TJ Monahan: This is Design Happy, the podcast where we talk about the human side of home design remodeling and new construction. I'm TJ.
Katie Cashin: And I'm Katie and today we're welcoming Realtor Jeff Wu to the podcast to bring some expert advice to anyone who likes the idea of downsizing but doesn't actually know what that means or how to do it. Welcome Jeff.
Jeff Wu: Thank you, thank you, so happy to be here.
Katie Cashin: We are happy to have you.
TJ Monahan: We're happy to... ⁓ you beat me to it. You...
Katie Cashin: We're happy to have you. The two of you, we were sort of holding off of this in our pre-recording banter, but together, can you collaboratively put together how you met, how you got to know each other, go?
TJ Monahan: in unison.
Jeff Wu: I was just saying, I think I'm really fascinated by two things. It's number one, the name of the company, ⁓ Design Happy. I mean, that is really cool. ⁓ Right now I'm addicted to identity and values and really hopefully attracting great people that you want to work with. And also that giving like a great experience and impacting the life and the future.
TJ Monahan: Yeah.
Jeff Wu: So that when I heard about the name of the company, Design Happy, I thought that was really cool. And then secondly, think, you know, TJ has a cool just ethos and vibe and he doesn't seem stressed and he wants to leave his clients and his friends and everybody in a better place. And I like that. I wanted to be connected with that.
TJ Monahan: Good, you heard it here first, never stressed. No stress. ⁓ yep, that's, you know what? That's what people have told me my whole life. That TJ, he's just always cool. ⁓
Katie Cashin: Never stressed. Always cool. ⁓ I mean, mean, reference, reference the haircut in the book. TJ, what do you say?
TJ Monahan: ⁓ yeah, yeah, that's right. ⁓ So yeah, so officially, officially, Jeff and I officially met at a network meeting networking. I got invited to the chapter that he was in and it's it was an in person meeting and people kind of stand up and ⁓ talk about their business and do an introduction. And Jeff got up and ran, no joke, ran to the front of the room. to bring some energy to it and I was like what the heck just happened? We weren't friends yet, I was just like I'm not sure if this guy is nuts, if it's legitimate, if this is him or if he's putting on a shtick and then we got to talking and I was like this is just like the kind of high energy, really good kind of bringing everybody up. ⁓ kind of person that Jeff is. So we met there and then I've gone back to that networking group a couple of times and sure enough, every time, boom, run to the front of the room. ⁓ It's early. It's an early meeting. So most people there are like, know, I'm still waking up and Jeff is there making sure everyone's getting their head straight, running to the front of the room, be like, let's get started. We're going to do it. ⁓ And I just, I really appreciate that. Like that's the kind of energy I want to in my life too. So ⁓ it was great. And then we became friends.
Katie Cashin: Very cool, very cool. Lovely. That makes so much sense to me as someone who knows you TJ and is just meeting you Jeff. It clicks and connects. Jeff, can you tell our dear, dear wonderful audience a bit about your work, what you do?
Jeff Wu: Yeah, my pleasure. ⁓ So residential real estate agent, licensed Virginia, Maryland and DC. And ⁓ a huge ⁓ component of what we do is really ⁓ education. And ⁓ we have different pillars in our business and a lot of them are tied back to education. I actually get paid to teach classes to other realtors across the country and
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Wu: That's really neat because it fills my bucket. I can share mistakes I've made and I can empower and make them better. And yet coincidentally, a third of our business comes from agent referrals from these agents who have either taken my classes or I've been connected to across the country. And then another third of our business is ⁓ seniors, estate and downsizing. And we actually do free talks about aging in place, about downsizing and about dealing with situations and circumstances that only typically an older adult or somebody who's been in their home 40, 50 years would encounter.
Katie Cashin: That sounds very needed, and I'm wondering if that's something that, and kind of rare, is that something that a lot of realtors talk about or educate on? ⁓ Again, I sort of stand in as the proxy for our audience here. So pretend I know nothing ⁓ or less than. I'm not a professional working in this field, let's pretend. Yeah, when it comes to downsizing, is that something that a lot of... agents were giving attention and educating folks on.
Jeff Wu: So it's becoming a little bit more en vogue, but it really is something that takes a longer commitment and a higher level of awareness. ⁓ I think in the pre-show, we talked jokingly about a lot of the hats we wear. Well, when we're in real estate, we are almost always tied into somebody's life event. And it could be they're having a baby, they need more space. It could be they're getting married.
Katie Cashin: Mm.
Jeff Wu: It could be there's a divorce or in a downsizing situation, you know, there's so much emotion there. Maybe a loved one or a spouse has passed away. Maybe there's been a health event and they can no longer use the stairs. You know, there's a lot of things going on. So we have all those hats we have to wear and it takes a commitment. And then some of the people I've been talking to with downsizing to, they say, ⁓ I'm downsizing. And we say, well, when, and they say, in five years. And so, yes, it's becoming more in vogue, but it's not the slam dunk that a lot of business people are looking for. So it really does take a commitment. And the other piece, too, is ⁓ a lot of these people are making the move based on their need or their desire, not on the interest rates and not on any particular other thing. So that's
Katie Cashin: you
Jeff Wu: a big part of it is having a commitment to love and be compassionate to this population of people, and then also being patient. So that's where I love that education piece we can pour into them, and hopefully they remember us when their actual need arises.
Katie Cashin: Mmm. Yeah, I'm so... You're smiling TJ.
TJ Monahan: Well, I'm smiling because that look Jeff and I get along because we're we're we're doing similar things in different industries and I Katie obviously knows how much time we spend educating people. That's the reason we have this podcast. Like we're not doing the podcast to, we're still waiting for, ⁓ Sylvia is just really, ⁓ Jeff, we have a fake producer named Sylvia. She doesn't really exist, but she's really not, she's not pulling her weight here, ⁓ finding us a sponsor for this podcast. But ⁓ it takes a special kind of person to,
Katie Cashin: you She's real in our hearts. you
TJ Monahan: value the education piece of it, especially in real estate where you see so much of it on TV, you read about it, there's so many realtors to choose to ⁓ take an empathetic view on the process and invest your time educating people when the actual monetary return might not come for five years. ⁓ you're doing something really good in the world.
Katie Cashin: And also needed, I would argue, for anyone who does have ⁓ seniors or someone recently in my life who's like, I call myself elite. I'm elite, I'm not a senior. ⁓ Seniors are elites in their life. Older adults who are lucky enough and have the gift of having older adults in their life. You see all of the market areas where they are just not considered and they're just or not the resources that are needed. And this feels like something I ⁓ kind of embarrassed that I didn't even think about until we were planning for this episode and how ⁓ great this is, but so, so, so needed, such a needed resource. Yeah.
Jeff Wu: Two data points real quick is number one, because of the baby boomers, 10,000 people turn 65 every day. and I mean, in scheme of the country, 10,000 is not a lot, but it is a lot. And the other thing too, in the past, the population kind of visually, it used to look like a pyramid. So the most amount of people were the younger people. And then as you aged, there were less people at the top of the pyramid. Well,
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Wu: I don't know if it's everybody's eating more broccoli or they just are driving better because we've got self-driving cars. But now it's like a rectangle or a column. And there are almost as many older people as there are younger people. And maybe it's also too, maybe people are having less babies. I don't know. I'm a weirdo. have four kids, but now the average person has like 1.7. I don't even know how that works, but you know. ⁓ So it's the population right now is like this and you have almost as many 70, 80 and year old people as you do younger people. And we do not have the housing inventory to serve the need. And we also don't have all the ancillary services as well. then honestly, most of them too aren't even prepared financially or legally.
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Wu: with all the things that start happening with capacity or even loved ones being far away, it's just, there's so much nuance. yes, people don't know what's coming because they've never done it before.
Katie Cashin: So there's a term, TJ, did you put it in the notes? You put it in the notes, because I can't even remember it. We're calling this, what is it? I ⁓ don't even want to pull it up. We're talking about, yeah, we're calling this downsizing. You're saying right sizing? Like.
TJ Monahan: Right, right sizing. Well, I don't know if it, look, I don't help people buy smaller houses than they currently live in. So I'm just looking at it from afar. ⁓ And I've heard a few different times now the term right sizing. So I didn't know if it's becoming a thing or ⁓ like downsizing, does it have a negative connotation to it? And that's why we're starting to hear the term right size. Like I just didn't know. So I was like, I don't know, maybe Jeff knows.
Jeff Wu: think there could be ⁓ some negative subtext in there somewhere, but ultimately, it's not, I don't think it's a big deal. It's whatever the person is comfortable with. One thing where I see ⁓ the word play come into effect is I've had some clients who have downsized into a home that was the same size. so it wasn't really a downsize. It was just,
Katie Cashin: Hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Wu: all one level, or it was a home that was closer to their friends, closer to their doctors, closer to they could walk to Starbucks and it had an elevator. so it's, mean, it's terminology at the end of the day, doesn't really matter.
Katie Cashin: Well, I guess that's a that when you were meeting with folks and talking about this, what is it that you're trying to get them to consider when they are ⁓ when they come to you and say, we're wanting to downsize now or in five years? Like, what is some of how do you focus them and get at what they're actually wanting?
Jeff Wu: That's an awesome, awesome question. ⁓ I think you are a great question asker. ⁓ What it comes down to is most people don't desire to downsize. So they have to come to the decision of what their future looks like. And honestly, downsizing, right-sizing, whatever you call it,
Katie Cashin: Thank you.
Jeff Wu: is more of a change of identity than it has anything to do with the physical home. So they need to go through a discovery process ahead of time and say, who am I in my future and what does my future look like? And I'm like totally serious because it starts here and that's the toughest part. The wood, the bricks, none of that matters if they can't get this right. So we encourage them to think about the positive future. And does that involve them being in a retirement community where they have stimulation and friends and activities and somebody cooking for them? Like, honestly, I know people my age who'd like to sign up for that, you know?
Katie Cashin: I am that person. Me, it's me.
Jeff Wu: Yeah, like my wife likes to go on vacation not because she likes where we're going, but because she doesn't have to cook. And, you know, so there's a lot of benefits to that. Or are you going to get to see your grandkids three times a week or, know, or, you know, what is the positive future look like? So like, that's the biggest thing.
TJ Monahan: Yeah.
Katie Cashin: Hmm.
Jeff Wu: and embracing that positive future and the evolution of yourself. And then once you are committed to that, everything else, it can be emotional, it can be stressful, but it's just details that connect the dots to that next place. I actually in all of real estate, but in particular, you know, in the downsizing process, we have a 5D framework, which we came up with. And the first D is decide. You have to decide. what the future looks like and where you're going to go and who you are. Because I mean, that's the biggest thing. I want you to be happy with that. But really quick before I stop on this is these moves fall into two categories. The first one is voluntary. That means you're doing it by choice. And then the second one is involuntary. That means you're not doing it by choice. Those are where capacity has been diminished or lost, or maybe there is a physical event. Maybe someone is injured or is in the hospital and they cannot return to that home. A lot of times those are no fun. So it's much better to consciously take ownership of that decision and that process and do it voluntarily than be forced to do it. So that's the toughest part is that decision.
TJ Monahan: ⁓ So I didn't, it's like a memory I just like tucked away, a recent memory, but like I didn't, it didn't trigger for me until I was listening to what you were just saying. So we have clients right now and we're designing a bespoke home for them in McLean. They're moving from Potomac. And when we originally started talking about it, they said they were downsizing. They use that word. They said, we're moving across the river, we wanna be closer to the grandkids and we're gonna downsize. We have a big house in Potomac, we don't need that number, it doesn't matter what the number is, that number of square footage anymore. So. we're designing this home and it's largely one floor. There's a little bit of second floor space, it's for guests or like it's one room really, but it's largely one floor with a basement and an elevator. So if they don't want to, they'll never have to use the stairs. ⁓ And as we were going through the process, they were like, ⁓ let's make it a little bit bigger here. Let's make it a little bit bigger there. And the basement was always planned to be unfinished. Like we're not going to finish it, we don't need it. And then I don't know what it was maybe a month ago they're like yeah we're just going to finish the basement. like you were saying like their air quotes downsizing there it's gonna be almost exactly the same number of square feet they have now. It's just closer to their grandkids. so they can spend a lot more time with them a lot easier and they don't have to worry about what the next 20, 30 years looks like because the house is going to work however they need it to work. There's even a suite downstairs that you can access from the outside in case they ever had to have live-in care. ⁓ Right? So they're doing the mental work you're talking about. ⁓ I should connect you to at some point ⁓ because they're I didn't appreciate what they were doing exactly until you were naming it here.
Jeff Wu: The number one reason people move is family. And we see it both ways. You know, we've been spoiled and I actually fought it early on in having our, a lot of family locally and they've helped watch the kids and do different things and coach sports. And, and I thought like, ⁓ geez, but it's been a tremendous value. Whereas other people who don't have that, they're like, ⁓ you know, this is so tough. And then you see old older individuals.
Katie Cashin: Hmm.
Jeff Wu: I had a friend who moved from San Jose to North Carolina to be close to his grandchildren. And ⁓ the funny thing is now they're trying to decide what to do because his son and daughter or daughter and son-in-law now have opportunities in other states. And I'm like, are you going to follow them or like what's going on? And it is just fascinating, but I mean, not to get all emotional. ⁓ There was a study.
Katie Cashin: you you
Jeff Wu: And basically, unless we have close proximity, a lot of our loved ones, we're only going to see him once or twice a year. And, you know, I love the author, Sahil Bloom. He wrote the five types of wealth and spoiler alert, only one is money. ⁓ Five types of wealth. He said he got emotional when I think he was in California, went to Stanford, played baseball and his his parents, I think, were in New Jersey. And he was like, I'm like with life expectancy, I'm probably only going to see them 15 more times. And he's like, that's not good enough. So he moved to be closer to his parents. And now he has a young child and they see them three or four times a week. And it's like heaven. It's totally different. So both sides of the spectrum are doing that. And it's like number one reason people move family.
Katie Cashin: Yeah, I'll add another, like having, I sing in a ⁓ church choir and I think just by like inherent demographics of church choirs, bring the average age down. Maybe not so much anymore. 10 years ago when I joined it, but it, I, It's such a gift, the relationships I have there and getting to see, you know, that there are folks who family's complicated, right? Like, and when you first said it goes both ways, I was like, people moving towards or moving away from family. but to, through like, you know, my choir experience to have met adults who are not coupled or partnered. and who don't have family nearby, but who have made this downsizing or right-sizing move to have more community so that they are not out in this house way out in northern Baltimore County. They want to come closer and they want to like... basically at ⁓ an older age have a chosen family, which is really, really cool. So that seems true to what you're saying as well, that that proximity, even if it isn't maybe biological family, ⁓ having that with folks. This might be something both of you can answer as you're talking about it. And it might take us into what the four other Ds are in this process. ⁓ When it comes to that confidence to make the decision, to decide, along with seeing the benefit of being closer to family or more in community, is there anything else that you've seen helps people feel more confident in this decision?
TJ Monahan: It's like what we do is different. ⁓ So my answer isn't so much related to downsizing as it is to helping people make the big complicated decisions we help them make. ⁓ But I found when people have the right team.
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm.
TJ Monahan: Decisions get so much easier when you feel like you're going it alone and you don't have people that you trust in your life That's when you spin your wheels and you're like, I don't know. Is this the right thing? I don't know and you just you're you're paralyzed by indecision forever and that's how sometimes we talk to people who have wanted to remodel but don't do it for 20 30 or 40 years because they just Haven't met the right professionals yet Jeff, do would you do you find a similar thing or is it finding?
Katie Cashin: Yeah.
TJ Monahan: right people is it something else?
Jeff Wu: I mean, I think that is super helpful. The right team, yeah, the right ⁓ people that are, you know, well-intended, looking out for the best for the person, but also, you know, giving them a nudge at certain times when there's obstacles that shouldn't be as daunting. ⁓ One thing, Katie, that you said is ⁓ sometimes those, whether it's a church family or just a community or people who love the same thing, it is really powerful. finding those people because isolation is a contributor to cognitive decline and isolation is also a punishment in jail. And yet a lot of older individuals are unconsciously experiencing and choosing isolation because they are away from their friends, their family, they are alone and ⁓
Katie Cashin: Yeah.
Jeff Wu: And then many of them too have trouble going back to the hats concept. If they were in a relationship, one person wore certain hats. Sometimes they're financial, sometimes they're taking care of the appliances and the other person wore other hats. And when one is gone, sometimes it's hard to wear all of those hats. so, ⁓ yeah, the team is, is super important. And then that's why we even too, would try to encourage people.
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Wu: to empower them to even stay in their home longer if that's what they choose to do because most of the time it's paid off. So we'll help them, you know, pull in a landscaper, take that off your plate, pull in a cleaning company, take that off your plate. You know, how can we, you know, minimize the burden that you feel for this big home if you do want to stay there longer? But if not, then we'll help you, you know, evolve as well.
Katie Cashin: Something that sounds really important in both of those answers, both of your answers, TJ and Jeff, ⁓ and maybe everyone can hear it and it's obvious. If it's not, I just want to pull it out, is in how you are working with people, ⁓ it's a part of what makes the team supportive and effective. when you are working with older adults and their families or anybody who's having to make this transition in a less than smooth, easy and convenient way, let's say, you're both sharing things that are about encouraging and empowering and helping people come to their confidence in a way that... honors their autonomy and their dignity. And I think especially with older adults, that is such an issue that ⁓ they can, there are a lot of service providers, there are a lot of communities that sort of. ⁓ take the dignity out of the equation and forget that these people are adults who have led full lives and maybe do feel overwhelmed right now by all the hats they have to wear. But that doesn't mean you need to take the decision away from them or make it for them. And that feels very cool as someone who has seen adults in her own life benefit from that. I'm really encouraged to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. That's. It feels very important in this part of work. ⁓ TJ, I have one more burning question, but I feel like I have been taking over. I am the solo host of this podcast now, so.
TJ Monahan: Yeah, no, good. Look, I'm just gonna show up and smile every once in a while and you do all the work. That's fine with me. Yeah.
Katie Cashin: You take care of it in post, you and Sylvia, and it'll be fine. No, I think my, ⁓ you know, this, we're coming on time, but my last question is a really practical one, ⁓ that Jeff, if folks or family members of folks who are needing to make a downsize. ⁓ If they are looking to work with a realtor and they're wanting to work with someone who knows how to do this very specific and intentional kind of work is there anything they can ask or To know if that professional can serve them in this way or anywhere specifically they can look
Jeff Wu: ⁓ That is an excellent question. It's actually something I'm working to rectify personally in a way. We are coming into a weird time, a new age now, AI, all of these things. I've actually been doing this work for 15 years and been doing seminars and doing all of these things. However, I haven't been telling anybody. We've been serving the need, doing the talks and enabling the clients. ⁓ so now we actually, ⁓ a little over a month ago started a downsizing YouTube channel called the downsizing guide. So we're creating content, which hopefully people can find short videos, long videos. I'm going to interview professionals, other professionals in the space. I've already interviewed in the state sales company, a senior move manager, and even a. ⁓ director of sales from a CCRC, which is a continuing care retirement community. These are really cool. ⁓ places where people can start with independent living, but then they have a whole evolution for as their needs may change or evolve. ⁓ so, you know, I'm going to be creating content in the space. Hopefully people can benefit from, but two ⁓ other ways, actually maybe three, but probably two is, ⁓ the national realtor association has something called S R E S, ⁓ stands for senior real estate specialists. It is a solid. a basic course to educate realtors about working with seniors. ⁓ It is a good start. ⁓ It is not, you know, super robust, but it's better than nothing. If they've paid money and then invested the time to do that, that's a little, I think I did it 10 years ago or whatever. ⁓ But then I highly recommend something else. And this is a group I'm connected with called SREI. There's a fabulous woman. name is Nikki Buckaloo. She had a real estate team, was real estate coach. She actually got a doctorate degree in gerontology, which if you know is a study of aging. ⁓ And then she was helping people in that space. And then she continued with other real estate things. She created this whole thing called SREI, Senior Real Estate Institute. ⁓ They have a group you can be connected with. They have an annual conference and they even have a certification. So I'm a part of that network and that's even a much higher level of deeper commitment. And a lot of people that I'll even be on zoom with once a month and we're synergizing, we're talking, we're helping some people in this space have even seen an extra need where they're doing more parts of the process because the older individual only wants to deal with one person versus dealing with five other people and it's out of specific need. So
Katie Cashin: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Wu: Those two, and then a last one, which is not real estate specific, but I even know a couple of realtors who have done it. There's something called the CSA. ⁓ And I think it's certified senior advisor or something. And other industries can get that as well. But ⁓ I like to think of myself kind of like a general contractor because I have connections with in-home care, senior move management, and even great people who can help the older individual discover the right landing place. If it is an adult community, they can help find the one that's just right for them. You know, do they allow pets? Do they have this? Do they have that? What kind of engagement? And is it close to where I want to be? And, you know, different kind of things, helping them experience that. Because once they've had a taste and see what kind of the next phase can be, it can help them move forward. The other thing I like to tell people and then I'll be quiet is that ⁓ Downsizing doesn't have to be like once and done. Like my senior move manager, a friend Adele, she got into this because she helped her parents move 10 times in 20 years. So it might be from one state to another state. It might be from a big home to a smaller home. It might be to a condo. It might be to an independent living. It might be to memory care. It might be to a higher level of care. There's, it's not, don't think that this move is the is the end. That's what holds people back. seems like, and there may be more iteration and it's okay.
Katie Cashin: Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because I think, you know, we were going to say last thoughts and that's a really, really great one that it's a this isn't the end of the story. This is just another chapter. So cool. So cool.
TJ Monahan: for people who are listening to the level of care that Jeff conducts his business with and are like, how do I work with Jeff? Like I live in DC or Maryland or in Virginia and I need this help. ⁓ Do you want me to put your contact information in the show notes? Do you want to just tell people here you want me to do both?
Jeff Wu: Whatever you want to do.
TJ Monahan: Tell people here and I'll do, afterward I'll put it in the show notes. So tell people if they're here, DC, Maryland or Virginia, they need the help that you're so good at providing. How do they reach out to you?
Jeff Wu: Yeah, I would love to have a conversation, a Zoom or even meet in person. As I mentioned, we have our downsizing focused YouTube channel called the downsizing guide, or you can check out our generic website, agentknowshomes.com, or you can just shoot me a text at 240-994-7938.
TJ Monahan: Wow, puts the cell phone number on air. Wow, confident. And that sure is. And I gotta tell you, Jeff, I've been looking at your shirt.
Katie Cashin: There we go. Excellent. That's commitment.
TJ Monahan: this whole episode, it's an agent knows home shirt. And I'm like, how are freaking Katie and I here for 40 some odd episodes with no design happy shirt? Like you're here, here like, you know, podcast one with us and you're like, boom, coming out the gate strong branded shirt. So.
Katie Cashin: Merch, merch, merch.
Jeff Wu: You should get some hats or something, yeah.
Katie Cashin: hats, shirts, temporary tattoos. Let's do it.
Jeff Wu: I want to design happy hat. Yeah. They are great, ⁓ talking points. No people are gonna be like, what's that? And we're like, do you need it? Do you need an architect? Do you need, do you need? Yeah. Yeah. People come up to me. I have a ⁓ San Diego Padres hat. have a Spurs hat in there. And I'm like, I never knew there were so many people from San Antonio here. And it's like, it's like a magnet. People will just talk to you. Yeah.
TJ Monahan: Yeah.
Katie Cashin: We will send you one.
TJ Monahan: ⁓ Yeah.
Katie Cashin: ⁓ I love it. So just get a like non-local sports team hat is what you're saying.
Jeff Wu: I have this guy who works for me and he wears Yankees hats and Red Sox hats. And I'm like, you know, they're like in the same. And he's like, it doesn't matter. They come up to you. They just come up to you and they're like, yeah, go Red Sox. And you're like, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, you know.
TJ Monahan: So I've been doing networking all wrong. gotta wear, here's my new plan. I'm gonna buy a whole bunch of hats and I'm gonna wear one and then people are gonna be like, ⁓ my God, I love the Oklahoma City Thunder too. And then I'm gonna be like, can I talk to you about architecture? And they're like, no, I wanted to talk about basketball. I'm like, now we're gonna talk about architecture.
Katie Cashin: Secrets. All wrong.
Jeff Wu: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Katie Cashin: You
Jeff Wu: No, no, no. I can design you a house that has a hoop inside of it. Yes. Design happy. Design happy. Yeah.
Katie Cashin: There's the bridge. There's the bridge. Well, here's where I, the piece that I have though is I know nothing about sports. So I'll get the hats. I will wear them and they'll be like, I wanna talk about football. And I'll be like, I can't actually, but I can talk about. downsizing and a professional that can help you or remodeling and I'll be like, I actually can't have that conversation with you, but I could. ⁓ Jeff, thanks so much for joining us, for ⁓ being t-shirt ready, for being shirt ready, ⁓ and for all of the insights. Love it. This was a great conversation.
Jeff Wu: Thank you. Yeah. I have a quick question. Do you guys do this once a month? It's like all day or like how, what does that look like? Cause I'm, I'm trying to be better with creating content as well.
TJ Monahan: Secret tips on the air? Yeah. Yes. The answer is yes. We do it once a month. And so we batch record. I'm a cartoon character and I wear the same exact thing every day. So I've worn this shirt, not this exact shirt, but one of these shirts that I have. Katie gets fancy once in a while. She's like, I'm going to do an outfit change.
Katie Cashin: behind the scenes.
Jeff Wu: Okay.
Katie Cashin: Yeah. Fancy. I'm getting less fancy as we go. I'm getting less fancy as we go. Now I'm like, yeah.
TJ Monahan: Now she's phoning it in is what she's saying. The last episode we recorded, we didn't have an outline. She doesn't care about the outfit changes anymore. Just like we're on, it's just autopilot.
Katie Cashin: No. It's improv.
Jeff Wu: So I have my shirt right here. This is for my podcast. I wear this, be better than yesterday. Because it's about personal development. ⁓ So that's what I've been, and I think that your clothing can be anchors for either the positive vibes or the things that you're trying to do. And like TJ, like you said, don't think about it. You're just wearing the same thing.
TJ Monahan: Gosh, come on, look at that.
Jeff Wu: every day and yet people are consuming whether you know it or not. They're consuming it.
Katie Cashin: I love it. Consistency. What? Merch. Sylvia, merch. We need merch. I can't wait to see what our merch says. It'll be, it might be positive, but it's going to be positively ridiculous. ⁓
TJ Monahan: Yeah, but see what a missed opportunity. See, Katie, merch. After we hang up, we're getting... ⁓ my gosh.
Jeff Wu: Would it be a little, a little slang, a little bit snarkiness to it or no. Okay.
TJ Monahan: ⁓ my gosh. don't... Like, there'll be a real version that we share with people and then there'll be our own nonsense version. ⁓ Goodness. Well, Jeff.
Katie Cashin: I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. ⁓ not so sure about that. Okay. All right. Well.
TJ Monahan: Again, look, I appreciate your friendship and I'm so glad that I came to that networking meeting originally. ⁓ so I really value the friendship that we've built. thank you for that. And thank you for taking the time to be here. It's an important conversation for us to have here and for people to think about. And I didn't appreciate how much nuance ⁓ was in it. So thank you for sharing it with us.
Jeff Wu: ⁓ people, ⁓ don't realize like one third of the homes are paid off in, the country. So that's like unknown. And then the other thing too, is, a lot of the data that's out there is incorrect because national association realtors is polling people every year who bought a house. They sold the house and they bought a house. They're not polling people who sold, but didn't buy. So, ⁓ there's a huge population out there.
Katie Cashin: Hmm.
Jeff Wu: And this year, average first time home buyer is 40 years old. And the people who have the power to take action are anywhere from 49 to like 79. And that's where the movers and shakers are. And they have all kinds of their own unique issues and challenges and circumstances. So it really pays to be educated and be compassionate to those needs.
TJ Monahan: Awesome.
Katie Cashin: Thank you for educating us. ⁓ This is great. Wonderful. Okay. Well, once again, TJ, we did it. We did it. Okay. Till next time, we will see you then. Bye.
TJ Monahan: We did it. We'll see you then.
Katie Cashin: And I'm Katie and today we're welcoming Realtor Jeff Wu to the podcast to bring some expert advice to anyone who likes the idea of downsizing but doesn't actually know what that means or how to do it. Welcome Jeff.
Jeff Wu: Thank you, thank you, so happy to be here.
Katie Cashin: We are happy to have you.
TJ Monahan: We're happy to... ⁓ you beat me to it. You...
Katie Cashin: We're happy to have you. The two of you, we were sort of holding off of this in our pre-recording banter, but together, can you collaboratively put together how you met, how you got to know each other, go?
TJ Monahan: in unison.
Jeff Wu: I was just saying, I think I'm really fascinated by two things. It's number one, the name of the company, ⁓ Design Happy. I mean, that is really cool. ⁓ Right now I'm addicted to identity and values and really hopefully attracting great people that you want to work with. And also that giving like a great experience and impacting the life and the future.
TJ Monahan: Yeah.
Jeff Wu: So that when I heard about the name of the company, Design Happy, I thought that was really cool. And then secondly, think, you know, TJ has a cool just ethos and vibe and he doesn't seem stressed and he wants to leave his clients and his friends and everybody in a better place. And I like that. I wanted to be connected with that.
TJ Monahan: Good, you heard it here first, never stressed. No stress. ⁓ yep, that's, you know what? That's what people have told me my whole life. That TJ, he's just always cool. ⁓
Katie Cashin: Never stressed. Always cool. ⁓ I mean, mean, reference, reference the haircut in the book. TJ, what do you say?
TJ Monahan: ⁓ yeah, yeah, that's right. ⁓ So yeah, so officially, officially, Jeff and I officially met at a network meeting networking. I got invited to the chapter that he was in and it's it was an in person meeting and people kind of stand up and ⁓ talk about their business and do an introduction. And Jeff got up and ran, no joke, ran to the front of the room. to bring some energy to it and I was like what the heck just happened? We weren't friends yet, I was just like I'm not sure if this guy is nuts, if it's legitimate, if this is him or if he's putting on a shtick and then we got to talking and I was like this is just like the kind of high energy, really good kind of bringing everybody up. ⁓ kind of person that Jeff is. So we met there and then I've gone back to that networking group a couple of times and sure enough, every time, boom, run to the front of the room. ⁓ It's early. It's an early meeting. So most people there are like, know, I'm still waking up and Jeff is there making sure everyone's getting their head straight, running to the front of the room, be like, let's get started. We're going to do it. ⁓ And I just, I really appreciate that. Like that's the kind of energy I want to in my life too. So ⁓ it was great. And then we became friends.
Katie Cashin: Very cool, very cool. Lovely. That makes so much sense to me as someone who knows you TJ and is just meeting you Jeff. It clicks and connects. Jeff, can you tell our dear, dear wonderful audience a bit about your work, what you do?
Jeff Wu: Yeah, my pleasure. ⁓ So residential real estate agent, licensed Virginia, Maryland and DC. And ⁓ a huge ⁓ component of what we do is really ⁓ education. And ⁓ we have different pillars in our business and a lot of them are tied back to education. I actually get paid to teach classes to other realtors across the country and
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Wu: That's really neat because it fills my bucket. I can share mistakes I've made and I can empower and make them better. And yet coincidentally, a third of our business comes from agent referrals from these agents who have either taken my classes or I've been connected to across the country. And then another third of our business is ⁓ seniors, estate and downsizing. And we actually do free talks about aging in place, about downsizing and about dealing with situations and circumstances that only typically an older adult or somebody who's been in their home 40, 50 years would encounter.
Katie Cashin: That sounds very needed, and I'm wondering if that's something that, and kind of rare, is that something that a lot of realtors talk about or educate on? ⁓ Again, I sort of stand in as the proxy for our audience here. So pretend I know nothing ⁓ or less than. I'm not a professional working in this field, let's pretend. Yeah, when it comes to downsizing, is that something that a lot of... agents were giving attention and educating folks on.
Jeff Wu: So it's becoming a little bit more en vogue, but it really is something that takes a longer commitment and a higher level of awareness. ⁓ I think in the pre-show, we talked jokingly about a lot of the hats we wear. Well, when we're in real estate, we are almost always tied into somebody's life event. And it could be they're having a baby, they need more space. It could be they're getting married.
Katie Cashin: Mm.
Jeff Wu: It could be there's a divorce or in a downsizing situation, you know, there's so much emotion there. Maybe a loved one or a spouse has passed away. Maybe there's been a health event and they can no longer use the stairs. You know, there's a lot of things going on. So we have all those hats we have to wear and it takes a commitment. And then some of the people I've been talking to with downsizing to, they say, ⁓ I'm downsizing. And we say, well, when, and they say, in five years. And so, yes, it's becoming more in vogue, but it's not the slam dunk that a lot of business people are looking for. So it really does take a commitment. And the other piece, too, is ⁓ a lot of these people are making the move based on their need or their desire, not on the interest rates and not on any particular other thing. So that's
Katie Cashin: you
Jeff Wu: a big part of it is having a commitment to love and be compassionate to this population of people, and then also being patient. So that's where I love that education piece we can pour into them, and hopefully they remember us when their actual need arises.
Katie Cashin: Mmm. Yeah, I'm so... You're smiling TJ.
TJ Monahan: Well, I'm smiling because that look Jeff and I get along because we're we're we're doing similar things in different industries and I Katie obviously knows how much time we spend educating people. That's the reason we have this podcast. Like we're not doing the podcast to, we're still waiting for, ⁓ Sylvia is just really, ⁓ Jeff, we have a fake producer named Sylvia. She doesn't really exist, but she's really not, she's not pulling her weight here, ⁓ finding us a sponsor for this podcast. But ⁓ it takes a special kind of person to,
Katie Cashin: you She's real in our hearts. you
TJ Monahan: value the education piece of it, especially in real estate where you see so much of it on TV, you read about it, there's so many realtors to choose to ⁓ take an empathetic view on the process and invest your time educating people when the actual monetary return might not come for five years. ⁓ you're doing something really good in the world.
Katie Cashin: And also needed, I would argue, for anyone who does have ⁓ seniors or someone recently in my life who's like, I call myself elite. I'm elite, I'm not a senior. ⁓ Seniors are elites in their life. Older adults who are lucky enough and have the gift of having older adults in their life. You see all of the market areas where they are just not considered and they're just or not the resources that are needed. And this feels like something I ⁓ kind of embarrassed that I didn't even think about until we were planning for this episode and how ⁓ great this is, but so, so, so needed, such a needed resource. Yeah.
Jeff Wu: Two data points real quick is number one, because of the baby boomers, 10,000 people turn 65 every day. and I mean, in scheme of the country, 10,000 is not a lot, but it is a lot. And the other thing too, in the past, the population kind of visually, it used to look like a pyramid. So the most amount of people were the younger people. And then as you aged, there were less people at the top of the pyramid. Well,
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Wu: I don't know if it's everybody's eating more broccoli or they just are driving better because we've got self-driving cars. But now it's like a rectangle or a column. And there are almost as many older people as there are younger people. And maybe it's also too, maybe people are having less babies. I don't know. I'm a weirdo. have four kids, but now the average person has like 1.7. I don't even know how that works, but you know. ⁓ So it's the population right now is like this and you have almost as many 70, 80 and year old people as you do younger people. And we do not have the housing inventory to serve the need. And we also don't have all the ancillary services as well. then honestly, most of them too aren't even prepared financially or legally.
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Wu: with all the things that start happening with capacity or even loved ones being far away, it's just, there's so much nuance. yes, people don't know what's coming because they've never done it before.
Katie Cashin: So there's a term, TJ, did you put it in the notes? You put it in the notes, because I can't even remember it. We're calling this, what is it? I ⁓ don't even want to pull it up. We're talking about, yeah, we're calling this downsizing. You're saying right sizing? Like.
TJ Monahan: Right, right sizing. Well, I don't know if it, look, I don't help people buy smaller houses than they currently live in. So I'm just looking at it from afar. ⁓ And I've heard a few different times now the term right sizing. So I didn't know if it's becoming a thing or ⁓ like downsizing, does it have a negative connotation to it? And that's why we're starting to hear the term right size. Like I just didn't know. So I was like, I don't know, maybe Jeff knows.
Jeff Wu: think there could be ⁓ some negative subtext in there somewhere, but ultimately, it's not, I don't think it's a big deal. It's whatever the person is comfortable with. One thing where I see ⁓ the word play come into effect is I've had some clients who have downsized into a home that was the same size. so it wasn't really a downsize. It was just,
Katie Cashin: Hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Wu: all one level, or it was a home that was closer to their friends, closer to their doctors, closer to they could walk to Starbucks and it had an elevator. so it's, mean, it's terminology at the end of the day, doesn't really matter.
Katie Cashin: Well, I guess that's a that when you were meeting with folks and talking about this, what is it that you're trying to get them to consider when they are ⁓ when they come to you and say, we're wanting to downsize now or in five years? Like, what is some of how do you focus them and get at what they're actually wanting?
Jeff Wu: That's an awesome, awesome question. ⁓ I think you are a great question asker. ⁓ What it comes down to is most people don't desire to downsize. So they have to come to the decision of what their future looks like. And honestly, downsizing, right-sizing, whatever you call it,
Katie Cashin: Thank you.
Jeff Wu: is more of a change of identity than it has anything to do with the physical home. So they need to go through a discovery process ahead of time and say, who am I in my future and what does my future look like? And I'm like totally serious because it starts here and that's the toughest part. The wood, the bricks, none of that matters if they can't get this right. So we encourage them to think about the positive future. And does that involve them being in a retirement community where they have stimulation and friends and activities and somebody cooking for them? Like, honestly, I know people my age who'd like to sign up for that, you know?
Katie Cashin: I am that person. Me, it's me.
Jeff Wu: Yeah, like my wife likes to go on vacation not because she likes where we're going, but because she doesn't have to cook. And, you know, so there's a lot of benefits to that. Or are you going to get to see your grandkids three times a week or, know, or, you know, what is the positive future look like? So like, that's the biggest thing.
TJ Monahan: Yeah.
Katie Cashin: Hmm.
Jeff Wu: and embracing that positive future and the evolution of yourself. And then once you are committed to that, everything else, it can be emotional, it can be stressful, but it's just details that connect the dots to that next place. I actually in all of real estate, but in particular, you know, in the downsizing process, we have a 5D framework, which we came up with. And the first D is decide. You have to decide. what the future looks like and where you're going to go and who you are. Because I mean, that's the biggest thing. I want you to be happy with that. But really quick before I stop on this is these moves fall into two categories. The first one is voluntary. That means you're doing it by choice. And then the second one is involuntary. That means you're not doing it by choice. Those are where capacity has been diminished or lost, or maybe there is a physical event. Maybe someone is injured or is in the hospital and they cannot return to that home. A lot of times those are no fun. So it's much better to consciously take ownership of that decision and that process and do it voluntarily than be forced to do it. So that's the toughest part is that decision.
TJ Monahan: ⁓ So I didn't, it's like a memory I just like tucked away, a recent memory, but like I didn't, it didn't trigger for me until I was listening to what you were just saying. So we have clients right now and we're designing a bespoke home for them in McLean. They're moving from Potomac. And when we originally started talking about it, they said they were downsizing. They use that word. They said, we're moving across the river, we wanna be closer to the grandkids and we're gonna downsize. We have a big house in Potomac, we don't need that number, it doesn't matter what the number is, that number of square footage anymore. So. we're designing this home and it's largely one floor. There's a little bit of second floor space, it's for guests or like it's one room really, but it's largely one floor with a basement and an elevator. So if they don't want to, they'll never have to use the stairs. ⁓ And as we were going through the process, they were like, ⁓ let's make it a little bit bigger here. Let's make it a little bit bigger there. And the basement was always planned to be unfinished. Like we're not going to finish it, we don't need it. And then I don't know what it was maybe a month ago they're like yeah we're just going to finish the basement. like you were saying like their air quotes downsizing there it's gonna be almost exactly the same number of square feet they have now. It's just closer to their grandkids. so they can spend a lot more time with them a lot easier and they don't have to worry about what the next 20, 30 years looks like because the house is going to work however they need it to work. There's even a suite downstairs that you can access from the outside in case they ever had to have live-in care. ⁓ Right? So they're doing the mental work you're talking about. ⁓ I should connect you to at some point ⁓ because they're I didn't appreciate what they were doing exactly until you were naming it here.
Jeff Wu: The number one reason people move is family. And we see it both ways. You know, we've been spoiled and I actually fought it early on in having our, a lot of family locally and they've helped watch the kids and do different things and coach sports. And, and I thought like, ⁓ geez, but it's been a tremendous value. Whereas other people who don't have that, they're like, ⁓ you know, this is so tough. And then you see old older individuals.
Katie Cashin: Hmm.
Jeff Wu: I had a friend who moved from San Jose to North Carolina to be close to his grandchildren. And ⁓ the funny thing is now they're trying to decide what to do because his son and daughter or daughter and son-in-law now have opportunities in other states. And I'm like, are you going to follow them or like what's going on? And it is just fascinating, but I mean, not to get all emotional. ⁓ There was a study.
Katie Cashin: you you
Jeff Wu: And basically, unless we have close proximity, a lot of our loved ones, we're only going to see him once or twice a year. And, you know, I love the author, Sahil Bloom. He wrote the five types of wealth and spoiler alert, only one is money. ⁓ Five types of wealth. He said he got emotional when I think he was in California, went to Stanford, played baseball and his his parents, I think, were in New Jersey. And he was like, I'm like with life expectancy, I'm probably only going to see them 15 more times. And he's like, that's not good enough. So he moved to be closer to his parents. And now he has a young child and they see them three or four times a week. And it's like heaven. It's totally different. So both sides of the spectrum are doing that. And it's like number one reason people move family.
Katie Cashin: Yeah, I'll add another, like having, I sing in a ⁓ church choir and I think just by like inherent demographics of church choirs, bring the average age down. Maybe not so much anymore. 10 years ago when I joined it, but it, I, It's such a gift, the relationships I have there and getting to see, you know, that there are folks who family's complicated, right? Like, and when you first said it goes both ways, I was like, people moving towards or moving away from family. but to, through like, you know, my choir experience to have met adults who are not coupled or partnered. and who don't have family nearby, but who have made this downsizing or right-sizing move to have more community so that they are not out in this house way out in northern Baltimore County. They want to come closer and they want to like... basically at ⁓ an older age have a chosen family, which is really, really cool. So that seems true to what you're saying as well, that that proximity, even if it isn't maybe biological family, ⁓ having that with folks. This might be something both of you can answer as you're talking about it. And it might take us into what the four other Ds are in this process. ⁓ When it comes to that confidence to make the decision, to decide, along with seeing the benefit of being closer to family or more in community, is there anything else that you've seen helps people feel more confident in this decision?
TJ Monahan: It's like what we do is different. ⁓ So my answer isn't so much related to downsizing as it is to helping people make the big complicated decisions we help them make. ⁓ But I found when people have the right team.
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm.
TJ Monahan: Decisions get so much easier when you feel like you're going it alone and you don't have people that you trust in your life That's when you spin your wheels and you're like, I don't know. Is this the right thing? I don't know and you just you're you're paralyzed by indecision forever and that's how sometimes we talk to people who have wanted to remodel but don't do it for 20 30 or 40 years because they just Haven't met the right professionals yet Jeff, do would you do you find a similar thing or is it finding?
Katie Cashin: Yeah.
TJ Monahan: right people is it something else?
Jeff Wu: I mean, I think that is super helpful. The right team, yeah, the right ⁓ people that are, you know, well-intended, looking out for the best for the person, but also, you know, giving them a nudge at certain times when there's obstacles that shouldn't be as daunting. ⁓ One thing, Katie, that you said is ⁓ sometimes those, whether it's a church family or just a community or people who love the same thing, it is really powerful. finding those people because isolation is a contributor to cognitive decline and isolation is also a punishment in jail. And yet a lot of older individuals are unconsciously experiencing and choosing isolation because they are away from their friends, their family, they are alone and ⁓
Katie Cashin: Yeah.
Jeff Wu: And then many of them too have trouble going back to the hats concept. If they were in a relationship, one person wore certain hats. Sometimes they're financial, sometimes they're taking care of the appliances and the other person wore other hats. And when one is gone, sometimes it's hard to wear all of those hats. so, ⁓ yeah, the team is, is super important. And then that's why we even too, would try to encourage people.
Katie Cashin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Wu: to empower them to even stay in their home longer if that's what they choose to do because most of the time it's paid off. So we'll help them, you know, pull in a landscaper, take that off your plate, pull in a cleaning company, take that off your plate. You know, how can we, you know, minimize the burden that you feel for this big home if you do want to stay there longer? But if not, then we'll help you, you know, evolve as well.
Katie Cashin: Something that sounds really important in both of those answers, both of your answers, TJ and Jeff, ⁓ and maybe everyone can hear it and it's obvious. If it's not, I just want to pull it out, is in how you are working with people, ⁓ it's a part of what makes the team supportive and effective. when you are working with older adults and their families or anybody who's having to make this transition in a less than smooth, easy and convenient way, let's say, you're both sharing things that are about encouraging and empowering and helping people come to their confidence in a way that... honors their autonomy and their dignity. And I think especially with older adults, that is such an issue that ⁓ they can, there are a lot of service providers, there are a lot of communities that sort of. ⁓ take the dignity out of the equation and forget that these people are adults who have led full lives and maybe do feel overwhelmed right now by all the hats they have to wear. But that doesn't mean you need to take the decision away from them or make it for them. And that feels very cool as someone who has seen adults in her own life benefit from that. I'm really encouraged to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. That's. It feels very important in this part of work. ⁓ TJ, I have one more burning question, but I feel like I have been taking over. I am the solo host of this podcast now, so.
TJ Monahan: Yeah, no, good. Look, I'm just gonna show up and smile every once in a while and you do all the work. That's fine with me. Yeah.
Katie Cashin: You take care of it in post, you and Sylvia, and it'll be fine. No, I think my, ⁓ you know, this, we're coming on time, but my last question is a really practical one, ⁓ that Jeff, if folks or family members of folks who are needing to make a downsize. ⁓ If they are looking to work with a realtor and they're wanting to work with someone who knows how to do this very specific and intentional kind of work is there anything they can ask or To know if that professional can serve them in this way or anywhere specifically they can look
Jeff Wu: ⁓ That is an excellent question. It's actually something I'm working to rectify personally in a way. We are coming into a weird time, a new age now, AI, all of these things. I've actually been doing this work for 15 years and been doing seminars and doing all of these things. However, I haven't been telling anybody. We've been serving the need, doing the talks and enabling the clients. ⁓ so now we actually, ⁓ a little over a month ago started a downsizing YouTube channel called the downsizing guide. So we're creating content, which hopefully people can find short videos, long videos. I'm going to interview professionals, other professionals in the space. I've already interviewed in the state sales company, a senior move manager, and even a. ⁓ director of sales from a CCRC, which is a continuing care retirement community. These are really cool. ⁓ places where people can start with independent living, but then they have a whole evolution for as their needs may change or evolve. ⁓ so, you know, I'm going to be creating content in the space. Hopefully people can benefit from, but two ⁓ other ways, actually maybe three, but probably two is, ⁓ the national realtor association has something called S R E S, ⁓ stands for senior real estate specialists. It is a solid. a basic course to educate realtors about working with seniors. ⁓ It is a good start. ⁓ It is not, you know, super robust, but it's better than nothing. If they've paid money and then invested the time to do that, that's a little, I think I did it 10 years ago or whatever. ⁓ But then I highly recommend something else. And this is a group I'm connected with called SREI. There's a fabulous woman. name is Nikki Buckaloo. She had a real estate team, was real estate coach. She actually got a doctorate degree in gerontology, which if you know is a study of aging. ⁓ And then she was helping people in that space. And then she continued with other real estate things. She created this whole thing called SREI, Senior Real Estate Institute. ⁓ They have a group you can be connected with. They have an annual conference and they even have a certification. So I'm a part of that network and that's even a much higher level of deeper commitment. And a lot of people that I'll even be on zoom with once a month and we're synergizing, we're talking, we're helping some people in this space have even seen an extra need where they're doing more parts of the process because the older individual only wants to deal with one person versus dealing with five other people and it's out of specific need. So
Katie Cashin: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Wu: Those two, and then a last one, which is not real estate specific, but I even know a couple of realtors who have done it. There's something called the CSA. ⁓ And I think it's certified senior advisor or something. And other industries can get that as well. But ⁓ I like to think of myself kind of like a general contractor because I have connections with in-home care, senior move management, and even great people who can help the older individual discover the right landing place. If it is an adult community, they can help find the one that's just right for them. You know, do they allow pets? Do they have this? Do they have that? What kind of engagement? And is it close to where I want to be? And, you know, different kind of things, helping them experience that. Because once they've had a taste and see what kind of the next phase can be, it can help them move forward. The other thing I like to tell people and then I'll be quiet is that ⁓ Downsizing doesn't have to be like once and done. Like my senior move manager, a friend Adele, she got into this because she helped her parents move 10 times in 20 years. So it might be from one state to another state. It might be from a big home to a smaller home. It might be to a condo. It might be to an independent living. It might be to memory care. It might be to a higher level of care. There's, it's not, don't think that this move is the is the end. That's what holds people back. seems like, and there may be more iteration and it's okay.
Katie Cashin: Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because I think, you know, we were going to say last thoughts and that's a really, really great one that it's a this isn't the end of the story. This is just another chapter. So cool. So cool.
TJ Monahan: for people who are listening to the level of care that Jeff conducts his business with and are like, how do I work with Jeff? Like I live in DC or Maryland or in Virginia and I need this help. ⁓ Do you want me to put your contact information in the show notes? Do you want to just tell people here you want me to do both?
Jeff Wu: Whatever you want to do.
TJ Monahan: Tell people here and I'll do, afterward I'll put it in the show notes. So tell people if they're here, DC, Maryland or Virginia, they need the help that you're so good at providing. How do they reach out to you?
Jeff Wu: Yeah, I would love to have a conversation, a Zoom or even meet in person. As I mentioned, we have our downsizing focused YouTube channel called the downsizing guide, or you can check out our generic website, agentknowshomes.com, or you can just shoot me a text at 240-994-7938.
TJ Monahan: Wow, puts the cell phone number on air. Wow, confident. And that sure is. And I gotta tell you, Jeff, I've been looking at your shirt.
Katie Cashin: There we go. Excellent. That's commitment.
TJ Monahan: this whole episode, it's an agent knows home shirt. And I'm like, how are freaking Katie and I here for 40 some odd episodes with no design happy shirt? Like you're here, here like, you know, podcast one with us and you're like, boom, coming out the gate strong branded shirt. So.
Katie Cashin: Merch, merch, merch.
Jeff Wu: You should get some hats or something, yeah.
Katie Cashin: hats, shirts, temporary tattoos. Let's do it.
Jeff Wu: I want to design happy hat. Yeah. They are great, ⁓ talking points. No people are gonna be like, what's that? And we're like, do you need it? Do you need an architect? Do you need, do you need? Yeah. Yeah. People come up to me. I have a ⁓ San Diego Padres hat. have a Spurs hat in there. And I'm like, I never knew there were so many people from San Antonio here. And it's like, it's like a magnet. People will just talk to you. Yeah.
TJ Monahan: Yeah.
Katie Cashin: We will send you one.
TJ Monahan: ⁓ Yeah.
Katie Cashin: ⁓ I love it. So just get a like non-local sports team hat is what you're saying.
Jeff Wu: I have this guy who works for me and he wears Yankees hats and Red Sox hats. And I'm like, you know, they're like in the same. And he's like, it doesn't matter. They come up to you. They just come up to you and they're like, yeah, go Red Sox. And you're like, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, you know.
TJ Monahan: So I've been doing networking all wrong. gotta wear, here's my new plan. I'm gonna buy a whole bunch of hats and I'm gonna wear one and then people are gonna be like, ⁓ my God, I love the Oklahoma City Thunder too. And then I'm gonna be like, can I talk to you about architecture? And they're like, no, I wanted to talk about basketball. I'm like, now we're gonna talk about architecture.
Katie Cashin: Secrets. All wrong.
Jeff Wu: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Katie Cashin: You
Jeff Wu: No, no, no. I can design you a house that has a hoop inside of it. Yes. Design happy. Design happy. Yeah.
Katie Cashin: There's the bridge. There's the bridge. Well, here's where I, the piece that I have though is I know nothing about sports. So I'll get the hats. I will wear them and they'll be like, I wanna talk about football. And I'll be like, I can't actually, but I can talk about. downsizing and a professional that can help you or remodeling and I'll be like, I actually can't have that conversation with you, but I could. ⁓ Jeff, thanks so much for joining us, for ⁓ being t-shirt ready, for being shirt ready, ⁓ and for all of the insights. Love it. This was a great conversation.
Jeff Wu: Thank you. Yeah. I have a quick question. Do you guys do this once a month? It's like all day or like how, what does that look like? Cause I'm, I'm trying to be better with creating content as well.
TJ Monahan: Secret tips on the air? Yeah. Yes. The answer is yes. We do it once a month. And so we batch record. I'm a cartoon character and I wear the same exact thing every day. So I've worn this shirt, not this exact shirt, but one of these shirts that I have. Katie gets fancy once in a while. She's like, I'm going to do an outfit change.
Katie Cashin: behind the scenes.
Jeff Wu: Okay.
Katie Cashin: Yeah. Fancy. I'm getting less fancy as we go. I'm getting less fancy as we go. Now I'm like, yeah.
TJ Monahan: Now she's phoning it in is what she's saying. The last episode we recorded, we didn't have an outline. She doesn't care about the outfit changes anymore. Just like we're on, it's just autopilot.
Katie Cashin: No. It's improv.
Jeff Wu: So I have my shirt right here. This is for my podcast. I wear this, be better than yesterday. Because it's about personal development. ⁓ So that's what I've been, and I think that your clothing can be anchors for either the positive vibes or the things that you're trying to do. And like TJ, like you said, don't think about it. You're just wearing the same thing.
TJ Monahan: Gosh, come on, look at that.
Jeff Wu: every day and yet people are consuming whether you know it or not. They're consuming it.
Katie Cashin: I love it. Consistency. What? Merch. Sylvia, merch. We need merch. I can't wait to see what our merch says. It'll be, it might be positive, but it's going to be positively ridiculous. ⁓
TJ Monahan: Yeah, but see what a missed opportunity. See, Katie, merch. After we hang up, we're getting... ⁓ my gosh.
Jeff Wu: Would it be a little, a little slang, a little bit snarkiness to it or no. Okay.
TJ Monahan: ⁓ my gosh. don't... Like, there'll be a real version that we share with people and then there'll be our own nonsense version. ⁓ Goodness. Well, Jeff.
Katie Cashin: I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. ⁓ not so sure about that. Okay. All right. Well.
TJ Monahan: Again, look, I appreciate your friendship and I'm so glad that I came to that networking meeting originally. ⁓ so I really value the friendship that we've built. thank you for that. And thank you for taking the time to be here. It's an important conversation for us to have here and for people to think about. And I didn't appreciate how much nuance ⁓ was in it. So thank you for sharing it with us.
Jeff Wu: ⁓ people, ⁓ don't realize like one third of the homes are paid off in, the country. So that's like unknown. And then the other thing too, is, a lot of the data that's out there is incorrect because national association realtors is polling people every year who bought a house. They sold the house and they bought a house. They're not polling people who sold, but didn't buy. So, ⁓ there's a huge population out there.
Katie Cashin: Hmm.
Jeff Wu: And this year, average first time home buyer is 40 years old. And the people who have the power to take action are anywhere from 49 to like 79. And that's where the movers and shakers are. And they have all kinds of their own unique issues and challenges and circumstances. So it really pays to be educated and be compassionate to those needs.
TJ Monahan: Awesome.
Katie Cashin: Thank you for educating us. ⁓ This is great. Wonderful. Okay. Well, once again, TJ, we did it. We did it. Okay. Till next time, we will see you then. Bye.
TJ Monahan: We did it. We'll see you then.
