609 --> 00:00:45,011
and services
and tried to avoid alienating
16
00:00:45,011 --> 00:00:47,480
potential customers
or employees.
17
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:49,282
All of this has changed
with the arrival
18
00:00:49,282 --> 00:00:51,751
of what has been termed wall
capitalism.
19
00:00:51,751 --> 00:00:52,552
Is it possible
20
00:00:52,552 --> 00:00:54,454
for the business world
to rediscover
21
00:00:54,454 --> 00:00:56,589
the traditional virtues
of commerce
22
00:00:56,589 --> 00:00:59,659
that enable cooperation
among the diverse people
23
00:00:59,659 --> 00:01:00,894
without forcing anyone's
24
00:01:00,894 --> 00:01:03,363
values on others,
and which helped create
25
00:01:03,363 --> 00:01:06,366
the prosperity
of contemporary America?
26
00:01:06,499 --> 00:01:08,435
The Johnson Center
has been trying to do this
27
00:01:08,435 --> 00:01:10,937
through our Free Enterprise
Scholars program.
28
00:01:10,937 --> 00:01:12,605
How has it been going?
29
00:01:12,605 --> 00:01:14,774
Well, that's what we'll be
talking about on today's show.
30
00:01:14,774 --> 00:01:15,975
And help me with this.
31
00:01:15,975 --> 00:01:18,878
I'm joined by doctor alum,
and I'm the Grady Rogier
32
00:01:18,878 --> 00:01:22,182
professor and executive director
of the Johnson Center
33
00:01:22,382 --> 00:01:25,285
and two of Troy University's
most outstanding students,
34
00:01:25,285 --> 00:01:26,653
who are proud to claim as free
35
00:01:26,653 --> 00:01:30,223
enterprise scholars Mackenzie
Ansley and Ethan Cherono.
36
00:01:30,590 --> 00:01:32,659
Well,
welcome to your conversations.
37
00:01:32,659 --> 00:01:36,563
And so let's start with
Ethan and Mackenzie.
38
00:01:36,563 --> 00:01:38,164
Tell us a little bit
about yourselves,
39
00:01:38,164 --> 00:01:41,034
your background,
how you got to Troy University
40
00:01:41,034 --> 00:01:42,936
and what you're studying.
41
00:01:42,936 --> 00:01:43,336
Yes, sir.
42
00:01:43,336 --> 00:01:44,571
So, my name is Ethan.
43
00:01:44,571 --> 00:01:45,004
Jonah.
44
00:01:45,004 --> 00:01:46,706
I'm a senior
majoring in economics
45
00:01:46,706 --> 00:01:48,475
and minoring
in American politics.
46
00:01:48,475 --> 00:01:51,144
Mackenzie and I are actually
from the same hometown.
47
00:01:51,144 --> 00:01:52,345
Congratulated.
48
00:01:52,345 --> 00:01:53,880
she graduated with my younger
brother,
49
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,215
class few, a few below me.
50
00:01:55,215 --> 00:01:58,118
And, on campus.
51
00:01:58,118 --> 00:01:59,519
I'm a Supreme Court
52
00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:02,922
justice for the, SGA
Student Government Association.
53
00:02:03,356 --> 00:02:04,424
I'm involved
with the free enterprise
54
00:02:04,424 --> 00:02:06,793
Scholars program
and outside of campus,
55
00:02:06,793 --> 00:02:09,028
currently,
public affairs and policy
56
00:02:09,028 --> 00:02:10,497
intern
for the state finance director.
57
00:02:10,497 --> 00:02:12,132
And I've done a community,
58
00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:15,635
community indications internship
with Governor Colby's office
59
00:02:15,635 --> 00:02:18,238
and some other internships here
and there.
60
00:02:18,238 --> 00:02:20,773
And I can also add
that you were recently selected
61
00:02:20,773 --> 00:02:25,478
as, the outstanding economics
major for 2024.
62
00:02:25,778 --> 00:02:27,947
So, Mackenzie,
tell us a little about yourself.
63
00:02:27,947 --> 00:02:28,314
Yeah.
64
00:02:28,314 --> 00:02:30,083
So my name is McKinsey Anthony,
65
00:02:30,083 --> 00:02:32,919
and I am from Smith Station,
Alabama.
66
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,989
Seven's Ethan, I'm
a sophomore global business
67
00:02:35,989 --> 00:02:39,159
major with a concentration
in risk management insurance.
68
00:02:39,559 --> 00:02:42,295
I work on campus
at the tutoring center
69
00:02:42,295 --> 00:02:44,831
as an economics
and writing tutor.
70
00:02:44,831 --> 00:02:47,600
And on campus,
I also serve on the Supreme
71
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,970
Court and SGA and off campus.
72
00:02:50,970 --> 00:02:55,008
I am really involved at a local
summer camp that I work at.
73
00:02:55,642 --> 00:02:56,676
Awesome, great.
74
00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:59,712
So, tell
us a little bit about the,
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00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,482
our Free
Enterprise Scholars program.
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00:03:02,482 --> 00:03:05,084
Tell people when we got started
and what we're trying to do.
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00:03:05,084 --> 00:03:07,020
And the big picture here.
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00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:11,324
Well, Dan, as you remember,
well, during the summer of 2022,
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we both read vehicle
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00:03:12,825 --> 00:03:14,961
Almost Always Woke
Ink and thought
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00:03:14,961 --> 00:03:17,797
this would be
a really interesting text around
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00:03:17,797 --> 00:03:20,800
which
to build a complete program.
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00:03:21,201 --> 00:03:25,505
And we realized that
a lot of young people and others
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were considering things
like profits to be negative,
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00:03:29,809 --> 00:03:31,010
and we thought,
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00:03:31,010 --> 00:03:33,446
we need to really tell the story
about the positive
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00:03:33,446 --> 00:03:35,915
things that businesses do
to show young
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00:03:35,915 --> 00:03:39,485
people and society writ large
that profits are, in fact, good,
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that firms can't hire,
people, cannot provide benefits,
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00:03:43,923 --> 00:03:46,960
cannot contribute to
the community, cannot contribute
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00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,963
to philanthropy
without earning profits.
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00:03:50,396 --> 00:03:53,433
And so we developed this program
and we launched it
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00:03:53,433 --> 00:03:55,435
in August 2022.
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00:03:55,435 --> 00:03:57,470
And the rest is history.
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00:03:57,470 --> 00:04:00,573
And Mackenzie and Ethan, it's
one of our first,
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00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:01,674
free enterprise scholars.
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00:04:01,674 --> 00:04:03,843
So tell us a little bit
about your thoughts
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00:04:03,843 --> 00:04:04,911
coming into this program.
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00:04:04,911 --> 00:04:06,212
Where did you think
when you saw the,
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00:04:06,212 --> 00:04:10,083
the, email that you received
and describing this or inviting
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00:04:10,083 --> 00:04:11,217
you to participate?
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00:04:12,518 --> 00:04:14,921
so I had
taken kind of a gap year, did
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00:04:14,921 --> 00:04:17,457
some of my, work for a,
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00:04:17,457 --> 00:04:21,227
the spring semester leading up
to the, 2022 fall year.
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00:04:21,527 --> 00:04:23,162
I did an internship
with the Alabama
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State Legislature
and getting back onto campus.
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00:04:25,999 --> 00:04:27,233
I really wanted to get involved
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00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:28,534
because I hadn't had much
opportunity.
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00:04:28,534 --> 00:04:31,104
My freshman year
because of Covid.
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00:04:31,104 --> 00:04:33,406
and, Doctor Mendenhall
sent out this email,
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00:04:33,406 --> 00:04:36,376
to the business school saying,
hey, we have this new program.
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00:04:36,376 --> 00:04:41,047
So it's kind of, about,
traditional business practices
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00:04:41,047 --> 00:04:43,182
and mixing
in that political elements.
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00:04:43,182 --> 00:04:45,652
I was really interested and
then jumped on it right away.
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00:04:45,652 --> 00:04:48,354
And here we are today.
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00:04:48,354 --> 00:04:50,323
Yeah, it's about the same story
for me, too.
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00:04:50,323 --> 00:04:54,327
But I was an incoming freshman
when I started the program,
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00:04:54,627 --> 00:04:56,596
and I knew I wanted
to get involved in campus
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00:04:56,596 --> 00:04:58,064
and doing something.
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00:04:58,064 --> 00:04:59,832
And when I read the email,
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00:04:59,832 --> 00:05:01,334
I thought this program sounded
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00:05:01,334 --> 00:05:02,935
like something that I'd be
really interested in.
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00:05:02,935 --> 00:05:04,771
So I definitely applied.
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00:05:04,771 --> 00:05:05,571
Awesome, awesome.
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00:05:05,571 --> 00:05:08,107
So you've both been great
in the program.
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00:05:08,107 --> 00:05:10,009
So, Allan,
tell us a little bit more.
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00:05:10,009 --> 00:05:11,611
You mentioned the
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some of these traditional
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00:05:12,445 --> 00:05:16,182
virtues of, of commerce,
but as we go beyond that,
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what are some of these, virtues
that we're trying to,
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just share with our students?
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00:05:21,354 --> 00:05:22,522
Well, in general,
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00:05:22,522 --> 00:05:26,526
commerce and exchange have
a civilizing effect on people.
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They minimize irrational
and violent behavior,
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00:05:30,963 --> 00:05:35,368
and they encourage or facilitate
cooperation and exchange.
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00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:38,571
And that is so important
in a society
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00:05:38,571 --> 00:05:40,273
that is politically fractured.
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00:05:40,273 --> 00:05:43,643
I actually think that business
as historically practiced
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00:05:44,043 --> 00:05:46,312
could do a lot to
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00:05:47,313 --> 00:05:49,415
heal some
of the wounds in society
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00:05:49,415 --> 00:05:53,619
and to to, to work towards
overcoming
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00:05:53,619 --> 00:05:56,789
some of the fracture
in our political climate
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00:05:56,789 --> 00:05:58,691
right now
where we are so divided,
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00:05:58,691 --> 00:06:01,694
business
is something that can unite us.
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00:06:02,261 --> 00:06:07,233
And so we certainly had one
speaker, Chuck salvo,
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00:06:07,233 --> 00:06:08,968
who did a great job bringing,
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00:06:08,968 --> 00:06:10,737
you know,
we talk about some of the work
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00:06:10,737 --> 00:06:14,640
that he does, helping, in some
of these fractured workplaces.
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00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:15,808
But, you know, so
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00:06:15,808 --> 00:06:18,578
Ethan and Mackenzie, what,
what do you see
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00:06:18,578 --> 00:06:21,381
as some of these,
virtues of capitalism?
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00:06:21,381 --> 00:06:23,850
Are we, convincing you
that, you know,
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00:06:23,850 --> 00:06:26,619
for instance, businesses
always are making the world
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00:06:26,619 --> 00:06:28,955
a better place simply
because consumers
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00:06:28,955 --> 00:06:30,890
want to buy their products,
and, and,
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00:06:30,890 --> 00:06:32,325
you know,
workers want to work there.
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00:06:32,325 --> 00:06:34,227
So while what do you guys think?
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00:06:35,361 --> 00:06:37,096
I'd say
just as an economics students.
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00:06:37,096 --> 00:06:40,466
One the first thing you learn
is incentives really do matter
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00:06:40,466 --> 00:06:43,336
and it motivates people's,
actions.
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00:06:43,336 --> 00:06:45,438
And in today's
political context,
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00:06:45,438 --> 00:06:48,107
people are always worried
about stakeholder capitalism and
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00:06:48,107 --> 00:06:48,941
and not so much
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00:06:48,941 --> 00:06:51,878
about shareholder capitalism,
which takes into consideration
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00:06:51,878 --> 00:06:53,346
how businesses do have to care
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00:06:53,346 --> 00:06:55,815
about their customers,
their suppliers,
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00:06:55,815 --> 00:06:57,817
the people that are competing
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00:06:57,817 --> 00:06:59,952
against them,
the people that they work with,
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00:06:59,952 --> 00:07:00,987
they have to take all these
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00:07:00,987 --> 00:07:03,556
into consideration,
consider their incentives
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00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:06,559
and why they do want to work
with this business.
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00:07:06,626 --> 00:07:09,629
stakeholder capitalism,
kind of I would say,
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00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:11,531
is the same thing,
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00:07:11,531 --> 00:07:14,000
but they try to make it sound
a little bit more fancy and
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00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,768
throw more political elements
into it.
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00:07:15,768 --> 00:07:20,039
When, traditional business
practices are certainly civil
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00:07:20,039 --> 00:07:23,042
and, and promote, cooperation
amongst individuals.
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00:07:23,743 --> 00:07:23,943
Yeah.
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00:07:23,943 --> 00:07:24,110
I mean,
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you have to treat
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00:07:25,278 --> 00:07:27,013
your customers with respect
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00:07:27,013 --> 00:07:28,781
because they don't
have to buy your product.
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00:07:28,781 --> 00:07:30,616
And so and necessarily you
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00:07:30,616 --> 00:07:33,753
you have to treat customers
and employees with respect
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00:07:33,753 --> 00:07:35,621
or they will not do business
with you.
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00:07:35,621 --> 00:07:38,291
So, Mackenzie,
what have you learned
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00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:41,461
some of these lessons about,
cooperation?
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00:07:41,794 --> 00:07:43,362
Oh, we've talked a lot
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00:07:43,362 --> 00:07:45,765
about business,
the modes of business,
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00:07:45,765 --> 00:07:47,099
the classical
theories of business.
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00:07:47,099 --> 00:07:50,436
And I would definitely say
that coming into this program,
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00:07:50,436 --> 00:07:54,874
I had never thought about really
anything towards business.
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00:07:54,874 --> 00:07:56,709
I just hadn't
given it a second thought.
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00:07:56,709 --> 00:07:57,376
And I guess
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00:07:57,376 --> 00:08:00,980
freely talking about the risks
involved with business,
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00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:04,183
investing, starting a business,
working for a business.
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00:08:04,183 --> 00:08:05,418
I would say
that I've never really thought
198
00:08:05,418 --> 00:08:06,519
about that before,
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00:08:06,519 --> 00:08:08,020
but it was really interesting to
200
00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:10,156
look at it
from a different perspective
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00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:14,126
and to think about it
in terms of scarce resources.
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00:08:14,126 --> 00:08:15,428
If someone is starting
a business,
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00:08:15,428 --> 00:08:17,430
they're doing, their duty
to society
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00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:18,664
by providing a good or service,
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00:08:18,664 --> 00:08:20,500
and people couldn't
get otherwise.
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00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:21,968
And there are trade offs.
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00:08:21,968 --> 00:08:24,237
So they could have gotten a job
somewhere else.
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00:08:24,237 --> 00:08:26,472
But instead they're choosing
to serve the customers
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00:08:26,472 --> 00:08:28,140
by giving them what they want.
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00:08:28,140 --> 00:08:30,977
And that in and of itself
is ethical and good.
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00:08:30,977 --> 00:08:33,045
And that's why
we should protect business.
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00:08:33,045 --> 00:08:34,680
And, you know, many times
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00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,215
in small towns,
I mean, they're helping to
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00:08:36,215 --> 00:08:38,918
make that community stronger
by hiring people
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00:08:38,918 --> 00:08:42,355
or giving better options for,
for shopping in their,
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00:08:42,355 --> 00:08:43,289
in their community.
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00:08:43,289 --> 00:08:47,059
So now, two of the topics
that we've spoken about a lot
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00:08:47,059 --> 00:08:48,261
over the last couple of years
219
00:08:48,261 --> 00:08:52,031
are ESG and, and then,
corporate stakeholder ism.
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00:08:52,031 --> 00:08:54,367
And I think we mentioned
stakeholders, a little bit.
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00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:56,035
But, Alan, tell us a little bit
about these
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00:08:56,035 --> 00:08:58,671
two important issues,
because you've also
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00:08:58,671 --> 00:08:59,972
ESG has been a topic
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00:08:59,972 --> 00:09:02,375
for some of our research
that that we've been working on.
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00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:04,143
So it's a it's
an important topic
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00:09:04,143 --> 00:09:06,412
and one
that we've tried to convey here
227
00:09:06,412 --> 00:09:09,415
and, and cover it in the Free
Enterprise Scholars Program.
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00:09:09,448 --> 00:09:12,451
Well, ESG
is a wide ranging subject,
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00:09:12,818 --> 00:09:17,523
but to put it as simplistically
as possible, ESG is an acronym
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00:09:17,523 --> 00:09:20,960
that stands for Environmental,
social and governance,
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00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:24,163
and it refers particularly to
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00:09:24,163 --> 00:09:27,166
the investment
and financial services space
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00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:31,437
and to the practice
of accounting for,
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00:09:31,604 --> 00:09:34,674
accounting for non-financial
standards and factors
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00:09:34,807 --> 00:09:37,810
when firms
allocate capital or assess risk.
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00:09:37,977 --> 00:09:42,481
So stakeholder
ism is just one element of ESG.
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00:09:42,481 --> 00:09:44,650
Even you made an excellent point
earlier
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00:09:44,650 --> 00:09:49,188
talking about stakeholder holder
ism, which presumes that under
239
00:09:49,188 --> 00:09:52,191
the traditional shareholder
model of corporate governance,
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00:09:52,525 --> 00:09:55,528
firms are not already
considering
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00:09:55,928 --> 00:09:59,699
the interests
and concerns of clients,
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00:09:59,699 --> 00:10:02,702
customers, employees, suppliers,
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00:10:02,735 --> 00:10:05,738
when in fact
every successful business
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00:10:05,805 --> 00:10:09,642
under the traditional
shareholder model has to account
245
00:10:09,642 --> 00:10:11,911
for the interests
of all those constituencies
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00:10:11,911 --> 00:10:14,914
if it wants to remain
successful as a firm.
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00:10:15,081 --> 00:10:17,850
And so I believe that
the stakeholder
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00:10:17,850 --> 00:10:21,354
model is sort of predicated
on a false assumption.
249
00:10:21,921 --> 00:10:24,557
And again,
this is just one element of ESG.
250
00:10:24,557 --> 00:10:27,593
There are numerous other,
factors to consider,
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00:10:27,593 --> 00:10:30,596
whether you're looking under
the E or the S prong.
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00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:34,066
And in general, ESG pushes
corporations
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00:10:34,233 --> 00:10:37,236
into controversial politics
rather than
254
00:10:37,937 --> 00:10:41,407
freeing them up
to focus on their business
255
00:10:41,407 --> 00:10:44,410
and doing what businesses
need to do to succeed.
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00:10:44,510 --> 00:10:48,047
In the financial part
or in financial markets, really
257
00:10:48,381 --> 00:10:50,449
sort of works, almost use,
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00:10:50,449 --> 00:10:53,119
weaponize access
to finance, which,
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00:10:53,119 --> 00:10:55,955
all businesses need because
all business is run on credit.
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00:10:55,955 --> 00:10:58,758
They can't run a business
without banking services.
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00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:01,761
And and really trying to use
that as a leverage
262
00:11:02,161 --> 00:11:03,029
over businesses
263
00:11:03,029 --> 00:11:06,165
to sort of force
them to advance certain issues.
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00:11:06,232 --> 00:11:06,799
That's right.
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00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:07,933
And I do not believe
266
00:11:07,933 --> 00:11:11,837
ESG could succeed if it were
just a purely private endeavor.
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00:11:12,138 --> 00:11:15,908
It's because so much of ESG
investing takes place
268
00:11:16,142 --> 00:11:20,513
with pension money,
with, with, government bonds,
269
00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:23,516
with sovereign wealth funds,
in short, with government money
270
00:11:23,616 --> 00:11:28,287
that it's able to even have
any sort of traction whatsoever.
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00:11:28,654 --> 00:11:31,090
Absent
that government investment,
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00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:33,125
I don't think ESG can compete
against the market.
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00:11:33,125 --> 00:11:35,428
And in fact,
we see study after study now
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00:11:35,428 --> 00:11:37,363
coming from the private sector,
coming
275
00:11:37,363 --> 00:11:41,300
from financial institutions,
showing that ESG, actually
276
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:43,636
ESG weighted
portfolios, ESG index funds
277
00:11:43,636 --> 00:11:47,506
actually underperform the market
and it just makes sense
278
00:11:47,506 --> 00:11:51,510
because if,
the market is about diversifying
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00:11:51,844 --> 00:11:55,147
your investments
to mitigate risk, well,
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00:11:55,581 --> 00:11:58,718
if you narrow the range
of possible investments,
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00:11:58,718 --> 00:12:00,920
then just mathematically,
it's impossible
282
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,022
to compete against the market
because you have,
283
00:12:03,022 --> 00:12:06,358
fewer industries
and fields in which to invest.
284
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,828
And so,
285
00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:11,230
Mackenzie and
Ethan, what are some of your,
286
00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:14,266
things that you guys
have learned from our program
287
00:12:14,266 --> 00:12:17,336
about these these topics of ESG
and stakeholder ism?
288
00:12:20,940 --> 00:12:22,742
We can see,
289
00:12:22,742 --> 00:12:24,243
well.
290
00:12:24,243 --> 00:12:26,445
coming into this program,
I think the biggest thing
291
00:12:26,445 --> 00:12:30,349
that we've talked to a lot about
has definitely been ESG
292
00:12:30,349 --> 00:12:35,054
in terms of, why?
293
00:12:37,089 --> 00:12:39,024
In terms of fiduciary duty,
294
00:12:39,024 --> 00:12:41,260
I would say that's
probably been the biggest thing.
295
00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:44,396
fiduciary duty means that
if you have control of people's
296
00:12:44,396 --> 00:12:45,731
money, it's in your best.
297
00:12:45,731 --> 00:12:46,432
It's in
298
00:12:46,432 --> 00:12:49,401
you have to do with their money
what's in their best interests.
299
00:12:49,535 --> 00:12:51,937
So I would say that
thinking about it
300
00:12:51,937 --> 00:12:55,107
in terms of corporate officers
having control
301
00:12:55,107 --> 00:12:58,110
of millions of dollars
of their investors money,
302
00:12:58,110 --> 00:13:01,213
that it is their duty to invest
in, in ways
303
00:13:01,213 --> 00:13:05,151
that maximize their
return on investment, not on,
304
00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:09,421
movements or,
305
00:13:09,421 --> 00:13:11,023
I, I can't think of the word
306
00:13:11,023 --> 00:13:15,861
initiatives
that promote certain ideologies
307
00:13:15,861 --> 00:13:19,465
or other ways of thinking,
because at the end of the day,
308
00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:24,370
their main job should be to
maximize shareholder investment,
309
00:13:24,770 --> 00:13:29,942
not to come out their ideas
or beliefs.
310
00:13:29,942 --> 00:13:33,179
And by doing that, they're
violating their fiduciary duty.
311
00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:36,448
And that's not
what business is for.
312
00:13:36,448 --> 00:13:38,050
And it's
313
00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:40,953
not supposed to take other
people's money and then use it
314
00:13:40,953 --> 00:13:41,654
in ways
315
00:13:41,654 --> 00:13:44,890
that they haven't explicitly
authorized you to, to use that.
316
00:13:45,457 --> 00:13:46,759
Ethan.
317
00:13:46,759 --> 00:13:49,261
I kind of piggybacking off
what Mackenzie said,
318
00:13:49,261 --> 00:13:51,564
I think there's no argument
that people,
319
00:13:51,564 --> 00:13:55,701
want to make money, that you
like more money than less money.
320
00:13:55,868 --> 00:13:57,303
And when you include this
321
00:13:57,303 --> 00:14:00,606
environmental, social governance
aspect, you're allowing
322
00:14:00,606 --> 00:14:04,076
these corporate managers or,
or firm investors to take,
323
00:14:04,376 --> 00:14:07,213
take people's money
and put them into projects or,
324
00:14:07,213 --> 00:14:10,216
initiatives
that are more controversial.
325
00:14:10,983 --> 00:14:11,584
so I think,
326
00:14:13,586 --> 00:14:15,454
allowing people to
327
00:14:15,454 --> 00:14:17,690
be confident
that their money is being spent
328
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:20,860
in ways or invested in ways
that will secure higher profits
329
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,995
and not necessarily
social causes.
330
00:14:22,995 --> 00:14:25,598
is a big part of what we've
talked about in the program.
331
00:14:25,598 --> 00:14:30,035
so ESG has been
a big part of the,
332
00:14:30,035 --> 00:14:32,037
the program that we talked about
and, stakeholder
333
00:14:32,037 --> 00:14:33,939
capitalism,
like documenting, has mentioned.
334
00:14:33,939 --> 00:14:34,473
And, Dan,
335
00:14:34,473 --> 00:14:38,043
if I may, there are other
vehicles for investors who wish
336
00:14:38,277 --> 00:14:41,714
to put their money towards
social or environmental causes,
337
00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:44,483
and they are charity.
They are philanthropy.
338
00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:47,486
You don't have to put your money
in an index fund
339
00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:50,389
in order to try to make
the world a better place,
340
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:53,392
according to your vision of what
that ought to be.
341
00:14:53,792 --> 00:14:56,762
And and and to be clear,
you know,
342
00:14:56,762 --> 00:14:59,698
as investors are free
to invest their money
343
00:14:59,698 --> 00:15:02,468
however they want and absolutely
have strong values.
344
00:15:02,468 --> 00:15:04,203
And they think that
their business
345
00:15:04,203 --> 00:15:06,939
or their financial investments
should be consistent
346
00:15:06,939 --> 00:15:08,807
with those values
and not invest in things
347
00:15:08,807 --> 00:15:11,877
that they don't personally think
make the world a better place.
348
00:15:12,011 --> 00:15:14,346
They're free to use their money
however they want,
349
00:15:14,346 --> 00:15:16,282
and at some level,
you could expect to see
350
00:15:16,282 --> 00:15:19,618
financial markets aggregate,
you know, offer products
351
00:15:19,618 --> 00:15:22,121
that would sort of appeal
to such investors.
352
00:15:22,121 --> 00:15:24,356
But, you know, the issues that
353
00:15:24,356 --> 00:15:28,093
that we are dealing with with
ESG are far more complicated.
354
00:15:28,127 --> 00:15:29,929
And with that than that,
it's like
355
00:15:29,929 --> 00:15:32,631
is of using
some other people's money,
356
00:15:32,631 --> 00:15:34,466
without explicit consent.
357
00:15:34,466 --> 00:15:35,968
And like,
as you said, Mackenzie,
358
00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:39,772
they consider this issue of,
fiduciary duty and
359
00:15:40,339 --> 00:15:43,609
and so, yeah, it's important
to, to understand
360
00:15:43,609 --> 00:15:45,878
exactly what's going on with
some of these, these issues.
361
00:15:45,878 --> 00:15:49,748
So, Alan, tell us a little bit
about some of the different
362
00:15:49,748 --> 00:15:53,018
speakers and some of the ways
we've gone about,
363
00:15:53,819 --> 00:15:57,456
you know, advancing both these,
these ideas.
364
00:15:57,589 --> 00:15:58,157
Sure.
365
00:15:58,157 --> 00:16:01,493
Some of our recent speakers
have been, Alexandra Hudson,
366
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:02,995
who spoke about,
367
00:16:02,995 --> 00:16:06,098
the importance of civility
to society writ large.
368
00:16:06,332 --> 00:16:09,101
Andy Alabaster of the Heritage
Foundation, one of,
369
00:16:09,101 --> 00:16:13,172
Troy University's distinguished
alumni, Jay Nordlinger
370
00:16:13,172 --> 00:16:15,207
from the National Review
Institute.
371
00:16:15,207 --> 00:16:18,143
Ben Johnson, a professor
from the University of Florida,
372
00:16:18,143 --> 00:16:21,880
spoke about corporate law and
issues related to corporations.
373
00:16:22,481 --> 00:16:24,450
Richard Adler Cominco,
who is now leading
374
00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:25,851
the University of Wisconsin
375
00:16:25,851 --> 00:16:28,854
to go, joined Scott
on the School of Economic,
376
00:16:29,288 --> 00:16:30,823
Thought and Research.
what is it?
377
00:16:30,823 --> 00:16:32,858
The School of Economic
Thought and Leadership
378
00:16:32,858 --> 00:16:35,127
at Arizona State University.
379
00:16:35,127 --> 00:16:38,397
Anson Friedrichs,
the president of Stripe Asset
380
00:16:38,397 --> 00:16:42,801
Management, Andy
Pozner, the former, CEO of Ski
381
00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:45,804
Restaurants, Scott
Shepherd of the National Center
382
00:16:45,804 --> 00:16:47,039
for Public Policy Research.
383
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,042
These are just a few examples of
the people who came and spoke.
384
00:16:50,042 --> 00:16:50,976
But we also had,
385
00:16:50,976 --> 00:16:54,913
generous organizations
donate books for us to read.
386
00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:56,715
For example,
the American Enterprise
387
00:16:56,715 --> 00:16:58,617
Institute, donated copies
388
00:16:58,617 --> 00:17:01,453
of Morality of Markets Arguments
for the Free Market System,
389
00:17:01,453 --> 00:17:03,255
which was edited
by Yuval of then,
390
00:17:03,255 --> 00:17:06,892
the Cato Institute,
donated copies of the case
391
00:17:07,126 --> 00:17:09,228
for Shareholder Capitalism,
which we read.
392
00:17:09,228 --> 00:17:11,530
And then we've read books by,
Jim Hardison,
393
00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:14,533
seven Deadly Economics
Sins and Honorable Business.
394
00:17:14,533 --> 00:17:18,470
These are really excellent
books, and I know the students
395
00:17:19,238 --> 00:17:23,242
worked really hard,
to read week in and week out
396
00:17:23,242 --> 00:17:24,643
because we either
397
00:17:24,643 --> 00:17:27,513
we either did a reading group,
which you directed, of course,
398
00:17:27,513 --> 00:17:30,649
or we had a guest lecturer
come in every single week,
399
00:17:30,649 --> 00:17:31,984
with maybe the exception
of spring
400
00:17:31,984 --> 00:17:35,921
break in the spring and maybe,
Thanksgiving break in the fall.
401
00:17:36,155 --> 00:17:40,526
So this is a rigorous program,
and it's a very deep commitment
402
00:17:40,526 --> 00:17:42,961
that the students
make to the program.
403
00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:47,433
And, I'm just excited about how
well it's gone and how much
404
00:17:47,433 --> 00:17:48,667
the students have excelled.
405
00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:49,968
I've seen them grow.
406
00:17:49,968 --> 00:17:52,137
I've watched them learn.
407
00:17:52,137 --> 00:17:55,174
that has been an exciting
experience for me personally.
408
00:17:55,707 --> 00:17:57,776
Given have also been able to,
409
00:17:57,776 --> 00:17:59,945
as you see
from some of these pictures,
410
00:17:59,945 --> 00:18:01,246
have an opportunity
411
00:18:01,246 --> 00:18:02,948
to interact
with some of these speakers and
412
00:18:02,948 --> 00:18:05,350
here on a one on one basis, or,
413
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:08,720
not just in our discussion,
but,
414
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,224
you know, outside of that,
at a dinner or whatever.
415
00:18:12,224 --> 00:18:14,293
So and I think those
are really important things
416
00:18:14,293 --> 00:18:17,129
to add to the student
learning experience as well.
417
00:18:17,129 --> 00:18:17,796
Absolutely.
418
00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:20,799
I think getting to know
these speakers on a personal,
419
00:18:20,833 --> 00:18:24,470
one on one basis leads
to a very interesting learning
420
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:27,873
experience, experiences,
but also to opportunities.
421
00:18:27,873 --> 00:18:28,841
I know we've had,
422
00:18:28,841 --> 00:18:31,844
at least one student gain
an important internship
423
00:18:32,211 --> 00:18:35,214
through, interactions
with a guest lecturer.
424
00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:38,884
So, Ethan,
and what have been some of
425
00:18:38,884 --> 00:18:40,919
the highlights
that the uses of,
426
00:18:40,919 --> 00:18:43,922
our speakers that we've had,
coming in to talk to the group.
427
00:18:44,756 --> 00:18:47,392
I've really enjoyed being able
to sit down with these speakers,
428
00:18:47,392 --> 00:18:48,127
listen to them,
429
00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:51,130
one of them, Ben Johnson,
talking about, corporate,
430
00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:53,432
activities
and things like that,
431
00:18:53,432 --> 00:18:55,134
and then going to dinner
with him afterwards
432
00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:57,436
and just being able
to pick his brain on,
433
00:18:57,436 --> 00:18:58,637
I mean, the classes
he's teaching.
434
00:18:58,637 --> 00:19:03,208
And I believe I would say that,
things of that nature
435
00:19:03,208 --> 00:19:05,344
and to just like the book club
in general,
436
00:19:05,344 --> 00:19:05,944
it's kind of
437
00:19:05,944 --> 00:19:08,147
when we first found out
that we were going to be reading
438
00:19:08,147 --> 00:19:10,849
books is a little daunting,
adding another two books
439
00:19:10,849 --> 00:19:14,720
onto the, schedule of classes
and things of that nature.
440
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,022
But they've actually been
really interesting books.
441
00:19:17,022 --> 00:19:17,589
And it's easy.
442
00:19:17,589 --> 00:19:18,423
It's kind of,
443
00:19:18,423 --> 00:19:21,927
a page flip, not necessarily
thriller or anything,
444
00:19:21,927 --> 00:19:24,830
but it's still interesting
being able to read these books
445
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:27,199
and kind of compare them
to the real world
446
00:19:27,199 --> 00:19:29,902
and things
that I'm seeing at work as well.
447
00:19:29,902 --> 00:19:30,903
Yeah, I think that
448
00:19:30,903 --> 00:19:32,271
both of those, books
449
00:19:32,271 --> 00:19:33,138
that you mentioned, Alan,
450
00:19:33,138 --> 00:19:36,575
that we covered this last
semester, were very well done.
451
00:19:36,575 --> 00:19:40,479
And I commend, AEI and Cato for
for putting those out.
452
00:19:40,579 --> 00:19:42,481
So because would have been
some of your,
453
00:19:42,481 --> 00:19:46,118
highlights in the area of the
speakers, that, that stand out.
454
00:19:46,552 --> 00:19:46,952
Yeah.
455
00:19:46,952 --> 00:19:51,590
So, her name's escapes me, but
she wrote The Soul of Civility.
456
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:53,525
That's Alexandra
Hudson. Let's see. Hudson.
457
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:55,160
Hudson was very interesting.
458
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,762
I think she's been
my favorite speaker
459
00:19:56,762 --> 00:19:58,163
that we posted so far,
460
00:19:58,163 --> 00:20:00,299
just because I thought
we had a really good
461
00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:03,869
in-depth conversation
about what being civil means.
462
00:20:04,303 --> 00:20:07,105
And we sat down at dinner
with her in the conference room,
463
00:20:07,105 --> 00:20:08,807
and that was just
a really great experience.
464
00:20:08,807 --> 00:20:09,308
And she
465
00:20:09,308 --> 00:20:12,377
we have copies of her book,
and I have read some of it,
466
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:14,146
and I thought
it was really interesting.
467
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:17,115
but I would also just say that
468
00:20:17,115 --> 00:20:18,183
the biggest highlight for me
469
00:20:18,183 --> 00:20:20,652
was probably like
finding community
470
00:20:20,652 --> 00:20:21,753
in the business school
471
00:20:21,753 --> 00:20:23,055
and specifically in the econ
472
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:25,023
department, because I'm
not an economics major,
473
00:20:25,023 --> 00:20:26,992
but being able
to build connections
474
00:20:26,992 --> 00:20:28,160
with economics professors
475
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,030
and other econ students has been
a really good experience.
476
00:20:32,030 --> 00:20:33,699
And just getting more context
477
00:20:33,699 --> 00:20:36,501
of my business education
from all the books we've read,
478
00:20:36,501 --> 00:20:38,604
I would say that
it's been really helpful
479
00:20:38,604 --> 00:20:39,304
going through
480
00:20:39,304 --> 00:20:41,240
my introductory business classes
481
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,408
and having a greater
understanding of what all
482
00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:44,876
we're talking about in class.
483
00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:47,479
So this program is definitely
helped me in that aspect.
484
00:20:47,479 --> 00:20:49,681
And so you think it's added
485
00:20:49,681 --> 00:20:52,718
some things beyond anything
you're getting in classes? Yes.
486
00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:56,321
And Ethan,
you I see what you said.
487
00:20:56,321 --> 00:20:57,322
it's it's been two
488
00:20:57,322 --> 00:20:59,625
principal classes
and kind of go into it
489
00:20:59,625 --> 00:21:01,360
knowing
more than the other students.
490
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,963
Do you hear about these,
shareholder capitalism concepts?
491
00:21:04,963 --> 00:21:07,733
And some of the other students
are struggling to grasp it.
492
00:21:07,733 --> 00:21:08,500
We're meeting weekly
493
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,135
and discussing these things
with one another
494
00:21:10,135 --> 00:21:12,838
and kind of picking each other's
brain, picking your,
495
00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:16,141
YouTubes brain about the topics
and conversations as well.
496
00:21:16,141 --> 00:21:20,012
So I think overall it's
been a beneficial, club to be
497
00:21:20,012 --> 00:21:20,412
a part of
498
00:21:21,613 --> 00:21:23,515
it. And so we've been
499
00:21:23,515 --> 00:21:25,217
talking recently about,
you know,
500
00:21:25,217 --> 00:21:28,220
perhaps expanding our program
next year to,
501
00:21:28,353 --> 00:21:31,156
hey, guess after the students
go through the a reading group
502
00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:34,393
to perhaps try and get them
involved in research
503
00:21:34,393 --> 00:21:36,328
on these important topics
because like,
504
00:21:36,328 --> 00:21:38,030
that's another,
I think, important thing
505
00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:41,033
that that we as a university
should be trying to do is as,
506
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,202
introduce,
our students to, to research,
507
00:21:44,202 --> 00:21:46,605
because that's what we do
as professors.
508
00:21:46,605 --> 00:21:48,707
And it's what you know,
got many of us
509
00:21:48,707 --> 00:21:52,544
into, our career because we,
we love doing research.
510
00:21:52,911 --> 00:21:54,379
And, and so I think it's
511
00:21:54,379 --> 00:21:56,648
really important to
to try and introduce
512
00:21:56,648 --> 00:21:59,651
students to do research
and then allow them to also
513
00:21:59,751 --> 00:22:02,254
not just read about,
but actually do something
514
00:22:02,254 --> 00:22:04,556
about some of these issues
of the day.
515
00:22:04,556 --> 00:22:05,324
Right?
516
00:22:05,324 --> 00:22:06,391
That's exactly right.
517
00:22:06,391 --> 00:22:09,127
And the Johnson Center
has been inundated
518
00:22:09,127 --> 00:22:13,198
by requests for research because
this program is so unique.
519
00:22:13,732 --> 00:22:15,801
It is on the map, so to speak.
520
00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:18,170
People are noticing
what we're doing,
521
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:21,740
and we're working in a space
in which there happens
522
00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:24,710
to be a high demand
for research.
523
00:22:24,943 --> 00:22:28,513
So allowing the students
who go through the program to,
524
00:22:28,547 --> 00:22:31,016
as it were,
a graduate into a research
525
00:22:31,016 --> 00:22:34,019
position is helpful
not just for them
526
00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:34,753
and that
527
00:22:34,753 --> 00:22:34,986
they are
528
00:22:34,986 --> 00:22:38,156
now equipped to do research
and they actually get
529
00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:39,124
to do research.
530
00:22:39,124 --> 00:22:43,628
But also, it's helpful
to all the people out there
531
00:22:43,628 --> 00:22:46,398
seeking more information,
more data
532
00:22:46,398 --> 00:22:50,001
about, for example, ESG
or about the shareholder versus
533
00:22:50,001 --> 00:22:52,371
the stakeholder model
of corporate governance.
534
00:22:52,371 --> 00:22:55,974
And thanks to the generous
donations from private donors,
535
00:22:56,241 --> 00:22:59,578
we're able to take this program
to the next level.
536
00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:02,547
the Bradley Foundation
has been particularly generous.
537
00:23:02,547 --> 00:23:06,151
We have, a new, donor
and the ACC Foundation,
538
00:23:06,685 --> 00:23:08,687
the acting Institute
has been contributing.
539
00:23:08,687 --> 00:23:09,554
I mentioned
540
00:23:09,554 --> 00:23:13,158
AEI and the Cato Institute
providing books for the program.
541
00:23:13,558 --> 00:23:15,794
And then locally here
we have Alpha,
542
00:23:15,794 --> 00:23:17,529
which has provided
some funding for the program,
543
00:23:17,529 --> 00:23:19,865
and then just numerous
private donors
544
00:23:19,865 --> 00:23:22,334
just giving one small gift
here, one small gift
545
00:23:22,334 --> 00:23:25,337
there, has enabled us
to grow the program
546
00:23:25,437 --> 00:23:28,740
to fund the students, to provide
books for the students,
547
00:23:28,974 --> 00:23:30,442
to give them scholarship money,
548
00:23:30,442 --> 00:23:31,710
for participating
in the program.
549
00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:34,112
And now to take it
to the next level
550
00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:37,115
where we will have
not just a new,
551
00:23:37,282 --> 00:23:40,485
a new, core of students
going through the program
552
00:23:40,485 --> 00:23:44,122
as it has been operating
at the last two years.
553
00:23:44,389 --> 00:23:47,426
But, have new positions
in which we have the people
554
00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:49,127
who have gone
through the program
555
00:23:49,127 --> 00:23:52,764
start doing research and start,
I'll start really
556
00:23:53,532 --> 00:23:56,535
taking their learning and
understanding to the next level.
557
00:23:56,902 --> 00:24:00,872
Well, in our this year,
of free enterprise, scholars
558
00:24:00,872 --> 00:24:03,141
have worked on some op eds
to discuss something.
559
00:24:03,141 --> 00:24:07,012
So, you know, Ethan,
you were working on an op ed
560
00:24:07,012 --> 00:24:10,782
related to, unions, which seems
particularly timely.
561
00:24:10,782 --> 00:24:11,183
Today.
562
00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:14,419
We are in Alabama since there
there's a unionization drive
563
00:24:14,419 --> 00:24:18,590
at the, Mercedes
plant outside of Tuscaloosa.
564
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:21,793
So tell us a little bit about
what you've been, right about.
565
00:24:22,294 --> 00:24:25,130
so that's primarily
the reason I did decide to
566
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:26,965
write this paper is working
in Montgomery.
567
00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:28,900
It's kind of been a hot topic.
568
00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:30,535
We've seen the governor
put out a press
569
00:24:30,535 --> 00:24:32,103
release about labor unions.
570
00:24:32,103 --> 00:24:35,340
the commerce secretary,
the leaders of the House
571
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:37,042
and Senate have, put up things.
572
00:24:37,042 --> 00:24:38,610
So I thought it'd be interesting
to kind of dive
573
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:39,811
into this topic and
574
00:24:39,811 --> 00:24:40,645
and figure out
575
00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:43,882
the historical context of labor
unions, how at one point
576
00:24:43,882 --> 00:24:47,719
they were, in the benefit
of the workers because we didn't
577
00:24:47,719 --> 00:24:51,556
have these laws or regulations
in place, to protect workers.
578
00:24:51,556 --> 00:24:56,194
But over time, we have over
180 federal regulations,
579
00:24:56,194 --> 00:24:58,830
regulating governing workplace
activities,
580
00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:02,801
relationship between employers,
employees, and standard
581
00:25:02,801 --> 00:25:05,804
health and safety,
guidelines for workplaces.
582
00:25:05,804 --> 00:25:10,775
So I think over time they have
been beneficial for workers.
583
00:25:10,775 --> 00:25:13,778
But in today's current context
and political climate,
584
00:25:13,879 --> 00:25:17,516
I don't really see
the need for labor unions.
585
00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:21,453
I think they get more in the way
and try to uplift a few while
586
00:25:21,820 --> 00:25:24,723
taking away jobs for some of
the ones that really do need it.
587
00:25:24,723 --> 00:25:26,458
Some of the younger,
588
00:25:26,458 --> 00:25:29,928
people, people that do not have
the skill set necessary.
589
00:25:30,562 --> 00:25:31,796
so I thought it was
really interesting.
590
00:25:31,796 --> 00:25:35,367
I, attended a, colloquium
in Vermont
591
00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,402
last summer,
and we read Milton and Rose
592
00:25:37,402 --> 00:25:40,005
Friedman's
book, Free to Choose.
593
00:25:40,005 --> 00:25:41,773
And he talked a lot
about labor unions
594
00:25:41,773 --> 00:25:44,175
and how they, they uplift
some of the few
595
00:25:44,175 --> 00:25:46,344
in the community,
but take away a lot from others.
596
00:25:46,344 --> 00:25:47,145
So I just
597
00:25:47,145 --> 00:25:49,981
I like learning more
about labor unions and kind of
598
00:25:49,981 --> 00:25:51,650
putting my perspective
and spin on it,
599
00:25:51,650 --> 00:25:54,953
why they're not necessarily
needed in today's society.
600
00:25:55,987 --> 00:25:58,490
And and Mackenzie,
you were wrong about it.
601
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:00,292
So you made it to Cuba.
602
00:26:00,292 --> 00:26:01,960
So tell us a little about your
603
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,530
trip to Cuba and what you saw
about socialism and socialism
604
00:26:05,764 --> 00:26:07,732
failures up close and personal.
605
00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:07,999
Yeah.
606
00:26:07,999 --> 00:26:09,901
So I had the opportunity
to study
607
00:26:09,901 --> 00:26:13,572
abroad in Cuba last December,
and it was a great experience.
608
00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:16,107
But one of my biggest
takeaways from that
609
00:26:16,107 --> 00:26:17,809
was that their economic system
610
00:26:17,809 --> 00:26:19,444
and their government has failed
them.
611
00:26:19,444 --> 00:26:22,814
life in Cuba is very different
than it is here.
612
00:26:22,814 --> 00:26:25,350
There are no public amenities.
613
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:28,420
there are people everywhere
in worse
614
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:31,723
poverty than I've ever seen
in this country.
615
00:26:31,723 --> 00:26:33,592
So I think that
616
00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:37,028
the socialist system in Cuba
really contributes to that.
617
00:26:37,395 --> 00:26:40,065
They don't support businesses,
they don't support innovation
618
00:26:40,065 --> 00:26:41,833
or entrepreneurship.
And it shows.
619
00:26:41,833 --> 00:26:44,202
so that's what I wrote about.
620
00:26:44,202 --> 00:26:49,174
and talking about the
lacking of Cuba and its economy
621
00:26:49,174 --> 00:26:52,177
and how its citizens
suffer as a result.
622
00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:55,580
And I mean, lots of,
college age students have
623
00:26:55,580 --> 00:26:58,316
a high opinion of socialism,
so perhaps they should go.
624
00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:02,587
I mean, Cuba's only 90 miles off
the coast of Florida, and so
625
00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:06,291
perhaps they could go see,
how how socialism work
626
00:27:06,358 --> 00:27:09,661
is working out in in person
there, right, absolutely.
627
00:27:10,462 --> 00:27:11,396
And so,
628
00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:13,131
Alan,
tell us a little bit about,
629
00:27:13,131 --> 00:27:14,065
you know, I guess
630
00:27:14,065 --> 00:27:16,034
it was touch a little bit
what we wanted going forward.
631
00:27:16,034 --> 00:27:17,869
But you know what,
what do you see
632
00:27:17,869 --> 00:27:20,405
in, in terms of the future
for our program here
633
00:27:20,405 --> 00:27:23,408
and what might be the doing
over the next year or so?
634
00:27:23,975 --> 00:27:26,478
Well, I think we are looking
at hosting
635
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:29,481
an event
regarding ESG in the fall,
636
00:27:29,881 --> 00:27:32,651
and we will be focusing
a lot more on research.
637
00:27:32,651 --> 00:27:35,654
I know you and I
are both working together
638
00:27:35,787 --> 00:27:38,790
on articles regarding ESG.
639
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:42,127
I've got a special issue of the
Alabama Lawyer, which is the
640
00:27:42,293 --> 00:27:44,462
magazine of the State
Bar publication
641
00:27:44,462 --> 00:27:47,365
that's coming out
on, on, specifically ESG.
642
00:27:47,365 --> 00:27:49,868
It's a corporate law issue,
but we're focusing on ESG.
643
00:27:49,868 --> 00:27:53,705
And I know, we are going to be
bringing together researchers
644
00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:56,708
from other institutions, both
Thinktanks and universities,
645
00:27:56,841 --> 00:28:00,679
to start coordinating,
and producing more research.
646
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:03,682
And, of course, our students
are going to be a central part
647
00:28:03,715 --> 00:28:06,718
of this experience as well,
which will be exciting.
648
00:28:06,918 --> 00:28:07,218
Yeah.
649
00:28:07,218 --> 00:28:08,753
And I really look forward to
650
00:28:08,753 --> 00:28:11,756
bringing some new students
into the program and continuing
651
00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:15,026
to, to work with, some of
our university's
652
00:28:15,026 --> 00:28:17,362
most outstanding,
undergraduates.
653
00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:20,298
So, again, thank you. McKenzie.
654
00:28:20,298 --> 00:28:21,466
And thank you, Ethan,
655
00:28:21,466 --> 00:28:24,769
for participating our program
and for coming on this, show.
656
00:28:25,403 --> 00:28:27,272
And thank you all
for joining us.
657
00:28:27,272 --> 00:28:30,341
Join us again next time
for another conversation.
658
00:28:33,511 --> 00:28:35,714
This has been conversations,
659
00:28:35,714 --> 00:28:39,050
a joint production of Troy
Turgeon Vision and the Manuel H.
660
00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:42,120
Johnson Center for Political
Economy at four University.
661
00:29:12,884 --> 00:29:14,119
So, Dan,
you really just want to shoot
662
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,122
a promo on camera two
with everybody in the shot?
663
00:29:17,555 --> 00:29:18,289
if you wanted me,
664
00:29:18,289 --> 00:29:19,791
I was going
to do a little promo,
665
00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:22,727
but you guys can get up
if you want, or they'll.
666
00:29:22,727 --> 00:29:25,029
They'll probably be able
to just zoom in on me
667
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:26,064
and talk to me there.
668
00:29:26,064 --> 00:29:29,067
Be I can.
669
00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:30,602
any one. Thing.
670
00:29:30,602 --> 00:29:33,605
All right.
671
00:30:04,035 --> 00:30:05,170
I think I got this figured out.
672
00:30:05,170 --> 00:30:08,173
Stand by.
673
00:30:28,326 --> 00:30:29,994
Is it possible to reclaim
674
00:30:29,994 --> 00:30:32,997
the traditional virtues of
commerce for American business,
675
00:30:33,031 --> 00:30:34,599
or our business and finance now
676
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,302
to be employed
as tools of social engineering?
677
00:30:37,302 --> 00:30:39,304
I'm Doctor Dan
Snyder of the Johnson Center
678
00:30:39,304 --> 00:30:41,606
for Political Economy
at Troy University.
679
00:30:41,606 --> 00:30:43,341
Join me
on the next conversations
680
00:30:43,341 --> 00:30:44,676
when we'll be talking
about our free
681
00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:46,077
enterprise Scholars program.
