WEBVTT
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I thought I would play a movement or just the opening of a movement that's really special to me.
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Um and it's special because of one chord.
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I just like I think I might have learned about this in music theory somewhere, you know, but I never really got it until I was an adult just reading through this piece and just just feeling it out for myself.
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That can be so important to like recontextualize the music after you've escaped your training, you know.
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So this is the opening of the second movement of Beethoven's Apassionata Sonata.
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It's a theme in variations.
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I'm just gonna play the theme.
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And whenever Beethoven writes in a kind of chorale setting, I feel like it's entering a more spiritual place.
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It's kind of like a hearkening back to Bach chorals, to the Baroque era or beyond that to Renaissance.
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And there's some there's just something sacred about that just contextually and also I don't know, in your body, just feeling a four-voiced corral is automatically satisfying.
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What is that?
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It's like a reminder, like, oh yeah, there might be something bigger than us, you know.
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Yes, yeah.
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And and when we come together and we unify in our voices is when we're strongest.
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You know, like when we have a beautiful melody on top with accompaniment, that's one thing that's expressing the soul, the individual, um, the personal.
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But when the voices come together, moving all together at the same time.
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It's like this, you know, phalanx.
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That's why choirs are always like used to add emotion.
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Um anytime there's a pop singer doing a big show, and then they bring in a choir to sort of sing like a they sing the chorus one time around as a choir.
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Yeah.
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And you're just like, oh, like it's so cheesy, but it just always pulls at you.
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Yeah, but Beethoven, his chorale use is always very spiritual, like the I'm thinking of the Heiliger Donkazong movement of Opus 132 string quartet, which is a super slowed down chorale.
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Like it's it's almost imperceivable that it's a chorale because it's so slow.
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But if you play it sped up, you realize it is just these this beautiful chorale going through, and he also has the intense voice uh spacing like he does in this movement.
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I was thinking also the slow, I mean, I love the slow movement of the Emperor concerto, which the piano doesn't have this, but the orchestra has it right away.
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Where all the voices are moving together in a kind of hymn, you know.
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For the piano to finally enter.
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Etcetera, but that is just yeah, he sets up the movement with a chorale or with a with a hymn, with something that is um making everything stand still for the piano.
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You know, and it's like setting up the tone uh before the piano gets to sing in a very spiritual and personal way.
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Yeah, I'm just always well not always, but often so much more moved by that opening section you played rather than the one voice coming in and oh oh what's this character like the singular character struggle is just a lot less emotional for me than this sort of recognition of just like we are all like connected.
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That's what moves me m most now.
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I think that's why I love uh not to I'm immediately getting off of Beethoven here, but Schubert.
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Uh the Schubert uh so much of Schubert's music is this kind of texture when he goes to those intimate places.
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It's not I mean he has unbelievable songs.
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That's the irony of it.
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He is the leader master.
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You know, he created meaning of leader.
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Leader is uh song.
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LEED is the German word for song.
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L-I-E-D, right?
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L-I-E-D, leiter.
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Leiter Leder.
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And um So he has a lot of these song cycles that are for like tenor and piano.
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The idea that I mean I guess Beethoven had one or two technically that people don't do too much.
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But um how how bad does it feel if someone refers to you having a certain work of art technically?
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Ouch.
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Well, Beethoven's got a lot of good.
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That's how I would describe it.
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We technically have a podcast.
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Um if you'd like to check it out.
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Hey, I do these videos.
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You know, Isabel's got stand-up and we technically we have a podcast.
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We don't really we're not really talking about it very much yet.
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Uh we'll see what happens, we'll see what whether we have chemistry and whether that chemistry leads into something organically uh fulfilling for people.
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But right now we're in the technically stage of the podcast.
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Um but anyway, Schubert Schubert can do that beautiful song stuff, like vinterize.
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I mean, you know, all the beautiful song cycles he has where there's a narrative from beginning to end, and all these songs are connected in some way by a story, but then he can also go into this realm, which is also a song, but because of the unified voices and harmonic rhythm, it also feels like a chorale, doesn't it?
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It has a melody, but right here.
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So tender and so um I mean it's not so sacred, right?
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Because he he I think the personality of that voice on top makes it a little more human.
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A little more tender, a little less sacred.
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Yeah, a little less sacred.
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But when it comes back around, much like in the appassionata, you said there's one chord you love.
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Isn't there another another chord we have to get to in this?
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Well, I mean, for one thing, the chord we did get to toward the end of the phrase I find really beautiful.
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And a lot of this, I'll connect it back to the appassionata right now in a way because I think the really deep stuff, the stuff where you're like, oh my heart is breaking there in that moment.
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I think that occurs when form and harmony meet each other in a really expressive and beautiful way.
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You cannot not think about the form and structure of what you're doing in music, partly because it's it's a temporal art, it's just always going.
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So um a part of it's kind of like for a painting, you're thinking about all this geometry of how things are in space and time, right?
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Not so much time.
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For music, time is pulling is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there.
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It's like what happened before and how it relates to what's happening in the future sets up a feeling.
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And composers are super aware of that, and that is what form and structure are in music.
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So here, there's not much going on.
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It's very beautiful, it's pianissimo, but harmonically, nothing interesting is really happening.
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We're in A flat, we're just doing normal A flat stuff.
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We're setting up this emphasis on B2, which is nice, has a lilt.
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There we have a little emphasis on B3.
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Now we just do the same thing in octave higher.
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Nothing that special.
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But we've been waiting for this.
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This chord here.
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And then we'll cadence.
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But that chord is a move outside the key that we haven't gotten this whole time.
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We've gone through one, two, three, four, I don't know, like 12 measures or something.
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And is that the chord I was referring to, or am I imagining another?
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Oh, there's more.
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There's more later, but we don't have to fully analyze this one.
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I mean, that to me is a very special chord.
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Um, where that's very Schubert, that's very like bittersweet remembering of something.
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Um and then letting go.
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Where it's it's only momentary.
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I'm not gonna get stuck in that like Wagner.
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I'm just gonna like, huh.
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Isn't that isn't that beautiful, that pain?
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Isn't that part of what it means to be human, to feel a little nostalgia and bitterness or bittersweetness?
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And then we have to keep going.
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It's a chromatic motion in there, right?
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Like is that what the chromaticism is in the um inner voices.
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Yeah.
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So without that inner voice, it's actually totally normal it works.
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But it's that note, that E flat that's crawling up to an E natural.
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Yeah, like you said, the chromatic note.
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And Schuber loves these chromatic changes that are very subtle but open up a whole new emotional realm.
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I mean, he does this like all the time in his music.
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This is in the key of A flat minor, but when it comes back later, it comes back in the parallel key of A flat major, and all he needed to change there was that the third was raised by a half step.
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So he has a real subtle, sophisticated notion of how to make you how to make you feel something internally rather than try to pull you into the emotion like in a blunt way.
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Well, he's literally having the stuff happen internally in the chord.
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Inside, in the inner voices.
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It's usually the harmony in the inner voices that are leading the leading the way.
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Let's get back to the um Apassionata.
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I think I can guess what your favorite chord is.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah.
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Okay, well, let me play it one more time, at least the first eight bars, and see if our listeners can guess.
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Should I be like a face?
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No.
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All right, one sec.
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Again, it's that chroma there's a chromatic pa is it a chromatic passing tone?
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Is that what it is?
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So what it is, is this is toward the end of the phrase where he moves down to this augmented six chord, but it's how it resolves that is so beautiful.
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Yeah.
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Because normally you might go to this or something.
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Um you might do that, but this G goes down to the side.
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That so it retroactively makes the previous note a chromatic passing tone.
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No?
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I'm I don't know why I'm stuck on this.
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Are you trying to cry?
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I'm trying not to cry because it's this is what happens to every single time when I'm like, is it a passing tone?
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It's about I don't give a shit if it's a passing tone or not.
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Um I mean it's nice to explain this stuff, and it's nice to try to put your head around it conceptually so that you can explain what's so meaningful and beautiful about it.
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And also sometimes it's nice to just let it hit you.
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But I for me why it's so beautiful is I like I guess I like to imagine that that choice to resolve it in that unusual way is a choice.
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He could have done this, he could have done this like, you know, or he could have done, I don't know, any you know, I don't know, he could have done any number of different predominant chords to get there, but instead he chooses this one that's like a stab to the heart, and then like I feel that as such deep acceptance.
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I think it's because it's lowering that it's like, no, we're not gonna go there, you know.
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Like we're not gonna, I'm not gonna give you what you think you want.
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I'm gonna pull you a little deeper into a a more raw and real place.
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That is like when we go to that place, we let go of concept, we let go of trying to understand, and it's just a release and I don't know, an acceptance of the reality of things when we have the right perspective.
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It's so hard to put that into words, um, but that chord just really, really moves me.
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And then almost like the Schubert, it's like, okay, well, we gotta move on.
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Like, and life goes on.
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Yeah, and so here's the second part of the theme.
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We gotta keep going.
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And it's a little more hopeful, maybe.
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There's a little more motion in this, you know, more individualism here.
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He's reaching higher, a crescendo.
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Talk about, you know, Emperor Concerto, nobility.
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There's something noble in that, and then.
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And this is actually a set of variations.
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So we have that first theme, and the variations unfold very organically, very gently.
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It's like he starts off.
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I can't play this whole thing, but it's almost like he's immediately dissecting or like picking apart the very simple harmony in a in a very natural way.
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He's letting it unfold.
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I think that's he has a lot of patience, uh ironically.
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But we think of Beethoven as impetuous, but with the with movements like these, he has had incredible patience.
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Um, it reminds me of the third movement of Opus 109, the famous late piano sonata and E major, which the third movement also is a theme in variations that has this really beautiful, profound kind of chorale.
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But it's really kind of like more like a little folk song that's accompanied by this harmony, very intimate.
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Beethoven totally overdoes the markings here.
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He says you gotta play this as expressively as possible and beautifully as possible with all this singing.
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It can really tie people up in knots.
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Because you're trying to capture this sacred quality of this really simple theme, and then he's not in a hurry when he starts the variations.
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It's like a little aria.
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And then just like the Apassionata, he kind of breaks it down a little.
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It's really modern.
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It's very modern.
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It's because almost like Vabern.
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Yeah.
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Maybe it's the way I'm playing it too, but it feels like Beethoven had a lot more textural exploration in his music than a lot of his contemporaries.
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Like he I'm not saying his music w necessarily was like, oh, it's uh really just experimental, but but there are elements of it that are like quirky, even just the spacing in his voicing, and then something like that.
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And you do just wonder how much of it was was because of his hearing loss too.
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Yeah.
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And him just almost having less of a limitation or just searching for things that he could still sort of feel the resonance of.
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You know?
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Like texture plays more of a role in his mind, maybe in part because he's searching for different timbers in a way that someone who could clearly hear doesn't have the need or urge to do.
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Um that that would make sense to me.
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I mean, especially like if you're if you're playing these low registers and it's like vibrating in a certain way.
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Maybe that's what partly drove him to write in those dark registers.
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Could be.
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And he was just exploring and exploring as an innovator, as a revolutionary, he was constantly trying to push the instrument to its limits and see what what music he could squeeze out of different.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Um put he did not care whether it was hard.
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Let's just say that.
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He didn't care whether you had to be flying around the piano going to this range and that range, uh reading all these ledger lines like Beethoven and I think that's a good idea.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.680
You say he doesn't care be just because clearly he kept doing that?
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Is that what I just he just from everything I just have read about him and stuff, it's it's that he he put the music first before the human being who's trying to play the music.
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Whereas some other composers uh will especially from his day or before, would tailor the music a little bit, adjust the music because, well, hey Beethoven, this isn't in my range to sing or you know, um I don't know, this is just I don't have time to practice this.
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Can you make an easy piece for me?
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.039
He wasn't interested in composing for you, for the convenience of you.
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He's just interested in uh expressing whatever's in him.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.079
You know, and and you could kind of c care less if you're able to play it.
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.559
Okay, well I'll find someone else who can, or I'll play it myself.
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:23.920
Um I wanted to also bring up the opening of the first movement of the appassionata because unlike the second movement, which is so serene, it's such a break, the first movement is full of anxiety, and it's that classic Beethoven that we uh come to know throughout his heroic period.
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I mean this is Opus 57.
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What's the heroic period?
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Is that an actual period?
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:29.119
I didn't say heroic period.
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I usually I usually think of uh I usually think of the middle period uh as a period.
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Why did I say heroic?
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Maybe I think of the heroic symphony.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.200
Does that mean heroic heroica?
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:39.839
Yeah.
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:40.319
Okay.
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I mean it's like a an expression of heroicism.
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Okay.
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But um I think.
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But he uh yawn.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:52.480
Yeah, yeah, thanks, Isabel.
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.519
Um ask a question and they get bored by the answer.
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:56.799
That's a good way to interview.
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Um what inspires you?
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Oh, he gets contagious.
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:19.759
So but in this middle period, anyway, where I do think of him as um in his peace his pieces tend to start in this like anxious uh state of turbulence and then end with a heroic triumph.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.759
Maybe that's why I say heroic period.
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But the appassionata starts this way.
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Oh, I'm starting in the wrong range.
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I'm giving Beethoven I'm I'm I did Beethoven a favor.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:30.480
Yeah.
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.720
My right hand started at octave lower.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.440
But this is way more powerful because the space between the voices.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.000
This is something like Shastakovich.
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Oh, because it's two octaves between them, right?
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:42.640
Okay.
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:43.359
I mean, I don't know.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:44.640
It is like Shastakovich.
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Shastakovich will be like, he'll have a melody like you know, he'll everything in unison and the higher register, you know.
00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:00.319
You know, uh, but an octave apart, or two octaves apart to give that whoa, it's like somehow more intense.
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:01.839
It's not as unified.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:06.319
It's clearly two individual voices just struggling to do the same thing.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:20.640
And here he's a master of using those rests, right?
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:21.920
Those dramatic rests.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.440
And then he's like, you know what?
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.799
Let's start the piece over, but uh half a step higher.
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:38.799
Just another question.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.960
There's a little hint of Beethoven's fifth.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:53.839
Whoops, sorry, let me try.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.839
So so much expectation and intensity.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.119
This is such a way to start a sonata, you know?
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:12.559
And then I I can't even play this part, I haven't practiced it, but it explodes.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.200
Just gonna generically play a C7.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.880
And then it's kind of like the piece truly begins.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:45.119
So there's drama right away in this F minor work by Beethoven.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.960
I want to say one other thing about this this unison thing.
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.000
Is a thing.
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:51.200
Like composers do that.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:57.839
I was gonna ask, is that very radical in terms of the times using employing unison like that?
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.039
I don't think it's very I don't think it's very radical.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:12.400
I think it's usually it's a symbol of like an orchestral kind of feeling when when composers um I'm trying to think.
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.119
Even very early, Opus 1 number three, his his piano trio in C minor.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.079
Oh yeah, right.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:27.680
I mean all of that is violin, cello, and piano playing in unison.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:36.640
And I think what it does really well is it leaves you wondering, first of all, what harmony are we in?
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:46.720
I mean, it's already it is implying with this is implying C minor, but it's not like going.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:49.519
Right.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:54.000
Even Mozart in a dun dun dun dun dun dun.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:54.960
Oh yeah.
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:58.079
The piano quartet.
00:27:58.319 --> 00:27:59.599
Oh shoot, let me pull it up really much.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:08.640
Yeah, I played it a long time ago, but but all the instruments are playing in unison for that opening.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:09.599
Oh, that's right.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:10.400
Oh, that's right.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:11.839
Yeah, violin, viola, chello.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:15.279
The piano quartet.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:16.240
Yeah, good call.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:17.119
Mozart.
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.279
And then there's this like little interruption.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.079
And then they come back together.
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.160
So maybe it's a kind of symbol of drama, you know, traditionally.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.000
But composers throughout time will use this.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.759
I mean Ooh, I just thought of another one.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.400
Beethoven opus 95 string quartet.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.720
But Beethoven does it kind of a lot.
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:43.519
He does it a lot.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:45.839
Because he just wants to grab your attention right away.
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.279
Yeah, party trick.
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:52.079
This is sleazy like Beethoven will use this one simple trick.
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:53.839
Composers hate him.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.519
Um starting in unison, gets him every time.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:01.839
But Brahms will take this and run with it, and that's why you have your viola, right?
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.319
Oh, yeah, we can but the unison part's not the viola.
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:06.000
No, no, no, I just thought of that.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:12.720
But the the fact we were we were thinking that, okay, F minor appassionata, Beethoven.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:17.039
What other works are in F minor that have that similar character?
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:25.119
And especially by someone like Brahms, who revered Beethoven, um, and then immediately, I mean, you're a violist, so you know this piece really well.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.119
You mentioned the F minor viola sonata.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.039
Well it's a clarinet sonata originally.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:29.519
Right.
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.880
And then violists arguably, I think it's I thought he arranged it also for viola.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:38.559
Everyone is I yes, Brahms allegedly arranged.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.000
I heard someone told me that, like, actually he didn't, but that might be wrong.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:47.279
But the common knowledge is that Brahms did the viola arrangements as well, but it was originally written for a clarinetist.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.359
It was definitely originally written for clarinet.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:55.200
Yeah, but a viola and a clarinet share uh voice, so viola can play clarinet music pretty easily.
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:56.079
A lot of the time.
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:58.319
Yeah, they they share, they share the same register.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.480
Yeah, that's what I mean by vo register, yeah.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.039
Yeah, they're both alto instruments, I guess.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:14.000
Yes, but the fun thing about the Brahms connection and the appassionata is one, it starts in unison, and then when the viola comes in, the first three notes are the same three notes as the beginning of the appassionata.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.279
Yeah, you want to play some of it?
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:24.880
Let's do it, but I also just before we leave the unison thing, I want to mention like this is not like just a classical thing.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:31.359
I mean, yeah, like Brahms, you know, we'll we'll start pieces just as you'll hear in in unisons.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:37.599
But I've whenever I think of unison, I think of Messien, uh Olivier Messienne's quartet for the end of time.
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.039
Oh, the entire unison movement.
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.279
The sixth movement is entirely in unison.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:46.079
That's for a totally different purpose and effect, but every instrument is playing.
00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:51.519
How many instruments?
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:52.079
Four.
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:52.880
Four.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.279
Clarinet, violin, cello, piano.
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.400
So I mean, if you want to if you want to really go wild.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.319
That's like how long of a movement is that?
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.799
Um it's a significant, maybe like seven minutes or something.
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:16.400
Right, it's not just an opening, it's like a whole movement in unison.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:23.839
And the w the reason he uses that technique is because this is like a fanfare of Trump, it's signaling the end of the apocalypse.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:30.000
So it's like the intensity of unison's squeezed to its maximum potential.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.839
And like, hey, maybe it all starts with Beethoven or Mozart.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:46.160
But this concept is kind of it's fascinating when you see these uh concepts that seem just fundamental to music that are then discovered and rediscovered and used by other composers for different reasons.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:51.039
Um it makes you feel like things are kind of connected, even if they're not obviously connected.
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:51.440
Right.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.279
I mean, you know, anyway.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:55.599
Should we give them a little taste of the Brahms?
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.880
Yeah, I feel stupid about the clarinet viola arrangements thing.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:08.480
But I I swear I because everyone says Brahms did these arrangements to make them for viola.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.119
No, that's what I heard doing then I had one masterclass, can't even remember who.
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.759
This guy was like, No, there's like a letter from Brahms saying, like, I hate these arrangements.
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:19.119
Oh, yes, the famous letter.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.400
Yeah, it's always a letter.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:21.440
Anyway, I don't know.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.799
If you're a historian, you can look it up, you can comment.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.640
The secret letter.
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:29.440
All right.
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:30.319
Exciting.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.079
Isabel's got her viola on her.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:32.960
Let's play some brand.
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:33.920
Incredibly.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:34.720
No, I don't know.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.319
And then we'll talk about the connections between the apposhanata sonata.
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:40.079
Apasshanata sonata.
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:43.920
And this Brahms F minor sonata.
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:45.359
All right, let's do it.
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.799
Beginning with Unison's.
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:50.079
I mean Violet's will do like crazy fingerings to avoid the string crossings, but I just I can't.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:50.559
Really?
00:33:50.960 --> 00:34:06.880
Like instead of but I just think it's so goofy, and I'd rather I like the anytime I can be in sorry, anytime I can be in like first or third position, I just also think it sounds better.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:08.960
It's not just that it's kind of easier, but Yeah.
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:10.400
Well go ahead.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.639
I mean you can do it, but on a clarinet there's no string crossing, so it makes sense that this was originally written for a clarinet.
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:29.519
Well, but and there's there's what you miss in the clarinet, though, is the effort between notes.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.599
Well, that a lot of times I hear a clarinet play this piece and it's just like it's easier.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.119
Yeah, like you're pushing buttons a little bit.
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:38.719
Yeah, like you're playing the recorder.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:39.440
Totally.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:41.119
Um, but yeah.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:46.559
Um and I do like it when clarinetists add even a little vibrato to this kind of stuff.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:48.159
Because I mean, I know it's whatever.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.360
It's so funny that clarinet is one instrument where if you add vibrato, everyone's like, okay, Benny Goodman.
00:34:53.679 --> 00:35:04.239
Yeah, yeah, that's that's true, but like it needs or it it I think it can withstand, this music can withstand the kind of vibrato that you're putting on the viola.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:11.599
I mean, like what you get to do with a viola that they can't do as well, maybe, or naturally, is vibrate.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:18.320
You know, you've studied your whole life on how to vibrate um tastefully, and that leads to a more singing quality.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:33.199
The the clarinet is naturally like a lyrical instrument, just because it's a wind instrument and the the tone and stuff and how one note leads into the other in a really legato, beautiful way, but you get to sing with with your finger more.
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.719
You get that that tactile expression that they don't have.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:40.079
Right.
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.800
So connections between the two pieces.
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:51.119
One we just noticed in the score is the tempo marking is allegro appassionado, probably just a coincidence.
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:52.719
Yeah, never know with Brahms.
00:35:53.039 --> 00:36:07.920
Brahms has these um expressive tempo markings sometimes, you know, um, where it's not just allegro, you know, but it's allegro amabile or something, or allegro appassionado.
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.239
Monotropo, monotropo, but not too much.
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:10.960
Not too much.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.039
Does he ever just mark things allegro?
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:14.480
Yeah, I think he I think he does.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:19.119
I can't think of the top of my head, but especially early on, I think Allegro Conbrio was like, you know.
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:20.400
That's not just Allegro.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.639
I guess that is, but Beethoven wrote that.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:22.960
Oh.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.880
I guess he plays around with the expression of tempo markings a little bit more than the average person.
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.760
And I mean, it doesn't feel Allegro.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:46.960
Maybe I'm not playing it fast enough, but I think because he's not starting right away with eighth notes or with uh sixteenth notes or with fast moving notes, there is a little bit of reservation at the opening.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:58.960
Not to mention the uh temp the dynamic marking is poco forte, a little forte, or like somewhat forte, like don't be too forte.
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.800
So let's not get too strong too soon.
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:06.320
Whoops.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:13.199
Oh god.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:16.000
Which I get.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:38:10.880
Uh I got the so brom's by the way, to just like as soon as he gives you this big he gives you this big you know, this like big explosion of the dominant, like, okay, we're gonna now we're really getting somewhere.
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:17.199
And then it's just like never mind, never mind.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:28.159
It's kind of like it kind of fades into this like like uncertainty that is so so prevalent in his heart a lot of the time, at least based on his music.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:48.800
He often ends pieces, like the fourth movement is like quite unsatisfying a lot of the time, where it's like this meandering movement of uh like the last movement of the of the C minor piano quartet, which is one of his most epic and dramatic pieces, but it ends with it ends with this movement that's kind of like searching and trying to find itself.
00:38:49.039 --> 00:39:01.039
It's like, dude, give us like a satisfying conclusion, and so he kind of fades away here, and then he's like, Oh yeah, this is supposed to be Allegro Apassionado.
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.079
So it's like it's like finally we get these.
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:25.519
I messed up the Also, we should note that you're playing off music and I'm playing from memory, which feels like a flawed way to do this because you're consulting all of the markings and like because I have the notes memorized, I don't have the markings like you don't have the markings memorized.
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:27.119
No.
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.880
Well, but so but you've played this piece, I assume.
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:31.360
Yeah.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:31.760
Yeah.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.400
So yeah, I don't memorize anything anymore, dude.
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:40.800
It's just it's just Well, when I perform this in recital with a pianist, I play off the music as well.
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:44.559
Because the sonata to me is a a real chamber piece.
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.039
So we should be on even playing field.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:50.320
And generally when you're playing chamber music, everyone's reading off of the music.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:40:06.239
But if I'm playing like a concerto but with piano accompaniment, I might play the concerto from memory because it's a little bit the solo instrument of the concerto is at a uh on a higher level musically than the orchestra part, or you know what I mean?
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.880
Yeah, it's intentionally given a real spotlight.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:09.280
Yeah.
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:22.320
Whereas a duo, yeah, I've played I've played plenty of times with people who are super memorized and super in their own part um and don't have maybe the curiosity of like, hey, what's going on there?
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:32.079
Or oh, I can see what you have in your part there, let me try to match you, or maybe this is dialogue between the two of us, and instead they're like, it's obvious they just want me to lay down the part.
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:36.880
And um and those chamber experiences are just not as interesting to me at all.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:44.800
Because I'm not interested in delivering a perfect performance of a piece um with other people.
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:48.880
I'm interested in the conversation that arises in the process.
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:51.519
Like, hey, let's figure this out, let's figure that out.
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.280
Why do you feel that way?
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:59.840
And then the result of that dialogue is the the best expression possible.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:05.360
Not you come in with your idea, I'll come in with my idea, let's try to um perfect it somehow.
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.719
Well, I I this is why I really hate rehearsing in general.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.719
I mean, as it when we didn't rehearse this.
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:11.440
We didn't.
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.400
But obviously, when you're a child or when you're learning, you need to rehearse.
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:38.719
But with two people who come in prepared with their own parts and they have the music in front of them, sure you want to play through it a few times, get settled in, but the rehearsal where you're like, hey, what do you I feel like there I'm not feeling your uh like I I don't and to me it's if you're not feeling it, it's because one of you just isn't doing your job and talking about it isn't gonna fix much.
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:39.760
Like it might.
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:44.719
But you sh to me, it should be able to be an in-the-moment dialogue.
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:52.320
You can practice having the dialogue a couple times, but if it's not already there, if you're not already able to listen and react in real time.
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.199
Yeah.
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:58.400
I take like if I'm working with someone, I'm taking you at face value with the way you're playing.
00:41:58.559 --> 00:41:58.719
Yeah.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:10.800
So in other words, like okay, you you uh you know, let's say you started off, let's say at a different tempo than me or something, then I'm gonna go with that.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.199
I'm gonna be like, oh, she knows what she wants because I'm gonna assume that I'm gonna have trust.
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:16.559
You know what you want.
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:18.960
Now let me meet you there.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:20.079
You're trying to tell me something.
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.239
You're trying to say, hey, I don't like your tempo, I like this tempo.
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:23.840
And I was like, let's try that.
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:27.360
And you have that whole back and forth just by listening.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:27.840
Yeah.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:37.920
So like and let's say I'm trying to say to you, okay, yeah, that's a good tempo, but like, can we try this other tempo maybe?
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:43.360
I can also suggest that by playing a little bit faster and trusting you're listening to me too.
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:50.559
You're listening to me kind of poke you and say, Isabel, I dig your tempo, but can we do it a little bit faster or something like that?
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:51.039
Yeah.
00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:01.679
And then if you don't get that memo and we're kind of off from each other, and then we stop, and it's like it's just not right.
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:03.519
Then it's like, well, let's talk about it.
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:09.679
That means like the listening wasn't happening closely enough, and now words are required, which happens, dude.
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:18.159
It happens, it's not like I'll never say anything, but you find yourself in rehearsals with those people who are constantly stopping and constantly asking.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:33.920
And it those are always the ones who are like, I find not the best listeners because I want to be or not the best showers of their intention, because either it's like, well, I'm showing you what I'm doing, or I'm not getting anything from you to react off of.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:34.320
Yeah.
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.920
So now we have to stop and discuss every measure and try to make a plan.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:38.480
Yes.
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:42.000
And then in the moment the plan doesn't happen anyway because no one's doing that great.
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.400
Yeah, it's like, don't even bother writing this in because I'm probably going to change it next time anyway.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:49.039
Yeah.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:59.599
But and there's also those people who maybe they they do hear everything, but they don't have the patience or the empathy to be like, we're not playing well right now.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.599
Together and that's okay.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:03.519
Let's see what happens in the next section.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.440
Let's see what happens in the next section.
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:11.760
Let's see if we can find each other over the course of the next two minutes or three minutes or five minutes.
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.760
And that can be really beautiful too.
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.000
So you you have to have an openness.
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:23.519
You you really do have to be like a receiver as much or more as a giver when you're playing chamber music.
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:24.400
That's why I love it.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:32.639
I'm just like, you get to be an observer and a kind of subtle actor rather than um a leader.
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:34.159
I feel very uncomfortable.
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:37.119
I would feel super uncomfortable being a conductor.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:38.800
Yeah.
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.079
I have never had the desire to be a conductor.
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.599
Do you want to do some of the second movement just because it's so beautiful?
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:46.880
I was gonna suggest that.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.000
We didn't play through this at all, but we'll see if it works.
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:51.039
So pretty.
00:44:51.280 --> 00:45:01.119
Um this is the second movement of the Brahms F minor sonata for it's worth it's worth just hearing the opening, um, especially if you've never heard it.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:06.639
And as with all these pieces that we play, it's like really encourage you to go listen to the full versions.
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.480
And maybe there's some recording you want to suggest later, but I have no suggestions.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:11.679
Perfect.
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:44.559
So pretty.
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.840
And that one does work really well, I think, on clarinet.
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.320
Yeah.
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:59.679
Um, because they can enter a kind of sound and and like a in a stable way that is like still if they have really, really good breath control.
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:00.079
Right.
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:02.719
Well, violists can also do that if they're better than that.
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:03.360
No, no, no.
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:05.440
No, no, it's nothing new with that.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.960
I think it's just it's a different what I like about clarinetists.
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:17.119
I'm like, wow, you're playing reminding me of how good it sounds on the clarinet for really obvious reasons.
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:25.840
No, dude, it's just it's a different kind of song, yeah, like on the different instruments, and so like I I I find that really interesting.
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:29.840
Anyway, please play with me more.
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:30.480
Really?
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.400
You don't play that much viola anymore.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.360
You're always doing stand-up, which is I mean, that's just what you do.
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.599
I play a lot of viola in my stand-up, actually.
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.159
Like I I am playing a fair amount still.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:41.199
You do you are?
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:46.880
Yeah, I'm just not preparing recitals or playing like full programs with ensembles.
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:47.679
Yeah.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.639
I'm jumping in here or there or playing for my own comedic reasons.
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:59.599
Does it ever I was wondering if it ever gets tiring to play the same like excerpts in your in your stand-up sets and stuff?
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:01.440
No, not yet.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:05.119
Because it's just a relief to play something I'm comfortable playing.
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:07.360
I have so much anxiety around playing.
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:08.000
Really?
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:11.760
Like, I mean, even just now, playing that slow movement, especially I was really nervous just now.
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:12.800
I was like, don't mess with it.
00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:13.920
Like, I was really in my head.
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:14.320
Yeah.
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:28.079
Um it's that's part of the reason why I've distanced myself a little from like just being a musician, is because I have so many demons around it, and it's it's just not the most fun thing for me to do a lot of the time.
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:40.960
Um but in stand-up, playing something I know I can nail, and I'm leading towards like a laugh and joy, and it's it's it's like the most therapeutic way to approach the instrument for me.
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:44.400
So I'm sure, I mean, um I get sick sometimes, sick of something.
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:45.679
I get sick sometimes.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:46.320
A lot.
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.400
I'm very sick right now in the head.
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:52.559
Uh I get sick of things and swap them out when I was sobbing.
00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:07.519
Also, doing this podcast and in general, I can't listen to too much classical music sometimes because I get really sad because it reminds me of like how much of a role it used to play in my life.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:10.480
Because I did really I do really love it.
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:21.760
It's just certain uh circumstances of pursuing the life of a professional performer of classical music that just I don't think is sustainable for me.
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:29.039
But because of that, I have sort of given up a life of like there's just less music in my life.
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:29.599
Yeah.
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:41.840
And it's so connected to like my family and where I came from and and so much emotion and love for me that I sometimes I hear pieces and I'm like, oh damn, like music is really good and powerful.
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:48.079
Yeah, and I just I wish I didn't push it away so much, but whatever.
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:49.280
We'll figure it out.
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:54.079
Uh you know, by episode 100, yeah, I'm gonna get you to feel differently about it.
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:57.840
No, by episode a hundred, I'm gonna be like, I just can't figure out a healthy way to get it in my life.
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:01.280
Yeah, and I'm like, okay, maybe we should stop the podcast.
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:04.639
Every episode I just start crying more and more.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.679
I'm like, dude, I'm trying my best here.
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:09.760
I'm trying to sell this stuff.
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:13.599
Um well, guys, thank you so much for listening as always.
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:24.960
Check out some Beethoven, check out some Brahms, check out some classical music and slow movement of Opus 132 Beethoven's string quartet, the Heiliger Donka Song.
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.400
That's what one of the chorale movements we mentioned, but we did not play.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:29.679
If you want to go listen to that.
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.440
Start there, then make your way to Opus 109 Beethoven.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:34.880
Alright, talk to you soon.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:35.360
Bye.
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:36.079
Bye.
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.639
I thought I would play a movement or just the opening of a movement that's really special to me.
00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:10.160
Um and it's special because of one chord.
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:25.280
I just like I think I might have learned about this in music theory somewhere, you know, but I never really got it until I was an adult just reading through this piece and just just feeling it out for myself.
00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:32.479
That can be so important to like recontextualize the music after you've escaped your training, you know.
00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:38.000
So this is the opening of the second movement of Beethoven's Apassionata Sonata.
00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:40.880
It's a theme in variations.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:42.640
I'm just gonna play the theme.
00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:53.599
And whenever Beethoven writes in a kind of chorale setting, I feel like it's entering a more spiritual place.
00:01:54.079 --> 00:02:00.079
It's kind of like a hearkening back to Bach chorals, to the Baroque era or beyond that to Renaissance.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:15.280
And there's some there's just something sacred about that just contextually and also I don't know, in your body, just feeling a four-voiced corral is automatically satisfying.
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.759
What is that?
00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.240
It's like a reminder, like, oh yeah, there might be something bigger than us, you know.
00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:21.199
Yes, yeah.
00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:26.960
And and when we come together and we unify in our voices is when we're strongest.
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:37.199
You know, like when we have a beautiful melody on top with accompaniment, that's one thing that's expressing the soul, the individual, um, the personal.
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:45.039
But when the voices come together, moving all together at the same time.
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:51.840
It's like this, you know, phalanx.
00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:56.719
That's why choirs are always like used to add emotion.
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:07.280
Um anytime there's a pop singer doing a big show, and then they bring in a choir to sort of sing like a they sing the chorus one time around as a choir.
00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:07.599
Yeah.
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.759
And you're just like, oh, like it's so cheesy, but it just always pulls at you.
00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:26.639
Yeah, but Beethoven, his chorale use is always very spiritual, like the I'm thinking of the Heiliger Donkazong movement of Opus 132 string quartet, which is a super slowed down chorale.
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:32.639
Like it's it's almost imperceivable that it's a chorale because it's so slow.
00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:44.960
But if you play it sped up, you realize it is just these this beautiful chorale going through, and he also has the intense voice uh spacing like he does in this movement.
00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:54.400
I was thinking also the slow, I mean, I love the slow movement of the Emperor concerto, which the piano doesn't have this, but the orchestra has it right away.
00:03:54.719 --> 00:04:05.120
Where all the voices are moving together in a kind of hymn, you know.
00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:20.959
For the piano to finally enter.
00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:39.120
Etcetera, but that is just yeah, he sets up the movement with a chorale or with a with a hymn, with something that is um making everything stand still for the piano.
00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:46.800
You know, and it's like setting up the tone uh before the piano gets to sing in a very spiritual and personal way.
00:05:47.519 --> 00:06:09.600
Yeah, I'm just always well not always, but often so much more moved by that opening section you played rather than the one voice coming in and oh oh what's this character like the singular character struggle is just a lot less emotional for me than this sort of recognition of just like we are all like connected.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.240
That's what moves me m most now.
00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:20.160
I think that's why I love uh not to I'm immediately getting off of Beethoven here, but Schubert.
00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:31.600
Uh the Schubert uh so much of Schubert's music is this kind of texture when he goes to those intimate places.
00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.879
It's not I mean he has unbelievable songs.
00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:35.839
That's the irony of it.
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.680
He is the leader master.
00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.480
You know, he created meaning of leader.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:42.240
Leader is uh song.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:44.560
LEED is the German word for song.
00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:45.920
L-I-E-D, right?
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:47.759
L-I-E-D, leiter.
00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:49.199
Leiter Leder.
00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:54.560
And um So he has a lot of these song cycles that are for like tenor and piano.
00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:02.800
The idea that I mean I guess Beethoven had one or two technically that people don't do too much.
00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:08.399
But um how how bad does it feel if someone refers to you having a certain work of art technically?
00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:09.279
Ouch.
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:10.800
Well, Beethoven's got a lot of good.
00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:15.920
That's how I would describe it.
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:18.319
We technically have a podcast.
00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:20.800
Um if you'd like to check it out.
00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:22.399
Hey, I do these videos.
00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.720
You know, Isabel's got stand-up and we technically we have a podcast.
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.279
We don't really we're not really talking about it very much yet.
00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:37.759
Uh we'll see what happens, we'll see what whether we have chemistry and whether that chemistry leads into something organically uh fulfilling for people.
00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:42.720
But right now we're in the technically stage of the podcast.
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:53.279
Um but anyway, Schubert Schubert can do that beautiful song stuff, like vinterize.
00:07:53.519 --> 00:08:24.480
I mean, you know, all the beautiful song cycles he has where there's a narrative from beginning to end, and all these songs are connected in some way by a story, but then he can also go into this realm, which is also a song, but because of the unified voices and harmonic rhythm, it also feels like a chorale, doesn't it?
00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:36.000
It has a melody, but right here.
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:49.120
So tender and so um I mean it's not so sacred, right?
00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:55.440
Because he he I think the personality of that voice on top makes it a little more human.
00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.519
A little more tender, a little less sacred.
00:08:57.759 --> 00:08:58.960
Yeah, a little less sacred.
00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.679
But when it comes back around, much like in the appassionata, you said there's one chord you love.
00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.399
Isn't there another another chord we have to get to in this?
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:11.840
Well, I mean, for one thing, the chord we did get to toward the end of the phrase I find really beautiful.
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:22.960
And a lot of this, I'll connect it back to the appassionata right now in a way because I think the really deep stuff, the stuff where you're like, oh my heart is breaking there in that moment.
00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:32.960
I think that occurs when form and harmony meet each other in a really expressive and beautiful way.
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:40.159
You cannot not think about the form and structure of what you're doing in music, partly because it's it's a temporal art, it's just always going.
00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:50.159
So um a part of it's kind of like for a painting, you're thinking about all this geometry of how things are in space and time, right?
00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:52.320
Not so much time.
00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:57.519
For music, time is pulling is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there.
00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:04.879
It's like what happened before and how it relates to what's happening in the future sets up a feeling.
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:10.399
And composers are super aware of that, and that is what form and structure are in music.
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:12.639
So here, there's not much going on.
00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:19.440
It's very beautiful, it's pianissimo, but harmonically, nothing interesting is really happening.
00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:23.039
We're in A flat, we're just doing normal A flat stuff.
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.480
We're setting up this emphasis on B2, which is nice, has a lilt.
00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:31.840
There we have a little emphasis on B3.
00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.039
Now we just do the same thing in octave higher.
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:36.879
Nothing that special.
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.600
But we've been waiting for this.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:43.840
This chord here.
00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:49.200
And then we'll cadence.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:59.600
But that chord is a move outside the key that we haven't gotten this whole time.
00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.840
We've gone through one, two, three, four, I don't know, like 12 measures or something.
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:07.440
And is that the chord I was referring to, or am I imagining another?
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:08.720
Oh, there's more.
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:11.120
There's more later, but we don't have to fully analyze this one.
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.840
I mean, that to me is a very special chord.
00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:22.799
Um, where that's very Schubert, that's very like bittersweet remembering of something.
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.600
Um and then letting go.
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:30.879
Where it's it's only momentary.
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.039
I'm not gonna get stuck in that like Wagner.
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.720
I'm just gonna like, huh.
00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:38.000
Isn't that isn't that beautiful, that pain?
00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:44.000
Isn't that part of what it means to be human, to feel a little nostalgia and bitterness or bittersweetness?
00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.399
And then we have to keep going.
00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:48.480
It's a chromatic motion in there, right?
00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:55.919
Like is that what the chromaticism is in the um inner voices.
00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:56.320
Yeah.
00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:03.919
So without that inner voice, it's actually totally normal it works.
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:11.519
But it's that note, that E flat that's crawling up to an E natural.
00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:14.639
Yeah, like you said, the chromatic note.
00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:23.840
And Schuber loves these chromatic changes that are very subtle but open up a whole new emotional realm.
00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:27.519
I mean, he does this like all the time in his music.
00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:48.559
This is in the key of A flat minor, but when it comes back later, it comes back in the parallel key of A flat major, and all he needed to change there was that the third was raised by a half step.
00:12:48.720 --> 00:13:03.039
So he has a real subtle, sophisticated notion of how to make you how to make you feel something internally rather than try to pull you into the emotion like in a blunt way.
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:06.799
Well, he's literally having the stuff happen internally in the chord.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:08.799
Inside, in the inner voices.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.960
It's usually the harmony in the inner voices that are leading the leading the way.
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.399
Let's get back to the um Apassionata.
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:24.240
I think I can guess what your favorite chord is.
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:24.799
Oh, really?
00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:25.039
Yeah.
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:30.480
Okay, well, let me play it one more time, at least the first eight bars, and see if our listeners can guess.
00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.679
Should I be like a face?
00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:34.080
No.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:34.960
All right, one sec.
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.799
Again, it's that chroma there's a chromatic pa is it a chromatic passing tone?
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:31.840
Is that what it is?
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:44.879
So what it is, is this is toward the end of the phrase where he moves down to this augmented six chord, but it's how it resolves that is so beautiful.
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:45.279
Yeah.
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:50.000
Because normally you might go to this or something.
00:14:53.120 --> 00:15:01.519
Um you might do that, but this G goes down to the side.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:08.240
That so it retroactively makes the previous note a chromatic passing tone.
00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:08.799
No?
00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:10.480
I'm I don't know why I'm stuck on this.
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.960
Are you trying to cry?
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.600
I'm trying not to cry because it's this is what happens to every single time when I'm like, is it a passing tone?
00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.879
It's about I don't give a shit if it's a passing tone or not.
00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:33.600
Um I mean it's nice to explain this stuff, and it's nice to try to put your head around it conceptually so that you can explain what's so meaningful and beautiful about it.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.279
And also sometimes it's nice to just let it hit you.
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:50.480
But I for me why it's so beautiful is I like I guess I like to imagine that that choice to resolve it in that unusual way is a choice.
00:15:51.600 --> 00:16:17.919
He could have done this, he could have done this like, you know, or he could have done, I don't know, any you know, I don't know, he could have done any number of different predominant chords to get there, but instead he chooses this one that's like a stab to the heart, and then like I feel that as such deep acceptance.
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:25.440
I think it's because it's lowering that it's like, no, we're not gonna go there, you know.
00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:30.559
Like we're not gonna, I'm not gonna give you what you think you want.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:37.519
I'm gonna pull you a little deeper into a a more raw and real place.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:55.600
That is like when we go to that place, we let go of concept, we let go of trying to understand, and it's just a release and I don't know, an acceptance of the reality of things when we have the right perspective.
00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:02.000
It's so hard to put that into words, um, but that chord just really, really moves me.
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:10.480
And then almost like the Schubert, it's like, okay, well, we gotta move on.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.039
Like, and life goes on.
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.400
Yeah, and so here's the second part of the theme.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:17.839
We gotta keep going.
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:21.680
And it's a little more hopeful, maybe.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:25.599
There's a little more motion in this, you know, more individualism here.
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:31.279
He's reaching higher, a crescendo.
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.440
Talk about, you know, Emperor Concerto, nobility.
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:39.680
There's something noble in that, and then.
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.720
And this is actually a set of variations.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:51.599
So we have that first theme, and the variations unfold very organically, very gently.
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.119
It's like he starts off.
00:17:53.279 --> 00:18:27.440
I can't play this whole thing, but it's almost like he's immediately dissecting or like picking apart the very simple harmony in a in a very natural way.
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.519
He's letting it unfold.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.200
I think that's he has a lot of patience, uh ironically.
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:39.519
But we think of Beethoven as impetuous, but with the with movements like these, he has had incredible patience.
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:55.920
Um, it reminds me of the third movement of Opus 109, the famous late piano sonata and E major, which the third movement also is a theme in variations that has this really beautiful, profound kind of chorale.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:03.920
But it's really kind of like more like a little folk song that's accompanied by this harmony, very intimate.
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.240
Beethoven totally overdoes the markings here.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:21.279
He says you gotta play this as expressively as possible and beautifully as possible with all this singing.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.920
It can really tie people up in knots.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:33.920
Because you're trying to capture this sacred quality of this really simple theme, and then he's not in a hurry when he starts the variations.
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:37.039
It's like a little aria.
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:02.000
And then just like the Apassionata, he kind of breaks it down a little.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:10.640
It's really modern.
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:11.680
It's very modern.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.240
It's because almost like Vabern.
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:15.440
Yeah.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:43.920
Maybe it's the way I'm playing it too, but it feels like Beethoven had a lot more textural exploration in his music than a lot of his contemporaries.
00:20:44.640 --> 00:21:00.240
Like he I'm not saying his music w necessarily was like, oh, it's uh really just experimental, but but there are elements of it that are like quirky, even just the spacing in his voicing, and then something like that.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:05.279
And you do just wonder how much of it was was because of his hearing loss too.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:05.839
Yeah.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:15.359
And him just almost having less of a limitation or just searching for things that he could still sort of feel the resonance of.
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:16.640
You know?
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:30.720
Like texture plays more of a role in his mind, maybe in part because he's searching for different timbers in a way that someone who could clearly hear doesn't have the need or urge to do.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.000
Um that that would make sense to me.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:39.279
I mean, especially like if you're if you're playing these low registers and it's like vibrating in a certain way.
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.960
Maybe that's what partly drove him to write in those dark registers.
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.240
Could be.
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:59.759
And he was just exploring and exploring as an innovator, as a revolutionary, he was constantly trying to push the instrument to its limits and see what what music he could squeeze out of different.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:01.920
Yeah.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:02.319
Right.
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.599
Um put he did not care whether it was hard.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:06.880
Let's just say that.
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:14.000
He didn't care whether you had to be flying around the piano going to this range and that range, uh reading all these ledger lines like Beethoven and I think that's a good idea.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.680
You say he doesn't care be just because clearly he kept doing that?
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:28.160
Is that what I just he just from everything I just have read about him and stuff, it's it's that he he put the music first before the human being who's trying to play the music.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:45.680
Whereas some other composers uh will especially from his day or before, would tailor the music a little bit, adjust the music because, well, hey Beethoven, this isn't in my range to sing or you know, um I don't know, this is just I don't have time to practice this.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.119
Can you make an easy piece for me?
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.039
He wasn't interested in composing for you, for the convenience of you.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.200
He's just interested in uh expressing whatever's in him.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.079
You know, and and you could kind of c care less if you're able to play it.
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.559
Okay, well I'll find someone else who can, or I'll play it myself.
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:23.920
Um I wanted to also bring up the opening of the first movement of the appassionata because unlike the second movement, which is so serene, it's such a break, the first movement is full of anxiety, and it's that classic Beethoven that we uh come to know throughout his heroic period.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.359
I mean this is Opus 57.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:26.799
What's the heroic period?
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.680
Is that an actual period?
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:29.119
I didn't say heroic period.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:34.160
I usually I usually think of uh I usually think of the middle period uh as a period.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.279
Why did I say heroic?
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:37.039
Maybe I think of the heroic symphony.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.200
Does that mean heroic heroica?
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:39.839
Yeah.
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:40.319
Okay.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.079
I mean it's like a an expression of heroicism.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:44.559
Okay.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:46.640
But um I think.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.640
But he uh yawn.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:52.480
Yeah, yeah, thanks, Isabel.
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.519
Um ask a question and they get bored by the answer.
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:56.799
That's a good way to interview.
00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.240
Um what inspires you?
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.160
Oh, he gets contagious.
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:19.759
So but in this middle period, anyway, where I do think of him as um in his peace his pieces tend to start in this like anxious uh state of turbulence and then end with a heroic triumph.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.759
Maybe that's why I say heroic period.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.960
But the appassionata starts this way.
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.519
Oh, I'm starting in the wrong range.
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:30.319
I'm giving Beethoven I'm I'm I did Beethoven a favor.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:30.480
Yeah.
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.720
My right hand started at octave lower.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.440
But this is way more powerful because the space between the voices.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.000
This is something like Shastakovich.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.319
Oh, because it's two octaves between them, right?
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:42.640
Okay.
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:43.359
I mean, I don't know.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:44.640
It is like Shastakovich.
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:53.359
Shastakovich will be like, he'll have a melody like you know, he'll everything in unison and the higher register, you know.
00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:00.319
You know, uh, but an octave apart, or two octaves apart to give that whoa, it's like somehow more intense.
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:01.839
It's not as unified.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:06.319
It's clearly two individual voices just struggling to do the same thing.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:20.640
And here he's a master of using those rests, right?
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:21.920
Those dramatic rests.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.440
And then he's like, you know what?
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.799
Let's start the piece over, but uh half a step higher.
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:38.799
Just another question.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.960
There's a little hint of Beethoven's fifth.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:53.839
Whoops, sorry, let me try.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.839
So so much expectation and intensity.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.119
This is such a way to start a sonata, you know?
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:12.559
And then I I can't even play this part, I haven't practiced it, but it explodes.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.200
Just gonna generically play a C7.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.880
And then it's kind of like the piece truly begins.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:45.119
So there's drama right away in this F minor work by Beethoven.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.960
I want to say one other thing about this this unison thing.
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.000
Is a thing.
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:51.200
Like composers do that.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:57.839
I was gonna ask, is that very radical in terms of the times using employing unison like that?
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.039
I don't think it's very I don't think it's very radical.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:12.400
I think it's usually it's a symbol of like an orchestral kind of feeling when when composers um I'm trying to think.
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.119
Even very early, Opus 1 number three, his his piano trio in C minor.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.079
Oh yeah, right.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:27.680
I mean all of that is violin, cello, and piano playing in unison.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:36.640
And I think what it does really well is it leaves you wondering, first of all, what harmony are we in?
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:46.720
I mean, it's already it is implying with this is implying C minor, but it's not like going.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:49.519
Right.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:54.000
Even Mozart in a dun dun dun dun dun dun.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:54.960
Oh yeah.
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:58.079
The piano quartet.
00:27:58.319 --> 00:27:59.599
Oh shoot, let me pull it up really much.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:08.640
Yeah, I played it a long time ago, but but all the instruments are playing in unison for that opening.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:09.599
Oh, that's right.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:10.400
Oh, that's right.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:11.839
Yeah, violin, viola, chello.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:15.279
The piano quartet.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:16.240
Yeah, good call.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:17.119
Mozart.
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.279
And then there's this like little interruption.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.079
And then they come back together.
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.160
So maybe it's a kind of symbol of drama, you know, traditionally.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.000
But composers throughout time will use this.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.759
I mean Ooh, I just thought of another one.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.400
Beethoven opus 95 string quartet.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.720
But Beethoven does it kind of a lot.
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:43.519
He does it a lot.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:45.839
Because he just wants to grab your attention right away.
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.279
Yeah, party trick.
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:52.079
This is sleazy like Beethoven will use this one simple trick.
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:53.839
Composers hate him.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.519
Um starting in unison, gets him every time.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:01.839
But Brahms will take this and run with it, and that's why you have your viola, right?
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.319
Oh, yeah, we can but the unison part's not the viola.
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:06.000
No, no, no, I just thought of that.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:12.720
But the the fact we were we were thinking that, okay, F minor appassionata, Beethoven.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:17.039
What other works are in F minor that have that similar character?
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:25.119
And especially by someone like Brahms, who revered Beethoven, um, and then immediately, I mean, you're a violist, so you know this piece really well.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.119
You mentioned the F minor viola sonata.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.039
Well it's a clarinet sonata originally.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:29.519
Right.
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.880
And then violists arguably, I think it's I thought he arranged it also for viola.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:38.559
Everyone is I yes, Brahms allegedly arranged.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.000
I heard someone told me that, like, actually he didn't, but that might be wrong.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:47.279
But the common knowledge is that Brahms did the viola arrangements as well, but it was originally written for a clarinetist.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.359
It was definitely originally written for clarinet.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:55.200
Yeah, but a viola and a clarinet share uh voice, so viola can play clarinet music pretty easily.
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:56.079
A lot of the time.
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:58.319
Yeah, they they share, they share the same register.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.480
Yeah, that's what I mean by vo register, yeah.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.039
Yeah, they're both alto instruments, I guess.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:14.000
Yes, but the fun thing about the Brahms connection and the appassionata is one, it starts in unison, and then when the viola comes in, the first three notes are the same three notes as the beginning of the appassionata.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.279
Yeah, you want to play some of it?
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:24.880
Let's do it, but I also just before we leave the unison thing, I want to mention like this is not like just a classical thing.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:31.359
I mean, yeah, like Brahms, you know, we'll we'll start pieces just as you'll hear in in unisons.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:37.599
But I've whenever I think of unison, I think of Messien, uh Olivier Messienne's quartet for the end of time.
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.039
Oh, the entire unison movement.
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.279
The sixth movement is entirely in unison.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:46.079
That's for a totally different purpose and effect, but every instrument is playing.
00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:51.519
How many instruments?
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:52.079
Four.
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:52.880
Four.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.279
Clarinet, violin, cello, piano.
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.400
So I mean, if you want to if you want to really go wild.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.319
That's like how long of a movement is that?
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.799
Um it's a significant, maybe like seven minutes or something.
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:16.400
Right, it's not just an opening, it's like a whole movement in unison.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:23.839
And the w the reason he uses that technique is because this is like a fanfare of Trump, it's signaling the end of the apocalypse.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:30.000
So it's like the intensity of unison's squeezed to its maximum potential.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.839
And like, hey, maybe it all starts with Beethoven or Mozart.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:46.160
But this concept is kind of it's fascinating when you see these uh concepts that seem just fundamental to music that are then discovered and rediscovered and used by other composers for different reasons.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:51.039
Um it makes you feel like things are kind of connected, even if they're not obviously connected.
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:51.440
Right.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.279
I mean, you know, anyway.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:55.599
Should we give them a little taste of the Brahms?
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.880
Yeah, I feel stupid about the clarinet viola arrangements thing.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:08.480
But I I swear I because everyone says Brahms did these arrangements to make them for viola.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.119
No, that's what I heard doing then I had one masterclass, can't even remember who.
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.759
This guy was like, No, there's like a letter from Brahms saying, like, I hate these arrangements.
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:19.119
Oh, yes, the famous letter.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.400
Yeah, it's always a letter.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:21.440
Anyway, I don't know.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.799
If you're a historian, you can look it up, you can comment.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.640
The secret letter.
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:29.440
All right.
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:30.319
Exciting.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.079
Isabel's got her viola on her.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:32.960
Let's play some brand.
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:33.920
Incredibly.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:34.720
No, I don't know.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.319
And then we'll talk about the connections between the apposhanata sonata.
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:40.079
Apasshanata sonata.
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:43.920
And this Brahms F minor sonata.
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:45.359
All right, let's do it.
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.799
Beginning with Unison's.
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:50.079
I mean Violet's will do like crazy fingerings to avoid the string crossings, but I just I can't.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:50.559
Really?
00:33:50.960 --> 00:34:06.880
Like instead of but I just think it's so goofy, and I'd rather I like the anytime I can be in sorry, anytime I can be in like first or third position, I just also think it sounds better.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:08.960
It's not just that it's kind of easier, but Yeah.
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:10.400
Well go ahead.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.639
I mean you can do it, but on a clarinet there's no string crossing, so it makes sense that this was originally written for a clarinet.
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:29.519
Well, but and there's there's what you miss in the clarinet, though, is the effort between notes.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.599
Well, that a lot of times I hear a clarinet play this piece and it's just like it's easier.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.119
Yeah, like you're pushing buttons a little bit.
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:38.719
Yeah, like you're playing the recorder.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:39.440
Totally.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:41.119
Um, but yeah.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:46.559
Um and I do like it when clarinetists add even a little vibrato to this kind of stuff.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:48.159
Because I mean, I know it's whatever.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.360
It's so funny that clarinet is one instrument where if you add vibrato, everyone's like, okay, Benny Goodman.
00:34:53.679 --> 00:35:04.239
Yeah, yeah, that's that's true, but like it needs or it it I think it can withstand, this music can withstand the kind of vibrato that you're putting on the viola.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:11.599
I mean, like what you get to do with a viola that they can't do as well, maybe, or naturally, is vibrate.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:18.320
You know, you've studied your whole life on how to vibrate um tastefully, and that leads to a more singing quality.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:33.199
The the clarinet is naturally like a lyrical instrument, just because it's a wind instrument and the the tone and stuff and how one note leads into the other in a really legato, beautiful way, but you get to sing with with your finger more.
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.719
You get that that tactile expression that they don't have.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:40.079
Right.
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.800
So connections between the two pieces.
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:51.119
One we just noticed in the score is the tempo marking is allegro appassionado, probably just a coincidence.
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:52.719
Yeah, never know with Brahms.
00:35:53.039 --> 00:36:07.920
Brahms has these um expressive tempo markings sometimes, you know, um, where it's not just allegro, you know, but it's allegro amabile or something, or allegro appassionado.
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.239
Monotropo, monotropo, but not too much.
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:10.960
Not too much.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.039
Does he ever just mark things allegro?
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:14.480
Yeah, I think he I think he does.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:19.119
I can't think of the top of my head, but especially early on, I think Allegro Conbrio was like, you know.
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:20.400
That's not just Allegro.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.639
I guess that is, but Beethoven wrote that.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:22.960
Oh.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.880
I guess he plays around with the expression of tempo markings a little bit more than the average person.
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.760
And I mean, it doesn't feel Allegro.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:46.960
Maybe I'm not playing it fast enough, but I think because he's not starting right away with eighth notes or with uh sixteenth notes or with fast moving notes, there is a little bit of reservation at the opening.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:58.960
Not to mention the uh temp the dynamic marking is poco forte, a little forte, or like somewhat forte, like don't be too forte.
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.800
So let's not get too strong too soon.
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:06.320
Whoops.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:13.199
Oh god.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:16.000
Which I get.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:38:10.880
Uh I got the so brom's by the way, to just like as soon as he gives you this big he gives you this big you know, this like big explosion of the dominant, like, okay, we're gonna now we're really getting somewhere.
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:17.199
And then it's just like never mind, never mind.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:28.159
It's kind of like it kind of fades into this like like uncertainty that is so so prevalent in his heart a lot of the time, at least based on his music.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:48.800
He often ends pieces, like the fourth movement is like quite unsatisfying a lot of the time, where it's like this meandering movement of uh like the last movement of the of the C minor piano quartet, which is one of his most epic and dramatic pieces, but it ends with it ends with this movement that's kind of like searching and trying to find itself.
00:38:49.039 --> 00:39:01.039
It's like, dude, give us like a satisfying conclusion, and so he kind of fades away here, and then he's like, Oh yeah, this is supposed to be Allegro Apassionado.
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.079
So it's like it's like finally we get these.
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:25.519
I messed up the Also, we should note that you're playing off music and I'm playing from memory, which feels like a flawed way to do this because you're consulting all of the markings and like because I have the notes memorized, I don't have the markings like you don't have the markings memorized.
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:27.119
No.
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.880
Well, but so but you've played this piece, I assume.
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:31.360
Yeah.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:31.760
Yeah.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.400
So yeah, I don't memorize anything anymore, dude.
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:40.800
It's just it's just Well, when I perform this in recital with a pianist, I play off the music as well.
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:44.559
Because the sonata to me is a a real chamber piece.
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.039
So we should be on even playing field.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:50.320
And generally when you're playing chamber music, everyone's reading off of the music.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:40:06.239
But if I'm playing like a concerto but with piano accompaniment, I might play the concerto from memory because it's a little bit the solo instrument of the concerto is at a uh on a higher level musically than the orchestra part, or you know what I mean?
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.880
Yeah, it's intentionally given a real spotlight.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:09.280
Yeah.
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:22.320
Whereas a duo, yeah, I've played I've played plenty of times with people who are super memorized and super in their own part um and don't have maybe the curiosity of like, hey, what's going on there?
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:32.079
Or oh, I can see what you have in your part there, let me try to match you, or maybe this is dialogue between the two of us, and instead they're like, it's obvious they just want me to lay down the part.
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:36.880
And um and those chamber experiences are just not as interesting to me at all.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:44.800
Because I'm not interested in delivering a perfect performance of a piece um with other people.
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:48.880
I'm interested in the conversation that arises in the process.
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:51.519
Like, hey, let's figure this out, let's figure that out.
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.280
Why do you feel that way?
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:59.840
And then the result of that dialogue is the the best expression possible.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:05.360
Not you come in with your idea, I'll come in with my idea, let's try to um perfect it somehow.
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.719
Well, I I this is why I really hate rehearsing in general.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.719
I mean, as it when we didn't rehearse this.
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:11.440
We didn't.
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.400
But obviously, when you're a child or when you're learning, you need to rehearse.
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:38.719
But with two people who come in prepared with their own parts and they have the music in front of them, sure you want to play through it a few times, get settled in, but the rehearsal where you're like, hey, what do you I feel like there I'm not feeling your uh like I I don't and to me it's if you're not feeling it, it's because one of you just isn't doing your job and talking about it isn't gonna fix much.
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:39.760
Like it might.
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:44.719
But you sh to me, it should be able to be an in-the-moment dialogue.
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:52.320
You can practice having the dialogue a couple times, but if it's not already there, if you're not already able to listen and react in real time.
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.199
Yeah.
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:58.400
I take like if I'm working with someone, I'm taking you at face value with the way you're playing.
00:41:58.559 --> 00:41:58.719
Yeah.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:10.800
So in other words, like okay, you you uh you know, let's say you started off, let's say at a different tempo than me or something, then I'm gonna go with that.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.199
I'm gonna be like, oh, she knows what she wants because I'm gonna assume that I'm gonna have trust.
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:16.559
You know what you want.
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:18.960
Now let me meet you there.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:20.079
You're trying to tell me something.
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.239
You're trying to say, hey, I don't like your tempo, I like this tempo.
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:23.840
And I was like, let's try that.
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:27.360
And you have that whole back and forth just by listening.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:27.840
Yeah.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:37.920
So like and let's say I'm trying to say to you, okay, yeah, that's a good tempo, but like, can we try this other tempo maybe?
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:43.360
I can also suggest that by playing a little bit faster and trusting you're listening to me too.
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:50.559
You're listening to me kind of poke you and say, Isabel, I dig your tempo, but can we do it a little bit faster or something like that?
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:51.039
Yeah.
00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:01.679
And then if you don't get that memo and we're kind of off from each other, and then we stop, and it's like it's just not right.
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:03.519
Then it's like, well, let's talk about it.
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:09.679
That means like the listening wasn't happening closely enough, and now words are required, which happens, dude.
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:18.159
It happens, it's not like I'll never say anything, but you find yourself in rehearsals with those people who are constantly stopping and constantly asking.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:33.920
And it those are always the ones who are like, I find not the best listeners because I want to be or not the best showers of their intention, because either it's like, well, I'm showing you what I'm doing, or I'm not getting anything from you to react off of.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:34.320
Yeah.
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.920
So now we have to stop and discuss every measure and try to make a plan.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:38.480
Yes.
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:42.000
And then in the moment the plan doesn't happen anyway because no one's doing that great.
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.400
Yeah, it's like, don't even bother writing this in because I'm probably going to change it next time anyway.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:49.039
Yeah.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:59.599
But and there's also those people who maybe they they do hear everything, but they don't have the patience or the empathy to be like, we're not playing well right now.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.599
Together and that's okay.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:03.519
Let's see what happens in the next section.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.440
Let's see what happens in the next section.
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:11.760
Let's see if we can find each other over the course of the next two minutes or three minutes or five minutes.
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.760
And that can be really beautiful too.
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.000
So you you have to have an openness.
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:23.519
You you really do have to be like a receiver as much or more as a giver when you're playing chamber music.
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:24.400
That's why I love it.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:32.639
I'm just like, you get to be an observer and a kind of subtle actor rather than um a leader.
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:34.159
I feel very uncomfortable.
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:37.119
I would feel super uncomfortable being a conductor.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:38.800
Yeah.
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.079
I have never had the desire to be a conductor.
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.599
Do you want to do some of the second movement just because it's so beautiful?
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:46.880
I was gonna suggest that.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.000
We didn't play through this at all, but we'll see if it works.
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:51.039
So pretty.
00:44:51.280 --> 00:45:01.119
Um this is the second movement of the Brahms F minor sonata for it's worth it's worth just hearing the opening, um, especially if you've never heard it.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:06.639
And as with all these pieces that we play, it's like really encourage you to go listen to the full versions.
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.480
And maybe there's some recording you want to suggest later, but I have no suggestions.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:11.679
Perfect.
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:44.559
So pretty.
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.840
And that one does work really well, I think, on clarinet.
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.320
Yeah.
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:59.679
Um, because they can enter a kind of sound and and like a in a stable way that is like still if they have really, really good breath control.
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:00.079
Right.
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:02.719
Well, violists can also do that if they're better than that.
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:03.360
No, no, no.
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:05.440
No, no, it's nothing new with that.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.960
I think it's just it's a different what I like about clarinetists.
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:17.119
I'm like, wow, you're playing reminding me of how good it sounds on the clarinet for really obvious reasons.
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:25.840
No, dude, it's just it's a different kind of song, yeah, like on the different instruments, and so like I I I find that really interesting.
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:29.840
Anyway, please play with me more.
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:30.480
Really?
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.400
You don't play that much viola anymore.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.360
You're always doing stand-up, which is I mean, that's just what you do.
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.599
I play a lot of viola in my stand-up, actually.
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.159
Like I I am playing a fair amount still.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:41.199
You do you are?
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:46.880
Yeah, I'm just not preparing recitals or playing like full programs with ensembles.
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:47.679
Yeah.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.639
I'm jumping in here or there or playing for my own comedic reasons.
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:59.599
Does it ever I was wondering if it ever gets tiring to play the same like excerpts in your in your stand-up sets and stuff?
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:01.440
No, not yet.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:05.119
Because it's just a relief to play something I'm comfortable playing.
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:07.360
I have so much anxiety around playing.
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:08.000
Really?
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:11.760
Like, I mean, even just now, playing that slow movement, especially I was really nervous just now.
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:12.800
I was like, don't mess with it.
00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:13.920
Like, I was really in my head.
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:14.320
Yeah.
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:28.079
Um it's that's part of the reason why I've distanced myself a little from like just being a musician, is because I have so many demons around it, and it's it's just not the most fun thing for me to do a lot of the time.
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:40.960
Um but in stand-up, playing something I know I can nail, and I'm leading towards like a laugh and joy, and it's it's it's like the most therapeutic way to approach the instrument for me.
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:44.400
So I'm sure, I mean, um I get sick sometimes, sick of something.
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:45.679
I get sick sometimes.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:46.320
A lot.
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.400
I'm very sick right now in the head.
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:52.559
Uh I get sick of things and swap them out when I was sobbing.
00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:07.519
Also, doing this podcast and in general, I can't listen to too much classical music sometimes because I get really sad because it reminds me of like how much of a role it used to play in my life.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:10.480
Because I did really I do really love it.
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:21.760
It's just certain uh circumstances of pursuing the life of a professional performer of classical music that just I don't think is sustainable for me.
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:29.039
But because of that, I have sort of given up a life of like there's just less music in my life.
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:29.599
Yeah.
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:41.840
And it's so connected to like my family and where I came from and and so much emotion and love for me that I sometimes I hear pieces and I'm like, oh damn, like music is really good and powerful.
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:48.079
Yeah, and I just I wish I didn't push it away so much, but whatever.
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:49.280
We'll figure it out.
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:54.079
Uh you know, by episode 100, yeah, I'm gonna get you to feel differently about it.
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:57.840
No, by episode a hundred, I'm gonna be like, I just can't figure out a healthy way to get it in my life.
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:01.280
Yeah, and I'm like, okay, maybe we should stop the podcast.
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:04.639
Every episode I just start crying more and more.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.679
I'm like, dude, I'm trying my best here.
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:09.760
I'm trying to sell this stuff.
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:13.599
Um well, guys, thank you so much for listening as always.
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:24.960
Check out some Beethoven, check out some Brahms, check out some classical music and slow movement of Opus 132 Beethoven's string quartet, the Heiliger Donka Song.
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.400
That's what one of the chorale movements we mentioned, but we did not play.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:29.679
If you want to go listen to that.
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.440
Start there, then make your way to Opus 109 Beethoven.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:34.880
Alright, talk to you soon.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:35.360
Bye.
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:36.079
Bye.
