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Hey, it's Payne Lindsey here.
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A few months ago, live from the Tenderfoot stage at CrimeCon,
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I got a chance to sit down and talk to
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Kyle Tequila, host of Crook.
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County, and Dennis Cooper, the host of Culpable. We discussed
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both of.
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Their true crime podcasts, but also dove a lot deeper
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into how these shows are actually made. I hope you
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enjoy my conversation with these two amazing podcasters. These guys
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are true crime podcasters like me. They have their own
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investigations and stories that they've told. I'm huge fans of
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theirs and I've known them for a long time. I
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think we all have kind of our own unique experience
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in this space and also like a lot of similarities.
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And I just kind of want to just rip it
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open with, I'll start with you, Kyle. For those who
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don't know, what is this.
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Just the logline of your story?
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Your podcast and you came to us years ago and
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I was like, okay, holy shit, we're making a podcast
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about this.
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But for those who don't know, tell them what the
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premise is. Yeah.
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Crook County is the story of my dad who lived
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a secret double life as a Chicago mafia hit man.
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And the whole family, including myself and my mother, didn't
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know about it. He kept it secret from all of
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us for 30 something years. And I found out when
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I was like 29 that I was already married. I
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was already planning on having a kid. And now I
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have this bombshell dropped in my lap. So what am
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I supposed to do with this information? And so it
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took me years to kind of digest all of that.
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And then I started recording just for posterity, just for
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family archives. And then as time went on and the
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more footage I got of him, it just started to
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come together. Like it just needed to be something bigger
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than just a family thing. It needed to be a show.
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So.
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I've watched The Sopranos and stuff like that. I mean,
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I like Goodfellas. I like mafia-style movies. I don't know
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what it's like for it to be a true story.
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Because a part of me is like, that's badass. But
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that's definitely not what you thought, correct?
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Well, what's weird is I still don't know what it's like.
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Okay.
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Because I grew up with, like, he was just a
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firefighter paramedic in my eyes. Like, we had no idea.
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So we lived, like, normal, boring, suburban.
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Lives, right?
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It wasn't like we knew that he was this big
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mafia hitman growing up and he had a reputation around
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town and everyone knew we were like mafia kids. That's
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not how it was at all. We just thought we
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were a regular family. So it's weird knowing now that
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that whole part of my life was kind of like
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a lie and that there was always danger around every corner.
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If he did something, he fucked up, that could have
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come back on us, but we had no idea. So
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that's crazy to think about.
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What was your first reaction and where have you settled this?
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My first reaction was you're full of shit. Like, are
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you insane? Have you lost your mind? Now, mind you,
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he was also like, I put him through rehab and
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I got him clean. So he was a heroin addict.
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So I'm like, is this some like heroin, like fever dream?
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Like, what are you talking about? What happened in that
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rehab I put you in? Yeah, exactly.
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So, yeah, it wasn't an ayahuasca trip, was it?
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Right.
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So, but over time, as he started telling me more
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and more of the story and it became this huge thing.
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like you know full of details and full of life
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and you know i'm starting to verify things with people
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that he grew up with and other family members who
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didn't know but kind of knew that he had like
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a dark side and it all started to make sense
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like oh this actually is real i don't know how
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much is real but it's real like there's enough there
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that that's real so i just started diving in and
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doing the work and eventually this we got crook county
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out of the deal.
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So to sum it up, at this point in time,
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how do you feel about it, actually? Are you mad?
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You know, if he wasn't such a fuck-up, pardon my French,
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and it didn't, like, the mafia thing didn't destroy the family.
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His heroin addiction destroyed the family.
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Okay.
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So I'm pissed that he's a degenerate heroin addict. And
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that the dynamic of our family is, like, gone because.
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Is that associated with the double life he was living?
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Well, I mean, he was always, like, I mean, he's
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around narcotics and cocaine and booze all the time. And he's,
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you know, it's just, I can't imagine the stress and
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guilt you could feel of being someone who's killed people,
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multiple people. Like, that had to weigh on him.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so you self-medicate, right? But it got really bad
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because as a firefighter, he was in a really bad accident,
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and then they gave him all these painkillers to deal
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with the surgeries. And that's when everything escalated as far
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as his addiction is concerned. And that's like when he
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lost control. You got the legal form first, and then
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it just became an absolute.
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Exactly.
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Then you had to hit the streets after they cut
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him off. So it's like, I'm more mad that that happened.
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But now it's like, I guess I'm grateful that we
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didn't get the mafia blowback as a kid. Like, I'm
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grateful that whatever he did didn't come back on us.
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So it's a weird, full of very contracting, you know, emotions.
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You know, I've covered dozens of stories, but they've never
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been about, you know, my family, right?
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Yeah, sure.
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And so, like, that's got to be a completely different beast.
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And so I think that, one, kudos to you for.
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I mean, I'm sure maybe it's even therapeutic in some
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weird way to sort of like put it down and like,
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I don't know, is it a processing part of that?
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I mean, it took me years to make it for
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a reason.
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Yeah.
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Because I needed that time to process it. And because
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the whole time I'm also investigating, I'm learning new information,
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getting new stories out of him. I'm, you know, interviewing people.
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I'm getting, you know, getting more raw emotions from people.
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And so it took a long time to, you know,
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I'm like editing and putting a story together and also
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processing things at the same time. Then I take a break.
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then I edit a little bit and then I process
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and I take a break. And so, but yeah, now
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that it's all done, it's extremely cathartic. Like I feel
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like that monkey's off my back now and it's no
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longer my burden like it was. Like now it's like
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out into the world and now it's like a gift,
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like my gift to other people to maybe listen and
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maybe learn from or maybe gain some inspiration or hope
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or whatever.
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I hope you're enjoying this episode live from CrimeCon. Want
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And we'll see you in Las Vegas next May. Now
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back to the show.
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Let's start with just a couple of season one, like
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you getting into true crime podcasting, just that journey.
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Yeah, so not a personal story so much, you know,
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working with strangers on the contrary. But as you know,
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I mean, you were a big inspiration for me. I
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just pretty much heard what you did and thought I
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could probably steal that formula.
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You're like, yeah, that guy, I can do better than
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that guy.
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Yeah, you know, so.
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And he did.
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And he absolutely did. That's what I've been saying. I've
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been trying to tell you guys. But, yeah, no, I just,
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funny enough, I never intended on doing this.
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It was just something that, you know, I thought was
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really cool, and I was inspired by what you did
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and thought maybe I could. And, you know, to shorten
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a long story, I learned about Christian Andracchio's case at
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CrimeCon of all places, which is why I always love
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coming to this. I always love seeing so many people
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out here and seeing these people, you know, you know,
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pass out their loved ones flyers, just trying to get
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attention on it because, you know, ultimately at the end
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of the day you want to solve these cases that
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you follow, but a big part of it too is
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just getting them the attention that they need and deserve.
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And so it was.
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2018 CrimeCon Nashville and got a flyer from one of
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his family members about his case and contacted Ray Andreacchio
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and the rest is history from there.
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Telling the story of an unsolved case and you're basically
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trying to pick up where investigators left off and move
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the needle. Tell me from your perspective what that's actually like.
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Well, it's tough.
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I mean, there's so many layers to it. You know,
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just to go back to the start of your question
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about picking up the pieces where they've been left off,
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you know, oftentimes that's the problem with these cases. That's
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why they remain unsolved is because that attention dies off.
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The police department or sheriff's office moves on to new cases.
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And this one is just getting colder and colder by
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the day. And so, you know, also these are more
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often than not open cases. So it's not something that
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you can just walk in there and see the whole
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book on it and all the investigative work that went
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into it. You're really, like you alluded to, more than anything,
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starting from scratch. Now, fortunately, in season one of Culpable,
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Christian's mother, Ray, was... just a warrior, a bulldog of sorts,
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as I referred to her. And she, you know, for
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years was like, I'm not going to give up on this.
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I'm going to get to the bottom of this. And so,
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you know, I had a leg up in a sense
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of that I knew some information going into it.
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But for different reasons.
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The authorities there did not have any interest opening up
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the doors anymore on that or working with us in
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any capacity. And that's still something I think all of
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us struggle with to this day. I know you just
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had some of that in your most recent season. I
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think a lot of them are still warming up to
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the idea of people like us coming in and trying
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to help them, essentially, at the end of the day.
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But then on the personal side, it's a different kind
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of struggle because I do want to have a personal connection.
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I do want to connect with the family and meet
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them on an emotional level. I've always been a natural person.
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you know, just empathizer. And so I have no problem
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making those connections. Where I struggle is, you know, it's
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sensitive material and they can't write these stories.
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These are our stories about their loved one.
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And so that balance is always a struggle. It's always
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a struggle of knowing what to say and how to
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best say it in a way that's, you know, caring
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enough and concerning of their emotions, but also getting the
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truth out there.
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What's actually the hardest part about it, genuinely?
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Or maybe even not even when you're doing it, but
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like afterwards and sort of like, you know, I was
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told by Mark Smerling, who did The Jinx six, seven
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years ago. And at the time, I didn't even fully
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get what he meant. He said, these stories never leave you.
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And I was like, right. I was like, what do
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you mean? He's like, they never leave you. He starts
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talking about cases he did 25 years ago. I was like,
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I still talk to those people. And I'm like, you're right.
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And like, I'd only been eight months into investigating Tara
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Grintz's disappearance.
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And I was like, I guess it's going to be
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like part of my life forever. What does that even mean?
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Right.
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But it's true.
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Yeah, it's very true. I can't really put it a
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better way than you just did. I mean, I think.
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Well, you should.
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I'm going to do my best. I mean, it's like.
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Yeah.
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I didn't know this going into it either.
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When I decided to do season one of Culpable, I
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just thought it was like talk to who needs to
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be talked to, figure out what you can figure out,
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write a story, record it.
249
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You're like, that guy didn't do it. I could do
250
00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:03.669
that shit.
251
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I underestimated it.
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You fucked around and found out.
253
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I fucked around and found out.
254
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Yeah, you're like, damn.
255
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And then I'm like, holy shit.
256
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He has trauma too, I bet.
257
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It is a long journey. an emotional journey.
258
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Um, I mean, I'm pretty sure I've shaved years off
259
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my own life, but again, it's not a pity party.
260
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You're right.
261
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I'm fortunate to be able to do this and I
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love doing this.
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Um, but man, it's a lot and you, and I
264
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didn't realize when I signed a contract to do that
265
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show that in a way I was signing a contract
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with the family of like, we're in this together forever, essentially. Um,
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and that's, that's really what it was. I mean, I just,
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I just, I just contacted Ray Andreacchio just about a
269
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month or so ago, and we kind of did a
270
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follow-up and put an episode out about it, and we're talking, like,
271
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what's new, and, you know, do we need to do
272
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some other follow-up, and this and that, and it's just,
273
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you know, we're talking about our families and stuff.
274
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It's not just about the victim. I mean, we're meeting
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on a more personal level.
276
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You look around and see other true crime podcasts, and
277
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they're mostly not about their own personal story about their
278
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dad living some double life, So what was your approach
279
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and the closeness that you had with that and how
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you would delicately, because there's a level of vulnerability there
281
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I can only imagine was kind of just weird and
282
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like maybe uncomfortable.
283
00:13:29.659 --> 00:13:32.090
A hundred percent. You know, like at first it's a
284
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story about my dad. And then as I'm recording and
285
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I'm asking myself questions and I'm contemplating and I'm mulling
286
00:13:38.629 --> 00:13:40.590
all this stuff over, I'm going, well, no, it's much
287
00:13:40.629 --> 00:13:42.970
more than that. It's a story about like what happened
288
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to my mom too. And it's also a story about
289
00:13:44.970 --> 00:13:47.289
what happened to my brother, which means it's a story
290
00:13:47.309 --> 00:13:49.529
about what happened to me. So it's like, I'm like
291
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going through all these mental like exercises and I'm trying
292
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to figure this out. And at a certain point I said,
293
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I have to put myself into this story. You kind
294
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of just have to be completely shameless and like get
295
00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.139
rid of the ego. And like, if you, if like,
296
00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:07.019
you know, there are times when I felt like I
297
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.419
was really weak and I made weak decisions because I
298
00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:12.320
was young and immature and You almost have to take
299
00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:14.879
a step back and I become a character in my
300
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:17.580
own story, but I'm not that character. I am that character,
301
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:19.559
but I have to treat it like I'm the director
302
00:14:19.779 --> 00:14:20.399
of another family.
303
00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:21.639
It's not you today. It's a part of how you
304
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:22.049
got here.
305
00:14:22.110 --> 00:14:25.450
Right. So it's a weird exercise, and it was hard
306
00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:28.269
at first or awkward at first, but over time it
307
00:14:28.309 --> 00:14:31.120
becomes second nature. And then by the end of it,
308
00:14:31.129 --> 00:14:34.799
it's just like I don't care at all. I completely
309
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:37.299
wear my heart on my sleeve. I will say exactly
310
00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:39.710
what I'm thinking. I don't care if you don't like me.
311
00:14:39.909 --> 00:14:42.490
But in contrast to what you guys do, I'm not
312
00:14:42.529 --> 00:14:45.889
treating it like a procedural crime that I have to solve.
313
00:14:46.250 --> 00:14:49.960
I'm treating it like I am telling a very deep,
314
00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:53.159
intense story with a million different layers, and I have
315
00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:55.159
to do it, and I have to do it authentically,
316
00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:56.700
and I have to do it in a way that
317
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is going to make the family proud. That family just
318
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:00.399
happens to be my family.
319
00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:20.730
The human curiosity is at the core like a relatable thing. Oh,
320
00:15:20.750 --> 00:15:24.090
for sure. Absolutely. And that manifests in different ways.
321
00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:28.139
So for you, Dennis, like how do you creatively keep
322
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:32.340
going when it already is a lot of pressure from a.
323
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:34.960
Cold case standpoint?
324
00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:38.049
And there's people saying, you suck, you got it wrong.
325
00:15:38.090 --> 00:15:39.429
And the family is like, I don't know if you're right.
326
00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:41.009
And the law enforcement is like, don't come over here.
327
00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:41.629
Yeah.
328
00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:46.000
Well, I think ultimately it's just enjoying what you do
329
00:15:46.070 --> 00:15:47.909
and being passionate about it. I mean, like you said,
330
00:15:48.830 --> 00:15:52.190
none of us really have the qualifications, you could say,
331
00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:53.899
to be in here, whatever those qualifications are.
332
00:15:53.909 --> 00:15:57.009
Some of us don't. I don't. Kyle. I definitely don't.
333
00:15:57.909 --> 00:15:58.409
No, for sure.
334
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.039
If hair were to be a qualification, you do. Oh, yeah.
335
00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:04.220
I have a PhD.
336
00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:06.779
You do. It looks so real.
337
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:08.580
It's a great rug.
338
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.779
It looks very real. It's a great rug.
339
00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:10.610
I got a great rug guy.
340
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.480
But, yeah, just, you know, being passionate about it.
341
00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.019
That's why I love making connections with families is I
342
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:20.039
think that kind of helps keep you going, making a
343
00:16:20.059 --> 00:16:24.389
very deep connection with the victim and knowing, like, I'm
344
00:16:24.450 --> 00:16:26.309
in this for the long haul, no matter how hard
345
00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:29.490
it gets. But, you know, I'm kind of like, I
346
00:16:29.529 --> 00:16:31.129
think if you peeled back all of our layers, I'm
347
00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:33.389
sure there's something there that points to why we're here.
348
00:16:33.450 --> 00:16:36.750
I mean, as a college dropout, I probably shouldn't be here,
349
00:16:36.830 --> 00:16:39.549
but at the same time, like, I was, as a kid, I...
350
00:16:40.340 --> 00:16:43.259
I did watch survivor. I was not filming anybody. Um,
351
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.700
but I did like to write short stories for fun,
352
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.740
you know? And so I always had, uh, kind of
353
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.419
a creative itch, I guess you could say as a writer, uh,
354
00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.529
for whatever reason, um, I did not pursue that as
355
00:16:56.570 --> 00:16:59.129
a career in any sort of way. And, um, you know,
356
00:16:59.289 --> 00:17:01.970
but it worked out nonetheless, I guess you could say. Um,
357
00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:04.069
so yeah, but I think ultimately it's like you said,
358
00:17:04.109 --> 00:17:07.279
making something that you would want to listen to, because
359
00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:10.500
as you know, having made it yourself, and I listened
360
00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:13.460
to it as a fan, what, seven years ago, whatever
361
00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.400
it was, you clearly didn't sound like you knew what
362
00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:17.160
the hell you were doing.
363
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:18.339
Clearly.
364
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:19.299
Clearly.
365
00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:20.960
How clearly was that to you?
366
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.460
It sounded like you were walking around with a Zoom recorder.
367
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.220
I'm going to do exactly what that guy did.
368
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.880
It sounded like you were walking around with a Zoom recorder,
369
00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:31.049
walking up to people saying, hey, do you know anything
370
00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:31.490
about this?
371
00:17:31.769 --> 00:17:33.410
That was like 25% of it.
372
00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:37.130
But at the same time, it made it seem.
373
00:17:38.009 --> 00:17:41.130
attainable and also made it made me realize like damn
374
00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:44.269
you can you can convey a lot and you can
375
00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.390
tell a really compelling story by just having your heart
376
00:17:47.450 --> 00:17:51.069
in it and uh and and through audio only and
377
00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:53.750
that amazed me as somebody who was always fascinated with
378
00:17:53.789 --> 00:17:58.250
watching true crime and growing up watching shows like dateline
379
00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:00.529
2020 and watching every documentary that was out there to
380
00:18:00.569 --> 00:18:03.089
learn that there was this medium where it had no
381
00:18:03.170 --> 00:18:05.630
visual representation but yet you could feel like you were
382
00:18:05.670 --> 00:18:07.900
in a movie was like well damn I want to
383
00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:10.279
do that that sounds really cool and easier honestly like
384
00:18:10.299 --> 00:18:11.960
I don't know how to work a camera that would
385
00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:13.559
be a whole nother thing to try to learn so
386
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.779
yeah um so you know I just try to master
387
00:18:15.819 --> 00:18:18.480
that and uh you know keep my heart in it
388
00:18:18.579 --> 00:18:19.799
and until the end with the stories I.
389
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:24.640
Tell in the future going forward in any other projects
390
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.180
you do how are you approaching it differently or what
391
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.819
have you learned and what do you want to bring
392
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.509
forward for your own for your own work in this.
393
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.680
Space Doing different seasons of Culpable means you can pick
394
00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:38.940
a different case each time, and with that opens the
395
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.140
door to all different possibilities. This newest season of Culpable
396
00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:46.799
is very different in that right when I started to
397
00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:52.690
produce it, some events happened, and I obtained the case
398
00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:55.190
file to this case, and beyond that there was all
399
00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:58.250
these different recordings and stuff from way back in 1998,
400
00:18:58.250 --> 00:19:01.240
which has been really cool. to utilize and work with
401
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:05.289
and was something very different than I did in past seasons. So,
402
00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:07.190
I mean, I think in some ways, like each story
403
00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:10.549
just being different, each victim being different, each family being different,
404
00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:13.369
each expert you talk to, like it opens possibilities, like
405
00:19:13.410 --> 00:19:16.450
different creative avenues. Cause I'm like you as a creative,
406
00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:17.890
like you definitely don't ever want to get stuck in
407
00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:20.660
the lane. or feel like you're just doing the same
408
00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:22.539
thing over and over and over. It drives me nuts.
409
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.960
You also want to look like you're doing your best still, right?
410
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.900
Yeah, just coming up with new things. Not getting lazy.
411
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.779
Yeah, complacent with more of these. For sure. It's like,
412
00:19:31.819 --> 00:19:33.359
that's not what this is, right?
413
00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:35.869
And that's why also deep down, I also would like
414
00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:38.589
to break out at some point and try something different.
415
00:19:39.089 --> 00:19:41.849
I messaged you when High Strings came out and was like, man.
416
00:19:41.869 --> 00:19:43.910
You were like, take me on a UFO ride.
417
00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:44.230
Please.
418
00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:49.700
Like yeah all right it didn't it didn't sound quite
419
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.839
as emotionally exhausting you know what i mean like it's
420
00:19:51.859 --> 00:19:53.740
just like it's different that is very true and it
421
00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:55.440
just just you know so i think at some point
422
00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:57.140
too i'd like to try to to branch out and
423
00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:59.839
do some some different types of projects like.
424
00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.940
That and you should i think that like your storytelling
425
00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:07.160
like skill set is could live in so many different
426
00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.039
lanes and And I think that's what it takes sometimes
427
00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:14.480
to even, like, get this sort of energy back where, like,
428
00:20:14.539 --> 00:20:16.240
I've gone through, like, whoa, man, I have to, like,
429
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:22.410
heal after, like, being in the trenches with something.
430
00:20:22.430 --> 00:20:23.289
I was going to say, do you have to, like,
431
00:20:23.309 --> 00:20:25.069
take a vacation after you finish the season?
432
00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:28.569
It's not. It's, like, it kind of just builds up, right? Yeah.
433
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.430
I don't even realize it's gotten so bad. Who am I?
434
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:34.500
I don't even remember anymore right now. The bags under
435
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:36.359
the eyes is always the dead giveaway. When you start
436
00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:38.369
seeing those when you look in the mirror, it's like,
437
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:39.410
that's not good.
438
00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:45.109
You're like, but I did sleep. I know. It's just a...
439
00:20:46.009 --> 00:20:48.950
You learn that through time. And you've got to.
440
00:20:49.309 --> 00:20:52.210
Take care of yourself to be able to do something,
441
00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:55.920
especially about anyone else.
442
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:56.599
Yeah, yeah.
443
00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.220
Keeping that.
444
00:20:57.220 --> 00:20:59.849
100%. You've got to be on your game Otherwise, you're
445
00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:01.660
going to do a disservice to whatever the story is.
446
00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:03.670
Right, or you shouldn't be doing this. Take a break.
447
00:21:03.690 --> 00:21:05.650
There's a pressure there. For sure.
448
00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:08.150
That's another thing, too. Some of the stuff, I don't
449
00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:10.349
know if you've done this in years, but you were
450
00:21:10.369 --> 00:21:13.210
doing stuff that was live. You were editing, and then
451
00:21:14.150 --> 00:21:17.119
the next episode's not done yet, but it's releasing next week.
452
00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:18.119
That's got to be insane.
453
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.119
It's important to check yourself, balance yourself.
454
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.200
To make sure you're, you're doing it the right way.
455
00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:25.839
You know what I mean?
456
00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:26.180
Yeah.
457
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:27.940
I mean, there's a rule I learned in Hollywood a
458
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.019
long time ago is nobody knows what they're doing and
459
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:32.519
nobody knows what they're talking about, no matter how successful.
460
00:21:32.539 --> 00:21:35.099
And I think to some degree that's extremely true.
461
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:35.579
Right.
462
00:21:35.859 --> 00:21:37.799
You know, and so you just, you can't beat yourself
463
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:39.549
up if you're trying to do your own thing. You
464
00:21:39.569 --> 00:21:41.140
just got to go and do it and believe in
465
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:44.069
yourself and just persistence is key and just keep cranking
466
00:21:44.089 --> 00:21:46.990
away and like, it'll just start to make sense and
467
00:21:47.009 --> 00:21:49.130
it'll just start to get good. If it's not good yet,
468
00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:51.309
it will if you just keep working at it. And
469
00:21:51.329 --> 00:21:53.190
I think That's what makes us a little crazy. You
470
00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:54.900
kind of have to be a little crazy to do it. Yeah.
471
00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:59.000
A little bit. Cause like not everyone's going to be like, yes, correct.
472
00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:00.119
Right.
473
00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:01.359
Like there's a period of time where I was like,
474
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.400
I don't, I don't get what he's doing to be honest.
475
00:22:03.859 --> 00:22:05.440
And you're like, you got to push through that part
476
00:22:05.779 --> 00:22:07.859
and you're like, damn, maybe they're right. I shouldn't be
477
00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:09.039
doing any of this shit. Yeah.
478
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:09.380
Right.
479
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.059
And the, the like, And that applies with anything.
480
00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:15.900
But also, no, fuck those people because you believe in yourself.
481
00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:17.089
So just do what you want to do.
482
00:22:17.329 --> 00:22:19.079
That's true. So don't be influenced by that. I'm like, wow,
483
00:22:19.089 --> 00:22:22.829
this guy just doesn't care about anybody. Just fuck us. Yeah. Really?
484
00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:23.009
Yeah.
485
00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:24.309
He's so self-centered.
486
00:22:24.329 --> 00:22:25.829
I just realized I'm swearing.
487
00:22:25.529 --> 00:22:26.410
A lot in this panel.
488
00:22:26.450 --> 00:22:27.089
I apologize.
489
00:22:27.109 --> 00:22:28.250
Dude, it's fucking fine.
490
00:22:28.269 --> 00:22:29.750
Sorry. I'm from Chicago.
491
00:22:29.769 --> 00:22:33.930
Don't even fucking worry about it, bro. This is fucking GrimeCon, dude.
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Thank you guys for sitting here and listening to us
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talk shit for a little while. This has been really enjoyable.
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Hopefully you guys were at least mildly entertained or you
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00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:47.799
learned something or at least you're like, okay, I'm never
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00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.099
fucking with those guys again.
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I don't know. Thanks for joining us. Cheers, y'all. Thanks
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00:22:57.269 --> 00:22:57.769
for listening.
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00:22:58.569 --> 00:23:02.210
This conversation was live from CrimeCon with Kyle Tequila and
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00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:05.410
Dennis Cooper. If you haven't already, be sure to check
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00:23:05.450 --> 00:23:08.880
out Crook County in the new season of Culpable. And
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00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.859
stay tuned for some exciting new shows coming very soon
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00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:12.460
from Tenderfoot.
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Hey, it's Payne Lindsey here.
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A few months ago, live from the Tenderfoot stage at CrimeCon,
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I got a chance to sit down and talk to
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Kyle Tequila, host of Crook.
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County, and Dennis Cooper, the host of Culpable. We discussed
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both of.
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Their true crime podcasts, but also dove a lot deeper
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into how these shows are actually made. I hope you
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enjoy my conversation with these two amazing podcasters. These guys
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are true crime podcasters like me. They have their own
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investigations and stories that they've told. I'm huge fans of
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theirs and I've known them for a long time. I
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think we all have kind of our own unique experience
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in this space and also like a lot of similarities.
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And I just kind of want to just rip it
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open with, I'll start with you, Kyle. For those who
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don't know, what is this.
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Just the logline of your story?
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Your podcast and you came to us years ago and
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I was like, okay, holy shit, we're making a podcast
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about this.
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But for those who don't know, tell them what the
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premise is. Yeah.
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Crook County is the story of my dad who lived
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a secret double life as a Chicago mafia hit man.
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And the whole family, including myself and my mother, didn't
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know about it. He kept it secret from all of
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us for 30 something years. And I found out when
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I was like 29 that I was already married. I
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was already planning on having a kid. And now I
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have this bombshell dropped in my lap. So what am
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I supposed to do with this information? And so it
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took me years to kind of digest all of that.
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And then I started recording just for posterity, just for
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family archives. And then as time went on and the
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more footage I got of him, it just started to
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come together. Like it just needed to be something bigger
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than just a family thing. It needed to be a show.
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So.
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I've watched The Sopranos and stuff like that. I mean,
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I like Goodfellas. I like mafia-style movies. I don't know
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what it's like for it to be a true story.
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Because a part of me is like, that's badass. But
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that's definitely not what you thought, correct?
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Well, what's weird is I still don't know what it's like.
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Okay.
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Because I grew up with, like, he was just a
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firefighter paramedic in my eyes. Like, we had no idea.
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So we lived, like, normal, boring, suburban.
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Lives, right?
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It wasn't like we knew that he was this big
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mafia hitman growing up and he had a reputation around
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town and everyone knew we were like mafia kids. That's
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not how it was at all. We just thought we
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were a regular family. So it's weird knowing now that
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that whole part of my life was kind of like
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a lie and that there was always danger around every corner.
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If he did something, he fucked up, that could have
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come back on us, but we had no idea. So
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that's crazy to think about.
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What was your first reaction and where have you settled this?
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My first reaction was you're full of shit. Like, are
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you insane? Have you lost your mind? Now, mind you,
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he was also like, I put him through rehab and
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I got him clean. So he was a heroin addict.
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So I'm like, is this some like heroin, like fever dream?
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Like, what are you talking about? What happened in that
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rehab I put you in? Yeah, exactly.
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So, yeah, it wasn't an ayahuasca trip, was it?
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Right.
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So, but over time, as he started telling me more
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and more of the story and it became this huge thing.
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like you know full of details and full of life
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and you know i'm starting to verify things with people
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that he grew up with and other family members who
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didn't know but kind of knew that he had like
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a dark side and it all started to make sense
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like oh this actually is real i don't know how
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much is real but it's real like there's enough there
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that that's real so i just started diving in and
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doing the work and eventually this we got crook county
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out of the deal.
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So to sum it up, at this point in time,
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how do you feel about it, actually? Are you mad?
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You know, if he wasn't such a fuck-up, pardon my French,
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and it didn't, like, the mafia thing didn't destroy the family.
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His heroin addiction destroyed the family.
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Okay.
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So I'm pissed that he's a degenerate heroin addict. And
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that the dynamic of our family is, like, gone because.
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Is that associated with the double life he was living?
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Well, I mean, he was always, like, I mean, he's
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around narcotics and cocaine and booze all the time. And he's,
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you know, it's just, I can't imagine the stress and
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guilt you could feel of being someone who's killed people,
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multiple people. Like, that had to weigh on him.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so you self-medicate, right? But it got really bad
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because as a firefighter, he was in a really bad accident,
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and then they gave him all these painkillers to deal
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with the surgeries. And that's when everything escalated as far
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as his addiction is concerned. And that's like when he
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lost control. You got the legal form first, and then
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it just became an absolute.
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Exactly.
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Then you had to hit the streets after they cut
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him off. So it's like, I'm more mad that that happened.
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But now it's like, I guess I'm grateful that we
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didn't get the mafia blowback as a kid. Like, I'm
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grateful that whatever he did didn't come back on us.
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So it's a weird, full of very contracting, you know, emotions.
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You know, I've covered dozens of stories, but they've never
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been about, you know, my family, right?
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Yeah, sure.
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And so, like, that's got to be a completely different beast.
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And so I think that, one, kudos to you for.
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I mean, I'm sure maybe it's even therapeutic in some
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weird way to sort of like put it down and like,
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I don't know, is it a processing part of that?
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I mean, it took me years to make it for
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a reason.
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Yeah.
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Because I needed that time to process it. And because
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the whole time I'm also investigating, I'm learning new information,
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getting new stories out of him. I'm, you know, interviewing people.
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I'm getting, you know, getting more raw emotions from people.
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And so it took a long time to, you know,
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I'm like editing and putting a story together and also
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processing things at the same time. Then I take a break.
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then I edit a little bit and then I process
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and I take a break. And so, but yeah, now
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that it's all done, it's extremely cathartic. Like I feel
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like that monkey's off my back now and it's no
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longer my burden like it was. Like now it's like
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out into the world and now it's like a gift,
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like my gift to other people to maybe listen and
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maybe learn from or maybe gain some inspiration or hope
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or whatever.
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I hope you're enjoying this episode live from CrimeCon. Want
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00:06:32.579 --> 00:06:34.939
to get a head start on CrimeCon 2026 in Vegas?
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00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:37.939
Right now, you can save 10% on your tickets with
142
00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:41.699
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00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:45.050
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00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:45.959
Don't wait.
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00:06:46.310 --> 00:06:48.970
Lock in your spot now for the ultimate true crime experience.
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00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:51.829
And we'll see you in Las Vegas next May. Now
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00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:52.370
back to the show.
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Let's start with just a couple of season one, like
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you getting into true crime podcasting, just that journey.
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Yeah, so not a personal story so much, you know,
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working with strangers on the contrary. But as you know,
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I mean, you were a big inspiration for me. I
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just pretty much heard what you did and thought I
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could probably steal that formula.
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You're like, yeah, that guy, I can do better than
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that guy.
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Yeah, you know, so.
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And he did.
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And he absolutely did. That's what I've been saying. I've
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been trying to tell you guys. But, yeah, no, I just,
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funny enough, I never intended on doing this.
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It was just something that, you know, I thought was
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really cool, and I was inspired by what you did
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and thought maybe I could. And, you know, to shorten
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a long story, I learned about Christian Andracchio's case at
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CrimeCon of all places, which is why I always love
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coming to this. I always love seeing so many people
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out here and seeing these people, you know, you know,
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pass out their loved ones flyers, just trying to get
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attention on it because, you know, ultimately at the end
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of the day you want to solve these cases that
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you follow, but a big part of it too is
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just getting them the attention that they need and deserve.
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And so it was.
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2018 CrimeCon Nashville and got a flyer from one of
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his family members about his case and contacted Ray Andreacchio
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and the rest is history from there.
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Telling the story of an unsolved case and you're basically
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trying to pick up where investigators left off and move
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the needle. Tell me from your perspective what that's actually like.
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Well, it's tough.
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I mean, there's so many layers to it. You know,
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just to go back to the start of your question
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about picking up the pieces where they've been left off,
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you know, oftentimes that's the problem with these cases. That's
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why they remain unsolved is because that attention dies off.
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The police department or sheriff's office moves on to new cases.
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And this one is just getting colder and colder by
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the day. And so, you know, also these are more
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often than not open cases. So it's not something that
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you can just walk in there and see the whole
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book on it and all the investigative work that went
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into it. You're really, like you alluded to, more than anything,
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starting from scratch. Now, fortunately, in season one of Culpable,
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Christian's mother, Ray, was... just a warrior, a bulldog of sorts,
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as I referred to her. And she, you know, for
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years was like, I'm not going to give up on this.
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I'm going to get to the bottom of this. And so,
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you know, I had a leg up in a sense
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of that I knew some information going into it.
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But for different reasons.
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The authorities there did not have any interest opening up
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the doors anymore on that or working with us in
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any capacity. And that's still something I think all of
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us struggle with to this day. I know you just
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had some of that in your most recent season. I
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think a lot of them are still warming up to
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the idea of people like us coming in and trying
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to help them, essentially, at the end of the day.
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But then on the personal side, it's a different kind
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of struggle because I do want to have a personal connection.
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I do want to connect with the family and meet
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them on an emotional level. I've always been a natural person.
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you know, just empathizer. And so I have no problem
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making those connections. Where I struggle is, you know, it's
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sensitive material and they can't write these stories.
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These are our stories about their loved one.
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And so that balance is always a struggle. It's always
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a struggle of knowing what to say and how to
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best say it in a way that's, you know, caring
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enough and concerning of their emotions, but also getting the
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truth out there.
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What's actually the hardest part about it, genuinely?
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Or maybe even not even when you're doing it, but
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like afterwards and sort of like, you know, I was
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told by Mark Smerling, who did The Jinx six, seven
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years ago. And at the time, I didn't even fully
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get what he meant. He said, these stories never leave you.
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And I was like, right. I was like, what do
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you mean? He's like, they never leave you. He starts
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talking about cases he did 25 years ago. I was like,
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I still talk to those people. And I'm like, you're right.
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And like, I'd only been eight months into investigating Tara
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Grintz's disappearance.
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And I was like, I guess it's going to be
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like part of my life forever. What does that even mean?
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Right.
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But it's true.
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Yeah, it's very true. I can't really put it a
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better way than you just did. I mean, I think.
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Well, you should.
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I'm going to do my best. I mean, it's like.
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Yeah.
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I didn't know this going into it either.
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When I decided to do season one of Culpable, I
246
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just thought it was like talk to who needs to
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be talked to, figure out what you can figure out,
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write a story, record it.
249
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You're like, that guy didn't do it. I could do
250
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that shit.
251
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I underestimated it.
252
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You fucked around and found out.
253
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I fucked around and found out.
254
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Yeah, you're like, damn.
255
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And then I'm like, holy shit.
256
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He has trauma too, I bet.
257
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It is a long journey. an emotional journey.
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Um, I mean, I'm pretty sure I've shaved years off
259
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my own life, but again, it's not a pity party.
260
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You're right.
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I'm fortunate to be able to do this and I
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love doing this.
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Um, but man, it's a lot and you, and I
264
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didn't realize when I signed a contract to do that
265
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show that in a way I was signing a contract
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with the family of like, we're in this together forever, essentially. Um,
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and that's, that's really what it was. I mean, I just,
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I just, I just contacted Ray Andreacchio just about a
269
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month or so ago, and we kind of did a
270
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follow-up and put an episode out about it, and we're talking, like,
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what's new, and, you know, do we need to do
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some other follow-up, and this and that, and it's just,
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you know, we're talking about our families and stuff.
274
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It's not just about the victim. I mean, we're meeting
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on a more personal level.
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You look around and see other true crime podcasts, and
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they're mostly not about their own personal story about their
278
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dad living some double life, So what was your approach
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and the closeness that you had with that and how
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you would delicately, because there's a level of vulnerability there
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I can only imagine was kind of just weird and
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like maybe uncomfortable.
283
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A hundred percent. You know, like at first it's a
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story about my dad. And then as I'm recording and
285
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I'm asking myself questions and I'm contemplating and I'm mulling
286
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all this stuff over, I'm going, well, no, it's much
287
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more than that. It's a story about like what happened
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to my mom too. And it's also a story about
289
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what happened to my brother, which means it's a story
290
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about what happened to me. So it's like, I'm like
291
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going through all these mental like exercises and I'm trying
292
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to figure this out. And at a certain point I said,
293
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I have to put myself into this story. You kind
294
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of just have to be completely shameless and like get
295
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rid of the ego. And like, if you, if like,
296
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you know, there are times when I felt like I
297
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was really weak and I made weak decisions because I
298
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was young and immature and You almost have to take
299
00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:14.879
a step back and I become a character in my
300
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own story, but I'm not that character. I am that character,
301
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but I have to treat it like I'm the director
302
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of another family.
303
00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:21.639
It's not you today. It's a part of how you
304
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got here.
305
00:14:22.110 --> 00:14:25.450
Right. So it's a weird exercise, and it was hard
306
00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:28.269
at first or awkward at first, but over time it
307
00:14:28.309 --> 00:14:31.120
becomes second nature. And then by the end of it,
308
00:14:31.129 --> 00:14:34.799
it's just like I don't care at all. I completely
309
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:37.299
wear my heart on my sleeve. I will say exactly
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what I'm thinking. I don't care if you don't like me.
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But in contrast to what you guys do, I'm not
312
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treating it like a procedural crime that I have to solve.
313
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I'm treating it like I am telling a very deep,
314
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intense story with a million different layers, and I have
315
00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:55.159
to do it, and I have to do it authentically,
316
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and I have to do it in a way that
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is going to make the family proud. That family just
318
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happens to be my family.
319
00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:20.730
The human curiosity is at the core like a relatable thing. Oh,
320
00:15:20.750 --> 00:15:24.090
for sure. Absolutely. And that manifests in different ways.
321
00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:28.139
So for you, Dennis, like how do you creatively keep
322
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going when it already is a lot of pressure from a.
323
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:34.960
Cold case standpoint?
324
00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:38.049
And there's people saying, you suck, you got it wrong.
325
00:15:38.090 --> 00:15:39.429
And the family is like, I don't know if you're right.
326
00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:41.009
And the law enforcement is like, don't come over here.
327
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Yeah.
328
00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:46.000
Well, I think ultimately it's just enjoying what you do
329
00:15:46.070 --> 00:15:47.909
and being passionate about it. I mean, like you said,
330
00:15:48.830 --> 00:15:52.190
none of us really have the qualifications, you could say,
331
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to be in here, whatever those qualifications are.
332
00:15:53.909 --> 00:15:57.009
Some of us don't. I don't. Kyle. I definitely don't.
333
00:15:57.909 --> 00:15:58.409
No, for sure.
334
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.039
If hair were to be a qualification, you do. Oh, yeah.
335
00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:04.220
I have a PhD.
336
00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:06.779
You do. It looks so real.
337
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:08.580
It's a great rug.
338
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.779
It looks very real. It's a great rug.
339
00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:10.610
I got a great rug guy.
340
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.480
But, yeah, just, you know, being passionate about it.
341
00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.019
That's why I love making connections with families is I
342
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:20.039
think that kind of helps keep you going, making a
343
00:16:20.059 --> 00:16:24.389
very deep connection with the victim and knowing, like, I'm
344
00:16:24.450 --> 00:16:26.309
in this for the long haul, no matter how hard
345
00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:29.490
it gets. But, you know, I'm kind of like, I
346
00:16:29.529 --> 00:16:31.129
think if you peeled back all of our layers, I'm
347
00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:33.389
sure there's something there that points to why we're here.
348
00:16:33.450 --> 00:16:36.750
I mean, as a college dropout, I probably shouldn't be here,
349
00:16:36.830 --> 00:16:39.549
but at the same time, like, I was, as a kid, I...
350
00:16:40.340 --> 00:16:43.259
I did watch survivor. I was not filming anybody. Um,
351
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.700
but I did like to write short stories for fun,
352
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.740
you know? And so I always had, uh, kind of
353
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.419
a creative itch, I guess you could say as a writer, uh,
354
00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.529
for whatever reason, um, I did not pursue that as
355
00:16:56.570 --> 00:16:59.129
a career in any sort of way. And, um, you know,
356
00:16:59.289 --> 00:17:01.970
but it worked out nonetheless, I guess you could say. Um,
357
00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:04.069
so yeah, but I think ultimately it's like you said,
358
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making something that you would want to listen to, because
359
00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:10.500
as you know, having made it yourself, and I listened
360
00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:13.460
to it as a fan, what, seven years ago, whatever
361
00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.400
it was, you clearly didn't sound like you knew what
362
00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:17.160
the hell you were doing.
363
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:18.339
Clearly.
364
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:19.299
Clearly.
365
00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:20.960
How clearly was that to you?
366
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.460
It sounded like you were walking around with a Zoom recorder.
367
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.220
I'm going to do exactly what that guy did.
368
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.880
It sounded like you were walking around with a Zoom recorder,
369
00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:31.049
walking up to people saying, hey, do you know anything
370
00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:31.490
about this?
371
00:17:31.769 --> 00:17:33.410
That was like 25% of it.
372
00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:37.130
But at the same time, it made it seem.
373
00:17:38.009 --> 00:17:41.130
attainable and also made it made me realize like damn
374
00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:44.269
you can you can convey a lot and you can
375
00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.390
tell a really compelling story by just having your heart
376
00:17:47.450 --> 00:17:51.069
in it and uh and and through audio only and
377
00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:53.750
that amazed me as somebody who was always fascinated with
378
00:17:53.789 --> 00:17:58.250
watching true crime and growing up watching shows like dateline
379
00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:00.529
2020 and watching every documentary that was out there to
380
00:18:00.569 --> 00:18:03.089
learn that there was this medium where it had no
381
00:18:03.170 --> 00:18:05.630
visual representation but yet you could feel like you were
382
00:18:05.670 --> 00:18:07.900
in a movie was like well damn I want to
383
00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:10.279
do that that sounds really cool and easier honestly like
384
00:18:10.299 --> 00:18:11.960
I don't know how to work a camera that would
385
00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:13.559
be a whole nother thing to try to learn so
386
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.779
yeah um so you know I just try to master
387
00:18:15.819 --> 00:18:18.480
that and uh you know keep my heart in it
388
00:18:18.579 --> 00:18:19.799
and until the end with the stories I.
389
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:24.640
Tell in the future going forward in any other projects
390
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.180
you do how are you approaching it differently or what
391
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.819
have you learned and what do you want to bring
392
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.509
forward for your own for your own work in this.
393
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.680
Space Doing different seasons of Culpable means you can pick
394
00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:38.940
a different case each time, and with that opens the
395
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.140
door to all different possibilities. This newest season of Culpable
396
00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:46.799
is very different in that right when I started to
397
00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:52.690
produce it, some events happened, and I obtained the case
398
00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:55.190
file to this case, and beyond that there was all
399
00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:58.250
these different recordings and stuff from way back in 1998,
400
00:18:58.250 --> 00:19:01.240
which has been really cool. to utilize and work with
401
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:05.289
and was something very different than I did in past seasons. So,
402
00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:07.190
I mean, I think in some ways, like each story
403
00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:10.549
just being different, each victim being different, each family being different,
404
00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:13.369
each expert you talk to, like it opens possibilities, like
405
00:19:13.410 --> 00:19:16.450
different creative avenues. Cause I'm like you as a creative,
406
00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:17.890
like you definitely don't ever want to get stuck in
407
00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:20.660
the lane. or feel like you're just doing the same
408
00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:22.539
thing over and over and over. It drives me nuts.
409
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.960
You also want to look like you're doing your best still, right?
410
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.900
Yeah, just coming up with new things. Not getting lazy.
411
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.779
Yeah, complacent with more of these. For sure. It's like,
412
00:19:31.819 --> 00:19:33.359
that's not what this is, right?
413
00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:35.869
And that's why also deep down, I also would like
414
00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:38.589
to break out at some point and try something different.
415
00:19:39.089 --> 00:19:41.849
I messaged you when High Strings came out and was like, man.
416
00:19:41.869 --> 00:19:43.910
You were like, take me on a UFO ride.
417
00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:44.230
Please.
418
00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:49.700
Like yeah all right it didn't it didn't sound quite
419
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.839
as emotionally exhausting you know what i mean like it's
420
00:19:51.859 --> 00:19:53.740
just like it's different that is very true and it
421
00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:55.440
just just you know so i think at some point
422
00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:57.140
too i'd like to try to to branch out and
423
00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:59.839
do some some different types of projects like.
424
00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.940
That and you should i think that like your storytelling
425
00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:07.160
like skill set is could live in so many different
426
00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.039
lanes and And I think that's what it takes sometimes
427
00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:14.480
to even, like, get this sort of energy back where, like,
428
00:20:14.539 --> 00:20:16.240
I've gone through, like, whoa, man, I have to, like,
429
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:22.410
heal after, like, being in the trenches with something.
430
00:20:22.430 --> 00:20:23.289
I was going to say, do you have to, like,
431
00:20:23.309 --> 00:20:25.069
take a vacation after you finish the season?
432
00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:28.569
It's not. It's, like, it kind of just builds up, right? Yeah.
433
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.430
I don't even realize it's gotten so bad. Who am I?
434
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:34.500
I don't even remember anymore right now. The bags under
435
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:36.359
the eyes is always the dead giveaway. When you start
436
00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:38.369
seeing those when you look in the mirror, it's like,
437
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:39.410
that's not good.
438
00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:45.109
You're like, but I did sleep. I know. It's just a...
439
00:20:46.009 --> 00:20:48.950
You learn that through time. And you've got to.
440
00:20:49.309 --> 00:20:52.210
Take care of yourself to be able to do something,
441
00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:55.920
especially about anyone else.
442
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:56.599
Yeah, yeah.
443
00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.220
Keeping that.
444
00:20:57.220 --> 00:20:59.849
100%. You've got to be on your game Otherwise, you're
445
00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:01.660
going to do a disservice to whatever the story is.
446
00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:03.670
Right, or you shouldn't be doing this. Take a break.
447
00:21:03.690 --> 00:21:05.650
There's a pressure there. For sure.
448
00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:08.150
That's another thing, too. Some of the stuff, I don't
449
00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:10.349
know if you've done this in years, but you were
450
00:21:10.369 --> 00:21:13.210
doing stuff that was live. You were editing, and then
451
00:21:14.150 --> 00:21:17.119
the next episode's not done yet, but it's releasing next week.
452
00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:18.119
That's got to be insane.
453
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.119
It's important to check yourself, balance yourself.
454
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.200
To make sure you're, you're doing it the right way.
455
00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:25.839
You know what I mean?
456
00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:26.180
Yeah.
457
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:27.940
I mean, there's a rule I learned in Hollywood a
458
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.019
long time ago is nobody knows what they're doing and
459
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:32.519
nobody knows what they're talking about, no matter how successful.
460
00:21:32.539 --> 00:21:35.099
And I think to some degree that's extremely true.
461
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:35.579
Right.
462
00:21:35.859 --> 00:21:37.799
You know, and so you just, you can't beat yourself
463
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:39.549
up if you're trying to do your own thing. You
464
00:21:39.569 --> 00:21:41.140
just got to go and do it and believe in
465
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:44.069
yourself and just persistence is key and just keep cranking
466
00:21:44.089 --> 00:21:46.990
away and like, it'll just start to make sense and
467
00:21:47.009 --> 00:21:49.130
it'll just start to get good. If it's not good yet,
468
00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:51.309
it will if you just keep working at it. And
469
00:21:51.329 --> 00:21:53.190
I think That's what makes us a little crazy. You
470
00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:54.900
kind of have to be a little crazy to do it. Yeah.
471
00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:59.000
A little bit. Cause like not everyone's going to be like, yes, correct.
472
00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:00.119
Right.
473
00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:01.359
Like there's a period of time where I was like,
474
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.400
I don't, I don't get what he's doing to be honest.
475
00:22:03.859 --> 00:22:05.440
And you're like, you got to push through that part
476
00:22:05.779 --> 00:22:07.859
and you're like, damn, maybe they're right. I shouldn't be
477
00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:09.039
doing any of this shit. Yeah.
478
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:09.380
Right.
479
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.059
And the, the like, And that applies with anything.
480
00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:15.900
But also, no, fuck those people because you believe in yourself.
481
00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:17.089
So just do what you want to do.
482
00:22:17.329 --> 00:22:19.079
That's true. So don't be influenced by that. I'm like, wow,
483
00:22:19.089 --> 00:22:22.829
this guy just doesn't care about anybody. Just fuck us. Yeah. Really?
484
00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:23.009
Yeah.
485
00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:24.309
He's so self-centered.
486
00:22:24.329 --> 00:22:25.829
I just realized I'm swearing.
487
00:22:25.529 --> 00:22:26.410
A lot in this panel.
488
00:22:26.450 --> 00:22:27.089
I apologize.
489
00:22:27.109 --> 00:22:28.250
Dude, it's fucking fine.
490
00:22:28.269 --> 00:22:29.750
Sorry. I'm from Chicago.
491
00:22:29.769 --> 00:22:33.930
Don't even fucking worry about it, bro. This is fucking GrimeCon, dude.
492
00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:37.809
Thank you guys for sitting here and listening to us
493
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:41.799
talk shit for a little while. This has been really enjoyable.
494
00:22:42.059 --> 00:22:45.519
Hopefully you guys were at least mildly entertained or you
495
00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:47.799
learned something or at least you're like, okay, I'm never
496
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.099
fucking with those guys again.
497
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:57.230
I don't know. Thanks for joining us. Cheers, y'all. Thanks
498
00:22:57.269 --> 00:22:57.769
for listening.
499
00:22:58.569 --> 00:23:02.210
This conversation was live from CrimeCon with Kyle Tequila and
500
00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:05.410
Dennis Cooper. If you haven't already, be sure to check
501
00:23:05.450 --> 00:23:08.880
out Crook County in the new season of Culpable. And
502
00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:11.859
stay tuned for some exciting new shows coming very soon
503
00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:12.460
from Tenderfoot.
