WEBVTT
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Hey there.
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I'm Susan
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And I'm Laura
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Hi, welcome to Conversations Beyond Borders.
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This is our second season, and we're so excited to be having a different format this year.
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It's going to be a lot more conversational.
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We wanna talk about the things that are maybe stored up in your head, but you rarely speak them out loud.
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So welcome.
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We're
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Welcome.
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Hey, Susan, I have a question for you.
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Why is it whenever anyone asks us how we are, our default is always fine?
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Why don't you think we feel like we can be honest with these people?
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I'm, I'm inclined to think that it's almost a learned behavior.
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Probably, probably something that, I don't know, when we, when we become young adults, I'm not sure why it's just become an accepted thing that we all do.
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But in midlife, I think it's really an, an important question to ask.
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No, agree.
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Agree
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Yeah, I, you know, I could say I'm fine today, and that would probably be an, maybe a lie without omission,'cause I had a full day.
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I had a full day of making furniture, building furniture with my daughter, and that isn't something that I would ultimately at the end of the day say,"Oh, yeah, I'm doing great.
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I'm doing just fine." But we do it.
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It's a habit.
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But what Laura and I wanna do, um, today is maybe jump into, uh, that discussion and that question a little deeper so that we can begin to think and maybe frame it up, um, a little bit going forward.
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One of the things that came up,, doing the research was, you know, one of the reasons why people have a tendency to default to"I'm fine" is because we don't wanna feel like a burden.
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Amen
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We know we don't wanna feel like we're, we're giving somebody our stuff, and so it's just easier to say,"I'm fine," than to feel like we're giving someone else responsibility for, um, for our feelings.
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Yeah, that, you know, that kind of sounds like maybe someone else's comfort level, level is important, more important than ours.
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True
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we, by not burdening someone, it doesn't mean that we, we didn't need a conversation or that we didn't need the support
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Right.
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that
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Agree
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find in a conversation.
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So I think, why do you think we accept this as a common practice?
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Well, I think, you know, going back to when we, when, when we were talking just, you know, talking about the, the burden piece, the other thing that just popped into my mind honestly is, um, some people just can't handle it.
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You know?
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There's, there's those around us, you know, that just can't handle us not doing well or handle...
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Yeah
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just don't know what to do with themselves.
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Um, but, but I, I just think there's been times, you know, at least for me, um, you know, it's if, if if I do answer the question honestly, I may fall apart.
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And, and I ain't got the time for that.
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I got too much to do.
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I'll fall apart when all the rest of the world's problems are solved.
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Um-
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think that's valid.
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I think that's valid, and I think sometimes, um, you say I, I, I might not speak the truth to someone about how I'm actually feeling, I think that's kind of common with someone like my parents, that I'm sort of protecting them,
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Yes.
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Yes
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I don't want them, them to worry about me.
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Right
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might, I might do the same with my adult children because we have this facade that somehow we're just always fine
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Right.
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Right.
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We're, we're the stability.
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We are the rock, and we can't, or at least...
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And, and I know it's not healthy for them to think that we're infallible, and it's not that we set out to make it look that way.
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It's just, I don't want you to worry about me because I'm supposed to be your safe space, and I can't, you know, let you see me weak because then maybe you won't feel like I'm your safe space.
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Right.
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Um, but
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Yeah
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definitely with the kids, I know that I personally would feel like they would, would feel less safe or less secure or less taken care of.
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Less taken care of.
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Yeah.
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I agree.
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I think there is something in that if, if, if there's a crack and if we're admitting that somehow, w- we're, we're struggling with something or suffering with something, that that somehow is going to impact them.
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And I know that week it was a particularly difficult week for me.
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With Abby's move?
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well, with Abby's move and, um, we lost, um, someone in our family, and Laura lost someone as well.
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My father-in-law passed, and, um, a very good example of just, um, what we're talking about is I was in Starbucks and the young lady asked,"Yeah, going?
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you doing?" And I'm like,"I'm good." I paused because of our conversation.
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Yeah
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I paused and I thought,"I'm not fine." And I think it's okay if we create the space for someone to be compassionate for us.
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Yes.
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Now, did you tell her?
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When you paused, did you tell her?
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I did.
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Good
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"As a matter of fact," I said,"I've just recently lost my father-in-law and it's been kind of a rough day." And her expression changed.
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Her, her immediately her body language changed, and it was wonderful to hear a- and to feel that sense of compassion from a complete stranger, but she knew what I was talking about, that we do all have rough days.
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Right
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it's okay in midlife to admit that, you know, something might be tough because you didn't have best sleep or whatever may be going on in your body.
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And I think the more honest we are, the better.
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I just
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for sure.
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And, and the thing I've gotta say, and the thing I've gotta say about what you did with, with that barista was you opened up...
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One, you were vulnerable,
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True
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and two, you, you opened up the space for someone else to be compassionate towards you.
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Right
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and I think that we should probably allow that a little bit more, you know, especially with this age of tech and all of this, you know, disconnection that we have.
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Great
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it's...
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To, to allow even a stranger to be compassionate had to have given you a little bit of a feeling of being supported, even if it was
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was
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a little bit.
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for.
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I was just cared for, and that somebody else cared, or
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Great
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it mattered to them that I was hurting.
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Yeah
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I think it's, it is.
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It's an opportunity if we don't, if we don't express compassion, then we don't learn to also take it.
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So I think it, it, it goes both ways.
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Yeah
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we could certainly talk about this one forever.
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Um, I wanna talk about another aspect, um, in our discussion, Laura, when we were getting ready t- for this topic,
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Mm-hmm
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and that was the whole premise of not taking the time.
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Um, we don't have the time to fall apart.
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We don't, uh, we don't make the time.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, we don't pause even to reflect for ourselves,
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Right
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what am I really feeling?
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Am I really feeling fine, or what am I feeling?
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And I remember you saying to me,"I, I just never considered it.
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I just, I just kept rolling.
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I just kept moving." And that's hard
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Right, right.
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When we, when we were talking about, you know, the, the topic for this episode and, and, you know, the talking points that we wanted to discuss, um, and you asked that question, you put that question out, and I was a little mind-blown myself because it's like, what?
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People actually do that?
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Stop, yes
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to take time?
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Um, no.
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It's, it's, for me, you know, there was, there was a time when my, when my family and my marriage was falling apart that if I would've taken time to reflect, I'm not quite sure I would've gotten out of bed.
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And if I didn't get out of bed, stuff wasn't getting done, you know?
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And, and you-
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that, but you must have been telling yourself,"I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine." And, and, and that's, you, you didn't, we don't, we don't offer ourself any grace that we need the time recovery.
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No, for sure.
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For sure.
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And, and I, I will agree with that.
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I will agree with that.
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Um, and, and with, with that said, I mean, maybe part of that for me is a strategy and a coping mechanism
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Oh,
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so I don't stop and reflect, right?
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It's like that's the distraction.
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The distraction is what's the next thing?
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Yeah.
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And the prevention- We're falling apart.
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so then...
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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No, agree.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah
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Yeah, that's, that's...
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Yeah, I think that's a, again, a common habit of, uh, as you said, of coping with, with such a busy time.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, I think, um, with midlife women, we, we aren't stopping to check, but I know that, um, I don't know about you, but I'm always tired.
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I, I'm always tired.
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I think, I think it's sometimes physically, you know, both you and I,
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Yep
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um, care about and staying active.
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Um, but I think sometimes a lot of my fatigue does come from, from, yeah, th- the emotional side
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Mm-hmm.
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of, of our, of our existence.
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So do we really know how we're doing when we say fine?
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You know, do you think that with all the sleep deprivation and the lower estrogen our energy factories aren't supplying what we need.
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you and I have talked extensively about our ailments, our, our hip
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Yes.
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and our knee issue,
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yes
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um, and all the fluctuations and nevermind, you know, the inflammation, and then you just sort of don't want to.
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Right
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maybe we don't know if we're fine
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Well, and, and I would say that that's, that's ab- absolutely fair, you know?
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I mean, we've-- we are, at least, you know, for me, I'm in a stage where I'm still learning what is going on with my body, how my body is negatively being impacted by all of the changes, the low estrogens.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I'm definitely ahead of you on that role.
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so I'm trying to figure out what is that, right?
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What, what is that?
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Like you said, you, you're, we're tired all the time.
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We're fatigued.
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We wanna keep moving'cause we wanna stay mobile and,
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Absolutely
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and then when you're tired and you wake up exhausted, it's like, what is that, right?
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What is that?
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Um, but, but definitely trying to figure it out.
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And so I would think that, I think that that's fair, that no, we don't always know, um, you know, that whether we're fine or not.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And how do we, how do we stay motivated in life to be doing the things, um, that we know, you know, the eating well and sleeping well and moving.
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Um, how do we, how do we stay motivated?
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I find for, for, for me, motivation can be a real problem.
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Um, sometimes it's just easier to sit on the couch with a bag of chips.
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Oh, absolutely
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And I think maybe l- you know, some reflection might be a valuable thing to do at that point
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Mm-hmm.
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see where I'm at and the why, you know, why we do what we do,
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No, and, and that's, and that's a really good, that's a really good thought.
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I mean, it's like, okay, when you're not feeling motivated to do anything physically and you wanna sit on the couch with that bag of chips, instead of the bag of chips, grab a notebook, you know, and, and reflect and write some things down,
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Right.
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and try to process some things.
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I mean, if you don't have the physical energy to go out and do something, um, you know, just maybe just some light contemplation would, would at least be helpful in giving you
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Yeah.
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some direction
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, another big reason I think that women in their midlife might say, you know,"I'm fine" on any given day is that I think we also minimize
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Oh, yeah
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our own situation.
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We think everyone else, you know, their problems are bigger and they're more important, and we tend to minimize, what we're going through
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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You know, and, and speaking from my own experiences, you know, everybody, you know, raised differently, you know, different relationships, different life experiences.
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Um, never feeling important, never feeling validated, never feeling heard, right?
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So, so if you grow up never feeling like you're heard, your voice doesn't matter, right?
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So, so why would I even bother to tell you how I'm feeling when it's not gonna matter,
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I think, I think we would both agree, um, as we've to build our relationship during the podcast, is that, um, we care a lot about people.
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Yes
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Um, we, we care deeply about our family and our friends.
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but as my therapist reminds me, um, it's okay to love our friends deeply, to love them deeply, but certainly not more than ourselves.
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Yes, that's a very good point
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that it's a, it's a classic position that midlife women put themselves in,
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Mm-hmm.
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that somehow what we're going through is, is, is not as important.
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Mm-hmm.
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I do have to say I have a, a, I have an adult, um, daughter who, um, has been chronically ill since she was about eight years old.
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And if, if...
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I've learned a lot about empathy and compassion, but it's also been as we've through the decades realizing that there were no perfect cures in, in any of this, um, that She also needs to be given just what you're talking about, the power of expression and her own voice to be able to say, you know,"I need to find joy in my life as well."
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Right
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um, I think you're absolutely right that depending on, on how we grew up and what our influences were, um, it is absolutely true that sometimes we think it doesn't matter
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Mm-hmm.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and, and to say that it doesn't matter might be a little harsh.
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It's just like, if I'm not gonna be heard and it's not gonna be met with some sort of understanding, it, it just, to me, it's like, why, why bother?
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You know, maybe it's not so that it doesn't matter, but it's more like, why am I even gonna bother if, if, if I'm not gonna be heard and understood?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I hear you.
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Um, I think, I think because of, of, you know, what you have just described and what I know about you, um, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, we're saying we're fine because we are rewarded for being so strong.
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Oh, yeah.
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You know, like,"You're so strong.
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You got this.
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I don't know how.
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You did it all."
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Yep.
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Right?
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Right
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it, it feels good at first.
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It feels absolutely good at first
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Right.
00:17:23.384 --> 00:17:34.285
Well, and, and I don't know what it was like in Canada in the'70s, but in the US we were going through a little bit of a feminine revolution, if you will, you know?
00:17:34.384 --> 00:17:37.605
And I was one of those latchkey kids.
00:17:38.005 --> 00:17:43.394
Um, you know, mom, m- now Mom went to work outside of the home because she had to, because my, my parents split up.
00:17:43.744 --> 00:18:03.615
Um, but, you know, it's, it's back then in the'70s it was this stupid commercial our listeners from the US will probably remember the Enjoli commercial about the woman bringing home the bacon and frying it up in the pan, and good Lord, of course, I'm gonna never let you forget you're a man, too.
00:18:03.615 --> 00:18:10.315
It's like,"Woo-hoo, I can do it all." And, you know, perfectly, you know, business power suit, hair's done, you know?
00:18:10.355 --> 00:18:21.055
And, and so I think, I think back then, you know, women were starting to really be allowed some independence.
00:18:21.384 --> 00:18:34.884
I mean, I, I did look up, and I, I wanted to write these down, but I looked up some of the stats and it was like, you know, women couldn't get their own credit card until like, like, like the late'70s or early'80s.
00:18:35.102 --> 00:18:35.382
That's
00:18:35.464 --> 00:18:38.615
to have a husband as the primary
00:18:39.109 --> 00:18:39.369
Right
00:18:39.424 --> 00:18:40.424
get their own mortgage.
00:18:40.444 --> 00:18:44.424
I mean, that's been within the last, you know, 50 years,
00:18:44.766 --> 00:18:44.776
Mm-hmm.
00:18:44.826 --> 00:18:45.205
Mm-hmm.
00:18:45.414 --> 00:18:46.035
you know, if...
00:18:46.035 --> 00:18:47.295
Or if even that.
00:18:47.755 --> 00:18:57.045
And, and so, you know, just giving this little bit of starting to get these allowances, if you will, um, by the patriarchy.
00:18:57.345 --> 00:19:00.255
Um, y- we, we couldn't show any weakness.
00:19:01.035 --> 00:19:02.555
Are we gonna get a, a step back?
00:19:02.555 --> 00:19:05.394
We can't show them that we can't handle it.
00:19:05.708 --> 00:19:06.917
No, absolutely not.
00:19:06.917 --> 00:19:24.339
I can remember when we were first married, and even when we had our first child, somehow I think my husband that I had an encyclopedia That, that, that had answers for all.
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:35.130
You know, whether it be running the household, understanding the development of any of the children and what they were going through, and heaven forbid when things fall apart.
00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:48.019
I think, you know, I think there is this expectation that we should be fine and that we are so strong, um, and aren't we happy for it?
00:19:48.497 --> 00:19:48.807
Yeah.
00:19:49.737 --> 00:19:50.166
Right
00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:50.680
always.
00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:56.279
It-- sometimes we don't recognize, like you said earlier, what we're carrying
00:19:56.666 --> 00:19:57.057
Right.
00:19:57.336 --> 00:19:57.717
Right.
00:19:57.906 --> 00:19:58.267
Right.
00:19:58.636 --> 00:20:01.886
So do you think it's because we have a uterus, we just know everything?
00:20:01.886 --> 00:20:03.906
It's like this, it's like this oracle.
00:20:04.166 --> 00:20:18.987
It's like this, this, I've got this magic organ that tells me all, and I'm just dialed into how to just magically whip up a meal and make sure the kids make it to practice on time, and everybody's grades are good.
00:20:18.987 --> 00:20:20.096
I mean, really?
00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:21.420
Right, right.
00:20:21.470 --> 00:20:34.640
But I think I th- uh, you know, we're, we're joking about it, but honestly, you know, we-- I've even teased my husband, like,"Why do you think I can handle this?" That, you know, we moved to Colorado
00:20:34.800 --> 00:20:35.250
Yeah.
00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:36.940
from everyone and everything.
00:20:37.161 --> 00:20:37.421
Right.
00:20:37.421 --> 00:20:39.020
Yeah, you guys changed countries.
00:20:39.131 --> 00:20:39.540
Yeah
00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:40.210
did.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:48.549
Um, and it's been a blessing, but in the earlier stages when I have a seven and a five and a newborn, um, life was hard, and
00:20:48.643 --> 00:20:49.012
Oh yeah
00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:50.849
traveled extensively.
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:58.079
I honestly don't know how I always held it together,
00:20:58.224 --> 00:20:58.565
Yeah
00:20:58.869 --> 00:21:02.069
but there was this expectation that I must,
00:21:02.224 --> 00:21:02.684
Yeah
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:11.920
that I had to, and that, you know, uh, coming home and how were things, you don't, y- it's just like a blur.
00:21:12.144 --> 00:21:12.575
Mm-hmm.
00:21:12.829 --> 00:21:13.299
fine.
00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:14.180
I'm fine."
00:21:14.265 --> 00:21:14.525
Yeah
00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:16.619
we, we've come up with that.
00:21:17.309 --> 00:21:24.150
We've come up with that mostly to just survive the reality of, of what we're carrying, I think
00:21:24.239 --> 00:21:24.618
Agreed.
00:21:25.138 --> 00:21:25.509
Agreed
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:32.329
there may be times, you and I have discussed, that maybe we just don't want to explain everything.
00:21:32.621 --> 00:21:33.090
Oh, no.
00:21:33.509 --> 00:21:39.380
That taking that time, you're talking about time and fatigue, you know, that it's simply easier.
00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:45.279
That it just might be easier to not explain everything.
00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:46.201
Exactly.
00:21:46.330 --> 00:21:46.881
Exactly.
00:21:47.161 --> 00:21:47.270
Well,
00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:47.619
life's complex
00:21:48.830 --> 00:21:54.040
it's not-- and some of it honestly is nobody's business, but at the same time, um, the stuff that might be, you know, you're, you're right.
00:21:54.040 --> 00:21:56.070
I mean, it's just like, I don't want to...
00:21:56.340 --> 00:21:57.580
I don't have the energy for it.
00:21:58.173 --> 00:21:58.423
Yeah.
00:21:59.270 --> 00:22:02.800
it's not worth this becoming a conversation.
00:22:03.221 --> 00:22:05.651
Um, I'm already 10 minutes late to something else.
00:22:06.111 --> 00:22:09.500
Um, but, but it, it still doesn't do us any favors, right?
00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:13.750
I mean, it's not giving us, you know, a, a support group.
00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:15.550
It's not giving us empathy.
00:22:15.550 --> 00:22:24.421
It's not giving us any space or allowance for other people to, you know, lift us up or support us.
00:22:25.351 --> 00:22:26.181
But, yeah
00:22:26.508 --> 00:22:33.077
think a lot of women out there would agree that I just, I can't take the time, I don't have the space, I don't have the energy.
00:22:33.508 --> 00:22:36.627
Um, and so we just keep pushing those emotions down.
00:22:36.913 --> 00:22:37.272
Yep.
00:22:37.538 --> 00:22:38.468
just keep,
00:22:39.103 --> 00:22:39.692
Stuffing them
00:22:40.127 --> 00:22:41.807
just keep stuffing them down.
00:22:41.817 --> 00:22:55.758
And, um, I think that, um, there's, there, there's, there's probably times when you are annoyed or frustrated with someone and would prefer to really share the everything,
00:22:56.017 --> 00:22:56.217
Yeah
00:22:56.998 --> 00:22:58.657
but, we don't.
00:22:58.847 --> 00:22:59.038
We
00:22:59.192 --> 00:22:59.782
No, we don't.
00:22:59.792 --> 00:23:15.663
I, I had a therapist tell me once that women are really great about putting all of their stuff in pretty little bottles up on shelves in the bookcases behind them until those shelves are so full of those pretty little bottles that they come tumbling down.
00:23:15.933 --> 00:23:17.013
Yeah I agree.
00:23:17.253 --> 00:23:20.084
I, I think that's, that's a really good metaphor
00:23:20.401 --> 00:23:20.840
Yeah
00:23:21.074 --> 00:23:23.574
probably what we're storing over the years.
00:23:23.594 --> 00:23:44.233
Um, um, I suppose there's also if we, if we, if we wanted to admit it, there's also the occasions, um, when someone is asking us how you're doing, we might be afraid be honest because we don't want them to be fixing us.
00:23:44.263 --> 00:23:54.294
We don't want them to be, you know, deciding that there's, there's a number of solutions that we should follow.
00:23:54.314 --> 00:23:58.814
So maybe we're avoiding the interaction on purpose.
00:23:59.088 --> 00:24:01.489
So are we specifically talking about the husbands now?
00:24:03.638 --> 00:24:04.648
The ultimate fixers.
00:24:04.858 --> 00:24:06.098
I must fix all the things.
00:24:06.098 --> 00:24:07.229
I'm the man of the house.
00:24:07.229 --> 00:24:08.648
Let me fix the thing.
00:24:09.625 --> 00:24:10.246
Yeah, no kidding.
00:24:10.615 --> 00:24:16.056
Well, I think, I think you and I, and even our second year of this season
00:24:16.113 --> 00:24:16.123
Mm-hmm
00:24:16.546 --> 00:24:20.536
is a true example of how, I...
00:24:20.875 --> 00:24:27.536
For Laura and I, um, I think it's a year of, of, of conversation primarily.
00:24:28.036 --> 00:24:32.375
It's not a year of, of fixing and the five best tips
00:24:32.567 --> 00:24:32.926
No
00:24:33.306 --> 00:24:35.766
the next self-care practice.
00:24:36.256 --> 00:24:38.546
Um, I think we're okay
00:24:38.961 --> 00:24:39.310
Yeah.
00:24:39.615 --> 00:24:40.605
the way we are,
00:24:40.780 --> 00:24:41.141
Yeah
00:24:41.746 --> 00:24:50.715
having a conversation about historically what, what saying I'm fine might have, you know, looked like in the past.
00:24:51.165 --> 00:24:55.645
We're hoping that this episode that you, that you just think about.
00:24:55.675 --> 00:25:07.516
Think about what you're doing and perhaps what your excuses are, and possibly what you would prefer to be saying and what you would hope would happen because of that
00:25:07.921 --> 00:25:09.570
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:10.021 --> 00:25:10.392
Right?
00:25:10.770 --> 00:25:11.050
Yep.
00:25:11.861 --> 00:25:12.201
Agreed
00:25:12.251 --> 00:25:15.451
been, you know, it's been so long that it, that it's automatic.
00:25:16.622 --> 00:25:27.561
it, it does become a habit, and it does become a coping strategy, it does become, you know, it, it, it becomes the way, but it doesn't, it doesn't have to be.
00:25:27.571 --> 00:25:27.932
So
00:25:28.199 --> 00:25:28.358
No
00:25:28.662 --> 00:25:30.692
you know, just giving yourself permission
00:25:31.153 --> 00:25:31.613
Yeah
00:25:32.511 --> 00:25:36.041
to handle that differently as I did on that day of Starbucks.
00:25:36.061 --> 00:25:37.721
I just decided to be honest,
00:25:38.295 --> 00:25:39.654
No, I love, I love that you did.
00:25:39.684 --> 00:25:40.005
Yeah
00:25:40.021 --> 00:25:40.471
Yeah.
00:25:40.531 --> 00:25:44.801
Yeah, because how many"I'm fines" do they receive?
00:25:44.821 --> 00:25:55.372
And, and isn't, isn't relationships and interact real stuff about being honest with each other even if it's hard and
00:25:55.376 --> 00:25:55.656
Yes.
00:25:56.071 --> 00:25:56.092
You
00:25:56.346 --> 00:25:56.686
Yes.
00:25:56.797 --> 00:25:57.116
Yes.
00:25:57.326 --> 00:26:05.656
Well, again, the other thing that I love about it is I've gotta, gotta, you know, say this again, is especially now in our culture where we're so disconnected,
00:26:06.023 --> 00:26:06.453
Right
00:26:06.457 --> 00:26:15.967
be able to allow that, um, connection with someone on a very real level, especially if they're someone of a younger generation, right?
00:26:16.376 --> 00:26:25.527
Um, and, you know, I just think that's so important to, you know, give that to ourselves and, and to the other person that, you know, that you're interacting with.
00:26:25.537 --> 00:26:27.727
So I, I love that you did that for a lot of reasons.
00:26:28.458 --> 00:26:28.567
Yeah.
00:26:28.627 --> 00:26:28.798
Yeah.
00:26:28.798 --> 00:26:38.857
So maybe the question isn't whether we're fine, it's maybe the question is whether we've gotten so used to saying it that we've stopped noticing what we're actually carrying.
00:26:39.217 --> 00:26:39.596
Yeah
00:26:39.738 --> 00:26:59.978
And so maybe following this episode, you can take those moments of reflection that we talked about that are so important for recovery and for really understanding how you're really feeling and what you're going through and what you may need from someone else just by saying,"You know, it's been a rough day." And we've all had them.
00:27:00.560 --> 00:27:00.971
Yep.
00:27:00.980 --> 00:27:00.990
Oh
00:27:01.018 --> 00:27:01.518
all had them,
00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:01.540
yeah
00:27:01.877 --> 00:27:07.577
and what an opportunity to, um, step up, um, for somebody else.
00:27:07.587 --> 00:27:10.817
So I think that's why we wanted to have this conversation this week.
00:27:11.388 --> 00:27:11.669
Absolutely
00:27:11.807 --> 00:27:13.198
it's, it's an important one.
00:27:13.208 --> 00:27:13.597
It's...
00:27:13.607 --> 00:27:14.178
You're right.
00:27:14.188 --> 00:27:24.508
It's relevant and, uh, given the lack of, of, of interaction and conversations that, that are going on, I think this is a good place to start.
00:27:24.508 --> 00:27:24.978
So
00:27:25.310 --> 00:27:25.661
Yep, agree
00:27:26.367 --> 00:27:26.637
yeah.
00:27:26.698 --> 00:27:38.428
Um, so maybe this week, maybe, maybe if someone asks you how you're really doing and you, know they genuinely wanna answer, what might you say?
00:27:38.865 --> 00:27:39.194
Yeah.
00:27:40.208 --> 00:27:40.557
Right?
00:27:40.577 --> 00:27:40.817
Think
00:27:41.105 --> 00:27:41.355
Yeah
00:27:41.458 --> 00:27:42.498
What might you say?
00:27:42.508 --> 00:27:46.067
How are you gonna let people in, um, with where you're at?
00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:47.391
Yeah, be brave.
00:27:47.590 --> 00:27:48.030
Be brave
00:27:48.357 --> 00:27:48.917
Be, be brave.
00:27:48.917 --> 00:27:50.788
So I think we'll wrap it up this week,
00:27:51.250 --> 00:27:51.750
Yes, ma'am
00:27:52.298 --> 00:28:00.147
and we hope you enjoyed our conversation'cause that's what this is, and we're glad you're in it
00:28:00.625 --> 00:28:01.005
Yes.
00:28:01.035 --> 00:28:01.305
Yes.
00:28:01.315 --> 00:28:10.355
And don't forget to find us on Facebook and Instagram, and you can find us on our private Facebook group, Conversations Beyond Borders With You.
00:28:10.974 --> 00:28:17.164
And don't forget to like and subscribe and do all the wonderful things that help other people find us
00:28:17.509 --> 00:28:17.819
Yeah.
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.650
That really, that really helps us.
00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:21.329
So until next time.
00:28:21.696 --> 00:28:21.957
Okay, bye
00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:23.390
Bye.
00:00:03.918 --> 00:00:04.427
Hey there.
00:00:04.878 --> 00:00:05.647
I'm Susan
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:07.599
And I'm Laura
00:00:08.471 --> 00:00:10.942
Hi, welcome to Conversations Beyond Borders.
00:00:10.942 --> 00:00:16.742
This is our second season, and we're so excited to be having a different format this year.
00:00:17.132 --> 00:00:19.102
It's going to be a lot more conversational.
00:00:19.121 --> 00:00:25.192
We wanna talk about the things that are maybe stored up in your head, but you rarely speak them out loud.
00:00:25.672 --> 00:00:28.361
So welcome.
00:00:28.812 --> 00:00:28.961
We're
00:00:29.123 --> 00:00:29.492
Welcome.
00:00:29.693 --> 00:00:32.493
Hey, Susan, I have a question for you.
00:00:33.773 --> 00:00:40.512
Why is it whenever anyone asks us how we are, our default is always fine?
00:00:40.883 --> 00:00:44.292
Why don't you think we feel like we can be honest with these people?
00:00:45.216 --> 00:00:48.246
I'm, I'm inclined to think that it's almost a learned behavior.
00:00:48.356 --> 00:01:01.276
Probably, probably something that, I don't know, when we, when we become young adults, I'm not sure why it's just become an accepted thing that we all do.
00:01:01.286 --> 00:01:06.325
But in midlife, I think it's really an, an important question to ask.
00:01:06.861 --> 00:01:07.320
No, agree.
00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:07.751
Agree
00:01:08.016 --> 00:01:22.906
Yeah, I, you know, I could say I'm fine today, and that would probably be an, maybe a lie without omission,'cause I had a full day.
00:01:23.006 --> 00:01:34.495
I had a full day of making furniture, building furniture with my daughter, and that isn't something that I would ultimately at the end of the day say,"Oh, yeah, I'm doing great.
00:01:34.495 --> 00:01:36.436
I'm doing just fine." But we do it.
00:01:36.915 --> 00:01:37.695
It's a habit.
00:01:38.046 --> 00:01:51.215
But what Laura and I wanna do, um, today is maybe jump into, uh, that discussion and that question a little deeper so that we can begin to think and maybe frame it up, um, a little bit going forward.
00:01:51.899 --> 00:02:03.379
One of the things that came up,, doing the research was, you know, one of the reasons why people have a tendency to default to"I'm fine" is because we don't wanna feel like a burden.
00:02:04.974 --> 00:02:05.463
Amen
00:02:05.838 --> 00:02:22.739
We know we don't wanna feel like we're, we're giving somebody our stuff, and so it's just easier to say,"I'm fine," than to feel like we're giving someone else responsibility for, um, for our feelings.
00:02:23.183 --> 00:02:32.183
Yeah, that, you know, that kind of sounds like maybe someone else's comfort level, level is important, more important than ours.
00:02:32.610 --> 00:02:32.941
True
00:02:33.403 --> 00:02:42.063
we, by not burdening someone, it doesn't mean that we, we didn't need a conversation or that we didn't need the support
00:02:42.721 --> 00:02:43.091
Right.
00:02:43.554 --> 00:02:43.753
that
00:02:43.760 --> 00:02:44.040
Agree
00:02:44.123 --> 00:02:45.544
find in a conversation.
00:02:45.544 --> 00:02:50.804
So I think, why do you think we accept this as a common practice?
00:02:52.236 --> 00:03:04.937
Well, I think, you know, going back to when we, when, when we were talking just, you know, talking about the, the burden piece, the other thing that just popped into my mind honestly is, um, some people just can't handle it.
00:03:05.866 --> 00:03:06.396
You know?
00:03:06.407 --> 00:03:14.456
There's, there's those around us, you know, that just can't handle us not doing well or handle...
00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:15.120
Yeah
00:03:15.396 --> 00:03:17.016
just don't know what to do with themselves.
00:03:17.426 --> 00:03:32.086
Um, but, but I, I just think there's been times, you know, at least for me, um, you know, it's if, if if I do answer the question honestly, I may fall apart.
00:03:32.826 --> 00:03:37.447
And, and I ain't got the time for that.
00:03:37.447 --> 00:03:38.266
I got too much to do.
00:03:39.106 --> 00:03:42.347
I'll fall apart when all the rest of the world's problems are solved.
00:03:42.717 --> 00:03:43.447
Um-
00:03:43.466 --> 00:03:44.355
think that's valid.
00:03:44.355 --> 00:03:59.156
I think that's valid, and I think sometimes, um, you say I, I, I might not speak the truth to someone about how I'm actually feeling, I think that's kind of common with someone like my parents, that I'm sort of protecting them,
00:03:59.338 --> 00:03:59.639
Yes.
00:03:59.929 --> 00:04:00.399
Yes
00:04:00.816 --> 00:04:03.945
I don't want them, them to worry about me.
00:04:04.348 --> 00:04:04.588
Right
00:04:04.756 --> 00:04:14.566
might, I might do the same with my adult children because we have this facade that somehow we're just always fine
00:04:14.906 --> 00:04:15.246
Right.
00:04:15.765 --> 00:04:16.026
Right.
00:04:16.206 --> 00:04:17.706
We're, we're the stability.
00:04:18.466 --> 00:04:23.466
We are the rock, and we can't, or at least...
00:04:23.985 --> 00:04:32.726
And, and I know it's not healthy for them to think that we're infallible, and it's not that we set out to make it look that way.
00:04:33.185 --> 00:04:42.725
It's just, I don't want you to worry about me because I'm supposed to be your safe space, and I can't, you know, let you see me weak because then maybe you won't feel like I'm your safe space.
00:04:42.935 --> 00:04:43.235
Right.
00:04:43.425 --> 00:04:45.086
Um, but
00:04:45.175 --> 00:04:45.276
Yeah
00:04:46.326 --> 00:04:58.406
definitely with the kids, I know that I personally would feel like they would, would feel less safe or less secure or less taken care of.
00:04:58.627 --> 00:04:59.466
Less taken care of.
00:04:59.925 --> 00:05:00.086
Yeah.
00:05:00.459 --> 00:05:00.939
I agree.
00:05:00.939 --> 00:05:18.250
I think there is something in that if, if, if there's a crack and if we're admitting that somehow, w- we're, we're struggling with something or suffering with something, that that somehow is going to impact them.
00:05:18.290 --> 00:05:23.459
And I know that week it was a particularly difficult week for me.
00:05:24.098 --> 00:05:25.319
With Abby's move?
00:05:26.110 --> 00:05:34.120
well, with Abby's move and, um, we lost, um, someone in our family, and Laura lost someone as well.
00:05:34.149 --> 00:05:47.170
My father-in-law passed, and, um, a very good example of just, um, what we're talking about is I was in Starbucks and the young lady asked,"Yeah, going?
00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:53.550
you doing?" And I'm like,"I'm good." I paused because of our conversation.
00:05:53.699 --> 00:05:54.119
Yeah
00:05:54.180 --> 00:06:08.569
I paused and I thought,"I'm not fine." And I think it's okay if we create the space for someone to be compassionate for us.
00:06:09.507 --> 00:06:09.697
Yes.
00:06:09.706 --> 00:06:10.677
Now, did you tell her?
00:06:10.677 --> 00:06:12.177
When you paused, did you tell her?
00:06:12.401 --> 00:06:13.072
I did.
00:06:13.257 --> 00:06:13.646
Good
00:06:14.122 --> 00:06:22.922
"As a matter of fact," I said,"I've just recently lost my father-in-law and it's been kind of a rough day." And her expression changed.
00:06:23.382 --> 00:06:41.411
Her, her immediately her body language changed, and it was wonderful to hear a- and to feel that sense of compassion from a complete stranger, but she knew what I was talking about, that we do all have rough days.
00:06:42.055 --> 00:06:42.345
Right
00:06:42.572 --> 00:06:54.362
it's okay in midlife to admit that, you know, something might be tough because you didn't have best sleep or whatever may be going on in your body.
00:06:54.362 --> 00:06:57.982
And I think the more honest we are, the better.
00:06:58.052 --> 00:06:58.572
I just
00:06:58.651 --> 00:06:59.250
for sure.
00:06:59.730 --> 00:07:09.380
And, and the thing I've gotta say, and the thing I've gotta say about what you did with, with that barista was you opened up...
00:07:09.451 --> 00:07:10.680
One, you were vulnerable,
00:07:11.684 --> 00:07:11.834
True
00:07:11.951 --> 00:07:17.841
and two, you, you opened up the space for someone else to be compassionate towards you.
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:18.540
Right
00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:29.670
and I think that we should probably allow that a little bit more, you know, especially with this age of tech and all of this, you know, disconnection that we have.
00:07:30.144 --> 00:07:30.444
Great
00:07:30.651 --> 00:07:31.091
it's...
00:07:31.430 --> 00:07:39.380
To, to allow even a stranger to be compassionate had to have given you a little bit of a feeling of being supported, even if it was
00:07:39.512 --> 00:07:39.968
was
00:07:39.980 --> 00:07:40.071
a little bit.
00:07:40.423 --> 00:07:40.877
for.
00:07:40.877 --> 00:07:44.588
I was just cared for, and that somebody else cared, or
00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:45.000
Great
00:07:45.168 --> 00:07:48.247
it mattered to them that I was hurting.
00:07:48.416 --> 00:07:48.807
Yeah
00:07:48.937 --> 00:07:50.447
I think it's, it is.
00:07:50.458 --> 00:07:59.187
It's an opportunity if we don't, if we don't express compassion, then we don't learn to also take it.
00:07:59.197 --> 00:08:01.507
So I think it, it, it goes both ways.
00:08:01.761 --> 00:08:02.031
Yeah
00:08:02.387 --> 00:08:05.228
we could certainly talk about this one forever.
00:08:05.697 --> 00:08:14.038
Um, I wanna talk about another aspect, um, in our discussion, Laura, when we were getting ready t- for this topic,
00:08:14.392 --> 00:08:14.543
Mm-hmm
00:08:14.798 --> 00:08:19.827
and that was the whole premise of not taking the time.
00:08:20.317 --> 00:08:22.937
Um, we don't have the time to fall apart.
00:08:22.968 --> 00:08:26.067
We don't, uh, we don't make the time.
00:08:26.336 --> 00:08:26.346
Mm-hmm.
00:08:26.377 --> 00:08:32.888
Um, we don't pause even to reflect for ourselves,
00:08:33.520 --> 00:08:33.870
Right
00:08:34.048 --> 00:08:35.868
what am I really feeling?
00:08:36.317 --> 00:08:39.128
Am I really feeling fine, or what am I feeling?
00:08:39.128 --> 00:08:44.597
And I remember you saying to me,"I, I just never considered it.
00:08:44.618 --> 00:08:46.528
I just, I just kept rolling.
00:08:46.557 --> 00:08:48.937
I just kept moving." And that's hard
00:08:49.417 --> 00:08:50.037
Right, right.
00:08:50.037 --> 00:09:05.586
When we, when we were talking about, you know, the, the topic for this episode and, and, you know, the talking points that we wanted to discuss, um, and you asked that question, you put that question out, and I was a little mind-blown myself because it's like, what?
00:09:05.937 --> 00:09:07.037
People actually do that?
00:09:08.899 --> 00:09:11.100
Stop, yes
00:09:11.427 --> 00:09:12.187
to take time?
00:09:12.557 --> 00:09:14.456
Um, no.
00:09:14.476 --> 00:09:25.216
It's, it's, for me, you know, there was, there was a time when my, when my family and my marriage was falling apart that if I would've taken time to reflect, I'm not quite sure I would've gotten out of bed.
00:09:25.677 --> 00:09:29.076
And if I didn't get out of bed, stuff wasn't getting done, you know?
00:09:30.297 --> 00:09:31.037
And, and you-
00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:47.409
that, but you must have been telling yourself,"I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine." And, and, and that's, you, you didn't, we don't, we don't offer ourself any grace that we need the time recovery.
00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:48.821
No, for sure.
00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:49.441
For sure.
00:09:49.441 --> 00:09:51.061
And, and I, I will agree with that.
00:09:51.061 --> 00:09:52.130
I will agree with that.
00:09:52.160 --> 00:10:01.841
Um, and, and with, with that said, I mean, maybe part of that for me is a strategy and a coping mechanism
00:10:02.210 --> 00:10:02.299
Oh,
00:10:02.490 --> 00:10:05.561
so I don't stop and reflect, right?
00:10:05.850 --> 00:10:08.051
It's like that's the distraction.
00:10:08.061 --> 00:10:10.510
The distraction is what's the next thing?
00:10:10.573 --> 00:10:10.943
Yeah.
00:10:10.994 --> 00:10:13.053
And the prevention- We're falling apart.
00:10:13.370 --> 00:10:13.421
so then...
00:10:13.431 --> 00:10:13.921
Exactly.
00:10:14.201 --> 00:10:14.740
Exactly.
00:10:15.010 --> 00:10:15.530
No, agree.
00:10:15.630 --> 00:10:15.910
Yeah.
00:10:15.971 --> 00:10:16.230
Yeah.
00:10:16.691 --> 00:10:17.010
Yeah
00:10:17.423 --> 00:10:18.693
Yeah, that's, that's...
00:10:19.624 --> 00:10:27.333
Yeah, I think that's a, again, a common habit of, uh, as you said, of coping with, with such a busy time.
00:10:27.852 --> 00:10:28.003
Mm-hmm.
00:10:28.203 --> 00:10:39.923
Um, I think, um, with midlife women, we, we aren't stopping to check, but I know that, um, I don't know about you, but I'm always tired.
00:10:40.854 --> 00:10:44.004
I, I'm always tired.
00:10:44.014 --> 00:10:48.094
I think, I think it's sometimes physically, you know, both you and I,
00:10:48.466 --> 00:10:48.657
Yep
00:10:48.884 --> 00:10:53.083
um, care about and staying active.
00:10:53.673 --> 00:11:02.903
Um, but I think sometimes a lot of my fatigue does come from, from, yeah, th- the emotional side
00:11:03.041 --> 00:11:03.051
Mm-hmm.
00:11:03.214 --> 00:11:05.144
of, of our, of our existence.
00:11:05.153 --> 00:11:11.394
So do we really know how we're doing when we say fine?
00:11:12.153 --> 00:11:24.053
You know, do you think that with all the sleep deprivation and the lower estrogen our energy factories aren't supplying what we need.
00:11:26.144 --> 00:11:30.114
you and I have talked extensively about our ailments, our, our hip
00:11:30.273 --> 00:11:30.342
Yes.
00:11:31.033 --> 00:11:32.374
and our knee issue,
00:11:32.602 --> 00:11:33.023
yes
00:11:33.443 --> 00:11:39.984
um, and all the fluctuations and nevermind, you know, the inflammation, and then you just sort of don't want to.
00:11:40.538 --> 00:11:40.908
Right
00:11:41.884 --> 00:11:44.823
maybe we don't know if we're fine
00:11:45.730 --> 00:11:49.821
Well, and, and I would say that that's, that's ab- absolutely fair, you know?
00:11:49.821 --> 00:12:01.630
I mean, we've-- we are, at least, you know, for me, I'm in a stage where I'm still learning what is going on with my body, how my body is negatively being impacted by all of the changes, the low estrogens.
00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:02.529
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.700
I'm definitely ahead of you on that role.
00:12:06.551 --> 00:12:09.081
so I'm trying to figure out what is that, right?
00:12:09.081 --> 00:12:09.870
What, what is that?
00:12:09.870 --> 00:12:12.081
Like you said, you, you're, we're tired all the time.
00:12:12.081 --> 00:12:12.770
We're fatigued.
00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.441
We wanna keep moving'cause we wanna stay mobile and,
00:12:16.806 --> 00:12:17.176
Absolutely
00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:22.691
and then when you're tired and you wake up exhausted, it's like, what is that, right?
00:12:22.691 --> 00:12:23.380
What is that?
00:12:23.530 --> 00:12:26.030
Um, but, but definitely trying to figure it out.
00:12:26.041 --> 00:12:32.380
And so I would think that, I think that that's fair, that no, we don't always know, um, you know, that whether we're fine or not.
00:12:32.686 --> 00:12:33.115
Yeah.
00:12:33.115 --> 00:12:33.346
Yeah.
00:12:33.346 --> 00:12:48.025
And how do we, how do we stay motivated in life to be doing the things, um, that we know, you know, the eating well and sleeping well and moving.
00:12:48.515 --> 00:12:52.206
Um, how do we, how do we stay motivated?
00:12:52.235 --> 00:12:57.426
I find for, for, for me, motivation can be a real problem.
00:12:57.446 --> 00:13:01.546
Um, sometimes it's just easier to sit on the couch with a bag of chips.
00:13:01.993 --> 00:13:02.852
Oh, absolutely
00:13:02.975 --> 00:13:11.895
And I think maybe l- you know, some reflection might be a valuable thing to do at that point
00:13:12.332 --> 00:13:12.472
Mm-hmm.
00:13:12.605 --> 00:13:17.436
see where I'm at and the why, you know, why we do what we do,
00:13:17.962 --> 00:13:20.592
No, and, and that's, and that's a really good, that's a really good thought.
00:13:20.602 --> 00:13:32.383
I mean, it's like, okay, when you're not feeling motivated to do anything physically and you wanna sit on the couch with that bag of chips, instead of the bag of chips, grab a notebook, you know, and, and reflect and write some things down,
00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:32.879
Right.
00:13:33.153 --> 00:13:34.663
and try to process some things.
00:13:34.663 --> 00:13:43.352
I mean, if you don't have the physical energy to go out and do something, um, you know, just maybe just some light contemplation would, would at least be helpful in giving you
00:13:43.368 --> 00:13:43.467
Yeah.
00:13:43.743 --> 00:13:44.533
some direction
00:13:45.028 --> 00:13:45.717
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:46.628 --> 00:13:59.827
Um, another big reason I think that women in their midlife might say, you know,"I'm fine" on any given day is that I think we also minimize
00:14:00.658 --> 00:14:01.288
Oh, yeah
00:14:01.538 --> 00:14:03.038
our own situation.
00:14:03.038 --> 00:14:13.288
We think everyone else, you know, their problems are bigger and they're more important, and we tend to minimize, what we're going through
00:14:13.995 --> 00:14:14.664
Absolutely.
00:14:16.174 --> 00:14:16.835
Absolutely.
00:14:16.995 --> 00:14:26.215
You know, and, and speaking from my own experiences, you know, everybody, you know, raised differently, you know, different relationships, different life experiences.
00:14:26.735 --> 00:14:34.125
Um, never feeling important, never feeling validated, never feeling heard, right?
00:14:34.434 --> 00:14:40.404
So, so if you grow up never feeling like you're heard, your voice doesn't matter, right?
00:14:40.404 --> 00:14:48.845
So, so why would I even bother to tell you how I'm feeling when it's not gonna matter,
00:14:49.261 --> 00:14:50.282
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:14:50.322 --> 00:14:59.662
I think, I think we would both agree, um, as we've to build our relationship during the podcast, is that, um, we care a lot about people.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:00.490
Yes
00:15:00.542 --> 00:15:04.682
Um, we, we care deeply about our family and our friends.
00:15:05.782 --> 00:15:15.542
but as my therapist reminds me, um, it's okay to love our friends deeply, to love them deeply, but certainly not more than ourselves.
00:15:15.585 --> 00:15:16.514
Yes, that's a very good point
00:15:16.701 --> 00:15:21.652
that it's a, it's a classic position that midlife women put themselves in,
00:15:21.889 --> 00:15:21.899
Mm-hmm.
00:15:21.912 --> 00:15:27.522
that somehow what we're going through is, is, is not as important.
00:15:27.841 --> 00:15:27.850
Mm-hmm.
00:15:28.392 --> 00:15:36.951
I do have to say I have a, a, I have an adult, um, daughter who, um, has been chronically ill since she was about eight years old.
00:15:36.991 --> 00:15:38.402
And if, if...
00:15:39.572 --> 00:16:06.953
I've learned a lot about empathy and compassion, but it's also been as we've through the decades realizing that there were no perfect cures in, in any of this, um, that She also needs to be given just what you're talking about, the power of expression and her own voice to be able to say, you know,"I need to find joy in my life as well."
00:16:07.432 --> 00:16:07.793
Right
00:16:08.234 --> 00:16:21.734
um, I think you're absolutely right that depending on, on how we grew up and what our influences were, um, it is absolutely true that sometimes we think it doesn't matter
00:16:22.239 --> 00:16:24.359
Mm-hmm.
00:16:24.359 --> 00:16:24.849
Exactly.
00:16:24.979 --> 00:16:25.349
Yeah.
00:16:25.719 --> 00:16:26.089
Yeah.
00:16:27.418 --> 00:16:30.109
Yeah, and, and to say that it doesn't matter might be a little harsh.
00:16:30.109 --> 00:16:40.989
It's just like, if I'm not gonna be heard and it's not gonna be met with some sort of understanding, it, it just, to me, it's like, why, why bother?
00:16:41.048 --> 00:16:46.589
You know, maybe it's not so that it doesn't matter, but it's more like, why am I even gonna bother if, if, if I'm not gonna be heard and understood?
00:16:46.894 --> 00:16:47.173
Yeah.
00:16:47.658 --> 00:16:47.999
Yeah.
00:16:48.489 --> 00:16:48.798
Yeah.
00:16:49.144 --> 00:16:49.793
I hear you.
00:16:50.464 --> 00:17:07.824
Um, I think, I think because of, of, you know, what you have just described and what I know about you, um, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, we're saying we're fine because we are rewarded for being so strong.
00:17:08.487 --> 00:17:08.946
Oh, yeah.
00:17:09.384 --> 00:17:11.324
You know, like,"You're so strong.
00:17:11.334 --> 00:17:12.493
You got this.
00:17:12.693 --> 00:17:13.773
I don't know how.
00:17:13.794 --> 00:17:15.064
You did it all."
00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:15.891
Yep.
00:17:16.384 --> 00:17:16.903
Right?
00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:17.590
Right
00:17:17.614 --> 00:17:19.663
it, it feels good at first.
00:17:20.344 --> 00:17:22.144
It feels absolutely good at first
00:17:23.075 --> 00:17:23.384
Right.
00:17:23.384 --> 00:17:34.285
Well, and, and I don't know what it was like in Canada in the'70s, but in the US we were going through a little bit of a feminine revolution, if you will, you know?
00:17:34.384 --> 00:17:37.605
And I was one of those latchkey kids.
00:17:38.005 --> 00:17:43.394
Um, you know, mom, m- now Mom went to work outside of the home because she had to, because my, my parents split up.
00:17:43.744 --> 00:18:03.615
Um, but, you know, it's, it's back then in the'70s it was this stupid commercial our listeners from the US will probably remember the Enjoli commercial about the woman bringing home the bacon and frying it up in the pan, and good Lord, of course, I'm gonna never let you forget you're a man, too.
00:18:03.615 --> 00:18:10.315
It's like,"Woo-hoo, I can do it all." And, you know, perfectly, you know, business power suit, hair's done, you know?
00:18:10.355 --> 00:18:21.055
And, and so I think, I think back then, you know, women were starting to really be allowed some independence.
00:18:21.384 --> 00:18:34.884
I mean, I, I did look up, and I, I wanted to write these down, but I looked up some of the stats and it was like, you know, women couldn't get their own credit card until like, like, like the late'70s or early'80s.
00:18:35.102 --> 00:18:35.382
That's
00:18:35.464 --> 00:18:38.615
to have a husband as the primary
00:18:39.109 --> 00:18:39.369
Right
00:18:39.424 --> 00:18:40.424
get their own mortgage.
00:18:40.444 --> 00:18:44.424
I mean, that's been within the last, you know, 50 years,
00:18:44.766 --> 00:18:44.776
Mm-hmm.
00:18:44.826 --> 00:18:45.205
Mm-hmm.
00:18:45.414 --> 00:18:46.035
you know, if...
00:18:46.035 --> 00:18:47.295
Or if even that.
00:18:47.755 --> 00:18:57.045
And, and so, you know, just giving this little bit of starting to get these allowances, if you will, um, by the patriarchy.
00:18:57.345 --> 00:19:00.255
Um, y- we, we couldn't show any weakness.
00:19:01.035 --> 00:19:02.555
Are we gonna get a, a step back?
00:19:02.555 --> 00:19:05.394
We can't show them that we can't handle it.
00:19:05.708 --> 00:19:06.917
No, absolutely not.
00:19:06.917 --> 00:19:24.339
I can remember when we were first married, and even when we had our first child, somehow I think my husband that I had an encyclopedia That, that, that had answers for all.
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:35.130
You know, whether it be running the household, understanding the development of any of the children and what they were going through, and heaven forbid when things fall apart.
00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:48.019
I think, you know, I think there is this expectation that we should be fine and that we are so strong, um, and aren't we happy for it?
00:19:48.497 --> 00:19:48.807
Yeah.
00:19:49.737 --> 00:19:50.166
Right
00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:50.680
always.
00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:56.279
It-- sometimes we don't recognize, like you said earlier, what we're carrying
00:19:56.666 --> 00:19:57.057
Right.
00:19:57.336 --> 00:19:57.717
Right.
00:19:57.906 --> 00:19:58.267
Right.
00:19:58.636 --> 00:20:01.886
So do you think it's because we have a uterus, we just know everything?
00:20:01.886 --> 00:20:03.906
It's like this, it's like this oracle.
00:20:04.166 --> 00:20:18.987
It's like this, this, I've got this magic organ that tells me all, and I'm just dialed into how to just magically whip up a meal and make sure the kids make it to practice on time, and everybody's grades are good.
00:20:18.987 --> 00:20:20.096
I mean, really?
00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:21.420
Right, right.
00:20:21.470 --> 00:20:34.640
But I think I th- uh, you know, we're, we're joking about it, but honestly, you know, we-- I've even teased my husband, like,"Why do you think I can handle this?" That, you know, we moved to Colorado
00:20:34.800 --> 00:20:35.250
Yeah.
00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:36.940
from everyone and everything.
00:20:37.161 --> 00:20:37.421
Right.
00:20:37.421 --> 00:20:39.020
Yeah, you guys changed countries.
00:20:39.131 --> 00:20:39.540
Yeah
00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:40.210
did.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:48.549
Um, and it's been a blessing, but in the earlier stages when I have a seven and a five and a newborn, um, life was hard, and
00:20:48.643 --> 00:20:49.012
Oh yeah
00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:50.849
traveled extensively.
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:58.079
I honestly don't know how I always held it together,
00:20:58.224 --> 00:20:58.565
Yeah
00:20:58.869 --> 00:21:02.069
but there was this expectation that I must,
00:21:02.224 --> 00:21:02.684
Yeah
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:11.920
that I had to, and that, you know, uh, coming home and how were things, you don't, y- it's just like a blur.
00:21:12.144 --> 00:21:12.575
Mm-hmm.
00:21:12.829 --> 00:21:13.299
fine.
00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:14.180
I'm fine."
00:21:14.265 --> 00:21:14.525
Yeah
00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:16.619
we, we've come up with that.
00:21:17.309 --> 00:21:24.150
We've come up with that mostly to just survive the reality of, of what we're carrying, I think
00:21:24.239 --> 00:21:24.618
Agreed.
00:21:25.138 --> 00:21:25.509
Agreed
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:32.329
there may be times, you and I have discussed, that maybe we just don't want to explain everything.
00:21:32.621 --> 00:21:33.090
Oh, no.
00:21:33.509 --> 00:21:39.380
That taking that time, you're talking about time and fatigue, you know, that it's simply easier.
00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:45.279
That it just might be easier to not explain everything.
00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:46.201
Exactly.
00:21:46.330 --> 00:21:46.881
Exactly.
00:21:47.161 --> 00:21:47.270
Well,
00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:47.619
life's complex
00:21:48.830 --> 00:21:54.040
it's not-- and some of it honestly is nobody's business, but at the same time, um, the stuff that might be, you know, you're, you're right.
00:21:54.040 --> 00:21:56.070
I mean, it's just like, I don't want to...
00:21:56.340 --> 00:21:57.580
I don't have the energy for it.
00:21:58.173 --> 00:21:58.423
Yeah.
00:21:59.270 --> 00:22:02.800
it's not worth this becoming a conversation.
00:22:03.221 --> 00:22:05.651
Um, I'm already 10 minutes late to something else.
00:22:06.111 --> 00:22:09.500
Um, but, but it, it still doesn't do us any favors, right?
00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:13.750
I mean, it's not giving us, you know, a, a support group.
00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:15.550
It's not giving us empathy.
00:22:15.550 --> 00:22:24.421
It's not giving us any space or allowance for other people to, you know, lift us up or support us.
00:22:25.351 --> 00:22:26.181
But, yeah
00:22:26.508 --> 00:22:33.077
think a lot of women out there would agree that I just, I can't take the time, I don't have the space, I don't have the energy.
00:22:33.508 --> 00:22:36.627
Um, and so we just keep pushing those emotions down.
00:22:36.913 --> 00:22:37.272
Yep.
00:22:37.538 --> 00:22:38.468
just keep,
00:22:39.103 --> 00:22:39.692
Stuffing them
00:22:40.127 --> 00:22:41.807
just keep stuffing them down.
00:22:41.817 --> 00:22:55.758
And, um, I think that, um, there's, there, there's, there's probably times when you are annoyed or frustrated with someone and would prefer to really share the everything,
00:22:56.017 --> 00:22:56.217
Yeah
00:22:56.998 --> 00:22:58.657
but, we don't.
00:22:58.847 --> 00:22:59.038
We
00:22:59.192 --> 00:22:59.782
No, we don't.
00:22:59.792 --> 00:23:15.663
I, I had a therapist tell me once that women are really great about putting all of their stuff in pretty little bottles up on shelves in the bookcases behind them until those shelves are so full of those pretty little bottles that they come tumbling down.
00:23:15.933 --> 00:23:17.013
Yeah I agree.
00:23:17.253 --> 00:23:20.084
I, I think that's, that's a really good metaphor
00:23:20.401 --> 00:23:20.840
Yeah
00:23:21.074 --> 00:23:23.574
probably what we're storing over the years.
00:23:23.594 --> 00:23:44.233
Um, um, I suppose there's also if we, if we, if we wanted to admit it, there's also the occasions, um, when someone is asking us how you're doing, we might be afraid be honest because we don't want them to be fixing us.
00:23:44.263 --> 00:23:54.294
We don't want them to be, you know, deciding that there's, there's a number of solutions that we should follow.
00:23:54.314 --> 00:23:58.814
So maybe we're avoiding the interaction on purpose.
00:23:59.088 --> 00:24:01.489
So are we specifically talking about the husbands now?
00:24:03.638 --> 00:24:04.648
The ultimate fixers.
00:24:04.858 --> 00:24:06.098
I must fix all the things.
00:24:06.098 --> 00:24:07.229
I'm the man of the house.
00:24:07.229 --> 00:24:08.648
Let me fix the thing.
00:24:09.625 --> 00:24:10.246
Yeah, no kidding.
00:24:10.615 --> 00:24:16.056
Well, I think, I think you and I, and even our second year of this season
00:24:16.113 --> 00:24:16.123
Mm-hmm
00:24:16.546 --> 00:24:20.536
is a true example of how, I...
00:24:20.875 --> 00:24:27.536
For Laura and I, um, I think it's a year of, of, of conversation primarily.
00:24:28.036 --> 00:24:32.375
It's not a year of, of fixing and the five best tips
00:24:32.567 --> 00:24:32.926
No
00:24:33.306 --> 00:24:35.766
the next self-care practice.
00:24:36.256 --> 00:24:38.546
Um, I think we're okay
00:24:38.961 --> 00:24:39.310
Yeah.
00:24:39.615 --> 00:24:40.605
the way we are,
00:24:40.780 --> 00:24:41.141
Yeah
00:24:41.746 --> 00:24:50.715
having a conversation about historically what, what saying I'm fine might have, you know, looked like in the past.
00:24:51.165 --> 00:24:55.645
We're hoping that this episode that you, that you just think about.
00:24:55.675 --> 00:25:07.516
Think about what you're doing and perhaps what your excuses are, and possibly what you would prefer to be saying and what you would hope would happen because of that
00:25:07.921 --> 00:25:09.570
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:10.021 --> 00:25:10.392
Right?
00:25:10.770 --> 00:25:11.050
Yep.
00:25:11.861 --> 00:25:12.201
Agreed
00:25:12.251 --> 00:25:15.451
been, you know, it's been so long that it, that it's automatic.
00:25:16.622 --> 00:25:27.561
it, it does become a habit, and it does become a coping strategy, it does become, you know, it, it, it becomes the way, but it doesn't, it doesn't have to be.
00:25:27.571 --> 00:25:27.932
So
00:25:28.199 --> 00:25:28.358
No
00:25:28.662 --> 00:25:30.692
you know, just giving yourself permission
00:25:31.153 --> 00:25:31.613
Yeah
00:25:32.511 --> 00:25:36.041
to handle that differently as I did on that day of Starbucks.
00:25:36.061 --> 00:25:37.721
I just decided to be honest,
00:25:38.295 --> 00:25:39.654
No, I love, I love that you did.
00:25:39.684 --> 00:25:40.005
Yeah
00:25:40.021 --> 00:25:40.471
Yeah.
00:25:40.531 --> 00:25:44.801
Yeah, because how many"I'm fines" do they receive?
00:25:44.821 --> 00:25:55.372
And, and isn't, isn't relationships and interact real stuff about being honest with each other even if it's hard and
00:25:55.376 --> 00:25:55.656
Yes.
00:25:56.071 --> 00:25:56.092
You
00:25:56.346 --> 00:25:56.686
Yes.
00:25:56.797 --> 00:25:57.116
Yes.
00:25:57.326 --> 00:26:05.656
Well, again, the other thing that I love about it is I've gotta, gotta, you know, say this again, is especially now in our culture where we're so disconnected,
00:26:06.023 --> 00:26:06.453
Right
00:26:06.457 --> 00:26:15.967
be able to allow that, um, connection with someone on a very real level, especially if they're someone of a younger generation, right?
00:26:16.376 --> 00:26:25.527
Um, and, you know, I just think that's so important to, you know, give that to ourselves and, and to the other person that, you know, that you're interacting with.
00:26:25.537 --> 00:26:27.727
So I, I love that you did that for a lot of reasons.
00:26:28.458 --> 00:26:28.567
Yeah.
00:26:28.627 --> 00:26:28.798
Yeah.
00:26:28.798 --> 00:26:38.857
So maybe the question isn't whether we're fine, it's maybe the question is whether we've gotten so used to saying it that we've stopped noticing what we're actually carrying.
00:26:39.217 --> 00:26:39.596
Yeah
00:26:39.738 --> 00:26:59.978
And so maybe following this episode, you can take those moments of reflection that we talked about that are so important for recovery and for really understanding how you're really feeling and what you're going through and what you may need from someone else just by saying,"You know, it's been a rough day." And we've all had them.
00:27:00.560 --> 00:27:00.971
Yep.
00:27:00.980 --> 00:27:00.990
Oh
00:27:01.018 --> 00:27:01.518
all had them,
00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:01.540
yeah
00:27:01.877 --> 00:27:07.577
and what an opportunity to, um, step up, um, for somebody else.
00:27:07.587 --> 00:27:10.817
So I think that's why we wanted to have this conversation this week.
00:27:11.388 --> 00:27:11.669
Absolutely
00:27:11.807 --> 00:27:13.198
it's, it's an important one.
00:27:13.208 --> 00:27:13.597
It's...
00:27:13.607 --> 00:27:14.178
You're right.
00:27:14.188 --> 00:27:24.508
It's relevant and, uh, given the lack of, of, of interaction and conversations that, that are going on, I think this is a good place to start.
00:27:24.508 --> 00:27:24.978
So
00:27:25.310 --> 00:27:25.661
Yep, agree
00:27:26.367 --> 00:27:26.637
yeah.
00:27:26.698 --> 00:27:38.428
Um, so maybe this week, maybe, maybe if someone asks you how you're really doing and you, know they genuinely wanna answer, what might you say?
00:27:38.865 --> 00:27:39.194
Yeah.
00:27:40.208 --> 00:27:40.557
Right?
00:27:40.577 --> 00:27:40.817
Think
00:27:41.105 --> 00:27:41.355
Yeah
00:27:41.458 --> 00:27:42.498
What might you say?
00:27:42.508 --> 00:27:46.067
How are you gonna let people in, um, with where you're at?
00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:47.391
Yeah, be brave.
00:27:47.590 --> 00:27:48.030
Be brave
00:27:48.357 --> 00:27:48.917
Be, be brave.
00:27:48.917 --> 00:27:50.788
So I think we'll wrap it up this week,
00:27:51.250 --> 00:27:51.750
Yes, ma'am
00:27:52.298 --> 00:28:00.147
and we hope you enjoyed our conversation'cause that's what this is, and we're glad you're in it
00:28:00.625 --> 00:28:01.005
Yes.
00:28:01.035 --> 00:28:01.305
Yes.
00:28:01.315 --> 00:28:10.355
And don't forget to find us on Facebook and Instagram, and you can find us on our private Facebook group, Conversations Beyond Borders With You.
00:28:10.974 --> 00:28:17.164
And don't forget to like and subscribe and do all the wonderful things that help other people find us
00:28:17.509 --> 00:28:17.819
Yeah.
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.650
That really, that really helps us.
00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:21.329
So until next time.
00:28:21.696 --> 00:28:21.957
Okay, bye
00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:23.390
Bye.
