The Anger Toolbox

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Hello and welcome to our podcast named Detours.
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This podcast embraces the unexpected twists and turns that shapes the journeys of our
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lives that God sends us down.
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I'm your host and fellow traveler Mike.
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I'm here with my beautiful wife Deb and we invite you to join us on this exploration
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of uncharted territories we encounter along the way.
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So without further ado, let's dive into this episode.
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Detours family, hello and welcome to episode number three, I believe we are on for season
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four.
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Hi guys.
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What is going on Deb?
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Gosh, episode just keep coming back around like we're still doing this wonderful thing.
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Yeah, it's getting honestly, it's getting easier.
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I think so.
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Yeah, the the just the joy that comes out of doing this, you know, it just yeah, it's
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nice to have this that we get to look forward to every couple of weeks.
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I know we get to talk through some pretty deep things.
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So at least we think it's true.
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People may be laughing at us as we say that.
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Well, fair enough.
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Yeah.
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So I think we were talking, you know, obviously getting ready for this episode and we kind
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of agreed that in the last episode we talked about what you called the anger management
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toolbox, correct?
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That's correct.
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Yeah.
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And I think we briefly touched on one or two of those items, but you said there's a lot
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more to this toolbox, right?
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I think we can unpack a lot of the different tools and I think that anyone wanting to build
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a toolbox to help them manage their stress and their anger can really have as many tools
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as they want.
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I think these are just things that have worked for me and I'm sure you're going to mention
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some things that work for you.
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And but yeah.
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So what were items number one and two that we've already at least briefly touched on?
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We briefly touched on your body speaks.
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So knowing your physiological responses to anger and kind of getting those warning signs
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and going, okay, here they come.
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What do I do now?
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So you're not so caught off guard.
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And then also we talked briefly about knowing your triggers.
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What are the things that are really pushing your buttons?
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And a lot of times it's not what you're actually dealing with.
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A lot of times it's something deeper, a hurt or something that's touched you maybe in childhood
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or previously.
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And it's now starting to resurface.
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And so let's give some context to where we're pulling from this toolbox.
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This is a toolbox that you have assembled in conjunction with Trees of Hope, an organization
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that you serve with around sexual abuse.
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I'm sure you're not, we're not the first podcast out there to say anger is a secondary emotion,
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right?
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That's very common knowledge.
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But the context for this was Trees of Hope kind of approached you and asked you to assist
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with a certain area of their curriculum.
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And you've kind of assembled this toolbox over the course of however many months of
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writing and working with them, right?
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Right.
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I mean, this comes from lots of different healing groups.
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There's not one in particular, but I did write a 40-day devotional for them.
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And part of the devotional is managing anger from sexual abuse.
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And so this was part of the curriculum.
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But I think this is appropriate for all kinds of anger.
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Because not every listener that's going to listen to us has had that struggle.
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But anger comes up for all of us.
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It's a human emotion that we can't escape.
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Yeah, I have no experience with sexual abuse and yet I struggle with anger.
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So yeah, there's going to be things that you'll kind of unpack today that all relate differently
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to.
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But so what is, let's kind of start diving in.
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What was anger toolbox tool number one?
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Oh, like I said, we're going to talk about how the body responds during the anger process.
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Because there's a lot of times where people get to the point of exploding like right away
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and they're like, how did I get here?
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That's me.
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I'm a spewer.
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Evil.
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I'll bottle it up and then something will happen that is the straw that breaks the camel's
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back.
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And then I say something that I regret.
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That's me.
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You know, and interesting that you say that because sometimes we're talking and it looks
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like we're doing the fun banter and all of a sudden it's not fun anymore.
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And I'm like, hmm, that was quick.
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Am I missing some signals here?
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Like that was quick.
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No, it was.
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It was probably something building up inside of me.
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And yeah, I'm definitely that where, you know, other people will bottle it up and that's
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no good.
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Right.
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You know, there's spewers, there's bottling up, there's all sorts of reactions to that
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anger and none of, well, almost none of it is good.
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Right.
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So let's talk about Jesus having righteous anger.
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Correct.
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So we will also talk about at some point either today or in a future episode, something about
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the right kind of anger and how to handle that.
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But let's dive into the toolbox for now and if we cross that bridge, we cross it.
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Fair enough.
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But so talk to me.
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When did you start getting angry growing up?
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Oh gosh, that's embarrassing.
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I think I was angry very young.
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Yeah.
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And I think I talked about in the previous episode, anger was a very common emotion often
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displayed in my home and really the only really acceptable form of emotion that could be had.
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So I was angry young.
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And do you remember the emotions around that?
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Have they always been the same at least pattern wise?
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Has it evolved?
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Yeah, I think it evolves.
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I think when you're little, you don't know how to articulate your anger.
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You don't understand where it's coming from.
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You know, looking back as an adult woman to my younger self, I know exactly where the
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anger came from.
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Most of it was around injustice or being not validated, not being allowed to just have
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emotions and so that would tick you off too.
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But as you get older, there typically is different responses your body has that you can articulate
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as an adult that you couldn't articulate as a kid.
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And so a lot of times like you're saying, you bottle up.
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There has to be something that your body warns you about.
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Maybe it's a heaviness in your chest.
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Maybe your breathing pattern changes.
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Maybe your teeth clench and your temples start to throb.
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There are things that your body is going, warning, warning.
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Anger is coming.
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It's kind of like the light on the dashboard.
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Yes.
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You know, the check engine light.
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The light itself isn't the issue.
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It's just that indicator that something under the hood is going on.
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So that's what you're saying here is all of these physical things that are happening to
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your body and that requires a skill set that not everybody has.
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That's true.
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To be aware of your body.
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That's true.
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That's very true.
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There are numerous people that we just kind of chuckle looking here in the studio making
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eye contact.
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We know several people that that alone can be very, very difficult.
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So how do you, if you don't have the ability to even have self-awareness, what do you do?
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That's a great question.
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I don't know that I have a full answer for something like that because self-awareness
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is the key to all kinds of healing.
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And if we're talking about using tools that requires growth and you can't have growth
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unless you have an inward reflection of how you behave.
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So I don't know what to say to someone who might not have the awareness.
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I think slowing down enough to just...
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That's what I was going to say.
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Yeah.
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Slow down.
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Learn to slow down.
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Really observe.
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Yeah.
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A lot of learning requires observation.
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What am I doing?
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I think the Bible gives you a reflection of yourself a lot of the times.
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And if you don't ask yourself, how do I fit into this?
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Do I behave this way?
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Is this passage talking about my behavior?
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And a lot of times it is.
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It's meant for you to reflect on.
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And other times it's not.
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It's about a people group or a time in history.
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But that self-awareness is something you can pray for if you don't have it.
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Certainly God is willing to give you that.
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But slowing down and really observing how your body feels.
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Because most people know they feel, I feel hot.
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I feel like my heart is racing.
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Those are indicators.
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It's kind of the...
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I always think of sayings like this as kind of cheesy.
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I love cheesy sayings.
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You're a human being, not a human doing.
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I kind of laugh when I make fun of something that's overused and generalized.
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But it is that be.
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Be something.
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Don't get caught up in the doing.
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Because if you can be present, things slow down and you appreciate things more.
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So when you go for a walk, do you have your cell phone with you?
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If the answer is yes and you're having a hard time, maybe that answer needs to be no.
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So that you can be present on that walk and appreciate God's creation.
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Even if you bring your phone with you to listen to a podcast.
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Or listen to a book on tape.
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Whatever it may be, if you're still...if that's preventing you from being in that moment and
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appreciating what God is doing and what he has done, leave it behind.
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There's so many things to distract us in the modern world.
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So many things can easily distract us.
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Just set the intention to pray for five minutes and see how many distractions come up.
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Oh yeah, oh my gosh.
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My mind will be in 16 different places.
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Oh for sure.
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So I think you're right.
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I think slowing down is a tremendous asset.
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Because then you have time to process, oh my goodness, I am getting a tightness in my
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chest.
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And another is, is patterns one of the tools in the toolbox?
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I know I remember you talking about patterns, but I don't know that a pattern is necessarily
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a tool per se.
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No, but unpacking a pattern is.
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Okay, so let's talk about unpacking the pattern.
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What I really encourage people to do is really start to look at what unhealthy patterns are
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present in your life.
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So when anger comes up, when other emotions like depression or anxiety or stress come
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up, what are the go-to things that you do that you know aren't healthy?
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And maybe they're kind of benign.
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They're not either healthy or unhealthy.
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They're just not what God has for us.
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You have to kind of start looking at those patterns.
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Are you someone that likes to be distracted and you'll sit on the couch and watch Netflix
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for five hours?
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Are you someone that wants to avoid your emotions and you take a nap constantly napping?
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Are you someone who wants to self-soothe with drugs and alcohol or with shopping?
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A lot of people do that.
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There are things that become patterns that are, you know, they just become a part of
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the makeup of how you do things, even though you know they're unhealthy.
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Are you, when you're angry, you immediately scream and criticize or you gossip or you're
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just negative.
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Like those things you take a moment and you start to look at, how do I show up at this?
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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I show up like this a lot.
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And I think you mentioned two things that we at some point need to circle back to.
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One is the pattern of food.
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I think as the church, I never hear the church talk about food being an idol, food being
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a negative pattern.
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We absolutely need to talk about that in some way.
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And the second one was shopping.
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That's another one that can be a negative pattern in your life that people fall back
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on.
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Both of those things can be red flags.
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Yeah.
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And they look benign.
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They're like, well, you know, I'm just going to have a cookie.
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No big deal.
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But when that cookie becomes to self-soothe because you aren't going to God or you aren't
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dealing with your anger appropriately, that becomes an issue.
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An idol is anything you're running to instead of God.
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And God is the one that is supposed to help you process through the anger.
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A cookie can feel really great, you know, for about five, 10 minutes.
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And then you're like, okay, I still need to go to God to put this.
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Wish I hadn't done that five minutes ago.
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But yeah, you know, and Jesus describes himself as the bread of life all the time.
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And he does that for a reason, is he is what sustains us.
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And you know, God is a Trinity, but so are we in the sense that we have mind, body and
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spirit.
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And if you don't have all three of those things healthy and aligned, all of a sudden that's
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like having three muscles, but you're only working out two of them.
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Two will become, you know, a little bit too heavy because you're, you know, you're using
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those muscles too much.
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Well, you had a situation, you were in fitness for many, many, many years.
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And there was something, you were having a physical, literally a physical problem.
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And one of your coworkers turned to you and said, Deb, I think it's because what was that?
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I kept getting neck pain to the point where like every three months, like clockwork, I'd
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pull out my neck and I didn't realize that I was not balancing my training.
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Like I worked my chest a lot, a lot of pushups, a lot of things that were just, you know,
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chest driven.
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And I didn't work my upper back.
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I work my lower back because you know, that it's attached to the booty and you want that
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to look good.
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But the upper back really got neglected and that imbalance created something so drastic.
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Every three months I was like incapacitated where I had to turn my whole body.
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It was silly.
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And then he was like, just start training hard.
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I mean, I see you train your back, but not very often and not very hard, not as hard
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as your chest.
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And so that balance between the two created, you know, a more structural balance for me
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to not keep getting hurt.
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And so instead of having a cookie, you would go to the chiropractor and get that realignment.
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And really what was happening was your body was going, hey, red flag, here's your sign.
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The check engine light is on.
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You should have this checked out.
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And when you did and you did the appropriate adjustments to your workouts, the body started
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to react the way the body should.
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And when you think about some of the major diseases that we have, you go to the doctor
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and they're like, well, that's caused by stress and that's caused by stress.
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And you're just like, wow, like if my stomach consistently hurts, then I have to look at
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it's either a what am I eating or what's my emotional landscape look like, you know,
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because that's my body's way of talking to me.
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And our body does speak and our body has memory.
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And you know, we need to really start looking at that, you know, people that get consistent
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headaches or, you know, what's happening when you get that headache, start tracking that,
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start looking at that because your body, God gives you these physiological responses as
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a gift.
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I often think about and gosh, pastor, oh, he's so good.
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It must have been like, I don't know, like maybe almost 10 years ago, Pastor Doug did
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a sermon about pain as a gift.
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This is Pastor Doug Souter of Calvary Fort Lauderdale.
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Thank you for clarifying that.
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Yes.
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And it was something I had never heard like pain as a gift, but he was talking about like
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the disease of leprosy in the Bible.
293
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Leprosy actually is like your body stops feeling pain.
294
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So you consistently hurt yourself.
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You consistently like, you know, you don't know you're touching a hot stove, that the
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pain itself is a warning and a gift.
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And when you don't have that, you're in grave danger of really hurting yourself.
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And that was just one little snippet of his sermon.
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But I always remembered that like, wow, I never considered how much feeling pain is
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actually a gift and that if we didn't have that, we would have no awareness whatsoever.
301
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And so that's one of my tools is what's going on in my body, especially when I'm angry,
302
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like before I even get angry, I can feel those things.
303
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And again, if you slow down and you start to notice signs, that's when you switch from
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being reactive to proactive.
305
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Yes.
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And that's a huge difference.
307
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Now all of a sudden, instead of spewing and you as my wife getting hit with all that shrapnel,
308
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I can take that out into the garage, get it out out there.
309
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And the last thing you want to do with anger is bottle it up.
310
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So there is getting it out.
311
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You just don't want, again, you don't want to hit people.
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You don't want to lose your testimony because there was some anger going on there.
313
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:56,680
But switching just from the reactive to the proactive is a game changer.
314
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It makes all the world of a difference.
315
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You can behave in ways that you want to show up.
316
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I want to show up more calm and collected.
317
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And I can't do that unless I actually pay attention and I'm proactive by listening to
318
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my body.
319
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:21,760
So you assembled this toolbox through, like you said, all sorts of years of going through
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different classes, counseling, counseling.
321
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And you really kind of built this toolbox over the course of how many years?
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Maybe like seven, eight, seven or eight years.
323
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And so recently everyone that's listening knows that mom's been in the hospital.
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And so all of a sudden, God's got us in a different season and he's applying pressure
325
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in ways that he's never applied pressure to us.
326
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So clearly it's time for us to grow.
327
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Time for us to grow.
328
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And I think one of the, I guess I'll say one of your frustrations has been, oh my goodness,
329
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I have to revisit this toolbox.
330
00:20:09,940 --> 00:20:13,920
But it really shouldn't be a frustration at all.
331
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Because yeah, God's going to apply pressure and you're going to have to revisit some things.
332
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Yeah.
333
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:25,640
And I think not giving myself the grace to realize this is not, I didn't arrive.
334
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I'm on a journey.
335
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I haven't gotten to a destination.
336
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This is a journey.
337
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And these are the tools that help me along the way.
338
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Like to be mad at myself because I'm mad seems really counterproductive.
339
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,440
It does sound a little bit self-defeating.
340
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,640
Well, yeah, for sure.
341
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:51,280
So what were some of the things when mom was in the hospital where you found, let's start
342
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with what was making you angry.
343
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,760
So that would be what's the trigger?
344
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Yeah.
345
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Yeah.
346
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,720
What's the trigger in this particular season?
347
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:12,720
It was feeling, feeling unappreciated, honestly, not by my mother, but just by family members
348
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that weren't seeing the bigger scope of the picture.
349
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And that right there has another layer to it.
350
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If I'm not appreciated, I'm not valued.
351
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And if I'm not valued, I'm not worthy.
352
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And again, that's been worthiness has been something I've fought for for a very long
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time.
354
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,600
I even wrote, you know, Woman of Worth because I wrote it to myself.
355
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I wrote that because I needed to remind myself God finds me valuable.
356
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And so that was underappreciated.
357
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:55,520
Injustice, injustice is a big theme in my story and in my life.
358
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,560
That's the one is your husband that I noticed the most when you were seeing injustice with
359
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maybe the way mom was being treated or just devalue of life.
360
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:14,080
Let's just kind of say I definitely saw you getting frustrated.
361
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,080
Right.
362
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:21,360
And I think some of the injustice and that's the difference between righteous anger and
363
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just, you know, anger that's unwarranted or wrath.
364
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,960
You know, it is righteous anger to see injustice and go, I need to fix.
365
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,200
I need I need to go to God with that because I can't fix it.
366
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:43,520
But injustice is really kind of strikes at our human heart, you know, and this is why
367
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we're so prone to stories of the underdog winning.
368
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:54,120
And we champion that because injustice is something we see in the world all the time
369
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and it just deeply hurts.
370
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,000
And so, yeah, I was seeing some of that and that injustice, you know, if you've been on
371
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:09,120
the receiving end of injustice yourself, it does it triggers that whole cycle of like,
372
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you know, negativity and mistrust of people and disappointment.
373
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:22,240
And so you you got to work through those things in order to resolve some of the anger because
374
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,400
the anger is rooted in deeper things that have happened.
375
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,720
It's just like, wow, I, you know, I'm angry about something 20 years ago.
376
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,160
Didn't even realize it.
377
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,160
You know what I'm saying?
378
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,160
Yeah.
379
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:43,920
And I think you see you've opened up something that I don't think most people, myself included,
380
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,480
I had not processed, which is the difference between anger and wrath.
381
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,120
So big difference.
382
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:56,200
One of the reasons translations of the Bible is important.
383
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,720
You and I are kind of sticklers.
384
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,200
We're we're we love our King James.
385
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,480
Are there other translations that you can turn to?
386
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:05,480
Of course.
387
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,480
Absolutely.
388
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,520
We're not dogmatic about it, but you know what?
389
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,720
Words matter.
390
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,560
Words do matter.
391
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:20,040
And it's one word, depending on what your translation is, they may not distinguish the
392
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,800
difference, they may use the word anger when really it's the word wrath.
393
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:25,800
Right.
394
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:26,800
What is it?
395
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:27,800
James 1 20.
396
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,880
The wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
397
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Lots of versions read the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
398
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,320
Well, that's just, I mean, that would take a new believer and go, well, what?
399
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,240
I can't ever be angry.
400
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,520
Like that is so unrealistic.
401
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,800
I can't do this Christianity thing.
402
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,240
Why even try?
403
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:55,400
So the fact that the word wrath is used in the King James is so, so different.
404
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,680
You know, wrath is.
405
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,680
So what is the difference?
406
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:04,320
Well, between wrath and anger, wrath really produces, gosh, human wrath produces that
407
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:16,440
spiritual warfare where you're fighting the the urge to produce revenge and to hold on
408
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:22,560
to bitterness and to just kind of stew in anger.
409
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:29,160
So it's a heightened level of human anger to the point where now it's become, you know,
410
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:35,200
sinful to the point where you're just like, yeah, you know, when God says you're angry
411
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,080
in your heart, you've already murdered someone.
412
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,560
I don't think it's just anger.
413
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,240
It's the wrath of wanting, you know, wanting someone gone.
414
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,280
Like you're just, you're not worthy of this.
415
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,360
You're just go.
416
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:55,640
Yeah, I think I always refer to like wrath as the unholy cousin of anger.
417
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,640
Now.
418
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,640
Yeah.
419
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,200
And so how do we how do we circle this back to the toolbox?
420
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:10,400
So anger can be anger can be a good thing when you there is a place for it.
421
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:11,400
Right.
422
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:17,920
So for me, I'm a drummer, there's nothing wrong with me taking out some anger on a set
423
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,920
of drums.
424
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:27,280
I go into the garage and, you know, wail on the drums and leave the problems there.
425
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,200
And the whole time I'm praying and I'm meditating, God, this is what I'm angry about.
426
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,080
This is why I'm angry and I can process all of that.
427
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,800
And that that's healthy.
428
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,480
One of the worst things you can do is bottle up anger.
429
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,480
I agree.
430
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,000
I think it grows when you bottle it.
431
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000
And that's when it turns into wrath.
432
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:54,920
Yeah, that that's when when you give the devil a foothold and you go to bed angry.
433
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:01,600
The reason the Bible advises against that is because when you consistently do that,
434
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,360
that anger turns into wrath.
435
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:04,400
For sure.
436
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,960
It does.
437
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,000
And that's where the root of bitterness starts.
438
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,760
Like you just can't let something go.
439
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,480
It's because it's you're stewing in it.
440
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,400
You haven't let it come out in a healthy way.
441
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,160
Or even if it hasn't come out verbally, you can you're not taking it to God and saying,
442
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,760
I don't know what to do with this.
443
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,480
Please help me.
444
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,160
And that that's where stuffing stuff down.
445
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:36,480
I mean, that's that's a bad habit that a lot of people take and they they self soothe.
446
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,000
I mean, that's I think a lot of people that have struggled with addiction struggle with
447
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,640
anger too.
448
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,920
It's because they've used the method of self soothing through alcohol or drugs so they
449
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,960
don't have to feel.
450
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,200
And I don't think you can ever truly heal until you're willing to feel the depth of
451
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,200
your own pain.
452
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:57,200
How?
453
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,840
How can you heal if you just keep hiding from it and you keep running from anger or the
454
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:08,480
injustice or, you know, feeling unworthy and you run from that?
455
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,160
Where are you going to go with that?
456
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:16,840
It winds up being pushed down and then it'll bubble up in an instant and an instant.
457
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,760
So it's important in so many ways.
458
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:30,200
And in your your Devo, you kind of title, I think the tool is what lies beneath.
459
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:37,240
And you talk about how you use journaling as a way to identify all that stuff that was
460
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,640
going on under the surface.
461
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,920
So it wouldn't spew out and so on and so forth.
462
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,600
For me, it was the drum.
463
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:43,600
It really was.
464
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,400
The drum was my journal and I was sitting there drumming to God.
465
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:54,480
I was writing to him in a sense, using that and all of my emotion, whether it was positive
466
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,280
emotion, joy or if I was angry, didn't matter.
467
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,280
But all of that went into the drum.
468
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,640
And that was me processing, you know, all of those feelings.
469
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,480
So you use journaling.
470
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,760
I've seen you journal or you're a writer.
471
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,760
That's what you do.
472
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,480
So that's what helped you process anger, right?
473
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,480
Oh, gosh.
474
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,480
Yeah.
475
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,440
I've never used that without writing.
476
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,560
God has used that in a miraculous way in my life.
477
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:29,560
And it's always been one of those toolboxes where you unpack the pattern by going, okay,
478
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,680
this is how I behave.
479
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,480
These are the destructive patterns.
480
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,880
What lies beneath and then what do I do instead?
481
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,960
It's kind of like when you're giving up.
482
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,120
I was a smoker for many, many years before I came to know the Lord and there had to be
483
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:52,360
a replacement for the addiction so that I could have something that filled that space.
484
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:58,880
And so, you know, after dinner that anyone that's been a smoker or is currently a smoker,
485
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,320
the after dinner cigarettes pretty hard to give up because it's a trigger.
486
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,760
It's like, oh, it's I've had a nice meal.
487
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,760
I want to relax.
488
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,760
I want to finish my meal with a cigarette.
489
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:14,120
Well, if you don't replace that with something, there's this like angst that's there.
490
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:20,800
And so for me, it was, you know, sometimes I needed to replace it with prayer, you know,
491
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,120
or I would need to listen to music and worship.
492
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,740
I used to name I used to name my playlist because music can be very, very soothing.
493
00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:35,200
So sometimes I'd be like, okay, this is my playlist when I'm angry, what am I going to
494
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,200
call it?
495
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,320
And people are straight up crazy.
496
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,080
So it label people are straight up crazy.
497
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,760
So anytime I knew I was like irritated by people, I'd play the list and it would help
498
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:45,760
me calm down.
499
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:52,760
Or, you know, if I was like really ticked off, I would name it like keeping my sanity,
500
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,200
something silly, you know, because that would always make me kind of laugh.
501
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,080
You know, but not everyone's sarcastic.
502
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,800
So maybe it's like soothe my soul savior, something that like you can label and go,
503
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,920
okay, you know, I'd play music.
504
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:13,760
And that was my replacement to the unhealthy pattern that I had journaled with.
505
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:20,520
You know, if I'm not going to get angry, what do I need to say to myself that would go in
506
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,320
the journal?
507
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,920
You know, and sometimes it was a matter of like, okay, this this level of anger is is
508
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,840
okay, because it reflects injustice.
509
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,360
And that upsets the heart of God.
510
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,960
But going further in that anger does not produce God's righteousness.
511
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:43,720
So me escalating my anger doesn't prove that I'm any more hurt.
512
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,600
And that kind of stuff when in the journal, it's like, okay, kind of almost logically
513
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,640
walking it through.
514
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,520
Does this reaction warrant what I'm feeling?
515
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,920
And most of the time, I mean, let's be honest, most of the time we overreact.
516
00:31:58,920 --> 00:31:59,920
Right?
517
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:08,680
The things that cause us anxiety, even if the worst possible scenario came true, usually
518
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:17,200
the amount of anxiety we give to that is nowhere near what it deserved, especially for me.
519
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,240
I'm a person that, you know, I'm an introvert.
520
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:27,360
So going out and hanging out with a bunch of people, just that alone can give me anxiety.
521
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,800
And then it's never as bad as is what I make it up to be.
522
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,120
So yeah, that that we can definitely overreact.
523
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:45,480
And what's interesting, you know, mom's been diagnosed with, you know, very early onset
524
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,080
dementia.
525
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:53,460
And you know, as we've been talking with the doctors, it's incredible the difference music
526
00:32:53,460 --> 00:32:57,200
can make in a person's life.
527
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,680
And you know, kind of anger can kick in.
528
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Anger is a side effect of dementia.
529
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,440
Yes.
530
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,520
And one of one of the things the doctors recommend you do is play more music.
531
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,000
And I've seen a miraculous like turnaround.
532
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:19,080
She could be really ticked off and you put on like Frank Sinatra and she's dancing like
533
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,080
within moments.
534
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,080
Yeah.
535
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,080
Yeah.
536
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,080
It's wild to watch.
537
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:31,160
It's very, very crazy, but but even just something like that, turning on some worship music can
538
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,120
absolutely be an amazing thing.
539
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,120
Yeah.
540
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,400
But it's and that's why I think drumming helps me.
541
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,400
We need to get you back in there and drum.
542
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,840
Hopefully we got construction going on the house the next couple of days.
543
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,680
And I am praying that after that is over that I can get back in there and get drumming again.
544
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,680
Oh my goodness.
545
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:51,680
Yes.
546
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,080
I'm a music therapist.
547
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,800
But yeah, music is is really quite quite therapeutic.
548
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:00,800
Yeah.
549
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,640
I mean, think about music throughout the Bible.
550
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,640
I mean, David was a psalmist and played to the Lord.
551
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,520
When Saul was conflicted or upset, he would call for the harpist.
552
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:18,620
He'd call for David to come in to, you know, so many times I think I've even mentioned
553
00:34:18,620 --> 00:34:21,300
it on the podcast.
554
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:28,480
When you're really struggling with something, some of the areas, it's so easy to have to
555
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:36,160
just kind of spout off scripture for people to get help them get past something, to give
556
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,000
someone to hope for something.
557
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:43,800
But what King David did that was so amazing was the lament Psalms.
558
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,400
It's so critically important that when he is sitting there and he's just filled with
559
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,320
so much emotion and he's being so raw and so honest with God, there's so much beauty
560
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,440
in that.
561
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:02,000
And people, if you don't go to the Psalms when you're having a hard time with something,
562
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,360
whatever it is, go start reading and flipping through.
563
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,400
Just do a Google search on the lament Psalms.
564
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,880
It's about 25 percent, I think, of the Psalms or lament Psalms.
565
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:20,200
But there's something to be said about you're struggling with something.
566
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:26,320
Go listen to music, go worship, and go wrestle with God about that.
567
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,100
Yeah, and it's a perfect example of what we said.
568
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:31,240
David's not bottling anything up.
569
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:32,900
He's not stuffing it down.
570
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,400
He's bringing it to the Lord.
571
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,720
He's crying out.
572
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:43,520
He's expressing his anger in his circumstances to a holy God who's willing to listen.
573
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,160
And God can do so much.
574
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:51,240
If you just come to Him with your honesty, He can do so much with that.
575
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,840
He can do so much because now He can talk directly with you.
576
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:04,720
And there's a direct correlation with where you're off base and He can address that.
577
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:14,640
Whenever I have anxiety, I'm always at fault.
578
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,280
There were instances where I had to go to God and go, God, I am frustrated with you,
579
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,280
which means something's wrong with me.
580
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,520
Help me find where I'm askew.
581
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,960
I should not be frustrated with you.
582
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:36,320
You have proven over and over and over again that you're a good, good Father.
583
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:44,500
And I'm doing my daily devotional and I'm setting my reading down and I'm going, why
584
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:47,520
am I frustrated with you, God?
585
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,440
After today's Devo, I am frustrated.
586
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,640
You're not wrong, God.
587
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:59,100
That just is a big, another check engine light has just gone on going, why am I frustrated
588
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:00,100
with God?
589
00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:05,560
It's because my perception or my definition, something is askew.
590
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:12,560
What He's trying to do in my life, I am misinterpreting what He's trying to do.
591
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:23,200
And yeah, if you can go to God in honesty, so get that anger out and journal that anger
592
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,480
out, drum that anger out, whatever it is, but get that out of you.
593
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,840
It needs to come up, up and out some way, somehow.
594
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:38,080
And a part of the thing I see you doing recently is going back to men in your life who you
595
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:46,040
hold in very high esteem that are very godly, that are able to speak life into you and able
596
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,200
to give you direction in some of your blind spots.
597
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,840
And I think that's an incredible toolbox.
598
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,480
It's an incredible tool to utilize the people you love and respect and seek counsel.
599
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,360
I mean, that's an anger management toolbox for sure.
600
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:13,960
Yeah, there's definitely different men and you, so not isolated to men, but definitely
601
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:19,640
being a man, there's things about leading a household spiritually and things like that
602
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,280
where I definitely favor advice of men just because I can relate on a different level
603
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:31,200
where you're definitely one of those tremendous tools that's in that toolbox.
604
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,680
But that's something you have to fight for in your life.
605
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:43,200
If you do not have men and women, and it's not a lot, I would count including you four
606
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,200
people.
607
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,200
Yeah.
608
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,160
My father, our mentor, the guy that married us, I have a buddy that's out in Colorado
609
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,520
and you, those are head and shoulders, my four.
610
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,520
There's other people that I can go to for sure.
611
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,840
But most of the time, those are my four tools.
612
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,440
One's a hammer, one's a saw, one's a Phillips, and one's a flathead.
613
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,440
So that's going to cover-
614
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:09,440
Which one of mine?
615
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,600
I'm not going to answer that.
616
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,800
Those four tools are the most commonly used tools, but there's other things.
617
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:17,800
Right.
618
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:22,400
I don't know if I would say I've been lucky, I've been blessed.
619
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,200
Definitely blessed.
620
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,200
Yeah.
621
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,960
And I definitely have the radar up in my life to go, who are these people?
622
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,400
Oh, and actually a good friend of mine in Fort Lauderdale that taught me how to drum,
623
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,360
he's another one that I really admire a lot.
624
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,920
And even his wife.
625
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,680
They're not Christians.
626
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:51,000
So I got to be careful what I go to them with because they see things through a different
627
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,640
worldview, but I really respect who they are.
628
00:39:54,640 --> 00:40:00,840
And that's something that the only thing I would really ever give myself credit for,
629
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,400
because I mess a lot of stuff up, is trying to surround myself with the right people.
630
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,960
Because all of those people that are on my list, the reason they're on that list has
631
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,080
nothing to do with money or this status or this.
632
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,160
It is there as an attribute that they have that I want.
633
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,160
Amen.
634
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,200
And the more I can hang out with them, the more I'm hoping that rubs off with me.
635
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,200
Amen.
636
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,520
And so that is absolutely something worth fighting for.
637
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,560
That's why you have accountability partners at things, your AAs, your Celebrate Recovery,
638
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,000
you have to have sponsors, you have to have this, that, and the other.
639
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,320
That's part of why they have that there.
640
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,760
But these people that I've been lucky enough blessed with, my relationship with them goes
641
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,200
so much deeper than just being a sponsor in my life.
642
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,200
These people truly want what's best for me.
643
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,320
And I think it's sad because mentorship.
644
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,240
I don't see a lot of it anymore.
645
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:00,840
Not in the Christian church.
646
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:09,080
It is so strange because Ricky that was on this show, you know, in talking with her,
647
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:14,920
we've had kind of the same types of discussions where, you know, Christianity for one reason
648
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:22,920
or another, we just don't have just that mentorship the same way.
649
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:29,800
Even you look at something like Jehovah's Witnesses, they, the minute you, I guess I'll
650
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,360
say convert to becoming a Jehovah's Witness, they assign to you a mentor.
651
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:42,880
And that mentor does life with you and teaches you what they know.
652
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:49,680
And in Christianity, that can be a very difficult thing to find, but that is a hill worth dying
653
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,880
on for sure.
654
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,200
Be in constant hunt of that.
655
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,200
Right.
656
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:00,720
And I think accountability people and support systems actually are different too.
657
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:02,960
And they're both valuable.
658
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:08,840
Maybe people kind of like show up and go, Hey, hey, hey, hold on.
659
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,320
Let's redirect and support people do that.
660
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:19,660
But they also walk alongside you and they, they hold you up when you, you just like Moses,
661
00:42:19,660 --> 00:42:22,720
you know, he just doesn't want to lift the rod anymore.
662
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:29,320
And he has Aaron and Aaron holds up his arms and it's, it's more than just accountability.
663
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,520
It's people who will do life in the good and in the bad.
664
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,200
And it's a blessing to have.
665
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:37,440
And they're rare.
666
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:38,440
They are.
667
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,000
And you have to be teachable too.
668
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,000
I was on with our mentor today, Pastor Bill.
669
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,920
And when we were kind of done talking through everything today, I said, you know, Pastor
670
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:57,840
Bill, I really got to thank you that you're willing to not pull punches with me.
671
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:03,560
You know, when, when you see something that I'm doing wrong at perspective that I have
672
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:09,240
or I'm getting, getting lazy or this, that you have no problem going, Hey Mike, I love
673
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,480
you.
674
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:11,880
This is what I see.
675
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:12,880
Yeah.
676
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:20,960
And, and it's one thing you can also have that and not be open to that correction.
677
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,980
You know, and so I had to thank Pastor Bill for being there and being like, Hey Bill,
678
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:30,440
thank you so much for jumping on the phone and slapping me around a little bit and getting
679
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,440
me back in line.
680
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:39,160
And it was humbling for him to say, Hey, thank you for, for taking, taking what I'm dishing
681
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,000
out because so many people, you know, run from correction.
682
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:51,040
So you know, it's definitely a two way street, but that toolbox of just having people in
683
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,240
your life that make you better.
684
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:56,240
For sure.
685
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,360
And so many times in this world, we look at make you better.
686
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,160
They're like-minded people and that can be dangerous.
687
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,440
You know, birds of a feather flock together.
688
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:13,920
So don't find an accountability partner for your anger and use someone else that's angry.
689
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,000
Yeah, that's a good point.
690
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:22,160
You know, you don't want people to, but, but wait, I mean, when you think about it, if
691
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,840
someone's already like walked through that journey, they can relate to you.
692
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:27,840
Like if I'm going to mentor somebody-
693
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:28,840
Oh, I'm not saying on the other side.
694
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:29,840
Okay.
695
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,840
I'm not saying on the other side.
696
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:31,840
Yeah.
697
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,440
If they were angry and they're no longer angry, that's a totally different story.
698
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,800
I mean, someone that's literally actively struggling with it is probably not, I mean,
699
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,040
there's, there's a place for that person.
700
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,000
And if that's what you have, absolutely go for it.
701
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,840
But I would say it's worth fighting for to find that person that has gone through it
702
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,400
and knows how to get through to the other side.
703
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,400
Right.
704
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,960
That's because what we try and do on this podcast, I think you even said at the beginning
705
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:04,140
of the show is we're here to shorten the learning curve.
706
00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:10,040
Someone that's been through it has, you know, will tell you, hey, don't fall for this.
707
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,960
Don't get so complacent here, so on and so forth.
708
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,960
But yeah, so blessed.
709
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,300
That's one of the beautiful things about working inside the church is you just have access
710
00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:24,400
to so many of those resources.
711
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,520
And if you don't work for the church, I knew Pastor Bill and he had this access to my life
712
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,440
long before I worked for Calvary.
713
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:31,440
That's true.
714
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,120
So, you know, don't give up.
715
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:44,560
That is so, the men and women in my life that I respect that have spoken into my life, I
716
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,960
can't imagine where I would be without them.
717
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:52,920
Yeah, it reminds me of the verse, faithful are the wounds of a friend.
718
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:58,960
Like you have to have friends that are willing to tell you hard truths, willing to, you know,
719
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:04,560
like you said to Bill, slap you around a little bit in the most loving way, like, hey, this
720
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,160
is what I see and you're not seeing it.
721
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:13,560
And those are the kind of people that really help your spiritual growth.
722
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,880
And you get to be that for someone else and they get to be it for you.
723
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,400
And it's, it's what community really looks like.
724
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:28,080
I mean, think about when, you know, Paul confronts Peter about, you know, not wanting to eat
725
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,080
with Gentiles.
726
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:35,400
Like he, he didn't hold back any punches and Peter was willing to take that correction.
727
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:42,280
And Peter took it and repented and made a change.
728
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,600
And Paul was faithful to tell him the hard thing.
729
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,720
And that's what we need.
730
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,360
We need that kind of relationship with people.
731
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:57,240
And that's where it's so dangerous to say you do you or your truth that is so counterproductive.
732
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:58,400
It is, it is.
733
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,000
It's very hindering to growth.
734
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,000
Oh my gosh.
735
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,680
If you're angry and you turn to me and I go, you do you.
736
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,560
Yeah, there is no love in that.
737
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,240
No, it's dismissive actually.
738
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:15,240
And it's me avoiding a confrontation with you and it's you avoiding the confrontation
739
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:16,240
within you.
740
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:17,240
Yeah.
741
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:21,240
It's just issues upon issues, upon issues.
742
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:31,200
So don't find friends that, that say you do you that that's or your truth or this, people
743
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,960
that co-sign your, your nonsense.
744
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,560
Those are the people you want to get like far away from.
745
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:42,040
But that can be so tricky that truly it's easy for us to.
746
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,040
Well it looks like support.
747
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,840
Oh, you know, like when you're angry and you go to someone and they're like, yeah, you
748
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,880
have a right to be angry.
749
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:54,440
And maybe, maybe you do, but you're trying to get anger up and out and productive and
750
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,280
they are just giving you the fuel for the fire.
751
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,480
And that, you know, that's dangerous.
752
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,160
And what, but what's toxic too potentially is getting anger out can in the moment feel
753
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:06,160
good.
754
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,840
Because it's so bottled up inside of you.
755
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:14,800
And again, if you have the wrong person in place, they can speak to and justify that
756
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,480
saying, no, that wouldn't, they, they, they crossed you and you had every right to get
757
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,480
it.
758
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:27,280
Well, even if they did cross you, there's other ways to deal with this, which is a great
759
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,040
segue to, to one of the tools.
760
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,200
I think it's the last tool you talk about, which is discovering new ways to release your
761
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:39,000
anger, which I started drumming.
762
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,200
I'm so bad at dates.
763
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:48,560
Let's just say it was 20, it's got to be probably close to 15 years ago now.
764
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:53,160
So prior to that, I didn't have that in my life.
765
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,560
And so I didn't cope with it well.
766
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:04,320
And that became a new way for me to release that anger because I could take out whatever
767
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,000
frustrations on that drum.
768
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:12,360
I wanted to, if I needed to break a drumstick, if I needed to, who cares at the end of the
769
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,360
day, who cares?
770
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,400
You know, no harm, no foul unless you're a neighbor, uh, you know, and you didn't want
771
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,280
to, didn't want to hear that.
772
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:26,960
But you know, you, you do have to discover new ways of potentially releasing that anger.
773
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:27,960
Yeah.
774
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,720
It's important to be released, you know, and for a lot of people it's physical activity
775
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:33,480
and that's a really healthy way.
776
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,000
Like I would go work out or I'd go swim.
777
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:41,720
I never was a runner, but I know lots of people like that, but just, yeah.
778
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:47,000
I think we've been married four years now and I think there's been maybe half a dozen
779
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,680
times in the four years that we've been married where you'll walk in the house and you just
780
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:57,200
have like a look and a vibe going on and I just kind of point over to the garage because
781
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,360
I know in the garage is the punching bag.
782
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:00,360
Yes.
783
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,040
And I just kind of go, Deb, I have no problem sitting and talking and having a conversation
784
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,480
with you, but not until you go out there and you wail on that punching bag.
785
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:10,480
And it's so helpful.
786
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:11,480
I mean.
787
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,480
And you do come in different.
788
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:13,480
Yeah.
789
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:18,920
Even if it's, even if you go out there for all of five or 10 minutes and you just beat
790
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:26,600
the crap out of that punching bag, you come in and there is a different, a different posture
791
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:27,600
to you.
792
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:28,600
Yeah.
793
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:33,440
So what, what other, you know, besides journaling, like you love singing.
794
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:34,440
I do.
795
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,120
Has singing become a way for you to get out anger?
796
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,080
Not so much.
797
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,080
No.
798
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,080
No.
799
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,080
That might be a good way.
800
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,880
I haven't really considered that in the scope of anger.
801
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:53,920
I know that when I'm sad, I sing or when I feel lonely or distant from God and I need
802
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,320
to draw near to him, I sing, but I've never considered doing it in the midst of anger.
803
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,040
Oh, there's nothing like Blair and some speed metal.
804
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,840
Oh, I think that kind of gets me more ramped up, man.
805
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,920
I want to release anger, not get more angry.
806
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:10,920
Oh my goodness.
807
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:11,920
Too funny.
808
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:12,920
Okay.
809
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,520
So, so journaling helps for me.
810
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,000
Drumming helped.
811
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,760
Punching bag helped you.
812
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,160
What else helped you over the years?
813
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:27,200
Sometimes just taking a walk, just something as simple as taking a walk, removing myself
814
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:36,440
from the environment and just quieting myself because, you know, I have a tendency and anger
815
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,980
to be pretty vocal and loud and that can get dangerous.
816
00:51:39,980 --> 00:51:44,840
You can say things you cannot take back, but if you leave the situation, it's like kind
817
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,880
of having that time out.
818
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,600
Like time outs are not just good for little kids.
819
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,360
Time outs are really important.
820
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:58,320
Like when I was in the depth of my deepest anger and I was going through some of these
821
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:06,720
programs, there were things where in my family of origin, things would keep coming up and
822
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,880
it was just like, wow, this is unacceptable.
823
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,160
And there were times I had to remove myself.
824
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:17,240
We did a family dinner every Thursday night for ever and in a day.
825
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:25,880
And as I'm processing through some grief and anger and trauma, going to that family dinner,
826
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,320
there were times where I had to take a time out, you know, even if it meant walking around
827
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,480
the apartment complex and then coming back in.
828
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,480
Like I don't have to explain to you.
829
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,640
I don't owe you an explanation other than I need to excuse myself.
830
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,080
I don't have to say I'm angry or you triggered me.
831
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:49,800
I mean, I could once I process it, but I need to take a few minutes just to walk around
832
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,360
the parking lot.
833
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:56,920
And that time out, that physical walk would produce so much more calm in me because then
834
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:01,720
I cannot let my mouth say something that I can't take back.
835
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:06,600
And you have to be careful when you do that too, because other people can wind you up
836
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,160
and you can wind yourself up.
837
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,440
There's so many times we're being caught in my own head.
838
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,040
I've made things worse.
839
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,040
Yes.
840
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:21,200
So when you step away, you also have to be very conscious about what you're then going
841
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,680
to say to yourself.
842
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:23,680
True.
843
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:24,680
You can stew in it.
844
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:29,400
And as you're taking this walk or you can bring it to God and come in and just spew
845
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,800
over everyone and that walk, you're preparing something to say in your walk.
846
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,000
No, that's the wrong posture for sure.
847
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Yeah.
848
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,480
So it's not just stepping away.
849
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:46,160
You're using that stepping away as a conscious effort to go, how do I?
850
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,120
And I think it's the acknowledgement.
851
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,880
I am angry.
852
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:56,920
For the longest time, it was, I'm not hurt.
853
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:57,920
I'm fine.
854
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:58,920
That was the motto.
855
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,960
I'm not capable of vulnerability.
856
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:01,960
Yeah.
857
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,400
I wasn't allowed to feel that.
858
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:04,980
So it was like, I'm fine.
859
00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:10,400
So even in the walk, it's the acknowledgement, I am angry, I have figured out what my trigger
860
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:11,920
is.
861
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,360
I will be fine.
862
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:14,720
I will be fine.
863
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:15,720
Yeah.
864
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:17,320
I just need to process.
865
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,920
I need to step away and I need to process.
866
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:25,960
And I think, yeah, even in the last episode, maybe it's two episodes ago, that whole conversation
867
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:32,240
around arresting and replacing, that is a discipline that you will never master.
868
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:33,640
You will always need it.
869
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:34,640
Yeah.
870
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,840
And that's the art of taking a lie and replacing it with the truth, replacing it with the word
871
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,120
of God.
872
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:46,720
In case somebody hadn't heard that episode, we talked pretty extensively about that.
873
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:47,720
Yeah.
874
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:52,620
But it's, that's one of those things that you can absolutely feel like a hypocrite because
875
00:54:52,620 --> 00:54:55,600
you go, I'm so tired of arresting and replacing.
876
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,200
Oh yeah.
877
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:03,800
You know, one of my coworkers at Calvary, we were having a conversation that was just
878
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,560
filled with irony because there's so many different reasons.
879
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:12,840
And, you know, I was telling him, I said, you know, I can feel like a hypocrite because
880
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:19,080
we sit on a podcast or, I mean, I work at a church and I'm sitting there and I struggle
881
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,080
with anger.
882
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:25,000
And he goes, oh yeah, you think I write for the church and I write Devo's.
883
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,800
And he's like, so many times I'll mess up.
884
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,720
And then I go to Calvary's Devo page and it's my Devo on that subject.
885
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,400
And he's like, you can serve Humble Pie.
886
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:35,400
I can relate to that.
887
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:36,560
Oh yeah, I can relate to that.
888
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:42,040
So you know, these things that we're talking about, you know, the anger toolbox and arresting
889
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,040
and replacing, you know, they just, they are just that.
890
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,040
They're tools.
891
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,820
You never stop using a hammer.
892
00:55:48,820 --> 00:55:52,440
You never stop using a screwdriver.
893
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,760
Whenever there's a screw, if you start to use a hammer, it doesn't work.
894
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:56,760
You're right.
895
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:03,920
So tools, that's why you have a toolbox is because when something is broken and it needs
896
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:09,840
to get fixed, you walk out and you grab that same toolbox that you've always had and those
897
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:16,120
tools hopefully will still be in there, but you have to start, you have to start filling
898
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,120
it.
899
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:23,160
So filling it with the things that we talked about today of the right people and journaling
900
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:28,640
and getting it out that all of these things are in that toolbox.
901
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:29,640
Yeah.
902
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,760
And you're never, like you said, you're not finished with the toolbox.
903
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:33,760
No.
904
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,360
But you're always going to be under construction until you get to the other side, until you
905
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:39,360
get to heaven.
906
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,400
So God is always going to be working on you and you're always going to need to co-labor
907
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,440
with God to work on yourself.
908
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:46,520
Yep.
909
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:53,760
So hopefully we did diligence, good diligence, due diligence today on the toolbox.
910
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,160
You think there's anything we left out?
911
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,200
I'm trying to think back of all the things we talked about ahead of time, but I think...
912
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:05,160
I mean, there's always counsel, like not just friends, but like an actual professional counselor.
913
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:06,160
Yeah.
914
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:14,320
Never be afraid to take that step of seeking out an unbiased person that...
915
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,520
Shares your worldview.
916
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,720
That's important too, especially as a Christian.
917
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,320
I don't go to non-Christian counselors.
918
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:22,320
No.
919
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:23,800
It doesn't work very well.
920
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,040
No, it doesn't.
921
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,720
So that's one of those areas.
922
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,120
Be very careful.
923
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:29,120
Yeah.
924
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:35,240
And if you do make sure whatever advice is given to you in direction is absolutely you
925
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,640
take it and you filter it through scripture.
926
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:38,640
Yes.
927
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:39,640
Amen.
928
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:45,160
And honestly, the same thing for advice from friends and so on and so forth.
929
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:50,040
Anything that is told to me by someone like you or someone like my father, all of it gets
930
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,600
put through the filter of scripture.
931
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:58,880
But especially if you're turning to advice from a secular world, what would Jesus say
932
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:04,120
about what was told to me is the very first thing you have to ask.
933
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,800
So but yeah, counseling can be an amazing, amazing thing.
934
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,840
Oh, it's been a lifeline for me.
935
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:10,840
Great exercises.
936
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,640
They can have great exercises that you can do.
937
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:14,640
Yeah.
938
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,720
And another thing, there are counselors that will just listen and sometimes that's really
939
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:19,720
needed.
940
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:25,600
But if you're only going to a counselor that listens and doesn't give you practical application,
941
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,120
it gets old real quick.
942
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,400
Like I don't want to pay you to listen to me talk.
943
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,160
I can just sit in my closet and talk to God.
944
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,640
Like I need I need something tangible to walk away from.
945
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,120
And I always set that relationship with a counselor right from the get go.
946
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,240
Like I am looking for practical tools.
947
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,920
I'm grateful that you're going to listen, but I'm action or I'm action oriented.
948
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,040
Like give me something to do.
949
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,760
So that's important.
950
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,880
Yeah, absolutely important to have the balance of both of those.
951
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:56,880
Yeah.
952
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:57,880
Yeah.
953
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,440
So those are great tools.
954
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:00,440
Yeah.
955
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,720
You know, so I think, you know, hopefully this has been helpful for everyone out there
956
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,880
as we've kind of talked through some of this.
957
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:13,200
I have no doubt we will circle back to some of these tools that are in the toolbox because
958
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:19,120
when God opens doors and when God closes doors, there are all sorts of emotions that come
959
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,560
along with with those open and closed doors.
960
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,560
There can be joy, there can be anger, there can be all sorts of things.
961
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,080
So hopefully these tools in the toolbox were helpful to you guys.
962
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,680
Again, I have no doubt we'll circle back to it.
963
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:36,040
But yeah, another episode in the books.
964
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:37,240
There we go.
965
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:38,240
Another one in the book.
966
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,160
So thank you guys so much for joining us.
967
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:42,160
We love you.
968
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:48,040
We appreciate your support and we will see you guys in the next episode of detours.
969
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,040
Thank you so much.
970
00:59:49,040 --> 01:00:06,760
Bye guys.