From Consultant to Changemaker: Annabel Tonge on Purpose in Action

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Hello and welcome to another Conversations at
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the Summit brought to you by Climb UK. I'm Tanya
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Arnold and on this episode, time is precious.
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Social impact isn't just about giving money,
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but providing purpose. How many times have we
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seen the piece of paper or the thing on the wall
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that says this is who we are? And people walk
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past and go, that's not who we are. People aren't
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stupid, but we all can see it. You've got to
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live your purpose. It takes years, years sometimes.
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to build trust and it takes seconds to destroy
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it. People don't buy what you do, they buy why
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you do it. And you're selling that to people
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who are like -minded and they're the people that
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you want on the bus. We're joined by Annabelle
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Tonge, a director at Q5 and its foundation director
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and alongside her, as ever, Klim's very own Gordon
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Bateman. Annabelle, before we talk about Q5 and
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the work that you're doing there, I wanted to
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take you all the way back to Bingley, where you
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were grown up and a career that has taken you
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as far away from there, but all the way back
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to Yorkshire at the same time. Yes, that's true,
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actually. I grew up in Bingley, very happily
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grew up in Bingley, but left when I was 18 and
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never really came back. I don't know if my parents
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were happy or sad about that, but that's basically
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what happened. I went to Edinburgh Uni and then
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from there I pursued a career that took me around
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the world. In fact, you can probably sum it up
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by saying I have three children that were all
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born in three continents, three different continents,
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and none of them were born in the UK. It's a
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nice, neat way of saying what happened to me
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in my 20s and my 30s. was the job that took you
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around the world? So I worked for Pratchett &
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Gamble. I was very lucky. I spent the first sort
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of 20 odd years of my career in corporates. And
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I worked for Pratchett & Gamble for about 11
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years before moving. Well, actually, it's too
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long to explain, really. But before moving to
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Ireland and when I moved to Ireland, I left P
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&G and I joined a company called Apple Green,
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which is a fabulous move, became their marketing
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and sales global director and from there, SSE
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Utilities. And then from there, Spring brought
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it back eventually to Yorkshire. So now I'm actually
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living in Leeds, which is great. I mean, it's
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a hell of a career, a hell of a career path.
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What was it like? It was fun, really great fun.
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20s and 30s to me were about adventure. I think
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everybody has a different purpose that they want
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to pursue, and we're going to talk about that
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today. But I was very lucky to meet my husband
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in my early 20s, and we had a very similar ethos
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about life. Life was for living, life was for
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enjoying, and for learning, and for meeting great
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people, and having a positive career path along
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the way. And that's really what we did. And actually,
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if I'm honest, that's still what we're doing.
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Even as we're now into our 50s, that's still
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what we're doing. We're just doing it in different
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ways now. But once you have kids thrown into
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that, it becomes quite a juggle, doesn't it?
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It does. It does. And again, that's something
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that we're going to talk about today is purpose.
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But actually, purpose as you move through life
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does change. I think people think, oh, I need
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to know what my purpose is. There's a lot of
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chat about purpose, as we know, and making an
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impact. But actually, it's not an end point.
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It's a journey. And the purpose that I had and
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the objectives I had in my 20s and 30s had to
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change in the 30s and 40s and have changed again
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since. That's the same for everybody. So what
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brought you back to Yorkshire finally? So again,
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it was career. Interestingly, I'm from Yorkshire,
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my husband's from Ireland, but it was his career
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that brought us back. He was offered a role to
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expand his capability and we moved back to Leeds.
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That was a good space for him. That was where
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my family was. And then I joined Hallmark Cards
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actually as the managing director there and I
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ran the M &S division for a few years. Yeah,
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and that was great from up and down to London.
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So let's jump to Q5. What is Q5 for a start as
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a company? Q5 is a management consulting firm.
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It's a mid -sized firm, so it's not as big as
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Accenture or EY, but they would be some of our
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competitors in the market. But we specialise
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in organisational health. But really what it
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means is we try and make companies healthier.
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It's usually complex, intertwined ways that we
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do that, but it covers a myriad of things like
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strategy, organisational design, actually how
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you're structured for success as well as how
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you're set up for success, leadership development,
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high -performing teams. Do you have the culture
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to make things work? And do you have the infrastructure,
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things like IT, do you have the right systems?
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And now increasingly AI, of course. Gordon, as
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you all know from the work that you do. So, yeah,
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so we usually come in at points of change or
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when companies are trying to change. And we put
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together, a bit like Avengers Assemble, I always
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think we put together experts from all these
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different aspects. We bring them together and
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we create bespoke programs to help companies
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become healthier, more productive, more efficient,
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happier and more successful ultimately. And it
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is the toughest part of the business, isn't it,
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of any business, is the people side of what they're
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doing. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. People
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say it's the soft skill, right? It's the soft
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skill stuff. But it's always the hard stuff.
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When you go into businesses, and I've been into
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multiple businesses now and we do a diagnostic,
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it's not uncommon for people to say. You've never
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seen this before. We're completely unique. And
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these are our issues. These are our knotty challenges.
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And they're the same challenges. And invariably,
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mostly it's about the people. People struggling
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with systems, people struggling with change or
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just some underlying issues. So, yeah, so it
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is. It's often seen as the soft stuff, but it's
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often the hardest stuff too. And what was your
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role in Q5 up in Yorkshire? So I joined them
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seven years ago to set up the Leeds office, which
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we did and route them in the locality. They were
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based, had an office in London. They had offices
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around the world, but they didn't have anything
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up north. So I opened up the northern office.
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And then, interestingly, when COVID came. I became
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the marketing director. It was the obvious thing
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to do. Everything that they were doing at the
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time was face -to -face. Nobody could do that
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anymore. And I had the skills from my previous
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career to do that. So I set up the global marketing
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enterprise for them and then moved in just in
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January this year to become the foundation director,
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really looking at the heart and the purpose of
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Q5 and what it is that we're trying to achieve
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from a higher point of view. Why do you think
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only seven years ago they finally wanted a presence
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in the North? So they were up and down in the
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north and they realised a few things. One is
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to truly understand organisations locally, they
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needed to be based locally. They wanted to provide
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a base as well for Q5s to live outside of London.
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As we know, it's extremely expensive. They wanted
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as well to expand the organisation. So it was
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those three things. They knew they couldn't do
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it from London in a meaningful way and they knew
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it was the right thing to do for the businesses
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that we were serving up here. You're travelling
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all over the world with clients. Yeah. But even
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in the UK, I assume that when you're doing design
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and looking at organisational health from different
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regions of the UK, it's a different culture and
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a different... Is that right or not? Yeah, everywhere
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we go, there is a nuance to culture. So we've
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got organisations that we work with in Australia.
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We've got a couple of offices over there. We've
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got a couple of offices in the US. We're just
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opening one in Saudi Arabia. We've one in Oman.
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So it's very different, absolutely. When you're
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in a new country with new norms, you have to
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work within those norms. And even within the
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same country, if you're in Leeds versus London,
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I would argue that there are nuances and there
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are differences, absolutely. Which is often overlooked,
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isn't it? Within organisations, people just think,
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I'm going to open an office in wherever. Yes,
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they do. And don't think, actually, that's fundamentally
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wholly different than where I am right now. Absolutely,
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yeah. And sometimes that's when we come in because...
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Maybe certain offices haven't worked, they failed
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for certain reasons. You need to do a diagnostic,
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you need to understand, and then you have to
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reset and go again. And have you found those
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different cultures have very different leadership
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principles and those soft skills that then sort
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of flow down from how you lead? Yes, I mean,
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absolutely. The culture that you operate in will
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dictate some of the leadership skills. I mean,
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I know that from my own point of view. When I
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worked in Hong Kong, having face... You might
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have heard that expression, but showing face
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to your superiors or people that were older than
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you was part of the culture. It's part of the
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social culture there. And so it was very hard
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to actually say something direct to someone who
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was either directly above you. And if you did,
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it would have been very embarrassing for the
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person that you were talking to. So you had to
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create new ways to get around that and basically
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work within the culture so that you could say
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things, but you said them in a respectful way.
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Whereas we moved, actually, interestingly. from
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Hong Kong to the US and it was like a pendulum
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swing. If you didn't say something to somebody
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directly to their face, they just, they wouldn't
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have heard you necessarily in New York. You had
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to be much more direct. It's been a big part
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of what we've been doing at Climb is around helping
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companies internationalise, either coming into
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the UK or UK companies moving externally. And
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it's just one thing we talk to companies about
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is understanding the culture and the dynamism
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of the place that you're going to. But again,
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it's something that we see a lot of people just
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don't, either don't know how to do it or they
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just don't know they need to do that. And we
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see a failure all the time. So is there anything
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you could say to people who are listening to
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this that'd be helpful if they're thinking of,
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from your experience of doing that, of what they
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should look out for? Absolutely. I mean, everywhere
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you go is going to be slightly different. It's
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interesting that... I have colleagues who come
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up from London and they come to Leeds and you're
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walking through the train station in Leeds and
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invariably you'll say hello to a few people.
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Not that you know them, but it's just the culture
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of Leeds, isn't it? And people are like, how
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are you doing? You're all right, yeah. And you'll
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get through the train station and then they'll
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say, because you know everyone. I don't know
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anyone in the train. It's just the culture. And
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that's 200 miles apart. So if that kind of gives
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you, whereas in London you get off the train,
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it's really busy. There are thousands of people.
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You can't do that in the same way. Or you make
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eye contact on the tube and somebody thinks there's
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something wrong with you. Yeah, exactly. It's
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just different dynamics. So the best thing you
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can do is spend time and listen. Listen to people.
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People who live there, ask loads of questions.
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Don't move to a location and assume you know
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everything. Be a sponge. That's what I would
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say. And take all that on board before you make
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certain decisions. And do you find that often
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global companies will take somebody that they
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know is successful from one culture and ping
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them into another one and that's one of the mistakes
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that they do? Yes, this person is a proven leader.
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but in a different culture and they don't necessarily
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give them the grounding to move from one culture
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to another. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, often very
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ambitious people want to go and set up offices
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in new locations and it's a phenomenal opportunity
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if you get that. We've had that within Q5 where
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we've had people who wanted to go to Australia
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and set up an office or the US and set up an
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office. So it's a great opportunity. But actually,
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you do need to put the wraparound care around
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them a little bit because you don't know what
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you don't know. You just don't know what you
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don't know. And that's often where the leadership
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development comes in and the orientation work
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needs to come in so that they're properly supported
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because it's not in anybody's interest to land
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and crash and burn. I mean, nobody wants that.
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So, yeah, absolutely, you do need to do that.
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And I would recommend companies that they do
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that. You mentioned COVID and how it changed
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your role. Did it change the company's role or
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shift at all in terms of not being able to do
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what they were doing, but maybe have a rethink
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about some of what they were doing? Yeah, I mean,
00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.299
I think COVID changed everything, didn't it?
00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:32.740
I mean, either temporarily or more longer term,
00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:36.019
it had a massive impact. I think for Q5, there
00:11:36.019 --> 00:11:38.919
are two things. that it changed one was how we
00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.000
operate just like it did for everybody else remote
00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.379
working but remote consulting work was interesting
00:11:44.379 --> 00:11:46.820
we had to set up online workshops where normally
00:11:46.820 --> 00:11:48.620
we're in the room you've got lots of post -it
00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:50.879
notes and you're debating and and all that kind
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:52.600
of stuff we had to be able to operate online
00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:54.679
that was a huge shift not just for us but for
00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:57.620
the whole consulting world um i think culturally
00:11:57.620 --> 00:12:02.320
it had a major impact as it did to a lot of businesses.
00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:06.620
COVID gave a time for reflection. And this is
00:12:06.620 --> 00:12:09.059
actually where purpose has become more dialed
00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:11.779
up actually now in the workplace. But it was
00:12:11.779 --> 00:12:13.139
a time for reflection. If you were sitting at
00:12:13.139 --> 00:12:15.899
your kitchen table, you might as well have been
00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:18.700
working for anyone. And that was true for Q5
00:12:18.700 --> 00:12:20.840
as it was for other companies. So actually, one
00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:22.919
of the great things that came out of COVID for
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:25.919
us was a bit of a pivot for us in terms of the
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:29.980
foundation. We knew we were limited in what we
00:12:29.980 --> 00:12:32.860
could do in terms of the efforts to address COVID.
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:34.940
We were working with the NHS, actually, setting
00:12:34.940 --> 00:12:37.340
up the efforts for the Dragon's Heart down in
00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:39.899
Wales. But we knew as a broader company, we were
00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:43.080
limited. So we set up pop -up consulting. Pop
00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:45.559
-up consulting effectively, at that time, gave
00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.480
free consulting workshops and advice, usually
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.539
two days, to non -for -profits, charities and
00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:54.100
SMEs, anyone who couldn't normally afford a Q5,
00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:57.059
but was effectively struggling. of the pandemic.
00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:59.440
And we dealt with a whole range of issues at
00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.320
the time. Fundraising, I think at one point,
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.220
54 % of charities were looking at going under
00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:06.200
and that included some of the big charities because
00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:08.110
they couldn't do the... the coffee mornings they
00:13:08.110 --> 00:13:09.990
couldn't do, the London Marathon and all that
00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:12.669
kind of great stuff. And for SMEs, it was cash
00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:15.330
flow. They realised that actually cash flow was
00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:17.789
drawing to a halt. Nobody really understood what
00:13:17.789 --> 00:13:20.129
furlough was at the time and how do you make
00:13:20.129 --> 00:13:22.149
your cash flow run for the next 12 to 18 months
00:13:22.149 --> 00:13:24.909
so that you can still be in business when you
00:13:24.909 --> 00:13:27.090
come out the other end. So we set up pop -up
00:13:27.090 --> 00:13:30.009
consulting and five years later, as the foundation
00:13:30.009 --> 00:13:33.610
director, I oversee that work. We've supported
00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:37.269
over 170 different organisations. that time and
00:13:37.269 --> 00:13:39.090
we've dealt with all sorts of knotty problems
00:13:39.090 --> 00:13:42.129
but obviously as we move through covid and out
00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:45.429
the other side it so has the work so interestingly
00:13:45.429 --> 00:13:48.769
during covid it was almost fight or flight type
00:13:48.769 --> 00:13:50.610
work. And as we've moved since then, it's been
00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:54.629
more about purposeful work, strategy and building,
00:13:54.769 --> 00:13:57.789
building organisations, also responding to new
00:13:57.789 --> 00:14:00.570
challenges like AI. How do you build and grow
00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:02.789
and take advantage of those things? So it's a
00:14:02.789 --> 00:14:04.629
great thing. So it has impacted us in a really
00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:07.330
good way, actually, in the long term. I guess
00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:09.539
that's the thing, isn't it? We've seen a lot
00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:12.220
of organisations come out of COVID with now having
00:14:12.220 --> 00:14:15.279
a more purpose -driven culture within their organisations.
00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:19.120
Was it unanimous within Q5 that was a thing to
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:22.259
do or was there internal challenges to get this
00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:24.940
off the ground? No, it was the right thing to
00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:27.100
do. I think we all wanted to do something. It
00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:29.960
was the right thing to do. And also, for about
00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.200
three months, we had a bench. We didn't normally
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.759
have a bench because we're usually fully out
00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:37.620
with clients, but we had a bench and we wanted
00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:40.779
to keep... that bench also uh fully utilized
00:14:40.779 --> 00:14:43.600
and mentally healthy quite frankly because otherwise
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.700
people were sitting at home watching the news
00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:49.580
and that wasn't particularly healthy so it was
00:14:49.580 --> 00:14:51.200
a kind of a combination of looking after our
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.159
own people but also wanting to do the right thing
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.139
externally because because i do hear a lot of
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:57.059
founders we talked about this in july as well
00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:00.240
at climb is that a lot of founders of smes want
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.940
to do something you know they they have a purpose
00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.919
They recruit people around a purpose, but then
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:09.220
they don't know what to do. And then once it
00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:11.139
starts, the ball starts rolling against them.
00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:12.860
What was it like right at the beginning when
00:15:12.860 --> 00:15:15.320
you came up with the idea of we should do a foundation?
00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:18.080
Give some advice to people who are thinking about
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.820
it but don't know what to do. So I'd start with
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.429
thinking about what it is that you do. anyway
00:15:23.429 --> 00:15:25.690
right so it's what is your you know what is it
00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:28.990
that you do um and and because and and work off
00:15:28.990 --> 00:15:32.409
that because it has to be authentic um so that's
00:15:32.409 --> 00:15:34.230
the first thing that's a very practical in in
00:15:34.230 --> 00:15:37.129
road but i'd also probably suggest you read you
00:15:37.129 --> 00:15:40.450
you watch the simon sinek uh piece about purpose
00:15:40.450 --> 00:15:42.970
if you can get onto um youtube and have a look
00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:45.870
at that when he talks about purpose and this
00:15:45.870 --> 00:15:47.429
is where we've built a lot of our purpose practice
00:15:47.429 --> 00:15:50.340
from People normally talk about the what they
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:51.980
do as a start point. It's like, well, what we
00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:54.799
do and then we talk about how we do it. But actually
00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.440
where people connect is with the why, the why
00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:01.159
you do it. So rather than starting what, how
00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:05.070
and why, start why. how and what do it that way
00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:07.470
out and there's a reason for that there's apparently
00:16:07.470 --> 00:16:09.490
a biological reason for that which is like our
00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:12.289
limbic brain you know our kind of our the oldest
00:16:12.289 --> 00:16:14.889
part of our brain is the bit that is linked to
00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:18.049
behavior and and that is the emotional part and
00:16:18.049 --> 00:16:20.629
that wants to understand you know the why why
00:16:20.629 --> 00:16:22.309
are you doing it why are you doing it and and
00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:24.950
and so you have to look at what you do but it
00:16:24.950 --> 00:16:26.929
also has to be authentic it's the why you're
00:16:26.929 --> 00:16:29.610
doing it to start with that and go through that
00:16:29.610 --> 00:16:33.740
process And it's interesting hearing you talk
00:16:33.740 --> 00:16:36.100
that there was as much about looking after your
00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:37.919
own staff, of giving them something and giving
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.600
them a purpose. Yes. And as you've come out of
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.460
that, we don't have COVID. They're not necessarily
00:16:42.460 --> 00:16:44.679
sitting in it. Is that still the thing that they
00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.620
want to be giving back? Yes, they've got these
00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:49.519
careers that are going up. They want to work
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.100
in the biggest companies. But that actually that
00:16:52.100 --> 00:16:54.620
bit of purpose is really key to keeping them.
00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.519
With you, keeping them happy, keeping them fulfilled.
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.519
Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of research
00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.519
done in this area. Interestingly, 70 % of people
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:07.839
in the workforce are looking for work to provide
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.660
some type of purpose for what they do. So we
00:17:10.660 --> 00:17:13.660
all need purpose. That's the truth. We all need
00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:15.059
purpose to be happy. I don't know if you've read
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:18.160
a book by Arthur Seabrook. Professor Arthur Seabrook,
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.019
he's a Harvard professor. But he talks about
00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:23.869
the fundamental building blocks. what makes us
00:17:23.869 --> 00:17:26.869
happy and and happy happy isn't again it's a
00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:29.690
journey it's by it's about becoming happier happiness
00:17:29.690 --> 00:17:32.349
he talks about but actually there's four building
00:17:32.349 --> 00:17:35.689
blocks and one of them is purposeful work So
00:17:35.689 --> 00:17:38.910
interesting, 70 % of people are looking for purpose
00:17:38.910 --> 00:17:40.829
in the work they do. The other 30 % presumably
00:17:40.829 --> 00:17:42.670
have lots of great hobbies that are keeping them
00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:45.109
busy outside of work on great families and all
00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:48.150
that kind of stuff. But 70%. And interestingly,
00:17:48.309 --> 00:17:51.789
Gen Zers, 79 % are looking. So that's something
00:17:51.789 --> 00:17:53.890
that's increasing. And there's a lot of great
00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:56.569
work done on the impacts of that. So interestingly,
00:17:56.690 --> 00:18:00.089
if you do have a purposeful workplace. Ultimately,
00:18:00.109 --> 00:18:02.349
there's a commercial business case for it. Apparently,
00:18:02.390 --> 00:18:05.769
they outperform other workplaces by between 5
00:18:05.769 --> 00:18:07.849
% to 7%. So if you're looking for commercial
00:18:07.849 --> 00:18:11.190
return, it's there. But your employees, they're
00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:13.829
50 % more likely not to suffer from burnout.
00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:16.890
They're 40 % more likely to stay with you. So
00:18:16.890 --> 00:18:19.109
there's a retention argument. And in terms of
00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:20.569
their own performance and well -being, they're
00:18:20.569 --> 00:18:23.589
twice as likely to have good well -being. And
00:18:23.589 --> 00:18:26.150
they're 30 % more likely to perform. So there's
00:18:26.150 --> 00:18:28.470
lots and lots of stats I could probably throw
00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:31.720
in you. It's the entrepreneurial commercial business
00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:33.619
case for why you should do it. It's not just
00:18:33.619 --> 00:18:36.200
Q5, it's for everybody. And the key thing really
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.339
is about understanding that there is genuine
00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:42.819
value in doing it, not just for the company because
00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:44.000
people might go, oh, brilliant, right, we'll
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.299
get a purpose out because we'll grow the business
00:18:46.299 --> 00:18:49.240
by 5 % to 7%. But actually, back to that thing
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.480
about healthy organisations, it's about people
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.920
being healthy within your organisation, having
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.259
a purpose, making a difference, connecting with
00:18:56.259 --> 00:18:59.700
people, you know, and living a good life as they
00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.599
also run through the journey of their working
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.880
life. I like the idea of what you said earlier
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:05.660
about as well, starting with the why, because
00:19:05.660 --> 00:19:07.940
it's not authentic. If you think I've got a purpose,
00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:11.440
because that'll get me 5 % vote, it's not really
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.940
going to work, is it? And I have seen that as
00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.000
well in people that go, well, just have this
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.940
as a veneer on the front. and continue just being...
00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:21.039
How many times have we seen the piece of paper
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.819
or the thing on the wall that says, this is who
00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.640
we are? And people walk past and go, that's not
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.819
who we are. I wish we were. You know, or it's
00:19:31.819 --> 00:19:33.099
written down, we need a purpose, let's write
00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:34.400
it down and let's put it in the drawer and get
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.440
on with the day job. You know, I mean, it happens
00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:40.500
all the time and it's inauthentic. People aren't
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:43.319
stupid. We all can see it. You've got to live
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:46.259
your purpose. If you're not living your purpose,
00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:49.509
then, you know. I think there's another great
00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.190
start, isn't it? It takes years, years sometimes
00:19:52.190 --> 00:19:54.990
to build trust and it takes seconds to destroy
00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:58.049
it. So you can have a fantastic relationship
00:19:58.049 --> 00:19:59.869
with your workforce and it can be destroyed in
00:19:59.869 --> 00:20:02.769
seconds and you can live the outcome of that,
00:20:02.849 --> 00:20:05.529
you know, from people leaving. So, yeah, it's
00:20:05.529 --> 00:20:09.390
got to be authentic. You've got to live it. You've
00:20:09.390 --> 00:20:11.170
got to challenge it if it's not being lived.
00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:16.309
And, yeah, or suffer the consequences of that.
00:20:17.450 --> 00:20:19.390
recruitment you know you say it can be seconds
00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:21.690
you can make a bad hire they can undo years of
00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:24.890
work and and again we see this in a lot of organizations
00:20:24.890 --> 00:20:27.329
where they'll have that purpose and it is authentic
00:20:27.329 --> 00:20:29.569
but then they'll not even consider it in the
00:20:29.569 --> 00:20:32.549
recruiting process bring somebody in undermines
00:20:32.549 --> 00:20:35.549
a whole lot and the internal belief starts to
00:20:35.549 --> 00:20:37.710
be eroded so it's critical isn't it absolutely
00:20:37.710 --> 00:20:41.880
i mean that's back to the the uh the why the
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.940
Simon Sinek why people don't uh buy what you
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:47.839
do they buy why you do it and and you're selling
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.440
that to people who are like -minded and they're
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:52.220
the people that you want on the bus they're the
00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:53.799
people that you want to recruit and bring in
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.559
and it's interesting I mean let's say I was the
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.579
marketing director for Q5 the the most It's interesting,
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.799
the highest stats for our website, the homepage,
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.680
obviously everyone goes to the homepage. That's
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.359
what we all do. After that, it's the people.
00:21:08.539 --> 00:21:10.440
That's the second page they go to is the people.
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:13.279
And then the third page is the purpose page.
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.099
It's the about us. And if you think about it,
00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.059
it's like, okay, I've got to go to the homepage
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:19.839
because that's the homepage. But actually, what
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.160
am I interested in? The people I'm working with
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.079
and the ethos that the company lives by. And
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.599
that's how, you know, particularly Gen Z is increasing,
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:30.440
as I say, 79 % versus 70. That's what they're
00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.059
looking for. It's like the Maslow hierarchy of
00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:36.019
needs. You know, we start off with the basics.
00:21:36.099 --> 00:21:38.160
You know, we need shelter, we need food, et cetera.
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:41.019
And we expect that now from companies. We're
00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:43.000
expecting to get paid, quite frankly, right?
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.960
We're expecting to get paid. So once those needs
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.720
are met, it's the next layer. It's the next layer
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.480
up. And that's where purposeful work comes. Has
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.500
it changed what Q5 are doing? You go back to
00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:55.640
those soft skills. when you're going into companies,
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.900
are you emphasising that side of what they're
00:21:58.900 --> 00:22:01.319
doing more than you would have been five, seven
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:04.440
years ago? Yes, I mean, we would always have
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.200
said... Our USPR unique selling point was the
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.680
how, the how we do things, not just the why,
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:11.920
but the how. We would always say we work with
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.259
you. We see ourselves as an extension of your
00:22:14.259 --> 00:22:16.920
team. We're here to support and enable you. We
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.000
don't come in and land and expand with a big
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.920
tome. You know, sometimes management consultancies
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:24.799
have a bad reputation for and then kind of take
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.000
the money and leave. You know, we've always been
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:31.500
about the how. And we would say we would inject
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:34.799
that in when we're with companies. Ultimately,
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.440
what we're trying to do is make an intervention,
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:40.160
upskill, improve, pivot sometimes, set people
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.319
on a new course, but ultimately leave them in
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.279
a way that they're more healthy because of our
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:46.140
interventions. That has to be part of the conversation.
00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:50.240
And now you are the director of the foundation,
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:53.259
fairly recently. What do you want to do with
00:22:53.259 --> 00:22:56.210
it? Where do you want to take it? So there's
00:22:56.210 --> 00:22:58.849
obviously the good that we do. We donate our
00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:00.490
time. As I say, public consulting is probably
00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:03.009
the biggest bit. We're going to work with probably
00:23:03.009 --> 00:23:05.130
25 different charities and non -for -profits
00:23:05.130 --> 00:23:08.210
this year, helping them to achieve their purpose
00:23:08.210 --> 00:23:11.170
and their aims. So that's the key is the actual,
00:23:11.250 --> 00:23:14.450
the output and the impact on third parties is
00:23:14.450 --> 00:23:16.829
important. But there's another part for us as
00:23:16.829 --> 00:23:19.349
well. There's the internal piece. And that comes
00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:21.609
back to actually our own purpose and our own
00:23:21.609 --> 00:23:25.049
culture. So we're using it as a vehicle to get.
00:23:25.130 --> 00:23:27.680
Q5 is to work together often. They're in client
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.460
work sometimes for six months and they're not
00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:32.099
with Q5ers. So it's actually a vehicle to get
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.400
them to work together, not just with the groups
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:35.980
that they're working with at clients, but across
00:23:35.980 --> 00:23:38.339
the organisation. And there's multiple benefits
00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:41.119
for that. One is we upskill them, you know, so
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.079
we get more junior, newer people into the organisation
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.000
working with more senior people. We get them
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.799
to develop their own thinking. So we use it as
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.619
an engine for learning and development. We create
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:54.400
connections so that they're connected in. That
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.559
sense of community is so very important. important
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:59.099
because they might be with channel four for six
00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:02.599
months but they're ultimately a q5 and they have
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:04.339
to feel a belonging to the to the place where
00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:07.900
they work um and also that sense of uh fulfillment
00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:13.000
as i say 70 79 of gen z are looking for purpose
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.759
so it's a vehicle to help do that you're not
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:19.240
just working you're also doing purposeful good
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:21.660
in the work that you do and having worked with
00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:24.170
q5 ourselves you know as you say, you rarely
00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:25.849
have people on the bench. You know, you're normally
00:24:25.849 --> 00:24:29.769
like 100 % full tilt in the clients. How do you
00:24:29.769 --> 00:24:32.029
balance the time? Because, as you said, there's
00:24:32.029 --> 00:24:35.150
lots of benefits internally in retention, motivation,
00:24:35.250 --> 00:24:37.509
engagement. How do you balance time when you've
00:24:37.509 --> 00:24:40.029
got the external pressures of clients who need
00:24:40.029 --> 00:24:42.750
your services? And need is the real word. They
00:24:42.750 --> 00:24:44.029
don't just want your services, they need your
00:24:44.029 --> 00:24:45.910
services. And then you're doing the foundation
00:24:45.910 --> 00:24:49.529
work on the side. How do you balance that? So
00:24:49.529 --> 00:24:52.049
the client always comes first, always has to.
00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:56.069
I mean, that is our main purpose is making organisations
00:24:56.069 --> 00:24:58.700
healthier, so they have to come first. about
00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:03.519
being pragmatic and a new kind of term at the
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.039
moment, dynamic resourcing. So if you're off
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.160
project, if you've just finished on a project
00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:10.859
and you're free for two, three days, that's a
00:25:10.859 --> 00:25:13.839
great time to come and work for the foundation.
00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:16.440
And it's a great way to sort of renew as well.
00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:18.420
So you might have been doing a very intense piece
00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:21.799
of work. Well, come and work with a small or
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:24.740
mid -sized non -for -profit and just kind of
00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:27.200
get some renewal. So that's how we tend to do
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.559
it. We've talked on a couple of podcasts about
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.160
what actually you get from going and working
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.180
with a charity, working with it in terms of just
00:25:34.180 --> 00:25:37.180
new ideas and going back almost to the beginning.
00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:40.579
You're going into big companies where maybe the
00:25:40.579 --> 00:25:42.880
entrepreneurship has gone because it's got too
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.359
big and all the rest of it. Are they learning
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:47.799
in a lot of ways? And as you said, sort of being
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:49.940
regrounded by working with these charities and
00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:52.599
smaller companies. Yeah, hugely, hugely. I mean,
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:54.420
we might go into a charity where there's only
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:57.440
25 employees. You're going to get to know everyone
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:01.400
and you're going to hear, you know, start to
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.559
finish what are the knotty problems and you're
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.160
going to get immersed in that. And that's incredibly
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.740
rewarding. You know, they're trusting you with
00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:12.420
what is a very precious entity. And also it's
00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:16.119
an opportunity to build the skills. So, for example,
00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:18.559
we've got organisational design experts who've
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:20.720
said, actually, I want to learn more about culture.
00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:22.140
I want to learn more about leadership development.
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.880
Bring them into that space. Get them to do a
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.059
project where they're actually learning and developing
00:26:28.059 --> 00:26:30.740
in themselves. And as a consequence of that,
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.799
interestingly, I've... had consultants say, actually,
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:36.220
I think we can develop a whole new offering because
00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:38.940
of this. So we actually developed a fundraising
00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:41.740
strategy offering of the base of the work that
00:26:41.740 --> 00:26:43.880
we did in the foundation, which we're now using
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:47.099
in pop -up, but we're also now in conversations
00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:49.440
with charities about as well to help them, bigger
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.880
charities that would afford a management consulting
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:54.400
firm to help them. develop their fundraising
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:57.500
strategy so yeah it's brilliant it's r and d
00:26:57.500 --> 00:27:00.240
is it's everything it's brilliant it all comes
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:01.940
full circle doesn't it god i mean we've talked
00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:04.160
on so many of these these podcasts now about
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:06.460
social impact and how important it is for companies
00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:08.940
and i know it's really important to climb it's
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:10.960
something that's really important but it's almost
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.819
getting that message through maybe to companies
00:27:12.819 --> 00:27:15.539
that haven't got it it's a full circle thing
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:17.259
it's not just about going out and doing good
00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:19.240
and ticking a box or whatever yeah absolutely
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:20.880
i mean as i was saying if you think about the
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:24.000
cost of retention if you've got a very low retention
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.680
rate, really. Do the maths on that and you'll
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:28.420
know how much that's costing you in terms of
00:27:28.420 --> 00:27:31.660
recruitment costs. So, you know, there are multiple
00:27:31.660 --> 00:27:34.900
benefits to doing this that you might not see
00:27:34.900 --> 00:27:36.700
initially, but certainly I've been doing this
00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:39.200
now for seven years with Q5 and we set a pop
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.480
-up five years ago and they're pretty exponential.
00:27:41.859 --> 00:27:44.559
And I think that's the thing. I can always sit
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:46.819
with the hardest -known CFO and show the commercial
00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:48.900
benefit of doing things in the right way, you
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:51.569
know, because... And talking about... people
00:27:51.569 --> 00:27:53.390
being on the bench I remember when my wife was
00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:55.789
working in a big IT firm she'd be working on
00:27:55.789 --> 00:27:58.849
a 250 million pound project and then like 100
00:27:58.849 --> 00:28:00.769
hours a week and then she'd be on the bench and
00:28:00.769 --> 00:28:02.950
be worried for her job thinking I might get booted
00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:04.849
whereas if you're working on a it's almost like
00:28:04.849 --> 00:28:07.369
a flywheel still going in inside your head whereas
00:28:07.369 --> 00:28:10.150
if you've got work on a foundation project that
00:28:10.150 --> 00:28:12.109
allows you to kind of slow not necessarily slow
00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:14.269
down but don't feel like you just sat on a bench
00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:15.970
and being a cost you're actually adding value
00:28:15.970 --> 00:28:18.769
all of those pieces are great takeaways for our
00:28:18.769 --> 00:28:20.910
listeners to be that they can put in their own
00:28:20.910 --> 00:28:22.750
organizations. And it's not one of the things
00:28:22.750 --> 00:28:25.500
I think. we see a lot when we talk to people
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:28.259
about impact and social impact in their businesses,
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.519
is they worry it's going to cost them a fortune.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:32.500
Well, actually, it doesn't. You know, it's relatively,
00:28:32.779 --> 00:28:36.160
not easy to set up, but low cost to set up. And
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.319
then within probably less than a year, you're
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:40.759
seeing a financial benefit within the organisation.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:42.680
I think some of the things you talk about is
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:44.779
great takeaways that people can do in their own
00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:48.180
businesses. Absolutely. There's a fantastic person
00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:50.859
I work with in Leeds, actually, who Anna Fair
00:28:50.859 --> 00:28:53.259
has such a fantastic lady. Interestingly, when
00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:55.859
she was thinking about moving jobs and she came
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.859
to work for Q5, before the interview, she'd heard
00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:00.880
about Q5 and the good work that we were doing
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.200
locally because she was plugged into places like
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.319
Catch in Hare Hills and Leeds Learning Alliance.
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:08.799
That's not the reason why we were doing the work.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.019
But actually, it meant that when she came to
00:29:11.019 --> 00:29:12.880
talk to us at interview, she was already half
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.059
sold on the company because she knew we were
00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:17.000
doing the right things. And is that important
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.460
that you are giving back locally? to where you
00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:21.500
have made your base in the north of England?
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.599
Absolutely, yeah. So the foundation actually
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.299
is broken into four parts. I've talked about
00:29:25.299 --> 00:29:27.099
pop -up consulting. The other three, though,
00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:30.079
are pathways for young people. That also came
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.319
out of the pandemic. The young people, as we
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:34.880
know, were particularly hard hit. And then obviously
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.539
following the pandemic, we've had a very uneven
00:29:37.539 --> 00:29:40.440
time, shall we say, economically. So actually
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:43.460
the second string of the foundation is positive
00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:44.980
pathways for young people. We do a lot of work
00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:48.039
in that area. The third one is around... reports
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.960
so we've a lot of big brains in the company so
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:52.740
sometimes if people can't do pop -up consulting
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:55.480
they'll dedicate their time to helping uh write
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.599
a report so we did some work on the levelling
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.799
up commission for example um a few years ago
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:04.220
um and then the fourth one is about a partnership
00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:08.380
um within the local communities where we have
00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:11.799
our offices so that's obviously for us it's leeds
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.599
london and cardiff in the uk um and when in that
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.190
respect we look at Who is active? Who needs our
00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:20.869
support? Where can we make the big difference?
00:30:21.130 --> 00:30:23.369
And for us locally, it's the Leeds Learning Alliance
00:30:23.369 --> 00:30:26.410
and it's catching hair hills. I think that's
00:30:26.410 --> 00:30:28.390
really important because we talk about this.
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.640
on a smallish scale, at business level. So there's
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:33.680
the financial benefits of retention, et cetera,
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:36.400
and recruitment. So as you say, people know about
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.460
your organisation from the things externally
00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:41.619
to the core of the job. Yes. That's the same
00:30:41.619 --> 00:30:43.740
for a region. You know, West Yorkshire's trying
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:46.420
to attract FDI, you know, companies coming in
00:30:46.420 --> 00:30:49.259
from overseas. Well, if the region doesn't have
00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:51.960
a purpose and doesn't display itself and demonstrate
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.920
its unique selling point, it happens on a macro
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:58.500
level, you know? by connecting those communities
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:00.380
it's absolutely critical and you've talked about
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.220
trust as well getting people one of the things
00:31:03.220 --> 00:31:05.019
that we found originally when we were doing impact
00:31:05.019 --> 00:31:07.140
work at climb was people thought it was a marketing
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:09.500
stunt their instant reaction was are you doing
00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:11.460
this so there's a lot of things that we do at
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:13.160
climb we did at climb that we don't talk about
00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.640
we just do it and no one knows it's often a different
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:17.599
part of the event did you get any resistance
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.279
did you see any of that of people think when
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:22.140
you go into communities thinking is this you
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:23.700
just trying to sell us something from a different
00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:27.099
angle or No, because we're very clear up front,
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.539
actually, we're not looking for a return. The
00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:32.740
only time we ever asked for a return actually
00:31:32.740 --> 00:31:35.200
was with PopUp. We say if you enjoyed working
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.740
with us, if we made an intervention that was
00:31:36.740 --> 00:31:39.819
positive, we'd ask you to do two things. One
00:31:39.819 --> 00:31:42.259
is write a testimonial, which is like one to
00:31:42.259 --> 00:31:44.720
two lines that we can use on the website, because
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.660
that also encourages other people to get involved
00:31:46.660 --> 00:31:48.839
in PopUp. And secondly, give us a shout out on
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:51.160
social media. And again, that's just a way of
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.980
promoting PopUp without having to. actually pay
00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:56.680
for it from the marketing so so they're the two
00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:59.839
things that we ask for um i think we're lucky
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:02.420
gordon where we live in the north in that there's
00:32:02.420 --> 00:32:05.519
that natural sort of civic duty uh collective
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.660
collaboration exists in the city of leeds and
00:32:08.660 --> 00:32:11.160
in the wider west yorkshire region um you see
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.619
it actually with the council they often put on
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:16.559
events where they bring together public and private
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.680
sector bodies and basically say, we're all in
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:21.819
it together. What are we going to do about this,
00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:24.859
that and the other? And I was recently at one
00:32:24.859 --> 00:32:28.200
actually with the new CEO, Ed, where he was looking
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:29.740
at the sort of the projection for the next five
00:32:29.740 --> 00:32:33.299
years for the city of Leeds. And he was literally
00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:35.339
saying, everyone in the room, you've all got
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:37.740
your own ideas. I want to hear them. So I think
00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:41.279
we're lucky we're in a region that gets it and
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:45.269
knows what its USP is. And that makes... us getting
00:32:45.269 --> 00:32:47.529
involved much easier and that's why we have our
00:32:47.529 --> 00:32:49.609
big event here because it was just very easy
00:32:49.609 --> 00:32:52.329
to get people we have an event that looks like
00:32:52.329 --> 00:32:54.410
a commercial about business growth and investment
00:32:54.410 --> 00:32:57.150
etc outwardly yeah but it's core pillars is all
00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:00.289
around social mobility equity inclusion gender
00:33:00.289 --> 00:33:03.490
equality etc and everyone just gets on board
00:33:03.490 --> 00:33:06.089
everyone it seemed really easy we did get a little
00:33:06.089 --> 00:33:07.690
bit of skepticism at the beginning of people
00:33:07.690 --> 00:33:11.339
some communities really where i think probably
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:14.039
pre -Covid, they'd had organisations going in.
00:33:14.059 --> 00:33:17.099
It was just a marketing stunt. I think now that's
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:19.240
less of a case. But the beauty of being here
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.460
for us is this big business community that comes
00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:26.900
together. Yeah, absolutely. And for you, having
00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:30.160
travelled the world, your global, and your husband
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.799
as well, have you come back to Yorkshire and
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.019
maybe found your purpose with the foundation?
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.299
Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean, I would say...
00:33:38.619 --> 00:33:40.579
I always had a purpose. But as I said earlier,
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.460
I think purpose is a journey. And the purpose
00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.519
I had in my 20s and 30s is different now to my
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:50.039
50s. 30 years plus of working and hopefully I've
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.059
got some information that might be useful to
00:33:52.059 --> 00:33:54.640
other people. My purpose now is much more about
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:57.380
the giving back element and perhaps the legacy
00:33:57.380 --> 00:34:00.240
for Q5 as we move forward. And when you hand
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.359
that foundation on, what do you hope you'll be
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:07.720
handing on? So I hope those four pillars. are
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:10.019
even more robust, the four pillars I spoke about
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:13.119
earlier. And I hope that that traction continues
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.340
at the rate of knots that we have it at the moment.
00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:20.780
That would be my hope. And the expansion model
00:34:20.780 --> 00:34:22.980
for me would be more around our newer offices.
00:34:23.139 --> 00:34:25.559
So obviously we have offices now that are very
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:29.059
established, like the Leeds office. We've got
00:34:29.059 --> 00:34:30.860
long -term relationships now with the Leeds Learning
00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:33.780
Alliance and Catch, but actually we have newer
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:37.130
offices. We've offices in Saudi Arabia, say,
00:34:37.190 --> 00:34:39.710
Oman. We've a relatively new office in Houston
00:34:39.710 --> 00:34:42.550
and also in Melbourne in Australia. And it's
00:34:42.550 --> 00:34:44.909
about making sure that they're also doing what
00:34:44.909 --> 00:34:47.789
we're doing. And we've got a huge community of
00:34:47.789 --> 00:34:51.250
impact businesses, CICs, et cetera, around Climb.
00:34:51.369 --> 00:34:53.469
How do they find you and how do they connect
00:34:53.469 --> 00:34:57.440
with you? They can find me on LinkedIn. I mean,
00:34:57.500 --> 00:34:59.760
Q5, just go look for Q5 Partners, the website.
00:34:59.860 --> 00:35:03.280
That's where we'll be or Q5 on LinkedIn. You'll
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.960
find us. We're green, so we tend to stand out
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:07.579
as a management consulting firm. We're not blue
00:35:07.579 --> 00:35:10.840
and grey. Look for the green. And just finally,
00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:13.059
has there been somebody you've helped in the
00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:15.019
local community, something that's been said that's
00:35:15.019 --> 00:35:16.579
really stuck with you? When you're having a bad
00:35:16.579 --> 00:35:19.579
day and you're fighting the beast and a phrase
00:35:19.579 --> 00:35:22.500
pops back into your head or you see something
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:24.159
that somebody's written about how you've helped
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:26.260
and you just think, This is the way forward.
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:30.800
Yeah, I mean, I think all the charities I talked
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:33.639
to, we had a couple actually recently that were
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:36.260
very kindly agreed to be filmed for our five
00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:38.980
-year anniversary of Pop -Up, Patchwork Hub and
00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:42.059
The Big Issue down in London. And both of them
00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:45.460
basically said that the intervention made a fundamental
00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:47.239
change to the direction that they're travelling
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:51.789
in. And it was a positive thing. These organisations
00:35:51.789 --> 00:35:54.909
don't have the resources all the time, quite
00:35:54.909 --> 00:35:57.050
frankly, because they are running so hard for
00:35:57.050 --> 00:35:59.530
the purpose for which they are employed. So the
00:35:59.530 --> 00:36:01.030
fact that we were able to do an intervention,
00:36:01.070 --> 00:36:04.250
take them out of that and make a fundamental
00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:06.690
difference and ultimately something for the longer
00:36:06.690 --> 00:36:09.630
term, that healthy organisation longer term is
00:36:09.630 --> 00:36:12.230
incredibly rewarding. But I mean, I think I have
00:36:12.230 --> 00:36:15.389
the best job in Q5 because I get to work with
00:36:15.389 --> 00:36:19.800
24 charities plus the partners every year. And
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.539
pretty much every time they say we've made a
00:36:22.539 --> 00:36:24.760
difference. So aren't I the lucky one? Got the
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:26.900
best job. You are indeed. Annabelle, thanks so
00:36:26.900 --> 00:36:29.559
much for your time. A healthy lesson. Find your
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:32.619
purpose. Join us again for another Conversations
00:36:32.619 --> 00:36:33.199
at the Summit.