WEBVTT
00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:04.559
Welcome to dancing in the discomfort zone.
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:14.960
This week with more to get rid of go-getters who have greater meaning, fulfillment, and impact in their lives.
00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:20.960
And to be able to clarify their goals, foster well-being, and be more effective leaders.
00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:32.880
This week has been the makeover life coach for Zelf magazine, fitness magazine, and blog, which today three million people have registered for.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:46.240
She's been quoted and published in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Fantasy Company, and Zelf Magazine, and her speaking clients include Capital One Bank, L'Oreal, Women in Banking, and Investgo, just to name a few.
00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:50.799
And today we're going to be talking about disruption and the mindset.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.960
And I'm super excited to welcome Lois Barth to the show.
00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.039
Lois, thank you for being with us today.
00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:58.640
Thank you so much, Anne.
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.359
I'm so excited to be here and talk about disruption.
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:09.760
I live in New York City, across the street from the noisiest, biggest hospital, and I help people have to um learn how to self-regulate and not take stress in.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.079
So the irony was not lost on me.
00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:16.719
So we're just gonna disrupt if we hear little beeps or sirens, my background music.
00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:18.239
We're gonna go back to New York City.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:22.719
In New York City, and how can we shift that thought right now we're having?
00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:24.560
So Anne, it's so great to be here.
00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:26.000
Thank you so much for inviting me.
00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.640
Yeah, no, it's great to have you here and uh back from my old stomping grounds in New York there.
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:32.640
Yeah, come back and visit.
00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:34.079
Yeah, I I'd love to.
00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:43.840
So talk to me a little bit about where how you got to this point of specializing in helping people think differently about change and disruption and all that stuff.
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:44.799
How did you get here?
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:46.239
Yeah, thank you so much, Ann.
00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.640
And I love your brand so much because disruption is such an important element.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:52.400
I mean, it's here to stay, right?
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:58.239
And it's how are we going to navigate it and not I I speak a lot about resiliency.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.640
It's not how to bounce back, how to bound forward.
00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:10.479
How to use disruption to actually move yourself forward, to reinvent who you are, for lack of a better catchphrase, but also how you want to show up.
00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:21.039
So one of my loisisms, which stands for lessons, opportunities, insights and solutions, say that five times fast, is life is always talking, make sure you're listening.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.400
And for me, you know, it's just that's what it is.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:30.800
If we just stay aware and awake and compassionate, then wow, we can just learn and grow so much.
00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.759
So I had a horrific eating disorder in my teens.
00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:47.360
Between 15 and 17, I went from 120 pounds feeling fat, ha, to 91 pounds to 180 pounds in less than two years.
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:48.240
Yeah, I know.
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.159
That's what the look on the face of most people who saw me four years later.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:56.080
They didn't recognize me, but worse, I didn't recognize myself.
00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:08.080
And what happened was what I realized is nothing, and and I know we both share this as being Sparkle Sisters, Anne, is that when you have so much, you put the joie in your de Viv, right?
00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.439
You've got to, you were blessed, we were blessed with incredible life force energies.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.280
It's just who it's just our, you know, divine DNA, right?
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:21.840
And nothing is worse than uh when a belly full of passion and a head full of negative self-talk.
00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:27.599
And my critics, for some those of you who are astrology people, I have like four planets in Virgo.
00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:33.199
I come from parents who were incredibly loving but also brutally hard on themselves.
00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.599
So um that was me.
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.960
And I was relentless with myself.
00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:40.479
Relentless.
00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:45.680
And I was, as I live now in New York City, I was.
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.599
It's funny how life shows up.
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:55.919
I was locking the door, and my my character, my head critic, who I call Slash, he's sort of like Chucky from those movies.
00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:08.639
Here I am to ruin your day! You know, so that was him or her or it or non-binary, and I was locking my door um to just do something.
00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.080
And Slash said, You're never gonna lose the weight.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.240
You're gonna be 180 pounds for the rest of your life.
00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:27.920
And somebody else entered, some other part of me, which was I call uh my lovey, my loving, open voice of intuition.
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.160
She calls herself sweetheart, and just a very quiet voice.
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:33.920
She's just said, yo, sweetheart.
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.079
She's from Brooklyn, I'm from Long Island.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:40.879
And she said, Yo, lovey, yo, low.
00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:48.720
How would you live your life if you could never lose or gain another mic drop?
00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:49.759
Mic drop.
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:54.639
And like, you know, automatic pilot, but not the bad one that causes you to do scroll.
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.920
But like it was like this spiritual awakening.
00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:10.160
I went back into my apartment, I took out the scale, and we have in our hallway one man's trash is another person's cool stuff pile, and I wrote, This scale works perfectly, it just no longer works for me.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:19.680
And I went back and I started to automatic writing, free associate, a hundred things I'm waiting to do until I get thin.
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:26.240
And I purposely, because I love language, I know we both share that, I called it my weightless W-E-I-G-H-T.
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:26.879
Huh?
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:32.079
And I had things on it like buy a bathing suit.
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:36.480
That's not black, and in New York, that's like taboo because everybody wears black in New York.
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:41.439
Wear the bathing suit, flirt with guys even if you don't think you're in their league.
00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:43.040
What else?
00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.079
Audition for shows even if you don't feel you're good enough.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:48.720
And I made a commitment that I would go through that list.
00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.079
It was about a hundred.
00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:57.519
I don't know that I went through all of them, but what I did find out, some I was shaking in my boots.
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:03.519
Others I was like, I put my life on hold for what?
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:05.839
Are you kidding?
00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:07.600
You know, like a guy rejected me.
00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:10.079
I was like, I'm still breathing, I'm still living.
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:11.600
Life goes on.
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.759
And so, what started happening is I started getting curious.
00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:22.879
So even when I started to binge, and I continued to binge, I got curious.
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.639
I was like, huh.
00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:27.920
What would just happen that you think caused you to binge?
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:40.319
I was like, well, I was with a friend, but I often overeat when I'm with her, and they didn't have the term friend of me then, and I went, I need to drop her as a friend or actually have a real conversation.
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.040
Beautifully honest conversation, which I'll talk about later.
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:49.600
My whole world opened up for me.
00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:51.439
I lost 35 pounds.
00:06:51.600 --> 00:07:02.160
I just ate differently because I was no longer using food to punish myself, to pursue this elusive thing called perfection, which you and I know both don't exist.
00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.600
And I got really curious about curiosity.
00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:13.920
And that's those are four of the two of the four C's brand, courage to sparkle, are curiosity and compassion.
00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.199
I got compu compassion with myself and curious.
00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.800
And my whole life started to open up from that place.
00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.360
Now, did things magically change overnight?
00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:23.920
No.
00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:29.439
But I felt like, oh my gosh, like these are the keys to the kingdom.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:45.279
Because we live in a culture that is either very, very we were just talking about it before our call today, that in the communication space and leadership and in work cultures, right, loyalty is unprecedented.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.879
Like the bar is so low people are tripping over it, right?
00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:51.360
There's a lack of loyalty on both sides.
00:07:51.759 --> 00:08:08.399
And what I see in communication and leadership is often they're either um ghosting or vague feedback or um cancel culture, you know, work cultures, or the other is people just dribble out of their mouth.
00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.360
They have no filters, and they call it just being honest.
00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:16.480
No, you're being a jerk, and you're being mean-spirited, irresponsible, and hurtful.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.759
And there's a middle ground.
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.839
So, anyway, that started me becoming very, very curious.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.879
And I also, I know we both have a performance background, I got really fascinated.
00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:28.720
I was like, well, who are these characters?
00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:29.199
Right?
00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.639
That's what's great about being a performer, is like, who are these characters?
00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:43.200
And what I've really come to see, and it's part of the neuroscience part of my courage to sparkle brand, is that these are not our internal devils and angels.
00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:44.960
They're coping strategies.
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:51.759
Right, the Slash, Slash was there as a coping mechanism.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:03.039
The only way Slash had a toolbox that was like, I don't know, um, one of those little toy toolboxes, and that's the way Slash felt it could whip me into shape to move me forward.
00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:17.039
Um and I've I've since done a lot of studying around neuroscience, and I really believe a lot of our negative self-talk is rooted in the fight, flight, freeze part of our brain, which is part of, you know, the reptilian brain, which is part of our survival, right?
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:22.639
In cave days, you needed that reptilian brain alive and kicking 24-7.
00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:33.600
But the amygdala, bless its heart, as they say down south, you know, has sort of become very oversensitized with all the stimuli we get.
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:41.360
And the part of our brain, the curiosity, compassion, lives in our prefrontal cortex.
00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.879
Um, I love, I'm kind of a neuroplasticity nerd and a word nerd.
00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.159
But we don't need to vilify those parts.
00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:51.919
We just need to upgrade them.
00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.000
And that's where curiosity comes in.
00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:59.440
Somebody says something that's hurtful, if we can get compassionate with ourselves and go, ouch, that was an oui.
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:00.960
What did it trigger in me?
00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:02.879
What might that person be going through?
00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:11.600
We can go to that person in a lack of rather than a dysregulated emotional Ferrari way, we can go to that person and go, hey, what's going on for you?
00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.799
Hey, that's out of character for you to say that.
00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:16.159
Are you are you okay?
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:17.840
Or how can I support you?
00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:24.960
So that's be basically my four C's are uh curiosity, compassion, connection, and courage.
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:31.279
Because I feel that you can absolutely transform work cultures, leaders, and people.
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:38.159
That when we bring those four C's in, miracles happen.
00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:47.759
And I've had some of the most bizarre, you know, one of my hobbies is heartfelt existential conversations with strangers on the bus subway.
00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:54.480
I've had the most extraordinary experiences from just employing those tools, those C's.
00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:00.799
I mean, I'm just saying on the personal level, on the professional, the work that I do with companies and B2B, B2C.
00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.320
So that's how I stumbled upon the brand.
00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:05.440
Nice.
00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:06.159
I love it.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:11.600
Now, when we're talking about disruption, curiosity comes in in a big way.
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:23.679
When we're thinking about the mindset and the way we're thinking about moving through life, um talk to me a little bit about that connection, because you're taking those Cs, of course, they're all related to disruption.
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.240
Um, but connect curiosity for me.
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.960
Absolutely specifically, because I think it's a huge piece, right?
00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.000
Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:30.879
Great question.
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.080
Thank you for asking.
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:36.799
Um we can easily go into automatic pilot, same old, same old.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.360
Disruption goes, whoa, right?
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:47.279
And we're most people, no matter what, how big a game they play, most people are resistant towards change.
00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:49.039
You know, we are.
00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:57.120
Um there are people who go big a go home, like you who climbs Machu Picchu in a weekend or whatever, or probably way more than that.
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.600
But but we all have those areas where change is confronting.
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:14.240
And so disruption is very confronting for that part of us that just wants consistency, certainty, that are largely living in a very survival part of the brain.
00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:30.720
So when we can get curious to our fears, when we can assume less and ask more questions of ourselves, of the situation of others, that's when we're less reactive and we're more inquisitive.
00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:36.240
And that's why I think we fall in love with children and animals, because they're so curious.
00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:37.679
It's just who they are.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.120
You know, you you plunk down a hundred bucks for a game, the kid's more interested in the box than the game.
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.600
You know, uh it's just pets, animals, they're fascinated.
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:53.360
Um, and so that's where I think I believe and I have found that curiosity interrupts.
00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.200
It's you assume less.
00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.240
You you talk less, you listen more.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.200
You actually want to be in the other person's world.
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.080
You want to be in your own world, on your own reactions.
00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.879
That's where emotional intelligence comes in.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:09.679
Wow.
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:15.519
You know, I just did a talk, a global talk for women in finance around imposter syndrome.
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:21.279
These were very high-level successful women who still struggle with the imposter syndrome, right?
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:24.320
Putting their hat in the ring on a in a meeting.
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:29.679
So they can if they can get curious to go, why am I not saying anything right now?
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.639
Hey, that person, man splained me, woman splained me.
00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:40.879
Like, how do I get back in the game so that I don't go on undercover instead of berating ourselves?
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:44.399
So that's where I believe I think you almost can't disconnect.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.759
Yeah, you must conflate curiosity with compassion.
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.960
Because you have to be in that moment compassionate with yourself.
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.559
Hey, I'm having a reaction.
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.159
And is that what the communication piece of your work is?
00:13:58.559 --> 00:13:59.120
Absolutely.
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:00.559
Communication and leadership.
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.200
I again I don't think you can separate them out.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.480
No, I agree with that.
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.519
Yeah, and and I believe everybody is a leader.
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:13.919
I don't think it's about the number of people who report to you, I think it's the number of people you impact and the depth of the impact.
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.559
The abil yeah, the ability to impact them at all.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.080
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:25.759
Yeah, so t give me some examples of of companies that you've worked with and sort of how they've they've implemented the four C's.
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:29.279
Uh how how does that look at the ground level in the workplace?
00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:33.360
Uh yeah, thank you so much for um asking that.
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.480
Um, well, I'll I'll give you an example.
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:41.039
I um and this whole thing about being beautifully honest, which we could talk about later.
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:55.840
Um, but I had um a very interesting experience several years back where um a client, um I'm sure you've heard the term scope creep, we've all experienced it.
00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.399
And it was supposed to, it was this very large program.
00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:09.600
We were we got our pillars in place, we got our focus, and all of a sudden she started adding things like structural re-org, like change management, and I was like, that's not what I signed up for.
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:12.960
And my I felt like my stomach was having a heart attack.
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.919
And um, I thought to myself, well, if I was coaching myself, what would I do?
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:25.600
And it was it was a nice size contract, so you don't want to necessarily give that up, let's be real.
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:38.000
And I called her back, and and she was sort of prickly at best, and I I thought to myself, and instead of saying I'm really uncomfortable, I said, How do you feel our meeting went?
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:41.519
And she said, I went great, I'm really excited.
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.600
And then I just let there be pause.
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:44.480
Curious.
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:45.679
She goes, How do you feel?
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.000
I said, I feel like we're heading for a train wreck.
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.840
And she goes, Really?
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.759
I said, Yeah, we started here and now we're entering these things.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:07.200
I feel that people, the attendees, the team members will feel railroaded that maybe you're not talking about a restructuring and blindsided.
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:20.480
I said, You're not gonna look good, and they're not gonna get much value, and I'm gonna be the fall guy, and nobody is gonna win silence.
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.279
She burst into tears.
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:29.200
Yeah, and she said, I just need to make some changes, and I don't know how.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:32.639
And I said, Great, good for you.
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.000
Let's talk about that.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:40.320
She talked about the changes that she wants to make, and I said, That's not what I do.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.440
I said, I can refer that out.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:44.879
I can find somebody.
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:49.360
I said, but your your folks were so excited about this program.
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.639
It was community building and and well-being.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.720
And I said, Would you be open to a couple of different alternatives?
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.519
And she said, Sure, I said, This is a one-year program.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:00.720
We can go six months in.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.000
It was only once a month.
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:07.759
And I said, see if the culture changes, and if they if it does, you might not need that other thing.
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.480
Or if it's six months, then you can actually hire somebody separately.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:18.799
And she said, I can't believe that you would have the willingness to have this conversation.
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:20.640
Nobody's ever had that conversation with me.
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:27.680
And I said, I said, It's my integrity, it's my work, and it's your work, and it's your word.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:35.519
And what happened was people really, everybody was nice, you know?
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:37.279
Nice culture.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:46.319
And everybody was nice, but nobody was really talking, nobody was having transparent conversations, and we talked about curiosity.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.680
We did things that were very counterintuitive.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.559
Um, we had one month was just hobby day, where everybody went around and shared their hobbies and passions, and they were like fascinating.
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:02.640
People created origami structures that were nine feet high, and somebody had a pencil collection, quirky.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.880
And what happened was people became really curious about each other.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:10.480
They would send each other articles.
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:15.599
Hey, there's this pencil structure in blah, oh, I went to Bangladesh, I brought you back some pencils.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:21.440
Like, and people started to really connect, they left their niceness.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.880
They were still, um, they were no longer, you know, there's a distinction between nice and kind.
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.039
I heard this wonderful Instagram.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:34.319
If you have spinach on your tooth and and somebody doesn't tell you, then they're being nice.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.720
If they do, they're telling, they're being kind.
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:44.319
But that was one of the things that really opened up is they started to connect on a much deeper level.
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:50.000
They felt confident and competent to have the heart of conversations.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:56.160
And I did circle back with them a couple of years later, and she said, you know, we didn't need change management.
00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.960
Now, sometimes you need change management in structural reworld.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:00.559
But that was one situation.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:18.880
I recently did a really wonderful executive, fractional executive leadership program for for a company PE financed, and um all of a sudden I learned that the C-suite needed way, they were way more siloed.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.000
And how do they how do they connect with messaging?
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:33.759
On the keynote level, one of the things that I love to do is to have fun and storytelling and humor, um, but also have vulnerable conversations.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.920
And I know you use a lot of humor and a lot of storytelling field.
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.359
Our dear friend Kelly Swanson said storytelling is the Trojan horse.
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:43.039
Well, I think humor is, right?
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:43.759
What do they say?
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.200
Humor is uh comedy is tragedy plus time.
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:59.599
So one of the things is to be able to um make people laugh at things that they were usually embarrassed or ashamed about, but then how are we gonna talk about?
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:16.000
Um, and so in terms of leadership, creating a safe space to really um have the difficult conversations, but look at like, hey, we're not taking we're not taking enough inspired actions.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.920
So I hope that answered your question.
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.920
But yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.640
Well, and and its connection piece is really important.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:34.000
Is that kind of the first step to this beautiful honesty to being being able to create that culture where honesty is welcomed and kindness is the default versus nice.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:34.960
Nice.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.039
Yeah, I think I would actually think it's curiosity.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.480
Um, I don't think you can, like I guess there's all conflated.
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:52.240
For me, when you can get curious, not critical, that's my Lois is move from move from criticism to curiosity instead of what's wrong, what's possible.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:00.000
I think when you can get curious, the first step is are you as a leader fostering curiosity?
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:15.680
Not my my dear friend Ken Kilday, who I adore, he says core values are not what's on the wall, it's what's actualized in the halls, in the metaphoric halls, in the hybrid hall, which it's much harder with remote.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:20.960
But it's it's really about as a leader, are you fostering curiosity?
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:28.160
I know you get this probably a lot, Ann, but when I'm brought in for keynotes, they're like, we want people to participate more, to give more input.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:34.480
People don't, and I said, all the time, and I said, Do you create a structure for people to participate?
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.279
Because, oh well, we have the metaphoric suggestion box.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.279
I said, No, but have you actually implemented it?
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.759
Have you brought it down to your weekly huddles?
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:43.359
And they're like, no.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.319
And I said, So what is my messaging gonna do?
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:52.880
I said, I can give you suggestions on how to actually create a culture, and I can embed that into the keynote.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:59.759
But in terms, how are you as a leader, as a culture, really making it about?
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.440
Participation and input.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:10.160
So I think it's about getting curious and really fostering curiosity as a leader and a team.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.960
Um and I think part of that is also compassion, what people might be going through.
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:21.920
Um fostering well-being, you know, people knowing how to dysregulate.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.799
When they're dysregulated, how to get centered.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.839
And and I I don't think tr you know, people use the word trigger like big T, little T trauma, big T, little whatever.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.599
Trigger is just a disproportionate response to a stimulus.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.000
Right.
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:45.359
It's even if it's something that feels dangerous, your reaction and anxiety is the ultimate trickster, right?
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.200
You gotta go slow to go fast.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.200
Power of the pause.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:50.880
How are you doing that as a culture?
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:57.279
If you're in a culture of VUCA, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity, that's gonna make it harder.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:04.160
And then how out of that do you create the connection with each other and your leaders and your teams and your fellow C-suite?
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:09.119
And then how are you fostering inspired action?
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:11.519
You know what that means, inspired action?
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:12.880
I've heard that term so many times.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:13.839
I know, I know.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:15.440
It's kind of a buzzword.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.640
Um, I, you know, I'm I'm kind of I'm a stickler about language.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:24.160
I used to think, oh, stickler is such a bad word, but no, I am.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:34.480
Um I feel sometimes the term take risks, it feels a little bit like there might not be any guardrails to take risks, because there are risks that are wonderful.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:34.799
Right.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:40.160
You take them all the time, I take them all the time, but there are risks that like jump in the net will appear.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.920
Oh wow, I depend in my bank account and I have a broken neck, you know.
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.200
Like so I like inspired action.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:59.119
Um, I I feel that we have a very strong intuition if we foster it, if we learn to trust ourselves and get support to trust ourselves and to know when we can't trust ourselves.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:07.519
So I feel that, I don't know, I'm sure you've had this, Anne, a million times that the divine beckons us, right?
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:13.039
We have ideas, we have instincts, we and they keep coming back.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:20.000
And you know, are the parts of us that are scared, that are frozen, go, oh no, what if they don't like it?
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:34.160
But when we keep having those inspired ideas, to take the risk, to get support and go, hey, I have this idea, I don't know if it has any legs, but what are your thoughts about it?
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.519
To be able to really have a quorum or a culture.
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:49.440
And I know that you know I'm a hopeless optimist and a hopeful romantic, so I know I'm talking about, you know, in very high-level optimistic terms, but it can be it could be nurtured in small and meaningful ways to foster.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:58.000
I mean, I was doing this um all-day workshop for a global PR firm, and it was so fascinating to me.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.119
We talked about how they structure their huddles.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.400
And they were like, oh, we start with victories and celebrations.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:06.160
And I said, and then what happens?
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:16.079
And she goes, and then it's kind of the senior level people chime in, but the new newbies, the up-and-comings, the mid-management that we really want to develop, it's like the wall of silence.
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.400
I said, Why do you think that is?
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.480
What do you think is happening?
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:25.359
And somebody said, Oh my gosh, we're starting the meetings with the bars so high.
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.400
They don't feel like they're allowed.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.599
There's no space for the SEM have a little victory.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.839
Like that's why there's a little C and a big C.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.440
So that's why I called inspired action.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.319
And they said, let's re-reverse engineer the meetings.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:47.119
Let's talk about what stuff went down that wasn't so great, and ask everybody to jump in on what the solution totally changed it.
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.759
All of a sudden they started coming forth.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:26:02.000
So it's about really looking at how are how are your team members and you being guided of what you see are the next steps.
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:09.839
And how do you make the bar so low, and I mean that positively, that all ideas are truly welcome.
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.200
So it's that safe aspect.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.079
I call it safe and stretch.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:21.039
How do you create an environment that's both safe with a bias towards stretching?
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:25.839
You know, I can I can I share this story that I heard about that, which I love.
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:37.039
So I'm um one of my people on my Google, and I spoke to this woman at a party at networking, and I said, you know, talk about the safe and stretch, and we're all ideas welcome.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.119
She goes, Well, I had the privilege of working with Jim Henson of the Muppets.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.119
Oh for 25 years, for years.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:51.920
And we laugh on the weekly huddles because it's like an ideation session, and everybody's welcome, not just the writers, everybody.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:57.039
And if you had a great idea, he says, Ha, tell me more.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.960
The late great Jim Henson.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:04.000
If you had a stinker of an idea, he would take a pencil and go, Fascinating.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.480
Let me put a let's put a pin in that.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.759
And that knew that it was a stinker of an idea that he wasn't gonna use.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:15.359
But what happened is they all started laughing and they started having competitions of who had more, huh?
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:16.880
They said, You had more pencils.
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.160
He said, Yeah, but I had a tell me more six months ago.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:21.839
And it became this game.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.839
He normalized not taking people's suggestions.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:27.359
Brilliant.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:33.440
And he didn't talk about it, there weren't pillars on the wall, and this and that, you know, he just implemented it as a leader.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:41.839
And and I'm all about having core vision and and mission statements, so don't get me wrong, and and you know, having the core values, but he lived it.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.400
He lived it.
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:43.039
Yeah, right.
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.640
Without without it ha happening when the rubber meets the road, it doesn't matter.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:47.680
Exactly.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.079
It wasn't just rhetoric, it was real life.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:51.039
Exactly.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:51.920
Exactly.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:53.759
So this beautiful honesty.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.599
Is there a is there a structure behind that?
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.279
Is there something that, you know, how do we get the courage to do that too?
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:00.480
Tell us a little bit about that.
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:01.519
Absolutely.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:11.839
Yeah, and I come from debilitating people pleasing, like debilitating, to sometimes being a little bit of an emotional Ferrari.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.400
We say and do things that we later regret.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:15.920
Are you feeling me in?
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.400
Been there, done that, got the chocolate stains on the t-shirt to prove it.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:30.559
So, um, no, I I'm always I love structure and playfulness, but all you know, I I like structure but also fluidity.
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:35.279
The first step is when you have an oui, right?
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:42.160
A trigger, whatever you want to call it, I think it's so important to do some real curiosity.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.720
Get really curious.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.000
And sometimes you can't do that because you're triggered.
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.400
So sometimes you have to go, okay, how do I how do I get regulated?
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.200
There's a myriad of tools.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:03.519
My my dear friend Elizabeth Browning, she talks about an imaginary monologue.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:11.680
Just say out loud in privacy of your own home what you'd want to say to that person, totally unmanicured, totally not PC at all.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:13.279
Just get it out.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.839
Yeah.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.319
Um, riff on an email, save as draft.
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:19.279
Yeah, right.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.279
Don't put an address in it until you're right.
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.279
Don't put an address, um, some kind of release.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:27.279
Um, talk to a good friend.
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.960
You know, um say, I just need to empty my basket.
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.680
Alison Armstrong uses that phrase.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:40.240
Um then after you feel seen and heard and have a voice, then there's some work to do.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:45.200
What is because what triggers one person doesn't trigger another person.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.680
What's your spiritual classroom?
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.400
Wow, I feel not heard.
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.400
That's one of my like for me, I don't know what your spiritual classroom is.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.039
We have more than one, but mine is always being told as a child.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.960
Um, and even now, not always, but often like I'm too sensitive.
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:04.720
I overthink things.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.599
And the truth is sometimes I do, but that's also I have great critical thinking.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.880
It's one of my superpowers.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.200
It's what what I do for a living, right?
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:17.680
So if I hit a trigger, what would be one of your classrooms, Anne?
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.200
Truth in advertising.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.039
Uh quiet down.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:22.319
Don't take up so much space.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:23.839
Don't take up okay.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.319
Too much! Yes! Too much.
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:28.160
Yep.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.759
So let's say, yeah, you're too much, which is the other side of you're not enough, right?
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:34.319
Yep.
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.160
So I'm too much, so I get to go, okay, that's my classroom.
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.519
And I like working with positive intelligent model of the saboteurs.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:47.599
Okay, my three top are a hyperachiever, hyper vigilant, and stickler.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.839
What is the belief that I'm carrying?
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.079
I'm too much, I'm not enough.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:55.279
I have this thing called seven sassy words that will change your life.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:56.559
Does it serve me to believe that?
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.759
Of course it does not.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.359
What does it serve me to believe?
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:04.880
It believes that some people are gonna vibe with me and some people aren't.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:07.680
I'm not too much, I'm not not enough.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:13.759
That person is just not vibing with me, or that person's having a hard day.
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.240
Okay, that's the curiosity, compassion, the self-regulation.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:25.359
Um, what and then then I need to look at what do I want out of this conversation?
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:26.240
Yes.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.440
What do I want?
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:35.279
If it's to be right, to be heard, buzzer, you're not gonna get that, right?
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:37.359
Or it's it's not gonna bring the results.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:46.400
If it is to feel like I'm owning my voice, to be in the other person's world, so at first it is all about you.
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.599
What do I need, what do I want out of this outcome that supports my growth?
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:59.519
Um, and then I go into the other person's world, getting curious about the wiring of that person.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.839
What I know about that person.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:15.599
And if you don't know anything about that person, everybody needs to feel, everybody needs to feel like they matter, they're important, they're cared about, and that they were doing their best.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:16.799
That's the catch-all.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:24.400
If you don't know squat about the person, you can, and that's when you create the bridge.
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.359
And then there's always a language.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:32.880
Um, my three catchphrases are I'm curious, I'm confused, or I'm fascinated.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.960
And I often, and I have a whole framework.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:47.440
I take people, I'm launching a pilot next month, I take people through a whole framework because language and the energy with which you share language is a game changer.
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.640
And I often say to people, hey, I've created this thing called Beautifully Honest.
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.680
I do it imperfectly and ongoingly.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.960
Would you be open to me being beautifully honest with you?
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:01.119
And most people go, What is that?
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.559
I go, I'm gonna tell you.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:12.400
And I go, and I'm not gonna, I'm gonna have hiccups, I might be awkward, and um, and and sometimes I say, so how does it feel to have me say something?
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:16.640
I'm scared, I'm not gonna attack you, you know, and that calms people down.
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:20.000
And and there's different ways you gotta iterate in a business setting, right?
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:20.799
Obviously.
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:37.200
And I say, so I'm really curious when you said this to me on that day, um, what I took it to mean was, and I'm curious, or sometimes I'll say, What were you trying to tell me?
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:39.599
Or what was going on for you?
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:41.519
And some people go, I don't even remember saying that.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.039
Oh my god, I was having such a hard day.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.799
Oh my god, we had to put my dog down.
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.160
Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:47.519
They go, no, no, no, no.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:57.759
I said, and there's I was a licensed medical massage therapist in a prior career, and it's a medical known fact that bones that break that heal properly become stronger than bones that were never broken.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:02.960
So I said, I'm not here to just level set our relationship, I'm here to transform it.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:10.639
And they go, wow, I said, so I tell them, bones that break, let's let's use this to actually have even a stronger connection.
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.719
And people really appreciate that.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:13.199
Yeah.
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:21.599
I think when you get into the habit of honesty, yeah, we all understand that we're doing it with compassion, like you said, tact and respect and yeah, all of that.
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:28.719
And then and then I'll say, and and then we'll talk about what happened, and I'll mirror back, wow, you felt this way.
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.039
What could maybe I be doing or saying differently?
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:34.480
Like, what's my role?
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:41.519
And um, a lot of times people have said, I you know, you probably get this a lot, Ann, too.
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:53.599
I just you have this just this big energy, like it's just like I'm so inspired by it, but sometimes it's I feel less than, and I go, wow, thank you for sharing that.
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:54.639
Do you do you get that?
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:56.800
I mean, I'm sure you have your own version.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:58.800
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:04.000
Yeah, no, I I I haven't had that particular instance, but yeah.
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:06.559
Yeah, I know you're ventriloquism here, right?
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.519
And the cool part is when we come at the conversation from a solution focus versus an accusation focus.
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.480
Again, curiosity versus animosity is the way I say it.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:17.119
I love it.
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.320
Yeah, it gets there.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:18.880
I love that.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:19.360
I love it.
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:20.880
That's uh that's an anism.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:24.159
But yeah.
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.119
Loisbarth.com is your website.
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:31.199
People can find information on your coaching, on your keynote speaking, on everything.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:34.639
Is there anywhere else people can uh find more about you?
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:35.280
YouTube.
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:36.400
Okay.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:43.280
Um, and uh yeah, I would say YouTube and my website, LoisBarth.com.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.639
And I'd love to keep in touch.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:52.000
And thank you so much for inviting me and engaging in this really rich, juicy, sparkle conversation.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:53.760
Thank you so much.
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.719
And I will put all of those links in the show notes for you all.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.920
Thank you so much for joining us on Dancing in the Discomfort Zone podcast.
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:01.199
We'll see you next week.
00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:04.559
Welcome to dancing in the discomfort zone.
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:14.960
This week with more to get rid of go-getters who have greater meaning, fulfillment, and impact in their lives.
00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:20.960
And to be able to clarify their goals, foster well-being, and be more effective leaders.
00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:32.880
This week has been the makeover life coach for Zelf magazine, fitness magazine, and blog, which today three million people have registered for.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:46.240
She's been quoted and published in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Fantasy Company, and Zelf Magazine, and her speaking clients include Capital One Bank, L'Oreal, Women in Banking, and Investgo, just to name a few.
00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:50.799
And today we're going to be talking about disruption and the mindset.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.960
And I'm super excited to welcome Lois Barth to the show.
00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.039
Lois, thank you for being with us today.
00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:58.640
Thank you so much, Anne.
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.359
I'm so excited to be here and talk about disruption.
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:09.760
I live in New York City, across the street from the noisiest, biggest hospital, and I help people have to um learn how to self-regulate and not take stress in.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.079
So the irony was not lost on me.
00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:16.719
So we're just gonna disrupt if we hear little beeps or sirens, my background music.
00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:18.239
We're gonna go back to New York City.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:22.719
In New York City, and how can we shift that thought right now we're having?
00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:24.560
So Anne, it's so great to be here.
00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:26.000
Thank you so much for inviting me.
00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.640
Yeah, no, it's great to have you here and uh back from my old stomping grounds in New York there.
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:32.640
Yeah, come back and visit.
00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:34.079
Yeah, I I'd love to.
00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:43.840
So talk to me a little bit about where how you got to this point of specializing in helping people think differently about change and disruption and all that stuff.
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:44.799
How did you get here?
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:46.239
Yeah, thank you so much, Ann.
00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.640
And I love your brand so much because disruption is such an important element.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:52.400
I mean, it's here to stay, right?
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:58.239
And it's how are we going to navigate it and not I I speak a lot about resiliency.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.640
It's not how to bounce back, how to bound forward.
00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:10.479
How to use disruption to actually move yourself forward, to reinvent who you are, for lack of a better catchphrase, but also how you want to show up.
00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:21.039
So one of my loisisms, which stands for lessons, opportunities, insights and solutions, say that five times fast, is life is always talking, make sure you're listening.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.400
And for me, you know, it's just that's what it is.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:30.800
If we just stay aware and awake and compassionate, then wow, we can just learn and grow so much.
00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.759
So I had a horrific eating disorder in my teens.
00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:47.360
Between 15 and 17, I went from 120 pounds feeling fat, ha, to 91 pounds to 180 pounds in less than two years.
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:48.240
Yeah, I know.
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.159
That's what the look on the face of most people who saw me four years later.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:56.080
They didn't recognize me, but worse, I didn't recognize myself.
00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:08.080
And what happened was what I realized is nothing, and and I know we both share this as being Sparkle Sisters, Anne, is that when you have so much, you put the joie in your de Viv, right?
00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.439
You've got to, you were blessed, we were blessed with incredible life force energies.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.280
It's just who it's just our, you know, divine DNA, right?
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:21.840
And nothing is worse than uh when a belly full of passion and a head full of negative self-talk.
00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:27.599
And my critics, for some those of you who are astrology people, I have like four planets in Virgo.
00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:33.199
I come from parents who were incredibly loving but also brutally hard on themselves.
00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.599
So um that was me.
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.960
And I was relentless with myself.
00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:40.479
Relentless.
00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:45.680
And I was, as I live now in New York City, I was.
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.599
It's funny how life shows up.
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:55.919
I was locking the door, and my my character, my head critic, who I call Slash, he's sort of like Chucky from those movies.
00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:08.639
Here I am to ruin your day! You know, so that was him or her or it or non-binary, and I was locking my door um to just do something.
00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.080
And Slash said, You're never gonna lose the weight.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.240
You're gonna be 180 pounds for the rest of your life.
00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:27.920
And somebody else entered, some other part of me, which was I call uh my lovey, my loving, open voice of intuition.
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.160
She calls herself sweetheart, and just a very quiet voice.
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:33.920
She's just said, yo, sweetheart.
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.079
She's from Brooklyn, I'm from Long Island.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:40.879
And she said, Yo, lovey, yo, low.
00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:48.720
How would you live your life if you could never lose or gain another mic drop?
00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:49.759
Mic drop.
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:54.639
And like, you know, automatic pilot, but not the bad one that causes you to do scroll.
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.920
But like it was like this spiritual awakening.
00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:10.160
I went back into my apartment, I took out the scale, and we have in our hallway one man's trash is another person's cool stuff pile, and I wrote, This scale works perfectly, it just no longer works for me.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:19.680
And I went back and I started to automatic writing, free associate, a hundred things I'm waiting to do until I get thin.
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:26.240
And I purposely, because I love language, I know we both share that, I called it my weightless W-E-I-G-H-T.
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:26.879
Huh?
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:32.079
And I had things on it like buy a bathing suit.
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:36.480
That's not black, and in New York, that's like taboo because everybody wears black in New York.
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:41.439
Wear the bathing suit, flirt with guys even if you don't think you're in their league.
00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:43.040
What else?
00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.079
Audition for shows even if you don't feel you're good enough.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:48.720
And I made a commitment that I would go through that list.
00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.079
It was about a hundred.
00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:57.519
I don't know that I went through all of them, but what I did find out, some I was shaking in my boots.
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:03.519
Others I was like, I put my life on hold for what?
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:05.839
Are you kidding?
00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:07.600
You know, like a guy rejected me.
00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:10.079
I was like, I'm still breathing, I'm still living.
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:11.600
Life goes on.
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.759
And so, what started happening is I started getting curious.
00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:22.879
So even when I started to binge, and I continued to binge, I got curious.
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.639
I was like, huh.
00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:27.920
What would just happen that you think caused you to binge?
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:40.319
I was like, well, I was with a friend, but I often overeat when I'm with her, and they didn't have the term friend of me then, and I went, I need to drop her as a friend or actually have a real conversation.
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.040
Beautifully honest conversation, which I'll talk about later.
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:49.600
My whole world opened up for me.
00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:51.439
I lost 35 pounds.
00:06:51.600 --> 00:07:02.160
I just ate differently because I was no longer using food to punish myself, to pursue this elusive thing called perfection, which you and I know both don't exist.
00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.600
And I got really curious about curiosity.
00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:13.920
And that's those are four of the two of the four C's brand, courage to sparkle, are curiosity and compassion.
00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.199
I got compu compassion with myself and curious.
00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.800
And my whole life started to open up from that place.
00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.360
Now, did things magically change overnight?
00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:23.920
No.
00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:29.439
But I felt like, oh my gosh, like these are the keys to the kingdom.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:45.279
Because we live in a culture that is either very, very we were just talking about it before our call today, that in the communication space and leadership and in work cultures, right, loyalty is unprecedented.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.879
Like the bar is so low people are tripping over it, right?
00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:51.360
There's a lack of loyalty on both sides.
00:07:51.759 --> 00:08:08.399
And what I see in communication and leadership is often they're either um ghosting or vague feedback or um cancel culture, you know, work cultures, or the other is people just dribble out of their mouth.
00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.360
They have no filters, and they call it just being honest.
00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:16.480
No, you're being a jerk, and you're being mean-spirited, irresponsible, and hurtful.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.759
And there's a middle ground.
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.839
So, anyway, that started me becoming very, very curious.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.879
And I also, I know we both have a performance background, I got really fascinated.
00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:28.720
I was like, well, who are these characters?
00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:29.199
Right?
00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.639
That's what's great about being a performer, is like, who are these characters?
00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:43.200
And what I've really come to see, and it's part of the neuroscience part of my courage to sparkle brand, is that these are not our internal devils and angels.
00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:44.960
They're coping strategies.
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:51.759
Right, the Slash, Slash was there as a coping mechanism.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:03.039
The only way Slash had a toolbox that was like, I don't know, um, one of those little toy toolboxes, and that's the way Slash felt it could whip me into shape to move me forward.
00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:17.039
Um and I've I've since done a lot of studying around neuroscience, and I really believe a lot of our negative self-talk is rooted in the fight, flight, freeze part of our brain, which is part of, you know, the reptilian brain, which is part of our survival, right?
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:22.639
In cave days, you needed that reptilian brain alive and kicking 24-7.
00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:33.600
But the amygdala, bless its heart, as they say down south, you know, has sort of become very oversensitized with all the stimuli we get.
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:41.360
And the part of our brain, the curiosity, compassion, lives in our prefrontal cortex.
00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.879
Um, I love, I'm kind of a neuroplasticity nerd and a word nerd.
00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.159
But we don't need to vilify those parts.
00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:51.919
We just need to upgrade them.
00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.000
And that's where curiosity comes in.
00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:59.440
Somebody says something that's hurtful, if we can get compassionate with ourselves and go, ouch, that was an oui.
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:00.960
What did it trigger in me?
00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:02.879
What might that person be going through?
00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:11.600
We can go to that person in a lack of rather than a dysregulated emotional Ferrari way, we can go to that person and go, hey, what's going on for you?
00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.799
Hey, that's out of character for you to say that.
00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:16.159
Are you are you okay?
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:17.840
Or how can I support you?
00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:24.960
So that's be basically my four C's are uh curiosity, compassion, connection, and courage.
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:31.279
Because I feel that you can absolutely transform work cultures, leaders, and people.
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:38.159
That when we bring those four C's in, miracles happen.
00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:47.759
And I've had some of the most bizarre, you know, one of my hobbies is heartfelt existential conversations with strangers on the bus subway.
00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:54.480
I've had the most extraordinary experiences from just employing those tools, those C's.
00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:00.799
I mean, I'm just saying on the personal level, on the professional, the work that I do with companies and B2B, B2C.
00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.320
So that's how I stumbled upon the brand.
00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:05.440
Nice.
00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:06.159
I love it.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:11.600
Now, when we're talking about disruption, curiosity comes in in a big way.
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:23.679
When we're thinking about the mindset and the way we're thinking about moving through life, um talk to me a little bit about that connection, because you're taking those Cs, of course, they're all related to disruption.
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.240
Um, but connect curiosity for me.
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.960
Absolutely specifically, because I think it's a huge piece, right?
00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.000
Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:30.879
Great question.
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.080
Thank you for asking.
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:36.799
Um we can easily go into automatic pilot, same old, same old.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.360
Disruption goes, whoa, right?
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:47.279
And we're most people, no matter what, how big a game they play, most people are resistant towards change.
00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:49.039
You know, we are.
00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:57.120
Um there are people who go big a go home, like you who climbs Machu Picchu in a weekend or whatever, or probably way more than that.
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.600
But but we all have those areas where change is confronting.
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:14.240
And so disruption is very confronting for that part of us that just wants consistency, certainty, that are largely living in a very survival part of the brain.
00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:30.720
So when we can get curious to our fears, when we can assume less and ask more questions of ourselves, of the situation of others, that's when we're less reactive and we're more inquisitive.
00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:36.240
And that's why I think we fall in love with children and animals, because they're so curious.
00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:37.679
It's just who they are.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.120
You know, you you plunk down a hundred bucks for a game, the kid's more interested in the box than the game.
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.600
You know, uh it's just pets, animals, they're fascinated.
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:53.360
Um, and so that's where I think I believe and I have found that curiosity interrupts.
00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.200
It's you assume less.
00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.240
You you talk less, you listen more.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.200
You actually want to be in the other person's world.
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.080
You want to be in your own world, on your own reactions.
00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.879
That's where emotional intelligence comes in.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:09.679
Wow.
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:15.519
You know, I just did a talk, a global talk for women in finance around imposter syndrome.
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:21.279
These were very high-level successful women who still struggle with the imposter syndrome, right?
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:24.320
Putting their hat in the ring on a in a meeting.
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:29.679
So they can if they can get curious to go, why am I not saying anything right now?
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.639
Hey, that person, man splained me, woman splained me.
00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:40.879
Like, how do I get back in the game so that I don't go on undercover instead of berating ourselves?
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:44.399
So that's where I believe I think you almost can't disconnect.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.759
Yeah, you must conflate curiosity with compassion.
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.960
Because you have to be in that moment compassionate with yourself.
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.559
Hey, I'm having a reaction.
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.159
And is that what the communication piece of your work is?
00:13:58.559 --> 00:13:59.120
Absolutely.
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:00.559
Communication and leadership.
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.200
I again I don't think you can separate them out.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.480
No, I agree with that.
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.519
Yeah, and and I believe everybody is a leader.
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:13.919
I don't think it's about the number of people who report to you, I think it's the number of people you impact and the depth of the impact.
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.559
The abil yeah, the ability to impact them at all.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.080
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:25.759
Yeah, so t give me some examples of of companies that you've worked with and sort of how they've they've implemented the four C's.
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:29.279
Uh how how does that look at the ground level in the workplace?
00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:33.360
Uh yeah, thank you so much for um asking that.
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.480
Um, well, I'll I'll give you an example.
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:41.039
I um and this whole thing about being beautifully honest, which we could talk about later.
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:55.840
Um, but I had um a very interesting experience several years back where um a client, um I'm sure you've heard the term scope creep, we've all experienced it.
00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.399
And it was supposed to, it was this very large program.
00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:09.600
We were we got our pillars in place, we got our focus, and all of a sudden she started adding things like structural re-org, like change management, and I was like, that's not what I signed up for.
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:12.960
And my I felt like my stomach was having a heart attack.
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.919
And um, I thought to myself, well, if I was coaching myself, what would I do?
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:25.600
And it was it was a nice size contract, so you don't want to necessarily give that up, let's be real.
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:38.000
And I called her back, and and she was sort of prickly at best, and I I thought to myself, and instead of saying I'm really uncomfortable, I said, How do you feel our meeting went?
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:41.519
And she said, I went great, I'm really excited.
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.600
And then I just let there be pause.
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:44.480
Curious.
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:45.679
She goes, How do you feel?
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.000
I said, I feel like we're heading for a train wreck.
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.840
And she goes, Really?
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.759
I said, Yeah, we started here and now we're entering these things.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:07.200
I feel that people, the attendees, the team members will feel railroaded that maybe you're not talking about a restructuring and blindsided.
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:20.480
I said, You're not gonna look good, and they're not gonna get much value, and I'm gonna be the fall guy, and nobody is gonna win silence.
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.279
She burst into tears.
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:29.200
Yeah, and she said, I just need to make some changes, and I don't know how.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:32.639
And I said, Great, good for you.
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.000
Let's talk about that.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:40.320
She talked about the changes that she wants to make, and I said, That's not what I do.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.440
I said, I can refer that out.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:44.879
I can find somebody.
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:49.360
I said, but your your folks were so excited about this program.
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.639
It was community building and and well-being.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.720
And I said, Would you be open to a couple of different alternatives?
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.519
And she said, Sure, I said, This is a one-year program.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:00.720
We can go six months in.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.000
It was only once a month.
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:07.759
And I said, see if the culture changes, and if they if it does, you might not need that other thing.
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.480
Or if it's six months, then you can actually hire somebody separately.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:18.799
And she said, I can't believe that you would have the willingness to have this conversation.
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:20.640
Nobody's ever had that conversation with me.
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:27.680
And I said, I said, It's my integrity, it's my work, and it's your work, and it's your word.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:35.519
And what happened was people really, everybody was nice, you know?
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:37.279
Nice culture.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:46.319
And everybody was nice, but nobody was really talking, nobody was having transparent conversations, and we talked about curiosity.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.680
We did things that were very counterintuitive.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.559
Um, we had one month was just hobby day, where everybody went around and shared their hobbies and passions, and they were like fascinating.
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:02.640
People created origami structures that were nine feet high, and somebody had a pencil collection, quirky.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.880
And what happened was people became really curious about each other.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:10.480
They would send each other articles.
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:15.599
Hey, there's this pencil structure in blah, oh, I went to Bangladesh, I brought you back some pencils.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:21.440
Like, and people started to really connect, they left their niceness.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.880
They were still, um, they were no longer, you know, there's a distinction between nice and kind.
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.039
I heard this wonderful Instagram.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:34.319
If you have spinach on your tooth and and somebody doesn't tell you, then they're being nice.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.720
If they do, they're telling, they're being kind.
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:44.319
But that was one of the things that really opened up is they started to connect on a much deeper level.
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:50.000
They felt confident and competent to have the heart of conversations.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:56.160
And I did circle back with them a couple of years later, and she said, you know, we didn't need change management.
00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.960
Now, sometimes you need change management in structural reworld.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:00.559
But that was one situation.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:18.880
I recently did a really wonderful executive, fractional executive leadership program for for a company PE financed, and um all of a sudden I learned that the C-suite needed way, they were way more siloed.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.000
And how do they how do they connect with messaging?
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:33.759
On the keynote level, one of the things that I love to do is to have fun and storytelling and humor, um, but also have vulnerable conversations.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.920
And I know you use a lot of humor and a lot of storytelling field.
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.359
Our dear friend Kelly Swanson said storytelling is the Trojan horse.
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:43.039
Well, I think humor is, right?
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:43.759
What do they say?
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.200
Humor is uh comedy is tragedy plus time.
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:59.599
So one of the things is to be able to um make people laugh at things that they were usually embarrassed or ashamed about, but then how are we gonna talk about?
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:16.000
Um, and so in terms of leadership, creating a safe space to really um have the difficult conversations, but look at like, hey, we're not taking we're not taking enough inspired actions.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.920
So I hope that answered your question.
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.920
But yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.640
Well, and and its connection piece is really important.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:34.000
Is that kind of the first step to this beautiful honesty to being being able to create that culture where honesty is welcomed and kindness is the default versus nice.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:34.960
Nice.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.039
Yeah, I think I would actually think it's curiosity.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.480
Um, I don't think you can, like I guess there's all conflated.
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:52.240
For me, when you can get curious, not critical, that's my Lois is move from move from criticism to curiosity instead of what's wrong, what's possible.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:00.000
I think when you can get curious, the first step is are you as a leader fostering curiosity?
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:15.680
Not my my dear friend Ken Kilday, who I adore, he says core values are not what's on the wall, it's what's actualized in the halls, in the metaphoric halls, in the hybrid hall, which it's much harder with remote.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:20.960
But it's it's really about as a leader, are you fostering curiosity?
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:28.160
I know you get this probably a lot, Ann, but when I'm brought in for keynotes, they're like, we want people to participate more, to give more input.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:34.480
People don't, and I said, all the time, and I said, Do you create a structure for people to participate?
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.279
Because, oh well, we have the metaphoric suggestion box.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.279
I said, No, but have you actually implemented it?
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.759
Have you brought it down to your weekly huddles?
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:43.359
And they're like, no.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.319
And I said, So what is my messaging gonna do?
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:52.880
I said, I can give you suggestions on how to actually create a culture, and I can embed that into the keynote.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:59.759
But in terms, how are you as a leader, as a culture, really making it about?
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.440
Participation and input.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:10.160
So I think it's about getting curious and really fostering curiosity as a leader and a team.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.960
Um and I think part of that is also compassion, what people might be going through.
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:21.920
Um fostering well-being, you know, people knowing how to dysregulate.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.799
When they're dysregulated, how to get centered.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.839
And and I I don't think tr you know, people use the word trigger like big T, little T trauma, big T, little whatever.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.599
Trigger is just a disproportionate response to a stimulus.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.000
Right.
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:45.359
It's even if it's something that feels dangerous, your reaction and anxiety is the ultimate trickster, right?
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.200
You gotta go slow to go fast.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.200
Power of the pause.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:50.880
How are you doing that as a culture?
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:57.279
If you're in a culture of VUCA, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity, that's gonna make it harder.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:04.160
And then how out of that do you create the connection with each other and your leaders and your teams and your fellow C-suite?
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:09.119
And then how are you fostering inspired action?
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:11.519
You know what that means, inspired action?
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:12.880
I've heard that term so many times.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:13.839
I know, I know.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:15.440
It's kind of a buzzword.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.640
Um, I, you know, I'm I'm kind of I'm a stickler about language.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:24.160
I used to think, oh, stickler is such a bad word, but no, I am.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:34.480
Um I feel sometimes the term take risks, it feels a little bit like there might not be any guardrails to take risks, because there are risks that are wonderful.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:34.799
Right.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:40.160
You take them all the time, I take them all the time, but there are risks that like jump in the net will appear.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.920
Oh wow, I depend in my bank account and I have a broken neck, you know.
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.200
Like so I like inspired action.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:59.119
Um, I I feel that we have a very strong intuition if we foster it, if we learn to trust ourselves and get support to trust ourselves and to know when we can't trust ourselves.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:07.519
So I feel that, I don't know, I'm sure you've had this, Anne, a million times that the divine beckons us, right?
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:13.039
We have ideas, we have instincts, we and they keep coming back.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:20.000
And you know, are the parts of us that are scared, that are frozen, go, oh no, what if they don't like it?
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:34.160
But when we keep having those inspired ideas, to take the risk, to get support and go, hey, I have this idea, I don't know if it has any legs, but what are your thoughts about it?
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.519
To be able to really have a quorum or a culture.
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:49.440
And I know that you know I'm a hopeless optimist and a hopeful romantic, so I know I'm talking about, you know, in very high-level optimistic terms, but it can be it could be nurtured in small and meaningful ways to foster.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:58.000
I mean, I was doing this um all-day workshop for a global PR firm, and it was so fascinating to me.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.119
We talked about how they structure their huddles.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.400
And they were like, oh, we start with victories and celebrations.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:06.160
And I said, and then what happens?
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:16.079
And she goes, and then it's kind of the senior level people chime in, but the new newbies, the up-and-comings, the mid-management that we really want to develop, it's like the wall of silence.
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.400
I said, Why do you think that is?
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.480
What do you think is happening?
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:25.359
And somebody said, Oh my gosh, we're starting the meetings with the bars so high.
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.400
They don't feel like they're allowed.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.599
There's no space for the SEM have a little victory.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.839
Like that's why there's a little C and a big C.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.440
So that's why I called inspired action.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.319
And they said, let's re-reverse engineer the meetings.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:47.119
Let's talk about what stuff went down that wasn't so great, and ask everybody to jump in on what the solution totally changed it.
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.759
All of a sudden they started coming forth.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:26:02.000
So it's about really looking at how are how are your team members and you being guided of what you see are the next steps.
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:09.839
And how do you make the bar so low, and I mean that positively, that all ideas are truly welcome.
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.200
So it's that safe aspect.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.079
I call it safe and stretch.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:21.039
How do you create an environment that's both safe with a bias towards stretching?
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:25.839
You know, I can I can I share this story that I heard about that, which I love.
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:37.039
So I'm um one of my people on my Google, and I spoke to this woman at a party at networking, and I said, you know, talk about the safe and stretch, and we're all ideas welcome.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.119
She goes, Well, I had the privilege of working with Jim Henson of the Muppets.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.119
Oh for 25 years, for years.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:51.920
And we laugh on the weekly huddles because it's like an ideation session, and everybody's welcome, not just the writers, everybody.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:57.039
And if you had a great idea, he says, Ha, tell me more.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.960
The late great Jim Henson.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:04.000
If you had a stinker of an idea, he would take a pencil and go, Fascinating.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.480
Let me put a let's put a pin in that.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.759
And that knew that it was a stinker of an idea that he wasn't gonna use.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:15.359
But what happened is they all started laughing and they started having competitions of who had more, huh?
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:16.880
They said, You had more pencils.
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.160
He said, Yeah, but I had a tell me more six months ago.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:21.839
And it became this game.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.839
He normalized not taking people's suggestions.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:27.359
Brilliant.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:33.440
And he didn't talk about it, there weren't pillars on the wall, and this and that, you know, he just implemented it as a leader.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:41.839
And and I'm all about having core vision and and mission statements, so don't get me wrong, and and you know, having the core values, but he lived it.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.400
He lived it.
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:43.039
Yeah, right.
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.640
Without without it ha happening when the rubber meets the road, it doesn't matter.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:47.680
Exactly.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.079
It wasn't just rhetoric, it was real life.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:51.039
Exactly.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:51.920
Exactly.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:53.759
So this beautiful honesty.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.599
Is there a is there a structure behind that?
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.279
Is there something that, you know, how do we get the courage to do that too?
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:00.480
Tell us a little bit about that.
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:01.519
Absolutely.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:11.839
Yeah, and I come from debilitating people pleasing, like debilitating, to sometimes being a little bit of an emotional Ferrari.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.400
We say and do things that we later regret.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:15.920
Are you feeling me in?
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.400
Been there, done that, got the chocolate stains on the t-shirt to prove it.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:30.559
So, um, no, I I'm always I love structure and playfulness, but all you know, I I like structure but also fluidity.
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:35.279
The first step is when you have an oui, right?
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:42.160
A trigger, whatever you want to call it, I think it's so important to do some real curiosity.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.720
Get really curious.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.000
And sometimes you can't do that because you're triggered.
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.400
So sometimes you have to go, okay, how do I how do I get regulated?
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.200
There's a myriad of tools.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:03.519
My my dear friend Elizabeth Browning, she talks about an imaginary monologue.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:11.680
Just say out loud in privacy of your own home what you'd want to say to that person, totally unmanicured, totally not PC at all.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:13.279
Just get it out.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.839
Yeah.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.319
Um, riff on an email, save as draft.
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:19.279
Yeah, right.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.279
Don't put an address in it until you're right.
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.279
Don't put an address, um, some kind of release.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:27.279
Um, talk to a good friend.
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.960
You know, um say, I just need to empty my basket.
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.680
Alison Armstrong uses that phrase.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:40.240
Um then after you feel seen and heard and have a voice, then there's some work to do.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:45.200
What is because what triggers one person doesn't trigger another person.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.680
What's your spiritual classroom?
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.400
Wow, I feel not heard.
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.400
That's one of my like for me, I don't know what your spiritual classroom is.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.039
We have more than one, but mine is always being told as a child.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.960
Um, and even now, not always, but often like I'm too sensitive.
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:04.720
I overthink things.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.599
And the truth is sometimes I do, but that's also I have great critical thinking.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.880
It's one of my superpowers.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.200
It's what what I do for a living, right?
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:17.680
So if I hit a trigger, what would be one of your classrooms, Anne?
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.200
Truth in advertising.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.039
Uh quiet down.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:22.319
Don't take up so much space.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:23.839
Don't take up okay.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.319
Too much! Yes! Too much.
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:28.160
Yep.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.759
So let's say, yeah, you're too much, which is the other side of you're not enough, right?
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:34.319
Yep.
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.160
So I'm too much, so I get to go, okay, that's my classroom.
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.519
And I like working with positive intelligent model of the saboteurs.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:47.599
Okay, my three top are a hyperachiever, hyper vigilant, and stickler.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.839
What is the belief that I'm carrying?
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.079
I'm too much, I'm not enough.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:55.279
I have this thing called seven sassy words that will change your life.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:56.559
Does it serve me to believe that?
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.759
Of course it does not.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.359
What does it serve me to believe?
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:04.880
It believes that some people are gonna vibe with me and some people aren't.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:07.680
I'm not too much, I'm not not enough.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:13.759
That person is just not vibing with me, or that person's having a hard day.
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.240
Okay, that's the curiosity, compassion, the self-regulation.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:25.359
Um, what and then then I need to look at what do I want out of this conversation?
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:26.240
Yes.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.440
What do I want?
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:35.279
If it's to be right, to be heard, buzzer, you're not gonna get that, right?
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:37.359
Or it's it's not gonna bring the results.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:46.400
If it is to feel like I'm owning my voice, to be in the other person's world, so at first it is all about you.
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.599
What do I need, what do I want out of this outcome that supports my growth?
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:59.519
Um, and then I go into the other person's world, getting curious about the wiring of that person.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.839
What I know about that person.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:15.599
And if you don't know anything about that person, everybody needs to feel, everybody needs to feel like they matter, they're important, they're cared about, and that they were doing their best.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:16.799
That's the catch-all.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:24.400
If you don't know squat about the person, you can, and that's when you create the bridge.
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.359
And then there's always a language.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:32.880
Um, my three catchphrases are I'm curious, I'm confused, or I'm fascinated.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.960
And I often, and I have a whole framework.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:47.440
I take people, I'm launching a pilot next month, I take people through a whole framework because language and the energy with which you share language is a game changer.
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.640
And I often say to people, hey, I've created this thing called Beautifully Honest.
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.680
I do it imperfectly and ongoingly.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.960
Would you be open to me being beautifully honest with you?
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:01.119
And most people go, What is that?
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.559
I go, I'm gonna tell you.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:12.400
And I go, and I'm not gonna, I'm gonna have hiccups, I might be awkward, and um, and and sometimes I say, so how does it feel to have me say something?
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:16.640
I'm scared, I'm not gonna attack you, you know, and that calms people down.
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:20.000
And and there's different ways you gotta iterate in a business setting, right?
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:20.799
Obviously.
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:37.200
And I say, so I'm really curious when you said this to me on that day, um, what I took it to mean was, and I'm curious, or sometimes I'll say, What were you trying to tell me?
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:39.599
Or what was going on for you?
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:41.519
And some people go, I don't even remember saying that.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.039
Oh my god, I was having such a hard day.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.799
Oh my god, we had to put my dog down.
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.160
Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:47.519
They go, no, no, no, no.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:57.759
I said, and there's I was a licensed medical massage therapist in a prior career, and it's a medical known fact that bones that break that heal properly become stronger than bones that were never broken.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:02.960
So I said, I'm not here to just level set our relationship, I'm here to transform it.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:10.639
And they go, wow, I said, so I tell them, bones that break, let's let's use this to actually have even a stronger connection.
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.719
And people really appreciate that.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:13.199
Yeah.
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:21.599
I think when you get into the habit of honesty, yeah, we all understand that we're doing it with compassion, like you said, tact and respect and yeah, all of that.
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:28.719
And then and then I'll say, and and then we'll talk about what happened, and I'll mirror back, wow, you felt this way.
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.039
What could maybe I be doing or saying differently?
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:34.480
Like, what's my role?
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:41.519
And um, a lot of times people have said, I you know, you probably get this a lot, Ann, too.
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:53.599
I just you have this just this big energy, like it's just like I'm so inspired by it, but sometimes it's I feel less than, and I go, wow, thank you for sharing that.
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:54.639
Do you do you get that?
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:56.800
I mean, I'm sure you have your own version.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:58.800
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:04.000
Yeah, no, I I I haven't had that particular instance, but yeah.
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:06.559
Yeah, I know you're ventriloquism here, right?
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.519
And the cool part is when we come at the conversation from a solution focus versus an accusation focus.
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.480
Again, curiosity versus animosity is the way I say it.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:17.119
I love it.
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.320
Yeah, it gets there.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:18.880
I love that.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:19.360
I love it.
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:20.880
That's uh that's an anism.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:24.159
But yeah.
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.119
Loisbarth.com is your website.
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:31.199
People can find information on your coaching, on your keynote speaking, on everything.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:34.639
Is there anywhere else people can uh find more about you?
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:35.280
YouTube.
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:36.400
Okay.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:43.280
Um, and uh yeah, I would say YouTube and my website, LoisBarth.com.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.639
And I'd love to keep in touch.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:52.000
And thank you so much for inviting me and engaging in this really rich, juicy, sparkle conversation.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:53.760
Thank you so much.
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.719
And I will put all of those links in the show notes for you all.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.920
Thank you so much for joining us on Dancing in the Discomfort Zone podcast.
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:01.199
We'll see you next week.
