Embrace the Journey with Ben Fanelli: Stories of Courage, Resilience, and Life After Hockey

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I went from 16, 17, 18, thinking that I could not live without playing the game of hockey at a competitive level.
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And here I am today, nothing but thankful that I didn't keep chasing it.
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I thought if you would have asked me this question at 18 years old, 19 years old, there is not a chance I would ever believe what I just said.
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Yet here I am.
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So it's the journey You're going to learn, you're going to evolve, you're going to find new things that you enjoy.
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Don't get attached and tied to these things, because everything's going to come and go and if it doesn't actually physically leave, your opinion of it might change.
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Yeah, I just think we're all in a race to the same place, and that same place is a new moment where we're going to have to find purpose and meaning.
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Yeah, it's really the process of the product.
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Nice.
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Hit me with some wisdom there.
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I like it.
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Yes, exactly.
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Hi, welcome to Curious Conversations.
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A podcast for kids by kids.
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I'm one of your hosts these conversations, a podcast for kids, by kids.
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I'm one of your hosts, xavier, and I'm your other host, emma, and we're so excited to bring you another season of interesting discussions with people from all walks of life to learn about their passions and what inspires them.
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We are still as curious as ever and we hope you will join us on our journey.
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Today, we're talking to someone who is truly inspiring Ben Finelli.
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You might know him as the former captain of the Kitchener Rangers or the OHL player who came back stronger after a traumatic brain injury, but there's so much more to Ben than hockey.
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He's now a registered psychotherapist and the founder of Heroic Minds, where he's on a mission to change how we think about mental health.
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Basically, he's here to remind us that we are not victims of what happens to us.
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We're the heroes of our own stories.
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In this episode, we're diving into everything from hockey, mental health, life in general and what happens after elite sports, mental health, life in general and what happens after elite sports.
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As teenagers, we all wonder what's next, especially if sports or other big commitments have been such a huge part of our lives.
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Ben's got some major wisdom he wants to share about why your opportunities don't end.
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They actually get bigger.
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Oh and, don't worry, we also got his take on who's winning the Stanley Cup this year.
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So grab your snacks and let's get curious.
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Hi, ben, welcome to the show.
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It's so great to meet you.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm looking forward to this.
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We are as well, so we won't talk a bit about hockey and, of course, all the great things that you're doing today.
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We'd like to start off with your experience recovering from a traumatic injury for sure.
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Oh, where to start?
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I think the first thing is honestly probably what led me to the work I do today in psychotherapy not working just for the athletes, but honestly, just simply being there for people.
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I mean, I'm kind of going to go to the end of the story, a more backwards stance.
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Your question not to minimize or oversimplify what I do, but I think, working with people navigating life's challenges, I think really, at the end of the day, all that I do is create a space in an environment where people can approach the tensions in their life, or people can approach the negative emotions in their life and as even at your young age, as you're both probably aware, it is very easy to avoid that negative emotion and that tension that we're living with.
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My role is to just create an environment where we can approach those tensions and negative emotions, not just to approach them and overcome them, but to find out what they're trying to tell us.
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Why do I feel this way?
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How did I start feeling this way?
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How do I stop feeling this way?
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And it's really energy.
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Emotion is energy, negative emotion is energy.
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Tension is from somewhere, and I want to create an environment that's safe and authentic and real and not very clinical, but a little more casual, where we can talk about things, approach that cave that we want to avoid, because often it is the cave that hides the treasure that we seek, if I use a little bit of poetic language.
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So now, coming back to answer your main question what led me there?
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Jeez, I wake up in the hospital basically being told I'm lucky to be alive.
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Life is going to be very different.
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I'm blessed and lucky to leave the hospital avoiding brain surgery, and then I'm back at home and instantly love and support from I can probably say this thousands of people.
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Most of them have no idea who I am.
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Most of them will get nothing out of choosing to support me, choosing to push love my direction and the direction of my family, and I'm a big believer that that is why I was able to recover and I'm doing what I do today.
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So so, yeah, you know you talk about my recovery and my journey.
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You know, yeah, I could dwell on the tough times.
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We've all been through tough times.
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Yeah, I could dwell on my negative thoughts.
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We've all had negative thoughts.
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I would say the one thing that now I'm trying to do is return the favor and push love out into this world, because that's what I had from people that did not have to do it, and I think that's a reason I kept going and a reason that I am where I am today.
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So it was a big thanks to lots of selfless, incredible people okay, that's um.
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It's very cool and that's awesome that those thousands of people came to support you.
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So can you talk to us a little bit more about the recovery that gave you the strength to try and come back to the hockey, to come back from hockey?
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yeah for sure.
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The recovery side where to begin?
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There too, I would say, you know, I my approach.
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At the time we weren't as advanced in the research on head injuries and concussion as we are today, and I think a lot of people in this space would know this.
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We still have a lot of work to do.
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However, I did what most people recommend not doing when you have some type of ailment or pain is to go on Dr Google and see what Dr Google tells you, and so, honestly, what I did was try and plug in absolutely everything that at the time the internet was saying would lead to healing of brain injuries, and I plugged it in every day, every single day, and then I would also sprinkle in some of that support that I had from my teammates, my family, people in the Kitchener Waterloo community and collectively, I think that is what maybe allowed me to recover.
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I would also say I think I actually did maintain a pretty positive headspace, given what I was going through, because I was around people that supported me all the time.
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I didn't really get a chance to sit in my room by myself and feel sorry for myself.
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I had my 23 teammates each year, my best friends around me, so it was tough to hide away and feel sorry for myself.
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Specifics, on the recovery side, i's there's a lot of strong research coming out now about and I don't want to overstep my boundaries.
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I am not a researcher or professional in the head injury space.
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I've been lucky to be aligned with her or have done some work with some incredible researchers in the space and there's, from what they have told me, there's, strong evidence to show that getting to physical exercise sooner than we once thought, without increasing the intensity of symptoms, can actually be positive.
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And I'll stop there because I don't want to overspeak my understanding of things.
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And so, knowing that now I think that is maybe something that I did at the time because I was so driven.
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So did I go run a marathon?
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No, but did I go for some walks and some light jogs?
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Yes.
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Did I load up as much weight on the bar as I could and rep out as hard as I could with a bunch of stress on my body?
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No, but I picked up a couple light dumbbells and started doing some exercises.
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So I don't know, maybe accidentally I was ahead of my time of where we are with the research now.
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I could be wrong, but I think maybe that had something to do with it as well.
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I tried to be as physically active as I could within the doctor's orders.
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That's honestly so inspiring your journey of the recovery and it just proves how quickly life can change.
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But it also shows what strength you can use and do just to move forward in life.
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I appreciate that.
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Yes, I agree yeah.
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So can I come back to that.
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If you could pinpoint one turning point in your recovery, what do you think it was?
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Turning point in my recovery was easy answer.
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I was watching, as I always did for those first two years, that I wasn't playing, sitting in the press box in the Kitchener Auditorium.
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Now, at this point, I started to feel sorry for myself.
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It didn't last long.
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It was a couple of games.
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I would be sitting in the press box looking at 6,000 people watching my 23 best friends do something I was very unlikely to ever do again, and I would get stuck in my head and I'd be thinking what the heck am I doing?
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I'm chasing something no one believes I'm ever going to do.
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I've left my family and friends at home.
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I haven't played a game in a year and a half At this point, actually, maybe not a year and a half, but a year and so after that game I went down into my head coach's office Steve Spott, unbelievable man, unbelievable coach and I said look, spotter, I'm just going to be honest.
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I'm starting to get into not the greatest headspace.
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It's really tough for me to watch these games.
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Go on the bus, I enjoyed that, but still then I'm sitting in a rink at a town watching the team, same cycle and I just said I'm not in the headspace I want to be in.
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I don't know if I should keep watching these games.
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I'm not sure what to do.
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And he looked at me and I'll tell you what he didn't say first.
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He didn't say let's have a pizza party, take time off, go home, take some rest.
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Didn't tell me any lies or you're going to play again, and I'll promise you that.
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He didn't give me any false hope or false positivity.
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He said what are you going to do to get back into the headspace that you want to be in and how are we going to help you get there?
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That was probably the most pivotal part of my journey.
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The next Friday I didn't go to the home game.
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I borrowed my teammate, ben Thompson.
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I borrowed his car, drove to Lyle-Hallman pool and, while the team was starting the game, I was doing the lane swim at Lyle-Hallman pool at seven or eight o'clock and I would tell you I was the youngest person in the pool, by about 60 years.
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All right, there's not too many 16 year olds that carve out time on their Friday night to do a late swim, but there I was.
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It was the first time in so long that I had felt progress, growth, competence, confidence, control, agency all these things we like to feel, as human beings, that I hadn't felt so fast forward to the end of it.
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Then I started running, started riding my bike, started competing in triathlons and duathlons, raising money for the Brain Injury Association of Canada, public speaking, sharing my story, etc.
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And I was buzzing.
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When I talk with audiences, especially sport audiences, I make sure I tell them look, this had nothing to do with hockey.
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Riding my bike, public speaking, raising money, entrepreneurship, social entrepreneurship nothing to do with hockey.
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But because of what it did for me as a human being, it allowed me to continue chasing this thing in a much healthier way, and so that's why that conversation was so pivotal that one swim started a cascade of really awesome outcomes.
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That's amazing.
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So, because of what you did to recover through the traumatic injury that you did, what are some tips that you could give to other people who went through similar or completely different injuries and help them recover?
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I would say be open to learning, and I'll niche down a little further.
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When I say open to learning, I mean open to seeing things a different way and, through conversation and being open and being creative and willing to potentially have their perspective change, it solves a lot of problems.
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You know, perspective shapes reality and so when life gives you a certain set of set of circumstances, there isn't only one way to see it all.
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Right, it might be hard at first to realize there's other ways to see it, but that first step of just saying you know what?
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I'm open to seeing this another way.
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I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm open to it.
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And then, as you can imagine, if we're looking at something different, we're going to interact with it differently, which means now our behaviors change.
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And our behaviors don't change as a means to an end.
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They change because now we're interacting with the world around us differently.
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That's probably where I would start is being open to a change in perspective and finding people you love that you can get all that crap out of your head into reality, talk about it, hear yourself say it and then, honestly, all of a sudden, the exciting adventure begins, and I think that's what any given set of circumstances should be, is that life should be an adventure, good, bad or otherwise, and hopefully people can find that so kind of circling back to the conversation with your coach, so obviously you were still around for the games very connected and things and you had.
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obviously you said you were very close with your teammates, right.
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So do you think that like having that group of support, even though you weren't part of the team, kind of still made you feel like there was a chance to come back, and did that help you in any way?
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Oh, 100%, 100% still made you feel like there was a chance to come back, and did that help you in any way?
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Oh, 100, 100, like I.
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It was actually, believe it or not, as much as my mom and I'll use the word aided hockey, her worst nightmare came true and she saw the, the positivity and value in the in the kitchener waterloo community, the Kitchener Rangers organization.
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So much so that when I started to get a little bit of my sarcasm back and my personality back, it also rubbed her a little bit the wrong way.
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She said maybe you should move back with your billet family, which were also unbelievable people.
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She said maybe you should be in that positive environment and so so, yes, great question.
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I think that was instrumental in in what's you know kind of brought me here today.
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I think being around that that environment was, was super important kitchener waterloo.
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The community here is just so great and like our older brother he builds too, and just the billet family should kind of think is a unique experience yeah, yeah, it's a special one, oh yeah um, so you were a captain in the fifth year.
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I think your fifth year yep, you did your research oh yeah, um, so not like kind of coming back.
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You obviously were a leader on the team, so how did you approach being a leader and what do you think are good ways that helped you lead as a captain?
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Geez, another awesome question.
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You guys are on fire, okay.
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Well, I learned this from one of my best buddies, who is an incredible leader, who was a captain in Kitchener one day a few years before me in Kitchener, one day a few years before me, and he said when you thrust into positions of leadership, if you try to be something other than who you are, people are going to sniff it out, they're going to realize you're not being authentic and it may lessen the belief they have in you as a leader.
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So that would be number one is that they were going to get me with my good parts, my bad parts, and I knew I wasn't perfect.
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And I think the second piece that helped with decreasing the pressure of being in a leadership position was I honestly didn't worry about being the perfect leader or saying the perfect thing.
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I kind of have this philosophy whether this is right or wrong, but I have this philosophy that if, every day, my job as a leader, in whatever environment, that is my sole job my mission above anything else is to make sure that any person that I am supposed to be leading although I think everyone can be a leader in their own situation but if I'm supposed to be leading them.
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If I bring.
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The mission of my job is to make sure that every person, or as many people as possible that I'm overseeing feel as competent and as confident and as full or you could say loved and as full, or you could say loved as possible.
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If that is the mission, the answers become much easier.
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What to do becomes much easier, right?
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So if you take a situation where someone's underperforming right, my mission is to make sure they're as competent, as confident and feel as full as possible.
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Now I can see where they need that.
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What are they missing?
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Why aren't they performing as well as they could have?
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Are they kind of withdrawn and not caring?
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Okay, so maybe in that place they need to find that love and joy and engagement with what we're doing here.
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Okay, that answers that question.
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I don't have to now just jump and be assertive or plug.
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In this leadership tactic I saw on YouTube.
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It's like no, the answer's come to you In a different situation.
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Maybe someone is really stuck in their head.
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Everyone else thinks they're lazy, but they're just anxious and they don't have the energy because they don't believe in themselves.
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And so, instead of jumping on them and saying you got to work harder and you got to blah, blah, blah and get it's like well, actually wait a second.
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Maybe they actually need a little bit of reminder of how great they are, maybe they need a little bit of love.
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Again, the answer the it.
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The answer comes naturally because you go back to the mission of these people need to feel as full and capable and confident as possible.
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So for me it was never really much overthinking or complexity.
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I just brought that mission with me and, to be honest, I still do today.
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That's it.
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And sometimes you speak more, sometimes you listen more.
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Depends on you know how you're going to fulfill the mission that day with the people you're trying to lead.
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That's amazing.
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So you were talking about how you had your philosophy when you were the captain of the Kitchener Rangers.
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How did you take that philosophy and what you learned as the captain of the Kitchener Rangers and used it as a coach for the Kitchener of?
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Waterloo, I think, keeping one thing in mind you have 23 guys on a roster, we would sometimes carry more than that, I learned, and I think apply this as well.
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This has helped me, Even with the team I'm building now on Heroic Minds.
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We've got developers, we've got investors, we've got other people.
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It's that I don't want another Ben Finelli on my team.
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I don't.
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We have one and he's okay, but so I don't need another one.
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I want people to see the world very different than me, because they're going to look to solve problems a different way than me.
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They're going to have a different opinion.
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I want different opinions.
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I don't want people to just tell me what I already think or believe.
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I want them to challenge me.
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I want them to see the world in a different way.
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I don't know if I actually knew that consciously when I was in my fifth year.
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I mean I was still.
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I mean knowing what I know now.
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I think I started to appreciate that, but didn't realize it at the time.
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We've got 23 different minds in this room.
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Some guys want to be here.
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Some guys are already thinking about what they're going to do after hockey.
00:20:28.147 --> 00:20:29.632
Some guys are just here because it's fun.
00:20:29.632 --> 00:20:37.141
Some guys are obsessed with this game and all they do is eat, sleep, breathe hockey and that can be challenging, right?
00:20:37.141 --> 00:20:54.040
That can be challenging for sure, and I think I learned to respect that in my last year also because I had a transition that year where I went from the obsession hockey is everything to maybe there's other things I could do in life and enjoy and engage with.
00:20:55.084 --> 00:21:15.747
So I think, through my own personal journey, that added to this understanding and I would say that I think that's what drives me today on a leadership side, a business side, what drives me today on a leadership side, a business side, an interpersonal side the people in my life.
00:21:15.747 --> 00:21:16.990
I embrace people that see the world differently than me.
00:21:16.990 --> 00:21:19.700
As long as they're not malevolent or malicious or anything like that, they still push love out into the world.
00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:26.001
But if they do it a different way than me and they see things differently, I celebrate that, and now I'm in a position where I just want to learn from them.
00:21:26.021 --> 00:21:27.643
I celebrate that and now I'm in a position where I just want to learn from them.
00:21:27.643 --> 00:21:34.910
So, on the topic of the University of Waterloo, can you share some of your favorite memories and what you enjoyed about that job?
00:21:35.770 --> 00:21:36.872
Oh, where to start?
00:21:36.872 --> 00:21:42.436
First off, I had the most incredible boss ever, brian Bohr, who's been the head coach there for a while now.
00:21:42.436 --> 00:21:48.465
He supported me, he believed in me, he gave me opportunity.
00:21:48.465 --> 00:21:55.291
He treated me like family still does today, even though I decided to step away from coaching and that's died of hockey.
00:21:55.291 --> 00:21:56.546
He still supports me.
00:21:57.220 --> 00:22:03.019
You know I use this ridiculous example when I describe, uh, very stealthless, supportive people.
00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:12.740
I say you know, if I was in, if was in the middle of italy right now and I called someone and said, hey, can you come pick me up, can you drive over here or fly over here and pick me up?
00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:13.782
And it's two in the morning.
00:22:13.782 --> 00:22:17.152
He's the type of person that would do that, no questions asked.
00:22:17.152 --> 00:22:23.630
So, first thing is the coach our assistant coaches same thing.
00:22:23.630 --> 00:22:26.134
Our equipment managers same thing.
00:22:26.134 --> 00:22:29.851
Our assistant equipment manager same thing.
00:22:29.851 --> 00:22:31.626
And now that just takes me into the players.
00:22:32.651 --> 00:22:35.119
We had a lot of great hockey players, don't get me wrong.
00:22:35.842 --> 00:22:47.693
But if you look through the rosters what their goals are in life and now what they're doing today it's nothing but elite, elite people that are on that roster.
00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:51.986
And maybe that has something to do with the academics I'm sure there's a correlation there.
00:22:51.986 --> 00:22:57.463
But the people in that locker room were just elite people, not just hockey players.
00:22:57.463 --> 00:23:06.031
Elite people, organized, driven, articulate, respectful, which, to be honest for me, whether this is right or wrong to say at times when maybe we didn't succeed as much on the scoreboard.
00:23:06.031 --> 00:23:35.808
Disrespectful, which, to be honest, for me, whether this is right or wrong to say when we, at times when maybe we didn't succeed as much on the scoreboard, it was hard to get upset or frustrated because you go into the locker room after the game and you're like there's a future incredible teacher, there's a future optometrist lawyer, future optometrist lawyer, doctor, surgeon, list goes on and you're like, okay, it's clearly not all about this game of hockey and there's more to life.
00:23:35.808 --> 00:23:43.288
And so that was another cool experience which helped me transition out of the game and thinking that the game's everything right.
00:23:44.740 --> 00:23:53.428
So throughout your I'd say your uh younger adult life, you were in multiple places of leadership right, a coach, a captain.
00:23:53.428 --> 00:23:59.744
You found a four oak mines, so from all, like the learning through sports and transitioning to business.
00:23:59.744 --> 00:24:07.912
What would you say is the one piece of advice like leadership advice or not that just you've kind of kept with you and implemented the whole time?
00:24:09.520 --> 00:24:11.165
Though we're all in a race to nothing.
00:24:11.165 --> 00:24:19.654
I know that's a little bit existential and I know it sounds pessimistic, but we're all in a race.
00:24:19.654 --> 00:24:27.060
I say this with my clients Do you know how many Teslas you have to own to solve self-doubt and depression?
00:24:27.060 --> 00:24:32.003
There is no amount.
00:24:32.003 --> 00:24:45.055
Many stories about people that have gotten to the place they always wanted to get to and it lasts for a couple of weeks, but then we're all going to the next place and you know what that place is.
00:24:45.075 --> 00:24:50.153
It's a time where we have to continue to create value and meaning and find purpose and engagement in life.
00:24:50.153 --> 00:24:58.041
You know, I appreciate you both so much tonight slowing me down and having a meaningful conversation, because I'm just go, go, go, go, go.
00:24:58.041 --> 00:25:04.056
And I have a quote on my wall right here that says embrace the journey, because that's what it's about.
00:25:04.056 --> 00:25:21.636
Right, if, if something's a means to an end, it's probably not worth doing because you've just sacrificed all that time to get there, because you weren't as engaged in the moment long way to get to where you wanted to be, and so I think that's probably what I've learned.
00:25:22.037 --> 00:25:30.778
I went, I went from 16, 17, 18, thinking that I could not live without playing the game of hockey at a competitive level.
00:25:30.778 --> 00:25:37.479
And here I am today, nothing but thankful that I didn't keep chasing it.
00:25:37.479 --> 00:25:47.853
I thought if you would have asked me this question at 18 years old, 19 years old, there is not a chance I would ever believe what I just said.
00:25:47.853 --> 00:25:49.338
Yet here I am.
00:25:49.338 --> 00:25:53.213
So it's the journey You're going to learn, you're going to evolve, you're going to find new things that you enjoy.
00:25:53.213 --> 00:25:55.362
Don't get attached and tied to these things, because everything's going to come and go that you enjoy.
00:25:55.362 --> 00:26:07.402
Don't get attached and tied to these things because everything's going to come and go and if it doesn't actually physically leave your opinion of it like change, so it's kind of left, in a way, from your mind and body.
00:26:07.402 --> 00:26:15.060
And yeah, I just think we're all in a race to the same place and that same place is a new moment where we're going to have to find purpose and meaning.
00:26:15.849 --> 00:26:18.077
Yeah, so it's really the process of the product.
00:26:19.131 --> 00:26:19.291
Nice.
00:26:19.291 --> 00:26:20.576
Hit me with some wisdom there.
00:26:20.576 --> 00:26:21.136
I like it.
00:26:21.136 --> 00:26:22.300
Yes, exactly.
00:26:24.371 --> 00:26:27.519
So we talked about how you were the founder of Paroic Minds.
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:33.269
So can you tell us why you started Paroic Minds and what it has evolved to today?
00:26:33.751 --> 00:26:39.611
Yes, thank you for asking that has evolved to today.
00:26:39.611 --> 00:26:40.251
Yes, thank you for asking that.
00:26:40.251 --> 00:26:47.061
So I look at the process right now of finding engaging, reliable support for wellbeing.
00:26:47.061 --> 00:26:50.912
Let's even focus on psychotherapy, counseling, coaching.
00:26:50.912 --> 00:26:53.342
It's a clunky process.
00:26:53.342 --> 00:27:00.201
You have to sift through the depths of the internet, then go to their website, then go to another platform to engage with them, and it's clunky.
00:27:00.201 --> 00:27:04.101
And we already know 70% of people are probably not reaching out for help.
00:27:04.101 --> 00:27:09.219
Cost stigma, logistics, it's just life's busy, I don't want to talk about it.
00:27:09.219 --> 00:27:12.619
So how are we cracking open that door for more people?
00:27:12.619 --> 00:27:15.837
And that's what we're trying to do with Heroic Minds.
00:27:15.837 --> 00:27:32.614
We people and that's what we're trying to do with Heroic Minds we are blending this mix of kind of pulling together all pieces where we've got courses, we've got professionals from around the world, we've got a podcast type social media user interface where anyone can jump on and the control is in the hands of the users.
00:27:33.476 --> 00:27:35.602
If you don't want to pay anything, you don't have to.
00:27:35.602 --> 00:27:37.094
You can learn from people all over the world through the free content that's available.
00:27:37.094 --> 00:27:37.166
't want to pay anything?
00:27:37.166 --> 00:27:37.241
You don't have to.
00:27:37.241 --> 00:27:39.196
You can learn from people all over the world through the free content that's available.
00:27:39.196 --> 00:27:40.840
You want to take a step further?
00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:45.630
You can subscribe to Heroic Minds and have access to even more content from professionals around the world.
00:27:45.630 --> 00:27:50.330
If you're enjoying a professional, you're listening to, book a call with them through the platform.
00:27:50.330 --> 00:28:03.644
And if you want to take another step, professionals can onboard or upload their own courses, whether that's audio video, text, and it's in a simple way for the professional and for the user.
00:28:03.644 --> 00:28:20.836
So really just trying to simplify and streamline this entire relationship between professionals and those that need support from the professionals, and doing it in a way where even young, spry individuals like yourselves are like hey, that's a little easier and a little more enjoyable and it doesn't cost so much.
00:28:20.836 --> 00:28:23.590
Awesome, I'm going to do that to ingest in myself.
00:28:23.590 --> 00:28:28.259
So that's the mission with Heroic Minds trying to reinvent self-help.
00:28:29.261 --> 00:28:34.079
And does Heroic Minds target any age or audience, or is it really meant for everyone?
00:28:35.644 --> 00:28:41.881
It is growing to become meant for everyone because of the breadth of knowledge from the professionals we have on the platform.
00:28:41.881 --> 00:28:44.054
Some stuff is tailored at youth.
00:28:44.054 --> 00:28:49.854
A lot of the stuff I do is Some stuff is tailored at young professionals going for interviews for jobs.
00:28:49.854 --> 00:28:58.461
We have professionals out of the US talking about job leadership and roles in the workplace.
00:28:58.461 --> 00:29:06.670
We have professionals talking about head injuries and concussions, professionals talking about addiction, so on and so forth.
00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:08.837
So it's a wide breadth.
00:29:08.837 --> 00:29:18.065
However, if you're asking me from a business perspective and I have to give my business answer, I would say our target right now is 16 to 20 years old.
00:29:19.550 --> 00:29:32.798
And do you think, as someone who went through an injury we talked about it and that really benefited from a lot of self-help do you think that gave you a different perspective while founding Shero of Mines and do you think it helped you?
00:29:34.411 --> 00:29:43.016
I honestly think somehow you took that question out of my head so that I could give you an answer that I want to give you.
00:29:43.016 --> 00:29:48.316
I used to joke around and I started the call with this message.
00:29:48.316 --> 00:29:51.714
I said there were probably thousands of people I'm not saying that to pump my tires.
00:29:51.714 --> 00:29:52.820
That had nothing to do with me.
00:29:52.820 --> 00:29:55.973
That had to do with the incredible Kitchener Rangers legacy.
00:29:55.973 --> 00:29:57.096
That's why that happened.
00:29:57.096 --> 00:30:05.673
And I used to joke and say you know what?
00:30:05.673 --> 00:30:08.660
I wish I could package up, bottle up all that support and love and knowledge and wisdom that people shared with me.
00:30:08.660 --> 00:30:22.057
I wish I could bottle that up and just plug it into people's lives that are going through tough times and say you know what, drink this, drink this bottle and see you know what Drink this, drink this bottle and see what you're going to become through this challenge.
00:30:22.057 --> 00:30:24.461
And that's what I'm yes to your point.
00:30:24.461 --> 00:30:35.859
That's what I'm trying to do with Heroic Minds, like I want other people to have that Endless resources agency to approach it how they want, and that's what we're doing right now.
00:30:36.430 --> 00:30:37.913
That's the goal.
00:30:37.913 --> 00:30:51.470
So you were talking about heroic minds as opposed to help everyone with everything, but is there um a specific thing that people come to heroic minds about that, like several people need help with?
00:30:52.730 --> 00:30:55.353
for sure, I would say as a lot.
00:30:55.353 --> 00:30:57.594
Yes, there's a lot of different resources.
00:30:57.594 --> 00:31:02.356
I would say right now, our target has been the sport performance space.
00:31:02.356 --> 00:31:12.462
We have specialists talking about coaching, leadership, performance, anxiety, relationship with sport, overthinking all that good stuff.
00:31:12.462 --> 00:31:23.413
Right now that target would be athletes and from getting into first responders, and we've had some corporate partnerships as well.
00:31:23.413 --> 00:31:26.461
So it's an interesting journey.
00:31:26.461 --> 00:31:34.910
I said my mind's moving a million miles a second because it's kind of the you think about the Uber model or the Airbnb model.
00:31:34.910 --> 00:31:42.151
You have to find people that need homes and then you need to find people that are willing to share their homes and we're doing a little tug of war with that.
00:31:42.151 --> 00:31:48.336
Right now, we're finding more people that need support, and then we got to find the support that they're looking for and trying to balance that as we grow.
00:31:50.141 --> 00:31:51.250
It sounds like such a great idea.
00:31:51.250 --> 00:32:03.393
I mean, it sounds like because you as someone who got through it, but also with different perspective experts, and all this it sounds like because you as someone who got through it, but also with different perspective experts, and all this, it just it sounds like a great idea and just a new, a new evolving way for self-help.
00:32:03.393 --> 00:32:10.898
It kind of at a time where people are realizing that it's a good thing to get, so it just it sounds like a great, great program awesome.
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.392
Well, thank you, I will shoot you a link and let you sign up.
00:32:13.392 --> 00:32:14.654
Maybe you can give me some feedback.
00:32:15.455 --> 00:32:15.936
Of course.
00:32:16.077 --> 00:32:17.661
Yeah, of course.
00:32:17.661 --> 00:32:25.517
So, talking about athletics and people, do you still watch hockey?
00:32:26.310 --> 00:32:32.920
I do, In fact, probably this evening I'll have my laptop out and be watching our favorite Toronto Maple Leafs.
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:34.511
Yes, I still watch.
00:32:34.894 --> 00:32:41.355
Fantastic, and do you still keep in touch with some teammates, or then all your teammates?
00:32:42.698 --> 00:32:43.398
you know what it's.
00:32:43.398 --> 00:32:47.933
I think a lot of people say this in in, especially in sports.
00:32:47.933 --> 00:33:04.641
You know, you go through such emotional experiences together that the the time it takes to bond with someone shrinks down because you're going through such emotional difficulty at times.
00:33:04.641 --> 00:33:25.663
Right, we all so many of us believed that this game was going to be everything, and so we just rode the wave of the ups and downs of this sport, and so the bonds with people were so strong that I don't talk with them all every day, or even every month, but as soon as we, you know there's a text or you see each other out or you make plans to connect.
00:33:25.663 --> 00:33:28.734
I know you probably heard this before.
00:33:28.734 --> 00:33:31.951
It's like I've seen them every day for the last 10 years, but we haven't.
00:33:31.951 --> 00:33:45.913
So, yes, not every day, but I definitely keep in touch with a lot of guys that I was very blessed and lucky to have spent time with while playing hockey so, um, you're talking about keeping in touch with former teammates.
00:33:46.394 --> 00:33:50.431
You played when, uh, with gabriel landiskov, the captain of the avalanche.
00:33:50.431 --> 00:33:52.234
Do you still keep in touch with him?
00:33:53.037 --> 00:34:02.942
yes, I'm very lucky to to keep in touch with that guy, and what an unbelievable person he is better person than he is hockey player if I could say that um.
00:34:02.983 --> 00:34:14.358
So he recently went through a career threatening injury, so did you share anything like obviously support, but advice about working through injuries, especially ones that might just delay his return to hockey?
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:31.182
Yeah, we've been chatting briefly Again, honestly, not professionally, but as a friend, trying to create a space where you approach that tension and approach that negative energy that he might have in him.
00:34:31.182 --> 00:34:41.878
And yeah, I try and check in all the time, send positive thoughts, quotes, messages, videos, right Another place where heroic minds comes into play.
00:34:41.878 --> 00:34:45.780
So, yeah, we've been in touch and I've tried to be there as much as I can.
00:34:45.780 --> 00:35:04.693
And looping back to what we've talked about many times in this call so far, he was one of the first people to support me when I stepped onto the ice and pull equipment for the first time, allowed to engage in some light contact.
00:35:04.693 --> 00:35:08.603
He was the first person to come up and hit me into the boards and he said I know you could handle it, I just wanted to be the first one to do it.
00:35:08.603 --> 00:35:10.313
He was at my side.
00:35:10.494 --> 00:35:12.579
This is the crazy thing about someone like him.
00:35:12.579 --> 00:35:15.594
Think about the position he was in he was becoming.
00:35:15.594 --> 00:35:18.101
A lot of us knew he was going to be our first round pick.
00:35:18.101 --> 00:35:19.914
We didn't know he was going to be second overall.
00:35:19.914 --> 00:35:22.300
We knew he was going to play in the NHL.
00:35:22.300 --> 00:35:32.155
He's got life in the palm of his hand doing amazing things and there he is still carving out time to support someone he's only known for a year and a half.
00:35:32.155 --> 00:35:36.893
He's just a lights out 10 out of 10 person.
00:35:36.893 --> 00:35:39.101
So, yeah, very lucky to be able to keep in touch with him.
00:35:39.101 --> 00:35:43.280
I send positive vibes over to Colorado every day that I can.
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:47.139
Whatever happens in his life, he's going to be absolutely fine.
00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:55.757
He's a man of endless skills and abilities, but I just always hope he's in the headspace that he wants to be, whether that's as a hockey player or not.
00:35:56.170 --> 00:35:57.255
Sounds like a great guy.
00:35:57.836 --> 00:35:58.278
Amazing.
00:35:59.170 --> 00:36:11.898
So we both play hockey and kind of from our perspective as young players in minor hockey, there's a lot of people who think like you need to almost tough it out with be with a head injury or a knee injury or just being injured in general.
00:36:11.898 --> 00:36:18.063
So how do you think minor hockey should treat injuries or how they should change how they treat injuries?
00:36:18.670 --> 00:36:22.010
It's a great, great question, you know.
00:36:22.010 --> 00:36:27.923
I would say honestly, the head injuries appear to be a bit different, right?
00:36:27.923 --> 00:36:40.039
Because other injuries, I think, because we can see them and because we can experience the acute pain and we can talk about it and point where it is A lot of those injuries I think are, I'm hoping, well looked after.
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:42.208
I mean, there's always the chance of coming back too early.
00:36:42.208 --> 00:36:58.460
But I would say generally I don't have tons of knowledge or data in the space, but from what I see, those physical injuries that we can feel and see I think are dealt with pretty well and I'm seeing growth in how we treat and deal with concussions as well.
00:36:58.460 --> 00:37:06.780
I always watch when I talk about this as if it's a sport issue, and I don't think it is necessarily a sport issue.
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:15.161
It's just that a lot of concussions that get attention are in sport, but we never talk about concussion with car accidents.
00:37:15.161 --> 00:37:27.014
There's tons of concussions and head injuries and car accidents, right, but that's not what gets the cover of the paper, because it's not as sexy as sports, and so, again, this is my bias.
00:37:27.014 --> 00:37:40.083
I do not have data to support this, but in the work that I do, I don't think the care for the concussion is the problem.
00:37:40.083 --> 00:37:45.583
I think there's tons of unbelievable professionals out there doing the best they can with the information we have.
00:37:45.583 --> 00:37:58.282
I think it's more of a societal piece, like we have all these professionals saying, hey, take time, hey, take time, wait till you're fully back to normal and gone through the protocols and slowly transitioned your way back in.
00:37:58.282 --> 00:37:59.836
We have all these people doing that.
00:38:00.510 --> 00:38:03.110
So where does the problem arise?
00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:09.780
Well, if I may, I think the problem arises from more of the societal race.
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:13.666
We're all in to get to the next rung on the ladder and get to doing what we're doing.
00:38:13.666 --> 00:38:18.800
And I got to get back because I got to play in the NHL and I got to do this and I can't look weak and I can't do it.
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:20.943
That's not sport, that's life.
00:38:22.333 --> 00:38:33.657
There's a lot of similarities between navigating a concussion and navigating certain challenges with mental health when it's like don't talk about it, no one can see it, I don't want to be weak, so so I'm not going to say anything.
00:38:33.657 --> 00:38:37.141
Identity challenges with.
00:38:37.141 --> 00:38:40.335
If I'm not playing hockey and I've got this concussion, I just sit at home all day.
00:38:40.335 --> 00:38:41.996
There's nothing else I do with my life.
00:38:41.996 --> 00:38:51.275
That's not a sport issue, that's personal philosophy, that's a societal kind of idea or social issue, whatever you want to label it.
00:38:52.452 --> 00:38:54.539
I just don't think it's sports specifically.
00:38:54.539 --> 00:38:56.755
So again I'll come back to.
00:38:56.755 --> 00:39:10.695
I know some unbelievable people in the space helping tons and tons of young athletes successfully navigate concussion in sport, and so there's a lot of good out there and I think that good is growing.
00:39:10.695 --> 00:39:12.052
I think the research is growing.
00:39:12.052 --> 00:39:32.202
When it becomes a little hairy, I think, is those the personal philosophy of the person with the injury that decides do I, you know, abide by the directives of these professionals or do I kind of slide through the back door and get back a little quicker than maybe I should?
00:39:32.202 --> 00:39:35.059
And I don't think we can necessarily blame sport for that.
00:39:37.490 --> 00:39:40.199
Before we end this off, let's end off with a little bit of a higher note.
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:43.559
Who do you think is going to win the Stanley Cup this year?
00:39:45.891 --> 00:39:48.960
This is what I love about hockey is you literally never know.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:55.193
St Louis was in last place at Christmas, what four or five years ago, whatever that is.
00:39:55.193 --> 00:39:56.898
And then they win the Stanley Cup.
00:39:56.898 --> 00:39:59.994
I would like to see Colorado win it again.
00:39:59.994 --> 00:40:06.393
If I'm being honest and I'm not just uh, jumping on the bandwagon, I love watching gate play out there.
00:40:06.454 --> 00:40:12.269
I mean, damn, winnipeg looks quite deep and tough and well-rounded right now.
00:40:12.269 --> 00:40:24.059
So I think if if someone's betting strictly on how the hockey is today not in the summer, but today, yeah I think people would probably put their money on Winnipeg.
00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:25.860
I'd love to see that happen as well.
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:29.684
Canadian team, local Kitchener boy helped lead in the charge there.
00:40:29.684 --> 00:40:39.311
So I think that would be cool to see Winnipeg do well, winnipeg do well.
00:40:39.311 --> 00:40:44.563
Would love to see Toronto do something for the people out this way in the southern Ontario area that have been hanging on a cliff waiting for something exciting for years.
00:40:44.563 --> 00:40:45.893
So I think there's an option there.
00:40:45.893 --> 00:40:56.340
But at the end, I think that's why I had such a love for this game is that it's it's incredible that you really never know who's going to win so special.
00:40:56.340 --> 00:41:03.219
I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat watching, as I'm sure you probably will as well, as we get into the spring summer months here.
00:41:03.949 --> 00:41:07.697
Yeah, it's definitely one of the hardest trophies to win in sports.
00:41:07.898 --> 00:41:08.820
Absolutely.
00:41:09.001 --> 00:41:10.503
Yeah, what are your picks?
00:41:10.503 --> 00:41:12.297
Do you guys have an opinion on this one?
00:41:12.449 --> 00:41:16.235
Well, obviously I would like the Leafs to win and we've won the Leafs to win.
00:41:16.235 --> 00:41:28.070
But some other Canadian teams have really surprised me this year, like Calgary's been doing a lot better than expected, and Winnipeg.
00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:33.038
Even though they are a good team, I don't think a lot of people expected them to go on their amazing like.
00:41:33.038 --> 00:41:42.297
I think it was 11- 0 at the start of the year, so, um, I think I I'd like to, when I see a canadian team win the cup, finally bring it back.
00:41:42.436 --> 00:41:45.583
I like it I'll agree with xavier on that one.
00:41:45.583 --> 00:41:48.516
I mean, I'm a habs fan, so we're going through a rebuild right now.
00:41:48.516 --> 00:41:52.030
But yeah um, I think, I think it'll be.
00:41:52.030 --> 00:41:53.833
It'll be fun for canadian team doing.
00:41:53.833 --> 00:41:55.056
I agree with Colorado.
00:41:55.056 --> 00:41:57.521
I'd love to see them win the cup again.
00:41:57.521 --> 00:41:58.463
It's just great.
00:41:58.463 --> 00:42:07.858
They're a fun team to watch with the McCarr and McKinnon Just even the whole team, like there's every player on that team.
00:42:07.858 --> 00:42:09.021
It's just they're all fun to watch.
00:42:09.490 --> 00:42:11.097
So I could not agree more.
00:42:11.097 --> 00:42:13.972
I love where the game's going right.
00:42:13.972 --> 00:42:25.559
We're seeing so many skilled players now in deeper parts of the lineup that I think we're seeing a safer, more respectful game.
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:53.038
But then here's the irony it's faster than it's ever been, so the risk is even higher for the injury head injury piece, which which we've spent some time talking about here tonight, and so I know it's a little poetic to say, but warms my heart to see the game going in the direction it is where, yes, it's faster, yes it's heavier, yes it's more skilled, but it seems like there's a decrease in the in the agendas of of simply going around and banging bodies.
00:42:53.038 --> 00:42:56.036
I think there's there's more to the game now, and it's a beautiful thing.
00:42:56.740 --> 00:42:58.952
It's really exciting to see where the game is going.
00:42:59.153 --> 00:42:59.516
I agree.
00:43:00.230 --> 00:43:01.394
Thank you so much for your time.
00:43:01.394 --> 00:43:02.297
We appreciate it.
00:43:02.297 --> 00:43:05.956
You're always go, go, go, but we really appreciate the time.
00:43:05.956 --> 00:43:10.891
I think we're excited to see what comes out of heroic minds as well.
00:43:11.554 --> 00:43:12.538
Yes, thank you so much.
00:43:14.434 --> 00:43:15.079
I echo that.
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:20.679
I am equally as excited to see where this thing goes and, like I said, it's a it's a journey and an adventure.
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.150
So, wherever it goes, I'm having a heck of a good time.
00:43:23.150 --> 00:43:30.775
Thank you both for slowing me down here tonight and asking incredible questions and thinking to me to be on here.
00:43:30.775 --> 00:43:33.722
What you, what you both, are doing, is absolutely outstanding.
00:43:33.722 --> 00:43:35.592
So thank you both.
00:43:35.592 --> 00:43:36.393
I appreciate it.
00:43:36.713 --> 00:43:37.675
Thank you.
00:43:37.675 --> 00:43:38.617
Great conversation.
00:43:38.617 --> 00:43:48.077
Thank you for listening and I know all the shows you probably listen to say this, but if you enjoy this episode, please follow and rate the podcast.
00:43:48.710 --> 00:43:52.657
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00:43:52.657 --> 00:43:55.255
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00:43:55.255 --> 00:43:56.974
The links are in the show notes.
00:43:56.974 --> 00:43:58.221
Thanks for tuning in.
00:43:58.221 --> 00:43:59.123
Bye.