WEBVTT
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I'm Ashon Addison from block West Capital
for Investment Pitch Media, and today on
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the Crypto Coin Show we have Bruno
Maya, the ecosystem growth lead of Cartessi.
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Bruno, welcome to the show and
it is a pleasure to have you
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here. Thanks for having me here
still today. Really pleasure to join the
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show. Actually, great enthusiasts for
y'all for your show, super cooling and
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very good content. Thank you so
much. And it's a pleasure to have
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Cartessi back on. It's been since
twenty twenty one. We did have the
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founder back on the show for the
first time, and I know so much
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has happened with the ecosystem in two
years, which is like a decade in
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crypto, So I'd love to get
some updates where Cartessi is at right now.
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But before we dive into that,
i'd love to hear first of all,
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a little bit about your background in
blockchain and how that led to the
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ecosystem growth at Cartessi, and then
we'll dive into all the details. Absolutely
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a pleasure. So atually my background
engineer and telecom engineer, so in early
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two thousands graduated from the university work
in mobile networks. Starting from thousand and
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eight I start my international career in
telecom as an international independent strategic consultant working
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from Qualcom for almost ten years,
travel and live in some different places including
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Mexico, giving support mobile operators,
and around one thousand and sixteen start get
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to know block chain and get super
enthusiasts about the technology and it really felt
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strong, pushing to learn and get
more deep and that and thousand and eighteen
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I had an opportunity to jump as
a professional into as a professional, so
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I quit completely Telecom joined a company
called bit Theory as a director of free
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sales on bitcoin mining and blockchain.
They used to have a permission and block
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chain by the time, and where's
my conquered as a professional and really not
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only as enthusiasts, but as a
part of the ecosystem in the industry,
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doesn't do any Eric, he called
me. They just launched the ie O
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in buidence. He was super enthusiasts
and by the time, so we're still
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earthly imagine any were super earlyier.
So it's very difficult to find people capable
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to understand technology, to talk about
technology and think strategically on how to how
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to grow that the vision of Catasian
and he he asked me to join the
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group. I know Eric since from
school times. We also was in the
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same university back to region Airy,
Brazil, and he always talking to me
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about the project. But when he
mentioned about people that was part of the
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project, then where I got excited, right, say Eric, stop,
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I'm journey. I don't know,
I don't need to know anymore else.
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The people that is inside is this, this vision and the quality of the
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human capital that Cartesi has was for
me the key factor to join. It
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is all about people right in the
end, It's all about people. So
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joining that the extinguished group for me
was the greatest pleasure. And here I
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am almost three years after joining.
Cartes is so super excited, amazing and
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a company really just as a group
of people with common vision. So it's
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good to have a great group around
you working towards something great. And I
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want to talk about some of the
updates for Cartesi, but before we do
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that, let's get people up to
date. For those who haven't seen our
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first interview, or for those who
have aren't familiar with what CARTESI does,
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maybe you can give a high level
overview on just the ecosystem and then we
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can dive into the details. Thanks
for asking that ashl is actually we were
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were in this process also self discovery. Cos Cartesi is working on the front
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line of what block chain is.
So for refinement through the years of what
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means cortasic projure and which space we
are adding value and collaborate into the ecosystem.
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And and courtesy is what we call
an execution layer, a model or
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execution layer used in a very specifically
design of roll ups called applications specifically roll
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ups, right, and what we
really had the value top of this unique
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design on application specifically roll up is
a risk five virto machine that runs an
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entire Linux OS. So it's the
first time that the blockchain ecosystem has a
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very refined and sophisticated VM running entire
Linux. And this is for developers,
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is a completely game change on which
kind of programs and how you can approach
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programmability and blotching. That's I'm glad
that you mentioned that because a lot of
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most people understand, even though who
those who aren't deep into blockchain, that
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Ethereum runs on the Ethereum virtual machine
and all of these networks of computers.
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These world Internet computers have virtual machines
that they're running. And Linux has been
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a part of you know, back
in the beginning of the Internet, it
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was like the operating system for developers. And I really haven't heard Linux at
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all so far in blockchain. I'm
curious why is that and why now is
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Cartesi working with it and what makes
it so great for the blockchain ecosystem.
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But also another great question, well, uh, in the Linux is present
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more than ninety percent of devices in
the world. Is a common layer for
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computing, right, And as you
said, the Experium is indeed a very
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primitive world computer, right, with
a very limited computational capacity, and that
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is one of the bought next and
that's what a Wired us to really reach
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mainstream only using Italian, because it's
impossible to build daily real solve real problems,
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life, real problems with that so
limited computational capacity and data stortage.
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Right. But indeed it's a very
simplified computer that has an extremely decentralized processing
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and the most beautiful achievement of Italian
is adding the decentralization of the truth.
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Whatever runs in Italian. It's validated
that thousands of notes and This gives a
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superpower on vertificability and temper proof and
and out the ability. Right. So
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so this is the greatest achievement of
Italian and and what cartes It did is
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built on top of this achievement.
So we are not trying to replace the
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Italian body. Opposite, we are
adomenting what Itaian achieved gave in this extra
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computational capacity which Cartesi application specifically roll
ups gives, so you can run thousand
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more computation effort of computation cycles in
a Cartasic application. Specific that you could
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run an entire Etherium block space.
That gives your possibility to build much more
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sophisticated program right. And on top
of that we put these Linux that has
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a huge gain on programmability. You
can choose your program to develop, your
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small contract, your depth, right. You can use different libraries to compose
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with this program, file tooling,
every tool that is commonly available for a
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developer on the typical Webb to space
right, and everything that we use in
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a Cortesic machine has the same secure
guarantees of Etherium. So our strong foundation
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is still this remarkable achievement of Italian, and we do that using this dispute
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resolution of optimistic roll ups. We
need head it from Ethalium or any other
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layer that we can integrate our technology
the same security guarantees. That's why we
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are modular. Right, We don't
need to implement only top of Italian.
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We can implement on top of Habitraum, optimism and others. Right. Getting
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this composibility of different configurations depends on
the requirements of the application that the developers
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will build. M very interesting and
I'm glad you mentioned the modularity there.
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I've had a few discussions this week
and over the past few months, I've
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been seeing a lot about modular verse
monolithic blockchains and almost like a synonymous term
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to like layer three or other expanding
layers on top of ethereum and the other
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layer ones. Do you see this
as something that's been worked on for a
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few years, it seems like,
but now sort of coming to fruition and
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that modular blockchains are going to be
something that is the status quo moving forward.
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It's it's it's an interesting question because
the whole equisystem is a great,
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great steel in the early days,
and we are still building the infraststructure of
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the tomorrow's blockchain, right. So, so it's a huge experimentation field and
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experimental field. And and what happened
is Etian realize a while ago. And
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that's the advantage of Etian to be
the first one they face problem that other
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monodytic change maybe face in one to
three years. Right. So they realized
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that it couldn't run enough computation,
enough transaction reduced cost of transactions in a
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scale required to get mass adoption with
a world computer that validates every single thing
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that happens in studity, right.
So, so they realize that the way
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would be concentrate in Italian based layer
the most important and fundamental characteristics, which
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is the decentralization of the truth through
the on census, right, and also
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increase the data storage capacity. The
rest a theorial roadmap is reliant to upper
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layers. The problem is the upper
layers that has been built on top of
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Italians so far, the architecture choice
of those layers. They face similar limitations
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of Italium artectual choice. Right.
So they are just now unloaded because they
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are in the early days. With
time they will be easy as well.
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So it's getting another direction that if
you really want scale competition in a level
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that requires to build real world applications
that touches the real world problems beyond just
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the typical financial solutions that we have
seen with the five. We need those
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uh in architectures that are rolled ups
per application right on top of all those
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layers that sits on the very foundation
basis of material right. And I believe
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that this modula solution will be ausd
so very interesting because each use case the
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men's different characteristics of your blockchain.
So if you have a blockchain with only
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one single characteristic, it's very difficult
to fit efficiently all possible use cases,
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so different use cases will require different
characteristics. The modularity give this aspect as
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well plus this city. Right.
Yeah, that's a great point. And
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we've seen a lot of defy applications
that are that are getting pretty big inside
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of the bubble that is the crypto
ecosystem, but we've yet to see some
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that have reached you know, millions
and millions of users outside of Web three
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for everyday people. I feel like
the gaming industry could be one of those
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industries that helps expand Web three into
the mainstream because the market cap of gaming
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is just far surpasses anything to do
with with Web three and there's millions and
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millions of users. Do you think
that that would be could be one of
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the near term use cases for having
ecosystems like this that that need extra storage,
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data availability, things like that.
Absolutely, a game is a very
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good example on how how limited is
the the infrastructure of the abut this moment
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to build very compelling and interesting games. Right, it's not just because the
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game in a blockchain that will succeed. A game fundamentally needs to be fun
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to play and and and and get
have the gameplay dynamics right, otherwise doesn't
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make any sense. And what we
have been seen so far is sent centralized
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games adding a small layer of of
blockchain mostly on on compensational mechanisms or wearables
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or very or very limited usage of
blockchain potential. And by the way,
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those wearables and everything, they are
controlled and minted and have a role on
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the gameplay, controlled by a centralized
logic, which is kind of awkward.
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Right, So having a massive gain
on computation will allow you to build much
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more logic on chain on chain,
meaning in one of those layers that are
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fully verifiable, immutable, and protected
by the concernsus of the blockchain, right,
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So in that sense you expand a
lot what can be done. Right.
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A tical example is one of Cartastic
community members, a super game developer.
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He got a novel chess game.
But the fun part is it's not
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a chess game because chess itself has
been developed directly Solidarity in Italian. But
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this gameplay they put robots AI robots
to battle against each other. So there's
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AI robots is it on Python falling
a strategic So the gamer is actually programming
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his robot to go to the battle. That's the funk bark. So so
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this type of different novel set ups
on gaming, you know, and different
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layers of incentives on how that can
can can get it and how discomposed with
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other games as well machine to machine
economy. So so a lot of interesting
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things that can be built, very
interesting and uh, you know, some
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of these games are huge as well, especially these massive online games or you
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know, with incredible graphics, and
I don't think it could at the moment.
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We couldn't just stick it on ethereum
without the whole blockchain is just breaking.
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So I'm excited to see how things
like these roll ups that you're talking
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about and the modularity help bring better, bigger, stronger games into into web
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three. And I saw recently.
You know, it's not it's not the
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biggest or the fanciest graphics game in
the world, but I saw it's one
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of the most popular. And there's
a reason. I saw a partnership with
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Cartessi and Doom, and it was
like one of the oldest online games that
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became famous. I'm curious on what's
happening with that and what can you tell
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me about this Doom in Cartessi.
Yeah, that was a funny one.
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Actually, it's not a formal partnership
with the with the soft house that created
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Doom's. Doom is an iconic game. It's maybe the cradle of the first
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point at first first shooting games,
right together with Wolfenstein. And that was
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a tweet, a tweet for someone
in the whole blockchain community challenging Theorian right
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saying if a Theorian is the worldwide
computer, is the Internet computer, why
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it didn't manage to run Doom yet, right, which is a valid question,
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by the way, and one one
one developer from our community replied or
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accepted, So here is Doom running
side cortesic virto machine, which is basically
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running on top of it and infrastructure
right with the application specifically roll up.
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So it's the very first time that
not the entire like logic of Doom is
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composed into this Virtom machine and execute
it right. And that gives a kind
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of a flavor teasing what curtastic can
do. You get you get a cold
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from a mainstream of thirty year plus
years developed. You get this code to
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just compile for our version of Linux, and and and and you have you
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have all the libraries on the programming
language everything ready to execute that, right.
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So that shows the complexity of programming
that this virto machine that Courtesy runs
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can handle. And uh, it's
a very open invitation for experimental developers to
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come and do modern entry. Right. Wow, that's very cool. I
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like, I love it. And
with these games that with that, you
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know question why doesn't it work on
Ethereum and the EVM, the Ethereum Virtual
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Machine. I'm curious on how Cartesi
and all of these other blockchains are building.
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It always ties back to the Ethereum
Virtual Machine, which, as you
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said, it's very rudimentary. It
doesn't it can't do all these things.
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But we're building on top of it
instead of building something new. Do you
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think that that will be you know, moving forward for years to come,
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everyone will just continue to build on
ethereum virtual machine. And if so,
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why basically I'll say that the Internet
is composable, right and uh, and
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and and you have this choices off
in tion is not that u as I
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said, Cortez is the only one
in single way swimplement smart contracts on l
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chain, right. So it's uh, it would be a choice of different
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requirements of the application, right,
different economic value of this application. It's
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a trend that Italian based layer would
be much more used for settlement and and
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and storage rather than you run directly
your code there. That would be up
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to players, right, So it
didn't veto machine. It would be extraordinary
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reused for the year's come. Right. And it's a simple Vecto machine by
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reason. For a reason because when
you have this world computer with several thousands
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nodes validating the same computation, you
cannot have for design choices. You cannot
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have a huge computation capacity. So
if you cannot have a huge each competition
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capacity, you cannot put a very
sophisticated Vito machine. You have to bring
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a Vito machine to the most simple, simplistic Virto machine that can allow any
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kind of programming to program to be
created. Full attorney for turning a machine
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right tuning machine. So that's what
what what teating is. And with a
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new language program language, so Cartez
would allow people that wants to do most
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sophisticated things have the ability to do
that. And of course on board millions
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of developers that have languages like Python, Java right to bring those own languages
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with their libraries, with the tooling
to leverage that on on on on the
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on the on the ting e consistent
of using Carte application specifically roll ups.
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It's already happening in all hackatons.
We have people building AI tools. That
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was not was an excellent developer from
Australia called Diane and she developed uh chat
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deputy inside Cartes. So you you
literally implement larger LM model inside cart which
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is which is pretty amazing. Right, Wow, that's very cool. And
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what do you think it's going to
take for that influx of you know,
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we're seeing it gradually, but there's
still so many Web two developers that have
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been developing for the past thirty years
that have yet to dip their feet into
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Web three. You know, is
it the lack of the environment in the
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programming languages that they've learned, or
is there some other barriers entry on why
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we're not already seeing as you mentioned
these decentralized applications beyond finance, other use
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cases that are in industries non financial. Yeah, it's a good question as
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that there's a lot of reasons for
that. It's not on a single specifically
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reason. But as as a stated
on the A sixteen Z release every year
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a very compelling report about the state
of creeple, right, and they did
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it twenty twenty three, and and
the city was very clear on one of
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the really key roadblocks to building use
case beyond the five for blockchains is exactly
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the lack of computation capacity what the
industry called block space, right. So
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Cartas is one of the main key
attributes of our design choices exactly to increase
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massively the block space or the computational
capacity. So we believe freeing that computational
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capacity is one of the very good
steps toward new use cases and more more
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real world applications be built on top
of blockchain. Aside of that, of
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course, there is a an adoption
cycle of new technologies that play around and
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the fact that not every solution application
that you built in the world needs a
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blockchain. You don't need to build
verifiable, decentralized round for everything that we
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do in our daily life. So
that will be things that are blockchainable,
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blockchainizable, and others that no,
it's okay to run your AWS central lives
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with super high performance, with low
to see real time response and et cetera.
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Right, So this is is where
also we need to understand it blocking
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will not completely replace the world of
computing, right m Yeah, good insights,
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and we don't have a lot of
time left Bruno, But I'm curious
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on the next steps of growth for
the Cartesti ecosystem, you know, towards
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the end of this year and moving
into twenty twenty four. What are some
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of the major things on the roadmap? Great, well, yeah, we
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have in the full full adoption mode
were we allow to may net and for
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applications specifically roll up to be launching
main apps is a novel concept, so
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meaning that Cartes will launge an application
called Honeypot on the main apt of Italian
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and stating that our technology is ready
to be used or other developers that wants
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to deply main app right so,
and and we will continue our roadmap increasing
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the usability of the of the technology, former partnerships to extend how you can
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compose Cartes technology to give more toxicity
to different use cases and benefits to different
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use cases. We are in touch
with several very important players and in the
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ecosystem, and that's why I believe
the block chain industry is much more collaborative
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rather than competitive, because different projects
are really good on building specifically blocks that
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will be very useful in the future. So we are in constant touch with
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all those those those players, and
we are open for experimentation, welcoming all
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developers that wants to do modern Web
three with Cartesi using any programming language they
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want. And super excited with the
future. Right so, yeah, very
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happy where we are and and excited
with the next steps. That is exciting.
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And what's the best way for the
viewers to follow along with those updates
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and to learn more about the developer
ecosystem and potentially get involved. Oh great,
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well you they can enterly not out
score, but I also following us
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in our in our Twitter hic prosion. All right, all access in our
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page with all our medias is Cartesio, which is pretty comprehensive, clean page
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that I can give everyone a very
good inside on what is cartesi. So
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we have our telegram communities, so
we have plenty of media to to every
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kind of individual excited with blockchain to
follow us, from developers to enthusiasts.
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Awesome, Thank you so much Bruno
for all the insights into just blockchain data,
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availability, scalability, modularity. This
is something that people that are learning
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this, they're ahead of the curve
and you have great insights into where the
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industry is going. So I'm definitely
going to be following up with CARTESSI.
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I'm gonna put the social links and
the platform links in the description box below
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so the viewers can also follow up
if they want to learn more. I
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appreciate all the time that you've taken
today and let's definitely follow up in the
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near future. Oh thanks, thanks
Ashton, thanks for having me and it
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was a pleasure to have this chat
today. It's really cool
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I'm Ashon Addison from block West Capital
for Investment Pitch Media, and today on
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00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:09.240
the Crypto Coin Show we have Bruno
Maya, the ecosystem growth lead of Cartessi.
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Bruno, welcome to the show and
it is a pleasure to have you
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here. Thanks for having me here
still today. Really pleasure to join the
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show. Actually, great enthusiasts for
y'all for your show, super cooling and
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very good content. Thank you so
much. And it's a pleasure to have
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Cartessi back on. It's been since
twenty twenty one. We did have the
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founder back on the show for the
first time, and I know so much
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has happened with the ecosystem in two
years, which is like a decade in
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crypto, So I'd love to get
some updates where Cartessi is at right now.
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But before we dive into that,
i'd love to hear first of all,
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a little bit about your background in
blockchain and how that led to the
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ecosystem growth at Cartessi, and then
we'll dive into all the details. Absolutely
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a pleasure. So atually my background
engineer and telecom engineer, so in early
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two thousands graduated from the university work
in mobile networks. Starting from thousand and
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eight I start my international career in
telecom as an international independent strategic consultant working
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from Qualcom for almost ten years,
travel and live in some different places including
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Mexico, giving support mobile operators,
and around one thousand and sixteen start get
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to know block chain and get super
enthusiasts about the technology and it really felt
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strong, pushing to learn and get
more deep and that and thousand and eighteen
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I had an opportunity to jump as
a professional into as a professional, so
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I quit completely Telecom joined a company
called bit Theory as a director of free
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sales on bitcoin mining and blockchain.
They used to have a permission and block
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chain by the time, and where's
my conquered as a professional and really not
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only as enthusiasts, but as a
part of the ecosystem in the industry,
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doesn't do any Eric, he called
me. They just launched the ie O
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in buidence. He was super enthusiasts
and by the time, so we're still
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earthly imagine any were super earlyier.
So it's very difficult to find people capable
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to understand technology, to talk about
technology and think strategically on how to how
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to grow that the vision of Catasian
and he he asked me to join the
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group. I know Eric since from
school times. We also was in the
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same university back to region Airy,
Brazil, and he always talking to me
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about the project. But when he
mentioned about people that was part of the
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project, then where I got excited, right, say Eric, stop,
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I'm journey. I don't know,
I don't need to know anymore else.
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The people that is inside is this, this vision and the quality of the
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human capital that Cartesi has was for
me the key factor to join. It
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is all about people right in the
end, It's all about people. So
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joining that the extinguished group for me
was the greatest pleasure. And here I
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am almost three years after joining.
Cartes is so super excited, amazing and
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a company really just as a group
of people with common vision. So it's
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good to have a great group around
you working towards something great. And I
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want to talk about some of the
updates for Cartesi, but before we do
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that, let's get people up to
date. For those who haven't seen our
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first interview, or for those who
have aren't familiar with what CARTESI does,
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maybe you can give a high level
overview on just the ecosystem and then we
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can dive into the details. Thanks
for asking that ashl is actually we were
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were in this process also self discovery. Cos Cartesi is working on the front
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line of what block chain is.
So for refinement through the years of what
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means cortasic projure and which space we
are adding value and collaborate into the ecosystem.
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And and courtesy is what we call
an execution layer, a model or
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execution layer used in a very specifically
design of roll ups called applications specifically roll
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ups, right, and what we
really had the value top of this unique
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design on application specifically roll up is
a risk five virto machine that runs an
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entire Linux OS. So it's the
first time that the blockchain ecosystem has a
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very refined and sophisticated VM running entire
Linux. And this is for developers,
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is a completely game change on which
kind of programs and how you can approach
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programmability and blotching. That's I'm glad
that you mentioned that because a lot of
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most people understand, even though who
those who aren't deep into blockchain, that
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Ethereum runs on the Ethereum virtual machine
and all of these networks of computers.
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These world Internet computers have virtual machines
that they're running. And Linux has been
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a part of you know, back
in the beginning of the Internet, it
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was like the operating system for developers. And I really haven't heard Linux at
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all so far in blockchain. I'm
curious why is that and why now is
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Cartesi working with it and what makes
it so great for the blockchain ecosystem.
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But also another great question, well, uh, in the Linux is present
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more than ninety percent of devices in
the world. Is a common layer for
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computing, right, And as you
said, the Experium is indeed a very
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primitive world computer, right, with
a very limited computational capacity, and that
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is one of the bought next and
that's what a Wired us to really reach
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mainstream only using Italian, because it's
impossible to build daily real solve real problems,
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life, real problems with that so
limited computational capacity and data stortage.
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Right. But indeed it's a very
simplified computer that has an extremely decentralized processing
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and the most beautiful achievement of Italian
is adding the decentralization of the truth.
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Whatever runs in Italian. It's validated
that thousands of notes and This gives a
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superpower on vertificability and temper proof and
and out the ability. Right. So
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so this is the greatest achievement of
Italian and and what cartes It did is
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built on top of this achievement.
So we are not trying to replace the
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Italian body. Opposite, we are
adomenting what Itaian achieved gave in this extra
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computational capacity which Cartesi application specifically roll
ups gives, so you can run thousand
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more computation effort of computation cycles in
a Cartasic application. Specific that you could
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run an entire Etherium block space.
That gives your possibility to build much more
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sophisticated program right. And on top
of that we put these Linux that has
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a huge gain on programmability. You
can choose your program to develop, your
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small contract, your depth, right. You can use different libraries to compose
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with this program, file tooling,
every tool that is commonly available for a
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developer on the typical Webb to space
right, and everything that we use in
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a Cortesic machine has the same secure
guarantees of Etherium. So our strong foundation
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is still this remarkable achievement of Italian, and we do that using this dispute
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resolution of optimistic roll ups. We
need head it from Ethalium or any other
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layer that we can integrate our technology
the same security guarantees. That's why we
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are modular. Right, We don't
need to implement only top of Italian.
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We can implement on top of Habitraum, optimism and others. Right. Getting
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this composibility of different configurations depends on
the requirements of the application that the developers
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will build. M very interesting and
I'm glad you mentioned the modularity there.
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I've had a few discussions this week
and over the past few months, I've
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been seeing a lot about modular verse
monolithic blockchains and almost like a synonymous term
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to like layer three or other expanding
layers on top of ethereum and the other
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layer ones. Do you see this
as something that's been worked on for a
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few years, it seems like,
but now sort of coming to fruition and
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that modular blockchains are going to be
something that is the status quo moving forward.
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It's it's it's an interesting question because
the whole equisystem is a great,
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great steel in the early days,
and we are still building the infraststructure of
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the tomorrow's blockchain, right. So, so it's a huge experimentation field and
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experimental field. And and what happened
is Etian realize a while ago. And
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that's the advantage of Etian to be
the first one they face problem that other
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monodytic change maybe face in one to
three years. Right. So they realized
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that it couldn't run enough computation,
enough transaction reduced cost of transactions in a
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scale required to get mass adoption with
a world computer that validates every single thing
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that happens in studity, right.
So, so they realize that the way
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would be concentrate in Italian based layer
the most important and fundamental characteristics, which
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is the decentralization of the truth through
the on census, right, and also
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increase the data storage capacity. The
rest a theorial roadmap is reliant to upper
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layers. The problem is the upper
layers that has been built on top of
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Italians so far, the architecture choice
of those layers. They face similar limitations
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of Italium artectual choice. Right.
So they are just now unloaded because they
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are in the early days. With
time they will be easy as well.
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So it's getting another direction that if
you really want scale competition in a level
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that requires to build real world applications
that touches the real world problems beyond just
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the typical financial solutions that we have
seen with the five. We need those
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uh in architectures that are rolled ups
per application right on top of all those
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layers that sits on the very foundation
basis of material right. And I believe
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that this modula solution will be ausd
so very interesting because each use case the
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men's different characteristics of your blockchain.
So if you have a blockchain with only
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one single characteristic, it's very difficult
to fit efficiently all possible use cases,
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so different use cases will require different
characteristics. The modularity give this aspect as
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well plus this city. Right.
Yeah, that's a great point. And
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we've seen a lot of defy applications
that are that are getting pretty big inside
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of the bubble that is the crypto
ecosystem, but we've yet to see some
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that have reached you know, millions
and millions of users outside of Web three
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for everyday people. I feel like
the gaming industry could be one of those
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industries that helps expand Web three into
the mainstream because the market cap of gaming
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is just far surpasses anything to do
with with Web three and there's millions and
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millions of users. Do you think
that that would be could be one of
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the near term use cases for having
ecosystems like this that that need extra storage,
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data availability, things like that.
Absolutely, a game is a very
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good example on how how limited is
the the infrastructure of the abut this moment
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to build very compelling and interesting games. Right, it's not just because the
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game in a blockchain that will succeed. A game fundamentally needs to be fun
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to play and and and and get
have the gameplay dynamics right, otherwise doesn't
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make any sense. And what we
have been seen so far is sent centralized
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games adding a small layer of of
blockchain mostly on on compensational mechanisms or wearables
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or very or very limited usage of
blockchain potential. And by the way,
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those wearables and everything, they are
controlled and minted and have a role on
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the gameplay, controlled by a centralized
logic, which is kind of awkward.
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Right, So having a massive gain
on computation will allow you to build much
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more logic on chain on chain,
meaning in one of those layers that are
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fully verifiable, immutable, and protected
by the concernsus of the blockchain, right,
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So in that sense you expand a
lot what can be done. Right.
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A tical example is one of Cartastic
community members, a super game developer.
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He got a novel chess game.
But the fun part is it's not
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a chess game because chess itself has
been developed directly Solidarity in Italian. But
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this gameplay they put robots AI robots
to battle against each other. So there's
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AI robots is it on Python falling
a strategic So the gamer is actually programming
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his robot to go to the battle. That's the funk bark. So so
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this type of different novel set ups
on gaming, you know, and different
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layers of incentives on how that can
can can get it and how discomposed with
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other games as well machine to machine
economy. So so a lot of interesting
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things that can be built, very
interesting and uh, you know, some
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of these games are huge as well, especially these massive online games or you
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know, with incredible graphics, and
I don't think it could at the moment.
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We couldn't just stick it on ethereum
without the whole blockchain is just breaking.
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So I'm excited to see how things
like these roll ups that you're talking
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about and the modularity help bring better, bigger, stronger games into into web
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three. And I saw recently.
You know, it's not it's not the
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biggest or the fanciest graphics game in
the world, but I saw it's one
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of the most popular. And there's
a reason. I saw a partnership with
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Cartessi and Doom, and it was
like one of the oldest online games that
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became famous. I'm curious on what's
happening with that and what can you tell
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me about this Doom in Cartessi.
Yeah, that was a funny one.
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Actually, it's not a formal partnership
with the with the soft house that created
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Doom's. Doom is an iconic game. It's maybe the cradle of the first
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point at first first shooting games,
right together with Wolfenstein. And that was
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a tweet, a tweet for someone
in the whole blockchain community challenging Theorian right
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saying if a Theorian is the worldwide
computer, is the Internet computer, why
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it didn't manage to run Doom yet, right, which is a valid question,
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by the way, and one one
one developer from our community replied or
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accepted, So here is Doom running
side cortesic virto machine, which is basically
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running on top of it and infrastructure
right with the application specifically roll up.
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So it's the very first time that
not the entire like logic of Doom is
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composed into this Virtom machine and execute
it right. And that gives a kind
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of a flavor teasing what curtastic can
do. You get you get a cold
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from a mainstream of thirty year plus
years developed. You get this code to
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just compile for our version of Linux, and and and and you have you
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have all the libraries on the programming
language everything ready to execute that, right.
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So that shows the complexity of programming
that this virto machine that Courtesy runs
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can handle. And uh, it's
a very open invitation for experimental developers to
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come and do modern entry. Right. Wow, that's very cool. I
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like, I love it. And
with these games that with that, you
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know question why doesn't it work on
Ethereum and the EVM, the Ethereum Virtual
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Machine. I'm curious on how Cartesi
and all of these other blockchains are building.
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It always ties back to the Ethereum
Virtual Machine, which, as you
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said, it's very rudimentary. It
doesn't it can't do all these things.
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But we're building on top of it
instead of building something new. Do you
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think that that will be you know, moving forward for years to come,
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everyone will just continue to build on
ethereum virtual machine. And if so,
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why basically I'll say that the Internet
is composable, right and uh, and
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and and you have this choices off
in tion is not that u as I
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said, Cortez is the only one
in single way swimplement smart contracts on l
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chain, right. So it's uh, it would be a choice of different
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requirements of the application, right,
different economic value of this application. It's
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a trend that Italian based layer would
be much more used for settlement and and
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and storage rather than you run directly
your code there. That would be up
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to players, right, So it
didn't veto machine. It would be extraordinary
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reused for the year's come. Right. And it's a simple Vecto machine by
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reason. For a reason because when
you have this world computer with several thousands
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nodes validating the same computation, you
cannot have for design choices. You cannot
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have a huge computation capacity. So
if you cannot have a huge each competition
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capacity, you cannot put a very
sophisticated Vito machine. You have to bring
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a Vito machine to the most simple, simplistic Virto machine that can allow any
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kind of programming to program to be
created. Full attorney for turning a machine
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right tuning machine. So that's what
what what teating is. And with a
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new language program language, so Cartez
would allow people that wants to do most
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sophisticated things have the ability to do
that. And of course on board millions
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of developers that have languages like Python, Java right to bring those own languages
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with their libraries, with the tooling
to leverage that on on on on the
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on the on the ting e consistent
of using Carte application specifically roll ups.
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It's already happening in all hackatons.
We have people building AI tools. That
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was not was an excellent developer from
Australia called Diane and she developed uh chat
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deputy inside Cartes. So you you
literally implement larger LM model inside cart which
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is which is pretty amazing. Right, Wow, that's very cool. And
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what do you think it's going to
take for that influx of you know,
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we're seeing it gradually, but there's
still so many Web two developers that have
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been developing for the past thirty years
that have yet to dip their feet into
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Web three. You know, is
it the lack of the environment in the
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programming languages that they've learned, or
is there some other barriers entry on why
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we're not already seeing as you mentioned
these decentralized applications beyond finance, other use
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cases that are in industries non financial. Yeah, it's a good question as
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that there's a lot of reasons for
that. It's not on a single specifically
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reason. But as as a stated
on the A sixteen Z release every year
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a very compelling report about the state
of creeple, right, and they did
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it twenty twenty three, and and
the city was very clear on one of
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the really key roadblocks to building use
case beyond the five for blockchains is exactly
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the lack of computation capacity what the
industry called block space, right. So
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Cartas is one of the main key
attributes of our design choices exactly to increase
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massively the block space or the computational
capacity. So we believe freeing that computational
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capacity is one of the very good
steps toward new use cases and more more
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real world applications be built on top
of blockchain. Aside of that, of
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course, there is a an adoption
cycle of new technologies that play around and
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the fact that not every solution application
that you built in the world needs a
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blockchain. You don't need to build
verifiable, decentralized round for everything that we
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do in our daily life. So
that will be things that are blockchainable,
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blockchainizable, and others that no,
it's okay to run your AWS central lives
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with super high performance, with low
to see real time response and et cetera.
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Right, So this is is where
also we need to understand it blocking
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will not completely replace the world of
computing, right m Yeah, good insights,
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and we don't have a lot of
time left Bruno, But I'm curious
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on the next steps of growth for
the Cartesti ecosystem, you know, towards
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the end of this year and moving
into twenty twenty four. What are some
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of the major things on the roadmap? Great, well, yeah, we
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have in the full full adoption mode
were we allow to may net and for
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applications specifically roll up to be launching
main apps is a novel concept, so
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meaning that Cartes will launge an application
called Honeypot on the main apt of Italian
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and stating that our technology is ready
to be used or other developers that wants
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to deply main app right so,
and and we will continue our roadmap increasing
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the usability of the of the technology, former partnerships to extend how you can
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compose Cartes technology to give more toxicity
to different use cases and benefits to different
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use cases. We are in touch
with several very important players and in the
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ecosystem, and that's why I believe
the block chain industry is much more collaborative
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rather than competitive, because different projects
are really good on building specifically blocks that
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will be very useful in the future. So we are in constant touch with
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all those those those players, and
we are open for experimentation, welcoming all
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developers that wants to do modern Web
three with Cartesi using any programming language they
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want. And super excited with the
future. Right so, yeah, very
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happy where we are and and excited
with the next steps. That is exciting.
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And what's the best way for the
viewers to follow along with those updates
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and to learn more about the developer
ecosystem and potentially get involved. Oh great,
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well you they can enterly not out
score, but I also following us
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in our in our Twitter hic prosion. All right, all access in our
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page with all our medias is Cartesio, which is pretty comprehensive, clean page
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that I can give everyone a very
good inside on what is cartesi. So
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we have our telegram communities, so
we have plenty of media to to every
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kind of individual excited with blockchain to
follow us, from developers to enthusiasts.
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Awesome, Thank you so much Bruno
for all the insights into just blockchain data,
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availability, scalability, modularity. This
is something that people that are learning
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this, they're ahead of the curve
and you have great insights into where the
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industry is going. So I'm definitely
going to be following up with CARTESSI.
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I'm gonna put the social links and
the platform links in the description box below
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so the viewers can also follow up
if they want to learn more. I
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appreciate all the time that you've taken
today and let's definitely follow up in the
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near future. Oh thanks, thanks
Ashton, thanks for having me and it
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was a pleasure to have this chat
today. It's really cool
