Mikulas: Welcome back to another podcasting episode. joining me today is Chaba Todd, the founder at ICQ Global. Chaba, thank you for coming on today and sharing your thoughts.
Csaba Toth: Thank you so much for having me.
Mikulas: So you grew up between cultures and you also studied business psychology and international management. how did that road kind of lead you to start ICQ Global?
Csaba Toth: It wasn't a straightforward one because sometimes people ask me this question, then they expect something beautiful, you know, like a story that I wanted to inspire millions of people and change the world, but that's not exactly how it happened. And I think you know that if you start a business, then usually the best solution is born out of pain and struggle. So often your real niche is the biggest challenge that you manage to overcome. And that's exactly how it happened. I lost my first company in the UK. I managed to scale it up to one of the biggest restaurant listings. In the UK, it turned into a joint venture and I lost it because on paper it made a lot of sense. In reality, it didn't. Because everything boils down to how you can get along with people and also with yourself. And I had to realize that a lot of good ideas, a lot of good solutions seemed to be working on the surface level. In reality, they were not. And that's exactly why I started my research, because it didn't make sense. That that was the exact topic of my dissertation, Eastern and Western European Joint Ventures. I had years of experience. The department where I studied is number one in the world in its category. Harvard is number two on that list. How come I couldn't put that theory into practice? So I wanted to understand it. As it turned out, a lot of people had the same issue. And that's how ICQ Global was born. And now we are present in more than 50 countries through hundreds of licensed partners.
Mikulas: Amazing. And for folks that don't know what I CQ Global is all about, could you briefly explain like what what service, what do you deliver?
Csaba Toth: Also we specialize in data driven leadership, team and culture development by measuring the nine biomarkers within psychological safety, motivational drivers, and cognitive diversity, the three invisible forces that make or break a team. Because often companies focus on what they can see and it's kind of understandable. But if you adjust the symptoms, then it's not going to be as efficient as addressing the root causes of the issues.
Mikulas: Got it, got it. And what sort of misconceptions do people usually come in with when you start working with some of these teams?
Csaba Toth: I think if you're not aware of something, if you don't know about something, that's that's still okay because you can be curious. The problem is when people think that they have the solution or they think that they know what the problem is. So they solve a problem that is not the real issue. That happens often. And you have a lot of different providers as well who have a workshop to sell, no matter what, they have something to sell. So they have to give you what they have, not what the clients need. And that's really unethical. So we never offer a solution without diagnosis. But the problem is that when it comes to people, culture, teams, leadership, it sounds like a you know a fluffy topic. It's just, yeah, be nice to people, you know, these are the five things that you have to do and it's going to be fine. That's not how it works. And definitely it is not a topic that is based on common sense and good intention. That can backfire really badly. But the good news is that there is a blueprint of why people think and behave differently. Now, most courses are about teaching others how to lead people, how to manage them, how to convince them. But barely any of them show you how to lead yourself, how to get along with yourself, how to create a kind of self awareness that you can rely on instead of outsourcing your feeling of approval and certainty other people. And that's exactly what we do.
Mikulas: So on a similar note you mentioned blueprint which piqued my interest. So how do you go about that blueprint? What do you usually start with?
Csaba Toth: So let's turn it around a little bit if you're okay with that. So do you think that your self awareness is high? Do you do you think that you know yourself?
Mikulas: Not really.
Csaba Toth: So if you have to give me a percentage from zero to hundred, what what do you think that your level of self awareness is?
Mikulas: I think it changes, but I would say seventy percent.
Csaba Toth: Okay. So I think that's that's optimistic because if you look at research, then that's not necessarily true because ninety-five percent of our actions are driven by values and beliefs we are not even aware of. So what most people know is their own habits, the narratives, the excuses, the stories that we create, the meanings that we assign to something. But that's not necessarily self awareness. It feels like it. But if you don't know how to how how something works, then how do you optimize it? You know, it's like My granny had a smartphone and she knew how to use a few apps really well. But she had no idea that it was a supercomputer. She had no idea how to upgrade it. And she had no idea how to fix it if it was broken. And most people use their mindset like that. So when you get a blueprint, it doesn't take away the uniqueness of people. It just shows you the structure. Because you cannot reflect on something that you're not aware of. But once you have a map, you have a blueprint, you can go much deeper. You understand why you do what you do, and then you can make better decisions and you can learn how to respond instead of just reacting. Now that's a new level. Sometimes I ask people that do you feel that you know yourself better than the social media algorithms and the people who were trained to take advantage of you? Because if you can say yes to that, that's very naive. I couldn't. I would have to say no. But the more you know, the better chance you have.
Mikulas: Hm. Yeah, I probably now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably less than that. and as you said, I know kind of the the excuses, the habits and all of that stuff. but you know, as you said, the the I think the more you know, kind of the the less you know or I'm not sure how how it's formulated, but I hope I got my point across that it's yeah you're definitely right that the self-awareness is is a big part. what would you say is the best way to increase that self-awareness now that you're working in helping people to to to raise that?
Csaba Toth: So I think there are few challenges with this because what you refer to is called the Dudding Kruger effect. And that's a certain type of bias, which tactically means that stupid people tend to be really confident because they have no idea how much they don't know. But the more you know, the more you realize how much more you don't know. And often that's not helping. Because confidence is the closest proxy to competence. So if somebody looks confident, then it's easy to assume that, Yeah, they know what they're talking about. There must be an austerity figure. And usually that's not necessarily the case. But now, if you have courses or even books about self-awareness, the people who need them are not going to get them because they have no idea that they need it. So the question is: how do you package it in a way that they want it? Just because people need something doesn't mean that they want it. And that's not enough if you are just reflecting. So we use assessments that in it explains the three layers of your identity, what you do, how and why. And once we do that, we can measure the mindset gap between you and your environment, you and your team, you and a country, or even another person, because everything is relative. But first we need to understand why, what's in it for me. Because let's be honest, most people are selfish. We do everything because it has to make sense. So how do you package it in a way that Do you want to understand people better? Do you want to get better results with less hassle? People are annoying you. Do you think that there's a better way of doing things? Here it is. So how you package it is often slightly different from the content. The packaging sells, but the content makes it sustainable.
Mikulas: Yeah, you you you nailed it I think. one thing that kind of interests me and I want to know what what made you start a community since you you co founded People Developers Playground. what what made you start?
Csaba Toth: A few things. One is that the higher up you go, the more you know, the more lonely the journey gets. And that's not a good feeling. So we work with a lot of coaches and consultants, and let's be honest, it's a really lonely journey because they talk to a lot of people, but you cannot tell your clients that you have a problem. Because if you're a coach, obviously you don't have any. I mean, that's your job. So you need a safe space where you can learn from other people, where you can share your struggles or your success stories. So For us, this is really important. How to create a community where people want to grow and contribute. That's the main idea. But the other thing is that when I found the solutions and I developed them, I chose the licensing model. So people can go through the same ICF accredited program, they get all the materials, it's a business in a box, and then they can use everything within their own business. And the main idea behind that is that it doesn't matter how good we are or how smart we are. If people don't know about it, or people are not using those solutions, then the impact is zero. So the question is how can you reach more people in a sustainable and scalable way? That's when you build a business, not a job. So that was my idea. When I set up the company, I had a few principles. I didn't want a physical location because that's a hassle. I didn't want anything within expired date or physical product. And that's exactly what we created. But at the same time, I also wanted to make it scalable when the revenue is not limited and the impact by the number of hours that we can work. And that's important.
Mikulas: Hmm. Chamba, you also have a book that's called Uncommon Sense in Unusual Times, and it's kind of based on all the research that you've done. what would be kind of your main takeaway that listeners should take from that book if they haven't read it?
Csaba Toth: I think the main idea is that you know, when you have the feeling that you talk to someone and you think that, yeah, look at that, they have common sense, they're really smart. Then usually what we mean by that is that, they think like us, so it's comfortable. Nothing to do with intelligence. And this is really important. That the brain likes what is familiar and what's predictable. That's why it's trying to keep you in the comfort zone. So it's a good feeling. And that's that is one of the strongest forces in team dynamics. We surround ourselves with people who think similarly. And we have plenty of case studies. A bunch of different-looking people who think the same way. Which is good for marketing, not good for business. So that's why the title is On Common Sense. So, how do you learn about this blueprint? The journey starts with you. The more you understand yourself, the easier it gets. Then you can get to the next level when you learn about other people who think and behave differently. Yes, people are. unique, but they're predictably different. And then you get to the third level, which is how to get along, how to get along with other people, and more importantly, how to get along with yourself. Because a lot of people are struggling with that. And if somebody's self-esteem is low, they're not confident, that's a really dangerous place. It's very stressful. Because their well-being depends on other people. And if your main identity Is built on something that can be taken away from you, that is extremely stressful. What's the opposite of that? You know exactly who you are, you know what you stand for, what you are against. Let's push the boundaries. You're even okay with that. You like yourself. Then you don't have to bully anyone to feel important. And you don't have to hide to feel safe. Now we can get along with other people in a healthy way. And then You can become more successful because at the end of the day, business is all about people. So, Rainmakers, yes, you can do that if you understand people. But if you don't, it doesn't matter what kind of technology you have. When all the companies have access to pretty much the same technology, what is your USP, your competitive advantage? Well, it's the people again, how they use it, what kind of rapport they can build with the clients, how creative they become. How they talk about the company? And like we discussed in the beginning, then we can use AI a lot, but I think that is changing a little bit. You look at a company that's using too much AI in terms of communication or visuals, then you think, whoa, that's lazy. What are they hiding? How can I trust a robot? Who are the people behind that? They're not good enough? What are they hiding? So I think that is changing now. This buzz is going downhill a little bit. And again the human relationships become more important.
Mikulas: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The the the human relationships and I love that you bring up kind of the people that are using AI too much in the business world because sometimes I you know open up LinkedIn and it's AI post after AI post after AI post. And it doesn't even like when I read it through it just doesn't make sense. Like the post, it's just I don't know what they are trying to say. my next question for you is that when it comes to measuring psychological safety and the discipline of finance, I saw one of your posts a few days ago. what does it look like with one real team? When they start measuring psychological safety.
Csaba Toth: So, first of all, we have to understand what psychodical safety is and isn't. Because it sounds like a buzzword. And I think it got hijacked a little bit. And some people think it's about physical comfort. Or maybe it's about being nice to people. Or maybe it's about agreement and compliance. In reality, that is the number one trait of high performing teams. So when I talk to leaders, it's a pretty easy question. If you know that that is the number one trait, do you know where your team is? No. Where was your team on psychological safety before you invested in a program? And where was your team after that? No idea. Okay, so would it make sense to know that? Because your future depends on it. The profit depends on it. Psychological safety is the feeling that you can speak up, you can ask for help, you can come up with ideas, you can contradict. What's the opposite of that? I'm going to hide my mistakes. I'm not going to ask for help. And I'm going to take credit for everything and I blame other people. Fantastic. Is that good for the business? No, it's not. But if you cannot see it, you can only experience it. And if you don't have the words, you don't have the vocabulary, how can you talk about that? So when people take the assessment, then we can look at the quality of team dynamics. And you can see that in a report. We can quantify it. We can see the biomarkers, the four biomarkers within psychological safety. We can see how polarized the team is. Meaning that let's say that you and me are in a team. And then the average is great. But when we look at the results, It turns out that you are like a fish in the water, you love it, and I feel demotivated and unsafe. How's that possible? Same environment, same leadership. Well, the difference is in our mindset. Maybe I had bad experience in the previous job. So it doesn't matter what you do, I don't believe that this is safe. And that's my reality. It's going to determine how I collaborate with you. But if I'm not aware of this topic, all you can see is probably that maybe I'm not proactive, I'm lazy. I don't have ideas. Maybe I hide something. Great. So you know that. What is the solution? Nothing. So for us, the assessment is just the very beginning. Because we work with more than 900 global teams in 50 countries. So we can see the patterns. And the results become at least more predictable. Because when it comes to business and people, guessing is not an option. It shouldn't be. And that's why we need to talk to people who are responsible for the success of the company. And often that's not necessary HR.
Mikulas: Why do you think that the most engaged teams are often the most resistant to change?
Csaba Toth: What do you think that engagement proves when people are engaged?
Mikulas: I think it proves that they're trying.
Csaba Toth: They're trying, but they're also enjoying it. So, for example, imagine if you love skateboarding and then you you re-engaged in that s sport. Fantastic. So, would you be motivated to do another sport, to change, to transform? Engagement is about
Mikulas: Not really.
Csaba Toth: protecting the status quo. I'm enjoying this. So if you make a decision based on engagement scores, how you want to transform your company, well, that's the reason why more than 70% of them fail. And 88% of them are never going to get the results that they are hoping for and paying for. So, you know, sometimes people have the data, but it's not relevant. And that's why the webinar that we do, the title says measure what matters, so you can optimize what works. Measuring what matters is important. Engagement is about entertainment. Yes, it's great. You enjoy it. Does it mean that you want to change? Well, usually that's the exact opposite. Why would you want to do that? So That's why often they're the most resistant to change.
Mikulas: Well, Chaba, what's the best place for people to follow you if they would like to continue the conversation?
Csaba Toth: Happy to catch up with anyone on LinkedIn, connect with them. We have the regular webinar. They can join the People Developers Playground. We have a lot of events. Fantastic people. We have a lot to do.
Mikulas: Amazing. I will leave links down below and Chaba, thank you for coming on and sharing your thoughts.
Csaba Toth: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
Csaba Toth: Thank you so much for having me.
Mikulas: So you grew up between cultures and you also studied business psychology and international management. how did that road kind of lead you to start ICQ Global?
Csaba Toth: It wasn't a straightforward one because sometimes people ask me this question, then they expect something beautiful, you know, like a story that I wanted to inspire millions of people and change the world, but that's not exactly how it happened. And I think you know that if you start a business, then usually the best solution is born out of pain and struggle. So often your real niche is the biggest challenge that you manage to overcome. And that's exactly how it happened. I lost my first company in the UK. I managed to scale it up to one of the biggest restaurant listings. In the UK, it turned into a joint venture and I lost it because on paper it made a lot of sense. In reality, it didn't. Because everything boils down to how you can get along with people and also with yourself. And I had to realize that a lot of good ideas, a lot of good solutions seemed to be working on the surface level. In reality, they were not. And that's exactly why I started my research, because it didn't make sense. That that was the exact topic of my dissertation, Eastern and Western European Joint Ventures. I had years of experience. The department where I studied is number one in the world in its category. Harvard is number two on that list. How come I couldn't put that theory into practice? So I wanted to understand it. As it turned out, a lot of people had the same issue. And that's how ICQ Global was born. And now we are present in more than 50 countries through hundreds of licensed partners.
Mikulas: Amazing. And for folks that don't know what I CQ Global is all about, could you briefly explain like what what service, what do you deliver?
Csaba Toth: Also we specialize in data driven leadership, team and culture development by measuring the nine biomarkers within psychological safety, motivational drivers, and cognitive diversity, the three invisible forces that make or break a team. Because often companies focus on what they can see and it's kind of understandable. But if you adjust the symptoms, then it's not going to be as efficient as addressing the root causes of the issues.
Mikulas: Got it, got it. And what sort of misconceptions do people usually come in with when you start working with some of these teams?
Csaba Toth: I think if you're not aware of something, if you don't know about something, that's that's still okay because you can be curious. The problem is when people think that they have the solution or they think that they know what the problem is. So they solve a problem that is not the real issue. That happens often. And you have a lot of different providers as well who have a workshop to sell, no matter what, they have something to sell. So they have to give you what they have, not what the clients need. And that's really unethical. So we never offer a solution without diagnosis. But the problem is that when it comes to people, culture, teams, leadership, it sounds like a you know a fluffy topic. It's just, yeah, be nice to people, you know, these are the five things that you have to do and it's going to be fine. That's not how it works. And definitely it is not a topic that is based on common sense and good intention. That can backfire really badly. But the good news is that there is a blueprint of why people think and behave differently. Now, most courses are about teaching others how to lead people, how to manage them, how to convince them. But barely any of them show you how to lead yourself, how to get along with yourself, how to create a kind of self awareness that you can rely on instead of outsourcing your feeling of approval and certainty other people. And that's exactly what we do.
Mikulas: So on a similar note you mentioned blueprint which piqued my interest. So how do you go about that blueprint? What do you usually start with?
Csaba Toth: So let's turn it around a little bit if you're okay with that. So do you think that your self awareness is high? Do you do you think that you know yourself?
Mikulas: Not really.
Csaba Toth: So if you have to give me a percentage from zero to hundred, what what do you think that your level of self awareness is?
Mikulas: I think it changes, but I would say seventy percent.
Csaba Toth: Okay. So I think that's that's optimistic because if you look at research, then that's not necessarily true because ninety-five percent of our actions are driven by values and beliefs we are not even aware of. So what most people know is their own habits, the narratives, the excuses, the stories that we create, the meanings that we assign to something. But that's not necessarily self awareness. It feels like it. But if you don't know how to how how something works, then how do you optimize it? You know, it's like My granny had a smartphone and she knew how to use a few apps really well. But she had no idea that it was a supercomputer. She had no idea how to upgrade it. And she had no idea how to fix it if it was broken. And most people use their mindset like that. So when you get a blueprint, it doesn't take away the uniqueness of people. It just shows you the structure. Because you cannot reflect on something that you're not aware of. But once you have a map, you have a blueprint, you can go much deeper. You understand why you do what you do, and then you can make better decisions and you can learn how to respond instead of just reacting. Now that's a new level. Sometimes I ask people that do you feel that you know yourself better than the social media algorithms and the people who were trained to take advantage of you? Because if you can say yes to that, that's very naive. I couldn't. I would have to say no. But the more you know, the better chance you have.
Mikulas: Hm. Yeah, I probably now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably less than that. and as you said, I know kind of the the excuses, the habits and all of that stuff. but you know, as you said, the the I think the more you know, kind of the the less you know or I'm not sure how how it's formulated, but I hope I got my point across that it's yeah you're definitely right that the self-awareness is is a big part. what would you say is the best way to increase that self-awareness now that you're working in helping people to to to raise that?
Csaba Toth: So I think there are few challenges with this because what you refer to is called the Dudding Kruger effect. And that's a certain type of bias, which tactically means that stupid people tend to be really confident because they have no idea how much they don't know. But the more you know, the more you realize how much more you don't know. And often that's not helping. Because confidence is the closest proxy to competence. So if somebody looks confident, then it's easy to assume that, Yeah, they know what they're talking about. There must be an austerity figure. And usually that's not necessarily the case. But now, if you have courses or even books about self-awareness, the people who need them are not going to get them because they have no idea that they need it. So the question is: how do you package it in a way that they want it? Just because people need something doesn't mean that they want it. And that's not enough if you are just reflecting. So we use assessments that in it explains the three layers of your identity, what you do, how and why. And once we do that, we can measure the mindset gap between you and your environment, you and your team, you and a country, or even another person, because everything is relative. But first we need to understand why, what's in it for me. Because let's be honest, most people are selfish. We do everything because it has to make sense. So how do you package it in a way that Do you want to understand people better? Do you want to get better results with less hassle? People are annoying you. Do you think that there's a better way of doing things? Here it is. So how you package it is often slightly different from the content. The packaging sells, but the content makes it sustainable.
Mikulas: Yeah, you you you nailed it I think. one thing that kind of interests me and I want to know what what made you start a community since you you co founded People Developers Playground. what what made you start?
Csaba Toth: A few things. One is that the higher up you go, the more you know, the more lonely the journey gets. And that's not a good feeling. So we work with a lot of coaches and consultants, and let's be honest, it's a really lonely journey because they talk to a lot of people, but you cannot tell your clients that you have a problem. Because if you're a coach, obviously you don't have any. I mean, that's your job. So you need a safe space where you can learn from other people, where you can share your struggles or your success stories. So For us, this is really important. How to create a community where people want to grow and contribute. That's the main idea. But the other thing is that when I found the solutions and I developed them, I chose the licensing model. So people can go through the same ICF accredited program, they get all the materials, it's a business in a box, and then they can use everything within their own business. And the main idea behind that is that it doesn't matter how good we are or how smart we are. If people don't know about it, or people are not using those solutions, then the impact is zero. So the question is how can you reach more people in a sustainable and scalable way? That's when you build a business, not a job. So that was my idea. When I set up the company, I had a few principles. I didn't want a physical location because that's a hassle. I didn't want anything within expired date or physical product. And that's exactly what we created. But at the same time, I also wanted to make it scalable when the revenue is not limited and the impact by the number of hours that we can work. And that's important.
Mikulas: Hmm. Chamba, you also have a book that's called Uncommon Sense in Unusual Times, and it's kind of based on all the research that you've done. what would be kind of your main takeaway that listeners should take from that book if they haven't read it?
Csaba Toth: I think the main idea is that you know, when you have the feeling that you talk to someone and you think that, yeah, look at that, they have common sense, they're really smart. Then usually what we mean by that is that, they think like us, so it's comfortable. Nothing to do with intelligence. And this is really important. That the brain likes what is familiar and what's predictable. That's why it's trying to keep you in the comfort zone. So it's a good feeling. And that's that is one of the strongest forces in team dynamics. We surround ourselves with people who think similarly. And we have plenty of case studies. A bunch of different-looking people who think the same way. Which is good for marketing, not good for business. So that's why the title is On Common Sense. So, how do you learn about this blueprint? The journey starts with you. The more you understand yourself, the easier it gets. Then you can get to the next level when you learn about other people who think and behave differently. Yes, people are. unique, but they're predictably different. And then you get to the third level, which is how to get along, how to get along with other people, and more importantly, how to get along with yourself. Because a lot of people are struggling with that. And if somebody's self-esteem is low, they're not confident, that's a really dangerous place. It's very stressful. Because their well-being depends on other people. And if your main identity Is built on something that can be taken away from you, that is extremely stressful. What's the opposite of that? You know exactly who you are, you know what you stand for, what you are against. Let's push the boundaries. You're even okay with that. You like yourself. Then you don't have to bully anyone to feel important. And you don't have to hide to feel safe. Now we can get along with other people in a healthy way. And then You can become more successful because at the end of the day, business is all about people. So, Rainmakers, yes, you can do that if you understand people. But if you don't, it doesn't matter what kind of technology you have. When all the companies have access to pretty much the same technology, what is your USP, your competitive advantage? Well, it's the people again, how they use it, what kind of rapport they can build with the clients, how creative they become. How they talk about the company? And like we discussed in the beginning, then we can use AI a lot, but I think that is changing a little bit. You look at a company that's using too much AI in terms of communication or visuals, then you think, whoa, that's lazy. What are they hiding? How can I trust a robot? Who are the people behind that? They're not good enough? What are they hiding? So I think that is changing now. This buzz is going downhill a little bit. And again the human relationships become more important.
Mikulas: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The the the human relationships and I love that you bring up kind of the people that are using AI too much in the business world because sometimes I you know open up LinkedIn and it's AI post after AI post after AI post. And it doesn't even like when I read it through it just doesn't make sense. Like the post, it's just I don't know what they are trying to say. my next question for you is that when it comes to measuring psychological safety and the discipline of finance, I saw one of your posts a few days ago. what does it look like with one real team? When they start measuring psychological safety.
Csaba Toth: So, first of all, we have to understand what psychodical safety is and isn't. Because it sounds like a buzzword. And I think it got hijacked a little bit. And some people think it's about physical comfort. Or maybe it's about being nice to people. Or maybe it's about agreement and compliance. In reality, that is the number one trait of high performing teams. So when I talk to leaders, it's a pretty easy question. If you know that that is the number one trait, do you know where your team is? No. Where was your team on psychological safety before you invested in a program? And where was your team after that? No idea. Okay, so would it make sense to know that? Because your future depends on it. The profit depends on it. Psychological safety is the feeling that you can speak up, you can ask for help, you can come up with ideas, you can contradict. What's the opposite of that? I'm going to hide my mistakes. I'm not going to ask for help. And I'm going to take credit for everything and I blame other people. Fantastic. Is that good for the business? No, it's not. But if you cannot see it, you can only experience it. And if you don't have the words, you don't have the vocabulary, how can you talk about that? So when people take the assessment, then we can look at the quality of team dynamics. And you can see that in a report. We can quantify it. We can see the biomarkers, the four biomarkers within psychological safety. We can see how polarized the team is. Meaning that let's say that you and me are in a team. And then the average is great. But when we look at the results, It turns out that you are like a fish in the water, you love it, and I feel demotivated and unsafe. How's that possible? Same environment, same leadership. Well, the difference is in our mindset. Maybe I had bad experience in the previous job. So it doesn't matter what you do, I don't believe that this is safe. And that's my reality. It's going to determine how I collaborate with you. But if I'm not aware of this topic, all you can see is probably that maybe I'm not proactive, I'm lazy. I don't have ideas. Maybe I hide something. Great. So you know that. What is the solution? Nothing. So for us, the assessment is just the very beginning. Because we work with more than 900 global teams in 50 countries. So we can see the patterns. And the results become at least more predictable. Because when it comes to business and people, guessing is not an option. It shouldn't be. And that's why we need to talk to people who are responsible for the success of the company. And often that's not necessary HR.
Mikulas: Why do you think that the most engaged teams are often the most resistant to change?
Csaba Toth: What do you think that engagement proves when people are engaged?
Mikulas: I think it proves that they're trying.
Csaba Toth: They're trying, but they're also enjoying it. So, for example, imagine if you love skateboarding and then you you re-engaged in that s sport. Fantastic. So, would you be motivated to do another sport, to change, to transform? Engagement is about
Mikulas: Not really.
Csaba Toth: protecting the status quo. I'm enjoying this. So if you make a decision based on engagement scores, how you want to transform your company, well, that's the reason why more than 70% of them fail. And 88% of them are never going to get the results that they are hoping for and paying for. So, you know, sometimes people have the data, but it's not relevant. And that's why the webinar that we do, the title says measure what matters, so you can optimize what works. Measuring what matters is important. Engagement is about entertainment. Yes, it's great. You enjoy it. Does it mean that you want to change? Well, usually that's the exact opposite. Why would you want to do that? So That's why often they're the most resistant to change.
Mikulas: Well, Chaba, what's the best place for people to follow you if they would like to continue the conversation?
Csaba Toth: Happy to catch up with anyone on LinkedIn, connect with them. We have the regular webinar. They can join the People Developers Playground. We have a lot of events. Fantastic people. We have a lot to do.
Mikulas: Amazing. I will leave links down below and Chaba, thank you for coming on and sharing your thoughts.
Csaba Toth: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
