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What if the thing that made you feel like a cool, relatable Christian was actually the thing keeping you from real freedom?
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Today's guest, Nikki White, is going to get honest about drinking to fit in at parties where everyone else had a glass in hand.
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And what happened when she finally asked herself why that mattered so much?
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Welcome back to the Drink Lefts with Susan podcast.
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I'm so excited to be here with my friend Nikki White.
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I follow Nikki on Substack, and I just feel like we relate around our drinking story so much.
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And she's also an author of a book.
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So I invited her to be on the podcast today to share her story.
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Well, thank you, Susan.
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I'm so happy to be here.
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Well, let me start by reading your bio and then we'll jump into your drinking story because I know for me, when I was working on my drinking, questioning my drinking, I really loved hearing other people's stories because it really made me feel like I wasn't alone.
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And so that's why I really wanted to include that in this podcast is real people, real stories.
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I'll just start off by telling everyone who you are.
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Nikki S.
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White is the author of A Mother Worth Loving, a memoir of finding grace in unexpected places.
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And she's also the writer for Just a Broken Believer, a Christian blog that documents God's divine appearance in everyday human life.
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And that's where I follow her on Substack.
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Nikki's passion is for hesitant believers to know God's heart, grow in grace, and go live out their faith.
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Nikki grew up in uncomfortable church pews, convinced that no amount of gold stars in her Bible could win God's approval until she saw his love unfold in her life in real and intimate ways.
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Nikki and her husband Chuck live in her hometown where they recently downsized to a thousand square foot house.
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Ooh, I have to hear about that.
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And they're just a few steps away from her childhood memories, her grown children, and her grandchildren.
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And when she's not working on her next book, you will find her reorganizing closets, browsing antique shops, or standing awestruck beneath a canopy of stars.
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Yay! So glad you're here.
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Oh well, thank you.
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I definitely need to have you visit and help me with all my closets, if that's the thing I'm doing.
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I love closets.
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Oh my gosh.
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Well, I definitely have a lot of closets to clean.
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So oh well, that's so good.
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The body of Christ, where one person's expertise is the other person's weakness.
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And that's why he puts us all together.
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We all have different gifts.
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So well, I'd just love for you to share about your drinking story.
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Where drinking first entered the picture for you, and what did it represent at that stage or that age and stage in your life?
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Well, my drinking story, I never thought I'd be telling this story, but there's a story to tell.
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I grew up in church.
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I grew up in a Christian home, and our church, there were there was no alcohol.
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Even the communion wine was grape juice.
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And there were a lot of rules in our church, and one of them was no drinking.
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And so I complied, even though I didn't quite understand why.
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And I tried really hard to be good, but I never really felt good enough.
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And as I got older, I noticed that a lot more fun was happening outside the church doors than inside the church doors.
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Um, I think we can all relate to that growing up in the in the church and you know, in the teen years and things.
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And I remember very distinctly, I I didn't drink till I was probably a senior in high school.
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I didn't even experiment with drinking, but I remember one time in particular, we have an outdoor music venue, and I went to a concert wearing a pair of white jeans.
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It had rained earlier that day, and I was sitting on the top of the hill where the cheap seats are, and I had to use the ladies' room.
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And in order to get down without getting myself muddy, I had to leap from blanket to blanket to blanket to blanket.
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And my balance was off, obviously.
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The gravity was pulling me and I was slipping and sliding, and people were getting angry at me.
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And the closer I got, the harder it was to keep myself clean.
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And then by the end, I was just in a mudslide.
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I just, much to everyone's delight, all around me, they, you know, it was a great joke.
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I ended up with very dirty jeans.
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And I remember so distinctly going into the ladies' room and hoisting my leg up in the sink and trying to wash those jeans very unsuccessfully.
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And and looking back, I feel like that has been the journey with my drinking my entire life.
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I have done, you know, hopped from little places to little places of maybe not drinking, or like when I raised my kids, or uh when I was really uh involved in Bible study and trying really hard to be a good Christian, I would be hopping blanket to blanket.
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But in between, there was a lot of mud, there was a lot of sliding, and just the gravity of being human just pulled me down.
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And so let me see.
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So, really, probably more recently, about 20 years ago, we bought a house back in my hometown.
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And it was, it had been a lifelong dream to go back to my hometown.
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We bought an old farmhouse, and it was like a second chance to be cool.
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I never felt cool in high school, um, you know, being the church girl and all, and I thought, okay, I am going to, I'm gonna let my hair down a little bit.
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I, you know, I don't want to be legalistic.
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I I know Jesus drank wine.
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I want to be more approachable to other people, and you know, you could tell when you don't drink, people are a little put off by that when they do.
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So um I just embraced it.
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I embraced the drinking scene.
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I was enjoying my life.
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Um, I met a lot of wonderful people that are still friends today.
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And probably at the height of my cool Christian era, because I decided that that I was a cool Christian, I would be in the bars asking for a glass of wine, but looking over my shoulder, hoping no one from church would would see me.
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You know, and then Sunday morning I'd slide into the pews, you know, the last pew, a little bit hung over and just feeling so guilty and just full of shame.
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I I shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have drank so much.
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And at the very peak of this cool Christian era, my husband built a gorgeous wine cellar in the the floor of our living room.
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So you it would be accessed by a trapdoor.
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It was at the bottom of our stairs, and it was a heavy barnwood door, and you'd open it, and you would go down a beautiful barnwood ladder where actually it was a historical ladder where you could feel where the horses had gnawed at the wood, and you would go down the ladder and you would just sit here in this breathtakingly beautiful place with 300 bottles of wine.
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And um, people loved it.
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People, people still talk about they got their wedding pictures taken there and all kinds of things.
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But right from the start, I'm a little claustrophobic, and right from the start, I would go down those stairs, and people would come down and they'd ooh and awe, and that door, um, it had a silent, uh, I don't even know how to call it.
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It had like a missing.
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Yeah.
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It was like a like a pressure thing.
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And it would slowly lower, and then you wouldn't even hear it, and it would just all of a sudden you'd look up and you'd say, Oh, I'm closed in.
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And I was always uncomfortable down there, even though it was beautiful, even though everyone loved it, even though I thought it was beautiful, I was uncomfortable being locked down there in that cellar.
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I just, I don't like the dark.
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I just wanted to be out in the light.
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And ultimately in that cellar, with we would have doorbells ringing, and we would open it up, and almost strangers would be standing there saying, We heard about the cellar, we want to see it.
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So we'd let them come down.
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So, I mean, it was a great evangelical opportunity.
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That's gonna be, you know, if we were gonna talk about the gospel, people were coming to us.
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And wow, that down in that cellar, though, I found that as we we began to drink and as I continue to drink, because alcohol is it is an addictive substance.
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And you I couldn't just have just one, and I never got to the point where I couldn't stop, but I really didn't want to because I thought, well, what the heck?
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You know, I'm down here and might as well get comfortable.
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So ultimately, though, Jesus would always come up in the conversation as the drinks were pouring.
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People down there, Christians, non-Christians, Jesus always came up.
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And the more I drank, the more I felt like I couldn't.
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I'm an awkward person.
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I don't know if you can detect it right now.
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You're so sweet.
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Um, I I get a little awkward, and so when I was drinking, I knew like I was aware that that I was I was slurring words.
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I'd be I started becoming a little bit more aware of that, and I became more fearful and I became more silent.
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So the subject of Jesus came up many times.
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I stayed silent and let them reach their own conclusions.
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And I remember the Lord, though, kept working on my heart.
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I was going to still going to Bible study, still going to church.
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I've kind of living this divided life of the wine cellar life and the life, you know, at church where I love Jesus.
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I love Jesus both places, but I felt like I had to kind of go into hiding in the wine cellar and couldn't really say who I was.
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And I remember one day in particular, one of our good friends announced that he didn't believe he didn't believe in Jesus or he didn't believe Jesus loved him.
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It was something that I just couldn't stay silent anymore.
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And I remember jumping up and I wanted to say Jesus loves you.
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And it came out like Jesus, you know, and I I cried myself to sleep that night because I was like, oh Lord, I I know you and I I know I am in these people's lives for a reason.
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And I really want to um I I want to be a witness for you.
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I want to be someone if they're not reading the Bible, I want to be this if I'm the only Bible they're reading, I want it to be accurate.
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And if I'm behaving in the way I was, it didn't feel like I was representing the Lord very well.
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And so, but you know, the Lord hears those cries, and over time, He it didn't happen all at once, but he just kept sending me little nudges, little signs.
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One funny thing that happened to me was I was in the dentist office getting my teeth cleaned, and the hygienist called in the dentist, and my mouth was open.
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You know, it's such an awkward position to be in, and two people just staring into your mouth.
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And I thought, what?
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Oh my gosh, do I have a cavity?
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I didn't know what was going on.
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They said, Your tongue is so purple.
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Have you been eating blueberries?
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And then I think my face turned as purple as my tongue at that moment.
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But I was like, oh no, you know, I I never mentioned that I was probably drinking way too much wine.
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But that was like little funny things like that.
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And the Lord has such a good sense of humor.
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Uh well, I want to just pull on one thread that you mentioned in your story because I think it'll will really relate to a lot of women listening.
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It relate I relate to it, is this divided life and the hiding where you feel like you're hiding in both places.
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You're hiding in church that you drink, and sometimes you're not you're not necessarily hiding that you're a Christian when you're drinking, but you're not necessarily being as you know, being the light that you could be.
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And yeah, that's so so hard being in both those spaces and not really feeling comfortable in either.
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Like you're going to church hung over, feeling bad, and you're then at a party, maybe having a few too many glasses and feeling like you're staying silent when you want to talk.
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And I know from knowing you, you have you have the gift of evangelism.
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So that must I I don't, but for you, like I just see like that must have been really hard to feel like, yeah, that you didn't maybe trust yourself or trust your voice enough to speak up, you know, in those moments and really evangelize.
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Because I think that that's your gift, especially when I read your writing.
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It's it's so beautiful and so grace-filled to just draw a hesitant believer back to the love of God.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Well, I write from what what I know personally, you know, I just I'm just writing for those people that just never felt good enough to realize that the Lord loves us just as we are.
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He says, Come and see.
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He doesn't say, come get perfect and then come to me.
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You know, he just says, come and see.
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And I do think the enemy wants to keep us silent.
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I do think he uses those situations when God has called us out of something and we continue to do them.
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We continue not to really cooperate with the spirit.
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I do think the enemy loves to use that to accuse us and to keep us silent.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Our guilt and shame.
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Those are the two things.
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Those are the enemy's weapons.
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They are not from God.
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And I felt like I was stuck in the same thing: the guilt and shame, the little shame cloud.
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And I mean, when you were also drinking, and like you said, you didn't feel like it was bad enough that you needed to stop.
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And I know that that's you know, that's classic gray area drinking is you can't stop.
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You're just like, well, but why why should I?
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Like my drinking's not that bad because we have this binary belief system that it's either you're a normal drinker or you're an alcoholic.
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And so I think that that that belief right there makes it really hard to decide that maybe alcohol isn't helping your walk with God, isn't helping your health, you know, whatever the reason, because then it's almost like if you decide to stop, that means you must be an alcoholic, right?
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And yes, I don't know, that kept me stuck for a really long time.
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Um, how was that for you?
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Is that the type of belief you had about alcohol?
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Yes, yes, it definitely was.
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And I think the Lord does talk to each of us personally, and sometimes maybe something doesn't appear to be that bad or that important, but he still puts his gentle finger on and you know and says, Honey, you've got to set that wine glass down.
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And I think he wanted me to set it down, not so much because I was addicted to it, but because I was clinging to to that wine to fit in and to be a part of something when I was already a part of him.
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You know, I he he was wanting me to to cling to him.
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And yes, so yes, so it was very confusing.
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It was very conflicting.
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You know, you'd wake up in the morning and say, I'm not gonna drink tonight, and then the doorbell would ring, and oh, we're showing the wine cellar, and why not have a glass of wine?
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You know what, what's it hurt?
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Right, right, yeah, and you know, but and I wasn't one that would have one either.
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It was always two, and then and then the way alcohol works in our body is that then it it goes, you know, to three, maybe, you know, it's progressive, and that's an alcohol problem, not a person problem.
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Yes, agreed.
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And the messages I believe that we've gotten from the world and from AA and from other sources is that it's a people problem.
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There's something wrong with you, you know, and that's just not true.
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So I mean, I will I will die on that hill.
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I will just keep talking.
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I think I talk about it in every episode.
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People are like, didn't she say that last episode?
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It's like, yes, I did, because I want to get it across to everyone that there is nothing wrong with you if you find yourself going from one glass to two glasses to three glasses, and it's because that's alcohol.
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It's it's really that's how alcohol works.
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And maybe there's a few, I know I know of them.
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There's a few unicorns.
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My dad is one of them who can have his one beer every night.
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That's what he had, one beer, never has any more, but that is not the norm.
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Right, right.
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So, yeah.
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So then what was that moment or season that made you decide to take a break?
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Did you experiment or what made you decide that you wanted to change your relationship with alcohol?
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Well, it was it was over time, the Lord speaking to me gently over time.
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It was very similar to sliding down, you know, sliding down that muddy hill.
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I started to walk back up it a little bit in a different way.
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And with the with the Lord leading me, but he really did speak to me through his word just so gently.
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And um I I just kept going to, I would open the Bible and there would be something there about, you know, you are you are my witnesses, or right at the time we were studying the people of Israel and the different kings, that they would tear down, they were known at the end of their life for if they had torn down the high places, the places that people went to instead of going to the Lord, or if they had left them.
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And I I kept hearing the Lord talk to me, like, you know, are are you going to tear down this this other place that you're going to?
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When I'm asking you not to, not to.
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And I feel like maybe being in the legalistic background that I was at, I I still always felt like the rules were God wanted to take something from us, but Jesus does not take.
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That is the enemy who takes.
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Um, Jesus gives.
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He laid down his life for us.
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And anytime he has us lay something down, he always has something so much better for us.
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And but it's scary.
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It's scary at first to to take the leap, you know, to cooperate with them and to trust them, but that's what they do too.
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But my particular situation was after a Bible study one day, I I remember walking out to the parking lot and he just told me, I want you to put your wine glass down.
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Like it was just so clear to me.
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And I just started crying.
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I said, It's too hard.
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It's too hard.
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I don't know how to do it.
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Not not it wasn't the the getting rid of the wine, it was it was getting rid of the lifestyle and the acceptance that I felt I had and the friends that I felt I had.
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It gained from drinking and and the Lord is so kind because it was shortly after that he gave me a spiritual dream.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:59.119
And I I grew up in the charismatic church, but everybody else was having all kinds of charismatic situations happening around them, never to me.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.599
So the fact that I had a spiritual dream, it was so showed how much the Lord really, really was helping me.
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:24.240
I had a dream that I was in the wine cellar, and all my new friends, they had walked up the ladder and they went out the door, and I could even see them go out the door, and I heard the laughter, and I had that sense in me like feeling so left out, feeling like, oh, you know, I I've lost my friends.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:34.400
And then, but but but I wasn't alone because at my feet there was a group of women in a circle sitting crisscrossed on the floor, and they were all holding hands and they were praying.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:43.279
And I knew at that moment I was standing there, and I knew I could walk up and follow those people, or I could sit down and take my place at the circle.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.880
And I sat down.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:50.960
I sat down and I held their hands, and it in the dream I felt like the power surge through me.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.039
I hope this is not too woo-woo for this podcast.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:55.839
This really happened to me.
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:57.119
I love it.
00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:57.920
Keep going.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:07.440
And so, and so you know, it didn't happen right away, but it was a confirmation again that the the Lord had something greater for me.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:13.839
And so at one particular night, I I just was I did not know how to do this.
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:27.519
I did not know how to get out of my situation and stop drinking and still maintain my friendships, even my marriage, because my husband drinks, and he's he's a believer, he's you know, but he he doesn't have the same convictions I have.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.599
And I did not know how I was gonna do it.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:42.400
And the Lord sent sent me one night a I think on Instagram, a little thing for a 21-day fast through a Christian group that does 21-day fast.
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:46.240
And I I just hit it, I you know, I'm sure I was drunk when I did it.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:47.839
I just said, okay, I'll do it.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:53.279
And I signed up for that fast and I began it on it was July 1st, 2019.
00:20:53.519 --> 00:21:02.720
And you know it was not until September 21st of 2025 that I officially laid that wine glass down.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.319
That's how gracious God is.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.000
That's how wonderful He is.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:12.319
And I had my you know leaps from this blanket to this blanket to this blanket, you know, to get to to sobriety.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.319
But the Lord, the Lord graciously was with me the entire way.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.319
And I know he will be with you too.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:25.359
If anyone's listening and you're feeling like you can't, he is there for you and he is gonna walk you through it.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.400
And it's just usually just one step at a time.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.319
One, you know, it's not a we get so mad at least I do, I get so mad at myself.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:41.519
I used to get so mad at myself when I picked up that wine again, and the next morning I felt like, oh, and I didn't even want to come to the Lord because because I felt like I had to hide from him, you know.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.440
I was like Adam and Eve, I was hiding.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:45.680
I was like, and he was saying, Where are you?
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.480
Where are you?
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:47.920
You know, you don't have to hide.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:59.759
He knew where I was, and and really the best place to let your hair down is at the foot of the cross, you know, with Jesus, because he just sees us as we are and he loves us so much.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.319
Much.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.759
We don't have to be cool or not cool or perfect.
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.079
He just, he loves us because he made us.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:12.400
And he really, when he tells us to give something up, it's because he loves us and he has so much, so much more for us.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:13.680
Yes, yes.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:15.359
That I truly believe that.
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.160
And this means it's your one-year anniversary.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.759
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:20.799
Amazing.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.240
So what a celebration.
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:27.039
That's so your one-year alcohol freedom anniversary.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.480
I love that so much.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:29.359
Oh my gosh.
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.559
It seems like the perfect timing to have you on the podcast.
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.240
I'm really thrilled for you.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.000
So tell me then.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.119
So it is true.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:38.160
I believe it's true.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:39.440
It's like this big boulder.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:40.640
We can get it out of the way.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:51.839
It's not like we don't have a relationship with Jesus during the times that we're drinking, but when we do obey, lay the glass down, then it's like he can walk us into something more.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.680
Like, you know, the tagline of my podcast is you were made for more.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:06.160
And so tell me what changed in your relationship with the Lord and with what he has for your purpose once you walked into that full freedom.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.880
Yes.
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.680
Well, at the very beginning of my journey, it was at the end of 2019.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:18.000
I was going, I went, I stepped into a little bit more of like an alcohol-free living class.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.160
And at that time, it was just before COVID, I did that.
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.160
I began to write.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.400
I began to feel a call on my life to write.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:34.319
We we moved from our farmhouse with the wine cellar and moved into this little thousand square foot house here.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:42.480
And when I was cleaning out our cleaning out our basement, I found a lot of my writing that I I kind of forgot.
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.759
You know, I I raised my children, I helped my husband with the business.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:49.200
I kind of forgot that I like to write.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:24:00.720
And when I stopped drinking or started making the steps to be be more sober-minded and deliberate with my living, that is when the door opened up to write, just a broken believer.
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.720
So that is when that all began, is when I first set the wine glass down.
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:11.359
And now that the full freedom of it all, and you know, how has my relationship changed?
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:22.240
Back when I was at the in the thick of my drinking days, a girl from church called me and it's just a sweetheart and she said, Nikki, how are you?
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.200
How how how are you and Jesus doing?
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:28.400
I was so offended by that question.
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.119
I was like, good, we're good.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.440
And and and I hung up the phone.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.640
I felt so angry.
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.960
I thought I'm never going to church again.
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.359
I like someone had called me out.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.039
I, the nerve, you know, why would they ask me about my relationship with Jesus?
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.319
And it is personal.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.559
But I felt super offended by that.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.079
And I thought it was kind of telling about where I was.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.880
And recently, about a week ago, another friend called me and she said almost the same question.
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:58.079
She asked me the same question.
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.880
She said, Nikki, tell me what have you been doing?
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:02.720
You know, how what about Jesus?
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.480
What's Jesus doing in your life?
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.839
And I opened my mouth and I was driving up north.
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:11.279
I live in Michigan.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:16.319
I was driving to our cabin up north, and I found myself, my cheeks were hurting.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.240
I was grinning from ear to ear.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.279
And just like right now, I could not stop talking.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:24.720
I was just so excited about what the Lord had done.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:33.839
And I I told her all about how I had found this group, Love Life Sober, and how the Lord had called me to encourage women there.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.799
And I I I I don't know.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:42.720
I just I and then after I was done, after we got off the phone, I thought, wow, what a difference.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:48.079
I've gone from being very defensive about my relationship to Jesus to being very open.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.119
And I've been able now to also live my life.
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.319
Those those same friends that I was so afraid I was going to lose.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:26:03.599
I am I have been told that I I have been heard that people have said about me that I'm going overboard, but they are still my friends.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:12.000
They are still, they welcome me, they they love me as I am, they know I'm a believer, they know I don't drink, they still include me.
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:19.519
I I think the probably the uncomfortableness was really within myself and and that divided heart I had.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.160
It made me everything felt uncomfortable.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:23.839
Yeah, I feel the same way.
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.279
When I I would drink to fit in, or I thought so.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:32.400
And when I stopped drinking, I feel like I'm so much more my more most authentic self.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:39.279
Yes, that when I go anywhere, I'm just more comfortable in my skin than I ever was when I was drinking.
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:45.119
And I know a lot of people drink for social anxiety, and it actually has the opposite effect.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:52.079
I would feel more paranoid when I was drinking about, well, everybody else only had one glass and I'm ready for the second glass.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.960
Does anybody notice that I'm going back for a third glass?
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:05.119
Or like my mind was so fixated on that, or yeah, and instead of just now I just show up being myself, and I have had friends say the same thing.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.039
Well, you're a little extreme.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:07.839
That's what they said.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.920
I'm like, okay, well, whatever, that's me, you know.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.319
So, but that's so I was gonna ask you, did you lose any friends?
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:17.599
Because sometimes people do.
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:21.039
We I like to call it the friend shift, but I didn't either.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.160
Thank God.
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:34.160
Thank God, as a matter of fact, um, I have found that the the believers that were in that group with me, they they have come more forward with their faith too.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.160
They might not have quit drinking, but but they are talking more about Jesus.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:48.880
We have had as challenges have come up, we have been able to pray together and talk about the Bible and be more open about it.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:50.880
And I'm I'm so grateful for that.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:56.559
I just am because really when we're the closer we are to Jesus, the more we are authentically ourselves.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:57.759
So true.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:58.960
That's so great.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:12.559
Um, one of the questions I want to ask every guest is if you could go back and talk to the version of yourself who drank to be a cool Christian and to fit in with her friend group, what would you tell her?
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:24.640
Oh, I'd say, honey, God has made you exactly the way you are for a reason and you have so much to offer and you don't need that wine glass.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.400
Um, you you just really don't.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:32.079
All you need is me, and I'm I'm in you and with you and for you, not against you.
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:37.759
And I really do believe that we are like God's little secret agents.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:54.960
Like He He plants us in our lives in in all these different areas of our life at work, at home, in our neighborhoods, with our groups of friends, and even with this uh this whole group of friends that I developed from drinking that are still my friends now.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:29:15.039
I mean, God even used that part of my life, which I'm not proud of, to still redeem it and to still share his gospel and to still uh maybe also give me uh more more understanding too for why why people drink instead of just you know being.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.160
I don't know if you remember the church chat from Saturday Night Live.
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.400
I a lot of times I feel like I I could have I used to be more like that.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.759
I I'm not so sure I'm like that.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:24.799
I hope I'm not listening.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:26.400
No, you're not at all.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.200
But I get it.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:27.680
I get it.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:29.759
That's one of the biggest things.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:30.880
I I had the same thing.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.039
If I quit drinking and I'm a Christian, like wow, everybody's gonna think I'm a big loser or boring or whatever.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.240
It's like, oh my gosh, you know, like I get it.
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.160
And it's so so the opposite.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:44.880
Yeah, it's so oh my gosh.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:46.880
But yes, why do we worry about that?
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:47.599
I don't know.
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:49.759
Because we everybody wants to belong.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:51.519
Everyone wants to belong.
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:57.200
But you know, the difference between fitting in and belonging, belonging, you belong just by being you.
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.960
Yeah, you don't have to do anything when we do something to fit in.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:06.480
That's when it's like we're putting a mask on and we're not being our authentic self and it's not comfortable.
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:07.039
No.
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.839
So, I mean, uh how old are we now that we finally learned this, right?
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:13.359
62.
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.000
I'm 62.
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:15.119
I'm 61.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.000
So here we go.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:17.279
We're finally authentic.
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:24.480
But you know, God does redeem, He does do that, he makes good come from all things.
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.960
Even, you know, I say my mess became my message.
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:38.079
It became something I'm really passionate about to help others who maybe feel like they're stuck in this vicious drinking cycle or drinking more than they really want to, and feeling like you said, it's too hard.
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:39.599
I don't know how to do this.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.599
Well it's we're here to show you, we're here to help you.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:45.359
That's what I want to do.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:31:03.039
It it can be hard, but when you have a guide or someone to guide you through it, someone who's gone before you, and you know, and that isn't that the Christian way, too, is we reach back and we pull you up with us and we believe for you and we pray for you, and and that makes it all so much easier.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.319
Um, I just love that vision of sitting in a circle with with women.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:12.559
I feel like we're in that circle together now, kind of, and I can't talk to you.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.319
Totally listen when I see you.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.680
Um yeah, that's what a beautiful dream.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.599
I no, that's not too woo-woo for me.
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:21.519
I think it's it's beautiful.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:28.319
I wish, you know, I would hear, I'm really praying about hearing from the Holy Spirit more in my life.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:33.039
I sometimes it's hard for me to accept his love, and I'm still working on that.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:35.359
And like you said, he's so gracious.
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.200
He just keeps coming, keeps slowly, you know, inviting us.
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:45.359
He knows he knows us, so he knows what what we need and and how to draw us in.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.240
And he's just so gracious and loving.
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:56.799
So well, where can people find you and tell us a teeny bit about your book and where they can find you and follow you?
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.599
Yes, yes, and I'm also I also have a website, uh, just a broken believer.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:08.480
And you can reach me there, you can sign up for my Substack Weekly Post directly to your inbox.
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:10.480
I'm on socials right now.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:17.279
I'm trying to get off socials because I'm finding them to be a little distracting right now in my life.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.759
And the book that I currently have, I'm writing a series of books.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:34.000
I'm calling them the Broken Believer series, and they are true stories that relate to parts of our lives that maybe we don't talk about as lifelong Christians.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.400
A lot of times we we keep quiet.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.519
I find at least I did kept quiet about a lot of things.
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.799
I felt like everyone around me was Amen and Hallelujah.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:48.319
And I was just struggling inside, you know, with a big smile on my face and almost playing the game.
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.559
I a lot of times I would go to church and like, I just feel like I'm just playing the game.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:33:01.359
And that's not, God does want us to live authentically, and we it's so important to be in community and not hide and be vulnerable.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.960
I think that's why I'm trying to be more vulnerable with my life too.
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:12.640
And you know, sometimes a rock and roll song will come on and I'll be like, yeah, and they'll be like, oh, you you like that.
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:14.000
And I'm like, oh yeah.
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:18.400
You know, uh, but the proper church girl and me maybe wouldn't have shared that.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:20.160
And I think it's we're human.
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:21.839
It's not a sin to be human.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:26.480
Jesus became human and paid the price for our sin.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:37.039
And He He loves us, He understands, He advocates for us at you know, at the right hand of God, and and the Holy Spirit advocates for us also.
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:38.559
So I'm so grateful for that.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:40.720
But I'm sorry, back to my book.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:54.559
Um it's um a mother worth loving, and it is a story of growing up in the church, and my mother and I had, when I became older, my mother and I she loved me, she adored me.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.640
She came from a very broken place and suffered with some undiagnosed depression, I believe.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.119
And I always interpreted that to mean that I wasn't good enough for her.
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.119
So I never felt like I had her blessing.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:22.639
And this is a story, I just have to tell you, it's a Kleenex alert book because everyone has told me that they cried their way through a box of Kleenex, but it is a redemption story of what God did in the last time, the last period of her her life and what he did for us together.
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:27.360
I'm so excited to go to heaven and tell her all about what Jesus did.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:28.880
Well, that's beautiful.
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.480
Well, I have it, I haven't read it.
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:33.440
It's in my TBR list, which is really tall.
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.559
But I can't wait.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:40.159
And I will make sure I'm don't read it on planes or other places where you don't want to be sobbing.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:41.760
You know, I've done that before.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:46.000
I watch a movie and I'm like, I'm like, why did I pick this movie on a plane?
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:46.960
How embarrassing.
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:48.000
So, yes.
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:48.880
Well, I can't wait.
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:55.039
I think that sounds so relatable, and I'm so excited for more people to know about your book and because there's just so much healing.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.719
Yeah, a mothers and daughters.
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.800
Yes, yes, yeah.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:00.480
So that's so wonderful.
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.039
Well, thank you so much for sharing your story.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.559
I'm just so thrilled.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:12.480
It's yeah, I'm so happy to have you as a friend and be sitting crisscross applesauce with you in your circle and helping other women.
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:14.159
And I'm just so blessed.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.639
So thank you so much for being a guest.
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:18.880
And thank you to my listeners.
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.239
And just remember that you were made for more.
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Amen.
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Wow, wasn't that an amazing story?
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I am so blessed.
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And if you were to, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a single episode.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.679
What if the thing that made you feel like a cool, relatable Christian was actually the thing keeping you from real freedom?
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Today's guest, Nikki White, is going to get honest about drinking to fit in at parties where everyone else had a glass in hand.
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And what happened when she finally asked herself why that mattered so much?
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Welcome back to the Drink Lefts with Susan podcast.
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I'm so excited to be here with my friend Nikki White.
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I follow Nikki on Substack, and I just feel like we relate around our drinking story so much.
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And she's also an author of a book.
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So I invited her to be on the podcast today to share her story.
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Well, thank you, Susan.
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I'm so happy to be here.
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Well, let me start by reading your bio and then we'll jump into your drinking story because I know for me, when I was working on my drinking, questioning my drinking, I really loved hearing other people's stories because it really made me feel like I wasn't alone.
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And so that's why I really wanted to include that in this podcast is real people, real stories.
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I'll just start off by telling everyone who you are.
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Nikki S.
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White is the author of A Mother Worth Loving, a memoir of finding grace in unexpected places.
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And she's also the writer for Just a Broken Believer, a Christian blog that documents God's divine appearance in everyday human life.
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And that's where I follow her on Substack.
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Nikki's passion is for hesitant believers to know God's heart, grow in grace, and go live out their faith.
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Nikki grew up in uncomfortable church pews, convinced that no amount of gold stars in her Bible could win God's approval until she saw his love unfold in her life in real and intimate ways.
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Nikki and her husband Chuck live in her hometown where they recently downsized to a thousand square foot house.
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Ooh, I have to hear about that.
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And they're just a few steps away from her childhood memories, her grown children, and her grandchildren.
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And when she's not working on her next book, you will find her reorganizing closets, browsing antique shops, or standing awestruck beneath a canopy of stars.
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Yay! So glad you're here.
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Oh well, thank you.
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I definitely need to have you visit and help me with all my closets, if that's the thing I'm doing.
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I love closets.
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Oh my gosh.
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Well, I definitely have a lot of closets to clean.
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So oh well, that's so good.
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The body of Christ, where one person's expertise is the other person's weakness.
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And that's why he puts us all together.
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We all have different gifts.
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So well, I'd just love for you to share about your drinking story.
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Where drinking first entered the picture for you, and what did it represent at that stage or that age and stage in your life?
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Well, my drinking story, I never thought I'd be telling this story, but there's a story to tell.
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I grew up in church.
00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:08.639
I grew up in a Christian home, and our church, there were there was no alcohol.
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Even the communion wine was grape juice.
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And there were a lot of rules in our church, and one of them was no drinking.
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And so I complied, even though I didn't quite understand why.
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And I tried really hard to be good, but I never really felt good enough.
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And as I got older, I noticed that a lot more fun was happening outside the church doors than inside the church doors.
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Um, I think we can all relate to that growing up in the in the church and you know, in the teen years and things.
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And I remember very distinctly, I I didn't drink till I was probably a senior in high school.
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I didn't even experiment with drinking, but I remember one time in particular, we have an outdoor music venue, and I went to a concert wearing a pair of white jeans.
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It had rained earlier that day, and I was sitting on the top of the hill where the cheap seats are, and I had to use the ladies' room.
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And in order to get down without getting myself muddy, I had to leap from blanket to blanket to blanket to blanket.
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And my balance was off, obviously.
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The gravity was pulling me and I was slipping and sliding, and people were getting angry at me.
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And the closer I got, the harder it was to keep myself clean.
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And then by the end, I was just in a mudslide.
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I just, much to everyone's delight, all around me, they, you know, it was a great joke.
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I ended up with very dirty jeans.
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And I remember so distinctly going into the ladies' room and hoisting my leg up in the sink and trying to wash those jeans very unsuccessfully.
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And and looking back, I feel like that has been the journey with my drinking my entire life.
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I have done, you know, hopped from little places to little places of maybe not drinking, or like when I raised my kids, or uh when I was really uh involved in Bible study and trying really hard to be a good Christian, I would be hopping blanket to blanket.
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But in between, there was a lot of mud, there was a lot of sliding, and just the gravity of being human just pulled me down.
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And so let me see.
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So, really, probably more recently, about 20 years ago, we bought a house back in my hometown.
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And it was, it had been a lifelong dream to go back to my hometown.
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We bought an old farmhouse, and it was like a second chance to be cool.
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I never felt cool in high school, um, you know, being the church girl and all, and I thought, okay, I am going to, I'm gonna let my hair down a little bit.
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I, you know, I don't want to be legalistic.
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I I know Jesus drank wine.
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I want to be more approachable to other people, and you know, you could tell when you don't drink, people are a little put off by that when they do.
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So um I just embraced it.
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I embraced the drinking scene.
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I was enjoying my life.
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Um, I met a lot of wonderful people that are still friends today.
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And probably at the height of my cool Christian era, because I decided that that I was a cool Christian, I would be in the bars asking for a glass of wine, but looking over my shoulder, hoping no one from church would would see me.
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You know, and then Sunday morning I'd slide into the pews, you know, the last pew, a little bit hung over and just feeling so guilty and just full of shame.
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I I shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have drank so much.
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And at the very peak of this cool Christian era, my husband built a gorgeous wine cellar in the the floor of our living room.
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So you it would be accessed by a trapdoor.
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It was at the bottom of our stairs, and it was a heavy barnwood door, and you'd open it, and you would go down a beautiful barnwood ladder where actually it was a historical ladder where you could feel where the horses had gnawed at the wood, and you would go down the ladder and you would just sit here in this breathtakingly beautiful place with 300 bottles of wine.
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And um, people loved it.
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People, people still talk about they got their wedding pictures taken there and all kinds of things.
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But right from the start, I'm a little claustrophobic, and right from the start, I would go down those stairs, and people would come down and they'd ooh and awe, and that door, um, it had a silent, uh, I don't even know how to call it.
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It had like a missing.
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Yeah.
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It was like a like a pressure thing.
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And it would slowly lower, and then you wouldn't even hear it, and it would just all of a sudden you'd look up and you'd say, Oh, I'm closed in.
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And I was always uncomfortable down there, even though it was beautiful, even though everyone loved it, even though I thought it was beautiful, I was uncomfortable being locked down there in that cellar.
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I just, I don't like the dark.
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I just wanted to be out in the light.
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And ultimately in that cellar, with we would have doorbells ringing, and we would open it up, and almost strangers would be standing there saying, We heard about the cellar, we want to see it.
00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:13.519
So we'd let them come down.
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So, I mean, it was a great evangelical opportunity.
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That's gonna be, you know, if we were gonna talk about the gospel, people were coming to us.
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And wow, that down in that cellar, though, I found that as we we began to drink and as I continue to drink, because alcohol is it is an addictive substance.
00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:43.519
And you I couldn't just have just one, and I never got to the point where I couldn't stop, but I really didn't want to because I thought, well, what the heck?
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You know, I'm down here and might as well get comfortable.
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So ultimately, though, Jesus would always come up in the conversation as the drinks were pouring.
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People down there, Christians, non-Christians, Jesus always came up.
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And the more I drank, the more I felt like I couldn't.
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I'm an awkward person.
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I don't know if you can detect it right now.
00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:09.519
You're so sweet.
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Um, I I get a little awkward, and so when I was drinking, I knew like I was aware that that I was I was slurring words.
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I'd be I started becoming a little bit more aware of that, and I became more fearful and I became more silent.
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So the subject of Jesus came up many times.
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I stayed silent and let them reach their own conclusions.
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And I remember the Lord, though, kept working on my heart.
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I was going to still going to Bible study, still going to church.
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I've kind of living this divided life of the wine cellar life and the life, you know, at church where I love Jesus.
00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:55.200
I love Jesus both places, but I felt like I had to kind of go into hiding in the wine cellar and couldn't really say who I was.
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And I remember one day in particular, one of our good friends announced that he didn't believe he didn't believe in Jesus or he didn't believe Jesus loved him.
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It was something that I just couldn't stay silent anymore.
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And I remember jumping up and I wanted to say Jesus loves you.
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And it came out like Jesus, you know, and I I cried myself to sleep that night because I was like, oh Lord, I I know you and I I know I am in these people's lives for a reason.
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And I really want to um I I want to be a witness for you.
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I want to be someone if they're not reading the Bible, I want to be this if I'm the only Bible they're reading, I want it to be accurate.
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And if I'm behaving in the way I was, it didn't feel like I was representing the Lord very well.
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And so, but you know, the Lord hears those cries, and over time, He it didn't happen all at once, but he just kept sending me little nudges, little signs.
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One funny thing that happened to me was I was in the dentist office getting my teeth cleaned, and the hygienist called in the dentist, and my mouth was open.
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You know, it's such an awkward position to be in, and two people just staring into your mouth.
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And I thought, what?
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Oh my gosh, do I have a cavity?
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I didn't know what was going on.
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They said, Your tongue is so purple.
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Have you been eating blueberries?
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And then I think my face turned as purple as my tongue at that moment.
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But I was like, oh no, you know, I I never mentioned that I was probably drinking way too much wine.
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But that was like little funny things like that.
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And the Lord has such a good sense of humor.
00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:47.200
Uh well, I want to just pull on one thread that you mentioned in your story because I think it'll will really relate to a lot of women listening.
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It relate I relate to it, is this divided life and the hiding where you feel like you're hiding in both places.
00:11:53.679 --> 00:12:05.519
You're hiding in church that you drink, and sometimes you're not you're not necessarily hiding that you're a Christian when you're drinking, but you're not necessarily being as you know, being the light that you could be.
00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:11.360
And yeah, that's so so hard being in both those spaces and not really feeling comfortable in either.
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:20.639
Like you're going to church hung over, feeling bad, and you're then at a party, maybe having a few too many glasses and feeling like you're staying silent when you want to talk.
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:25.039
And I know from knowing you, you have you have the gift of evangelism.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:40.399
So that must I I don't, but for you, like I just see like that must have been really hard to feel like, yeah, that you didn't maybe trust yourself or trust your voice enough to speak up, you know, in those moments and really evangelize.
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.600
Because I think that that's your gift, especially when I read your writing.
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It's it's so beautiful and so grace-filled to just draw a hesitant believer back to the love of God.
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:52.559
Yeah.
00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:53.200
Yes.
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Well, I write from what what I know personally, you know, I just I'm just writing for those people that just never felt good enough to realize that the Lord loves us just as we are.
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He says, Come and see.
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He doesn't say, come get perfect and then come to me.
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You know, he just says, come and see.
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And I do think the enemy wants to keep us silent.
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I do think he uses those situations when God has called us out of something and we continue to do them.
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We continue not to really cooperate with the spirit.
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I do think the enemy loves to use that to accuse us and to keep us silent.
00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:27.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.000
Our guilt and shame.
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Those are the two things.
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Those are the enemy's weapons.
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They are not from God.
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And I felt like I was stuck in the same thing: the guilt and shame, the little shame cloud.
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:46.720
And I mean, when you were also drinking, and like you said, you didn't feel like it was bad enough that you needed to stop.
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And I know that that's you know, that's classic gray area drinking is you can't stop.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.360
You're just like, well, but why why should I?
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Like my drinking's not that bad because we have this binary belief system that it's either you're a normal drinker or you're an alcoholic.
00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:19.279
And so I think that that that belief right there makes it really hard to decide that maybe alcohol isn't helping your walk with God, isn't helping your health, you know, whatever the reason, because then it's almost like if you decide to stop, that means you must be an alcoholic, right?
00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.480
And yes, I don't know, that kept me stuck for a really long time.
00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:24.320
Um, how was that for you?
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.679
Is that the type of belief you had about alcohol?
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.679
Yes, yes, it definitely was.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:43.759
And I think the Lord does talk to each of us personally, and sometimes maybe something doesn't appear to be that bad or that important, but he still puts his gentle finger on and you know and says, Honey, you've got to set that wine glass down.
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:58.960
And I think he wanted me to set it down, not so much because I was addicted to it, but because I was clinging to to that wine to fit in and to be a part of something when I was already a part of him.
00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.799
You know, I he he was wanting me to to cling to him.
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:06.240
And yes, so yes, so it was very confusing.
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:07.279
It was very conflicting.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:15.600
You know, you'd wake up in the morning and say, I'm not gonna drink tonight, and then the doorbell would ring, and oh, we're showing the wine cellar, and why not have a glass of wine?
00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:17.840
You know what, what's it hurt?
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.320
Right, right, yeah, and you know, but and I wasn't one that would have one either.
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:36.320
It was always two, and then and then the way alcohol works in our body is that then it it goes, you know, to three, maybe, you know, it's progressive, and that's an alcohol problem, not a person problem.
00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:37.679
Yes, agreed.
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:46.559
And the messages I believe that we've gotten from the world and from AA and from other sources is that it's a people problem.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:50.720
There's something wrong with you, you know, and that's just not true.
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.440
So I mean, I will I will die on that hill.
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:55.440
I will just keep talking.
00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:57.120
I think I talk about it in every episode.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:58.960
People are like, didn't she say that last episode?
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:11.440
It's like, yes, I did, because I want to get it across to everyone that there is nothing wrong with you if you find yourself going from one glass to two glasses to three glasses, and it's because that's alcohol.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.080
It's it's really that's how alcohol works.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.039
And maybe there's a few, I know I know of them.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:18.480
There's a few unicorns.
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:22.159
My dad is one of them who can have his one beer every night.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.720
That's what he had, one beer, never has any more, but that is not the norm.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:28.080
Right, right.
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:29.600
So, yeah.
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:36.879
So then what was that moment or season that made you decide to take a break?
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.960
Did you experiment or what made you decide that you wanted to change your relationship with alcohol?
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.679
Well, it was it was over time, the Lord speaking to me gently over time.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:52.480
It was very similar to sliding down, you know, sliding down that muddy hill.
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:56.720
I started to walk back up it a little bit in a different way.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:04.319
And with the with the Lord leading me, but he really did speak to me through his word just so gently.
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:30.400
And um I I just kept going to, I would open the Bible and there would be something there about, you know, you are you are my witnesses, or right at the time we were studying the people of Israel and the different kings, that they would tear down, they were known at the end of their life for if they had torn down the high places, the places that people went to instead of going to the Lord, or if they had left them.
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:38.480
And I I kept hearing the Lord talk to me, like, you know, are are you going to tear down this this other place that you're going to?
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.680
When I'm asking you not to, not to.
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:53.759
And I feel like maybe being in the legalistic background that I was at, I I still always felt like the rules were God wanted to take something from us, but Jesus does not take.
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:55.519
That is the enemy who takes.
00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:56.799
Um, Jesus gives.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.400
He laid down his life for us.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:04.079
And anytime he has us lay something down, he always has something so much better for us.
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:05.759
And but it's scary.
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:12.720
It's scary at first to to take the leap, you know, to cooperate with them and to trust them, but that's what they do too.
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:22.720
But my particular situation was after a Bible study one day, I I remember walking out to the parking lot and he just told me, I want you to put your wine glass down.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.160
Like it was just so clear to me.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:25.519
And I just started crying.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.960
I said, It's too hard.
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:28.000
It's too hard.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:29.440
I don't know how to do it.
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:41.920
Not not it wasn't the the getting rid of the wine, it was it was getting rid of the lifestyle and the acceptance that I felt I had and the friends that I felt I had.
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:51.039
It gained from drinking and and the Lord is so kind because it was shortly after that he gave me a spiritual dream.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:59.119
And I I grew up in the charismatic church, but everybody else was having all kinds of charismatic situations happening around them, never to me.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.599
So the fact that I had a spiritual dream, it was so showed how much the Lord really, really was helping me.
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:24.240
I had a dream that I was in the wine cellar, and all my new friends, they had walked up the ladder and they went out the door, and I could even see them go out the door, and I heard the laughter, and I had that sense in me like feeling so left out, feeling like, oh, you know, I I've lost my friends.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:34.400
And then, but but but I wasn't alone because at my feet there was a group of women in a circle sitting crisscrossed on the floor, and they were all holding hands and they were praying.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:43.279
And I knew at that moment I was standing there, and I knew I could walk up and follow those people, or I could sit down and take my place at the circle.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.880
And I sat down.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:50.960
I sat down and I held their hands, and it in the dream I felt like the power surge through me.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.039
I hope this is not too woo-woo for this podcast.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:55.839
This really happened to me.
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:57.119
I love it.
00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:57.920
Keep going.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:07.440
And so, and so you know, it didn't happen right away, but it was a confirmation again that the the Lord had something greater for me.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:13.839
And so at one particular night, I I just was I did not know how to do this.
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:27.519
I did not know how to get out of my situation and stop drinking and still maintain my friendships, even my marriage, because my husband drinks, and he's he's a believer, he's you know, but he he doesn't have the same convictions I have.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.599
And I did not know how I was gonna do it.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:42.400
And the Lord sent sent me one night a I think on Instagram, a little thing for a 21-day fast through a Christian group that does 21-day fast.
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:46.240
And I I just hit it, I you know, I'm sure I was drunk when I did it.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:47.839
I just said, okay, I'll do it.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:53.279
And I signed up for that fast and I began it on it was July 1st, 2019.
00:20:53.519 --> 00:21:02.720
And you know it was not until September 21st of 2025 that I officially laid that wine glass down.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.319
That's how gracious God is.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.000
That's how wonderful He is.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:12.319
And I had my you know leaps from this blanket to this blanket to this blanket, you know, to get to to sobriety.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.319
But the Lord, the Lord graciously was with me the entire way.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.319
And I know he will be with you too.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:25.359
If anyone's listening and you're feeling like you can't, he is there for you and he is gonna walk you through it.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.400
And it's just usually just one step at a time.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.319
One, you know, it's not a we get so mad at least I do, I get so mad at myself.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:41.519
I used to get so mad at myself when I picked up that wine again, and the next morning I felt like, oh, and I didn't even want to come to the Lord because because I felt like I had to hide from him, you know.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.440
I was like Adam and Eve, I was hiding.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:45.680
I was like, and he was saying, Where are you?
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.480
Where are you?
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:47.920
You know, you don't have to hide.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:59.759
He knew where I was, and and really the best place to let your hair down is at the foot of the cross, you know, with Jesus, because he just sees us as we are and he loves us so much.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.319
Much.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.759
We don't have to be cool or not cool or perfect.
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.079
He just, he loves us because he made us.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:12.400
And he really, when he tells us to give something up, it's because he loves us and he has so much, so much more for us.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:13.680
Yes, yes.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:15.359
That I truly believe that.
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.160
And this means it's your one-year anniversary.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.759
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:20.799
Amazing.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.240
So what a celebration.
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:27.039
That's so your one-year alcohol freedom anniversary.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.480
I love that so much.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:29.359
Oh my gosh.
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.559
It seems like the perfect timing to have you on the podcast.
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.240
I'm really thrilled for you.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.000
So tell me then.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.119
So it is true.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:38.160
I believe it's true.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:39.440
It's like this big boulder.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:40.640
We can get it out of the way.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:51.839
It's not like we don't have a relationship with Jesus during the times that we're drinking, but when we do obey, lay the glass down, then it's like he can walk us into something more.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.680
Like, you know, the tagline of my podcast is you were made for more.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:06.160
And so tell me what changed in your relationship with the Lord and with what he has for your purpose once you walked into that full freedom.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.880
Yes.
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.680
Well, at the very beginning of my journey, it was at the end of 2019.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:18.000
I was going, I went, I stepped into a little bit more of like an alcohol-free living class.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.160
And at that time, it was just before COVID, I did that.
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.160
I began to write.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.400
I began to feel a call on my life to write.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:34.319
We we moved from our farmhouse with the wine cellar and moved into this little thousand square foot house here.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:42.480
And when I was cleaning out our cleaning out our basement, I found a lot of my writing that I I kind of forgot.
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.759
You know, I I raised my children, I helped my husband with the business.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:49.200
I kind of forgot that I like to write.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:24:00.720
And when I stopped drinking or started making the steps to be be more sober-minded and deliberate with my living, that is when the door opened up to write, just a broken believer.
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.720
So that is when that all began, is when I first set the wine glass down.
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:11.359
And now that the full freedom of it all, and you know, how has my relationship changed?
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:22.240
Back when I was at the in the thick of my drinking days, a girl from church called me and it's just a sweetheart and she said, Nikki, how are you?
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.200
How how how are you and Jesus doing?
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:28.400
I was so offended by that question.
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.119
I was like, good, we're good.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.440
And and and I hung up the phone.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.640
I felt so angry.
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.960
I thought I'm never going to church again.
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.359
I like someone had called me out.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.039
I, the nerve, you know, why would they ask me about my relationship with Jesus?
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.319
And it is personal.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.559
But I felt super offended by that.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.079
And I thought it was kind of telling about where I was.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.880
And recently, about a week ago, another friend called me and she said almost the same question.
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:58.079
She asked me the same question.
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.880
She said, Nikki, tell me what have you been doing?
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:02.720
You know, how what about Jesus?
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.480
What's Jesus doing in your life?
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.839
And I opened my mouth and I was driving up north.
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:11.279
I live in Michigan.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:16.319
I was driving to our cabin up north, and I found myself, my cheeks were hurting.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.240
I was grinning from ear to ear.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.279
And just like right now, I could not stop talking.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:24.720
I was just so excited about what the Lord had done.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:33.839
And I I told her all about how I had found this group, Love Life Sober, and how the Lord had called me to encourage women there.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.799
And I I I I don't know.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:42.720
I just I and then after I was done, after we got off the phone, I thought, wow, what a difference.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:48.079
I've gone from being very defensive about my relationship to Jesus to being very open.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.119
And I've been able now to also live my life.
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.319
Those those same friends that I was so afraid I was going to lose.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:26:03.599
I am I have been told that I I have been heard that people have said about me that I'm going overboard, but they are still my friends.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:12.000
They are still, they welcome me, they they love me as I am, they know I'm a believer, they know I don't drink, they still include me.
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:19.519
I I think the probably the uncomfortableness was really within myself and and that divided heart I had.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.160
It made me everything felt uncomfortable.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:23.839
Yeah, I feel the same way.
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.279
When I I would drink to fit in, or I thought so.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:32.400
And when I stopped drinking, I feel like I'm so much more my more most authentic self.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:39.279
Yes, that when I go anywhere, I'm just more comfortable in my skin than I ever was when I was drinking.
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:45.119
And I know a lot of people drink for social anxiety, and it actually has the opposite effect.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:52.079
I would feel more paranoid when I was drinking about, well, everybody else only had one glass and I'm ready for the second glass.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.960
Does anybody notice that I'm going back for a third glass?
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:05.119
Or like my mind was so fixated on that, or yeah, and instead of just now I just show up being myself, and I have had friends say the same thing.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.039
Well, you're a little extreme.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:07.839
That's what they said.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.920
I'm like, okay, well, whatever, that's me, you know.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.319
So, but that's so I was gonna ask you, did you lose any friends?
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:17.599
Because sometimes people do.
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:21.039
We I like to call it the friend shift, but I didn't either.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.160
Thank God.
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:34.160
Thank God, as a matter of fact, um, I have found that the the believers that were in that group with me, they they have come more forward with their faith too.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.160
They might not have quit drinking, but but they are talking more about Jesus.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:48.880
We have had as challenges have come up, we have been able to pray together and talk about the Bible and be more open about it.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:50.880
And I'm I'm so grateful for that.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:56.559
I just am because really when we're the closer we are to Jesus, the more we are authentically ourselves.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:57.759
So true.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:58.960
That's so great.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:12.559
Um, one of the questions I want to ask every guest is if you could go back and talk to the version of yourself who drank to be a cool Christian and to fit in with her friend group, what would you tell her?
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:24.640
Oh, I'd say, honey, God has made you exactly the way you are for a reason and you have so much to offer and you don't need that wine glass.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.400
Um, you you just really don't.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:32.079
All you need is me, and I'm I'm in you and with you and for you, not against you.
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:37.759
And I really do believe that we are like God's little secret agents.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:54.960
Like He He plants us in our lives in in all these different areas of our life at work, at home, in our neighborhoods, with our groups of friends, and even with this uh this whole group of friends that I developed from drinking that are still my friends now.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:29:15.039
I mean, God even used that part of my life, which I'm not proud of, to still redeem it and to still share his gospel and to still uh maybe also give me uh more more understanding too for why why people drink instead of just you know being.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.160
I don't know if you remember the church chat from Saturday Night Live.
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.400
I a lot of times I feel like I I could have I used to be more like that.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.759
I I'm not so sure I'm like that.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:24.799
I hope I'm not listening.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:26.400
No, you're not at all.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.200
But I get it.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:27.680
I get it.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:29.759
That's one of the biggest things.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:30.880
I I had the same thing.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.039
If I quit drinking and I'm a Christian, like wow, everybody's gonna think I'm a big loser or boring or whatever.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.240
It's like, oh my gosh, you know, like I get it.
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.160
And it's so so the opposite.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:44.880
Yeah, it's so oh my gosh.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:46.880
But yes, why do we worry about that?
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:47.599
I don't know.
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:49.759
Because we everybody wants to belong.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:51.519
Everyone wants to belong.
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:57.200
But you know, the difference between fitting in and belonging, belonging, you belong just by being you.
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.960
Yeah, you don't have to do anything when we do something to fit in.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:06.480
That's when it's like we're putting a mask on and we're not being our authentic self and it's not comfortable.
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:07.039
No.
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.839
So, I mean, uh how old are we now that we finally learned this, right?
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:13.359
62.
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.000
I'm 62.
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:15.119
I'm 61.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.000
So here we go.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:17.279
We're finally authentic.
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:24.480
But you know, God does redeem, He does do that, he makes good come from all things.
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.960
Even, you know, I say my mess became my message.
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:38.079
It became something I'm really passionate about to help others who maybe feel like they're stuck in this vicious drinking cycle or drinking more than they really want to, and feeling like you said, it's too hard.
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:39.599
I don't know how to do this.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.599
Well it's we're here to show you, we're here to help you.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:45.359
That's what I want to do.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:31:03.039
It it can be hard, but when you have a guide or someone to guide you through it, someone who's gone before you, and you know, and that isn't that the Christian way, too, is we reach back and we pull you up with us and we believe for you and we pray for you, and and that makes it all so much easier.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.319
Um, I just love that vision of sitting in a circle with with women.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:12.559
I feel like we're in that circle together now, kind of, and I can't talk to you.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.319
Totally listen when I see you.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.680
Um yeah, that's what a beautiful dream.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.599
I no, that's not too woo-woo for me.
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:21.519
I think it's it's beautiful.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:28.319
I wish, you know, I would hear, I'm really praying about hearing from the Holy Spirit more in my life.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:33.039
I sometimes it's hard for me to accept his love, and I'm still working on that.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:35.359
And like you said, he's so gracious.
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.200
He just keeps coming, keeps slowly, you know, inviting us.
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:45.359
He knows he knows us, so he knows what what we need and and how to draw us in.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.240
And he's just so gracious and loving.
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:56.799
So well, where can people find you and tell us a teeny bit about your book and where they can find you and follow you?
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.599
Yes, yes, and I'm also I also have a website, uh, just a broken believer.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:08.480
And you can reach me there, you can sign up for my Substack Weekly Post directly to your inbox.
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:10.480
I'm on socials right now.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:17.279
I'm trying to get off socials because I'm finding them to be a little distracting right now in my life.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.759
And the book that I currently have, I'm writing a series of books.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:34.000
I'm calling them the Broken Believer series, and they are true stories that relate to parts of our lives that maybe we don't talk about as lifelong Christians.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.400
A lot of times we we keep quiet.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.519
I find at least I did kept quiet about a lot of things.
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.799
I felt like everyone around me was Amen and Hallelujah.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:48.319
And I was just struggling inside, you know, with a big smile on my face and almost playing the game.
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.559
I a lot of times I would go to church and like, I just feel like I'm just playing the game.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:33:01.359
And that's not, God does want us to live authentically, and we it's so important to be in community and not hide and be vulnerable.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.960
I think that's why I'm trying to be more vulnerable with my life too.
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:12.640
And you know, sometimes a rock and roll song will come on and I'll be like, yeah, and they'll be like, oh, you you like that.
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:14.000
And I'm like, oh yeah.
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:18.400
You know, uh, but the proper church girl and me maybe wouldn't have shared that.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:20.160
And I think it's we're human.
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:21.839
It's not a sin to be human.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:26.480
Jesus became human and paid the price for our sin.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:37.039
And He He loves us, He understands, He advocates for us at you know, at the right hand of God, and and the Holy Spirit advocates for us also.
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:38.559
So I'm so grateful for that.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:40.720
But I'm sorry, back to my book.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:54.559
Um it's um a mother worth loving, and it is a story of growing up in the church, and my mother and I had, when I became older, my mother and I she loved me, she adored me.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.640
She came from a very broken place and suffered with some undiagnosed depression, I believe.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.119
And I always interpreted that to mean that I wasn't good enough for her.
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.119
So I never felt like I had her blessing.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:22.639
And this is a story, I just have to tell you, it's a Kleenex alert book because everyone has told me that they cried their way through a box of Kleenex, but it is a redemption story of what God did in the last time, the last period of her her life and what he did for us together.
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:27.360
I'm so excited to go to heaven and tell her all about what Jesus did.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:28.880
Well, that's beautiful.
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.480
Well, I have it, I haven't read it.
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:33.440
It's in my TBR list, which is really tall.
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.559
But I can't wait.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:40.159
And I will make sure I'm don't read it on planes or other places where you don't want to be sobbing.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:41.760
You know, I've done that before.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:46.000
I watch a movie and I'm like, I'm like, why did I pick this movie on a plane?
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:46.960
How embarrassing.
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:48.000
So, yes.
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:48.880
Well, I can't wait.
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:55.039
I think that sounds so relatable, and I'm so excited for more people to know about your book and because there's just so much healing.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.719
Yeah, a mothers and daughters.
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.800
Yes, yes, yeah.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:00.480
So that's so wonderful.
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.039
Well, thank you so much for sharing your story.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.559
I'm just so thrilled.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:12.480
It's yeah, I'm so happy to have you as a friend and be sitting crisscross applesauce with you in your circle and helping other women.
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:14.159
And I'm just so blessed.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.639
So thank you so much for being a guest.
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:18.880
And thank you to my listeners.
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.239
And just remember that you were made for more.
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:23.360
Amen.
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:26.320
Wow, wasn't that an amazing story?
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:27.599
I am so blessed.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:33.679
And if you were to, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a single episode.
