WEBVTT
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:17.359
All right, we are back.
00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:23.440
This is Creativity is the Cure, and today I'm bringing back my very good friend, Tom Shriber.
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:25.039
How are you doing today, Tom?
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:26.239
I'm doing great.
00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:27.519
Malcolm, how are you?
00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:28.160
Hi, everybody.
00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:29.039
I'm good.
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:30.399
We are on the road again.
00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:31.920
We are both headed to work.
00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:34.320
Yeah, I'm on the road.
00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.159
You know, make plans and be surprised when they change, right?
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.159
Is that does that sound familiar?
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:40.880
Indeed.
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:47.920
And what I wanted to bring up is when you were on my show before, you and I kind of were both in limbo.
00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:57.280
We were both looking for a job, kind of drifting at sea, and although always staying positive, we didn't know what was around the corner.
00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.439
Yeah, well, it's an exciting moment to be in between jobs, right?
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:09.200
Because you're just floating on that ocean and and all the things that could possibly catch your interest in that time uh do.
00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:15.280
And so it's a time of great curiosity and continued learning.
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.159
Tell me, what is your new job?
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:23.680
What type of thing are you doing, and what area of the world are you working in?
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:42.640
So right right now I'm on some small part of the Stanford campus, and I get to serve as an early education teacher and work with young people in within a Regio Emilia framework, and it's it's really quite wonderful.
00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:43.680
That's amazing.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:48.319
And what age students are you working with or what grades?
00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.760
Innovators age three to five.
00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.519
Wow, that's pretty young.
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:54.400
It is.
00:01:54.719 --> 00:02:04.959
Over the years, I've worked with all ages, everything from TK up to 12, and I love the age you're working with because they have not become jaded in any way.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:22.479
They're more open to things, they're less aware of other people perceiving them, and when I did music, it was really funny to see them dance because I don't know where these moves came from, but they weren't afraid to just go wild.
00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.719
And it just always blew my mind.
00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.280
What is your perception of that beach group?
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:29.599
I came to play.
00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.080
I was uh listening to that.
00:02:34.240 --> 00:03:18.560
I know you had um Will Lee on recently, and and uh that track of all the all the tracks, that one kind of jumped out to me as an early educator because it really does make the connection between the kind of play we associate with the arts and with music and with the free play of childhood, of discovery, of learning, you know, when we think about young children, we're thinking about young artists and scientists in a pure state of nature, just soaking in the world and and constructing their own sense of how things work.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:29.520
And it runs across everything that, you know, later as adults we're gonna characterize as okay, that's chemistry or that's math, or that's social emotional learning.
00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:31.360
It's just play for them.
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.240
Yeah, and if we can remember to do this as we grow older, that keeps our minds sharp.
00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:37.759
Absolutely.
00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:43.120
What type of work do you do with the kids?
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.840
Are you doing artwork or things beyond that?
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.599
What's a typical day?
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:55.120
It is generally going to start with what in Reggio we call provocation.
00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:59.680
In uh Italian it means something quote we'll have to bring Armando on.
00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:04.479
Um it means something a bit different than it means in English.
00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:21.839
Within the Reggio Emilia framework, uh provocation is uh uh something you put out as a teacher, as a guide to learning, to create questions, to to spur curiosity.
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:26.959
And and so what we practice is an emergent curriculum.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:39.839
That is to say that we we uh study as teachers what the children are learning and what they're interested in, and how we can extend that learning by going deeper.
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.000
You know, it might be learning about water.
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:56.319
Well, then uh is there interest in learning about um what makes up water, molecules, or how water affects our um atmosphere, and we learn about rainbows and such.
00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:15.600
And so it's it's really a free play of uh going deeper and making jumps, and provocations will generally start out as something to interact with on a table, and uh something that creates conversations.
00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:22.560
There are conversation pieces, and and children learn best through experiential learning.
00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.279
And so they're immersed in an experience.
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:33.040
Uh they're you know in the sensory bin, they're uh picking up gooey things, they're they're building things with cardboard.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:35.199
It's it's really great fun.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:35.839
Right.
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:44.079
You're making me think of my friend Lisa Murphy, the educator and author who is seriously into the art and the science of play.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.920
And I must say I have her book on Yes Foundation.
00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.040
It's amazing, and she's a great public speaker.
00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:56.319
For me, I've gone, like I said, from elementary to middle, and now I'm with high schoolers.
00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:23.839
But since I've moved to California in 2013, I'm really up on the constructivist approach, which has a lot of illusions into what you're talking about because I'm about to start a job as the director of a music academy, and I have to build this program from the ground up, and I have everything from kids playing in modern band or orchestra or things like that to choirs.
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:35.360
But my first two days are coming up this Thursday and Friday, and the first thing I'm gonna do is have the kids build out a survey, find out what they're into because I want to give them incentive.
00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:35.920
Yes.
00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:43.360
Like I said, with a constructivist approach, when I ask them a question, I want to hear what they have to say first.
00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:50.399
Well, because number one, it might be better than my idea, and number two, it has to be interactive, just like what you do.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.680
You know, you and I always talk about jazz and improvisation.
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:38.399
Right back to the beginning of this conversation, right?
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:39.199
Right.
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:44.319
Yeah, I mean, what you're talking about might be thought of as the head in in jazz.
00:07:44.560 --> 00:08:01.519
You know, the idea that you start within um the the existing frame and how is new knowledge going to find its way into and find a home within an existing frame.
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:08.240
Uh yeah, that's very much what we what we mean when we talk about uh extending a child's learning.
00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:17.759
It's building on what they already know and what more can be fit within that those paradigms.
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.199
And of course, sometimes you create a whole new paradigm.
00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.279
That's that's particularly exciting.
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:44.720
And I love your metaphor of jazz and playing the head because I'm laughing because I'm thinking, all right, we get to school, we all at the beginning of class, we play the head, we play the melody, and then each kid takes a solo, blows over the changes, but we all have to support them in playing the chords and listening and paying attention and reflecting back.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:50.960
If somebody does a riff, we echo back, and then we all come back together at the end to play the head.
00:08:51.120 --> 00:09:08.799
And may I suggest to everybody there's a great Herbie Hancock song called Maiden Voyage, and I think for you and I, as we head into the year and teach these kids, we're definitely on a maiden voyage on myriad levels.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:10.080
Would you agree?
00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:13.840
Abs absolutely, absolutely.
00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:24.000
To be a teacher, and that is to say, a guide to learning, it's really about co-learning.
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:38.320
I think that's where you can offer the most and and be that supportive scaffolding guide to learning, is you're you're right there along you're in the front row seat.
00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:40.879
So you experience things together.
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:47.600
You experience things through the the learner's eyes and what they're communicating back to you.
00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:50.720
That is the full experience.
00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:59.279
I'm sitting here at a quiet place, uh, Stanford Cactus Garden, which is a nice little place on the campus.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.279
I like to come to reflect and write.
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.320
I used to come here with my children when they were young.
00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.399
Um, we used to just go out and discover would be the frame.
00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:09.440
Let's go discover.
00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:22.639
And uh it was it was a place of free play and discovery, and you know, in this case, learning about cactuses or cacti, however you choose to say it.
00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.360
It's nice how things come around again.
00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:27.919
Let's leave with this message.
00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:35.919
Let's you and I go to work today, but let's not lose that frame of mind that your three to five-year-olds have going on right now.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:43.279
Totally open, totally open to play, not judging, not being jaded, just being open to everything in life.
00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:49.039
Let's play the melody, let's do some solos, and that's then let's come back together at the end.
00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:50.159
What if?
00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.519
What if, right?
00:10:51.679 --> 00:11:06.480
That's the I I think uh here in in Silicon Valley, that that framework, that mindset, uh a growth mindset is so fundamental to possibility and what can be.
00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:17.759
And it's you know, it's really our privilege to be able to uh embrace that and as much as possible to live in that space.
00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.759
Tom Schreiber, always good to talk with you.
00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.960
Good luck today on your maiden voyage, and let's make sure we return again soon.
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:30.000
How does that sound?
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:41.279
And and absolutely, Malcolm, and to you too, as you uh embark into those new waters and such an exciting program and opportunity for you.
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.600
It really feels like a perfect fit.
00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.000
All right, signing off from Van Nuys, California.
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:49.600
Always good to talk to you, Tom.
00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:54.399
And signing off from the Stanford, Arizona Cactus Garden.
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:56.799
A pleasure, Malcolm.
00:11:57.039 --> 00:16:54.159
Have a great day.com.
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:59.919
That is J E F F E R S O N D E L E O N E.com.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:17.359
All right, we are back.
00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:23.440
This is Creativity is the Cure, and today I'm bringing back my very good friend, Tom Shriber.
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:25.039
How are you doing today, Tom?
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:26.239
I'm doing great.
00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:27.519
Malcolm, how are you?
00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:28.160
Hi, everybody.
00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:29.039
I'm good.
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:30.399
We are on the road again.
00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:31.920
We are both headed to work.
00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:34.320
Yeah, I'm on the road.
00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.159
You know, make plans and be surprised when they change, right?
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.159
Is that does that sound familiar?
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:40.880
Indeed.
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:47.920
And what I wanted to bring up is when you were on my show before, you and I kind of were both in limbo.
00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:57.280
We were both looking for a job, kind of drifting at sea, and although always staying positive, we didn't know what was around the corner.
00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.439
Yeah, well, it's an exciting moment to be in between jobs, right?
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:09.200
Because you're just floating on that ocean and and all the things that could possibly catch your interest in that time uh do.
00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:15.280
And so it's a time of great curiosity and continued learning.
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.159
Tell me, what is your new job?
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:23.680
What type of thing are you doing, and what area of the world are you working in?
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:42.640
So right right now I'm on some small part of the Stanford campus, and I get to serve as an early education teacher and work with young people in within a Regio Emilia framework, and it's it's really quite wonderful.
00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:43.680
That's amazing.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:48.319
And what age students are you working with or what grades?
00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.760
Innovators age three to five.
00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.519
Wow, that's pretty young.
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:54.400
It is.
00:01:54.719 --> 00:02:04.959
Over the years, I've worked with all ages, everything from TK up to 12, and I love the age you're working with because they have not become jaded in any way.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:22.479
They're more open to things, they're less aware of other people perceiving them, and when I did music, it was really funny to see them dance because I don't know where these moves came from, but they weren't afraid to just go wild.
00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.719
And it just always blew my mind.
00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.280
What is your perception of that beach group?
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:29.599
I came to play.
00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.080
I was uh listening to that.
00:02:34.240 --> 00:03:18.560
I know you had um Will Lee on recently, and and uh that track of all the all the tracks, that one kind of jumped out to me as an early educator because it really does make the connection between the kind of play we associate with the arts and with music and with the free play of childhood, of discovery, of learning, you know, when we think about young children, we're thinking about young artists and scientists in a pure state of nature, just soaking in the world and and constructing their own sense of how things work.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:29.520
And it runs across everything that, you know, later as adults we're gonna characterize as okay, that's chemistry or that's math, or that's social emotional learning.
00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:31.360
It's just play for them.
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.240
Yeah, and if we can remember to do this as we grow older, that keeps our minds sharp.
00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:37.759
Absolutely.
00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:43.120
What type of work do you do with the kids?
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.840
Are you doing artwork or things beyond that?
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.599
What's a typical day?
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:55.120
It is generally going to start with what in Reggio we call provocation.
00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:59.680
In uh Italian it means something quote we'll have to bring Armando on.
00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:04.479
Um it means something a bit different than it means in English.
00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:21.839
Within the Reggio Emilia framework, uh provocation is uh uh something you put out as a teacher, as a guide to learning, to create questions, to to spur curiosity.
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:26.959
And and so what we practice is an emergent curriculum.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:39.839
That is to say that we we uh study as teachers what the children are learning and what they're interested in, and how we can extend that learning by going deeper.
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.000
You know, it might be learning about water.
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:56.319
Well, then uh is there interest in learning about um what makes up water, molecules, or how water affects our um atmosphere, and we learn about rainbows and such.
00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:15.600
And so it's it's really a free play of uh going deeper and making jumps, and provocations will generally start out as something to interact with on a table, and uh something that creates conversations.
00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:22.560
There are conversation pieces, and and children learn best through experiential learning.
00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.279
And so they're immersed in an experience.
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:33.040
Uh they're you know in the sensory bin, they're uh picking up gooey things, they're they're building things with cardboard.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:35.199
It's it's really great fun.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:35.839
Right.
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:44.079
You're making me think of my friend Lisa Murphy, the educator and author who is seriously into the art and the science of play.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.920
And I must say I have her book on Yes Foundation.
00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.040
It's amazing, and she's a great public speaker.
00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:56.319
For me, I've gone, like I said, from elementary to middle, and now I'm with high schoolers.
00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:23.839
But since I've moved to California in 2013, I'm really up on the constructivist approach, which has a lot of illusions into what you're talking about because I'm about to start a job as the director of a music academy, and I have to build this program from the ground up, and I have everything from kids playing in modern band or orchestra or things like that to choirs.
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:35.360
But my first two days are coming up this Thursday and Friday, and the first thing I'm gonna do is have the kids build out a survey, find out what they're into because I want to give them incentive.
00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:35.920
Yes.
00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:43.360
Like I said, with a constructivist approach, when I ask them a question, I want to hear what they have to say first.
00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:50.399
Well, because number one, it might be better than my idea, and number two, it has to be interactive, just like what you do.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.680
You know, you and I always talk about jazz and improvisation.
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:38.399
Right back to the beginning of this conversation, right?
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:39.199
Right.
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:44.319
Yeah, I mean, what you're talking about might be thought of as the head in in jazz.
00:07:44.560 --> 00:08:01.519
You know, the idea that you start within um the the existing frame and how is new knowledge going to find its way into and find a home within an existing frame.
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:08.240
Uh yeah, that's very much what we what we mean when we talk about uh extending a child's learning.
00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:17.759
It's building on what they already know and what more can be fit within that those paradigms.
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.199
And of course, sometimes you create a whole new paradigm.
00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.279
That's that's particularly exciting.
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:44.720
And I love your metaphor of jazz and playing the head because I'm laughing because I'm thinking, all right, we get to school, we all at the beginning of class, we play the head, we play the melody, and then each kid takes a solo, blows over the changes, but we all have to support them in playing the chords and listening and paying attention and reflecting back.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:50.960
If somebody does a riff, we echo back, and then we all come back together at the end to play the head.
00:08:51.120 --> 00:09:08.799
And may I suggest to everybody there's a great Herbie Hancock song called Maiden Voyage, and I think for you and I, as we head into the year and teach these kids, we're definitely on a maiden voyage on myriad levels.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:10.080
Would you agree?
00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:13.840
Abs absolutely, absolutely.
00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:24.000
To be a teacher, and that is to say, a guide to learning, it's really about co-learning.
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:38.320
I think that's where you can offer the most and and be that supportive scaffolding guide to learning, is you're you're right there along you're in the front row seat.
00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:40.879
So you experience things together.
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:47.600
You experience things through the the learner's eyes and what they're communicating back to you.
00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:50.720
That is the full experience.
00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:59.279
I'm sitting here at a quiet place, uh, Stanford Cactus Garden, which is a nice little place on the campus.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.279
I like to come to reflect and write.
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.320
I used to come here with my children when they were young.
00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.399
Um, we used to just go out and discover would be the frame.
00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:09.440
Let's go discover.
00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:22.639
And uh it was it was a place of free play and discovery, and you know, in this case, learning about cactuses or cacti, however you choose to say it.
00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.360
It's nice how things come around again.
00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:27.919
Let's leave with this message.
00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:35.919
Let's you and I go to work today, but let's not lose that frame of mind that your three to five-year-olds have going on right now.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:43.279
Totally open, totally open to play, not judging, not being jaded, just being open to everything in life.
00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:49.039
Let's play the melody, let's do some solos, and that's then let's come back together at the end.
00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:50.159
What if?
00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.519
What if, right?
00:10:51.679 --> 00:11:06.480
That's the I I think uh here in in Silicon Valley, that that framework, that mindset, uh a growth mindset is so fundamental to possibility and what can be.
00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:17.759
And it's you know, it's really our privilege to be able to uh embrace that and as much as possible to live in that space.
00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.759
Tom Schreiber, always good to talk with you.
00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.960
Good luck today on your maiden voyage, and let's make sure we return again soon.
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:30.000
How does that sound?
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:41.279
And and absolutely, Malcolm, and to you too, as you uh embark into those new waters and such an exciting program and opportunity for you.
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.600
It really feels like a perfect fit.
00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.000
All right, signing off from Van Nuys, California.
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:49.600
Always good to talk to you, Tom.
00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:54.399
And signing off from the Stanford, Arizona Cactus Garden.
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:56.799
A pleasure, Malcolm.
00:11:57.039 --> 00:16:54.159
Have a great day.com.
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:59.919
That is J E F F E R S O N D E L E O N E.com.
