From Miserable Engineer to 400 Real Estate Deals | Mike DeHaan

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I don't really think I care about cash flow anymore because I just got a forty thousand dollar check.
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You're not saying don't have passive income.
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You're not saying no to that.
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You're just saying, well, that's not the strategy.
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The strategy is We've done about 400 off-market transactions since the middle of 2020.
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It comes out to about almost like a deal every business day for the last couple of years.
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There's been a couple of calls where you get in, you're like, this does not happen in the everyday business.
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Um we had a seller get abducted from a closing by like a squatter that was living on the property, didn't want him to sell.
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I had a landlord and a tenant get into a fist fight at the property.
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But the crazy thing about that is they were both women in their 80s.
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And so it was like Jerry Springer style.
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Like, yeah.
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What's up, everybody?
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Welcome back to Gathering the Kings Podcast.
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I'm your host, Chaz Wolfe, and today I've got a king on the stage who is in the real estate industry, Mike Dehan, who is the owner and podcast host of Collecting Keys.
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Today, on this show, we go through an incredible conversation as we discuss your mindset and how it's wrong on passive income and how it's flawed.
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We talk about cash flow myths, we talk about real estate horror stories.
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This episode is an absolute must-watch for any of you looking for the real deal on real estate investing or just how you can get started in real estate investing.
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Maybe you just need a mindset boost around engineering the life that you really want.
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Make sure you subscribe and hit that like button for me.
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Drop a comment below.
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It helps us bring amazing guests like Mike back to the stage every single time.
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Enjoy the show.
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All right, Mike, welcome to the King Stage.
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I appreciate you being here today.
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Welcome, welcome, welcome.
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Awesome.
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Yeah, thanks, Chaz.
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I uh really appreciate you having me on, and it's really nice to meet you.
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Yeah, man.
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This is gonna be fun because I get to do these shows with a lot of great professionals.
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But not only have you developed a wonderful uh real estate investing business, I'll get to that here in a second, but you've got an incredible podcast as well.
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So we get to kind of rip back and forth here as kind of two fellow hosts, which is always fun.
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So tell us, Mike, what kind of business do you have first?
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And we'll start with that.
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Yeah, so I have a off-market real estate acquisition business.
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And there's a few different parts to that, but the core of it is that we focus on direct-to-seller real estate acquisitions, usually working with distressed or highly motivated sellers in some capacity, whether that's because of distressed property or financial situations or personal situations or complex legal situations.
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You know, we I guess the little niche that we have in real estate isn't necessarily about the assets, but more about the opportunities that we can create by working with people that have these complex problems.
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Yeah.
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I love the the solving people's problems kind of just notion to business in general.
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Typically, when you solve big problems, um, big results come.
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What is that for you?
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Because you didn't say single family, you didn't say multifamily, you didn't say commercial.
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And I've, you know, I've done a little research on some of your your your content, and and it's a little bit all over, I think, right?
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So like tell us why that is and maybe press into this complex of helping people with their situations.
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At its core, what we are is we're a marketing and sales business, right?
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But real estate's kind of the collateral that we use to get paid.
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And, you know, the the notion of you need to be like totally specialized in one kind of real estate, I think is a little bit of like a limiting view that people put on themselves.
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Because if you understand kind of the fundamentals of just like most basic level of real estate values, you don't have to be like an absolute professional to make money with different kinds of assets.
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You kind of do if you're going to own them for the long term, which we do own a decent little portfolio, mostly of residential properties.
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But when you're doing this direct to seller marketing and you are conversing with a large range of people that have assets that they need to sell, you can find ways to monetize those in a very, very broad fashion, right?
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Whether that is through doing wholesaling via assignments, which is kind of like our core, you can flip properties that are relatively simply, you can set them up to do realtor referrals or like get paid referral fees by large buyers and large operators that are slightly different from assignments because they're usually more sophisticated.
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And if you can develop just like the ability to identify opportunity, you can usually monetize it.
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And so when I say we're a marketing and sales business, it's because we don't necessarily focus on how to like find the perfect asset.
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But when we find people that have these assets they need to part with, we try to figure out well, how can we find somebody that this deal makes sense for so that we can monetize it one way or another?
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Yeah, I love that breakdown.
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I mean, really, you know, the the moving pieces there, the value that you're offering is what a lot of people do.
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It's like, hey, I've I've got this thing and I'm gonna find somebody that needs this thing and I'm gonna bring them together, right?
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I don't always have to make the thing, I don't always have to be the guy that needs the thing, but if I can just put these two people together, right?
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Um it's like an oversimplification, but it really is how a lot of businesses work.
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So I appreciate you kind of giving that rundown.
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Why real estate for you?
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I mean, I've heard you talk about how you've tried several businesses, and but real estate was kind of like the first one that kicked off for you.
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Why do you think that that was?
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So I guess like my my backstory a little bit with that is I didn't come from like a real estate background.
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I started my adult life like most people do.
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I went to college, I got an engineering degree, I was on like the W-2 path, and I was an engineer actually for five years.
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And then in, you know, I was miserable the entire time.
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I did not like it at all.
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After five years of that, I decided to just make a change.
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And you know, I was in basically a deep depression for four and a half out of those five years.
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And one day I was driving to work and I was just in dead silence in the car, and I just like had this thought, and I called my wife and I was like, I think I need to quit my job.
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And she was like, Well, would you be happier if you did that?
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And I said, Yeah, probably.
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It's like, well, what are you gonna do?
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I said, I don't know.
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And I went and I quit my job that day, and I didn't really have any plan or anything else.
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And all I knew was that I wanted to do something different, and by leaving that that career, right, sort of jumping off the cliff and building the parachute on the way down, it forced me to start learning about business and wealth generation.
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And all I knew was that I wanted to have some level of control over my time and some upward momentum in my financial position that having a salary was not going to give me.
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And real estate came around mostly because it was such a recurring theme in every single business and wealth generation book.
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And so when I left, like literally I went from you know making low six figures as somebody in my mid-20s to like making nothing.
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I was working in a gym and driving for Uber and doing like odd jobs on Facebook, and then the real estate stuff just seemed like a very tangible like move forward because kind of talked about it.
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Real estate's obviously an abundant resource, and there's so many different like networks and people in place that like want you to complete transactions that it was just an easy thing to sort of move into.
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I love it.
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I are you it's it's uh from a from a bird's eye view, I've seen this very analytical person analyze but completely jump off the cliff with no thought at all.
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So it's like, do you have like this split ability?
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When you say engineer, I just think of so many people that are just so process-oriented.
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I even know of an engineer right now who recently just left, but it took like a lot to get him there, which is more typical of that of that maybe profile.
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But you have both, like you jumped, but like on the way down, you were thinking, what works, what doesn't work, what's the system, what can I do?
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You know, it's like you're super fast on the way down before you crashed, right?
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Like, is this kind of like a two-split for you?
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A little bit.
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So, like, I I was never the right archetype for an engineer.
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Like, honestly, I went down that route because I was good at math when I was in high school, and when I started college 2009, it's right, you know, right in the midst of the recession, and it was a job that I knew I was going to be able to get very easily and was going to have decent starting pay.
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And that's what mattered to me when I was, you know, 18, when they tell us to plan out the rest of our life, which doesn't make any sense, but that's what we do, right?
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In this in the United States, and so I sort of forced myself into that field.
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And then as I was in there, honestly, as an engineer, I would constantly struggle with the fact that I wasn't analytical enough.
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Okay.
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And what I would always be doing, my wife always sort of teases me about this how I'm like a professional life hacker, is I would always be just looking for ways to make my job as an engineer as easy as possible without having to do as much work.
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And so the analytical systemization part of it, I guess, has always sort of forced me to have kind of like a high risk tolerance because I was always like, Well, I'm going to sort of risk it all, like risk my job to do this thing really simply, mostly because I just hated it and I was trying to make things easier.
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And then when I, you know, jumped off the cliff to sort of figure stuff out, I knew sort of how to solve complex problems because I had forced myself to do that through my engineering career.
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And so I knew that if I just like worked for long enough, things would eventually come together in some way, right?
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But honestly, like it was slightly out of desperation because I was just in such a bad spot mentally that I needed to make a change or it was gonna be a problem.
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Yeah.
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I love that breakdown too, because you're right.
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I mean, most entrepreneurs have that, like I didn't fit, and so I just jumped, or you know, sometimes they jump a little slower.
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But for the most part, you know, the ones that that I can see and the hundreds that I've interviewed, it's like I was a square peg and a round hole, and I just couldn't figure it out.
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So I appreciate that that backdrop.
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What do you think now, like looking back years and years now of a successful business, of that engineering, kind of like you you forced yourself into that math and process, and maybe even some of the maybe lazy intelligence that you have of making things easier?
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How has that helped you specifically in your business and maybe just in wealth generation?
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Yeah, so like a lot of the small things that people tend to spend a lot of time on, mostly around like marketing systems or trying to configure their plat their software platforms or you know, the back-end side of stuff that people spend a lot on.
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I guess A, I was kind of able to do that a little bit faster than people that don't have kind of a technical background, but also too, I think because I understood like the flexibility of those things, I was willing to allow more of those things to sort of live in the gray.
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And so when I was starting out, you always hear people like I mean, there's whole brands about this, about like how you need to just take action, you start overthinking and do all these things.
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I guess I kind of naturally had that, and I still do, and I've always been like an action first and then you know plan things out later kind of person, which has just been emphasized even more since I walked away from my career.
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Right.
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The point that, like, and even now, like with my wife or my friends, if I like bring up an idea about something that I would like to do, or like you know, a trip or something we're gonna go, my wife already knows that I've actually already booked it and I'm just telling her about it right now.
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Like we're we're already we're already done.
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I don't know, I don't even know what we're gonna do when we get to Central America, but we're going and we'll figure it out at the airport, right?
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Like, that's just kind of my my mentality.
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And I guess that the fact that I'm confident with solving complex problems, I'm willing to sort of like put the cart before the horse a little bit, just knowing that things will catch up and not necessarily be stressed about it.
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Yeah.
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What do you think that that's done for her and or your marriage?
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Because it that could be a recipe for disaster, but it it hasn't been, or or or or yeah.
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Nah, I mean it's it's not well.
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I'm I'm very fortunate in the way that you know my my wife is like low-key.
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Like I am definitely like the driver, and she is you know happy to be along for the ride.
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And she's an artist, so she's like an artist personality where I'm definitely like the high D on the disc profile.
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Sure.
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And so, you know, it it actually works out pretty easily.
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Yeah, she's she I'm gonna take it as long as you just give her just maybe a little bit of notice on South on Central America, maybe like a day, yeah, you know, just pack a bag, maybe, you know.
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Yeah, well, we always gotta plan out because you know, we gotta figure out what we're doing with the pets, and that's always a thing is you know, we gotta make sure the dog sitter is able to take the dog and someone's gonna be able to come in and they feed the cat and all those sort of things.
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But outside of that, I mean we're generally pretty flexible.
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So that's funny.
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It makes me think of a I think it was our fourth wedding anniversary.
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Julie and I have been married for 16 years this year, coming up in May.
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And so eight years ago, four years in, I surprised her, I call her.
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Actually, it was in front of my sales team at the time because I wanted them to see her reaction.
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And so I said, Hey, it was like Tuesday morning.
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Hey, calling you from work.
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And she's like, What's going on?
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Everything okay?
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I'm like, Yeah, tomorrow we're going to Mexico.
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Pack your bag today.
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She's like, Wait, what?
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You know, so it was kind of fun like that.
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But we have four kids now and like 30-something chickens and some cats and dogs, and to your point, like, zero chance that's working.
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So we've got the family mastermind that we do with all the families, part of our community, and some others that come out.
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And so that's like well in advance.
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We got everything lined out.
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Looks a little different when when the family grows a little bit.
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So um let's talk, let's let's keep this vein of just creative thinking and doing things a little different.
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You you kind of have a thing right now, like a little itch that you've been scratching around passive income and some limiting beliefs.
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You you say you think about it differently than most.
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What is passive income to you, and how do you think about it?
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Yeah, so this is something I've been talking about a lot on different shows and on social media.
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And I guess my sort of hot take when it comes to passive income and financial freedom is that people use their I would say like their goal, these like financial freedom numbers or the passive income numbers, as an excuse to not take like big risks or do things that are actually hard.
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And give us an example of what that looks like, yeah.
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So, like all the time you see people that are saying, like, I cannot leave, and this will be like a high earning W-2 employee that has money in the bank, and they are saying, like, I cannot risk anything in business or leaving my W-2 until I have enough passive income to replace my W-2 income.
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And I'm like, Well, you make$200,000 a year, it's gonna take a shit ton of properties.
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I don't know if I can swear in here, sorry.
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It's gonna take a ton of properties to replace that, right?
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And I know you've been doing this career for 15 years, you must have some savings.
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I know you have a 401k.
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Why on earth, if you really are motivated to leave your career, spend time with your family and your friends and travel and do all these things, do you honestly need to get past the incredible feat of getting$200,000 a year in passive income?
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When if those things were actually important to you, you would leave right now and figure it out.
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Okay, you already have a job where you're making real money.
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The worst case is you can always go back and do that again, right?
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But with any sort of level of drive, you should be able to just take the leap, take the leap, live off your savings a little bit if you have to.
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You probably have enough to live for six, eight, twelve, twenty founds, but like they just they're just not willing to do that because they're fascinated by this thought and like the comfort of having regular monthly money come into their bank account, which is not honestly needed to live a you know successful or fruitful life.
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You know, it's interesting that you say that because well, first off, you're spot on, and and really the person that you're talking about is not willing to be a quote unquote entrepreneur.
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An entrepreneur is someone who's willing to take a risk that's maybe not going to work out for layman's terms.
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Okay, so that's not a real entrepreneur, but they see value in creatively creating more income or passive income, maybe an investment strategy for their retirement.
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Like they're just thinking about it differently.
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But I am I am curious because you know,$200,000, like that, that automatically puts somebody in the top, probably 10, maybe even 5% income earners in America.
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And so the way I see it is that person who's making, you know, 150,0200, 300,000, they just aren't willing to lower their lifestyle for a period of six months, a year, two years, five years, right?
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Would you agree with that?
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Yeah, I I think that's a big part of it.
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And I also think that people, like if we're being completely honest, they get into those sort of roles.
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They come from a position where they've never had to like live a simplistic lifestyle, or you know, they've gone through school, they've always had a very linear path.
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And having something that feels a little bit more turbulent is very uncomfortable to them.
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And the comfort is really what their desire, right?
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They say what they want is financial freedom and they want to be able to do, you know, all these different things in their life.
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But like, in order to have that, you kind of have to give up comfort, right?
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And that's something that I don't think most people realize.
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Like their view of financial freedom is I just have money that just lands in my inbox, and I can go and you know, sit on the beach and drink margaritas or go to the park with my kids on a random Tuesday afternoon or whatever, which is true to an extent.
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But everyone that has built any sort of like passive portfolio or built any sort of business that they're able to pull real money off of, they know that in order to get that, you have to have either a very turbulent time to get to that, or you're going to have turbulence during that process of just maintaining that passive income, right?
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Like whether even if it's a real estate portfolio, everyone knows it's not truly passive, right?
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You always are gonna have things that go up, you're gonna have months where you make way less money than you do in other months.
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If you have a business, you're gonna have like that key hire that quits.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:43.839
You know, you're going to have an issue with one of your vendors is going to affect things, and that's kind of part of it.
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:58.000
And it it's a just I don't think people that are fully bought into like the passive income sort of, I don't want to say like myth, because it's definitely a real thing, but are bought into that view, they fully understand what it actually takes to get there.
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.880
When or and and how honestly, I don't think that's possible if you kind of have one foot in, one foot out.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:20.720
Yeah, I think that's the crux that you're that you're leaning on, going, look, man, if if this is really what you want, no matter kind of how it exists, whether it's truly passive or a little bit turbulent, if that's what you're saying that you want, money that comes in fairly automatically, fairly regularly, with with little or no effort, okay.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.640
Well, it's gonna take some effort.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:23.839
And I think this is just the value.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:30.880
I mean, as an engineer, you could probably break this down in a like a like a professional way as opposed to the the uneducated chaz over here.
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.640
But I just see it input-output.
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:39.599
Like at some point, whether it's passive income or a big business, like the result that you're looking for takes a formula.
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.920
Whatever that formula is, there's a part of that that's time and work.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:57.519
And so it's almost like they're trying to skip over that to be able to get to the thing, but because they don't really want to do that, they're just gonna stay in their comfortable place, which is the job, which it gives them this false regular piece, but they could lose their job tomorrow.
00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:58.400
You and I both know that.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:18:59.599
And they're not gonna be able to do that.
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:00.960
It happens all the time.
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:01.759
Yeah, right.
00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:14.400
Like, you know, especially if you work in tech or some of these different things, like you have these people that were making$250,000 a year that thought that their lives were set, that were living at the max end of their means, and they showed up a ton over the past 12 months, right?
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.880
They showed up one day and they're like, Cool, you no longer work here anymore.
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:17.519
Bye.
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:23.359
And not only that, but none of those other companies, none of the other tech companies want those people because they're all doing the same freaking thing.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:28.160
Yeah, you know, and if you don't have any sort of control of your own situation, like you're always at risk.
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:36.640
And I guess just for context for people too, like when I left my my W-2, you know, my me and my wife's income, it dropped by about 75%.
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:45.359
Okay, so it's not like my wife was like a dentist where she was making a quarter million dollars a year, and like we were still just like living within, you know, our our sort of very comfortable lifestyle.
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:51.440
But we went from making, I guess you're making probably about 160 grand a year as like a household mid-20s.
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:53.119
We were very comfortable.
00:19:53.359 --> 00:20:06.559
And we went from making basically$40,000 a year, which is what my wife made at that point, and we had to go from going out to restaurants, being able to travel, being able to do what we wanted to do, to counting coupons, doing free activities.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.599
Like if there was some place we wanted to trash and we want to do, we'd be looking for like a group on for it, right?
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:20.000
Like that's what we had to do, but we were also able to do that because within those five years as an engineer, I'd been living well below my means.
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:27.359
I had$100,000 in the bank and savings, I'd built up a 401k, and I'd made those intentional steps at that point.
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:33.680
And I also knew that by reducing our costs, we were able to live pretty close to my wife's income, right?
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.079
Where our spend was about the same as that.
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:44.640
And for us to have to start digging into our savings, if my wife kept her job and we had the savings, we could go for a very long time.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:51.119
And even if she lost her job at that point, we were so accustomed to living on four grand a month that we could have lived for two years.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:21:01.839
And so I gave myself so much freedom to figure myself out and to fully dedicate, you know, my mind and my focus on the next big thing that it really wasn't risky at all.
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.920
Because also, worst case, I still have that engineering degree.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.319
I can just go back and get another engineering job at some point.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.480
Hey, kings and queens, Jazz Wolf.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:10.880
I want to talk to you about something that's super important to me.
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:18.640
We put a lot of time and effort, we meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day.
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:25.039
And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:38.400
So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:44.079
We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:50.640
Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights.
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:51.599
So let's do this.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.119
Let's help each other grow.
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:53.759
Yep.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:54.160
Yeah.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:55.039
It's so true.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.880
And your story uh aligns with mine.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.799
I wasn't an engineer, not nearly smart enough for that, but I was I was a great Sales guy.
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:01.920
And the same thing.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:06.240
You know, I left my very lucrative six-figure career to open up our first business.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:08.160
And my wife had her job.
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.559
And so we we had always done the same thing that you did.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.960
Just a very keen on paying attention.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.920
We still do it today.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:24.640
We still still, on a weekly basis, have a handwritten tracking of our expenses and monthly budgeting because there's power in writing it down and doing it together.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:25.839
We're on the same page.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:34.880
We're not overspending on anything because we know that there's value in doing the next deal, whatever that is, whether that's investing in a business or investing in a piece of property.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:42.640
And we both also know that truly, unless I'm gonna go invest with one of my contacts and and their fund, it's not passive.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.880
So I can call it passive because it's kinda, but you get what I'm saying.
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:53.279
So the message here for the listener, I mean, they're an entrepreneur possibly, they've already left their job.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.480
But what I'm hearing you say is don't overthink it.
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:01.759
Don't be average, don't be don't be don't make wrong choices, even in the money that you are making.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.240
Find out what you really want and go for it.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.559
Is is there more to the story there that you want to add?
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.000
I mean, fundly, it's like it's like don't be afraid of the work, right?
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:18.960
And don't be afraid of the fact that you will have to spend a lot of time doing things, making less than you probably feel like you're worth, right?
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:25.039
And there's always just shooting towards the goal and the hope that you will have asymmetrical upside when things come together.
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:25.680
Right?
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:34.640
And the thing is that you can fully control is your own effort to things, your own way that you respond to challenges.
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:42.160
And I guess the other thing too is be honest with yourself because honestly, a lot of people aren't cut out to be entrepreneurs, and that's okay.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:53.119
Just understand that people that go and get into entrepreneurship will probably make more money and will have more financial freedom than you if they're successful, but they're also less likely to be successful.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:53.759
Okay.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.920
And I like there's this, you know, entrepreneurship is so romanticized right now.
00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:58.319
Oh, yeah.
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:14.640
And I would guarantee you for even though there's like this huge thing with all these W-2 people that are really depressed and in bad mental spots, I I absolutely can guarantee that the percentage of entrepreneurs who are even in worse mental space and even more depressed is much higher, right?
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:25.440
Like honestly, because we work incredibly long hours, the the income fluctuates incredibly, there's a ton of people that fail, and that's just part of the gig.
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:34.000
But it's about building that development process, learning from your mistakes, and just doing it for long enough that you will eventually be successful.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.799
And a lot of people just don't have that, and I think that that's something that they should realize and be okay with.
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:39.359
Yeah.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:54.000
It's interesting that you use the uh kind of comparison between the entrepreneur and the W-2 because you and I both know, and I know you don't talk about it a whole bunch kind of purpose or on the front end of things, but you have you know, coaching programs, you have a community for people who want to learn to do what you do, and so I just want to give a little plug there.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:58.480
But the the community piece of what you do is exactly what Gathering the Kings is about.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:06.160
And so I've done the research on the fact that you know 71% of entrepreneurs have some level of mental stress dysfunction.
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.119
You know, there's different ways to say that, but you know, there's there's stress and overwhelm.
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:17.519
Probably that's leading people to either not be healthy in their bodies, of course, in their mind, but then bad results.
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.079
Like obviously the worst case scenario would maybe be even suicide.
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:22.799
And so it's like there's a lot of that happening in entrepreneurship.
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:33.440
And so gathering the kings exists, very similar to your community, where it's like, hey, look, like you don't have to do this alone, whether you're cut out for this, like naturally and you're kind of crazy like I am or like you are, or not.
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:38.720
Either way, having the support of others around you is key to solving that problem.
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.119
So if you will, just talk about your community for a second.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:46.000
Before we hit the record button, you were telling me about some calls that you do and just the joy that that brings you.
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.079
But talk about how you're helping these people.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:26:00.240
Yeah, so with the real estate side of business, the biggest thing that people tend to struggle with is like how exactly they build out a pipeline of like good opportunities, right?
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:06.559
And good investment opportunities and deals, and how do they like truly monetize things that are sort of outside their box?
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:15.839
And so our community is called Scale, you know, and our our whole brand with the collecting keys podcast is we teach people how to make massive income, not just passive income, through the real estate investing business.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.680
Because you know, that's the other thing too, right?
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.920
Is going back to that financial freedom piece.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:27.839
I really firmly believe that it is easier to make a million dollars than it is to replace like a high paying W-2 with passive income.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:28.960
Like honestly.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:35.039
And in order to really replace most high paying W-2s, you need to make a heck of a lot more than a million dollars.
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.400
So you might as well just learn to make real money and it'll go a lot faster.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.400
And so, you know, with my business, we've been able to be very successful.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.839
We've done about 400 off-market transactions since the middle of 2020.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.400
So, as of right now, it's in the past about three and a half years.
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:53.359
Comes out to about almost like a deal every business day for the last couple of years.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:27:00.079
We're able to do that because we focus on building that pipeline and learning to bring value to sellers and identifying those different opportunities.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:29.759
So, what we do with scale is we take people that want to buy more properties, they want to generate more wealth, and we focus on how exactly to get people calling you, how to run a sales process, how to truly analyze the different sort of exit strategies and things that are out there, whether that's a wholesale assignment, flipping the property, doing a subject to, doing innovation, whatever that looks like, and being able to be like the all-comprehensive toolbox in your business to monetize every single opportunity that comes through.
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.680
So you're not just leaving a bunch of money on the table.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:32.160
Yeah.
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:40.720
Do you find a lot of real estate investors that come to you are kind of like the one-legged flamingo that we were talking about is they only do this one or that, right?
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:42.240
Always.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:58.319
In fact, I have the same story with pretty much every single person that applies for scale, where they they come in and usually they're in some sort of like W-2 position that they're unhappy with, and they are almost always like, I've done one or two properties.
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:03.440
My goal is to they always say, I don't really want a wholesale, I don't want to flip.
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:08.640
What I want is to just buy enough rentals to have enough cash flow to be able to leave my W-2.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.880
And what I tell them is like, that's awesome.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:18.240
What we're gonna be able to do is help you get a pipeline, and you're gonna be able to buy a lot of discounted properties that way, which is gonna be great.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:38.000
But I can also tell you right now, because I have the same conversation with everybody, about three months in, you're gonna have more deals than you know how to buy, you're gonna wholesale one of these, and you're gonna make probably similar to a couple months or more of pay that you just make, and you're gonna be like, I don't really think I care about cash flow anymore, because I just got a forty thousand dollar check, right?
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:40.000
And it's gonna completely change your mindset.
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.720
And then what I tell people is like, if that doesn't sound interesting to you, then we're probably not the best fit.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:50.079
But if that's something that you want to explore, then you should definitely come check it out because that is really what we focus on at the end of the day.
00:28:50.400 --> 00:29:00.720
I think that you know, in the in the business world, or at least in my my story, it was sales, sales, sales, make as much money as possible, throw it into real estate, which is in essence what you're saying.
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:02.720
You're not saying don't have passive income.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.000
You said you have a portfolio.
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.880
You're not saying no to that, you're just saying, Well, that's not the strategy.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:13.839
The strategy is make more money, like a lot more exactly, yeah.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:23.440
And you know, and you always want to like keep the best stuff that you can find, especially if it's like a high quality asset, you know, it's a newer home, it's in like the great area, those are absolutely ones to hold on to.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:31.599
But I don't think that you should be completely just like hamstringing your own business or your own sort of financial position to do that, which is currently what people do, right?
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:38.960
Is if they're in that W-2 where they have limited earnings, they save up, they save up, they save up, they take all their savings and they dump it into the next property.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:42.559
Like the the first property they find that fits their limited buy box.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.759
And they go, Cool, well, now all of our liquidity is gone.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.039
Now we got to save for the next six months, 12 months, 18 months, two years to do the next one.
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:54.400
And we say, like, how about you build the war chest first?
00:29:54.799 --> 00:30:13.519
If good stuff does come through, you leverage debt, you leverage other people's money, you leverage partners to keep those ones, but otherwise focus on building that war chest so that you can actually give yourself the flexibility and the peace of mind to be able to actually be choosy about your investments and not buy just kind of whatever real estate deals because that's all you have at your disposal right now.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.000
Yeah.
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:15.599
Yeah, you're giving people options.
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:23.839
You know, I know that four-hour work week is a book that you've spoken highly of since you've read it, probably, but that's what I think of when I think of the four-hour work week.
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:28.160
It's just really just options, like there's just a different way to do things, and sometimes people just don't know.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.720
And so, guys like you are in the enlightenment business.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:36.240
You know, it's like, hey, you could think about this a little different, and if I showed you how to do it, even better, right?
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:37.039
What would you say?
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:39.200
Just real quick four-hour work week, how's that changed you?
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:47.039
Four-hour work week is honestly the book that I say pushed me over the edge to wanting to leave my W-2.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:51.200
So I was actually, this is my last summer of my engineering gig.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:31:03.200
I was in Hawaii with my wife and my now business partner and his wife, and I picked up the four-hour work week because it was in a podcast I'd listened to, and I was reading it, and I was like having all these epiphanies, right?
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:09.200
I was like, you know, saying to my business partner now, and I was like, bro, we don't have to go back to work next week.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:13.839
Like, like, like we could literally do this, like it's so repeatable, so simple.
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.960
It's like we could be like those these guys down here on their laptops.
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.319
It's like, I bet these guys are like making money right now, and we're just here hanging out.
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:26.640
I was like, and I remember saying to him, Imagine if we could be like them, we could go and work a couple hours and make like a thousand dollars.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.519
Wouldn't that be crazy?
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:36.160
A thousand and a thousand and sure, and sure enough, three years later, our business we'd started up and going, and we were in all in Hawaii again.
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:42.799
It was me and my wife, and him and his wife, and we got a uh seventeen thousand dollar assignment check like while we were there.
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.559
Makes it makes the perspective that all that sweeter.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:55.680
You kind of mentioned briefly your podcast, you know, it's called Collecting Keys, but tell us why your podcast, and I I'm gonna bring up some unique stuff that you're doing with it, but why is your podcast?
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:56.880
I mean, they're listening to it right now.
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.359
I've had hundreds of real estate investors on the show.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:05.839
Why should they stop listening to this specific episode, hop over to collecting keys and get start learning from you?
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:06.640
What why should they do that?
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:16.720
Yeah, so the thing that we really pride ourselves on with collecting keys and what a lot of our our listeners comment on a regular basis is we talk about what it actually takes to be successful in this, right?
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:27.680
And we really focus on the actionable things around like the building the business part and the goods and the bads, as opposed to so many different real estate shows that are just highlight reels all the time.
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:38.640
Like, you know, we'll we talk about when we lose money, you know, we talk about when things go sideways, we talk about what you actually have to put in in order to grow a business like this, because it's not easy, right?
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:48.640
Like it's an expensive business to run if you're gonna run any sort of marketing, but it has asymmetrical upside for the opportunity that you can generate, especially if you look over the lifetime that you hold some of these properties.
00:32:49.119 --> 00:33:03.920
And so many people right now that are just trying to like sell courses or sell masterminds or coaching or whatever, they just they want you to think that it's easy so that you give them you know your money, but it's just like it doesn't need to be that way.
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:07.200
And so we have a as a slightly more honest angle.
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:11.359
We are operators first, and then the podcast honestly is like a passion project.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.640
And so I think that allows us to sort of be that way.
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:29.359
But if you have any interest in wanting to build marketing systems, wanting to build sales systems, wanting to grow a real estate business that can make you, you know, wealthy and have freedom over the next couple of years instead of like over the next 20 years, like that's really what we dive into most of the time.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:33.039
Yeah, and I told this uh to you, Mike, before we got started, but this is for the listener.
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:39.680
You know, all the stuff that I've heard you talk about before today, and then even today you've mentioned it's not real estate investing, it's your real estate investing business.
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:44.319
And so inside of a business, there's systems, marketing system, sales system, operating system.
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.279
And so I think that that's just a unique approach.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:53.279
Uh, it's not unique to the industry because everybody that does what you do has a marketing or a real estate investing business.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:54.160
They just don't call it that.
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.599
They just say I'm a real estate investor.
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:57.279
It's like, well, no, there's actual business here.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.119
There's systems here, there's process here, right?
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:00.960
There is, and it's all repeatable, right?
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:01.680
To different things.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.880
And and you know, real estate isn't like the thing.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.559
Real estate's kind of like the thing to get you to the thing, right?
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.480
It's like the means to the end.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:21.920
And a lot of people, I and I think this goes back to just like the sort of general career and school system and stuff that we have, where they think that if they start something now, it needs to be something they're gonna do forever.
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.159
And I don't necessarily believe that, right?
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:28.800
Like I think that you can adapt the skills that you learn throughout your life to different things.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:33.199
And if you learn to build a real estate business, it's a very challenging business to grow.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.960
It has asymmetrical upside, like I said before, which is why people kind of get drawn to it.
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:42.079
It has the wealth generation as well as the passive income potential, as well as the large income potential, right?
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:57.920
But once you learn to build a marketing team, build a sales team, you know, network, you learn how to leverage debt, you learn how to do all these different different things, you can go and do that for like an HVAC company or a restaurant, if that's your jam, or you know, a franchise, whatever you want to do.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.079
It's the same fundamental skills.
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:15.519
And so I really like to make sure that that's clear with people, you know, that like we're not just gonna be like, this is how you buy like your next duplex, but it's like here's how you can leverage all of that to buy 20 duplexes in the next year, right, in order to reach your goals.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:16.239
Yeah, I love it.
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.440
Talking about being creative and maybe even a passion project on your podcast.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.039
You started to recently do like a cartoon podcast.
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:29.599
Tell tell us about this because I I watched one and just thought it was a little it was comical and funny, but it was very engaging.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:30.719
Tell us about it.
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.119
What is your craziest real estate investing story?
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:43.760
The only rule is you're not allowed to tell a story about discovering a dead body in a property because people always use that as their crazy story, and it just gets super depressing.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:45.280
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:55.679
We've uh, you know, this is something I've talked about for a while because in the off-market real estate world, especially when you're when you're doing wholesale stuff, you encounter a lot of crazy situations.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:01.840
You know, you're dealing with like hoarder houses, you're dealing with people that have insane living situations.
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:08.719
And one of the the questions we always ask guests that come on our show is what is your craziest real estate investing story?
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:18.159
And when we started doing that very early on in the show, I was like, we should like make a web series or something of like just these, like that we can turn into cartoons or something different.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:24.559
And you know, that was two and a half years ago that we started the show, but we're finally at a position now where it makes sense to invest some money in that.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:30.800
So we have like an animator that goes and he like picks out some of the best stores that we have, and our goal is gonna be to release.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.239
We just released the first one, but we're gonna be shooting to release one of those every single month.
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:40.239
If I'm just like the craziest stories, and the one that's coming out here in the next couple weeks is a great story about this.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:53.760
Uh I'll I'll give a little bit of a spoiler with it, but it's basically with an old guy seller who was gonna move in with his son, and then going along the way, they found out that the son actually hadn't talked to the dad in 65 years.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.559
And the the the dad was under the opinion that he would just be able to move in with his son.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:00.079
And don't worry, it has a happy ending.
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:01.679
Or whoever the guest was.
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:03.760
Yeah, whoever the guest was, yeah.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.159
It has a happy ending, but it's a pretty wild story just going into all the details with it.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:09.519
That's crazy.
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:17.039
Yeah, I I saw on the the one that I watched, I don't think it was you, but you were like in the cartoon version, you know, what's your what's your worst story?
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:20.480
And don't tell me about some dead guy that you found because everybody has one of those.
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:27.280
And it's like some people might you know listening right now, they have the HVAC company and they're going, wait a second, there's dead people in real estate?
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:27.920
What?
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:31.679
But when you buy distressed properties, there's some interesting things that come up, don't they?
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:37.039
Oh, yeah, like all the time, and you can't make up the stories, like honestly, the the crazy, crazy stuff that's happened.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:44.880
We've had like we had a seller get abducted from a closing by like a squatter that was living on the property, didn't want him to sell.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:51.199
I had a a landlord and a tenant get into a fist fight at the property.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:38:02.000
But the crazy thing about that is they were both women in their 80s, and so it was like Jerry Springer style, like yeah, and that's like while I was there with my with my sales manager that was like new to the job.
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:02.320
Oh, yeah.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:03.840
Um how long did they stick around?
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:07.440
Well, so that one that one was because we're we're in Washington State, so it's a blue state.
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:16.320
And the crazy thing is, is the landlord actually filed an assault claim against the tenant, and it still took us almost eight months to get her out of the property.
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:19.039
You know, it's it's just crazy stuff like that.
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:28.719
You know, we've had all sorts with like, you know, people like having to buy properties from people that are in jail where basically we have to schedule the call because they're allowed to make like a collect call like twice a week.
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:36.239
And so we're having to like be on the phone, like hoping that they're gonna call on time just so that we can have like the 15-minute conversation with them.
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:38.000
I mean, just all sorts of stuff, man.
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:39.280
It's it's very interesting.
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:39.840
Wow.
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:46.079
I think you know, when I when I hear of entrepreneurs and the ups and downs, you know, like, oh my gosh, I had a crazy day today.
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:51.920
I think those stories, you know, and I haven't I haven't seen a lot of that with the real estate investing that I've done.
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:53.119
But a few.
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:58.480
There's been a couple of calls where you get and you're like, this does not happen in the everyday business.
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:00.320
Um, what keeps you sharp?
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:10.559
Yeah, well, and honestly, too, as as a wholesaler, we can make very good proceeds on traditional residential houses, right?
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:22.480
Yeah, and so like it's not uncommon for us to make a$20,000 to$30,000 to$40,000 spread on like a$300,000 house versus like a realtor, if it's like a problem house like that, they're probably not gonna want to list it.
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:27.199
They're gonna have to have their name on it, they're going to put it on the market at a discount and hopefully make like six grand.
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:32.559
Plus, they're gonna have to deal with a troublesome seller that comes with a bunch of headaches on the back end through title and everything else.
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:35.920
Whereas we're willing to do that because we're gonna make thirty thousand dollars.
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:36.880
Yeah, right.
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:45.280
And so like the opportunity creates that upside, which is which is really, I would say, like hard for people to comprehend.
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:57.760
It is very challenging because there's also deals like that that we've worked for six months and then it goes sideways for some reason or another because like literally they're not able to sell the property, but that's also the the risk reward with the asymmetrical upside.
00:39:57.840 --> 00:39:59.039
So yeah, exactly.
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.800
How can the listener find you?
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:04.000
I mean, they're drawn to maybe just the way that you think differently about passive income.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:10.400
Maybe they want to join your community and learn more about real estate investing or maybe making these massive gains as opposed to just passive income.
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.199
How can they find you?
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:16.880
Yeah, so the collecting keys podcast is if you like more long-form content from me, that's the best place to find it.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.440
You can find it anywhere that that podcasts are posted.
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:24.400
If you want to reach out to me directly, the best way is on Instagram, just at mic underscore invests.
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:27.840
I've really been putting a lot of time into building some more content out over there.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:29.840
You know, the we were talking about this earlier.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.559
The creative social media stuff is so hard.
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:38.480
Like it, especially as kind of like an introverted person, it takes a lot, but we've we've got some some good educational stuff going on over there.
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:44.079
And then if you were interested in scale, collectingkeys.com slash scale has a breakdown of what all that offers for you.
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.920
And you can see a little highlight video of the last in-person retreat retreat that we did.
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.199
That was really, really awesome.
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:50.239
Love it, love it.
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:56.639
Well, we'll put on that show notes for you, for the listener, and I hope that they take you up on some of those ways to be able to connect with you.
00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:01.760
You definitely are not the typical real estate investor, and I have enjoyed the conversation.
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.960
Look forward to actually some future conversations around that passive income a little bit more.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:08.239
I think that you and I have some uh some agitation of thought to do there.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:09.920
I've appreciated the way that you think.
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:11.199
So thank you for being here.
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:14.719
Blessings to you and all the people that you're gonna help here in 2024.
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:14.960
Thank you.
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:15.440
Awesome.
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:16.159
Thanks, Chaz.
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:18.320
Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:22.400
I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:33.039
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:46.239
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over two or three hundred other very successful seven, eight, and nine-figure business owners, is that it's tough to do it alone.
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.880
And so gathering the kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:58.320
In fact, we are putting together 1,000 kings, specifically who are grateful but not done.
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:03.599
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:14.400
And here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:26.159
So if that relates and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other, very successful business owners, I want you to go to gatheringtheKings.com.
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:33.440
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1,000 kings.
00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:34.800
Talk soon.