Alex Hirbe

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Hi, everybody. Welcome to Control on Compete. Today.
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We're joined by Alex Harby from Play Versus. Alex, how
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are you good?
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How are you doing? James?
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Thank you so much for being here. So that's not
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a Scottish accent, right, No, not at all.
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So you've came here for phase for the Esports Conference
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this weekend, right?
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Yeah? Where bait did you travel from then?
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Coming from Kansas City?
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Right? And this is your first time in Scotland.
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First time in Scotland, yes, and is it what you
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thought it would be so far? I've been here about
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four and a half hours and so it looks just
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like the pictures so.
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Far, well the sunny pictures.
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Yeah, sunny pictures. Yeah.
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I was expecting a lot of rain and cloud cover,
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but it's been great.
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I think that I think the rain's going to come
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this weekend, so you get the experience as well. Right, great,
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So Alex tell me about your background then, So from
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Play Versus you're coming here to speak at the Esports Conference.
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I know you're they're massive with esports and education, but
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you started off as a teacher, is that right, that's right? Yeah,
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So tell me about how you're going to teach in
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and then your transition into esports.
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Yeah, so I started teaching and talk for ten years
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in the classroom. I taught a bunch of different stuff
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in what we would call career technical education, so would shop, manufacturing,
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metal shop.
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I was enjoyed that class.
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Good yeah, good, Well, I'll teach you a couple of things.
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But then also I did a lot of computer things
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as well. So I did computer science, game development, three
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D modeling, and animation, and through that I really got
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into training teachers on the better use of technology. And
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so when I started working at a second school school
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district after my first, I took a job as a
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technology trainer for teachers as well as a computer science
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and shop teacher, so almost the same thing, but with
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even more responsibilities. And that's when esports kind of started
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to kind of pop up in the US IS around
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that time, and we were asked to. I was asked
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to start an esports program at our high school and
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found the Gaming Concepts curriculum and kind of began working
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through that, and you know, in conversations with the writers
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of the Gaming Concepts Curriculum, actually started working there to
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you know, I was giving them feedback on the curriculum,
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and they pretty much asked if I wanted to work
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there and help implement these changes, and yeah, and the
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rest is history.
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So im a co author on that curriculum.
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So, like, where do you think it started off in
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the US and when do you think it kicked off,
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like into education, because I've been interested that. I've been
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interested in the timeline around the world of you know,
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who's at what level of esports, how long they've been
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doing for.
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So when do you think it started?
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Twenty nineteen?
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In twenty nineteen, we were one of the first programs
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in Kansas, which is, you know, right in the center
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of the state of the country. But there have been
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programs esports programs for years prior to that, So anywhere
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from I would say twenty ten on, it's kind of
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where esports is kind of starting to be seen at
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the academic level, but not in terms of an actual course,
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which is kind of more of my function. It's always
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going to be the club type or after school activity
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for esports. Recently, in the past five years is when
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it's really started to take hold in large districts, small
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districts as a course that you would take during the
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school day and and that is really exciting to watch
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because you know, as you being a gamer and in
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the into esports, you can see the benefits that esports
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can have and when you can put that into a
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classroom setting with a teacher, you can see how it
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connect even more bridges for students.
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And so what at what level?
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Like obviously in Scotland we've got primary school, secondary school
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and then you go to college negativy, So what level
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as esports get integated in the US as it's not
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like what level not.
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Quite to kindergarten yet, but it is it is going low.
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We actually just finished our first elementary school book, so
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that's going to be students that are going to be
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around eight years old. And so currently we have curriculum
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and integration for schools in the US from eight years
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old through eighteen and so you have all the way
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through primary school, secondary school and then even handing them
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off into some of the collegiate levels, some other different
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types of offerings.
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That's awesome. And these are tournaments that happen through that
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as well. So as much as education site is like tournaments.
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And absolutely you know you have to have kind of
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an outlet or you know, you have to have kind
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of the backbone of esports yep, with the curricula.
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Because we still have like Okay, they know they're getting taught, right,
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but like the tournament site is what they want to
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do with their friends and I want to compete, and
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then you can take that and then do a teaching
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around it.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely, Yeah, so you might have where very similar to
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traditional sports, you can't just practice the game, right, There
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has to be team building. There has to be you know,
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kind of together time. There has to be you know, bonding,
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and all of that can take place in the classroom
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setting where students are learning how to be safe online
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they can learn about expect they learn about behaviors. All
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of that is beneficial to the team environment as they
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begin to compete either after school or even sometimes during school.
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Yeah, because I think we've done some regional tournaments for phase. Right,
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So we ran some in the Scottish borders and we
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ran them in five and I think the teachers it
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was great for me to actually not just watch the kids.
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I've seen the kids play and having fun, right, you know,
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that's good, but it was actually the teachers that were
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starting to see a difference and even Okay, so you
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forget that when you're younger, maybe a ten year old
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and a thirteen year old, that sometimes that's miles away.
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You know, you don't think about what you remember being
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back at school and the people that were even one
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year older than you you looked at. So they were
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seeing a great that these kids were actually engaging in
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talking to each other. Yeah, they would maybe not not
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talk to somebody younger or talk to somebody older, and
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they're talking about the teamwork, the communication.
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They were actually seeing it.
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I could just I could just see the teachers clocking
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it and thinking this is great, this could help you.
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And not even not even for you know, the age difference.
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But you know, talking about those stereotypical clicks in a school, right,
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you might have you know, you have your jocks and
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your popular kids and your you know, different areas of
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students that typically you know, cling together society.
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It makes it like that.
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And how many American movies do you see with a
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football team the cheerleaders like that?
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Right, But when you get to esports and you know,
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and some of my talks i'll talk about it this
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weekend and at the conference, but you know, I had
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a student that was a ghost through the building, right,
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you barely knew he was there. And this student ended
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up coaching our team through Valorant and basically directing some
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of some of the most popular kids were also in
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my in my class as well.
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From the building.
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He was telling what these kids what to do, and
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they became friends afterwards, right because of the bond that
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Esports had had brought to them.
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And not just that they become very probably find that
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these kids are very cleared up, very clever, are very competent.
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Oh yes, yeah, yeah, but they just don't they don't
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have an out They don't have an outlet, and nobody
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cares about what they care about, right, because school is
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easy for the kids that can play the game yep,
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but the game of school, yeah, but the game of life,
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the game of life, right, But some students don't have
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that ability, right, But they do have the ability to
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do well in an online environment they have more control
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over or feel that they have more control over. And
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so when you can make those connections and meet those
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kids where they're at, then they can really thrive in
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school and find a purpose in school again and.
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A purpose in life.
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And I think that's that's the big thing is good.
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You know, I've seen a lot of kids going from
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being to twelve allmars and that's like the most fragile
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times you would think for kids. Yeah, because they could
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maybe you know, they could go into deal with their
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own crowd, right, yeap. But I think if they've got
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clubs and they've got friends and they communicate, then it
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can really help, do you think. Do you think even
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more so now in a digital age when people are
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a bit at home and because of COVID, there's a
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lot more kids are like that are grown. Have you
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seen a change in how long you've been teaching for?
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Sorry so many questions, how long you've been teaching for? Oh?
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I taught for ten years before moving out of education,
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But I mean I've been in education for the last
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fifty years.
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Right, and so how would you say or have you
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seen a difference and the way kids are?
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Oh? Yes, yeah, absolutely.
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You know, before COVID you still had in the US,
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we've always had kind of a problem with disengagement and
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attendance issues.
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Behavior issues, and it happens, happens everywhere.
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But coming back from COVID, right, we see these students
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almost becoming deinstitutionalized. Right, they've come back from COVID, and
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this is in the month year or two afterwards, where
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they just they just they just don't They just can't
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handle norms anymore. They can't sit at a desk for
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forty five minutes, ninety minutes and do work. It has
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really changed how education is seen as there's a lot
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more breaks, there's a lot of movement, there's a lot
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more activity and engagement that's being pushed because the students
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just can't handle their brains have just completely you know,
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rewired themselves for more freedom at home, more freedom to
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do as they will, more time on their phone, and again, right,
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it's kind of they've they've lost the rule of school
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because of that break that happened.
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That's so weird. They probably wouldn't.
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You're probably now starting tomb Yeah, realize what that was
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right before the time was just getting through it.
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We're all in like fight your flight mode. We're just
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they're all.
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Getting through it, right, Yeah. I mean, I mean what
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was it like during COVID for you guys. I mean
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do you think you seen esports start to flourish more?
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I mean like with kids at home and was there
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anybody jumped in and said, well, you know, all that
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stuff you've been talking about, Alex is great, we could
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probably use that now.
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Yeah, yeah, and we started. I mean, the curriculum really
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started to be adopted right at the tail end of COVID,
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right is it just wasn't ready yet. There weren't enough
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adopters to it because of how kind of you know,
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revolutionary this was. Is you know, have a sports class
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during the day, like you know, it's kind of an
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after school thing. But yeah, online tournament providers like ourselves
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at play Versus, you know, really saw a boost in
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enrollments because you know, kids are going to need to
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have that outlet and they're going to be with their
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friends already, and at least they're doing some sort of
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kind of like sponsored activity with an adult through their
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esports team.
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But yeah, COVID.
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COVID was a wild thing because you know, there were
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some places where there were a lot of restrictions and
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in some places where there weren't as many restrictions, and
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so you have a real kind of as a country
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hybrid model of in an in and out of person
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and so having the online space for tournaments and for
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students to have that outlet was a real, real game changer.
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And so you must have had I mean obviously we
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I think the size of America is massive. Ice we
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had the play there, says and Generation Esports was that, right, Yeah,
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that was so Generation Esports.
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So the company, the tournament side of it.
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Yeah, yep, So like how many how wide spread our
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Generation Esports in the States?
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Then so Generation Esports we just we're all one now. Yeah,
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so Generation Esports, you know, across the US, we had
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you know, several thousand teams with us. Same with play Versus, right,
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we have several thousands teams with us, and and it's
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just it's just a behemoth of of students, which is
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great because you know, if it becomes too fractured, then
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it's hard to say with any kind of value behind
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it that you're the champion of Rocket League or you're
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the you know, the national champion, right because if it's
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you know, if it's if it's us and them and
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you know, company C, Company D, Company E, then there
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is no everyone can be a champion, right. And so
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with consolidation, everybody doesn't nobody loves not everybody loves consolidation.
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But it really focuses to bring esports up into a
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real structured path for students to have a decided winner
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for sure.
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And so that must be a lot of admin mark
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and have you've got is it part of the system?
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You've got?
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The helps the system.
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The system that we use is is on some amazing
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tech in the background, always ensuring, always ensuring that students
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are placed with another another competitor. We're incredibly low forfeit
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rate or dropout rate. And also with the smart scheduler,
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it learns as it as you play. And so what's
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really amazing about that is that everyone starts out by
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playing each other randomly, so the system knows you're a
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good team and this is not a not I'm not
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as a good team, right, and so the next match
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we're gonna get rematched up again and the system will
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learn so that it's going to start matching me after
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two matches. Uh, that I'm going to start beating matched
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up equally with a level of team that matches my ability.
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Impressive.
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Yeah, So how much do you guys work with the
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developers for example?
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Do you need to closely?
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Yeah, I was going to say it closely.
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Yeah, there's there's the use guys, Epics, Psionics, Minecraft, uh uh, Nintendo,
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some of the biggest names, the Lizard.
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Yeah.
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I mean we have close we have we have people
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that are dedicated to each one of these partnership you know, publishers,
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and we have very close relationships with them for custom maps,
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for you know, lobbies and for a couple of really
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cool features that are going to be coming out in
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twenty twenty six.
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Awesome because my little boy, Jackson, he's on these four
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nighte right, so I'll go all Legion goal, so I
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use that and then he's playing Minecraft at the same time.
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Yeah.
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I was just telling the story in the office and
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I build something now, right, and if I go to
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the toilet, it comes.
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Back, and he's he's just wrecked.
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All it's good, but he enjoys that, you know, creating
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bread jays and you can tell he's getting his creativity
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and he loves it.
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Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
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Some of the best things that we've been working on recently,
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you know, me being on the education side, is using
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our partnership with Minecraft Education for some really neat lessons
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that we've been building out with them.
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Because they quite as well, don't they go they do
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their talks as well. Don't they want the world miincraft
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education Minecraft education?
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Yep, And so so we're building some lessons around stuff
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that they have and also working closely with them on
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the tournament side to host Minecraft tournaments as well.
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So you usually quate the continentage of you're always thinking
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of new ways that you can make it better and
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find sure I can tell yah.
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Yeah, it's it's amazing that you know, teaching seems like
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it's kind of a you know, a pigeonholed kind of
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career and profession. But you know, I've used that training
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professionally now for the last five years or so into
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creating you know, gaming concepts and and kind of flourishing
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out or fleshing out some of these concepts and theories
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on education in the classroom around E sports and gaming
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and you know, how you can build a career off
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of off of gaming, right, which I would have never
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known was a thing even six years ago, right, it
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was before me until I started to get into it.
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And it's just it's just it's just been a fire
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hose of information and and and uh success.
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So would you say that yes, would you say that
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you know your lead in then you know, you can
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say it if you want to. But wreet House and
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in the world, would you say that, you would maybe
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Ale look Out they are doing a good job as well,
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Like Greetouse in the world, do you think are really
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making good with esports and education?
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It's it's hard because so many countries are in different places.
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Right.
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If I'm talking specifically from an education component, I think
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the US is with with with our company. And I
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know that's completely biased, but having been around the world
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and seen some of the lesson plans and things like that,
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they they are lesson plans, right, and they're collections of
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lesson plans, and they seem kind of haphazard versus a structured,
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vertically aligned curriculum.
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Right.
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Everyone on our team, the education team, are our tenured
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teachers that have been in the in the profession for
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decades plus, and so we know the system, we know
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how it works, and we know how to write curriculum
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and so it's a very different thing than lessons or activities.
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And so you know, I hate to say that I
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think that I think the US in terms of getting
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it in schools and for credit classes, I think they
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are doing the best job.
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Because I think I can only speak for what I've
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seen in Scotland, but I think when esports get brought
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into school in Scotland, it's like, oh, give it to
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the it guy, right it guys like he's a gamer. Yeah,
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And I think that happens, and what happens as well
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as the teachers that are passionate about it, they have
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to do it then on top of their own job,
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so that doesn't really help as well. So whereas you've
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been given the freedom in the back end to go
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out and do this, now, that's what it needs.
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And that's and that's what we try and do because
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we know that sometimes districts are going to pick this
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to a teacher or tell a teacher that they're going
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to be doing this and they have no interest in it. Okay,
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I didn't have a ton of interest in it when
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I was asked to do it. And so what we
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do because we know that teachers most valuable resources time
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and so that's why we save all of the time
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by doing all the stuff on the back end. So
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we script all the lessons. Everything is completely curated for
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you with discussion prompts, questions, activities, the lecture, the slot.
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Everything is provided for you as well as all of
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the standards to line it up in your country or
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state are all provided and done for you by us,
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so that all you have to do.
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Is get back to your craft of teaching.
382
00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:40.360
So what can of feedback if you had then from
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teachers that said, like once maybe likely have been converted, right,
384
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What's what kind of things that you've seen that teachers
385
00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:46.720
have came back and said to you.
386
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.600
I mean it is across the board positive, right, So
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00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.399
teachers are so thankful that this is something that has.
388
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.200
The kids will listen to.
389
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.159
This is something that the kids will listen to. You know,
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we have we have you know, and we have studies
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that we have data behind it. But it's like, you know,
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we are increases in engagement, increases in attendance, increases in
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00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.920
GPA and then also as a grade point average, so
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their their their achievement in school for their marks. And
395
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.799
then also an increase in mental health as well.
396
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.200
Yeah, that's a big one, especially we're talking before but
397
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:18.440
people being isolated.
398
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:19.720
And again out yeah.
399
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.279
Yeah, and we saw the benefit that that we knew
400
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the benefit was there, right, we had a theory, right
401
00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.000
as an education team, we knew that this was happening,
402
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.559
but we weren't quite sure. So in twenty twenty one
403
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.720
we embarked on doing a study that's actually been published
404
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.240
in a medical journal on on how gaming concepts in
405
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.319
our curriculum can increase student self esteem scores by as
406
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:42.920
much as eight percent in some in some court, is.
407
00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.240
I just about given them something that they're good and
408
00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:47.519
mc and you know, being with best, with a good
409
00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:48.680
eye and showing with our good.
410
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.839
Yeah, because there's a Christy Custer, doctor Christy Custer, one
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00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.680
of our head authors, says it best. And I'm going
412
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.119
to muck it up, but uh, there's a there's a
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cyclical kind of thing that happens in a student's brain,
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00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.079
and it's says, I am good at esports.
415
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:03.680
Esports is in school.
416
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.960
I am good at school, right, And so if you
417
00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:09.519
can be good at just one thing, then you can
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00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:11.920
see that light. You can see that success and have
419
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.480
that taste of success and and lose that fear of
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00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.079
failure where you've you've developed a safe space. And these
421
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.440
students can really flourish and blossom because they have had
422
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.480
they have this kind of cornerstone now in their education journey.
423
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.359
Anders are getting used to going to school then helps
424
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.000
them and be taken on something percent.
425
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.039
Yeah, if you're even if it gets them in the door,
426
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.680
right and they they are half way, halfway paying attention, right,
427
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.720
just getting there, then there is half the battle because
428
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.680
once they're there they will learn something. They will they
429
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.440
their ears can't be turned off, right, and so just
430
00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.720
getting there is beneficial in itself.
431
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:53.359
And so then obviously once again I'll come back to Scotland.
432
00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:56.519
Sometimes you hear horror stories of ma see horror stories
433
00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:58.559
come a game or but like the teacher will bring
434
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:01.559
in their old PlayStation wide for a class because they
435
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.599
can't maybe not have money in some schools, right, yeah,
436
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.400
what's it like regard and like what can I say?
437
00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:10.000
OLP? So the school's got in the US as it varies.
438
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:11.920
I mean it varies everywhere, right, it depends on how
439
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.920
much money you've got to spend on a program. Right,
440
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.240
Some schools and some districts are going to be you know,
441
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.920
have a multimillion dollar e sports arena ready to go,
442
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:23.440
and they're all in. Other schools are playing board games.
443
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:23.880
Right.
444
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.720
Our curriculum and all of our processes work across the
445
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:28.000
board with either right, So.
446
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.359
Whatever, so you can you can adjust that the part whatever.
447
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:31.960
You have, right, we have so we have kids that
448
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.519
are doing board games. We have kids that are have
449
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.200
one switch in the room with twelve kids, twenty kids
450
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.880
and they rotate. It's it's just kind of getting started
451
00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.400
with with what you can get started with, and then
452
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.240
once you can show that, you know, then people start
453
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.559
to tend to put money towards it.
454
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:46.799
Right.
455
00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:49.599
The school might start seeing that this is promising, this is,
456
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:51.799
you know, showing some benefit. Maybe we can kick in
457
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.000
some more money, maybe the teachers can get some grants
458
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:57.680
from places. But it does vary wildly on what what
459
00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.200
school schools have for sure.
460
00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:01.559
So once I've got esports, say out what other ways
461
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:03.400
does school start to even monetize them?
462
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.880
I mean, do you do after school clubs? Clubs? Like,
463
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:07.799
what's that? What does that look like in the States?
464
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:08.279
Absolutely?
465
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.000
Yeah, So after school clubs are are are hard to
466
00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:13.079
get sometimes hard to get money for if the district
467
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.799
isn't providing it or the school isn't providing it. So
468
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.160
that's where they you know, we really encourage teachers to
469
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.759
reach out to local businesses to sponsor some of their things. Right,
470
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.160
So it's just the same as if you'd have a
471
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.359
football match and you'd be you'd be mentioning the local
472
00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:30.079
insurance agent or car age.
473
00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:32.680
I'm sure there's big employers are close by every.
474
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.000
Time, yeah, utilities or whatever, and so they're always keen
475
00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:39.519
to do you know, American football games, there's ads everywhere
476
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.880
for at the high school level around the stadium, right
477
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.920
and even announced sometimes over the intercom. And so esports
478
00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.720
can be the same model for that, right, they can
479
00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:51.559
sponsor these kind of events. There can be outreach and
480
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:54.799
parents support, community support. Isn't a couple of ways that
481
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:55.279
they can get.
482
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.400
Money because in these stays as well.
483
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.160
The football clubs, the big NFL clubs are not just
484
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.559
like clubs. I mean they do insurance as well, right,
485
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.640
they do funerals are some of the people. So in
486
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:05.359
the sense of the heart of the say, they do
487
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:07.839
everything these these these clubs as.
488
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.839
Well, right, yeah, absolutely, and you can you know, everyone's
489
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.920
wanting to get their name out there somewhere, and uh
490
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.400
and esports is definitely a way for sponsorships, a way
491
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:18.440
for businesses to do that.
492
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.200
And what would you say then, regarding these big football clubs,
493
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:25.039
how much do these clubs intricate with the sports and
494
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:28.160
what have you seen with the traditional sports sports.
495
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.079
Yeah, so we we we have a couple of partnerships,
496
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.920
one with the National Hockey League and another one with
497
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:38.720
another one with the National Football League, and it is
498
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:43.680
it is very it's weirdly I say that it's weirdly successful.
499
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:43.920
Right.
500
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.519
We did one in New Jersey a couple of months
501
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.240
back and set up an esports section at the hockey
502
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.160
game and it was full the whole time.
503
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:52.960
Right zones.
504
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.279
Yeah, yeah, fan zones, right, fan zones. And you're playing
505
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.359
kind of the game that your parents might be watching, right,
506
00:21:58.359 --> 00:21:59.880
because the kids are all going to be there in
507
00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:01.839
the parents are all on the stands watching the actual game.
508
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.200
But it's just a way to you know, continue to
509
00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:06.920
educate kids on you know, you're at the hockey game
510
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:08.839
or you're at a football game, and it's just another
511
00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:11.880
you know, community building place. Right you might find a
512
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.039
new friend next to you, or you know, you might
513
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:16.480
learn something new in a game you're playing, or you know,
514
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:19.359
pick up some you know, some good characteristics from in
515
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:20.000
the street in.
516
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.160
The football teams, and that the hockey teams will hope
517
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.839
that when these kids get older, they might then start
518
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:26.559
the company the games or sale right, Yeah.
519
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.640
Yeah, you had a good time there. It's all about
520
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.519
bringing people back. It's all about the return on the investments.
521
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:33.119
I've never been to an American I'm going to be
522
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.599
America stuff. I've never been to like one of the
523
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.240
bigger the NBA games, but they always look like fantastic events.
524
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.000
Yeah, huge, hugely fun obviously, like you know, thousands and
525
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.720
thousands of people. And so if you can you can
526
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:47.319
build that positive experience for somebody at a younger age,
527
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:49.880
then they, you know, can recall that and say, oh
528
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:51.720
I want to go back ron to you know, keep
529
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:52.279
doing that.
530
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.559
And what are the game in fest I've always like
531
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:54.960
you out in the stage. I think you get dream
532
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.119
dream Hike Dallas, you can get.
533
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:58.720
There's a couple of dream hacks. Yeah.
534
00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:03.240
The gaming festivals are are also wild. You know, thousands
535
00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.359
and thousands of people, they're huge events. And I think
536
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.839
that it just it just aids it's it's notoriety to
537
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.160
the US trying to really push itself out as you know,
538
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.759
an esports leader in making this a relevant and legitimate
539
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.319
thing that isn't beneficial to people and beneficial to students, right,
540
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.079
I know, for so long it's kind of been. You know,
541
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.319
I know Saudi Arabia is trying to build out as
542
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.440
that's the esports you know, kind of mecha right.
543
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:32.799
There, right, everything, right, they're trying to do that. That's fine.
544
00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:34.640
But they can they can keep the Esports World Cup.
545
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:39.079
That's fine, Like that's that's their things. No, let them
546
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:40.680
have it, that's fine, that's fine.
547
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.839
But again you never know, that's right. They might tour
548
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:46.599
it around. Yeah.
549
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.000
Yeah, And you know in South Korea is such a
550
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.119
huge esports you know, with StarCraft two and you know,
551
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.000
everything in legal legends down there. But I think in
552
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.759
terms of like legitimizing it as like a real thing,
553
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.240
everyone's trying to do it and we're putting it into school,
554
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.039
I think that the US is leading the way on that.
555
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:05.880
Yeah, I think education in esports is definitely where it
556
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.759
needs to be as well, because I think, you know,
557
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:09.920
even when he comes to the amateur level, it's quite
558
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.759
difficult sometimes for kids to get teams together. Right, So
559
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:14.440
if you're doing homage at esports, I can say that
560
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:16.359
I'm gonna be sixteen to twenty one. You need to
561
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.079
have that one person that's driving it, he's almost capped
562
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:21.279
and to kind of make it because the school, the
563
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.640
kids are already there. They've got the classes, you've got
564
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:24.960
your brands, you've got your schools.
565
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:28.559
And that's that's such an important thing that you brought up,
566
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:31.319
is that oftentimes you might get that one champion teacher
567
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.319
that wants to do it and is gung ho about it,
568
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:35.960
but you know, adding that to a teacher's plate can
569
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.680
only be for so long before they get burned out.
570
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:41.400
And then once that teacher leaves, whether you know they
571
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:43.799
wanted to or just too much for them or whatever,
572
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:46.799
you know, that program usually dies right. And so the
573
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.079
sports is done right. However, if you bring it into
574
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:51.079
the schools, into the school day, it's a curriculum, yeah,
575
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.480
it's a school, it's a course. Then there's a teacher
576
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:57.759
on the books for that, and then it stays.
577
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:59.519
Job opportunities, and that's the onely going to get bad
578
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:01.559
as well, because there's many maybe I like, for example,
579
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.559
in traditional sports, when people past their playing career, they
580
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.279
might go into broadcasts, they make you know, commentary things
581
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:10.200
that people might then are ex you know, players come
582
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.279
into teaching and they can start teaching schools.
583
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:14.720
Yeah, and that's exactly what we try and do.
584
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.000
Is you know, because we don't aren't the curriculum, to
585
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.559
be clear, we don't teach anybody how to play video games.
586
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:21.240
Kids know how to do that already.
587
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.319
What we do is focus on those careers, right, And
588
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:24.759
so it's like, maybe you do want to go into
589
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:28.440
broadcast or streaming or content creation or networking or you know,
590
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:32.359
any any myriad of professions that can come out of esports,
591
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.839
because you know, esports and gaming really is kind of
592
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.920
a diving board and you're you're jumping into literally almost
593
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.440
any career because you could be in, like I said,
594
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.559
those tech careers, but you could also be in wellness,
595
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.480
you could be in law, you could be in you know,
596
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:48.200
you know, physical therapy, marketing, you know a million things.
597
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.000
So and we try and we try and cater to
598
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.200
that and and and kind of you know, branch kids
599
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.240
out through experiencing those things and so that they kind
600
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.240
of know or have had some some immersion in those things.
601
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:01.880
And so what we've then, you've been doing this now
602
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.079
in a sense teacher for fifteen years. What have you seen,
603
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:07.440
for example, is there any kids that you've seen that
604
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:09.880
have came through the course and have went on to
605
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:11.680
do X, Y and Z, have you got any kind
606
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:13.200
of stories or testing.
607
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.759
It's hard to get.
608
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.400
It's hard to get those kids after they leave high school, right,
609
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.880
because then they go off to a million different places.
610
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:24.319
But we do know that because he's kept in contact
611
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.680
one of our other author's student that was in his class.
612
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.799
He worked for Blizzard for a while and has helped
613
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.160
on some I believe World of Warcraft levels or areas.
614
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.599
And then other students have been have moved on to
615
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:40.119
get esports scholarships at the universities that they go to.
616
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.519
But you know a lot of them are just you know,
617
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.079
better acclimated to being successful in the collegiate field. Y're
618
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.359
going into the workforce because of the skills that they
619
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.480
were being developed with the curriculum.
620
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:55.400
Because you think about it, when the curriculum first got written,
621
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.400
things have changed so much now, right, there's so many
622
00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:00.839
people now with maybe adhd Slag the album, we're starting
623
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:02.920
to see all these things that we've never seen before.
624
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.519
So all the curriculum that was made back then, it
625
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.799
doesn't fit everybody in there.
626
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:09.759
Right, uh uh no, And that's something else the biggest problem.
627
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:14.319
Yeah, that and everything changing, right, So a lot of
628
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.759
things in the gaming space have changed you know, in
629
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.599
the last ten years or so. The first version of
630
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.599
the curriculum was written in twenty sixteen, and so yes,
631
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:24.680
a lot of massive changes have happened in the last
632
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:28.319
nine years, and so we rewrite it every few years.
633
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.359
It's completely rewritten, and so it's always always fresh and new,
634
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.759
based on what we're seeing from feedback from students and teachers,
635
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:37.200
and based on what trends are doing.
636
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:39.920
I go, well, we asked you one last thing, right,
637
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.039
so I won't put on the spot, but did you
638
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.079
game at all as I could?
639
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:43.240
Then?
640
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:43.440
Oh?
641
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:44.759
Yes, so what did you like?
642
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.000
Oh my gosh. When I was growing up and I
643
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:49.839
still I just got them on the switch. Actually, metal
644
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.880
Gear Solid was my game and I absolutely loved it.
645
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:55.279
And then after metal Gear Solid then I got really
646
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:59.240
into Vice City. Okay, so if there was a scholarship
647
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:00.880
for Grand Theft out, I think I definitely would have
648
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:01.200
gotten there.
649
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:02.599
Well, do you know what, rock Star, I've got an
650
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:05.599
office in Edinburgh, they've got one in Dundee, right, so yeah,
651
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:07.599
and there's always like Easter Eggs of Scotland and your
652
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.319
your your Grand Theft Auto games, so yeah, yeah, maybe
653
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:12.960
you'll see someone you're here there We go awesome, awesome, that'sten,
654
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:14.759
Alex Pleasure, Budday can speak to you all day.
655
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:16.880
Appreciate very much, man, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
656
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:18.559
H