A Deep Dive Through The Round Window with Flora Jamieson

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Hi friends! Welcome back to Cracked with Siobhan Aris.
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In episode 16, I'm joined by Flora Jameson of The Round Window.
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Flora is a stained glass artist who takes on a wide variety of stained glass commissions, as well as her own contemporary designs.
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Her personal style is inspired by graphic design, the natural world, organic forms, and geometric patterns.
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Color palettes are bold yet simple, lead lines are meticulous and purposeful and patterns are all hand-painted with the texture of the brushstroke telling part of the story flora is also a freelance glass painter for stained glass studios in the uk and further abroad specializing in reproduction of victorian bird rondelles she seeks to be as faithful to the traditional techniques as possible having studied many beautiful original examples over the past 18 years she has worked on several church windows and in conjunction with other stained glass studios, painting replicas of damaged pieces.
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Today, Flora is getting technical for all of us who want to know the details of her glass painting wizardry, and even has some book suggestions, the same ones she used to learn actually, for those of us that don't have access to an in-person glass painting class.
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We'll also take a deep dive into her double life as an avid outdoor swimmer and author of her book, My wild swimming book.
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And where does Studio Ghibli fit into all of this?
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Join me to find out as I crack it all wide open.
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Hi, Flora.
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How are you today?
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I'm good.
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Thanks, Siobhan.
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How are you?
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Well, My husband has a breakthrough case of COVID.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah, we saw COVID in the house too.
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My daughter's got it at the moment.
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Are you serious?
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Yeah, yeah.
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She just came down with it on, I don't know, like yesterday or day before yesterday.
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She's okay.
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She is, okay.
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She's okay.
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How's your husband?
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He's pretty sick.
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Oh, really?
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What do you mean a breakthrough
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case?
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He's vaccinated.
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Oh, right.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I guess, you know, obviously it probably would have been way worse if he wasn't vaccinated, but he's like, he's pretty sick.
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He's quarantined.
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And my daughter and I have tested were negative, but I'm still keeping her out of school just to be on the safe side, even though multiple medical professionals have told me she can go to school.
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She's negative.
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And I just, I don't know.
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I feel nervous.
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I don't want to be that parent.
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Like if something happens and suddenly she is positive, you know?
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No,
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I think it's, I think it's absolutely the sensible thing to do.
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Like everyone has to take their own level of risk assessment in these situations, don't they?
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And I'm really sorry to hear your husband's really suffering with it.
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I know.
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I
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know.
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Are you having to take him up little trays of food, like be his butler at the moment?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And the thing is, is that I consider myself a very warm person.
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Like I, I like to care for things.
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I have pets and I have a daughter and I, I, I have lots of plants.
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I don't know, but there's something about whenever my husband gets sick that I turn into like the cold I mean, I worked through it, but I'm like, you need to figure it out.
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You need to figure it out.
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You need to get better.
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I don't want to hear it.
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He's like yesterday, he was like, I have COVID.
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Like, can you at least give me?
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And I was like, okay, okay.
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But yeah, I got like a little like rolly cart and I slid it up to the door and I, you know, set him out his meals and his lemon water and his, his reishi mushroom supplement that I'm giving him and his vitamin D and all that.
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And, you know, Give a little knock and then skedaddle.
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I'm digging deep.
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I am really trying to take care of him.
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Yeah, no, I have similar scenes really for my daughter.
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I'm sort of getting her the nicest little snacks that she might fancy eating.
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And then, I don't know, COVID does not seem to affect the appetite at all.
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So everything I take up, it just gets put outside the door, completely devoured half an hour later.
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She is just hungry.
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Can
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she taste?
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No, no.
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So maybe that's why.
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She's just desperately trying to get some flavor.
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This is the time you got to slide in all the things that normally she won't eat, you know?
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Yeah.
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How old is she?
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14.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So she's past that, like, I won't eat broccoli stage anyway.
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You'd think, wouldn't you?
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You would think.
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She really would just ideally live on a diet of just white food, like rice, pasta, bread, chamomile, at least.
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like white she likes soft cheese um yeah anything that's white she likes it
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my gosh well that's still my favorite kind of all the beige foods are still my favorite too yeah well flora i have to say that when i posted on instagram that i was going to interview you i had a tremendous overwhelming response from the community that you are they are so excited that you're coming on the podcast and that they love your work and
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thank
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you there's such an interest in curiosity and love of painted glass because we really don't get to see it very often.
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Yeah I think it's unusual.
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There seems to be a growing interest in it having you know for many years it's always been kind of considered to be more like the restoration side of things.
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I think people are now starting to discover that you can use it in a very contemporary way and And it's very versatile.
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You know, there's a lot of different things you can do with it, a lot of different effects you can achieve.
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So I think it's definitely getting a bit of resurgence and interest.
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And where did you learn how to do it?
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I, well, it's quite a long story.
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How far back do you want me to go?
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All the way to the beginning.
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I got time.
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So I start, well, I mean, I won't go right back to the beginning of how I got into stay bars in the first place, but I can if you want me to.
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But I've made it just start from where I started learning to paint which was when I was I had a job in a stained glass workshop in London and I don't know if you know but in London there's a huge tradition of like domestic stained glass from the sort of Victorian era so that's kind of late 19th century early 20th century and you know there's there's huge sort of terraces of these kind of Victorian Edwardian houses and they generally will have stained glass in the front door and in windows throughout the house and often they'll have these like little painted circular, I call them roundels.
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I think in the States you call them rondels maybe.
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And
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they usually will feature like a bird or flowers or a countryside scene or something.
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And so when I worked in London, there was always, you know, we always needed to have either new ones of those going into new windows that were being made to replace ones that had been lost over the years or, you know, just paint a copy of one that's been damaged because of course they're in the front door.
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So, you know, they're forever getting, you know, tennis ball through them or someone tried to break in and it gets damaged so I was working in a stained glass studio when we had somebody who was working there who was doing the painting and he would paint those roundels he'd been doing it for you know for years and years and years he was a really experienced painter and then he suddenly kind of left one day and went off to do his own thing and we were sort of short of a painter and I had only been there maybe I don't know 18 months at the time not very long I was just working on the bench doing lead work and so the boss sort of looked at and he said right does anybody know does anyone know how to paint here and I just sort of volunteered and said yeah I've done you know I've done arts I know one end of a paintbrush from another I'll give it a go so he sort of gave me a couple of books you know old quite old instruction books on glass painting and he just sort of said there you go take those home for the weekend here's some glass here's some paint see what you can do and just literally threw me in at the deep end and that was it so I just had to kind of learn self-taught really and by studying the original roundels that were coming in so we were getting lots of these victorian bird roundels to come in i was then having to copy um so it was a case of having a little bit of knowledge from the books and then looking at what had been done previously you know 100 years ago how they'd achieved the effects how that you know how they've built up the layers of paint and color um and just sort of piecing it all together so a very informal process.
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Well, that works.
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It worked out very well.
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Yeah, it did.
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And I mean, I think, you know, whenever I, you know, whenever I, I still, you know, I still do that sort of work now.
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And whenever I get a really beautiful original roundel to copy, you know, there's always stuff I see then.
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I'm always learning, you know, there's always, there'll be a kind of particular shade of paint that I've not seen before or a technique of mark making on it that I've not seen before.
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I'm like, oh, that's nice.
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I'm going to try and, you know, how do they, how have they done that?
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And sort of unpick it all and work out how it's been achieved.
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And it majority of your work is i'm seeing a lot of floral and i'm seeing a lot of these victorian birds or i believe on your website you just called them popular british birds
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yeah well sometimes it's a mix the i mean the original victorian ones they often weren't any particular species of bird they were quite quite of them sort of quite cartoon like they're kind of they were done sometimes you know because they'll be doing a whole street of you know hundreds of houses each with two birds in the front door one for each door panel um so you know some poor glass painter was just knocking them out.
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And so they were quite loose, quite quickly done.
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And often, you know, they had these slightly angry looking faces or they were slightly chubby looking or they were, you know, very sort of quite a distinctive style, I would say.
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So sometimes it's a case of copying that very specific Victorian style.
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And sometimes, you know, more recently, you know, if people are getting new windows commissioned, they want a specific breed of bird, like they've got a favourite, you know, you know, like they love robins or blue tits or, you know, generally the sort of classic British birds are the ones that are the most popular.
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So then it's a case of trying to do a sort of version of that sort of Victorian style, but with that particular breed of bird.
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And so I've sort of built up a few that I regularly get asked to do that I've kind of designed myself to look authentic.
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Okay.
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And were you into painting and drawing before you kind of were thrown into this?
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yeah I did art up until A-level which is kind of you know up to the age of 18 basically at school and then I didn't carry on with it I decided to I wanted to do media studies actually I wanted to go into doing like magazine or TV production or something so that's what I did at university I did media studies degree and then when I came out of university and was looking for work I realized it maybe wasn't the right environment for me it was very very high pressure long hours, super competitive.
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And I was like, I don't think that's me.
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And so I just took a sort of part-time job in a design studio as an administrator.
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And that was really nice.
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I was working there.
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It was a really interesting job.
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But everybody else was doing artistic, creative stuff.
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And I was doing all the admin.
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And that was like, oh, this is not fun.
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I want to do what they're doing.
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They're doing fun stuff.
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So that's when I thought, right, I need to get back to doing something creative and artistic.
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And so that's when I discovered stained glass.
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Amazing.
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And I see that you do lead.
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Do you do copper foil as well?
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No, I just do lead.
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Okay.
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Yeah, I did try to copper foil when I first started out doing stained glass, but I just preferred lead work.
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And there's more demand for that in the UK, I think.
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And can you walk us through, is it possible to walk us through the process of the stages of painted glass?
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Because I know that there is some kiln work in there.
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There's some silver staining.
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Yeah,
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so basically when you are painting, like say I was going to do, you know, sort of traditional piece of stained glass painting, you have to, the paints and the enamels and the silver stain will fire at slightly different temperatures.
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So you have to do a separate firing for each one, starting with the one that fires at the hottest temperature, which is the paint.
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And that is, that comes in kind of a powder form.
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I think Royce is probably the most well-known brand of stained glass paint.
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And so it comes in little tubs of powder and then you mix it up on a glass palette with whatever medium you want to use.
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Some people use water, some people use oil, some people use vinegar.
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I tend to use just water and I will add a few drops of an additive called propylene glycol which is a it's basically a food additive but what it does is it just slows the drying time down because water just especially in hot weather um the paint will dry out really quickly so I had a few drops of that just to kind of keep it workable for longer um and you add a little bit of gum arabic as well which is another little powdered um sorry is my chair creaking and being really noisy or is it oh no I'm just aware that it's really creaking um sorry you can edit that bit out um yeah so uh you add a bit of gum arabic which is um like a it's like a powdered sort of sticky i don't really know what it's made of actually but it's i guess it's the kind of stuff that they use on like envelope seals you know we lick it but it's like the powder version of that so you add a little pinch of that and that basically helps the paint flow and also it helps it stick to the glass it gives it a bit of um adhesion to the glass so that it just is nice to work with and you're less likely to sort of because until the paint is fired on the glass it's not permanent so it just sort of sits on the surface of the glass and so you paint your trace lines which is like the kind of the outlines of your design I guess so you would do those first and And then once it's dried, if there's any little wobbles or accidents or mistakes, you can kind of just scratch them off because the paint, although it's stuck to the glass, it's not, you know, you can still scratch it off.
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So you can kind of tidy things up a bit.
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And then you, I mean, some people do it all in one.
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They do, they'll use different mediums and do the firing and the trace lines and the shading all together.
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You know, they'll do a water or an oil, maybe an oil I think they do oil first and then water over the top of it.
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I don't.
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I just use water and I did mine sort of separate firings.
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So I'll do...
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A trace line firing, and that gets put in the kiln and fired up to 650 centigrade.
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I don't know what that is, Fahrenheit.
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I know in the States you use Fahrenheit, don't you?
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We do.
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650 centigrade.
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And that takes a couple of hours to get up to temperature.
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And then you have to just leave it to cool down slowly so that the glass anneals properly as it cools.
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Otherwise, you might get heat cracks in the glass.
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And then once that's cooled down, so that's usually kind of, that's sort of day's work, really.
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waiting for the kit you know doing the painting work in the kiln heating up cooling down and then the next day I'll do my shading firing which again it's the same kind of paint you just apply it with a sort of soft washy brush so you'll sort of thin it down more and apply it and you'll use I don't know if you if you've ever heard of a badger brush which is a big I should have brought them with me to show you but anyway it's a kind of a brush and it's made from badger hair do you have badgers in the states you do
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yeah i'm gonna say yes and afterwards they're gonna message
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me and be like we don't have badgers i think so um so it's made from the hair of a badger which is this kind of quite stiff but soft hair and you so when you put your shading on you'll use your badger brush which is a dry brush and you sort of whisk it over the surface of the paint and that kind of fans it out and creates this really nice matte even surface that you can then use to sort of scratch into and remove the paint to sort of bring out the highlights and let the light come through the glass so that's how you end up getting kind of 3d effects and different textures and you can sort of draw patterns into it um so that was your that would be your shading firing so then that'll go back in the kiln again um and then if you're if you want to add color to your glass at this point you might use glass enamels vitreous enamels um which um are Again, they're sort of metal oxides ground up and they go on this kind of, again, they're like a powder that you mix with water, a little bit of gum arabic.
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And again, you'll use those in a similar way.
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You'll sort of paint them on and use a badger brush to kind of fan them out, make them nice and even.
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And then you have to kind of clean them up and tidy them up and scrub off the bits where you've gone over the edges, if you know what I mean.
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So you put it on where you want it.
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And then when you fan it out, it kind of spreads everywhere.
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So then you spend ages cleaning it all up.
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So I sometimes post videos me doing that on instagram because it's kind of satisfying sort of cleaning it all up and making the edges all nice and neat um and then that so that will then go back in the kiln and that's always quite a fun process because the enamels go on this kind of chalky dusty color that is kind of opaque you can't see any light coming through it but then you fire those um they're a little bit less a little bit lower than the paint they're usually about sort of 580 to 600 degrees um and when they come out the it's changed from this sort of chalky dark colour to this beautiful translucent colour so that's really satisfying part of the process and then finally you might add silver stain which I think I remember I was listening to your podcast with Hannah Gregory yesterday actually and I think she mentioned it which is this kind of magical alchemy process of applying the silver stain and you really you do get to grips with over the years and you get used to a particular brand and what temperature and how thick to apply it but you really are working blind because it looks completely different when you put it on to how it comes out of the kiln and it sort of changes the molecular structure of the glass so that it's this beautiful golden colour so it's not unlike the enamels which sort of sit on the surface of the glass the silver stain actually penetrates the glass and creates this beautiful golden yellow colour so that gets used a lot in like church stain glass you'll see you know sort of halos and, I don't know, some sunbursts and all the details of robes is often done with this beautiful silver stain to get that lovely gold colour.
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And also I use that on the roundels that I paint.
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They often have a sort of yellow border around the edge, which is done with silver stain.
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And that is the last firing, which is the lowest temperature one, which is about 540 degrees centigrade.
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And that's pretty much it.
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Okay.
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And what kind of glass do you
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use?
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It varies depending on what I'm doing.
00:19:55.444 --> 00:20:06.835
If I'm doing traditional work, I'll use a sort of modern reproduction Victorian glass, so something like English Muffle or just a cathedral, you know, a standard cathedral glass like Wismach, something like that.
00:20:08.375 --> 00:20:14.682
Or sometimes it's, you know, if it's church work, it will be handmade mouth-blown glass, so Lambert's glass or something like that.
00:20:14.721 --> 00:20:16.583
It just varies from job to job, really.
00:20:17.344 --> 00:20:17.423
Okay.
00:20:17.423 --> 00:20:17.723
Okay.
00:20:18.285 --> 00:20:22.609
And what percentage of your work would be considered restoration work?
00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:25.051
And what percentage would you say is your own personal work?
00:20:26.374 --> 00:20:29.376
It's probably about 50-50, I think.
00:20:30.478 --> 00:20:31.259
This year it has been.
00:20:31.318 --> 00:20:35.182
It does vary from year to year, depending on, I don't know.
00:20:35.242 --> 00:20:36.483
I think it's interesting, actually.
00:20:36.503 --> 00:20:46.654
I think with social media, what can happen and what seems to be happening at the moment is I will do, you know, I'll get a bit of like Victorian restoration work in.
00:20:46.674 --> 00:21:20.759
So then that's what I'm posting on my social media because that's what I'm working on so then that's what people tend to see so then I tend to get more inquiries for that sort of work and so then I'm doing more restoration work more traditional work um and so yeah I seem to have done a lot of traditional work lately this year and much less of my own contemporary work so I might just have to throw a couple of old um you know some some other past work up into my Instagram to try and get some more some more you know because it feels like you can get you know you can get sent down a path because of the algorithm and because of what people see, that's what they're interested in.
00:21:20.779 --> 00:21:25.861
So yeah, it's interesting, but definitely it seems to be a lot of traditional work this year.
00:21:27.713 --> 00:21:33.038
On your website, your work is split up into different categories.
00:21:33.098 --> 00:21:37.623
You have contemporary, traditional, glass painting, and church.
00:21:38.262 --> 00:21:42.747
Can you explain to us what the difference is between contemporary and traditional?
00:21:44.387 --> 00:21:48.112
Okay, I think it varies from person to person.
00:21:48.132 --> 00:22:01.223
I brought mine up in that way because sometimes, certainly with the contemporary work, it's where I'm using glass that is like really, really brightly coloured.
00:22:01.263 --> 00:22:05.188
It's more kind of graphic.
00:22:05.228 --> 00:22:13.817
So the painting will be less realistic and three-dimensional, more like screen print.
00:22:14.258 --> 00:22:16.720
So it's just simple trace lines.
00:22:16.901 --> 00:22:19.042
I don't use much shading when I'm doing contemporary work.
00:22:19.103 --> 00:22:24.228
It's much more like, I don't know, like pop art kind of look to it, if you know what I mean.
00:22:24.268 --> 00:22:26.210
So it's just the colour and the black lines.
00:22:27.632 --> 00:22:29.614
much more contrast between those two things.
00:22:30.335 --> 00:22:35.180
And the traditional work is more of that sort of Victorian era.
00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:36.480
So it's softer colours.
00:22:36.520 --> 00:22:48.755
The painting is going to be more kind of subtle, lots of shading, looser, softer lines, not so hard, not such hard contrast.
00:22:49.655 --> 00:22:55.382
And obviously sometimes there's some commissions that sort of fall in between those two things.
00:22:55.442 --> 00:22:59.306
So, you know, it's like a spectrum, I guess, you You've got, you know, different ends.
00:22:59.346 --> 00:23:04.632
You've got a really simple, bold, punchy contemporary piece at one end.
00:23:04.711 --> 00:23:10.156
And at the other end, you've got, you know, really beautiful, soft colours, loads of shading, loads of texture, loads of detail.
00:23:10.217 --> 00:23:11.898
And then, you know, there's a sliding scale.
00:23:11.919 --> 00:23:13.060
There's all sorts of bits in the middle.
00:23:13.141 --> 00:23:19.386
So sometimes it can be quite hard actually when I'm categorising things on my website to know where to post it.
00:23:19.426 --> 00:23:26.255
But generally speaking, yeah, the contemporary work is stuff that I've designed myself.
00:23:27.536 --> 00:23:31.700
And often the traditional work is my own designs as well, but they're usually for period properties.
00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:33.742
So they'd be more Victorian in feel.
00:23:34.542 --> 00:23:35.565
I have a favorite one.
00:23:35.585 --> 00:23:39.729
It is in your contemporary category.
00:23:39.749 --> 00:23:41.550
I love bear and rabbit.
00:23:42.352 --> 00:23:42.451
Oh.
00:23:44.794 --> 00:23:45.816
Do you have a favorite?
00:23:47.738 --> 00:23:49.078
I do, yes.
00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:57.488
I think probably in my, actually, I think it's probably in my traditional, but I'm not entirely sure where I put it.
00:23:57.488 --> 00:24:33.266
but it was for a house in Ireland, in Dublin, an island that I made a few years ago and it was this beautiful, the theme was for a sort of garden themed panel and there's like a pond at the bottom and then there's some sort of plants growing around the pond and then as you go up there's some insects, there's a dragonfly and a butterfly and then up the top is an apple tree sort of with the boughs kind of tumbling down and then hidden in the undergrowth at the back behind the plant there's some teeny tiny sort of 15 millimeter high Studio Ghibli characters.
00:24:33.286 --> 00:24:34.307
Do you know Studio Ghibli?
00:24:34.827 --> 00:24:36.950
Like Totoro and Ponyo.
00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:37.990
Oh, yes.
00:24:38.352 --> 00:24:40.012
Yeah, so Japanese animations.
00:24:40.933 --> 00:24:42.256
So the client requested those.
00:24:42.296 --> 00:24:47.602
Him and his children were really into that series of animations at the time.
00:24:47.622 --> 00:24:51.685
And he said, could you hide some of the characters in there as a surprise for the kids to find?
00:24:51.726 --> 00:24:53.667
You know, so that I won't tell them they're there.
00:24:53.708 --> 00:24:55.009
They'll just one day, they'll just see them.
00:24:55.369 --> 00:24:57.071
You know, it was just such a lovely idea.
00:24:57.092 --> 00:25:28.904
And I've always always love you know that's you get that a lot in traditional stained glass actually where there's little details going on in the background of the main you know especially in church windows you're that's a very sort of um it's a theme of a lot of windows where you've got your main story going on in the front and then the background there'll be other stuff happening that you wouldn't necessarily see it on first glance and I think that's a really lovely thing to include with the stained glass window especially one that you see a lot and you see it every day you know some somewhere down the line you suddenly notice something you never knew was there and I think that's a really nice feature.
00:25:29.445 --> 00:25:30.346
That's really sweet.
00:25:30.406 --> 00:25:31.928
That's really precious.
00:25:34.069 --> 00:25:36.071
My daughter loves those movies.
00:25:36.412 --> 00:25:37.833
Yeah, they're amazing, aren't they?
00:25:38.093 --> 00:25:38.834
They really are.
00:25:40.434 --> 00:25:44.618
There's such a love of nature in them and of the countryside.
00:25:44.659 --> 00:25:46.200
And there's such an innocence to them.
00:25:46.441 --> 00:25:51.424
And I love the fact there's a whole kind of, like there's a real respect for the older generation in them.
00:25:52.025 --> 00:26:00.089
It's almost like the opposite of, I don't know, maybe Disney's better now than it used to be, but it always used to be like, the old woman was always the baddie, you know, the witch.
00:26:00.490 --> 00:26:02.614
And I think Ghibli is the opposite.
00:26:02.634 --> 00:26:05.258
Like the older women are like the wise ones.
00:26:05.278 --> 00:26:06.619
They're the ones that know everything.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:07.721
They're the ones that save the day.
00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:08.883
You know, I think it's fantastic.
00:26:09.324 --> 00:26:10.144
You're so right.
00:26:11.767 --> 00:26:23.595
What's the name of the one with the girl who is like living in the, She's in a car with her parents and they drive into
00:26:23.935 --> 00:26:24.355
the woods.
00:26:24.916 --> 00:26:25.718
Is it Spirited Away?
00:26:26.398 --> 00:26:29.983
Where she goes into that amazing kind of crazy bathhouse.
00:26:30.704 --> 00:26:30.765
Yes.
00:26:31.085 --> 00:26:31.325
Yeah.
00:26:32.145 --> 00:26:32.707
That one.
00:26:33.147 --> 00:26:33.407
Yeah.
00:26:33.448 --> 00:26:34.730
That is amazing, isn't it?
00:26:34.750 --> 00:26:37.493
It's so good.
00:26:37.534 --> 00:26:43.961
If any of you guys have children, stop what you're doing and watch Spirited Away right now with them.
00:26:44.041 --> 00:26:44.963
It is amazing.
00:26:45.003 --> 00:26:46.065
Yeah.
00:26:46.085 --> 00:26:47.626
I mean, it's dark as well in places.
00:26:47.686 --> 00:26:49.470
It's quite scary and dark, but it's also...
00:26:50.018 --> 00:26:53.221
like beautifully animated and it's just incredible
00:26:53.800 --> 00:27:10.836
it is incredible and it is dark you're right but it's just enough it's just enough darkness to where I feel like it pushed my daughter is six it pushes the boundaries a little bit of like what she's comfortable with but you know it's like one night of scary dreams not like a month full of you know
00:27:10.855 --> 00:27:11.757
yeah
00:27:11.777 --> 00:27:12.237
I think it's
00:27:12.277 --> 00:27:23.146
good some of them some of their films are darker than others I think um like Ponyo and Totoro are really sort of they're really sweet You know, there's nothing really to be afraid of in either of those.
00:27:23.186 --> 00:27:28.853
And then some of the Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke and some of those other ones that, you know, they kind of get more.
00:27:30.055 --> 00:27:35.180
But like you say, it's the sort of darkness that children crave in a way that they're fascinated by.
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:37.702
They're not really necessarily scared by it because it's an animation.
00:27:37.762 --> 00:27:41.166
So it doesn't feel real, but they're kind of fascinated by it.
00:27:41.227 --> 00:27:42.528
I think it's, yeah, it's beautiful.
00:27:42.768 --> 00:27:43.148
Amazing.
00:27:43.869 --> 00:27:44.609
I think it's healthy.
00:27:45.371 --> 00:27:45.611
Yeah.
00:27:46.451 --> 00:27:49.935
So again, we don't have a lot of people doing glass painting here.
00:27:49.935 --> 00:27:50.611
in the States.
00:27:52.034 --> 00:27:59.463
Do you have any advice for artists, glass artists that would like to get into it that maybe don't have a teacher that lives close by?
00:27:59.483 --> 00:27:59.604
Yeah, I
00:28:02.607 --> 00:28:05.111
think the hardest thing is having access to a kiln.
00:28:05.152 --> 00:28:08.296
You know, that's the biggest hurdle, really.
00:28:08.336 --> 00:28:11.700
And there isn't really anything satisfactory.
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:19.170
You know, there are cold-fired paints that you can do in the oven, but I tried them years ago, like when I was first starting.
00:28:19.190 --> 00:29:44.660
And unless they've been improved incredibly in the last 20 years they're just kind of you might as well paint on glass with nail varnish you know they're kind of sticky and nasty and it's not like real glass paint so I think the best thing you could do is if you can get access to a kiln if you've got a friendly I mean you can use a ceramics kiln and you can get quite small kilns you can get second-hand kilns so it's not impossible to to find a kiln that you could use and just it's a case of playing and practicing and I mean there are some books I can send you links to that are good reference books but for the sort of technical side of things like what temperatures to fire at and what to mix them with because I think that's a really useful thing to have is a sort of technical guidebook so you can sort of use that as you know to get you going and then the rest of it is just practicing and playing really and trying out different brushes trying out different techniques and And just not being afraid to make a mistake because actually some of the most beautiful glass painting is really loose and fluid and full of life because really what you're doing with the paint, especially if you're working with sort of, you know, trace paint and shading paint on coloured glass, you're putting the paint on the glass and then you're removing it to reveal the colour.
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:46.580
So you're almost working in reverse.
00:29:46.621 --> 00:29:51.204
You're using the light as your colour almost and the paint is sort of modifying the light.
00:29:52.193 --> 00:30:08.548
And so, you know, sometimes some of those beautiful windows are where someone's just let rip, you know, and they've just played, they've had to go, they've put the paint on and they've used interesting tools to remove it and get these great marks and dynamic lines and real energy about it.
00:30:10.269 --> 00:30:54.159
You know, there's so many, I mean, I think one of the, if you wanted to, if someone wanted to look at a stained glass artist whose work is really very much of that style where it's kind of loosened painterly and you're really kind of getting this light and energy Patrick Rentians is kind of like the godfather of modern British stained glass and he's really sadly passed away recently but his work is just stunning I mean it's just beautiful there's so much movement and energy and life in it so I would definitely recommend checking that out about how you can create amazing Just amazing work using very simple mark making.
00:30:55.617 --> 00:31:01.903
And I noticed too on your Instagram that you paint on a light box, right?
00:31:02.304 --> 00:31:02.564
Yeah,
00:31:02.723 --> 00:31:02.903
yeah.
00:31:03.325 --> 00:31:05.165
What kind of paper is it that you're using?
00:31:07.667 --> 00:31:09.450
What, underneath the glass?
00:31:10.050 --> 00:31:10.750
When you're tracing.
00:31:11.251 --> 00:31:12.673
Yeah, just tracing paper, yeah.
00:31:13.272 --> 00:31:14.795
Just normal tracing paper, yeah.
00:31:15.275 --> 00:31:16.175
Okay.
00:31:16.195 --> 00:31:16.415
Yeah.
00:31:17.057 --> 00:31:18.478
And you can get that in really big rolls?
00:31:19.137 --> 00:31:19.459
Yes,
00:31:19.739 --> 00:31:20.559
yeah, yeah.
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:25.584
I mean, yeah, I get these huge rolls of it that come in this kind of manner.
00:31:25.584 --> 00:31:26.164
how long it is.
00:31:27.006 --> 00:31:28.167
It's huge, yeah.
00:31:28.188 --> 00:31:29.309
It looks like it was really big.
00:31:32.596 --> 00:31:33.636
Yeah.
00:31:33.696 --> 00:31:35.579
You can just do it on A4 tracing paper.
00:31:36.101 --> 00:31:40.729
Sometimes I just use the cheap and cheerful tracing paper from the hardware store.
00:31:40.808 --> 00:31:41.309
It's fine.
00:31:43.673 --> 00:31:46.238
Do you have any glass hacks?
00:31:46.625 --> 00:31:51.931
Well, I was thinking about this actually.
00:31:53.511 --> 00:31:55.794
Funnily enough, this is a bit of a scoop actually.
00:31:55.874 --> 00:32:03.441
I'm just in the process of developing an online course with, do you know, have you heard of Domestika?
00:32:04.201 --> 00:32:04.441
Yes.
00:32:04.842 --> 00:32:05.541
Domestika, yeah.
00:32:05.602 --> 00:32:10.165
So they approached me recently and they asked me if I'd be interested in doing a course with them.
00:32:10.946 --> 00:32:14.829
So I'm developing, in fact, we're filming in a couple of weeks time.
00:32:14.849 --> 00:33:45.881
So we're going to do a beginners guide to stained glass to start with and then we'll see how things go from there but so I actually have put all my good hacks and tips that I've picked up over the last sort of 25 years in that course so the first tip would be to sign up that course when it goes live and I'll be putting more about that on my Instagram and on my website in the really when it comes to pricing just don't undercharge because it's so easy to do it's so easy to look at the piece of stained glass you've made and think oh you know that looks about that much but you've got to remember that you know you're you know most people are just a one-man band they're just working on their own so not only are they the manager they're also the person making the stained glass they're also the designer they're also they probably do their own website they do their own social media they do their own admin they do their own accounts they do the post office run um and those are like eight jobs you know that you're just doing one person on your own so when you look at that piece of stained glass you have to remember that's eight people have been involved in that piece of work it's not just you know it's not just the labor there's a lot more going on and then there's your overheads and your materials and and it's really really easy to to to forget when you're making stuff to to charge fairly and to charge properly for what it's worth
00:33:46.690 --> 00:34:01.614
In previous episodes, actually, I'm thinking of Hannah Hastings episode specifically, we spoke about when you know it's time to sell your work because she and I were at opposite ends of the spectrum.
00:34:02.375 --> 00:34:09.746
I think I've sold everything I've ever made, which I don't think is what my advice would be to anybody.
00:34:10.246 --> 00:34:20.458
But she waited like, I want to say she did stained glass for I don't remember what she said, like 10 years, 15 years or something before she sold anything.
00:34:20.498 --> 00:34:22.641
Do you have an opinion about that?
00:34:23.581 --> 00:34:23.862
Yeah,
00:34:24.262 --> 00:34:24.483
yeah.
00:34:25.302 --> 00:34:26.123
Yeah, it's interesting.
00:34:27.385 --> 00:34:32.570
I think, yeah, because you're constantly learning as well, you're constantly improving.
00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:42.458
I think as an artist, that's what part of being an artist is, as well as always looking at the piece of work you've just done and seeing the faults in it, seeing the flaws in it, seeing the bits you would do differently.
00:34:42.938 --> 00:35:02.338
And I don't know if you ever get to a stage where you you're not doing that I don't know anybody even like you know people at the top of their game who don't look at work and find faults in it um so it's when you know that you've got to a place where yes there's bits you do differently but it's it's not it's not wrong
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:03.300
you know
00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:04.382
what I mean
00:35:04.833 --> 00:35:06.097
Yeah, I agree.
00:35:06.117 --> 00:35:09.525
I'm going to switch gears a little bit.
00:35:09.545 --> 00:35:14.579
I saw in your stories you were making patterns on Procreate.
00:35:15.777 --> 00:35:19.681
Do you plan on or have you done anything with those?
00:35:19.721 --> 00:35:37.737
No, that was kind of a lockdown little experiment really, because I just bought an iPad and I was hoping to sort of learn to design stained glass on it and get better at using it as part of the process.
00:35:38.197 --> 00:35:41.260
And I thought, well, I'm just going to get used to using it.
00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:43.742
And we've literally just gone into lockdown in the UK.
00:35:43.782 --> 00:35:45.744
So I kind of had a bit of free time on it.
00:35:45.744 --> 00:36:32.954
my hands although not really but I guess you know suddenly there's two children to home educate and still work to do you know I still had lots of jobs to get on with but so I just was using it as an opportunity to experiment and get used to how everything worked and I'd always wanted to make repeat patterns because I think that it would be really useful especially for doing large scale windows for sort of border pieces and for backgrounds it would be really nice to be able to just sort of design one little corner and then do a repeat pattern of that so you haven't got you know you just um save yourself a bit of workload there so it was an experiment but I really enjoyed doing it um and I did think I might do something with them but um I haven't
00:36:32.974 --> 00:36:46.128
a lot of artists do have different streams of income with their work and you have a whole other Instagram and a whole other project my secret your double life Yes.
00:36:48.231 --> 00:36:52.755
You have a book and it's called The Little Wild Swimming Book.
00:36:53.416 --> 00:36:54.016
That's right, yeah.
00:36:54.496 --> 00:36:55.778
And I wanna read this real quick.
00:36:57.139 --> 00:37:09.773
It says, an introduction to wild swimming with practical advice, safety tips and health benefits, as well as inspiring quotes, useful resources and beautiful illustrations.
00:37:10.353 --> 00:37:15.159
This guide is perfect for those wishing to dip their toe into the glorious pursuit of wild swimming.
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:19.065
in lakes, rivers, pools, waterfalls, and the sea.
00:37:19.105 --> 00:37:31.503
Written by wild swimming enthusiast Flora Jamison and with Gemma Kuhman's charming illustrations throughout, this is a great gift for both the novice wild swimmer or experienced dipper.
00:37:33.346 --> 00:37:34.786
It's a really beautiful book.
00:37:34.827 --> 00:37:35.708
Can you tell us about it?
00:37:36.248 --> 00:37:36.429
Thank you.
00:37:36.489 --> 00:37:38.851
That sounded so nice the way you read it.
00:37:39.130 --> 00:37:41.152
I need to have that saved somewhere.
00:37:41.193 --> 00:37:42.313
It sounded so professional.
00:37:46.197 --> 00:37:46.476
Yes.
00:37:46.617 --> 00:37:47.637
Sorry, what was your question?
00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:49.820
How did it come about?
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:50.840
Oh, how did it come about?
00:37:51.461 --> 00:37:57.246
So I have always enjoyed swimming outdoors in the sea and in rivers.
00:37:57.726 --> 00:38:40.951
And I think things have really taken off, certainly in the UK and I think everywhere else actually over the last couple of years it's become more and more um popular swimming outdoors uh and i think about five years ago i was would just occasionally if i went for a swim in the sea i'd post it on my instagram um and i you know if i was in a river i'd you know just pop it up on my instagram and so i think a few people sort of noticed that i was doing that and a friend of mine um who at the time was organizing women's retreats asked me if i would do a talk about it at one of her retreats because it was held in this really beautiful kind of It's not really a campsite.
00:38:40.971 --> 00:38:43.072
There's like chalets and cabins.
00:38:43.333 --> 00:38:48.117
It's a sort of holiday site that's really super eco-friendly and lovely in Wales.
00:38:48.918 --> 00:38:49.958
And there's a river there.
00:38:50.018 --> 00:38:54.842
So she said, you know, after you do the talk at the retreat, we could all go down to the river and have a swim.
00:38:54.862 --> 00:38:57.304
And I thought, oh, that would be really lovely.
00:38:57.364 --> 00:38:58.266
I would love to do that.
00:38:58.726 --> 00:39:09.775
And then I kind of thought, well, I really should do some health and safety advice because I didn't want to lead kind of 30 women into the river and then, you know, only 15 came back out again.
00:39:09.775 --> 00:39:34.431
so I was I was thinking oh I need to do like a I know just an A4 list of do's and don'ts and then I was like oh that's maybe a bit boring actually maybe I could put some illustrations and some nice quotes on it and it sort of kind of mushroomed from there and I thought, oh, yeah, I could have some nice little anecdotes and quotes and some illustrations.
00:39:34.532 --> 00:39:37.094
And I was too busy to do my own illustrations.
00:39:37.173 --> 00:39:45.342
And actually, at the time, I had just discovered Gemma's work online and really fell in love with it and really connected with it.
00:39:45.362 --> 00:39:46.882
It sort of really spoke to me.
00:39:46.922 --> 00:39:47.764
There was something about it.
00:39:47.844 --> 00:39:50.985
I think a lot of people, when they see it, they feel the same way.
00:39:51.005 --> 00:39:53.929
It sort of takes you back to your childhood.
00:39:54.009 --> 00:40:28.826
It's a very kind of wholesome, innocent, lovely warm feel to her illustrations and I thought they would be perfect for the book so I sent her a really cheeky email saying I've got this little idea for a little pamphlet booklet that I'm doing for this retreat would you be interested in doing some illustrations for it and you know perhaps we could sell some copies of the book afterwards and that would help cover our costs a bit and I was fully expecting her to turn around and say no go away I felt too busy But she said yes.
00:40:28.945 --> 00:40:34.050
And she did the most beautiful illustrations and the most wonderful front cover, which I still love now.
00:40:34.070 --> 00:40:35.952
I absolutely love what she did for it.
00:40:35.992 --> 00:40:37.034
She did such a beautiful job.
00:40:37.934 --> 00:40:42.619
And so I had these booklets and I gave them out to all the people at the retreat.
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:53.050
So it had health and safety advice and some inspiring quotes and just like the benefits, the sort of mental and physical benefits of swimming outdoors in cold water.
00:40:53.092 --> 00:42:14.474
Anyway, there's all sorts in there and lots of lovely quotes and her illustrations and so I gave those to all the attendees at the retreat which was a success everyone came out the river nobody died it was fine and then we sold the rest of the copies from the print run um and it just took off it just I was not expecting it at all like people would message me saying oh I've got a shop I'd love to sell copies in my shop can I you know have some copies and it just kind of picked up and so I was like okay I'll do another print run did another print run that sold out did another one and then it just uh sort of tipped over for a while and I think it it was must have been beginning of 2020 I was I was doing it all through my just through my stained glass Instagram account I thought oh maybe I should really just give it its own separate account because I think you know sometimes it I think with the algorithm coming in it was it was making things very difficult for it to know where to pigeonhole me swapping between swimming content and stained glass content and all my engagement was just taking this huge nosedive and I thought I'm going to have to separate them so I created its own little Instagram account and then that suddenly took off I don't know I think in the UK particularly during the whole 2020 lockdown thing, I think a lot of people turned to outdoor swimming as a way of getting outside as soon as we could, you know, once we were out of the sort of hard lockdown that we first went into that summer.
00:42:14.813 --> 00:42:25.286
It just went, you know, people were, I think it's a sort of mental health thing to connect, reconnect with nature as a way of being able to see people outside, you know, as a health thing.
00:42:25.327 --> 00:42:27.208
I think it just really took off.
00:42:27.329 --> 00:42:36.246
And so it's, yeah, again, it's another huge sort of resurgence in in the book um over the last year so yeah it's been it's been amazing really
00:42:37.090 --> 00:42:40.556
And you did the printing yourself or did you have a publisher?
00:42:40.576 --> 00:42:40.615
No,
00:42:41.958 --> 00:42:43.780
it was all, yeah, it was all done ourselves.
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:44.663
We didn't have a publisher.
00:42:44.782 --> 00:42:47.708
So we just organized it with the printers and they, they print it for us.
00:42:48.489 --> 00:42:48.829
Okay.
00:42:49.271 --> 00:42:50.632
And Gemma's work is incredible.
00:42:50.652 --> 00:42:52.536
I looked at her Instagram and it really does.
00:42:52.556 --> 00:42:56.382
I mean, beautiful work, but did you consider doing the illustrations yourself?
00:42:57.905 --> 00:43:01.070
I didn't at the time because it was, it was quite a short deadline.
00:43:01.110 --> 00:43:10.514
And I, I knew that if I did the illustrations myself, I would get so bogged down in those that I wouldn't be able to write the content.
00:43:10.996 --> 00:43:20.679
And I just, sometimes it's quite good to separate out, you know, it's a bit like trying to, rub your stomach and pat your head, do that.
00:43:20.739 --> 00:43:24.643
You know, when you try and rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time, they're two completely different tasks.
00:43:24.722 --> 00:43:29.306
And if you try and do everything yourself, you'll end up not doing either of them to the best ability.
00:43:29.347 --> 00:43:39.536
So I think I came to conclusion fairly quickly that Gemma would do the most useful illustrations and then I could concentrate on putting the book together.
00:43:40.757 --> 00:43:44.840
And are you getting lots of people who are like, I've never swam outside before.
00:43:44.900 --> 00:43:46.222
It's changed my life.
00:43:46.961 --> 00:43:47.282
Yes.
00:43:47.503 --> 00:43:47.782
Yeah.
00:43:47.842 --> 00:44:52.492
I get some amazing feedback actually it's quite it's quite moving people have emailed me to say that they bought a copy for their mum and she had just recovered from cancer and they took their mum swimming and she said it was you know that it was just their real bonding time together and now they go regularly and you know I think just like the most amazing heartwarming stories of how it's brought people together and how it's helped people's mental health and I don't sort of I don't say that it needs to be really you know you don't need to be in the water for long you don't need to I mean I think to be honest sometimes I say there's nothing wrong with just going for a paddle like you have to be really careful when you're swimming outdoors because you know uh with especially with the sea if the if the tides too you know if the waves are too strong or the tides coming in or going out you have to be really really careful um so sometimes you go to the sea and you think I'm gonna have a swim and it's not safe to swim and you think well I'm just gonna have a paddle but you still get those mental health benefits you still get that lovely feeling being outdoors you still get the um you I think that the ocean is very healing anyway, just to sit and stare at it.
00:44:52.552 --> 00:44:56.056
And just to dip your toes in sometimes is enough to give you a little lift.
00:44:56.615 --> 00:44:57.077
Yes, get
00:44:57.097 --> 00:44:58.378
those negative ions.
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:00.239
Exactly, exactly.
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.762
So I think it's always to be done safely.
00:45:02.943 --> 00:45:05.306
There's never any kind of competition involved.
00:45:05.346 --> 00:45:08.168
It's never like who can stay in the longest or who can swim the furthest.
00:45:08.228 --> 00:45:13.054
It's just, you know, enjoy it and think that every swim is a gift.
00:45:13.094 --> 00:45:17.297
You know, you can't always expect to be able to swim because the weather and the conditions are against you.
00:45:17.338 --> 00:45:22.018
And I think that's a really good reminder to not take it for granted that you'll always be able to get in.
00:45:22.099 --> 00:45:25.297
Sometimes it's, you know, you just have to wait a week until the weather's better.
00:45:26.114 --> 00:45:28.056
And such a good metaphor for life too.
00:45:28.496 --> 00:45:29.157
Yeah, exactly.
00:45:29.358 --> 00:45:29.518
Yeah.
00:45:30.380 --> 00:45:34.925
I'm sure you're much better versed on the health benefits of swimming outside in cold water.
00:45:34.965 --> 00:45:37.869
But the first thing that came to my mind was inflammation.
00:45:37.909 --> 00:45:40.253
It's good for inflammation, the cold.
00:45:40.793 --> 00:45:41.094
Yes.
00:45:41.373 --> 00:45:41.635
Yes.
00:45:41.715 --> 00:45:43.797
I mean, it's good for your circulation generally.
00:45:44.057 --> 00:45:50.445
It sort of makes your circulation more efficient because your body's having to get used to sort of work a bit harder, you know, to get the blood pumping around.
00:45:51.847 --> 00:45:55.873
But yeah, there's various, I mean, I think it's really good for your immune system as well generally.
00:45:56.449 --> 00:46:32.442
I think it gives your immune system a boost I'm not quite sure of the science behind it and I'm sure somebody will correct me on this but I think it's along the lines of when you get into very cold water your body goes into not so much a shock mode but in a kind of preparatory mode so it's very cold and your body goes okay this might be serious I'm gonna make some more white blood cells just in case just in case they're needed so your body's at this up in this sort of standby mode in case it needs to fight an infection or it needs to, you know, in case something bad happens.
00:46:33.083 --> 00:46:44.215
So that you've got this sort of extra, I might be wrong about this, I'm not a scientist, but this is the way I like to think of it, is that you're in this sort of standby mode in case of, you know, danger.
00:46:44.255 --> 00:46:50.001
And so obviously you're not in danger because you're going to swim safely and you're not going to stay in too long and you're not going to get too cold.
00:46:50.981 --> 00:46:54.505
So you get all those good benefits of your body sort of being in the standby mode.
00:46:54.666 --> 00:47:04.402
And so that when you do have a cold or, you know, you start to feel unwell, your body already has those, the immune system's already good and strong and ready for action.
00:47:05.684 --> 00:47:16.021
So quite often I've had, you know, I'll go to the sea, you know, feeling like I'm coming down with a cold, you know, when you get that scratchy feeling at the back of your throat and your eyes are kind of sore and itchy and you just feel like I've got a cold on the way.
00:47:16.603 --> 00:47:19.367
And I've gone to the sea and I've had a swim and that's it, it's gone.
00:47:20.514 --> 00:47:21.135
Interesting.
00:47:21.315 --> 00:47:24.157
Yeah.
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:59.590
your brain it also um battles it also combats depression it's really good for depression as well that's right yeah
00:48:00.190 --> 00:48:22.257
yeah exactly and also there's a sort of mild um like pain killing effect as well i think from the the endorphins so people who have like long-term chronic pain conditions um they found that you know exposure to cold water will sort of dial down that kind of pain uh for a few hours after they've swum so i think some people use it as a the pain relief method as well.
00:48:23.425 --> 00:48:24.126
That makes sense.
00:48:24.766 --> 00:48:33.235
Because especially when you feel that like adrenaline, like when your body is like something's happening right now, I'm going to like, I'm going to dial it up to 10, just in case we're really in trouble here.
00:48:33.735 --> 00:48:42.503
That endorphin, a lot of time you don't, you know, you cut yourself or something happens when you're in the middle of like an actual traumatic situation and you have no idea, you can't feel it until.
00:48:42.603 --> 00:48:43.422
Yeah.
00:48:43.443 --> 00:48:43.643
Yeah.
00:48:43.724 --> 00:48:44.043
Exactly.
00:48:44.244 --> 00:48:53.172
I mean, that, that goes right back to glass again, because sometimes you can cut yourself with a piece of glass and you, you just don't feel it, you know, only when you look down and there's like, where is that coming from?
00:48:53.331 --> 00:48:53.391
Why?
00:48:53.391 --> 00:48:53.893
I
00:48:53.913 --> 00:49:00.760
don't remember using all this red paint.
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:02.762
Well, tell us where we can find this book.
00:49:02.782 --> 00:49:05.445
Do you have some stockists or just on your website?
00:49:06.005 --> 00:49:10.110
Yeah, I have stockists, a variety of stockists, mainly in the UK.
00:49:10.130 --> 00:49:11.311
I don't have any in the States yet.
00:49:11.371 --> 00:49:13.934
So if anyone is interested, talk me a line.
00:49:15.456 --> 00:49:15.876
But I have it.
00:49:16.336 --> 00:49:17.637
Yeah, you can find it.
00:49:18.137 --> 00:49:19.920
I sell it online and I ship worldwide.
00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:24.726
So if you go via my Instagram, you you will be able to find a link to it.
00:49:24.865 --> 00:49:25.626
It's on my website, actually.
00:49:25.646 --> 00:49:26.407
I think there's a page.
00:49:26.469 --> 00:49:28.331
I think that I just sell it through my website.
00:49:28.351 --> 00:49:34.380
I haven't set up a separate website for it just because I didn't realize how popular it was going to be.
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.603
If I'd have known, I probably would have done.
00:49:36.682 --> 00:49:38.226
But anyway, it is what it is.
00:49:39.367 --> 00:49:42.632
And what is your website for those of our listeners who don't have an Instagram?
00:49:43.273 --> 00:49:51.344
Okay, so it's flora.jameson.com and Jameson is spelt J-A-M-I-E-S-O-N.
00:49:52.641 --> 00:49:54.003
Okay, perfect.
00:49:54.543 --> 00:49:55.123
We'll see you there.
00:49:55.164 --> 00:49:56.224
Yeah.
00:49:57.306 --> 00:50:07.175
I also noticed that you are using that like quilted paper that we're all given when we buy glass sheets.
00:50:07.894 --> 00:50:14.641
You're using that as wrapping paper, which I also thought was such an eco-friendly, sweet way to wrap your books.
00:50:15.661 --> 00:50:16.543
Yeah, that's so funny.
00:50:17.023 --> 00:50:19.485
Yeah, of course, all the glass people would know that that's what I'm doing.
00:50:19.505 --> 00:50:21.867
That's so funny because whenever I send the books to...
00:50:22.608 --> 00:50:51.938
stockists and especially new stockists they'll always say to me oh I love that paper where do you get it from it's amazing that's exactly what I'm looking for and I'm like um it comes from my other job um so yeah so and also yeah exactly all the packing materials I get because whenever I get glass delivered of course it comes you know in huge boxes with all those sort of cornstarch packing puffs so that all gets reused for sending out books to stockists so it's good yes it's very symbiotic relationship
00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:52.943
you Yes.
00:50:53.387 --> 00:50:53.728
Yes.
00:50:53.990 --> 00:50:54.757
I love that.
00:50:56.001 --> 00:51:00.067
I'm going to take this opportunity to actually shout out one of our listeners.
00:51:00.106 --> 00:51:03.152
She posted something the other day, which I thought was brilliant.
00:51:03.211 --> 00:51:04.572
I reposted it in my stories.
00:51:05.134 --> 00:51:10.541
But at Ebb and Flow Glass, she saves all of her copper foil tape backing.
00:51:10.581 --> 00:51:12.905
And then she was just saving it.
00:51:12.945 --> 00:51:16.588
She wanted to use it as packing material, but she didn't know exactly how it was going to work out.
00:51:16.630 --> 00:51:19.112
So she was just holding on to all these bags full.
00:51:19.673 --> 00:51:25.802
And then she said that at Optic Mojo Glass had posted that she curled them like a ribbon.
00:51:26.242 --> 00:51:26.661
Oh yeah.
00:51:27.382 --> 00:51:37.672
And now she uses, she has all of it and she uses packing material and she showed in this reel that she made what it looks like and it's fluffy and it's perfect.
00:51:37.871 --> 00:51:41.094
It's such a great earth friendly way to reuse that stuff.
00:51:41.135 --> 00:51:42.715
So I want everybody to
00:51:43.516 --> 00:51:43.797
do that.
00:51:44.177 --> 00:51:47.780
A lot of copper foil to make a box.
00:51:49.541 --> 00:51:57.132
It's true, but how satisfying to save it for like a few months or whatever, and then get to use it all at once and be like every scrap.
00:51:57.172 --> 00:51:57.373
Bye.
00:51:57.414 --> 00:51:58.418
Yeah.
00:51:59.786 --> 00:52:00.409
That's genius.
00:52:00.469 --> 00:52:01.032
I love that idea.
00:52:01.554 --> 00:52:02.219
Yeah, me too.
00:52:04.514 --> 00:52:06.675
Do you have any favorite artists?
00:52:08.436 --> 00:52:11.539
Do you mean stained glass artists or generally?
00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:16.423
It can be, but this is just like wide open, any kind of artist.
00:52:18.686 --> 00:52:25.192
Oh God, I mean, it's difficult to, I have so many, it would be hard to know where to begin.
00:52:25.231 --> 00:52:42.327
And certainly I have obviously a huge appreciation for some of those victims arts and crafts era artists whose work that I aspire to with my more traditional work.
00:52:42.387 --> 00:52:47.833
So like William Morris, Edward Burne-Jones, Boise, Charles Boise.
00:52:48.775 --> 00:52:51.818
I don't know if they are so well known in the States.
00:52:51.838 --> 00:53:01.007
I think William, everyone knows William Morris, but that sort of era, I guess it's kind of late 19th century, early 20th century in the UK.
00:53:01.088 --> 00:53:08.615
And it's all very much based patterns and designs based around nature.
00:53:08.657 --> 00:53:21.110
And they're very often sort of symmetrical and quite intricately detailed patterns based on flowers, animals, leaves, trees.
00:53:22.972 --> 00:53:32.041
It's difficult to explain, but that is something that I am particularly drawn to and aspire to in my more traditional work.
00:53:33.722 --> 00:53:35.398
Contemporary-wise, Um...
00:53:37.153 --> 00:53:44.619
Yeah, I mean, I just stick to stained glass, I think, because otherwise it's just too much of a wide field.
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:49.465
There's some amazing stained glass artists.
00:53:49.485 --> 00:53:55.269
Actually, years and years ago, this was probably 10 years ago, maybe when I first started blogging.
00:53:55.289 --> 00:54:00.914
This is going back pre-Instagram, pre-social media when everyone just had blogs.
00:54:01.715 --> 00:54:03.396
And my children were really young at the time.
00:54:03.456 --> 00:55:38.918
And I think there was one of those things where you do something every day for a month and it was called Every Day in May and you could choose what you did so you could either do a new drawing every day or you could make a new piece of stained glass every day or whatever you wanted to do and my children were really young and I thought there's no way I'm going to be able to do a drawing or make something every day because I'm just too busy so I thought what I'll do is I'll just discover a new stained glass artist every day and just write about them on my blog and that was such a brilliant thing it introduced me to so many amazing artists most of whom I still follow and admire and you know now I see them know them on Instagram and you know in many cases I'm friends with them so that was a really brilliant thing to do and I think your podcast you'll probably find the same thing actually it just introduces you to a whole new world of stained glass artists and different styles different techniques so yeah some of the people that I discovered like years and years ago when I did that and I still really appreciate their work now so Judith Schechter she's amazing I think maybe somebody else mentioned her the other week on your podcast um her work is just mind-blowingly technically beautiful um and again sort of dark as well you know it's it's it's quite scary you know some of her pieces there's a lot of darkness but there's also a lot of sweetness there you know there's these amazing sort of floral explosions that she does with all that plated flashed glass where she builds up these layers of colors and patterns absolutely um I mean, there's no other word for it.
00:55:38.938 --> 00:55:39.539
It's incredible.
00:55:40.219 --> 00:55:43.722
So she's a huge, huge inspiration.
00:55:44.184 --> 00:55:48.668
You know, just bow down to her, to her superiority.
00:55:48.708 --> 00:55:52.813
Another artist that I discovered, I really, really like her work.
00:55:52.972 --> 00:55:54.755
And I don't think she's that widely known.
00:55:54.775 --> 00:55:56.076
Again, I think she's American.
00:55:56.115 --> 00:56:00.240
She's called Kate Gakenheimer.
00:56:01.081 --> 00:56:11.833
And she also works in flash glass and she makes these amazing sort of circular, roundels of plated patterned flash glass.
00:56:13.554 --> 00:56:22.905
I'll have to send you links to her Instagram so you can see, but almost like sort of kaleidoscopic patterns, beautiful, really contemporary work, really amazing.
00:56:22.925 --> 00:56:26.849
And then who else?
00:56:27.829 --> 00:56:31.313
Stuart Lowe, he's a British stained glass artist.
00:56:31.393 --> 00:56:51.135
His work is really fun, contemporary, naive style, like almost like, sometimes like, but like really, really beautifully executed, sort of birds and flowers, bright colours, very kind of loose, sketchy mark making.
00:56:51.155 --> 00:57:05.010
He does these beautiful little panels with like a little woodland scene with a tiny little house and some waves and a moon, just really, just very illustrative, I suppose is the best way to describe it.
00:57:05.911 --> 00:57:06.791
His work's amazing.
00:57:06.831 --> 00:57:17.523
And also another stained glass artist whose work is really illustrative is a guy called Franz Wesselman, who I think he's an illustrator, but he sort of branched out into stained glass.
00:57:18.485 --> 00:57:19.306
Really beautiful work.
00:57:19.425 --> 00:57:22.909
Really, again, lovely line work.
00:57:23.311 --> 00:57:26.134
Lovely, sort of a lot of humor in there.
00:57:26.673 --> 00:57:29.398
Yeah, but I'll send you links to all of those so you can check them out.
00:57:29.998 --> 00:57:32.380
Please, and I'll include those links in the show notes.
00:57:34.338 --> 00:57:35.202
for everybody else.
00:57:35.242 --> 00:57:39.567
Do you have any five to 10 year goals?
00:57:43.074 --> 00:57:46.378
Yeah, I mean, it's been such a funny couple of years.
00:57:46.458 --> 00:57:50.583
It's hard to really plan anything.
00:57:50.623 --> 00:58:00.416
And I've never really been much one for setting goals and having a sort of linear plan of where things are going to go.
00:58:00.456 --> 00:58:10.710
I'm much more kind of, I just sort of wait and see what comes in and you know, just kind of like whatever comes my way, I just think, oh, that's an interesting opportunity.
00:58:10.751 --> 00:58:12.092
Yeah, let's do that, you know.
00:58:13.713 --> 00:58:17.217
But I guess I would love to do more collaborations with artists.
00:58:17.817 --> 00:58:24.802
I've done a couple over the years with, you know, other artists from other disciplines and we've, you know, made stained glass pieces together.
00:58:24.882 --> 00:59:06.090
So I did a collaboration with an illustrator called Vicky Turner and she designed a series of sort of, I don't even see them on my website, sort of loop-shaped pieces panels and we did those back in 2016 I think and at the time I don't think I saw anyone else doing panels in that shape that kind of pill shape you know what I mean so the straight side curve at the top and the bottom and I see that shape a lot now that's really taken off so I mean I don't know if that came from us originally from our collaboration we did but maybe who knows and it was so so popular I mean we had a It almost became too popular.
00:59:06.130 --> 00:59:09.786
I couldn't make them quick enough for the demand.
00:59:09.806 --> 00:59:22.275
And in the end, you get to a point where you think, well, you really, you don't want to just keep making the same thing again and again and again, because then you're on a production line and it doesn't leave any space for developing new ideas.
00:59:23.097 --> 00:59:27.603
So in the end, we kind of, we parked it for a bit with the idea that we'd come back to it at some point.
00:59:27.682 --> 00:59:29.826
And we keep, every year we say, yeah, let's do some more.
00:59:29.985 --> 00:59:32.608
And then both of us are too busy to do more.
00:59:33.190 --> 00:59:34.170
But one day we'll do some more.
00:59:35.432 --> 00:59:41.891
And, oh yeah, the other thing I was going to say is, I think travel.
00:59:42.311 --> 00:59:43.172
Travel would be nice.
00:59:43.192 --> 00:59:44.172
I miss travel.
00:59:45.733 --> 00:59:47.536
More travelling with work.
00:59:48.777 --> 00:59:52.900
Sort of pre-pandemic, I had a couple of really nice jobs that did involve a bit of travel.
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:54.242
So one was this job in Ireland.
00:59:55.342 --> 00:59:57.503
So I took the windows over there.
00:59:57.543 --> 00:59:58.445
So that was nice.
00:59:58.505 --> 01:00:02.829
It's exciting to go and take your work somewhere completely different, somewhere completely new.
01:00:02.849 --> 01:00:07.452
I did a big trip up to Scotland as well with a window for up there.
01:00:07.592 --> 01:00:13.523
So yeah, definitely windows further afield would be nice.
01:00:13.563 --> 01:00:14.847
That
01:00:14.887 --> 01:00:15.509
would be nice.
01:00:15.528 --> 01:00:17.313
I want that for you.
01:00:17.333 --> 01:00:18.335
I want that for me.
01:00:18.376 --> 01:00:19.659
I want that for everybody.
01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:20.842
Let's all get out there, people.
01:00:21.043 --> 01:00:22.186
Let's get some traveling in.
01:00:24.994 --> 01:00:26.175
Well, you are such a delight.
01:00:26.215 --> 01:00:28.036
I could listen to your accent all day long.
01:00:28.137 --> 01:00:28.757
I really could.
01:00:28.777 --> 01:00:32.740
I could just want you to follow me around and just narrate my life for me.
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:35.802
I feel the same way about the American accent.
01:00:35.862 --> 01:00:36.264
I love it.
01:00:36.284 --> 01:00:41.288
I think everything just sounds so slick and professional in an American accent and polished.
01:00:41.347 --> 01:00:46.393
And I feel like the English accent, I don't know, it's kind of a bit wooden and clunky and I don't
01:00:47.494 --> 01:00:48.213
know.
01:00:48.233 --> 01:00:48.434
No, no.
01:00:48.474 --> 01:00:49.114
Isn't that funny?
01:00:49.135 --> 01:00:50.635
I hear it totally different.
01:00:50.976 --> 01:00:51.577
Thank you so much.
01:00:51.597 --> 01:01:00.786
I know that this is going to be a much anticipated episode because Because again, as soon as I posted that I was interviewing you, so many people were like, oh yes, like she's my favorite.
01:01:01.067 --> 01:01:01.206
Oh,
01:01:01.547 --> 01:01:02.268
that's so nice.
01:01:02.327 --> 01:01:02.628
Thank you.
01:01:02.688 --> 01:01:07.152
Well, hopefully I've explained things clearly enough.
01:01:07.193 --> 01:01:08.835
I hope it's been helpful.
01:01:09.414 --> 01:01:10.155
I think so.
01:01:10.215 --> 01:01:12.278
There's so much to learn about glass painting.
01:01:12.318 --> 01:01:19.545
You know, like I say, I'm still learning all the time now that I think, you know, and everyone develops their own style of painting.
01:01:19.786 --> 01:01:26.813
And I think that's what's important actually is to have your own style because there's no point everyone being the same, you know, What would be the point?
01:01:26.853 --> 01:01:34.402
So I think in terms of learning how to actually apply the paint to the glass, there's no right and wrong way.
01:01:34.802 --> 01:01:36.583
Just do whatever looks good.
01:01:36.625 --> 01:01:37.726
Right.
01:01:38.606 --> 01:01:43.070
Well, Flora, have a wonderful and productive day in the studio today.
01:01:43.110 --> 01:01:44.132
Thank you.
01:01:44.313 --> 01:01:44.713
Thank you.
01:01:45.153 --> 01:01:45.634
Yes.
01:01:46.675 --> 01:01:47.235
Thank you.
01:01:47.255 --> 01:01:48.637
So much fun and so lovely to meet you.
01:01:48.677 --> 01:01:50.559
So lovely to meet you too.
01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:53.181
Yes, this was so good to talk to you.
01:01:53.583 --> 01:01:54.563
And I'll talk to you soon.
01:01:54.864 --> 01:02:31.923
yeah and we'll speak soon okay thanks again thanks a lot bye bye to see more of flora's work her instagram is at the round window that's t-h-e-r-o-u-n-d-w-i-n-d-o-w and mine is at runa glassworks i'm an even bigger fan of her work now that i know more about her and i'm sure you are too and i can't wait to get my hands on her beautiful Wild Swimming book and I can't wait to watch her Domestika class which will be released in early 2022.
01:02:33.324 --> 01:02:39.512
Make sure you keep up with her updates and sign up for her newsletter so you can be the first in line with me.
01:02:39.532 --> 01:02:52.105
I'm also very happy to report that this interview was recorded back in November so both Flora's daughter and my sweet wonderful husband are out of quarantine and back in good health again.
01:02:52.125 --> 01:02:59.132
Next week is drumroll please, Sheila Solagi Noseworthy.
01:02:59.172 --> 01:03:11.125
Now, this interview with Sheila was recorded early December, just a couple days after her appearance on the stained glass episode of Meet Your Maker Showdown, currently streaming on Discovery+.
01:03:11.186 --> 01:03:16.391
This episode will have spoilers for those of you who haven't seen it yet.
01:03:16.431 --> 01:03:22.438
Not only do we discuss who won, but we're also going to dig into some of the behind the scenes of the challenges.
01:03:22.478 --> 01:03:23.858
And guess what?
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:27.724
Sheila's This episode is the last episode of season one of Cracked.
01:03:28.166 --> 01:03:29.027
Can you believe that?
01:03:29.387 --> 01:03:32.574
Together, we've cracked it open 17 times since September.
01:03:33.235 --> 01:03:36.061
But I'll save all my mushy feelings about that for the next one.
01:03:36.681 --> 01:03:37.563
I'll see you next time.