Katie: that plan is not meant for you, you will always be thrown off course. And I've learned that in the last year. a customer told me this when I was working in a coffee shop, your career is made up of stepping stones and you decide where you place that next stone. So it's not this map that everyone has and you're trying to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: work out where this secret map is stored. You are the only person who can build your career path so if something doesn't feel right it's down to you to work out what's next. I'm Katie, run Studio Goodwick, it's a freelance social design independent studio. it's just about doing design for good. So always making sure that it's for people and it's doing things that matter. It changes behaviors and it makes people think. So it's a bit deeper than just your nice visuals, which as designers we all appreciate, but. It's the stories and the connections underneath that are like my main focus
Heather Ebanks: I'm joined by Katie Price, social designer, strategist, researcher, multi hyphenate creative, and a founder of Studio Good Work, a practice quietly reshaping what it means to build a career on your own terms. Katie works in social design, where the focus isn't just aesthetics or output, but people, systems, behavior, and the deeper why behind how things function in the real world. Her work sits between strategy and empathy, research and intuition. Structure and uncertainty. But this conversation really isn't about design. After being made redundant twice, she was forced to step outside of an industry she once aimed for. Instead of rushing back in, she began rebuilding differently through reflection, honesty, and refusal to shrink herself to fit something That no longer felt aligned. In this episode, we talk about social design as a tool for meaningful change, while the human why matters more than aesthetics, and how creative industries Can quietly reward competition over connection. We explore burnout, identity, and what it means to separate your worth from your job title. We also unpack the idea of the career path and why Katie sees it less as a straight line and more as a series of stepping stones you choose in real time.
Katie: understanding people's why is a big part of my work so it's that immediate like I've got this idea okay well why yeah part of my a lot of it does come back to my masters I learned to be quite annoying on my masters I suppose
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: I am always the person in the room to be asking why, not just once, but like five times, like a toddler, I will just ask until we get to the root. And I think that's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: the beauty of social design. Like I can help people uncover things that they didn't necessarily know themselves. Like it's just about having those conversations and helping
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Katie: people unpick their ideas first and then making
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: sure that everything is rooted in the research. Like we've got
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: contextual research. and we might speak to people but for me there's a level of theoretical research that needs to come with design especially working on design for good projects so a lot
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Katie: of it is behaviour change
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: or universal sign transition design like
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: there's theories that we need to be paying attention to especially when we're designing for intersections of society like we need to be mindful of a lot
Heather Ebanks: Mm hmm. Well, that
Katie: So.
Heather Ebanks: sounds really interesting, because I think, I think everyone with a working in whatever type of business needs what a social designer because it sounds like that's because some people are missing that kind of part of their process with regards to whether it's a project or because you know, the route, like you say, the why is important. And some unfortunately, some people kind of skip that part of the design process.
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: when you hear the words bold voices, messy journeys, zero apologies, which part of your journey does that resonate with the most?
Katie: I was made redundant and coming out of that and not worrying about the next step for me and how I went about working out what the next step was, felt when I was first made redundant I was like I can't say certain things.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: Just because I didn't want to upset companies that I'd worked for in the past. Ultimately, I lost my job and the bold voices and the messy journeys, like that last year, I need to be loud now and there's a way that I can do it that's not in everyone's faces but just honest, I suppose. I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Katie: being really clear about my experience of the industry.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: because it's not, you get out of uni, you land that first job and everything is plain and sane from there. In fact, that's quite like a unicorn experience, I would say. But especially in my books,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah,
Katie: like, to redundancies and the toxic workplace, I'm done appeasing people in the industry.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: It needs to change and unless we talk about it, it's not going to. So
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I'm putting my... put my foot down and I'm like, I'll be loud. Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Yes. Good for you, definitely. yeah, I definitely can relate it's a bit like everyone knows someone who's been redundant, it's a common thing, unfortunately. And yeah, it's also kind of pull it to like, was it five or six stages of grief or something. And I think go through the anger, know, your frustration and the grief and the depression and you don't realize that until, you zoom out and then you realize, oh, that that's what happened to me and it's takes a while to recover. So yeah,
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: we're all recovering from redundancy at some point in our lives.
Katie: Yeah, none of us come out unscathed.
Heather Ebanks: No, definitely. But you know, what hurts us makes us stronger, as they say.
Katie: Absolutely.
Heather Ebanks: And I looked at them, I think you had a substack This was quite interesting. I saw what a mindful minute and I'm going to read it out because I think this is very relevant. It says, don't ever attach yourself to a person, a place, a company, an organization, or a project. Attach yourself to a mission. calling a purpose only. That's how you keep your power and your peace. Yeah, that one really resonated with me. And at what point in your journey, do you realize that attaching your identity to a job or company could be risky?
Katie: I think it was again, unfortunately everything comes back to last year, which
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: now, blessing in disguise, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: to have what I thought was a permanent full-time well-paid job. And you know, I was financially sustainable. I had social plans like every week and I loved the job down to its bones.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: But when that went, everything went with it. And some of that is the relationships. Obviously, you may be close to someone out of convenience because you
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: work together in the same office and there's nothing wrong with that. And I would never hold anything against people for not staying in touch as much. But the reality is you're not as close anymore or
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: things like I was a mid-weight designer and I was constantly pushing to... bridge the gap between the
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: creative team and the engagement team. That's where my
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: social design knowledge sits. But
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Katie: when that goes, you're like, how do I navigate this now? That is how I was sort of defining my purpose as a social designer.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Katie: That's where I would sit. But when
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that goes, where do I go? Where do I belong now? And
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I think for me, it took... up until kindling last year so
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: for those who don't know kindling is the Christmas event that state and I hosted and we now host seasonal events because there's such a hoot
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: but it took up until that point for me to realize I wasn't meant to be doing that and I'm now
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: following my purpose so when I think it was like September last year me
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: and Stacey again, we're like freelance, work our lives out kind of accountability pals.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: We sat and like we've got to do something, we can't just sit around and like mull over what the next thing is going to be. So
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: I was like right well I'll give freelancing a go, I did it before but I did it straight out of uni, I didn't understand everything that was going to come with it.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: So I said, well, now is my chance to do good work and push the social design aspect of my job. I still
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: use graphic design, but I use it to navigate the world of social design. It's more of a tool than I am a graphic designer. And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: that's sort of how it started to come about. was a downward
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: spiral and then working out how to come out of it. But letting go of that
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: everything and that relationship to that business
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: was the only way that I could move forward and focus on
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: my mission and what I wanted to do, which is good work for good people.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, I think that's a good tip for people who are think that there's no way out of a redundancy. And it's kind of almost like a blessing in disguise where, yeah, this is a horrible situation, but you need to focus on other aspects of your life you got multi talented people out there who got so many different skills, and you've tapped into your your transferable skills that you could use that, for good as well. And you've doing other projects and think, I know it's hard because most people are in their nine to five and they're there for a big part of their lives, but always have something going on that you're passionate about because no job is secure anymore, that's just unfortunate. That's just the way it is. And, but yeah, if you put all your eggs in one basket, unfortunately, that identity of yours. might get swallowed in your nine to five, unfortunately. but yeah, that sounds good that what the direction that you're going in as well. So I just want to talk more about your career and, and I think you brought this up and we went recently to an event that I attended with you. It was a design Swansea and you did a presentation there. And I know we talked about with redundancy the past and the present and what you do in the future. But I like the way that you reshaped it and I'm going to use your words. It's like you talked about reflection, refocus and reshaping. So I've got a few questions about those topics. So regards to reflection, what did that reflection reveal about how much you, your identity was tied into your job? Is there anything that you realized? from the past that you can put into your present today, do you think?
Katie: Yeah, for me, because where I used to work was a dream agency that I wanted
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: to work at. It was always like, well, I work there and that's the best thing. And obviously when that was gone, it was like, well, where do I work now?
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: Yeah, it's... It's looking back and realising that I wasn't focusing on what I was doing as much. I was proud to say I worked for a certain company. But when
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: that goes, everything goes with it.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: yeah, to look back and realise what were the things I was proud of that I achieved in that job. And then taking those things into my sort of refocus stage.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: That was really helpful because I was proud of the work I was doing and the connections
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I was building and whether I'm with that company or not I still did the work and I still have those connections.
Heather Ebanks: definitely. And for someone who's like avoids reflection, because sometimes it's painful to go back and think about those times that, they felt really low. It can feel overwhelming. how would someone start to get out of that situation of feeling, you know, lost or overwhelmed? How how they begin? Do you think?
Katie: I think, and it does sound very cheesy, but the whole idea of having to go through it, to grow through it. Had I not
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, definitely.
Katie: sat in the pits for months, and I mean, it was hard. I did struggle
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: to get out of bed and I didn't speak to many friends and I lost a lot of my confidence. But
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: had I not gone through it and reached a point where I was like, I can't keep doing this. because nothing good is going to come from it, where can I, like what can I look back on and where can I pinpoint patterns then? Because this wasn't the first redundancy either, so
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: like where can I pinpoint things and realise what's going wrong and where and how can I reshape my practice to make sure that doesn't happen again? And at the moment,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah.
Katie: that was coming to the realisation that Okay, I've been made redundant twice. It's been down to budgets or funding or
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: financial stability. how
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: moving forward can I make sure that doesn't happen again? And at the minute that looks like working for myself and controlling my own
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: income. yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, and even if people who listening might not want to start their own, you know, practice or business after being made redundant. I think I watched a few videos and there's one designer from America made this point about making sure that you're kind of prepared for the inevitable, for example, make sure that your resume or your CV is up to date. Have a kind of a kind of a conference or a chat with yourself and say, what have I achieved within two, three months? keep, your hand into other projects, as we said before. so when you, and also that network as well as important and community. So make sure that you're not just relying on that, that company in that business. you've got that network to fall back on and that, you know, again, going back to the. eggs in the basket situation. but yeah, and from reflection, you mentioned it and you touched on it, refocusing. So how do you shift from being attached to a role to being anchored in purpose? Do you think?
Katie: I think from being attached to an employed role, it's going through that grief stage of it not existing anymore. And that
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: can't just be the end.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: I come from South Wales Valley, so I live in Merthyr. And in school we were told that we would never go on to do creative careers because we're from the valleys. And
Heather Ebanks: What?
Katie: we're not... you know, meant for those things. We're meant to do the
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: retail jobs, the coffee shop jobs, the blue collar, white collar jobs. And for me, was like, I've worked so hard to get to this point. I didn't go out very much in uni. I was in uni at half past eight in the morning. No one else was, but I was there. And I would work on the weekends and I was doing everything I could to train to be this great designer.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: There are people much better than me, but constantly working on my ethos and I was working so hard. I was like, I've not come this far to lose all of that. Still be
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: paying the uni debt for a start
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: and have no plan of what comes next. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Katie: for me it was like, well, I've learned a lot and I've built a lot of skills and I've really nurtured. relationships whether that's in my industry or with clients that is a lot of work to just let go and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I think stopping and reshaping and refocusing to realise well not everything is lost I have
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: a lot that I can still focus on it's just not with the same it's not sitting in the same context anymore. And in order
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: to grow, things need to change. So how do I make it change? And that's sort
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: of the way I was taking that next part of my talk then, is talking about change
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: and realizing change will have to happen. Because if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. And also now the reshaping part of this is, how, what parts of yourself did you discover when you were, when you started to reshape your, your direction, your path in your career? Was there anything that you realized about yourself compared to what you went through?
Katie: Yeah, I think this time last year I would have been so quick to be like, I am so sorry, bad is on me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: Like I was so quick to appease. Like I wouldn't be in the wrong, but I would put
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: myself in the wrong to make other people feel comfortable. And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: in the last year, obviously starting Studio Good Work and doing things for myself, it's like, well, if I don't do it, no one's going to do it. I'm really going
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: to have to, you know. dig deep and find that confidence because I've
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: never been a confident person ever like going back to school I was very quiet and I was one of those kids that so long as teachers said I was doing well then great I was doing well I am now my own boss and now I've got to tell myself I'm doing well because if you don't back yourself
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: no one else is going to back you in this game so Yeah, realising that I just had to really value myself and I suppose
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: sweetly in Kindle last week my partner got up and spoke, because I had put him on the spot
Heather Ebanks: you
Katie: and he said, she doesn't, even now I still don't give myself enough credit, I'm doing it more
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: but still not as much as I probably should be doing and it's constantly reshaping myself to be more confident, put myself out there.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: I was always afraid of getting a no. Well if I get
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: a no, I've not lost anything because I didn't have it in the
Heather Ebanks: No.
Katie: first place. there's everything to gain and nothing to lose. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: I think I've just reached a point where I'm like, 27. Your 20s are an opportunity to explore things. I'm very
Heather Ebanks: Yes, definitely.
Katie: fortunate to live at home. If I don't give things a go now, I may never have this opportunity again.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: So it's my market research era, shall we say. Yeah, just working things out and also not being too perfect about it. Like building it, letting it exist and developing on it the next time.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: Because I'm such a perfectionist to just not post. My socials are dead,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Katie: as you may have seen. So just letting things exist and then developing them in front of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: people and welcoming people into that process. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: it's a lot about in some terms putting myself on blast and just opening myself up to critiques
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: and welcoming that feedback.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: Yeah, so a learning curve.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah, definitely. think I can relate to the, trying to get it right, get it perfect. And definitely in the past few several years, I've definitely wanted to experiment and, see what happens. and I've taken a lot of people might call it risks or being brave, but I just think, just get on with it, And like you say, no is not necessarily no, might be a no for now. other doors will open and you'll probably take you in another direction. But then again, that direction might be interesting and might be a different way for so experimenting, trying things because, as we said, the redundancy was something that kind of knocked people into reality that you need to not rely on just one. source of income. Now, I think you mentioned about a portfolio career was one of the things that you came up so what is your portfolio career?
Katie: So alongside Studio Good Work, I am an Associate Lecturer in Cardiff Metropolitan University on the Graphic Design
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: course. So I'm currently helping students with their Dysprep for next year, which
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Katie: is very strange because six years ago, seven years ago, a few years ago, I was back in that position. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: then obviously I've got Kimlin, so I've got the event space that I co-host with Stacey. Now, Kindle isn't necessarily making any money. It's purely because we want to build that connection. We want to build those events to bring people together. But it takes
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: up such a big part of my workload that it feels only right that if I'm not getting paid for it, I at least take the credit where it's due. It's more of a volunteering space at the minute.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: then yeah, the lecturing and studio good work doesn't just offer design. So I'm a social designer. So research is a big part of what I do, whether that's desk research or understanding and consolidating insights and helping. creative teams understand those in a tangible way and also designing the workshops that we do to make sure they feel... what's the word? authentic
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: to the audiences that we're working with.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: So I do a lot of things. Studio Good Work houses a lot of it, just
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: because it's easier to say that. But I'm also enjoying speaking more, which is a very scary thing for me. This time last year I would never have done this, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: yeah. pushing myself out of my comfort zone. I want
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that opportunity to grow. I keep adding
Heather Ebanks: you
Katie: titles to the end of the list. But yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, I feel that's the norm now. Everyone's got more than one title to their to their CV. with all this going on, How do you decide what deserves your attention when everything feels all important at the same time?
Katie: I think, especially in the last couple of weeks, because I've had speaking, I've had client work, I've had lecturing, I've had it all in the last couple of weeks. Ultimately,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: the paid work has to be prioritised because I can't keep doing everything else if I'm not doing paid work. So
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I'm fortunate that my lecturing days are a set day.
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Katie: the rest of the week that I can break things up. So Kindling has come to an end for this season so that's no longer on my list.
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Katie: So right now is Studio Goodwick
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: and The Lecturyn but I've got those threads that I can pull as and when, if that makes sense, so it's not everything
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. It does, yeah.
Katie: is always all go at once.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: So when the lecturing stops, I'll put more energy into studio good work because the students are off for three months. I need to fill that time. But
Heather Ebanks: Right, I see. Yeah, yeah.
Katie: then when the lecturing picks up, if studio good work is quiet, it doesn't really matter because the lecturing
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: is there. So there's always at least two strands on the go. So it's
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: either putting money in the bank or it's filling my cup up and building connections so
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that I can. bring more money in studio good work and then go off and do the projects that are creatively fulfilling, they're for good. So it just feels like I'm constantly pulling on these like strings. It's a bit of a fine art,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Katie: I've not quite mailed yet, but yeah, it's fun.
Heather Ebanks: But what's the hardest part of like juggling and managing all these multiple streams? The work that people don't normally talk about, what's behind all of that that's difficult?
Katie: I think for me it's the running of Studio Good Work, so working on the business, not in the business, or on the service, not in the service, because I'm not mathematically gifted by any stretch of the imagination. So the minute finances and all the legal things come into play, I really struggle and I get myself into quite a knot because... I want to do everything right.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I'm a freelancer, so I've got fears that I can mean on, but there's no one else in Studio Good Work to go, let me take that off you so you can focus on everything else.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: So it's mostly that. And when Studio Good Work is quiet, I'm like, I don't have to worry about tax
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: and all of these financial things. I'm so scared
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: of numbers. that
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: it just yeah it really pannics me so when studio good I shouldn't be thankful and studio good work is quiet because it pays me but it's that griever then of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I so this has revealed that I need to get an accountant basically but
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: yeah I think it just comes down to not having that person in studio good work with me to
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: relieve me of any work that I'm struggling with. It's all on me and I've got to be the one to manage it and if I can't work it out then I've got to give myself an immense headache and still work it out.
Heather Ebanks: But also with running your own business, you have also got to have some time to yourself because you can probably run yourself into a, an early grave and it's just not good for you. So I think
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: it's finding that from the extreme to having a secure, studio, that doesn't happen because you made redundant to all it's all on me and the pressure of that. You've got to find the balance of taking some time out. And I think that probably might come over time. So definitely keep up with the good work, but at the same time, look after yourself.
Katie: yeah, I've got a nice week planned next week. So it's been planned for a year. So there are breaks plotted. They're just not as frequent as I'd probably like
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: them. But that time will come. I get to do this. So, but now I'm content.
Heather Ebanks: if someone's like listening, to this right now who are, relating to some of the things you've said, what advice would you give to someone to stop chasing a perfect career and start designing a life that actually works for them?
Katie: I think, well I know from experience, you can have a plan as much as you like. If
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that plan is not meant for you, you will always be thrown off course. And I've learned that in the last year. My plan was to move out with my partner. both had full time jobs.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: You know, we were gonna live in Cardiff and all of these things and the universe sort of went not with this job, so... You're not listening to the signs, I'm take the job and you can find your
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: own way. I'm a bit woo woo in the fact that I do think the universe speaks to me. um, yeah, just realising that your career, and a customer told me this when I was working in a coffee shop, your career is made up of stepping stones and you decide where you place that next stone. So it's not this map that everyone has and you're trying to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: work out where this secret map is stored. You are the only person who can build your career path so if something doesn't feel right it's down to you to work out what's next.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: That plan is a myth because I'm yet to find it.
Heather Ebanks: That's great advice from that person you spoke to in your coffee shop because
Katie: Hmm.
Heather Ebanks: I think that kind of triggered a lot of things for you in your career. I remember you were talking about it. Exit out.
Katie: yeah, there's like a big red button that was like, right, hit the button. Go for it. Yeah. Eject. yeah, good time.
Heather Ebanks: So this has been a great conversation and, you know, people wanted to speak to you and talk to you about your career and your life and even support you in your business, how would they reach out and talk to you and, you know, share your social handles?
Katie: So I've got two accounts on Instagram. One is the
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: behind the scenes of Studio Good Work and the more personal side. So that's Katie Does Good Work. That's all one word.
Heather Ebanks: Yep.
Katie: And then I've got studio.goodwork.
Heather Ebanks: I'll put all the information down in the show notes so you can reach out to Katie. Thank you very much. Now,
Katie: Thank you for having me.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: work out where this secret map is stored. You are the only person who can build your career path so if something doesn't feel right it's down to you to work out what's next. I'm Katie, run Studio Goodwick, it's a freelance social design independent studio. it's just about doing design for good. So always making sure that it's for people and it's doing things that matter. It changes behaviors and it makes people think. So it's a bit deeper than just your nice visuals, which as designers we all appreciate, but. It's the stories and the connections underneath that are like my main focus
Heather Ebanks: I'm joined by Katie Price, social designer, strategist, researcher, multi hyphenate creative, and a founder of Studio Good Work, a practice quietly reshaping what it means to build a career on your own terms. Katie works in social design, where the focus isn't just aesthetics or output, but people, systems, behavior, and the deeper why behind how things function in the real world. Her work sits between strategy and empathy, research and intuition. Structure and uncertainty. But this conversation really isn't about design. After being made redundant twice, she was forced to step outside of an industry she once aimed for. Instead of rushing back in, she began rebuilding differently through reflection, honesty, and refusal to shrink herself to fit something That no longer felt aligned. In this episode, we talk about social design as a tool for meaningful change, while the human why matters more than aesthetics, and how creative industries Can quietly reward competition over connection. We explore burnout, identity, and what it means to separate your worth from your job title. We also unpack the idea of the career path and why Katie sees it less as a straight line and more as a series of stepping stones you choose in real time.
Katie: understanding people's why is a big part of my work so it's that immediate like I've got this idea okay well why yeah part of my a lot of it does come back to my masters I learned to be quite annoying on my masters I suppose
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: I am always the person in the room to be asking why, not just once, but like five times, like a toddler, I will just ask until we get to the root. And I think that's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: the beauty of social design. Like I can help people uncover things that they didn't necessarily know themselves. Like it's just about having those conversations and helping
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Katie: people unpick their ideas first and then making
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: sure that everything is rooted in the research. Like we've got
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: contextual research. and we might speak to people but for me there's a level of theoretical research that needs to come with design especially working on design for good projects so a lot
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Katie: of it is behaviour change
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: or universal sign transition design like
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: there's theories that we need to be paying attention to especially when we're designing for intersections of society like we need to be mindful of a lot
Heather Ebanks: Mm hmm. Well, that
Katie: So.
Heather Ebanks: sounds really interesting, because I think, I think everyone with a working in whatever type of business needs what a social designer because it sounds like that's because some people are missing that kind of part of their process with regards to whether it's a project or because you know, the route, like you say, the why is important. And some unfortunately, some people kind of skip that part of the design process.
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: when you hear the words bold voices, messy journeys, zero apologies, which part of your journey does that resonate with the most?
Katie: I was made redundant and coming out of that and not worrying about the next step for me and how I went about working out what the next step was, felt when I was first made redundant I was like I can't say certain things.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: Just because I didn't want to upset companies that I'd worked for in the past. Ultimately, I lost my job and the bold voices and the messy journeys, like that last year, I need to be loud now and there's a way that I can do it that's not in everyone's faces but just honest, I suppose. I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Katie: being really clear about my experience of the industry.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: because it's not, you get out of uni, you land that first job and everything is plain and sane from there. In fact, that's quite like a unicorn experience, I would say. But especially in my books,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah,
Katie: like, to redundancies and the toxic workplace, I'm done appeasing people in the industry.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: It needs to change and unless we talk about it, it's not going to. So
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I'm putting my... put my foot down and I'm like, I'll be loud. Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Yes. Good for you, definitely. yeah, I definitely can relate it's a bit like everyone knows someone who's been redundant, it's a common thing, unfortunately. And yeah, it's also kind of pull it to like, was it five or six stages of grief or something. And I think go through the anger, know, your frustration and the grief and the depression and you don't realize that until, you zoom out and then you realize, oh, that that's what happened to me and it's takes a while to recover. So yeah,
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: we're all recovering from redundancy at some point in our lives.
Katie: Yeah, none of us come out unscathed.
Heather Ebanks: No, definitely. But you know, what hurts us makes us stronger, as they say.
Katie: Absolutely.
Heather Ebanks: And I looked at them, I think you had a substack This was quite interesting. I saw what a mindful minute and I'm going to read it out because I think this is very relevant. It says, don't ever attach yourself to a person, a place, a company, an organization, or a project. Attach yourself to a mission. calling a purpose only. That's how you keep your power and your peace. Yeah, that one really resonated with me. And at what point in your journey, do you realize that attaching your identity to a job or company could be risky?
Katie: I think it was again, unfortunately everything comes back to last year, which
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: now, blessing in disguise, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: to have what I thought was a permanent full-time well-paid job. And you know, I was financially sustainable. I had social plans like every week and I loved the job down to its bones.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: But when that went, everything went with it. And some of that is the relationships. Obviously, you may be close to someone out of convenience because you
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: work together in the same office and there's nothing wrong with that. And I would never hold anything against people for not staying in touch as much. But the reality is you're not as close anymore or
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: things like I was a mid-weight designer and I was constantly pushing to... bridge the gap between the
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: creative team and the engagement team. That's where my
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: social design knowledge sits. But
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Katie: when that goes, you're like, how do I navigate this now? That is how I was sort of defining my purpose as a social designer.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Katie: That's where I would sit. But when
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that goes, where do I go? Where do I belong now? And
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I think for me, it took... up until kindling last year so
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: for those who don't know kindling is the Christmas event that state and I hosted and we now host seasonal events because there's such a hoot
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: but it took up until that point for me to realize I wasn't meant to be doing that and I'm now
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: following my purpose so when I think it was like September last year me
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: and Stacey again, we're like freelance, work our lives out kind of accountability pals.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: We sat and like we've got to do something, we can't just sit around and like mull over what the next thing is going to be. So
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: I was like right well I'll give freelancing a go, I did it before but I did it straight out of uni, I didn't understand everything that was going to come with it.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: So I said, well, now is my chance to do good work and push the social design aspect of my job. I still
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: use graphic design, but I use it to navigate the world of social design. It's more of a tool than I am a graphic designer. And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: that's sort of how it started to come about. was a downward
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: spiral and then working out how to come out of it. But letting go of that
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: everything and that relationship to that business
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: was the only way that I could move forward and focus on
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: my mission and what I wanted to do, which is good work for good people.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, I think that's a good tip for people who are think that there's no way out of a redundancy. And it's kind of almost like a blessing in disguise where, yeah, this is a horrible situation, but you need to focus on other aspects of your life you got multi talented people out there who got so many different skills, and you've tapped into your your transferable skills that you could use that, for good as well. And you've doing other projects and think, I know it's hard because most people are in their nine to five and they're there for a big part of their lives, but always have something going on that you're passionate about because no job is secure anymore, that's just unfortunate. That's just the way it is. And, but yeah, if you put all your eggs in one basket, unfortunately, that identity of yours. might get swallowed in your nine to five, unfortunately. but yeah, that sounds good that what the direction that you're going in as well. So I just want to talk more about your career and, and I think you brought this up and we went recently to an event that I attended with you. It was a design Swansea and you did a presentation there. And I know we talked about with redundancy the past and the present and what you do in the future. But I like the way that you reshaped it and I'm going to use your words. It's like you talked about reflection, refocus and reshaping. So I've got a few questions about those topics. So regards to reflection, what did that reflection reveal about how much you, your identity was tied into your job? Is there anything that you realized? from the past that you can put into your present today, do you think?
Katie: Yeah, for me, because where I used to work was a dream agency that I wanted
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: to work at. It was always like, well, I work there and that's the best thing. And obviously when that was gone, it was like, well, where do I work now?
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: Yeah, it's... It's looking back and realising that I wasn't focusing on what I was doing as much. I was proud to say I worked for a certain company. But when
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: that goes, everything goes with it.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: yeah, to look back and realise what were the things I was proud of that I achieved in that job. And then taking those things into my sort of refocus stage.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: That was really helpful because I was proud of the work I was doing and the connections
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I was building and whether I'm with that company or not I still did the work and I still have those connections.
Heather Ebanks: definitely. And for someone who's like avoids reflection, because sometimes it's painful to go back and think about those times that, they felt really low. It can feel overwhelming. how would someone start to get out of that situation of feeling, you know, lost or overwhelmed? How how they begin? Do you think?
Katie: I think, and it does sound very cheesy, but the whole idea of having to go through it, to grow through it. Had I not
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, definitely.
Katie: sat in the pits for months, and I mean, it was hard. I did struggle
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: to get out of bed and I didn't speak to many friends and I lost a lot of my confidence. But
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: had I not gone through it and reached a point where I was like, I can't keep doing this. because nothing good is going to come from it, where can I, like what can I look back on and where can I pinpoint patterns then? Because this wasn't the first redundancy either, so
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: like where can I pinpoint things and realise what's going wrong and where and how can I reshape my practice to make sure that doesn't happen again? And at the moment,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah.
Katie: that was coming to the realisation that Okay, I've been made redundant twice. It's been down to budgets or funding or
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: financial stability. how
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: moving forward can I make sure that doesn't happen again? And at the minute that looks like working for myself and controlling my own
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: income. yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, and even if people who listening might not want to start their own, you know, practice or business after being made redundant. I think I watched a few videos and there's one designer from America made this point about making sure that you're kind of prepared for the inevitable, for example, make sure that your resume or your CV is up to date. Have a kind of a kind of a conference or a chat with yourself and say, what have I achieved within two, three months? keep, your hand into other projects, as we said before. so when you, and also that network as well as important and community. So make sure that you're not just relying on that, that company in that business. you've got that network to fall back on and that, you know, again, going back to the. eggs in the basket situation. but yeah, and from reflection, you mentioned it and you touched on it, refocusing. So how do you shift from being attached to a role to being anchored in purpose? Do you think?
Katie: I think from being attached to an employed role, it's going through that grief stage of it not existing anymore. And that
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: can't just be the end.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: I come from South Wales Valley, so I live in Merthyr. And in school we were told that we would never go on to do creative careers because we're from the valleys. And
Heather Ebanks: What?
Katie: we're not... you know, meant for those things. We're meant to do the
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: retail jobs, the coffee shop jobs, the blue collar, white collar jobs. And for me, was like, I've worked so hard to get to this point. I didn't go out very much in uni. I was in uni at half past eight in the morning. No one else was, but I was there. And I would work on the weekends and I was doing everything I could to train to be this great designer.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: There are people much better than me, but constantly working on my ethos and I was working so hard. I was like, I've not come this far to lose all of that. Still be
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: paying the uni debt for a start
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: and have no plan of what comes next. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Katie: for me it was like, well, I've learned a lot and I've built a lot of skills and I've really nurtured. relationships whether that's in my industry or with clients that is a lot of work to just let go and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I think stopping and reshaping and refocusing to realise well not everything is lost I have
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: a lot that I can still focus on it's just not with the same it's not sitting in the same context anymore. And in order
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: to grow, things need to change. So how do I make it change? And that's sort
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: of the way I was taking that next part of my talk then, is talking about change
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: and realizing change will have to happen. Because if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. And also now the reshaping part of this is, how, what parts of yourself did you discover when you were, when you started to reshape your, your direction, your path in your career? Was there anything that you realized about yourself compared to what you went through?
Katie: Yeah, I think this time last year I would have been so quick to be like, I am so sorry, bad is on me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: Like I was so quick to appease. Like I wouldn't be in the wrong, but I would put
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: myself in the wrong to make other people feel comfortable. And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: in the last year, obviously starting Studio Good Work and doing things for myself, it's like, well, if I don't do it, no one's going to do it. I'm really going
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: to have to, you know. dig deep and find that confidence because I've
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: never been a confident person ever like going back to school I was very quiet and I was one of those kids that so long as teachers said I was doing well then great I was doing well I am now my own boss and now I've got to tell myself I'm doing well because if you don't back yourself
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: no one else is going to back you in this game so Yeah, realising that I just had to really value myself and I suppose
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: sweetly in Kindle last week my partner got up and spoke, because I had put him on the spot
Heather Ebanks: you
Katie: and he said, she doesn't, even now I still don't give myself enough credit, I'm doing it more
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: but still not as much as I probably should be doing and it's constantly reshaping myself to be more confident, put myself out there.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: I was always afraid of getting a no. Well if I get
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: a no, I've not lost anything because I didn't have it in the
Heather Ebanks: No.
Katie: first place. there's everything to gain and nothing to lose. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: I think I've just reached a point where I'm like, 27. Your 20s are an opportunity to explore things. I'm very
Heather Ebanks: Yes, definitely.
Katie: fortunate to live at home. If I don't give things a go now, I may never have this opportunity again.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: So it's my market research era, shall we say. Yeah, just working things out and also not being too perfect about it. Like building it, letting it exist and developing on it the next time.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: Because I'm such a perfectionist to just not post. My socials are dead,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Katie: as you may have seen. So just letting things exist and then developing them in front of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: people and welcoming people into that process. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: it's a lot about in some terms putting myself on blast and just opening myself up to critiques
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: and welcoming that feedback.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: Yeah, so a learning curve.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah, definitely. think I can relate to the, trying to get it right, get it perfect. And definitely in the past few several years, I've definitely wanted to experiment and, see what happens. and I've taken a lot of people might call it risks or being brave, but I just think, just get on with it, And like you say, no is not necessarily no, might be a no for now. other doors will open and you'll probably take you in another direction. But then again, that direction might be interesting and might be a different way for so experimenting, trying things because, as we said, the redundancy was something that kind of knocked people into reality that you need to not rely on just one. source of income. Now, I think you mentioned about a portfolio career was one of the things that you came up so what is your portfolio career?
Katie: So alongside Studio Good Work, I am an Associate Lecturer in Cardiff Metropolitan University on the Graphic Design
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: course. So I'm currently helping students with their Dysprep for next year, which
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Katie: is very strange because six years ago, seven years ago, a few years ago, I was back in that position. And
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: then obviously I've got Kimlin, so I've got the event space that I co-host with Stacey. Now, Kindle isn't necessarily making any money. It's purely because we want to build that connection. We want to build those events to bring people together. But it takes
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: up such a big part of my workload that it feels only right that if I'm not getting paid for it, I at least take the credit where it's due. It's more of a volunteering space at the minute.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: then yeah, the lecturing and studio good work doesn't just offer design. So I'm a social designer. So research is a big part of what I do, whether that's desk research or understanding and consolidating insights and helping. creative teams understand those in a tangible way and also designing the workshops that we do to make sure they feel... what's the word? authentic
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: to the audiences that we're working with.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: So I do a lot of things. Studio Good Work houses a lot of it, just
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: because it's easier to say that. But I'm also enjoying speaking more, which is a very scary thing for me. This time last year I would never have done this, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: yeah. pushing myself out of my comfort zone. I want
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that opportunity to grow. I keep adding
Heather Ebanks: you
Katie: titles to the end of the list. But yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, I feel that's the norm now. Everyone's got more than one title to their to their CV. with all this going on, How do you decide what deserves your attention when everything feels all important at the same time?
Katie: I think, especially in the last couple of weeks, because I've had speaking, I've had client work, I've had lecturing, I've had it all in the last couple of weeks. Ultimately,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: the paid work has to be prioritised because I can't keep doing everything else if I'm not doing paid work. So
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I'm fortunate that my lecturing days are a set day.
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Katie: the rest of the week that I can break things up. So Kindling has come to an end for this season so that's no longer on my list.
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Katie: So right now is Studio Goodwick
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: and The Lecturyn but I've got those threads that I can pull as and when, if that makes sense, so it's not everything
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. It does, yeah.
Katie: is always all go at once.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: So when the lecturing stops, I'll put more energy into studio good work because the students are off for three months. I need to fill that time. But
Heather Ebanks: Right, I see. Yeah, yeah.
Katie: then when the lecturing picks up, if studio good work is quiet, it doesn't really matter because the lecturing
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: is there. So there's always at least two strands on the go. So it's
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: either putting money in the bank or it's filling my cup up and building connections so
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that I can. bring more money in studio good work and then go off and do the projects that are creatively fulfilling, they're for good. So it just feels like I'm constantly pulling on these like strings. It's a bit of a fine art,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Katie: I've not quite mailed yet, but yeah, it's fun.
Heather Ebanks: But what's the hardest part of like juggling and managing all these multiple streams? The work that people don't normally talk about, what's behind all of that that's difficult?
Katie: I think for me it's the running of Studio Good Work, so working on the business, not in the business, or on the service, not in the service, because I'm not mathematically gifted by any stretch of the imagination. So the minute finances and all the legal things come into play, I really struggle and I get myself into quite a knot because... I want to do everything right.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I'm a freelancer, so I've got fears that I can mean on, but there's no one else in Studio Good Work to go, let me take that off you so you can focus on everything else.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: So it's mostly that. And when Studio Good Work is quiet, I'm like, I don't have to worry about tax
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: and all of these financial things. I'm so scared
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: of numbers. that
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: it just yeah it really pannics me so when studio good I shouldn't be thankful and studio good work is quiet because it pays me but it's that griever then of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I so this has revealed that I need to get an accountant basically but
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: yeah I think it just comes down to not having that person in studio good work with me to
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: relieve me of any work that I'm struggling with. It's all on me and I've got to be the one to manage it and if I can't work it out then I've got to give myself an immense headache and still work it out.
Heather Ebanks: But also with running your own business, you have also got to have some time to yourself because you can probably run yourself into a, an early grave and it's just not good for you. So I think
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: it's finding that from the extreme to having a secure, studio, that doesn't happen because you made redundant to all it's all on me and the pressure of that. You've got to find the balance of taking some time out. And I think that probably might come over time. So definitely keep up with the good work, but at the same time, look after yourself.
Katie: yeah, I've got a nice week planned next week. So it's been planned for a year. So there are breaks plotted. They're just not as frequent as I'd probably like
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: them. But that time will come. I get to do this. So, but now I'm content.
Heather Ebanks: if someone's like listening, to this right now who are, relating to some of the things you've said, what advice would you give to someone to stop chasing a perfect career and start designing a life that actually works for them?
Katie: I think, well I know from experience, you can have a plan as much as you like. If
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that plan is not meant for you, you will always be thrown off course. And I've learned that in the last year. My plan was to move out with my partner. both had full time jobs.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: You know, we were gonna live in Cardiff and all of these things and the universe sort of went not with this job, so... You're not listening to the signs, I'm take the job and you can find your
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: own way. I'm a bit woo woo in the fact that I do think the universe speaks to me. um, yeah, just realising that your career, and a customer told me this when I was working in a coffee shop, your career is made up of stepping stones and you decide where you place that next stone. So it's not this map that everyone has and you're trying to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: work out where this secret map is stored. You are the only person who can build your career path so if something doesn't feel right it's down to you to work out what's next.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: That plan is a myth because I'm yet to find it.
Heather Ebanks: That's great advice from that person you spoke to in your coffee shop because
Katie: Hmm.
Heather Ebanks: I think that kind of triggered a lot of things for you in your career. I remember you were talking about it. Exit out.
Katie: yeah, there's like a big red button that was like, right, hit the button. Go for it. Yeah. Eject. yeah, good time.
Heather Ebanks: So this has been a great conversation and, you know, people wanted to speak to you and talk to you about your career and your life and even support you in your business, how would they reach out and talk to you and, you know, share your social handles?
Katie: So I've got two accounts on Instagram. One is the
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: behind the scenes of Studio Good Work and the more personal side. So that's Katie Does Good Work. That's all one word.
Heather Ebanks: Yep.
Katie: And then I've got studio.goodwork.
Heather Ebanks: I'll put all the information down in the show notes so you can reach out to Katie. Thank you very much. Now,
Katie: Thank you for having me.
