Michael Ammar

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You know, another time I had what I thought was a good idea.
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I was going to put a card, the same card, on every airport ceiling and then any magician that flies can force that card, you know, and make it disappear and say, okay, it's already at the airport.
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You know, on about the seventh ceiling, it was in Wichita.
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Roger Klaus is taking me to the airport, even though we were in a rush.
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Look, I got to do this.
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I don't know when I'm going to be back here.
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So I need to put a card on this ceiling.
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And Roger said well, don't do it here.
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There was a little group of four security guards, roger, these guys love this trick.
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And so I go ahead and I put the card on the ceiling.
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But these guys talk to each other and one of them walks over and says well, hey, what is that?
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You know?
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Well, that's the four spades.
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You know how long does that stay up there?
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Oh well, it never comes down, which is what I say to Laban.
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Well, it never comes down, he goes, it never comes down, never comes down.
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He goes, wait right here, and he goes, and he makes a phone call and he comes back.
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He goes, wait right here, and he goes and he makes a phone call and he comes back and he says okay, you're under arrest for defacing public property.
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Welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks.
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We're in one of the rare situations where we're actually in the studio recording today.
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So normally we do these over the internet, but today the actual guest is in the studio, so I'm very excited.
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Now, of course, you're going to have seen the name at this point.
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You're going to know who this person is, but I have to give you the introduction anyway.
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So today's guest has had a profound impact on the world of magic.
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In 1982 he won the gold medal in close-up magic at the FISM World Championships.
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Throughout his career he's made numerous television appearances, including performances on the Tonight Show and Late Night with David Letterman.
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He's also graced the stages worldwide, from the Magic Castle in Hollywood to Universal Studios.
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His Easy to Master series has impacted countless magicians and his seminal book, the Magic of Michael Amar is considered an essential read in magic literature and I'm guessing lots of people have had that signed over the past couple of weeks.
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His accolades include multiple awards from the Academy of Magical Arts, such as Close-Up Magician of the Year, lecturer of the Year and Parlour Magician of the Year.
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In 1999, magic Magazine recognised him as one of the most influential magicians of the 20th century.
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He is currently at the time of recording, right now on a UK lecture tour which I had the opportunity to see the other day and hopefully this will be going out on the Monday, so if you haven't had a chance to see him, make sure you go and see him over the the end of the tour.
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Of course it is the wonderful michael ammar.
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How are you, michael?
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I'm fine jamie, nice to be with you I'm very excited to be with you.
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Thank, you we've already had some stories.
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We were just talking a second ago about some of the incredible things that you've had to do.
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So how have you found the tour so far over here?
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Well, it's been really heartwarming to see the reaction that people are having to the lecture.
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You know this is day 21, and this is the 21st event in 21 days, so it was rather you know it's a rather dense tour.
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Hannah is with me and doing all the driving and it would really really be difficult to do a tour like this without someone, you know, really there with me and you know, and that really just makes it possible for me to, you know, during the break, to pay attention to people, you know, to take photos and sign things and sort of have to say, well, look, you know I got to.
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You know be back at the table and you know, trying to sell something, and it just makes it better, I think, for everybody, that I have all that time to spend just with the people attending.
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You know, and you know I love it with the photos, because sometimes these guys show me those photos 30 years later.
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You know, on this particular tour, one guy said you were here 31 years ago and I'll tell you how.
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I know that.
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Here's that photo and you see, that young man that I'm with this is him right here and he's got a young son of his own now, you know, and he's all grown up and it's just really, you know, it's just interesting to see the years go by and the photos are, you know, a good reminder of it, because, you know, a lot of times I don't have a chance to take the photos, so it's nice to see them.
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Yeah well, we were talking about your book earlier and just how many things you've had to sign.
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So I wonder how many signatures you've put across over the past few weeks.
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Well, you know, if somebody's going to carry that big book to the lecture, you know I'm going to sign it.
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You know it's like a two-kilo thing to lug around, so yeah, it's always a pleasure thing to lug around.
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So yeah, it's always a pleasure.
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You know, I leaf through it, you know, just to make sure it's been read.
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You know, and every now and then it's really cool because guys have all these little post-it notes, you know, marking different pages, and it's nice.
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But every now and then one looks kind of pristine and I said, you know you really ought to read some of this stuff, you know um, but that's just a good way to to know if somebody's really spent time with the book or not over the years well, I think lots of people are going to be playing michael amar bingo with this um and trying to work out what's going to be in your ultimate list.
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I'm guessing a lot of people will be listening to this when they're walking or driving and when they think of you.
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I mean Peter said it earlier on, because Peter knows what your list is and he said if there was a list of tricks, these are the ones that I think you would have put in.
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So I wonder if everyone listening now will have those tricks in there.
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I wonder if they're going to hit the mark If they can guess what the signature effects are.
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Yeah, after you've lived with these things for a number of decades, people do kind of associate one trick or another with you, so it's very possible that they've they've guessed what this would be yeah, well, I think we should get into it.
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So if this is your first time listening, the idea is that we're about to maroon michael on his very own desert island.
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When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks.
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Banish one thing, take one book and one non-magic item, particulars, who's there, how many animals are there, how big the island island is, all of that we do not mind.
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It's in Michael's own imagination.
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So, with that being said, let's find out what you put in your first position.
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Oh, interesting.
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Well, I would take the cups and balls.
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You know, that really is an effect that you can do a lot of different things with.
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Over the years I've learned many different routines, you know, and it's one of the effects that you know.
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When I was spending time with the professor, you know, one of the things that he really wanted to see was not just somebody wanting to learn his routine.
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You know, for 50 years all people wanted to do is just all I just hope to get be able to do your routine and um, and advice that I'd heard him give many magicians was study the classics, you know, and figure out what makes them work and then figure out what you would want to do with those things which, in those days, the classics were the diverting cups and balls routine, the diverting blinking rings routine, that sort of thing.
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And I didn't want to make it seem like I just wanted to learn his routine because I didn't need to.
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You know, have him help me learn.
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His routine had been in print for, you know, 40 years and and um, but I did at one point.
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You know, it's not like he took students and things like that at his age, you know, if you were friends and you lived in that area, you'd come to the castle every night and he'd be there and you'd spend a lot of time just talking about magic.
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But at one point I did say you know, I'd like to perform your routine for you, simply so that I can discuss what I learned from learning your routine.
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And you know, if you're familiar with his routine, he starts by handing out the balls and handing out the cups and that sort of thing.
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And and after performing, I said well, you know, for myself, I think maybe I can produce those three balls, so I can be three effects into it before I even start bringing the cups into it.
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And and you know, there's a sequence where the cups stack and things happen.
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But that sort of thing didn't fool me, even before I knew the effect.
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So I said I don't think I'll do any stacking things.
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You know, maybe I can load the cups along the way so that it's not always happening right there at the end and that sort of thing.
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And so that's the reason my cups and balls routine is completely different than his is, simply because, you know, I just wanted to show him that I learned something from learning his routine and that I applied myself to, you know, figuring out what I wanted to do with that same thing.
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So, you know, I learned Pop Krieger's routine, I learned the Di Vernon routine and I have my own routine.
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And in the lecture there's, you know, a routine where the spectator performs the cups and balls and is fooled as he's doing it.
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So it's just the kind of thing that if you had a lot of time alone you could play with it in a lot of different ways.
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And David Williamson has a two-cup routine, and so there's just lots of possibilities with the cups, and so that would be one of the things that I knew, that I know I could do a lot of stuff with.
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Well, I'm glad that you mentioned it.
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So one thing that I noticed about your cups and balls from watching the lecture the other day was normally with the cups and balls it's the magician doing the magic and if there is a challenge from the spectator or the spectator taking part, they're normally guessing which cup it's under.
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What I really liked about the one that you lectured the other day in particular, the spectator was doing everything.
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So even from the beginning stage where you get them to mix them up and then they lift up that middle cup, it was such a nice approach to see all of the focus on the spectator.
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Yeah, the cups is very much of a watch me effect and it was just an interesting challenge to say, well, you know what if you had nothing to do with it?
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But genuinely, the spectator is performing and he's not looking silly, he's actually looking like the magician.
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You know, there are certain effects that you know.
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The professor made the point that some things like that well, which cup is it?
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In that sort of thing the spectator is always going to be wrong.
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And how are you going to do that and still be a nice guy?
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Things like the three-card Monty, you know, says you have to really be careful with something like that, because in that effect, they are always wrong.
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And how are you going to do that and still be a nice guy is part of the challenge, you know, and he had kind of approaches that you know, accomplished that and you know it's like well, you saw me move it here, right?
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No, no, it's over here, hell.
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No, I'm just explaining how it's done and so they're wrong.
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But hey, you're a nice guy, you know, and the way you go about it.
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Yeah, well, I think it's a great opening gambit, but let's move on to number two.
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So what did you put in your second spot?
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Well, I think I would do card on ceiling.
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You know, if there was a ceiling on a desert island, you know, I don't know if it'd be card on, you know, palm leaf, but um, you know, that's a very memorable effect.
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That's one that one of the rare effects that actually gets better as time goes by.
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Most effects peak the moment they see it and then it kind of tapers off unless you've made it very memorable in some way, like it's a good idea to if you can somehow alter something magically and give it to them in this permanently altered state.
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Now, now they have a way of, you know, retaining the memory of that.
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And you know, the card on ceiling is one of those rare effects that could be that can last 20 years Sometimes.
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You know, one of my good memories is you know, steve Wozniak, the guy that actually invented the Apple computer, is an amateur magician that loves magic, and so back in the 90s I was at his home, you know, two or three times maybe to perform for him and his guests, and on the first occasion I asked him, I said you know, I do this trick where a card appears on the ceiling.
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Would it be okay?
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I mean, you have such a beautiful home, would it be okay if I put a card on your ceiling?
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And he said, oh, I insist, I insist.
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And so I put the card on his ceiling and it was maybe four years before I came back and as I'm walking in I'm saying, wouldn't it be so cool if he still got this card on the ceiling?
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And I went in and he had taken a picture frame and put it around the card on the ceiling and oh, that's great, he goes.
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It's the best conversation piece in my house is that card on the ceiling.
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So you know, there are times when you know it just.
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It actually gets better as time goes by.
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I mean people actually, you know people are very poor recording devices.
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You know, memory is a very malleable thing and that becomes part of the fun of performing is trying to help sculpt that memory so that when they reflect back on it there's really no possible way to really get to how it really happened in certain presentations.
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And the card on the ceiling is one of those things where you know it's just.
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You know, by the time a couple of years goes by, it's like I was just thinking of a card and the next thing, you know, I looked up and the card's on the ceiling and somehow it's got my name on it, you know.
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And so it's really kind of custom made for, you know, people to kind of participate with their imagination.
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You know, and I feel that way a lot of times with magic, and sometimes let an audience know.
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Look, you know, we're going to be collaborators this evening in an effort to create, you know, a special, memorable experience.
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So we'll be working together to create that memorable experience.
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And you know there was an interesting book called Understanding Comics that was written by Scott McCloud and he makes the point that in a comic book, you know, the interesting part in the comic book isn't in the individual panels.
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You know, it's in between those panels, what they call the gutter between those panels.
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And he says that's the place where the reader is a co-creator of that story.
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And a good author and a good illustrator know the certain kind of transition between panels to where the reader is a collaborator in the creation of that story.
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And that's why people who read the comic first always like the comic book better than the movie.
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You know it's because the movie tries to show you everything movie tries to show you everything, whereas the comic, you know, is a collaboration between the author and the artist and the reader.
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And you know that's why I try to kind of leave certain places, you know, certain invitations for them to think for just a couple of seconds.
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Okay now, what's really going to come out of that cup?
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Or what really happens when he kind of taps it with the wand or casts a shadow over it or something like that, what does that mean?
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And whatever they're imagining is always going to be better than what's really happening.
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So it's nice to give them the opportunity to be a collaborator in the experience.
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Yeah, and just before we started talking, you mentioned that you've done this in some pretty incredible places.
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But I've also done it at the Louvre, at the Kremlin, at the you know little corner of the Vatican, you know, not on a piece of art, but you know kind of a courtyard, very high ceiling.
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Although, you know, when you're in the Sistine Chapel it's easy to think, when you're in the Sistine Chapel it's easy to think, man, if I could just get it in the right hand of God, that would be so cool, you know, have God palming the ace of spades or something.
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But yeah, there are times and places.
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The Louvre was interesting because it was such a high ceiling.
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There were several magicians there at the time and they started taking pictures of the cart on the ceiling because it was, you know, just an interesting high ceiling.
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And as they were taking those pictures, a group of Japanese tourists happened to come in and so they noticed they're taking pictures of this thing on the ceiling and so they started taking pictures of this cart on the ceiling, which we thought was hilarious, you know, because otherwise they never would have noticed it, you know.
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But we go on and tour the Louvre and we come back out about three hours later and there was just enough overlap of tourists to where, when we came out.
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Three hours later there's still people aware of it and were taking pictures of it, and it stayed there for several years, from what I understand, clearly past the time when they knew that it was there but clearly decided to leave it.
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And you know, another time I had what I thought was a good idea.
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I was going to put a card, the same card, on every airport ceiling that I was in, and even to the point where I would maybe run an ad in Genie and tell magicians okay, the four of spades is on these airport ceilings.
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If you live near an airport, please go to that airport and put a four of spades on it and we'll keep a list of airports that have that card.
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And then any magician that flies can force that card, you know, and make it disappear and say, okay, it's already at the airport.
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And you know, is that going to be your final destination?
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You're going on to Chicago?
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Okay, I'll send it to Chicago too.
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It'll be in this baggage claim.
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And but you know, on about the seventh ceiling, it was in Wichita.
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I just filmed something for Joe Stevens and Roger Klaus has taken me to the airport and even though we were in a rush, look, I got to do that.
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I don't know when I'm going to be back here, so I need to put a card on this ceiling, and that's the way I looked at.
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So I need to put a card on this ceiling and that's the way I looked at it.
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I need to put a card on this ceiling.
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And Roger said well, don't do it here.
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There was a little group of four security guards over in the corner talking, and I was so naive in those days, roger, these guys love this trick, and so I go ahead and I put the card on the ceiling.
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But these guys talk to each other and one of them walks over and says well, hey, what is that?
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Well, that's the four spades.
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How long does that stay up there?
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Well, it never comes down, which is what I say to Lavin.
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Well, it never comes down.
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He goes, it Never comes down, never comes down.
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He goes, wait right here, and he goes and he makes a phone call and he comes back and he says okay, you're under arrest for defacing public property.
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And I just couldn't believe it.
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It's just like wait, you don't understand.
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People actually pay me to do this, you know, but he starts reading me.
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Do this, you know, but he starts reading me.
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My rights, you know.
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Okay, you have the right to remain silent.
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You have the right to and Roger Klaus interrupts me.
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He said wait a minute.
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Wait a minute.
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What if we take the car down?
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And the guy goes hey, if you take the car down, it's no problem.
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And he goes okay, he's got to catch a plane, but if you let him go, I promise we'll take the car down.
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And for 20 years, 30 years, roger, you know, really made me believe that this was, you know, a huge obligation.
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They had to build a scaffolding to get to the ceiling.
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Three hours were gathering materials to take this down.
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But eventually I ran into a guy who was there, you know, and he went.
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Oh, hey, you know what.
00:24:00.422 --> 00:24:06.704
I was with Roger and you at the Wichita Airport when you almost got arrested oh, you're kidding.
00:24:06.704 --> 00:24:16.246
Oh, my gosh, you know, I'm so sorry for all the trouble it caused and he goes what do you mean?
00:24:16.246 --> 00:24:21.972
Well, roger told me it took three hours to get that car down.
00:24:21.972 --> 00:24:29.627
No, no, these guys had a long pole to change the light bulbs with, you know, and they just got the pole and knocked it down.
00:24:29.627 --> 00:24:30.542
It took two minutes.
00:24:30.542 --> 00:24:40.423
You know that, roger, you know every time I saw him you got to buy me lunch, you know, but as it turns out it was.
00:24:40.423 --> 00:24:51.011
You know it was a lesson to me, because that's when I started to say you can't just assume people want that card on their ceiling.
00:24:51.011 --> 00:24:57.012
That's when I started to ask people do you mind if I put a card on your ceiling?
00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:18.644
So, whilst Alakazam does not condone placing the four of spades on top of high structures, if you do happen to do that, someone, please start a little forum so that we know where all of those four of spades are, because, uh, yeah, we could carry on your legacy then and see, uh, how many arrests we can have in our industry.
00:25:18.644 --> 00:25:20.448
But that leads us to three.
00:25:20.448 --> 00:25:22.111
So what did you put in your third spot?
00:25:22.652 --> 00:25:28.797
Well, you know I love doing the coins through silk.
00:25:28.797 --> 00:25:29.740
You know it's.
00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:45.173
You know I've done it enough to where I do it without even thinking and it's really smoothed out to flow from, you know, one coin to the next in a really simple way.
00:25:45.173 --> 00:25:50.731
And it's kind of deceptive and a lecture because it looks so simple.
00:25:50.731 --> 00:26:07.915
But it's a good thing to cover in workshops and things like that because you really have to kind of learn how the scarf moves and work with the scarf and have your justification for handling it in a certain way.
00:26:07.915 --> 00:26:23.329
And it progresses in an interesting three-phase way the first coin comes out the middle, the second coin they pick which coin and the third coin the spectatorators holding it in their hands.
00:26:23.329 --> 00:26:33.883
So it it just has a nice theatrical progression to it and you know I've learned to use body language that kind of plays it up really big.
00:26:33.883 --> 00:26:38.287
You know I can do it for 100, 150 people.
00:26:38.386 --> 00:26:53.771
Just, you know, with the right body language which you know I think is, you know, sleight of hand really is more about body language than anything else.
00:26:53.771 --> 00:27:00.662
You know it's not, you're not saying, okay, there's a coin in this hand, but now the coin is in this hand and it's not in this hand.
00:27:00.662 --> 00:27:10.695
You know, and it's all body language that's indicating, you know, just from a shift of energy and focus.
00:27:10.695 --> 00:27:25.997
And I'm just surprised that more people don't really emphasize just how important body language is in the performance of any sleight of hand and any performance in general.
00:27:25.997 --> 00:27:34.535
In fact, I mean, as you start to say, well, I want to learn more about nonverbal communication and body language.
00:27:34.535 --> 00:27:47.294
You realize that, you know, people trust body language more than they trust your words and they interpret body language without than they trust your words and they interpret body language without even realizing that's what they're doing.
00:27:47.294 --> 00:28:04.184
I'm reading their body language and they know you can script your words, that you're speaking, but they never suspect that you would script what your body is saying, never suspect that you would script what your body is saying.
00:28:04.184 --> 00:28:21.310
And if you're familiar with Anthony Robbins, the motivational speaker, he's developed several programs over the years, but his original program back in the 80s was based on physiology and affecting how you feel by the way you move.
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:48.109
So if you script the right body language, you actually affect your own feelings of confidence and poise and openness and fairness and people make conclusions about those things before you even have a chance to say something as soon as you're in sight, they're making conclusions you know about.
00:28:48.109 --> 00:28:50.204
You know if you're happy to be there.
00:28:50.204 --> 00:28:53.720
If you're, you know all sorts of things.
00:28:53.720 --> 00:29:16.334
So to be aware of that on a larger sense is a valuable thing for any performer is to you know, be aware of what your body is saying and to script that as carefully as you would script your words.
00:29:16.334 --> 00:29:45.487
You know as a performer and that kind of comes through in the performance of the coins through silk, because there's just ways to really play that big with very open arms and open palms and that sort of things, whereas I have friends that only do it in restaurants with just little body turns for two people at a table and it's just different.
00:29:45.487 --> 00:29:56.940
It's interesting how different that effect can play just based on the body language that you use in any given performance arena.
00:29:58.682 --> 00:30:06.795
Yeah, I think that this is one of the tricks that, obviously, if anyone is playing Amar Bingo, I think it would be on everyone else's list.
00:30:06.795 --> 00:30:09.028
But what was the genesis of this?
00:30:09.028 --> 00:30:10.645
So where did this come from?
00:30:11.208 --> 00:30:15.586
Oh yeah, you know there's an effect called expansion of texture.
00:30:15.586 --> 00:30:36.780
That's done with a handkerchief, where they're holding a coin that's in the handkerchief and they're holding the other end of the handkerchief without realizing there's a coin hidden inside there and you make that coin disappear as you slap the handkerchief and that other coin kind of drops in and clicks against the other coin.
00:30:36.780 --> 00:30:43.374
And at the time I was just thinking, you know, I wonder if you could do that with a scarf that you could see through.
00:30:43.374 --> 00:31:02.040
And so I was playing with it and pretty soon realized, you know, you can even make it look like a coin's in there when it's not, you know, and that's when I realized, well, you know what.
00:31:02.040 --> 00:31:16.729
You know, maybe there's a way to use that property on a really sheer scarf to create an interesting sequence of penetrations.
00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:33.018
And you know, originally it was going to be a four coin thing, but you know, getting that progression for four in a really nice theatrical way, you know, it just made sense.
00:31:33.018 --> 00:31:55.656
Now, three, three, know, I know I think Chris Powers does a version where he uses, you know, a fourth coin and is able to make it look really, you know, amazing in the way that that fourth coin kind of comes into play.
00:31:55.656 --> 00:32:04.334
But you know I just like using three because now I get to do that really open.
00:32:04.334 --> 00:32:06.646
I'm not hiding anything.
00:32:06.646 --> 00:32:13.712
You're aware of everything, you know where all the coins are at every point and that sort of thing.
00:32:13.712 --> 00:32:25.476
So yeah, it came about from originally working on expansion of texture, which was from Stars of Magic back in the day.
00:32:25.476 --> 00:32:28.567
Wonderful book, stars of Magic.
00:32:29.221 --> 00:32:35.193
Well, I think it's a real lesson in taking something that would normally be a hindrance, something that's see-through.
00:32:35.193 --> 00:32:50.780
Certainly when you see coins through, for example, table, it's the fact that you can't see through the table is aiding the method yeah whereas with yours, you're using the fact that you can see through it as part of the method as the method.
00:32:50.862 --> 00:32:57.000
Yes, but I love the moment where it untwells I used to say now you know the coin is inside the scarf.
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:10.247
And then, without going into much detail, um you, if the coins are cold, sometimes the spectator might say, oh no, when I would put it in their hands, oh no, the coin's in my hand.
00:33:10.247 --> 00:33:14.125
That was a lesson to me.
00:33:14.125 --> 00:33:17.951
I said, okay, I won't say it that way anymore.
00:33:17.951 --> 00:33:41.633
What I'll say is okay, I'm going to put the coin into your hand, hang on to it, and that way, if they feel the coin, they have no need to announce it because I just told everybody it may mean something different to everybody else.
00:33:41.673 --> 00:33:53.626
One of those things from experience you learn to cover your tracks in ways that make sure that there's no need for the spectator to speak up.
00:33:53.626 --> 00:34:02.707
It's interesting the misconceptions that people make about being a professional.
00:34:02.707 --> 00:34:07.511
You know they assume as a pro you don't make mistakes anymore.
00:34:07.511 --> 00:34:11.666
You know, but you do.
00:34:11.666 --> 00:34:13.110
You do make mistakes.
00:34:13.110 --> 00:34:24.309
You just learn to go with it and to resolve it in interesting ways or how to prevent that from being a real problem.
00:34:25.661 --> 00:34:29.070
But the other thing they say, yeah, how do you handle hecklers?
00:34:29.070 --> 00:34:45.610
You know, as somebody who's just performing socially and casually, it's easy to have somebody want to interrupt the performance and kind of comment or say, well, hey, let me shuffle those cards, you know, or something like that.
00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:56.208
But you know, the more you charge and you know the more you manage your own attitude, you don't get hecklers.
00:34:56.208 --> 00:34:57.425
People want to see what happens.
00:34:57.425 --> 00:35:03.313
And again that kind of goes back to advice from the professor.
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:06.429
You know he said never forget what Nate Lapjick said.
00:35:06.429 --> 00:35:11.572
You know he says they don't mind being fooled by a magician.
00:35:11.572 --> 00:35:30.876
But no, they don't mind being fooled by a gentleman is the thing you know which tells you if you have an attitude as you perform, tells you, if you have an attitude as you perform, you know you can kind of invite people to, you know interrupt, or you know, have a comment or something like that.
00:35:30.876 --> 00:35:39.644
But if you perform with the right attitude, you know a good gifting sort of attitude, in a gentlemanly way.
00:35:39.644 --> 00:35:43.992
You know why would they interrupt and why would they say anything.
00:35:43.992 --> 00:35:44.900
So it's it's.
00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:48.608
You know I haven't had what you would call a heckler.
00:35:48.608 --> 00:35:51.534
I don't even remember the last time.
00:35:52.181 --> 00:35:58.001
You know that that interfered with what I was doing well, I think that's a great choice in that number three.
00:35:58.001 --> 00:35:59.043
So let's go to number four.
00:35:59.043 --> 00:36:00.449
So what was in your fourth spot?
00:36:01.552 --> 00:36:04.981
uh, well, I love doing shadow coins.
00:36:04.981 --> 00:36:20.972
You know, which is an effect where you have four coins and you really just kind of cast a shadow over those coins without touching them, and coins travel from one spot to another in a really magical sort of way.
00:36:20.972 --> 00:36:32.391
And you know, there's just, again, there's ways of doing that to really make it seem like it's just magic.
00:36:32.391 --> 00:36:44.474
You know, you're just really just casting a shadow over coins and coins travel from one spot to another and you do it in a really convincing way.
00:36:44.474 --> 00:36:59.572
You kind of eliminate all the possible questions that they might have before you begin and again, you kind of figure out what questions they may have and you try to answer those questions before they think to bring them up.
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:10.929
Some people think I have five or six coins right, I give you my word, I'm only going to use what you're looking at right now and they think I have something sticky on my hands.
00:37:10.929 --> 00:37:12.606
You see, no, there's no sticky stuff.
00:37:12.606 --> 00:37:17.731
I think maybe I've got an extension kind of that comes out of my sleeve.
00:37:17.731 --> 00:37:19.327
But you see, I have no sleeves.
00:37:19.327 --> 00:37:25.391
And so now that you know what I'm not going to do, I'll show you what happens.
00:37:25.391 --> 00:37:46.552
And yeah, again, just with experience you learn what questions are going to come to people's minds and if you can answer those questions before they think to ask them, you know it's a lot smoother selling what were your inspirations when you first started learning shadow coins?
00:37:48.157 --> 00:37:48.840
oh, you know what.
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:54.829
That's based on a David Roth matrix, you know.
00:37:54.829 --> 00:38:14.632
But he would do it at eye level, you know, on a table, and so consequently, he really kind of had to brush the table with his hands as he did it, because if you're sitting at the table with him you can see what's going on, unless you really are kind of hugging the table.
00:38:14.632 --> 00:38:43.273
But I used to do a lot of magic on the floor, you know, and I just learned that, you know, if I'm down here and you're up there, I can really, you know, kind of manage your perspective in a way that lets me cheat and in ways that make the effect seem impossible.
00:38:43.273 --> 00:39:00.545
And it was just kind of a slow discovery of realizing, you know, if you kind of force their perspective, there's things that you can do that make things look more magical, you know, and that was just the.
00:39:00.545 --> 00:39:10.889
It was just kind of being aware of what's going on and, and you know, when I'm here and they're there, yeah, other things are possible.
00:39:10.889 --> 00:39:13.367
You know, it's just how it came together.
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:18.791
Yeah, well, that's one of the ones that we get to learn tonight as well.
00:39:19.543 --> 00:39:28.429
Yeah, I don't often get a chance to to do it, but we'll have a situation tonight where we'll be able to give the the right perspective, right view of it.
00:39:28.429 --> 00:39:44.233
But, um, you know, I just did it so many times on so many floors and eventually, you know, I got shadow coin knees and I had to have people help me up and and so I don't do it as often as I used to.
00:39:44.233 --> 00:39:53.813
But the illusion is really nice if you get the right perspective.
00:39:54.275 --> 00:39:55.135
Yeah, amazing.
00:39:55.135 --> 00:39:57.027
So that leads us to number five.
00:39:57.027 --> 00:39:58.204
So what was in your fifth spot?
00:39:59.461 --> 00:40:03.172
You know I like the bill switch.
00:40:03.172 --> 00:40:10.809
You know the mike koslowski hundred dollar bill switch, changing one to a hundred, just the.
00:40:10.809 --> 00:40:29.849
The technique I've always thought was just a really technological marvel, that in what seems to be just a simple folding a bill four times and unfolding the bill, some pretty amazing things happen.
00:40:29.849 --> 00:40:32.887
More happens than you would imagine.
00:40:32.887 --> 00:40:56.670
It's built into just the way you fold and unfold the bill and it always amazed me to do it and along the ways you know you figure out again how to eliminate things they may be thinking.
00:40:56.670 --> 00:41:01.088
You know the bill never leaves your sight, don't even blink, do this, do this.
00:41:01.088 --> 00:41:10.436
And you know, know, and you just learn ways to do it to where you don't have this real discrepancy of.
00:41:10.436 --> 00:41:14.646
You know, once you've changed a one to a hundred, why would you change a hundred back to a one?
00:41:14.646 --> 00:41:26.614
You know and but there's, there's ways to rationalize that and there's ways to do it where you really sometimes don't have to change it back.
00:41:31.061 --> 00:41:33.911
It's a bit of a challenge with plastic money.
00:41:33.911 --> 00:41:45.255
We still have paper money in the US and that really makes it a much more manageable thing.
00:41:45.255 --> 00:42:01.780
All the papers, all the bills are the same color, so you can delay the realization that it's a different bill until the bill is really too large for anything to have happened.
00:42:01.780 --> 00:42:03.202
But with different color bills, you know, for anything to have happened.
00:42:03.202 --> 00:42:06.465
But with different color bills, you know, they know fairly much right away.
00:42:06.465 --> 00:42:09.148
It's just different, done differently.
00:42:09.148 --> 00:42:27.693
Over here somebody I wish I could remember his name that told me that he does it with kind of monopoly money to change either monopoly money back into real money or the opposite.
00:42:27.693 --> 00:42:39.481
But in that way, oh, that's really good, because now during the difficult part you don't have money.
00:42:39.481 --> 00:42:43.751
That's kind of trying to expand and open up.
00:42:43.751 --> 00:42:56.327
But in the US, you know, I like to do the inside-out dollar, borrow a bill and turn it inside-out.
00:42:56.327 --> 00:43:05.907
You know it's such an amazing sight and I have a good experience with it.
00:43:05.929 --> 00:43:39.668
In 1999 in Richmond, virginia, at the show for Jim Cherry was a banker that I worked with for many years and now he's retired and he's um, you know he's a very, you know, experienced amateur and that some of these magicians may know, but at his dinners there was always interesting people, politicians, you know.
00:43:40.590 --> 00:43:52.594
At one event he was part of there were three governors of Virginia at the same event.
00:43:52.594 --> 00:44:06.492
It was like the first time these three governors had ever been together at the same event, but at one of those the Secretary of the Treasury was in the audience, the guy that signs the money.
00:44:06.492 --> 00:44:18.094
You know the signatures on the money, and I got to turn his dollar bill inside out, which was a great memory for me.
00:44:18.094 --> 00:44:28.967
It's also the day I discovered it's a federal offense to do that, but fortunately you can turn it back real quick.
00:44:28.967 --> 00:44:32.184
He even commented.
00:44:32.184 --> 00:44:38.130
He says yeah, maybe I want to have a conversation with the Secret Service about this.
00:44:38.130 --> 00:44:47.485
The only two things the Secret Service does in the US is protect the president and deal with currency crimes.
00:44:47.485 --> 00:45:00.851
Any counterfeiting money or any currency crimes is exclusively handled by the Secret Service, and he was quick to point that out, and so we had an interesting conversation about it.
00:45:01.059 --> 00:45:05.351
We're learning that you're nearly getting arrested a lot in your career through magic.
00:45:05.351 --> 00:45:09.992
I think the next book we need is Michael Amar's Ten Ways Not to Get Arrested with Magic.
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:13.349
Ten, you know, near punishable offenses.
00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:17.807
Great, so that leads us to number six.
00:45:17.807 --> 00:45:19.085
So what was in your sixth spot?
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:34.594
Well, I've been doing the built a lemon um for for many years and I've experimented with every possible method for having that bill appear inside of a lemon.
00:45:34.594 --> 00:45:42.893
I've made it appear in in oranges and kiwis and and all sorts of different things.
00:45:42.893 --> 00:46:05.556
But you know, there's something kind of iconic about a lemon and over the years, you know, I've developed a handling that really matches all the criteria that you know I aspire to in the creation of that effect.
00:46:05.556 --> 00:46:21.494
You know, there's ways to do it so that, you know, the money looks really kind of tightly rolled and you know, and that might lead some people to think, well, maybe you can just, you know, squish it in there real quick, or something like that.
00:46:21.494 --> 00:46:32.342
Well, maybe you can just squish it in there real quick, or something like that, you know.
00:46:32.342 --> 00:46:42.447
But you know, or they tear a corner off or they have the serial number, you know red, both of which you know.
00:46:42.447 --> 00:46:45.239
Certainly to tear the corner off of 100 makes no sense at all as a way of identifying a bill.
00:46:45.239 --> 00:47:00.646
But to do it with a marked bill, you know, and I don't say write your name across there, I get to say just put a mark on there that you'll definitely recognize Some people just put a little dot or draw a mustache, you know, on their happy face or something like that.
00:47:00.646 --> 00:47:02.650
But that's the way you would identify.
00:47:02.650 --> 00:47:09.349
Any piece of currency is just a little mark on there so that you'd know it.
00:47:09.349 --> 00:47:30.177
And when it appears inside the lemon, you know, with this one method, you know, particularly with plastic money, if you've folded it into quarters or eighths, you know, particularly with plastic money, if you've folded it into quarters or eighths, you know it really opens up naturally.
00:47:30.177 --> 00:47:33.282
And to do that in the building of lemon.
00:47:33.282 --> 00:47:41.815
So when you cut the lemon open and it's really opened up inside of there, it really looks impossible.
00:47:41.815 --> 00:47:44.739
Inside of there, it really looks impossible.
00:47:44.739 --> 00:47:52.889
It looks like it simply appeared inside the lemon and there's no way that something opened up like that could possibly have appeared inside that lemon.
00:47:52.889 --> 00:47:59.827
And particularly if it's a lemon, that they've been holding the whole show and that sort of thing.
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:13.128
And you know over the years, you know I eventually, you know one time Paul Harris was staying with me for a number of months when I was working at Caesar's Magical Empire.
00:48:13.128 --> 00:48:18.306
You know I was doing five or six shows a night, six nights a week, you know, for 18 months.
00:48:18.306 --> 00:48:32.632
So along the way you really had a chance to think about different ways of approaching this and, and one time, you know, positive boy, it sure would be nice if you had kind of a kicker.
00:48:32.632 --> 00:48:44.489
You know, everything is kind of built up to that moment in such a way that you know and I would say, but you know, I don't want to go on.
00:48:44.489 --> 00:48:56.222
You know, make such a nice complete circle that that's the first thing you do is hand out the lemon and the last thing you do, you know, this lemon comes out of one of the cups and there's, the money is inside that lemon.
00:48:56.222 --> 00:49:01.150
I don't want to do anything, you know, out of left field.
00:49:01.150 --> 00:49:19.889
You know, because that, you know, circle is so satisfying and Paul, being the kind of guy he was, you know, he said, well, maybe you could put the lemon back together or something like that.
00:49:19.889 --> 00:49:31.969
And it's like you know, I've been doing that, I've done this trick so many times and I don't think I ever would have thought put the lemon back together at the end.
00:49:31.969 --> 00:49:37.992
And so at Caesar's Magical Empire, you know, I got to try that idea out.
00:49:38.780 --> 00:49:56.409
And what's interesting about this magical empire is it's such a beautiful setting and such a beautiful stage and you come through these beautiful curtains, you know, to a performing area that's surrounded by these really wonderful giant golden dragons.
00:49:56.409 --> 00:50:12.594
You know, and naturally they assume when you exit through those curtains, you know there must be some kind of Siegfried and Roy level, you know, jacuzzi dressing room behind those curtains.
00:50:12.594 --> 00:50:13.715
But there's not.
00:50:13.715 --> 00:50:19.032
You have about two feet and there's a brick wall.
00:50:19.032 --> 00:50:29.304
So when you walk through the curtain and when you exit, you know you just kind of turn around and stand there while everybody walks out and it's.
00:50:30.913 --> 00:50:45.630
It was wonderful because you got to hear what people talked about after your performance and they're talking about it openly, like you're not there, and it was the best feedback.
00:50:45.630 --> 00:50:49.246
And you know, because I I really do want to know.
00:50:49.246 --> 00:50:51.471
Well, what did you like, what did you think?
00:50:51.471 --> 00:50:54.041
You know, how do you think certain things are possible?
00:50:54.041 --> 00:50:58.266
If I could, I'd interview every audience after the show.
00:50:58.407 --> 00:51:06.335
Just you know, because you know magic only happens in their minds, that's it.
00:51:06.335 --> 00:51:17.050
You know it's not about the techniques, it's not about the props, it only happens inside the mind of a spectator.
00:51:17.050 --> 00:51:23.393
And so the mind of the spectator, that's the final battleground.
00:51:23.393 --> 00:51:26.769
You know, what do they think, what do they notice, what do they care about?
00:51:26.769 --> 00:51:27.965
What don't they care about?
00:51:27.965 --> 00:51:42.813
You know how are they going to remember this when they look back on it, and so to hear their thoughts is really the best insight that you can get to.
00:51:43.795 --> 00:52:06.222
You know how you're doing, and what just stunned me was putting that lemon back together, in most cases basically nullified the bill to lemon, the money coming out of that lemon.
00:52:06.222 --> 00:52:16.601
Because now they're left with that lemon intact and the majority of people would say something like I got to tell you it really looked like he cut that lemon open.
00:52:16.601 --> 00:52:30.811
You know, and I was, I couldn't believe it, because I make such a big deal of cutting it open and taking it out and the money smells like lemon, you know.
00:52:30.811 --> 00:52:47.579
But by being left with that lemon intact, you know, the only thing that they could think was man.
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:57.030
It sure looked like he cut it open when he did that trick, you know, but that must have been an illusion.
00:52:57.030 --> 00:53:01.875
You know, did not expect that they would think that.
00:53:01.875 --> 00:53:16.606
You know, somehow we must have imagined that part where he cut the lemon open, and so I quit doing it for, you know, a number of years.
00:53:16.788 --> 00:53:22.382
And then it occurred to me well, what if they put the money back in the lemon before I put it back together.
00:53:22.382 --> 00:53:28.170
You know, okay, you know, still got your mark on it, right.
00:53:28.170 --> 00:53:30.052
Okay, fold it in half, fold it in half, fold it up.
00:53:30.052 --> 00:53:32.635
Now put it back inside the lemon, okay.
00:53:32.635 --> 00:54:00.523
And then you take the two halves and you just kind of roll them together like this, and now the lemon's back together and you give it to them, and you know, and then I kind of act like the show is over, you know, and I gather my stuff and people start to laugh because the other guy's just holding the lemon and um, and you know, along the way I've asked them, you know, I found out their name and where they live.
00:54:00.523 --> 00:54:01.565
Oh, you live in New York.
00:54:01.565 --> 00:54:03.367
Well, welcome to Las Vegas, and all this.
00:54:04.447 --> 00:54:12.317
And finally I looked to the guy and, oh, I'll tell you what I would do.
00:54:12.317 --> 00:54:18.431
I'd wait till I got back to New York, you know, to cut that lemon open.
00:54:18.431 --> 00:54:29.829
That way you can bring your friends over and you cut it open and make an even better story, or you can cut it open now, whichever you prefer.
00:54:29.829 --> 00:54:31.166
But now you have a choice.
00:54:31.166 --> 00:54:33.585
Do you want to cut it open now?
00:54:33.585 --> 00:54:39.447
Do you want the magic to go with you and experience it with your friends later on.
00:54:39.447 --> 00:54:44.909
It's just an interesting position to put them in.
00:54:44.909 --> 00:54:47.864
Do I want to, you know?
00:54:47.965 --> 00:55:26.159
And most of the time, cut it open now, you know, which is really the perfect reaction, because, you know, that's just like saying, even though I watched everything you did and I saw the two pieces go back together, the money in there, I cannot believe that the money is in this lemon that you've just given me, you know, and so, okay, we can cut it open now, and you let them cut it open now and the money's inside back inside the lemon.
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:37.507
But it's just a way of having them kind of acknowledge that it can't possibly be back inside this lemon.
00:55:37.507 --> 00:55:40.188
And yet, you know, there it is.
00:55:40.188 --> 00:55:45.512
And so it's just a really, you know, satisfying ending.
00:55:45.512 --> 00:55:48.889
Every now and then somebody says you know what, I'll take it home.
00:55:48.889 --> 00:55:56.434
And at that point, you know, I just ask the audience are we okay with that?
00:55:58.083 --> 00:56:18.226
You know, if the magic doesn't end right here, and usually the audience really said, nah, you better cut it open, you know, only on a couple of occasions did the guy actually say, no, I'm taking it with me, you know, and of course, the money's in there when they go home and they cut it open.
00:56:18.226 --> 00:56:29.824
You know, I just tell them look, when you cut the lemon, okay, don't go straight through, right?
00:56:29.824 --> 00:56:34.268
You know you really have to cut it like it's got a core.
00:56:34.268 --> 00:56:37.083
Cut it kind of in a circle, right, don't go straight through.
00:56:37.083 --> 00:56:40.456
You know there'll be two 50s in there.
00:56:40.456 --> 00:56:42.943
You know that's a different trick, you know.
00:56:43.083 --> 00:57:11.164
But if you're going to do it, just cut it carefully in a circle before you pull the halves apart, because you know you don't want to cut the money in half and um, but just the the nature of that effect and and how you can make it really matter to the performer and to the person doing it.
00:57:11.164 --> 00:57:23.681
You know, the worst advice I ever heard was you know, if you really squeeze the lemon when you cut it open, it'll make the money so soggy that they'll give it to you as a tip, which is not what I want.
00:57:23.681 --> 00:57:24.934
You know I don't want that guy.
00:57:24.934 --> 00:57:26.739
You know you might as well keep it.
00:57:26.739 --> 00:57:27.811
You know.
00:57:27.811 --> 00:57:36.739
So I actually do it in a way that their money is just moist, smells like a lemon, but they can put it right back in their pocket.
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:56.226
You know, and typically you know well, no, 99.99 times the person that offered that money is the happiest guy in the room.
00:57:56.226 --> 00:58:04.550
Later, and whenever I come back to do repeat performances, I got a friend that wants to be the guy you know.
00:58:04.550 --> 00:58:14.277
So you know, when you ask for 100, be sure to use this guy's $100 because he wants to be that guy and that's what you want.
00:58:14.277 --> 00:58:29.266
You want that guy who took a chance, you know, who took that wallet out of their pocket and, you know, offered to put their money on the table to see what happens.
00:58:29.266 --> 00:58:39.954
You want them to be the happiest person in the room because you want everybody else thinking you know, I should have been the guy that offered that $100,000,.
00:58:39.954 --> 00:58:48.336
You know you don't want the whole audience thinking well, you know that'll teach you, don't ever give a guy a $100 bill.
00:58:48.336 --> 00:58:49.418
That's doing a magic show.
00:58:49.418 --> 00:59:04.280
You genuinely want everybody in the audience, particularly the guy that volunteered that money, to be happy and to say next time I'm going to be the guy that does that.
00:59:04.570 --> 00:59:14.094
Yeah, well, I think that's a great choice and it kind of goes back to what you said earlier, earlier on, you mentioned about the comic book, how it's them reading in between the lines.
00:59:14.094 --> 00:59:21.800
So I think that's just an exact version of what you were saying them creating the story, creating the illusion in their own heads.
00:59:21.820 --> 00:59:23.762
Now, how could this possibly be so?
00:59:23.762 --> 00:59:43.804
And to give them that room, you know, to be a co-creator of the experience, is the ideal situation, you know.
00:59:43.804 --> 00:59:49.961
I think in a live performance that's what distinguishes, you know, people just watching television.
00:59:49.961 --> 00:59:52.577
You know this is something they experience.
00:59:52.577 --> 01:00:07.842
And back in the 80s there was a book called Megatrends the 10 trends influencing the future, and one of those megatrends was the high-tech, high-touch concept.
01:00:07.842 --> 01:00:19.184
And the more technology plays a role in our lives, the more value we'll have to personal hands-on experiences.
01:00:19.184 --> 01:00:33.724
And that's the hope that I have with the AI now is that AI is going to affect every facet of life.
01:00:33.724 --> 01:00:57.340
But maybe the idea of live magical experience will be one of those rare things that you know will actually retain its value, if not increase, in such a high-tech future, that thing that happens to them live.
01:00:57.340 --> 01:01:11.876
And so my son's just going to college for the first year and, boy, to imagine what's going to be a good job four years from now, it's a total guess.
01:01:11.876 --> 01:01:18.402
You know, the number one job now for people that graduate didn't even exist four years ago.
01:01:18.402 --> 01:01:24.804
So the idea of how do you prepare for the kind of future at this point?
01:01:24.804 --> 01:01:38.697
But it's nice to feel like you know, the live magical experience, the creation of astonishment, you know, is one.
01:01:38.697 --> 01:02:09.360
Those are intellectual delicacies that people don't experience very often, but when they do, they cherish it and we are one of the last sources for that and it's our job, you know, to create that in people's minds.
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:29.956
And you know, although I don't know, although it there actually has been some recent articles about how people experiencing magic, you know, experience these extra endorphins and there's this, a certain glow from the experience.
01:02:29.956 --> 01:02:49.882
There's actual now studies that have kind of supported that idea and I've always thought maybe that experience is connected to really important things in their imagination and their creative futures and things like that.
01:02:50.110 --> 01:02:54.010
You know, paul Harris had a great way of looking at it, as you can imagine, you know.
01:02:54.010 --> 01:02:59.563
He said you know, all children are astonished.
01:02:59.563 --> 01:03:06.382
Everything astonishes them, you know, and slowly they figure things out.
01:03:06.382 --> 01:03:16.025
You know they have a little box in their head that explains okay, that's not a tiny person in the screen, that's a television, you know, and that's not a.
01:03:16.025 --> 01:03:20.958
There's not a little band in that thing that you know, that's a radio.
01:03:20.958 --> 01:03:39.115
And slowly they figure everything out and eventually they have a box in their head that you know prevents them from having magical, astonishing experiences, and it's only when they run into magicians that they realize.
01:03:39.177 --> 01:03:51.443
You know, I don't have a box in my head for that, and that's why adults frequently say, boy, you know, my kids would love this.
01:03:51.443 --> 01:03:56.302
You know, that's because that's the last time that they experienced that kind of thing is when they were kids.
01:03:56.302 --> 01:04:02.262
You know, and I just point out, it's like no, no, actually you're the one that needs it.
01:04:02.262 --> 01:04:09.280
You're the one that you know that needs to be reminded what it feels like to not know how everything's done.
01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:16.054
You know, and it's um, but it's easy to think well, that's a child's experience.
01:04:16.054 --> 01:04:26.817
In a in a way it is, but that's why it's so valuable for you, as an adult, to have that experience.
01:04:27.358 --> 01:04:37.574
So if there are any parents listening to this whose child says that they want to be a magician, and you are panicking about it, don't worry about it All right, Because it's going to be the go to job in the future.
01:04:38.074 --> 01:04:39.277
I think Very possibly.
01:04:39.277 --> 01:04:55.498
Well, another perspective on that is children that have some reason to communicate to other people and to present things to other people, which you have to do to perform magic.
01:04:55.498 --> 01:04:58.219
It doesn't happen just for yourself.
01:04:58.219 --> 01:05:13.945
The children that do that when they're young, when they grow up, they're not afraid to stand in front of a group, they're not afraid to say hello and communicate, stand in front of a group, they're not afraid to say hello and communicate things in front of a group.
01:05:14.565 --> 01:05:29.039
You know, I feel like there's windows of opportunity for children to learn certain things, and before they're the age of six, you know, language comes naturally.
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:33.228
But after that window of opportunity closes.
01:05:33.228 --> 01:05:43.092
If they haven't learned those languages by the time they're teenagers, it's very difficult to pry that window open and to learn that new language.
01:05:43.092 --> 01:05:58.463
And it's possible that the same thing exists for communicating ideas to other people and to speak and present things to their friends and to their family.
01:05:58.463 --> 01:06:14.585
You know, they're so attached to screens these days that it's uncommon for them to need to communicate one-on-one or one before a group.
01:06:14.585 --> 01:06:28.980
And so those children that are able to do that while they think they're just having fun when they're young, I think, is entering into that window of opportunity before it closes.
01:06:28.980 --> 01:06:41.373
If they haven't done it by the time they're teenagers, it's possible that that becomes a very difficult concept for them as they grow into adults.
01:06:46.963 --> 01:06:49.898
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Check out now alakazamcouk cheers but that does lead us to the tail end of your eight.
01:07:45.097 --> 01:07:46.657
So we're on number seven.
01:07:46.657 --> 01:07:48.659
What did you put in your seventh spot?
01:07:50.001 --> 01:08:09.481
I've always liked the cannibal cards as a card effect and my reason for thinking that that really sustains itself is that was one of the tricks that I would do when cousins and relatives would get together for Christmas.
01:08:09.481 --> 01:08:20.841
Maybe that's the only time we'd get together during the year and that was the one effect that they would always those kids would always ask to see.
01:08:20.841 --> 01:08:23.317
You know, do the things with the cannibals.
01:08:23.317 --> 01:08:55.786
You know, and I've gone on to see a couple of those nieces and nephews get married and they've asked if I would perform that at their wedding, that simple trick with the cannibal kings, and so it's one that family and friends have kind of confirmed that it retains its interest, you know, over the years.
01:08:55.786 --> 01:09:17.412
So I have a feeling, you know, I more technically demanding and maybe demonstrate, you know, technical ability.
01:09:17.412 --> 01:09:22.376
You know something like rollover aces where you're timing in the shuffles and you find the four aces and then the four aces have the four royal flushes.
01:09:22.376 --> 01:09:30.163
You know I did that for a number of years as a close to a close-up set.
01:09:30.163 --> 01:09:39.639
I don't do it anymore because it's flat on the table and I don't often have a chance to do that for an audience where they can really see and understand what's happening.
01:09:39.689 --> 01:09:51.640
But it's a good television trick and you know it's one of the tricks, interestingly enough, that Di Vernon the professor did not like.
01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:55.640
You know, he just felt there was too many endings.
01:09:55.640 --> 01:10:05.085
You know, you find the aces and the deck is back in order and now you find the royal flushes and all that.
01:10:05.085 --> 01:10:07.091
He just felt it was too.
01:10:07.091 --> 01:10:16.097
You know, I remember one conversation about it and I don't understand why you don't like it.
01:10:16.097 --> 01:10:19.918
It just seems like, you know, I have a theatrical thing.
01:10:19.918 --> 01:10:33.716
You know, that kind of makes it interesting with the timing and it comes out in 26 seconds and then 26, 27, 28, 29, and now the deck's back in order, there's the aces and all this.
01:10:33.716 --> 01:10:47.079
And his complaint was that too many dingle routines had too many endings and he actually had a way of expressing it.
01:10:47.079 --> 01:11:12.867
He goes well, if I could climax as many times as a dingle routine, I'd be a happy man and I was just surprised that he had that perspective on it, but could appreciate his opinion at that point and I'd have to agree.
01:11:19.231 --> 01:11:57.878
But it's not on the list, maybe for that reason, although one of the other tricks that would be on the list if not crazy man's handcuffs, kind of a toss-up between Crazy Man's Handcuffs, the rubber band penetration, or JC's Super Closer is a card effect that can very much be of a watch me kind of a trick, but I turned it into something that the spectator performs and does all the kind of shuffling and cutting and shuffling and cutting and still arrives at this amazing ending.
01:11:57.878 --> 01:12:23.521
So probably tilt towards jc super closure as a final uh addition to the list over something like Crazy Man's Handcuffs, because again, crazy Man's Handcuffs is more or less of a watch-me trick, whereas JC Supercloser again has many climaxes and yet it's not a watch-me trick.
01:12:23.521 --> 01:12:28.561
I've turned it into an audience-performed effect.
01:12:28.561 --> 01:12:34.840
I present it as there's a trick that I've always wanted to see myself, an audience performed effect.
01:12:34.899 --> 01:12:35.340
I presented this.
01:12:35.340 --> 01:12:40.850
There's a trick that I've always wanted to see myself and if you'll come up and give me a hand here, I'll kind of get you started.
01:12:40.850 --> 01:12:46.578
But I'm going to sit in your seat and I'm going to watch you perform and I'll kind of tell you what to do here and there.
01:12:46.578 --> 01:13:04.942
But basically you're going to be doing the shuffling, you're going to be doing the cuttinguffling, you're going to be doing the cutting and it's going to be kind of you doing it and and for that reason I think um it it's probably got a spot on my list okay, so are we choosing that as your eighth one?
01:13:04.962 --> 01:13:09.315
then are we going for super closer as number eight either.
01:13:09.636 --> 01:13:15.912
Boy, I do have a, you know, a real affinity for what I call the elbow card.
01:13:15.912 --> 01:13:38.662
You know, if you've seen the effect where the spectator tears a corner off, they sign the torn card, then I sign the corner and then I turn the corner upside down and put it back onto the card and that upside down and it's genuinely back together.
01:13:38.662 --> 01:13:42.962
It's not like I have some magic stickum that creates the illusion.
01:13:42.962 --> 01:14:01.342
The card is genuinely back together and the sequence is that sequence they tear the card, they sign the torn card, I sign the corner and the corner goes back on the card and they get to keep that card as a souvenir.
01:14:01.342 --> 01:14:24.307
And that impossibly created thing that they get to keep falls into one of the categories that I I really like altering something magically and giving it to the spectator in this permanently altered state and therefore they have a way of really knowing and remembering exactly what happens.
01:14:24.307 --> 01:14:25.872
And the same thing with the bill switch.
01:14:25.872 --> 01:14:31.724
You know, when I turn the money inside out, I frequently give it to the spectator as a souvenir.
01:14:33.372 --> 01:14:37.421
And one time I saw a guy in an airport.
01:14:37.421 --> 01:14:40.534
He goes you're a magician, aren't you?
01:14:40.534 --> 01:14:42.310
Yeah, yeah, he goes.
01:14:42.310 --> 01:14:49.725
You were at the medical trade show in Atlanta in 1991.
01:14:49.725 --> 01:14:53.856
Wow, you had a great memory.
01:14:53.856 --> 01:14:54.840
And he goes, here's why.
01:14:54.840 --> 01:15:13.341
And he takes his wallet out and he shows me that inside out dollar bill, because you turned my dollar bill inside out and I've had it in my wallet for the last nine years and that's really what I'm looking for.
01:15:13.341 --> 01:15:20.882
And the fact and if I can do something like that, it becomes a choice.
01:15:22.770 --> 01:15:27.997
Yeah, it really seems like, just looking at your list, a lot of the tricks that you've picked.
01:15:27.997 --> 01:15:49.720
You've really picked things that are about the audience and it's about the spectator, and I know that at the end of your lecture as well, you made a comment about respecting the audience and not necessarily using them like a prop, but using them as people and giving them respect so that they respect magicians in the future as well.
01:15:49.720 --> 01:15:52.944
So I do think that your list really reflects that ethos.
01:15:53.210 --> 01:16:20.104
Yeah, people ask what's your favorite trick, and I have a hard time picking a favorite trick because it really has so much to do with the audience, with the situation that you're in, and there's times when just the context where an effect is performed, that makes it special.
01:16:20.104 --> 01:16:34.617
And so it's less about how I feel about one trick or another, but more about you know what kind of experience can you create and in what sort of context, and that's what really makes it special.
01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:56.617
And even when you mentioned earlier on, when you create magic, you're constantly thinking about how they are going to view it and the things that they're going to think about it, and how you can adapt the routine or the effect to play with their perception of how they're gonna think of it it's all.
01:16:57.639 --> 01:17:23.360
It's all about the final battleground you know, the mind of the spectator, and as soon as you really accept that as a reality, the more you you realize it's important to study their thought processes and how the mind works, as it is to study more techniques.
01:17:23.360 --> 01:17:38.136
If somebody tells me, hey, I have a new way to bring a card to the top of the deck, it's like, well, okay, you know there's a lot of ways to do that and it's nice to have another way.
01:17:38.136 --> 01:17:50.243
But if you tell me, you know, I have a way of making somebody care that you bring a card to the top of the deck, okay, now I'm interested.
01:17:50.671 --> 01:18:03.920
Now I'm interested because that's, that's the final battleground well, it's a great list, and it'll be interesting to see how many of you listening, uh, got all of those, or at least half, I should think.
01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:11.537
Now you, we've given you eight of these, so we've given you eight tricks to pick from, but for the last three items, you're only allowed one each.
01:18:11.537 --> 01:18:14.382
Okay, so we're going to go to the controversial one.
01:18:14.382 --> 01:18:17.457
So what is one thing that you would ban from the industry?
01:18:17.457 --> 01:18:21.332
If you banished it for forever, what's the one thing that would go for good?
01:18:22.193 --> 01:18:46.474
Yeah, anything in which the spectator basically becomes a prop in their show and leaves the stage regretting the fact that they came onto the stage, because if they feel that way, you can bet everybody else in the audience feels that way and tells themselves well, never go on stage with a magician, never, never, never go on stage with a magician.
01:18:46.474 --> 01:18:56.716
And things like that just whittle away the possibility for somebody genuinely respecting what magic can be about.
01:18:56.716 --> 01:19:04.337
And that's just in favor of making it a snowball that gets bigger for everybody.
01:19:04.337 --> 01:19:13.773
And professional campers always say, hey, always leave your campground cleaner than you found it, you know.
01:19:13.773 --> 01:19:17.934
Or gardeners say, always leave your soil more fertile than you found it.
01:19:17.934 --> 01:19:35.166
Anything that takes away from that and reduces the respect that people have for magic is really kind of unfair to the art and unfair to the spectators really.
01:19:36.149 --> 01:19:53.471
Yeah, I think it was you who mentioned the other day as well, the realization, when you're with a spectator, that this is someone's child, this is someone's sister, this is someone's friend or wife or mother, someone's sister.
01:19:53.492 --> 01:19:59.909
this is someone's friend or wife or mother and you you really have a responsibility to to treat him in the way you'd want somebody to treat your mother or your wife or your daughter.
01:19:59.909 --> 01:20:18.904
You know it's not a matter of and and that realization came to me later in my career than it should have, but once it really dawned on me that's what's happening.
01:20:18.904 --> 01:20:26.543
You know they're all somebody's mother or somebody's wife or somebody's daughter, or somebody's husband or somebody's son.
01:20:26.543 --> 01:20:34.519
You know the responsibility to treat them the way you would want somebody to treat yours.
01:20:36.591 --> 01:20:43.119
And I think it's the realization that we are all colleagues, Even though we may never meet each other face-to-face.
01:20:43.119 --> 01:21:01.024
We are creating a precedent for the next performer and for the next person, and we should be mindful and respectful of not just the art of magic but each other and how someone else might therefore treat another performer down the line.
01:21:02.252 --> 01:21:16.560
This was all here when we got here, it's going to be here when we leave, and if you can just make it a little bit better because you were there, then that feels just.
01:21:17.212 --> 01:21:20.117
I absolutely agree, and that brings us to your book.
01:21:20.117 --> 01:21:23.279
So what is the book that you would take with you?
01:21:24.930 --> 01:21:34.564
Well, when you say book, you know I love Paul Harris's Art of Astonishment.
01:21:34.564 --> 01:21:46.164
That's a trilogy that Eric Mead helped him, you know, gather that material.
01:21:46.164 --> 01:21:54.520
But if I would have to pick just one, I'm not sure that you know one would be easy to pick.
01:21:54.520 --> 01:22:01.814
There's things like the classic magic of Larry Jennings is just a huge volume of really wonderful magic.
01:22:01.814 --> 01:22:14.823
The collected works of Derek Dingle is, you know, an amazing amount of material that you could play with for a lifetime.
01:22:14.823 --> 01:22:24.404
If you asked 30 years ago, I would have said Stars of Magic, because that was such a great book for me growing up.
01:22:24.404 --> 01:22:35.554
Or Expert Card Technique was such a great book growing up, technique was such a great book growing up.
01:22:35.573 --> 01:22:39.105
The the collected magical arts journals, you know, was a three-year publication that dealt with the.
01:22:39.105 --> 01:22:54.016
You know the work and business and magic as a, as a unit, as show business, which is important because it is both words.
01:22:54.016 --> 01:23:01.242
If you're really going to do it, you have to devote as much time to the business as you do to the show.
01:23:01.242 --> 01:23:03.859
If you don't have a good show, you're not going to have good business.
01:23:03.859 --> 01:23:07.520
If you don't have good business it doesn't matter how good your show is.
01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:24.090
And the Magical Arts Journal was a monthly publication that always had something interesting in it and so when you put three years of those together you really have a lot of great value.
01:23:24.090 --> 01:23:37.185
Things like the Aspen Bar Magic issue was such a great collection of commercial, valuable ideas.
01:23:38.590 --> 01:23:53.365
Paul Harris put his complete act in as an issue in the Magical Arts Journal at a time when he thought he was getting out of magic and going into scripting, writing movie scripts.
01:23:53.365 --> 01:24:07.012
For a while he wrote Nice Girls Don't Explode, which was published by Chuck Martinez or produced by Chuck Martinez, which is very.
01:24:07.012 --> 01:24:11.439
When you watch it you just kind of recognize Paul's sense of humor.
01:24:11.439 --> 01:24:31.945
And but there was a time when he thought, okay, I'm officially out of magic and I'm doing this other thing and so I don't mind if we record my act exactly as it was scripted and performed by him when he was performing.
01:24:31.945 --> 01:24:42.784
So I mean there's still a lot of great value in that collected works of the Magical Arts Journal.
01:24:42.784 --> 01:24:52.463
You know Hugh Gard's Magic Monthly was compiled but that was like eight or nine volumes.
01:24:52.463 --> 01:24:55.219
Apocalypse was combined but that's several volumes.
01:24:55.219 --> 01:25:00.341
But things like that really have a lot of good, valuable information in them.
01:25:01.871 --> 01:25:25.317
Well, I will sort of break the full fall here and say that earlier on we did actually tell Michael about this, so at no point was Devil's advocate going to come out, because there are some people I could not do that to, so I'll let you take all of those books as your one book, um you're allowed all of them, they would all be fair choices.
01:25:26.278 --> 01:25:42.443
So if I only go out, you know Martin Gardner's collected those were impromptu effects that appeared in publications for years.
01:25:42.443 --> 01:25:47.502
It just has a mountain of good magic in it.
01:25:47.502 --> 01:25:50.262
A surprising amount of great magic in it.
01:25:50.262 --> 01:25:55.997
A surprising amount of great magic in there Because it was collected over maybe 30 or 40 years.
01:25:55.997 --> 01:26:03.175
So anybody that made that choice would be content with that as a choice.
01:26:03.175 --> 01:26:12.939
It's not easy, but any one of those would be adequate content for a desert island.
01:26:13.649 --> 01:26:17.360
Well, you're the first guest that we've given a small library to for that island.
01:26:18.270 --> 01:26:21.300
It's more of a bookshelf than a book.
01:26:22.372 --> 01:26:23.703
Well, that takes us on to your last thing.
01:26:23.703 --> 01:26:24.529
So what's the item?
01:26:24.529 --> 01:26:29.082
So a non-magic item that you use for magic that you could not live without.
01:26:29.729 --> 01:26:49.966
Well, you know, it would be nice to have my wife there, it would be nice to have a good coffee machine, a desalination device if I'm on a desert island, or an iphone with a solar charger again, it's any.
01:26:49.966 --> 01:26:53.958
Any one of those would be good choices if I really had to.
01:26:53.958 --> 01:27:02.314
And I'm not sure what I would grab if the house was on fire and I could only carry one thing Probably my wife.
01:27:04.298 --> 01:27:07.109
That was a good save, because she's probably going to listen to this back.
01:27:07.270 --> 01:27:08.756
She's probably in the other room now.
01:27:10.411 --> 01:27:12.315
Well, that's a great list, and thank you so much.
01:27:12.315 --> 01:27:14.261
There's so much wonderful advice there.
01:27:14.261 --> 01:27:20.793
Now, if people want to find out more about you, obviously you're over here at the moment doing your UK lecture tour.
01:27:20.793 --> 01:27:29.175
If people want to either find out more about this lecture tour or about ones in America, if they want to find out more about you, where you're going to be, where can they go?
01:27:29.496 --> 01:27:38.148
Well, I have a website, amrmagiccom, that's A-M-M-A-R-M-A-G-I-Ccom.
01:27:38.148 --> 01:27:42.634
I also have a download site, worldsgreatestmagiccom.
01:27:42.634 --> 01:27:53.247
You have to put wwwworldsgreatestmagiccom and then has a ton of those easy to master videos on there.
01:27:53.247 --> 01:28:02.954
A lot of them are broken down into individual tricks so that you get to watch that effect and if you like it, you get to download just the secret for that one effect.
01:28:02.954 --> 01:28:08.569
So that's a good source for reaching out amazing.
01:28:08.829 --> 01:28:10.154
Well, thank you so much again.
01:28:10.154 --> 01:28:27.253
I know we've we've literally just thrown michael in the studio and said we're going to do this podcast, so thank you again for doing it it's a pleasure, jamie, and I'm happy to do it because, you know, peter nardi and wayne goodman really made this lecture tour possible.
01:28:27.274 --> 01:28:43.064
The first first person I asked was Tony Antonio, who would be a good person to help arrange a tour in the UK, and his comment was well, peter Nardi and Ali Kazam really knows everybody.
01:28:43.064 --> 01:28:52.957
He's got a good relationship with people across the board and that was good advice and these guys really did an amazing job.
01:28:53.439 --> 01:29:27.538
It's uh, it's it's a rather dense tour, you know, overall, it to actually buy some extra socks and underwear because, there was no chance to wash them along the way, but that's the nature of the beast, and you know happy to stay busy.
01:29:28.551 --> 01:29:37.760
Yeah, well, at the time of of recording now, we've actually got to your academy tonight as well, so it would be remiss of me not to mention that I'm.
01:29:37.760 --> 01:30:00.395
I mean, I was at your lecture the other night, which was phenomenal, but I'm really excited tonight because, whilst there'll be a little bit of crossover, there's going to be unique material here that you've not put in your lecture as well um, some classics and some of the things that you've actually spoken about in this podcast will be in this filming tonight.
01:30:00.815 --> 01:30:03.320
It's essentially a different lecture.
01:30:03.320 --> 01:30:16.194
There's one or two things that are kind of universal that people might like to see and might value as a recording that they can review in real time.
01:30:16.194 --> 01:30:18.358
So it'll be.
01:30:18.358 --> 01:30:20.943
It'll be an interesting I'm actually.
01:30:20.943 --> 01:30:25.938
I actually kind of wish I could watch some of my own videos to kind of prepare for this.
01:30:25.938 --> 01:30:28.644
But yeah, it'll be fun.
01:30:29.551 --> 01:30:31.737
Yeah, amazing, and thank you all for listening.
01:30:31.737 --> 01:30:36.038
Now please do go check out uh michael lamar's website.
01:30:36.038 --> 01:30:37.302
Do go check out his tour.
01:30:37.302 --> 01:30:44.921
If you're in the uk at the time that this episode goes out, he is still touring, so there are still some dates, so do go find him.
01:30:44.921 --> 01:30:47.636
Do go check them out, of course.
01:30:47.636 --> 01:30:56.951
Do check out book, which was recently reprinted, and there are lots of signed ones in the UK right now, so you can get your signed as well, of course, if you go to one of his lectures.
01:30:56.951 --> 01:30:59.778
And do go check out the Academy.
01:30:59.778 --> 01:31:07.351
If you've not seen it by the time that this goes out, then of course it's still available after, and I know already it's going to be full of incredible material.
01:31:07.351 --> 01:31:10.077
So please do go check that out.
01:31:10.077 --> 01:31:16.797
So for now, we hope you enjoy the rest of your week and we'll see you again next week for another episode of Desert Island Tricks.
01:31:16.797 --> 01:31:17.279
Goodbye.
01:31:22.492 --> 01:31:25.939
When I perform at gigs, I look at effects that tick these three boxes.
01:31:25.939 --> 01:31:28.216
Is it super strong and powerful?
01:31:28.216 --> 01:31:32.239
Yes, will it last with your spectators for a lifetime?
01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:38.863
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01:32:31.030 --> 01:32:32.207
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01:32:40.853 --> 01:32:52.492
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