speaker-0: Welcome to the Morrison Global Podcast, the show that brings you inspiring conversations from around the world. Along the way, we'll dive into the latest market insights, explore human topics like wellbeing and personal growth, and uncover trends shaping the accounting and finance industry. Whether you're looking to stay ahead in your field, gain fresh perspectives, or simply connect with stories that inspire, you're in the right place. So join us as we ignite change and connect communities across the globe. Welcome back to Conversations With, a podcast brought to you by Morrison Global. I'm Georgie Baker, and today I am delighted to be joined by a keynote speaker, success coach, performance trainer, and the phrase that really stuck with me, a stress defense expert, the wonderful Sue Wedsworth. Sue and I met at a recent conference in Panama, and we ended up in one of those conversations that starts a small talk. and turns into something you're still thinking about weeks later. Sue holds an MBA and a BA in Organizational Psychology and now supports leaders and professionals to break through the hidden barriers that create unnecessary stress and quietly cap their performance, often without them even realizing it's happening. She brings more than 35 years of experience spanning business, banking, organizational development, and post-secondary education. It's a rare combination. Sue hasn't just studied performance psychology from the outside, she's lived it from inside boardrooms, banks, and classrooms. And that shows in how she talks about it. Practical, grounded, no fluff. What struck me in Panama wasn't just that Sue understands stress intellectually. It was how she approaches managing it. Not as something to eliminate, but as something to build real capacity around, so people can thrive under pressure instead of just surviving it. We've talked about belief, focus, capacity, and what it really takes to sustain high performance without burning out. And I walked away thinking really differently about my own stress. And so now it's time to share our conversation with you. And I'm delighted to you've joined us. So welcome to the show. How are you?
speaker-1: Thank you so much. I am fantastic. How are you doing, Georgie?
speaker-0: Yeah, not too bad at all. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. As you know, I'm quite new to professional services, but a term that I have got to understand very quickly is busy season. And I know that we talked about the busy season and often it's viewed as simply part of the professional services profession. Do you think there's a healthier way to approach high demand periods without sacrificing performance?
speaker-1: ⁓ yes, absolutely. A lot of people believe that busy season is really just about the time to buckle down and work harder. They work longer hours and it's just something to get past or endure. But if you think about it, it really isn't about pushing harder. It's about making sure that you have the capacity reserves to withstand it and continue after that. That's one of the reasons why so many people, you know, fall apart in May, because they've been going, going, going until the April deadlines. You know, a lot of it is really about making sure that you are putting in recovery periods before, as well as making sure that you're not going into busy season already depleted of capacity. Because of course, that just makes it even worse. If you think about running a marathon. People just don't decide, hey, I'm gonna run a marathon tomorrow and see what happens. No, there's training that's involved. And any type of professional athlete, for example, that might I know you and I might run a marathon, but any type of professional athlete, they put recovery, that's part of their program training. So there's gotta be some elements of mini or micro recovery sessions during that time. And then secondly, it's got to be something that they're prepared for. I know a lot of younger employees, for example, in that industry, they're not used to that, those longer hours pushing harder. Again, a lot of it happens. What are you doing before the busy season? And what are you doing during the busy season to make sure it's not something that is overwhelming?
speaker-0: What you're saying there is about, it's got to be sustainable because we do know that every year there will be a busy season. So it's not a surprise. We have to function afterwards. It's not as if the work stops the minute that that busy season finishes.
speaker-1: And a lot of people believe that, ⁓ it's okay. You know what? I'll just have a two week vacation in May and then I'll be fine. You know, let's look at partners. Not all of them are able to completely leave work for two weeks. There's still work continues throughout that time. So it's having that recovery, those micro recovery preparation, getting those things into routine.
speaker-0: interesting. So something else I was thinking about, if we look at leadership, what do you think separates leaders who sustain high performance over decades from those who eventually burn out?
speaker-1: A lot of it is psychological and habitual. If you look at an established leader, they are the ones that again have a routine of recovery. So they won't necessarily work through lunch. They'll take maybe a five minute walk, maybe even if it's just a walk around the office to see how their staff is doing. Sometimes that can be a bit of a a micro recovery. So you have some of these habits that these successful leaders will develop, continuous learning, for example, not just the courses that they have to take for their professional development, you know, things that they want to take to stimulate their mind and enjoyment, things like that. And being able to look towards things with opportunity as opposed to, you know, that push, push, push, everybody has to push harder. That's a very, very different mindset and very, very different habits.
speaker-0: Many accounting professionals who do become leaders are because they're technically excellent. But some of the things you're talking about now suggest that there are other skills to leadership that we need to think about. So what leadership skills do you think are the most important ones once you are responsible for leading people instead of just producing great work?
speaker-1: Some of the greatest skills for accountants are being able to spot errors, being able to think critically. And when they become leaders, they almost have to remove that aspect of their personality when they deal with their staff. Because as soon as they start, you know, looking at this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong, they're not just pointing out an error in themselves, they're pointing out an error in their staff. So Communication is very, very critical. Building trust is very, very critical. Looking from a coaching or mentoring lens as opposed to a skill development lens, because most of the staff have the skills necessary to do the job. They just need the emotional support. Because what'll end up happening is if the leaders provide too much of a critical lens, then The confidence will start to erode a little bit. The employees will start to second guess. They'll be coming to those leaders more and more, asking for answers and clarifications rather than trusting their own skill. And that'll start to really create this negative spiral of, well, does this employee not know what she's doing or he's doing? Why do they keep asking me questions? And then that just makes everything worse because it gums up the time and everything else. So You know, communication, building trust, building their confidence, mentoring in those productive skills in a positive way, being curious, asking questions versus being critical.
speaker-0: It's really interesting because it is self-repetuating. you constantly give feedback, then actually what you're creating is doubt rather than that sense of ability and capacity.
speaker-1: And we become focused in, and this is just most of our brains, but especially when you're dealing with a task-oriented job like accounting, now they have to become people oriented. You know, it's a very, very different skill set. So when you're constantly focusing in on those errors, it's not just this is an error, fix it. It's okay, how can we stop this error from happening? Why does it keep happening? What can the employee learn? from that mistake so that they are more decisive, more confident in their own abilities.
speaker-0: Given that, mean, accountants essentially what they're trained in is identifying risks, errors on what can go wrong. Like it's very hard for them to completely close down those skills that they're needed for their job. Are they strengths in any way when it comes to confidence, leadership and decision-making? Or do you think really it is about bringing the human element into how they nurture their staff?
speaker-1: ⁓ no, absolutely. This is one of my favorite questions because they are trained to spot what's wrong. And in a strategic perspective, when you're expanding a business. So from a true partner perspective, when you're trying to develop the business, leading and growing in that capacity, those skills are extremely important. I mean, they advise other business entrepreneurs all the time on what they need to do. So from a Business growth perspective, those skills are extremely valuable. Assuming they're not looking at spotting errors in everybody else as well as themselves. So sometimes what happens is a new leader will have that pressure thrown on them. And they start to second guess themselves. They start to develop a little bit of self-doubt because now the pressure in their mind has built up that much more. While it's great in terms of a business skill, they have to make sure that they are confident in their own people managing abilities in their own leadership skills. I think attention to detail is a very, very good leadership skill that works great as long as it's not in that critical lens. It's in more of a curiosity development lens. Okay, let's see what we can do to make sure that that doesn't happen again. Just similar to the advice and we're the worst people in following our advice for others to apply it to ourselves, right? So we'll have these business leadership conversations and say, Okay, these are the things that you can do, but have it apply to ourselves. Yeah, no, it's a very, very different game.
speaker-0: lot of people that we work with, they like to develop leaders within their firms. But often it's at the individuals that don't necessarily see themselves in positions of leadership. So what do you think are the hidden barriers that prevent talented accounting professionals from stepping into leadership roles or reaching their full potential? And how can we work with them to overcome them?
speaker-1: I think that's a great one. You know, for me, the big one is, and I'm gonna narrow in on one of the things that you said, that they don't see themselves in a leadership capacity. And so my first question with respect to that individual is again, are they seeing them because they're proficiently skilled and very good at what they do? So great, they can be an operations leader. But being a people leader or an HR leader, maybe not. So the question would be is to that individual first, do you see yourself in a leadership capacity? What about being a leader is something that you may enjoy? Because we can see leadership in a lot of other people. But honestly, if they have no interest in becoming a leader, asking somebody to do something, it's not that they're not ready or that they don't have confidence in themselves. Maybe it's just something that they Have really no interest in doing. So taking someone that has no interest in doing that and saying, yes, here you go, you're gonna be a leader and we're gonna make you a people person and we're gonna make you, ⁓ it's gonna be like pushing a boulder up a mountain. However, if you see skills and you see the ability to communicate with clients, if you see their proficiency skills in accounting, and you see the fact that they have the ability, but maybe there's some self-doubt. Maybe there is some people pleasing barriers. Maybe there's some perfectionism barriers. Really, what are those barriers that they might have? And it could be those three or any more or lots more that will allow them to basically, you know, people pleasing, imposter syndrome, all these things. And I think the idea is that it's really not a lack of ability. It's usually psychological. And the idea being is these things are protective strategies that people have developed over time. So it's really about building their strength through what they believe, the habits that they do, the energy that they have, the excitement that they have for the role, and then what is their capacity to be able to step into that role without overextending themselves. It's really about looking at those four critical areas and saying, okay, can this person develop in these areas? And then align them with a mentor, which is critical in that organization that can help bring those skills out in that individual.
speaker-0: That's a beautiful segue into my next question actually, because if I think about staff retention is something that we talk about a lot in professional services and how to find different ways to engage staff and keep talent. How do you think firms can improve retention by helping employees build capacity rather than just simply asking them to work harder? And I think that's an important question given what you're saying is actually it's not about doing the technical stuff that we know and more of it. It's about these other areas that we maybe don't think about and that's where we can build capacity. So talk to me a little bit more about that.
speaker-1: You know, I think some of the biggest disconnects are if you look at the generations of the accounting industry, you've got the partners that tend to be in a different generation, you know, a generation X, you know, in some cases even a little bit of baby boomerang. You know, they grew up with a very, very different work ethic and a very, very different philosophy with respect to hours of work. The generations that are coming into the industry and that are new to the industry have not been raised on that same type of work ethic, working longer hours to get the job done, that hasn't been put into their mindset. So now they're thrust into this environment and they're expected to just understand that this is what they need to be doing. That's a very difficult change for them. So first of all, the big thing is is they need to understand why working the amount of hours is necessary. And then from a capacity perspective, How can that connect to the values that they need to have? They want to have a career. They want to develop their skill set. They want to have a vertical career. That part hasn't changed. But working harder isn't the competitive advantage that it used to be. So they don't see it that way. For them, it's about how do we help them handle pressure? Making decisive, quicker decisions. That's a big one in the newer generations. Communicate effectively, even prioritization. More people are being identified with ADHD than ever before. And that some could argue is a focus skill. And focus is a skill. So if they struggle with that already, then being thrown into an environment with multiple priorities. At multiple times is going to be difficult for them to handle. So, how can they help them focus and prioritize so that they are more comfortable with that? And that will create a healthier culture in the workplace. And that will also want them to stay multifaceted answer with respect to employee retention. You've got skill set, you've got development, and you've got culture, basically.
speaker-0: And I think that's really interesting because it sort of makes me think back to something I said in the introduction, which is recognizing stress in the workplace. And whilst how we work may be different, stress still manifests in different ways. And I love that your approach is not to try and fight it, but to work with it.
speaker-1: Well, absolutely. Yeah.
speaker-0: And so I think in your work, you talk about building stress defense rather than simply just managing, like coping, know, surviving, not thriving. So what is the difference and why does this matter for leaders?
speaker-1: The way I look at stress defense is the way we view stress is either one of two ways. It's either positive or negative. And when I'm talking about stress defense, I'm talking about distress or negative stress. And you can have two individuals that will see a specific situation, let's say their first client engagement. One person will look at that and just simply go through it, have no issues. And the other person will look at it and be concerned about what the client thinks, what the boss thinks, what if I get this wrong? What about the mistakes? And they're creating distress around this environment, maybe unnecessarily. Now, the thing is that our brains are not wired for happiness. They are wired for protection. So when someone views a specific piece of environment or information coming at them. As being stressful. They can't see me doing the air quotes. Stressful. I just realized that. Okay, good. So what ends up happening is the brain will create a barrier that will help protect them. But in also doing that, it limits their performance. So they'll create a barrier for one of a better word of self-doubt. So to break through that barrier is part of the building stress defense. So one.
speaker-0: I can see it.
speaker-1: Have they created a barrier that limits their performance? What is that barrier? And then how do we break through that and make sure that when they have a similar experience, that the brain will normally create self-doubt, hence that barrier? They don't have that barrier built again. So it's creating that psychological strength, that emotional strength, so that when they look at a situation and their brain doesn't go into protection mode, it goes into competency mode. I can handle it. I can deal with this. I know exactly what to do, sort of going through that belief focused energy capacity. So I know I can do it. I know what to do. I have the energy to sustain it and I'm going to rock it basically. So that barrier is then gone. And that's the stress defense that they're actually creating. They're not having those barriers to their performance anymore.
speaker-0: essentially you're future-proofing people, aren't you? You're once again coming up with ways for sustainability. And that's what I love. Your lens is very much forward thinking. It's recognizing what's happening now, but it's also how can we build ourselves to be stronger tomorrow and in the future? And I think that is such an amazing investment into oneself, but also a leader into his team.
speaker-1: ⁓ absolutely. I mean, if they can pass down the way that people can build confidence, sustain focus, prioritize, make decisions, and build confidence to move forward, then these situations, even new situations, they'll be able to handle and go through without the distress many bodies can take on.
speaker-0: And my last question, and I actually think it's quite a fitting one. If you could give every accounting leader one practical strategy to improve their team's performance and wellbeing tomorrow, what would it be?
speaker-1: I think a lot of it is try not to look at things through a critical lens and look at it from a curiosity lens. Why is this employee being the way that they are? What actually are they struggling with? Try and be curious, ask questions, try and get them to reveal what actually it is. And that can take a lot of time and patience. And in this busy, busy profession, that's a real struggle. It is very, very rewarding for those leaders that take that extra time to invest in their employees and themselves to figure out what that actually is. So curiosity over correction.
speaker-0: We are always learning, aren't we? I I love yoga and we have very much a beginner's mind. So I think that curiosity not only will help the person that someone's being curious about, but it will also help the person who is expanding their thinking. So thank you, Sue. This has been such a fantastic conversation as I knew it would be. And I am delighted to say, I think this is the first of two conversations we are going to have together because you have so much to share and so much. that we can talk about. So thank you for this particular conversation. I think for me, the stands out were really about reframing how we look at capacity. It's not working harder. It's something you build deliberately. Being curious. You know, thank you for your insight and your generosity. For anyone listening, if you want to learn more about Sue's work, she has the most fantastic website and also does webinars and sessions. So I will share your contact details if I may. But also, encourage people to tune into our next conversation because I think there's more you would like to share Sue, is that right?
speaker-1: Absolutely. Always happy to share. And thank you so much for the opportunity. And it's such a pleasure to see you and help the accounting profession as much as I can.
speaker-0: Thank for the work you do, not only for us, but obviously all the people you connect with back home in Canada. Thank you for listening. If this episode gave you something to think about, do share it with a colleague who could use it and do join us next time when Sue and I get together and continue this very, very important conversation. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you for tuning in to the Morrison Global Podcast. We hope today's episode sparked new ideas, broadened your thinking and offered a fresh perspective. Don't forget to subscribe, share and stay with us as we continue exploring the insights and stories shaping our world. Until next time, stay curious, stay inspired and keep the conversations going.
speaker-1: Thank you so much. I am fantastic. How are you doing, Georgie?
speaker-0: Yeah, not too bad at all. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. As you know, I'm quite new to professional services, but a term that I have got to understand very quickly is busy season. And I know that we talked about the busy season and often it's viewed as simply part of the professional services profession. Do you think there's a healthier way to approach high demand periods without sacrificing performance?
speaker-1: ⁓ yes, absolutely. A lot of people believe that busy season is really just about the time to buckle down and work harder. They work longer hours and it's just something to get past or endure. But if you think about it, it really isn't about pushing harder. It's about making sure that you have the capacity reserves to withstand it and continue after that. That's one of the reasons why so many people, you know, fall apart in May, because they've been going, going, going until the April deadlines. You know, a lot of it is really about making sure that you are putting in recovery periods before, as well as making sure that you're not going into busy season already depleted of capacity. Because of course, that just makes it even worse. If you think about running a marathon. People just don't decide, hey, I'm gonna run a marathon tomorrow and see what happens. No, there's training that's involved. And any type of professional athlete, for example, that might I know you and I might run a marathon, but any type of professional athlete, they put recovery, that's part of their program training. So there's gotta be some elements of mini or micro recovery sessions during that time. And then secondly, it's got to be something that they're prepared for. I know a lot of younger employees, for example, in that industry, they're not used to that, those longer hours pushing harder. Again, a lot of it happens. What are you doing before the busy season? And what are you doing during the busy season to make sure it's not something that is overwhelming?
speaker-0: What you're saying there is about, it's got to be sustainable because we do know that every year there will be a busy season. So it's not a surprise. We have to function afterwards. It's not as if the work stops the minute that that busy season finishes.
speaker-1: And a lot of people believe that, ⁓ it's okay. You know what? I'll just have a two week vacation in May and then I'll be fine. You know, let's look at partners. Not all of them are able to completely leave work for two weeks. There's still work continues throughout that time. So it's having that recovery, those micro recovery preparation, getting those things into routine.
speaker-0: interesting. So something else I was thinking about, if we look at leadership, what do you think separates leaders who sustain high performance over decades from those who eventually burn out?
speaker-1: A lot of it is psychological and habitual. If you look at an established leader, they are the ones that again have a routine of recovery. So they won't necessarily work through lunch. They'll take maybe a five minute walk, maybe even if it's just a walk around the office to see how their staff is doing. Sometimes that can be a bit of a a micro recovery. So you have some of these habits that these successful leaders will develop, continuous learning, for example, not just the courses that they have to take for their professional development, you know, things that they want to take to stimulate their mind and enjoyment, things like that. And being able to look towards things with opportunity as opposed to, you know, that push, push, push, everybody has to push harder. That's a very, very different mindset and very, very different habits.
speaker-0: Many accounting professionals who do become leaders are because they're technically excellent. But some of the things you're talking about now suggest that there are other skills to leadership that we need to think about. So what leadership skills do you think are the most important ones once you are responsible for leading people instead of just producing great work?
speaker-1: Some of the greatest skills for accountants are being able to spot errors, being able to think critically. And when they become leaders, they almost have to remove that aspect of their personality when they deal with their staff. Because as soon as they start, you know, looking at this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong, they're not just pointing out an error in themselves, they're pointing out an error in their staff. So Communication is very, very critical. Building trust is very, very critical. Looking from a coaching or mentoring lens as opposed to a skill development lens, because most of the staff have the skills necessary to do the job. They just need the emotional support. Because what'll end up happening is if the leaders provide too much of a critical lens, then The confidence will start to erode a little bit. The employees will start to second guess. They'll be coming to those leaders more and more, asking for answers and clarifications rather than trusting their own skill. And that'll start to really create this negative spiral of, well, does this employee not know what she's doing or he's doing? Why do they keep asking me questions? And then that just makes everything worse because it gums up the time and everything else. So You know, communication, building trust, building their confidence, mentoring in those productive skills in a positive way, being curious, asking questions versus being critical.
speaker-0: It's really interesting because it is self-repetuating. you constantly give feedback, then actually what you're creating is doubt rather than that sense of ability and capacity.
speaker-1: And we become focused in, and this is just most of our brains, but especially when you're dealing with a task-oriented job like accounting, now they have to become people oriented. You know, it's a very, very different skill set. So when you're constantly focusing in on those errors, it's not just this is an error, fix it. It's okay, how can we stop this error from happening? Why does it keep happening? What can the employee learn? from that mistake so that they are more decisive, more confident in their own abilities.
speaker-0: Given that, mean, accountants essentially what they're trained in is identifying risks, errors on what can go wrong. Like it's very hard for them to completely close down those skills that they're needed for their job. Are they strengths in any way when it comes to confidence, leadership and decision-making? Or do you think really it is about bringing the human element into how they nurture their staff?
speaker-1: ⁓ no, absolutely. This is one of my favorite questions because they are trained to spot what's wrong. And in a strategic perspective, when you're expanding a business. So from a true partner perspective, when you're trying to develop the business, leading and growing in that capacity, those skills are extremely important. I mean, they advise other business entrepreneurs all the time on what they need to do. So from a Business growth perspective, those skills are extremely valuable. Assuming they're not looking at spotting errors in everybody else as well as themselves. So sometimes what happens is a new leader will have that pressure thrown on them. And they start to second guess themselves. They start to develop a little bit of self-doubt because now the pressure in their mind has built up that much more. While it's great in terms of a business skill, they have to make sure that they are confident in their own people managing abilities in their own leadership skills. I think attention to detail is a very, very good leadership skill that works great as long as it's not in that critical lens. It's in more of a curiosity development lens. Okay, let's see what we can do to make sure that that doesn't happen again. Just similar to the advice and we're the worst people in following our advice for others to apply it to ourselves, right? So we'll have these business leadership conversations and say, Okay, these are the things that you can do, but have it apply to ourselves. Yeah, no, it's a very, very different game.
speaker-0: lot of people that we work with, they like to develop leaders within their firms. But often it's at the individuals that don't necessarily see themselves in positions of leadership. So what do you think are the hidden barriers that prevent talented accounting professionals from stepping into leadership roles or reaching their full potential? And how can we work with them to overcome them?
speaker-1: I think that's a great one. You know, for me, the big one is, and I'm gonna narrow in on one of the things that you said, that they don't see themselves in a leadership capacity. And so my first question with respect to that individual is again, are they seeing them because they're proficiently skilled and very good at what they do? So great, they can be an operations leader. But being a people leader or an HR leader, maybe not. So the question would be is to that individual first, do you see yourself in a leadership capacity? What about being a leader is something that you may enjoy? Because we can see leadership in a lot of other people. But honestly, if they have no interest in becoming a leader, asking somebody to do something, it's not that they're not ready or that they don't have confidence in themselves. Maybe it's just something that they Have really no interest in doing. So taking someone that has no interest in doing that and saying, yes, here you go, you're gonna be a leader and we're gonna make you a people person and we're gonna make you, ⁓ it's gonna be like pushing a boulder up a mountain. However, if you see skills and you see the ability to communicate with clients, if you see their proficiency skills in accounting, and you see the fact that they have the ability, but maybe there's some self-doubt. Maybe there is some people pleasing barriers. Maybe there's some perfectionism barriers. Really, what are those barriers that they might have? And it could be those three or any more or lots more that will allow them to basically, you know, people pleasing, imposter syndrome, all these things. And I think the idea is that it's really not a lack of ability. It's usually psychological. And the idea being is these things are protective strategies that people have developed over time. So it's really about building their strength through what they believe, the habits that they do, the energy that they have, the excitement that they have for the role, and then what is their capacity to be able to step into that role without overextending themselves. It's really about looking at those four critical areas and saying, okay, can this person develop in these areas? And then align them with a mentor, which is critical in that organization that can help bring those skills out in that individual.
speaker-0: That's a beautiful segue into my next question actually, because if I think about staff retention is something that we talk about a lot in professional services and how to find different ways to engage staff and keep talent. How do you think firms can improve retention by helping employees build capacity rather than just simply asking them to work harder? And I think that's an important question given what you're saying is actually it's not about doing the technical stuff that we know and more of it. It's about these other areas that we maybe don't think about and that's where we can build capacity. So talk to me a little bit more about that.
speaker-1: You know, I think some of the biggest disconnects are if you look at the generations of the accounting industry, you've got the partners that tend to be in a different generation, you know, a generation X, you know, in some cases even a little bit of baby boomerang. You know, they grew up with a very, very different work ethic and a very, very different philosophy with respect to hours of work. The generations that are coming into the industry and that are new to the industry have not been raised on that same type of work ethic, working longer hours to get the job done, that hasn't been put into their mindset. So now they're thrust into this environment and they're expected to just understand that this is what they need to be doing. That's a very difficult change for them. So first of all, the big thing is is they need to understand why working the amount of hours is necessary. And then from a capacity perspective, How can that connect to the values that they need to have? They want to have a career. They want to develop their skill set. They want to have a vertical career. That part hasn't changed. But working harder isn't the competitive advantage that it used to be. So they don't see it that way. For them, it's about how do we help them handle pressure? Making decisive, quicker decisions. That's a big one in the newer generations. Communicate effectively, even prioritization. More people are being identified with ADHD than ever before. And that some could argue is a focus skill. And focus is a skill. So if they struggle with that already, then being thrown into an environment with multiple priorities. At multiple times is going to be difficult for them to handle. So, how can they help them focus and prioritize so that they are more comfortable with that? And that will create a healthier culture in the workplace. And that will also want them to stay multifaceted answer with respect to employee retention. You've got skill set, you've got development, and you've got culture, basically.
speaker-0: And I think that's really interesting because it sort of makes me think back to something I said in the introduction, which is recognizing stress in the workplace. And whilst how we work may be different, stress still manifests in different ways. And I love that your approach is not to try and fight it, but to work with it.
speaker-1: Well, absolutely. Yeah.
speaker-0: And so I think in your work, you talk about building stress defense rather than simply just managing, like coping, know, surviving, not thriving. So what is the difference and why does this matter for leaders?
speaker-1: The way I look at stress defense is the way we view stress is either one of two ways. It's either positive or negative. And when I'm talking about stress defense, I'm talking about distress or negative stress. And you can have two individuals that will see a specific situation, let's say their first client engagement. One person will look at that and just simply go through it, have no issues. And the other person will look at it and be concerned about what the client thinks, what the boss thinks, what if I get this wrong? What about the mistakes? And they're creating distress around this environment, maybe unnecessarily. Now, the thing is that our brains are not wired for happiness. They are wired for protection. So when someone views a specific piece of environment or information coming at them. As being stressful. They can't see me doing the air quotes. Stressful. I just realized that. Okay, good. So what ends up happening is the brain will create a barrier that will help protect them. But in also doing that, it limits their performance. So they'll create a barrier for one of a better word of self-doubt. So to break through that barrier is part of the building stress defense. So one.
speaker-0: I can see it.
speaker-1: Have they created a barrier that limits their performance? What is that barrier? And then how do we break through that and make sure that when they have a similar experience, that the brain will normally create self-doubt, hence that barrier? They don't have that barrier built again. So it's creating that psychological strength, that emotional strength, so that when they look at a situation and their brain doesn't go into protection mode, it goes into competency mode. I can handle it. I can deal with this. I know exactly what to do, sort of going through that belief focused energy capacity. So I know I can do it. I know what to do. I have the energy to sustain it and I'm going to rock it basically. So that barrier is then gone. And that's the stress defense that they're actually creating. They're not having those barriers to their performance anymore.
speaker-0: essentially you're future-proofing people, aren't you? You're once again coming up with ways for sustainability. And that's what I love. Your lens is very much forward thinking. It's recognizing what's happening now, but it's also how can we build ourselves to be stronger tomorrow and in the future? And I think that is such an amazing investment into oneself, but also a leader into his team.
speaker-1: ⁓ absolutely. I mean, if they can pass down the way that people can build confidence, sustain focus, prioritize, make decisions, and build confidence to move forward, then these situations, even new situations, they'll be able to handle and go through without the distress many bodies can take on.
speaker-0: And my last question, and I actually think it's quite a fitting one. If you could give every accounting leader one practical strategy to improve their team's performance and wellbeing tomorrow, what would it be?
speaker-1: I think a lot of it is try not to look at things through a critical lens and look at it from a curiosity lens. Why is this employee being the way that they are? What actually are they struggling with? Try and be curious, ask questions, try and get them to reveal what actually it is. And that can take a lot of time and patience. And in this busy, busy profession, that's a real struggle. It is very, very rewarding for those leaders that take that extra time to invest in their employees and themselves to figure out what that actually is. So curiosity over correction.
speaker-0: We are always learning, aren't we? I I love yoga and we have very much a beginner's mind. So I think that curiosity not only will help the person that someone's being curious about, but it will also help the person who is expanding their thinking. So thank you, Sue. This has been such a fantastic conversation as I knew it would be. And I am delighted to say, I think this is the first of two conversations we are going to have together because you have so much to share and so much. that we can talk about. So thank you for this particular conversation. I think for me, the stands out were really about reframing how we look at capacity. It's not working harder. It's something you build deliberately. Being curious. You know, thank you for your insight and your generosity. For anyone listening, if you want to learn more about Sue's work, she has the most fantastic website and also does webinars and sessions. So I will share your contact details if I may. But also, encourage people to tune into our next conversation because I think there's more you would like to share Sue, is that right?
speaker-1: Absolutely. Always happy to share. And thank you so much for the opportunity. And it's such a pleasure to see you and help the accounting profession as much as I can.
speaker-0: Thank for the work you do, not only for us, but obviously all the people you connect with back home in Canada. Thank you for listening. If this episode gave you something to think about, do share it with a colleague who could use it and do join us next time when Sue and I get together and continue this very, very important conversation. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you for tuning in to the Morrison Global Podcast. We hope today's episode sparked new ideas, broadened your thinking and offered a fresh perspective. Don't forget to subscribe, share and stay with us as we continue exploring the insights and stories shaping our world. Until next time, stay curious, stay inspired and keep the conversations going.
