Developing Consistency Within a Creative Practice with Zoe Sernack

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My guest today is the unbelievably talented Zoe Cernak.
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Zoe's practice explores the Australian landscape as a place of memory, emotion and connection.
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Through layering, obscuring, revealing and reworking, each piece evolves as a visual conversation between structure and spontaneity.
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Zoe graduated from the National Art School and has held nine solo exhibitions across Australia.
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She's been a finalist in multiple art prizes, including the 2026 Salon de Refuse, and teaches workshops interstate every month.
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Most excitingly, she has just completed a major commission for the redevelopment of Nippan Hospital, which she is sharing publicly for the very first time right here on this podcast episode.
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Upcoming for her is an incredible exhibition at Brenda Collaghan Fine Arts in Redfern, which opens on August 13th.
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And the surprise topic that I gave her today was developing consistency within a creative practice.
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Now, this is a really, really beautiful, honest conversation.
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I think you guys are gonna get a lot out of this one.
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So grab yourselves a cupper, let's dive in.
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No plan, no prep, no agenda, just two creatives having a chat.
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I'm Karin Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life.
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My guests are artists at every stage of the journey.
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And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear.
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So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us.
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This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered.
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Let's go.
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Hello, lovely.
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How are you?
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Oh, I'm not working.
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Hold on two seconds.
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I can hear you.
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I know.
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Look, I hear I'm trying to be your audio special, but not working too well.
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There you go.
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I'll just have to hold the phone.
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Oh no, that's fine.
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You can keep me on track.
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That way your arm gets a little bit sore.
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So if I speak over time and you need to go, it will be up propped.
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I was all organized and I wasn't.
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And then I thought to myself, oh my god, it's been so long since I've actually seen you.
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I think the last time I ran into you was like last year at oh it would have been affordable art fair or something.
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Yeah, I think it was.
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I think it was.
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God, how much has happened since then?
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A lot, actually.
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A lot.
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I feel like I've had some chunky, yeah.
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I feel like I've had some really a chunky two, three year period, actually, for whatever lots of different reasons, but um, which I'm happy to talk about.
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But yeah, but it's um, yeah, it's been I think life's just chunky in general, basically.
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It is, but like the thing is, like I've been um like before each one of these calls, I like I take a little bit of time to like just really like think about the artist that I'm talking about, because when I come up with these surprise topics, they're very intuitive.
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They're not like me going through your artist statement and piecing something out, they're what I kind of see in the artist myself.
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That's cool.
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When I was thinking about you, like I think I was actually trying to think back to the first time I I actually remember.
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Well, I actually remember because I was thinking, well, I was actually thinking you was like, I must have found you.
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I'm guessing on Instagram, and then I contacted you, and that I think that was I hadn't gone into doing big boards yet, and I contacted you and said, Hey, could you help me?
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Yeah, can you help me find somebody that could make some big boards for me?
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And you were straight away like, yep, here's a number, here's da-da-da-da-da-da.
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Yeah, I gave you Pedro's number.
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Yeah, well, yeah, and Maggie, and Maggie's like a, you know, I don't know, Maggie from Creative Stuff is just like a little fairy godmother to me.
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Oh, isn't she?
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Oh, she's amazing.
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They've made all of my panels and framed all my work and they come and pick everything up, they drop everything off.
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There you go.
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See, they didn't even know they were gonna get a shout out today, and I know they listened to the podcast, so there you go.
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Creative stuff.
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Very deserving.
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Okay, don't worry, I'll put their link in the show notes now.
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Um, but I just thought, even just straight away, the fact that you shared that information because it's a funny world that we're in, as in every probably world that people can be particularly cagey or not, you know, want to share information, this and that.
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And straight away you did not hesitate at all.
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I was like, I like this girl, like she's cool.
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Like the fact that you were you got asked a question and you're like, Yeah, here, here's the information, go for it.
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Yeah, but I appreciate that.
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I just think, oh look, that's what you see is what you get with me.
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And it's like there is no, like, this is the one thing is that like there's not I just don't think that there's any reason to be protective or um and I think that if you are that kind of person, you attract more of it to yourself.
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You end up building all this resistance around your practice and all this fear of people stealing things.
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And yeah, I just don't think it serves anyone.
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And it's like at the end of the day, if we can't celebrate each other and help each other win, then you know, like you just end up becoming a you know a grouch.
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Yes, 100%, 100%.
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There's no need for that.
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So I was sitting and I was thinking about Zoe, and I was thinking, what's one word that comes to mind when I think about Zoe?
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And do you know what?
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The one thing that I've observed in you right from the word go is your consistency, developing consistency within a creative practice because you have been damn consistent in getting into art prizes.
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In fact, weren't you on that like top artist list at some stage for getting into finalists on that?
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What was that?
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I don't know.
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I mean, that's good if I was, but that's not something I know about.
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It was, I think it was, I don't know whether it was last year or the year before, but I remember it was something to do with the art prizes calendar, and they put up like this diagram of artists that have been in finalists for lots of different prizes, and your name was on it.
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Oh, I love that.
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I did not know that.
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Oh, really?
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Oh no.
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I'll have to go back and see if I can find it for you.
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Um but you've been consistent in getting into prizes, you've been consistent in getting your work out there in front of people, and then I think I started seeing your work in the flesh when you were when Sarah Bertles was showing a lot of your work.
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Yeah.
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And um, she's an amazing lady too.
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She's awesome.
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She's awesome.
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Yeah, she's awesome.
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And yeah, so that's what I wanted to throw at you today.
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Developing consistency within a creative practice.
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Because at the end of the day, I mean, I mentor a lot of creative people, and there's a lot of people that want to talk about their ideas.
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They have all of these ideas, and at the end of the day, if we're not in the studio getting our hands dirty, producing a shit ton of work and throwing a lot of pain at the wall and making a lot of mistakes, we actually don't move the ball forward.
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And all I see in you is you're constantly moving the ball forward.
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So I the first question I wanted to ask you is what does a consistent creative practice actually look like for you here and now versus what it did previous?
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Because I know that you've done a lot of things previous to being full-time in the studio.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, well, I think I mean, I think you you've already said it and you've said it in interviews that you've done about your work.
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It is just showing up.
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And I think it's it's funny.
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I've always had this funny sort of relationship with mistakes, and now I've just decided to call them happy mistakes because um, again, like you, we're working with layers, and I think working in layers, you have to get rid of a lot of your fear of starting.
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And because you just put things down, and if you don't like it, you change it.
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And because I am working in layers, I can easily, you know, put a big shape over something that I'm like, that doesn't work.
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So um, and when it comes to yeah, it is it is consistent, it's it is just showing up, it's just making sure that you are spending you you forge that time out every day to make sure that you are creating.
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And that doesn't necessarily mean that I have to be in the studio.
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It could be me going off to the park and taking photographs of reflections, or it could be me having a conversation like this because I know that I'm gonna get a buzz out of this conversation, and that's gonna then propel me to do you know something else creatively afterwards.
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So it's just putting yourself in environments constantly that just keep you excited about what you're doing.
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And if if you aren't excited about what you're doing, it's also reminding yourself that tomorrow is another day.
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Yeah.
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And you can go in there, especially the the practice that I do, you can go in there and you can then make the changes as you seem fit at the time in an intuitive manner.
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So it's um it's about having fun.
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It's having fun with it and not losing, you know, the perspective on the reality is that we are in an evolving world and we're gonna evolve in it, and just making sure that you again show up and just do your best in that moment and see what happens tomorrow.
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Yeah, and I think one of the things that you just said that just landed for me then, which, you know, I think is something worth saying.
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It's like, you know, artists are at all various stages of their career, and there's so like 90% of us are not in the studio full time.
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I mean, I'm lucky enough to be in the studio full time, you're lucky enough to be in the studio full time, but 90% of people are juggling multiple things.
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And I know you're a mum too, so that it's a constant juggle.
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But the thing is, if you create some sort of consistency for yourself to be constantly tapping back in, it means that there's actually less resistance within the studio time.
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So, for example, if you're someone that can only carve out, say, three hours a week, that's fine.
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But those three hours need to be such a priority for you because what happens is if you say to yourself, okay, or if you affirm to the people around you, I think this is one thing that I've probably spoken about that people have heard me rant on about, is that developing creative boundaries for yourself, and you might want to riff off what your boundaries are after this, but if you say to the people around you in your life, okay, this week I've got a block of, I need five hours of studio time, you have to be damn well sure that you're gonna show up for those five hours because the moment that you actually go back on your own word, it means that all the people around you actually don't take you seriously either.
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So the one thing that I'm constantly saying is when people put together, you know, a consistent schedule for themselves or develop those creative boundaries, affirm it out loud, but then you've got to stick to it.
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And what happens is if you begin to stick to your consistency, there's less pressure that comes into the studio with you.
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Yeah, and I also think that once you do do those, say, those three hours, very soon you're gonna want four hours.
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And then you're gonna want five hours because you've proved to yourself that you can find those hours, whether it's half an hour.
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I mean, literally, you know, I've got a son who was into soccer, so he was watching the World Cup this morning, and I just had that itch, and I literally put a big canvas on the ground for the 10 minutes and put a whole lot of gold paint on it this morning, and I was like, yeah, that satisfied me in that moment, and it was literally 10 minutes of doing that.
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So, yeah, and it just like okay, cool.
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I just I made I reacted to my emotions and I just did something that filled my cup up for that moment.
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Um, and you will want it more, and I think when it comes to people, you know, because I do do teaching as well, and people are like, Oh, I haven't done anything for so long, and they're quite timid, which is totally understandable.
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But with then with the people who may be doing an hour a week, they just they're you know, they're just the cobwares are off a little bit and they're just they can stretch out and go, okay, well, this is not so foreign to me emotionally and physically and mentally, and they can throw themselves into it just a with a little bit more kindness.
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So yeah, absolutely.
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And I think the other thing is that when you stop kind of switching out, so to speak, if you put pressure around your life to go, okay, this is my creative time and this is my time where I'm, you know, working on this.
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If you if you start to actually create an ecosystem around your entire creative life, that is, everything feeds into your creativity.
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It's not so much about just being rigid, it's about exactly what you said just then.
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It's like you were feeling the nudge.
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You found a way of creating a sacred creative time for yourself in 10 minutes.
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You know, making breakfast can be a creative pursuit if you allow it to.
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And so it's like creativity cannot be separated from our lives at all, that in my opinion.
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No, and it's not though, too, because you know, if people are driving to work, they've already chosen the kind of music for to match their mood, or they've chosen what clothes to put on to match that.
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You know, it's it's we're all we're all making choices in a creative sense already.
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So it's just being aware of that and going, okay, well, how do I feel today?
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And matching that that creative space to maybe an activity as well.
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So I know there's days where I don't I don't feel like painting is just it's not it's not the day that I'm gonna do any painting.
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Um, so it's like, well, okay, what else can I do?
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Okay, well, maybe I'll get my iPad out and just draw over my paintings or you know, just find another way.
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And there's just obviously there's so many ways that um you can be creative.
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Yeah.
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And what does your system kind of look like for yourself now?
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Because you were previously um you were doing jewellery, weren't you?
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And then things have pivoted, and now you're doing workshops.
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And so far as your rhythm.
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So I've always I've always painted.
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So I basically went straight from high school, straight to the national art school.
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Um like me.
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I didn't realise that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But early days, so it was East Sydney TAFE at this at the stage, and then I went off to Kofar because they were the only ones at the state at that time where they're offering a degree.
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Yeah.
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Did a year there, and then it became the National Arts School, and I got my degree in 2000.
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Oh.
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So yeah, and funnily enough, I um I was there.
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I I did my most of my study when my mum was also there.
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She was at the national art school at the same time doing photography.
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Oh gosh, that's amazing.
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Yeah.
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Well, it was funny because I think a lot of the students were like, wow, I would come back to this environment and do it with my mum.
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But I was like, no, we we were quite happy just to, you know, do our thing.
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So um obviously there's so much self-discovery when you're at art school, but I was like, no, this is all this is I know that this is where I'm meant to be.
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I don't I'm not trying to find my, you know, who I am.
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I know, I know that I want to do art, and that's that was always a given from you know, from a very young age.
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So was that because of your mum?
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Because she was creative as well?
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Uh yeah, well, both both my parents are are really into photography.
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So I've always grown up with dark rooms in our in our homes.
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So I think I was thinking about this the other day because someone asked me a really good question and it triggered things in me.
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And I thought, oh well, I suppose with parents, with photography and being exposed to that, shapes and you know, certain the way you look at the world has probably impacted the way I paint as well, which I've never thought about before until just recently.
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So, um, because obviously it was black and white photography as well.
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It wasn't colour, so it meant, and also, you know, my mum's into lots of patterns and textures and you know, sunsets and sunrises and water, you know, whereas um dad's quite different.
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So um, yeah, so it probably it probably has, you know, obviously there's that creative gene is there.
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Um, and it's yeah, but I just I think it was always painting for me too.
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So so yeah, to answer your question, I was so I was at art school, and while I was at art school, I was working at jewelry stores.
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And then I was like, hold on a second, I can do this myself.
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So I on the side of doing exhibitions um and painting, I started up um some jewelry businesses, and that was the the thing that I would put into stores or be involved in fashion weeks or whatever it was, while and that would help me have those exhibitions and keep painting.
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So it's always been a balance between the two.
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And then having kids um obviously took space.
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So I was like, okay, this is the time where I just need to concentrate on one thing, and painting's always been is always been my thing.
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Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
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I mean, if it's one thing that kids teach you, it's you know, a forced um as much as it's it's kind of in one way it's chaos, and in the other way it's a forced presence.
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And I think a lot of people that like especially for me, I know I've spoken about it before.
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The the one thing that um that you know having a baby taught me was it actually taught me that I had no idea how to stop.
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I didn't realize how much on this constant pace of striving forwards, having goals, continually moving.
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I was like a shark.
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And I still am kind of in the city.
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You're pretty prolific.
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Yeah.
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But it's like I literally had no idea what it felt like to sit still.
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And um, you know how kids just require undivided presence.
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You can't be half there.
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And it was such a jarring thing for me in the early days.
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It took me so long to learn how to just be still.
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And, you know, man, did that change my art?
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Did kids change your art a lot as well?
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It changed in the fact that it wasn't as accessible, and it meant that now I feel like I'm a bit on catch-up as well.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:20.960
Like I feel like, okay, well, now it's time that when I'm here because my time is so precious that the great thing is is it I don't I probably don't think as much as I would have if, you know, if I that time wasn't as precious and so sandwiched between pickups and drop-offs or whatever it is.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.119
So now it's like, no, I'm just gonna get going.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:34.160
And it's it's rewarding because it's sort of a reaction to not being able to indulge in, oh well, I've got time here and there and flop and flop around.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:39.119
So I think it's definitely helped me just bit a bit more laser focused.
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:39.440
I think.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:40.400
Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:46.640
Um I mean I've always wanted I've always I always like the doing and I always like problem solving and all that sort of stuff.
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.440
So that's always been there, but now it's just enhanced.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:51.119
Yeah.
00:19:51.440 --> 00:20:01.519
And so where where did you kind of because it's only recently that you pivoted to being in the studio full time and you changed studios as well, didn't you?
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:05.759
So no, well, what's happened is I've always I've had always had a studio at home.
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:17.440
So um that's something, and again, it's at the front of the house, it's where the kids' bags get dropped and the shoes get left, and it's like, oh mum's got a cool room in here, so I could play with her stuff.
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:26.640
So, you know, it's always the TV, if I'm painting at home, the TV is not important at all, which is crazy because they'll come and go, What are you doing in here?
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:36.720
And so I mean it's quite adorable because my kids have always, you know, if they'll sit underneath my painting table and you know, just keep me company or give me advice on what I need to do.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:49.599
So I've still got that, but I yeah, two months ago, um, I've got a studio in Marrickville, and that's obviously in prep for for this exhibition because I've only got a certain amount of board space.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:21:02.400
And the way that I work is I work on look, I start out with a lot of cat a lot of boards, and then once they start talking to me, then I might be working on, you know, five or six at the same time.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:03.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:09.440
So it's not that, and obviously I don't have that that luxury at home to be working on, you know, large works all at the same time.
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:16.240
So yeah, so I'm in Merrickville now and hopefully this exhibition goes well and I can keep the studio and just keep coming in here every day.
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:17.440
It will.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:18.720
It will go so well.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.200
And I think like, so are you working?
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:27.359
So this is um, correct me if I'm wrong, this is for the Brenda Collaghan Find Arts.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:29.279
Yeah, that's in August, isn't it?
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:33.680
Yes, August the 13th, and um yeah, she's based in Redfern.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:40.319
So we had that we had a funny it was a fun I love one thing I love about just life in general is that how things just link up.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:53.440
You just sort of like, ooh, so Brenda, I saw well, I saw her stand at Sydney Contemporary, and then I started talking to this gorgeous tall woman who I could I picked up very quickly.
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.559
She had a New Zealand accent, and my husband's from New Zealand.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.759
And then we started talking, and then she introduced me to Brenda.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:05.200
And randomly, um, the artist Gabby decided to take a photograph of us.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:06.880
Like then she needed to capture that moment.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.160
So when I look back, it's like she already knew what was about to happen.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:11.359
Oh, that's so funny.
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:12.000
I know.
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:17.279
And then so I thought, oh well, go back on the way home to r and and drop into the gallery.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:22.480
And Brenda's brother was standing in looking after the the gallery space.
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:27.200
He happened to be seeing somebody from where my mother grew up in the country.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.640
And and then I was looking at the I know, and then I was looking at the gallery and I was like, hold on a second.
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.839
This is my sister's, she was my sister's got a fashion label.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.920
This is my sister's old headporters.
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.279
Oh, as if that is all not a sign.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:43.200
That's hilarious.
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:43.759
I know.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:51.519
So I was like, hold on a second, within ho just in within a day, there was such strong, like a pathway being being given to me.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:53.440
It's like, no, no, no, no, no, don't ignore this.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:54.240
Don't ignore this.
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.119
And I had a similar one for Sarah too when I started off with her.
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:04.079
She actually rented out um my studio space to show gal to show some collectors' works in Sydney.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:11.359
And then and I didn't, I don't know, I think we spoke to each other and somehow it came back around and she said, Oh, I really like your work.
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:12.400
I'd like to represent you.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:16.799
And the next thing I know, I'm like, hold on a second, you were the person back then that rented the space, you know.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.359
So it's nice when things like that happen.
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:23.119
Yeah, I like it when things like that happen because it just makes you like, oh, hold on a second.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.839
Like breadcrumbs.
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.240
They're everywhere if you look for them.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:28.880
Yep.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:29.680
I totally.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:30.400
And I love it.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:44.640
I love it because it just it makes sense of sometimes the ca the chaotic world or the un, you know, the a world that we're in where you're like trying to make sense of your own creative headspace, but also the creative headspace, a creative world that you put yourself into as well.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:45.039
Yeah.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:50.880
So it's nice when there's a nice little connections that make you feel like, okay, no, no, no, no, it's all making sense.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.039
Yeah, it's all linking up.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:00.160
And like with this um this show coming up, are you working bigger than you usually are?
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:06.400
Because I haven't seen heaps and heaps of like you obviously don't work as big as me, I don't think.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.359
I would happily I would happily do so.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:18.079
It's more, I think, maybe some of the galleries haven't haven't been the galleries that I need had big works for.
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.559
And that's the great thing about Brenda is I know I can go big.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.799
Like I can go bigger than what I'm going now.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:28.079
So I the smallest works, and I think there's gonna be about nine of them, something.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:36.079
The smallest works will be 50 by 50, but then the biggest works, there's a few of these are probably maybe 180.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:37.279
Oh, perfect.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.680
Oh, I'm so excited to see that.
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:46.880
I know I am too, and it's a great space because she's got super high ceilings because it's an old warehouse style um building, great building.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:51.359
And um for me to look, I mean, I'm in the studio right now and to look around there.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:01.440
They're all talking to each other and having lots of conversations, but to put them into a into a space that they're gonna have lots of white space around them and they're gonna talk individually, I'm looking forward to that.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:06.160
Yeah, and I think for your work, it's kind of similar with your work.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.240
Uh like my work needs a lot of space around it as well.
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:18.720
Because I mean, we're both dealing with layers, we're both dealing with texture, we're both dealing in many ways with pattern.
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.039
And I mean, I think your compositions are obviously a lot different to mine.
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.279
They're a lot more structured in a way.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:37.920
And in actual fact, when you were talking about photography before and your parents, what landed in me, I was like, that's really interesting because photography, because you know I majored in photography at NAS.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:38.640
Oh, I didn't.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:38.799
Okay.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.279
Yeah, so I was the dark room person.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:47.839
So when people say dark room photography, my little my little sparkly brain just switches back on again.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:54.400
And it's interesting that you're dealing, I mean, you can explain a little bit more about your process.
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:55.920
I might get you to do that.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:10.319
But when I look at your works, it's like there is a definite um consideration in contrast in your work, like the shapes and the way you almost stencil shapes in.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:17.759
I mean, that's kind of the way that I perceive light when I'm photographing something.
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:18.559
Yeah, right.
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:24.240
I don't know if you make that same connection, but it was just something that landed when you were saying that.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.720
But maybe talk a little bit about your process.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:33.759
Yeah, so I think you uh I mean we work in such similar ways, but you're you're excavating whereas I'm laying on top.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:39.279
So um, so and when you talk about stenciline, there is a lot of stenciling that goes on.
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:48.400
So funnily enough, a few people have seen my work um and haven't seen it actually in the flesh, they actually think that I'm sticking things down onto board, which I don't.
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:49.680
Fascinating.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:50.160
Okay.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.799
Yeah.
00:26:51.039 --> 00:27:14.720
So um, but yeah, when it comes to what I'm doing, I mean I will I will do sketches, but they're more they're more sort of a point of just getting some good, strong compositions down, and then I might use them to start a work off, but they're not something that I go back to and and and mimic and go, okay, yep, no, I've got to put that there and I've got that there.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:16.240
So it is very intuitive.
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:16.559
Yeah.
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:24.480
So the way I start is I'll put down some really strong shapes, almost stencil-like, and just see if that composition works.
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:25.759
And if it does, great.
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.480
If it doesn't, then I need to shift things again and and layer and layer and layer.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:40.799
Um, but it's just look, it's really looking at something and giving it its own breathing space.
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:56.640
And it and when I get to a point where I've got so many shapes and outlines and block colour put down, I'll start going, okay, well, what's not looking good, what's not, you know, matching up well, and just keep layering on top of it until it I get it right, basically.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.559
But with doing that, I'm getting so much more depth.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.519
It's not sort of like all a whole lot of cutouts and then I'm done.
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:09.119
It's sort of the textures go in, the dots go in, the scraping goes in, wood burning goes in.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:22.000
Um, so it becomes a whole work about not just the composition, the stencil-like shapes, but okay, there's movements, there's a rhythm that needs to go through the whole work, little stories.
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.480
So it's sort of these reimagined landscapes.
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.079
They're conversations.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:37.359
I think that's what I kind of pick up in your work is that the various elements that you've got across a panel, they all act as um talking points almost.
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:42.079
And there's a different conversation that goes that kind of moves across each panel.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:47.519
And I found it fascinating that you just said then that you're sitting in your studio and they're all talking to each other.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:57.519
I am genuinely curious to see your work in this um space because I actually haven't been to Brenda's space before.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:00.559
So I'm really looking forward to coming and visiting your show.
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:01.920
It's already in the diary.
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:03.359
Oh, cool, awesome.
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:10.160
But is that also like because before I forget, there's one thing that's on my mind that I've got to ask about.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.440
You got the knee pen hospital commission.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:14.000
Yes.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.319
Yeah.
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:23.920
So I just I like because I knew you were we were going to talk today, so I quickly called the um health infrastructure and the creative creative creative producer there to say, can I talk about it?
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:24.559
Can I talk about it?
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:26.960
So you're the you're the first person that I'm talking about.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:27.680
Goody.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.279
Goody, goody, goody.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:29.759
Don't worry.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.720
We're gonna we're we're we're gonna promote the socks off this thing.
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:34.480
I could not be more happy for you.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:43.920
Congratulations, those big tenders are um they're um, you know, you apply and you apply and you apply, and to get one that's a complete win.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.240
So Yeah, well, I've never done it before.
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:50.000
This is the only one I've done, and it's the only one that I've applied was sort of applied for, I guess.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:54.240
So I it was really interesting because I'm so new to this process.
00:29:54.319 --> 00:30:03.599
Um, and it's you know been three years and now it's all being put in now because a complete hospital redevelopment, it's a billion-dollar job situation.
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:04.079
Yeah.
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:09.279
Um and the first the first building, so stage one and stage two.
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:15.359
So stage one, uh Nicola Moss, who's with Art House, she did the internal walls for that one.
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:15.839
Yep.
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:28.640
And for me, I think they started off with with putting forward 13 artists, and then there were three artists, and we all went in there and talked about what we were gonna do.
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:30.079
Um, and then I got it.
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:31.599
So good.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:49.200
Yeah, and it was nice too because I remember going up and it was nerve-wracking as anything, because I sort of went up into this room on top of the hospital, and there must have been oh, maybe 25 people in a room, but then there was a massive screen of maybe another 20 people.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.519
So, and I'm like, you know, and I just was like, oh, and I was nervous.
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:55.759
I was nervous, and I was just like, oh, what am I gonna say?
00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:08.720
And everyone's introducing themselves, yeah, the you know, the head of the of Indigenous affairs or their head of brain surgery or this or that, or the nurses commission, or whatever it is, and and I was like, this is nerve-wracking.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.119
Um, I was like, oh, I'm Zoe, I'm the artist.
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:20.240
Um, but what was amazing about it is that where I was standing, I was looking across the view towards the Blue Mountains.
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:27.279
And we as children we spent because we had a house in Wetworth Falls um for years from when I was at the house.
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:28.559
Beautiful area.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:29.759
Love that area.
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:30.240
Yeah.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.000
And then my mum ended up buying a property in Mount Wilson.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:44.400
So I've spent a lot of time in the Blue Mountains, and it was just so nice to get this commission and to be able to over five floors had these big works.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:51.279
And some of the works are I don't know the exact measurements, but some of them are nine metres by maybe five or six metres.
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:52.799
So that's fantastic.
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.599
There's a lot of them, and they're big, and so and they gave me certain themes.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:05.440
So there's, you know, floor and fauna, there's um the valley earth, there's all these beautiful themes that I then had to work out how to do it.
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.880
And I use the same method on like how I paint.
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:15.279
I had wooden panels, I painted on them, and then we computer generated that laid them up on the computer.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:20.240
So I had all these different elements, like 50 different elements, and I made compositions on the computer.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.920
So it's very organic and they're printed on matte final.
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:29.359
So when you see that process very well because I thought my husband does full-time.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:35.519
That's so my husband prints and manufactures exactly that and then stores exactly that.
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:40.799
So I need to tell you process, but no, tell everyone else.
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:41.519
Tell everyone else.
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:50.960
No, it was it was interesting and it was really nice because obviously, you know, there was some sampling, and then when it came to these mats, it just it looks great because you could see the wood texture.
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:53.759
You can see my little nits that I've done with the wood burner.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:59.200
You can like it looks might like my work blown up to you know 11 meters or whatever it the sizes that they are.
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:04.799
And it's so yeah, next week I'm actually, I think all the works will be in and I will see it for the first time.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:06.720
Oh, that is so exciting.
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:10.799
You need to make sure that you celebrate this win, don't just move through it.
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:17.279
Sometimes I think when we accomplish these big things, we're so quick to kind of keep moving on to the next thing.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:27.680
But make sure you take some time for yourself to really um really reflect on this win because you know, you never know where these opportunities are gonna lead to.
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:35.519
And I think um with a lot of these big tenders, you know, you get one that looks very good on a CV, it gives you more potential to get another one.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:52.319
So and now that I feel like I've I've because it was the only one I've done, it's really been fantastic to learn so much in how to go from an idea to from some sketches or from some examples to actually doing it.
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:56.079
And it's been um, yeah, it's been rewarding.
00:33:56.240 --> 00:34:01.039
And also the the you know, the people at health infrastructure and the architects, they were just amazing.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:05.839
They were really so it was been really, really lovely, supportive little little group.
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:07.920
And it's just yeah, it's nice.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:12.079
And if, you know, it sounds a bit of a downer, but um, he's all totally fine now.
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.880
But my husband went through cancer two years ago.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:31.119
So be able to well, he's he's thank you, he's totally, you know, over it now and he's healthy now, but just going through spending so much time in hospitals and you know, uh people will say, you know, the nurses and how many people are there for you?
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:42.480
And you're thinking, okay, well, this is such a responsibility and a legacy piece for me to do this, to know that I want to make those nurses who are having extremely long hours feel some sort of serenity.
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:47.119
I want those people going into hospitals to have a level of escapism when they see my work.
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:55.519
And and because they are such large works, I really do hope there's there's the little moments where they're like, oh, okay, I've just forgotten why I'm here.
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:56.719
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.400
It's special, it's even more special for that reason.
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:15.679
And I think as well, like, you know, there's so much science now in the zeitgeist to speak to the importance of art and how it neurologically literally changes our brains when we're around art.
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.360
And I mean, there's so many of these hospital projects, there's um, there's so many redevelopments.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:34.480
So I think there's a lot of opportunity for artists out there, and you know, we've all got to just dig deep and keep applying for these things, and um, yeah, but you got the opportunity, and I cannot wait to see the photos.
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:37.840
Yeah, I can't wait to see it.
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:43.280
I'm just yeah, it's gonna be and it's it's it's also I love Nicola's work and I have for a while.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:49.119
Um, and she does like I layer with paint, she layers with um hand painted um paper.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:36:01.360
So it's really nice that th even though they're in separate buildings, it the works speak to each other to for more of a unified um output for you know for for one building to the next.
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:03.440
So it's um yeah, it feels nice.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:04.880
It feels nice and it's it's yeah.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:10.639
So next week we'll go and check it out and see what it looks like, and I'll probably be like, Whoo, that's a big one.
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:16.079
And I think it'll also expi it inspire me to just work bigger and bigger and bigger, hopefully.
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:30.639
Uh well, I tell you what, what I might have to do, I might have to uh get a wiggle on, and what I'll do is I'll edit this one quick and I'll get it out, and then you can tag me in the photos and we'll put your interview up so that we can cross-link everything for the conversation.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:31.760
So that'll be good.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:32.159
Yeah.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:45.039
And um, yeah, like I I think as well, you've you've obviously developed this ongoing rhythm for yourself now within your creative practice.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:54.239
And I'm curious to know because you're actually one of my beautiful friends did one of your workshops up in Brisbane.
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.440
So you're flying interstate to do workshops as well.
00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:59.599
So you're super busy at the moment.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:00.000
Yeah.
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:01.920
How did all of that come about?
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:03.360
How are you finding all of that?
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:05.199
I'm trying to think how it came about.
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:15.760
I I got asked by the Grampians brushes, which they um it's um, they do them three times a week.
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.599
They do a summer brushes and then a textile one and then one in September.
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:26.639
And they the I the the woman who was running that had asked me, and just again, I think husband, life, whatever it was.
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:29.760
Oh, and we're renovating the whole house in the middle of that as well.
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.519
So I had to put that on hold.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:34.480
And then when the time was right, she's like, Well, how about you come down to September?
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:43.599
And I think that jump started that was two years ago or whatever that was, and that jump started, was like, okay, well, this is a hefty six days of teaching.
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:47.519
Um, if I can do this, two days will be a breeze.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:53.760
Um, and it was amazing because you go down there and there's 20, there's probably about 25, 30 other tutors.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:38:08.159
So for us as teachers, we're learning as well because we've got artists from all different levels of, you know, we've got Archibald finalists, we've got this, we've got, we've got all these people, people who travel around the world with their the art.
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:14.480
And so you teach during the day and then you all get together at night and you sort of, you know, you're a bouncing ideas off each other.
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.159
So it's like a residency.
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:17.760
Sounds like a residency.
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:19.760
Yeah, probably, yeah, yeah, probably.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:24.639
So I've only done I've only done one residency, I think, but that was a solo situation.
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:26.400
I wasn't around other people.
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.280
So um I haven't experienced that yet.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:44.079
So um, yeah, so that started that off, and then I think companies have just started, uh, you know, art centres have just started, or companies who to do this sort of thing have just asked me to to do a weekend workshop.
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:46.639
So I just did Melbourne last weekend.
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:48.800
I am having a couple of months off.
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:55.280
I'll do um Bien Artie in Brisbane and then I'm going to Western Australia for one.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:56.800
I'll do one in Sydney.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:01.519
So it's a really nice way for me to tap out of motherhood for a weekend.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:01.920
Yeah.
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:04.960
Um go, yeah, hubby, you do it.
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:18.719
Um, but also I think it's also it's it's interesting, especially with this exhibition, that for me to go off and problem solve very quickly for other people within two days, and then come back to my own work as well.
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.360
With it kind of freshens me up a bit.
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:46.480
Um so yeah, and I I enjoy it because it's as you know, and all artists know, you spend a lot of time on your own, and it is really nice to be in a room most of mostly women, and there's that community feel, and you're all patting each other on the back and you're going, no, that's great, and things that you can't see someone else can see, and it's this really nice, sort of really supportive environment.
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:55.760
Um and I like it, and I like the fact that I can dip in and be super social for that, you know, three three days or whatever it is, and come back and be an introvert.
00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:58.880
I think it's interesting, actually.
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:06.800
Like, I've been navigating a little bit of this myself because I obviously just came back from the corridor project residency.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.559
It was a couple of weeks back now.
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:13.679
I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do an episode on like the follow-up and reflection on that.
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:15.440
So I won't get too much into it.
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:31.440
But the thing that was really interesting to me is like I I don't think I've stopped in the studio for probably oh, I'm gonna say over two, like haven't really had a holiday or you know, even longer than two days out of the studio.
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.519
It's just been constant for me.
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:41.440
And so for me to actually make work not in the studio, I didn't realize how much of a difference it would make.
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:44.559
And then I've just so I've gotten back.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:49.519
The timing for everything with with me was really interesting because I finished those two works for the US.
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:54.480
They got shipped off like just after I kind of got back from the residency.
00:40:54.559 --> 00:41:07.599
And now for the first time, I have this clear studio space with all of this inspiration that I've picked up and the feedback from the other artists, and then we had an amazing crit session with Lucy Stranger.
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.639
Um there were so many amazing things that happen.
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:16.239
And so I kind of had to get back, park all of those ideas until this US work was done.
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:24.400
And now, now that that's done, I've literally come in here today for the first time to a blank studio.
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:32.960
Like all the panels on my walls are fresh panels, so I'm like quite literally exploded when I got in here today.
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.320
Yeah, and I'm approaching things so differently.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.800
Okay, but it's different.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.719
What's the main thing that's different?
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:56.559
So instead of being a little bit more structured to my composition, so with the the excavated landscapes, I structure them like because the bones of the landscape are kind of the most important, I have to think backwards from most artists.
00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:01.360
So when most artists are building up in order to resolve, my first layers are more important.
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:04.000
And so do you take photos?
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:05.679
Or do you just remember?
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.119
No, no, I do take photos, but it's interesting.
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:20.400
So I actually start from really abstract, um, like walking drawings and plain egg wash sketches and little thumbnail studies that I would normally do.
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:31.519
And that just helps me think about the environment in a more like in a less literal way, because colour is something that actually begins the process for me.
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.159
Like I'll see a combination of colours and I'll go, oh, those colours are going to be layered.
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:45.280
When it comes to the composition itself, there'll be kind of elements from the abstract drawings that I almost piece together.
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:54.079
I'll use some photos and then sometimes I'll pull things in to like procreate and layer things, but usually not.
00:42:54.159 --> 00:43:02.480
Like it's usually a combination between sketches on site and images and somehow they all come together.
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:12.400
But with this work that I've just attacked today, so I essentially, when I went to the Corridor project, I produced all of these small works on paper.
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:22.079
There's something really immediate about them that I really like, and that immediacy gets lost in all the layering and the excavating.
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:37.280
And I've been trying to find a way, I'm talking years now, to figure out this balancing point as to how I can get still the structure with the excavated landscapes alongside a bit more of an abstract approach.
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:46.800
And it would be harder for you too, because for me, if I'm not not sure if I'm successful or not, but if I need that freshen to come on, I can just do a wash over the whole thing.
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:50.400
Or I can do, you know, big brush strokes that are loose and this and that.
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.119
Whereas all your stuff has been it's underneath the surface.
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:55.599
Yeah, first of all, said, Yeah, it's difficult.
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:55.840
Yeah.
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:59.760
And so what I did today was I just came in and I kind of thought.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.079
But you know, I've got one drawing that there's something about it that I just really like.
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:05.199
And I thought, you know what?
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.679
I'm just gonna block in some shapes first.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.159
I'm not even gonna think, I'm not gonna plan.
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:11.599
I'm just gonna block in some shapes.
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:16.880
I'm gonna work really abstract, like what I did on these um works on paper.
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:24.480
And there's some key elements on this work on paper that are clearly the structures of trees and rock formations.
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:32.159
And I thought to myself, well, what if what if the background was actually more abstract and less kind of layered?
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:36.239
And then it was just the trees that were kind of blocked up.
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:46.159
So I'm I'm playing around with how I can kind of move things forwards and backwards, but not do the whole thing as excavated.
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:49.119
Anyway, this is me just thinking we've No, but that's the thing.
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:50.880
I feel like that's what we all do as artists.
00:44:50.960 --> 00:45:00.880
We sort of get to a point like, okay, it could be subtle changes and we don't realize it, or we have to be really mindful of some big changes we want to make so we can push ourselves into a different sort of dimension.
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:07.679
It's it's yeah, we're constantly teaching ourselves um on how to do things that are new and and different.
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.679
And so we do feel like I feel like we're artists are a little bit like octopuses, like octopiers.
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:12.079
Oh, sorry.
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:19.760
We are, which are these creatures where if we can we know how to open the jar and we've done it 10 times, we're like, okay, well, how do how can we do something different now?
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:26.079
How do we, how do we, you know, turn the jar upside down and put some paint on it and make it a bit more difficult for ourselves?
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:27.199
Well, that's it.
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:50.559
And I think like there's always like a key thing, I think, that we all have that we're chewing on that we're like for me, the one thing in my work that I've always battled with, and I know I've had conversations with the girls at curatorial, and it's like finding a balance between having a lot of movement and a lot going on and areas in order to rest.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:59.599
So inevitably, what happens when I excavate is I get a little bit sander happy, and I will just keep excavating and excavating.
00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:02.239
But can you not put the surface back on top?
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:05.920
Yes, well, that's what I that's what I've been starting to do.
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:30.960
I've been starting to kind of block things over the top, which feels really foreign to me, but it's like I can just I've got this like gut feeling that this new kind of method that I'm testing out with these few new panels, because I'm starting differently, it's like it's broken this um, this rigidity or this box that I've kind of put myself in.
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:38.480
And it's like, okay, well, I'm just gonna break this box, I'm gonna start completely differently, and I'm gonna see where this leads.
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:45.519
So I'm not and I'm because I'm like, yes, there's always people waiting for work and things like that.
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:50.559
But I'm like, in my head, I'm giving myself a couple of months now to experiment.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:52.159
I think that's important.
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:58.800
I think you do have to honor, honor your time in the way that you feel like it's necessary and just see what happens.
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:04.079
But I feel like the last two works, well, the word, I don't know how many works you sent to Seattle, but those works seemed a little bit different too.
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:05.199
Yeah, they were.
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:21.519
They I've been slowly nudging myself further and further outside the box and testing new things as I go, but it's a balancing app because I mean the galleries know your previous work, and so in the back of my head, I'm like, they're expecting this.
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:26.079
I can't just throw the baby out with the bath water and do something completely different.
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:27.039
No, no, no.
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.239
And you can, you can really stuff yourself up because you can go, oh, well, that works.
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:32.639
Like literally the work I'm looking at right now.
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:40.239
Um, and it's it's I shouldn't have done this, but I know the work will be fine once, but it's requiring a lot more work than what I thought.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:47.679
I basically almost mimics on the first, very first layer a the Hawkesbury art prize finalist piece I put into it.
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:55.760
And I just know that I've I've always liked it, and it was something, you know, I was like, okay, well, like it got into it into an art prize, so therefore someone liked it there too.
00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:24.159
But I've just I've already given myself a preconceived idea of how it should end up, and now I'm like, oh, now I've just got to ruin that and start fresh and give it its its own journey and its own personality and it's you know, and not yeah, and I think it's important as artists that we have that courage to do that because we can get caught up in like, oh well, you know, they know that work and they like that work, and I've got to try to keep on that that vein of things, but sometimes the beauty is in the change.
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:25.119
That's it.
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:35.840
And I think as well, when you're with a good gallery that allows you to have flexibility, like I'll just speak directly to the girls at curatorial, you know.
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:50.000
I've had stages over the last four years that I've pivoted and I've needed to get something out of my system, and you know, probably it hasn't worked, it hasn't been successful, only to come back to what I'm really doing now and getting that stronger.
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:58.239
And so I think artists need to be allowed to make, you know, tragic mistakes at times.
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:13.760
And it's like I'm, you know, it's always this balance between, you know, structuring, you know, your practice and having enough spontaneity, which is giving you um flexibility to shift where you need to.
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:22.480
And I think, I think, you know, that's what the the residency and that's what these little works on paper, you know, have really done.
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:31.360
It's actually Phoebe Stone who said to me, like, we were doing a crit session with uh Lucy Stranger that was amazing.
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:41.280
And, you know, she, I don't think she's very familiar with all my previous work, but um, she's quite an intuitive being, young Phoebe Stone.
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:45.280
And um, she said, you know, you're you're excavating.
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.119
It's it has, it's always been a way of me excavating and kind of working on myself, my internal world.
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:51.599
Okay.
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:58.000
And so it's like this constant, incessant need to grow and get better, and what else can I get out of this?
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:04.239
And it's like that shark mentality, that constant need to get further and further and further.
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:11.119
So are you are you looking for, is there is it are you doing it in in the sense that you're like you're looking for that aha moment?
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:12.960
I'm looking for a feeling.
00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:19.119
So I'm looking for this same feeling that I got with one of uh like it's a whole story.
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:33.920
We I could go into like a whole whole podcast on the initial story, but essentially, you know, one of the first l landscapes that I ever painted, it just gave me this feeling of like, oh, I can't even explain.
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.400
I can't, it was like this ineffable feeling.
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:40.639
And I know when my works hit that because I get it again.
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:45.199
So I know the works that are on, I know the works that are really successful.
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:49.039
So these two works for Seattle, I got that feeling.
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:51.199
And I was No, and it was obvious that you did.
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:52.559
They were really strong works.
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:57.920
That I feel I I and it's like I'm gonna say it, I think they're brilliant works.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:58.079
Yeah.
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:04.400
And it's like that I can't always say that about all my paintings, but I am genuinely proud of those two works.
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:09.679
And I think, you know, it's almost like this feeling of deja vu.
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:22.159
And I don't know whether you get this, but when I hit a point of getting to exactly what I'm intending on digging for, it's almost like the works drop into me like I've painted them in the future.
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:23.760
And I'm like, oh, well, duh.
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:32.800
Like, of course, like it's a really bizarre feeling, and I can't, I can't put my finger on it, but it's a see, I think I might get it differently.
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:41.679
Yeah, I think I get it differently in the sense that I'll have a number of works and they just won't work, and I'll keep painting and painting and painting and painting.
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:43.679
I'm like, no, we need to get this going.
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:47.840
But then there'll be something else that the first layer, there was something about it.
00:51:47.920 --> 00:52:00.079
I'm like, no, no, no, I'm just gonna leave you alone for like three or four weeks, and then I come back to it, and you're like, wow, yeah, we had something that was good from the get-go, and now I know what to do with you, but I gave you the space that you needed.
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.639
Now I'm and it's this great feeling of like, yeah, yeah, okay.
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:09.440
I gave you, I gave you space, I gave myself space, and I just it just works.
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:10.960
And you're like, Yes, okay.
00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:12.639
Why can't that happen with all of them?
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:16.880
But I think the struggle, I also like the struggle.
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:32.880
I like the work, I like, I like the problem solving, but gosh, it's good when they just they work quickly, and you're like, okay, now I can just subtly go in and and fix the textures and the areas and then maybe the colours, but it's not, it's just you're working so much quicker than the other ones.
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:37.360
Yeah, it's isn't it interesting how they all are so different?
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:41.360
It's like they do, and they've got their own little personalities about them.
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:53.599
And you know the ones that it you're battling with, and it's like, you know, and you just gotta, you gotta force yourself to turn them against the wall and not freaking touch them for a period of time.
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:56.159
Yeah, that's exactly what you just explained.
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:58.639
Well, yeah, and I don't normally do that, I gotta say.
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:07.599
Like, I I think I was listening to you, I was I put one of your podcasts on yesterday and you were talking to um Tala, Tyla Brookman.
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:08.719
Oh, Talia Brookman.
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:10.000
Yeah, that was a good one.
00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:17.440
And I think you said something along the lines of um you would go in and then the next day you're like, oh God, what am I doing?
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:18.320
Like, where am I going?
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:20.000
Whereas I do the reverse.
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:22.960
I will literally ruin a painting just before bedtime.
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:27.679
And I sometimes paint till two o'clock in the morning, especially if I've got a studio at home, which is great because I've got it here.
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:33.199
I don't, I'm here as soon as I drop the kids off, and you know, I'll be home at like six o'clock.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:37.840
So, but there I will paint from eight till two o'clock in the morning most nights.
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:41.440
And it's that tiredness, it's not working.
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:50.320
And I will literally get, especially if it's a big painting, like a hundred and fifty by 120 or something, I will get a big brush and I will paint a blue, dark blue wash over the whole thing.
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:51.519
I'm like, I've ruined it.
00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:55.679
So when I go in tomorrow, the only thing I can do now is fix it.
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:03.199
That's really interesting because that's the exact way that I attack my my works on paper, and that is the exact thing.
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:08.400
That is the exact release I'm trying to get into my bigger work.
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.440
So see, we were supposed to have this conversation today.
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:20.880
But I also, it's funny though, too, because I'll be just like I will literally go to bed and you know, husband will always say, like, what time is it?
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:21.840
Why didn't you get to bed early?
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:26.079
And I was like, Oh, anyway, but it was all that frustration that pent up stuff that it just wasn't working.
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:27.199
I'll paint the whole thing off.
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:31.119
And then I'll go down in the morning and I'll be like, actually, it's not as bad as I thought.
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:32.559
And there's things that I can work with.
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:40.639
So that's why I like these happy mistakes, is because it they are mistakes and I need to fix them, but they've given me direction.
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:42.400
Yeah, it's really interesting.
00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:47.119
I was actually having a very similar conversation with some of my high school school students.
00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:54.880
So I'm teaching this wonderful group of high school students at my old high school, and they're high potential gifted education students.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:58.800
So they're they're the ones that, you know, have a bit of a knack for art.
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:07.920
And so, um, you know, it's really interesting how our school system, it it what it does is it teaches kids how to tighten up.
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:13.760
It teaches them how to sit in a very specific box and only focus on the end result.
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:17.440
And so I'm coming in and I'm freaking shaking them up.
00:55:17.599 --> 00:55:19.599
I'm getting them to butcher their work.
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:24.639
I'm getting like they like they will cringe when I come and stand behind them.
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.159
Because I'm like, what if you try this?
00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:29.280
Well, no, well, I'm like that when I teach too.
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:32.880
I remove works from people if I see them looking and thinking too hard.
00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:33.599
That's it.
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:35.760
But it's upside down.
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:36.079
Yeah.
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:40.239
And I it's a good thing with art in schools because they need that release.
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:46.000
They don't, it's not another class that need to do sort of, you know, cookie-cutting situation.
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:48.719
It's they need to they need to have a release.
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:52.079
They need that sort of like, oh, well, I can just be me.
00:55:52.480 --> 00:56:00.079
And if this is because art is therapy, and I think it can be frustrating, it can be amazing, but but it is a place of escapism.
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:03.119
And I feel like in schools they need to introduce that a whole lot more.
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:04.719
It's what I've been saying.
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:11.920
I have been, I feel like I am like a broken record speaking to schools about the importance of art as a place of safety.
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:14.719
They're all about well-being and stuff these days.
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:26.639
And it's like all I do is talk about the mental health benefits, and it's so interesting because, like, for example, it it is hard, I will say, I'll be really honest.
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:33.599
It's really hard to get kids engaged in process because they want a quick fix, they want an end result, particularly in nature.
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:34.559
That's human nature.
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:47.679
But where the interesting thing that happens is it's like when I'm when I'm sitting and I'm looking at them and I'm watching how they approach things, I'm not looking for their skill at all.
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:49.679
I'm looking for their unique mark.
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:53.039
And the thing is that they don't know what their unique mark is.
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:54.719
So I'll give you a practical example.
00:56:55.119 --> 00:57:03.440
One student, he, I could just tell, you know, he when I had this conversation with him, he was telling me, he said, I don't really know much about art.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:06.639
Like, I'm not really that interested in that.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:09.599
Like he didn't really know why he was there.
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:13.280
And I said, let's just, let's just set a stopwatch.
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:15.440
And I said, I want you to pull out something that interests you.
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.320
We're just gonna draw, we're gonna put a stopwatch on, we're gonna do 10 minutes.
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.400
I said, I want you to fill this table with drawings, and then we're gonna look at them and we're gonna discuss them.
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:27.280
So he was just moving, and because I put him on the stopwatch, he didn't have time to think, right?
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:31.360
And we looked at this table and he'd drawn all these animals.
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:36.480
And his mark, I kid you not, it was so fluid, it was so quick.
00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:39.440
And I said, This, I said, This is your gift.
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:44.639
I said, This is not about you sitting and thinking about what the perfect animals are.
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.840
I said, This is what we're gonna do for this entire term.
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:51.679
We're gonna focus on quick mark making sketches.
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:59.519
And I just saw, I saw this little thing go off in his head that just went, oh, I'm allowed to have fun.
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.679
I'm allowed to, you know, not take things so seriously.
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:09.119
And it's like I'm constantly saying to kids, start, it's just art.
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:10.400
Have some fun.
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:11.679
It's just pee, cut.
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:16.159
No, but it's yeah, and this is and unfortunately it's not just kids, it's adults too.
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:22.559
So I do a very similar when I do the first, very first exercise when I teach, it's literally just making marks.
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:22.800
Yeah.
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:24.480
Like literally just making marks.
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:26.880
And again, like you said, I can see their personality.
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:32.960
So I can see whether somebody here's because they'll come and they'll tell me, Oh, no, I'm an accountant, I do everything very tight.
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:42.079
And then the next thing you're looking at your page, their page, and they're loosening up and they're drawing from one side of the page to the other rather than doing in tight little boxes, or you know, so I'm just like, no, no, no, no, no.
00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:42.719
It's all in there.
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:53.280
Like you know your your the the way you're making these marks is telling you, you know, what you need, but also it's giving me an idea of your, you know, your personality when it comes to art as well.
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:56.159
And it it is interesting because everything does does come down to a mark.
00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:58.960
It starts with a mark, like that's where it starts.
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:03.280
And I think back in the day, you know, I mean, I'm 50, so it's a bit different.
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:15.360
But I remember, you know, you'd have your mum on the phone, she'd be talking to friends, and then there'd always be like a notepad by the phone, and there'd always be doodles on there, and there'd always be like some sort of patterns or circles or this or that, which we don't do now because everything's that is exactly right.
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:17.519
Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:24.719
It's um yeah, and someone reminded me of that on the weekend, and I was just like, wow, we we always had pens in our hands.
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.079
So we were always making marks and we're doing this, and we don't do that now.
00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:34.400
And you know, people's handwriting was a personality, and you know, even their signatures told you a lot about them, you know.
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:38.880
So yeah, it is interesting that these kids they don't have that.
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:40.480
They don't do that, you know.
00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:41.920
Yeah, they're writing.
00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:50.639
Yeah, they're writing, and they've got to get the it's all got to be legible, but when it comes to using that tool to show expression, it's not really happening as much.
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:52.480
And I think this is the thing.
00:59:52.639 --> 01:00:03.760
I think um one of the things we have to remind ourselves is that, you know, sometimes it's not about you d it doesn't have to be a tedious process.
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:18.480
I think sometimes we we get ourselves in a state where we do start um tightening up and taking things too seriously, or you know, and it's like art is not a serious pursuit, you know, it is fun at the end of the day.
01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:22.719
This is how we were born into this world as creative beings.
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:28.960
And it's like the the more that we can keep keep that part very loose.
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:35.599
I agree, I agree, and I think also there's so many people that get, you know, it can be intimidating walking into galleries.
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:47.840
And that's one thing I do like about Brenda is that she's she's just she's one of these angelic humans, she's just lovely, she's just lovely, and I think that's why I was like, yeah, okay, I want to show here, and also because of the person she is.
01:00:48.079 --> 01:00:54.880
Um, but you go into galleries and you can feel like, oh, am I what am I meant to know before I walk into this space?
01:00:55.199 --> 01:01:05.519
And for me personally, um I don't I'm recreating landscapes, so there's no place that you need to know about.
01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:18.320
You just go in there, and if it can remind you of something or it can trigger a childhood memory or this and that, but it really is just a emotional reaction, uh, whether you like it or you don't like it, whatever it is.
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:20.960
But it's yeah, again, it's not that serious.
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:22.800
It's it really isn't.
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:26.159
It's not this sort of you don't I don't need to write a thesis on my artwork.
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:32.960
It's it's my interpretation and me hoping hope um hopefully taking the viewer onto a bit of a journey.
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:37.599
And that's it's not as complicated as I think it you know people think it is.
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:38.000
Yeah.
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:42.400
So I think it's important that people just, you know, enjoy it for a enjoy it because you like the colour.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:48.079
Or don't enjoy it because it's it doesn't it, yeah, you don't need to know about it.
01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:59.280
It's just I I saw somewhere, which no one does, I saw somewhere that you should really give artwork at least 15 minutes, which is a really long time.
01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:06.159
But I do find that the more I keep looking at my same work, I find new things in it and I find a new story in it.
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:10.800
So I think we're so used to those quick reactions and we get need to get the knowledge out of it quickly.
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:13.440
And I'm just not sure if that's serving us all too well.
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:24.559
Yeah, well, this is and I mean, this is exactly why I make the kind of works that I make, because I never, ever, ever want to make a work that someone can digest in one go.
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:29.920
I want to make work that forces people to come back and come back and come back and come back.
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:31.280
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:31.519 --> 01:02:41.760
Well, also because even with you, with the people we fascinated with the technique that you do, and then there are people that will remind them of gemstones that they might have had as a child that they were holding on.
01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:48.320
Or there's so many different things that it can access, you know, the thought and and the meaning behind it for them.
01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:57.599
So um I think art is a great thing to it's it's a it's a gr great way that we all need to sort of just enjoy it so much more.
01:02:58.000 --> 01:02:59.360
Yeah, absolutely.
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:06.239
And on that note, I want to ask you one final question because I'm really mindful of your time.
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:16.559
And the question I wanted to ask is what is the one non-negotiable on your practice that keeps everything on track?
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:25.440
Uh I would say that I don't go too many days without doing art.
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:25.840
Yeah.
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:33.679
So yeah, so and I think it's it's obvious when my mood starts changing quite significantly, I think.
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:41.440
Um and look, I think I get I get if there's two days that I haven't painted, I'm pretty itchy.
01:03:41.679 --> 01:03:44.719
So yeah, so that's the non-negotiable.
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:45.760
It's just like, no, no, no, no.
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:57.440
If I'm if I'm doing this and and I'm doing it and my mood is changing, then my happiness, then my presence in my family, you know, in the family home or with other people, or how I interact.
01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:59.760
Like if I'm not filling my cup up, and this is my cup.
01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:06.559
So, you know, some people might go to the gym, some people might you know go and get their hair done, some people might read a book, but this is my thing.
01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:18.000
And um that quiet time and that time I can I can be an introvert and just connect with my paintings means that I'm a better person on the outside of that.
01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:20.960
That's essentially absolutely, absolutely.
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:23.760
I think we are very, very similar in that way.
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:35.760
I took my first full weekend out of the studio and two days, I realized that's the first time in over, well and truly over 12 months that I've taken two days off in a row.
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:41.920
And and it was like I got in here today and oh man, was I ready to pick up a paintbrush.
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:44.960
How good is I know, how good is it though we've got that?
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:56.320
Like we've got something that we're so driven to, you know, get a paintbrush or for you to get onto the tools or whatever it is, that it's like, no, that's our happy place, and we've found it.
01:04:56.480 --> 01:05:24.400
Because people I feel sad for you know that people haven't found that place, and then once they do, and that's one thing that I love about teaching is that there are a lot of women who either they've been art teachers or they've you know had all the different types of jobs, but this has been something that they've always been interested in, and now they are some of them are retired, they have got more space, and they don't want to stop doing, and they're going straight back into it because they realize how nourishing it is for them.
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:24.880
Yeah.
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:26.639
So we get to do it every day.
01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:28.159
Like we're winning at life.
01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:29.599
What a gift.
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:30.639
What a gift.
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:31.760
I know, it's good.
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:35.280
And on that note, I just wanted to thank you so much for your time.
01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:36.800
I cannot wait for your show.
01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:42.159
We'll put all of the the links in the show notes and um definitely send me.
01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:43.679
Oh, you gotta send me a nice headshot.
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:44.880
That's the one thing I forgot to ask for.
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:45.760
Okay, we'll do.
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:49.119
Um I'll do like a nice intro and all of that for you.
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:58.480
But let me know any key things you want me to put in the show notes, and we will tag all of those people in the post and all of that sort of stuff.
01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:02.480
But this was a Such a good, well-rounded conversation.
01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:04.559
I just enjoy listening back to this.
01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:05.280
It was.
01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:06.400
It was thank you.
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:07.599
Well, thank you for asking me.
01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:08.880
It was it's really nice.
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:14.239
I'm actually um talking this Sunday at um SH Urban Gallery in it.
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:16.880
So this is a really nice way to shake off a few nerves.
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:18.800
Yeah.
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:20.320
Yeah, okay.
01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:21.119
You need to.
01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:21.840
I'm so sorry.
01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:22.320
I forgot.
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:23.440
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:28.400
It's just really, I just wanted to say thank you because you've you know, you've probably you know not shaking out all the nerves.
01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:29.199
Yeah, you are.
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:29.920
It's good.
01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:30.880
That's okay.
01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:36.960
I just hope that they've got a really, really, really talkative person like me that just rolls the conversation.
01:06:37.280 --> 01:06:38.559
I know you're very good at it.
01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:39.360
You should, yeah.
01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:44.239
I mean, uh unfortunately you've got to paint, but if you did this full time, you'd make you know, it'd be a great career.
01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:46.880
Oh gosh, I love having these conversations.
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:48.880
No, I just love making new friends.
01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:57.760
Like, I think that's the thing that I get out of like, you know, going to all the shows and just keeping the communication open with um like-minded people.
01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:00.880
And I think at the end of the day, this is what this podcast is all about.
01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:06.480
It's just, you know, the most authentic version of the creative life.
01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:26.719
And oh, and I think also the fact that you're promoting so much positivity, but also a sense of community is really lovely because you know, that's one thing I did like about when Instagram came about, is that there's some artists that you've never met, but you're like you've got a bit of a dialogue going on and you're patting each other on the back, and it's just like, yeah, okay, we need that on the days where we're feeling a bit lonely.
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:27.599
So thank you.
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:36.480
And I would love to think that, you know, like I do often think, like, I do have very strong values that I live my life by.
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:45.519
And you know, if that's one of the things that I want people to feel is that, you know, kindness is a really big value of mine.
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:55.199
And I do genuinely love celebrating other people, and I just think that the more that we can do that and support each other, the further ahead we can all get.
01:07:55.280 --> 01:08:01.199
And I just think that there's no point um putting various artists up on pedestals.
01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:03.280
I just don't think that there's it's necessary.
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:08.559
I think at the end of the day, none of us have a clue what we're freaking doing.
01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:11.039
We're all figuring it out.
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:23.359
And we're all doing very different things from each other, so it's just really it's really lovely to go, oh okay, you know, uh and you've said that you know, with the tender side side of things, I don't I feel like I'm new to that game.
01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:27.760
So everyone's got some information to share, and we're all making such different art from each other.
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:31.199
So we might as well find friends in this crazy world.
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:33.439
Absolutely, 100%.
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:36.640
So you have a good day of painting.
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:42.239
I'm gonna I'm gonna go and now I'm feeling super motivated to just detect this panel to big ones.
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:43.359
Well, can you do me a favor?
01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:44.960
Can you film the start of these?
01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:46.560
Yep, I will so we can all see it?
01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:46.880
Great.
01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:47.680
Okay, I will.
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:50.079
I'll film it, I'll put it up as a reel.
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:50.720
Good.
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:53.520
Please do, please do, because I do like watching your rules.
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:56.000
Accountability, accountability.
01:08:56.079 --> 01:08:59.920
You'll know which one it is because it's starting very different to usual.
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:01.279
Good, no good.
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:06.239
No, but it's nice also for everyone to see that that you know you're trying something new.
01:09:06.640 --> 01:09:07.520
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:07.680 --> 01:09:10.479
And if you're one of my galleries out there, don't panic.
01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:11.439
It's okay.
01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:13.359
No, they're gonna be excited.
01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:15.920
No, they're gonna be excited to see what happens.
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:18.159
No, but it's just a starting point.
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:19.119
Like, this is the thing.
01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:20.880
I just wanted to start it differently.
01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:22.720
I'm still gonna excavate and stuff.
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:28.880
I can still see what I want to do, but yeah, I just needed that freedom to start differently.
01:09:29.039 --> 01:09:29.439
Anyway.
01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:30.159
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:32.239
You have a happy painting day.
01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:33.840
I can't wait to see your show.
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:36.560
It's already in the diary, so I will be there.
01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:37.119
Oh, okay.
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:39.680
And um, yeah, we'll we'll chat soon.
01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:40.319
Have a good one.
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:41.119
Amazing.
01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:42.079
Thank you for having me.
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:43.039
No worries.
01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:44.000
My pleasure.
01:09:44.720 --> 01:09:45.199
See you back.
01:09:46.079 --> 01:09:46.720
Bye.