Developing 'Key Adults' within Your Staff Team - Early Years Insights

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Welcome to the Early Years Insights with me Kathy
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Leatherbarrow from Eden and today I have got
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Natalie, Head of Operations from Banana Moon
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and Laura, Head of Early Years at Banana Moon.
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So welcome. Thank you for having us today. Thank
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you very much. More skills are required in leadership
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and management aren't they now when it comes
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to your staff team as was you know 10 -15 years
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ago. You know it was A dictatorial, you know,
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leadership and management. You just did as you
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were told and you completed an activity and you
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did your next task. And, you know, we're now,
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you know, leaders. You know, you have to see
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your staff team as almost like, you know, your
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group of children, haven't you? You've got to
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be responsible for them, to nurture them, to
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educate them. to be role models and be flexible
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with your approach to ensure you get the best
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out of them. It's almost as if your practitioners
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and early years professionals have their group
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of key children. As a manager, your key children,
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you've always got a group of key adults, you
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know, those people you have to see them in. What's
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my role in supporting their next step? What is
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their next step in their career journey or their
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CPD? How do I play a part in that? And how do
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I encourage that next step for them? And it does
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all have to be individual. One thing, you know,
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something that works for me might not work for
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Laura. And, you know, we always have to work
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out how we make sure that we are moving forwards
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with those things. It's empowering them, isn't
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it, with knowledge? That's a conversation we
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had yesterday as well. We had the exact conversation
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yesterday. It was towards the end of the day.
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And we said, as a manager, I've always preferred
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to manage people the way that they like to be
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managed than how I want to manage. So I try and
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find the right thing for them. what we're always
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in danger of is letting time take over us to
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stop us from being able to achieve that yeah
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so i think um it's about checking back in with
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ourselves telling ourselves you've let time get
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away with you here stop regroup and try again
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and it doesn't matter how many years we've been
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managing we will still get it wrong yeah um and
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yeah you'd have to take that time to just get
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to know your staff team again and build those
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up and what do they need from me yeah yes absolutely
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It can be tricky, though. Oh, absolutely. It's
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because, let's face it, no day is ever quiet.
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You can think it's the summer holidays and you've
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got loads of children on holiday and then you've
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got three staff off ill with a sickness bug.
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It's hard. Yeah, and when you're trying that
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flexible approach and that personal approach,
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you've also got down to fairness and equality
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as well, haven't you? That can weigh you another
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way as well with your decision -making, isn't
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it? Yeah, and I think there's times where, you
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know, you can offer flexibility to somebody because
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you know how their personal circumstances are
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maybe being impacted at the moment or they've
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got something going on that you think, actually,
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OK, we do need to offer more flexibility. But
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then if another person doesn't quite understand
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why they've got that and they can't have that,
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then it can cause, you know, can cause some problems
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in the workplace. But I think it goes back to
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that just constant reflection, isn't it, of,
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you know, have I... How much time have I given
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to myself to stop and reflect? And am I giving
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too much of myself to one area and not enough
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to another? And I think it goes back to that
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happy team. If you know that the team are happy
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and you've kind of watered where they need so
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they can grow, then you'll find that things get
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easier for you as a manager because your team
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are happy. Yeah, and it's about having a good
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support senior management team as well, isn't
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it? Finding your strengths and weaknesses within
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that senior management team. There's a lot for
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delegation as well, isn't there? Yeah, absolutely.
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There is a role for that. We've got quite a unique
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set up, let's say, at Banana Moon. So we're a
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franchise network and a lot of people don't really
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know what that means. But the biggest franchise
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that most people know is McDonald's, which isn't
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the same as Day Nurseries. But essentially what
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it means is each nursery is owned individually
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by their own director. They have Banana Moon's
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support team there to help them and guide them.
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So they get to have that kind of independent
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family run field to many of the nurseries. But
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they know that they've got us there to help them
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and support them too. So we've got two separate
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teams. We've got Laura's team, which is the early
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years department. And then I have a team of operations
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support officers. So we kind of give support.
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to our nursery owners and the team on the ground
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in the nurseries in two different ways and I
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think that's really nice because they get to
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be able to... run their nursery and do things
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their way, but they can just pick up the phone
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and say, listen, we've got this problem. It's
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a big safety net, isn't it? It's a really big
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safety net to know that you've got, you know,
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because running a nursery and the operational
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side of it is very different to the early years
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side, isn't it? Of course it is. You know, not
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the fun side. This is where we're different,
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isn't it? Laura's the ying to my yang. We're
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very, very similar, but very different at the
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same time. I'll be like, yeah, but why? what
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about the children? And an artist is like, I
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know, but it's still a business. I do care about
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the children too. Yes, I know, they're very important,
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but it's still a business. So we do have those
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conversations, but you're absolutely right. And
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that's where it tends to be. The way it tends
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to work is you end up supporting the owners,
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the business owners, so our franchisees, whereas
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my team tend to support the nursery managers
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and the teams. And part of that last year, we
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identified that we wanted to provide more training
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opportunities, which is obviously when we started
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working more so with yourselves. But equally,
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we launched our own training academy. So we offer
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training to managers, EYPs, room leaders, everybody.
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So we wanted to make sure that we didn't just
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offer training to the management team. We wanted
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it to be able to go down to everybody. So the
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way we've done it is we will write the training
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programmes within our earliest department. It
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will all be approved, it goes through an approval
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process. And then they get to spend time with
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the management team and delivering that. And
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then they provide them into kits so the nursery
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managers can then be the ones to share them with
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their own teams. So again, not only are they
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getting support. in other areas, it's about their
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own CPD and their own development as well. So
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that's a big skill, isn't it, that they're learning
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there as well themselves. So for us, support
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is support. So they can pick up the phone, they
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can email us, it's there for any questions they
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may have. But equally, it's about building them
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up to have the skills so they can answer those
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questions more themselves and that they can feel
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more confident in their own abilities. Because
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that's key. It's really important. It's about
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that empowerment for them, isn't it? So we've
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seen a shift in how people are getting to management
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positions now in nurseries. And I think because
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of that recruitment crisis that we have in the
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sector. people are moving kind of through the
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ranks a little bit quicker than they perhaps
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used to. And that means that you can potentially
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have somebody in a management position who has
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qualified a couple of years ago, maybe been a
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room leader and then a deputy for one year and
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all of a sudden they're then a manager. And that
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means that you're right, they maybe haven't got
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that leadership skill yet. And so then say to
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that person, you have to potentially lead a team
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of... 28 people, hold your staff meetings and
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make sure they've got all the knowledge they
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need. Actually, that can be really overwhelming.
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So to know that they can do the training through
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the Banana Moon Training Academy first, get those
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skills and that confidence to then present that
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training themselves to their team, it just adds
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an extra layer of support for them, which is
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really nice. And directors are obviously there
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because, you know, it's their business. But obviously
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there's a, you know... There's a passion for
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early years as well. But, you know, it can be
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very hard just to be an independent nursery at
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the moment, can't it? You know, there's lots
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closing, unfortunately, isn't there? And it can
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be quite daunting. So if you've got that safety
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net of, you know... the operational side and
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the early years side, it's, you know, it's a
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big weight off their shoulders, isn't it? Yeah,
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definitely. You know, to support them with, you
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know, their business. Yeah, and there's been,
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I mean, I probably speak for everybody when I
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say that every time I've checked my inbox for
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the last six months or so, I feel there's been
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a new gov .uk email that's come through. And,
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you know, it's almost every day at the moment.
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You know, the last six months have been tough
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with legislation changes, with funding changes.
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There's been so much happening. that actually
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our network have really needed each other because
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they've been able to fall back on each other
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and say, what are you doing with your consumables?
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And how are you doing this? And, you know, in
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terms of with the EYFS changes as well, it's
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been so important for them to be able to just
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say. I'm overwhelmed. Can you help me? And having
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the two separate departments, I think, has made
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it clear for them to know who they can contact
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and where they get that support. It's also made
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it very enjoyable for early years to not have
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to talk about funding. Yeah, I think that...
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Sorry. No, I think that would be my approach
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too. Oh dear. It's been a tough six months for
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everybody. You know, it's well, probably longer
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than that as well. But, you know, the last six
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months have been particularly difficult with
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all the changes. But hopefully those nine month
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babies have got their funding and, you know,
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everything will hopefully, fingers crossed, start
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to settle down now. So I do feel for those independent
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nurseries and hopefully, you know. the advice
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and guidance that we can give to nurseries and
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the sector itself hopefully that'll get to them
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as well because it's it is beneficial for them
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I do feel for anybody independent at the minute
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it's just it's difficult and I think in terms
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terms of our support again we've got so many
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nurseries in different local authorities we've
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done what we can to to help and to guide to say
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this is how you can have your funding structure
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or this is what you could charge here and this
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is how you can ensure that the children who are
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receiving deprivation funding aren't segregated
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in any way or you know there's been so many different
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conversations about the funding structures um
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but we've not been able to kind of say specifically
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exactly what each nursery must do because again
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every local authority is looking for different
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things but you know and it can be you know it
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it could be a scenario that it does impact The
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care that then that child receives as well, because
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like you just said about deprivation funding,
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you know, and if children are just there for
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their set free, you know, funding hours, because
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that's all the family can, you know, they can't
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afford any additional. You know, it's about ensuring
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that, you know, that there's no segregation there,
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is there? There's no, you know, isolation, that
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children aren't treated differently or unfairly.
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Have an ethical approach to that. Absolutely,
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absolutely. You know, and this, you know, and
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this gap that was huge. that, you know, there's
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potential for it to get bigger at the moment.
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Well, I really agree with that. You know, and
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I just really worry about how this is all going
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to be put into place and implemented because
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I think there's a potential for that, you know,
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that gap, you know, in terms of a poverty gap
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becoming even bigger. Yeah, I really agree. It's
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awful that we're kind of in the position, but
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it goes back to that, the point that you said
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before about, you know, nurseries are businesses,
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you know, and we do absolutely, we are as inclusive
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as possible. We are as supportive as possible
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to those families, especially at Banana Moon.
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But there have been conversations of, well, maybe
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we can only provide these activities for these
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children. And, you know, can these children,
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because they pay more, they can get this. It
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just fills my heart with sorrow. Oh gosh, I know.
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We were exactly the same and, you know, very
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pleased to say that our network, we're all in
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agreement that that's absolutely not the ethos
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that we have and all children will get the same
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opportunities and that we will continue to reflect
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on those kind of cultural capital backgrounds.
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And, you know, I know you always refer to it
00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:16.809
as a backpack. So those cultural capital backpacks,
00:12:16.809 --> 00:12:19.470
how do we fill it up and what experiences can
00:12:19.470 --> 00:12:23.269
we give? And I was really pleased to say and
00:12:23.269 --> 00:12:25.490
proud to say that I'm part of a network of nurseries
00:12:25.490 --> 00:12:28.049
that won't have any of those kind of structures
00:12:28.049 --> 00:12:31.049
in place. But I know there have been real genuine
00:12:31.049 --> 00:12:34.769
thoughts for some people. It just worries me.
00:12:34.870 --> 00:12:38.750
It really worries me that, you know, until we're
00:12:38.750 --> 00:12:42.250
into it and probably about 12, 18 months down
00:12:42.250 --> 00:12:44.250
the line, we're not going to see if there's any
00:12:44.250 --> 00:12:48.399
repercussions of that. I've just got a real worry
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:51.299
that that gap is going to widen for a lot of
00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:53.799
children and families. I just hope that parents
00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:56.879
do the research and or have people around them
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.600
that help them do that research so they can find
00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:03.480
the right place for them and their child. I agree.
00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:06.039
We had a lovely story at one of the nurseries
00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:10.240
where a child was in receipt of EYPP funding
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:15.470
and additional funding. noticed that the child
00:13:15.470 --> 00:13:16.929
although they were three they were still coming
00:13:16.929 --> 00:13:18.730
to nursery in a push chair so they asked the
00:13:18.730 --> 00:13:21.250
parent and said oh why is that that kind of professional
00:13:21.250 --> 00:13:24.789
curiosity again and they said oh um i just by
00:13:24.789 --> 00:13:26.830
the time i've got them up on a morning and got
00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:30.110
them to nursery um i'll be late for work because
00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:32.350
they just don't walk quick enough so then nursery
00:13:32.350 --> 00:13:34.090
kind of put their early years development head
00:13:34.090 --> 00:13:36.580
on and said well Keeping them in the push chair
00:13:36.580 --> 00:13:38.779
is not going to help them walk quicker or, you
00:13:38.779 --> 00:13:40.620
know, help them develop those gross motor skills
00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.960
they need. So they use the EYPP funding to buy
00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.620
the child a balance bike and a helmet. So now
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:49.399
the child rides to nursery on their bike. Oh,
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:53.279
I just love that story. Yeah, it was really special.
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.019
So now the little one flies into nursery on his
00:13:56.019 --> 00:14:00.210
bike. With a stronger core. Yeah. Better moving
00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:05.009
legs. And a better way on his journey. A better
00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:07.809
way of preparing for that journey to school.
00:14:08.169 --> 00:14:10.549
That development for him now from when he gets
00:14:10.549 --> 00:14:13.309
to school, it's going to be there. Also, it's
00:14:13.309 --> 00:14:16.230
that journey, isn't it? It could well be that
00:14:16.230 --> 00:14:20.129
she's caught three buses, doesn't it? yeah and
00:14:20.129 --> 00:14:22.230
you know and it's just a lovely example of how
00:14:22.230 --> 00:14:24.649
that funding can be used for the family and for
00:14:24.649 --> 00:14:26.990
the child but yeah when i heard that story i
00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:28.629
have to admit i welled up when i was in the nursery
00:14:28.629 --> 00:14:31.070
i just said oh that's so lovely because we get
00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:35.029
to see some wonderful examples of that and we
00:14:35.029 --> 00:14:37.389
get to we get to go and like you know those visits
00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:39.509
to those nurseries and hear those wonderful stories
00:14:39.509 --> 00:14:45.919
well done that staff member It's just, it takes
00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:48.279
confidence, doesn't it? One, to have the discussion
00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:51.039
in the first place. Two, to think outside the
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.220
box to, you know, be proactive for the child's
00:14:54.220 --> 00:14:56.980
development, but also... you know support mum
00:14:56.980 --> 00:15:00.200
with the with the task that she's got we've got
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.779
um a bespoke curriculum and part of it is we
00:15:02.779 --> 00:15:05.360
we have what we call five principles and one
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.480
of them is child development and the other one
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.740
is working with the families um and when we look
00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.580
at those child development kind of statements
00:15:12.580 --> 00:15:15.299
or best fit that we are looking for for the child
00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:17.899
to see if they are progressing at what the expected
00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:23.360
developmental rate um i say that loosely um we
00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:25.779
kind of look we one of the main questions we
00:15:25.779 --> 00:15:28.500
ask is what is happening at home and if a child
00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:30.679
isn't moving forwards or developing in a certain
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.340
area that we would expect one of the questions
00:15:33.340 --> 00:15:35.820
we pose to the staff members and to the key person
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.320
is why might that be what else do you know about
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:40.399
that child and that's where that conversation
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.080
came from and they said actually they are slightly
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.179
behind with their gross motor skills but I do
00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.039
know that mum brings them to nursery every day
00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.080
in a bush chair and that's where that conversation
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.179
started and it's about empowering staff as well
00:15:53.179 --> 00:15:55.460
to you know it's It's not just their responsibility
00:15:55.460 --> 00:15:58.580
to ensure this child is well developed. Yeah,
00:15:58.620 --> 00:16:01.320
of course. Fundamentally, it's their parents'
00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.019
responsibility, isn't it? Who then, you know,
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:07.539
ask you to support them with that during their
00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:09.740
time at nursery. Yeah, absolutely. So you've
00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:12.039
got to include them within that. And I think,
00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:14.360
again, that comes down from the very first moment
00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:15.899
that they come to your nursery is explaining
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:18.120
that curriculum to the family so they understand
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:20.940
what you're working towards. We also have a guide
00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:24.360
for every time we have different... moons as
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:27.759
we call them um and each development development
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.120
milestone they get to so we have four development
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.480
milestones that we identify we almost do like
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.720
a like a two -year check when a child's two we
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.139
do one at one at two at three and at four to
00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:39.399
make sure that we are double checking that children
00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.919
are making the expected progress and if not what
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.669
are we doing about it Do we then speak to the
00:16:44.669 --> 00:16:46.230
families about those? So that's how we come up
00:16:46.230 --> 00:16:48.230
with that. But each time they go through that
00:16:48.230 --> 00:16:50.669
developmental change, it's explaining that to
00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:54.570
the families. So your baby is now a teenie moon.
00:16:54.710 --> 00:16:56.850
So what does that mean? What can you expect from
00:16:56.850 --> 00:16:58.629
their development? What can you do to support
00:16:58.629 --> 00:17:01.090
that development? Taking them on that journey.
00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:03.769
Don't just expect them to understand child development.
00:17:04.349 --> 00:17:06.869
You need to guide them through that. I think
00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:08.849
that's what happens with a lot of families as
00:17:08.849 --> 00:17:10.369
well, isn't it? Like with that two -year check,
00:17:10.450 --> 00:17:13.150
you get a lot of questions of, What can your
00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:15.950
child do? Can your child do this yet? But there
00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:17.970
aren't many questions or many places you find
00:17:17.970 --> 00:17:20.849
out this is what comes next for your child and
00:17:20.849 --> 00:17:23.009
this is what you will start to see happening.
00:17:23.329 --> 00:17:25.930
A parent just sees that expectation of can your
00:17:25.930 --> 00:17:30.859
child do this? It gives a bit of fear, doesn't
00:17:30.859 --> 00:17:33.740
it? Yeah, definitely. Whereas we do it in what
00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:35.799
we call like a positive assessment where we say,
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.019
actually, your child's reached all of these wonderful
00:17:38.019 --> 00:17:40.579
milestones. Here's what to look out for next.
00:17:40.779 --> 00:17:43.000
And here's some ways that you can support them
00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.700
at home too. And this is what we'll be doing
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:48.900
at nursery. So it's a different way. I know when
00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:51.640
we go back to being key people, you just have...
00:17:52.129 --> 00:17:54.329
personally i used to have my list of key children
00:17:54.329 --> 00:17:56.190
and my tick list of what i was going to do next
00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:58.990
for them and color bar oh goodness me it's like
00:17:58.990 --> 00:18:01.190
it's the stuff of nightmares now isn't it but
00:18:01.190 --> 00:18:03.789
you know you go you go back to this but actually
00:18:03.789 --> 00:18:06.630
that mindset has completely shifted now and everything
00:18:06.630 --> 00:18:09.089
we do is is around that positive assessment of
00:18:09.089 --> 00:18:10.829
look at all these wonderful things your child
00:18:10.829 --> 00:18:13.650
has achieved here's what what you can do next
00:18:13.650 --> 00:18:16.609
or what to expect next and i think if you can
00:18:16.609 --> 00:18:18.329
take if you can break that down even smaller
00:18:18.329 --> 00:18:20.660
so if you've got a child that parents may be
00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:22.440
worried that they're not walking yet break that
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:24.720
down and show well they pulled themselves up
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.539
today so this this is that a step towards that
00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:29.920
so celebrating that and explaining to them that
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:31.220
actually this means they're going to get to that
00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:33.079
we all have that when they're getting getting
00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:34.640
ready to go to school and they go but they're
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.059
not writing their name that's okay because they
00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:40.319
can do they recognize their name they are look
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.359
at this beautiful drawing they've just done and
00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:45.700
explain to the families that these are all things
00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:47.900
that you're working towards so when they were
00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:49.640
building up that when they're rolling around
00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:51.519
and crawling the babies they're already on their
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.160
journey to learning to write their name help
00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.059
them understand that and you know and also you
00:18:57.059 --> 00:18:59.430
know it's about Getting the message out there
00:18:59.430 --> 00:19:01.809
to parents, I think, as well is that, you know,
00:19:01.809 --> 00:19:03.430
when they finish with you at the end of their
00:19:03.430 --> 00:19:06.750
preschool year, that's not that curriculum finished.
00:19:07.009 --> 00:19:10.650
They've got another year of it to go. You know,
00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:12.609
it's not, you know, they shouldn't be, you know,
00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:14.930
achieving all these, you know, early learning
00:19:14.930 --> 00:19:17.130
goals and, you know, coming to the end of this
00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:19.529
curriculum, you know, and that's why reception
00:19:19.529 --> 00:19:22.390
is called reception because, you know, it's they're
00:19:22.390 --> 00:19:24.890
getting ready. You know, they're finishing off
00:19:24.890 --> 00:19:26.730
all those building blocks that, you know, the
00:19:26.730 --> 00:19:30.910
EYFS puts in place to begin their learning journey
00:19:30.910 --> 00:19:35.329
in year one. And I just think, you know, I think
00:19:35.329 --> 00:19:38.369
a lot of parents are under the illusion that
00:19:38.369 --> 00:19:40.609
they start school and they start a different
00:19:40.609 --> 00:19:42.769
curriculum, you know, in a different learning
00:19:42.769 --> 00:19:44.789
path. And that's why they should, you know, be
00:19:44.789 --> 00:19:47.519
able to write the name. tie their shoelaces,
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.299
you know, and sit for 20 minutes on a carpet,
00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.279
you know, and just not move. It's, you know,
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.259
it's not that, is it? And if you spend that time
00:19:57.259 --> 00:19:59.220
explaining to families that actually, no, they're
00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:00.920
not sitting down on the carpet for that time
00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:02.880
at the moment because their pelvis won't allow
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.400
them to, then it's okay for them to understand
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.660
that. So I think, just again, take them on the
00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:11.200
journey, help them understand. We don't call
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.940
it school readiness, do we? No. It's the child's
00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:16.420
journey to school. Oh, that's nice. Because it
00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:19.119
is, and we don't want the child, the school shouldn't,
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.019
they shouldn't be ready for the school, the school
00:20:21.019 --> 00:20:23.220
should be ready for them. Yeah, that's nice.
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:25.640
And it is about their journey. And that, you
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:27.319
know, this is something we are working on at
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.000
the moment. We're looking through all of our
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.599
documents to make them. even more supportive
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.019
of families because we want families to understand
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:37.039
that they're not going to be leaving us writing
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:39.759
their names perfectly, tying their shoelaces
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:42.440
and sitting on the carpet for a long time. With
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.519
their legs crossed. But they can negotiate with
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.160
their friends when they're over conflict. They
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.119
can recognise their own belongings. They can
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.720
probably put their shoes and coat on and zip
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.970
it up. Ask for help. They can ask for help. absolutely
00:20:56.970 --> 00:21:00.029
sharing their feelings that is so important it's
00:21:00.029 --> 00:21:02.910
a huge one so they will be doing so much stuff
00:21:02.910 --> 00:21:06.990
that is that they need the foundations and actually
00:21:06.990 --> 00:21:08.910
if you speak to if you speak to the teachers
00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:10.509
at school that's what they want them to be able
00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:14.410
to do it's just it's just headlines get get them
00:21:14.410 --> 00:21:16.829
worried yeah it is you know and it's you know
00:21:16.829 --> 00:21:20.569
it's it's and it's unfair And it's unfair for
00:21:20.569 --> 00:21:22.490
the sector, though, as well, that we're trying
00:21:22.490 --> 00:21:24.910
to, you know, really push. And the government's,
00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:27.849
you know, attempting to get behind it as well.
00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:30.910
You know, with the courier drive. I saw them
00:21:30.910 --> 00:21:32.829
on a bus near me. I was walking past. I said,
00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:36.950
what's that? It's everywhere, isn't it? But then
00:21:36.950 --> 00:21:40.609
headlines that, you know, this huge percentage
00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:43.809
of children aren't school readiness. Yeah. Then
00:21:43.809 --> 00:21:46.470
just puts a, you know, a big bucket of water
00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:49.000
on it, you know. on the sector that we're trying
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:55.140
to empower. 100%. It's almost trying to undermine
00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:57.380
what we're doing and what we're working towards.
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:00.299
And actually, again, we just need to remember
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:02.859
they're children and they are learning at such
00:22:02.859 --> 00:22:06.680
a fast pace and the world is so big for them.
00:22:07.289 --> 00:22:09.029
We just need to take a moment and just enjoy
00:22:09.029 --> 00:22:11.069
those steps that they go through before they
00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:12.630
get to that world of school. The time goes so
00:22:12.630 --> 00:22:17.230
fast as well, doesn't it? We're a lot more informed
00:22:17.230 --> 00:22:20.069
sector as well now, aren't we? If you think back
00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:24.150
to when I first started, there was no separate
00:22:24.150 --> 00:22:28.670
person. um safeguarding there was no separate
00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:32.430
person responsible for special educational needs
00:22:32.430 --> 00:22:35.589
and things like that but we're getting more informed
00:22:35.589 --> 00:22:37.930
you know when we're getting more professional
00:22:37.930 --> 00:22:41.869
um social media as well as you know you don't
00:22:41.869 --> 00:22:43.970
switch off from the sector you know anywhere
00:22:43.970 --> 00:22:47.250
go home and it's on my social media more informed
00:22:47.250 --> 00:22:50.970
as well you know and we are identifying a lot
00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:54.960
earlier any little issues or any little bits
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.680
of, you know, any areas that a child is behind,
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:01.240
you know, we're identifying them a lot earlier
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:04.059
in the child's life so support can be put in
00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:06.660
place. You know, so does that mean that that
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:09.640
child's not school ready? Would that child be
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.420
in a step that they were school ready because
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:15.299
nothing was identified, you know, so many years
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.980
ago? You know, it's hard, isn't it? But I just
00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:22.630
think... Sometimes these stats and these headlines
00:23:22.630 --> 00:23:27.210
are not helping our sector or our children and,
00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:30.769
you know, families that are trying their best,
00:23:30.910 --> 00:23:34.789
you know, to support children's development.
00:23:35.309 --> 00:23:39.670
And I think as well, another extra level of work
00:23:39.670 --> 00:23:41.970
that early years has to do now is sometimes those
00:23:41.970 --> 00:23:44.950
waiting lists can be quite significant to get
00:23:44.950 --> 00:23:48.039
them additional support. So that's where... they
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:49.500
can't just wait for that support they have to
00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:51.619
put that support in and they do what they can
00:23:51.619 --> 00:23:54.579
do for those children and being able to know
00:23:54.579 --> 00:23:56.579
where to go for that information go where to
00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:59.440
go for that guidance and help that that child's
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.200
journey once they've identified that there's
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:06.740
an area of area of additional needs I don't want
00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:09.099
to say additional need, but what that child needs.
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.059
Because it's for that child's individual. Yeah,
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:15.480
exactly. It's what that child needs. And we can't
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.000
just stop and wait for that referral. You change
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.500
what you need to do to support that child now.
00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:23.059
And again, it's so different in terms of local
00:24:23.059 --> 00:24:25.559
authority again, isn't it? Because some local
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.799
authorities will have a fantastic support that's
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.059
available for children that do have an additional
00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:34.700
need or need an independent. journey or you know
00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:36.920
that support that's needed but unfortunately
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:39.039
there are still other local authorities and we
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.240
know this with our network where The nurseries
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.480
are asking and asking for support for a family
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:45.799
or for a child and the local authority either
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:48.220
hasn't got the money or just doesn't have its
00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:50.759
own support team to be able to offer that. So
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:54.140
location, again, is a big factor into the support
00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:57.819
or potentially the future that that child could
00:24:57.819 --> 00:24:59.960
have depending on what support that can be given
00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:00.660
at this stage. And that's where that gap gets
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:03.119
bigger, doesn't it? We are sadly in a postcode
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.819
lottery of SEND support. We really are. We see
00:25:06.819 --> 00:25:09.799
massive differences to one area to another. Some
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.200
nurseries are waiting 18 months, others are waiting
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.660
a couple of months. So it's a real difference
00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:18.299
to where they are. And actually, as a parent,
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:20.619
you're then thinking, do I need to move to get
00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:24.039
my child the support that they need? And again,
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:25.920
that's going to be difficult for some families.
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:28.519
Then it comes back, doesn't it, to your leadership
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:30.480
and management again? It really does. In terms
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.980
of them researching themselves to implement their...
00:25:35.230 --> 00:25:38.069
practice and support that that child may need
00:25:38.069 --> 00:25:40.089
yeah so not only your early years professional
00:25:40.089 --> 00:25:42.670
you're also now having to retrain as a senko
00:25:42.670 --> 00:25:45.210
and oh there's so many different hats as a nursing
00:25:45.210 --> 00:25:49.150
manager so many different different roles for
00:25:49.150 --> 00:25:53.150
them but yeah we do we do see a real a real difference
00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:55.289
for different postcodes don't know which is huge
00:25:56.059 --> 00:25:59.039
heartbreaking really um but it's it does go back
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.839
to that support that you offer the families and
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:02.880
how well do you know them you know how well do
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.900
you get to know those families you know they
00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:07.940
don't just drop their children off and go to
00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:09.819
work each morning you know it's more than that
00:26:09.819 --> 00:26:12.039
it's you're almost in a partnership with that
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.119
family of supporting that child and them on their
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:17.809
journey with you i think that comes Back to the
00:26:17.809 --> 00:26:21.470
new EYFS as well, and what I see is the inspection
00:26:21.470 --> 00:26:24.869
framework coming into place as well. And I've
00:26:24.869 --> 00:26:27.730
read it quite a few times now, and as being an
00:26:27.730 --> 00:26:30.970
ex -Ofsted inspector, you think, yeah, that's
00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:34.069
the path you're going down. But I can see there's
00:26:34.069 --> 00:26:38.769
going to be a real emphasis on your special educational
00:26:38.769 --> 00:26:41.910
needs children, your children living in poverty,
00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:45.730
your deprived children, any child with a minority.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:50.380
You know, so, you know, it's all about this narrowing
00:26:50.380 --> 00:26:53.680
the gap, whatever the gap may be on whether it's
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:58.440
SEN, you know, social, economical, you know,
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:01.819
you're only going to be as good as your weakest,
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.140
you know. as your weakest child or family, you
00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:06.839
know, and the one that needs the most support.
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.460
And that's going to be tough, isn't it? I think
00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:12.319
for some nurses it will be tough, but I think
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.099
you'll have other nurses that will rise to it.
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.099
Absolutely. I mean, we've got some wonderful
00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:19.960
stories of nurses already that we have three
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.660
wellbeing pledges and one of them is how we support
00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:26.099
families. And we've already got nurses that...
00:27:27.069 --> 00:27:28.930
I know nursery managers have taken the family
00:27:28.930 --> 00:27:30.869
to the food bank because rather than them having
00:27:30.869 --> 00:27:33.109
to put it on the bus and take it home and they've
00:27:33.109 --> 00:27:36.029
arranged to do things like that. So those sorts
00:27:36.029 --> 00:27:37.970
of nurseries are already rising to it and doing
00:27:37.970 --> 00:27:39.789
it and they're supporting those families as best
00:27:39.789 --> 00:27:43.130
as they can. But for nurseries where it's not
00:27:43.130 --> 00:27:45.839
been something that they've had... had to do
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.900
that much it's going to be a big change for them
00:27:47.900 --> 00:27:50.240
so I think it's about you know reading those
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.440
good stories that are happening that's good that
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:54.140
beautiful work that's happening out there already
00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:56.299
and thinking how can I make this work for my
00:27:56.299 --> 00:27:58.859
nursery if you're a small nursery that's you
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.500
know you could be a pack -away nursery that's
00:28:00.500 --> 00:28:03.039
going to be hard for you to do and I think it
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.769
all it comes back to again doesn't it that as
00:28:05.769 --> 00:28:08.769
you call it, the professional curiosity. You're
00:28:08.769 --> 00:28:11.349
not being nosy, you're not being intrusive, if
00:28:11.349 --> 00:28:14.589
it's done correctly, and with empathy. It's about
00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:17.150
empowering a child and a family, isn't it? Yeah,
00:28:17.150 --> 00:28:19.170
it really is. That family needs to know that
00:28:19.170 --> 00:28:20.970
you don't just want the best for the child, you
00:28:20.970 --> 00:28:23.029
want the best for the whole family. Yeah, and
00:28:23.029 --> 00:28:25.630
no judgment, isn't it? Yeah, no judgment, absolutely.
00:28:27.309 --> 00:28:31.809
It's a skill. It is. Another skill. Another hat.
00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:36.349
For your industry manager. Yeah, definitely.
00:28:36.630 --> 00:28:38.470
Thank you for joining me today. It's been some
00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:41.269
really great discussions. Thank you very much
00:28:41.269 --> 00:28:42.910
for having us. We've loved it, haven't we? Yeah,
00:28:42.910 --> 00:28:43.630
thank you for having us.