Seth: this is one of my themes is the marriage between tech and construction. And you guys are like the living example, right?
Molly Abbott: So in two thousand ten, I started my career in software.
Aaryn Abbott: That was after you almost worked for the CIA.
Molly Abbott: he would tell me about their on-prem servers, and I was like, What? What are you talking about? You know, and I would have to be like, Why are you VPNing into your like
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: to get a PDF, you know? Like just use Google Drive,
Aaryn Abbott: sometime around 2010-ish, we started using this new system that was all hip and cool out of Carpenteria, Procore. we were an early Pro Core adopter. for three years in a row, our prices went up by 30%, no matter what we said. I'm like starting today like there's no chance well I have a year there's no chance I'm signing another extension. I don't even care if they come down on pricing next time. Like I'm done.
Molly Abbott: all three of us had just quit our jobs. And right at that same time, like ChatGPT, like the first version of Chat GPT had just come out.
Aaryn Abbott: We got them in and we said, look, we're done with Procore. And we can go and find an alternative, but you guys have something that's interesting. It's not quite right. And this is what we really need.
Molly Abbott: was actually a really fun phase in our startup life because we had to be so focused we have one year to build a pro core replacement AI is still there, right? So we're like, how does this how does AI fit in with all this? And the story we kept saying was we get to build the house for AI to live in. AI is just gonna grow and mature. And so what in the house is built, then then we'll be ready to have all these AI features. So we really started building it with that in mind too,
Aaryn Abbott: not about whose liability, it's about how are we performing at a higher level more proactively.
Molly Abbott: I really do think the source of truth should be the project versus like whoever bought the software.
Seth: yeah, at the end of the day, if you're building residential buildings, we want better places for people at any income level to live. You know, like that's what we want. Or we want better places for our kids to learn in schools and better hospitals for our aging parents to get their lives saved in. that's
Aaryn Abbott: Exactly.
Seth: what we actually want as a construction industry. And that's why I think it's a cool industry to be you guys have built something called constructible. I wanna kinda get to that at the end and have a little time here at the beginning to do a little bit of background and like how we got to where we are. I'd love for you to start with just since you probably got into construction early. tell me that story. Like before AI and everything else, what what what how did your career start? When did you know you wanted to do construction?
Aaryn Abbott: I I found my way to construction in a very roundabout way. Going all the way back to high school, I thought that I wanted to be a fighter pilot. And I have a brother that went to the Naval Academy and did become a fighter pilot. has recently retired from his flying days, but I had similar aspirations, you know, grew up my I had a dad that worked at NASA, you know, watched Top Gun a lot as a kid, all that kind of stuff. And I did visit the Air Force Academy as a junior. I was excited. And then I had some self-realization that I just don't really like people telling me what to do. It's just kind of a personality trait. And I was like, man, that's probably not the best thing. It it's it that's kind of the way I joke about it. It's really more that I like to understand decisions that are made. I'm a very just something at my core. I just want to be part and understand and support and be in alignment with whatever decisions are happening. And in the military you don't really get to know. You just get to be told and you gotta do it. So that that realization sort of changed directories for me. So I did the next best thing. I went and I was looking at programs with the best aerospace engineering programs across the country, and that led me to Cal Poly as one of the top Aero programs. I am. Yep.
Seth: we share an alumnus then. Slow I assume, but Okay, nice.
Aaryn Abbott: And so that is what brought me to Cal Poly originally. And I was gonna go partially to the military route as well just because of the financing support it brings. they, you know, literally pay you to go to college. But yeah, at Cal Poly, I ended up joining the 148th Space Operations Squadron out of Vandenberg Air Force Base. I became I signed up for a six year commitment, became a a satellite operator. And I got some exposure to the aerospace world from the, you know the sort of industry perspective while I was going to school and I was just like, I d I don't really know that this is what I want to do. but St. Louis Obispo, oddly enough, was a very big inspiration for me. I had traveled a decent amount as a kid. my parents were divorced from when I was a baby. Dad lived on all over the country at different times, Virginia, Texas, Colorado. But a lot of my upbringing was in suburbia and San Luis Obispo is still, you know, to some extent suburbia, but they did it in a much more compact way. It was more of an urban rural environment than anywhere else I'd been. I really thought that it was very interesting, changed the way people lived their lives, really intrigued me from a built environment standpoint. And That sort of plane of the seed that I wanted to eventually become more in into real estate development. And my path to real estate development ultimately went through construction. So I switched from aerospace in my like halfway through my sophomore year into construction management. And at it once I got into construction management, I met who would eventually become my business partner, Sean Reed. He was The operations manager for a public home builder that had a division on the Central Coast called Centex Homes. And he was doing some Cal Poly engagement in one of my classes. We hit it off, talked a bunch. He ended up hiring me as an intern, and that was around 2004. I worked with him for two years as an intern. then full time for a couple of years until the market crashed and then I was one of the final people helping to close down that office and I did I did spend time in the field. I did also spend some time in the summers. My brother's in con my oldest brother's in construction. He runs the Southwest division of Clayco. but at the time he was working at Sun, I spent time at Sun, you know, working in the field during summers and stuff. So there was that general contracting side,
Molly Abbott: In Arizona in the heat.
Aaryn Abbott: yeah, it was hot. but yeah, I had that experience both on the development side, subdivisions, home building, some some on the larger construction, larger company side, and then 2008. you know, two thousand was helping to close this Central Coast Division for Centex as the the market had totally fallen out. And I took that opportunity to go back to to school for the Masters of Real Estate Development at USC. And
Seth: Pause there because I wanna I wanna get back to you but I wanna overlap the stories a little bit. When did you guys meet? Molly,
Aaryn Abbott: Sure.
Seth: when when did you meet Aaron?
Molly Abbott: We we both went to Cal Poly and it was after just after Cal Poly. I had started a adult softball league and so I invited friends who invited their roommate and that was Aaron.
Seth: And what did your career path look like initially out of college? Like what did you wanna do?
Molly Abbott: That is a great question. I didn't really know throughout college. I was kind of bouncing around. My dad's in construction, so I had intern in this like worked at the during summertime. I was like scanning blue like actual physical blueprints and saving them
Seth: yeah.
Molly Abbott: and like digitizing stuff. I worked in a trailer like with somebody, you know, at a construction site with like spit cups everywhere. And I was like, whoo, this is this is different. I yeah, I changed majors at Cal Poly, but right after I graduated, there was a software company here in town called Mind Body in in San Luis Obispo, and it was like business management software for the wellness industry. So in two thousand ten, I started my career in software.
Aaryn Abbott: That was after you almost worked for the CIA.
Seth: Are you allowed to talk about that?
Molly Abbott: had a job offer. I had a job offer right out of Cal Poly with the CIA. And yeah, I had to go out to like Langley and I had to get a like lie detector test and it was it was all very weird. And so it was kind of cool though, because like they were doing a background check and stuff, and so I just stayed in slow. and then I got a note under my door one day that just said like, you know. No, thank you. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm not working.
Seth: Was it for real under your door?
Molly Abbott: Yeah, there was like a FedEx paper, like a pe just a piece of paper, and it was like a short thing.
Seth: Okay, okay. Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Still have it somewhere. But anyways, I still don't know why I didn't get the job, but I did have a job offer for about eight months.
Seth: And then yeah, more recently like well yeah, I wanna overlap the stories a little bit. So you guys met in college but stayed cl
Aaryn Abbott: Post yeah, post college, it was for me
Molly Abbott: That's yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: it was actually post grad school. and I had been down in LA two thousand eight to two thousand ten. I'd been and it was a weird time in the real estate development world and I had done some acquisitions consulting. I was getting paid on a commission basis when a deal closed that I had underwritten. made some great contacts and great relationships, but ultimately what brought me back to Slow was projects that me and Sean, my current business partner, had worked on when we were at Centex, had gotten bought from a private equity company. It's a long story, it's not important, but they were looking to finish some of those projects out. And they were looking for someone who had the right expertise and everything. so we got asked kind of late if we would be interested because Sean had started a small company while I was at grad school. And he basically called me up and said, Hey, why don't you help me do the you know business planning for this project? We're gonna submit an up, you know, a whole RFP response and and see what happens. So, you know, long story short, we ended up winning that work and between 2010 and 2014 we built 250 homes under that, what eventually became a very good relationship. so it was actually during during that window of time that Molly and I met. And it was, you know, through friends and all I I was play she was my coach on on our co co ed softball team.
Seth: Tell me more, Molly. What so yeah, like start talking about how because eventually I wanna get to where like your careers are overlapping and maybe Aaron, you're like, there's issues in the construction industry. And Molly, you're like, Well, let's think about how we could we're in Silicon Valley area, San Luis Obispo, the Central Coast, like maybe there's tech, like maybe just try to guide me through that path while you Molly.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, so we met and you know, I like I started working at Mind Body in twenty ten. Aaron and I started dating in twenty thirteen. And yeah, so I mean I had I had been in software and so there was just like things throughout you know, when he would tell he, you know, he would tell me about their on-prem servers, and I was like, What? What are you talking about? You know, and I would have to be like, Why are you VPNing into your like
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: to get a PDF, you know? Like just use Google Drive, you know? So there was like things like that throughout the throughout the process. But they're, you know, they're they're a pretty young company in the construction world. I talked to somebody today, a prospect today, that their company started in 1891, you know? So like
Seth: Wow, yeah.
Molly Abbott: Abbott Reed is a pretty young construction company, so they they wanna be like in you know, innovative and and stuff, which they are, they've got a really cool group over there. So
Seth: Well, tell me
Aaryn Abbott: Well
Seth: about that,
Aaryn Abbott: it.
Seth: Aaron, at the beginning, because like I started my career, I graduated Cal Poly after you, but really thought like they taught me how to draft with a pencil and with two D CAD and with three D CAD. Like I learned all three of those and I was like, that's a great education. I was so grateful to get all of that. But then I was like, 'cause I I think you should learn long division before you start using a calculator. You know what I mean? But I got launched into my career thinking like everything will be digitized right away. everything will be 3D and it will solve so many problems. And Molly, your story reminded me so much. One of my first jobs, maybe not first, but it was somewhere in there, was for a a G C and they put me in in in a trailer, but there was also like a bunch of storage units full of paper documents and they were like, Go in there and scan them all and I I scanned like a day's worth and I did this big spreadsheet calculation. We should outsource this because you're paying me this amount to do this much and it will take me this much time to do it all. It'll cost less to third party this. And they were like, We still want you to do it. And I was like, Well, I'm gonna start looking for another job then. so
Aaryn Abbott: Ha ha ha.
Seth: yeah, I don't know. I got lost in my thought train there, but yeah, what what kinds of stuff were you guys seeing in those initial Well and I'm I'm interested, like what were did you have date nights where it was just like you started talking about work and and this kind of came out of that? Or and what are those conversations
Aaryn Abbott: Well the o
Seth: like?
Aaryn Abbott: yeah, I mean the overlap didn't even there was still a number of twists and turns in the story before we really started working much closer.
Seth: Talk me through it, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: I mean there was Molly got her embryo, she We had a very like kind of group decision for her. Got an she got an opportunity to go down and work for At Folio, which is a Galita-based company. that she ended up meeting her future founders at at Folio. my company sometime around 2010-ish, we started using this new system that was all hip and cool out of Galita called or I guess Carpenteria, but Procore.
Seth: huh.
Aaryn Abbott: So we were we were an early Pro Core adopter. we did always sort of feel like we wanted to be on the cutting edge of technology. We're not a giant company. I mean, we're, you know, fifty million a year revenue. It's a you know, San Luis Obispo, you know, is not that big of a marketplace. but we wanted to be very tech forward. We always were like a Mac company, which is very unusual for construction. we like the the simpler, you know, more graphical user interface, more friendly. It was kind of that it was more fun to use, you know, like it just is a more enjoyable experience than what you experience on on the PC side of the world in in our opinions. and there was less risk from the, you know, viral. All that type of stuff, cybersecurity being the closed system that it is. But we, you know, so we did all that. We were early to the cloud, we were early to Procore, we were sort of an adoption partner of Procore, where we were helping to provide feedback early, very engaged in the product. we really did.
Molly Abbott: I also helped them I also helped them start adopting Slack too, because I was using Slack at work and I was like,
Seth: wow.
Molly Abbott: You guys gotta use this. And so they
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: use they use Slack probably one of the only construction companies for a while using Slack.
Seth: I bet.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, and that w I mean that was a little later.
Molly Abbott: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: but it was yeah, we were we we were always trying to be very digital first, but it is true we were VPN off of a you know, a Mac server that we set up and operated. and we did fall behind that curve a bit. And then yeah, well, I mean you should talk a little bit more about your experience. Going down to Atfolio, like that was a whole thing. Sha Molly and I were newlyweds and she was, you know, living four days a week in Santa Barbara.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, we just got married, and then I was like, I got this job in Santa Barbara. I'll see you later. So yeah, I got an apartment in in Santa Barbara and work was working at Folio, which is property management software. and so it's accounting based software. it was a great company. I learned a ton and there was just really good people at work there. And so that's where I met my co founders. but we were that's like kind of the first step of like, he's in. construction and real estate development. And then this is like property management and you know, investment management software. So like it's kind of started to merge there a little bit because building and selling apartments who may or may not be using Appfolio. So that was kind of like where our careers started to overlap a little bit.
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: But I think the really important change when domino started falling is your partner John basically was like, I need to do something entrepreneur. Like I'm entrepreneurial. I'm overwhelmed. I've got 400 engineers that work for me. I'm tired of being like an HR manager. I like programming too much. And basically what he told Molly, and I I should let her tell the story, but I've witnessed and you know had all these conversations and seen all these things. And it was Molly, you're the best product manager that we have at Outfolio. I enjoy working with you. We need to do something interesting. And I'm I'm willing to quit, but I don't know that that's the right thing. And so they had these long conversations with leadership at Outfolio that resulted in them getting an opportunity to do something interesting. So you should sort of explain that.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. So at Outfolio, John and I started working together on kind of like a little startup initiative within Outfolio for short term rentals. So like it property management, but just for like Airbnb and VRBOs. so we try to, we went down that venture for a bit and built a great team. And that was like pretty key into what what we're doing now. We built this great team within Outfolio.
Aaryn Abbott: And a great product.
Molly Abbott: yeah, and a great and a great product. Yeah. it was great 'cause it was kind of like a little experience of like starting our own thing and then it got c
Seth: Probably gave you a lot of like, I'd like to do it this way in the future and not that way. And yeah.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So
Seth: Yeah, what came after that?
Aaryn Abbott: In a and a taste of you know, I I like to describe Molly as she's extremely talented. She is great intuition.
Seth: You're biased, but
Aaryn Abbott: I'm very biased.
Molly Abbott: Really clearly very biased.
Aaryn Abbott: but I but I've seen I have also have a lot of inside knowledge and experience. But she sees a lot of things early. She and very much in the technology space. and great intuition, but Throughout her career, she's she she's not as outspoken as I would say the sort of modern corporate America sort of demands. Like you have to be like almost overly confident. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Seth: But thank you, Molly, for not being that 'cause I like it better without some of that. Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: Many many of us do, but I'm just saying, like, so sh her voice in in the setting of an atfolio was often underappreciated. And I think on this project. John, you know, having a lot of talent, liking to work with Molly, believing and seeing the same thing that I'm talking about. I think there was something there that was interesting and exciting, and Molly got a real seat at the table. And so I think there was there was a seed there that was like, we gotta explore this more. So anyway, that then this is the moment that Emma becomes a part of their three co-found founder partnership. They had all three of them had worked together previously and they got the o opportunity to go to Y Combinator. And in a very
Seth: Tell me about that, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: unique situation because it yeah, I mean you tell but it was under the the like no we don't know what we're doing category.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, we had just we had all three of us had just quit our jobs. And right at that same time, like ChatGPT, like the first version of Chat GPT had just come out. So like everyone's kind of like, what is it? Like AI, what is Chat GPT? It was like late 2022. when we quit our jobs in early 2023, we we applied to Y Combinator because a friend was like, Hey, you like you should apply. and they had for whatever reason are they Y Combinator was trying a thing where you didn't have to have an idea to apply, you just had to have a team. So we applied as a team and then we got we got in like I don't know how, but we got in. And so when we went we started going through Y Combinator and we we were exploring ideas, but we just we just kept landing on construction because We just felt like there's three forces of of like, you know, there's this new technology that's really good at read like reading PDFs and emails. Like L LMs are really good at that. There's like a generational wave too. Like younger people are coming up into the industry that like don't have tolerance for bad software. And you know,
Seth: Do you think?
Molly Abbott: people are retiring and so we just felt pretty strongly that it was like a really good industry for us to go into. Plus our background, all of us had worked on real estate, or real estate and property management, just like business management platform software. So yeah, so that's okay.
Seth: Yeah, it sounds like if I
Aaryn Abbott: Well there was pro
Seth: read wrong, sorry too. And sorry I'm interrup if I'm interrupting, but yeah, it it sounded like you started with kind of a narrow focus at Y combinator and it became a lot bigger, like, tell me about that. Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. So we yeah, so you know, it was 2023. So everyone was a co-pilot for something. And so we were the AI co-pilot for construction. it was really cool at the time. We plugged into all of your data so like we could connect to SharePoint and your email and Pro Core or Autodesk, and we aggregated it all. It's and you could ask questions and find the answers, which at the time was a very cool thing to do. Our John, who's our CTO, like was like the best at it's called RAG Retrieval Augmented
Seth: Yes.
Molly Abbott: Generation. we have like the best pipeline and construction's wild because it has so many PDFs and documents, just like the massive amount. So we had to use all these models and stuff. It was very cool and it demoed very well. But what we, you know, we've got users paying customers. We put it out there and people are like, yeah, like. I'll I'll use this all the time. And then no one used it. And we're like, huh, like something's going on here. But what that did is it got us to talk to a lot of construction companies, got our foot in the door, and we just kept hearing over and over again, like people were fed up with pricing of Procore, like it like old and clunky software. They're they're not treating us well. And, you know, we were like, we you know, we heard that enough times. And then Aaron's renewal was coming up, and everyone at his office was very pissed off. And they again, they were like early customers of Procore, a design partner, had been like customers like 12 or some 10 plus years. and so he's like, I want to invite your team to come talk to us. And so he they like brought our whole team in. And just said like this is what we want. We want you to build a platform. Like, yeah, yes, your AI search is cool. Have that be part of the product. and so that's when we did our major pivot is we had we had heard it enough times and then we had we knew we had people that were willing to work with us to build it out. Like
Seth: Yeah, tell me, Erin, like what were the okay, this is what's I mean, maybe we don't need to completely disparage Procore here, because it's true of probably all the software we built for construction, maybe hopefully other than constructible in the future as we continue. But like, tell me that list of like we can't deal with this anymore. Or in order to grow the way we want to grow and do the things we want to do, these legacy softwares aren't working for us in these ways. And then Bringing that to somebody like Molly and her team, like I bet it was refreshing to just have them be like, You tell us what you need and we're gonna dedicate, put our heads down and like actually customize this thing for you. talk about that conversation.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, I mean there's the the I I feel like while I skipped over like the dramatic part a little bit, but there was like a meeting where well I should back up. So Procore's fine. I don't want to disparage Procore.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: it's a good product, it's it's done a lot of good in the industry. In fact, when you go back into the you know 2010 timeframe, like it was a nightmare to collaborate between owners. And subcontractors and coordinate that information, plans, drawings, documents, invoicing everything. So they did solve a lot of problems. And the AI era created a new opportunity because they were solving a collaboration issue of a disjointed industry with a lot of disparate parties. And AI was now taking, hey, if you have really good structured data. You can find things fast, you can learn things fast, you can see trends, you can see issues around, you know, there was a lot, and Molly was working on that. And there had been a lot of conversations on that topic that that led to the point that Molly and her team were working in that area. But what really brought it all to a head is this annual renewal process with Procor. And part of it is the way that they price, part of it is the value that they had got they they had grown into extraction mode, right? There's all these software companies, they have, they just want to get product market fit, then they want to grow and they'll do anything to grow. And then they get to a certain size and it and they turn from growth mode into extraction mode. And you felt it as a customer. And
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: for three years in a row, our prices went up by 30%, no matter what we said. And on the third year that this conversation happened, it it got to the point where I was directly engaged. You know, like I had team members that would handle it the majority of the time. And then at this point it had just gotten bad enough that I'm talking to them and I go, guys, this we can't do this. And they literally said
Seth: Yeah, it reminds me of your one of the things you initially said about like we're a medium sized contractor. We're not huge. And it's like I think about smart firms doing a lot less revenue than you that are doing construction. And what are they doing? You know, it's so i I really see that tension between like, Hey, we're not HP or you know, DPR and all those other guys who this is a drop in the bucket for them, a software subscription, but for you it's a big deal, even
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah.
Seth: being medium sized. And there's a lot of smaller than you out there, you know.
Aaryn Abbott: For sure. And it's both, you know, even the big guys though, it's still a share of revenue. They might get a better
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: revenue rate than we get because of their scale, but as a rev share and the way that it's done and what they're asking us to do and odd trying to audit books and do all these it's it is a lot and you're like, Look, I'm trying to grow to a larger margin and you're trying to take the maximum amount of my revenue as you can. And it and it felt like like we were telling them and they just didn't hear us. They didn't care. And it and it felt like that. So that if I was to disparage at all, it was that from a customer standpoint, you felt very helpless. And you could see that like this trajectory doesn't work. And you're not like you're not interested in working with me to find a solution that might work for both of us. So it was very much like we got to a point that we're We were done. And we s we did get forced into signing another renewal. And I'd say forced, like obviously we had a choice, but we were
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: where, you know, we're halfway through seven projects of, you know, $10, $15 million projects. Like it would have been very complicated at the time. I had started looking at Autodesk as an alternative. They could do things more cost effective, but it's like a six month onboarding process that you're paying a consultant. fifteen thousand dollars and all this stuff to transfer your data and so this is the context and with all of that's happening and I have this phone conversation that I'm just like I'm I'm over it man. Like I so we signed the renewal but I'm like starting today like there's no chance well I have a year there's no chance I'm signing another extension. I don't even care if they come down on pricing next time. Like I'm done. And so it was at that moment that I said, Molly I need You and your partners, because we were using the product that they had built. Like we had constructible built into everything. We we gave them access to our email, to our Procore, to our Google Drive. Like we were we could ask questions and it and it felt disjointed. And so at the time, like we were piloting, but Molly's like, you guys don't use it that much.
Seth: Mm.
Aaryn Abbott: And it's like, well, it's it needs to be a part of. the system like Procore is currently our operating system in the field.
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: Like you spend all you spend eighty percent of your time in Procore. And so
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: when it's a separate system, it just feels weird and awkward and you forget. So anyway, so I I tell Maul like I'm like, I need you and your partner. Like you guys just come to slow. Make it make it a half day. But we we're gonna have a meeting. Like I've got my executive team, my operations manager, my building manager, my business partner. Our CFO, like we're all gonna be there. I need you and your business partners to be there. We got them in and we said, look, we're done with Procore. And we can go and find an alternative, but you guys have something that's interesting. It's not quite right. And this is what we really need. And so we had gone through and we had basically said, like, for us to change to a different horse in a year, like we need this functionality. This is the This is the actual fun functionality that in ProPore we rely on. There's other stuff, there's nice to have, there's this could be better, but like this is the core functionality we need. And I looked at them and I'm like, I know you got like you are extremely talented, John. I've seen what you can do. Like, I know you could do this. And Molly and Emma both have a vast amount of experience at product development and everything. So I was just like,
Seth: Yeah, I bet that did like feed Molly, you're just like this is how we wanna do help them with adoption. And I bet it gave you a really good kind of path to just 'cause you could be client focused. You know, you're listening to your husband about like what it's it seems like a great situation. Go ahead.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. It they they say in like the software world, like when you pivot it should feel like a warm hug. And it like it did. It like we're like, this feels right. Like we've built these things before.
Seth: I'm sure there was I I'm also interested in like the how that actually worked out and then if it was hard for you guys to pivot and because like you're thinking of it one way and he's saying, No, we don't need that. I'm sure there was conflict, but I bet you learned out of that too. But yeah, talk about like it's been three year or over three years now, right? Like it it's evolved
Molly Abbott: Yeah.
Seth: a lot and like has Aaron been a big part of that and other clients, do they Are your clients shaping your product and tell me about it? Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Tot totally. Huge, huge part. Aaron's a huge part. So like the first year, we really just like went heads down, like we we were like, Okay, we think there's more than just Aaron's company that wants this. So we need to go out and
Aaryn Abbott: Can we
Molly Abbott: find them.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, can we just I wanna I sort of wanna finish the punchline and then go
Seth: Please.
Aaryn Abbott: into this part of the story because there was a moment in that meeting where I basically looked at John and I'm like, John, you can build all this, right? Like we had just gone through the
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: and he looked at me and he's like, Yeah, totally. And John's funny because he's very like you give him a direction and he can sprint, you know, but he needs a direction.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: So I looked at him, I'm like, I know you could do this. You could do this, right? And he looks at me, he's Yeah, I could totally do this. And so there was like a moment when that conversation felt very much like, amazing, they're gonna do this. Like
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: it felt great on both sides, but as a good product manager should, there was like then a pause moment where they went, Okay, if we are gonna do this, there's a market validation that we actually have to go do. It can't just be Abbott Reed's willing to, you know, to do this, we need to know that there's a real need out there. And so you guys then went and talked to many dozens of companies.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, we yeah, we we were like, okay, we get we need Abbott Reed and we need like 10 other companies to like work with us. So we like cold called people and cold outreach and we found 10 companies that would meet with us like once every two to three weeks and help us build things out. So we just we worked with them and they're like we're like, what's the core of what you need? And you know, just we just talked to a lot of customers. We go, I'd go awkwardly, go hang out. In Aaron's office and be like, what are you doing here? What is this? What does this mean? How are you set setting this to middle? And so just going, you know, just really just doing tons of user research and having goals of like features we need to build. It was actually a really fun phase in our startup life because we were had to be so focused because we knew the renewal was in one year. So we're like, we have one year to build a pro core replacement for them. And we kind of said, like, This is great, like because AI is still there, right? So we're like, how does this how does AI fit in with all this? And the story we kept saying was like, this is actually great because we get to build the house for AI to live in. And so while we're building the house, like AI is just gonna grow and mature. And so what in the house is built, then then we'll be ready to have all these AI features. So we really started building it with that in mind too, which is kind of cool because now we're at a point now where we We do have all these cool like AI features and stuff. But f at that time it was like we are gonna build a way to d create something and edit something and delete something and send a submittal and send an RFI and so it was like we were hyper focused, which was fun.
Aaryn Abbott: But yeah, this was very much this was like Molly described this several times to me as like we're now in level three. You know, she had level one was like, we're gonna do construction
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: and we're doing all this market validation and construction. Level two, they're like, okay, we've got, we're gonna do this like AI intelligence layer of trying to solve the documentation. and coordination factor with a layer of intelligence. And then there was this level three of okay, no, we still want vertical structured software. Like everyone needs that help because structured data is the most important layer. And it's just better to provide that intelligence layer if you actually are are the like builder of the structured data layer. And that was like that that design partner phase where, you know, they it it was a big push to go and secure, you know, make their pitch and get people who were willing to dedicate time and energy. And it wasn't just us. And
Seth: Mm.
Aaryn Abbott: it turned out there was quite a few companies like ours that were in the same boat.
Seth: Yeah, you and I, Molly, we kind of in the call previous to this, we we connected on like the whole when I'm trying to talk to people about AI and in construction, they imagine I'm saying, like, we'll throw it in a chat bot and hope that what comes out is great. And there's so much more to it. We talked about deterministic workflows and how you actually get there. And a lot of it is creating that backbone that you're talking about now, you know? But wasn't that a hard thing to pitch to even those early ten who maybe are already early adopters? But tell me what that was like. Weren't they all very skeptical and how has your pitch changed over time to address it?
Molly Abbott: Yeah, I mean, you kinda you know, in the startup world they kind of say like you you find the desperate ones first and so you you called enough people and there was the there was the desperate one that like just had their renewal, they they're forward thinking too, like, hey, we know we know AI is gonna play a big deal in here, so like we'll we'll dedicate some time to help you. But yeah, I mean it was a it was a grind. Like it was it was awkward too, because we're like trying to sell a product that wasn't quite on the market yet, you know, and to see if there was any interest and and stuff. So yeah, that
Aaryn Abbott: And it helped that you guys had the at Folio resume because they were very accomplished in vertical software already, that they had the Y combinator, you know, all there's a de not everyone in construction, but there's a decent number of people who are like, Yes, I know what that is. with the equity behind them. So it was like, Hey, we're from a construction standpoint, we're trying to figure out what this means. The world's changing, everyone, you know. you listen to any podcast or read any news article and it's like if you're not engaged in AI, you're behind. So you're like, I don't even know what the you know, so why not figure that out in partnership with somebody who's great at technology?
Seth: Makes a lot sense. I kind of want to throw a curveball. It will I mean we can dive back into the same things we've been talking about, but I'm just it made me think like I maybe both of you could answer and maybe you'll have similar answers. But what do you guys think is the most the best source of job site data that like you really trust now? Is it are we going to a place where it's all gonna come from a video camera on site? Is it daily logs or still like I keep thinking? I I don't know, I I probably haven't told you guys this, maybe Molly, but I've told my podcast a lot. I started my career in forensic construction management. So working for attorneys and the one thing I realized during those like six or seven years is handwritten stuff is more reliable than spreadsheets. And like my favorite thing was looking at photos and daily logs to figure out what actually happened on a construction project. And I wonder how that will change and also how you guys Maybe Molly on the like, we want to prioritize this kind of data 'cause we trust it in our system and maybe from Aaron's perspective it's a little different. Like you know the hierarchy of what to trust and what not to trust.
Molly Abbott: yeah, I
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: can go I can go first. Yeah. I like the best data is like the day the well, like I'll use a phrase like the best PPE is the PPE that you wear, right? and so it's just I kind of think it's the same thing with data. Like if if it's really hard to fill out a daily log or stuff isn't working, like you'd rather you you need that data. And so you just have to make it extremely easy. For someone on site where it's loud and messy and dirty and the internet's not working to capture
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: data. And so as long as you make that easy for somebody to do, that like that's the best way that it's gonna go. So like we we often say like, we don't wanna change anyone's habits. We just kind of like wanna insert ourselves into those habits that they already have established and just make it way easier. And then you could teach somebody who's not gonna be willing to put in the time. to do things a little differently or a little easier as they're like already establishing that habit. So I you know, there's there's certain things that make you know, with with AI now, you know, it c it can take unstructured data and put it in a structured way. So as long as we are doing that at a r at a at a good rate, as long as we are doing a good job at that and displaying the data, I think, I think that's like hugely important, like just capturing phone calls, you know, no one wants to take a
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Molly Abbott: phone call and then take a note. It's just like if it's just automatically doing that, like how amazing is that?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Molly Abbott: every there's so many things in emails are that are outside of your system, like capturing that. So I and I do think like photos and daily logs and viewing drawings are like the heaviest use features in our software.
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: so yeah yeah. But we we really focus on mid-sized general small to mid sized general contractors. So they're not setting up these like super expensive, like on site cameras that are filming the whole time. So that's
Seth: Sure.
Molly Abbott: why that's why we have to make it easy for the the human out there to capture date like
Seth: I like the PPE analogy too though, because it does make me think maybe Aaron can speak to this, but like you need the foreman or the superintendent or in some cases even the laborers information. And how do we get them to give it to us and remove friction and barriers? Aaron, have you learned a lot about that? Like how you get the best data from a construction project? Is it by engaging those people in the field as best as possible? Am I wrong?
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, no, and and I think I think all of those things are true. So the daily logs I still think to this day is one of the best tools. Seth, I agree with your assessment of when you're looking back and trying to understand what what happens. Like the daily log is is not just the information, it's not just the photos, it's not just who's there, but it's also the judgment that the
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: superintendent has that they're providing on a daily basis to the project. So that reflection of that judgment so important. And if Molly's team makes it incredibly easy to get that judgment communicated and captured, which they have, it becomes an incredibly useful. And then it's Also the meetings. So you have subcontractor meetings where you are engaging the workforce and the foreman. You have the ownership OA and C meetings where you're engaging the consultants and the owner. Capturing that information is so important, that meeting minute and the those communications. So I think both of those things have made it really important. And then it's surfacing the right information in the right ways at the right time. The plan thing that Molly talked about, One of the things that's so great is, you know, Procore got a has a good template for plan management. Constructible took that, expanded on it, and added a layer of intelligence to it. So something like a transformation we were going through at the same time that Molly's team was developing the product was getting far more engaged in a pre-construction process and a history and knowledge of what changed over time with the most important design. Design decisions all the way from before we even had a permit. So we would be reviewing plans, somebody's marking stuff up, redlining something, circling issues, describing more detail thing, you know, and you give all this feedback, you hand that over to the architect or the civil or whoever, and then that information's gone. And whether or not they actually captured it, and if they captured it, and then we find it again three months later, six months later, one, we get stuck in the field. That history is so important. And with the product that Molly envisioned and that we now rely on, we can make that digital markup very fast, very cleanly, in a collaborative way, that everyone's seeing the same thing, that history is preserved. And then as we get new versions of the plans layered on top of, we can go back and compare and see what if that change actually got captured. what the context around that change was, what the conversation, and that all of that knowledge is now accessible. And so, and then you have the layer of AI and it makes it easier to surface the things. So as long as it's all there and it's structured, then it's like, hey, what happened with this? And it goes, well, this markup happened and then this got changed into revision one. And then when you publish that, you know, we ended up with this RFI and we got this final answer. You know, so it that's that's been incredibly useful.
Seth: Do you guys think like I think a lot about who should we be building tech for in the construction industry? And my latest kind of hypothesis or thesis is kinda y Molly, you're like confirming this for me because I feel like you've said multiple times it's about if people will use it and make it easy to use. And like without yeah, adoption, it's it's kind of worthless. But I just I kinda lost my train of thought there. I I wonder who like is it you guys are mainly targeting general contractors or that level. I think a lot about OAC meetings and I'm like the owner, the architect, and the contractor might and then there's subcontractors and vendors and all kinds of other we might all develop our own little AI helper and system and then all of our individual systems will combat just the way they used to, but they'll be even better at fighting each other. So I just wonder if there's a way to like make tech for the project and the community that we're building in. And I bet you guys are smiling at me now. I know you want to do that too. Like, what is your approach to how do we actually serve the projects and the communities and not just the GC or the sub?
Molly Abbott: Yeah, I love that. I spent a lot of time thinking about this, and this is something I d like desperately want to solve. And I think I think our technology, we've built it in a way that will solve this. but yeah, it's a it's like it's about the project, you know, and so the project is the source of truth. And ca there, you know, we're there's so many different scenarios where the you know it's like really sad if all these people are using different systems, but you have to use the GC system. But then you have to copy those all those PDFs into your system. And it's just like such a waste of time, you know? And it should be like, hey, the project is the source of truth. And so everyone should have their own their own data if they're part of this project. So we we we have lots of thoughts on that. and I do think in the near future there will be an easy way to be like, hey, if you're part of this project, all of this data is yours as well. And it's easy to get
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: that data. And Potentially use that for your own you know, your own system as well.
Seth: And it feels like low hanging fruit for AI to provide value in that case. You know, link this to this and help us there's just a mess of connections that I think AI can help us untangle.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, I mean that's why you know the constructible has an MCP and all that means is now your your Cloud agent or your Chat GPT agent can talk to constructible, which how wonderful is that is if you know if you're using a different system you can connect to that. So you just don't have to be technical anymore to do these integrations. You just have to like log in, which is kind of cool. So I love
Seth: Very
Molly Abbott: that evolution. and so I that will I think that will just start that will just ex expand and be more accessible. So yeah, I I really do think the source of truth should be the project versus like whoever bought the software.
Seth: We're gonna have to do this.
Aaryn Abbott: Well and I
Seth: Yeah, go ahead, Erin. Sorry.
Aaryn Abbott: well, I just wanted to throw out there that I think one of the really important differences that I think constructible is attempting to deliver versus the experience with just the other one I have the most experience with, which is Procore. And like I had this really interesting insight from an architect that we work with a lot, that he says, Well, is this a Procore job or not? And I was like, well, yeah, this is a pro core job. And he goes, okay. And I go, well, what does that mean? And he goes, Well, I'm just trying to figure out how much contract admin there's going to be. Because when it's a pro core job, you lower the barrier to submitting an RFI, therefore the number of RFIs is increased, right? And I was like, that's a really interesting insight. That you make it easier to do something, it's going to get done more. But that is with a very clear lens of. We're all playing the game of passing the liability. And everyone's doing and this I think is related to your question of whose software system, what is their objective? And if the objective is I don't, I'm gonna do my part to not carry liability, that is an objective. And if you maximize it, it's not adding efficiency, it's not improving the project, but it might be protecting you as a as a business. On the other hand,
Seth: Hopefully not long, long term, you know. Hopefully that becomes your reputation and people stop wanting to work with you. But yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, but but I mean there is an element of that in all of these interactions. But I think on the other end of that is you actually have a culture, a company, partners, owners, people, consultants, and a and a software technology service that were like, actually the goal is to solve the problem. Like we actually want to get the right design, we want to save the owner money, we wanna Eliminate liability for everybody. We want to make fewer mistakes. We want to have the right answer earlier in the process so that there's not missed coordination, delayed schedules, rework costs. And I do think that like that's happening right now. I've seen it being now using constructible. Like I can honestly say that I the trend for me is getting better. There's more trust, there's better collaboration. more proactive proactivity and and I think that's like a really important difference. It's not about whose liability, it's about how are we performing at a higher level more proactively.
Seth: And like, yeah, at the end of the day, if you're building residential buildings, we want better places for people at any income level to live. You know, like that's what we want. Or we want better places for our kids to learn in schools and better hospitals for our aging parents to get their lives saved in. that's
Aaryn Abbott: Exactly.
Seth: what we actually want as a construction industry. And that's why I think it's a cool industry to be in. And it shouldn't get But I think tech can help us in ways that I hope you guys are a part of. I'm excited about it. I want to do a follow up because I really do only have three more minutes, but I could talk to you guys for hours. So we'll have to do another one. And thanks again for coming on. And I will point everyone to constructable.ai, correct? and reach out definitely to Molly on LinkedIn if you would want Aaron as well. I think they're both there. thanks guys.
Molly Abbott: Thanks, Set. This
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, thank you, Sad.
Molly Abbott: is awesome.
Molly Abbott: So in two thousand ten, I started my career in software.
Aaryn Abbott: That was after you almost worked for the CIA.
Molly Abbott: he would tell me about their on-prem servers, and I was like, What? What are you talking about? You know, and I would have to be like, Why are you VPNing into your like
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: to get a PDF, you know? Like just use Google Drive,
Aaryn Abbott: sometime around 2010-ish, we started using this new system that was all hip and cool out of Carpenteria, Procore. we were an early Pro Core adopter. for three years in a row, our prices went up by 30%, no matter what we said. I'm like starting today like there's no chance well I have a year there's no chance I'm signing another extension. I don't even care if they come down on pricing next time. Like I'm done.
Molly Abbott: all three of us had just quit our jobs. And right at that same time, like ChatGPT, like the first version of Chat GPT had just come out.
Aaryn Abbott: We got them in and we said, look, we're done with Procore. And we can go and find an alternative, but you guys have something that's interesting. It's not quite right. And this is what we really need.
Molly Abbott: was actually a really fun phase in our startup life because we had to be so focused we have one year to build a pro core replacement AI is still there, right? So we're like, how does this how does AI fit in with all this? And the story we kept saying was we get to build the house for AI to live in. AI is just gonna grow and mature. And so what in the house is built, then then we'll be ready to have all these AI features. So we really started building it with that in mind too,
Aaryn Abbott: not about whose liability, it's about how are we performing at a higher level more proactively.
Molly Abbott: I really do think the source of truth should be the project versus like whoever bought the software.
Seth: yeah, at the end of the day, if you're building residential buildings, we want better places for people at any income level to live. You know, like that's what we want. Or we want better places for our kids to learn in schools and better hospitals for our aging parents to get their lives saved in. that's
Aaryn Abbott: Exactly.
Seth: what we actually want as a construction industry. And that's why I think it's a cool industry to be you guys have built something called constructible. I wanna kinda get to that at the end and have a little time here at the beginning to do a little bit of background and like how we got to where we are. I'd love for you to start with just since you probably got into construction early. tell me that story. Like before AI and everything else, what what what how did your career start? When did you know you wanted to do construction?
Aaryn Abbott: I I found my way to construction in a very roundabout way. Going all the way back to high school, I thought that I wanted to be a fighter pilot. And I have a brother that went to the Naval Academy and did become a fighter pilot. has recently retired from his flying days, but I had similar aspirations, you know, grew up my I had a dad that worked at NASA, you know, watched Top Gun a lot as a kid, all that kind of stuff. And I did visit the Air Force Academy as a junior. I was excited. And then I had some self-realization that I just don't really like people telling me what to do. It's just kind of a personality trait. And I was like, man, that's probably not the best thing. It it's it that's kind of the way I joke about it. It's really more that I like to understand decisions that are made. I'm a very just something at my core. I just want to be part and understand and support and be in alignment with whatever decisions are happening. And in the military you don't really get to know. You just get to be told and you gotta do it. So that that realization sort of changed directories for me. So I did the next best thing. I went and I was looking at programs with the best aerospace engineering programs across the country, and that led me to Cal Poly as one of the top Aero programs. I am. Yep.
Seth: we share an alumnus then. Slow I assume, but Okay, nice.
Aaryn Abbott: And so that is what brought me to Cal Poly originally. And I was gonna go partially to the military route as well just because of the financing support it brings. they, you know, literally pay you to go to college. But yeah, at Cal Poly, I ended up joining the 148th Space Operations Squadron out of Vandenberg Air Force Base. I became I signed up for a six year commitment, became a a satellite operator. And I got some exposure to the aerospace world from the, you know the sort of industry perspective while I was going to school and I was just like, I d I don't really know that this is what I want to do. but St. Louis Obispo, oddly enough, was a very big inspiration for me. I had traveled a decent amount as a kid. my parents were divorced from when I was a baby. Dad lived on all over the country at different times, Virginia, Texas, Colorado. But a lot of my upbringing was in suburbia and San Luis Obispo is still, you know, to some extent suburbia, but they did it in a much more compact way. It was more of an urban rural environment than anywhere else I'd been. I really thought that it was very interesting, changed the way people lived their lives, really intrigued me from a built environment standpoint. And That sort of plane of the seed that I wanted to eventually become more in into real estate development. And my path to real estate development ultimately went through construction. So I switched from aerospace in my like halfway through my sophomore year into construction management. And at it once I got into construction management, I met who would eventually become my business partner, Sean Reed. He was The operations manager for a public home builder that had a division on the Central Coast called Centex Homes. And he was doing some Cal Poly engagement in one of my classes. We hit it off, talked a bunch. He ended up hiring me as an intern, and that was around 2004. I worked with him for two years as an intern. then full time for a couple of years until the market crashed and then I was one of the final people helping to close down that office and I did I did spend time in the field. I did also spend some time in the summers. My brother's in con my oldest brother's in construction. He runs the Southwest division of Clayco. but at the time he was working at Sun, I spent time at Sun, you know, working in the field during summers and stuff. So there was that general contracting side,
Molly Abbott: In Arizona in the heat.
Aaryn Abbott: yeah, it was hot. but yeah, I had that experience both on the development side, subdivisions, home building, some some on the larger construction, larger company side, and then 2008. you know, two thousand was helping to close this Central Coast Division for Centex as the the market had totally fallen out. And I took that opportunity to go back to to school for the Masters of Real Estate Development at USC. And
Seth: Pause there because I wanna I wanna get back to you but I wanna overlap the stories a little bit. When did you guys meet? Molly,
Aaryn Abbott: Sure.
Seth: when when did you meet Aaron?
Molly Abbott: We we both went to Cal Poly and it was after just after Cal Poly. I had started a adult softball league and so I invited friends who invited their roommate and that was Aaron.
Seth: And what did your career path look like initially out of college? Like what did you wanna do?
Molly Abbott: That is a great question. I didn't really know throughout college. I was kind of bouncing around. My dad's in construction, so I had intern in this like worked at the during summertime. I was like scanning blue like actual physical blueprints and saving them
Seth: yeah.
Molly Abbott: and like digitizing stuff. I worked in a trailer like with somebody, you know, at a construction site with like spit cups everywhere. And I was like, whoo, this is this is different. I yeah, I changed majors at Cal Poly, but right after I graduated, there was a software company here in town called Mind Body in in San Luis Obispo, and it was like business management software for the wellness industry. So in two thousand ten, I started my career in software.
Aaryn Abbott: That was after you almost worked for the CIA.
Seth: Are you allowed to talk about that?
Molly Abbott: had a job offer. I had a job offer right out of Cal Poly with the CIA. And yeah, I had to go out to like Langley and I had to get a like lie detector test and it was it was all very weird. And so it was kind of cool though, because like they were doing a background check and stuff, and so I just stayed in slow. and then I got a note under my door one day that just said like, you know. No, thank you. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm not working.
Seth: Was it for real under your door?
Molly Abbott: Yeah, there was like a FedEx paper, like a pe just a piece of paper, and it was like a short thing.
Seth: Okay, okay. Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Still have it somewhere. But anyways, I still don't know why I didn't get the job, but I did have a job offer for about eight months.
Seth: And then yeah, more recently like well yeah, I wanna overlap the stories a little bit. So you guys met in college but stayed cl
Aaryn Abbott: Post yeah, post college, it was for me
Molly Abbott: That's yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: it was actually post grad school. and I had been down in LA two thousand eight to two thousand ten. I'd been and it was a weird time in the real estate development world and I had done some acquisitions consulting. I was getting paid on a commission basis when a deal closed that I had underwritten. made some great contacts and great relationships, but ultimately what brought me back to Slow was projects that me and Sean, my current business partner, had worked on when we were at Centex, had gotten bought from a private equity company. It's a long story, it's not important, but they were looking to finish some of those projects out. And they were looking for someone who had the right expertise and everything. so we got asked kind of late if we would be interested because Sean had started a small company while I was at grad school. And he basically called me up and said, Hey, why don't you help me do the you know business planning for this project? We're gonna submit an up, you know, a whole RFP response and and see what happens. So, you know, long story short, we ended up winning that work and between 2010 and 2014 we built 250 homes under that, what eventually became a very good relationship. so it was actually during during that window of time that Molly and I met. And it was, you know, through friends and all I I was play she was my coach on on our co co ed softball team.
Seth: Tell me more, Molly. What so yeah, like start talking about how because eventually I wanna get to where like your careers are overlapping and maybe Aaron, you're like, there's issues in the construction industry. And Molly, you're like, Well, let's think about how we could we're in Silicon Valley area, San Luis Obispo, the Central Coast, like maybe there's tech, like maybe just try to guide me through that path while you Molly.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, so we met and you know, I like I started working at Mind Body in twenty ten. Aaron and I started dating in twenty thirteen. And yeah, so I mean I had I had been in software and so there was just like things throughout you know, when he would tell he, you know, he would tell me about their on-prem servers, and I was like, What? What are you talking about? You know, and I would have to be like, Why are you VPNing into your like
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: to get a PDF, you know? Like just use Google Drive, you know? So there was like things like that throughout the throughout the process. But they're, you know, they're they're a pretty young company in the construction world. I talked to somebody today, a prospect today, that their company started in 1891, you know? So like
Seth: Wow, yeah.
Molly Abbott: Abbott Reed is a pretty young construction company, so they they wanna be like in you know, innovative and and stuff, which they are, they've got a really cool group over there. So
Seth: Well, tell me
Aaryn Abbott: Well
Seth: about that,
Aaryn Abbott: it.
Seth: Aaron, at the beginning, because like I started my career, I graduated Cal Poly after you, but really thought like they taught me how to draft with a pencil and with two D CAD and with three D CAD. Like I learned all three of those and I was like, that's a great education. I was so grateful to get all of that. But then I was like, 'cause I I think you should learn long division before you start using a calculator. You know what I mean? But I got launched into my career thinking like everything will be digitized right away. everything will be 3D and it will solve so many problems. And Molly, your story reminded me so much. One of my first jobs, maybe not first, but it was somewhere in there, was for a a G C and they put me in in in a trailer, but there was also like a bunch of storage units full of paper documents and they were like, Go in there and scan them all and I I scanned like a day's worth and I did this big spreadsheet calculation. We should outsource this because you're paying me this amount to do this much and it will take me this much time to do it all. It'll cost less to third party this. And they were like, We still want you to do it. And I was like, Well, I'm gonna start looking for another job then. so
Aaryn Abbott: Ha ha ha.
Seth: yeah, I don't know. I got lost in my thought train there, but yeah, what what kinds of stuff were you guys seeing in those initial Well and I'm I'm interested, like what were did you have date nights where it was just like you started talking about work and and this kind of came out of that? Or and what are those conversations
Aaryn Abbott: Well the o
Seth: like?
Aaryn Abbott: yeah, I mean the overlap didn't even there was still a number of twists and turns in the story before we really started working much closer.
Seth: Talk me through it, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: I mean there was Molly got her embryo, she We had a very like kind of group decision for her. Got an she got an opportunity to go down and work for At Folio, which is a Galita-based company. that she ended up meeting her future founders at at Folio. my company sometime around 2010-ish, we started using this new system that was all hip and cool out of Galita called or I guess Carpenteria, but Procore.
Seth: huh.
Aaryn Abbott: So we were we were an early Pro Core adopter. we did always sort of feel like we wanted to be on the cutting edge of technology. We're not a giant company. I mean, we're, you know, fifty million a year revenue. It's a you know, San Luis Obispo, you know, is not that big of a marketplace. but we wanted to be very tech forward. We always were like a Mac company, which is very unusual for construction. we like the the simpler, you know, more graphical user interface, more friendly. It was kind of that it was more fun to use, you know, like it just is a more enjoyable experience than what you experience on on the PC side of the world in in our opinions. and there was less risk from the, you know, viral. All that type of stuff, cybersecurity being the closed system that it is. But we, you know, so we did all that. We were early to the cloud, we were early to Procore, we were sort of an adoption partner of Procore, where we were helping to provide feedback early, very engaged in the product. we really did.
Molly Abbott: I also helped them I also helped them start adopting Slack too, because I was using Slack at work and I was like,
Seth: wow.
Molly Abbott: You guys gotta use this. And so they
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: use they use Slack probably one of the only construction companies for a while using Slack.
Seth: I bet.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, and that w I mean that was a little later.
Molly Abbott: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: but it was yeah, we were we we were always trying to be very digital first, but it is true we were VPN off of a you know, a Mac server that we set up and operated. and we did fall behind that curve a bit. And then yeah, well, I mean you should talk a little bit more about your experience. Going down to Atfolio, like that was a whole thing. Sha Molly and I were newlyweds and she was, you know, living four days a week in Santa Barbara.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, we just got married, and then I was like, I got this job in Santa Barbara. I'll see you later. So yeah, I got an apartment in in Santa Barbara and work was working at Folio, which is property management software. and so it's accounting based software. it was a great company. I learned a ton and there was just really good people at work there. And so that's where I met my co founders. but we were that's like kind of the first step of like, he's in. construction and real estate development. And then this is like property management and you know, investment management software. So like it's kind of started to merge there a little bit because building and selling apartments who may or may not be using Appfolio. So that was kind of like where our careers started to overlap a little bit.
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: But I think the really important change when domino started falling is your partner John basically was like, I need to do something entrepreneur. Like I'm entrepreneurial. I'm overwhelmed. I've got 400 engineers that work for me. I'm tired of being like an HR manager. I like programming too much. And basically what he told Molly, and I I should let her tell the story, but I've witnessed and you know had all these conversations and seen all these things. And it was Molly, you're the best product manager that we have at Outfolio. I enjoy working with you. We need to do something interesting. And I'm I'm willing to quit, but I don't know that that's the right thing. And so they had these long conversations with leadership at Outfolio that resulted in them getting an opportunity to do something interesting. So you should sort of explain that.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. So at Outfolio, John and I started working together on kind of like a little startup initiative within Outfolio for short term rentals. So like it property management, but just for like Airbnb and VRBOs. so we try to, we went down that venture for a bit and built a great team. And that was like pretty key into what what we're doing now. We built this great team within Outfolio.
Aaryn Abbott: And a great product.
Molly Abbott: yeah, and a great and a great product. Yeah. it was great 'cause it was kind of like a little experience of like starting our own thing and then it got c
Seth: Probably gave you a lot of like, I'd like to do it this way in the future and not that way. And yeah.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So
Seth: Yeah, what came after that?
Aaryn Abbott: In a and a taste of you know, I I like to describe Molly as she's extremely talented. She is great intuition.
Seth: You're biased, but
Aaryn Abbott: I'm very biased.
Molly Abbott: Really clearly very biased.
Aaryn Abbott: but I but I've seen I have also have a lot of inside knowledge and experience. But she sees a lot of things early. She and very much in the technology space. and great intuition, but Throughout her career, she's she she's not as outspoken as I would say the sort of modern corporate America sort of demands. Like you have to be like almost overly confident. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Seth: But thank you, Molly, for not being that 'cause I like it better without some of that. Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: Many many of us do, but I'm just saying, like, so sh her voice in in the setting of an atfolio was often underappreciated. And I think on this project. John, you know, having a lot of talent, liking to work with Molly, believing and seeing the same thing that I'm talking about. I think there was something there that was interesting and exciting, and Molly got a real seat at the table. And so I think there was there was a seed there that was like, we gotta explore this more. So anyway, that then this is the moment that Emma becomes a part of their three co-found founder partnership. They had all three of them had worked together previously and they got the o opportunity to go to Y Combinator. And in a very
Seth: Tell me about that, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: unique situation because it yeah, I mean you tell but it was under the the like no we don't know what we're doing category.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, we had just we had all three of us had just quit our jobs. And right at that same time, like ChatGPT, like the first version of Chat GPT had just come out. So like everyone's kind of like, what is it? Like AI, what is Chat GPT? It was like late 2022. when we quit our jobs in early 2023, we we applied to Y Combinator because a friend was like, Hey, you like you should apply. and they had for whatever reason are they Y Combinator was trying a thing where you didn't have to have an idea to apply, you just had to have a team. So we applied as a team and then we got we got in like I don't know how, but we got in. And so when we went we started going through Y Combinator and we we were exploring ideas, but we just we just kept landing on construction because We just felt like there's three forces of of like, you know, there's this new technology that's really good at read like reading PDFs and emails. Like L LMs are really good at that. There's like a generational wave too. Like younger people are coming up into the industry that like don't have tolerance for bad software. And you know,
Seth: Do you think?
Molly Abbott: people are retiring and so we just felt pretty strongly that it was like a really good industry for us to go into. Plus our background, all of us had worked on real estate, or real estate and property management, just like business management platform software. So yeah, so that's okay.
Seth: Yeah, it sounds like if I
Aaryn Abbott: Well there was pro
Seth: read wrong, sorry too. And sorry I'm interrup if I'm interrupting, but yeah, it it sounded like you started with kind of a narrow focus at Y combinator and it became a lot bigger, like, tell me about that. Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. So we yeah, so you know, it was 2023. So everyone was a co-pilot for something. And so we were the AI co-pilot for construction. it was really cool at the time. We plugged into all of your data so like we could connect to SharePoint and your email and Pro Core or Autodesk, and we aggregated it all. It's and you could ask questions and find the answers, which at the time was a very cool thing to do. Our John, who's our CTO, like was like the best at it's called RAG Retrieval Augmented
Seth: Yes.
Molly Abbott: Generation. we have like the best pipeline and construction's wild because it has so many PDFs and documents, just like the massive amount. So we had to use all these models and stuff. It was very cool and it demoed very well. But what we, you know, we've got users paying customers. We put it out there and people are like, yeah, like. I'll I'll use this all the time. And then no one used it. And we're like, huh, like something's going on here. But what that did is it got us to talk to a lot of construction companies, got our foot in the door, and we just kept hearing over and over again, like people were fed up with pricing of Procore, like it like old and clunky software. They're they're not treating us well. And, you know, we were like, we you know, we heard that enough times. And then Aaron's renewal was coming up, and everyone at his office was very pissed off. And they again, they were like early customers of Procore, a design partner, had been like customers like 12 or some 10 plus years. and so he's like, I want to invite your team to come talk to us. And so he they like brought our whole team in. And just said like this is what we want. We want you to build a platform. Like, yeah, yes, your AI search is cool. Have that be part of the product. and so that's when we did our major pivot is we had we had heard it enough times and then we had we knew we had people that were willing to work with us to build it out. Like
Seth: Yeah, tell me, Erin, like what were the okay, this is what's I mean, maybe we don't need to completely disparage Procore here, because it's true of probably all the software we built for construction, maybe hopefully other than constructible in the future as we continue. But like, tell me that list of like we can't deal with this anymore. Or in order to grow the way we want to grow and do the things we want to do, these legacy softwares aren't working for us in these ways. And then Bringing that to somebody like Molly and her team, like I bet it was refreshing to just have them be like, You tell us what you need and we're gonna dedicate, put our heads down and like actually customize this thing for you. talk about that conversation.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, I mean there's the the I I feel like while I skipped over like the dramatic part a little bit, but there was like a meeting where well I should back up. So Procore's fine. I don't want to disparage Procore.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: it's a good product, it's it's done a lot of good in the industry. In fact, when you go back into the you know 2010 timeframe, like it was a nightmare to collaborate between owners. And subcontractors and coordinate that information, plans, drawings, documents, invoicing everything. So they did solve a lot of problems. And the AI era created a new opportunity because they were solving a collaboration issue of a disjointed industry with a lot of disparate parties. And AI was now taking, hey, if you have really good structured data. You can find things fast, you can learn things fast, you can see trends, you can see issues around, you know, there was a lot, and Molly was working on that. And there had been a lot of conversations on that topic that that led to the point that Molly and her team were working in that area. But what really brought it all to a head is this annual renewal process with Procor. And part of it is the way that they price, part of it is the value that they had got they they had grown into extraction mode, right? There's all these software companies, they have, they just want to get product market fit, then they want to grow and they'll do anything to grow. And then they get to a certain size and it and they turn from growth mode into extraction mode. And you felt it as a customer. And
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: for three years in a row, our prices went up by 30%, no matter what we said. And on the third year that this conversation happened, it it got to the point where I was directly engaged. You know, like I had team members that would handle it the majority of the time. And then at this point it had just gotten bad enough that I'm talking to them and I go, guys, this we can't do this. And they literally said
Seth: Yeah, it reminds me of your one of the things you initially said about like we're a medium sized contractor. We're not huge. And it's like I think about smart firms doing a lot less revenue than you that are doing construction. And what are they doing? You know, it's so i I really see that tension between like, Hey, we're not HP or you know, DPR and all those other guys who this is a drop in the bucket for them, a software subscription, but for you it's a big deal, even
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah.
Seth: being medium sized. And there's a lot of smaller than you out there, you know.
Aaryn Abbott: For sure. And it's both, you know, even the big guys though, it's still a share of revenue. They might get a better
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: revenue rate than we get because of their scale, but as a rev share and the way that it's done and what they're asking us to do and odd trying to audit books and do all these it's it is a lot and you're like, Look, I'm trying to grow to a larger margin and you're trying to take the maximum amount of my revenue as you can. And it and it felt like like we were telling them and they just didn't hear us. They didn't care. And it and it felt like that. So that if I was to disparage at all, it was that from a customer standpoint, you felt very helpless. And you could see that like this trajectory doesn't work. And you're not like you're not interested in working with me to find a solution that might work for both of us. So it was very much like we got to a point that we're We were done. And we s we did get forced into signing another renewal. And I'd say forced, like obviously we had a choice, but we were
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: where, you know, we're halfway through seven projects of, you know, $10, $15 million projects. Like it would have been very complicated at the time. I had started looking at Autodesk as an alternative. They could do things more cost effective, but it's like a six month onboarding process that you're paying a consultant. fifteen thousand dollars and all this stuff to transfer your data and so this is the context and with all of that's happening and I have this phone conversation that I'm just like I'm I'm over it man. Like I so we signed the renewal but I'm like starting today like there's no chance well I have a year there's no chance I'm signing another extension. I don't even care if they come down on pricing next time. Like I'm done. And so it was at that moment that I said, Molly I need You and your partners, because we were using the product that they had built. Like we had constructible built into everything. We we gave them access to our email, to our Procore, to our Google Drive. Like we were we could ask questions and it and it felt disjointed. And so at the time, like we were piloting, but Molly's like, you guys don't use it that much.
Seth: Mm.
Aaryn Abbott: And it's like, well, it's it needs to be a part of. the system like Procore is currently our operating system in the field.
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: Like you spend all you spend eighty percent of your time in Procore. And so
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: when it's a separate system, it just feels weird and awkward and you forget. So anyway, so I I tell Maul like I'm like, I need you and your partner. Like you guys just come to slow. Make it make it a half day. But we we're gonna have a meeting. Like I've got my executive team, my operations manager, my building manager, my business partner. Our CFO, like we're all gonna be there. I need you and your business partners to be there. We got them in and we said, look, we're done with Procore. And we can go and find an alternative, but you guys have something that's interesting. It's not quite right. And this is what we really need. And so we had gone through and we had basically said, like, for us to change to a different horse in a year, like we need this functionality. This is the This is the actual fun functionality that in ProPore we rely on. There's other stuff, there's nice to have, there's this could be better, but like this is the core functionality we need. And I looked at them and I'm like, I know you got like you are extremely talented, John. I've seen what you can do. Like, I know you could do this. And Molly and Emma both have a vast amount of experience at product development and everything. So I was just like,
Seth: Yeah, I bet that did like feed Molly, you're just like this is how we wanna do help them with adoption. And I bet it gave you a really good kind of path to just 'cause you could be client focused. You know, you're listening to your husband about like what it's it seems like a great situation. Go ahead.
Molly Abbott: Yeah. It they they say in like the software world, like when you pivot it should feel like a warm hug. And it like it did. It like we're like, this feels right. Like we've built these things before.
Seth: I'm sure there was I I'm also interested in like the how that actually worked out and then if it was hard for you guys to pivot and because like you're thinking of it one way and he's saying, No, we don't need that. I'm sure there was conflict, but I bet you learned out of that too. But yeah, talk about like it's been three year or over three years now, right? Like it it's evolved
Molly Abbott: Yeah.
Seth: a lot and like has Aaron been a big part of that and other clients, do they Are your clients shaping your product and tell me about it? Yeah.
Molly Abbott: Tot totally. Huge, huge part. Aaron's a huge part. So like the first year, we really just like went heads down, like we we were like, Okay, we think there's more than just Aaron's company that wants this. So we need to go out and
Aaryn Abbott: Can we
Molly Abbott: find them.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, can we just I wanna I sort of wanna finish the punchline and then go
Seth: Please.
Aaryn Abbott: into this part of the story because there was a moment in that meeting where I basically looked at John and I'm like, John, you can build all this, right? Like we had just gone through the
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: and he looked at me and he's like, Yeah, totally. And John's funny because he's very like you give him a direction and he can sprint, you know, but he needs a direction.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: So I looked at him, I'm like, I know you could do this. You could do this, right? And he looks at me, he's Yeah, I could totally do this. And so there was like a moment when that conversation felt very much like, amazing, they're gonna do this. Like
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: it felt great on both sides, but as a good product manager should, there was like then a pause moment where they went, Okay, if we are gonna do this, there's a market validation that we actually have to go do. It can't just be Abbott Reed's willing to, you know, to do this, we need to know that there's a real need out there. And so you guys then went and talked to many dozens of companies.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, we yeah, we we were like, okay, we get we need Abbott Reed and we need like 10 other companies to like work with us. So we like cold called people and cold outreach and we found 10 companies that would meet with us like once every two to three weeks and help us build things out. So we just we worked with them and they're like we're like, what's the core of what you need? And you know, just we just talked to a lot of customers. We go, I'd go awkwardly, go hang out. In Aaron's office and be like, what are you doing here? What is this? What does this mean? How are you set setting this to middle? And so just going, you know, just really just doing tons of user research and having goals of like features we need to build. It was actually a really fun phase in our startup life because we were had to be so focused because we knew the renewal was in one year. So we're like, we have one year to build a pro core replacement for them. And we kind of said, like, This is great, like because AI is still there, right? So we're like, how does this how does AI fit in with all this? And the story we kept saying was like, this is actually great because we get to build the house for AI to live in. And so while we're building the house, like AI is just gonna grow and mature. And so what in the house is built, then then we'll be ready to have all these AI features. So we really started building it with that in mind too, which is kind of cool because now we're at a point now where we We do have all these cool like AI features and stuff. But f at that time it was like we are gonna build a way to d create something and edit something and delete something and send a submittal and send an RFI and so it was like we were hyper focused, which was fun.
Aaryn Abbott: But yeah, this was very much this was like Molly described this several times to me as like we're now in level three. You know, she had level one was like, we're gonna do construction
Seth: Yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: and we're doing all this market validation and construction. Level two, they're like, okay, we've got, we're gonna do this like AI intelligence layer of trying to solve the documentation. and coordination factor with a layer of intelligence. And then there was this level three of okay, no, we still want vertical structured software. Like everyone needs that help because structured data is the most important layer. And it's just better to provide that intelligence layer if you actually are are the like builder of the structured data layer. And that was like that that design partner phase where, you know, they it it was a big push to go and secure, you know, make their pitch and get people who were willing to dedicate time and energy. And it wasn't just us. And
Seth: Mm.
Aaryn Abbott: it turned out there was quite a few companies like ours that were in the same boat.
Seth: Yeah, you and I, Molly, we kind of in the call previous to this, we we connected on like the whole when I'm trying to talk to people about AI and in construction, they imagine I'm saying, like, we'll throw it in a chat bot and hope that what comes out is great. And there's so much more to it. We talked about deterministic workflows and how you actually get there. And a lot of it is creating that backbone that you're talking about now, you know? But wasn't that a hard thing to pitch to even those early ten who maybe are already early adopters? But tell me what that was like. Weren't they all very skeptical and how has your pitch changed over time to address it?
Molly Abbott: Yeah, I mean, you kinda you know, in the startup world they kind of say like you you find the desperate ones first and so you you called enough people and there was the there was the desperate one that like just had their renewal, they they're forward thinking too, like, hey, we know we know AI is gonna play a big deal in here, so like we'll we'll dedicate some time to help you. But yeah, I mean it was a it was a grind. Like it was it was awkward too, because we're like trying to sell a product that wasn't quite on the market yet, you know, and to see if there was any interest and and stuff. So yeah, that
Aaryn Abbott: And it helped that you guys had the at Folio resume because they were very accomplished in vertical software already, that they had the Y combinator, you know, all there's a de not everyone in construction, but there's a decent number of people who are like, Yes, I know what that is. with the equity behind them. So it was like, Hey, we're from a construction standpoint, we're trying to figure out what this means. The world's changing, everyone, you know. you listen to any podcast or read any news article and it's like if you're not engaged in AI, you're behind. So you're like, I don't even know what the you know, so why not figure that out in partnership with somebody who's great at technology?
Seth: Makes a lot sense. I kind of want to throw a curveball. It will I mean we can dive back into the same things we've been talking about, but I'm just it made me think like I maybe both of you could answer and maybe you'll have similar answers. But what do you guys think is the most the best source of job site data that like you really trust now? Is it are we going to a place where it's all gonna come from a video camera on site? Is it daily logs or still like I keep thinking? I I don't know, I I probably haven't told you guys this, maybe Molly, but I've told my podcast a lot. I started my career in forensic construction management. So working for attorneys and the one thing I realized during those like six or seven years is handwritten stuff is more reliable than spreadsheets. And like my favorite thing was looking at photos and daily logs to figure out what actually happened on a construction project. And I wonder how that will change and also how you guys Maybe Molly on the like, we want to prioritize this kind of data 'cause we trust it in our system and maybe from Aaron's perspective it's a little different. Like you know the hierarchy of what to trust and what not to trust.
Molly Abbott: yeah, I
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: can go I can go first. Yeah. I like the best data is like the day the well, like I'll use a phrase like the best PPE is the PPE that you wear, right? and so it's just I kind of think it's the same thing with data. Like if if it's really hard to fill out a daily log or stuff isn't working, like you'd rather you you need that data. And so you just have to make it extremely easy. For someone on site where it's loud and messy and dirty and the internet's not working to capture
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: data. And so as long as you make that easy for somebody to do, that like that's the best way that it's gonna go. So like we we often say like, we don't wanna change anyone's habits. We just kind of like wanna insert ourselves into those habits that they already have established and just make it way easier. And then you could teach somebody who's not gonna be willing to put in the time. to do things a little differently or a little easier as they're like already establishing that habit. So I you know, there's there's certain things that make you know, with with AI now, you know, it c it can take unstructured data and put it in a structured way. So as long as we are doing that at a r at a at a good rate, as long as we are doing a good job at that and displaying the data, I think, I think that's like hugely important, like just capturing phone calls, you know, no one wants to take a
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Molly Abbott: phone call and then take a note. It's just like if it's just automatically doing that, like how amazing is that?
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Molly Abbott: every there's so many things in emails are that are outside of your system, like capturing that. So I and I do think like photos and daily logs and viewing drawings are like the heaviest use features in our software.
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: so yeah yeah. But we we really focus on mid-sized general small to mid sized general contractors. So they're not setting up these like super expensive, like on site cameras that are filming the whole time. So that's
Seth: Sure.
Molly Abbott: why that's why we have to make it easy for the the human out there to capture date like
Seth: I like the PPE analogy too though, because it does make me think maybe Aaron can speak to this, but like you need the foreman or the superintendent or in some cases even the laborers information. And how do we get them to give it to us and remove friction and barriers? Aaron, have you learned a lot about that? Like how you get the best data from a construction project? Is it by engaging those people in the field as best as possible? Am I wrong?
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, no, and and I think I think all of those things are true. So the daily logs I still think to this day is one of the best tools. Seth, I agree with your assessment of when you're looking back and trying to understand what what happens. Like the daily log is is not just the information, it's not just the photos, it's not just who's there, but it's also the judgment that the
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Aaryn Abbott: superintendent has that they're providing on a daily basis to the project. So that reflection of that judgment so important. And if Molly's team makes it incredibly easy to get that judgment communicated and captured, which they have, it becomes an incredibly useful. And then it's Also the meetings. So you have subcontractor meetings where you are engaging the workforce and the foreman. You have the ownership OA and C meetings where you're engaging the consultants and the owner. Capturing that information is so important, that meeting minute and the those communications. So I think both of those things have made it really important. And then it's surfacing the right information in the right ways at the right time. The plan thing that Molly talked about, One of the things that's so great is, you know, Procore got a has a good template for plan management. Constructible took that, expanded on it, and added a layer of intelligence to it. So something like a transformation we were going through at the same time that Molly's team was developing the product was getting far more engaged in a pre-construction process and a history and knowledge of what changed over time with the most important design. Design decisions all the way from before we even had a permit. So we would be reviewing plans, somebody's marking stuff up, redlining something, circling issues, describing more detail thing, you know, and you give all this feedback, you hand that over to the architect or the civil or whoever, and then that information's gone. And whether or not they actually captured it, and if they captured it, and then we find it again three months later, six months later, one, we get stuck in the field. That history is so important. And with the product that Molly envisioned and that we now rely on, we can make that digital markup very fast, very cleanly, in a collaborative way, that everyone's seeing the same thing, that history is preserved. And then as we get new versions of the plans layered on top of, we can go back and compare and see what if that change actually got captured. what the context around that change was, what the conversation, and that all of that knowledge is now accessible. And so, and then you have the layer of AI and it makes it easier to surface the things. So as long as it's all there and it's structured, then it's like, hey, what happened with this? And it goes, well, this markup happened and then this got changed into revision one. And then when you publish that, you know, we ended up with this RFI and we got this final answer. You know, so it that's that's been incredibly useful.
Seth: Do you guys think like I think a lot about who should we be building tech for in the construction industry? And my latest kind of hypothesis or thesis is kinda y Molly, you're like confirming this for me because I feel like you've said multiple times it's about if people will use it and make it easy to use. And like without yeah, adoption, it's it's kind of worthless. But I just I kinda lost my train of thought there. I I wonder who like is it you guys are mainly targeting general contractors or that level. I think a lot about OAC meetings and I'm like the owner, the architect, and the contractor might and then there's subcontractors and vendors and all kinds of other we might all develop our own little AI helper and system and then all of our individual systems will combat just the way they used to, but they'll be even better at fighting each other. So I just wonder if there's a way to like make tech for the project and the community that we're building in. And I bet you guys are smiling at me now. I know you want to do that too. Like, what is your approach to how do we actually serve the projects and the communities and not just the GC or the sub?
Molly Abbott: Yeah, I love that. I spent a lot of time thinking about this, and this is something I d like desperately want to solve. And I think I think our technology, we've built it in a way that will solve this. but yeah, it's a it's like it's about the project, you know, and so the project is the source of truth. And ca there, you know, we're there's so many different scenarios where the you know it's like really sad if all these people are using different systems, but you have to use the GC system. But then you have to copy those all those PDFs into your system. And it's just like such a waste of time, you know? And it should be like, hey, the project is the source of truth. And so everyone should have their own their own data if they're part of this project. So we we we have lots of thoughts on that. and I do think in the near future there will be an easy way to be like, hey, if you're part of this project, all of this data is yours as well. And it's easy to get
Seth: Yeah.
Molly Abbott: that data. And Potentially use that for your own you know, your own system as well.
Seth: And it feels like low hanging fruit for AI to provide value in that case. You know, link this to this and help us there's just a mess of connections that I think AI can help us untangle.
Molly Abbott: Yeah, I mean that's why you know the constructible has an MCP and all that means is now your your Cloud agent or your Chat GPT agent can talk to constructible, which how wonderful is that is if you know if you're using a different system you can connect to that. So you just don't have to be technical anymore to do these integrations. You just have to like log in, which is kind of cool. So I love
Seth: Very
Molly Abbott: that evolution. and so I that will I think that will just start that will just ex expand and be more accessible. So yeah, I I really do think the source of truth should be the project versus like whoever bought the software.
Seth: We're gonna have to do this.
Aaryn Abbott: Well and I
Seth: Yeah, go ahead, Erin. Sorry.
Aaryn Abbott: well, I just wanted to throw out there that I think one of the really important differences that I think constructible is attempting to deliver versus the experience with just the other one I have the most experience with, which is Procore. And like I had this really interesting insight from an architect that we work with a lot, that he says, Well, is this a Procore job or not? And I was like, well, yeah, this is a pro core job. And he goes, okay. And I go, well, what does that mean? And he goes, Well, I'm just trying to figure out how much contract admin there's going to be. Because when it's a pro core job, you lower the barrier to submitting an RFI, therefore the number of RFIs is increased, right? And I was like, that's a really interesting insight. That you make it easier to do something, it's going to get done more. But that is with a very clear lens of. We're all playing the game of passing the liability. And everyone's doing and this I think is related to your question of whose software system, what is their objective? And if the objective is I don't, I'm gonna do my part to not carry liability, that is an objective. And if you maximize it, it's not adding efficiency, it's not improving the project, but it might be protecting you as a as a business. On the other hand,
Seth: Hopefully not long, long term, you know. Hopefully that becomes your reputation and people stop wanting to work with you. But yeah.
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, but but I mean there is an element of that in all of these interactions. But I think on the other end of that is you actually have a culture, a company, partners, owners, people, consultants, and a and a software technology service that were like, actually the goal is to solve the problem. Like we actually want to get the right design, we want to save the owner money, we wanna Eliminate liability for everybody. We want to make fewer mistakes. We want to have the right answer earlier in the process so that there's not missed coordination, delayed schedules, rework costs. And I do think that like that's happening right now. I've seen it being now using constructible. Like I can honestly say that I the trend for me is getting better. There's more trust, there's better collaboration. more proactive proactivity and and I think that's like a really important difference. It's not about whose liability, it's about how are we performing at a higher level more proactively.
Seth: And like, yeah, at the end of the day, if you're building residential buildings, we want better places for people at any income level to live. You know, like that's what we want. Or we want better places for our kids to learn in schools and better hospitals for our aging parents to get their lives saved in. that's
Aaryn Abbott: Exactly.
Seth: what we actually want as a construction industry. And that's why I think it's a cool industry to be in. And it shouldn't get But I think tech can help us in ways that I hope you guys are a part of. I'm excited about it. I want to do a follow up because I really do only have three more minutes, but I could talk to you guys for hours. So we'll have to do another one. And thanks again for coming on. And I will point everyone to constructable.ai, correct? and reach out definitely to Molly on LinkedIn if you would want Aaron as well. I think they're both there. thanks guys.
Molly Abbott: Thanks, Set. This
Aaryn Abbott: Yeah, thank you, Sad.
Molly Abbott: is awesome.
