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00:00:17.280Welcome to Consumer Connection, a podcast brought to you by the Montgomery County Office of Consumer Protection.
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00:00:19.600I'm your host, Michelle Escobar.
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00:00:25.839Today we're diving into a topic almost every homeowner faces at some point: home improvements.
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00:00:36.079Whether you're planning a small upgrade or a major renovation, your decisions can impact your home's safety or your wallet for years to come.
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00:00:43.840Joining us is Matt Kaufman, investigator here at OCP, who specializes in home improvement complaints.
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00:00:48.000He's also a trained home inspector with years of experience.
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00:00:57.439Matt sees these issues from every angle, from the consumer side, the contractor side, and the practical realities inside the home.
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00:01:11.760In this episode, we're breaking down what homeowners need to know before starting any project contractor selection, contracts, energy efficient upgrades, solar panels, and long-term planning.
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00:01:22.799And by the way, if you send us a DM or email us the word contractor after listening, we'll send you OCP's How to Hire a Contractor cheat sheet.
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00:01:25.760Matt, welcome to the show.
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00:01:26.879Thank you, Michelle.
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00:01:27.680Good to be here.
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00:01:29.840Thank you for being here.
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00:01:32.239So we've been working together for some time now.
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00:01:33.680We both do home improvements.
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00:01:35.920So I think this is going to be a really good conversation.
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00:01:38.319We have a lot in common and a lot to talk about.
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00:01:48.799And I'm really looking forward to this because, as you know, the best thing we can possibly do for homeowners is to inform them ahead of time.
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00:01:58.159Because most of the time, by the time they get to us, they already have a problem that in most cases could have been prevented with a little bit of foreknowledge.
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00:01:59.280Absolutely.
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00:02:00.319Absolutely.
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00:02:02.640That is a very true statement.
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00:02:08.400And so talk, let's talk a little bit about common complaints since we're here.
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00:02:10.800You know, let's talk a little bit about common complaints.
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00:02:15.439Um, what are we what are we seeing at the office right now with home improvement complaints?
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00:02:22.719Well, Michelle, a lot of time, most of the time, we see the complaints divided into a couple of categories.
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00:02:27.599Uh the first category would be criminals, unfortunately.
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00:02:39.759And those are people who, at the beginning, their intention is to steal people's money, to convince them to give them money and then leave with it and not return anything of value.
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00:02:52.639So that's something that we encounter, and it's difficult because if a criminal is planned to take your money, they've usually also planned to hide the money after they've taken it and maybe even have hidden their identity.
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00:02:56.159So let's pause there for a minute because let's talk a little bit about red flags.
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00:02:56.560Yes.
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00:03:02.000When they are where they are intending to take your money, we're looking, what are we looking for?
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00:03:03.520Um, those handshake deals.
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00:03:03.919That's right.
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00:03:05.599They're not presenting you a contract.
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00:03:06.159That's right.
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00:03:08.879They don't have a license, possibly.
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00:03:13.520Um that pressure, those pressure tactics, pay with cash.
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00:03:14.240That's right.
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00:03:15.840Cash or payment apps.
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00:03:16.719Yes.
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00:03:26.319Um, so what we recommend is pay with uh a check or a credit card because that that's gonna be your your best defense.
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00:03:29.599Um, or asking them to pull their own permits.
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00:03:31.280Pulling their own permits.
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00:03:39.759And there are some of those things will cross the boundary of uh contractors who do intend to do work.
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00:03:51.199Okay, yeah, um who will ask people to get the permits themselves because they're in that middle range where they're actually contractors, they may or may not be licensed.
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00:04:04.719They do intend to do the work, but they're also perhaps not the best quality or the most ethical, and they want to give you as little purchase in terms of holding them accountable as possible.
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00:04:11.439So phone numbers, addresses, business names don't necessarily match up with the license.
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00:04:14.879The license number won't be provided on contracts, et cetera.
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00:04:17.040And sometimes they're not equipped to do the work.
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00:04:17.600That's right.
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00:04:24.240You know, it might be somebody you've worked with before, but they don't - they're not equipped to do that work.
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00:04:25.439They don't know what they're doing.
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00:04:25.759Yeah.
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00:04:26.079Right.
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00:04:27.120And I've had that happen.
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00:04:29.360I've had people who vetted contractors.
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00:04:38.000Oh, he's got good references or she's got good references, but they're actually taking on a job that's bigger than anything they've ever done.
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00:04:45.360They might have been the laborer for a job like that, but they've never been the one to organize, budget, and implement it.
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00:04:54.000So yes, that's uh that's a difficult situation when the consumer finds themselves having given away a lot of money and not getting anything in return.
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00:04:55.519And you said there's a third one.
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00:05:15.360Third category, which is legitimate contractors uh who are licensed and have so there are three categories the criminals, the people who are ethically on the in-between, but have sometimes they're big corporations who, you know, just protect themselves more than they protect their consumer.
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00:05:32.800And then the third category is just legitimate misunderstandings about uh expectations and results, workmanship, uh disagreements on timelines, things that most of the time can be solved with uh a good contract.
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00:05:33.839Helps a lot.
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00:05:34.720Absolutely.
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00:05:35.040Yeah.
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00:05:36.079So let's talk about that.
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00:05:37.519How do we choose then?
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00:05:40.319Um what do we tell the homeowners?
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00:05:42.000How do you choose a good contractor?
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00:05:42.959What do I do?
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00:05:43.519Yeah.
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00:05:49.040Because that it takes it, you have to to have to plan a home improvement, it takes so much energy.
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00:05:49.839It does.
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00:05:52.319And and it really takes so much thought.
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00:05:52.560Right.
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00:05:57.360Like you really have to be organized to and and understand what am I doing in my home?
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00:05:58.160This is your home.
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00:05:58.480Yeah.
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00:06:02.160And you're counting on someone else to do this for you.
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00:06:02.800That's right.
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00:06:06.879But you really need to be as knowledgeable as you can with what's going on in your life.
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00:06:07.519That's correct.
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00:06:12.240And I would say that that first starts with having realistic expectations.
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00:06:15.759So no one's perfect.
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00:06:25.199Even the best contractor can have something go wrong or not turn out exactly the way they wanted it to or you wanted it to.
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00:06:29.519And your expectations, the homeowners' expectations, have to be realistic.
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00:06:36.480When we build a new wall, you can't hold a magnifying glass to it and expect it to be perfectly smooth because that's not how it works.
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00:06:43.199If you want that quality, you have to expect to pay 10 times the amount of a normal construction job.
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00:06:54.800So establishing realistic expectations with the contractor and or at least in with yourself before you're even looking for a contractor, what am I actually looking for?
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00:06:56.720What am I actually expecting?
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00:07:09.040Because if you're expecting a caviar spread on a fast food budget, it may be time to step back and reflect on really is this the right time to be doing this?
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00:07:10.160Because that's not gonna happen.
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00:07:15.519And the thing is the caviar uh spread might take more work and more effort.
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00:07:16.639It yeah, exactly.
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00:07:24.560So it's gonna it's gonna, you know, you're we're to build this wall, we're gonna have to tear down, you know, this and and you know, much more of it.
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00:07:26.959And it just can turn into something else.
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00:07:28.079So I I hear you.
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00:07:28.959I hear you on that.
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00:07:35.680It requires a much higher level of skill, yeah, planning, and quality of materials.
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00:07:37.680And all of those things cost more.
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00:07:38.240Yeah.
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00:07:47.439So yeah, you the the you don't get real caviar at a fast food burger price.
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00:07:49.199That's just not gonna happen.
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00:07:50.720But those are the criminals.
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00:07:51.120Yes.
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00:08:00.000People who tell you you're gonna get caviar, yes, and they're selling it to you uh for the price of a a bag of french fries.
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00:08:03.680So the best thing you're not gonna get what you're thinking you're gonna get.
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00:08:04.160Right.
00:08:04.160 -->
00:08:07.439So the best thing to do is protect yourself the best way you can.
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00:08:08.000That's right.
00:08:08.240 -->
00:08:12.560So get a licensed contractor um from the Maryland Home Improvement Commission.
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00:08:22.000Make sure that you that you get a licensed contractor because there are benefits to that in the sense where they have to take uh an exam.
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00:08:31.439Their salespeople have to take an exam and pass it on law, laws and regulations for home improvement, um, how to sell home improvement.
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00:08:33.919Um, and their contracts have to have certain things.
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00:08:38.799Now I know if we get into contracts, this that's a that's a that's an episode on its own.
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00:09:04.720But um, in general, you want to make sure that the contractor has, the contract has the contractor's name, the MHIC license, um, and you want to verify because I can't tell you how many times I have um seen contractors with all this great contracts with all this information, but the consumer didn't verify it, and they're not licensed.
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00:09:06.000Their license had expired.
00:09:06.159 -->
00:09:09.600So you use someone else's or they use someone else's exactly.
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00:09:16.559Or there's just no license on the contract, and the name of the business is actually not a registered business in Maryland.
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00:09:17.279Yeah.
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00:09:20.960It's the person actually acts under another business.
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00:09:31.519Or another one I've seen is the business license that they give you in um that you can obtain in uh the courts, the that circuit court.
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00:09:35.279It now they say not for now it says not for home improvement.
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00:09:35.600Right.
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00:09:38.960But believe me, I've seen that whited out.
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00:09:39.600Yeah.
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00:09:43.759And they use it as a home improvement license, and people don't know.
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00:09:48.399So it has to be a Maryland Home Improvement Commission, an M H I C number.
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00:09:48.879Right.
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00:09:56.720Um, the approximate dates is another, and that's another uh Can we just briefly talk about the license contract thing?
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00:10:05.679Um so realistically, because there's what's right, what's legal, and then there's what's practical.
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00:10:08.080Homeowners are allowed to do what they want.
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00:10:10.480I can go do the work in my own home.
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00:10:17.440Maryland is fairly generous with homeowner rights in terms of being able to do work ourselves.
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00:10:23.679So realistically, people do hire a handy person for small jobs.
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00:10:26.240That person may not be licensed.
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00:10:32.080We recommend you always use the licensed contractor because there are protections that come with that.
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00:10:41.360The MHIC has a guarantee fund that covers for problems of the work that was contracted for.
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00:10:45.440They have a fund that can help offset those costs.
00:10:45.440 -->
00:10:48.399There are legal protections.
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00:10:56.639Even licensed contractors often don't know what all of the required provisions are in the contract.
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00:11:09.039And I've rarely seen a home improvement contract, even from legitimate, honest, scrupulous contractors that have all the required elements in the contract under Maryland law.
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00:11:13.200So having a licensed contractor is good.
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00:11:15.679It provides some legal protections.
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00:11:27.039If you it means they're a real business, if you vet and make sure that license actually masters the business name and actually matches the person you're dealing with, we know who they are.
00:11:27.039 -->
00:11:33.360There's someone who's a legitimate person who has a real address, and that gives you some protection as a lot.
00:11:33.360 -->
00:11:38.000But it's not the end of the vetting process to just say, oh, this person is licensed.
00:11:38.159 -->
00:11:38.559That's right.
00:11:38.799 -->
00:11:53.200Because a licensed person who's only done small jobs, and all of a sudden you're got good referrals from neighbors and friends, and that but you call that person and say, I want to do an addition on the back of my home.
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00:12:01.120They're likely to say yes because that's a big job that makes you a lot of money.
00:12:01.120 -->
00:12:04.320Has that person ever actually handled the job of that scope?
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00:12:04.879Right.
00:12:04.960 -->
00:12:06.879Like your neighbor got their driveway done.
00:12:07.120 -->
00:12:07.919That's right.
00:12:07.919 -->
00:12:13.840Or they've done a bunch of run, they've done a bunch of small interior renovations, they've done roofing.
00:12:13.840 -->
00:12:27.440They they could have done a bunch of different things, and they can be skilled and capable and honest and have integrity, and yet they can still be tempted to take on something that they have only seen other people do.
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00:12:27.840Yeah.
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00:12:32.080And they've never actually organized and executed the work themselves.
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00:12:34.639And that is a very risky proposition.
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00:12:35.120Yeah.
00:12:35.120 -->
00:12:36.080So what do we do?
00:12:36.080 -->
00:12:38.879What are we, what are what do you recommend people to?
00:12:38.879 -->
00:12:40.559What questions do they ask?
00:12:40.559 -->
00:12:41.679What what do they do?
00:12:42.080 -->
00:12:45.519So the first thing is, am I dealing with a legitimate business?
00:12:45.519 -->
00:12:47.360It's the expectation thing.
00:12:47.360 -->
00:12:49.840How much I'm planning?
00:12:49.840 -->
00:12:51.360What am I getting into here?
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00:12:51.840Right.
00:12:51.840 -->
00:12:55.679And so that starts before you even talk to the contractor.
00:12:55.679 -->
00:13:11.120So for instance, if I want to put insulation in my attic, what are the what are the potential uh grants and refunds that I can get from the utility company and from the state?
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00:13:13.039And what are the requirements of those things?
00:13:13.039 -->
00:13:17.600Because if you know those things ahead of time, that dictates how you go about the process.
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00:13:19.519You have to get an energy audit first.
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00:13:20.240Yeah.
00:13:20.240 -->
00:13:22.240And don't take the contractor's word for it.
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00:13:23.519You have to do that.
00:13:23.600 -->
00:13:33.360You have to do some which is why once you've decided kind of where you want to go, what you think you want to go, do in your home for improvement.
00:13:33.360 -->
00:13:40.080It's good to have more than one contractor come in and discuss it with you because hopefully you'll get some ideas from them.
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00:13:51.360And you may discover, for instance, with your attic insulation, they're going to be covering over that old poorly running and noisy bathroom vent fan.
00:13:51.360 -->
00:13:57.360Well, that should get replaced first before you do the insulation, because there's an order of operation.
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00:14:04.240You don't cover something over with insulation that you're later going to want to uncover and replace because it's old and doesn't work properly.
00:14:04.240 -->
00:14:18.080So having those discussions, getting multiple quotes and thinking through what are my priorities, what's realistic, how much do I have to spend before you start talking to salespeople is very helpful.
00:14:18.080 -->
00:14:24.480So you have an understanding of what it is that is really going to help and serve you and your home and your family.
00:14:24.720 -->
00:14:36.639And look at those quotes when you get all three of them or however you're how many you're going to get, look at them, compare them, the approach price and read through them, what exactly is going to be done.
00:14:36.639 -->
00:14:39.759Um, they should match, you know, at the end of the day, right?
00:14:39.759 -->
00:14:40.399I mean, they should.
00:14:40.639 -->
00:14:41.279Well, they won't.
00:14:41.440 -->
00:14:41.759Okay.
00:14:42.080 -->
00:14:42.799They won't match.
00:14:42.799 -->
00:14:43.840That's part of the difficulty.
00:14:44.720 -->
00:14:50.559So the way you know where to go and who to deal with is by doing your own.
00:14:50.960 -->
00:14:52.960You have to do some research, unfortunately.
00:14:52.960 -->
00:14:54.240You have to do some research.
00:14:54.240 -->
00:14:59.919Now, there's a way that that can be you can uh support yourself or help yourself with that.
00:14:59.919 -->
00:15:14.480So again, depending on the size of the job, if I'm just having my front stoop resurfaced or I'm having a small job, let's say some rotted trim replaced, my risk and my expense is relatively small.
00:15:14.480 -->
00:15:16.960So, okay, that's not such a big deal.
00:15:16.960 -->
00:15:20.960And if it goes badly, it's not that hard to recover from.
00:15:20.960 -->
00:15:23.039We can fix whatever went wrong.
00:15:23.039 -->
00:15:38.720We're talking about a $200,000 addition or a full gutten renovation on an interior home, something really significant, where we're talking about many tens of thousands of dollars or potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars.
00:15:38.720 -->
00:15:59.200Now you're taking a much larger risk, and it's more important to back up and ask yourself how you can take care of yourself, get quotes, and consider hiring an independent person whose only job is to review the work that's being done, or even a lawyer to review the contract if you don't feel comfortable reviewing it yourself.
00:15:59.200 -->
00:16:03.039Because when you're starting to spend that much money, you're taking a much larger risk.
00:16:03.039 -->
00:16:05.360Your expectations are way higher.
00:16:05.360 -->
00:16:09.440The amount of time and energy and expense and risk are much higher.
00:16:09.440 -->
00:16:23.360So having a licensed home inspector or an architect or an engineer, and those obviously are three steps in escalating costs to review the construction at various stages.
00:16:23.360 -->
00:16:32.159Uh, each of them have different skill sets and capabilities and different levels of expense, but they're a uh they're your own set of eyes.
00:16:32.159 -->
00:16:47.200Because one of the things that I would say is most important for people to understand in terms of quality control for the work is that the county or municipality code inspection is not a quality control inspection.
00:16:47.200 -->
00:16:49.919And most people assume it is, and it is not.
00:16:49.919 -->
00:16:52.240It's a compliance inspection.
00:16:52.399 -->
00:16:52.639Yeah.
00:16:52.799 -->
00:16:54.240And that's all that that is.
00:16:54.240 -->
00:16:55.360It's a compliance inspection.
00:16:55.519 -->
00:16:56.639I'm glad that you mentioned that.
00:16:56.960 -->
00:17:00.159Does this work appear to comply?
00:17:00.159 -->
00:17:07.039They can't go through every single little detail and make sure everything is perfectly correct.
00:17:07.039 -->
00:17:10.559That's not their role and it's not the result.
00:17:11.920 -->
00:17:17.759So, how what do you suggest in prioritizing your projects?
00:17:17.759 -->
00:17:25.119Um, whether it's um just you know, is it safety, efficiency, long-term durability?
00:17:25.119 -->
00:17:29.519Like how do we how do we prioritize our projects that we want to do?
00:17:29.839 -->
00:17:33.440That's a very tough question because that is entirely subjective.
00:17:33.440 -->
00:17:39.920Uh and it's a kind of it's a complex consideration because how long will I plan to live in the home?
00:17:39.920 -->
00:17:43.039How much disposable income do I have available?
00:17:43.039 -->
00:17:52.400Uh what are the what is the condition of and age of the major essential components of the home?
00:17:52.400 -->
00:17:57.440My heating system, my cooling system, my plumbing system, uh, the electrical system.
00:17:57.440 -->
00:18:12.079Like so to me, the best thing to do is to have someone who's not going to be trying to sell, who has that's why the independent third party is valuable because they don't have something to sell.
00:18:12.079 -->
00:18:31.680As long as they don't have something to sell you in, or they even if you hire a contractor and say, I want you to go through the home and I want you to tell me everything you see, and I'm not gonna use you for any of the work, but I'm gonna pay you to do the evaluation and give me a written report and uh and tell me how much you'll pay for, and I'll pay for that.
00:18:31.680 -->
00:18:40.640And that's what your service is to me is to review the condition of the home, things I might not know as a homeowner, and tell me what I'm looking at here.
00:18:40.960 -->
00:18:50.880Because a lot of times I can I'll have people, um, salesmen, salesmen come to my home, for example, and say, um, we have a special on windows.
00:18:50.880 -->
00:19:00.400Um, so they're always trying to, you know, save you a buck, um, you know, so you can put installation or a new roof or new windows and doors.
00:19:00.400 -->
00:19:10.640Um, and I think that that's probably maybe one of the main things and the first thing people think about is changing, you know, their windows to save some energy cost or something.
00:19:10.799 -->
00:19:11.519So right.
00:19:11.519 -->
00:19:16.799And that's part of the so that's again reviewing what my own personal situation is.
00:19:16.799 -->
00:19:19.039What am I, what is my goal?
00:19:19.039 -->
00:19:21.759Do I want to make the house more comfortable?
00:19:21.759 -->
00:19:28.079Do I need to make something more accessible for someone who has limited mobility?
00:19:28.079 -->
00:19:31.519Uh, or do I am I looking to improve security?
00:19:31.519 -->
00:19:34.240Am I looking to improve energy efficiency?
00:19:34.240 -->
00:19:36.880Do I want to look at it to look more beautiful?
00:19:36.880 -->
00:19:38.400Do I need an extra bedroom?
00:19:38.400 -->
00:19:40.640Like what are my personal priorities?
00:19:40.640 -->
00:19:42.559What are my resources?
00:19:42.559 -->
00:19:46.079And what is the what is my end goal?
00:19:46.400 -->
00:19:49.759And so solar panels are huge.
00:19:50.160 -->
00:19:53.519And both in terms of risk and reward.
00:19:53.920 -->
00:19:54.319Exactly.
00:19:54.319 -->
00:20:05.599So let's talk about that because what I have found is a lot of those contracts, they well, those contracts, people don't really understand them.
00:20:05.599 -->
00:20:06.240That's correct.
00:20:06.240 -->
00:20:08.559And they don't really know what they're getting into.
00:20:08.559 -->
00:20:15.119Um, and they think that they're gonna save money and it's not something that money that you see in your pocket right away.
00:20:15.119 -->
00:20:15.759That's right.
00:20:15.759 -->
00:20:17.839So let's let's start with the contracts.
00:20:18.000 -->
00:20:18.240Yes.
00:20:18.400 -->
00:20:22.079Um, what are the three types of, I think it's three types of contracts, isn't it?
00:20:22.079 -->
00:20:25.599It's the the leasing, you either owe them or the solar.
00:20:25.599 -->
00:20:26.400Yes, with the solar.
00:20:26.880 -->
00:20:41.359Let me, if I may, just step back one step further and say, just in general, when it comes to contracts, the large print giveth and the small print taketh away, if I can quote from an American songwriter of some years ago.
00:20:41.359 -->
00:20:57.599Uh so if the salesperson says something to you and it's important to you, and it's the reason you're going with this contractor, ask where it says that in the contract.
00:20:57.599 -->
00:21:00.880And you will find that most of the time it doesn't.
00:21:00.880 -->
00:21:07.119And that should give you pause to step back and say, okay, well, what does the contract actually say?
00:21:07.119 -->
00:21:14.880Because I thought I was getting you were telling me my uh utility bills in the case of solar panels are going to be near to zero.
00:21:14.880 -->
00:21:18.559It it says the exact opposite in the contract.
00:21:18.559 -->
00:21:22.480It says we make no guarantee about your utility bills going down.
00:21:22.720 -->
00:21:23.039That's right.
00:21:23.279 -->
00:21:23.920Oh dear.
00:21:23.920 -->
00:21:26.720Okay, that's something to step back and consider.
00:21:26.720 -->
00:21:39.279Um, so just in general, to be able to step back and recognize that when I'm being sold, when someone's telling me something, if it's not in writing, I can't rely on it.
00:21:39.279 -->
00:21:41.519So that it has to be written down.
00:21:41.519 -->
00:21:57.039The second thing about contracts that's critically important for homeowners and consumers in general to understand is that in most cases, when you're talking about a big expenditure, you can negotiate what's going to be in the contract.
00:21:57.039 -->
00:21:59.599You can say, No, I'm not willing to sign a contract that.
00:21:59.599 -->
00:22:01.039Has that clause.
00:22:01.440 -->
00:22:02.880And you can literally scratch it out.
00:22:02.880 -->
00:22:03.839That's right.
00:22:04.079 -->
00:22:04.640That's right.
00:22:04.640 -->
00:22:13.119And both people, and some contracts say it can't be modified, which is fine because that means I'm not going to sign the contract now.
00:22:13.119 -->
00:22:16.880You can have your lawyer write up a new contract that doesn't have that clause.
00:22:17.119 -->
00:22:17.440That's right.
00:22:17.599 -->
00:22:19.279Or that amends that clause.
00:22:19.279 -->
00:22:21.839Or that we include this clause.
00:22:21.839 -->
00:22:27.039Because if you're not finished, you told me you're going to be finished by September 15th.
00:22:27.039 -->
00:22:30.720If you're not finished by September 15th, what are the consequences?
00:22:30.720 -->
00:22:34.640Because just having a deadline date, there's no incentive.
00:22:34.640 -->
00:22:35.759There's no actual consequence.
00:22:35.759 -->
00:22:37.519So you oh, it's October.
00:22:37.519 -->
00:22:38.160We're not finished.
00:22:38.160 -->
00:22:38.400Yeah.
00:22:38.400 -->
00:22:40.079Wait, you said you were going to be finished.
00:22:40.079 -->
00:22:41.200You don't get your money back.
00:22:41.359 -->
00:22:41.759Right.
00:22:42.000 -->
00:22:51.119You don't get to cancel the contract unless it says in the contract, what is the consequence if you don't finish by September 15th?
00:22:51.279 -->
00:22:51.920Yeah.
00:22:52.559 -->
00:22:57.200So solar, to go to that, the things to watch out for.
00:22:57.200 -->
00:23:00.480Solar leases are very, very tricky.
00:23:00.480 -->
00:23:13.359They are typically designed to guarantee good profits for the solar leasing company and a possible savings, not a guaranteed savings, but possible savings for the homeowner.
00:23:13.359 -->
00:23:22.319So looking for things like what escalation clauses, where the cost of your electricity through the solar panels is going to go up every year.
00:23:22.319 -->
00:23:23.359Why?
00:23:23.359 -->
00:23:24.400Okay.
00:23:24.400 -->
00:23:28.799So that's something to consider having struck from the contract, an escalation clause.
00:23:28.799 -->
00:23:34.960Are you going to continue paying the lease fee even if the system is not working?
00:23:34.960 -->
00:23:38.319Even if it's down for warranty repairs.
00:23:38.319 -->
00:23:49.119So that means the company has no incentive to get your roof fixed or to get the solar system fixed because you still have to keep making the lease payments, even though you're not getting any electricity.
00:23:49.279 -->
00:23:49.680That's right.
00:23:49.920 -->
00:24:00.160So reading the contract carefully and understanding the various terms and negotiating and saying, I'm not going to sign this contract under those terms.
00:24:00.160 -->
00:24:03.920So back to your question originally, which was the three types of contracts.
00:24:03.920 -->
00:24:15.039We have power purchase agreements, where this solar system is completely owned by the company and you're just purchasing power from it.
00:24:15.039 -->
00:24:21.920In some ways, it's similar to when you're sold choice in your utility bill through the utility company.
00:24:21.920 -->
00:24:28.000You can choose where your power comes from and you have a separate contract to purchase that power at a certain price.
00:24:28.000 -->
00:24:33.759Only in this case, we're putting a solar system on your home and you're purchasing the power from that.
00:24:33.759 -->
00:24:53.519The second type is a lease agreement, where the company owns the entire system and they put it on your home, and you have an agreement with that company for a certain period of time, usually 20 years, that you're going to pay them a lease fee, and then you get the benefit of the solar power that's generated.
00:24:53.519 -->
00:25:10.319The third type is to purchase, where you're actually going to buy the system and either finance it or take out a loan, or if you can have the capital to pay for it, you can purchase the system outright.
00:25:10.319 -->
00:25:11.759And then it's your system.
00:25:11.759 -->
00:25:41.039So if it's done correctly with a reasonable contract, it's a huge benefit to the homeowner.
00:25:41.039 -->
00:25:42.799There are pitfalls.
00:25:42.799 -->
00:25:56.799And again, like anything else, if you don't research it ahead of time, you can end up with a lot of difficulty because there's a lot of companies out there that will sell you something and put it on your home.
00:25:56.799 -->
00:26:04.079And if the contract doesn't hold them accountable and it's not working, uh, then you don't have a lot of recourse.
00:26:04.400 -->
00:26:13.599I've had quite a few um complaints in where the solar uh system has been put on and then there's leaks afterwards.
00:26:13.599 -->
00:26:14.319From the roof.
00:26:14.319 -->
00:26:14.960From the roof.
00:26:14.960 -->
00:26:15.680That's right.
00:26:15.680 -->
00:26:20.880So it's important for that roof to be um in good condition.
00:26:21.359 -->
00:26:23.759In very good condition, preferably brand new.
00:26:23.759 -->
00:26:31.920And so solar companies, I've certainly encountered it myself where they install a solar system on an old roof.
00:26:31.920 -->
00:26:45.279And the homeowner just assumes that the solar system is going to help protect the roof or extend its life, or because they installed it, then they're going to deal with any leaks.
00:26:45.279 -->
00:26:47.119You have to read what it says in the contract.
00:26:47.200 -->
00:26:47.519Yeah.
00:26:48.000 -->
00:26:50.240And it's just not the case.
00:26:50.240 -->
00:26:54.319So, yes, those kinds of things are very important to consider.
00:26:54.319 -->
00:27:00.720Uh, the age of the roof, the condition of the roof, and what are the guarantees?
00:27:00.720 -->
00:27:05.200What is the size of the system I'm purchasing, and what is the guarantee for that system?
00:27:05.200 -->
00:27:07.599Um, how long do I plan to own the home?
00:27:07.599 -->
00:27:08.640What's the terms of the lease?
00:27:08.960 -->
00:27:13.599Does it even transfer to a, if I do sell the home, does the does it transfer to the new homeowner?
00:27:14.000 -->
00:27:16.880Well, that's the issue with the lease is that you don't have a choice.
00:27:16.880 -->
00:27:22.720You the homeowner who signs that lease is responsible for that lease for the full 20 years.
00:27:22.720 -->
00:27:34.079And if you want to sell the home and the person who's purchasing the home doesn't want the solar system, it's the homeowner's responsibility to pay the buyout for that solar system.
00:27:34.319 -->
00:27:34.640That's true.
00:27:34.799 -->
00:27:38.720Or pay to have it move to a new location and continue paying the lease.
00:27:38.720 -->
00:27:40.799It's so it can be complicated.
00:27:40.880 -->
00:27:41.119Yeah.
00:27:41.279 -->
00:27:46.079Which is not to say that it it can it sometimes works out very well for homeowners.
00:27:46.079 -->
00:27:52.160But again, a lot of that has to do with how the contract is set up and whether the work was done correctly.
00:27:52.400 -->
00:27:52.720Yeah.
00:27:52.720 -->
00:27:56.079So all this, how can OC, how how do we help?
00:27:56.079 -->
00:27:58.880When when should residents uh reach out to us?
00:27:59.359 -->
00:28:13.519Well, I mean, they can reach out to us at any point, including in the vetting process, because we can certainly provide people, uh homeowners and and consumers, feedback on how to how to vet a contractor.
00:28:13.519 -->
00:28:15.599Does that contractor have a license?
00:28:15.599 -->
00:28:29.200If you don't know where to look it up in the MHIC, you can call us and we can tell you, hey, this this is where you go to look up to see if the license is active, to see if that license number is actually associated with the business we're doing business with.
00:28:29.200 -->
00:28:32.640Um, it have we had any complaints about that contractor?
00:28:32.640 -->
00:28:37.119So we can help from the very beginning.
00:28:37.119 -->
00:28:46.960This to me is I I love doing these things to inform people ahead of time about what they're getting into and how to protect themselves because that's very important.
00:28:46.960 -->
00:28:57.440I want to go back to those three categories we talked about: the criminals, the the kind of people who run in the margins and the legitimate contractors.
00:28:57.440 -->
00:28:57.680Yeah.
00:28:57.680 -->
00:29:01.519So in terms of criminals, it's difficult for people.
00:29:01.519 -->
00:29:08.640Smart, educated, well-meaning, thoughtful people can be taken advantage of.
00:29:08.640 -->
00:29:10.400I've been taken advantage of.
00:29:10.400 -->
00:29:13.279I believe I have to you have been taken advantage of.
00:29:13.279 -->
00:29:16.240And we're actually in consumer protection.
00:29:16.240 -->
00:29:20.640So there's no shame in having been deceived.
00:29:20.799 -->
00:29:21.200Yeah.
00:29:21.519 -->
00:29:27.119Because the people who are doing deceiving, criminals are actually practice, they're skilled.
00:29:27.119 -->
00:29:27.599Yes.
00:29:27.599 -->
00:29:42.960They have techniques, they've learned a lot, they have all sorts of skills that are geared towards, just like a professional who does your construction, or you go to a doctor, or you go to a lawyer, there are people who study how to deceive people.
00:29:43.200 -->
00:29:43.519That's right.
00:29:43.680 -->
00:29:45.839And so being deceived is nothing to be ashamed of.
00:29:45.839 -->
00:29:54.079So as soon as you're concerned that you may have been deceived, or that someone took cash for a job and all of a sudden you can't get in touch with them.
00:29:54.079 -->
00:30:06.880As soon as you think there's a problem, someone calls and says, I need your account information to protect your computer or to protect your account, and you thoughtlessly do it in a rush and you give it to them, and you're like, oh no, what do I do?
00:30:06.880 -->
00:30:10.400I wonder if anything, oh, I'll just wait and see what happens.
00:30:10.400 -->
00:30:11.599Not a good decision.
00:30:11.680 -->
00:30:12.000Yeah.
00:30:12.319 -->
00:30:21.359As soon as you think there's a problem, reach out to the Office of Consumer Protection, or in the case of scams dealing with your phone, you can call the FTC.
00:30:21.359 -->
00:30:27.200And that's one of the values of our uh what the Office of Consumer Protection has to offer is we'll guide you.
00:30:27.200 -->
00:30:36.079If it's not something we can help with, we'll help to guide you to who may be able to help you and where you can go to seek assistance.
00:30:36.079 -->
00:30:41.440So the first thing is as soon as you think there's a problem, talk it over, reach out to someone.
00:30:41.440 -->
00:30:41.920Okay.
00:30:41.920 -->
00:30:46.559You always start with the contractor themselves or the person themselves.
00:30:46.559 -->
00:30:49.920So hey, Mr.
00:30:49.920 -->
00:30:50.559or Mrs.
00:30:50.559 -->
00:30:51.920Contractor or Ms.
00:30:51.920 -->
00:30:56.400Contractor, whoever it is, I'm concerned about this, I have a problem.
00:30:56.400 -->
00:30:58.000Put it in writing.
00:30:58.000 -->
00:30:59.200That's the second thing.
00:30:59.200 -->
00:30:59.440Yeah.
00:30:59.440 -->
00:31:01.680When it's it should be in writing.
00:31:01.680 -->
00:31:08.799Text is okay, email is fine, uh, a certified letter is solid.
00:31:08.960 -->
00:31:09.119Yes.
00:31:09.279 -->
00:31:09.599Right.
00:31:09.599 -->
00:31:15.680But anything in writing, not just a phone conversation, never a driveway conversation without.
00:31:15.680 -->
00:31:24.640So if we had a driveway conversation, um, Michelle, I've, you know, I'm concerned about our uh the the timeline for the work that we've been doing.
00:31:24.640 -->
00:31:31.839Um I thought we were gonna have it started by uh this Saturday, and you're telling me now it's gonna be next Saturday.
00:31:31.839 -->
00:31:32.960Okay.
00:31:32.960 -->
00:31:38.480We have the driveway conversation, you assure me I do not leave it at that.
00:31:38.480 -->
00:31:48.160As soon as we're depart, we part, I go to our means of communication, whether that's email or text, and I say, This is my understanding of the conversation we had today.
00:31:48.319 -->
00:31:48.559Yeah.
00:31:48.720 -->
00:31:52.079You're definitely starting by next Saturday, correct?
00:31:52.079 -->
00:31:59.599And get a response, or at least put in writing that you had a conversation and this is what the understanding and expectation is.
00:31:59.599 -->
00:32:04.319For the an actual contract for home improvement, it's called a change order.
00:32:04.319 -->
00:32:10.480And it stipulates we've agreed to do this for this price.
00:32:10.480 -->
00:32:13.440Here's my signature, here's your signature.
00:32:13.440 -->
00:32:20.640That's a change order that changes the contract and says, Oh, we decided to do this side garden bed while we were doing the deck.
00:32:20.640 -->
00:32:23.359And now we're adding that, and this is the cost we're adding on.
00:32:23.519 -->
00:32:23.680Yeah.
00:32:23.680 -->
00:32:27.119I can't stress enough how much documentation matters.
00:32:27.119 -->
00:32:27.759Yes.
00:32:27.759 -->
00:32:28.240Yes.
00:32:28.240 -->
00:32:28.960Absolutely.
00:32:28.960 -->
00:32:29.440Yep.
00:32:29.440 -->
00:32:31.119So we can mediate.
00:32:31.119 -->
00:32:39.599Um, so if it does code maybe before it escalates to court or something, maybe we can do something um uh through mediation.
00:32:39.599 -->
00:32:44.720Um, definitely point people to the right uh regulatory agency if needed.
00:32:44.720 -->
00:32:50.400Um, and sometimes we can actually, you know, resolve the complaint beforehand.
00:32:50.720 -->
00:32:51.920And we enforce consumer protection.
00:32:52.480 -->
00:32:52.799We do.
00:32:52.799 -->
00:32:53.119We do.
00:32:53.359 -->
00:32:57.519So if there is a violation of consumer protection law, that would be part of an investigation.
00:32:57.519 -->
00:33:04.000And it would be something that we would address with the merchant or contractor in this case.
00:33:04.240 -->
00:33:04.880Yeah.
00:33:04.880 -->
00:33:11.920Matt, is there any final thoughts before I ask you a the next serious and last question?
00:33:12.319 -->
00:33:12.640Okay.
00:33:12.640 -->
00:33:29.119Um no, I think the main thing is that that to ask for help and to do your research and to and to get more than one opinion and get them in writing and vet your contractors.
00:33:29.119 -->
00:33:38.640Yeah, not just online reviews, but also testimonials from people who've had the work done by that contractor that you're looking to get done.
00:33:38.960 -->
00:33:39.359Exactly.
00:33:39.359 -->
00:33:40.079Yes.
00:33:40.079 -->
00:33:51.119So before we go, if you could design a clever tool for homeowners, what problem would it solve?
00:33:52.079 -->
00:33:56.079A clever tool for homeowners that would solve a problem.
00:33:56.079 -->
00:33:58.319Fascinating.
00:33:58.319 -->
00:34:17.039Well, I mean, the technical answer is I would provide I would provide a tool that would go into the walls without disturbing them and seal up air leakage because that's the single huge, the single largest source of energy efficiency loss in a home is air leakage through the home.
00:34:17.440 -->
00:34:18.079All right.
00:34:18.079 -->
00:34:19.760I like it.
00:34:19.760 -->
00:34:22.800Thank you so much for sharing your expertise.
00:34:23.840 -->
00:34:24.559Absolutely.
00:34:25.440 -->
00:34:27.039That wraps up today's episode.
00:34:27.039 -->
00:34:37.679Remember, do your research, verify licensing, get clear contracts, and make informed decisions before starting any home improvement project.
00:34:37.679 -->
00:34:44.719Solar and other upgrades can be excellent investments when approached thoughtfully.
00:34:44.719 -->
00:34:47.840Thanks for listening to Consumer Connection.
00:34:47.840 -->
00:34:55.679Don't forget, DM us or email us the word contractor for the How to Hire a Contractor cheat sheet.
00:34:55.679 -->
00:34:58.400We'll see you in the next episode.
00:34:58.400 -->
00:35:10.079Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and keep an eye out for upcoming episodes where we'll continue to bring you important updates and insights on consumer protection.
00:35:10.079 -->
00:35:14.480Have a topic in mind for a future episode or a question for our team?
00:35:14.480 -->
00:35:19.920Drop us an email at consumerconnection at Montgomery CountyMD.gov.
00:35:19.920 -->
00:35:31.360If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and family and stay in the loop with OCP by searching the hashtag MCGOCP on social media.
00:35:31.360 -->
00:35:36.239Remember, knowledge is key for safeguarding your consumer rights.
00:35:36.239 -->
00:35:40.159Stay informed, stay protected, and stay connected.
00:35:40.159 -->
00:35:41.760Until next time.
00:35:42.559 -->
00:35:50.159This podcast is brought to you by County Cable Montgomery, your source for news and information from the Montgomery County government.
00:35:50.159 -->
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