Resigning From Stability: From Corporate Law to Full Time Artist with Rebecca Trajkovski

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Now, today's conversation is a little different because it happens straight from my studio lounge.
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My guest today is the incredible Rebecca Trikowski, who is a longtime friend, Sydney-based artist who actually spent 15 years as a corporate lawyer before leaving the profession to paint full-time.
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Her work explores ambition, achievement, and the pursuit of the good life through images of houses, cars, and status symbols.
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Not as objects of desire, but as questions about why we want them in the first place.
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Rebecca has exhibited widely across Australia, including solo shows at Hearstville Museum Gallery.
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She's been a finalist in numerous prizes, including the Marugal Women's Art Prize and the Lethbridge 20,000, and has shown at the other artfair and affordable art fair multiple times.
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She is also the founder of Studio 529, bringing creativity into the workplaces to help people think differently.
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I really, really want you to listen carefully to this conversation because it's one that's a little bit close to my heart.
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I have been cheering Rebecca on from the sidelines ever since I met her, watching her slowly and incrementally pivot out of her corporate life and into this full-time career as an artist.
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And she has some incredible perspectives to offer.
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So grab yourself a copper and join us on the lounge.
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Hey guys, welcome to Daring Creatively Unfiltered, where I call up an artist friend, throw a surprise topic into the conversation, and hit record.
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No plan, no prep, no agenda.
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Just two creatives having a chat.
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I'm Corinne Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life.
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My guests are artists at every stage of the journey.
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And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear.
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So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us.
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This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered.
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Let's go.
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This is exactly how unfiltered these conversations are.
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And look, I don't even have microphones because they both broke.
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And because I've been doing everything over the phone, I haven't needed to go and get more.
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So so we're in the studio today, and um I have the wonderful Rebecca now Tradkovsky.
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Trachkovsky.
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Then case the Russian composer Tradkowski.
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You should, yeah.
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You should.
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Okay, because every time I go to say your surname, I'm like, I have no idea if I'm saying it correctly.
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It's okay.
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I went to school in Sutherland.
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Yeah, they don't quite marry up very much.
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But yeah, it's a Macedonian background.
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Um my parents I still haven't changed my maiden name, so I should change my but it's the same anyway.
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Is it?
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I mean, Alex is Stoyanovsky, so it's been Rebecca Stonov.
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It's the same.
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Are you both Macedonian?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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My parents happened.
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Well, I went to University of Woolungong and um and I think we're gonna have to sit closer to this phone.
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I met him at a night on a night out after Law Ball and um yeah, bumped into him and I was like, he looks Australian.
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I look Australian, I know.
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And I looked at him and I thought, uh, you know, yeah, nice guy, this, that.
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But when he spoke, I was like, Are you Macedonian?
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And he's like, nah, you how do you know?
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And I'm like, because I'm Macedonian.
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He's like, nah, that's so funny.
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Oh, I've never heard your love story before.
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That's cute.
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Yeah, so that was interesting.
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Um, and then we're friends for a long time, and then yeah, we got married.
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So now we have three kids.
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I know.
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And you're an artist, and he's like, oh shit, what did I get?
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I know my husband's like every day.
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He's like, okay, every day's a new adventure, every day's a new adventure, every day's a new adventure.
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Yeah.
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So when we, yeah, when I met him, I was just finishing my last year of law school and he was still studying.
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He was an engineer, and um he had a few more years of study.
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I was a bit older than him, too.
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Yeah.
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You don't think older than he, he's oh god, that's nothing.
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He's got 12 years on him.
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Oh wow, no way.
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Yeah, he looks young, but he does.
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And he's and he's and he's playful as well.
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So he's very young at heart.
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Youthful, yes.
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That's it.
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Well, Alex is more of an old soul than what I am.
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I'm a bit more woo-hoo! And he's like, calm down.
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So calm down.
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We we need I mean, look, I think see, see, guys, this is supposed to be all about art, but we're really just sitting here talking about our husbands and how they deal with us.
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The realities of being an artist, our partners actually play such a huge role.
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Surrounding us, I think.
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I know, I'd be floating up on the ceiling.
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Every now and then my husband has to come and grab my heels and pull me back down to earth and go, hey, take your rose-coloured glasses off just for two seconds.
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My friends have always said that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, but we have to like I think going back to what we were just talking about, we we had to press record.
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So this is what happens.
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Rebecca every now and then comes into the studio, although now I'm regretting not coming to your studio today, because I feel like we're talking about you.
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I should have been in your studio.
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Yeah, my studio is just like it's so dark, and I'd love to have more windows and stuff.
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Like, it's just not.
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I mean, five years ago, I would have died to have a space the way I have a space now.
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But I mean, it's just not pleasant.
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It's just a dungeon.
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It's a but it's a car, but is it the car block?
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I've got a car garage.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And then I've got a s a room.
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It's about five by three and a half.
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It's still a fairly good amount of space.
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It's a nice space.
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Yeah.
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The roof isn't too high, it's probably about 2.7.
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Yeah.
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It's not too high.
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Um, and I've got a treadmill, I've got a bike.
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I need to like think.
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I go for a walk or a spin.
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And I've got a TV in there, and I've got a seat and a desk.
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So you've got everything you need, really, just no windows.
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I've got a fridge.
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Yeah, I've got a window, but it's little, it's not like a very light.
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About three o'clock I get some of the sunlight through, which is nice.
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And I can open it for fresh air.
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But down the road, um, I'd love to like block out, like completely knock down that wall and make it a sliding door window situation so I can improve the studio a little bit.
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Yeah.
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Goals.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Goals.
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After I think space really does contribute to feelings and thoughts and vibes of Yeah.
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I think so.
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Like I think it's really interesting since I've Because I liked having the two mezzanine areas, but then I used to like meditate downstairs on the lounge.
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And now that I've moved the lounge up here, I'm finding that it's pivoted where I work in the studio.
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So where I used to work across like that whole space and then back here as well.
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I've found myself like working on less at once, which actually it's a really interesting thing because technically my workload has like quadrupled.
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And yet what I've found my head needing to do is go, okay, this work is going to live in this space.
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So right in front of the lounge.
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Yeah.
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So I can sit on the lounge, I can look at the work, I can do a little bit of a meditation.
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Yeah.
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And what I'm finding is that by working on one painting at a time, I think my colour in my works has gotten more successful because I'm not jumping from one to the next to the next to the next and kind of using what's already mixed.
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What I'm doing is I'm looking at the work, then I'm mixing a whole palette for that work, which is in conversation with what was on the previous layer.
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Yes.
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And so I feel like the colours have been a lot more considered over the last little bit.
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I think it's that time that you give yourself to look at it and meditate on it and live with it.
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It really does make a difference.
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I think it makes a difference in the energy of the work too, because I feel like the depth in your work is just incredible.
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Like the the the colour, the shadows, the shapes.
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I mean, it's just gotten to another level.
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Thank you.
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Yeah, and I think this couch is helping.
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No, I think the couch is helping.
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It's different when you live with your work because that's what I do as well.
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Like I'll finish a piece and then I'll take it up to the living room and hang it.
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So I've got bare hooks everywhere in the living room.
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I've noticed that on your videos.
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I'm like, hang on, and I've seen that space.
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That was a different painting last time.
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Okay, so that's how you negotiate with whether they're done or not.
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Yeah, I live with them.
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And then I let my friends, my family come in and see what's going on and they comment and they're like, that's really good.
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Or, you know, that's not one of your best, or this one needs something.
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And they're usually right because I know it too.
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And sometimes I just know that something's done.
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And I'm like, I if I touch it, I'll ruin it.
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So let it go.
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Well, that's why that one is there.
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Because as I work, walk up the stairs, this is my little trick as well.
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I do put them in a location where when I'm turning up the next morning with a fresh set of eyes, I make sure that the work is the first thing that I see.
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And you know how immediately something that annoys you will jump out.
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Yeah.
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And then you're like, oh, that's what's wrong with it.
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So that's why that one's sitting there.
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I think you should touch it.
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I'm no, no, that one's done.
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It's photograph.
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It's uh yeah, I'm keeping fingers crossed.
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I if that doesn't win the Paddington art prize, I don't know what we'll Oh, you said it on the podcast.
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It's gonna out there for you.
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It's just incredible.
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There's nothing like it.
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Your technique is something else, like no one's doing what you're doing.
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I think as an artist, it's really hard to do something that no one else is doing.
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A lot of artists these days I'm seeing pop up on Instagram are taking from artists, which is fine, but like you can see who they've taken from.
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And I think that when it's obvious, it's not exciting.
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Yeah.
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And this is, I think this is where your story is quite interesting.
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So this is not about me today, guys.
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Even though Rebecca keeps redirecting it back onto my work.
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See, I told you we should have been in your studio.
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Um I wanna, I want you to tell everyone a little bit about your story because I feel like I know your story so well.
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But I feel like your story is one that a lot of people will be able to relate to in many ways, not only from the perspective of having corporate life, going through university for I don't even know how many years you're at university.
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Um, but having that corporate career and really having that incessant pull that is going, no, you just want to do art, you just want to do art, and that transition as well.
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Because I think sometimes with the creative sphere, I think non-creative people look at a creative life and think it's really poetic.
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Yeah.
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But then I think very romantic.
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Yeah.
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But then on the flip side to that, if you're a creative and you're also navigating a full-time job plus kids, or you know, caring for aging parents, all the stuff that we've got going on.
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That's it.
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It is not poetic.
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It's actually really strategic.
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Yeah.
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And in order to kind of pivot, it takes time.
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It's not like a I'm gonna cut the cord and lose my whole income and let everything fall down the drain, and then the next morning I'm gonna wake up and make a beautiful picture and it's gonna sell.
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It doesn't work like that.
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No, it doesn't.
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It doesn't.
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So go back to the start.
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Okay.
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Where did art actually start?
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Actually, I don't know this about you.
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Where did it actually start?
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For me, I think I always used it to um to ground myself, but also to what's the word?
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Um, calm down the nervous system, I think.
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And from a kid, basically kindergarten, we had an art competition, we had to use that scrunched up paper, and we had um a giraffe, and we had to decorate this giraffe with scrunched up paper.
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Oh.
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And I remember like rolling it into balls and stuff like that, cray stake.
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Yes, yeah, and sticking it on the giraffe.
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And I remember doing it like really uh attuned to the the giraffe colours, so it wasn't like a creative um exercise in the sense of using different colours to colour this giraffe, but I so I used the yellow and the browns, and I did it in the spots, and I made spots and stuff, and I ended up winning this art competition.
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And did you?
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This was that.
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Yeah, this was kindergarten, Rockdown Public School.
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Um I remember getting the award in the library at Rockdown, and I just thought, oh, I'm really good at this.
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And I just loved, like, for me, my parents, whenever they'd say, What would you like for your birthday?
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What would you what do you want?
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I'm like, please, pencils, those Faber Castell watercolour pencils that you could make, you know, draw colour in and then put some water on and they turn into watercolors.
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I thought that was magic.
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So get me uh, you know, sitting down in the school holidays, just drawing, just painting, making a mess.
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I remember my mom like yelling at me, like, not at the dining table, Rebecca, it's marble.
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And I'm like, Mom, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Mom, I made a mistake.
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I got I got paint on the carpet or on the tiles and stuff, and um yeah, it just couldn't stop me.
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Yeah, just always loved it.
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And through uni, I would do it to relax.
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And through my corporate career.
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Which what did you do?
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Let's let's go back there.
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Paint.
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No, I know that you painted.
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What did you do for your corporate career?
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Oh sorry, yeah.
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So I went to law school and I um graduated in 2011, I think.
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January 2011 was admitted and straight into corporate career working in the city.
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Um, worked for um, you know, mid-tier law firms, went in in-house when I had my baby and uh stayed in-house for many years.
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Then I went into federal government, which was awesome, and in the regulatory space, so insurance and corporate commercial, um, worked with amazing people, and it was so actually really hard to give up as a career because I really enjoyed it and I loved the people that I worked with, and I was working on good matters, and I don't know, I feel like life's really funny.
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Like when a couple of years ago I was going to move away from corporate and I was gonna give this art thing a good idea.
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I remember that conversation that we were having.
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And then my boss comes to me and he's like, Oh, Rebecca, we've considered you for a management position.
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Um, we're gonna pay you X amount, you're gonna lead this team, you know, you're gonna have these reports, you're gonna be um put out of your comfort zone.
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And I was like, Okay.
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And it's funny how these things happen to you when you least expect them, or you're not striving or pushing or holding on to something so tightly that you want it so bad and they come to you.
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It's like I'd already made the decision.
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:40.559
And I've spoken to my husband and we worked out the finances, we're gonna put do this thing, and then you get this opportunity.
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.000
And then it's like all right.
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.200
Left road, right, right, left road, right road.
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.039
I took the jump.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:49.679
I did.
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:50.720
That's okay.
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.240
And it just helped me save a lot more.
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:55.200
That's so good.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.960
It helped me not be stressed about selling work.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.919
I still did my art, and mind you, don't get me wrong, it was so hard.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:09.919
Like I would come home, I would cook, get the kids to bed, and then I would stay up for as long as I could.
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.840
I love my sleep, so I wouldn't stay up to three or even midnight.
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.399
It'd probably be like 10.30 and be done.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.960
Um, because I think sleep is so important, like you really have to look after your health.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:22.399
Um thank you.
00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:24.639
I'm writing that down as a note for myself right now.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:24.960
Thank you.
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:29.759
Everything um I think it really helps with creativity as well.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:30.320
Yeah.
00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:35.759
And yeah, I would just do it in the in between.
00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:42.480
And I think my process, the way I paint, is very much helpful in in that.
00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:56.720
Explain your your process because actually give me the elevator pitch for your work that you use at these art fairs because some of some of the people listening will have definitely met you at affordable art fair.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:57.200
Yeah.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:07.839
Um, so okay, so actually, the well, the history of Rebecca and I, yes, we started off within Femme Collective.
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.640
That's right, at the Affordable Art Fair in 2022.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:14.319
Yes, and I only got through one affordable art fair before.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.440
Yeah, curatorial, yes, then curatorial picking up.
00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:19.039
So then I couldn't keep doing it.
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:27.440
And so Rebecca and Marie Paul and Angus Martin have been the Femme Collective bus for the last how many years now?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.559
Uh since 2022.
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:29.920
2022, yeah.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.960
So we've gone to Brisbane and Melbourne and Sydney.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.720
I think we've done eight fairs now.
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:35.920
It's crazy.
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:36.720
It's a lot now.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:37.599
That's crazy.
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:46.319
And it's a lot of work, and I don't think people understand like how much time, money, effort goes into these things.
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:51.359
But also for us, the rewards are are there too.
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:55.200
So for us it's a way of getting out there and speaking to people.
00:17:55.359 --> 00:18:00.480
But yeah, when people come to my booth, they usually they usually think I'm selling um someone else's work.
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:00.720
Yeah.
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.279
So I don't realize I'm the artist, which is interesting.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.319
Um, I get a lot of oh, you don't look like an artist.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:07.599
Do you?
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:08.079
Yeah.
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:09.920
Maybe you should wear a suit.
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:10.880
That's so funny too.
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:11.839
Maybe you should.
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:14.160
You should not look like an artist.
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:19.279
I don't know, but then you can you can wear your corporate corporate self.
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.960
Oh god, no, I actually got rid of all my suits, which was kind of liberal.
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.079
No, I didn't burn them.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.720
I gave them I gave them to charity, so you know, they're gonna be able to do that.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.359
Um very liberating.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:36.640
Um, but yeah, so I would say that my work is satirical.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:46.799
It comments on our consumer culture, it's about the wanting mind, which is you know, our constant need for things.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:52.720
And I I question myself in that pursuit because I I love things too.
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.319
I love shiny things, but I also question why?
00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:58.000
Why do I like these things?
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:08.640
And um in a way the works, you know, they're satirical, but they also reflect, you know, the I'm making fun of myself in the works as well.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.319
Because I can see as well in the best possible way.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:26.480
Like I think that's what in your work has always captured me is that you read into it and it's equal amounts of slap in the face, plus um, wow, I really need to actually just make note of that.
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.279
And wow, that's a really beautiful representation of the thing that I need to consider right now.
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.480
That's right, that's right.
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:38.640
And I think you know, the best reaction for me is when someone stands at the booth and they just laugh out loud at my story.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:46.799
And usually the stories are from a real life experience, like um and tell me a story.
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:58.480
Yeah, so there was one, and it's called So Did You Close the Deal, and it's two men in suits, and they look like they've just walked off a private jet and they're carrying their totes.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.839
Yeah, and they've got these shapes on their faces.
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.640
So the shapes represent the masks that we wear.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:13.279
So I feel sometimes, especially in corporate, you know, they they are harp on be authentic, be authentic, you know, be your authentic self.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.119
I'll tell you what, you cannot be your authentic self in corporate, okay?
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.519
You have to mask as much as you can.
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.680
I mean, you know, be genuine, but you don't, you can't show your true self, okay?
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:25.440
It just doesn't work like that.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:46.240
And um I remember being in the office and I was working for this partner, and I had this deal, it was a refinance and it was worth, I don't know, 150 million, and I was you know, signing contracts and stuff, and I had to run over to the um other lawyer's office and close the deal basically.
00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:51.920
And he said to me before I left, make sure you don't fuck it up because it's on you.
00:20:52.240 --> 00:21:02.000
And I was like, all right, so I'm running off to this office and I'm in heels and I'm in a skirt and everything's fucking tight and blazer and all this stuff, you know, hair done.
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:32.640
But by the time I get to the office, I'm like fucking sweating and I'm just so parched, and it's water, and like it's hot summer in one place, it's just so hot, and I'm wearing stockings too because you have to, you know, those those those sheer ones, not not you know, thick ones, but summer ones, and I get there and they don't even offer me a glass of water or just dying, dying of thirst, and just like oh, I feel like a hot mess, you know?
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:34.720
And so I close the deal.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.720
Got the deal done, everything's great, oh, you know, relieved.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.559
And I get back to the office and he's like, So did you close the deal?
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.160
I go, Yes.
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:46.880
And in my head, I'm like, yes, I fucking did.
00:21:50.960 --> 00:22:05.200
Um, and so when I painted these men, I thought to myself, because they're looking at each other and one's kind of timid and the other one's like, A little bit more uh statuesque and I thought to myself, what are they saying to each other?
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:06.559
What could they be saying to each other?
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:10.799
And usually the ideas about paintings and the stories come come to me after they're done.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:16.000
So I'll look at them for a while and I'll think about them and be like, oh, that's what they're saying.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:17.359
Did you close the deal?
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:18.000
Yeah.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:18.720
Yeah.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:24.480
And in that situation, why didn't you paint the why didn't you paint a female?
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:26.319
Time, yeah.
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:26.880
I don't know.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.039
I mean, I was painting a lot of men.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:30.480
Females weren't you?
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.640
Yeah, females or females coming now.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:34.400
Female characters now.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:36.240
I don't know why.
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:38.240
I I haven't worked that out.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:45.359
I don't know why I was attract attracted to painting men for a really long time before I introduced females.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.119
I mean, men are just easier to paint for me.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.559
Like their structure, their faces, their hair.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.759
And you were looking at a lot more of them in your corporate opposite.
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.960
Maybe the s maybe that's the underlying side.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:05.119
Like that's the underlying um subconscious thought.
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:10.720
It it was definitely, you know, I think in-house, a lot more females.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:24.480
But when you look at um the leadership and the the C-suite, it's it's still dominated predominantly by men, I think, um, in business and not just law, everywhere.
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:42.319
Well, we were one of the things that we were talking about before I decided to press record was that I feel like you have this very, very niche um target market for your work.
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.599
And I was questioning as to whether that was your thinking.
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:54.880
And so when I look at your work, I'm gonna I'm gonna reiterate what I said because I think it's interesting for them when people look at your work, whether they can see the same thing.
00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:01.039
But it's like I see your work speaking directly to women.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:07.519
Oh, not so much not always women, but for me, I look for that because I know your story.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:20.640
And I also speak to a lot of women who really want to be creative, yes, who are in corporate settings where that creativity has literally been like squished out of them.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:20.960
Yeah.
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:26.400
And they have to be very masculine, they have to not be in their divine feminine at all.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:27.279
The masking.
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:28.319
Yeah, the masking.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:43.440
And so, you know, I feel like your work speaks so directly to women like that who are just yearning to, you know, be that wild woman archetype, that cheetah being let out of this cage.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.519
And creativity is such a thing that's obviously supported you.
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:55.519
But I think when it comes to, you know, marketing your work, maybe this is something that we can talk about because we were talking about generating leads and things before.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:09.599
But I think when when it is a thing where you are marketing your work, when you're painting your paintings, I'm actually curious to know whether you are thinking about that target market or are you thinking about the story first?
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.960
Like, how do you think about that in relation to your process?
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:13.759
I don't.
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:29.200
I I mean I wish I did because I think that if I did maybe I'd be more maybe the work would be I don't know.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:41.920
I I feel like you do have to think of them, but not think of them so much of and think about like You can't let that dictate the way that you make art.
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:42.960
Definitely.
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:48.000
And for me, the subject matter that I'm painting is usually things that I like.
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:49.759
Like I love cars.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.359
My dad used to be, he's a hobby mechanic.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:05.839
So he would buy cars from the wreckers back in the 80s and 90s, and all up until the 2000s when the laws changed in New South Wales, and you couldn't buy cars from the wreckers and rebuild them and sell them.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.160
So he's a postman by trade, but he would do this on the weekends.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.160
So we would have cars, all sorts of European cars in our house.
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:14.400
Yeah.
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:15.119
All sorts.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:16.720
Like it was amazing.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:17.920
It was like a car yacht.
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:19.279
And I loved it.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:21.920
And he would take me for drives and like I love cars.
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.200
I'm a huge car person.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:30.160
So for me, cars, they they they fit within the the story that I'm telling.
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:33.440
Because cars for me, they're a status symbol.
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.839
When you buy a car, you're not just buying a car, you're telling somebody something about you.
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:38.480
Yeah.
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:39.359
Yeah.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.240
And a lot of things are status symbols.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.079
The job's a status symbol.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.559
Yes.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:46.960
And maybe that's why I pursued it in the first place.
00:26:47.039 --> 00:27:00.720
Not because I loved it, but because I came from an immigrant family who came to Australia with nothing, and they told me, don't push a trolley and be a postman, postwoman, get a g get a degree and get an education and and all of that.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:05.279
So I think for me, I create the work that speaks to me.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:10.880
And then I just put myself so much in it.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.079
But then people relate to it, which is amazing.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:17.759
But they relate to it because it is your authentic story.
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:18.079
Yeah.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:27.440
Like, and I think like when I say it's a very niche market that you're talking to, it's only a very niche market because you are telling the story about you.
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:27.759
Yeah.
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:34.799
And it comes back to authenticity, it comes back to what you've observed, what you've felt in my situation.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:37.599
It's your exactly, it's your view on the world.
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.559
And I think it's, you know, this is the thing.
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.200
And I like I probably worded that question wrong.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:44.079
The no, no.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:28:06.160
But the the point that I was making in it is that because of your authenticity and because of what you have witnessed and you actually putting your story out to the world, it has then driven this target market who then you have these stories with who stand in front of your work at the fairs who can just relate to you.
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:07.359
They do, they do.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.720
And they see themselves and they're like, Yeah, I thought that if I got this too, that it would make me happy.
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:18.799
You know, I've got titles like if I have this house, uh, I'll be happy.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:28.319
Um, and we do, we strive for all these things and we might get them and then realize or or not get them, but we're striving.
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:31.759
And it's I guess the work is aspirational in a sense.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.160
Yeah.
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:38.640
Because I think my whole life has been that, driven by that aspiration.
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:52.640
Influenced by parents, influenced by our consumer culture, our Western culture, the you know, the media growing up in the 90s, getting all of that branding coming from the US and stuff.
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:54.000
And yeah.
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.400
It's just interesting to me.
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.640
And I am a sucker for it too.
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.000
Like I'll buy the thing because it's shiny.
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:02.960
Yeah.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:08.720
And then I'll think, did I buy this for me or did I buy this to like stick it at someone else?
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:09.119
Yeah.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:10.480
Was it an ego or was it?
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:19.119
Was it ego or was it because I and so I've started to question I think when you create art or your creative, you've got an outlet.
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:23.920
I think it well, especially with art, I think you find who you are.
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:32.559
Okay, so that then segues into this pivot that you have well, you've been slowly pivoting over all of these years.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:42.480
Slowly repeating I'd say eight, nine years of you know, entering prizes, yes, uh, doing art fairs and slowly doing it.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.799
Yeah.
00:29:42.960 --> 00:30:11.359
And then getting to a point where it was like four outfairs a year, but I was still in corporate and I was taking annual leave to do those things and and now you're obviously not in corporate anymore, and you're focusing on your kids and your art and so I'm curious that that ego, that shiny object, that you know, capitalist kind of society way of thinking, has that started to shift now that you're out of corporate and you're making art full-time?
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:12.640
It has.
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.680
Um, I think we consume a lot, especially social media.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:18.400
Oh yes.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:29.599
And our I think what you what you put your inputs really drive what how you think and you know, you gotta be you gotta be careful of what you consume, I think.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:30.240
Yes.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:35.680
Um and I've started to notice that because I've got more time on my hands too.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:43.200
You know, so I I try not to spend too much time consuming rubbish on social media.
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:55.599
Um, whilst if I was in my corporate job, maybe I would be consuming a lot more because on the train in, on the train home, like you've got a little bit more time.
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.960
But I think in a creative practice, you have to be disciplined.
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:04.720
And in the same way that I was disciplined in my corporate career, I have to show up whether I feel like it or not.
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:05.759
I show up.
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:06.400
Thank you.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:12.640
You are literally reiterating the one thing that I feel like I repeat to people over and over and over again.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:17.359
You can't talk your way into anything, you have to be just do it doing the work.
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:27.599
So with your with your schedule, so you've gone from this kind of nine to five corporate career, you've pivoted now to being in the studio, which is at home as well.
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:31.119
So how do you how do you structure your day now?
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:41.440
Yeah, so I'll um I've got three kids, so two are in school, um, year three, kindergarten, and a two-year-old, so she's at daycare three days a week.
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:46.000
So I've got three days of me time, I guess.
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:54.720
Um so I've got the school run in the morning, packing the lunches, getting them ready, and then once they're at school, I'll hit the gym for an hour.
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:56.400
I'll push some weights.
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.079
Which is push some weights.
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:01.920
I'll push some heavy weights, lift heavy things, lift heavy things.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.400
Yeah, I do it um yeah, with a whole bunch of mums, which is awesome.
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.920
So it's the mums group at 9 30.
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:08.960
It's oh that's so good.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:10.079
And we push heavy.
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.880
Like some of these girls are just lifting, like, I don't know, 250 kilos on a hack squat.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:15.599
It's wild.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.000
No bad! They put you to shame, like, um yeah, it's awesome because you're around people and it's I like being around people.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:22.319
Yeah.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.799
So I get my energy out for an hour, three days a week.
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:37.599
Um, and then I get it into the studio and I feel a little bit more centered, and I've got my brain is just on, like I can concentrate on the things that I have to do because I've moved my body.
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:38.079
Yeah.
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:42.720
Um, and so I just sit and I feel like inspiration's gotta find you working.
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:44.240
I think Jerry Salt said that.
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.160
Like, do the fucking work.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:46.480
Yeah.
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:50.640
And then inspiration will find you because it's not gonna find you not working.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.359
And sometimes it's really hard to get into the flow.
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:58.000
Like, I sometimes I use music, house music, I love house music.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.119
Put that on, that will get might get me into the flow.
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:03.680
Maybe an audible book, yeah.
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.839
Something on Spotify, like book wise, might get me into the flow.
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.200
Podcasts, yeah, work sometimes.
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:12.799
It just depends on the mood.
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.680
Sometimes I have to sit in silence.
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:17.359
That's what I reckon as well.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.160
Like some days I could go all day listening to podcasts or audiobooks.
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.720
It depends on what phase of the process.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:29.839
But then I'll reach a point where I'm like, why are there all these people talking?
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:30.480
I don't know.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:32.480
I have to like everything off.
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.359
And then I just put my loop earplugs in.
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:37.519
Yep, and they're like nothing, right?
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:38.319
Yeah, they're just nothing.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:38.960
Block everything.
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:57.839
They block everything because the other thing that I've found is that with T downstairs, every now and then he'll have a rep that comes in, and I've had to kind of say to T, plus all the people around me, and there are people that come in to visit, which I have to set boundaries on.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:05.039
But basically, what I have said to everyone is I want you to think of me like a brain surgeon.
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.880
When I go to the studio, I am performing surgery.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:09.760
No talking.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:15.199
So I don't actually want to have a conversation with anyone and with you.
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:20.800
Like even for T, he loves coming up and showing me things, and normally it's great.
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:39.440
But at certain points of my process, like it's like I know it just looks like I'm putting on colour, but the amount of thinking that is going on in this brain, and if you if I lose track as to what colours I'm layering over the top of one another, yes, uh, it will literally set me back half an hour.
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:40.400
I feel you, yes.
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:44.639
Even though I'm writing things down, but it's like I have to stay so locked in.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:48.719
And so I put the loop ones in when I'm kind of at that stage.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:49.440
Yep, yep.
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:54.960
And then once I'm going, once I've got the colour palette kind of planned out and mixed out, it's good.
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:58.239
I can just I can just you can get into the flow and not worry.
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.440
Yeah, it depends on what stage of the process I am as well.
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:05.039
So do you get distracted though with laundry and things like that?
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:05.760
Yes, yes.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:15.599
It's yeah, I mean, sometimes I have to think to myself, I can't do the laundry today because I cannot walk away from the thing that I have to finish.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:16.000
Yeah.
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:21.039
Because I know if I do, like you said, it'll take me about half an hour to get back into it.
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:21.360
Yeah.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.639
And I don't have the time because I got school pickup at on a Tuesday.
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:24.880
Yeah.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:27.280
And I've got to take him to language school on a Tuesday.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:27.599
Yeah.
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:34.320
So, you know, some days are not full, full days of um, you know, nine to six.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:34.880
Yes.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.039
Because some days can be.
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:37.599
Yeah.
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:45.119
And um yeah, I try and do that, and that helps me kind of keep that routine in place.
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.239
I think routine helps.
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:46.800
Oh, research.
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:47.840
Structure helps.
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:50.639
And structure, like this is the thing.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:36:02.159
I find it really interesting how like a lot of artists were very fluid and quite unicorn like, and yet really when it comes down to our craft, each of us have a system.
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:19.119
It's our version of a system, and nobody else understands it, but it's it's a system that helps us stick to the consistency of developing our practice, our craft, our honing in on the skills.
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:32.559
And I think, you know, this is where like I want to talk a little bit about like your, you have such a like, you know, I hate the term creative voice, because it's kind of like one of those eye roll things.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:37.519
Because I feel like when I sit down with clients, they're like, Oh, I need to be help me find my creative voice.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.079
And I just want to roll my eyes every single time.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:46.559
And it's like questions at the affordable upfair sometimes, like artists will come to me and they'll say, How did you get your voice?
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.719
It's like, do the work.
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:57.679
Yeah, there's that's that's unfortunately You just have to be working, and eventually you will observe a little passion that comes out.
00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:01.599
And for me, like I would mask a lot in my work as well.
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:09.119
Like when I first started, I wasn't painting about the things that I really felt deeply about.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:28.639
Um, I was just painting pretty pictures, and you know, it took me a while to really come into my myself and really talk about the things that I'm interested in and the things that make me tick, um, and find, you know, a style that I get excited about doing.
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:33.119
But I think as well, sometimes it's a thing that at the start.
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:34.880
You're experimenting.
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:38.880
You're experimenting and you're quote unquote making a painting.
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:39.519
Yeah.
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:45.519
Whereas eventually what happens is it's less about finding a a voice.
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:51.199
But eventually what happens is you actually stop making a painting and you start revealing yourself.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:51.760
Yeah.
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:59.920
That's what the process of quote unquote finding your cre your own unique style and whatnot.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:06.159
And it's like people like, and I've spoken at length on multitude of podcasts and everything.
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.280
How, how did you come to this whole excavating thing?
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:12.800
It's like I had a life crisis and I hit rock bottom.
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:13.119
Yeah.
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.760
And I couldn't not look at it.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:22.639
And the only thing I saw in all of my work was just this escape, and I had to get rid of it.
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:25.119
And there just happened to be a piece of sandpaper on the floor.
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:25.440
Yeah.
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:34.639
And that one piece of sandpaper started off a whole decade's worth of me learning that paintings were a process of excavating myself.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:35.039
Yeah.
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:40.480
Like it's like you can't teach that to someone.
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:40.960
No.
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:55.360
This is the thing, like when you sit down, when I sit down with other artists, or even when I'm like mentoring younger people who are, you know, just have an interest in art and they just want to get, you know, their skills underway or whatnot.
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:56.079
Yeah.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.519
And you can teach a skill.
00:38:57.679 --> 00:38:58.559
You can teach a skill.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:38:59.599
Anyone can draw.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.559
Anyone can learn to draw, anyone can do a workshop.
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:03.199
Anyone.
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:03.599
Anyone.
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:04.880
Anyone interested.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:05.519
Yes.
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:12.159
But where it takes it to the next level is exactly what you're saying.
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:25.760
It's having like this this hunger in you that means that you're gonna keep showing up, and you're gonna keep showing up until what is a painting is no longer a painting.
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:26.000
Yeah.
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:27.360
It's all of you.
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:27.840
Yeah.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:36.320
And I think, and I've mentioned it before, that the paintings that I know are good paintings, they're like a moment of deja vu.
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:36.719
Yeah.
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:41.760
They land, so once they're finished, I look at them and I'm like, oh, I've met you before.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:42.559
Yes, yes.
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:47.599
And you know what, in saying that too, like not the paintings aren't for everyone.
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.000
You know, my work is not for everyone.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:54.000
And that's okay because you might not relate to it because you don't see yourself in it.
00:39:54.079 --> 00:40:01.679
Because when you stand in front of a painting, it's it's subjective for you because you bring your history to that viewing.
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:09.679
So unless you can tap into something that you've experienced that you can see in that work, you're not going to relate to it.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:11.119
And that's okay.
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:26.559
Um, but I think when you create for you, not thinking a lot too much about the outcome, but only thinking about your practice, that's where I think the magic happens.
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:28.960
Because eventually the right people will find you.
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:31.280
Yeah, that is such a good note.
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:41.760
That is such a good note, and so in alignment with what we were talking about before we press record in just you know, showing up for the work, backing yourself.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:43.199
Trusting yourself.
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:44.000
Trusting yourself.
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:45.280
That's a really hard thing.
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:47.519
And trusting, I think, as well.
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:50.239
Like it's it's trusting yourself.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:41:05.360
But the the pivot that I've come to making, especially over the last six months, is it's like I trust myself, but I think there was a little bit of a block in actually trusting that the work knows where it wants to go.
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:20.480
And it might sound really woo-woo, but when I stopped kind of trying to hustle and push the work to where I thought it needed to be, and just literally pivoted and went, okay, do you know what?
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.679
That's not in my control at this point in time.
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:34.239
What is in my control is me turning up and getting so good at what I do that my work is literally like a magnet that people cannot ignore it.
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:34.719
That's it.
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:42.320
And I just made that my sole focus in that I'm gonna get so good at what I do that people won't be able to say no to it.
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:42.960
Yeah.
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:50.480
And at the point that, you know, you get your work to a point that you're genuinely proud of what you're doing.
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:51.119
Yes.
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.079
Genuinely, genuinely proud with the outcome.
00:41:57.679 --> 00:41:58.239
That's it.
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:04.480
And then I think you can look at the work and you can go, well, where do you want to go?
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.840
Where do you want to take me?
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:07.039
I'm really curious.
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.199
And it's like, you're look, be here now.
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:10.639
It's already done.
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:10.880
Yeah.
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:12.480
What if it's already done?
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:13.599
How would you show up?
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.000
Receive, universe, show me how good this can get.
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:18.320
It's like all this shit written on my walls.
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:19.280
To remind you.
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:19.760
Yeah.
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:28.159
But I'm like asking the work that I'm like, I'm really curious to see like this new painting that we've been talking about.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.800
I I look at it and I go, do you know what?
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:34.719
I'm really curious to see where you're gonna lead my practice next.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:35.280
Absolutely.
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:36.800
I don't know who's gonna see you.
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:38.480
I don't know where you're gonna end up.
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:40.880
Man, am I excited to find out though?
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:41.920
Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:50.480
And and doing the curiosity thing rather than the, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna push it in front of this, I'm gonna ask if someone wants to take this.
00:42:50.559 --> 00:43:00.960
Like I think when we focus so much and put so much pressure on the outcomes, we restrict our practice, like we restrict our curiosity, our creativity.
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:07.760
Like it's the same thing with the art fairs, like it's a very big expense to do an art fair, um, as you know.
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:17.679
Um, but the the problem or the like you really have to go in with no expectation of sales.
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:18.000
Yeah.
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:23.039
So the outcome, don't hold on to it like like it's so tightly.
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:38.559
Um when you show the work, which is what that kind of art fair does for me, you just let the work do the work because you can't control the outcome.
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:49.119
All you can control is your process, your practice, showing up every day, and you know, if you're if you're like and our society is so focused in on outcomes.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:53.679
Yes, like it's hard not to feel that pressure.
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.679
And financially it's hard too.
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.760
But and and that's why I'm not advocating for people to go quit their jobs and become an artist.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.360
Or do the creative thing.
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:01.599
Yeah.
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.039
I like do it slowly.
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:04.639
You know, test your market.
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:04.880
Yeah.
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:07.199
See what work works.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.480
Get a mentor.
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:10.400
Talk to someone who's been where you're at.
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:11.360
Network.
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:18.960
Like I didn't go to art school, but through doing the other art fair many years ago, I met a lot of artists.
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:19.360
Yeah.
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:21.039
You know, we've met each other.
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:21.280
Yeah.
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:26.880
Like you do have to create your own network, especially if you haven't gone to art school, I think.
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:31.280
And you have to um get out there and yet mentors.
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:34.159
Um and you have to be authentic when you do it.
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:42.880
I think this is another point that I always like to bring home to people is, you know, you're an artist, you're at X stage of your career.
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:47.280
Maybe you want a gallery, maybe you don't, maybe you want to get into art fairs.
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:58.159
At the end of the day, if you are showing up and performing being an artist, you're not going to be able to sustain that sustain that.
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:17.840
If you are showing up to everywhere you go as your authentic self, your unapologetic authentic self, you will attract to you the friendships, the galleries, the dealers, the curators who literally look at you and go, I don't know what it is.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:18.960
I don't like that person.
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.440
But I like your work and I really like you.
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.280
And I gotta know more about you.
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:23.840
Yes.
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:31.840
So it's like when you are developing your networks, like you show up so authentically to every single fair.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:32.880
Yeah, that's very kind.
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:39.840
And well, I think I I mean, I don't I don't think I attract anyone who's not authentic.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:40.480
Yeah.
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:47.119
Like everyone that I that is close surrounding me, I think that's why I'm close with them.
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:51.679
Because you know, you pick up a vibe of people who are just trying to perform.
00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:54.159
Yes, cut the BS.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:55.039
Yeah.
00:45:56.320 --> 00:46:06.800
But it's like if you are showing up as authentically you, people, you you will end up developing this tribe surrounding you who is so supportive of what you do.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.440
That's right.
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:14.480
And you need that because there are days where you don't trust yourself or you don't believe in yourself, or you're having a bad day.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:23.360
And you know, when you can call a friend or have a support network around you, it makes a big difference because you're not alone.
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:23.920
Yeah.
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:25.599
Art is really hard.
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:28.639
This career is not a recipe.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:30.320
I followed the recipe.
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.960
I did the law degree, the the job, the house, the kids, the all the stuff.
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:36.559
That's a solid recipe.
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:38.800
This is not a recipe.
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:42.320
This is this is complete resignation from stability.
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.280
And one of my paintings is called that, resigning from stability.
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:46.960
And it's a guy jumping off a yacht.
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:48.159
I wish I had this yacht.
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:54.079
Um, you know, like, but it's just like it's so you make it what it is.
00:46:54.239 --> 00:47:01.840
You make your momentum, you make your career, you choose the works that you want to create, the jobs that you want to do, the commissions.
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:03.280
It's up to you.
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:06.159
And that's that's super exciting.
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.119
Like, let's not take away how fun this is, too.
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:09.599
Yeah.
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:13.119
It's hard, but the highs are fun.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:33.760
And it's like waking up every day to this blank canvas, and it's like I often I often try to visualize for myself, and I do it as a little activity when I'm feeling like I'm when I'm just having a really off week, or I've got my period or something, I'm just feeling angry and like nothing's working out.
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:39.840
It's like I just want to sit on the lounge and you know, talk about all the things that are not working.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.519
Because I do, I go through those days.
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:42.480
Yeah, we all do.
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:49.039
And then, you know, I have to force myself to pull out the the journal and do my what if journal and all of that.
00:47:50.159 --> 00:48:01.440
You know, I try and visualize to myself when I'm feeling that way or I'm feeling like real sh like I've had a really shitty week, I just sit and I'm like, okay, let's visualize the alth alternative.
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:02.000
Yes.
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:04.159
Imagine if I had an office job.
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:06.480
And no criticism to anyone who has office jobs.
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:11.039
But for me, that would be we gotta do what we gotta do, right?
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:13.599
That's that would be my worst case scenario.
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:15.840
So for me, I'm like That's your nightmare.
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:17.360
Yeah, that's my proper nightmare.
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:27.519
So I'm like visualizing myself with something to do with numbers in an office in front of a computer, and then very quickly I'm like, I am so grateful for my life.
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:28.559
Yeah, absolutely.
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:37.280
I think we have to have perspective and realize how lucky we are to to pursue the thing that we are excited to get up in the morning about.
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:38.239
Yeah, you know.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:47.679
And equally, I think it's wise to say that, you know, um, I don't think that I I make things sound easy in this podcast.
00:48:47.840 --> 00:49:03.360
Like I think that we're there's enough that's there's enough authentic conversations going on that I think people can get a gist that it isn't all sunshine and rainbows, and that 90% of it is just really good old-fashioned showing up.
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:03.760
Yeah.
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:04.639
Hard work.
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:15.039
But I think the difference with art is that we often don't have anyone, you know, patting us on the back and saying, Oh, good job today.
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:15.360
Yes.
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:22.159
Whereas when you turn up to a nine to five job, you know, often there's a leadership person that tells you that you're doing a great job.
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:27.920
You'll have a performance review, you're set the front track or but we can go direction.
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:29.360
We can go years.
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:43.119
Like, for example, if you're producing an entire solo show of work, you're going, you know, 12, 14, 18, two years of alone in your studio doing the work, of which not much of it's being seen.
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.800
There's no sales coming through because you've got to keep that work for the show.
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:47.119
Yeah.
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:52.079
And every day you have to turn up and go, I'm grateful that I'm here.
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:53.519
It's enough that I'm here.
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:55.199
My focus is on my work.
00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:56.320
How can I push this?
00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:59.920
You are your own boss and your own boss.
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:00.400
Yeah.
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:04.159
And I think the voice inside your head is really important.
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:07.760
You have to train that voice to shut the fuck up.
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:08.960
That's negative.
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:09.920
Let's do it.
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:20.800
Like you really have to be talking to yourself in a way where if this was a boss, if this was an external boss talking to you like this, you would not be working for them.
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:21.119
No.
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:21.760
You'd quit.
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:23.039
You'd be like, fuck you, man.
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:24.320
I'm not, nah, nah.
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:25.280
Boundaries.
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:28.320
So I think the voice inside your head is really, really important.
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:33.679
And I think, you know, getting out outside of the studio is really important.
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.280
I think experiencing things is really important.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:49.679
And I say that because from my experience, the things that I learned in my life or the things that I've gone through have been the source of inspiration for my work.
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:50.320
Yes.
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.440
Um I get ideas.
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:59.360
I think Seinfeld said like every conversation that he has with a friend, like, he'll pull from that.
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:01.440
And that's how he created Seinfeld.
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:07.360
He would pull from the the story that happened and he'd create the script.
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:10.239
So uh or he'll he'll pull a joke from it.
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:14.960
He'll he'll literally use his life as the the thing.
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:15.599
Yeah.
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:18.000
So I think that's really important too.
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:20.159
Like, it's not just art, art, art.
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:26.400
It's we are creatives, creatives in more ways than they're just art in our lives.
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:28.159
And we need to pull from life.
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.719
You pull from life and you serious life.
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:35.760
And you also pull from the things that you don't understand as well.
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:36.000
Yeah.
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:51.519
So you pull from this about yeah, and it's like what is interesting to me, and the thing that I've been like negotiating with at the moment is because I've gone back to doing like quite a lot of like conceptual writing about my work.
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:54.239
And something that's great, because you reflect.
00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:55.039
Yeah.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:09.679
And it's like, because otherwise, if you don't go back every now and then and consider, okay, what is what is really driving why I'm still, I'm still going back to landscape over and over and over again.
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:18.800
And it actually has taken me um quite some time to really consider what I'm trying to get at with my work.
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:32.480
And it's through the making and through the journaling that I've realized, you know, I've because I've been actually going to a lot of um really, I've I've been looking at a lot of um like indigenous work.
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:32.800
Yes.
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:39.519
And what I've been like really drawn to at the moment is like their dream time stories, their myths.
00:52:39.679 --> 00:53:06.239
And I, you know, I thought to myself, you know what's so interesting is that here in Australia, you know, unless you are indigenous and you have been brought up on those myths and those stories and the dream time stories, and you have that history there that you are physically being told by your like ancestral line, we really don't have a lot of culture here.
00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:17.519
Like for someone like me, I'm literally so hungry to learn about the histories that people have spoken about the landscape.
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:26.480
And then I'm thinking, you know, I was listening to something the other day by Paul Czech, and he said, a myth is a story that tells itself.
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:26.960
Okay.
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:42.159
And I thought, oh my gosh, that's so true, and it's so similar to what I'm trying to do with my work in layering these stories, these landscapes, and they're not necessarily all about a specific place.
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:49.760
They're a culmination of different landscapes that it's my way of trying to understand the stories behind it, you know.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:50.639
I love that, yeah.
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:56.400
How many times have like what have these locations like experienced?
00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:57.679
Like, what have they seen?
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:07.440
You think about the the ancient quality of you know, these rock formations and how long they've been here and how much history has just happened across the surface.
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:07.840
Yeah.
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:17.840
Like it's it's it's exponential, like going back that way, you know, it's just mind-blowing to think of those things like that dinosaurs roam the earth.
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:28.320
And the more I read into these myths and these stories, I'm just like, oh my god, like we really are so minuscule.
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:29.599
Oh, where they're a speck.
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:32.079
Where are you drop in the ocean?
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:34.079
But we create waves, you know?
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:34.320
Yeah.
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:36.639
You don't know who you touch through this art.
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.079
Like, that's the coolest thing about this, I think, this job.
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:50.639
Um you send a piece and you just don't know where it ends up in the world or who it touches and what kind of ripple effect it has.
00:54:50.960 --> 00:55:13.519
And but going back to your point about journaling and writing down and thinking about the work in a conceptual way, I think that's so important for us as artists because when you do that, and I used to do it in corporate too, like when you have time and space to reflect on what you've achieved and what you've done and where you want to go, it gives you perspective.
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:14.320
Yeah.
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:16.719
Real perspective.
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:20.159
And it also shows you where the missing pieces of the puzzle are.
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:21.119
That's what I've found.
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:32.719
It's like in the journaling, I'm like, ooh, okay, this is where my sticky spot is in that I don't quite understand the history of this this area that I'm trying to understand.
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:38.559
And then it gives you kind of a pathway to understanding how someone else has thought about it.
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:39.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:49.199
Yeah, it is, it is, it it I think it's it is important, but it's also easy to just gloss over and and do the work.
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.239
And I mean, it depends on what your motivation is.
00:55:52.320 --> 00:56:21.360
Like sometimes, I mean, I see it at the fairs, there's a lot of work that's decorative, and there's nothing wrong with decorative pieces, but uh you can probably see that it's just a not a it's it's not grounded in any um conceptual kind of there's probably comes down to people's definition of why they what what why they make work, you know, why what people's definition of success is.
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:26.000
I mean some people want to cleanings and there's nothing wrong with that.
00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:30.320
Um so it de I don't know where I was going with this.
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:32.559
Um I don't know.
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:43.039
We've done a pretty good job of just allowing this conversation to flow in many different I don't even know what I'm gonna title this conversation.
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:44.239
I don't know either.
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.679
But we're literally like slumped on the lounge upstairs.
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:50.400
I wish it wasn't I wish it.
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:51.039
Hang on.
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:52.159
Should have put it on YouTube.
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:52.880
I know.
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:54.960
I feel like we should have propped the camera.
00:56:55.199 --> 00:57:01.119
Well, okay, this this by the way, there's no mics being used in in this conversation either.
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:08.239
So if the if the sound is not the best, although I have used this technique before and it has sounded pretty good.
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:11.599
But it's actually been really nice to do this in person.
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:13.920
Yeah, I thought I'm not a phone person.
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:19.760
I mean, and we're just around the corner, so I thought I'll just come see you and we'll have a coffee and a sandwich.
00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:25.280
And and by the way, I know I said no to that sandwich at the start, but it was really delicious.
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:29.840
Yeah, you need some protein in your bloody body.
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:32.800
I I was gonna think no, I was gonna go somewhere else.
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:38.559
I was gonna be like, bloody hell, like don't we just feel like so overwhelmed with all the things that we have to do?
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:44.800
Like that's tea's only protein, your creatine, your fucking exercise, you get your shit done.
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:45.840
Like, but it's good.
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:46.719
Routine is good.
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:55.280
Tea's only job is to make sure like with the two shows coming up, I'm like tea, you have one job.
00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:56.239
Yeah, okay.
00:57:56.559 --> 00:58:03.519
You treat my studio like I'm doing brain surgery, as in like not available at all.
00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:05.440
Like pretend I'm not here.
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:09.519
But if I am in here for like 12 hours straight, please give me something.
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.079
Can you please just remind me to eat?
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:14.880
Because I will literally just keep hanging and I will forget.
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:19.360
We do, we get into the flow and it's super hard to step out of it.
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:23.119
He'll stick his head around the corner and he'll be like, I have some blood.
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:24.159
Can you hungry?
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:25.760
And I'm like, huh?
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:26.559
Food?
00:58:26.800 --> 00:58:27.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:30.639
Oh, oh, yes, I'm hungry.
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:31.039
Yeah.
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:31.679
Like that.
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:41.280
I actually speaking of that, like I listened to a podcast and I can't remember who the artist was, but she mentioned something that was really clever and I a real good takeaway.
00:58:41.679 --> 00:58:52.800
Because you know how we're talking about routine and like having to pick up the kids from school and stuff, and sometimes it's really hard to switch from that hyper focus into your art to mum mode.
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:53.280
Yes.
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:59.440
And she said what she does is she'll do a quick 10-minute yoga session before she picks up the kids.
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:00.320
Oh, that's smart.
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:06.960
And I just thought that's so good because you just get out of that mode to another mode, but you have a transitional.
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:09.199
I could do that just here on the rug as well.
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:21.039
A few stretches or even like sometimes like a quick shower, just something, something that disrupts the you know, the rush from the studio to the car to the school.
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:23.039
Just something that is that is really good.
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:23.760
And do you know what?
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:24.639
Come and take that.
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:25.760
I've been using that, it's helped.
00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:26.239
Have you?
00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:27.840
Have you actually been and it has?
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:34.000
Just a 10-minute quick on my Techno Gym app, there's like a little yoga thing, and I'll just 10 minutes.
00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:34.559
Okay.
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:48.960
Or I say that I'm really going to start doing that, and yet I know that it will get to tomorrow when I have to pick Carlin up from school, and I will I'll be looking at the clock going, I've only got one hour left.
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:50.719
I've got to get this next coat done.
00:59:51.119 --> 01:00:08.639
Like I know, it's all I think that that's 90% of what we have to negotiate when we're, you know, in the studios or navigating, going from the job to the studio or whatnot.
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:11.760
Like it's just self-discipline.
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:12.559
Discipline.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.119
Yes.
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:15.519
Discipline on all fronts.
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:16.239
Yes.
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:19.760
And I think probably the legal training has helped me with that.
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:20.480
Discipline.
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:29.280
I think uni was probably the only thing that I got out of it really, because you learn so much more on the job than you do in theory.
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:31.280
Um, but discipline.
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:31.760
Definitely.
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:35.280
Deadlines, meeting them, you know, professionalism.
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:38.079
That's definitely something that I've taken away with me.
01:00:38.239 --> 01:00:46.880
And it's also helped even in dra drafting and reading contracts, you know, galleries and this and that, and like just negotiating things.
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:47.440
Yeah.
01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:51.039
So I can't say, you know, I don't regret this skill at all.
01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:58.800
And the the the life lessons that I've gotten from it have really determined the work.
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:01.760
Because if I went to art school, I'd be painting completely different things.
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:03.599
And I wanted to go to art school, by the way.
01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:04.559
I had it second.
01:01:04.719 --> 01:01:07.679
So I put more down as a joke because I didn't think I'd get the marks.
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:10.639
And then when I got the marks, I was like, oh no.
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:14.880
Now now I put it down as number one.
01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:18.639
Because my mum was like, No, you're gonna do this.
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:21.119
And I was like, Mum, I really want to go to Kofa.
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:24.480
At the time it was Kofa at New South Wales University.
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:26.639
University of New South Wales.
01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:28.880
And she was like, No, it's a sign.
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:31.599
And I do sometimes believe in signs.
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:37.039
There are some things that come your way that you think I think everything happens for a reason.
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:38.960
My list was non-existent.
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:46.880
I um I had to find a way of so I I found a way of turning my gymnastics career into my HSE.
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:54.159
So I had all these units from because I was already coaching like every single afternoon after school.
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.800
So I already had this high level accreditation.
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:57.119
Yeah.
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:08.480
And then from there, my boss said, you know, you can, if you don't want to do many subjects at school, you can just do this as part of your HSE, and I just signed your sign your book.
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:08.880
Yep.
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:11.599
And she's like, What do you need to get into art school?
01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:17.760
I said, Oh, just advanced English and a really good drawing exam and good art marks.
01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:18.239
Yes.
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:28.320
And so in from year 10 to year 12, year 10, I did the National Art School Extension HSC thing, which was amazing.
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:31.519
So that just solidified the fact that that's where I was going to be going.
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:32.400
Yes.
01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:38.000
And then year 11 and 12, I think I had 26 free periods across a fortnight.
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:38.320
Yeah.
01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:42.719
I did bare minimum.
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:47.039
Um, but I was still training as well at that time.
01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:49.199
So, you know, I was competing and all of that.
01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:50.559
And then that's amazing.
01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:58.480
Um, yeah, just finished year 12, and yeah, my list was one thing, national art school.
01:02:58.559 --> 01:02:59.440
Yeah, I love that.
01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:01.519
I love that you had that sense of self.
01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:05.519
See, I didn't have that confidence to follow my sense of self.
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:28.000
I relied a lot on what my parents wanted and thought of me and uh the pressure of being the first generation firstborn female to do anything and coming having to come like them coming to this country for opportunity, and then my grandparents coming to this country because of me from over there with my auntie.
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:30.239
So much pressure, yeah.
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:34.480
And even to this day, like my grandma's 86.
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:39.840
I haven't told her it's hard, it would be so hard.
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:48.159
Because she wouldn't know, they also don't have the context to understand what that means to you really, as well.
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:50.320
They're seeing things from their lens.
01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:50.719
Yeah.
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:52.239
I don't know that I would.
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:59.119
I mean, I can acknowledge that I think that my I have come from a really open-minded family.
01:03:59.280 --> 01:03:59.519
Yeah.
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:08.320
Equally, I often wonder to myself how my family raised me and my sister, because my sister is the polar opposite of me with my kids.
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.599
Like we're so different.
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:15.199
So studious, and she was so she needed to get those good marks.
01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:19.519
And granted, now she's a clinical psychologist and is extremely good at what she does.
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.599
But I look at her every day and I go, wow, you're so amazing.
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:24.719
We're so different.
01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:34.320
But I I don't know that I want to have your brain, and I don't know that I want to be like, I I'm so happy just being teenage.
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:38.800
Sure, I think we're all so different as kids.
01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:39.519
Yeah.
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:46.400
And I like I look at my daughter now and I just think, you know, I'm curious to see what she ends up doing.
01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:49.280
She is really, really creative, but she's also really sporty.
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:52.639
So she's it's like I understand her very, very well.
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:56.960
I just hope for my kids that they do develop that sense of self.
01:04:57.119 --> 01:04:57.440
That's it.
01:04:57.519 --> 01:04:58.000
That's 100%.
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:06.320
Once they develop that, I think there is no uh, you know, external no one can peer pressure you if you know who you are.
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:07.440
You know what I mean?
01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:13.840
Like you make your decision in life, you make a bed, you learn from them, you move on, it's okay.
01:05:14.079 --> 01:05:15.920
And I feel the same way with this change.
01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:20.960
Like I see this as the long game, I'm playing a long game.
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:34.079
I tried the law for 15 years, I've gave it my best, but I knew deep down inside I felt more like me when I'm working on these things, not on those things in the law.
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:41.039
Like sitting in front of a computer for me, I just sometimes I felt like, man, I just feel like dead inside.
01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:45.840
Like I just can't, I just can't write any more advices about I don't know.
01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:54.639
I just need to paint, you know, like I just want to be creative and I just wanted to express myself and but I think it doesn't even like it doesn't the expressing yourself.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:59.760
Like I look at, for example, my husband, like I can tell so clearly the the project.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:03.119
That he works on that just light him up.
01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:04.880
Like he's so creative.
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:18.239
And he gets to do these amazing projects where people like these event management companies will come to him and just say, This is the vision for this project with the signage.
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:25.440
We have this DJ booth that needs to be wrapped in this rug, and or this thing needs to look like floating metal.
01:06:25.519 --> 01:06:27.280
Like they just have these outrageous visions.
01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:29.840
And then it's a good idea.
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:32.719
He finds a way of bringing these things to life.
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:37.519
And it's those projects that he literally shows me everything all day long.
01:06:37.599 --> 01:06:39.440
He comes up here, look at this, look at this, look at this.
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:42.159
And it's like that's what being alive feels like.
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:42.559
That's it.
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:45.840
And it's like that's his thing that brings him alive.
01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:51.679
And it's like the more conversations you have with people, I think that's what it comes down to.
01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:56.159
You know, what what is that thing that lights you up every day?
01:06:56.559 --> 01:07:05.679
And sure, it might be creativity, it might be being creative in another way, but reading, cooking, like there's so many different ways of being creative.
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:09.360
But it's you know, thinking of thinking right.
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:09.760
Yeah.
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:21.840
And I think the thing is, is that it takes more courage than I think people realize to back what lights you are.
01:07:22.159 --> 01:07:23.280
Yes, it's easy to do.
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:25.119
It took me a really long time.
01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:28.480
And I did it very, very slowly over many years.
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:29.199
Yes.
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:30.800
And I'm still doing it.
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:31.920
No, I don't.
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:32.800
No, absolutely.
01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:38.960
I feel like I said, art is creating those things, they really teach you about who you are.
01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:47.920
You really get to know uh yourself, especially in the quiet times when you give yourself silence and then that little voice is talking to you.
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:50.320
You really know who you are when that voice is talking.
01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:52.000
Yeah, that's exactly right.
01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:55.280
And on that note, I think we've um we've covered a lot.
01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:56.079
We've covered a lot.
01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:58.400
Hey, hey, what should we title this episode?
01:07:58.559 --> 01:07:59.440
I don't know.
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:05.360
It needs to be like couch discussion or something, couch, couch conversation.
01:08:05.599 --> 01:08:05.840
Yeah.
01:08:06.320 --> 01:08:08.719
No, no, no, the the algorithm won't like that.
01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:09.760
It won't rank very well.
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:11.519
I'll ask, I'll ask Claude too.
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.319
How a lawyer left stable resigning from stability, maybe.
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:18.000
Resigning from stability.
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:18.399
Yes.
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:20.560
Okay, hang on, wait, I have to write that down.
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:23.199
Resign okay, can you I'll google, I'll text you.
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:24.239
I'll text you this video.
01:08:26.239 --> 01:08:27.119
Um cool.
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:27.760
All right.
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:29.680
Um until next time, friends.
01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:37.840
I'm gonna you're gonna have to, I will do like a a nice fancy intro like I do and try and be like really professional about it.
01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:43.520
So just you're gonna have to send me all of your art prize list and you know your bio and all of that.
01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:49.920
And I'll do like an official an official non-couch intro.
01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:50.800
Love it.
01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:53.039
Um, but yeah, is there anything else you want to land on?
01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:54.079
Yeah, just one more thing.
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:54.560
One thing.
01:08:54.720 --> 01:08:55.439
Yes, go.
01:08:55.840 --> 01:09:09.039
So over the past two years, I've been sitting on this idea about doing these um workshops where I bring creative thinking and methods of creative thinking into the workplace, so in the corporate space.
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:33.920
Um and we're a team that are available Australia-wide, and we are looking to basically our services are offered to corporations, law firms, anyone in the professional services, looking for a team bonding experience, looking for you know a creative activity that really brings together people, and we are offering that, and it's called Studio Five to Nine, and it's a creative thinking company.
01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:37.680
So that's what I've been working on in the background for the last year as well.
01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:40.000
Um, you can find us on LinkedIn.
01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:43.199
Send me the website for the show notes and everything.
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:43.760
Sure.
01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:50.319
Because as you can hear, Rebecca has a perspective that many people need.
01:09:51.199 --> 01:09:53.279
And you must be very relatable.
01:09:53.359 --> 01:10:01.039
I can imagine you in a corporate setting just driving this creativity thing into these rigid penguins in their suits.
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:07.199
Yeah, and it's not about like turning them into artists or anything, it's it's more just giving them a place to play.
01:10:07.359 --> 01:10:11.600
And I think with play, like as adults, when do we play?
01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:11.920
Yeah.
01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:22.079
You know, and with play and joy and uh non-pressure environment that we create, you really come up with brilliant ideas.
01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:22.479
Yeah.
01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:29.359
It's when you take a walk, it's when you have a shower, it's those moments of you're almost doing nothing.
01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:34.560
That's when you've got to create space for inspiration to come in, that is for sure.
01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:37.279
Oh, that is so good.
01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:40.640
I can't wait to see what you um what you do with all of that too.
01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:43.119
Definitely exciting, definitely, yes.
01:10:43.279 --> 01:10:46.319
I'll have to I'll have to come and be a flyer on the wall on one of those days.
01:10:46.399 --> 01:10:46.960
That'd be funny.
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:47.680
Sure, sure.
01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:48.800
I'll come and help you with them.
01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:49.199
Yes.
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:52.560
I'll I'll come, I'll I'll come and be like a stand-in for you.
01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:55.039
Can give me something to do because I just think that'd be fun.
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:55.840
Yeah.
01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:56.720
Done.
01:10:56.880 --> 01:10:57.199
Done.
01:10:57.359 --> 01:10:57.760
All right.
01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:00.640
Um, we'll see you again next time, guys.
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:02.239
Thanks for tuning in.
01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:02.960
Thank you.