Ep 5 | Easkey Britton | Water, Healing & Our Relationship with the Ocean | Crossing the Tideline

speaker-0: Before we start, just a reminder, this podcast is about to move off Ain't That Swell and onto its own channel. After that, everything continues on Crossing the Tide Line. Search Crossing the Tide Line wherever you listen and hit follow now. She's live. Also, keep your ears and eyes out in the next episode and on our socials. Our dear friends at Ocean Earth have generously hooked us up with a very special giveaway to help launch this next chapter. More details coming soon. Since the last episode, two more lives have been lost to shark attacks here in Australia. We want to acknowledge both men and send our thoughts to the families and friends of Steve Mataboni and the other man, whose identity hasn't yet been released at the time of recording. One. Food source is here, there, it's that simple. More and more lives will be lost if bullhardy sapers jump into the open sea. Can you imagine? ⁓ hikes the bottom because it looks above to hunt its pride. from Surf Life Saving N S W a non profit Just go to a local cook. It's not okay being scared to have life. This shark attacks happening in my street. I've said it before, if you've seen the beasts I've seen out there while I've been fishing, there's no way in the world you'd be out there surfing. I guess if your totem was the shark, then you'd care for the shark, but then you also care for its habitat. When it's feeding time for them, why would you go and Hello all, welcome to Crossing the Tide Zion Podcast, Brett Bircher here. Today we have Easki Britain. It was so good to hear from Easki, get to know her more and learn from her. I had previously met Esky in Ireland years ago and knew a bit about her, but mostly her surfing performances. I've spent a fair bit of time around her neck of the woods in Ireland, have many friends there, and it's definitely one of my favourite places I've visited. I'm Personally, in the process of renegotiating my relationship with water, and I was given two of her books to read by a friend. I was facilitating at a retreat on the Far South Coast last year, and the theme of the weekend was water and our relationship to it. And Eisky's name kept getting mentioned. Her books have helped me appreciate water and think of it in a new way that has so far been really, really helpful for me. The ocean means so much to so many people and ESCI is really good at speaking about our connection to water and how our relationship to water can shape our behaviours and actions. It's not at all a dense scientific shark chat, barely mentioned sharks really, but water and our oceans are where humans and sharks find each other. This chat was recorded on February 26 at 7am. We've got Easky Britain here today. Welcome to Crossing the Tideline podcast.
speaker-1: You stoked to be here. Thanks.
speaker-0: Now I'd like to begin by asking the guests just to share a little bit about the country and waterways that they're speaking from. And so obviously we've got an international guest here, which is exciting, but you know, it can just be an anecdotal story, a special memory, a piece of cultural history, just anything that resonates with you.
speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ Well, I'll start by where I am in Ireland era. ⁓ and even just thinking about your question, it's our history, belonging, who we are, so tied up with water, you know, to the point that like all our waterways, the original names for all our rivers come from a goddess. So they were seen not named after a goddess, but they were seen as living entities. ⁓ and I was thinking about You know, and there's a lot of happening in the ⁓ moment, I suppose everywhere in Ireland in particular, thinking about identity and place and belonging. And ⁓ it's yeah, so ⁓ I'm Irish and that's yeah. It and in one way we've never we've always been here. ⁓ but yeah, there's been waves and waves and waves of settlers. And one of the earliest stories going back, and I love that we actually still have a record for this, there's a book That was created in the eleventh century called ⁓ the Book of Invasions. is how it translates from Irish. And but it records these kind of early waves of settlers, ⁓ at least in a six or seven. And we're talking, you know, this is somewhere around ten thousand BC. It's probably when we had the first settlements. But there's evidence going back to like over thirty thousand BC, so quite a while. But this origin story is tied up with Cesare. So she's One of our earliest goddesses, but actually came from North Africa. ⁓ was considered to be the granddaughter of Noah. ⁓ she wasn't allowed on the Ark, so she built her own fleet of boats, three boats. ⁓ she filled them up with a mix of mostly women with a a mix of amazing skills and set sail for Ireland, which was known as a land that hadn't yet been populated. So she kind of figured it might be ⁓ it might escape the flood being kind of free from sin because it hadn't been ruined yet. ⁓ and so she landed there with her band of women and three men. And and that's really ⁓ kind of the beginning of it all. ⁓ which I just thought is is pretty radical that we had the seafaring kind of woman striking out on her own. yeah. And then here we are.
speaker-0: That's pretty rad. Yeah. Thanks for sharing.
speaker-1: You didn't think it was gonna go there, did he?
speaker-0: I had no expectation, but I'm glad you did because it's just it's so interesting to hear I ask that just to drop us into it's so interesting to hear things and just feel like how small we are in the bigger picture and for people to just share the history of where they're coming from and it makes you realise that there was so much going on before we were here having these conversations and that there's a bigger, bigger things at play. So it it's it's actually great to hear those insights. ⁓ now you are a ⁓ you're many things, but to put it into a sentence or a couple of sentences, you're a you know, you're a surfer, marine, social scientist, writer, artist, ocean leader. Now I first came across you from your surfing escapades, you know, Ireland is somewhere that's been on my radar for a long time. ⁓ the waves, the people, the coastlines, it's one of the most special places ever. And so me visiting there to surf and to hang out and also just being a fan of anyone pushing the limits in surfing. ⁓ I came across you a bunch of times. And then more recently, I yeah, I mean the reason why I'm doing this podcast is obviously because I had a shark incident and I lost a lot of trust in the ocean and I had to well and I still am r renegotiating my relationship with water and and the ocean especially. And I I was handed your books ⁓ that you read, Salt Water in the Blood and Ebb and Flow. I ⁓ was on a weekend retreat where the actual theme for the weekend was water, you know, and your name kept coming up in the facilitations and some of the open conversations we were having there and ⁓ they were there and I said, Can I just take these? Like I don't know if you'll get ⁓ back, but I'm I'm taking these books. And I read them, you know, back to back. ⁓ and It's really helped me to understand ⁓ my relationship with water, why I why I enter on a daily basis or close to what it means to me and why. Just thinking about my upbringing and how much time I've spent like chasing, surfing and living a cultural I mean a like a c ⁓ coastline lifestyle, I should say. And so and then it's also shown me the importance of a ritual or something you might do before you go into the water. ⁓ so yeah, thanks so much for writing those books to begin with. And then, you know, that was your that was me ⁓ describing you. So can you please describe yourself?
speaker-1: I was so glad you went to try and describe me because I wouldn't know where to start either. yeah, I guess w what I'm most passionate about is is just that understanding our kind of human relationship with water in in all its forms. And I'm especially interested in the shaping forces of water. I mean, w it both, you know, it has such tremendous power. ⁓ is kind of this paradoxal f paradoxical force who causes such harm and destruction and it is a place of real fear and risk and danger. And yet it's like the ultimate healer as well and source of all life. So I just I kind of find that fascinating. ⁓ but my whole life has been shaped around the ocean here in in the northwest of Ireland and born into a surfing family and now having I suppose a well, I've always had that love and appreciation, but really seeing what a gift that was of having this you know, from the moment I was born, really learning it the second language in a way, this language of the ocean. And then that impacting how we lived, which now I see when we're so much of we're struggling with the constraints of with modernity, the the lives we're living increasingly detached from those around us, even as well as nature. But I think with for me with surfing and the relationship I had growing up was that being that really closely tied to ⁓ just paying attention to those cycles, those changes, the seasons, the shifts. I mean all Irish people are obsessed with weather, but especially water and rain. There's that, to be fair. But you know, even I'm just thinking of of tides and patterns and just it that ability to pay attention, I think, and observe those changes all the time, constantly locally where you are, really helps. to deepen that connection to place. ⁓ and I understand that now when I I see us facing into us being, I suppose collectively as a species, facing into this kind of existential crisis as it were, of like, and then really this longing in so many people for how do we reconnect, ⁓ feeling that loss or disconnect.
speaker-0: Hmm. Yeah, and like you love you love to paint, it's pretty clear in the books. So can you can you paint a picture of like your upbringing and how that looked and what moved you into surfing professionally and then got you into this greater work afterwards? Like what were some of the key things that occurred that made you want to study this and and push it out there?
speaker-1: Yeah, I just the incredible luck of being born into surfing at a time when, you know, Ireland was ⁓ it was a real fringe thing. ⁓ my dad was one of the first pioneering surfers himself and his brothers back in the nineteen sixties. He started surfing when he was twelve. And I was out surfing with him today and he's seventy one. So it's been amazing to have that constant companionship and I suppose guidance in the water. ⁓ really lovely kind of mentoring. And my mum surfed as well in her childhood, teenage years. And it was a real lifeline for her too. ⁓ when she you experienced a lot of loss ⁓ early on as a kid in particular. so it's really was woven into the fabric of who we are as a family. and then for me, I guess getting into surfing was also like just opened up this whole other world. Like I live in Dudegal, it's the most rural kind of County in the country, pretty isolated. Not a lot going on when you're like a young kid growing up and you we want to like see the world. And then surfing was this amazing vehicle. for for that through competitions, I was on the Irish surf team from the age of twelve. ⁓ so I got to compete in, you know, European championships, the world surfing games. And then the more I saw of the world and the more people I met through surfing, I the more I wanted to do that. And so it became sort of that. kind of means to that end to kind of escapism in one way, but just this real appetite to want to know more, I suppose.
speaker-0: Mm. And you studied what exactly did you study and where?
speaker-1: Yeah, I kind of had a slightly unconventional path to it. I mean, I I've I've always loved to to write. So I did did well in school in that more academic setting anyway. But I actually I kind of took off as soon as I ⁓ finished leaving cert here at the end of secondary school and just went travelling and for three years on my own solo. I originally think about it now, especially now that I become a mum. but it was the best thing ever. And I I still always had the intention I really wanted to study. I studied environmental science after those three years. ⁓ but the motivation to do that came from as I was traveling of doing a mix of contests and and then just free surfing and documenting my own trips ⁓ and volunteering, doing a lot of different kind of especially marine conservation work, but in more coral reef zones and tropical regions and ⁓ learning a lot about marine ecosystems, but in other parts of the world. And I realized otherwise I spent so much of my time in the ocean at home in Ireland, I actually hadn't I like I didn't really understand how my own waters were doing. you know, and and they're seriously lacking in protection here as well. So wanting to go back and actually reconnect and speak from a place of where I'm from, what's happening in the water, ⁓ how is the ocean doing, and then being able to then I suppose relate to other people's experiences elsewhere. So I came back and studied in the north of Ireland, the University of Ulster. the strategic decision 'cause the university is like a few minutes from the coast. I could live in Port Rush and surf all the beach breaks there before and after lectures. And it was only a two hour drive back home if yeah, if the brakes were working here. So yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, great. Yeah, I think about Ireland and before you said like you're forced to pay attention and the Irish love the weather in general, but it's so the seasons are so harsh. the days are so short, the tides are so big. Like when you're there you really have to be paying attention. And that's on a that there is just my knowledge from a surfing perspective in terms of like certain waves. There the tides are how big in Ireland, like up to How many metres difference?
speaker-1: I guess it depends where, but definitely four meter range. Yeah. ⁓ it changes so fast. And then yeah, with the especially really noticing it now coming up to spring equinox, it's even even bigger.
speaker-0: Yeah, so there's literally waves that you can surf in the morning that will just be full or exp or on the other side of things, exposed rocks in the afternoon. And so I can imagine like because it and it's so hard sometimes to put a wetsuit on and go surfing. So you'd be forced to ask yourself, like, why am I doing this? What what is the per what is the greater purpose behind this? And we have that to an extent in Australia, you know, we have to pay attention. To duck and weave and find the sandbanks and get out of the wind and pick the tides for sure. But ⁓ I feel like over there you would be forced into a deeper relationship. and that's what I kind of want to talk about today is just like what does that deeper relationship what can it and what does it look like and feel like and and how can people sort of use practices and use awareness to for that to happen. ⁓ and so I'm just gonna read a little The bottom paragraph of your ebb and flow introduction. ⁓ I don't know if it's chapter one or intro, but it just says, Like the flow of the water cycle, renewing our relationship with water is a cyclical tale of rhythm and movement, giving and receiving inhalation and exhalation ebb and flow, where water is at the beginning and the end of every cycle of life. Through this book I hope that you will learn how and why you value water, what it means to you, and how it has shaped your cultural identity. So you put that in a book and now can I ask if we can just please put that in a conversation? Yeah. Yeah. So you know what what is it about water that you find so special and you think that a lot of people do?
speaker-1: Okay. Whew. Yeah. ⁓ well I s yeah, that's why I write try to figure that out, tease it out. And it's still not easy to answer. And and I think for me the lens and experience of it has been primarily through surfing, but it can be in any way you come into contact with it. But definitely the the key thing there is that it surfing in itself, it's such a felt skill or experience. Like it's it's in in the body and it's this it takes repeated practice in really unpredictable conditions like you're describing. And it's it's so fast changing. that I think it's it just it speaks to so much of what we're confronted with now in our day to day lives, especially when it comes around this uncertainty and fear we hold of this of the unknown. ⁓ especially in Western society. We're really uncomfortable with that of not being in control. And then surfing in the ocean is such a great teacher of just learning to literally have to physically relax into that uncertainty and not resist it. I mean, that's you know, as every surfer, ⁓ especially big wave surfer will know it's not about this having this power or force or strength even in the water, but rather how do you actually surrender that control. ⁓ if you're trying to hold on to it in your mind, it it's just it's not gonna work. ⁓ so then I I guess now where I'm at, ⁓ and even maybe beyond the the the books I've written is also trying to and maybe what I'm getting at in the book, especially Ebb and Flow, is how can we how does that translate into becoming more fluid and less rigid in our thinking, in how we approach these challenges, and you know, what if our culture represented uncertainty not as a burden, but as this like amazing place to treasure treasure, you know, that's magnetic and alive, the full potential. and offering these insights, these unexpected moments of beauty even. ⁓ and that's what what surfing is, because we're s in occupying this space that's like it's so liminal, like this in between space, ⁓ between the ocean and and the shore. yeah. So I think it's getting more philosophical in my old age. Yeah.
speaker-0: And you speak about like it reminds us of our vulnerability and vitality. And I think this is the this is the big ⁓ or this is a current issue in certainly Australia is that everyone's feeling very vulnerable. Yeah. But is ⁓ so attached to the vitality side of things. And I think everyone accepts the place. the ocean, excuse me, as being wild and I think everyone wants it that way. but in the form of it being wild as in a unpredictable, just in terms of what it dishes up and its elements. But then when you throw an actual animal in there, ⁓ it it it makes that vulnerability it it just changes the dynamic of that vulnerability. ⁓ and so yeah, how does it like remind us of that and how is that constantly at play and what does that do to us? that that ⁓ vulnerability and vitality.
speaker-1: ⁓ it's pretty confronting. Definitely unsettling. And then that becomes very challenging when we're not taught how to deal with that, you know, how to just sit and be with discomfort. ⁓ everything is like increasingly geared towards how do we make everything as, you know, comfortable, productive. ⁓ th well, I suppose in the illusion even of us being in control. I think there's a distinction to be made as well. So you have like on On one level you have the ocean itself and the pull it has on us, why we're drawn to it, how it makes us feel. And I think it's it's quite universal in my experience where I've been working in different projects and people like connecting people with water in different parts of the world, be that for, you know, to tap into the healing and restorative powers of it, or just simply gonna introduce people maybe to surfing for the first time. But that it's this feeling of ⁓ being free, a place that's free of judgment, like that the ocean isn't judging who you are, or there, you know, it's it's that's I think that's part of it. But then there's the lineup that you enter. And that's created by us. and there's a hierarchy of play there immediately. And there's, you know, there's these sort of rules, spoken or unspoken, even of who gets to be there, who gets what waves and this kind of legitimacy where you certainly are judged in the lineup, but perhaps not by the ocean or the wave, you know? And I think in within surf culture, there's a little bit of I don't know, is it ironic that we're on one level so connected and we're so immersed, having this really embodied experience, but there's also this sort of weird detachment from an awareness that we are a part of this sort of living, breathing system. ⁓ and that we're I suppose this feeling of interdependence, like it maybe it does come with that feeling of oneness when you're riding a wave, but the way surfing often gets portrayed or written about or even ⁓ how we understand it in the media, how it's taught, is very individualized. Like you're there, you you have to get develop skills, develop the mastery, you can get the good waves and you know, get the perfect ride. And so it is a little bit of like I guess what I'm trying to tease out here is it the mindset that we show up with. really impacts our experience in the water and the ocean. ⁓ and then that it's not in isolation. It's like surfing exists within a dominant culture that sets these rules that then can also set us apart, even though we're having this maybe amazing immersive nature-based experience, where actually there's this separateness from feeling part of it all that then creates this othering and fear, when we're sharing a space with like not just ⁓ other humans, but ⁓ the more than human world too and other creatures. ⁓ I don't know where I'm going with all of that, but yeah.
speaker-0: Hmm. ⁓ yeah, it definitely gets the mind ticking. ⁓ Well, how did the our oceans form? Like what what are the theories around how the ocean was formed?
speaker-1: Well that's what I kinda found mind blowing is that there's no you know, water being the ⁓ kind of the oldest element that we that we know of, ⁓ older than the earth itself. and there's you know, there's loads of theories about how we became to be such a watery planet, but there isn't any kind of Yeah, it's sort of the the thinking sort of starts to get fuzzy when you try to really even explain what is water. Okay, it's H2O, you know. ⁓ but what does that mean? Where did it come from? And then this ability, like it's such a shape shifter as well. It's like unique ability to respond to its environment. And it's such an amazing you know, its ability to take any shape or form, then carry all this information because it's a as such a powerful solvent. And the even the fact too that the water on the earth is so ancient and also precious. You know, a lot of it isn't actually available at all for us to access. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction for us to drink. You know, so much of it is held in in the rock or frozen or salty. So, you know, you're gonna think, yeah, we're a really watery planet, but it's it's actually super fragile. And it also blows my mind. That it's over four billion years old at least. And all the water that's here is the water that's all ever been here. you know, moving through everything. Moving through us. ⁓ yeah, imagine where it's been before. Yeah. You take your sip from your coffee this morning. Or maybe don't.
speaker-0: And you spoke yeah, you spoke well just before about the vulnerability and how it you know, there's two elements to that and it can be quite like ironic. ⁓ in the vitality side of things, like what is it that makes us feel so good when we get out? Or what what creates that connection that's one half of the vulnerability piece? You know, why do we go in there, feel so good, keep coming back? Like what are the what are the mental, physical, spiritual ⁓ side effects of water of ocean.
speaker-1: Yeah, there's so much there. I feel like we're just scratching the surface. ⁓ in terms of like feel like the science is really playing catch up to that more ancient, ⁓ and indigenous way of understanding the wisdom of water. Like I think that's always been present. ⁓ but it is really exciting to see those come those sort of thoughts, ⁓ cup thought worlds come together. and then it's being embodied in the work of like amazing pioneering surfer scientists like Cliff Capono as well. I always refer to his work, Hawaiian Surfer Scientist and his microbiome, surfer microbiome project. But what I'm getting at there is just how they it it changes us on so many levels, ⁓ especially the more we in encounter water and the ocean and engage with it. ⁓ so at that, you know, physiological molecular level, even it it is altering our microbiome. ⁓ even If we walk by the sea next to breaking waves and we're breathing in those sea spray aerosols, ⁓ that's having effect on our whole biochemistry and it's even impacting us at a cellular level. There's studies coming out now recently in University of Plymouth looking at just that, ⁓ at the healing powers or the anti inflammatory effect of breathing in sea air, which you know, back in In particular in Europe and Victorian times. That's why we ended up with seaside resorts, because they're sending people to the sea to recover from illness. And so they're yeah, even just breathing by the ocean is going to have an effect. And then of course there's the blue mind effect coined by Wallace J. Nichols, marine biologist and ⁓ author of the same book that came out I think in twenty fourteen and ⁓ really altered our thinking around in especially in the Western world and the psychological. benefit and restorative power of water, especially on our mind and our mood. ⁓ and so there's a lot of research now in the last decade in particular looking at that. ⁓ the kind of rewiring hap that happens at a neurological level, as well as that kind of natural high that we get. Like it does act like that quite literally, in terms of how it releases all these feel-good hormones and ⁓ yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's so interesting because as you said, you can feel a lot of those, and then there's now names coined for it, like Blue Mind or Blue Mindfulness, ⁓ which is looking at all those neurological changes that can happen. And they just happen without us even thinking about them. They're just us just partaking in a experience within the water or the ocean just naturally does that. And I think you grow up with such a It's just a natural part of your life to feel that but not know the science or why. And then all of a sudden you're using, you know, as life gets more ⁓ as you get more responsibilities and, you know, you really crave that time and that connection that you have with the ocean. ⁓ and you haven't really been it hasn't been part of your upbringing or your way of life to to question water or the ocean deeply. But you just feel like you belong there and you want to return there. and it doesn't it doesn't take anything away from somebody because they haven't thought that, you know, or haven't had to read about that. It's just like, hey, I feel it, and that's my relationship with it. But then when that relationship starts to the balance between the vulnerability and the vitality starts to change and the fear side of things starts to take more of a hold, and that whole relationship which you quite relied on, and it's become You know, a foundational part of your identity is really skewed and it's you know, everyone in your community or neighborhood has that same feeling. They just don't put words to it, and then all of a sudden that fear shift creates such confusion and reaction. And I feel like that's currently what's occurring in ⁓ a lot of like especially on the East Coast or the southern coasts of Australia, even the west coast. Like certain pockets of Australia have had their time where they're wrestling with this. South Australia's had to wrestle with it for a long time. And you know, it can feel pretty disheartening and it like just you just feel you can feel misunderstood when people say like it's just the ocean, it's just the shark's home in the ocean. So if you don't want to get ⁓ eaten, don't don't go in the ocean. And I think that's that's a really like those sorts of comments From people who do not understand what it's like to have that relationship in the first place and then probably don't know what the ocean provides people is a really hard one to swallow. ⁓ so I'm basically just sort of speaking for the complexities of what a lot of people are going through around the world right now. And it's like, I don't really want to ask like, what do you think? That it's like, yeah, ⁓ what what do you think?
speaker-1: ⁓ it it yeah, it's it's an interesting one, especially and it has been really exciting that there's been so much kind of especially recently in the last let's say decade or so, research and funding interest ⁓ around Blue Health, Blue Mind, ocean therapy. really looking at the sort of the healing powers and benefits of water, especially for mental and physical health, and it's generally being framed really positively. And that narrative is is great to have. Anything that sort of reconnects people with the aliveness of water, I'm all for it. But at the same time, there's alongside that is also the shadow of it. The reality that at the same time, ⁓ that the very force and qualities of water and the ocean that make it so healing. make it also a threat and a place of danger, ⁓ and risk and loss. that's very real. And, you know, on one hand it may be a side of like freedom for someone, and the other it it could be of of ⁓ loss or even like a barrier to that freedom. ⁓ and then the it and then you got the all added layer of complexity that you're talking about, Brett, which is when you know you have this profound connection with it that's literally shaped your sense of who you are. And then that gets challenged. ⁓ and and then or you lose the connection even to something that you know you in a way need. You become dependent on to almost feel the way you want to feel. it it also then that becomes really, really tough. And especially in a I suppose a society or culture that really tends to not embrace complexity but want to look at the black and white. It's like the, you know, good versus evil narrative. It's yeah, it's it's ⁓ it's really just not that simple, is it? The edges are are very blurry. yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, very brilliant. So when my incident occurred, mm my daughter was three months old. And I'd obviously come from this past, like through all my twenties, I w I was like living this pretty idyllic life, which you know all too well, where the f you know, just understanding it ⁓ to your best ability is like kind of what you do for a living in a way. And then that was no longer sustainable. And so I was moving into, you know, that next chapter of my life where it was like, show up to it like be responsible every single day in a in a different way to work, to a family. But I was still somewhat tied to those old patterns of mine. And any spare second I had, I was just wondering like, how could I get that fix or that feeling, you know? And so when I think about the way I was running down to the beach that morning Not like I'm not saying it was me, me, me, but it was just like, all right, I've got half an hour, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna try and fill my cup up with that feeling of like it's like, yeah, can I like I'm still gonna be able to perform on these three or four lefts that I get. Am I gonna be able to do certain amount of turns? And like that was my connection there. It was like it it it gave me energy and it made me feel confident and I loved spending that as my pastime. But it was all about like what I could ⁓ do on that wave and how is that shaping up to how I felt a few years ago. And you know, just just holding on to that part of me that I was not able to spend as much time like massaging, if that makes sense. ⁓ and then, you know, obviously what happened happened, which took the trust away a lot. And so I was I knew I needed to restore a healthy relationship. with the ocean to to move forward and to restore like my overall health. But then the complexities of that with that constant daily fear and incidents happening and the the complications that we're speaking about and the shadow, like the shadow of the ocean was like constantly like hindering my ability and is still hindering my ability to to build that relationship. And so that's obviously going to affect my health as well. ⁓ And you speak about like the impossibility to restore our health without restoring our relationship with water. And I've really felt that. ⁓ if I'm not strong with the water, then I'm not strong anywhere. So yeah, I just wanted to see what you thought of that.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's it's a it's a biggie. And then if you yeah, it's like that how you can Yeah. How do you yes, it's it is about relationships, isn't it? What you're talking about. ⁓ that relational connection. and in a way too, it's like any relationship when there's trust there and then that trust gets broken. How do you rebuild that? ⁓ and in in a in a different way, like your sense of who you are is also completely altered. I think when you were talking, it kind of comes to me to mind, and before this interview too, I was reading a little bit more on ⁓ actually John Seed's work, amazing ⁓ rainforest conservationists. ⁓ spent a lot of time actually he lives in Australia. ⁓ but a lot of his work is around ecological consciousness and how it that it can't be something we intellectualize or know, but it has to be felt and it that it's not knowledge of the earth, but that it's more the earth or ocean knowing itself through you. and so I've been kind of just sitting with that for a while because that's about this having this real embodied contact that you've been talking about. ⁓ but also it means it's to feel all of it. You can't just be selective and ⁓ pick the nice parts and when the earth and the ocean is hurting, like that's that you're gonna really feel that as well. Like it's a lot to open up to. 'Cause it's all so entangled. ⁓ so I don't know, I don't there's no easy answers. but it's definitely about I think in these moments how and how has it been? I don't know how, yeah, for you too to actually We often want fix it or find a solution, but what if we just actually stayed with it, ⁓ sat with it and allowed ourselves to really drop into that place of I suppose the grief of it, the discomfort, fear even. I'm not talking about like a losing yourself to the overwhelm, but rather just really not trying to push it away either, or as you say, just you know, people making sweeping statements like just, you know, move on to something else and do some gardening. Yeah. wow.
speaker-0: Yeah. And you spent mentioned before like people ⁓ can't remember the exact words you use, but you were saying like people thinking about their mind space when they go and enter the ocean or when they're around water. What how can people connect with water in their lives, you know, like directly and as a whole? Like I'm thinking sh drink the water, the rain, the ocean, like what are practices that people can do? to flex that muscle and to build that relationship.
speaker-1: Yeah, I found it really interesting and surprising with maybe both my books of it. Well, obviously it kind of resonating wow with people who already, you know, who surf or or swim, ⁓ a lot of swimmers maybe coming up to me, but people have been doing it maybe their whole lives and then just ⁓ these especially is in Ireland, there's loads of these groups, swimming groups popping up all along the coast post pandemic, ⁓ which was an interesting revelation as well. A lot of it was ⁓ predominantly women who maybe never been in the water since childhood or even had a fear of it. And then there was nowhere else to go socially to connect. All the public pools were closed. And so people had never really even gone on the ocean before since they were kids as adults. We're then finding this experience in a way that was really transformative. Cause it was a time too when we had to keep our distance from one another, but as a species lost that touch, that really like sensual sensory experience of just being held. And so a lot of the feedback then at that time was just. how going into the water and especially the ocean and its saltiness, allowing you to just you know feel held when you enter the water and you're floating in it. And so that kind of real embodied contact and how important that that is. I fan enough attendant. we back here. Yes, how can anyone connect with but my point being there, that was just amazing in Ireland where yes, we're an island nation, but I think collectively for a long time we turned our backs on the ocean and focused much more on on the land and its evidence and and how poorly we're actually looking after the quality of our waters. But there's a shift happening and it kinda especially that was a big turning point, like a a watershed moment, so to speak, with with the pandemic. And it happened maybe worldwide with people going out and paying more attention to nature. But here I think it's altered our relationship with water collectively and culturally. And to the extent then because the pools were closed, the kids they were doing swimming lessons in the summertime, you know, in ⁓ on the beaches and coasts, with like local kids kind of going in the water and then having that connection from early childhood and and changing now, influencing how we even teach our kids in primary schools and starting to pilot these these beach schools, taking kids out of the classroom and and learning by the shore. And ⁓ so all of that is really remarkable. But we're lucky because we have access to it. No one's ever too far from the coast in Ireland. ⁓ but you're asking maybe other other ways and practices. I think especially if you hold a fear around water. ⁓ and I worked with people too in maybe who could didn't have access to water especially during that pandemic time lost that connection. or people maybe were in in recovery or in hospitals, ⁓ yeah, feeling really cut off, especially, or dealing with really high levels of stress and anxiety, and then water based yeah, fears or even trauma around water. And so it's a lovely way to connect. ⁓ with water. It's a very simple practice you can do if you, you know, have running water and you can fill a sink at home in the morning or ⁓ when you get up. And it's a it connects your body in breath and water. And it also helps really regulate your nerves system 'cause what it does is activate the mammalian dive response. So that kind of innate ancestral connection we have with water from ⁓ from how we know first evolved in the ocean. And then as mammals we still hold those kind of Aquatic markers, as it were, that get triggered, especially when cold water hits that part of our face around our nose and cheekbones. So even just splashing your face with cold water, ⁓ doing that a few times can begin to have this calming effect. So activating that blue mind we mentioned. And then with the breath, ⁓ a lovely practice to do is just, you know, you breathe in and out a few times, just becoming aware. Of your body. And then as you breathe in and exhale, I do it with my kids too to build their water confidence. You and just like lower your face and blow some bubbles in the into the sink. ⁓ until you get comfortable then with like completely immersing just your face in the water and then maybe h doing a really mini breath hold for like a few seconds and then coming up. ⁓ and it's it's remarkable just doing that, how it immediately drops the heart rate and It's like a yeah, incredible stress bluster. ⁓ I think especially when I work with people who have a fear of water, if you know they've had a traumatic incident and or maybe even a near drowning. So to have water anywhere near their face, if they're going in the sea and taking them surfing and they splash by waves, you don't want to cr re traumatize someone. So it is a lot of the time it's really just Stripping it back to the essence and meeting people where they're at and going really, really slowly. So maybe it's in a and then sticking with the senses is lovely. Just starting to introduce the sound first. ⁓ then the sensation on the skin, like that exercise I just shared. And then connecting with the breath, you begin to become aware of how the body's responding.
speaker-0: And I think back to your book, you also just spoke about going sitting by a waterway and listening and feeling, you know, so that you just spoke about things you can do to get over the fear. But what about if there's not necessarily an overriding fear, but someone just wants to learn more and understand more about water and what it does to them? Do you have any practices that they might be able to do?
speaker-1: Yeah, there's a a few real simple ones. I the peop people who come up to me, maybe with who'd read the book, it was just this sh very kind of s subtle shift, but just showing up and doing that, maybe just that little check in before you jump into the water. Like I'm so guilty of it going surfing and I'm like ⁓ I'm on look at my watch singing in the and I'm running as fast as I can across the reef before I gotta pick the kids up from school. ⁓ but actually just taking and reminding myself just to take a moment and just become aware of what what energy energy am I bringing? Like how am I what am I feeling? ⁓ 'cause you probably, you know, to just yeah, it makes a big difference. I I think I used to do it a lot when I was competing with like kind of realizing what I what I was doing, but that kind of emotional check in, not not trying to change the emotion or energy, but just bringing an awareness to it. And then it sort of shifts the intention. that I'm bringing into the water. So actually entering the water with an intention. I don't just mean like I I want to do it sick top turn or deeper in the barrel or what you know. The not the technical aspects so much. ⁓ but yeah, they're like the why am I here and how do I want to feel. and then it does really impact the as impacts my experience, but I'm also aware how it impacts everyone's experience in the lineup. depending on the energy I'm bringing into the water. So having an awareness of that can actually really completely alter a session for better or worse. and then as a reset, sometimes too, and especially when you're dealing with lineup dynamics, I was having a conversation with some friends of mine, they're fellow ambassadors on the Finister team. We're having a chat around the upcoming International Women's Day, but just about the kind of, I suppose, politics and lineups. But when you you have a confrontation or c moment of conflict, how do you reset? And it was just these just these little ways that we maybe paying attention to, like you were saying, actually the sound. You were out there in the lineup, but just actually tuning into the sound of the ocean or paying attention to what the birds are doing or the light on the water, or yeah, just paying attention to those little details. ⁓ and it's amazing how much actually in bet the space in between the waves, I could be caught in this monkey mind with this like crazy mental chatter going on. They're like you're gonna realize I'm not at all present. Yeah.
speaker-0: Great. No, you spoke so well about that. I really I really resonate with that check-in before going out. It's something that I am trying to bring to every time I go in. But the same, sometimes you might just have twenty minutes and you run down and almost get a bit cut or I mean that's an Aussie word for like a bit off myself. Because I'll I'll maybe once I'll jump in and I'll start the paddle and go, ⁓ hang on, like you're just racing out like you used to. You know, and so I'll just stop and just pay attention. And I think you put words to that really well on what that's been able to do for me currently. It ebbs and flows. ⁓ pardon the pun. But ⁓ it yeah, it just makes me I think that's just it's just an instant connector because you're like, hang on, what am I up to? Sink in and like just go back into feeling for a second and the difference it can make in like
speaker-1: Ha ha ha.
speaker-0: 10 seconds is quite astounding. So ⁓ I wanted to ask about, you know, indigenous culture's knowledge of water. as I mentioned before, when I do the intro, it's like I like to for that person to drop us into where they are and realize that it's such a big world and there's such a big history and there's so many different things going on. And I think indigenous culture, indigenous culture's knowledge is is part of that. those circumstances. And so you've got examples in your book. I know you referenced the Maori ⁓ repetitively, ⁓ culture. And so yeah, can you just share your knowledge on cultures and their practices and their their knowledge that runs deep long before we had anything to do with it?
speaker-1: Yeah. And I I think in Ireland, because there's been such a revival, especially centered around the indigenous language, the Irish language, this is just kind of re having a revival moment in in that it's entering more like popular culture through, you know, bands like Kneecap and a lot of young people embracing it in a way that certainly wasn't the case when I was growing up. And so it's throwing up then a lot of this, yeah, deeper conversation because the Irish language is underpinning it is is a really ecological language. And I talk about that in in my books as well. And it's still there in a lot of our you know place names and attached to a lot of our mythology that still persists even ⁓ after centuries of colonization. And that for a lot of Indigenous peoples worldwide, a way to really kind of start the suppose that reclamation and decolonization is often through language. And it's fascinating in in in Ireland too how woven, closely woven that is with water, which which I'll get to in a second. But we've also been seeking a lot of guidance and unlearning and relearning ⁓ from other people who've kept that connection alive. And especially like there's been some amazing kind of ⁓ Maori experts come to Ireland, experts in environmental health, but through this Maori worldview and lens, ⁓ as well as First Nations. ⁓ tribes from from the North Americas and Turtle Island. ⁓ so it's been it's been really interesting to see. ⁓ and so I weave I've weave some of those perspectives together in in my book as well just to try to better understand where where we've come from, how we've become so disconnected, especially with water. You know, we're this island nation who all our rivers were goddesses and now over you know fifty percent of our waterways are in such poor quality we can't drink from them, let alone swim in them or, you know, it's yeah, so it's it's ⁓ it's wild. and yeah, then we have a book that was published last year by Moncon Magan, the real champion for ⁓ reconnecting with the language as a way to restore our relationship with nature. And he wrote a book called Ninety Nine Words for Rain and One for Sun. But What that really tells me in in the book is the richness of observations that people had. Okay, there's a lot of rain in Ireland, but that paying attention to the detail of all these different types and qualities of rain and water. And then this we're discovering the same then for of course waves on our coastline. ⁓ and it's happening ⁓ in in surfing here that we've friends of mine have revived the Irish Surf Film Festival. And every year there's a theme for the photography competition. And they use an Irish word that describes an element or aspect of the sea or waves that our ancestors would have ⁓ would have used. And I suppose it speaks to a time when our ancestors who were observing the ocean, watching these waves in the same way that we are now too. You kind of sort think surfing is this ⁓ new cool thing, and we're the only ones who've ever paid attention to waves or surf bricks. But like for thousands of years we've been watching these waves. ⁓ so one example is this word ⁓ a couple of years ago called Faragakotcha. So it it describes the the spray coming off the back of a wave in an offshore breeze, and it looks like katcha is actually what what they would have used to describe when they were harvesting like the the oats in the field and threshing it up in the air and the wind would catch it, and that's how what it would look like coming off the back of a wave. ⁓ or there's another word last year was lunar. So lunner describes that kind of glitter path the sun creates on the water when you're sitting out in the lineup waiting for a wave, you see it. ⁓ and it also is used to the lunnar is used to describe that feeling that you feel in response to seeing that, that kind of feeling of just giddy joy usually. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-0: And so did they use it in ceremony and did they use it for healing? And did they use it I mean, you just spoke then about the language and ⁓ how they've been observing and paying attention for a long period of time, but did they use it in other ways as well?
speaker-1: Yeah, so it's used like there's a crazy concentration of ⁓ wells and springs ⁓ in Ireland. And a lot of them are they would have been you know Christianized, so they're s they're considered holy wells. And so people still make pilgrimages and offerings and but all of that would have been ⁓ building on a more I suppose ancient pagan tradition of going to these as sacred sites. So where there's anywhere a site where the water is coming up from the earth is considered like the navel of the earth. ⁓ ⁓ or these signifies portals to the other world, ⁓ the life source of the of the planet kind of springing forth. And so that's still that's still there. It's they're still very active. ⁓ and then there's a lot of ritual too. There's what are called pattern days. And so people will go to the Easter each well has its own pattern. So it's a particular way that you will walk around it and the particular number of prayers that you will say in a certain direction. And it is considered, you know, it's a religion and a rel religious event, but ⁓ it's also far more ancient. ⁓ so there are things like that, ⁓ where it's still active. yeah.
speaker-0: And did like the Irish feel like they've had a quite a complicated relationship with the ocean. Hey, this is just like a thought that's come to mind. Like I remember I think I remember hearing that like people used to like let's just go back into like the nineteen hundred like early nineteen hundreds. A lot of people didn't swim and it was seen as like a foreign place that was quite dangerous and scary. And it and it kinda is, but like, ⁓ especially you know on on those like autumn or winter days, it's very, very scary place. But Yeah, it was seen like from a lot of 'cause there's a lot of farming in Ireland and I'm only going off sort of your area. You know, there's a lot of farmland that runs straight into the ocean. And a often there's just nobody there other than like the core surf crew who have driven ⁓ to go and surf or who live nearby. So yeah, where did that all stem from? That sort of fear ⁓ of the ocean?
speaker-1: Yeah. There's a huge kind of culture of fear around especially the ocean around the western coast of Ireland. ⁓ I think it was like it's multi-layered. A lot of it's to do with the impact of colonization and it massively creating this huge disconnect. Well, peop from people on land, but especially people in and water. by that I mean that, you know, that it led to I suppose I was trying to think of I'm trying to understand it because you have so much in there in terms of like our ancient history and mythology is so water-based. ⁓ you know, all these waves of settlers were really experienced and skilled seafarers to make that journey across like open Atlantic and to navigate all the way to Ireland. So we had incredible navigators, and then Brendan, a navigator, an early Christian monk, said to be the first who'd sailed transatlantic across the Americas. So, you know, we were we're you know, had a dab hand at the at the sea and the seafaring for quite a while. And even Grace O'Malley in the fifteen hundreds, ⁓ incredible pirate queen who had her own like galley and fleet of of ships and was the bane of the the British Crown at the time and Queen Elizabeth I. So I'm like, what happened? ⁓ I think what happened was there was this huge loss in in knowledge. ⁓ so the massive depopulation happened along the whole western seaboard was the kind of the poorest. ⁓ part of Ireland, but either through forced emigration ⁓ because of ⁓ loss of ⁓ land being thrown off the land ⁓ or starvation then through the ⁓ I suppose in a way at the time state sanctioned famines ⁓ with the the Great Hunger in the around the eighteen hundreds and that just yeah so you had the ⁓ millions of people ⁓ either left or died. And then of course a lot of the leave taking ⁓ happened in what were called coffin ships. And many people never made it across the the Atlantic to America, trying to ⁓ I suppose seek a some chance at a better life. And so this all feeds into a narrative then of you lose a lot of the native Irish speakers, so lose all the knowledge of the intimate knowledge of local ⁓ places along the coast and understanding how waves work and how to navigate was gone, broken. And then you also had just the loss of a lot of people. ⁓ and la again, a lot of that knowledge with them. And so I think it's it's quite complex, but that's part of it. And then not being able to, under colonial rule, under the British, not being able to develop our own our own fleets or have, you know, apply our own sort of seafaring knowledge and skills that was heavily restricted in terms of access, who could access the water and the sea and ⁓ and all of that, I think has a hand to play in it.
speaker-0: Yeah, interesting. now it's a sh it's a shark podcast in a way. Obviously there's a lot of different threads and elements running through, but what is your I guess from a zoomed I'm interested ⁓ to speak to people who are from a zoomed out perspective. And I understand that sh you know you can surf in Ireland. One of the magical things when being there is that you can just run out at any time of the day and night in Ireland and not have that fear of sharks. Because we've we've obviously grown up with the fear of like as it gets darker, it was said that your chances were rising. And it was just it just felt unsafe. And so you always went in kinda early. And not that you stay out late in Ireland, but what I'm saying, like you can just that innocence is there when you enter the Irish water. It's like you versus the elements that you can see, but you're not too worried about what you can't see. ⁓ And but I'm also interested in getting the perspective of someone from there who doesn't have to worry about sharks, and is doesn't have that emotional attachment that we do to what's sort of changing in our in our lives over here. ⁓ you know, because we wanna I think I speak for a lot of people and I'll just speak for myself, but like you I wanna celebrate the ocean, you know, I want to protect it, I want to I just wanna also playing it. I want my daughter and my friends and my family to play in it. so what is your opinion from a zoomed out perspective on how we can best do that whilst also respecting the the dangers within it?
speaker-1: Yeah, and it's just this real respect and understanding. I think the more we know so much of it is fear is based on the not knowing as well. And there's so much we don't understand, especially around sharks, especially which, you know, it's mad considering they're older than trees, ⁓ if you want to put it that way. and just think of the evolutionary journey they've been on. and I often wonder do sharks hold? Do they like pass on, you know, all the accumulated knowledge over all of those millennia or millions of years? and in Ireland, yeah, it's I I think it's it's often not really talked about because people don't want to dig too deeply or track too many great white patterns out in the Atlantic. It's it is an active ocean ⁓ for for sharks. And we have this massive continental shelf. So the thinking is that they're probably just all hanging off out like way out there. And then it's been so heavily overfished. ⁓ but what has been interesting narrative recently, there was a big campaign for to protect basking sharks. So it's some of the most important waters in the world, I think, for and breeding ground for basking sharks, ⁓ who are also heavily fished, especially for their their oil, along with the ⁓ whaling era. And it In a way, it's interesting with the advent of of drones and improved kind of photography in the water, just capturing this most stunning foot footage of their behavior in the waters and they they come in quite close then in the summertime. But that in terms of Ireland's narrative and people's encounters in the water as, you know, swimmers or surfers or it will be with basking sharks. ⁓ and there's an Irish saying called Kosov Lalia von Grenia. So to be as soft or as gentle as a basking shark. So it's you know, it's like the total ⁓ opposite to the Jaws narrative. so it just as you say, yeah, there's just a very different perception. while at the same time we're doing a woeful job at actually protecting our waters. ⁓ so it was a big milestone to get the protection for that species for basking sharks kind of recognized legally. They can't be hunted or harmed. but yeah, there's a there's a long way to go to understanding ⁓ the world we're entering, I think, when we go into the water. ⁓ and even as surfers, yeah, I think always often I'm curious about how we can pay better attention to that because we're really also at the front lines of a very rapidly changing system, ecosystem that needs our help and that we rely on. So it's more that story of suppose the interdependence piece I'm interested in. and I'm especially as a mother too, you know, encouraging my kids, you know, seeing their confidence and independent independence, which tends to get really ⁓ valorized. ⁓ and even how surfing is kind of portrayed ⁓ as this sort of individualized kind of pursuit, but actually it's this really interdependent act and where we jump in the water, we're in this sort of really entangled having this very tangly experience. ⁓ so just yeah, I don't know. It's a mix of of that, isn't it? Of trying to see what's so familiar ⁓ in a in a new way and understand it as best we can. yeah, and I think it all of that comes from when we've been talking about how do you actually we slow down enough to listen and pay attention. Those are the two big deficits that are causing us a lot of pain. ⁓ And I think through surfing can be one way. And yet it's quite easy also to just get caught up in that as a bubble. So how do how do we kind of break out of that and kind of just clean our lens?
speaker-0: Yeah. Now I've got I've only got a couple of questions with you. Thanks so much. I know it's late over there and you got twin twins, three year old twins, so you need all the shutout you can get. but I just wanted to quickly like we spoke about it before and sorry to put you on the spot because it you know it might not be something that can just come to mind instantly. But in terms of like facts of what water does to us, you know, I I actually screenshotted some things, but I've actually put the same screenshot on there twice. So it was like It was a list of ten things, but I've just got one, two, three twice. So it was like, you know, it was just like it was just a post that I saw from somewhere and it just had like ten amazing benefits, ⁓ physically, mentally, to humans just from going in the water, you know, and what number one is seawater shuts down your stress responses within minutes. Yeah. Number two is salt minerals pull emotional tension out of the body. Number three is
speaker-1: Well, I'll see if I can help you guys.
speaker-0: the ocean forces your brain into a blue mind state, which you spoke about before, like a neurolo it says the neurological opposite of burnout. And so, you know, just to really like pinpoint some c ⁓ crucial things that it does for our health would be great.
speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ there's so a lot of it is around, I suppose that like we've been talking about the restoring our attention. It's like those there's that attention restoration theory, but that we it akin, I suppose, to the burnout, but when you s feel like foggy brained and fatigued mentally, ⁓ kind of restores that that clarity. ⁓ part of that I think is that it just holds our attention in that way, same way that looking at the flames of a fire does. It's ⁓ has that calming effect on us and supposed to maybe come from a time when water, closeness to water was essential for our survival and sense of safety as well. and and then also just it's it's a this constant presence, the ocean, but when you're looking at it, it's also always changing. So like creates that kind of holds our attention in the present moment in an effortless way. And like I was saying, even physiologically, the changes it has in in lowering our heart rate, ⁓ impacting our like circulation, the anti inflammatory response is amazing, especially if you have any respiratory illnesses. There's incredible studies you don't know how ⁓ especially for the treatment of things like cystic fibrosis and lungs and breathing in again those sea spray aerosols, ⁓ the anti-inflammatory properties in those, or even how you can you're breathing in the air, like you know after a a wave breaks and there's that kind of like ⁓ haze in the water just above the surface, like suck that in as much as you can. Because you're literally you're inhaling the imprint. It's like this sort of like chemical imprint ⁓ that gets left behind of like all all life in in the ocean. ⁓ so you're definitely breathing it in, you're actually becoming ⁓ part ocean. Then that's then what's altering your your biome even. ⁓ and why it's so important that it has to be this is all contingent on it being a healthy ocean, healthy water. ⁓ so our our health is completely dependent on the health of the water. And I've always I always say that how it's water is this myrrh to how we're doing. we can only be as well as the water is, yeah.
speaker-0: Hmm. Yeah, you had some really cool examples in your book around yeah, PTSD rehabilitation and some of the programs that run in that space. I know there's a lot of veteran surfing spaces where PTSD after coming back from war or serving on the front line and people using surfing and swimming in the ocean to really heal and progress, which is ⁓ so, so cool. ⁓ now I can't let you go without asking. It's coming to the end of winter. ⁓ in Ireland and I know that you are a busy woman, but are you still getting out there? 'Cause I know that you've had some amazing runs lately. ⁓ I saw like just a week or two ago that there was probably a five day window of pumping waves around your area. Are you still getting stuck into it when you
speaker-1: And it's been nonstop this winter. It's incredible. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, I'm still getting in and it's it's my radius of ⁓ running around chasing waves is shrunk. But luckily, like we live in one of the best best parts of the country for waves. So I managed to fit that in between, you know, the place called drop off and pick up. ⁓ but it's it's fascinating because my relation ⁓ my relationship with surfing is totally altered in in kind of motherhood in a way that it just serves a completely different need for me. ⁓ I get like more than enough adrenaline hit from my ⁓ twin toddlers. So I don't go seeking like huge crazy waves anymore. From I just need to feel that's like to downregulate the system, not jack it up, please. so it's very much for like pleasure in actually, but since becoming a mum, probably even have more ⁓ the yeah, the connection has changed as in a different way, but probably have more moments of. For one maybe for a better way of describing it, those moments of flow of just being really in my body. Cause I'm just I guess I just don't really care anymore. I'm not there is I'm not really trying. I'm just out there because of how I want it to make me feel. ⁓ past the performance stage now. ⁓ but really lucky where we live. And then I get a huge kick out of working I work really closely with liquid therapy, who are also based where I live, doing amazing ocean therapy work. So like tapping into some of those benefits we've been talking about, but especially with with young people and and kids. ⁓ and in ⁓ you know in Ireland too, where we've like our healthcare systems really struggling. So this is just an amazing way to kind of tap into what's on our doorstep and create then this ⁓ just really positive relationship with the ocean, but one then it also is so beneficial for for the kids and their families. So it's and it's great to see that happening more and more places around the world too.
speaker-0: Hmm, that's so good. ⁓ thank you so much, Iski. ⁓ really appreciate your time. So nice to hear, yeah, just the all the different aspects of water and how we could learn from you and learn from these practices. ⁓ anyone who sort of resonates with this chat, I think like reading Ebb and Flow and Salt Water in the Blood are just not a must, but they'll really help. And I'll just it just plants that seed and gets you paying more attention. I think once you're paying more attention to water and and if it's playing a big role in your life, then you just start to pay attention to everything that's going on. You start to question things and just be like, ⁓ why is that? instead of just going through that automatic pattern. And so it can be a good way to start. If someone's really interested in water and interested in their relationship and wants to start paying more attention across the board, it can be a good good intro point. So ⁓ yeah, have a great s rest of the season. Good luck with the little kitties and ⁓ yeah, look f hopefully I'll visit that part of the world again someday. And
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, give us a show. Please do. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-0: Cool. Thanks, Aiskey.
speaker-1: ⁓ awesome. Thanks. Give me so much food for thought.
speaker-0: Just want to throw a quick thank you to anyone who has tuned in so far, supported and shared the podcast, messaged feedback and shared stories of their own. That stuff is priceless and so appreciated. So thank you very much. And keep it coming. Send voice notes, send your experiences. What are you seeing at your local? How are your mates and community feeling? What guests would you like to hear from? Also, before I go. This podcast will be moving onto its own platform over the next couple of episodes. I'll keep you posted on how to keep listening in the coming eps. This podcast was produced and engineered by Louis Muller Productions. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, have a great week.