Introducing Discovery Dialogues, a new podcast from Vanderbilt Graduate School that takes you inside the dynamic world of graduate research and scholarship. From academic discoveries to personal journeys, Discovery Dialogues shines a spotlight on the remarkable contributions of Vanderbilt's graduate community.
Hello and welcome to Discovery Dialogues. I'm your host, Nick Hyer, Program Manager for Graduate and Postdoc Academic Success. And today, I'm here with Joshua McDuffie, PhD candidate in Civil and Environmental Engineering. Thanks for joining me today, Joshua.
Yeah, thanks for the invitation.
Absolutely. Today is all about discovery. If you could start and tell me a little bit about how you discovered Vanderbilt and how you knew this was the place you wanted to be.
I have some family in Tennessee and so I was familiar generally with the area but hadn't been to Nashville too often. I was part of an undergraduate research program called the Leadership Alliance. Essentially, they gave me the opportunity over three summers to experience three different research programs. The last one was at Vanderbilt. I'd been able to figure out where my interests lie, where my skill set might be best used. Upon arriving here- the community, the department, my faculty advisor- all of that really helped me feel at home. I felt like if I was going to commit to spending my time in some place, I wanted to have all of those aligned well, and I felt like that was the case here.
That's great. You mentioned the Leadership Alliance. Can you speak a little bit more about that program and the structure- what you gained from it- other than just the experience of each university?
It was excellent. It was life-changing. I remember I had a professor at my undergraduate institution. I went to North Carolina A&T in Greensboro. And she told me about this program where as a freshman, going into my sophomore year, I could get paid to do research over the summer. I was like, of course. What it was, was they gathered students from all over the country and you can apply. They had this early identification program where upon acceptance, you can go to a high-ranking institution.
My first year I went to Brown. Never heard of Brown, honestly. I'd never been to Rhode Island, but yet I get there and I work with amazing faculty. They pair you with mentors. They give you a skill set, where we are working on writing. We're working on identifying questions, really just going through the scientific method. So as a freshman, going into sophomore year, I came back for my next. And I was just like ready to go. I was like, oh, I've seen a world outside of this. Like, let me tell you about it.
That program has been around for about 25 years at this point. They have specifically helped a lot of folks from minority communities and folks that may not have had the same access or even understanding of what a grad school program looks like. They helped them to become trained and eventually PhD faculty.
That sounds amazing. Awesome. Well, Joshua, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about your research?
Here, I have had the opportunity, and one of the cool things about being a grad student is to varying degrees, you have the opportunity to really explore and learn something deeply. I was able to align my interests with my curiosity and skill set. I am an engineering student, so I've taken classes as a civil engineer.
But upon getting here, I realized a couple of things. One is that civil engineering deals with how people move and creating spaces for people to thrive. So that's your roads, your bridges, but also water, energy, structures, and yet my background and interest aligned more with the people-side of things. I came here and I wanted to see how I could understand the systems that we develop but also the people within the systems and see how they operate.
So, my research is centered around how people make decisions in a disaster context. These decisions might be whether to invest in flood mitigation, which is essentially preparation actions. I look at: what are some of the challenges that affect their ability to even decide. “Before I even get the chance to decide, do I even have money to do this? Do I even know what to do?” There are a ton of things that as a technical community, as engineers, we might overlook when we design solutions. These tend to be the factors that determine whether what we design gets used like we think it should be used.
You mentioned the challenges. Have you figured out what is that biggest or the biggest challenges when designing something like that?
We've seen three themes for these two big categories. There are three common barriers and then there are three common misunderstandings. The barriers tend to be, I don't have access to financial resources to prepare for a disaster. “It doesn't matter if the engineer is telling me to do this small fix- that small fix is my grocery budget”. But then there is the, “I would do something, but I don't know what to do.” And then there's also, “I would try, but I'm not sure I trust the institution, or I don't even trust my ability to act. I'd rather just wait it out.”
Gotcha.
So those are some of the common barriers. And then the misunderstandings are: “When I receive that information, am I understanding it correctly?” For example, we might give a statistic of one in four homes might flood or a 1% chance of flooding. Depending on how I understand that, and the values I have, that makes a difference between whether that's enough for me to act or not. Then the other misunderstandings have to do with the role that a person might play. “Is it my responsibility to take care of this? Is it the government's responsibility? Is it my landlord's responsibility?” So we've identified misunderstandings and barriers that contribute to whether people make a decision to act, to prepare for, say, a flood.
As somebody who once rented in a floodplain area, I understand the importance to that for sure. Can you talk a little bit about how you got so interested in this specific topic?
Two big things stand out. I remember two natural disaster events that I watched from afar. The first one was the earthquake in Haiti. I remember looking at that, and it was specifically devastating. Especially when I started to understand the role that infrastructure played in the loss of life. You had older structures that maybe weren't up to the standards that we see in more developed areas. And so, that led to a larger loss of life. I'd seen tsunamis and things like that.
It started to click that maybe engineering, designing these systems- and also how we behave in these systems- maybe it can play a role in helping defend those people that might be most vulnerable to a disaster.
The other thing was our basement flooded when I was a kid. Yeah. And we couldn't go down for a whole year. We used to play basketball on this little Fisher Price court there. And, you know, that was quite disappointing. But we had to have a sump pump installed. Just going through that process, I just became aware of not only the challenges, but some solutions to address a flood risk or disaster risk.
That's great. It's always so interesting how those core memories end up shaping us in different ways. Can you talk a little bit about discoveries that you've made in your research since coming to Vanderbilt?
It's been really fun to do research as a grad student because I've had the opportunity to challenge my assumptions and grow in areas that I didn't think I would know about. Part of the discovery has been, wow, human perception- the way that we perceive a risk- has so much of an effect on everything we do from day-to-day. And the motivation to participate in actions for things that we care about. It's really values driven. I think that's something that's become more evident to me as I've done research. If we are to encourage people to take actions to protect themselves, we need to discuss what values they have and we need to meet them where they are and give them the option- they still may not want to do it.
The idea around the research I'm doing is remove all the challenges that would otherwise limit people from having to make the best decision for them. And then at that point, they can make it based on their values. And they'll understand the risks, the consequences, and the benefits. But I'm really just about removing those barriers through good communication, through good policy.
That's great. While you've been here, what have you enjoyed most about being a graduate student?
You meet so many cool people. You really do. I've had the chance to attend conferences, and there are a lot of cool groups on campus. I found places where I can have a sense of belonging, where I can develop as a leader. I've been able to have cool conversations with faculty from departments. And all of that's combined to help me grow as a person.
I think the cool thing has been you have the ability to explore. If you like learning and if you're okay with challenging your assumptions, I can't recommend a better next step than becoming a grad student. Now, you know, don't think you're going to be rich. But the experience is rich. So I've enjoyed it.
You mentioned finding those places of belonging. Can you speak a little to where you found that?
Yes. We worked in our department. I came here around the time when the pandemic was at its peak- and so, as a grad student in a department where the whole cohort first met virtually. We really had to work to create spaces where we can get to know each other and form the mutual support network. Through leadership opportunities in my department and also I was a part of OBGAP's organization for black graduate and professional students.
In a similar manner, we're coming from different backgrounds, but we create these shared spaces where we can be more than a student. A lot of times the focus is so much on the academics and the outcome, the papers, the lab work. But we are people as well. And it's important to balance that. And, you know, it's nice to share a meal with someone who is also complaining about their writing load that they have to do. Or, you know, it's a medication of some sort. That you're not in this alone.
Exactly. Well, can you, on the flip side of that, speak a little bit about the biggest challenge that you faced here?
Yeah. Every journey comes with its challenges. I would say around the middle of my program, I had a decision I had to make. My advisor had gotten a different position at a different university. And it was essentially, I had to decide if I was going to stay here or go with my faculty advisor. I think after assessing everything, I felt so comfortable with the network and the support system that I had here, that I was willing to stay and explore the option of finishing here.
So that comes with its challenges- when you're switching funding. You might have to alter your project a bit. You have to form a committee and keep them updated on your work. But that has kind of been supplemented by the networking that I've been able to do, which has brought me mentors here and at other universities. Even now, I'm working with a faculty from another university and writing a paper, and he's been so supportive. And so, I've kind of been able to have structure that I needed, and it kind of confirmed my intuition that I could stay here and still get the job done.
You mentioned building that mentor network. Can you talk a little bit about how you proactively did that?
Yes. I would tell any first-year grad student, please don't be afraid of reaching out to random people. If you read a paper of someone that you think is interesting, just email them. My entire research topic really started after I read a cool book and I reached out to the guy who wrote it, all the way in Germany. I kind of just forgot about it. And then three weeks later, he responds. He's like, “I'm glad you're interested in the topic. Let me introduce you to someone.” That person who he introduced me to is now a very important mentor and a co-author with me as well. There's just been so many situations where taking the initiative to put yourself out there has yielded results beyond my wildest expectations.
That's amazing. You know, I talk with a lot of grad students and I feel like there's this sense of “I'm not worthy. I don't deserve to reach out to this person.” And what I try to tell them is “You don't have to say no for the person. Let them say no.” But I'm curious, did you feel that at all? And if so, how did you overcome that feeling?
Yeah, I mean, of course. I overcame it over time. I'm not even going to say when I sent that email, that I expected anything back. And it was very much a, “Well, you know, if you have any time, if you don't mind,” you know. What I have learned over time is that even us, as students, we still have a lot to offer. Maybe we have looked at the established person’s research in a way that they haven't considered, because they've been looking at it for a long time. In this particular interest, I found a way to sort of extend the faculty member’s work into a new area. So, it actually becomes a mutual thing, where they are giving their time, but you are collaborators. Once you get to this stage, you have to keep telling yourself- because again, I might have just realized this like last week- but you have to keep telling yourself that you have value as well. You're not just in a parasitical relationship. There are unique skills and perspectives and ideas that you can bring to a conversation like that. All you do is really understand who you are and what you're bringing to the table, and people will work with you.
Tell me a little bit about how you've discovered who you are.
This process has showed me that I have the capacity for resilience and perseverance. And there's nothing like a good test to confirm where you are in life. Overall, I have really learned so much as a student. And it's been from the research and it's been from how I've felt doing the research. I've learned a lot about myself. Like, oh man, you know, I really don't like doing this. This makes me uncomfortable.
Then it's been, I need some structure. For example, I actually did the CliftonStrengths assessment and sat down with you. We talked about ways to structure my day based on the things that I naturally do, how I naturally pick up information and work in teams. And that helped me organize my day so that I could feel at the end of the day that I did something. That was important to me. That helped me become more productive and, you know, more holistically healthy. So, there are things like that, resources that I've been able to tap into while being here. And I've just learned that it's okay to ask for help.
Absolutely. You mentioned the CliftonStrengths. I'm curious, what other Vanderbilt resources have you discovered that were particularly helpful in the journey?
Writing Center has been a big part of my journey as well. I've gone to several of the workshops, and they have a myriad of tools, a myriad of insights that have helped me to critique my own writing better, and to be more direct in my approach. I've been told that I can write like a novelist- you know, very all over the place, nice words and all that. But, for the technical audience that I'll often talk to, it needs to be more direct. And it's hard to see some of those things in your writing if you've been looking at it for five months.
Those workshops have been important, but there's so much. There are Fuel Fridays where we can just check in and get some snacks. There's events at the Black Cultural Center that I've gone to. There are athletic games. The list just goes on. Basically, there are seemingly infinite resources here. You find what you need to get through. But for me, I really needed the writing. I really needed support and belonging. And I was able to find those.
That's great. Is there any writing consultant you want to shout out?
There's a few. Drew. Thank you, Drew. Thank you, John. I'm forgetting their last names.
That's Drew Shipley and John Bradley.
Yes. Yes, both excellent. Yeah, Drew literally went line-by-line with me. He was like, “Yeah here you know you're saying a lot. Let's condense this here. You don't need a comma here.” You know, that level of detail, when I step back and look at the writing, I'm like, “That is cleaner. Thank you.”
Sometimes it's just another set of eyes right?
Then I had to explain what I was doing to them as well, which then makes sure that I know what I'm doing. Because if I don't know what I'm supposed to be writing, how will they know? So all around, very helpful. And they have a lot of snacks.
Awesome. Always helpful. Could you talk a little bit about the accomplishment or award that you're most proud of during your time here?
Yes. I received an honor from the Black Cultural Center called the Unsung Hero Award. It was for service to the Vanderbilt community in different capacities. That really meant a lot to me. I am someone that I would like to just volunteer and not be in the limelight too much. And that was perfectly okay with me. But it meant a lot that people saw me and wanted to acknowledge that. Since being here, I'd had the chance to do things like go read to students at school, volunteer with different organizations. Those have been really important and impactful for me. I kind of just did it because I felt like it was the right thing to do, but it was an honor to be, I guess, honored.
Well, and just the name of the award itself, “The Unsung Hero”, as you talk about why you did those things in the first place, I think it is something that probably really connected with you.
Yeah, it was really nice. I had my family come down and be there as well. They gave us a little crown. So it's something that I have on my desk as a reminder.
You mentioned family. Tell me a little bit about how you've stayed connected to them through the journey and explain your research to folks that are in it every day.
That's always the challenge. The two questions I'll always get is, “What are you doing again?” and, “When are you going to be done?” I can usually answer the first one, but I have to do it many times. And then the second one, I'm just like, I'm working on it.
All in good time.
Yeah, yeah. But I will say that having your family with you during this journey, I mean, the PhD by itself, it can be very isolating. You get to a point where there may not be many people who you can really talk to about your work, at a certain level. But that doesn't negate the fact that you need general support. I think at this point, my parents can tell people generally what I do: “He does stuff with floods and engineering and stuff.” But what they have contributed was at each stage, I'm telling them, I have this really big thing coming up and I'm not sure about it. They’re like: you got it. And I'm like: you don't understand. Let me tell you. And they're like: no, you'll be fine.
Yeah, I had a conversation with my family and my now fiance right before my qualifying exam. And I think prior to that conversation, I was like, I'm going to fail. Then after the conversation, I just walked in, like, smiling. And I think that energy kind of made the difference.
Yeah, that's great. I think it's so important to keep those that matter close to you in all parts of your life, but particularly the challenging ones. As you think back on your journey, what is something that you wish you had known that you want to share with others?
I would probably tell first-year-me a lot of what I mentioned before, which is: you can contribute value, as a student, at this point. I think at times early on, you spend a lot of time either leaning on your advisor or like waiting for them to say go. Then you do exactly what they said and then that's it. I think I’ve had a richer experience the more that I've learned to do my own research- to explore the literature outside what I've been given, to look for themes and narratives. Because there's a point where in your work, you become more of the expert on this particular topic. You know, some of the later conversations are more like you telling them what you found. And they're trusting that they've trained you enough that it's right. But, that confidence early on, I think, can really accelerate a student once they take hold of the fact that: this isn't undergrad anymore. Like, your curriculum is a bit different. Your learning has to be outside the classroom to a degree that it probably hasn't been before. But once you recognize that, the world is yours.
Yeah, I think a lot about graduate school as developing the independent scientist or independent researcher. And so it sounds like that's something you've been able to do over time.
Yeah, definitely. And again, not comfortable. Many times there's regret sometimes, but ultimately it works out.
You talked a little bit earlier too about kind of being uncomfortable, knowing where and when to kind of jump into and out of things. How have you deciphered, “This is uncomfortable and I want to push through that,” or “This is uncomfortable and I want to back away from it?”
The difference between those two have been doing some legwork in the beginning to organize my goals. Prior to, say, conversations that we had when I was a bit disorganized in what I was doing, it's hard to know where to stop. I remember us talking about how I had so many tabs of research articles that I thought were interesting, and I'd have like 200 tabs and this article had three things and this had five. And the way that you learn to stop that is, what are my goals? What is the reason why I'm looking at this stuff? Because then you decide, all right, this is interesting, but it's not directly contributing to my goals. Maybe I come back to it at a later point. And I've been able to clarify my goals for each research endeavor so that the articles I'm looking at, the work that I'm doing, I say, all right, this is difficult. But if I do this, this directly affects this. So I'll keep going. Versus this is difficult and I'm probably not going to benefit from this anytime soon. So I'm going to put it to the side for now. But, come back because it's interesting. And we have to balance our interests with utility.
Well said. You mentioned the mentorship network a little bit earlier. Is there anything else you want to say about mentorship, in terms of the importance of it on your journey?
Yes, it's really been as important for me to give as to receive. And I've had a lot of cool opportunities to work with undergraduate students and help them, like show them my journey, and show them the places where I've struggled and wherever I've succeeded. That's actually given me a lot of insight into how I can do things better as well.
I would encourage students to also get outside your bubble and realize, again, going back to the theme, that you are a resource as well. So, as much as you want to learn from faculty and senior students, it's equally important to engage with other students maybe who are trying to get where you're going. I had a cool discussion with a student trying to organize their time and manage their tasks. I was like, “Oh, some of this stuff I'm telling you, I should be doing.” And it was just a good reminder that we can always learn and we can always grow. It's important to have that perspective. Giving and receiving, that's been healthy for me.
That's great. Joshua. Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience before we end today?
I'm sure they're tired of me talking, but it has been a pleasure. I do want to say that, again, the PhD is a very difficult journey, but it's one that will grow you in every area of your life. Despite the challenges, I think I would do it again. Not in the same life. But if I had to go back, I would do it again.
Well, thank you so much for spending some of your time and expertise with us today. It's been a real pleasure.
Yes, thank you.
Thanks for joining us on another episode of Discovery Dialogues. Stay connected with the Vanderbilt Graduate School. as we continue exploring ideas, innovations, and people shaping our academic community. Until next time, keep asking questions, stay curious, and continue discovering what inspires you.
This podcast was recorded in Studio 608 at Vanderbilt University, with the assistance of JT Spangler. This podcast is produced by Anna Thomas, Nick Hyer, and Stacey Satchell in the Graduate School at Vanderbilt University, with audio editing by Ben Hill. The perspectives shared in this episode are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Vanderbilt University.
Hello and welcome to Discovery Dialogues. I'm your host, Nick Hyer, Program Manager for Graduate and Postdoc Academic Success. And today, I'm here with Joshua McDuffie, PhD candidate in Civil and Environmental Engineering. Thanks for joining me today, Joshua.
Yeah, thanks for the invitation.
Absolutely. Today is all about discovery. If you could start and tell me a little bit about how you discovered Vanderbilt and how you knew this was the place you wanted to be.
I have some family in Tennessee and so I was familiar generally with the area but hadn't been to Nashville too often. I was part of an undergraduate research program called the Leadership Alliance. Essentially, they gave me the opportunity over three summers to experience three different research programs. The last one was at Vanderbilt. I'd been able to figure out where my interests lie, where my skill set might be best used. Upon arriving here- the community, the department, my faculty advisor- all of that really helped me feel at home. I felt like if I was going to commit to spending my time in some place, I wanted to have all of those aligned well, and I felt like that was the case here.
That's great. You mentioned the Leadership Alliance. Can you speak a little bit more about that program and the structure- what you gained from it- other than just the experience of each university?
It was excellent. It was life-changing. I remember I had a professor at my undergraduate institution. I went to North Carolina A&T in Greensboro. And she told me about this program where as a freshman, going into my sophomore year, I could get paid to do research over the summer. I was like, of course. What it was, was they gathered students from all over the country and you can apply. They had this early identification program where upon acceptance, you can go to a high-ranking institution.
My first year I went to Brown. Never heard of Brown, honestly. I'd never been to Rhode Island, but yet I get there and I work with amazing faculty. They pair you with mentors. They give you a skill set, where we are working on writing. We're working on identifying questions, really just going through the scientific method. So as a freshman, going into sophomore year, I came back for my next. And I was just like ready to go. I was like, oh, I've seen a world outside of this. Like, let me tell you about it.
That program has been around for about 25 years at this point. They have specifically helped a lot of folks from minority communities and folks that may not have had the same access or even understanding of what a grad school program looks like. They helped them to become trained and eventually PhD faculty.
That sounds amazing. Awesome. Well, Joshua, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about your research?
Here, I have had the opportunity, and one of the cool things about being a grad student is to varying degrees, you have the opportunity to really explore and learn something deeply. I was able to align my interests with my curiosity and skill set. I am an engineering student, so I've taken classes as a civil engineer.
But upon getting here, I realized a couple of things. One is that civil engineering deals with how people move and creating spaces for people to thrive. So that's your roads, your bridges, but also water, energy, structures, and yet my background and interest aligned more with the people-side of things. I came here and I wanted to see how I could understand the systems that we develop but also the people within the systems and see how they operate.
So, my research is centered around how people make decisions in a disaster context. These decisions might be whether to invest in flood mitigation, which is essentially preparation actions. I look at: what are some of the challenges that affect their ability to even decide. “Before I even get the chance to decide, do I even have money to do this? Do I even know what to do?” There are a ton of things that as a technical community, as engineers, we might overlook when we design solutions. These tend to be the factors that determine whether what we design gets used like we think it should be used.
You mentioned the challenges. Have you figured out what is that biggest or the biggest challenges when designing something like that?
We've seen three themes for these two big categories. There are three common barriers and then there are three common misunderstandings. The barriers tend to be, I don't have access to financial resources to prepare for a disaster. “It doesn't matter if the engineer is telling me to do this small fix- that small fix is my grocery budget”. But then there is the, “I would do something, but I don't know what to do.” And then there's also, “I would try, but I'm not sure I trust the institution, or I don't even trust my ability to act. I'd rather just wait it out.”
Gotcha.
So those are some of the common barriers. And then the misunderstandings are: “When I receive that information, am I understanding it correctly?” For example, we might give a statistic of one in four homes might flood or a 1% chance of flooding. Depending on how I understand that, and the values I have, that makes a difference between whether that's enough for me to act or not. Then the other misunderstandings have to do with the role that a person might play. “Is it my responsibility to take care of this? Is it the government's responsibility? Is it my landlord's responsibility?” So we've identified misunderstandings and barriers that contribute to whether people make a decision to act, to prepare for, say, a flood.
As somebody who once rented in a floodplain area, I understand the importance to that for sure. Can you talk a little bit about how you got so interested in this specific topic?
Two big things stand out. I remember two natural disaster events that I watched from afar. The first one was the earthquake in Haiti. I remember looking at that, and it was specifically devastating. Especially when I started to understand the role that infrastructure played in the loss of life. You had older structures that maybe weren't up to the standards that we see in more developed areas. And so, that led to a larger loss of life. I'd seen tsunamis and things like that.
It started to click that maybe engineering, designing these systems- and also how we behave in these systems- maybe it can play a role in helping defend those people that might be most vulnerable to a disaster.
The other thing was our basement flooded when I was a kid. Yeah. And we couldn't go down for a whole year. We used to play basketball on this little Fisher Price court there. And, you know, that was quite disappointing. But we had to have a sump pump installed. Just going through that process, I just became aware of not only the challenges, but some solutions to address a flood risk or disaster risk.
That's great. It's always so interesting how those core memories end up shaping us in different ways. Can you talk a little bit about discoveries that you've made in your research since coming to Vanderbilt?
It's been really fun to do research as a grad student because I've had the opportunity to challenge my assumptions and grow in areas that I didn't think I would know about. Part of the discovery has been, wow, human perception- the way that we perceive a risk- has so much of an effect on everything we do from day-to-day. And the motivation to participate in actions for things that we care about. It's really values driven. I think that's something that's become more evident to me as I've done research. If we are to encourage people to take actions to protect themselves, we need to discuss what values they have and we need to meet them where they are and give them the option- they still may not want to do it.
The idea around the research I'm doing is remove all the challenges that would otherwise limit people from having to make the best decision for them. And then at that point, they can make it based on their values. And they'll understand the risks, the consequences, and the benefits. But I'm really just about removing those barriers through good communication, through good policy.
That's great. While you've been here, what have you enjoyed most about being a graduate student?
You meet so many cool people. You really do. I've had the chance to attend conferences, and there are a lot of cool groups on campus. I found places where I can have a sense of belonging, where I can develop as a leader. I've been able to have cool conversations with faculty from departments. And all of that's combined to help me grow as a person.
I think the cool thing has been you have the ability to explore. If you like learning and if you're okay with challenging your assumptions, I can't recommend a better next step than becoming a grad student. Now, you know, don't think you're going to be rich. But the experience is rich. So I've enjoyed it.
You mentioned finding those places of belonging. Can you speak a little to where you found that?
Yes. We worked in our department. I came here around the time when the pandemic was at its peak- and so, as a grad student in a department where the whole cohort first met virtually. We really had to work to create spaces where we can get to know each other and form the mutual support network. Through leadership opportunities in my department and also I was a part of OBGAP's organization for black graduate and professional students.
In a similar manner, we're coming from different backgrounds, but we create these shared spaces where we can be more than a student. A lot of times the focus is so much on the academics and the outcome, the papers, the lab work. But we are people as well. And it's important to balance that. And, you know, it's nice to share a meal with someone who is also complaining about their writing load that they have to do. Or, you know, it's a medication of some sort. That you're not in this alone.
Exactly. Well, can you, on the flip side of that, speak a little bit about the biggest challenge that you faced here?
Yeah. Every journey comes with its challenges. I would say around the middle of my program, I had a decision I had to make. My advisor had gotten a different position at a different university. And it was essentially, I had to decide if I was going to stay here or go with my faculty advisor. I think after assessing everything, I felt so comfortable with the network and the support system that I had here, that I was willing to stay and explore the option of finishing here.
So that comes with its challenges- when you're switching funding. You might have to alter your project a bit. You have to form a committee and keep them updated on your work. But that has kind of been supplemented by the networking that I've been able to do, which has brought me mentors here and at other universities. Even now, I'm working with a faculty from another university and writing a paper, and he's been so supportive. And so, I've kind of been able to have structure that I needed, and it kind of confirmed my intuition that I could stay here and still get the job done.
You mentioned building that mentor network. Can you talk a little bit about how you proactively did that?
Yes. I would tell any first-year grad student, please don't be afraid of reaching out to random people. If you read a paper of someone that you think is interesting, just email them. My entire research topic really started after I read a cool book and I reached out to the guy who wrote it, all the way in Germany. I kind of just forgot about it. And then three weeks later, he responds. He's like, “I'm glad you're interested in the topic. Let me introduce you to someone.” That person who he introduced me to is now a very important mentor and a co-author with me as well. There's just been so many situations where taking the initiative to put yourself out there has yielded results beyond my wildest expectations.
That's amazing. You know, I talk with a lot of grad students and I feel like there's this sense of “I'm not worthy. I don't deserve to reach out to this person.” And what I try to tell them is “You don't have to say no for the person. Let them say no.” But I'm curious, did you feel that at all? And if so, how did you overcome that feeling?
Yeah, I mean, of course. I overcame it over time. I'm not even going to say when I sent that email, that I expected anything back. And it was very much a, “Well, you know, if you have any time, if you don't mind,” you know. What I have learned over time is that even us, as students, we still have a lot to offer. Maybe we have looked at the established person’s research in a way that they haven't considered, because they've been looking at it for a long time. In this particular interest, I found a way to sort of extend the faculty member’s work into a new area. So, it actually becomes a mutual thing, where they are giving their time, but you are collaborators. Once you get to this stage, you have to keep telling yourself- because again, I might have just realized this like last week- but you have to keep telling yourself that you have value as well. You're not just in a parasitical relationship. There are unique skills and perspectives and ideas that you can bring to a conversation like that. All you do is really understand who you are and what you're bringing to the table, and people will work with you.
Tell me a little bit about how you've discovered who you are.
This process has showed me that I have the capacity for resilience and perseverance. And there's nothing like a good test to confirm where you are in life. Overall, I have really learned so much as a student. And it's been from the research and it's been from how I've felt doing the research. I've learned a lot about myself. Like, oh man, you know, I really don't like doing this. This makes me uncomfortable.
Then it's been, I need some structure. For example, I actually did the CliftonStrengths assessment and sat down with you. We talked about ways to structure my day based on the things that I naturally do, how I naturally pick up information and work in teams. And that helped me organize my day so that I could feel at the end of the day that I did something. That was important to me. That helped me become more productive and, you know, more holistically healthy. So, there are things like that, resources that I've been able to tap into while being here. And I've just learned that it's okay to ask for help.
Absolutely. You mentioned the CliftonStrengths. I'm curious, what other Vanderbilt resources have you discovered that were particularly helpful in the journey?
Writing Center has been a big part of my journey as well. I've gone to several of the workshops, and they have a myriad of tools, a myriad of insights that have helped me to critique my own writing better, and to be more direct in my approach. I've been told that I can write like a novelist- you know, very all over the place, nice words and all that. But, for the technical audience that I'll often talk to, it needs to be more direct. And it's hard to see some of those things in your writing if you've been looking at it for five months.
Those workshops have been important, but there's so much. There are Fuel Fridays where we can just check in and get some snacks. There's events at the Black Cultural Center that I've gone to. There are athletic games. The list just goes on. Basically, there are seemingly infinite resources here. You find what you need to get through. But for me, I really needed the writing. I really needed support and belonging. And I was able to find those.
That's great. Is there any writing consultant you want to shout out?
There's a few. Drew. Thank you, Drew. Thank you, John. I'm forgetting their last names.
That's Drew Shipley and John Bradley.
Yes. Yes, both excellent. Yeah, Drew literally went line-by-line with me. He was like, “Yeah here you know you're saying a lot. Let's condense this here. You don't need a comma here.” You know, that level of detail, when I step back and look at the writing, I'm like, “That is cleaner. Thank you.”
Sometimes it's just another set of eyes right?
Then I had to explain what I was doing to them as well, which then makes sure that I know what I'm doing. Because if I don't know what I'm supposed to be writing, how will they know? So all around, very helpful. And they have a lot of snacks.
Awesome. Always helpful. Could you talk a little bit about the accomplishment or award that you're most proud of during your time here?
Yes. I received an honor from the Black Cultural Center called the Unsung Hero Award. It was for service to the Vanderbilt community in different capacities. That really meant a lot to me. I am someone that I would like to just volunteer and not be in the limelight too much. And that was perfectly okay with me. But it meant a lot that people saw me and wanted to acknowledge that. Since being here, I'd had the chance to do things like go read to students at school, volunteer with different organizations. Those have been really important and impactful for me. I kind of just did it because I felt like it was the right thing to do, but it was an honor to be, I guess, honored.
Well, and just the name of the award itself, “The Unsung Hero”, as you talk about why you did those things in the first place, I think it is something that probably really connected with you.
Yeah, it was really nice. I had my family come down and be there as well. They gave us a little crown. So it's something that I have on my desk as a reminder.
You mentioned family. Tell me a little bit about how you've stayed connected to them through the journey and explain your research to folks that are in it every day.
That's always the challenge. The two questions I'll always get is, “What are you doing again?” and, “When are you going to be done?” I can usually answer the first one, but I have to do it many times. And then the second one, I'm just like, I'm working on it.
All in good time.
Yeah, yeah. But I will say that having your family with you during this journey, I mean, the PhD by itself, it can be very isolating. You get to a point where there may not be many people who you can really talk to about your work, at a certain level. But that doesn't negate the fact that you need general support. I think at this point, my parents can tell people generally what I do: “He does stuff with floods and engineering and stuff.” But what they have contributed was at each stage, I'm telling them, I have this really big thing coming up and I'm not sure about it. They’re like: you got it. And I'm like: you don't understand. Let me tell you. And they're like: no, you'll be fine.
Yeah, I had a conversation with my family and my now fiance right before my qualifying exam. And I think prior to that conversation, I was like, I'm going to fail. Then after the conversation, I just walked in, like, smiling. And I think that energy kind of made the difference.
Yeah, that's great. I think it's so important to keep those that matter close to you in all parts of your life, but particularly the challenging ones. As you think back on your journey, what is something that you wish you had known that you want to share with others?
I would probably tell first-year-me a lot of what I mentioned before, which is: you can contribute value, as a student, at this point. I think at times early on, you spend a lot of time either leaning on your advisor or like waiting for them to say go. Then you do exactly what they said and then that's it. I think I’ve had a richer experience the more that I've learned to do my own research- to explore the literature outside what I've been given, to look for themes and narratives. Because there's a point where in your work, you become more of the expert on this particular topic. You know, some of the later conversations are more like you telling them what you found. And they're trusting that they've trained you enough that it's right. But, that confidence early on, I think, can really accelerate a student once they take hold of the fact that: this isn't undergrad anymore. Like, your curriculum is a bit different. Your learning has to be outside the classroom to a degree that it probably hasn't been before. But once you recognize that, the world is yours.
Yeah, I think a lot about graduate school as developing the independent scientist or independent researcher. And so it sounds like that's something you've been able to do over time.
Yeah, definitely. And again, not comfortable. Many times there's regret sometimes, but ultimately it works out.
You talked a little bit earlier too about kind of being uncomfortable, knowing where and when to kind of jump into and out of things. How have you deciphered, “This is uncomfortable and I want to push through that,” or “This is uncomfortable and I want to back away from it?”
The difference between those two have been doing some legwork in the beginning to organize my goals. Prior to, say, conversations that we had when I was a bit disorganized in what I was doing, it's hard to know where to stop. I remember us talking about how I had so many tabs of research articles that I thought were interesting, and I'd have like 200 tabs and this article had three things and this had five. And the way that you learn to stop that is, what are my goals? What is the reason why I'm looking at this stuff? Because then you decide, all right, this is interesting, but it's not directly contributing to my goals. Maybe I come back to it at a later point. And I've been able to clarify my goals for each research endeavor so that the articles I'm looking at, the work that I'm doing, I say, all right, this is difficult. But if I do this, this directly affects this. So I'll keep going. Versus this is difficult and I'm probably not going to benefit from this anytime soon. So I'm going to put it to the side for now. But, come back because it's interesting. And we have to balance our interests with utility.
Well said. You mentioned the mentorship network a little bit earlier. Is there anything else you want to say about mentorship, in terms of the importance of it on your journey?
Yes, it's really been as important for me to give as to receive. And I've had a lot of cool opportunities to work with undergraduate students and help them, like show them my journey, and show them the places where I've struggled and wherever I've succeeded. That's actually given me a lot of insight into how I can do things better as well.
I would encourage students to also get outside your bubble and realize, again, going back to the theme, that you are a resource as well. So, as much as you want to learn from faculty and senior students, it's equally important to engage with other students maybe who are trying to get where you're going. I had a cool discussion with a student trying to organize their time and manage their tasks. I was like, “Oh, some of this stuff I'm telling you, I should be doing.” And it was just a good reminder that we can always learn and we can always grow. It's important to have that perspective. Giving and receiving, that's been healthy for me.
That's great. Joshua. Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience before we end today?
I'm sure they're tired of me talking, but it has been a pleasure. I do want to say that, again, the PhD is a very difficult journey, but it's one that will grow you in every area of your life. Despite the challenges, I think I would do it again. Not in the same life. But if I had to go back, I would do it again.
Well, thank you so much for spending some of your time and expertise with us today. It's been a real pleasure.
Yes, thank you.
Thanks for joining us on another episode of Discovery Dialogues. Stay connected with the Vanderbilt Graduate School. as we continue exploring ideas, innovations, and people shaping our academic community. Until next time, keep asking questions, stay curious, and continue discovering what inspires you.
This podcast was recorded in Studio 608 at Vanderbilt University, with the assistance of JT Spangler. This podcast is produced by Anna Thomas, Nick Hyer, and Stacey Satchell in the Graduate School at Vanderbilt University, with audio editing by Ben Hill. The perspectives shared in this episode are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Vanderbilt University.
