WEBVTT
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Everybody. Johnny here. Before we
dive into this podcast, I just wanted
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to let you know that it's being
developed as a side project for my main
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work, which is now heading up
content and strategy for an early stage media
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startup called better, spelled, betr. We're a digital media company that creates
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and curates uplifting stories to help people
move forward in life with hope, confidence
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and acceptance. We offer written,
video and audio content spending categories such as
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wellness, mental health, humanity and
more. Is really something for everyone at
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better, whether you need to pick
me up content, personal stories about overcoming
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life and mental health challenges, story
that gives you the push to start that
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business you've always dreamed of, or
just inspiration on bettering yourself as a human.
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To simplify its content that makes you
feel better and dream of a more
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positive world around you. So check
out better and find your new favorite video
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series, podcast or written column.
Just go to live bettercom l I ve
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betrcom or, if you like watching
videos on Youtube, subscribe to better on
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youtubecom slash betr media and, lastly, make sure you follow us on instagram
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and twitter at Betr for some daily
inspiration. Nats and feel good content to
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your social media feeds, because who
doesn't need that right now? And as
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my world starts crashing down on me. You know, it's scene in jaws
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where they do the camera trick where, like they zoom out but it stays
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on the guy's face, like I
felt like that was happening, like my
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everything went numb and silent and about
ten seconds later I wake up on my
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console in a complete cold sweat.
I had passed out. That moment was
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where I realized I've pushed myself way
too far and I'm not well. Hey
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Everyone, I'm John William. This
is creative AF podcast that dives smack DAB
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into the messy intersection of creativity and
mental health, sharing your stories of the
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highest highs and the lowest lows and
on the show today. When will postumus
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was deep into his eleven year tender
as one of the leading live event and
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video producers in the country in professional
and collegiate sports, he never thought one
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some timing miss step in a commercial
break of an NFL game would lead him
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to reevaluate the entire amazing career he
had built up to that point. Now,
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before we get to the show,
I have to clarify again, this
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podcast is not meant to bash or
be a little anyone or any organization that
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myself or any of the guests on
the show may have worked with or at
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before. It's meant to be an
open, real and raw dialog about the
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ups and the downs of being a
creative in today's world and how, by
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taking these things out in the open, we can really begin to push the
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change in the hustle and grind culture
that is so desperately needed to really keep
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us sane and balanced. The sports
industry is one of the most exciting and
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fulfilling careers that anyone could have,
but this business is so much more than
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the eighteen NFL Games put on by
a team during the year or the one
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hundred and eighty two mld games in
a season. In order to fill these
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stadiums with people, make them look
beautiful for an entire season, day in
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and day out, entertains seventyzero people
for every second of play is an occurring
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and push the twenty four seven social
media content machine to really be the best
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in all of sports. It takes
a team of people working, sometimes nonstop,
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to make this happen. Behind the
scenes of what most people don't see
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are usually small teams of young,
creative spending hours and hours on end in
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their offices, either at the stadium
or to practice facility, prepping for months
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and sometimes years for singular events that
can be over in four hours but that
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can leave legacies and memories for families
that can really last a lifetime. Well
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Post you, Mrs No stranger to
this life from a young age. He
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grew up in a family that was
very deep into the sports world themselves and,
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as fate would have it, will
would eventually find himself in a dream
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job that he never really knew existed. Man, this is this goes all
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the way back to like freshman year
of high school. I can even before
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that was let's take us that back. So my brother is eleven years older
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than me. So when he was
in high school, you know, I
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was five six years old and kind
of going to watch him play his high
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school sports. He was a multi
sport athlete and he played a professional baseball
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but when he was in high school
that the things that attracted me to sports
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was going to watch him played basketball
and at the high school that he went
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to and I eventually went to,
there was a guy named Tom Murray who
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was a bit of a showman and
he kind of brought entertainment to high school
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basketball and Portage Michigan, where I
grew up, and he would, you
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know, he would be the DJ, he would be the PA announcer,
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he would wear a Tuxedo and introduce
the teams, he would hire other students
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to use spotlights and, you know, he made a spectacle out of these
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kind of Smalltown High School Basketball Games
and I remember being a little kid going
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to watch those games and like that, that Intros, the player Intros,
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was the coolest part and I was
just so enamored with what he was able
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to bring to a high school basketball
experience a little kids. So he ended
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up going to Arizona State University for
broadcasting and through, you know, family
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friends and knowing his story, I
kind of aspired to me and I'd really
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like to do something similar someday.
So when I got to high school that
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had all gone away. Nobody carried
the torch. So from you know,
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when I was eleven years younger than
my brother up until when I got there,
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that had all stopped. And so
I remember meeting with the Athletic Director
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and saying you know, this all
used to happen when my brother played.
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There any reason why we can't do
that now? So the athletic director actually
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hired me as a freshman to bring
that back and I was the pay announcer,
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I was the DJ. I had
another friend of mine that was a
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student that I had to eventually teach
him how to do things so I could
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do more. I invested in the
right equipment so we had the right sound
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system and basically we brought that level
of entertainment back to my high school.
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So, you know, it was
all the way to the point where,
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like, I'd roam with the team
and we not only did men's basketball,
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we do women's basketball. We did
gymnastics, we did cheer, all of
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the the indoor sports that we could
do a show for we ended up putting
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on a show. So I was
kind of doing game entertainment before I even
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knew it was a thing you could
do professionally. ENDED UP COMING OUT TO
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ASU and after my first semester and
at the chronkite school, I got involved
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with the student radio station. Ended
up having my own Asu baseball radio show.
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I was in line to be the
new sports director at the student radio
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station and I was sent an e
mail about an internship opportunity with the diamondbacks.
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There was there was two positions that
they were kind of recruiting asu students
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for. One was game operations,
which I didn't even know what that meant,
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and then dbtv, which was something
that was brand new at the diamondbacks.
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They just put in a brand new
video board. They had just invested
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in this multimillion dollar, you know, camera equipment and control room and they
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basically had this amazing hd you can
hear my son crying in the background.
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I have a eleven day old son
who's practicing as national singing right now.
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anyways, going back to the internship
opportunity, so, you know, brand
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new video board, brand new control
room, all hd cameras, everything that
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you'd want to play with if you
were interested in sports broadcasting. And ended
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up getting the internship, and it
was funny enough. I they hired me
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as a game ops intern because I
had good personality, they've told me,
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and I was easy to speak with
and I was easy to communicate with and
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I kind of had an extroverted personality
that they thought would translate well to game
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operation. So I ended up being
you know, I spent the that summer
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of two thousand and eight as an
intern with in game operations. It essentially
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was doing kind of what I was
doing back in high school. You know,
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I was helping with national anthem singers, I was helping with the in
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game promotions, I was helping with, you know, all of the things
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that happened in and around the game, except for the game itself, and
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it just felt like I had arrived. You know, this is what I've
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been aspiring to do and I kind
of fell into it through, you know,
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different opportunities and channels and it you
know, I played college baseball,
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I guess I should imagine that too, for for two years at Western Michian
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University before I ended up transferring and
going to Asu. And my brother,
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like I said, he was a
Semipro ball player. So baseball was always
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in my blood and something that was
really important to my family and I always
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joking my brother. He played up
to AAA. He had six or seven
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seasons in the my leagues and the
Seattle Mariners Organization got up to AAA play
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one exhibition game with the teams.
It didn't really count, and I remember
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my first opening day with the diamondbacks. I called him. I was like
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man, I made it to the
big leagues a lot faster than you did.
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Took so yeah, that was that's
the Genesis of sports. It was
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way, way, way earlier and
you know, looking back on it now,
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it's like, man, I really
wanted to do this since I was
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like five or six years old.
Your family has a love of sports.
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What did they what do they think
when you got the job with the diamondbacks?
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I mean, my dad has never
liked outwardly set it, but I
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know how absolutely proud he was of
the fact that I was able to to
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you know, they sent me away
to school and there's kind of the fear
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of the unknown there and within one
semester I had gotten an internship with the
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professional sports team and Major League Baseball
team, and he was so proud of
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that. You know, again,
he never directly said it, but in
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you know, through back channels and
text messaging and things he said other people,
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I know that he was super,
super proud that I was able to
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kind of get there. And then
I remember they came down to visit sometime
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early in the spring and there was
a postgame concert actually that we were playing
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against the Tigers. So growing up
in Michigan, you know we're always tigers
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fans. We had interleague series against
the Tigers and there was a postgame concert.
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I want to say it was like
trace Adkins, maybe. Yeah.
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So my parents were in town for
that series and and you know, I'm
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an intern, but I still was
able to grab them from their seats escort
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them down to the field. Were
watching treys Adkins perform on the field from
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the visitors dug out where the Tigers
were actually brandon inge, who's the Tigers
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player, and a couple of the
other two tigers were in the dugout with
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us and in I could just you
could see on his face that he was
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so damn proud that his, you
know, twenty year old kid was was
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a part of this, a part
of, you know, something that he
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was a fan of his whole life
and obviously we spent a lot of time
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around so it that was certainly cool
to to just make them proud and see
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that in his eyes is very cool. I remember, for a little context
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for everybody, I was working there
at the same time when you were there.
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I didn't really know you well when
you were an intern, but that
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would change quickly. I remember my
first feeling walking into the stadium for my
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first game and saying holy cow.
You know, tell me about what went
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through your head. What was the
conversation you played amongst yourself the first time
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you walked in and said this is
happening? I remember that first game.
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One of my duties as an intern
was to go into the clubhouse predame and
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ask a not high profile player if
they would catch the ceremonial first pitch.
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And opening day that was easier because
usually was a celebrity that threw out the
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first pitch. But no any normal
you know, midweek, Wednesday, getaway
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day or something. You've got,
you know, smoto from the sponsorship that
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had the opportunity to throw out the
first pitch. NOPE, no player wants
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to go do that. You know, it's nice as they are like they
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have a job to do and I
don't want to be asked to go beat
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the guy that catches the first pitch, but I was asked to ask somebody
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to catch the first pitch, so
I'm kind of I was. I don't
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even go into the clubhouse before and
I wandered into the DBACKS clubhouse and I'm
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supposed to ask, you know,
some half dressed major league baseball player,
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without even meeting him before, if
you would do this thing. And I
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remember I walked up the clubhouse steps
and I turned the corner and I physically
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and literally ran into Randy Johnson,
who if for me as a kid who
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grew up watching my brother in the
Mariners Organization, like, Oh my God,
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it's the big unit, what holy
and he's so intimidating, he's huge
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and he's mean looking and I,
sorry, sorry, Mr Johnson, kept
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walking. I end up getting the
Ceremonial First Pitch Catcher, but it was
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like the nerves and the like,
I'm not supposed to be here type feeling
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never really settled until maybe like the
second or third aning of the game.
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We kind of things got going,
but that that whole first season and just
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the excitement of being around professional sports
and something that seems so unattainable, that
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didn't go away and honestly it didn't
really go away. Ever, it's always
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still kind of there. You get
these butterflies and you get the emotions that
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you tie into the performance in the
field and everything like that doesn't go away.
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The drinaline still there. I you
know, we have been out of
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this now for two years, almost
two years now, and I've been doing
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some freelancing for the Arizona coyotes out
here and I've been directing shows for them,
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and I remember texting my wife after
your pregame had finished. I'm like,
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man, I still get that like
holy Shit feeling during pregame where you're
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doing the show and you got to
hit the button to make sure that the
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open video runs the right time and
it's like that adrenaline of you could screw
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this up and the high of kind
of doing it live, it never ever
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goes away. Did you ever screw
it up? Oh yeah, absolutely.
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I mean it's especially in baseball like
we did. I had five seasons of
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Major League Baseball and you know,
do some quick math on that. That's
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there's a whole lot of opportunities to
screw something up. Was this your dream
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job? So I thought that I
wanted to be a radio play byplay broadcaster
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like that's that's why I thought my
dream job was going to be. And
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then when I got to I started
with the internship with the diamondbacks and start
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to realize that every single team has
their own broadcast. You Know Company,
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essentially their own own production company in
House to put on their shows. It's
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that's started to become my dream job, just being involved in the organization,
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being a part of a group of
people. Like if I was just calling
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baseball games for ESPN, you know, you suddenly baseball money, baseball.
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Obviously they would be an amazing opportunity
and an amazing career, but I wouldn't
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be able to really tie my affinity
in my love for one organization. You
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know, I would be working for
ESPN and calling games for everybody. So
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really you love the game and that's
why you do it. But I didn't
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realize how much the organization became my
family, especially moving away from Michigan and
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moving arizone on you know, I
knew a couple of kids I went to
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high school with that we're also sun
devils, but I mean I became a
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man, I kind of grew into
an adult with all of these other young
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professionals that we spent hours and hours
and hours with. So I think that
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all of the friendships, and I'm
obviously you know you and I and everything
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that we've become, that came from
my dream job, right like it,
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that that developed into something much more
than just a job. Yeah, but
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in this is the real important part, is we as we got into two
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thousand and eleven, this was quite
a year for us. We were hosting
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an Allstar game. We made it
pretty deep into the playoffs. You had
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a really critical role in its success
for a multitude of reasons which we don't
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need to get into necessarily. Here
you were. You were on top of
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the world at that point. Tell
me, you know, tell me what
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happened next. You know, things
change and in roles change. In you
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made a decision to move on.
Give us a little insight into that.
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Yeah, that was my fourth year
with the team. First Year I was
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an intern. Second year I was
hired as a supervisor of game operations and
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and content, or something something like
that. And I guess the preface this.
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You know, in two thousand and
eight we weren't making digital content.
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We were making marketing materials. We
were doing commercials, radio spots, TV
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spots and in game content and that
was it. We and part of that
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was because Major League baseball advanced media
own the rights to all of the team's
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digital assets. So if we wanted
to produce a piece of content to go
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on our facebook page or our twitter
account or the website. We had to
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jump through a multitude of hoops to
get that stuff published. So there really
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wasn't a much motivation for us to
make stuff for for digital consumption because the
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hoops to jump through were so difficult. It would be like a week to
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ten days before we could get something
posted. So again, the emphasis was
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really only on on in game production
and you know the couple of commercials that
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we would create throughout the season.
But in two thousand and eleven things changed
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because not only were doing game production
but you know, the the dbacks move
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their spring training operations to Scottsdale.
So you know, not only were we
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were responsible for the launch of a
brand new spring facility and the all of
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the Spring Training Games that were played
there. About that backs that that was
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our preseason. So where we spend
that time preparing for the regular season?
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That was gone because we spent it
all helping launch this brand new, amazing
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Spring Training Facility, which I don't
want to, you know, Pooh Pooh
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that because it was an amazing experience. It was incredible to be able to
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be a part of that state of
the art. It's still probably the best
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spring training facility in Major League Baseball, but it was a shitload of work
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and it was it was time,
crucial time, that we needed to mentally
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prepare for the year that we were
about to have. So, you know,
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we kind of started drained. We
had already burnt out twenty percent of
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our our energy saves on that Spring
Training Endeavor. Season Starts, team starts
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playing really well, and also we're
hosting the Allstar game that year, so
258
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not only is there additional responsibilities for, you know, the actual weekend of
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the game itself, but the promotion
for it and all the other things I
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go involved in it. So we
had this other thing that probably took another
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twenty percent of our energy stores.
And then the team made the playoffs that
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year. So, you know,
all the things that you're working for throughout
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the year you are excited for,
and that's why we do what we do
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in sports, so we can,
you know, help the team get to
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the ultimate prize, and that's a
championship. But by the time we got
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to the playoffs, I was so
mentally and emotionally and physically drained from that
267
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year that I just needed a break. I needed something different and the I
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I guess I didn't even really know
her, but through the industry, through
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being involved in, you know,
game entertainment for four years, a woman
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named Aaron Sequira, who was the
director of game entertainment for the Detroit Red
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Wings, reached out to me about
a job opportunity. She knew I was
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from Michigan, she knew that I
was a, you know, a young
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creative that was doing some good things
within the industry, and she offered me
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an opportunity to come home. And
you know, that kind of lined up
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with my feelings of needing something different, needing a break, and I love,
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man, I love my four years
the diamondbacks and I've to will talk
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more about this as we go but
I've been chasing the feeling of family that
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we had there ever since I left, and that's part of the reason why
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I've been a bit of a rolling
stone throughout this industry, because I've been
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dying to get that feeling of a
family and community and empathy and caring for
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one another, things that I've not
experienced other organizations since then. But regardless,
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you know, I was four years
into into my career and I was
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making very little money, spending hours
and hours and hours every single summer at
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the ballpark and I needed something different, even if it was a little bit
285
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of a pay bump and a change
of pay. So I went right from
286
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that crazy year. I mean we've
finished. We so we lose in the
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wild card, the fifth game of
the wild card to the Milwaukee brewers that
288
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year, and I'm literally packing up
my my truck, getting ready to move
289
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back to Michigan and going right into
another season. So I'm I'm already at
290
00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:25.059
you know, negative energy stores,
going right into a new season, new
291
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city, new team, new environment, and that kind of was the I
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now, thinking about it and talking
through it, I can kind of say
293
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that was the beginning of my mental
than physical decline throughout sports, because I
294
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just I never got that break.
So you were held at that point.
295
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Oh Man, let's do the math
on that. I guess I would have
296
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been twenty two. You're twenty two
years old. You've been in sports for
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nearly five years and your burnout and
you're heading to the pinnacle for you right
298
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this is hockey, this is the
red wings, this is your hometown team.
299
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Tell me about was there a different
energy when you went in there?
300
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I got there and I went from
this full HD control room, amazing,
301
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you know chase field environment, to
the switcher in the control room that was
302
00:23:36.049 --> 00:23:40.329
hanging above on the fifth floor at
Joe Louis Arena really looked like there should
303
00:23:40.329 --> 00:23:44.960
be, you know, a guy
smoking a cigarette leading over it, orange
304
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and yellow and red buttons, all
analog, you know, the little CCTV
305
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.200
monitors that will six inch monitors.
Was all the monitors they had. There
306
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.869
were there was no hd, there
was no screens, and then the the
307
00:23:56.910 --> 00:24:00.029
organization didn't even own any of the
equipment. They've been renting it from a
308
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local company for years and years and
years. So it was very different.
309
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I kind of although I was I
was working for a team that had a
310
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winning tradition history. I took like
fifteen years steps back in the digital content
311
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creation realm. But silver lining at
that is I got to pay the way
312
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and it was myself and one other
social media the social media manager at that
313
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time, who was also kind of
forward thinking. We pushed for something new
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and that was episodic content that people
could rely on and know that was going
315
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to be there, and we basically
made digital content programming before. It was
316
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a thing for sports teams and it
worked it. We drove like a million
317
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.230
and a half dollars in sponsorship avenue
within that first year that I was there.
318
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That wasn't there before. It's on
our viewership and it was a grind
319
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and it sucked. And I you
know the Joe for anybody who's been to
320
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Joe Louis Arena knows how amazing it
is on Game Day, but a place
321
00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:07.299
to go every single day at work, it was awful. There's there's two
322
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window those that are about the size
of a for inge by fourign square on
323
00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:18.420
two doors in that building and that's
it was like a concrete prison. What
324
00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:22.049
was your office like there? Yeah, so me and Aaron shared we had
325
00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:27.089
two smaller auxiliary offices on the fifth
floor, which was suspended above the ice
326
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and there was the control room.
was there, but it was we were
327
00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:33.289
isolated. It was she was on
one side of the room, I was
328
00:25:33.369 --> 00:25:37.559
on the other side of the room. We had very little interaction with anybody
329
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:40.920
else within the organization unless we had
meetings, but to do that we would
330
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:45.680
have to go either to another building
or down to the ground floor. It
331
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.640
was it was gross, it was
bad. We basically walked through the dark
332
00:25:49.789 --> 00:25:53.670
to get to that center area hanging
above the ice, and I can tell
333
00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:56.829
you the times that I saw river
rats running around up there, where are
334
00:25:56.910 --> 00:26:11.019
more than the fingers I have on
my hands, that's for sure. So
335
00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:18.339
you're coming from this amazing experience when
you left, maybe exhausted, but on
336
00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:22.849
a pretty high note, after getting
an Allstar Ring at the age of twenty
337
00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:29.490
two and and going deep into the
playoffs at that point, working at with
338
00:26:29.569 --> 00:26:34.039
some of the best facilities that were
in baseball really at that point. And
339
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:41.160
then you stayed at the red wings. For for how long? So at
340
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:47.349
the wings for less than a year
and it was I will say that I
341
00:26:47.549 --> 00:26:52.549
was open to other opportunities. I
you know I was. I was ready
342
00:26:52.589 --> 00:26:56.950
to try something different because this wasn't
what I was expecting. You know,
343
00:26:57.029 --> 00:27:00.390
I had reached back out to friends
at the D backs, I reach back
344
00:27:00.430 --> 00:27:03.940
out to my leadership there to see, if you know, if it made
345
00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:07.140
sense for me to potentially come back
there. I had opportunities at University of
346
00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:11.180
Michigan, who, you know,
have great athletics facilities and things like that.
347
00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:15.970
But really what kick started my move
away from the Red Wings was the
348
00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:22.289
two thousand and twelve NHL lockout we
the lockout happened and we weren't allowed to
349
00:27:22.329 --> 00:27:26.210
do anything with the pro players.
We could work with anybody that had a
350
00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:30.480
two way contract or a semipro contract, but the pro players were off limits
351
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.960
because the lockout. So myself and
I ended up hiring another guy who still
352
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.720
there doing great things with the red
wings with video production. But he and
353
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.839
I went to grand rapids, which
was the my league affiliate for the Red
354
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.109
Wings, and we did some stuff
with them. But I was like,
355
00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:47.549
man, I don't know how long
it's going to last. I'm kind of
356
00:27:47.589 --> 00:27:51.069
at a nice hot young part in
my career where I want to keep doing
357
00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:56.150
things. So I actually got hit
up by a consultants, a woman who
358
00:27:56.230 --> 00:28:00.339
was consulting for the Detroit Pistons.
She had actually worked for the LA dodgers
359
00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:03.700
and we had cross paths during my
time as a diamond back and she recommended
360
00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.660
that I in review for the Pistons. They needed a videoboard director. I
361
00:28:08.059 --> 00:28:11.779
forget what happened to their current person, but they their season just started and
362
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:18.130
they were without somebody you have fully
run their in arener show. So I
363
00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:19.289
said sure, I'm going to lock
out right now. I'm not a huge
364
00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:22.890
basketball fan, but you know,
it could be fun. You know,
365
00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:26.049
get me back in the director's chairs. Let's give it a shot. Ended
366
00:28:26.089 --> 00:28:30.599
up getting that job and as much
as I don't love basketball, I absolutely
367
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.359
loved being a part of in arena
production for basketball. The NBA is all
368
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:40.480
about entertainment, value and fun and
and and, you know, creative and
369
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:44.150
we had a hundred one performers,
counting the mascot. So you have four
370
00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:48.109
different dance teams, are drumline.
It was just crazy. We had halftime
371
00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:52.950
performers all the time. And when
I work for the Pistons, it wasn't
372
00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:57.259
just the Pistons, it was palace
sports and entertainment and they they were called
373
00:28:57.339 --> 00:29:03.059
that because it was so much more
than just basketball. They owned two different
374
00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:07.740
concert venues up in the suburb suburb
areas of Detroit. One various. If
375
00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:12.569
you have an outdoor concert venue,
you know that attracts five to tenzero people
376
00:29:12.769 --> 00:29:15.930
for concerts. We had one of
those and it was part of my responsibility
377
00:29:15.930 --> 00:29:18.569
to put on the video board shows
for those concerts in the summer too.
378
00:29:18.650 --> 00:29:25.359
So I really, really enjoyed my
time with that organization and it was kind
379
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:29.400
of propelling me back in the right
direction right like I stepped away from the
380
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:34.359
diamondbacks and that culture to the red
wings, which again seemed like a really
381
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.880
great idea and I got to do
some different things, but it wasn't in
382
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.470
line with what I really wanted to
do and the PS and the opportunity definitely
383
00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:51.029
got me going back in right direction. And then you had a kind of
384
00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:53.099
a turning point in your career.
You stayed at the state, at the
385
00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:57.779
Pistons, for a little bit,
you made some really amazing work there and
386
00:29:59.779 --> 00:30:04.299
then you decided to take off and
you went to an agency. What was
387
00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:10.730
going on at that point that made
you make that move? The agency idea
388
00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:15.329
was I want to deserve more money
into I shouldn't be working eighty plus hours
389
00:30:15.369 --> 00:30:19.170
a week anymore because I'm just I'm
tired, I need a break, and
390
00:30:19.769 --> 00:30:22.440
there were a few creative agencies in
Detroit at the time. You know,
391
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:27.319
the Detroit to pull itself out of
its kind of lows from five or ten
392
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.200
years part of that, and it
was a bit of a creative hub because
393
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:37.710
the incentives for creatives to come there
and you know, the if you were
394
00:30:37.750 --> 00:30:41.269
to film a movie there, if
they filmed a bunch of transformers movies and
395
00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:45.710
some of the avengers movies. I
think they're it's because the tax breaks that
396
00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:48.990
Michigan was giving folks for doing movies
there. So it started become a little
397
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.299
bit of a creative hot spot and
there were a bunch of little agencies that
398
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:56.140
were opening up and there was one
that caught my attention that I applied for.
399
00:30:56.619 --> 00:31:00.579
It was in a really good part
of suburban Detroit. They didn't really
400
00:31:00.619 --> 00:31:04.450
have somebody to to oversee their inhouse
video. They outsource a lot of videos.
401
00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:08.170
They were losing margins on the video
content projects that they were working out
402
00:31:08.170 --> 00:31:12.329
with their clients and I went and
I met with the CEO and we you
403
00:31:12.410 --> 00:31:15.609
know, he saw value and me
and I saw value and the opportunity to
404
00:31:15.690 --> 00:31:21.240
go there and make some good money. So I took that opportunity to try
405
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:26.039
something new and thankfully, you know, the Pistons were Nice about it and
406
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.559
they allowed me to consult with them
and help them kind of transition another member
407
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.869
of their staff to oversee the in
stadium production and you know, I worked
408
00:31:33.910 --> 00:31:37.190
with that person for a couple of
months while, you know, on night's
409
00:31:37.309 --> 00:31:41.549
weekends, while I started my new
job the agency. But quickly realize the
410
00:31:41.630 --> 00:31:45.829
agency life, at least at this
agency, was not it for me either
411
00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:52.740
him it. Although I was making
more money and the the work was good
412
00:31:53.019 --> 00:32:01.049
and hours were better, the culture
was just awful. Thankfully, my boss
413
00:32:01.089 --> 00:32:06.490
at the Pistons had moved on at
an opportunity with the Detroit Tigers and he
414
00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:10.410
needed a number to so he came
to my rescue, so speak, and
415
00:32:12.529 --> 00:32:15.400
I I left my job at the
agency. You know, this was this
416
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.359
is kind of a fun thing to
look back on because I was a little
417
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.000
bit mistreated again. Like I said, unfortunately some of my boss has had
418
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:28.640
some drinking problems and how they treated
their employees was reflected and some of those
419
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:30.630
problems. And you know, that
was a day where I wrote my letter
420
00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:34.710
of resignation. I printed it out, I left it on my desk,
421
00:32:34.750 --> 00:32:38.589
I cleared my my computer except for
my letter of resignation. I left that
422
00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:50.140
up and I just walked away.
So we talked about you know, I've
423
00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.220
been coming after you for a long
time because we had always wanted to rework
424
00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:57.940
together again since the minute you left
the d backs, and we ended up
425
00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:02.009
doing a lot of projects together through
that. But then, you know,
426
00:33:02.289 --> 00:33:07.529
we had a position open. That
was a perfect fit for you in Miami,
427
00:33:07.690 --> 00:33:12.849
and you know, I asked you
to come down and and and you
428
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.519
did tell me about that move.
Tell me about that time in your life
429
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:22.119
where, you know, you were
in a relationship, you were settling down
430
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.390
more. You know what made you
want to come out. So yeah,
431
00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:30.789
I mean it was a weird time
because, you know, as I mentioned
432
00:33:30.829 --> 00:33:35.750
before, previous opportunities to go to
other places, it was always somebody else
433
00:33:35.789 --> 00:33:37.509
that reached out. In this case
it was you know, you reached out
434
00:33:37.549 --> 00:33:43.980
to me for this job. But
when you left the diamondbacks, they're called
435
00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:46.660
the president, CEO of the team. The day you said that you were
436
00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:50.180
leaving her, maybe the day after. You know, within twenty four hours
437
00:33:50.539 --> 00:33:54.380
I got a text message from Brook, his assistant, asking if I was
438
00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:59.490
available for a conversation. Talked to
Brook. It's like yeah, absolutely,
439
00:33:59.490 --> 00:34:01.049
Let's I'd love to talk to Derek. It's been a long time since I've
440
00:34:01.089 --> 00:34:05.130
heard from him, and he basically
asked me, you know, we're losing
441
00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:07.289
johnny. I can't believe we're losing
johnny. It kills me. Will you
442
00:34:07.369 --> 00:34:10.159
come back and take his job?
And I told him no, as hard
443
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:15.840
as it was because I had started
dating a girl whom I didn't want to
444
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.079
up and leave. We just started
a relationship, things are going really well.
445
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.349
I had kind of been chasing job
opportunities around forever, so I said
446
00:34:24.389 --> 00:34:30.230
No. A couple weeks after that, my old leadership at the Pistons reached
447
00:34:30.269 --> 00:34:34.269
out and said, hey, we're
putting in a brand new video board.
448
00:34:34.429 --> 00:34:37.150
We need somebody with your expertise to
come run it. I know you just
449
00:34:37.309 --> 00:34:40.579
went to the Tigers. Do you
want to come back? And they offered
450
00:34:40.659 --> 00:34:43.900
me a good amount of money to
come to you that. I was like,
451
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.300
you know, what an opportunity to
build a brand new video board.
452
00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:51.340
Yep, let's do it. Cool, sign my awful letter. The next
453
00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:55.889
day you calm yep and you say, Yo, we just lost somebody in
454
00:34:55.969 --> 00:35:00.289
our video production team. You'd be
a great fit here. You want to
455
00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:04.610
come down to Miami, and I'm
like, what is going on? What's
456
00:35:04.650 --> 00:35:07.599
in the water? Everyone's calling me
and you know, I'm super, super
457
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:13.559
grateful for everybody. All three of
those conversations were amazing and I still have
458
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.760
good friendships with everybody who offered me
those opportunities. But you know, it
459
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.280
was a chance to work with you
again. It was a chance to work
460
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:25.429
in the NFL, which has this
aura, right, it has this energy.
461
00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:32.309
The NFL a shield, the greatest
show on Turfin or what all the
462
00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:37.340
other superlatives you want to throw at
it. But so I was like,
463
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:40.860
you know what, okay, like
let's let's really investigate this opportunity. And
464
00:35:42.219 --> 00:35:45.420
you know, again, the money
was was good, the opportunity was good
465
00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:49.739
to work with you again. I
was really excited about. You know,
466
00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:52.690
you guys were doing some things a
little bit differently and newer and kind of
467
00:35:53.250 --> 00:35:57.610
on the modern edge of creative content. You told me about this guy named
468
00:35:57.650 --> 00:36:00.090
Surf Melendez who was hired on the
same day that you were. That was
469
00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:04.050
kind of leading the creative direction.
You really got along with him and like
470
00:36:04.170 --> 00:36:06.880
working with him, and so I
said, you know what, let the
471
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.400
hell, let's let's give a shout, let's move down to the Florida.
472
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.719
Thankfully, that was one part of
the country that my male wife, but
473
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.030
girlfriend at the time, was open
to moving to. So we made it
474
00:36:19.150 --> 00:36:22.630
work, we figured out and,
you know, off to south Florida I
475
00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:28.349
went. Let's fast forward a little
bit after that, you know, we
476
00:36:28.389 --> 00:36:32.420
can talk about you, you leaving
the dolphins pretty quickly after that, taking
477
00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:37.980
a job, another job that you
were sought after very importantly, working for
478
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:43.539
Van Wagner back in Phoenix. So
you went back to Phoenix. You're feeling
479
00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:47.650
good. You and Lanney are loving
it out there. Once again, I
480
00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:53.289
come knocking on your door saying hey, buddy, let's let's let's, let's
481
00:36:53.329 --> 00:36:59.369
bring the party back. We have
this Dream Team now we've which we're really
482
00:36:59.489 --> 00:37:04.960
trying to create something really, really
next level here at the dolphins and and
483
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.360
we were at that point. We
were changing the course of of sports creative
484
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:15.159
from the photography, from the video
side and from the creative side. But
485
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.909
we really needed someone to take our
storytelling to the next level. You're the
486
00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:22.469
guy and I fought for you really, really hard to bring you back in
487
00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:28.070
and you came back in. How
was that transition back to coming back the
488
00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:34.460
Dolphins, new coaching staff and just
and just this feeling like we were going
489
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:38.139
up at right and nobody was going
to stop us. Sure, I want
490
00:37:38.179 --> 00:37:45.969
to preface, I guess, this
whole section of this chat with I don't
491
00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:52.130
aim to call anybody out, I
don't aim to name names, I don't
492
00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:55.289
aim to even name the organization,
as you know, doing anything wrong or
493
00:37:55.329 --> 00:38:01.159
negative or affecting me personally. I
don't think that. I think that the
494
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:07.719
challenges we're going to dive into our
I don't want to use the words systemic,
495
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:09.880
but I think that they're just a
part of sports culture. That is
496
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.349
a bigger issue, right. So
I'm going to do my absolute best to
497
00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:19.389
kind of not tiptoe around certain things, but I just I don't want to
498
00:38:19.429 --> 00:38:40.219
make anything personal. I left the
dolphins the first time because the culture,
499
00:38:42.489 --> 00:38:50.889
specifically in video creative, was challenging. There were there was a bit of
500
00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:55.639
a old versus new and that that
happens in every single culture, every single
501
00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.079
organization to some degree, especially when
there's new leadership that comes in and they
502
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.239
bring in New People and it's well, you know, the old ideas clearly
503
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.639
didn't work, which is why the
New People are here. So you have
504
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:12.750
to listen to our new ideas and
there's this this built in rivalry that is
505
00:39:12.869 --> 00:39:15.510
there and it was in spades at
the dolphins, at least during, you
506
00:39:15.590 --> 00:39:19.989
know, especially during my first tour
because, you know, you guys and
507
00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:22.829
new CEO and new c sweet people
and just there was a lot of new
508
00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:27.099
stuff going on because people were trying
to turn things around in Miami. It
509
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.059
was all there was a lot of
mediocre seasons there on and off the field.
510
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:36.420
You could argue and people wanted to
change things. So there are a
511
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:39.250
lot of really, really good people
that were put in really, really shitty
512
00:39:39.289 --> 00:39:46.050
positions culturally and kind of left without
a lot of leadership or support to figure
513
00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:51.210
it out on our own, and
it wasn't working. So I remove myself
514
00:39:51.250 --> 00:40:00.639
from the equation because I was very
unhappy. Fast forward to US moving back
515
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.800
to Arizona. I had taken a
great opportunity to be on the consultant provider
516
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.869
side of in stadium production with Van
Wagner Sports Entertainment. Anybody in the industry
517
00:40:09.869 --> 00:40:13.829
who knows who they are. They
do all the super bowls, the Olympics.
518
00:40:14.030 --> 00:40:17.269
They're super talented group of people who
have done things right for a really
519
00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:21.619
long time. I loved my job
with them because it gave me the opportunity
520
00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:24.699
to move back to Phoenix, which
had kind of become home for me and
521
00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:30.059
I very much missed it when I
moved away. When I left the diamondbacks
522
00:40:30.099 --> 00:40:32.260
back in two thousand and eleven,
but we were happy here. Things were
523
00:40:32.300 --> 00:40:37.010
going well, and then you called
and and basically, some changes, like
524
00:40:37.050 --> 00:40:39.130
you said, I've been made and
it was a great opportunity for me to
525
00:40:39.210 --> 00:40:43.690
come back and be a leader,
at least on the video and in game
526
00:40:43.889 --> 00:40:47.570
entertainment side for the dolphins. It
was my chance to change those things that
527
00:40:47.650 --> 00:40:53.760
I didn't enjoy before, or so
I thought, and so I was very
528
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.239
apprehensive. To be honest with you. It was not as easy of a
529
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:02.960
decision as it should have been.
It took a while to decide this is
530
00:41:04.429 --> 00:41:07.789
this is the right role, this
is the right thing to do. My
531
00:41:07.949 --> 00:41:12.909
wife was very apprehensive about it and
you know, I've now in hindsight and
532
00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:15.949
we'll get into it more, but
I will say that it kind of my
533
00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:22.260
career. This is the going back
to Miami was probably the my only major
534
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:24.940
regret my career, and you know, again, we'll dig into that.
535
00:41:25.099 --> 00:41:32.690
But my gut said no, but
my heart said yes, because my heart
536
00:41:32.889 --> 00:41:37.289
was I wanted to do things that
had never been done before and I wanted
537
00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:38.809
to push myself and I wanted to
work with you again and I wanted to
538
00:41:38.849 --> 00:41:42.889
work with surf again and I wanted
to be a part of the Dream Team
539
00:41:42.929 --> 00:41:47.599
and I wanted to be recognized for
my creative skills and you know my all
540
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.360
the work that I put into all
the moving. I thought would be justified
541
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:54.719
if we were able to just get
this core team of really amazing creatives together
542
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:59.199
to just do things that had never
been done before. And that was really
543
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:00.750
the reason why we said, Yep, okay, let's go back and let's
544
00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:08.590
give another shot. And it was
great for a short amount of time.
545
00:42:09.710 --> 00:42:16.099
And you, you were directing the
shows, you were calling the shots from
546
00:42:16.139 --> 00:42:23.539
up top and and there's an innate
pressure that comes along with that. Tell
547
00:42:23.619 --> 00:42:29.420
me some of the brand new stadium. Right. So we're we have a
548
00:42:29.539 --> 00:42:34.210
ton of stuff going on. We've
taking on a ton more roles and responsibility.
549
00:42:34.289 --> 00:42:37.449
Social media is at an all time
high. We are working with directly
550
00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:45.639
with facebook and in creating some massive
revenue streams from creative so there was this
551
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.519
high point where we said, hey, we are you know, we're not
552
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:54.199
creative services, we are create of
team, we are an inhouse agency and
553
00:42:54.280 --> 00:43:00.269
we are making money that we can
directly contribute to this. It kind of
554
00:43:01.070 --> 00:43:10.070
it took its toll because of the
drive that was the NFL. Tell me
555
00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:15.699
a little bit about how you felt
during this time. You went through a
556
00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:19.260
lot of ups and downs, that's
for sure. Yeah, and you know,
557
00:43:19.500 --> 00:43:22.900
here's something that a lot of creatives
who, hopefully we'll get a chance
558
00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:25.619
to listen and relate to this.
I think that they're all going to understand
559
00:43:27.250 --> 00:43:30.849
this. Next major point, and
it's you said, I was doing the
560
00:43:30.929 --> 00:43:35.449
in game presentation and that was absolutely
a major part of my job. And
561
00:43:35.769 --> 00:43:39.130
every single NFL Game Day or College
Football Game Day, Football Game Day,
562
00:43:40.010 --> 00:43:44.679
the weight of every single second.
You know, every second on the clock
563
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.400
matters, every foot on the field
matters, every down, every play,
564
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.199
every time out. You know you
if you make one mistake, that's the
565
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:57.070
difference between our winner a loss and
then the NFL wins and losses are so
566
00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:02.949
important. So the pressure is tenfold
for in game presentation. But let's,
567
00:44:04.070 --> 00:44:07.590
you know, let's remove that equation
of my job. When I said that
568
00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:12.340
the diamondbacks we were only doing in
game presentation because we didn't have our own
569
00:44:12.340 --> 00:44:15.260
digital media. At the red wings
was a little different, pistons a little
570
00:44:15.260 --> 00:44:20.179
bit different, but at the at
the dolphins, you guys had had burst
571
00:44:20.380 --> 00:44:24.809
a culture of digital content first and
it's because it was an amazing revenue stream.
572
00:44:24.849 --> 00:44:30.210
It was an amazing brand growth tool. You know, you guys.
573
00:44:30.329 --> 00:44:34.170
No longer was creative services looked at
as an expense. You were an asset.
574
00:44:34.570 --> 00:44:37.599
Right, all of a sudden,
you're making money for the organization in
575
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:45.599
ways. That something that used to
just drain money from did so. That's
576
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.360
where the emphasis shifted, and not
only was I responsible for overseeing the video
577
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:55.150
production for the ten come, the
two preseason games in game events at hard
578
00:44:55.190 --> 00:45:00.269
rock stadium, but I was responsible
for overseeing the video production team that created
579
00:45:00.389 --> 00:45:05.829
now hundreds of pieces of content throughout
the year that was sponsorable, that was
580
00:45:05.909 --> 00:45:10.099
sold, that drove ticket sales.
All of a sudden that became the major,
581
00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:14.500
major priority. Ninety five percent of
had to go to everything that we
582
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:16.860
had signed ourselves up for in terms
of content creation. And not only that,
583
00:45:17.260 --> 00:45:22.210
but we had this massive target on
our backs, both internally and externally,
584
00:45:22.570 --> 00:45:28.530
to be the best in sports,
and it that's where it took a
585
00:45:28.610 --> 00:45:30.929
toll. Right, I'm you know, we're on everybody. It wasn't just
586
00:45:31.090 --> 00:45:34.650
me, it wasn't just you,
it wasn't everybody that was a part of
587
00:45:34.690 --> 00:45:39.559
our team, but it was the
entire organization, because we started writing checks
588
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:45.480
that we're a part of the greater
brand vision, but we didn't have the
589
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.670
staff or the tools in order to
sustain it at a way that made living
590
00:45:50.710 --> 00:46:09.500
as a normal human being possible.
So, you know, like you said,
591
00:46:09.619 --> 00:46:12.940
when I got there at the beginning, I came back, it was
592
00:46:13.059 --> 00:46:15.019
great. Yes, we still had
some of our cultural challenges, yes,
593
00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:17.690
we still had some of that old
versus new mentality, but it was better
594
00:46:17.730 --> 00:46:22.130
than it had ever been before and
we were doing some really, really amazing
595
00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:28.170
things in preparation for this new season. Now here's where things start to get
596
00:46:29.130 --> 00:46:35.039
twisted from me personally. Never ever
in sports, in my sports career,
597
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:39.960
had I worked closely with the team
and I again, I'm going to preface
598
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:43.840
this with I'm not I'm not here
to call anybody out. I'm not going
599
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.630
to name names, I'm not going
to I'm going to say I was never
600
00:46:46.670 --> 00:46:50.750
asked to break a rule. I
want to make sure that was absolutely clear.
601
00:46:51.309 --> 00:46:54.469
Nobody ever asked me to break the
rules. However, I was asked
602
00:46:54.510 --> 00:47:00.659
to spend a lot of time and
energy and thought into doing every little single
603
00:47:00.820 --> 00:47:06.980
thing that I could to provide a
home field advantage for our team. Again,
604
00:47:07.219 --> 00:47:09.099
never to break a rule. I
was never I was never put in
605
00:47:09.139 --> 00:47:13.980
a spot where where I was told
to do something that would be against the
606
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:20.289
rules, but I didn't feel good
about all of the energy and time I
607
00:47:20.489 --> 00:47:23.730
was spent on all of this other
stuff not related to entertaining the fans at
608
00:47:23.730 --> 00:47:29.289
hard rock stadium or making sure that, you know, we were fulfilling our
609
00:47:29.329 --> 00:47:35.880
sponsorship requirements or we were making a
moment or something for a young fan to
610
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.039
look back on and tell their friends
about at school. All my energy and
611
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:43.159
focus, at least on Game Day, went to how are we going to
612
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:47.349
help the team win? And that's
not something I ever thought I signed up
613
00:47:47.469 --> 00:47:52.710
for. And I was pushed and
pushed and pushed to the point where it
614
00:47:52.909 --> 00:47:57.829
just made me feel gross inside.
Because it's this. This wasn't why I
615
00:47:57.869 --> 00:48:00.059
did what I did. I did
this to be a part of moments and
616
00:48:00.099 --> 00:48:08.179
make memories and share in the the
amazing faith based entertainment that is pro sports.
617
00:48:08.539 --> 00:48:14.010
Not what do I got to do
every second of this game to provide
618
00:48:14.010 --> 00:48:16.329
a home field advantage? It just
it went way too far on the other
619
00:48:16.409 --> 00:48:22.769
side of the spectrum. What what
was the debate raging in your head at
620
00:48:22.809 --> 00:48:27.159
that point? Well, it was
like, why am I doing this?
621
00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.840
Who Am I? Who am I
doing this for? At what point is
622
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:35.960
this too much? I'll tell you
a really quick story. When I knew.
623
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:38.400
I knew this was a problem because
I was fighting it internally at the
624
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:45.389
beginning. You know, I started
reviewing all of these different opportunities and ways
625
00:48:45.750 --> 00:48:51.030
to provide a on field advantage and
I spent more time with the football leadership
626
00:48:51.070 --> 00:48:55.860
that I had ever spent with any
other sports team leadership before in cultivating these
627
00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:00.619
opportunities to provide a home field advantage. And I was asked by my leadership
628
00:49:00.699 --> 00:49:04.579
to be a part of it.
And again, I don't. I don't
629
00:49:04.579 --> 00:49:07.860
think this is anything that other NFL
teams aren't doing right. Every NFL team
630
00:49:07.940 --> 00:49:13.409
is trying to win football games period. That's what it's all about. But
631
00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:15.690
it just wasn't something I'd ever been
asked to do before. So I felt
632
00:49:15.730 --> 00:49:20.690
like I was doing something wrong,
or I was I would spend time,
633
00:49:20.730 --> 00:49:27.599
effort energy on something that wasn't at
my core values of why I did sports
634
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:31.079
creative and it was extremely conflicting.
And you know, one story that kind
635
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:36.199
of was a boiling point for me, at least in the beginning of all
636
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:42.110
this, was week one of the
two thousand and seventeen NFL season. I
637
00:49:42.269 --> 00:49:45.630
forget the name. Was Irma Herrican
RMA? Yeah, whatever the name of
638
00:49:45.630 --> 00:49:49.949
the hurricane was, was coming through
South Florida and it was on a trajectory,
639
00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:52.380
a crash course with Miami Gardens,
which is where our cdium was,
640
00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:59.860
and so they canceled week one,
our game against Tampa Bay, and where
641
00:49:59.900 --> 00:50:04.820
I lived was in an evacuation zone. So myself and my new wife had
642
00:50:04.900 --> 00:50:07.610
to go back up to Michigan to
spend a few days with our family.
643
00:50:07.610 --> 00:50:10.090
Were renewed be safe. And I
had landed in Michigan and I had been
644
00:50:10.210 --> 00:50:15.369
there for maybe three hours. That
was the the money day night, or
645
00:50:15.409 --> 00:50:17.610
not, maybe the Thursday, the
Thursday night, because it was a Thursday
646
00:50:17.610 --> 00:50:22.880
night game to start the season.
I get a text message from someone within
647
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.800
the Organization asking me if I was
watching the Monday or the Thursday night football
648
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:31.039
game and studying the plays to make
sure that I was knowing what I needed
649
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:36.710
to do come Game Day for our
first Game Day. I mean, I
650
00:50:36.949 --> 00:50:40.230
literally just gotten off a plane evacuating
my family from a hurricane and I'm start
651
00:50:40.550 --> 00:50:45.909
catching shit from not my boss,
from somebody else on the other side of
652
00:50:45.949 --> 00:50:50.099
the organization saying I really need to
be watching this game and studying these plays.
653
00:50:51.460 --> 00:50:55.340
That was that was the beginning of
the end. I was really upset
654
00:50:55.420 --> 00:51:00.340
by that and it was you know, never again did I feel like I
655
00:51:00.579 --> 00:51:06.130
was being considered a human and dealing
with real life problems and I needed to
656
00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:09.090
put the priorities of winning football games
even watching games that were unrelated to my
657
00:51:09.250 --> 00:51:38.389
team. That was the beginning of
the end for me. Hey, everybody.
658
00:51:38.590 --> 00:51:43.190
So I want to take a quick
minute here to preface this next part
659
00:51:43.230 --> 00:51:45.949
and say that there maybe some triggers
here for some of you, is there
660
00:51:45.989 --> 00:51:52.739
were for me listening to this.
Our mental health should absolutely be the most
661
00:51:52.780 --> 00:51:57.019
important thing in our daily lives and, as you can delve from the past
662
00:51:57.139 --> 00:52:00.530
fifteen minutes, there are many,
many things in our lives that contribute to
663
00:52:01.130 --> 00:52:07.050
our own individual breaking points. Some
we can control and some we can't.
664
00:52:07.849 --> 00:52:12.849
But I just want to make sure
everyone knows that help is available. There
665
00:52:12.889 --> 00:52:15.880
are many, many small steps you
can do to break out of the vicious
666
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:22.760
cycle that is depression, headache,
anxiety and even further issues. Now,
667
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:27.559
I'm not a therapist or a counselor
by any means. But I do know
668
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:30.869
the things that worked for me,
where things like sucking up my ego and
669
00:52:31.030 --> 00:52:37.030
going to therapy, learning how to
breathe properly to distract my anxiety, even
670
00:52:37.070 --> 00:52:43.070
if for just a few minutes,
in using mindfulness exercises this as often as
671
00:52:43.070 --> 00:52:47.699
I needed them to help myself relax. So every Friday I'm going to record
672
00:52:47.820 --> 00:52:52.980
some mindfulness meditation exercises that you can
feel free to really do any time you
673
00:52:53.059 --> 00:52:58.849
feel anxiety and panics. And No, they may not help immediately, but
674
00:52:59.730 --> 00:53:02.530
as you begin to build habits with
them and deal with some of the other
675
00:53:02.610 --> 00:53:07.650
issues causing these feels, I hope
you'll be able to effectively mediate some of
676
00:53:07.690 --> 00:53:14.159
the things that are going on inside
you. Thanks for hearing me out and
677
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:30.510
now let's head back in for the
second half of will story. Is that
678
00:53:30.630 --> 00:53:35.750
your lowest point? No, AH, it gets it got worse for sure.
679
00:53:37.590 --> 00:53:45.019
So my my absolute breaking point,
I guess, emotionally and for all
680
00:53:45.139 --> 00:53:49.059
the years leading up to to you
know, this season is two thousand and
681
00:53:49.099 --> 00:53:52.340
seventeen year, I had always done
a really, really good job dealing with
682
00:53:52.460 --> 00:53:57.449
adversity and dealing with having my back
against the wall and deadlines and stress.
683
00:53:57.570 --> 00:54:00.090
I didn't really get stressed out like
I get annoyed and pissed off like everybody
684
00:54:00.090 --> 00:54:05.369
else does it certain things at certain
times, but I would always be okay
685
00:54:05.570 --> 00:54:07.690
and I'd always kind of work through
it and I always got it done,
686
00:54:08.010 --> 00:54:12.039
you know, and you know as
a creative sometimes when your backs against the
687
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.239
wall you do your best work.
So I would almost position myself in that
688
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:19.320
way because I knew that if I
procrastinated up until point, I would be
689
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:22.079
forced to get it done and I
would do a great job. I wouldn't
690
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:27.309
get myself time to think about it. But in this is when things started
691
00:54:27.389 --> 00:54:30.710
to change. This is when I
started to doubt myself and my instincts.
692
00:54:30.750 --> 00:54:36.190
And so fast forward, you know. That was week one. I mentioned
693
00:54:36.309 --> 00:54:40.579
the game, you know, got
moved and things progressively started to get worse.
694
00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:45.099
We had a rough season. I
think we were formed for at this
695
00:54:45.179 --> 00:54:49.820
point in the season. It's week
nine, Sun Night Football against the Oakland
696
00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:57.409
raiders the so the regular one o'clock
games are pretty simple, right. You
697
00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:00.809
have your commercial breaks, you have
your one o'clock kickoff time, nothing too
698
00:55:00.889 --> 00:55:05.650
crazy happens because it's just a standard
broadcast window and everything in the NFL is
699
00:55:05.690 --> 00:55:08.400
about the broadcast because of the TV
revenue and it that makes sense. So
700
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:15.039
Sunday night and Monday night things get
a little different because their primetime entertainment.
701
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:20.239
So the broadcast has some wiggle room
as to what they want to do and
702
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:22.710
when they want to do it if
they feel it's going to make for a
703
00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:28.309
better broadcast experience. So a pregame, the broadcasters, the in Stadium Folks
704
00:55:28.510 --> 00:55:31.510
and the referees always have a pregame
meeting. I was at the meeting for
705
00:55:31.590 --> 00:55:39.340
this game and the producer for Fox
says if the score is I don't remember
706
00:55:39.380 --> 00:55:43.980
what it was, if the scored
differentials nine points are more, we will
707
00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:49.460
continue with the fourth quarter final break
as normal. If it's less than that,
708
00:55:50.010 --> 00:55:52.250
will cancel the break. Will do
a quick one minute break and come
709
00:55:52.329 --> 00:55:57.530
back so people that we don't lose
people to get the action, kind of
710
00:55:57.690 --> 00:56:00.809
in in in, one year out
the other, type thing. Like Yep,
711
00:56:00.809 --> 00:56:02.889
I acknowledged it. Shook my head. Okay, Great. Fast forward
712
00:56:02.929 --> 00:56:07.280
to that point in the game.
It's the fourth quarter. Two minute warning.
713
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.559
It's a stop down. You have
to take a commercial break, like
714
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:15.440
it's always been tradition, or at
least it was for many years leading up
715
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:17.199
to that point at the Miami Dolphins, for the cheerleaders to perform during that
716
00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:21.309
break. They go on the field, they do their ninety two routine in
717
00:56:21.429 --> 00:56:23.030
one of the end zones, everybody
claps, we go back to football.
718
00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:29.269
At break was always reserved a cheer
and canceling that break, although doable,
719
00:56:29.630 --> 00:56:31.030
was kind of frowned upon. We
kind of we wanted to keep them in
720
00:56:31.070 --> 00:56:36.420
that break because people were used to
seeing them there. Well, we were
721
00:56:36.460 --> 00:56:39.059
at that point where I think the
point differential was like one more or one
722
00:56:39.099 --> 00:56:44.579
less than the that that guy said
and, to be honest with you,
723
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:49.369
I was dealing with so much worrying
about all those home field advantage things that
724
00:56:49.409 --> 00:56:53.369
I needed to be worried about that
I wasn't in my instincts to do that.
725
00:56:53.449 --> 00:56:58.010
I kind of lost sight of the
situation in the game. So I
726
00:56:59.130 --> 00:57:01.880
just assumed everything was normal, roll
the cheerleaders on the field. Nobody had
727
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:07.079
communicated to me otherwise that the broadcast
was going to take a short break and
728
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.960
sure enough, after a minute,
referee moves his arms, blows a whistle.
729
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:15.309
Let's go. I'm still playing music, cheerleaders are still dancing on the
730
00:57:15.349 --> 00:57:20.829
field and Jay Cutler's lining up behind
our center to take a snap in the
731
00:57:20.949 --> 00:57:23.829
end zone or near the end zone
where the cheeladers are performing. I scream
732
00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:29.150
at my DJ, kill the music, kill the music. We kill the
733
00:57:29.190 --> 00:57:31.980
music as our offense is lining up
to hike the football, which if I
734
00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:36.860
mean, as you know, John
but others, playing any music or any
735
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:39.260
audio at all while we're on offense, was a huge no no in terms
736
00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:44.139
of the home field advantage stuff that
we're talking about. So I already made
737
00:57:44.139 --> 00:57:49.809
a major mistake there in the eyes
of our football operations. But you know,
738
00:57:49.929 --> 00:57:52.730
the cheerleaders are on the field,
music stops. They're trained with if
739
00:57:52.769 --> 00:57:54.409
the music cuts out early that they
stopped and they walk off the field,
740
00:57:54.409 --> 00:57:58.210
but they do it in uniform and
inline. So it took them like another
741
00:57:58.329 --> 00:58:05.159
twenty seconds off the field. And
my phone starts blowing up. Everybody within
742
00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:08.360
the organization that mattered was calling,
texting, email me. What the fuck
743
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:14.389
was that? What the fuck is
going on? Expletive, expletive, I'm
744
00:58:14.429 --> 00:58:17.510
getting calls on the radio. It
was like my world was crashing down upon
745
00:58:17.590 --> 00:58:21.909
me and, to be honest with
you, any other time in my life
746
00:58:21.909 --> 00:58:23.789
I feel like I would have handled
this situation? Yep, fucked up.
747
00:58:23.869 --> 00:58:27.500
Timmy was off. We got the
field no problem. Actually, I think
748
00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:31.139
Jay Cutler completed that pass, so
it was a we're back in the football
749
00:58:31.139 --> 00:58:35.059
game, like things are okay.
I didn't, I didn't affect the game
750
00:58:35.059 --> 00:58:39.139
at all. Right, people watching
on TV didn't notice. The broadcasters didn't
751
00:58:39.139 --> 00:58:43.250
acknowledge it. It kind of just
the folks who knew what was going on
752
00:58:43.409 --> 00:58:47.929
with the actual event itself noticed it, but most people did. And as
753
00:58:49.210 --> 00:58:52.570
my world starts crashing down on me. You know what scene in jaws where
754
00:58:52.610 --> 00:58:54.489
they do the camera trick where like
they zoom out but it stays on the
755
00:58:55.000 --> 00:59:00.119
guy's face like I felt like that
was happening, like my everything went numb
756
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:07.199
and silent and about ten seconds later
I wake up on my console in a
757
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:12.110
complete cold sweat. I had passed
out. My Body had a fight or
758
00:59:12.150 --> 00:59:16.429
flight moment and it picked flight and
left me and in my body laying their
759
00:59:16.469 --> 00:59:25.860
covered in sweat and I've got a
whole crew of people trying to get my
760
00:59:25.900 --> 00:59:29.420
attention on headset, trying to ask
me what to do next, and I'm
761
00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:37.340
out cold. And that was that
moment. was where I realized I've pushed
762
00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:42.690
myself way too far and I'm I'm
not well and I have to do something
763
00:59:42.730 --> 00:59:46.570
about this. So I went home
that night. We lost the game,
764
00:59:47.090 --> 00:59:52.250
but what happened on the field with
the cheerleaders was inconsequential. It didn't matter.
765
00:59:52.769 --> 00:59:55.239
People were pissed off and annoyed,
but it didn't have an effect on
766
00:59:55.280 --> 00:60:00.559
the game. I caught a tremendous
amount of ship for it. We actually
767
00:60:00.639 --> 00:60:05.000
what's funny, as I reached out
to director broadcasting with the NFL after that
768
00:60:05.079 --> 00:60:07.829
happened, it basically explained what had
happened, owned up for the mistake that
769
00:60:07.869 --> 00:60:12.070
I made by not assuming that we
were going to shorten that break and kind
770
00:60:12.070 --> 00:60:17.789
of losing sight of of that being
a possibility. And because of that happening
771
00:60:19.469 --> 00:60:22.900
there's actually now new things, new
protocols and which we're able to communicate with
772
00:60:23.780 --> 00:60:29.340
the broadcast if we're going to make
a change like that. So it's not
773
00:60:29.500 --> 00:60:31.699
like a massive rule change was made, but new protocols were put in place
774
00:60:31.739 --> 00:60:35.889
to protect against that. So at
least there was a positive that came out
775
00:60:35.889 --> 00:60:38.809
of that. But again, yeah, unless you were paying close attention to
776
00:60:38.849 --> 00:60:40.849
it or knew what was supposed to
happen, you would have ever known to
777
00:60:40.969 --> 00:60:45.170
happen, but it that my world
came crumbling down in that moment, for
778
00:60:45.289 --> 00:61:07.789
sure. Wow. So this was
a this was the lowest point, the
779
00:61:07.829 --> 00:61:10.389
rock bottom point, that that you
had been in probably in your career.
780
00:61:12.829 --> 00:61:19.099
And thinking back on this, were
there any signs? Were there any things
781
00:61:19.179 --> 00:61:23.619
that you could have done to better
prevent or protect yourself from getting to this
782
00:61:23.860 --> 00:61:29.820
point? Yeah, I mean I
think that it was obviously, you know,
783
00:61:30.300 --> 00:61:38.329
ten years of grinding and long hours
and late nights and sacrificing birthdays and
784
00:61:38.570 --> 00:61:43.610
holidays and weddings and you know,
all the things that you kind of give
785
00:61:43.650 --> 00:61:49.599
up in your real life to keep
pushing and grinding and pursuing the needs of
786
00:61:50.119 --> 00:61:53.159
the creative world, but also sports
creative in the in the crazy expectations that
787
00:61:53.239 --> 00:61:58.480
come with it. I think that
it was a culm nation of all of
788
00:61:58.679 --> 00:62:01.309
that weight that was just building and
building and building, and I wasn't paying
789
00:62:01.309 --> 00:62:04.869
attention to it. And I you
know, I. We all know about
790
00:62:04.869 --> 00:62:07.110
the hours. We know what we
sign up for right, we know kind
791
00:62:07.150 --> 00:62:12.510
of what's to be expected of us
to an extent. But when you reach
792
00:62:12.710 --> 00:62:15.940
that level that I was at,
me as a director level. So it's
793
00:62:15.980 --> 00:62:20.539
middle management right. You're catching it
from both sides and I think all of
794
00:62:20.659 --> 00:62:24.380
the expectations and the different things that
were going on with the amount of content
795
00:62:24.420 --> 00:62:29.260
that we were trying to create,
the expectations from football just, you know,
796
00:62:29.340 --> 00:62:36.369
the the layers finally broke me.
And I think that even though I
797
00:62:36.409 --> 00:62:42.050
knew deep down in my heart and
in my soul and my gut this probably
798
00:62:42.130 --> 00:62:45.639
was coming at some point in time, it definitely blindsided me because I was
799
00:62:45.960 --> 00:62:50.440
I buried it, I was ignoring
it, I was I just thought that
800
00:62:50.559 --> 00:62:53.039
this was what was expected of me
and my role and it this was normal,
801
00:62:53.280 --> 00:62:58.320
you know. And finally, you
know it, I just went over
802
00:62:58.400 --> 00:63:00.630
the edge and my body gave out
and said no more. You can't do
803
00:63:00.829 --> 00:63:05.630
this to yourself anymore, mentally or
physically. It just isn't possible. And
804
00:63:06.510 --> 00:63:14.139
so, yeah, it was just
normalizing some of those expectations for so long
805
00:63:14.699 --> 00:63:17.340
and again my body just saying no, that's not how this is supposed to
806
00:63:17.380 --> 00:63:27.099
go. There's there's a feeling that
we both had many times and in that
807
00:63:27.250 --> 00:63:30.969
I think a lot of other young
creatives are or not young creatives, are
808
00:63:30.010 --> 00:63:36.010
fighting with right now and it's the
feeling that we're stuck in what we thought
809
00:63:37.409 --> 00:63:42.480
was a dream job but turned out
to be not necessarily the dream we expected.
810
00:63:42.679 --> 00:63:49.639
Right the hours, the give everything
to the team, mentality, excessive
811
00:63:50.039 --> 00:63:55.190
productivity, porn addictions, the rise
and grind. It hits us to the
812
00:63:55.230 --> 00:64:01.630
point where it's so unhealthy that we
that we drive ourselves to have such anxiety
813
00:64:02.190 --> 00:64:11.780
and panic that you literally pass out
midplay, and it's it's so insanely unhealthy
814
00:64:13.099 --> 00:64:17.539
in it. Tell me about,
you know, tell me about these things
815
00:64:17.699 --> 00:64:24.369
in kind of the actions that you
took after this happened to make a change.
816
00:64:25.969 --> 00:64:30.090
I started to identify, you know, that I was I was really
817
00:64:30.250 --> 00:64:34.730
ill. I was not well inside. Now I had let my physical health
818
00:64:34.730 --> 00:64:42.880
and wellbeing go because my mental health
and wellbeing wasn't there anymore. I was
819
00:64:43.559 --> 00:64:45.599
drinking like a half a bottle.
took a bottle of wine every single night,
820
00:64:45.639 --> 00:64:49.920
which I thought was normal and obviously
in hindsight I know it's not normal.
821
00:64:50.679 --> 00:64:55.909
I was doing that so I could
come down from the pressure and the
822
00:64:56.909 --> 00:65:00.550
constant grind of what we're doing every
single day, and we're talking seven days
823
00:65:00.550 --> 00:65:02.869
a week. I mean we were
working Saturdays and Sundays all throughout the year
824
00:65:02.949 --> 00:65:09.380
too. So I did that so
I could sleep, essentially, and was
825
00:65:09.539 --> 00:65:15.699
just digging the hole deeper and deeper
and deeper. You know, friendships were
826
00:65:15.739 --> 00:65:21.130
strained, relationships were strained, family
relationships were strained. I was giving ninety
827
00:65:21.170 --> 00:65:25.849
five percent of my life to this
organization and everything that was being asked of
828
00:65:25.929 --> 00:65:30.050
me and I was coming home with
whatever was left in the tank and using
829
00:65:30.130 --> 00:65:33.530
that to just get myself through the
last couple hours before I was able to
830
00:65:33.570 --> 00:65:38.800
fall asleep and do it all over
again. So identifying those things was step
831
00:65:39.119 --> 00:65:44.840
one and realizing that it wasn't okay
and I wasn't healthy and this was beyond
832
00:65:44.840 --> 00:65:47.440
any sort of burn out that I
had felt before. This was this was
833
00:65:47.480 --> 00:65:54.630
absolute rock bottom for me personally that
I had to get away from and that
834
00:65:54.789 --> 00:65:59.269
meant no more chasing other supporters jobs. I needed to be done with sports,
835
00:66:00.510 --> 00:66:02.750
at least for a little while,
because I just I couldn't do it
836
00:66:02.829 --> 00:66:09.019
anymore. That it's scare you to
think that there may not be life outside
837
00:66:09.019 --> 00:66:13.420
of sports for you. It I
knew that I would be successful and I
838
00:66:13.500 --> 00:66:15.699
could do things outside of sports.
I knew that I had value. You
839
00:66:17.099 --> 00:66:21.449
know, operationally, creatively whatever.
I think I have inherent skills as a
840
00:66:21.489 --> 00:66:28.449
leader that I would have been okay
doing whatever, but I was scared that
841
00:66:28.530 --> 00:66:32.960
I was going to throw away eleven
years of Grind, eleven years of working
842
00:66:33.079 --> 00:66:38.039
my ass off, eleven years of
bouncing around and meeting people and making relationships
843
00:66:38.079 --> 00:66:43.199
and building a real and building a
portfolio and all the things that you feel
844
00:66:43.239 --> 00:66:47.030
like you will just abandon and you'll
be nothing without you. We associate ourselves
845
00:66:47.070 --> 00:66:54.510
with that work so much and I
was terrified that that was going to I
846
00:66:54.630 --> 00:66:57.070
was going to leave that behind and
it was going to float away forever.
847
00:66:58.429 --> 00:67:03.500
How did you break away from the
identity that was so wrapped up in professional
848
00:67:03.539 --> 00:67:10.340
sports for the past eleven years of
your life? So I took the job
849
00:67:10.460 --> 00:67:16.889
opportunity doing something different. You know, I did something that was altruistic.
850
00:67:18.170 --> 00:67:21.449
You. We met a guy named
Doug Betters in during our time with the
851
00:67:21.489 --> 00:67:27.849
dolphins. We told an amazing story
of him and his struggles and his triumphs
852
00:67:27.929 --> 00:67:31.039
in life and he used that term
altruistic. Could be honest, I had
853
00:67:31.159 --> 00:67:36.719
never heard it before, but in
describing his why for doing what he's done
854
00:67:36.760 --> 00:67:43.440
charitably, I needed to find that
I needed to stop trying to better myself
855
00:67:43.719 --> 00:67:47.429
and gain ground myself and take steps
forward myself and figure out ways that I
856
00:67:47.510 --> 00:67:54.789
could help other people be successful and
help other people. Essentially, I needed
857
00:67:54.829 --> 00:68:00.780
to serve something other than myself.
So I definitely needed to focus on that
858
00:68:00.980 --> 00:68:05.260
and thankfully, through a wife and
through connections with her organization, was able
859
00:68:05.380 --> 00:68:12.219
to do that, and now I'm
working with clinical professionals and helping children with
860
00:68:12.340 --> 00:68:15.449
autism and their families. I mean
that that has been such a great blessing
861
00:68:15.489 --> 00:68:19.770
because it's my why is no longer
selling tickets. My why is no longer
862
00:68:19.890 --> 00:68:25.289
winning football games or baseball games or
hockey games. My why is no longer
863
00:68:25.369 --> 00:68:30.520
making athletes and CEOS look good.
My why is helping children who have special
864
00:68:30.600 --> 00:68:34.640
needs get the support that they so
desperately need, and that is so much
865
00:68:34.640 --> 00:68:42.590
more important than any of the things
that I just mentioned. So that was
866
00:68:43.029 --> 00:68:46.270
one massive part of pulling myself out
of the hole that I had dug and
867
00:68:46.550 --> 00:69:09.380
been sitting in for a long time. With all that comes probably quite a
868
00:69:09.420 --> 00:69:14.489
bit of a ptsd and it's not
an easy thing to get out of.
869
00:69:14.729 --> 00:69:18.930
Explain, explain the feelings, explain
the process that you went through for the
870
00:69:19.050 --> 00:69:26.960
first six months leaving. So if
I thought that I was messed up while
871
00:69:27.000 --> 00:69:32.960
I was in it, nothing was
even close to how low I've I hit
872
00:69:33.479 --> 00:69:38.439
once I was out of it.
Because not only you know when you're in
873
00:69:38.560 --> 00:69:45.470
it and you're even though you are
exhausted and you're frustrated in your you're battling
874
00:69:45.630 --> 00:69:47.909
with your own inner thoughts and demons
when you're in that role, when you
875
00:69:48.029 --> 00:69:51.350
step out of it now, all
of a sudden your mind has time to
876
00:69:51.510 --> 00:69:58.060
wander and you you have to downshift
from that grind that you've been at for
877
00:69:58.220 --> 00:70:02.739
so long that you start to feel
guilty for not doing that anymore. It's
878
00:70:02.739 --> 00:70:06.369
a very weird, very real thing
and I know other people who have gotten
879
00:70:06.369 --> 00:70:11.250
out of it have gone through it
too. It took me a full year,
880
00:70:11.329 --> 00:70:18.649
a full year to even feel somewhat
like myself again. I was in
881
00:70:18.850 --> 00:70:24.159
my own head, I was depressed, I was I felt guilty about not
882
00:70:24.399 --> 00:70:27.800
doing what I used to do,
I felt guilty about not quote working as
883
00:70:27.840 --> 00:70:31.560
hard as I used to, I
felt guilty about working from home and I
884
00:70:31.800 --> 00:70:35.710
met it did really it took a
full year to just be okay with being
885
00:70:35.829 --> 00:70:42.789
okay. So that's a real thing
and it's that PTSD is something that needs
886
00:70:42.789 --> 00:70:48.430
to be discussed. I had physical
challenges right like there. I went through
887
00:70:49.020 --> 00:70:55.819
like three to six months of Grd
of basically the guy. I couldn't speak
888
00:70:55.979 --> 00:70:59.979
my because I had so much acid
reflux pent up and it was burning my
889
00:71:00.020 --> 00:71:02.340
esophagus that I like I couldn't speak
like normally. Love my voice changed.
890
00:71:02.739 --> 00:71:06.689
I mean physical things are happening to
me that I'd finally manifested from all that
891
00:71:06.810 --> 00:71:12.329
time that I'd spent beating myself down
mentally and physically. So that's a real
892
00:71:12.529 --> 00:71:16.050
thing, but it passes and you
get through it and you get past it
893
00:71:16.250 --> 00:71:23.399
and you you see that those are
results of positions you put yourself in,
894
00:71:23.600 --> 00:71:27.159
mentally and physically, and I also
want to be sure to mention that I
895
00:71:27.319 --> 00:71:30.239
know that there are many things that
I could have done differently to make this
896
00:71:30.479 --> 00:71:36.189
easier on myself. I'm not blaming
organizations, people or cultures or things like
897
00:71:36.270 --> 00:71:42.029
that as the sole reason why I
hit at low. I know that there's
898
00:71:42.069 --> 00:71:46.859
a lot of personal responsibility, but
ultimately the personal responsibility to get better was
899
00:71:46.939 --> 00:71:49.500
what pulled me out of it too, and recognizing that, like I have
900
00:71:49.699 --> 00:71:54.380
control over how I feel. I
have control over how I let other people
901
00:71:54.460 --> 00:72:00.819
make me feel. I have control
over how I used to feel not allowing
902
00:72:00.899 --> 00:72:03.689
that to impact me today, because
that, you know, fear of leaving
903
00:72:03.810 --> 00:72:09.170
that behind in the past is is
a real fear, but it's it's self
904
00:72:09.289 --> 00:72:14.130
inflicted. Like I still have all
the same contacts and friends. In some
905
00:72:14.289 --> 00:72:18.199
cases my friendships have gotten better with
sports people since I've, you know,
906
00:72:18.560 --> 00:72:24.960
moved on from there. So kind
of longwinded way of saying like, yeah,
907
00:72:25.039 --> 00:72:30.310
that's that Shit's deal and it shouldn't
be ignored. It should be expected.
908
00:72:30.510 --> 00:72:32.710
If you're going to make a move
and you're going to do a career
909
00:72:32.789 --> 00:72:36.069
change, you're going to try something
different, you're going to experience a whole
910
00:72:36.109 --> 00:72:43.750
spectrum of emotions and feelings, but
know that they'll pass as you start to
911
00:72:43.829 --> 00:72:46.579
understand what normal really is supposed to
feel like, because what you were feeling,
912
00:72:46.699 --> 00:72:51.420
what you think you're supposed to feel, isn't normal. Most people don't
913
00:72:51.460 --> 00:72:56.579
work that much and grind that hard
and are forced to meet deadlines that are
914
00:72:56.619 --> 00:73:01.569
unrealistic for so long and you know
you will get on the other side of
915
00:73:01.609 --> 00:73:12.170
it for sure. There's a there's
a toxicity right now in design twitter,
916
00:73:12.289 --> 00:73:17.199
and in a lot of that's because
of we are the the circles that we
917
00:73:17.239 --> 00:73:21.479
run in, and design twitter,
and I use that in quotes, is
918
00:73:23.239 --> 00:73:29.029
sports design twitter essentially it now.
But but you've been able to devote a
919
00:73:29.069 --> 00:73:32.069
ton of your time and talents to
to speak with and you're very open about
920
00:73:32.069 --> 00:73:36.390
saying that. My DMS are open. Hit Me Up, let me know,
921
00:73:36.630 --> 00:73:39.829
let's talk. You've talked to a
lot of people, you've made a
922
00:73:39.869 --> 00:73:43.819
lot of really good friends. It
helped a lot of people through this.
923
00:73:43.939 --> 00:73:47.659
How do you view this current landscape? Even now, in the time of
924
00:73:48.020 --> 00:73:53.779
Covid win, so many of our
friends and peers has zero job security in
925
00:73:53.859 --> 00:73:58.770
sports and our losing their jobs,
are putting on, going on furlough in
926
00:73:59.369 --> 00:74:02.529
in how can some of these how
can these creatives, you know, kind
927
00:74:02.569 --> 00:74:06.649
of identify issues that they may be
fighting with, demons that they may be
928
00:74:06.770 --> 00:74:11.880
fighting with, and shield themselves from
this and kind of really start to take
929
00:74:11.960 --> 00:74:15.520
control of their lives and realize that
there's something else besides that out there?
930
00:74:15.720 --> 00:74:21.960
I think that there is a blessing
and a curse that's happening in sports creative
931
00:74:23.319 --> 00:74:28.510
because of Covid nineteen and, believe
me, I do not wish anyone to
932
00:74:28.590 --> 00:74:31.670
lose income or their jobs or job
security or anything like that. So I'm
933
00:74:31.670 --> 00:74:35.270
not saying that that's a blessing.
What I'm the blessing part. Let's start
934
00:74:35.310 --> 00:74:39.100
with the curse. The curses that
people are losing their jobs and the people
935
00:74:39.140 --> 00:74:43.300
are losing income and people are,
in some cases losing benefits and things that
936
00:74:43.460 --> 00:74:46.979
they, you know, held dear
and worked hard for to maintain are going
937
00:74:47.060 --> 00:74:53.609
away because of something that they can't
control, and that sucks. Here's the
938
00:74:53.689 --> 00:75:00.090
blessing. Sports creatives and sports in
general have started to realize that they are
939
00:75:00.170 --> 00:75:06.010
not essential. And, and I
meet I mean that in the nicest way
940
00:75:06.090 --> 00:75:11.119
possible because I love sports man.
Sports have been my life, they've been
941
00:75:11.159 --> 00:75:15.319
a major part of your life,
they're all so many of my friends and
942
00:75:15.479 --> 00:75:18.479
people I would consider family. Sports
isn't a key, essential part of their
943
00:75:18.600 --> 00:75:26.989
lives. But in the grand scheme
of things, we don't need pro baseball
944
00:75:27.350 --> 00:75:32.789
like we need doctors and nurses and
teachers and ambulance drivers and all of the
945
00:75:33.109 --> 00:75:40.739
the essential folks that move our world
forward. We don't need sports like we
946
00:75:40.819 --> 00:75:45.060
need those people. So I think
what it's what's happened is it's given a
947
00:75:45.100 --> 00:75:48.659
lot of people the opportunity to take
a step back and realize. You know,
948
00:75:48.859 --> 00:75:51.810
I'll be the first to admit that
I was a cocky asshole and I
949
00:75:51.970 --> 00:75:57.130
thought I knew everything and I was
selfish and I thought that my work that
950
00:75:57.170 --> 00:76:00.529
I did at different parts of my
career were so important when they really weren't,
951
00:76:00.529 --> 00:76:04.760
all things considered right, maybe an
important and at a moment, or
952
00:76:04.800 --> 00:76:11.439
important to a sponsorship deal or important
to I don't know what adding value to
953
00:76:11.520 --> 00:76:16.880
a brand, but nothing is more
important than human life and we have been
954
00:76:16.960 --> 00:76:24.069
given an opportunity to identify that again. So maybe that blessing is now you've
955
00:76:24.109 --> 00:76:28.270
had you have the time to think
about what's really important to you and you
956
00:76:28.390 --> 00:76:31.710
have the time to think about how
the last however many years or months or
957
00:76:31.710 --> 00:76:36.819
whatever you've been in sports has affected
you personally, emotionally, physically, and
958
00:76:38.460 --> 00:76:42.659
you've been given the blessing of the
time to think about what else could be
959
00:76:43.060 --> 00:76:46.289
out there to make you happy.
So, like John said, like,
960
00:76:46.930 --> 00:76:51.170
even though I'm private on all my
social media accounts for my own personal reasons
961
00:76:51.369 --> 00:76:56.010
and for my own personal health,
if you message me or you add me
962
00:76:56.130 --> 00:77:01.119
or you find me on Linkedin,
I will happily hear your concerns and talk
963
00:77:01.279 --> 00:77:05.640
through your problems and your issues and
try and help you find whatever silver lining
964
00:77:05.680 --> 00:77:12.520
that's there in especially in this time
with covid but just know, I mean
965
00:77:13.800 --> 00:77:17.229
there's there's so much more out there
that is worth doing and is worth devoting
966
00:77:17.310 --> 00:77:24.390
your time to and your energy to
and your emotions to. That are essential.
967
00:77:25.789 --> 00:77:29.350
And you know, again, it's
hard to see that when you're on
968
00:77:29.390 --> 00:77:31.539
the inside. Man, it's really
is and it's easy to see it when
969
00:77:31.579 --> 00:77:35.180
you're on the outside. So it's
again I feel almost guilty saying these things
970
00:77:35.260 --> 00:77:42.380
and and drawing these kind of conclusions, but it's that's that's the reality for
971
00:77:42.460 --> 00:77:45.770
me now and I certainly you know, I want to be there to help
972
00:77:45.810 --> 00:77:49.050
folks who need to talk through think
through it and look for different opportunities and
973
00:77:50.850 --> 00:77:56.850
hopefully we can help provide some security
in thought at least in knowing that there's
974
00:77:56.890 --> 00:78:00.279
there's other stuff out there for you. There something that helps you get through
975
00:78:00.680 --> 00:78:09.760
your your dark period. As as
weird as it sounds, I've got a
976
00:78:09.840 --> 00:78:16.189
little twenty five pound cockapoo named Charlie
and you know, he we got him
977
00:78:17.949 --> 00:78:21.750
shortly after that really, really,
really the rough season and I was probably
978
00:78:21.909 --> 00:78:27.819
at my lowest while I was in
my career at that point, and the
979
00:78:28.100 --> 00:78:31.100
twenty or thirty minutes of just kind
of walking him and taking him out when
980
00:78:31.100 --> 00:78:38.180
I got home and disconnecting from the
struggles and the frustrations and everything that was
981
00:78:38.260 --> 00:78:44.970
feeling at the stadium helped level me
out, helped me transition into a place
982
00:78:45.010 --> 00:78:47.930
where I could sit at home and
not want to chug that half bottle of
983
00:78:48.010 --> 00:78:55.170
wine or not want to be shut
off from my community and my relationships and
984
00:78:55.289 --> 00:79:00.680
things like that. He inspired me
to feel good again and to care for
985
00:79:00.840 --> 00:79:04.199
something other than myself, which allowed
me to care for myself. So yeah,
986
00:79:04.239 --> 00:79:09.840
man, dogs, we don't deserve
them, that's for sure. He
987
00:79:10.109 --> 00:79:13.470
definitely brought that joy back in in
my life, at least at that point
988
00:79:13.470 --> 00:79:16.590
in time, and obviously inspired us
to get a second dog, who is
989
00:79:16.670 --> 00:79:20.710
also amazing. But you know,
Charlie's my guy, he's he I can
990
00:79:20.750 --> 00:79:24.899
look at them in the eye sometimes
and he knows that I'm not well,
991
00:79:25.100 --> 00:79:29.460
I'm not okay, and he does
something or see something that kind of pulls
992
00:79:29.500 --> 00:79:32.060
me out of it. So Charlie. Charlie was there for me for sure.
993
00:79:36.819 --> 00:79:41.529
If you can, if you could
take a few things away from that
994
00:79:41.770 --> 00:79:47.289
time in in your career that did
the audience listening today can can use as
995
00:79:47.329 --> 00:79:53.039
kind of something you could hold on
to and to learn from this experience.
996
00:79:54.159 --> 00:79:56.800
I'm sure you've put a lot of
thought into this. I know I have
997
00:79:56.920 --> 00:80:00.600
as well and did a lot of
things on my end to make sure that
998
00:80:00.880 --> 00:80:04.720
I wouldn't go through that again and
I wouldn't be the you know, the
999
00:80:05.359 --> 00:80:11.189
one thing my therapist told me that
that really stuck with me was, you
1000
00:80:11.270 --> 00:80:15.029
know, everybody's not going to like
you, and knowing you and I've been
1001
00:80:15.069 --> 00:80:17.229
your friend for a long time,
that's doesn't seem to always that that's not
1002
00:80:17.350 --> 00:80:19.949
necessarily any thing for you. That
was the thing for me. It's different
1003
00:80:19.989 --> 00:80:23.939
for everybody else. Right, you
told me that quite a bit of times.
1004
00:80:25.100 --> 00:80:29.140
But what are some things that the
young people in our industry can can
1005
00:80:29.220 --> 00:80:34.100
use to so they don't necessarily have
to hit these rock bottom spots here?
1006
00:80:34.180 --> 00:80:38.649
Yeah, I think I guess.
First and foremost is the fact that,
1007
00:80:38.930 --> 00:80:42.890
you know, we need more things
like this. We need an opportunity to
1008
00:80:42.930 --> 00:80:47.289
talk about the reality of the demands
of our roles in sports creative, and
1009
00:80:47.649 --> 00:80:53.199
I think that as young folks that
are hungry and I remember, you know,
1010
00:80:53.279 --> 00:80:56.760
my first four years in baseball,
I didn't care that I was at
1011
00:80:56.800 --> 00:81:00.000
the stadium for twelve, fourteen hours
a day. I didn't care that I
1012
00:81:00.039 --> 00:81:04.909
did it thirteen days in a row
for some homestands. But it's not realistic
1013
00:81:04.989 --> 00:81:10.430
and it's not normal and it's not
what is supposed to become your life.
1014
00:81:11.270 --> 00:81:15.430
So I think that there are are
parts of being a young, hungry professional,
1015
00:81:15.470 --> 00:81:18.220
no matter what you do, that
it's okay to bend a little bit.
1016
00:81:18.420 --> 00:81:24.340
But I think talking about the realities
as we're you know, the pressures
1017
00:81:24.460 --> 00:81:27.060
and the time that we have to
commit to it, we need to acknowledge
1018
00:81:27.060 --> 00:81:30.380
it and, you know, again, whether we're entry level, talking to
1019
00:81:30.539 --> 00:81:33.409
our managers or talking to our directors, if we're if we're leaders, if
1020
00:81:33.409 --> 00:81:38.449
we've been through it for a while, if we understand all of the demands
1021
00:81:38.489 --> 00:81:41.449
of the roles, we need to
also acknowledge that they're a real thing and
1022
00:81:41.489 --> 00:81:46.399
we need to normalize not being okay, because there are going to be points
1023
00:81:46.439 --> 00:81:49.199
in time where we're going to be
tired and broken down and we're going to
1024
00:81:49.760 --> 00:81:54.840
have have our own internal struggles and
just being able to talk about it openly
1025
00:81:54.920 --> 00:81:59.640
and honestly with our teams is is
so important that there were times where,
1026
00:81:59.760 --> 00:82:03.189
you know, like you mentioned,
I don't. I've never really worried about
1027
00:82:03.550 --> 00:82:08.789
if I've made somebody upset or uncomfortable
when I'm doing something that I believe in.
1028
00:82:09.109 --> 00:82:14.270
But I have brought these concerns to
my leaders. I brought these concerns
1029
00:82:14.310 --> 00:82:18.579
to human resources and you know,
there's there's the weight of well, this
1030
00:82:18.739 --> 00:82:21.100
is just what's expected of you.
You know, this is this is a
1031
00:82:21.180 --> 00:82:25.060
part of the deal. It's what
you signed up for. There's two hundred,
1032
00:82:25.100 --> 00:82:29.100
three hundred, four hundred other applicants
that want your job, so tough
1033
00:82:29.180 --> 00:82:32.569
shit. Well, that's that's not
necessarily okay and I think we all need
1034
00:82:32.609 --> 00:82:36.649
to take a half step back and
talk through these things. And you know,
1035
00:82:36.810 --> 00:82:44.439
I've had one bosson in my whole
career that offered me, I guess
1036
00:82:44.479 --> 00:82:48.000
like makeup weekend days like, and
it was stand they guy to work for
1037
00:82:48.239 --> 00:82:53.000
the Pistons in the Tigers. He
we would have a long week of events
1038
00:82:53.000 --> 00:82:55.560
or games or something coming up and
he would be the first one to come
1039
00:82:55.600 --> 00:82:58.520
over to the group of us and
say, okay, who wants Wednesday?
1040
00:82:58.670 --> 00:83:01.909
Who wants Thursday? Who wants Friday? He gave us weekends back because he
1041
00:83:01.949 --> 00:83:08.189
knew that we needed it and just
being able to have that conversation. I
1042
00:83:08.310 --> 00:83:12.510
appreciated getting one extra day, but
some days I didn't even take it,
1043
00:83:12.899 --> 00:83:16.140
but knowing that it was an option
and that it was okay to sometimes need
1044
00:83:16.220 --> 00:83:20.260
to take a day made all the
difference in the world. So again,
1045
00:83:20.300 --> 00:83:23.859
it's kind of step one, like
we got to be okay with talking about
1046
00:83:23.899 --> 00:83:28.649
this stuff and as leaders has as
veterans, we need to lead by example
1047
00:83:28.810 --> 00:83:31.649
and bring it up first and make
sure that we know that the people beneath
1048
00:83:31.649 --> 00:83:39.050
us feel safe and protected and that
they're allowed to feel burned down, because
1049
00:83:39.050 --> 00:83:45.079
it's a real thing. There's no
doubt there's a big there's a big problem
1050
00:83:45.119 --> 00:83:49.920
I see in and I can only
relate this to sports. Great, because
1051
00:83:49.920 --> 00:83:53.640
that's that's what I know, having
only been out of it for about a
1052
00:83:53.680 --> 00:83:59.029
year, but there's this must be
nice mentality that that we get, and
1053
00:83:59.109 --> 00:84:02.869
I think this is this is detrimental
to folks mental health right. So,
1054
00:84:03.470 --> 00:84:09.149
as part of the traveling team,
almost be nice you know, to take
1055
00:84:09.189 --> 00:84:13.619
a charter flight every weekend. It
must be nice to be able to go
1056
00:84:13.859 --> 00:84:17.220
and and and freely. That's because
you're a photographer and artist on the side,
1057
00:84:18.619 --> 00:84:23.460
and that's not healthy in any way. And I think that that brings
1058
00:84:23.500 --> 00:84:26.569
us, kind of brings us down, because it gets we get a guilt
1059
00:84:26.609 --> 00:84:30.649
complex. They're I'm sure you've dealt
with that before, just the fact that
1060
00:84:31.289 --> 00:84:35.850
must be nice to go on a
vacation. Yeah, like like we've lost
1061
00:84:35.970 --> 00:84:41.800
track of the importance of time to
ourselves, in time with our families.
1062
00:84:42.600 --> 00:84:45.920
I think that's a real, real
problem. I think right now we're feeling
1063
00:84:45.960 --> 00:84:48.880
it in Covid as well. Like, you know, you probably had had
1064
00:84:48.960 --> 00:84:53.390
of a have a baby to force
yourself to take some time, you know.
1065
00:84:53.590 --> 00:84:56.270
But you know, our lives are
very different right now, but we're
1066
00:84:56.270 --> 00:85:00.390
all kind of sitting at home thinking, well, why would I take vacation
1067
00:85:00.470 --> 00:85:01.989
and just sit at home? You
know, so I'm going to continue to
1068
00:85:02.029 --> 00:85:08.020
work, but it's not necessarily healthy. NOPE, Nope, you're completely right.
1069
00:85:08.140 --> 00:85:13.500
And let's and and let's start by
addressing flying on a team charter,
1070
00:85:14.220 --> 00:85:17.739
by passing TSA all, you know, staying in Nice hotels. Yes,
1071
00:85:17.899 --> 00:85:23.609
that is nice. It would be
nice for anybody, no matter what you're
1072
00:85:23.609 --> 00:85:26.609
doing. So let's just go ahead
and you know that's a given. If
1073
00:85:26.649 --> 00:85:30.489
you want to acknowledge that, great, but what's not nice is the sacrifices
1074
00:85:30.529 --> 00:85:36.720
that you have to make because you
are doing those things on a constant,
1075
00:85:36.720 --> 00:85:42.600
revolving door basis with very little breaks. You know, we work when you
1076
00:85:42.800 --> 00:85:44.560
we have to work the events,
when you have to work, nice to
1077
00:85:44.640 --> 00:85:47.159
weekends, but you're also expected to
work a normal forty hour work week.
1078
00:85:48.439 --> 00:85:54.590
You have nothing else you you don't
get a breather, you don't get time
1079
00:85:54.710 --> 00:85:58.430
to yourself, you don't get time
to your friends and family. So that
1080
00:85:58.789 --> 00:86:01.350
parts not nice. So we can
just cut that shit out right now.
1081
00:86:03.300 --> 00:86:05.979
But the guilt is a real thing, and I think you know, we
1082
00:86:06.020 --> 00:86:12.579
talked a little bit about the PTSD
of getting out of sports and transitioning to
1083
00:86:12.699 --> 00:86:17.689
something that is not that same schedule. You you start to feel guilty doing
1084
00:86:17.729 --> 00:86:23.090
anything but that grind because it's become
normal, and I think that goes back
1085
00:86:23.130 --> 00:86:25.689
to what I mentioned about how we
have to talk about these things and we
1086
00:86:25.770 --> 00:86:30.770
have to to denormalize those things.
That is even a words? Probably not,
1087
00:86:30.930 --> 00:86:32.319
but you know what I mean.
We have to we have to bring
1088
00:86:32.520 --> 00:86:35.319
things back to reality and acknowledge the
fact that the fact, you know,
1089
00:86:35.439 --> 00:86:40.880
our team just spent seventy eight hours
preparing for, you know, a home
1090
00:86:41.000 --> 00:86:44.880
game week or traveling on the road
or whatever it may be. Acknowledge the
1091
00:86:45.000 --> 00:86:47.750
reality of that. That's not normal. It might be a part of our
1092
00:86:47.789 --> 00:86:50.909
job, but we have to find
balance and we have to support balance.
1093
00:86:51.069 --> 00:86:57.270
And by offering your team grace days, we's calm grace days, which is
1094
00:86:57.350 --> 00:87:00.779
bullshit. It's not grace days,
it's I get the time back that I
1095
00:87:00.979 --> 00:87:04.579
need to have to recharge and bring
the best that I can to the next
1096
00:87:04.979 --> 00:87:09.500
period of time that we're, you
know, getting after it. So let's
1097
00:87:09.500 --> 00:87:13.100
stop calling that grace and let's just
make that reality. And it's okay.
1098
00:87:13.180 --> 00:87:17.770
K in the COVID era, we
all know that that normal business hours and
1099
00:87:17.930 --> 00:87:23.569
normal working conditions and offices and commuting
and traffic, all that stuff doesn't matter
1100
00:87:23.609 --> 00:87:29.569
anymore because most of us have been
able to continue our jobs professionally from the
1101
00:87:30.039 --> 00:87:33.239
quote unquote, comfort of our own
home at odd hours. We're all connected
1102
00:87:33.279 --> 00:87:36.680
all the time. We all have
most of us, as creatives, have
1103
00:87:38.319 --> 00:87:42.439
our computers or software, the things
that we need to get things done away
1104
00:87:42.479 --> 00:87:45.430
from the office of need bees.
So, like, let's let's be real
1105
00:87:45.470 --> 00:87:49.989
about that and let's give our teams
the opportunity to be their best in different
1106
00:87:50.029 --> 00:87:57.510
ways and let's evolved, because clearly
something's not working, because entry level people,
1107
00:87:57.909 --> 00:88:01.979
Middle Management, senior management folks are
breaking down. So, but,
1108
00:88:02.180 --> 00:88:06.899
you know, we talked about this
off the air or off the podcast,
1109
00:88:08.100 --> 00:88:10.779
but let's make sure to address the
fact that, like you and I,
1110
00:88:10.859 --> 00:88:14.810
are not in that business full time
anymore and we're not here to bash it
1111
00:88:14.970 --> 00:88:17.250
or we're not here to advocate that
everybody gets out. We're here to find
1112
00:88:17.369 --> 00:88:23.130
solutions and talk about the realities so
those who are still in it, or
1113
00:88:23.170 --> 00:88:26.050
if we have the opportunity to get
back in it at some point in time,
1114
00:88:26.449 --> 00:88:29.880
we can make it better. And
that's the whole reason why we're doing
1115
00:88:29.960 --> 00:88:32.439
this. Yeah, because because we're
not the only one, like, we're
1116
00:88:32.479 --> 00:88:35.680
not the only one who suffers from
this, like and because we are middle
1117
00:88:35.760 --> 00:88:42.189
management, you know, like everybody, everybody in the organization is dealing with
1118
00:88:42.390 --> 00:88:45.270
something from the top to the bottom, and I can assure you of that
1119
00:88:45.390 --> 00:88:50.710
based on conversations that I've had and
it's not easy. The pressures are immense
1120
00:88:51.829 --> 00:88:59.180
and and there's a misconception among our
friends and family that, oh, will
1121
00:88:59.539 --> 00:89:02.659
you have the offseason? That's great, you know, but like that they
1122
00:89:02.739 --> 00:89:08.140
running joke inside of sports is that
there is no offseason because they're truly isn't.
1123
00:89:08.140 --> 00:89:11.970
When you when you talk about the
offseason, I remember specifically after the
1124
00:89:12.090 --> 00:89:17.250
two thousand and seven deep into the
playoffs with the diamondbacks and and and losing
1125
00:89:17.449 --> 00:89:25.399
to the rockies and coming back to
work the next day and it was you.
1126
00:89:25.800 --> 00:89:30.119
You were literally right into pitching the
campaign for next season. There's no
1127
00:89:30.199 --> 00:89:33.960
time. Sales season starts at that
point and corporate partnerships is relying on you
1128
00:89:34.039 --> 00:89:39.149
as the creatives to have things ready. People don't understand. They think,
1129
00:89:39.189 --> 00:89:43.430
oh, we're off when the team's
off, and so breaking down some of
1130
00:89:43.430 --> 00:89:45.869
those misconceptions to say hey, you
know, this is this is how this
1131
00:89:46.029 --> 00:89:49.270
works. Family and friends, you
know we don't get to do all the
1132
00:89:49.390 --> 00:89:53.340
normal things. Yes, we may
not be traveling all the time, but
1133
00:89:53.619 --> 00:89:56.699
they are a lot of things that
we're doing because all of the offseason events,
1134
00:89:56.739 --> 00:90:00.420
they keep us super busy. We
talk about free agency and being on
1135
00:90:00.619 --> 00:90:06.020
call literally seven during NFL free agency
to have to go because of the social
1136
00:90:06.060 --> 00:90:11.689
media era, film the signings,
shoot the signings, make videos of the
1137
00:90:11.770 --> 00:90:15.170
signings and those sort of things.
So draft, how long does it take
1138
00:90:15.170 --> 00:90:17.489
to prepare us for the draft like
that? So there's a lot that goes
1139
00:90:17.529 --> 00:90:21.800
into it. That that that that
people who have not worked in sports maybe
1140
00:90:21.840 --> 00:90:27.680
don't understand. Those things contribute to, you know, the burnout that we
1141
00:90:27.760 --> 00:90:30.439
have. They're great fun part of
the job, but it's very intense and
1142
00:90:30.479 --> 00:90:34.319
it doesn't stop. Yeah, and
I mean you mentioned the you know,
1143
00:90:34.600 --> 00:90:38.390
all the different events and things that
we need to produce content for, but
1144
00:90:38.550 --> 00:90:41.909
we didn't we even talk about the
additional revenue streams of sports teams have that
1145
00:90:41.989 --> 00:90:46.789
are super important, which ask any
salesperson, whether it's tickets or or sponsorship.
1146
00:90:47.590 --> 00:90:54.859
Their offseason is their sales season and
their sales season becomes the creative services
1147
00:90:55.060 --> 00:90:58.300
portion of you know, we don't
like to talk about that, but we,
1148
00:90:59.100 --> 00:91:01.619
as creatives are there to create content, whether it's recapped, whether it's
1149
00:91:01.899 --> 00:91:05.409
sales pitches, whether it's all the
things that they need to do their jobs
1150
00:91:05.449 --> 00:91:10.409
effectively that they rely on us to
provide support for. So, you know,
1151
00:91:10.449 --> 00:91:12.970
not only are the content demands there, but all of a sudden somebody
1152
00:91:12.970 --> 00:91:17.529
else's season, their sales season,
becomes your season. So it's there's layers
1153
00:91:17.720 --> 00:91:24.760
of expectations and you know, as
we mentioned before, when the creative teams,
1154
00:91:24.880 --> 00:91:28.319
when each each, you know,
organization, built their own creative teams
1155
00:91:28.359 --> 00:91:31.399
to make assets for a variety of
different ways. Now you're no longer an
1156
00:91:31.439 --> 00:91:35.630
expense, you are an asset that
you can sell and you can build behind.
1157
00:91:35.789 --> 00:91:42.430
So the limit of them hands just
is is endless, because everybody needs
1158
00:91:42.430 --> 00:91:46.340
you for something and you know,
that's another thing that you know I mentioned.
1159
00:91:46.420 --> 00:91:49.779
We need to be able to talk
about the demands in the pressures and
1160
00:91:49.859 --> 00:91:55.460
normalize just the ability to express it
and talk about it and acknowledge it.
1161
00:91:55.819 --> 00:91:58.899
But also, as leaders, we
need to find ways to protect our team
1162
00:91:59.500 --> 00:92:06.970
and make sure that our bosses understand
what's realistic, what's doable, what you
1163
00:92:08.090 --> 00:92:13.010
know, explain, when we're asked
to do ten things on a weekend,
1164
00:92:15.090 --> 00:92:18.000
what we lose out on or what
the cost is if we have to try
1165
00:92:18.000 --> 00:92:21.640
and pull these things off. At
the dolphins in particular, you know we
1166
00:92:21.680 --> 00:92:26.520
would get asked to do things,
especially during the season, multiple events and
1167
00:92:26.680 --> 00:92:30.390
things on days that should have been
off days for the team or, you
1168
00:92:30.470 --> 00:92:33.270
know, like a Monday or or
a Saturday, and I would always ask
1169
00:92:33.550 --> 00:92:38.069
my hourly guys to do those things
first because I at least I knew they
1170
00:92:38.069 --> 00:92:41.029
were going to get paid for it. How many times did you ask your
1171
00:92:41.109 --> 00:92:45.899
salary guys for favors that like?
Why? What? Why would they want
1172
00:92:45.939 --> 00:92:47.300
to do if why would they want
to work those extra hours when they're not
1173
00:92:47.300 --> 00:92:51.300
getting anything extra for it? It's
just more time, more work, more,
1174
00:92:51.380 --> 00:92:54.899
ever more crap for them that they
have to do where they should be
1175
00:92:55.460 --> 00:92:58.890
able to catch a breather. So
there were instances where I was thankful that
1176
00:92:58.930 --> 00:93:00.810
I had hourly guys because at least
they'd be getting something for it. They
1177
00:93:00.850 --> 00:93:04.210
didn't want to do it either because
they had just come off working eighty hours
1178
00:93:04.210 --> 00:93:09.010
a week, but you know,
that was that was the consolation. Was
1179
00:93:09.050 --> 00:93:10.970
a will, at least I'm going
to get some more and pay for it.
1180
00:93:11.210 --> 00:93:15.520
So that's that's the other layer is
we need to be realistic instead expectations
1181
00:93:15.600 --> 00:93:17.319
and put up guard rails, not
only for ourselves, before our teams,
1182
00:93:17.399 --> 00:93:21.119
because we'll just keep getting used and
abused. And if the folks that are
1183
00:93:21.159 --> 00:93:28.229
asking for everything don't know. They're
just going to keep ask. It's not
1184
00:93:28.350 --> 00:93:30.949
necessarily their fault, you know,
they just they may not have been educated.
1185
00:93:31.149 --> 00:93:34.829
One thing we did do well was, you know, what's brief everyone
1186
00:93:35.750 --> 00:93:39.270
when we got the dolphins, that
we realize that this is having been in
1187
00:93:39.390 --> 00:93:42.539
sports now, for me, for, you know, fifteen years before I
1188
00:93:42.579 --> 00:93:45.659
got the dolphins, and in making
those changes and having serf come from an
1189
00:93:45.659 --> 00:93:49.180
agency background where it's very different,
right, and you know, in the
1190
00:93:49.220 --> 00:93:55.890
agency world you're paid in your paid
for the work in a lot of your
1191
00:93:55.930 --> 00:93:58.609
billing for hours and it's very different
when you come down. So there's a
1192
00:93:58.649 --> 00:94:01.090
lot of there's a lot of discussion
we had on how you change the model.
1193
00:94:02.329 --> 00:94:05.289
We haven't gotten to any I don't
think the sports world has gotten to
1194
00:94:05.289 --> 00:94:12.279
any final conclusions on what that looks
like. I don't know if they will.
1195
00:94:12.279 --> 00:94:15.199
I hope they will, but hopefully
at least we can start that conversation
1196
00:94:15.359 --> 00:94:20.920
to say hey, creative as a
special entity in game operations a special entity
1197
00:94:21.720 --> 00:94:28.510
and thus should be treated differently.
And you know, they're all each department
1198
00:94:28.630 --> 00:94:31.510
is special and each department has different
things that they you know, they need
1199
00:94:31.630 --> 00:94:38.029
to commit to and different extended hours
and you know whatever maybe, but the
1200
00:94:38.109 --> 00:94:42.420
fact that when you are a part
of a department that literally touches every other
1201
00:94:42.579 --> 00:94:45.340
part of the organization in some way, shape or form, you can't say
1202
00:94:45.420 --> 00:94:48.220
that about all the other departments.
You just you can't. I remember that
1203
00:94:48.300 --> 00:94:53.170
was one thing that when I first
got started in game operations with the dbacks.
1204
00:94:53.289 --> 00:94:56.409
I really love the fact that I
had meetings with corporate partnerships and,
1205
00:94:57.329 --> 00:95:01.170
you know, ticket sales and marketing
and executive and baseball. I mean every
1206
00:95:01.170 --> 00:95:04.649
we talked to everybody and we helped
do things, we help them achieve their
1207
00:95:04.729 --> 00:95:10.039
goals and objectives, and that was
thrilling to me because I got a very
1208
00:95:10.199 --> 00:95:14.079
broad understanding of the business of baseball
that I wouldn't have gotten if I was
1209
00:95:14.159 --> 00:95:17.319
in one of those departments that kind
of stayed in my silo. So it's
1210
00:95:17.359 --> 00:95:23.430
a blessing in that regard for sure. But it becomes a curse when everybody
1211
00:95:23.430 --> 00:95:27.430
else starts pushing you pass your the
limits of yourself on your team and there
1212
00:95:27.470 --> 00:95:30.989
are no guard rails and there is
nobody there to say I'm sorry, that
1213
00:95:30.109 --> 00:95:32.670
can't happen, or we don't we
don't have the bandwidth to do it.
1214
00:95:32.710 --> 00:95:35.619
It was. You know, we
got to a point where we just figure
1215
00:95:35.619 --> 00:95:41.060
it out, find a freelancer,
find somebody else, pull somebody off of
1216
00:95:41.180 --> 00:95:44.180
this split, you know, grab
a camera yourself, whatever it may be.
1217
00:95:45.180 --> 00:95:48.420
And you know, no, didn't
become an option. And I think
1218
00:95:48.899 --> 00:95:55.329
the sooner that we we are more
comfortable with the reality of the expectations,
1219
00:95:55.810 --> 00:95:59.890
the sooner we're going to get a
closer to a healthy work environment for everybody
1220
00:95:59.930 --> 00:96:02.289
and it. We're not there yet. We have al ways to go and
1221
00:96:02.649 --> 00:96:05.520
we can do that. We can
get there, but we got to get
1222
00:96:05.560 --> 00:96:10.640
real and the conversations need to start
happening now. It's right. It's right.
1223
00:96:12.720 --> 00:96:15.880
Last question here. If you could
go back and talk to yourself at
1224
00:96:15.920 --> 00:96:20.750
any plan in time during your Lovin
your journey, what would you tell the
1225
00:96:20.869 --> 00:96:28.829
younger will that you've learned from all
of this? That's tough question. I
1226
00:96:29.029 --> 00:96:33.699
want to say like kneejerk reaction is
to say like everything's going to be okay,
1227
00:96:34.140 --> 00:96:38.380
but I think that that would be
taking it a step or two too
1228
00:96:38.460 --> 00:96:43.220
far. I think I need to
say this shit doesn't matter that much.
1229
00:96:44.539 --> 00:96:49.250
It's it's not that big a deal, it's not that serious. You know,
1230
00:96:49.689 --> 00:96:54.210
that's the kind of summarizes the you're
not as great as you think you
1231
00:96:54.369 --> 00:96:57.170
are, the work that you're doing
is not as important as you think it
1232
00:96:57.289 --> 00:97:01.119
is. The deadline that has been
imposed upon you is not as crucial as
1233
00:97:01.199 --> 00:97:05.800
it's it's been given to you and
you know that's I can only control my
1234
00:97:05.840 --> 00:97:10.880
own thoughts and emotions. I can't
I can't make reality for other people.
1235
00:97:11.399 --> 00:97:16.189
But I think that sports in general, and sports creative particularly, would be
1236
00:97:16.229 --> 00:97:23.069
a much healthier place if we all
just fucking relaxed a little bit and didn't
1237
00:97:23.390 --> 00:97:30.460
put so much pressure on ourselves or
our staff or our organizations. People have
1238
00:97:30.579 --> 00:97:32.220
a job to do, people were
hired to do the things that they were
1239
00:97:32.260 --> 00:97:36.220
supposed to do, but at no
point in time should that ever take pressing
1240
00:97:36.300 --> 00:97:42.300
over your own physical, emotional and
mental health. So if we would all
1241
00:97:42.380 --> 00:97:45.930
just chill the fuck out a little
bit, I think things would have things
1242
00:97:45.970 --> 00:97:49.090
would go a lot better and we
would not have to have podcasts about mental
1243
00:97:49.130 --> 00:97:55.090
health and sports and we would not
have to have zoom meetings with sixty plus
1244
00:97:55.210 --> 00:98:00.199
people pouring their hearts out about how
broken they are. You know, this
1245
00:98:00.359 --> 00:98:03.560
isn't a John Willie problem or a
will post him as problem or you know,
1246
00:98:03.640 --> 00:98:05.840
there's not like a small handful of
us that are dealing with this.
1247
00:98:05.960 --> 00:98:11.479
This is an industry problem and and
I think that if I could have allowed
1248
00:98:11.560 --> 00:98:15.189
myself to just relax a little bit, it may never have gone to the
1249
00:98:15.229 --> 00:98:18.069
point that it got to. Well
said, well said. Thank you,
1250
00:98:18.149 --> 00:98:21.909
my friend. I appreciate to coming
and pouring your heart out for us.
1251
00:98:23.510 --> 00:98:27.029
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. I love you, man, and
1252
00:98:27.699 --> 00:98:30.140
I'm still thrilled that you're doing this, because it's something that needs to happen,
1253
00:98:30.340 --> 00:98:34.579
even if individuals just have somebody else
to relate to and know that like
1254
00:98:35.899 --> 00:98:41.180
and somebody who you know who spent
eleven years in the business, who was
1255
00:98:41.420 --> 00:98:45.369
directing sign and a football game,
is able to break down and pass out
1256
00:98:45.489 --> 00:98:48.250
in his chair because things got that
bad. You know, if I have
1257
00:98:48.289 --> 00:98:54.970
a rough day like I'm going to
be okay too. So we appreciate you
1258
00:98:55.130 --> 00:99:00.760
for doing this and if I can, you know, give anybody context or
1259
00:99:00.000 --> 00:99:03.279
you just need somebody to listen to, please don't has day to reach out.
1260
00:99:04.560 --> 00:99:16.510
Awesome, it's buddy. Hey,
thanks for sticking around until the end
1261
00:99:16.550 --> 00:99:20.710
here. If you enjoyed this podcast
in want to leave a review and could
1262
00:99:20.710 --> 00:99:29.619
do me a huge favor please visit
rate this podcastcom slash creative af to leave
1263
00:99:29.659 --> 00:99:31.739
a quick note and, as always, if you want to hit me up
1264
00:99:31.779 --> 00:99:38.930
on twitter, it's at creative af
or at Jo n Willey, and you
1265
00:99:39.010 --> 00:99:44.210
can also find me on instagram at
Willie art and at Jay Willie photo.
1266
00:99:45.090 --> 00:99:48.329
I really appreciate you all and please
take care of yourself and we'll see you
1267
00:99:48.529 --> 00:99:54.159
Friday for some meditation in next week
with our guests Kyle Joesus, who was
1268
00:99:54.239 --> 00:99:58.239
actually one of my interns when I
was at the dbacks and then went on
1269
00:99:58.359 --> 00:100:01.840
to a really fun stint with the
San Francisco Forty niners and really helped build
1270
00:100:01.880 --> 00:100:06.079
their rand moving into the new stadium, but at the same time he really
1271
00:100:06.189 --> 00:100:13.390
struggled his entire life with crippling depression
and anxiety. We're going to dive in
1272
00:100:13.510 --> 00:100:15.550
with Kyle next week, but for
now, have a great rest of the
1273
00:100:15.630 --> 00:100:17.989
week and a great weekend and we'll
talk soon.
1
00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.759
Everybody. Johnny here. Before we
dive into this podcast, I just wanted
2
00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:08.109
to let you know that it's being
developed as a side project for my main
3
00:00:08.230 --> 00:00:12.269
work, which is now heading up
content and strategy for an early stage media
4
00:00:12.310 --> 00:00:17.390
startup called better, spelled, betr. We're a digital media company that creates
5
00:00:17.429 --> 00:00:22.179
and curates uplifting stories to help people
move forward in life with hope, confidence
6
00:00:22.219 --> 00:00:27.739
and acceptance. We offer written,
video and audio content spending categories such as
7
00:00:27.739 --> 00:00:31.420
wellness, mental health, humanity and
more. Is really something for everyone at
8
00:00:31.460 --> 00:00:34.780
better, whether you need to pick
me up content, personal stories about overcoming
9
00:00:34.820 --> 00:00:38.649
life and mental health challenges, story
that gives you the push to start that
10
00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:42.689
business you've always dreamed of, or
just inspiration on bettering yourself as a human.
11
00:00:43.770 --> 00:00:47.729
To simplify its content that makes you
feel better and dream of a more
12
00:00:47.810 --> 00:00:52.079
positive world around you. So check
out better and find your new favorite video
13
00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:56.200
series, podcast or written column.
Just go to live bettercom l I ve
14
00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:02.240
betrcom or, if you like watching
videos on Youtube, subscribe to better on
15
00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:07.750
youtubecom slash betr media and, lastly, make sure you follow us on instagram
16
00:01:07.750 --> 00:01:11.790
and twitter at Betr for some daily
inspiration. Nats and feel good content to
17
00:01:11.909 --> 00:01:30.060
your social media feeds, because who
doesn't need that right now? And as
18
00:01:30.379 --> 00:01:33.530
my world starts crashing down on me. You know, it's scene in jaws
19
00:01:33.569 --> 00:01:36.370
where they do the camera trick where, like they zoom out but it stays
20
00:01:36.489 --> 00:01:40.530
on the guy's face, like I
felt like that was happening, like my
21
00:01:41.170 --> 00:01:48.640
everything went numb and silent and about
ten seconds later I wake up on my
22
00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.120
console in a complete cold sweat.
I had passed out. That moment was
23
00:01:53.239 --> 00:02:15.379
where I realized I've pushed myself way
too far and I'm not well. Hey
24
00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:22.099
Everyone, I'm John William. This
is creative AF podcast that dives smack DAB
25
00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:27.740
into the messy intersection of creativity and
mental health, sharing your stories of the
26
00:02:27.819 --> 00:02:35.370
highest highs and the lowest lows and
on the show today. When will postumus
27
00:02:35.530 --> 00:02:38.969
was deep into his eleven year tender
as one of the leading live event and
28
00:02:38.050 --> 00:02:44.250
video producers in the country in professional
and collegiate sports, he never thought one
29
00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.560
some timing miss step in a commercial
break of an NFL game would lead him
30
00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:55.240
to reevaluate the entire amazing career he
had built up to that point. Now,
31
00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:59.509
before we get to the show,
I have to clarify again, this
32
00:02:59.710 --> 00:03:04.389
podcast is not meant to bash or
be a little anyone or any organization that
33
00:03:04.509 --> 00:03:07.669
myself or any of the guests on
the show may have worked with or at
34
00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:10.750
before. It's meant to be an
open, real and raw dialog about the
35
00:03:10.909 --> 00:03:15.740
ups and the downs of being a
creative in today's world and how, by
36
00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:19.219
taking these things out in the open, we can really begin to push the
37
00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:23.860
change in the hustle and grind culture
that is so desperately needed to really keep
38
00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:35.090
us sane and balanced. The sports
industry is one of the most exciting and
39
00:03:35.169 --> 00:03:38.889
fulfilling careers that anyone could have,
but this business is so much more than
40
00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:44.240
the eighteen NFL Games put on by
a team during the year or the one
41
00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.360
hundred and eighty two mld games in
a season. In order to fill these
42
00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.080
stadiums with people, make them look
beautiful for an entire season, day in
43
00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:58.669
and day out, entertains seventyzero people
for every second of play is an occurring
44
00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:02.990
and push the twenty four seven social
media content machine to really be the best
45
00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:08.949
in all of sports. It takes
a team of people working, sometimes nonstop,
46
00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:13.180
to make this happen. Behind the
scenes of what most people don't see
47
00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:16.939
are usually small teams of young,
creative spending hours and hours on end in
48
00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:21.620
their offices, either at the stadium
or to practice facility, prepping for months
49
00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:28.610
and sometimes years for singular events that
can be over in four hours but that
50
00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:33.490
can leave legacies and memories for families
that can really last a lifetime. Well
51
00:04:33.529 --> 00:04:36.610
Post you, Mrs No stranger to
this life from a young age. He
52
00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:41.040
grew up in a family that was
very deep into the sports world themselves and,
53
00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:45.079
as fate would have it, will
would eventually find himself in a dream
54
00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:49.319
job that he never really knew existed. Man, this is this goes all
55
00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:54.670
the way back to like freshman year
of high school. I can even before
56
00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:58.110
that was let's take us that back. So my brother is eleven years older
57
00:04:58.149 --> 00:05:00.870
than me. So when he was
in high school, you know, I
58
00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:05.790
was five six years old and kind
of going to watch him play his high
59
00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:10.939
school sports. He was a multi
sport athlete and he played a professional baseball
60
00:05:11.060 --> 00:05:15.339
but when he was in high school
that the things that attracted me to sports
61
00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:18.819
was going to watch him played basketball
and at the high school that he went
62
00:05:18.860 --> 00:05:24.370
to and I eventually went to,
there was a guy named Tom Murray who
63
00:05:24.930 --> 00:05:30.050
was a bit of a showman and
he kind of brought entertainment to high school
64
00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:34.569
basketball and Portage Michigan, where I
grew up, and he would, you
65
00:05:34.649 --> 00:05:39.000
know, he would be the DJ, he would be the PA announcer,
66
00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:43.319
he would wear a Tuxedo and introduce
the teams, he would hire other students
67
00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.000
to use spotlights and, you know, he made a spectacle out of these
68
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.990
kind of Smalltown High School Basketball Games
and I remember being a little kid going
69
00:05:50.069 --> 00:05:53.750
to watch those games and like that, that Intros, the player Intros,
70
00:05:53.829 --> 00:05:59.629
was the coolest part and I was
just so enamored with what he was able
71
00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:03.339
to bring to a high school basketball
experience a little kids. So he ended
72
00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:10.019
up going to Arizona State University for
broadcasting and through, you know, family
73
00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:13.779
friends and knowing his story, I
kind of aspired to me and I'd really
74
00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:16.740
like to do something similar someday.
So when I got to high school that
75
00:06:16.939 --> 00:06:19.930
had all gone away. Nobody carried
the torch. So from you know,
76
00:06:20.009 --> 00:06:24.329
when I was eleven years younger than
my brother up until when I got there,
77
00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:27.970
that had all stopped. And so
I remember meeting with the Athletic Director
78
00:06:28.009 --> 00:06:30.689
and saying you know, this all
used to happen when my brother played.
79
00:06:30.050 --> 00:06:34.040
There any reason why we can't do
that now? So the athletic director actually
80
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:40.199
hired me as a freshman to bring
that back and I was the pay announcer,
81
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.319
I was the DJ. I had
another friend of mine that was a
82
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.879
student that I had to eventually teach
him how to do things so I could
83
00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.910
do more. I invested in the
right equipment so we had the right sound
84
00:06:50.910 --> 00:06:55.509
system and basically we brought that level
of entertainment back to my high school.
85
00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:00.389
So, you know, it was
all the way to the point where,
86
00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:03.899
like, I'd roam with the team
and we not only did men's basketball,
87
00:07:03.939 --> 00:07:08.819
we do women's basketball. We did
gymnastics, we did cheer, all of
88
00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:12.579
the the indoor sports that we could
do a show for we ended up putting
89
00:07:12.579 --> 00:07:15.970
on a show. So I was
kind of doing game entertainment before I even
90
00:07:15.970 --> 00:07:19.250
knew it was a thing you could
do professionally. ENDED UP COMING OUT TO
91
00:07:19.290 --> 00:07:26.529
ASU and after my first semester and
at the chronkite school, I got involved
92
00:07:26.529 --> 00:07:30.439
with the student radio station. Ended
up having my own Asu baseball radio show.
93
00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.160
I was in line to be the
new sports director at the student radio
94
00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:40.920
station and I was sent an e
mail about an internship opportunity with the diamondbacks.
95
00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.110
There was there was two positions that
they were kind of recruiting asu students
96
00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:48.790
for. One was game operations,
which I didn't even know what that meant,
97
00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:55.709
and then dbtv, which was something
that was brand new at the diamondbacks.
98
00:07:55.750 --> 00:07:59.860
They just put in a brand new
video board. They had just invested
99
00:07:59.899 --> 00:08:05.139
in this multimillion dollar, you know, camera equipment and control room and they
100
00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:09.019
basically had this amazing hd you can
hear my son crying in the background.
101
00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:16.930
I have a eleven day old son
who's practicing as national singing right now.
102
00:08:18.370 --> 00:08:22.529
anyways, going back to the internship
opportunity, so, you know, brand
103
00:08:22.529 --> 00:08:26.449
new video board, brand new control
room, all hd cameras, everything that
104
00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:31.480
you'd want to play with if you
were interested in sports broadcasting. And ended
105
00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.559
up getting the internship, and it
was funny enough. I they hired me
106
00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.519
as a game ops intern because I
had good personality, they've told me,
107
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.509
and I was easy to speak with
and I was easy to communicate with and
108
00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:48.149
I kind of had an extroverted personality
that they thought would translate well to game
109
00:08:48.230 --> 00:08:52.950
operation. So I ended up being
you know, I spent the that summer
110
00:08:52.990 --> 00:08:56.539
of two thousand and eight as an
intern with in game operations. It essentially
111
00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.100
was doing kind of what I was
doing back in high school. You know,
112
00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:03.019
I was helping with national anthem singers, I was helping with the in
113
00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:07.460
game promotions, I was helping with, you know, all of the things
114
00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:11.570
that happened in and around the game, except for the game itself, and
115
00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:16.529
it just felt like I had arrived. You know, this is what I've
116
00:09:16.610 --> 00:09:20.490
been aspiring to do and I kind
of fell into it through, you know,
117
00:09:20.610 --> 00:09:24.279
different opportunities and channels and it you
know, I played college baseball,
118
00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.320
I guess I should imagine that too, for for two years at Western Michian
119
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.279
University before I ended up transferring and
going to Asu. And my brother,
120
00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.279
like I said, he was a
Semipro ball player. So baseball was always
121
00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.830
in my blood and something that was
really important to my family and I always
122
00:09:37.830 --> 00:09:43.149
joking my brother. He played up
to AAA. He had six or seven
123
00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:46.470
seasons in the my leagues and the
Seattle Mariners Organization got up to AAA play
124
00:09:46.590 --> 00:09:50.750
one exhibition game with the teams.
It didn't really count, and I remember
125
00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:52.259
my first opening day with the diamondbacks. I called him. I was like
126
00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:56.059
man, I made it to the
big leagues a lot faster than you did.
127
00:09:56.659 --> 00:10:01.340
Took so yeah, that was that's
the Genesis of sports. It was
128
00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.299
way, way, way earlier and
you know, looking back on it now,
129
00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:07.090
it's like, man, I really
wanted to do this since I was
130
00:10:07.169 --> 00:10:16.490
like five or six years old.
Your family has a love of sports.
131
00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.720
What did they what do they think
when you got the job with the diamondbacks?
132
00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:26.679
I mean, my dad has never
liked outwardly set it, but I
133
00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.279
know how absolutely proud he was of
the fact that I was able to to
134
00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.990
you know, they sent me away
to school and there's kind of the fear
135
00:10:35.029 --> 00:10:39.070
of the unknown there and within one
semester I had gotten an internship with the
136
00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.789
professional sports team and Major League Baseball
team, and he was so proud of
137
00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.830
that. You know, again,
he never directly said it, but in
138
00:10:46.149 --> 00:10:52.220
you know, through back channels and
text messaging and things he said other people,
139
00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:54.139
I know that he was super,
super proud that I was able to
140
00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:58.419
kind of get there. And then
I remember they came down to visit sometime
141
00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:03.580
early in the spring and there was
a postgame concert actually that we were playing
142
00:11:03.620 --> 00:11:05.049
against the Tigers. So growing up
in Michigan, you know we're always tigers
143
00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:09.049
fans. We had interleague series against
the Tigers and there was a postgame concert.
144
00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:13.370
I want to say it was like
trace Adkins, maybe. Yeah.
145
00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:16.289
So my parents were in town for
that series and and you know, I'm
146
00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:20.559
an intern, but I still was
able to grab them from their seats escort
147
00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.679
them down to the field. Were
watching treys Adkins perform on the field from
148
00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.080
the visitors dug out where the Tigers
were actually brandon inge, who's the Tigers
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player, and a couple of the
other two tigers were in the dugout with
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us and in I could just you
could see on his face that he was
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so damn proud that his, you
know, twenty year old kid was was
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a part of this, a part
of, you know, something that he
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was a fan of his whole life
and obviously we spent a lot of time
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around so it that was certainly cool
to to just make them proud and see
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that in his eyes is very cool. I remember, for a little context
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for everybody, I was working there
at the same time when you were there.
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I didn't really know you well when
you were an intern, but that
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would change quickly. I remember my
first feeling walking into the stadium for my
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first game and saying holy cow.
You know, tell me about what went
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through your head. What was the
conversation you played amongst yourself the first time
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you walked in and said this is
happening? I remember that first game.
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One of my duties as an intern
was to go into the clubhouse predame and
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ask a not high profile player if
they would catch the ceremonial first pitch.
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And opening day that was easier because
usually was a celebrity that threw out the
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first pitch. But no any normal
you know, midweek, Wednesday, getaway
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day or something. You've got,
you know, smoto from the sponsorship that
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had the opportunity to throw out the
first pitch. NOPE, no player wants
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to go do that. You know, it's nice as they are like they
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have a job to do and I
don't want to be asked to go beat
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the guy that catches the first pitch, but I was asked to ask somebody
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to catch the first pitch, so
I'm kind of I was. I don't
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even go into the clubhouse before and
I wandered into the DBACKS clubhouse and I'm
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supposed to ask, you know,
some half dressed major league baseball player,
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without even meeting him before, if
you would do this thing. And I
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remember I walked up the clubhouse steps
and I turned the corner and I physically
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and literally ran into Randy Johnson,
who if for me as a kid who
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grew up watching my brother in the
Mariners Organization, like, Oh my God,
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it's the big unit, what holy
and he's so intimidating, he's huge
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and he's mean looking and I,
sorry, sorry, Mr Johnson, kept
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walking. I end up getting the
Ceremonial First Pitch Catcher, but it was
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like the nerves and the like,
I'm not supposed to be here type feeling
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never really settled until maybe like the
second or third aning of the game.
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We kind of things got going,
but that that whole first season and just
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the excitement of being around professional sports
and something that seems so unattainable, that
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didn't go away and honestly it didn't
really go away. Ever, it's always
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still kind of there. You get
these butterflies and you get the emotions that
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you tie into the performance in the
field and everything like that doesn't go away.
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The drinaline still there. I you
know, we have been out of
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this now for two years, almost
two years now, and I've been doing
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some freelancing for the Arizona coyotes out
here and I've been directing shows for them,
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and I remember texting my wife after
your pregame had finished. I'm like,
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man, I still get that like
holy Shit feeling during pregame where you're
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doing the show and you got to
hit the button to make sure that the
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open video runs the right time and
it's like that adrenaline of you could screw
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this up and the high of kind
of doing it live, it never ever
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goes away. Did you ever screw
it up? Oh yeah, absolutely.
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I mean it's especially in baseball like
we did. I had five seasons of
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Major League Baseball and you know,
do some quick math on that. That's
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there's a whole lot of opportunities to
screw something up. Was this your dream
200
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job? So I thought that I
wanted to be a radio play byplay broadcaster
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like that's that's why I thought my
dream job was going to be. And
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then when I got to I started
with the internship with the diamondbacks and start
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to realize that every single team has
their own broadcast. You Know Company,
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essentially their own own production company in
House to put on their shows. It's
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that's started to become my dream job, just being involved in the organization,
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being a part of a group of
people. Like if I was just calling
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baseball games for ESPN, you know, you suddenly baseball money, baseball.
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Obviously they would be an amazing opportunity
and an amazing career, but I wouldn't
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be able to really tie my affinity
in my love for one organization. You
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know, I would be working for
ESPN and calling games for everybody. So
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really you love the game and that's
why you do it. But I didn't
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realize how much the organization became my
family, especially moving away from Michigan and
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moving arizone on you know, I
knew a couple of kids I went to
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high school with that we're also sun
devils, but I mean I became a
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man, I kind of grew into
an adult with all of these other young
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professionals that we spent hours and hours
and hours with. So I think that
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all of the friendships, and I'm
obviously you know you and I and everything
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that we've become, that came from
my dream job, right like it,
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that that developed into something much more
than just a job. Yeah, but
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in this is the real important part, is we as we got into two
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thousand and eleven, this was quite
a year for us. We were hosting
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an Allstar game. We made it
pretty deep into the playoffs. You had
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a really critical role in its success
for a multitude of reasons which we don't
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need to get into necessarily. Here
you were. You were on top of
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the world at that point. Tell
me, you know, tell me what
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happened next. You know, things
change and in roles change. In you
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made a decision to move on.
Give us a little insight into that.
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Yeah, that was my fourth year
with the team. First Year I was
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an intern. Second year I was
hired as a supervisor of game operations and
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and content, or something something like
that. And I guess the preface this.
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You know, in two thousand and
eight we weren't making digital content.
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We were making marketing materials. We
were doing commercials, radio spots, TV
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spots and in game content and that
was it. We and part of that
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was because Major League baseball advanced media
own the rights to all of the team's
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digital assets. So if we wanted
to produce a piece of content to go
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on our facebook page or our twitter
account or the website. We had to
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jump through a multitude of hoops to
get that stuff published. So there really
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wasn't a much motivation for us to
make stuff for for digital consumption because the
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hoops to jump through were so difficult. It would be like a week to
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ten days before we could get something
posted. So again, the emphasis was
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really only on on in game production
and you know the couple of commercials that
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we would create throughout the season.
But in two thousand and eleven things changed
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because not only were doing game production
but you know, the the dbacks move
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their spring training operations to Scottsdale.
So you know, not only were we
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were responsible for the launch of a
brand new spring facility and the all of
246
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the Spring Training Games that were played
there. About that backs that that was
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our preseason. So where we spend
that time preparing for the regular season?
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That was gone because we spent it
all helping launch this brand new, amazing
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Spring Training Facility, which I don't
want to, you know, Pooh Pooh
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that because it was an amazing experience. It was incredible to be able to
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be a part of that state of
the art. It's still probably the best
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spring training facility in Major League Baseball, but it was a shitload of work
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and it was it was time,
crucial time, that we needed to mentally
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prepare for the year that we were
about to have. So, you know,
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we kind of started drained. We
had already burnt out twenty percent of
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our our energy saves on that Spring
Training Endeavor. Season Starts, team starts
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playing really well, and also we're
hosting the Allstar game that year, so
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not only is there additional responsibilities for, you know, the actual weekend of
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the game itself, but the promotion
for it and all the other things I
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go involved in it. So we
had this other thing that probably took another
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twenty percent of our energy stores.
And then the team made the playoffs that
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year. So, you know,
all the things that you're working for throughout
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the year you are excited for,
and that's why we do what we do
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in sports, so we can,
you know, help the team get to
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the ultimate prize, and that's a
championship. But by the time we got
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to the playoffs, I was so
mentally and emotionally and physically drained from that
267
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year that I just needed a break. I needed something different and the I
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I guess I didn't even really know
her, but through the industry, through
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being involved in, you know,
game entertainment for four years, a woman
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named Aaron Sequira, who was the
director of game entertainment for the Detroit Red
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Wings, reached out to me about
a job opportunity. She knew I was
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from Michigan, she knew that I
was a, you know, a young
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creative that was doing some good things
within the industry, and she offered me
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an opportunity to come home. And
you know, that kind of lined up
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with my feelings of needing something different, needing a break, and I love,
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man, I love my four years
the diamondbacks and I've to will talk
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more about this as we go but
I've been chasing the feeling of family that
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we had there ever since I left, and that's part of the reason why
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I've been a bit of a rolling
stone throughout this industry, because I've been
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dying to get that feeling of a
family and community and empathy and caring for
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one another, things that I've not
experienced other organizations since then. But regardless,
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you know, I was four years
into into my career and I was
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making very little money, spending hours
and hours and hours every single summer at
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the ballpark and I needed something different, even if it was a little bit
285
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of a pay bump and a change
of pay. So I went right from
286
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that crazy year. I mean we've
finished. We so we lose in the
287
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wild card, the fifth game of
the wild card to the Milwaukee brewers that
288
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year, and I'm literally packing up
my my truck, getting ready to move
289
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back to Michigan and going right into
another season. So I'm I'm already at
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you know, negative energy stores,
going right into a new season, new
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city, new team, new environment, and that kind of was the I
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now, thinking about it and talking
through it, I can kind of say
293
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that was the beginning of my mental
than physical decline throughout sports, because I
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just I never got that break.
So you were held at that point.
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Oh Man, let's do the math
on that. I guess I would have
296
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been twenty two. You're twenty two
years old. You've been in sports for
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nearly five years and your burnout and
you're heading to the pinnacle for you right
298
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this is hockey, this is the
red wings, this is your hometown team.
299
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Tell me about was there a different
energy when you went in there?
300
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I got there and I went from
this full HD control room, amazing,
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you know chase field environment, to
the switcher in the control room that was
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00:23:36.049 --> 00:23:40.329
hanging above on the fifth floor at
Joe Louis Arena really looked like there should
303
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be, you know, a guy
smoking a cigarette leading over it, orange
304
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and yellow and red buttons, all
analog, you know, the little CCTV
305
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.200
monitors that will six inch monitors.
Was all the monitors they had. There
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00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.869
were there was no hd, there
was no screens, and then the the
307
00:23:56.910 --> 00:24:00.029
organization didn't even own any of the
equipment. They've been renting it from a
308
00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:04.150
local company for years and years and
years. So it was very different.
309
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I kind of although I was I
was working for a team that had a
310
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winning tradition history. I took like
fifteen years steps back in the digital content
311
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creation realm. But silver lining at
that is I got to pay the way
312
00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:29.569
and it was myself and one other
social media the social media manager at that
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time, who was also kind of
forward thinking. We pushed for something new
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and that was episodic content that people
could rely on and know that was going
315
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.119
to be there, and we basically
made digital content programming before. It was
316
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.359
a thing for sports teams and it
worked it. We drove like a million
317
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.230
and a half dollars in sponsorship avenue
within that first year that I was there.
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That wasn't there before. It's on
our viewership and it was a grind
319
00:24:56.509 --> 00:25:00.589
and it sucked. And I you
know the Joe for anybody who's been to
320
00:25:00.589 --> 00:25:03.630
Joe Louis Arena knows how amazing it
is on Game Day, but a place
321
00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:07.299
to go every single day at work, it was awful. There's there's two
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00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:11.940
window those that are about the size
of a for inge by fourign square on
323
00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:18.420
two doors in that building and that's
it was like a concrete prison. What
324
00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:22.049
was your office like there? Yeah, so me and Aaron shared we had
325
00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:27.089
two smaller auxiliary offices on the fifth
floor, which was suspended above the ice
326
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and there was the control room.
was there, but it was we were
327
00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:33.289
isolated. It was she was on
one side of the room, I was
328
00:25:33.369 --> 00:25:37.559
on the other side of the room. We had very little interaction with anybody
329
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:40.920
else within the organization unless we had
meetings, but to do that we would
330
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:45.680
have to go either to another building
or down to the ground floor. It
331
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.640
was it was gross, it was
bad. We basically walked through the dark
332
00:25:49.789 --> 00:25:53.670
to get to that center area hanging
above the ice, and I can tell
333
00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:56.829
you the times that I saw river
rats running around up there, where are
334
00:25:56.910 --> 00:26:11.019
more than the fingers I have on
my hands, that's for sure. So
335
00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:18.339
you're coming from this amazing experience when
you left, maybe exhausted, but on
336
00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:22.849
a pretty high note, after getting
an Allstar Ring at the age of twenty
337
00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:29.490
two and and going deep into the
playoffs at that point, working at with
338
00:26:29.569 --> 00:26:34.039
some of the best facilities that were
in baseball really at that point. And
339
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:41.160
then you stayed at the red wings. For for how long? So at
340
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:47.349
the wings for less than a year
and it was I will say that I
341
00:26:47.549 --> 00:26:52.549
was open to other opportunities. I
you know I was. I was ready
342
00:26:52.589 --> 00:26:56.950
to try something different because this wasn't
what I was expecting. You know,
343
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I had reached back out to friends
at the D backs, I reach back
344
00:27:00.430 --> 00:27:03.940
out to my leadership there to see, if you know, if it made
345
00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:07.140
sense for me to potentially come back
there. I had opportunities at University of
346
00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:11.180
Michigan, who, you know,
have great athletics facilities and things like that.
347
00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:15.970
But really what kick started my move
away from the Red Wings was the
348
00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:22.289
two thousand and twelve NHL lockout we
the lockout happened and we weren't allowed to
349
00:27:22.329 --> 00:27:26.210
do anything with the pro players.
We could work with anybody that had a
350
00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:30.480
two way contract or a semipro contract, but the pro players were off limits
351
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.960
because the lockout. So myself and
I ended up hiring another guy who still
352
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.720
there doing great things with the red
wings with video production. But he and
353
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.839
I went to grand rapids, which
was the my league affiliate for the Red
354
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.109
Wings, and we did some stuff
with them. But I was like,
355
00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:47.549
man, I don't know how long
it's going to last. I'm kind of
356
00:27:47.589 --> 00:27:51.069
at a nice hot young part in
my career where I want to keep doing
357
00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:56.150
things. So I actually got hit
up by a consultants, a woman who
358
00:27:56.230 --> 00:28:00.339
was consulting for the Detroit Pistons.
She had actually worked for the LA dodgers
359
00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:03.700
and we had cross paths during my
time as a diamond back and she recommended
360
00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.660
that I in review for the Pistons. They needed a videoboard director. I
361
00:28:08.059 --> 00:28:11.779
forget what happened to their current person, but they their season just started and
362
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:18.130
they were without somebody you have fully
run their in arener show. So I
363
00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:19.289
said sure, I'm going to lock
out right now. I'm not a huge
364
00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:22.890
basketball fan, but you know,
it could be fun. You know,
365
00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:26.049
get me back in the director's chairs. Let's give it a shot. Ended
366
00:28:26.089 --> 00:28:30.599
up getting that job and as much
as I don't love basketball, I absolutely
367
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.359
loved being a part of in arena
production for basketball. The NBA is all
368
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:40.480
about entertainment, value and fun and
and and, you know, creative and
369
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:44.150
we had a hundred one performers,
counting the mascot. So you have four
370
00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:48.109
different dance teams, are drumline.
It was just crazy. We had halftime
371
00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:52.950
performers all the time. And when
I work for the Pistons, it wasn't
372
00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:57.259
just the Pistons, it was palace
sports and entertainment and they they were called
373
00:28:57.339 --> 00:29:03.059
that because it was so much more
than just basketball. They owned two different
374
00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:07.740
concert venues up in the suburb suburb
areas of Detroit. One various. If
375
00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:12.569
you have an outdoor concert venue,
you know that attracts five to tenzero people
376
00:29:12.769 --> 00:29:15.930
for concerts. We had one of
those and it was part of my responsibility
377
00:29:15.930 --> 00:29:18.569
to put on the video board shows
for those concerts in the summer too.
378
00:29:18.650 --> 00:29:25.359
So I really, really enjoyed my
time with that organization and it was kind
379
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:29.400
of propelling me back in the right
direction right like I stepped away from the
380
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:34.359
diamondbacks and that culture to the red
wings, which again seemed like a really
381
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.880
great idea and I got to do
some different things, but it wasn't in
382
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.470
line with what I really wanted to
do and the PS and the opportunity definitely
383
00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:51.029
got me going back in right direction. And then you had a kind of
384
00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:53.099
a turning point in your career.
You stayed at the state, at the
385
00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:57.779
Pistons, for a little bit,
you made some really amazing work there and
386
00:29:59.779 --> 00:30:04.299
then you decided to take off and
you went to an agency. What was
387
00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:10.730
going on at that point that made
you make that move? The agency idea
388
00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:15.329
was I want to deserve more money
into I shouldn't be working eighty plus hours
389
00:30:15.369 --> 00:30:19.170
a week anymore because I'm just I'm
tired, I need a break, and
390
00:30:19.769 --> 00:30:22.440
there were a few creative agencies in
Detroit at the time. You know,
391
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:27.319
the Detroit to pull itself out of
its kind of lows from five or ten
392
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.200
years part of that, and it
was a bit of a creative hub because
393
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:37.710
the incentives for creatives to come there
and you know, the if you were
394
00:30:37.750 --> 00:30:41.269
to film a movie there, if
they filmed a bunch of transformers movies and
395
00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:45.710
some of the avengers movies. I
think they're it's because the tax breaks that
396
00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:48.990
Michigan was giving folks for doing movies
there. So it started become a little
397
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.299
bit of a creative hot spot and
there were a bunch of little agencies that
398
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:56.140
were opening up and there was one
that caught my attention that I applied for.
399
00:30:56.619 --> 00:31:00.579
It was in a really good part
of suburban Detroit. They didn't really
400
00:31:00.619 --> 00:31:04.450
have somebody to to oversee their inhouse
video. They outsource a lot of videos.
401
00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:08.170
They were losing margins on the video
content projects that they were working out
402
00:31:08.170 --> 00:31:12.329
with their clients and I went and
I met with the CEO and we you
403
00:31:12.410 --> 00:31:15.609
know, he saw value and me
and I saw value and the opportunity to
404
00:31:15.690 --> 00:31:21.240
go there and make some good money. So I took that opportunity to try
405
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:26.039
something new and thankfully, you know, the Pistons were Nice about it and
406
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.559
they allowed me to consult with them
and help them kind of transition another member
407
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.869
of their staff to oversee the in
stadium production and you know, I worked
408
00:31:33.910 --> 00:31:37.190
with that person for a couple of
months while, you know, on night's
409
00:31:37.309 --> 00:31:41.549
weekends, while I started my new
job the agency. But quickly realize the
410
00:31:41.630 --> 00:31:45.829
agency life, at least at this
agency, was not it for me either
411
00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:52.740
him it. Although I was making
more money and the the work was good
412
00:31:53.019 --> 00:32:01.049
and hours were better, the culture
was just awful. Thankfully, my boss
413
00:32:01.089 --> 00:32:06.490
at the Pistons had moved on at
an opportunity with the Detroit Tigers and he
414
00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:10.410
needed a number to so he came
to my rescue, so speak, and
415
00:32:12.529 --> 00:32:15.400
I I left my job at the
agency. You know, this was this
416
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.359
is kind of a fun thing to
look back on because I was a little
417
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.000
bit mistreated again. Like I said, unfortunately some of my boss has had
418
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:28.640
some drinking problems and how they treated
their employees was reflected and some of those
419
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:30.630
problems. And you know, that
was a day where I wrote my letter
420
00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:34.710
of resignation. I printed it out, I left it on my desk,
421
00:32:34.750 --> 00:32:38.589
I cleared my my computer except for
my letter of resignation. I left that
422
00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:50.140
up and I just walked away.
So we talked about you know, I've
423
00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.220
been coming after you for a long
time because we had always wanted to rework
424
00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:57.940
together again since the minute you left
the d backs, and we ended up
425
00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:02.009
doing a lot of projects together through
that. But then, you know,
426
00:33:02.289 --> 00:33:07.529
we had a position open. That
was a perfect fit for you in Miami,
427
00:33:07.690 --> 00:33:12.849
and you know, I asked you
to come down and and and you
428
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.519
did tell me about that move.
Tell me about that time in your life
429
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:22.119
where, you know, you were
in a relationship, you were settling down
430
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.390
more. You know what made you
want to come out. So yeah,
431
00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:30.789
I mean it was a weird time
because, you know, as I mentioned
432
00:33:30.829 --> 00:33:35.750
before, previous opportunities to go to
other places, it was always somebody else
433
00:33:35.789 --> 00:33:37.509
that reached out. In this case
it was you know, you reached out
434
00:33:37.549 --> 00:33:43.980
to me for this job. But
when you left the diamondbacks, they're called
435
00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:46.660
the president, CEO of the team. The day you said that you were
436
00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:50.180
leaving her, maybe the day after. You know, within twenty four hours
437
00:33:50.539 --> 00:33:54.380
I got a text message from Brook, his assistant, asking if I was
438
00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:59.490
available for a conversation. Talked to
Brook. It's like yeah, absolutely,
439
00:33:59.490 --> 00:34:01.049
Let's I'd love to talk to Derek. It's been a long time since I've
440
00:34:01.089 --> 00:34:05.130
heard from him, and he basically
asked me, you know, we're losing
441
00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:07.289
johnny. I can't believe we're losing
johnny. It kills me. Will you
442
00:34:07.369 --> 00:34:10.159
come back and take his job?
And I told him no, as hard
443
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:15.840
as it was because I had started
dating a girl whom I didn't want to
444
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.079
up and leave. We just started
a relationship, things are going really well.
445
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.349
I had kind of been chasing job
opportunities around forever, so I said
446
00:34:24.389 --> 00:34:30.230
No. A couple weeks after that, my old leadership at the Pistons reached
447
00:34:30.269 --> 00:34:34.269
out and said, hey, we're
putting in a brand new video board.
448
00:34:34.429 --> 00:34:37.150
We need somebody with your expertise to
come run it. I know you just
449
00:34:37.309 --> 00:34:40.579
went to the Tigers. Do you
want to come back? And they offered
450
00:34:40.659 --> 00:34:43.900
me a good amount of money to
come to you that. I was like,
451
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.300
you know, what an opportunity to
build a brand new video board.
452
00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:51.340
Yep, let's do it. Cool, sign my awful letter. The next
453
00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:55.889
day you calm yep and you say, Yo, we just lost somebody in
454
00:34:55.969 --> 00:35:00.289
our video production team. You'd be
a great fit here. You want to
455
00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:04.610
come down to Miami, and I'm
like, what is going on? What's
456
00:35:04.650 --> 00:35:07.599
in the water? Everyone's calling me
and you know, I'm super, super
457
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:13.559
grateful for everybody. All three of
those conversations were amazing and I still have
458
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.760
good friendships with everybody who offered me
those opportunities. But you know, it
459
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.280
was a chance to work with you
again. It was a chance to work
460
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:25.429
in the NFL, which has this
aura, right, it has this energy.
461
00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:32.309
The NFL a shield, the greatest
show on Turfin or what all the
462
00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:37.340
other superlatives you want to throw at
it. But so I was like,
463
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:40.860
you know what, okay, like
let's let's really investigate this opportunity. And
464
00:35:42.219 --> 00:35:45.420
you know, again, the money
was was good, the opportunity was good
465
00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:49.739
to work with you again. I
was really excited about. You know,
466
00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:52.690
you guys were doing some things a
little bit differently and newer and kind of
467
00:35:53.250 --> 00:35:57.610
on the modern edge of creative content. You told me about this guy named
468
00:35:57.650 --> 00:36:00.090
Surf Melendez who was hired on the
same day that you were. That was
469
00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:04.050
kind of leading the creative direction.
You really got along with him and like
470
00:36:04.170 --> 00:36:06.880
working with him, and so I
said, you know what, let the
471
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.400
hell, let's let's give a shout, let's move down to the Florida.
472
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.719
Thankfully, that was one part of
the country that my male wife, but
473
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.030
girlfriend at the time, was open
to moving to. So we made it
474
00:36:19.150 --> 00:36:22.630
work, we figured out and,
you know, off to south Florida I
475
00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:28.349
went. Let's fast forward a little
bit after that, you know, we
476
00:36:28.389 --> 00:36:32.420
can talk about you, you leaving
the dolphins pretty quickly after that, taking
477
00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:37.980
a job, another job that you
were sought after very importantly, working for
478
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:43.539
Van Wagner back in Phoenix. So
you went back to Phoenix. You're feeling
479
00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:47.650
good. You and Lanney are loving
it out there. Once again, I
480
00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:53.289
come knocking on your door saying hey, buddy, let's let's let's, let's
481
00:36:53.329 --> 00:36:59.369
bring the party back. We have
this Dream Team now we've which we're really
482
00:36:59.489 --> 00:37:04.960
trying to create something really, really
next level here at the dolphins and and
483
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.360
we were at that point. We
were changing the course of of sports creative
484
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:15.159
from the photography, from the video
side and from the creative side. But
485
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.909
we really needed someone to take our
storytelling to the next level. You're the
486
00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:22.469
guy and I fought for you really, really hard to bring you back in
487
00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:28.070
and you came back in. How
was that transition back to coming back the
488
00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:34.460
Dolphins, new coaching staff and just
and just this feeling like we were going
489
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:38.139
up at right and nobody was going
to stop us. Sure, I want
490
00:37:38.179 --> 00:37:45.969
to preface, I guess, this
whole section of this chat with I don't
491
00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:52.130
aim to call anybody out, I
don't aim to name names, I don't
492
00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:55.289
aim to even name the organization,
as you know, doing anything wrong or
493
00:37:55.329 --> 00:38:01.159
negative or affecting me personally. I
don't think that. I think that the
494
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:07.719
challenges we're going to dive into our
I don't want to use the words systemic,
495
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:09.880
but I think that they're just a
part of sports culture. That is
496
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.349
a bigger issue, right. So
I'm going to do my absolute best to
497
00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:19.389
kind of not tiptoe around certain things, but I just I don't want to
498
00:38:19.429 --> 00:38:40.219
make anything personal. I left the
dolphins the first time because the culture,
499
00:38:42.489 --> 00:38:50.889
specifically in video creative, was challenging. There were there was a bit of
500
00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:55.639
a old versus new and that that
happens in every single culture, every single
501
00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.079
organization to some degree, especially when
there's new leadership that comes in and they
502
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.239
bring in New People and it's well, you know, the old ideas clearly
503
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.639
didn't work, which is why the
New People are here. So you have
504
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:12.750
to listen to our new ideas and
there's this this built in rivalry that is
505
00:39:12.869 --> 00:39:15.510
there and it was in spades at
the dolphins, at least during, you
506
00:39:15.590 --> 00:39:19.989
know, especially during my first tour
because, you know, you guys and
507
00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:22.829
new CEO and new c sweet people
and just there was a lot of new
508
00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:27.099
stuff going on because people were trying
to turn things around in Miami. It
509
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.059
was all there was a lot of
mediocre seasons there on and off the field.
510
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:36.420
You could argue and people wanted to
change things. So there are a
511
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:39.250
lot of really, really good people
that were put in really, really shitty
512
00:39:39.289 --> 00:39:46.050
positions culturally and kind of left without
a lot of leadership or support to figure
513
00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:51.210
it out on our own, and
it wasn't working. So I remove myself
514
00:39:51.250 --> 00:40:00.639
from the equation because I was very
unhappy. Fast forward to US moving back
515
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.800
to Arizona. I had taken a
great opportunity to be on the consultant provider
516
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.869
side of in stadium production with Van
Wagner Sports Entertainment. Anybody in the industry
517
00:40:09.869 --> 00:40:13.829
who knows who they are. They
do all the super bowls, the Olympics.
518
00:40:14.030 --> 00:40:17.269
They're super talented group of people who
have done things right for a really
519
00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:21.619
long time. I loved my job
with them because it gave me the opportunity
520
00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:24.699
to move back to Phoenix, which
had kind of become home for me and
521
00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:30.059
I very much missed it when I
moved away. When I left the diamondbacks
522
00:40:30.099 --> 00:40:32.260
back in two thousand and eleven,
but we were happy here. Things were
523
00:40:32.300 --> 00:40:37.010
going well, and then you called
and and basically, some changes, like
524
00:40:37.050 --> 00:40:39.130
you said, I've been made and
it was a great opportunity for me to
525
00:40:39.210 --> 00:40:43.690
come back and be a leader,
at least on the video and in game
526
00:40:43.889 --> 00:40:47.570
entertainment side for the dolphins. It
was my chance to change those things that
527
00:40:47.650 --> 00:40:53.760
I didn't enjoy before, or so
I thought, and so I was very
528
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.239
apprehensive. To be honest with you. It was not as easy of a
529
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:02.960
decision as it should have been.
It took a while to decide this is
530
00:41:04.429 --> 00:41:07.789
this is the right role, this
is the right thing to do. My
531
00:41:07.949 --> 00:41:12.909
wife was very apprehensive about it and
you know, I've now in hindsight and
532
00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:15.949
we'll get into it more, but
I will say that it kind of my
533
00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:22.260
career. This is the going back
to Miami was probably the my only major
534
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:24.940
regret my career, and you know, again, we'll dig into that.
535
00:41:25.099 --> 00:41:32.690
But my gut said no, but
my heart said yes, because my heart
536
00:41:32.889 --> 00:41:37.289
was I wanted to do things that
had never been done before and I wanted
537
00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:38.809
to push myself and I wanted to
work with you again and I wanted to
538
00:41:38.849 --> 00:41:42.889
work with surf again and I wanted
to be a part of the Dream Team
539
00:41:42.929 --> 00:41:47.599
and I wanted to be recognized for
my creative skills and you know my all
540
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.360
the work that I put into all
the moving. I thought would be justified
541
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:54.719
if we were able to just get
this core team of really amazing creatives together
542
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:59.199
to just do things that had never
been done before. And that was really
543
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:00.750
the reason why we said, Yep, okay, let's go back and let's
544
00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:08.590
give another shot. And it was
great for a short amount of time.
545
00:42:09.710 --> 00:42:16.099
And you, you were directing the
shows, you were calling the shots from
546
00:42:16.139 --> 00:42:23.539
up top and and there's an innate
pressure that comes along with that. Tell
547
00:42:23.619 --> 00:42:29.420
me some of the brand new stadium. Right. So we're we have a
548
00:42:29.539 --> 00:42:34.210
ton of stuff going on. We've
taking on a ton more roles and responsibility.
549
00:42:34.289 --> 00:42:37.449
Social media is at an all time
high. We are working with directly
550
00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:45.639
with facebook and in creating some massive
revenue streams from creative so there was this
551
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.519
high point where we said, hey, we are you know, we're not
552
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:54.199
creative services, we are create of
team, we are an inhouse agency and
553
00:42:54.280 --> 00:43:00.269
we are making money that we can
directly contribute to this. It kind of
554
00:43:01.070 --> 00:43:10.070
it took its toll because of the
drive that was the NFL. Tell me
555
00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:15.699
a little bit about how you felt
during this time. You went through a
556
00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:19.260
lot of ups and downs, that's
for sure. Yeah, and you know,
557
00:43:19.500 --> 00:43:22.900
here's something that a lot of creatives
who, hopefully we'll get a chance
558
00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:25.619
to listen and relate to this.
I think that they're all going to understand
559
00:43:27.250 --> 00:43:30.849
this. Next major point, and
it's you said, I was doing the
560
00:43:30.929 --> 00:43:35.449
in game presentation and that was absolutely
a major part of my job. And
561
00:43:35.769 --> 00:43:39.130
every single NFL Game Day or College
Football Game Day, Football Game Day,
562
00:43:40.010 --> 00:43:44.679
the weight of every single second.
You know, every second on the clock
563
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.400
matters, every foot on the field
matters, every down, every play,
564
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.199
every time out. You know you
if you make one mistake, that's the
565
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:57.070
difference between our winner a loss and
then the NFL wins and losses are so
566
00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:02.949
important. So the pressure is tenfold
for in game presentation. But let's,
567
00:44:04.070 --> 00:44:07.590
you know, let's remove that equation
of my job. When I said that
568
00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:12.340
the diamondbacks we were only doing in
game presentation because we didn't have our own
569
00:44:12.340 --> 00:44:15.260
digital media. At the red wings
was a little different, pistons a little
570
00:44:15.260 --> 00:44:20.179
bit different, but at the at
the dolphins, you guys had had burst
571
00:44:20.380 --> 00:44:24.809
a culture of digital content first and
it's because it was an amazing revenue stream.
572
00:44:24.849 --> 00:44:30.210
It was an amazing brand growth tool. You know, you guys.
573
00:44:30.329 --> 00:44:34.170
No longer was creative services looked at
as an expense. You were an asset.
574
00:44:34.570 --> 00:44:37.599
Right, all of a sudden,
you're making money for the organization in
575
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:45.599
ways. That something that used to
just drain money from did so. That's
576
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.360
where the emphasis shifted, and not
only was I responsible for overseeing the video
577
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:55.150
production for the ten come, the
two preseason games in game events at hard
578
00:44:55.190 --> 00:45:00.269
rock stadium, but I was responsible
for overseeing the video production team that created
579
00:45:00.389 --> 00:45:05.829
now hundreds of pieces of content throughout
the year that was sponsorable, that was
580
00:45:05.909 --> 00:45:10.099
sold, that drove ticket sales.
All of a sudden that became the major,
581
00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:14.500
major priority. Ninety five percent of
had to go to everything that we
582
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:16.860
had signed ourselves up for in terms
of content creation. And not only that,
583
00:45:17.260 --> 00:45:22.210
but we had this massive target on
our backs, both internally and externally,
584
00:45:22.570 --> 00:45:28.530
to be the best in sports,
and it that's where it took a
585
00:45:28.610 --> 00:45:30.929
toll. Right, I'm you know, we're on everybody. It wasn't just
586
00:45:31.090 --> 00:45:34.650
me, it wasn't just you,
it wasn't everybody that was a part of
587
00:45:34.690 --> 00:45:39.559
our team, but it was the
entire organization, because we started writing checks
588
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:45.480
that we're a part of the greater
brand vision, but we didn't have the
589
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.670
staff or the tools in order to
sustain it at a way that made living
590
00:45:50.710 --> 00:46:09.500
as a normal human being possible.
So, you know, like you said,
591
00:46:09.619 --> 00:46:12.940
when I got there at the beginning, I came back, it was
592
00:46:13.059 --> 00:46:15.019
great. Yes, we still had
some of our cultural challenges, yes,
593
00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:17.690
we still had some of that old
versus new mentality, but it was better
594
00:46:17.730 --> 00:46:22.130
than it had ever been before and
we were doing some really, really amazing
595
00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:28.170
things in preparation for this new season. Now here's where things start to get
596
00:46:29.130 --> 00:46:35.039
twisted from me personally. Never ever
in sports, in my sports career,
597
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:39.960
had I worked closely with the team
and I again, I'm going to preface
598
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:43.840
this with I'm not I'm not here
to call anybody out. I'm not going
599
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.630
to name names, I'm not going
to I'm going to say I was never
600
00:46:46.670 --> 00:46:50.750
asked to break a rule. I
want to make sure that was absolutely clear.
601
00:46:51.309 --> 00:46:54.469
Nobody ever asked me to break the
rules. However, I was asked
602
00:46:54.510 --> 00:47:00.659
to spend a lot of time and
energy and thought into doing every little single
603
00:47:00.820 --> 00:47:06.980
thing that I could to provide a
home field advantage for our team. Again,
604
00:47:07.219 --> 00:47:09.099
never to break a rule. I
was never I was never put in
605
00:47:09.139 --> 00:47:13.980
a spot where where I was told
to do something that would be against the
606
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:20.289
rules, but I didn't feel good
about all of the energy and time I
607
00:47:20.489 --> 00:47:23.730
was spent on all of this other
stuff not related to entertaining the fans at
608
00:47:23.730 --> 00:47:29.289
hard rock stadium or making sure that, you know, we were fulfilling our
609
00:47:29.329 --> 00:47:35.880
sponsorship requirements or we were making a
moment or something for a young fan to
610
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.039
look back on and tell their friends
about at school. All my energy and
611
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:43.159
focus, at least on Game Day, went to how are we going to
612
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:47.349
help the team win? And that's
not something I ever thought I signed up
613
00:47:47.469 --> 00:47:52.710
for. And I was pushed and
pushed and pushed to the point where it
614
00:47:52.909 --> 00:47:57.829
just made me feel gross inside.
Because it's this. This wasn't why I
615
00:47:57.869 --> 00:48:00.059
did what I did. I did
this to be a part of moments and
616
00:48:00.099 --> 00:48:08.179
make memories and share in the the
amazing faith based entertainment that is pro sports.
617
00:48:08.539 --> 00:48:14.010
Not what do I got to do
every second of this game to provide
618
00:48:14.010 --> 00:48:16.329
a home field advantage? It just
it went way too far on the other
619
00:48:16.409 --> 00:48:22.769
side of the spectrum. What what
was the debate raging in your head at
620
00:48:22.809 --> 00:48:27.159
that point? Well, it was
like, why am I doing this?
621
00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.840
Who Am I? Who am I
doing this for? At what point is
622
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:35.960
this too much? I'll tell you
a really quick story. When I knew.
623
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:38.400
I knew this was a problem because
I was fighting it internally at the
624
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:45.389
beginning. You know, I started
reviewing all of these different opportunities and ways
625
00:48:45.750 --> 00:48:51.030
to provide a on field advantage and
I spent more time with the football leadership
626
00:48:51.070 --> 00:48:55.860
that I had ever spent with any
other sports team leadership before in cultivating these
627
00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:00.619
opportunities to provide a home field advantage. And I was asked by my leadership
628
00:49:00.699 --> 00:49:04.579
to be a part of it.
And again, I don't. I don't
629
00:49:04.579 --> 00:49:07.860
think this is anything that other NFL
teams aren't doing right. Every NFL team
630
00:49:07.940 --> 00:49:13.409
is trying to win football games period. That's what it's all about. But
631
00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:15.690
it just wasn't something I'd ever been
asked to do before. So I felt
632
00:49:15.730 --> 00:49:20.690
like I was doing something wrong,
or I was I would spend time,
633
00:49:20.730 --> 00:49:27.599
effort energy on something that wasn't at
my core values of why I did sports
634
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:31.079
creative and it was extremely conflicting.
And you know, one story that kind
635
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:36.199
of was a boiling point for me, at least in the beginning of all
636
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:42.110
this, was week one of the
two thousand and seventeen NFL season. I
637
00:49:42.269 --> 00:49:45.630
forget the name. Was Irma Herrican
RMA? Yeah, whatever the name of
638
00:49:45.630 --> 00:49:49.949
the hurricane was, was coming through
South Florida and it was on a trajectory,
639
00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:52.380
a crash course with Miami Gardens,
which is where our cdium was,
640
00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:59.860
and so they canceled week one,
our game against Tampa Bay, and where
641
00:49:59.900 --> 00:50:04.820
I lived was in an evacuation zone. So myself and my new wife had
642
00:50:04.900 --> 00:50:07.610
to go back up to Michigan to
spend a few days with our family.
643
00:50:07.610 --> 00:50:10.090
Were renewed be safe. And I
had landed in Michigan and I had been
644
00:50:10.210 --> 00:50:15.369
there for maybe three hours. That
was the the money day night, or
645
00:50:15.409 --> 00:50:17.610
not, maybe the Thursday, the
Thursday night, because it was a Thursday
646
00:50:17.610 --> 00:50:22.880
night game to start the season.
I get a text message from someone within
647
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.800
the Organization asking me if I was
watching the Monday or the Thursday night football
648
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:31.039
game and studying the plays to make
sure that I was knowing what I needed
649
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:36.710
to do come Game Day for our
first Game Day. I mean, I
650
00:50:36.949 --> 00:50:40.230
literally just gotten off a plane evacuating
my family from a hurricane and I'm start
651
00:50:40.550 --> 00:50:45.909
catching shit from not my boss,
from somebody else on the other side of
652
00:50:45.949 --> 00:50:50.099
the organization saying I really need to
be watching this game and studying these plays.
653
00:50:51.460 --> 00:50:55.340
That was that was the beginning of
the end. I was really upset
654
00:50:55.420 --> 00:51:00.340
by that and it was you know, never again did I feel like I
655
00:51:00.579 --> 00:51:06.130
was being considered a human and dealing
with real life problems and I needed to
656
00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:09.090
put the priorities of winning football games
even watching games that were unrelated to my
657
00:51:09.250 --> 00:51:38.389
team. That was the beginning of
the end for me. Hey, everybody.
658
00:51:38.590 --> 00:51:43.190
So I want to take a quick
minute here to preface this next part
659
00:51:43.230 --> 00:51:45.949
and say that there maybe some triggers
here for some of you, is there
660
00:51:45.989 --> 00:51:52.739
were for me listening to this.
Our mental health should absolutely be the most
661
00:51:52.780 --> 00:51:57.019
important thing in our daily lives and, as you can delve from the past
662
00:51:57.139 --> 00:52:00.530
fifteen minutes, there are many,
many things in our lives that contribute to
663
00:52:01.130 --> 00:52:07.050
our own individual breaking points. Some
we can control and some we can't.
664
00:52:07.849 --> 00:52:12.849
But I just want to make sure
everyone knows that help is available. There
665
00:52:12.889 --> 00:52:15.880
are many, many small steps you
can do to break out of the vicious
666
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:22.760
cycle that is depression, headache,
anxiety and even further issues. Now,
667
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:27.559
I'm not a therapist or a counselor
by any means. But I do know
668
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:30.869
the things that worked for me,
where things like sucking up my ego and
669
00:52:31.030 --> 00:52:37.030
going to therapy, learning how to
breathe properly to distract my anxiety, even
670
00:52:37.070 --> 00:52:43.070
if for just a few minutes,
in using mindfulness exercises this as often as
671
00:52:43.070 --> 00:52:47.699
I needed them to help myself relax. So every Friday I'm going to record
672
00:52:47.820 --> 00:52:52.980
some mindfulness meditation exercises that you can
feel free to really do any time you
673
00:52:53.059 --> 00:52:58.849
feel anxiety and panics. And No, they may not help immediately, but
674
00:52:59.730 --> 00:53:02.530
as you begin to build habits with
them and deal with some of the other
675
00:53:02.610 --> 00:53:07.650
issues causing these feels, I hope
you'll be able to effectively mediate some of
676
00:53:07.690 --> 00:53:14.159
the things that are going on inside
you. Thanks for hearing me out and
677
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:30.510
now let's head back in for the
second half of will story. Is that
678
00:53:30.630 --> 00:53:35.750
your lowest point? No, AH, it gets it got worse for sure.
679
00:53:37.590 --> 00:53:45.019
So my my absolute breaking point,
I guess, emotionally and for all
680
00:53:45.139 --> 00:53:49.059
the years leading up to to you
know, this season is two thousand and
681
00:53:49.099 --> 00:53:52.340
seventeen year, I had always done
a really, really good job dealing with
682
00:53:52.460 --> 00:53:57.449
adversity and dealing with having my back
against the wall and deadlines and stress.
683
00:53:57.570 --> 00:54:00.090
I didn't really get stressed out like
I get annoyed and pissed off like everybody
684
00:54:00.090 --> 00:54:05.369
else does it certain things at certain
times, but I would always be okay
685
00:54:05.570 --> 00:54:07.690
and I'd always kind of work through
it and I always got it done,
686
00:54:08.010 --> 00:54:12.039
you know, and you know as
a creative sometimes when your backs against the
687
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.239
wall you do your best work.
So I would almost position myself in that
688
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:19.320
way because I knew that if I
procrastinated up until point, I would be
689
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:22.079
forced to get it done and I
would do a great job. I wouldn't
690
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:27.309
get myself time to think about it. But in this is when things started
691
00:54:27.389 --> 00:54:30.710
to change. This is when I
started to doubt myself and my instincts.
692
00:54:30.750 --> 00:54:36.190
And so fast forward, you know. That was week one. I mentioned
693
00:54:36.309 --> 00:54:40.579
the game, you know, got
moved and things progressively started to get worse.
694
00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:45.099
We had a rough season. I
think we were formed for at this
695
00:54:45.179 --> 00:54:49.820
point in the season. It's week
nine, Sun Night Football against the Oakland
696
00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:57.409
raiders the so the regular one o'clock
games are pretty simple, right. You
697
00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:00.809
have your commercial breaks, you have
your one o'clock kickoff time, nothing too
698
00:55:00.889 --> 00:55:05.650
crazy happens because it's just a standard
broadcast window and everything in the NFL is
699
00:55:05.690 --> 00:55:08.400
about the broadcast because of the TV
revenue and it that makes sense. So
700
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:15.039
Sunday night and Monday night things get
a little different because their primetime entertainment.
701
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:20.239
So the broadcast has some wiggle room
as to what they want to do and
702
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:22.710
when they want to do it if
they feel it's going to make for a
703
00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:28.309
better broadcast experience. So a pregame, the broadcasters, the in Stadium Folks
704
00:55:28.510 --> 00:55:31.510
and the referees always have a pregame
meeting. I was at the meeting for
705
00:55:31.590 --> 00:55:39.340
this game and the producer for Fox
says if the score is I don't remember
706
00:55:39.380 --> 00:55:43.980
what it was, if the scored
differentials nine points are more, we will
707
00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:49.460
continue with the fourth quarter final break
as normal. If it's less than that,
708
00:55:50.010 --> 00:55:52.250
will cancel the break. Will do
a quick one minute break and come
709
00:55:52.329 --> 00:55:57.530
back so people that we don't lose
people to get the action, kind of
710
00:55:57.690 --> 00:56:00.809
in in in, one year out
the other, type thing. Like Yep,
711
00:56:00.809 --> 00:56:02.889
I acknowledged it. Shook my head. Okay, Great. Fast forward
712
00:56:02.929 --> 00:56:07.280
to that point in the game.
It's the fourth quarter. Two minute warning.
713
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.559
It's a stop down. You have
to take a commercial break, like
714
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:15.440
it's always been tradition, or at
least it was for many years leading up
715
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:17.199
to that point at the Miami Dolphins, for the cheerleaders to perform during that
716
00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:21.309
break. They go on the field, they do their ninety two routine in
717
00:56:21.429 --> 00:56:23.030
one of the end zones, everybody
claps, we go back to football.
718
00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:29.269
At break was always reserved a cheer
and canceling that break, although doable,
719
00:56:29.630 --> 00:56:31.030
was kind of frowned upon. We
kind of we wanted to keep them in
720
00:56:31.070 --> 00:56:36.420
that break because people were used to
seeing them there. Well, we were
721
00:56:36.460 --> 00:56:39.059
at that point where I think the
point differential was like one more or one
722
00:56:39.099 --> 00:56:44.579
less than the that that guy said
and, to be honest with you,
723
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:49.369
I was dealing with so much worrying
about all those home field advantage things that
724
00:56:49.409 --> 00:56:53.369
I needed to be worried about that
I wasn't in my instincts to do that.
725
00:56:53.449 --> 00:56:58.010
I kind of lost sight of the
situation in the game. So I
726
00:56:59.130 --> 00:57:01.880
just assumed everything was normal, roll
the cheerleaders on the field. Nobody had
727
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:07.079
communicated to me otherwise that the broadcast
was going to take a short break and
728
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.960
sure enough, after a minute,
referee moves his arms, blows a whistle.
729
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:15.309
Let's go. I'm still playing music, cheerleaders are still dancing on the
730
00:57:15.349 --> 00:57:20.829
field and Jay Cutler's lining up behind
our center to take a snap in the
731
00:57:20.949 --> 00:57:23.829
end zone or near the end zone
where the cheeladers are performing. I scream
732
00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:29.150
at my DJ, kill the music, kill the music. We kill the
733
00:57:29.190 --> 00:57:31.980
music as our offense is lining up
to hike the football, which if I
734
00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:36.860
mean, as you know, John
but others, playing any music or any
735
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:39.260
audio at all while we're on offense, was a huge no no in terms
736
00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:44.139
of the home field advantage stuff that
we're talking about. So I already made
737
00:57:44.139 --> 00:57:49.809
a major mistake there in the eyes
of our football operations. But you know,
738
00:57:49.929 --> 00:57:52.730
the cheerleaders are on the field,
music stops. They're trained with if
739
00:57:52.769 --> 00:57:54.409
the music cuts out early that they
stopped and they walk off the field,
740
00:57:54.409 --> 00:57:58.210
but they do it in uniform and
inline. So it took them like another
741
00:57:58.329 --> 00:58:05.159
twenty seconds off the field. And
my phone starts blowing up. Everybody within
742
00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:08.360
the organization that mattered was calling,
texting, email me. What the fuck
743
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:14.389
was that? What the fuck is
going on? Expletive, expletive, I'm
744
00:58:14.429 --> 00:58:17.510
getting calls on the radio. It
was like my world was crashing down upon
745
00:58:17.590 --> 00:58:21.909
me and, to be honest with
you, any other time in my life
746
00:58:21.909 --> 00:58:23.789
I feel like I would have handled
this situation? Yep, fucked up.
747
00:58:23.869 --> 00:58:27.500
Timmy was off. We got the
field no problem. Actually, I think
748
00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:31.139
Jay Cutler completed that pass, so
it was a we're back in the football
749
00:58:31.139 --> 00:58:35.059
game, like things are okay.
I didn't, I didn't affect the game
750
00:58:35.059 --> 00:58:39.139
at all. Right, people watching
on TV didn't notice. The broadcasters didn't
751
00:58:39.139 --> 00:58:43.250
acknowledge it. It kind of just
the folks who knew what was going on
752
00:58:43.409 --> 00:58:47.929
with the actual event itself noticed it, but most people did. And as
753
00:58:49.210 --> 00:58:52.570
my world starts crashing down on me. You know what scene in jaws where
754
00:58:52.610 --> 00:58:54.489
they do the camera trick where like
they zoom out but it stays on the
755
00:58:55.000 --> 00:59:00.119
guy's face like I felt like that
was happening, like my everything went numb
756
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:07.199
and silent and about ten seconds later
I wake up on my console in a
757
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:12.110
complete cold sweat. I had passed
out. My Body had a fight or
758
00:59:12.150 --> 00:59:16.429
flight moment and it picked flight and
left me and in my body laying their
759
00:59:16.469 --> 00:59:25.860
covered in sweat and I've got a
whole crew of people trying to get my
760
00:59:25.900 --> 00:59:29.420
attention on headset, trying to ask
me what to do next, and I'm
761
00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:37.340
out cold. And that was that
moment. was where I realized I've pushed
762
00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:42.690
myself way too far and I'm I'm
not well and I have to do something
763
00:59:42.730 --> 00:59:46.570
about this. So I went home
that night. We lost the game,
764
00:59:47.090 --> 00:59:52.250
but what happened on the field with
the cheerleaders was inconsequential. It didn't matter.
765
00:59:52.769 --> 00:59:55.239
People were pissed off and annoyed,
but it didn't have an effect on
766
00:59:55.280 --> 00:60:00.559
the game. I caught a tremendous
amount of ship for it. We actually
767
00:60:00.639 --> 00:60:05.000
what's funny, as I reached out
to director broadcasting with the NFL after that
768
00:60:05.079 --> 00:60:07.829
happened, it basically explained what had
happened, owned up for the mistake that
769
00:60:07.869 --> 00:60:12.070
I made by not assuming that we
were going to shorten that break and kind
770
00:60:12.070 --> 00:60:17.789
of losing sight of of that being
a possibility. And because of that happening
771
00:60:19.469 --> 00:60:22.900
there's actually now new things, new
protocols and which we're able to communicate with
772
00:60:23.780 --> 00:60:29.340
the broadcast if we're going to make
a change like that. So it's not
773
00:60:29.500 --> 00:60:31.699
like a massive rule change was made, but new protocols were put in place
774
00:60:31.739 --> 00:60:35.889
to protect against that. So at
least there was a positive that came out
775
00:60:35.889 --> 00:60:38.809
of that. But again, yeah, unless you were paying close attention to
776
00:60:38.849 --> 00:60:40.849
it or knew what was supposed to
happen, you would have ever known to
777
00:60:40.969 --> 00:60:45.170
happen, but it that my world
came crumbling down in that moment, for
778
00:60:45.289 --> 00:61:07.789
sure. Wow. So this was
a this was the lowest point, the
779
00:61:07.829 --> 00:61:10.389
rock bottom point, that that you
had been in probably in your career.
780
00:61:12.829 --> 00:61:19.099
And thinking back on this, were
there any signs? Were there any things
781
00:61:19.179 --> 00:61:23.619
that you could have done to better
prevent or protect yourself from getting to this
782
00:61:23.860 --> 00:61:29.820
point? Yeah, I mean I
think that it was obviously, you know,
783
00:61:30.300 --> 00:61:38.329
ten years of grinding and long hours
and late nights and sacrificing birthdays and
784
00:61:38.570 --> 00:61:43.610
holidays and weddings and you know,
all the things that you kind of give
785
00:61:43.650 --> 00:61:49.599
up in your real life to keep
pushing and grinding and pursuing the needs of
786
00:61:50.119 --> 00:61:53.159
the creative world, but also sports
creative in the in the crazy expectations that
787
00:61:53.239 --> 00:61:58.480
come with it. I think that
it was a culm nation of all of
788
00:61:58.679 --> 00:62:01.309
that weight that was just building and
building and building, and I wasn't paying
789
00:62:01.309 --> 00:62:04.869
attention to it. And I you
know, I. We all know about
790
00:62:04.869 --> 00:62:07.110
the hours. We know what we
sign up for right, we know kind
791
00:62:07.150 --> 00:62:12.510
of what's to be expected of us
to an extent. But when you reach
792
00:62:12.710 --> 00:62:15.940
that level that I was at,
me as a director level. So it's
793
00:62:15.980 --> 00:62:20.539
middle management right. You're catching it
from both sides and I think all of
794
00:62:20.659 --> 00:62:24.380
the expectations and the different things that
were going on with the amount of content
795
00:62:24.420 --> 00:62:29.260
that we were trying to create,
the expectations from football just, you know,
796
00:62:29.340 --> 00:62:36.369
the the layers finally broke me.
And I think that even though I
797
00:62:36.409 --> 00:62:42.050
knew deep down in my heart and
in my soul and my gut this probably
798
00:62:42.130 --> 00:62:45.639
was coming at some point in time, it definitely blindsided me because I was
799
00:62:45.960 --> 00:62:50.440
I buried it, I was ignoring
it, I was I just thought that
800
00:62:50.559 --> 00:62:53.039
this was what was expected of me
and my role and it this was normal,
801
00:62:53.280 --> 00:62:58.320
you know. And finally, you
know it, I just went over
802
00:62:58.400 --> 00:63:00.630
the edge and my body gave out
and said no more. You can't do
803
00:63:00.829 --> 00:63:05.630
this to yourself anymore, mentally or
physically. It just isn't possible. And
804
00:63:06.510 --> 00:63:14.139
so, yeah, it was just
normalizing some of those expectations for so long
805
00:63:14.699 --> 00:63:17.340
and again my body just saying no, that's not how this is supposed to
806
00:63:17.380 --> 00:63:27.099
go. There's there's a feeling that
we both had many times and in that
807
00:63:27.250 --> 00:63:30.969
I think a lot of other young
creatives are or not young creatives, are
808
00:63:30.010 --> 00:63:36.010
fighting with right now and it's the
feeling that we're stuck in what we thought
809
00:63:37.409 --> 00:63:42.480
was a dream job but turned out
to be not necessarily the dream we expected.
810
00:63:42.679 --> 00:63:49.639
Right the hours, the give everything
to the team, mentality, excessive
811
00:63:50.039 --> 00:63:55.190
productivity, porn addictions, the rise
and grind. It hits us to the
812
00:63:55.230 --> 00:64:01.630
point where it's so unhealthy that we
that we drive ourselves to have such anxiety
813
00:64:02.190 --> 00:64:11.780
and panic that you literally pass out
midplay, and it's it's so insanely unhealthy
814
00:64:13.099 --> 00:64:17.539
in it. Tell me about,
you know, tell me about these things
815
00:64:17.699 --> 00:64:24.369
in kind of the actions that you
took after this happened to make a change.
816
00:64:25.969 --> 00:64:30.090
I started to identify, you know, that I was I was really
817
00:64:30.250 --> 00:64:34.730
ill. I was not well inside. Now I had let my physical health
818
00:64:34.730 --> 00:64:42.880
and wellbeing go because my mental health
and wellbeing wasn't there anymore. I was
819
00:64:43.559 --> 00:64:45.599
drinking like a half a bottle.
took a bottle of wine every single night,
820
00:64:45.639 --> 00:64:49.920
which I thought was normal and obviously
in hindsight I know it's not normal.
821
00:64:50.679 --> 00:64:55.909
I was doing that so I could
come down from the pressure and the
822
00:64:56.909 --> 00:65:00.550
constant grind of what we're doing every
single day, and we're talking seven days
823
00:65:00.550 --> 00:65:02.869
a week. I mean we were
working Saturdays and Sundays all throughout the year
824
00:65:02.949 --> 00:65:09.380
too. So I did that so
I could sleep, essentially, and was
825
00:65:09.539 --> 00:65:15.699
just digging the hole deeper and deeper
and deeper. You know, friendships were
826
00:65:15.739 --> 00:65:21.130
strained, relationships were strained, family
relationships were strained. I was giving ninety
827
00:65:21.170 --> 00:65:25.849
five percent of my life to this
organization and everything that was being asked of
828
00:65:25.929 --> 00:65:30.050
me and I was coming home with
whatever was left in the tank and using
829
00:65:30.130 --> 00:65:33.530
that to just get myself through the
last couple hours before I was able to
830
00:65:33.570 --> 00:65:38.800
fall asleep and do it all over
again. So identifying those things was step
831
00:65:39.119 --> 00:65:44.840
one and realizing that it wasn't okay
and I wasn't healthy and this was beyond
832
00:65:44.840 --> 00:65:47.440
any sort of burn out that I
had felt before. This was this was
833
00:65:47.480 --> 00:65:54.630
absolute rock bottom for me personally that
I had to get away from and that
834
00:65:54.789 --> 00:65:59.269
meant no more chasing other supporters jobs. I needed to be done with sports,
835
00:66:00.510 --> 00:66:02.750
at least for a little while,
because I just I couldn't do it
836
00:66:02.829 --> 00:66:09.019
anymore. That it's scare you to
think that there may not be life outside
837
00:66:09.019 --> 00:66:13.420
of sports for you. It I
knew that I would be successful and I
838
00:66:13.500 --> 00:66:15.699
could do things outside of sports.
I knew that I had value. You
839
00:66:17.099 --> 00:66:21.449
know, operationally, creatively whatever.
I think I have inherent skills as a
840
00:66:21.489 --> 00:66:28.449
leader that I would have been okay
doing whatever, but I was scared that
841
00:66:28.530 --> 00:66:32.960
I was going to throw away eleven
years of Grind, eleven years of working
842
00:66:33.079 --> 00:66:38.039
my ass off, eleven years of
bouncing around and meeting people and making relationships
843
00:66:38.079 --> 00:66:43.199
and building a real and building a
portfolio and all the things that you feel
844
00:66:43.239 --> 00:66:47.030
like you will just abandon and you'll
be nothing without you. We associate ourselves
845
00:66:47.070 --> 00:66:54.510
with that work so much and I
was terrified that that was going to I
846
00:66:54.630 --> 00:66:57.070
was going to leave that behind and
it was going to float away forever.
847
00:66:58.429 --> 00:67:03.500
How did you break away from the
identity that was so wrapped up in professional
848
00:67:03.539 --> 00:67:10.340
sports for the past eleven years of
your life? So I took the job
849
00:67:10.460 --> 00:67:16.889
opportunity doing something different. You know, I did something that was altruistic.
850
00:67:18.170 --> 00:67:21.449
You. We met a guy named
Doug Betters in during our time with the
851
00:67:21.489 --> 00:67:27.849
dolphins. We told an amazing story
of him and his struggles and his triumphs
852
00:67:27.929 --> 00:67:31.039
in life and he used that term
altruistic. Could be honest, I had
853
00:67:31.159 --> 00:67:36.719
never heard it before, but in
describing his why for doing what he's done
854
00:67:36.760 --> 00:67:43.440
charitably, I needed to find that
I needed to stop trying to better myself
855
00:67:43.719 --> 00:67:47.429
and gain ground myself and take steps
forward myself and figure out ways that I
856
00:67:47.510 --> 00:67:54.789
could help other people be successful and
help other people. Essentially, I needed
857
00:67:54.829 --> 00:68:00.780
to serve something other than myself.
So I definitely needed to focus on that
858
00:68:00.980 --> 00:68:05.260
and thankfully, through a wife and
through connections with her organization, was able
859
00:68:05.380 --> 00:68:12.219
to do that, and now I'm
working with clinical professionals and helping children with
860
00:68:12.340 --> 00:68:15.449
autism and their families. I mean
that that has been such a great blessing
861
00:68:15.489 --> 00:68:19.770
because it's my why is no longer
selling tickets. My why is no longer
862
00:68:19.890 --> 00:68:25.289
winning football games or baseball games or
hockey games. My why is no longer
863
00:68:25.369 --> 00:68:30.520
making athletes and CEOS look good.
My why is helping children who have special
864
00:68:30.600 --> 00:68:34.640
needs get the support that they so
desperately need, and that is so much
865
00:68:34.640 --> 00:68:42.590
more important than any of the things
that I just mentioned. So that was
866
00:68:43.029 --> 00:68:46.270
one massive part of pulling myself out
of the hole that I had dug and
867
00:68:46.550 --> 00:69:09.380
been sitting in for a long time. With all that comes probably quite a
868
00:69:09.420 --> 00:69:14.489
bit of a ptsd and it's not
an easy thing to get out of.
869
00:69:14.729 --> 00:69:18.930
Explain, explain the feelings, explain
the process that you went through for the
870
00:69:19.050 --> 00:69:26.960
first six months leaving. So if
I thought that I was messed up while
871
00:69:27.000 --> 00:69:32.960
I was in it, nothing was
even close to how low I've I hit
872
00:69:33.479 --> 00:69:38.439
once I was out of it.
Because not only you know when you're in
873
00:69:38.560 --> 00:69:45.470
it and you're even though you are
exhausted and you're frustrated in your you're battling
874
00:69:45.630 --> 00:69:47.909
with your own inner thoughts and demons
when you're in that role, when you
875
00:69:48.029 --> 00:69:51.350
step out of it now, all
of a sudden your mind has time to
876
00:69:51.510 --> 00:69:58.060
wander and you you have to downshift
from that grind that you've been at for
877
00:69:58.220 --> 00:70:02.739
so long that you start to feel
guilty for not doing that anymore. It's
878
00:70:02.739 --> 00:70:06.369
a very weird, very real thing
and I know other people who have gotten
879
00:70:06.369 --> 00:70:11.250
out of it have gone through it
too. It took me a full year,
880
00:70:11.329 --> 00:70:18.649
a full year to even feel somewhat
like myself again. I was in
881
00:70:18.850 --> 00:70:24.159
my own head, I was depressed, I was I felt guilty about not
882
00:70:24.399 --> 00:70:27.800
doing what I used to do,
I felt guilty about not quote working as
883
00:70:27.840 --> 00:70:31.560
hard as I used to, I
felt guilty about working from home and I
884
00:70:31.800 --> 00:70:35.710
met it did really it took a
full year to just be okay with being
885
00:70:35.829 --> 00:70:42.789
okay. So that's a real thing
and it's that PTSD is something that needs
886
00:70:42.789 --> 00:70:48.430
to be discussed. I had physical
challenges right like there. I went through
887
00:70:49.020 --> 00:70:55.819
like three to six months of Grd
of basically the guy. I couldn't speak
888
00:70:55.979 --> 00:70:59.979
my because I had so much acid
reflux pent up and it was burning my
889
00:71:00.020 --> 00:71:02.340
esophagus that I like I couldn't speak
like normally. Love my voice changed.
890
00:71:02.739 --> 00:71:06.689
I mean physical things are happening to
me that I'd finally manifested from all that
891
00:71:06.810 --> 00:71:12.329
time that I'd spent beating myself down
mentally and physically. So that's a real
892
00:71:12.529 --> 00:71:16.050
thing, but it passes and you
get through it and you get past it
893
00:71:16.250 --> 00:71:23.399
and you you see that those are
results of positions you put yourself in,
894
00:71:23.600 --> 00:71:27.159
mentally and physically, and I also
want to be sure to mention that I
895
00:71:27.319 --> 00:71:30.239
know that there are many things that
I could have done differently to make this
896
00:71:30.479 --> 00:71:36.189
easier on myself. I'm not blaming
organizations, people or cultures or things like
897
00:71:36.270 --> 00:71:42.029
that as the sole reason why I
hit at low. I know that there's
898
00:71:42.069 --> 00:71:46.859
a lot of personal responsibility, but
ultimately the personal responsibility to get better was
899
00:71:46.939 --> 00:71:49.500
what pulled me out of it too, and recognizing that, like I have
900
00:71:49.699 --> 00:71:54.380
control over how I feel. I
have control over how I let other people
901
00:71:54.460 --> 00:72:00.819
make me feel. I have control
over how I used to feel not allowing
902
00:72:00.899 --> 00:72:03.689
that to impact me today, because
that, you know, fear of leaving
903
00:72:03.810 --> 00:72:09.170
that behind in the past is is
a real fear, but it's it's self
904
00:72:09.289 --> 00:72:14.130
inflicted. Like I still have all
the same contacts and friends. In some
905
00:72:14.289 --> 00:72:18.199
cases my friendships have gotten better with
sports people since I've, you know,
906
00:72:18.560 --> 00:72:24.960
moved on from there. So kind
of longwinded way of saying like, yeah,
907
00:72:25.039 --> 00:72:30.310
that's that Shit's deal and it shouldn't
be ignored. It should be expected.
908
00:72:30.510 --> 00:72:32.710
If you're going to make a move
and you're going to do a career
909
00:72:32.789 --> 00:72:36.069
change, you're going to try something
different, you're going to experience a whole
910
00:72:36.109 --> 00:72:43.750
spectrum of emotions and feelings, but
know that they'll pass as you start to
911
00:72:43.829 --> 00:72:46.579
understand what normal really is supposed to
feel like, because what you were feeling,
912
00:72:46.699 --> 00:72:51.420
what you think you're supposed to feel, isn't normal. Most people don't
913
00:72:51.460 --> 00:72:56.579
work that much and grind that hard
and are forced to meet deadlines that are
914
00:72:56.619 --> 00:73:01.569
unrealistic for so long and you know
you will get on the other side of
915
00:73:01.609 --> 00:73:12.170
it for sure. There's a there's
a toxicity right now in design twitter,
916
00:73:12.289 --> 00:73:17.199
and in a lot of that's because
of we are the the circles that we
917
00:73:17.239 --> 00:73:21.479
run in, and design twitter,
and I use that in quotes, is
918
00:73:23.239 --> 00:73:29.029
sports design twitter essentially it now.
But but you've been able to devote a
919
00:73:29.069 --> 00:73:32.069
ton of your time and talents to
to speak with and you're very open about
920
00:73:32.069 --> 00:73:36.390
saying that. My DMS are open. Hit Me Up, let me know,
921
00:73:36.630 --> 00:73:39.829
let's talk. You've talked to a
lot of people, you've made a
922
00:73:39.869 --> 00:73:43.819
lot of really good friends. It
helped a lot of people through this.
923
00:73:43.939 --> 00:73:47.659
How do you view this current landscape? Even now, in the time of
924
00:73:48.020 --> 00:73:53.779
Covid win, so many of our
friends and peers has zero job security in
925
00:73:53.859 --> 00:73:58.770
sports and our losing their jobs,
are putting on, going on furlough in
926
00:73:59.369 --> 00:74:02.529
in how can some of these how
can these creatives, you know, kind
927
00:74:02.569 --> 00:74:06.649
of identify issues that they may be
fighting with, demons that they may be
928
00:74:06.770 --> 00:74:11.880
fighting with, and shield themselves from
this and kind of really start to take
929
00:74:11.960 --> 00:74:15.520
control of their lives and realize that
there's something else besides that out there?
930
00:74:15.720 --> 00:74:21.960
I think that there is a blessing
and a curse that's happening in sports creative
931
00:74:23.319 --> 00:74:28.510
because of Covid nineteen and, believe
me, I do not wish anyone to
932
00:74:28.590 --> 00:74:31.670
lose income or their jobs or job
security or anything like that. So I'm
933
00:74:31.670 --> 00:74:35.270
not saying that that's a blessing.
What I'm the blessing part. Let's start
934
00:74:35.310 --> 00:74:39.100
with the curse. The curses that
people are losing their jobs and the people
935
00:74:39.140 --> 00:74:43.300
are losing income and people are,
in some cases losing benefits and things that
936
00:74:43.460 --> 00:74:46.979
they, you know, held dear
and worked hard for to maintain are going
937
00:74:47.060 --> 00:74:53.609
away because of something that they can't
control, and that sucks. Here's the
938
00:74:53.689 --> 00:75:00.090
blessing. Sports creatives and sports in
general have started to realize that they are
939
00:75:00.170 --> 00:75:06.010
not essential. And, and I
meet I mean that in the nicest way
940
00:75:06.090 --> 00:75:11.119
possible because I love sports man.
Sports have been my life, they've been
941
00:75:11.159 --> 00:75:15.319
a major part of your life,
they're all so many of my friends and
942
00:75:15.479 --> 00:75:18.479
people I would consider family. Sports
isn't a key, essential part of their
943
00:75:18.600 --> 00:75:26.989
lives. But in the grand scheme
of things, we don't need pro baseball
944
00:75:27.350 --> 00:75:32.789
like we need doctors and nurses and
teachers and ambulance drivers and all of the
945
00:75:33.109 --> 00:75:40.739
the essential folks that move our world
forward. We don't need sports like we
946
00:75:40.819 --> 00:75:45.060
need those people. So I think
what it's what's happened is it's given a
947
00:75:45.100 --> 00:75:48.659
lot of people the opportunity to take
a step back and realize. You know,
948
00:75:48.859 --> 00:75:51.810
I'll be the first to admit that
I was a cocky asshole and I
949
00:75:51.970 --> 00:75:57.130
thought I knew everything and I was
selfish and I thought that my work that
950
00:75:57.170 --> 00:76:00.529
I did at different parts of my
career were so important when they really weren't,
951
00:76:00.529 --> 00:76:04.760
all things considered right, maybe an
important and at a moment, or
952
00:76:04.800 --> 00:76:11.439
important to a sponsorship deal or important
to I don't know what adding value to
953
00:76:11.520 --> 00:76:16.880
a brand, but nothing is more
important than human life and we have been
954
00:76:16.960 --> 00:76:24.069
given an opportunity to identify that again. So maybe that blessing is now you've
955
00:76:24.109 --> 00:76:28.270
had you have the time to think
about what's really important to you and you
956
00:76:28.390 --> 00:76:31.710
have the time to think about how
the last however many years or months or
957
00:76:31.710 --> 00:76:36.819
whatever you've been in sports has affected
you personally, emotionally, physically, and
958
00:76:38.460 --> 00:76:42.659
you've been given the blessing of the
time to think about what else could be
959
00:76:43.060 --> 00:76:46.289
out there to make you happy.
So, like John said, like,
960
00:76:46.930 --> 00:76:51.170
even though I'm private on all my
social media accounts for my own personal reasons
961
00:76:51.369 --> 00:76:56.010
and for my own personal health,
if you message me or you add me
962
00:76:56.130 --> 00:77:01.119
or you find me on Linkedin,
I will happily hear your concerns and talk
963
00:77:01.279 --> 00:77:05.640
through your problems and your issues and
try and help you find whatever silver lining
964
00:77:05.680 --> 00:77:12.520
that's there in especially in this time
with covid but just know, I mean
965
00:77:13.800 --> 00:77:17.229
there's there's so much more out there
that is worth doing and is worth devoting
966
00:77:17.310 --> 00:77:24.390
your time to and your energy to
and your emotions to. That are essential.
967
00:77:25.789 --> 00:77:29.350
And you know, again, it's
hard to see that when you're on
968
00:77:29.390 --> 00:77:31.539
the inside. Man, it's really
is and it's easy to see it when
969
00:77:31.579 --> 00:77:35.180
you're on the outside. So it's
again I feel almost guilty saying these things
970
00:77:35.260 --> 00:77:42.380
and and drawing these kind of conclusions, but it's that's that's the reality for
971
00:77:42.460 --> 00:77:45.770
me now and I certainly you know, I want to be there to help
972
00:77:45.810 --> 00:77:49.050
folks who need to talk through think
through it and look for different opportunities and
973
00:77:50.850 --> 00:77:56.850
hopefully we can help provide some security
in thought at least in knowing that there's
974
00:77:56.890 --> 00:78:00.279
there's other stuff out there for you. There something that helps you get through
975
00:78:00.680 --> 00:78:09.760
your your dark period. As as
weird as it sounds, I've got a
976
00:78:09.840 --> 00:78:16.189
little twenty five pound cockapoo named Charlie
and you know, he we got him
977
00:78:17.949 --> 00:78:21.750
shortly after that really, really,
really the rough season and I was probably
978
00:78:21.909 --> 00:78:27.819
at my lowest while I was in
my career at that point, and the
979
00:78:28.100 --> 00:78:31.100
twenty or thirty minutes of just kind
of walking him and taking him out when
980
00:78:31.100 --> 00:78:38.180
I got home and disconnecting from the
struggles and the frustrations and everything that was
981
00:78:38.260 --> 00:78:44.970
feeling at the stadium helped level me
out, helped me transition into a place
982
00:78:45.010 --> 00:78:47.930
where I could sit at home and
not want to chug that half bottle of
983
00:78:48.010 --> 00:78:55.170
wine or not want to be shut
off from my community and my relationships and
984
00:78:55.289 --> 00:79:00.680
things like that. He inspired me
to feel good again and to care for
985
00:79:00.840 --> 00:79:04.199
something other than myself, which allowed
me to care for myself. So yeah,
986
00:79:04.239 --> 00:79:09.840
man, dogs, we don't deserve
them, that's for sure. He
987
00:79:10.109 --> 00:79:13.470
definitely brought that joy back in in
my life, at least at that point
988
00:79:13.470 --> 00:79:16.590
in time, and obviously inspired us
to get a second dog, who is
989
00:79:16.670 --> 00:79:20.710
also amazing. But you know,
Charlie's my guy, he's he I can
990
00:79:20.750 --> 00:79:24.899
look at them in the eye sometimes
and he knows that I'm not well,
991
00:79:25.100 --> 00:79:29.460
I'm not okay, and he does
something or see something that kind of pulls
992
00:79:29.500 --> 00:79:32.060
me out of it. So Charlie. Charlie was there for me for sure.
993
00:79:36.819 --> 00:79:41.529
If you can, if you could
take a few things away from that
994
00:79:41.770 --> 00:79:47.289
time in in your career that did
the audience listening today can can use as
995
00:79:47.329 --> 00:79:53.039
kind of something you could hold on
to and to learn from this experience.
996
00:79:54.159 --> 00:79:56.800
I'm sure you've put a lot of
thought into this. I know I have
997
00:79:56.920 --> 00:80:00.600
as well and did a lot of
things on my end to make sure that
998
00:80:00.880 --> 00:80:04.720
I wouldn't go through that again and
I wouldn't be the you know, the
999
00:80:05.359 --> 00:80:11.189
one thing my therapist told me that
that really stuck with me was, you
1000
00:80:11.270 --> 00:80:15.029
know, everybody's not going to like
you, and knowing you and I've been
1001
00:80:15.069 --> 00:80:17.229
your friend for a long time,
that's doesn't seem to always that that's not
1002
00:80:17.350 --> 00:80:19.949
necessarily any thing for you. That
was the thing for me. It's different
1003
00:80:19.989 --> 00:80:23.939
for everybody else. Right, you
told me that quite a bit of times.
1004
00:80:25.100 --> 00:80:29.140
But what are some things that the
young people in our industry can can
1005
00:80:29.220 --> 00:80:34.100
use to so they don't necessarily have
to hit these rock bottom spots here?
1006
00:80:34.180 --> 00:80:38.649
Yeah, I think I guess.
First and foremost is the fact that,
1007
00:80:38.930 --> 00:80:42.890
you know, we need more things
like this. We need an opportunity to
1008
00:80:42.930 --> 00:80:47.289
talk about the reality of the demands
of our roles in sports creative, and
1009
00:80:47.649 --> 00:80:53.199
I think that as young folks that
are hungry and I remember, you know,
1010
00:80:53.279 --> 00:80:56.760
my first four years in baseball,
I didn't care that I was at
1011
00:80:56.800 --> 00:81:00.000
the stadium for twelve, fourteen hours
a day. I didn't care that I
1012
00:81:00.039 --> 00:81:04.909
did it thirteen days in a row
for some homestands. But it's not realistic
1013
00:81:04.989 --> 00:81:10.430
and it's not normal and it's not
what is supposed to become your life.
1014
00:81:11.270 --> 00:81:15.430
So I think that there are are
parts of being a young, hungry professional,
1015
00:81:15.470 --> 00:81:18.220
no matter what you do, that
it's okay to bend a little bit.
1016
00:81:18.420 --> 00:81:24.340
But I think talking about the realities
as we're you know, the pressures
1017
00:81:24.460 --> 00:81:27.060
and the time that we have to
commit to it, we need to acknowledge
1018
00:81:27.060 --> 00:81:30.380
it and, you know, again, whether we're entry level, talking to
1019
00:81:30.539 --> 00:81:33.409
our managers or talking to our directors, if we're if we're leaders, if
1020
00:81:33.409 --> 00:81:38.449
we've been through it for a while, if we understand all of the demands
1021
00:81:38.489 --> 00:81:41.449
of the roles, we need to
also acknowledge that they're a real thing and
1022
00:81:41.489 --> 00:81:46.399
we need to normalize not being okay, because there are going to be points
1023
00:81:46.439 --> 00:81:49.199
in time where we're going to be
tired and broken down and we're going to
1024
00:81:49.760 --> 00:81:54.840
have have our own internal struggles and
just being able to talk about it openly
1025
00:81:54.920 --> 00:81:59.640
and honestly with our teams is is
so important that there were times where,
1026
00:81:59.760 --> 00:82:03.189
you know, like you mentioned,
I don't. I've never really worried about
1027
00:82:03.550 --> 00:82:08.789
if I've made somebody upset or uncomfortable
when I'm doing something that I believe in.
1028
00:82:09.109 --> 00:82:14.270
But I have brought these concerns to
my leaders. I brought these concerns
1029
00:82:14.310 --> 00:82:18.579
to human resources and you know,
there's there's the weight of well, this
1030
00:82:18.739 --> 00:82:21.100
is just what's expected of you.
You know, this is this is a
1031
00:82:21.180 --> 00:82:25.060
part of the deal. It's what
you signed up for. There's two hundred,
1032
00:82:25.100 --> 00:82:29.100
three hundred, four hundred other applicants
that want your job, so tough
1033
00:82:29.180 --> 00:82:32.569
shit. Well, that's that's not
necessarily okay and I think we all need
1034
00:82:32.609 --> 00:82:36.649
to take a half step back and
talk through these things. And you know,
1035
00:82:36.810 --> 00:82:44.439
I've had one bosson in my whole
career that offered me, I guess
1036
00:82:44.479 --> 00:82:48.000
like makeup weekend days like, and
it was stand they guy to work for
1037
00:82:48.239 --> 00:82:53.000
the Pistons in the Tigers. He
we would have a long week of events
1038
00:82:53.000 --> 00:82:55.560
or games or something coming up and
he would be the first one to come
1039
00:82:55.600 --> 00:82:58.520
over to the group of us and
say, okay, who wants Wednesday?
1040
00:82:58.670 --> 00:83:01.909
Who wants Thursday? Who wants Friday? He gave us weekends back because he
1041
00:83:01.949 --> 00:83:08.189
knew that we needed it and just
being able to have that conversation. I
1042
00:83:08.310 --> 00:83:12.510
appreciated getting one extra day, but
some days I didn't even take it,
1043
00:83:12.899 --> 00:83:16.140
but knowing that it was an option
and that it was okay to sometimes need
1044
00:83:16.220 --> 00:83:20.260
to take a day made all the
difference in the world. So again,
1045
00:83:20.300 --> 00:83:23.859
it's kind of step one, like
we got to be okay with talking about
1046
00:83:23.899 --> 00:83:28.649
this stuff and as leaders has as
veterans, we need to lead by example
1047
00:83:28.810 --> 00:83:31.649
and bring it up first and make
sure that we know that the people beneath
1048
00:83:31.649 --> 00:83:39.050
us feel safe and protected and that
they're allowed to feel burned down, because
1049
00:83:39.050 --> 00:83:45.079
it's a real thing. There's no
doubt there's a big there's a big problem
1050
00:83:45.119 --> 00:83:49.920
I see in and I can only
relate this to sports. Great, because
1051
00:83:49.920 --> 00:83:53.640
that's that's what I know, having
only been out of it for about a
1052
00:83:53.680 --> 00:83:59.029
year, but there's this must be
nice mentality that that we get, and
1053
00:83:59.109 --> 00:84:02.869
I think this is this is detrimental
to folks mental health right. So,
1054
00:84:03.470 --> 00:84:09.149
as part of the traveling team,
almost be nice you know, to take
1055
00:84:09.189 --> 00:84:13.619
a charter flight every weekend. It
must be nice to be able to go
1056
00:84:13.859 --> 00:84:17.220
and and and freely. That's because
you're a photographer and artist on the side,
1057
00:84:18.619 --> 00:84:23.460
and that's not healthy in any way. And I think that that brings
1058
00:84:23.500 --> 00:84:26.569
us, kind of brings us down, because it gets we get a guilt
1059
00:84:26.609 --> 00:84:30.649
complex. They're I'm sure you've dealt
with that before, just the fact that
1060
00:84:31.289 --> 00:84:35.850
must be nice to go on a
vacation. Yeah, like like we've lost
1061
00:84:35.970 --> 00:84:41.800
track of the importance of time to
ourselves, in time with our families.
1062
00:84:42.600 --> 00:84:45.920
I think that's a real, real
problem. I think right now we're feeling
1063
00:84:45.960 --> 00:84:48.880
it in Covid as well. Like, you know, you probably had had
1064
00:84:48.960 --> 00:84:53.390
of a have a baby to force
yourself to take some time, you know.
1065
00:84:53.590 --> 00:84:56.270
But you know, our lives are
very different right now, but we're
1066
00:84:56.270 --> 00:85:00.390
all kind of sitting at home thinking, well, why would I take vacation
1067
00:85:00.470 --> 00:85:01.989
and just sit at home? You
know, so I'm going to continue to
1068
00:85:02.029 --> 00:85:08.020
work, but it's not necessarily healthy. NOPE, Nope, you're completely right.
1069
00:85:08.140 --> 00:85:13.500
And let's and and let's start by
addressing flying on a team charter,
1070
00:85:14.220 --> 00:85:17.739
by passing TSA all, you know, staying in Nice hotels. Yes,
1071
00:85:17.899 --> 00:85:23.609
that is nice. It would be
nice for anybody, no matter what you're
1072
00:85:23.609 --> 00:85:26.609
doing. So let's just go ahead
and you know that's a given. If
1073
00:85:26.649 --> 00:85:30.489
you want to acknowledge that, great, but what's not nice is the sacrifices
1074
00:85:30.529 --> 00:85:36.720
that you have to make because you
are doing those things on a constant,
1075
00:85:36.720 --> 00:85:42.600
revolving door basis with very little breaks. You know, we work when you
1076
00:85:42.800 --> 00:85:44.560
we have to work the events,
when you have to work, nice to
1077
00:85:44.640 --> 00:85:47.159
weekends, but you're also expected to
work a normal forty hour work week.
1078
00:85:48.439 --> 00:85:54.590
You have nothing else you you don't
get a breather, you don't get time
1079
00:85:54.710 --> 00:85:58.430
to yourself, you don't get time
to your friends and family. So that
1080
00:85:58.789 --> 00:86:01.350
parts not nice. So we can
just cut that shit out right now.
1081
00:86:03.300 --> 00:86:05.979
But the guilt is a real thing, and I think you know, we
1082
00:86:06.020 --> 00:86:12.579
talked a little bit about the PTSD
of getting out of sports and transitioning to
1083
00:86:12.699 --> 00:86:17.689
something that is not that same schedule. You you start to feel guilty doing
1084
00:86:17.729 --> 00:86:23.090
anything but that grind because it's become
normal, and I think that goes back
1085
00:86:23.130 --> 00:86:25.689
to what I mentioned about how we
have to talk about these things and we
1086
00:86:25.770 --> 00:86:30.770
have to to denormalize those things.
That is even a words? Probably not,
1087
00:86:30.930 --> 00:86:32.319
but you know what I mean.
We have to we have to bring
1088
00:86:32.520 --> 00:86:35.319
things back to reality and acknowledge the
fact that the fact, you know,
1089
00:86:35.439 --> 00:86:40.880
our team just spent seventy eight hours
preparing for, you know, a home
1090
00:86:41.000 --> 00:86:44.880
game week or traveling on the road
or whatever it may be. Acknowledge the
1091
00:86:45.000 --> 00:86:47.750
reality of that. That's not normal. It might be a part of our
1092
00:86:47.789 --> 00:86:50.909
job, but we have to find
balance and we have to support balance.
1093
00:86:51.069 --> 00:86:57.270
And by offering your team grace days, we's calm grace days, which is
1094
00:86:57.350 --> 00:87:00.779
bullshit. It's not grace days,
it's I get the time back that I
1095
00:87:00.979 --> 00:87:04.579
need to have to recharge and bring
the best that I can to the next
1096
00:87:04.979 --> 00:87:09.500
period of time that we're, you
know, getting after it. So let's
1097
00:87:09.500 --> 00:87:13.100
stop calling that grace and let's just
make that reality. And it's okay.
1098
00:87:13.180 --> 00:87:17.770
K in the COVID era, we
all know that that normal business hours and
1099
00:87:17.930 --> 00:87:23.569
normal working conditions and offices and commuting
and traffic, all that stuff doesn't matter
1100
00:87:23.609 --> 00:87:29.569
anymore because most of us have been
able to continue our jobs professionally from the
1101
00:87:30.039 --> 00:87:33.239
quote unquote, comfort of our own
home at odd hours. We're all connected
1102
00:87:33.279 --> 00:87:36.680
all the time. We all have
most of us, as creatives, have
1103
00:87:38.319 --> 00:87:42.439
our computers or software, the things
that we need to get things done away
1104
00:87:42.479 --> 00:87:45.430
from the office of need bees.
So, like, let's let's be real
1105
00:87:45.470 --> 00:87:49.989
about that and let's give our teams
the opportunity to be their best in different
1106
00:87:50.029 --> 00:87:57.510
ways and let's evolved, because clearly
something's not working, because entry level people,
1107
00:87:57.909 --> 00:88:01.979
Middle Management, senior management folks are
breaking down. So, but,
1108
00:88:02.180 --> 00:88:06.899
you know, we talked about this
off the air or off the podcast,
1109
00:88:08.100 --> 00:88:10.779
but let's make sure to address the
fact that, like you and I,
1110
00:88:10.859 --> 00:88:14.810
are not in that business full time
anymore and we're not here to bash it
1111
00:88:14.970 --> 00:88:17.250
or we're not here to advocate that
everybody gets out. We're here to find
1112
00:88:17.369 --> 00:88:23.130
solutions and talk about the realities so
those who are still in it, or
1113
00:88:23.170 --> 00:88:26.050
if we have the opportunity to get
back in it at some point in time,
1114
00:88:26.449 --> 00:88:29.880
we can make it better. And
that's the whole reason why we're doing
1115
00:88:29.960 --> 00:88:32.439
this. Yeah, because because we're
not the only one, like, we're
1116
00:88:32.479 --> 00:88:35.680
not the only one who suffers from
this, like and because we are middle
1117
00:88:35.760 --> 00:88:42.189
management, you know, like everybody, everybody in the organization is dealing with
1118
00:88:42.390 --> 00:88:45.270
something from the top to the bottom, and I can assure you of that
1119
00:88:45.390 --> 00:88:50.710
based on conversations that I've had and
it's not easy. The pressures are immense
1120
00:88:51.829 --> 00:88:59.180
and and there's a misconception among our
friends and family that, oh, will
1121
00:88:59.539 --> 00:89:02.659
you have the offseason? That's great, you know, but like that they
1122
00:89:02.739 --> 00:89:08.140
running joke inside of sports is that
there is no offseason because they're truly isn't.
1123
00:89:08.140 --> 00:89:11.970
When you when you talk about the
offseason, I remember specifically after the
1124
00:89:12.090 --> 00:89:17.250
two thousand and seven deep into the
playoffs with the diamondbacks and and and losing
1125
00:89:17.449 --> 00:89:25.399
to the rockies and coming back to
work the next day and it was you.
1126
00:89:25.800 --> 00:89:30.119
You were literally right into pitching the
campaign for next season. There's no
1127
00:89:30.199 --> 00:89:33.960
time. Sales season starts at that
point and corporate partnerships is relying on you
1128
00:89:34.039 --> 00:89:39.149
as the creatives to have things ready. People don't understand. They think,
1129
00:89:39.189 --> 00:89:43.430
oh, we're off when the team's
off, and so breaking down some of
1130
00:89:43.430 --> 00:89:45.869
those misconceptions to say hey, you
know, this is this is how this
1131
00:89:46.029 --> 00:89:49.270
works. Family and friends, you
know we don't get to do all the
1132
00:89:49.390 --> 00:89:53.340
normal things. Yes, we may
not be traveling all the time, but
1133
00:89:53.619 --> 00:89:56.699
they are a lot of things that
we're doing because all of the offseason events,
1134
00:89:56.739 --> 00:90:00.420
they keep us super busy. We
talk about free agency and being on
1135
00:90:00.619 --> 00:90:06.020
call literally seven during NFL free agency
to have to go because of the social
1136
00:90:06.060 --> 00:90:11.689
media era, film the signings,
shoot the signings, make videos of the
1137
00:90:11.770 --> 00:90:15.170
signings and those sort of things.
So draft, how long does it take
1138
00:90:15.170 --> 00:90:17.489
to prepare us for the draft like
that? So there's a lot that goes
1139
00:90:17.529 --> 00:90:21.800
into it. That that that that
people who have not worked in sports maybe
1140
00:90:21.840 --> 00:90:27.680
don't understand. Those things contribute to, you know, the burnout that we
1141
00:90:27.760 --> 00:90:30.439
have. They're great fun part of
the job, but it's very intense and
1142
00:90:30.479 --> 00:90:34.319
it doesn't stop. Yeah, and
I mean you mentioned the you know,
1143
00:90:34.600 --> 00:90:38.390
all the different events and things that
we need to produce content for, but
1144
00:90:38.550 --> 00:90:41.909
we didn't we even talk about the
additional revenue streams of sports teams have that
1145
00:90:41.989 --> 00:90:46.789
are super important, which ask any
salesperson, whether it's tickets or or sponsorship.
1146
00:90:47.590 --> 00:90:54.859
Their offseason is their sales season and
their sales season becomes the creative services
1147
00:90:55.060 --> 00:90:58.300
portion of you know, we don't
like to talk about that, but we,
1148
00:90:59.100 --> 00:91:01.619
as creatives are there to create content, whether it's recapped, whether it's
1149
00:91:01.899 --> 00:91:05.409
sales pitches, whether it's all the
things that they need to do their jobs
1150
00:91:05.449 --> 00:91:10.409
effectively that they rely on us to
provide support for. So, you know,
1151
00:91:10.449 --> 00:91:12.970
not only are the content demands there, but all of a sudden somebody
1152
00:91:12.970 --> 00:91:17.529
else's season, their sales season,
becomes your season. So it's there's layers
1153
00:91:17.720 --> 00:91:24.760
of expectations and you know, as
we mentioned before, when the creative teams,
1154
00:91:24.880 --> 00:91:28.319
when each each, you know,
organization, built their own creative teams
1155
00:91:28.359 --> 00:91:31.399
to make assets for a variety of
different ways. Now you're no longer an
1156
00:91:31.439 --> 00:91:35.630
expense, you are an asset that
you can sell and you can build behind.
1157
00:91:35.789 --> 00:91:42.430
So the limit of them hands just
is is endless, because everybody needs
1158
00:91:42.430 --> 00:91:46.340
you for something and you know,
that's another thing that you know I mentioned.
1159
00:91:46.420 --> 00:91:49.779
We need to be able to talk
about the demands in the pressures and
1160
00:91:49.859 --> 00:91:55.460
normalize just the ability to express it
and talk about it and acknowledge it.
1161
00:91:55.819 --> 00:91:58.899
But also, as leaders, we
need to find ways to protect our team
1162
00:91:59.500 --> 00:92:06.970
and make sure that our bosses understand
what's realistic, what's doable, what you
1163
00:92:08.090 --> 00:92:13.010
know, explain, when we're asked
to do ten things on a weekend,
1164
00:92:15.090 --> 00:92:18.000
what we lose out on or what
the cost is if we have to try
1165
00:92:18.000 --> 00:92:21.640
and pull these things off. At
the dolphins in particular, you know we
1166
00:92:21.680 --> 00:92:26.520
would get asked to do things,
especially during the season, multiple events and
1167
00:92:26.680 --> 00:92:30.390
things on days that should have been
off days for the team or, you
1168
00:92:30.470 --> 00:92:33.270
know, like a Monday or or
a Saturday, and I would always ask
1169
00:92:33.550 --> 00:92:38.069
my hourly guys to do those things
first because I at least I knew they
1170
00:92:38.069 --> 00:92:41.029
were going to get paid for it. How many times did you ask your
1171
00:92:41.109 --> 00:92:45.899
salary guys for favors that like?
Why? What? Why would they want
1172
00:92:45.939 --> 00:92:47.300
to do if why would they want
to work those extra hours when they're not
1173
00:92:47.300 --> 00:92:51.300
getting anything extra for it? It's
just more time, more work, more,
1174
00:92:51.380 --> 00:92:54.899
ever more crap for them that they
have to do where they should be
1175
00:92:55.460 --> 00:92:58.890
able to catch a breather. So
there were instances where I was thankful that
1176
00:92:58.930 --> 00:93:00.810
I had hourly guys because at least
they'd be getting something for it. They
1177
00:93:00.850 --> 00:93:04.210
didn't want to do it either because
they had just come off working eighty hours
1178
00:93:04.210 --> 00:93:09.010
a week, but you know,
that was that was the consolation. Was
1179
00:93:09.050 --> 00:93:10.970
a will, at least I'm going
to get some more and pay for it.
1180
00:93:11.210 --> 00:93:15.520
So that's that's the other layer is
we need to be realistic instead expectations
1181
00:93:15.600 --> 00:93:17.319
and put up guard rails, not
only for ourselves, before our teams,
1182
00:93:17.399 --> 00:93:21.119
because we'll just keep getting used and
abused. And if the folks that are
1183
00:93:21.159 --> 00:93:28.229
asking for everything don't know. They're
just going to keep ask. It's not
1184
00:93:28.350 --> 00:93:30.949
necessarily their fault, you know,
they just they may not have been educated.
1185
00:93:31.149 --> 00:93:34.829
One thing we did do well was, you know, what's brief everyone
1186
00:93:35.750 --> 00:93:39.270
when we got the dolphins, that
we realize that this is having been in
1187
00:93:39.390 --> 00:93:42.539
sports now, for me, for, you know, fifteen years before I
1188
00:93:42.579 --> 00:93:45.659
got the dolphins, and in making
those changes and having serf come from an
1189
00:93:45.659 --> 00:93:49.180
agency background where it's very different,
right, and you know, in the
1190
00:93:49.220 --> 00:93:55.890
agency world you're paid in your paid
for the work in a lot of your
1191
00:93:55.930 --> 00:93:58.609
billing for hours and it's very different
when you come down. So there's a
1192
00:93:58.649 --> 00:94:01.090
lot of there's a lot of discussion
we had on how you change the model.
1193
00:94:02.329 --> 00:94:05.289
We haven't gotten to any I don't
think the sports world has gotten to
1194
00:94:05.289 --> 00:94:12.279
any final conclusions on what that looks
like. I don't know if they will.
1195
00:94:12.279 --> 00:94:15.199
I hope they will, but hopefully
at least we can start that conversation
1196
00:94:15.359 --> 00:94:20.920
to say hey, creative as a
special entity in game operations a special entity
1197
00:94:21.720 --> 00:94:28.510
and thus should be treated differently.
And you know, they're all each department
1198
00:94:28.630 --> 00:94:31.510
is special and each department has different
things that they you know, they need
1199
00:94:31.630 --> 00:94:38.029
to commit to and different extended hours
and you know whatever maybe, but the
1200
00:94:38.109 --> 00:94:42.420
fact that when you are a part
of a department that literally touches every other
1201
00:94:42.579 --> 00:94:45.340
part of the organization in some way, shape or form, you can't say
1202
00:94:45.420 --> 00:94:48.220
that about all the other departments.
You just you can't. I remember that
1203
00:94:48.300 --> 00:94:53.170
was one thing that when I first
got started in game operations with the dbacks.
1204
00:94:53.289 --> 00:94:56.409
I really love the fact that I
had meetings with corporate partnerships and,
1205
00:94:57.329 --> 00:95:01.170
you know, ticket sales and marketing
and executive and baseball. I mean every
1206
00:95:01.170 --> 00:95:04.649
we talked to everybody and we helped
do things, we help them achieve their
1207
00:95:04.729 --> 00:95:10.039
goals and objectives, and that was
thrilling to me because I got a very
1208
00:95:10.199 --> 00:95:14.079
broad understanding of the business of baseball
that I wouldn't have gotten if I was
1209
00:95:14.159 --> 00:95:17.319
in one of those departments that kind
of stayed in my silo. So it's
1210
00:95:17.359 --> 00:95:23.430
a blessing in that regard for sure. But it becomes a curse when everybody
1211
00:95:23.430 --> 00:95:27.430
else starts pushing you pass your the
limits of yourself on your team and there
1212
00:95:27.470 --> 00:95:30.989
are no guard rails and there is
nobody there to say I'm sorry, that
1213
00:95:30.109 --> 00:95:32.670
can't happen, or we don't we
don't have the bandwidth to do it.
1214
00:95:32.710 --> 00:95:35.619
It was. You know, we
got to a point where we just figure
1215
00:95:35.619 --> 00:95:41.060
it out, find a freelancer,
find somebody else, pull somebody off of
1216
00:95:41.180 --> 00:95:44.180
this split, you know, grab
a camera yourself, whatever it may be.
1217
00:95:45.180 --> 00:95:48.420
And you know, no, didn't
become an option. And I think
1218
00:95:48.899 --> 00:95:55.329
the sooner that we we are more
comfortable with the reality of the expectations,
1219
00:95:55.810 --> 00:95:59.890
the sooner we're going to get a
closer to a healthy work environment for everybody
1220
00:95:59.930 --> 00:96:02.289
and it. We're not there yet. We have al ways to go and
1221
00:96:02.649 --> 00:96:05.520
we can do that. We can
get there, but we got to get
1222
00:96:05.560 --> 00:96:10.640
real and the conversations need to start
happening now. It's right. It's right.
1223
00:96:12.720 --> 00:96:15.880
Last question here. If you could
go back and talk to yourself at
1224
00:96:15.920 --> 00:96:20.750
any plan in time during your Lovin
your journey, what would you tell the
1225
00:96:20.869 --> 00:96:28.829
younger will that you've learned from all
of this? That's tough question. I
1226
00:96:29.029 --> 00:96:33.699
want to say like kneejerk reaction is
to say like everything's going to be okay,
1227
00:96:34.140 --> 00:96:38.380
but I think that that would be
taking it a step or two too
1228
00:96:38.460 --> 00:96:43.220
far. I think I need to
say this shit doesn't matter that much.
1229
00:96:44.539 --> 00:96:49.250
It's it's not that big a deal, it's not that serious. You know,
1230
00:96:49.689 --> 00:96:54.210
that's the kind of summarizes the you're
not as great as you think you
1231
00:96:54.369 --> 00:96:57.170
are, the work that you're doing
is not as important as you think it
1232
00:96:57.289 --> 00:97:01.119
is. The deadline that has been
imposed upon you is not as crucial as
1233
00:97:01.199 --> 00:97:05.800
it's it's been given to you and
you know that's I can only control my
1234
00:97:05.840 --> 00:97:10.880
own thoughts and emotions. I can't
I can't make reality for other people.
1235
00:97:11.399 --> 00:97:16.189
But I think that sports in general, and sports creative particularly, would be
1236
00:97:16.229 --> 00:97:23.069
a much healthier place if we all
just fucking relaxed a little bit and didn't
1237
00:97:23.390 --> 00:97:30.460
put so much pressure on ourselves or
our staff or our organizations. People have
1238
00:97:30.579 --> 00:97:32.220
a job to do, people were
hired to do the things that they were
1239
00:97:32.260 --> 00:97:36.220
supposed to do, but at no
point in time should that ever take pressing
1240
00:97:36.300 --> 00:97:42.300
over your own physical, emotional and
mental health. So if we would all
1241
00:97:42.380 --> 00:97:45.930
just chill the fuck out a little
bit, I think things would have things
1242
00:97:45.970 --> 00:97:49.090
would go a lot better and we
would not have to have podcasts about mental
1243
00:97:49.130 --> 00:97:55.090
health and sports and we would not
have to have zoom meetings with sixty plus
1244
00:97:55.210 --> 00:98:00.199
people pouring their hearts out about how
broken they are. You know, this
1245
00:98:00.359 --> 00:98:03.560
isn't a John Willie problem or a
will post him as problem or you know,
1246
00:98:03.640 --> 00:98:05.840
there's not like a small handful of
us that are dealing with this.
1247
00:98:05.960 --> 00:98:11.479
This is an industry problem and and
I think that if I could have allowed
1248
00:98:11.560 --> 00:98:15.189
myself to just relax a little bit, it may never have gone to the
1249
00:98:15.229 --> 00:98:18.069
point that it got to. Well
said, well said. Thank you,
1250
00:98:18.149 --> 00:98:21.909
my friend. I appreciate to coming
and pouring your heart out for us.
1251
00:98:23.510 --> 00:98:27.029
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. I love you, man, and
1252
00:98:27.699 --> 00:98:30.140
I'm still thrilled that you're doing this, because it's something that needs to happen,
1253
00:98:30.340 --> 00:98:34.579
even if individuals just have somebody else
to relate to and know that like
1254
00:98:35.899 --> 00:98:41.180
and somebody who you know who spent
eleven years in the business, who was
1255
00:98:41.420 --> 00:98:45.369
directing sign and a football game,
is able to break down and pass out
1256
00:98:45.489 --> 00:98:48.250
in his chair because things got that
bad. You know, if I have
1257
00:98:48.289 --> 00:98:54.970
a rough day like I'm going to
be okay too. So we appreciate you
1258
00:98:55.130 --> 00:99:00.760
for doing this and if I can, you know, give anybody context or
1259
00:99:00.000 --> 00:99:03.279
you just need somebody to listen to, please don't has day to reach out.
1260
00:99:04.560 --> 00:99:16.510
Awesome, it's buddy. Hey,
thanks for sticking around until the end
1261
00:99:16.550 --> 00:99:20.710
here. If you enjoyed this podcast
in want to leave a review and could
1262
00:99:20.710 --> 00:99:29.619
do me a huge favor please visit
rate this podcastcom slash creative af to leave
1263
00:99:29.659 --> 00:99:31.739
a quick note and, as always, if you want to hit me up
1264
00:99:31.779 --> 00:99:38.930
on twitter, it's at creative af
or at Jo n Willey, and you
1265
00:99:39.010 --> 00:99:44.210
can also find me on instagram at
Willie art and at Jay Willie photo.
1266
00:99:45.090 --> 00:99:48.329
I really appreciate you all and please
take care of yourself and we'll see you
1267
00:99:48.529 --> 00:99:54.159
Friday for some meditation in next week
with our guests Kyle Joesus, who was
1268
00:99:54.239 --> 00:99:58.239
actually one of my interns when I
was at the dbacks and then went on
1269
00:99:58.359 --> 00:100:01.840
to a really fun stint with the
San Francisco Forty niners and really helped build
1270
00:100:01.880 --> 00:100:06.079
their rand moving into the new stadium, but at the same time he really
1271
00:100:06.189 --> 00:100:13.390
struggled his entire life with crippling depression
and anxiety. We're going to dive in
1272
00:100:13.510 --> 00:100:15.550
with Kyle next week, but for
now, have a great rest of the
1273
00:100:15.630 --> 00:100:17.989
week and a great weekend and we'll
talk soon.
