Ep 156, Addressing Conflicts Early

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:18.160
Music.
00:00:21.507 --> 00:00:26.047
Welcome to Conflict Managed. I'm your host, Merry Brown. This week on Conflict
00:00:26.047 --> 00:00:27.467
Managed, we welcome Jennifer Hall.
00:00:27.767 --> 00:00:31.187
With over 18 years of growth and experience at the University of Louisville,
00:00:31.687 --> 00:00:35.567
Jennifer Hall serves as the Ombuds and Director of Strategic Engagement for
00:00:35.567 --> 00:00:40.307
the Graduate Medical Education Office, where she supports over 800 medical residents and fellows.
00:00:40.867 --> 00:00:43.827
Jennifer's background, shaped by her upbringing in a military family,
00:00:43.827 --> 00:00:46.647
provides a unique perspective on leadership and resilience.
00:00:46.927 --> 00:00:50.507
She holds an undergraduate degree in liberal studies with a minor in psychology,
00:00:50.867 --> 00:00:54.467
a graduate degree in higher education administration, and graduate certificates
00:00:54.467 --> 00:00:58.207
in health professions, education, and human resources leadership.
00:00:58.687 --> 00:01:02.387
Guided by the principles of empathy, integrity, and continuous learning,
00:01:02.847 --> 00:01:06.127
Jennifer is passionate about helping young professionals develop their leadership
00:01:06.127 --> 00:01:08.087
brands with intention and purpose.
00:01:08.347 --> 00:01:13.567
She also coaches others to cultivate meaning relationships that help drive success and career growth.
00:01:13.827 --> 00:01:17.367
Jennifer is a member of the International Ombuds Association and enjoys participating
00:01:17.367 --> 00:01:22.047
in various local, national, and international conferences on leadership and medical education.
00:01:22.467 --> 00:01:26.787
Outside of work, she enjoys volunteering at her children's schools and providing
00:01:26.787 --> 00:01:30.587
guidance to others navigating the challenges of caregiving, drawing on her own
00:01:30.587 --> 00:01:34.447
experience caring for her mother who lived with Alzheimer's for 13 years.
00:01:34.847 --> 00:01:37.867
Good morning, Jennifer, and welcome to Conflict Managed. Hi,
00:01:37.947 --> 00:01:42.347
good morning, Merry. Thanks for having me. I'm so delighted to be talking with you today.
00:01:42.927 --> 00:01:47.927
And the work that you're doing is absolutely wonderful in the peacemaking space and being an ombuds.
00:01:48.107 --> 00:01:51.687
But before we get to what you're doing right now, I'd like to hear about the
00:01:51.687 --> 00:01:54.167
first job you ever had as a young person.
00:01:54.925 --> 00:01:59.665
Yeah, so I put a lot of thought into this question because it's,
00:01:59.725 --> 00:02:06.305
I feel like a little bit deeper than some of your other guests have also been like, well, is it?
00:02:06.405 --> 00:02:09.285
And I thought, well, I definitely was a driven child.
00:02:09.545 --> 00:02:15.445
And so at 12 years old, I went to the Red Cross and got certified so I could babysit.
00:02:15.605 --> 00:02:19.165
And I spent a lot of time doing that for a lot of neighbors.
00:02:19.445 --> 00:02:24.185
We grew up on a military post. And so lots of military families needing babysitters,
00:02:24.365 --> 00:02:28.665
right? and was pretty successful for a 12-year-old, bought my first television
00:02:28.665 --> 00:02:31.285
on my own and saved up for my first car.
00:02:31.385 --> 00:02:37.585
But actually, I really do identify very much of sort of the virtues that you
00:02:37.585 --> 00:02:44.325
get for the workplace from my background as being a military child, quite honestly.
00:02:44.565 --> 00:02:47.405
And so I want to sort of identify that to some degree.
00:02:47.405 --> 00:02:52.245
I feel like when you are a family of a of a person in the military,
00:02:52.245 --> 00:02:57.865
you are representing as almost a unit or a business unit to some degree so that
00:02:57.865 --> 00:03:01.065
they are networking effectively.
00:03:01.185 --> 00:03:09.625
And you learn about making sacrifices for a career really early on.
00:03:09.625 --> 00:03:15.065
And you learn about knowing that you have to make hard decisions and choices.
00:03:15.685 --> 00:03:20.605
I can think of one of being elected on student government as a child,
00:03:20.885 --> 00:03:23.925
making my dad promise we aren't going to move so that I can run,
00:03:24.005 --> 00:03:26.945
and then finding out a week later that we were moving.
00:03:28.425 --> 00:03:32.465
So I do feel like I identify that to some degree, for sure.
00:03:33.305 --> 00:03:38.405
It's very interesting to think about, you know, our families and what's going
00:03:38.405 --> 00:03:42.445
on within our families and how that really colors what we think about work,
00:03:42.665 --> 00:03:46.585
the importance of work, And as you said, these different aspects of self-sacrifice,
00:03:47.285 --> 00:03:49.965
of being a team player, being a unified,
00:03:50.911 --> 00:03:55.571
So you're raising your own children now. And when, so you think about our families
00:03:55.571 --> 00:04:00.011
of origin is really coloring how we go into outside work.
00:04:00.231 --> 00:04:07.651
How do you think that experience of your children is different from your experience growing up?
00:04:08.451 --> 00:04:13.491
So definitely different in that my husband or myself, neither one of us is in
00:04:13.491 --> 00:04:16.451
a field that we have to relocate frequently.
00:04:16.751 --> 00:04:21.691
As we became a unit, as we built our relationship, we agreed with one another
00:04:21.691 --> 00:04:28.591
that we wanted to be a family that prioritized our family to a balanced place.
00:04:28.771 --> 00:04:31.411
Because like I said, back as a 12-year-old, I was very driven.
00:04:31.491 --> 00:04:36.351
And I will say I probably am still driven to some degree.
00:04:36.551 --> 00:04:42.611
But I also knew that while I want my children to be challenged and to
00:04:42.851 --> 00:04:50.011
face a very diversity of experiences, I don't, I didn't want them to have the
00:04:50.011 --> 00:04:56.051
experience that I had where it was, you know, we moved 17 times in 17 years on average, basically.
00:04:56.051 --> 00:04:59.511
So I might stay someplace for six months and then we might stay someplace for
00:04:59.511 --> 00:05:01.451
three years, but then as you average it out.
00:05:01.791 --> 00:05:04.571
And so I wanted them to have a little more stability with that.
00:05:04.871 --> 00:05:12.091
But I also try to teach my children, you know, put them in environments where
00:05:12.091 --> 00:05:15.151
they're challenged to meet new people, to establish new relationships.
00:05:15.371 --> 00:05:19.511
And so I was never a mom who coordinated with other moms about summer camps
00:05:19.511 --> 00:05:21.131
or after-school activities.
00:05:21.351 --> 00:05:26.871
My kids always just go to the camp and find new friends, you know,
00:05:26.951 --> 00:05:29.011
and I'm really proud that they're able to do that.
00:05:29.451 --> 00:05:32.871
It is so interesting when we think about the environment in which we're raised.
00:05:33.011 --> 00:05:36.371
And of course, siblings can just go in very different directions
00:05:36.371 --> 00:05:39.851
right so you as a 12 year old maybe
00:05:39.851 --> 00:05:42.731
independent or completely tied however this works
00:05:42.731 --> 00:05:45.811
to your upbringing but but being driven right to
00:05:45.811 --> 00:05:52.971
to want to go out and to not only babysit but get certified and and and babysit
00:05:52.971 --> 00:05:58.411
and and you see you still have that drive to today so how did that translate
00:05:58.411 --> 00:06:02.411
getting a job you know like when you're a little bit older in high school 16
00:06:02.411 --> 00:06:04.811
17 what were those kind of first jobs like?
00:06:05.621 --> 00:06:12.941
So I very much looked for lots of experience. I almost was looking into it like
00:06:12.941 --> 00:06:13.981
process of elimination.
00:06:14.141 --> 00:06:17.601
What do I want to be when I grow up? And so I had a lot of jobs.
00:06:17.741 --> 00:06:24.161
My very, very first official, I'm an employee and will get taxed for this, right?
00:06:24.381 --> 00:06:27.581
Job was as a hostess at a local restaurant.
00:06:27.841 --> 00:06:31.481
And then I was only there, I want to say, for about six months.
00:06:31.481 --> 00:06:37.681
And I moved on to being a receptionist for a car dealership and working as a
00:06:37.681 --> 00:06:44.081
teller at a bank. I also was a delivery person at an auto body paint shop.
00:06:45.101 --> 00:06:49.921
I just had a lot of, I worked for a hospital for a while and outpatient registration
00:06:49.921 --> 00:06:51.501
and things of that nature.
00:06:51.801 --> 00:06:57.641
I was just really trying to discover the world and what kind of things I was
00:06:57.641 --> 00:07:00.101
interested in. And it was a lot of fun.
00:07:00.641 --> 00:07:05.281
That is so interesting. I mean, I contrast with myself and my first taxpaying
00:07:05.281 --> 00:07:11.301
job I got when I was in eighth grade and I was being paid below minimum wage.
00:07:11.481 --> 00:07:14.361
I kind of got this little job because I wanted to pay for a summer camp.
00:07:14.621 --> 00:07:17.441
And then I kept that job until I went away to college.
00:07:18.921 --> 00:07:23.161
But there's this interesting spirit you have of exploring and,
00:07:23.181 --> 00:07:25.361
you know, why are some kids driven like that?
00:07:25.441 --> 00:07:29.361
And why are some kids saying, I want to rack up experience rather than I just
00:07:29.361 --> 00:07:34.261
want to pay for my car or this experience or whatever it is that I might want.
00:07:34.561 --> 00:07:37.021
So you went to college. And what did you major in?
00:07:37.579 --> 00:07:41.839
I got a bachelor's degree in liberal studies with a minor in psychology.
00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:45.959
And for a lot of people who didn't get a degree in liberal studies,
00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:51.579
what it meant for me in my undergrad experience was I couldn't decide on one thing.
00:07:51.719 --> 00:07:57.819
I love all sorts of things. And so that degree allowed me to put together basically
00:07:57.819 --> 00:08:04.679
a proposal for the associate dean of three to five focuses of things I was interested in.
00:08:04.819 --> 00:08:09.339
So what I landed on were psychology, education, and communication,
00:08:09.339 --> 00:08:15.259
which I found, strangely enough, to really serve me well in the career that I am doing currently.
00:08:16.179 --> 00:08:19.059
Learning about understanding sort
00:08:19.059 --> 00:08:21.899
of where people are coming from emotionally with that psychology side
00:08:21.899 --> 00:08:24.899
of things and some formal concepts that I
00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:28.019
can think through as I'm thinking processes that
00:08:28.019 --> 00:08:31.419
we can implement to improve things communication which
00:08:31.419 --> 00:08:34.619
is such a major part of a healthy
00:08:34.619 --> 00:08:41.219
relationship in any form professional or personal and and the education piece
00:08:41.219 --> 00:08:47.339
because a lot of times you really have to implement some formal education because
00:08:47.339 --> 00:08:52.119
depending on the background of your constituents, for me,
00:08:52.539 --> 00:08:59.079
working with MDs, DOs, medical practitioners, they went to school so focused
00:08:59.079 --> 00:09:00.959
on getting to a certain point.
00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:06.099
They weren't given opportunities to go into a teaching class or communication
00:09:06.099 --> 00:09:09.079
class or marketing or those types of things.
00:09:09.239 --> 00:09:13.779
So it often, they're very open to being educated about that.
00:09:13.899 --> 00:09:16.059
And I'm lucky to have some background in that as well.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:21.379
I love to sing the praises of humanities because I think that a lot of parents
00:09:21.379 --> 00:09:25.199
or grandparents, or when we think about what is a college education worth,
00:09:25.199 --> 00:09:29.859
what should somebody be doing, we want our people to be gainfully employed, right?
00:09:29.899 --> 00:09:33.959
We want them to, we're going to spend, it's a lot of money and time for the,
00:09:34.079 --> 00:09:38.479
usually for many times for families, but for the child, the young adult who's
00:09:38.479 --> 00:09:39.679
taking out these loans or whatever.
00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:43.279
And then what are they going to get on the other side. And when you say something
00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.779
like humanities, or for me, philosophy, it can be very scary.
00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:51.319
What the heck is that? I know what it means to be an engineer or to be a nurse
00:09:51.319 --> 00:09:54.459
or to be a physical therapist or to be an accountant.
00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.239
These are these very, you know, tangible, we can get our mind around.
00:09:58.699 --> 00:10:02.299
And yet I would want to say that both you and I are gainfully employed,
00:10:02.439 --> 00:10:07.699
we're doing just fine, that these skills that the humanities give you are the
00:10:07.699 --> 00:10:09.459
skills of the 21st century and beyond,
00:10:09.459 --> 00:10:12.339
right so if we want transferable skills
00:10:12.339 --> 00:10:16.039
if we want to be agile we want to be able to learn new
00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:20.399
technologies and all the people skills and everything else the imagination and
00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:26.319
the critical thinking an ode to humanities it's it is not a wasted degree it's
00:10:26.319 --> 00:10:31.779
actually very practical in the in the thought economy in the kind of economy
00:10:31.779 --> 00:10:34.059
that we have today which is just filled with change.
00:10:34.959 --> 00:10:38.099
Definitely. I would definitely support what you just said.
00:10:38.599 --> 00:10:42.939
And like I said, I'm working in a field where they did not have the opportunities
00:10:42.939 --> 00:10:45.979
to learn formally in that way.
00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:51.219
And so they have to come with an intuitive nature for those types of things.
00:10:51.479 --> 00:10:57.039
Otherwise, they can be amazing doctors and struggle with a lot of things that
00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:02.619
people expect them as doctors to be. Yeah, I mean, unfairly,
00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:05.559
I think, in particular in the medical profession with doctors.
00:11:06.059 --> 00:11:11.519
They are highly praised in our society, and that is rightly so because they do so much good.
00:11:11.659 --> 00:11:16.459
But then we expect them to have all these other sorts of expertise when actually
00:11:16.459 --> 00:11:20.079
to be so good at what they're doing, they have narrowly focused.
00:11:20.579 --> 00:11:25.399
And it is, I think, an extra unfair burden to expect them to be able to be good
00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:29.739
at everything, to know everything when they know how to maybe fix a knee or
00:11:29.739 --> 00:11:32.479
anesthesiology or whatever it might be.
00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:38.379
Right. I mean, drill down. For many years in my office, I worked with the House
00:11:38.379 --> 00:11:42.279
Stop Council, which is a student government sort of entity for these residents and fellows.
00:11:42.499 --> 00:11:48.219
And I had a House Stop Council president who started out in ophthalmology and
00:11:48.219 --> 00:11:51.319
then transitioned to emergency medicine in the middle of his journey.
00:11:51.319 --> 00:11:55.219
And I was close with him and fascinated by the change.
00:11:55.319 --> 00:11:59.039
And I said, tell me about what motivated you to do that?
00:11:59.079 --> 00:12:02.579
And he said, I really wanted to learn about a lot of things.
00:12:02.619 --> 00:12:05.759
And I was just learning a lot about the eye, right?
00:12:05.939 --> 00:12:14.059
And so, you know, and that person, I would say, has an innate personality that
00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:17.099
wants to be a lifelong learner and be sort of well,
00:12:17.619 --> 00:12:22.159
you know, wide knowledge, set of knowledge, It does a lot of wellness work now.
00:12:22.379 --> 00:12:26.519
So their personality makes a lot of sense for them to have transitioned into
00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.239
more of a broad spectrum.
00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:35.439
But it is a challenge, definitely, in the field that I have spent many years
00:12:35.439 --> 00:12:37.139
trying to help them with.
00:12:37.339 --> 00:12:42.179
I did a workshop on residents as teachers, and we did one on residents in business.
00:12:42.479 --> 00:12:46.699
And so these are the things we can offer outside of their clinical setting that
00:12:46.699 --> 00:12:50.639
provide some extra things for them. Oh, that's wonderful, right?
00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:51.839
Taking care of the whole person.
00:12:52.319 --> 00:12:57.319
Independent of the kind of profession we're in, it's lovely to have those opportunities.
00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:01.199
So when you graduated from college, what was your first job out of college?
00:13:02.075 --> 00:13:06.175
Well, so out of college, immediately I went into a home health care company
00:13:06.175 --> 00:13:12.275
and I was in their accounts receivable office and specifically lab focused.
00:13:12.275 --> 00:13:17.475
And I learned a lot from that job and I learned a lot about myself in that job.
00:13:17.935 --> 00:13:26.575
Really, what I found is my skill set came around seeing patterns and large scale issues.
00:13:26.575 --> 00:13:32.135
So one thing in particular was that as they had set up this healthcare company,
00:13:32.275 --> 00:13:33.675
it was growing really quickly.
00:13:34.115 --> 00:13:37.235
And they had, you have what's called a CPT code.
00:13:37.395 --> 00:13:42.895
You attach it to, let's say, a vena puncture or, you know, actual sticking the
00:13:42.895 --> 00:13:46.135
needle in to draw the blood or things of that nature.
00:13:46.135 --> 00:13:53.235
And what I realized was whoever had initially set up the codes for that procedure
00:13:53.235 --> 00:13:56.655
had set it up with internally the wrong code.
00:13:56.655 --> 00:14:03.895
And so I was noticing that these $5 charges on every account that I went to were never paid.
00:14:04.175 --> 00:14:10.155
My job was to go into an account and to figure out what was wrong in that account
00:14:10.155 --> 00:14:13.295
for whatever health insurance company to pay it.
00:14:13.335 --> 00:14:17.535
Was there information missing? Was it not coded right?
00:14:17.835 --> 00:14:23.515
You know, so I started out just looking at Susie Smith and what was going on with Susie Smith.
00:14:23.715 --> 00:14:28.615
And then I realized that 5,000 people hadn't had that $5 charge paid ever in
00:14:28.615 --> 00:14:31.215
the history of the whole company.
00:14:31.495 --> 00:14:36.135
You know, it might be more than 5,000. And so I went to my supervisor and I
00:14:36.135 --> 00:14:37.875
talked about it with them.
00:14:37.995 --> 00:14:42.415
They took it up the chain and we realized we had to drop all of these charges
00:14:42.415 --> 00:14:44.035
with the right code on it.
00:14:44.035 --> 00:14:49.295
And and so it was it was really eye opening for me how much of an impact I could
00:14:49.295 --> 00:14:55.215
make in a bigger way, even though I was a cog, you know, in the wheel and I
00:14:55.215 --> 00:14:57.535
was working on this one specific piece.
00:14:58.135 --> 00:15:05.275
But it was still within my capacity to see beyond my piece and bring value to
00:15:05.275 --> 00:15:07.975
the team, bring value to the to the organization.
00:15:08.335 --> 00:15:11.915
So it was it was a great first job.
00:15:12.832 --> 00:15:18.132
And I really enjoyed it. But ultimately, that company actually ended up shutting
00:15:18.132 --> 00:15:21.232
down within about a year of me working there.
00:15:21.392 --> 00:15:26.932
In that time, I had become a supervisor in the company. And sometimes I wonder
00:15:26.932 --> 00:15:29.872
what would have happened if they hadn't shut down.
00:15:30.932 --> 00:15:33.672
Because it was very it was very a big
00:15:33.672 --> 00:15:37.232
opportunity for me and I really think it was there were
00:15:37.232 --> 00:15:41.052
a lot of things that went into why it had to shut down but it there was it would
00:15:41.052 --> 00:15:44.572
have been a wonderful career potentially and where would I have ended up so
00:15:44.572 --> 00:15:49.712
it's such a wonderful lesson and experience to have as a young professional
00:15:49.712 --> 00:15:54.692
to be doing your job to notice something and then to be listened to and then
00:15:54.692 --> 00:15:56.352
to make a real impact, right?
00:15:56.452 --> 00:16:02.552
We all, no matter where we are in our career, we want to be seen for the work that we're doing.
00:16:02.892 --> 00:16:08.212
And I'm sure that has had an effect of the reasons why you show up and the reasons
00:16:08.212 --> 00:16:12.032
why you pay attention and this already sort of curiosity that you've talked
00:16:12.032 --> 00:16:15.272
about and how it actually can pay off, right?
00:16:15.792 --> 00:16:22.592
And I'm very interested in the kind of professional development of our reputation
00:16:23.032 --> 00:16:27.392
and that because we never know when an organization is going to close through
00:16:27.392 --> 00:16:31.472
or we're going to be laid off or something else is going to happen or we're
00:16:31.472 --> 00:16:33.152
going to have to move, right?
00:16:33.332 --> 00:16:38.012
And so what do we have? What can we always take with us? Our reputation. Who am I?
00:16:38.832 --> 00:16:45.252
And the reputation is not always external. Who do other people say that I am? But who am I?
00:16:45.392 --> 00:16:49.372
Who do I say that I am? In the sense of how do I show up for myself?
00:16:49.672 --> 00:16:53.212
What are my standards for excellent work?
00:16:53.412 --> 00:16:57.212
What are my, as you talked about earlier, you and your husband having this conversation
00:16:57.212 --> 00:16:59.752
about what is the life that you want to have?
00:16:59.892 --> 00:17:03.592
What is this reasonable delineation of work life?
00:17:03.872 --> 00:17:08.252
And those kinds of conversations, sometimes we just don't have them because
00:17:08.252 --> 00:17:10.952
we're just so in the muck of the day today.
00:17:12.554 --> 00:17:17.194
I am really interested in this building of professionalism and reputation,
00:17:17.194 --> 00:17:20.794
my reputation to myself and then my reputation in the world.
00:17:21.254 --> 00:17:27.394
Right. Yeah, I agree. I think that when you feel confident in what your strengths
00:17:27.394 --> 00:17:30.874
are, what your attributes are, what you're bringing forward, your ideologies,
00:17:31.214 --> 00:17:38.494
it does bring you a level of just assurance and confidence when you're speaking
00:17:38.494 --> 00:17:40.714
and when you're sharing your thoughts.
00:17:41.574 --> 00:17:45.554
I also, when I talked about the residency teachers and in business,
00:17:45.754 --> 00:17:50.034
I also worked for a number of years bringing in speakers for a leadership series
00:17:50.034 --> 00:17:51.534
for our residents and fellows.
00:17:51.694 --> 00:17:54.754
And it turned out to be that a lot of our department chairs,
00:17:54.994 --> 00:17:56.314
our deans came to it as well.
00:17:56.594 --> 00:18:02.574
One in particular, I had partnered with the Army and I had a colonel from Walter Reed come and speak.
00:18:02.694 --> 00:18:06.214
And he talked about leadership brand. And funny enough,
00:18:06.434 --> 00:18:09.954
that talk that I had brought him in for them was really,
00:18:10.134 --> 00:18:13.494
really impactful for me as an individual, as a professional,
00:18:13.534 --> 00:18:21.554
because it helped me to realize how important it was to intentionally decide
00:18:21.554 --> 00:18:23.194
what I want my brand to be.
00:18:23.574 --> 00:18:30.254
And it gave me purpose in how I was interacting with people on a daily basis
00:18:30.254 --> 00:18:33.874
and just the rules that I had for myself.
00:18:34.474 --> 00:18:39.074
Of what my expectations were. And it gave me an opportunity really to look back
00:18:39.074 --> 00:18:47.314
on my career from the very first job I ever had into now currently and say,
00:18:47.514 --> 00:18:53.774
you know, what were the things that inspired me from individuals throughout that journey, right?
00:18:54.014 --> 00:18:59.134
And it's amazing because there were people at every level, even at that auto
00:18:59.134 --> 00:19:05.454
body paint shop delivery, that was the best, most fun job I've ever had.
00:19:05.454 --> 00:19:09.934
I had a great tan on my left forearm and my left thigh, top of my thigh.
00:19:10.714 --> 00:19:21.354
But I had a manager who really valued my voice and spoke to me as an equal and
00:19:21.354 --> 00:19:25.734
let me weigh in on things where I could weigh in, you know,
00:19:25.854 --> 00:19:31.274
and in different places along my career up to my professional level now. Yeah.
00:19:31.855 --> 00:19:35.975
I started recognizing those trends, right, and those patterns of when I felt
00:19:35.975 --> 00:19:39.315
most welcomed, when I felt most supported.
00:19:39.875 --> 00:19:42.775
And I knew that's how I wanted to be.
00:19:42.935 --> 00:19:48.435
And that really helped me to create my identity and my leadership brand, for sure.
00:19:48.995 --> 00:19:54.415
Yeah. I mean, a lot of times we just show up and we are being led and leading
00:19:54.415 --> 00:19:58.895
and not really thinking about intentionally doing it, right?
00:19:59.075 --> 00:20:01.055
Because we just act, you know, innately.
00:20:01.275 --> 00:20:04.335
We just sort of go by what worked for us and what didn't work for us.
00:20:04.435 --> 00:20:08.095
But, you know, I'm absolutely clarity is kindness.
00:20:08.455 --> 00:20:12.315
And that's, I usually talk about expectations externally.
00:20:12.375 --> 00:20:18.255
So at work, many people don't really know what is required of them because we
00:20:18.255 --> 00:20:21.455
just, we think they should know or whatever it might be.
00:20:21.555 --> 00:20:23.995
So we're not exactly clear. Or maybe I don't know what you should be doing.
00:20:24.155 --> 00:20:25.255
So how am I supposed to tell you?
00:20:25.575 --> 00:20:31.575
But for ourself, right? If I want to be an excellent leader, what do I mean by that?
00:20:31.695 --> 00:20:37.155
And I love that exercise of looking back and seeing who spoke into you,
00:20:37.355 --> 00:20:42.675
what resonated with you, and specifically such that, and also illustrating that
00:20:42.675 --> 00:20:45.575
it doesn't really matter what the job is about.
00:20:45.795 --> 00:20:49.995
It's about how do we treat people? How do people feel when they leave us.
00:20:50.475 --> 00:20:52.595
Right? What kind of opportunities are forgiving.
00:20:52.815 --> 00:20:57.935
And I really think in particular, when you're young and somebody trusts you
00:20:57.935 --> 00:21:03.675
and somebody treats you with that kind of level of respect that you had,
00:21:03.815 --> 00:21:07.315
it just, it's a new, because we're just coming out into the world, right?
00:21:07.415 --> 00:21:15.835
And it's so, it is so empowering and confidence, building those opportunities. How wonderful.
00:21:16.295 --> 00:21:20.455
Right. You spoke to my heart because my, I don't want to, should I call it my
00:21:20.455 --> 00:21:24.175
slogan? My slogan for like the last six months has been clear is kind.
00:21:24.975 --> 00:21:29.755
Clarity is kindness. I said it to my four-year-old niece just two days ago because
00:21:29.755 --> 00:21:32.615
she said something so clearly to me to communicate.
00:21:32.775 --> 00:21:35.595
And I said, clarity, clear is kind.
00:21:35.795 --> 00:21:40.655
And you did such a great job, you know. So I love that you say that as well
00:21:40.655 --> 00:21:45.775
because I learned I didn't keep it from this experience.
00:21:45.775 --> 00:21:51.215
But it made me think of my eighth grade mentor class that I took in middle school
00:21:51.215 --> 00:21:53.755
about how to be clear in your instructions.
00:21:54.555 --> 00:21:59.795
And we had that. So as a project, we had to pick something we were teaching others how to do.
00:22:00.135 --> 00:22:05.355
Mine was making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And did you skip steps, right?
00:22:06.280 --> 00:22:10.440
It makes me think of that fun activity so many years later because we learned
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:16.380
how unkind it can be when you leave a very serious step out,
00:22:16.520 --> 00:22:21.180
like use a butter knife to spread peanut butter on bread, right?
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:30.280
Yeah, I mean, that's a wonderful example of the steps that we need to go through.
00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:34.460
We just think, oh, you're a professional or, oh, you should know.
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.640
And then we get frustrated, right? We're both in a conflict resolution space.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.400
We deal with workplace conflicts.
00:22:41.780 --> 00:22:45.960
And I'm not sure what you see, but a lot of what I see is the misunderstanding
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.620
is due to lack of clarity of expectations,
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.180
lack of clarity of outcomes, lack of clarity of what are the resources or the
00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:57.360
parameters or the authority that I have or that I don't have.
00:22:57.360 --> 00:23:04.980
And we don't take the time to have these dialogues to really articulate to one
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:09.100
another so that we're actually speaking the same language so that we can then
00:23:09.100 --> 00:23:11.180
move forward and do a good job.
00:23:11.840 --> 00:23:17.500
100%. I agree with you 100%. the, I would say, I mean, nearly.
00:23:18.260 --> 00:23:23.300
I wouldn't, I would be wild and say almost 100% of them are that, that issue, right?
00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:28.800
Because ultimately in, in the root of everything is if you were clearly communicating,
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:32.220
if you were clearly communicating what success looks like, you were clearly
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:35.020
communicating what, what your needs were,
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:40.000
then that person has the possibility to be successful. Yeah. Right.
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:44.200
And if you aren't, then it's sort of it's a guess.
00:23:44.560 --> 00:23:49.560
Yeah. And it's it really is a high possibility that they're going to get something
00:23:49.560 --> 00:23:56.660
wrong that sets them on the wrong trajectory with you as an individual. Definitely.
00:23:57.386 --> 00:24:03.186
Yeah, I mean, you can't overstate how important communication is.
00:24:03.346 --> 00:24:06.366
And communication isn't just be on time, or what does on time mean,
00:24:06.526 --> 00:24:09.046
but passive aggressive comments.
00:24:09.646 --> 00:24:13.806
Those come out because I don't know how to articulate how I'm feeling,
00:24:13.806 --> 00:24:17.366
or I don't even know that I'm feeling, but it's coming out.
00:24:17.486 --> 00:24:22.426
So this lack of self-awareness makes the water murky for the other person.
00:24:22.426 --> 00:24:26.066
And so they're going to then kind of guess because maybe they don't know how
00:24:26.066 --> 00:24:28.146
to say, what did you mean by that?
00:24:28.226 --> 00:24:32.406
Or you said, oh, must be nice to be able to have your own schedule.
00:24:32.986 --> 00:24:35.766
What do you mean by that? Let's talk about schedule.
00:24:36.406 --> 00:24:42.226
Many of us don't take that pause to say that doesn't sound quite right or I'm
00:24:42.226 --> 00:24:45.466
missing something. So let's just pause and have a conversation.
00:24:45.986 --> 00:24:54.626
And yet, if you were to do that, then we don't compound this dance of miscommunication.
00:24:54.826 --> 00:24:57.466
And then six months, nine months, three years later, it's like,
00:24:57.586 --> 00:24:58.766
I can't work with that person.
00:24:59.606 --> 00:25:04.666
Definitely. And, you know, honestly, a lot of the time that I feel most fulfilled
00:25:04.666 --> 00:25:10.706
in my job is when I get someone who is willing to take the risk to call the ombuds really early.
00:25:11.366 --> 00:25:15.306
And we get to chat about those types of things.
00:25:15.466 --> 00:25:22.786
And questions that you can ask for clarity and opportunities for building your
00:25:22.786 --> 00:25:26.906
relationship in a more meaningful way or connecting in an authentic way with
00:25:26.906 --> 00:25:32.026
that individual to repair the small cracks that you're looking at at that point
00:25:32.026 --> 00:25:34.786
that will, they may not know it.
00:25:34.986 --> 00:25:39.566
I've seen it on the farther end, right, where the cracks are the Grand Canyon
00:25:39.566 --> 00:25:46.166
at that point and you cannot traverse that distance. It is really exciting to
00:25:46.166 --> 00:25:48.566
get people who are open to.
00:25:49.311 --> 00:25:52.811
Thinking it through early, early on that process, for sure.
00:25:53.051 --> 00:25:57.311
That's why I love the ombuds profession, ombudsing work.
00:25:57.451 --> 00:26:00.551
I mean, I love mediation, but by the time you get into mediation,
00:26:00.711 --> 00:26:04.071
those cracks are usually chasms or they're widening.
00:26:04.231 --> 00:26:09.231
But to order, in order to have, but to have somebody in your organization that you could go to,
00:26:09.851 --> 00:26:13.351
early on, when you feel like something is going in the wrong direction,
00:26:13.351 --> 00:26:16.131
to get that brainstorming,
00:26:16.271 --> 00:26:19.991
to be able to have someone listen to you and say, you know what
00:26:19.991 --> 00:26:22.931
are your different options what do you want to do and just have that
00:26:22.931 --> 00:26:25.631
listener so that not so that you
00:26:25.631 --> 00:26:29.291
do it for them right but so that they can do it and then they
00:26:29.291 --> 00:26:33.591
then when they do it they start to repair that relationship and it's better
00:26:33.591 --> 00:26:38.151
for everyone so jennifer you mentioned that you're an ombuds i love the ombuds
00:26:38.151 --> 00:26:42.151
profession so for those who are listening who don't know about what an ombuds
00:26:42.151 --> 00:26:48.751
is such a funny word what is an ombuds i didn't know i'd be asked the definition, so let me.
00:26:49.551 --> 00:26:53.531
So, well, and Ombuds can serve in a few different capacities.
00:26:53.791 --> 00:27:03.251
For me, I am an unofficial and informal conduit for solutions, for resources.
00:27:03.291 --> 00:27:10.911
So someone might call me and ask the process with my institution for X, Y, and Z.
00:27:11.111 --> 00:27:16.271
I help to connect them to the right people, the right pages,
00:27:16.451 --> 00:27:21.251
resources, so they can decide if that is a path they want to take.
00:27:21.591 --> 00:27:28.331
I also, like I said, often will end up coaching some because our world is kind of interesting.
00:27:28.891 --> 00:27:34.451
Medical education, especially graduate medical education, is in my institution
00:27:34.451 --> 00:27:37.111
at UofL, the University of Louisville, is a.
00:27:38.436 --> 00:27:42.376
Is all worked through the university. That's not always the case.
00:27:42.536 --> 00:27:46.476
Sometimes the graduate medical education office is through the hospital.
00:27:46.636 --> 00:27:54.576
And so a lot of the rules are put in place for the students that apply to our
00:27:54.576 --> 00:27:58.176
learners because they're through the university. They are classified as students
00:27:58.176 --> 00:27:59.596
through the University of Louisville.
00:27:59.816 --> 00:28:08.436
And so I have to kind of help them think through what are the academic options for you?
00:28:08.556 --> 00:28:10.776
What are the workplace options for you?
00:28:10.936 --> 00:28:15.796
How do you foster the workplace relationships, but also how do you understand
00:28:15.796 --> 00:28:19.656
the academic pieces of that as well and obligations?
00:28:19.976 --> 00:28:24.876
And a lot of confusion lives around that topic, just even within my institution.
00:28:24.876 --> 00:28:30.696
So I spent a lot of time, like I said, educating about that from the very beginning,
00:28:30.916 --> 00:28:34.336
onboarding, as soon as they match with our programs,
00:28:34.736 --> 00:28:41.476
I have a video that I send out to them so that they know who I am, what I am for them.
00:28:41.876 --> 00:28:46.796
And we talk a lot about what UofL is for them and the uniqueness of that.
00:28:47.436 --> 00:28:55.256
So it is very exciting field to be in. It's a very complex environment to be in. And as an ombuds,
00:28:55.955 --> 00:29:02.595
That can be complicated. That can be difficult because clear is kind and our world is not clear.
00:29:05.855 --> 00:29:11.715
So I must admit. Well, I think that is the case in so many institutions,
00:29:12.135 --> 00:29:14.335
certainly in academic institutions.
00:29:14.615 --> 00:29:17.855
Things change all the time. What catalog year did you come in?
00:29:17.975 --> 00:29:22.875
Or with the change of administration, politically different rules and laws change.
00:29:23.015 --> 00:29:26.855
And so and then, of course, in the medical field, things are always changing. and
00:29:26.855 --> 00:29:30.535
so it's a dynamic field or industry
00:29:30.535 --> 00:29:33.655
the education industry but in all organizations things
00:29:33.655 --> 00:29:36.915
are constantly changing and I think about conflict
00:29:36.915 --> 00:29:39.735
you know somebody shows up on the first day of work and they're not
00:29:39.735 --> 00:29:44.275
expecting to have a problem right and so they get on boarded they hear about
00:29:44.275 --> 00:29:49.055
you know this that and the other and what vacation is and all these other kinds
00:29:49.055 --> 00:29:54.255
of things and then we get into the into work and we have conflict because it's
00:29:54.255 --> 00:29:57.675
normal because it happens This is just absolutely normal.
00:29:58.315 --> 00:30:01.675
And then what are we supposed to do? And we might say, well,
00:30:01.735 --> 00:30:05.695
the handbook says, or you just go online and these are your options and these
00:30:05.695 --> 00:30:06.695
are all the different offices.
00:30:06.695 --> 00:30:14.015
But there's something about conflict that just is so disorienting and we don't know what to do.
00:30:14.155 --> 00:30:19.095
And to be able to have somebody in an organization who is dedicated to say,
00:30:19.195 --> 00:30:20.935
hey, well, let's talk about it.
00:30:21.075 --> 00:30:25.315
Let me help give you some clarity. Let me show you what your different options
00:30:25.315 --> 00:30:30.035
are instead of just going, just, you know, saying, okay, I'm going to go to
00:30:30.035 --> 00:30:33.475
this place. And they might, of course, this place and the organization might
00:30:33.475 --> 00:30:34.615
send you to another place.
00:30:34.735 --> 00:30:38.915
But to really have this place where you can look at all these different sorts
00:30:38.915 --> 00:30:45.235
of options and have the person talk about what is really going on, what is the route,
00:30:45.515 --> 00:30:52.295
what is it that they want to solve, and how might they go about doing it within this institution.
00:30:53.655 --> 00:30:58.055
Is about empowering people, right? Conflict resolution is about personal empowerment.
00:30:58.475 --> 00:31:02.835
And that's what I love about ombuds. Ombuds aren't mental health counselors.
00:31:03.235 --> 00:31:06.635
They're not going to tell you what to do. They're not, as you said,
00:31:06.755 --> 00:31:10.675
it's unofficial. So it's not like you're reporting to the university or the
00:31:10.675 --> 00:31:14.315
institution where now you're in the pipeline and you have to do this because
00:31:14.315 --> 00:31:15.875
now we've written up a report.
00:31:16.215 --> 00:31:21.175
But it really gives people their power back to help them de-escalate themselves
00:31:21.175 --> 00:31:25.275
so that they can choose what is the best next step for them.
00:31:25.987 --> 00:31:32.067
Right. 100%. So I definitely live in a world where my constituents are fearful.
00:31:32.267 --> 00:31:36.987
They're in a limbo, sort of, right? Most people finish their terminal degree
00:31:36.987 --> 00:31:42.427
and come out with a PhD and go off into their professional career and are given
00:31:42.427 --> 00:31:46.507
a lot of weight in their credentials.
00:31:46.807 --> 00:31:52.887
As an MD or a DO or MBBS, there's many credentials that come with clinical practitioners,
00:31:52.887 --> 00:31:55.267
but they will come out of that education.
00:31:55.587 --> 00:32:01.927
And they start now in their more experiential learning in a clinical hospital setting.
00:32:02.287 --> 00:32:07.587
And they're constantly being evaluated. And they're really, they feel powerful
00:32:07.587 --> 00:32:09.007
when they get done with their degree.
00:32:09.127 --> 00:32:11.907
And then they feel very not powerful immediately.
00:32:12.507 --> 00:32:15.647
And so they are fearful to ask questions.
00:32:15.927 --> 00:32:18.567
They're fearful to not look like they know exactly what they're doing.
00:32:18.727 --> 00:32:21.967
And I am a safe space for them. I don't have a medical degree.
00:32:22.327 --> 00:32:26.867
You don't have to worry about looking stupid to me because I don't know the
00:32:26.867 --> 00:32:28.107
answer to that anyways, right?
00:32:28.567 --> 00:32:32.227
I'm not going to fill out their evaluation. I'm not going to,
00:32:32.507 --> 00:32:34.587
you know, I tell them at the beginning of the conversations,
00:32:34.587 --> 00:32:39.607
I am a mandatory reporter if there's something that is a danger to you or others
00:32:39.607 --> 00:32:43.407
or, you know, things of those nature, the federal mandates.
00:32:43.927 --> 00:32:48.587
So if that's something you need to share, I need to share with you that I am
00:32:48.587 --> 00:32:51.887
responsible for those things as well. But otherwise, the sky's the limit.
00:32:52.087 --> 00:32:55.107
Let's talk about all your fears, all the things you're trying to figure out.
00:32:55.287 --> 00:33:00.567
And really it is, it does sort of cross the gamut. I have helped people transition
00:33:00.567 --> 00:33:02.147
into a different specialty.
00:33:02.407 --> 00:33:04.167
They realize they don't feel like they fit.
00:33:04.627 --> 00:33:09.167
And so what are their options? What, what are they, what are they feeling?
00:33:09.487 --> 00:33:13.387
You know, help me figure it out, you know? And so I help them often organize
00:33:13.387 --> 00:33:19.407
their thoughts, think through ways they may approach it. And I do feel all.
00:33:20.216 --> 00:33:25.336
Very, I do feel like I have a very special place for them.
00:33:25.336 --> 00:33:30.136
And I love when at the end of the conversation, they call me and I can hear
00:33:30.136 --> 00:33:34.936
the intensity in their voice, or they show up at my door and they're huffing
00:33:34.936 --> 00:33:37.696
and puffing from the stress that they're feeling in that moment.
00:33:37.976 --> 00:33:42.416
And then as they're walking out or getting off the phone, so many times they
00:33:42.416 --> 00:33:44.516
say to me, I feel so much better,
00:33:44.736 --> 00:33:52.176
you know, and that is really what keeps me going because sometimes it's hard.
00:33:52.336 --> 00:33:54.416
I'm a, I am a problem fixer.
00:33:54.756 --> 00:33:59.356
I like to have solutions and I like it to be as quick as possible,
00:33:59.356 --> 00:34:02.516
but my world is not that as an ombuds.
00:34:02.616 --> 00:34:08.896
And so I have to sort of play down my personal instincts to want to find a solution
00:34:08.896 --> 00:34:15.876
now and, and allow for them to cultivate the things that we're talking about into success.
00:34:16.516 --> 00:34:20.296
And sometimes things are the long game. A lot of times in my world,
00:34:20.476 --> 00:34:21.896
everything's the long game.
00:34:22.056 --> 00:34:25.296
And so how do you, how do you plant seeds?
00:34:25.516 --> 00:34:31.616
How do you lay the soil the right way? And how do you really work to nurture
00:34:31.616 --> 00:34:38.716
a future, a relationship, a safe place for these learners? And that's what I
00:34:38.716 --> 00:34:40.216
try to stay focused on. Hmm.
00:34:41.057 --> 00:34:47.517
So how did you get into ombudging? So funny enough, I really was in real estate.
00:34:47.717 --> 00:34:52.317
I was a realtor for five years and I decided I wanted to go back to school,
00:34:52.517 --> 00:34:54.097
but I didn't want to pay for it. Right.
00:34:54.497 --> 00:34:58.477
That's where it comes down to being driven in the way I was as a 12 year old babysitter.
00:34:58.957 --> 00:35:03.977
And so I thought, what's the best way to be able to go back and do classes but
00:35:03.977 --> 00:35:07.757
not have to pay tuition is to get a job in at the university.
00:35:07.977 --> 00:35:14.857
Right. And so I went to the university and they had a temp service internally at that time.
00:35:14.937 --> 00:35:18.557
And they just happened to place me in the graduate medical education office
00:35:18.557 --> 00:35:21.257
at the front desk answering their phones and doing the mail.
00:35:21.497 --> 00:35:27.817
And so 18 years ago, I came in as a temp into that role quickly within three months.
00:35:28.057 --> 00:35:33.977
I think my department realized I wasn't in the right role. And so I moved into other roles.
00:35:34.157 --> 00:35:37.697
I've been through about five different roles in my office. I've been the ombuds
00:35:37.697 --> 00:35:40.357
and the director of strategic engagement for the last eight years.
00:35:40.757 --> 00:35:46.817
How I ended up there was that the vice dean, the head of the department academically,
00:35:46.817 --> 00:35:52.377
really was a wonderful mentor, professional mentor for many, many people.
00:35:52.977 --> 00:35:58.177
But I was given the opportunity to work closely with him. I supported him in a lot of ways.
00:35:58.477 --> 00:36:01.937
And so he and I would do projects together. one day
00:36:01.937 --> 00:36:07.197
he came in and said you know the mayor is doing a toy drive for the holidays
00:36:07.197 --> 00:36:10.877
and I said oh yeah he said what do you think about us doing that would you think
00:36:10.877 --> 00:36:15.117
we could do it and I said probably I could get something together when when
00:36:15.117 --> 00:36:20.317
is it happening he said it started yesterday and we have five we have five days you know.
00:36:21.906 --> 00:36:25.366
And I said, well, I better get started then, right?
00:36:25.606 --> 00:36:33.686
And so within three days, we had raised over 500 toys to donate to the mayor's
00:36:33.686 --> 00:36:35.886
initiative for this toy drive.
00:36:35.986 --> 00:36:39.546
And so I think that really kicked it off that he realized that I was his,
00:36:39.706 --> 00:36:41.446
he would call me his girl Friday.
00:36:41.726 --> 00:36:45.366
You know, whatever thing, you know, came to his mind.
00:36:45.546 --> 00:36:50.326
And so we spent time together going and working with these initiatives.
00:36:50.326 --> 00:36:55.026
And he started realizing that we would get on an elevator and have to go five floors up.
00:36:55.146 --> 00:36:57.846
And I would start talking to the person on the elevator with us.
00:36:57.926 --> 00:37:00.746
And by the time we would get off, I would know that they're there to visit their
00:37:00.746 --> 00:37:05.446
niece and that, you know, she was having a kidney transplant and that they wore
00:37:05.446 --> 00:37:08.846
a size 12 in their pants and that they were 45 years old.
00:37:09.006 --> 00:37:11.946
And that, you know, I mean, all this stuff. And we'd get off the elevator and
00:37:11.946 --> 00:37:14.966
he would look at me and say, I just don't.
00:37:15.146 --> 00:37:22.166
How do you do that? You know, what is the. And so I like to say that I am a
00:37:22.166 --> 00:37:24.366
sole ombuds. I'm an only.
00:37:24.606 --> 00:37:30.546
I work alone. But we had a founding ombuds who was an associate dean who left
00:37:30.546 --> 00:37:32.726
and went to private practice.
00:37:32.946 --> 00:37:39.226
And so after that associate dean left, my vice dean was really sort of trying
00:37:39.226 --> 00:37:41.766
to figure out how can we reframe this?
00:37:41.866 --> 00:37:45.726
We had realized in that experience that there were some conflicts of interest
00:37:45.726 --> 00:37:50.486
of being a faculty member. And so the learners in her department really couldn't
00:37:50.486 --> 00:37:51.906
feel safe approaching, right?
00:37:52.046 --> 00:37:55.766
And so by then I had about nine years of experience.
00:37:55.766 --> 00:38:00.566
He knew about my, just this weird thing where people just want to tell me things
00:38:00.566 --> 00:38:06.166
that I don't know how that happens really. But he came to me and said,
00:38:06.266 --> 00:38:08.866
what do you think? Do you think this is something you'd like to do?
00:38:09.026 --> 00:38:12.826
And I just responded and said, I'm not trained for this.
00:38:12.946 --> 00:38:18.246
I don't know how to do this. And he said, I think you are more qualified than you think you are.
00:38:18.666 --> 00:38:23.786
And that was it. That was how I became the ombuds. And I spent the first few years,
00:38:24.466 --> 00:38:28.546
trying to believe him, you know, that I would be good at doing it.
00:38:28.606 --> 00:38:31.166
And he mentored me through my first three years as well.
00:38:31.246 --> 00:38:38.426
And then he retired. So I have spent a number of years relishing in the things,
00:38:38.666 --> 00:38:40.506
the confidence he gave me in a lot of ways.
00:38:40.646 --> 00:38:45.506
And also appreciating the strengths that I had identified in myself,
00:38:45.766 --> 00:38:48.526
appreciating that he was willing to recognize those things in me.
00:38:49.546 --> 00:38:55.686
What a just a great example and not to embarrass you but a professionalism right so you come as
00:38:55.986 --> 00:38:59.566
a temp secretary because you want to do something else and here you are in this
00:38:59.566 --> 00:39:03.726
wonderful career 18 years later and largely it's because of how you showed up
00:39:03.726 --> 00:39:10.786
and being yourself and and this work ethic so that it's seen by other people
00:39:10.786 --> 00:39:14.266
because we deeply desire to be around other people who are competent,
00:39:14.606 --> 00:39:21.946
who will do whatever is needed at the time, and the reciprocity of though being
00:39:21.946 --> 00:39:27.046
seen, which then feeds into our desire to show up more, and then people see us more.
00:39:27.146 --> 00:39:32.386
It's this really wonderful symbiotic relationship of picture of health.
00:39:32.566 --> 00:39:36.166
Of course, toxicity can go the other way, where it's one thing,
00:39:36.286 --> 00:39:39.606
and then which causes another, which causes another thing, and now we've got
00:39:39.606 --> 00:39:45.326
these toxins in the air because of the snowball effect of the good or the bad.
00:39:45.826 --> 00:39:51.166
Right. So as somebody who is a professional ombudsman in the peace space who
00:39:51.166 --> 00:39:56.846
is interested in helping people deal with their conflicts, how do you deal with conflict?
00:39:56.886 --> 00:40:02.146
Or can you tell us about a time that you had a conflict at work and how you dealt with it?
00:40:02.915 --> 00:40:09.315
Sure. So, I mean, as an ombuds, I would say I get a lot of experience dealing
00:40:09.315 --> 00:40:14.415
with conflict in a way that is an outward influence into me, right?
00:40:14.855 --> 00:40:21.575
If I think through what conflict I deal with on a daily basis or in my own realm,
00:40:21.835 --> 00:40:29.295
I will say, I mean, I try my best to come at the world and at my daily life
00:40:29.295 --> 00:40:32.035
with the perspective of, I'm okay, you're okay.
00:40:32.035 --> 00:40:35.375
I'm okay. I'm not perfect. I'm okay.
00:40:35.555 --> 00:40:42.235
And I want your independent, you know, idiosyncrasies and the thing that makes you you,
00:40:42.535 --> 00:40:45.555
even though they might be sometimes a little difficult to deal with,
00:40:45.675 --> 00:40:51.255
for me as my personality, I want to remind myself that you're okay too.
00:40:51.435 --> 00:40:57.675
And we're just trying to intermingle. We're just trying to function, right, together.
00:40:58.095 --> 00:41:05.035
And I really try to allow that to just wash over me in a level of acceptance
00:41:05.035 --> 00:41:10.095
and to not try to internalize the things that maybe would typically,
00:41:10.135 --> 00:41:12.795
I don't know, I'm actually not,
00:41:12.995 --> 00:41:16.315
personally, I'm sort of the middle ground person.
00:41:16.315 --> 00:41:22.255
I'm the person who is the glue to some extent with siblings and,
00:41:22.255 --> 00:41:24.795
you know, that things don't bother me much.
00:41:25.175 --> 00:41:27.495
And so maybe it makes it easier for me.
00:41:28.175 --> 00:41:33.895
But when I do have a situation that I think, the only exception I have with
00:41:33.895 --> 00:41:37.675
I'm okay, you're okay, is when I feel like things, people, external things are
00:41:37.675 --> 00:41:39.595
being harmed in that situation.
00:41:40.175 --> 00:41:47.575
And that's when I push myself to come forward and say, we need to talk through this, right?
00:41:47.735 --> 00:41:53.315
I can ignore a lot of things and just take a lot of external sort of factors
00:41:53.315 --> 00:41:55.255
into my life and be okay with it.
00:41:55.255 --> 00:42:02.855
But if I feel like it's harming someone who's more vulnerable or someone who, you know,
00:42:03.695 --> 00:42:09.635
needs to be nurtured in a different way or might internalize it differently,
00:42:10.075 --> 00:42:12.075
then I do feel like I have to advocate.
00:42:12.075 --> 00:42:20.115
And so I will, I will say things, my approach typically is a very matter-of-fact
00:42:20.115 --> 00:42:24.135
way, right, in a, how, how.
00:42:25.322 --> 00:42:33.142
I know that what you just said to me was not intended in the way that it felt for me, right?
00:42:33.642 --> 00:42:38.582
And I also just try to assume good intentions. That's also a place where people
00:42:38.582 --> 00:42:41.582
start to go down a slippery slide and can't come back.
00:42:41.962 --> 00:42:45.322
And it's based out of trust in that other human.
00:42:45.682 --> 00:42:49.422
And if you don't have a lot of trust and then you assume bad intentions,
00:42:49.422 --> 00:42:52.982
then you will never trust anything that comes from them. and you will never
00:42:52.982 --> 00:42:57.102
perceive anything that you're exposed to with them in a positive light.
00:42:58.042 --> 00:43:02.802
And so I try to control those impulses. If I have them about someone,
00:43:02.982 --> 00:43:06.202
I try to make sure that I give them the benefit of the doubt,
00:43:06.382 --> 00:43:08.762
that I give them the trust that
00:43:08.762 --> 00:43:14.782
I can, based on the patterns I have pulled together in that relationship.
00:43:16.422 --> 00:43:19.302
Consistency is important to me. feeling like
00:43:19.302 --> 00:43:22.322
i know that if i share something
00:43:22.322 --> 00:43:25.302
vulnerable that they will be receptive of that
00:43:25.302 --> 00:43:28.102
and vice versa right and i
00:43:28.102 --> 00:43:30.982
and i encourage a lot of the the trainees
00:43:30.982 --> 00:43:35.602
that call me that one word i use with them be vulnerable be willing to share
00:43:35.602 --> 00:43:40.262
your feelings be willing to share how something makes you feel and i feel like
00:43:40.262 --> 00:43:48.622
really a lot often a lot of times that other individual doesn't realize their impact on you.
00:43:49.402 --> 00:43:56.062
And I truly have seen relationships that were just off for strange reasons.
00:43:56.362 --> 00:44:00.722
Sometimes I'm in a situation where I'm like, I don't feel, I don't get the feeling
00:44:00.722 --> 00:44:04.162
that they are responding well with me.
00:44:04.382 --> 00:44:06.842
Let me investigate that a little bit.
00:44:07.422 --> 00:44:10.362
What could have happened? Where could it have gone wrong?
00:44:10.522 --> 00:44:14.942
And how can I improve and foster positivity moving forward.
00:44:15.102 --> 00:44:19.962
And I truly have experienced that multiple times, as long as I stay in that mindset.
00:44:21.181 --> 00:44:25.021
I love that you started with saying, I say it matter-of-factly.
00:44:25.321 --> 00:44:30.481
It's this, I think, holding this matter-of-fact with being vulnerable, right?
00:44:30.521 --> 00:44:33.721
I think a lot of times we think being vulnerable is sort of more like this bleeding
00:44:33.721 --> 00:44:35.641
heart and things are just gushing out.
00:44:35.941 --> 00:44:38.741
Instead of saying, you know, like with nonviolent communication,
00:44:39.001 --> 00:44:43.961
this happened, I have this feeling because I have this need, right?
00:44:44.141 --> 00:44:48.941
That is a kind of vulnerability. I'm telling you I'm having an emotional reaction
00:44:48.941 --> 00:44:50.801
because of something that I have observed.
00:44:51.121 --> 00:44:56.081
But when we say, when we package it in this relatively matter of fact,
00:44:56.221 --> 00:45:00.781
instead of I'm angry or I'm crying, you know, all of this emotion is,
00:45:00.861 --> 00:45:03.041
it's very hard to listen to what the message is.
00:45:03.501 --> 00:45:10.341
Right. And so when you can deescalate yourself to really share appropriately,
00:45:10.721 --> 00:45:12.181
right, appropriately, vulnerably.
00:45:12.681 --> 00:45:16.061
But if I say, you know this
00:45:16.061 --> 00:45:19.221
made me angry or this made me angry right
00:45:19.221 --> 00:45:23.061
this made me angry because i have this need i am
00:45:23.061 --> 00:45:28.941
stating the facts and part of the fact is about me and my response and therefore
00:45:28.941 --> 00:45:31.661
this is what i would like you know this is my request i have moving forward
00:45:31.661 --> 00:45:37.861
but it is finding that in those difficult conversations that that where you're
00:45:37.861 --> 00:45:42.901
inviting somebody else in means that you really have to be in control of yourself.
00:45:42.901 --> 00:45:46.821
Or if you're not in control of yourself, it's probably not the time to have
00:45:46.821 --> 00:45:47.801
a difficult conversation.
00:45:48.601 --> 00:45:52.501
Right, right. And I'm not, I won't sit here and say I'm perfect at it all the
00:45:52.501 --> 00:45:55.621
time. Sometimes an ombuds needs an ombuds, right? Of course.
00:45:56.321 --> 00:46:01.361
And you need to be reminded of those things.
00:46:02.121 --> 00:46:09.621
And I can look back at those experiences and recognize that I was too emotional
00:46:09.621 --> 00:46:13.501
in that moment and, and think through how would I do it moving forward?
00:46:13.841 --> 00:46:17.881
You know, how would I change that, the actions I took at that time?
00:46:18.541 --> 00:46:22.441
But I had a lot of practice up, you know, honestly, I can never speak about
00:46:22.441 --> 00:46:27.821
myself without sort of acknowledging a journey we as a family had for 13 years,
00:46:28.081 --> 00:46:31.761
for 13 of the 18 years I've been in GME, my
00:46:31.761 --> 00:46:34.941
mom was living with alzheimer's and so that
00:46:34.941 --> 00:46:37.801
personal journey that we were going through and all
00:46:37.801 --> 00:46:43.821
of the emotions and growing as a team together to be caregivers for her gave
00:46:43.821 --> 00:46:47.801
me a lot of perspective but it also gave me a lot of practice having a lot of
00:46:47.801 --> 00:46:51.201
emotions that didn't have to do with the the thing i was dealing with at that
00:46:51.201 --> 00:46:54.961
moment but that was filling my bucket and
00:46:55.336 --> 00:47:00.176
And so how how I could be more resilient in that moment.
00:47:00.516 --> 00:47:05.596
And I have to give credit to that tough childhood that I didn't really want
00:47:05.596 --> 00:47:08.116
my kids to have 100 percent, but a little bit.
00:47:08.276 --> 00:47:16.876
But I learned so much of you think you can't handle more and then you can. Yeah.
00:47:18.576 --> 00:47:23.516
And to be, again, to compartmentalize, but to see it from a pragmatic standpoint
00:47:23.516 --> 00:47:25.796
in that I just need to state my truth.
00:47:26.256 --> 00:47:31.016
It was okay for me to make the decision. Everyone has to make the decision for
00:47:31.016 --> 00:47:34.196
themselves. And I also encourage individuals to do this.
00:47:35.136 --> 00:47:38.056
What of your story are you willing to share?
00:47:38.236 --> 00:47:42.976
Because the more of your story that you share, the more that other person can
00:47:42.976 --> 00:47:45.756
come to you from the space that you're in at the moment.
00:47:46.356 --> 00:47:49.796
You know, I am not a private person.
00:47:49.976 --> 00:47:57.396
I am someone who wants the people around me to know what I am facing so that
00:47:57.396 --> 00:47:59.076
so that things make sense.
00:47:59.276 --> 00:48:04.336
And that, you know, they they also that's, I guess, why I get on an elevator
00:48:04.336 --> 00:48:07.016
and I get off knowing so much about people.
00:48:07.776 --> 00:48:13.516
I've had times where I get on an elevator and someone's upset and I am able
00:48:13.516 --> 00:48:18.636
to talk with them and find out it's about being a caregiver and taking care
00:48:18.636 --> 00:48:22.276
of an elderly parent or a parent who's ill or a child.
00:48:22.856 --> 00:48:29.456
And I'm able to speak from an authentic place of experience and help them through that.
00:48:29.796 --> 00:48:35.016
And just even if it's like, oh, I have to find an assisted living facility.
00:48:35.016 --> 00:48:40.216
I need to find a rehab place. We talk about how I toured many places and the
00:48:40.216 --> 00:48:43.596
things that I was drawn to and the things that I really didn't love,
00:48:43.656 --> 00:48:47.836
but that you have to decide as an individual and as a family what it is that
00:48:47.836 --> 00:48:50.476
your person needs, right?
00:48:50.656 --> 00:48:53.076
And so those are things that I share.
00:48:53.296 --> 00:48:57.976
Those are the things that I have learned have been my life lessons about how
00:48:57.976 --> 00:49:04.056
I approach life now in my career and in my personal space as well.
00:49:04.842 --> 00:49:08.302
Yeah, you know, this idea of resilience, a lot of times when we think about
00:49:08.302 --> 00:49:13.602
conflict management, we think, okay, I've got this need or I've got this need
00:49:13.602 --> 00:49:17.082
or want, and you've got this other one, and who's going to win, right?
00:49:17.542 --> 00:49:21.502
But it's so much more than that if we allow it, right? You know,
00:49:21.642 --> 00:49:23.922
sometimes it does take us a long time to learn lessons.
00:49:24.102 --> 00:49:29.402
But if we think about, I'm in this for the long haul, which is my life,
00:49:29.622 --> 00:49:31.202
right? And I want to become resilient.
00:49:31.302 --> 00:49:35.242
And it's not about just this isolated conflict.
00:49:35.482 --> 00:49:40.482
But if I choose to show up well, that's going to help me in the next one and the next thing.
00:49:40.942 --> 00:49:44.742
And as you know, as you just stated, life is hard.
00:49:45.102 --> 00:49:48.242
We have to deal with really, really difficult things.
00:49:48.462 --> 00:49:54.122
And the more that we invest when things are a little bit hard,
00:49:54.442 --> 00:49:58.162
then we are going to develop those competencies and
00:49:58.162 --> 00:50:01.182
confidence for when the difficult things happen
00:50:01.182 --> 00:50:04.342
and they happen to all of us death is
00:50:04.342 --> 00:50:07.222
where we will all end up and most of us will get sick
00:50:07.222 --> 00:50:10.002
at some time along the line and or be with
00:50:10.002 --> 00:50:15.742
people that we love that get sick and everything else right and so life is filled
00:50:15.742 --> 00:50:21.722
with sorrow and hardship and joy it's all of it right but in the difficulty
00:50:21.722 --> 00:50:28.142
which we know is going to happen if we think about at work the conflicts that
00:50:28.142 --> 00:50:29.442
happen as opportunities,
00:50:29.702 --> 00:50:35.362
a school for virtue, an opportunity to decide who I'm going to be and who am
00:50:35.362 --> 00:50:38.142
I going to be in this relationship with this person who's causing me pain?
00:50:38.382 --> 00:50:42.742
How am I going to respond to them? What kind of bridge am I going to build with them?
00:50:42.942 --> 00:50:48.942
And then see that that translates other places because we're continually making ourselves.
00:50:49.502 --> 00:50:55.882
And this resilience, right, of it's not getting rid of pain. That's not possible.
00:50:56.122 --> 00:51:03.362
In life, you will not escape pain, but how do you go through it so that it doesn't,
00:51:03.562 --> 00:51:06.622
it's not harder than it needs to be?
00:51:07.442 --> 00:51:15.202
Right. And I have found for me, going through it is easier when I have people with me.
00:51:15.342 --> 00:51:21.362
And even if they're not actively supporting me, but they just find,
00:51:21.542 --> 00:51:25.302
they help express their understanding for me.
00:51:25.462 --> 00:51:30.142
It helps me to feel not so isolated, right? And not so alone.
00:51:31.122 --> 00:51:34.502
And so, you know, leaning back into the ombuds side of things,
00:51:34.782 --> 00:51:40.042
last year for me as an ombuds, I was faced with more what I would classify as
00:51:40.042 --> 00:51:43.982
tragedy as an ombuds than ever before in my career.
00:51:44.242 --> 00:51:47.522
And it was a challenging year because it was really about,
00:51:48.459 --> 00:51:56.879
How do I help leadership and programs support the individual trainee going through
00:51:56.879 --> 00:52:02.819
a tragedy and then support their peers that are feeling so many emotions with
00:52:02.819 --> 00:52:07.719
that tragedy that that one individual is feeling and then support their leaders,
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:12.939
their faculty that are that are also trying to support and feeling unsure?
00:52:12.939 --> 00:52:18.379
The majority of people don't know how to have hard conversations and how to
00:52:18.379 --> 00:52:20.079
approach hard things, right?
00:52:21.019 --> 00:52:27.079
And so I spent a lot of time talking through how to see those people,
00:52:27.319 --> 00:52:30.019
how to give them space, but not too much space, right?
00:52:30.019 --> 00:52:34.719
How to encourage the others, the peers,
00:52:34.979 --> 00:52:42.839
to find ways to control the turmoil they're in by putting efforts together in
00:52:42.839 --> 00:52:44.619
ways they can support that individual,
00:52:44.879 --> 00:52:50.379
but not talking to them about not individually all calling at the same time
00:52:50.379 --> 00:52:52.979
or, you know, different things of that nature.
00:52:52.979 --> 00:52:58.139
And I will say that that last year was a place where my personal life and my
00:52:58.139 --> 00:53:00.799
professional life collided in a lot of ways.
00:53:00.979 --> 00:53:03.139
And it was a struggle.
00:53:03.459 --> 00:53:08.799
It was a year where I struggled as an individual because I had things happening at home.
00:53:08.959 --> 00:53:11.639
A loved one that was dealing with lymphoma.
00:53:11.839 --> 00:53:17.719
And one morning I had gotten a communication. It was someone who I'm near,
00:53:17.959 --> 00:53:22.639
who's very dear to me, but isn't part of my daily life. So I had gotten a communication
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:23.539
that they had been diagnosed.
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:27.979
And then I went to work and I got a call from a program director who had a trainee
00:53:27.979 --> 00:53:29.019
who was dealing with a tragedy.
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:34.079
And I was going through those steps, explaining to that program director how
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:43.479
to do it, feeling very much like I should be doing that for the person in my life. And I couldn't.
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:46.319
It was a stressful, very busy time professionally.
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:52.079
And so I wasn't able to stop and drive to that person immediately.
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:57.659
And I wasn't able to do those things that I knew. And I was telling this other person how to do.
00:53:57.799 --> 00:54:04.239
And that was really a sort of a monumental point in my career because I was
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:08.419
really feeling everything, all those emotions sort of mixing together.
00:54:08.959 --> 00:54:13.379
But again, in a moment where you learn, because in my field,
00:54:13.499 --> 00:54:16.999
in my world, many doctors are dealing with that on a daily basis too.
00:54:17.659 --> 00:54:21.419
And so it gave me some perspective because a lot of times people.
00:54:22.010 --> 00:54:25.910
You're dealing with life and death in the medical field. And a lot of times
00:54:25.910 --> 00:54:29.170
at home, you're dealing with potentially life and death also.
00:54:29.330 --> 00:54:34.030
Like you said, Mary, it's very much a part of all of our lives.
00:54:35.610 --> 00:54:42.630
So it's a journey, right? And, you know, it's really important to find the beautiful
00:54:42.630 --> 00:54:49.270
parts of the journey, even when it's, you're, you're sort of lost in the, in the haze. Right.
00:54:50.190 --> 00:54:54.830
So, you know, that's one thing definitely also from my childhood and my father,
00:54:55.070 --> 00:54:59.890
who is the person in the military, about being optimistic and finding the positive
00:54:59.890 --> 00:55:01.290
in a very difficult situation.
00:55:01.290 --> 00:55:05.630
And it really does help with moving forward through those kind of situations.
00:55:06.210 --> 00:55:10.090
Yeah. And having that third party like an ombuds or a conflict professional
00:55:10.090 --> 00:55:14.950
to reach out to because we all need help from time to time. And the sooner we
00:55:14.950 --> 00:55:16.850
get it, the better, right?
00:55:16.950 --> 00:55:21.430
The sooner you see that spot on your arm, you know, and you get it checked out,
00:55:21.790 --> 00:55:23.370
right? Then you just let it go.
00:55:23.690 --> 00:55:26.470
Because when we ignore things, they don't go away. They just,
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:31.110
you know, dig in. Yeah, what a metaphor, right? It fits right into that.
00:55:32.550 --> 00:55:37.130
So, Jennifer, my last question for you is, as you look into the future of work,
00:55:37.270 --> 00:55:42.010
what do you think needs to happen so that not only will all workers be treated
00:55:42.010 --> 00:55:46.290
with dignity and respect, but that they're encouraged to thrive and flourish?
00:55:47.530 --> 00:55:51.590
So I really have learned a lot over the last couple of years.
00:55:51.770 --> 00:55:54.330
I've gotten to participate in some leadership things.
00:55:54.590 --> 00:55:59.770
And there was one in particular that I did that we took a lot of tests about
00:55:59.770 --> 00:56:01.690
what kind of leader we are. Right.
00:56:01.990 --> 00:56:06.310
And also we had a lot of dialogue about accepting different types of leaders
00:56:06.310 --> 00:56:11.890
into the space. Everyone serves a purpose and everyone has strengths as individuals
00:56:11.890 --> 00:56:15.390
and bringing it in a different way to the circumstances.
00:56:16.550 --> 00:56:19.730
But ultimately, I would say, as I went through that journey,
00:56:19.890 --> 00:56:24.650
I identified myself and I wouldn't have 15 years ago as more of an authentic.
00:56:25.170 --> 00:56:30.290
I'm drawn to the authentic leadership style. And so I have to admit that that's
00:56:30.290 --> 00:56:34.450
my favorite because I do feel like in my journey,
00:56:34.770 --> 00:56:39.410
through my professional journey, I have found that the leadership that approaches
00:56:39.410 --> 00:56:46.970
from an authentic place and a transparent place to the space that they can,
00:56:47.270 --> 00:56:49.150
right? We know that there's some things I can't.
00:56:49.250 --> 00:56:57.210
But when you come at a situation authentically, you give the others a safe space to express themselves.
00:56:57.950 --> 00:57:03.050
And I think ultimately, people really just want to be seen and heard,
00:57:03.310 --> 00:57:08.570
especially when we talk about this new group of learners coming forward and
00:57:08.570 --> 00:57:11.890
this new workforce coming forward. I think that.
00:57:12.747 --> 00:57:21.167
Generationally, they really need that too to feel like they can contribute in a meaningful way.
00:57:21.607 --> 00:57:27.987
But I look at myself as that 16-year-old and as the 20-year-old and then as
00:57:27.987 --> 00:57:32.347
the 35-year-old experiencing it from different people at the different levels
00:57:32.347 --> 00:57:37.507
of professional space that I was in and realizing that that was really what
00:57:37.507 --> 00:57:39.387
made me, like you said earlier,
00:57:39.887 --> 00:57:44.327
want to work harder for that person, want to be there, want to show up.
00:57:44.467 --> 00:57:50.887
If I trusted them, if I had found the patterns in consistency of a space where
00:57:50.887 --> 00:57:54.167
I could be vulnerable, I didn't have to say all the right things all the time.
00:57:54.167 --> 00:58:00.087
They could take what I was saying with the benefit of the doubt and understanding what I was saying.
00:58:00.267 --> 00:58:04.467
Ultimately, I wanted to give them everything I had.
00:58:05.027 --> 00:58:10.827
And I really think that in any environment you're in professionally,
00:58:11.267 --> 00:58:17.547
if you approach the people you're supervising in that way and you approach your
00:58:17.547 --> 00:58:24.907
supervisor in that way, that we can have really functional, dynamic.
00:58:25.967 --> 00:58:30.887
Really, you know, cultivate a great workplace for everyone.
00:58:31.427 --> 00:58:34.967
We're all adults and we all should be treated as adults.
00:58:35.367 --> 00:58:39.347
Now, I also say, maybe should this be my last parting thing I say,
00:58:39.407 --> 00:58:44.027
but I also say, in the end, they're not going to write on my headstone,
00:58:44.187 --> 00:58:47.587
the best GME office worker around, you know?
00:58:48.727 --> 00:58:54.387
Right. I want to be a great human. I want to be a great contributor to my society
00:58:54.387 --> 00:58:58.727
and my environment. And as long as you stay focused on what your leadership
00:58:58.727 --> 00:59:02.687
brand is what your brand if that's what you want to be is just,
00:59:03.727 --> 00:59:08.767
vulnerable, authentic, and driven, and forward-thinking,
00:59:09.027 --> 00:59:15.687
and whatever, whatever it may be, or just stable, and a pillar of consistency,
00:59:15.687 --> 00:59:17.947
and you could rely on that person,
00:59:18.067 --> 00:59:22.667
whatever it is, if you give the people around you that understanding,
00:59:22.667 --> 00:59:25.087
and you stay consistent with that,
00:59:25.247 --> 00:59:30.067
then you're contributing to the best of your ability to your environment, right?
00:59:30.227 --> 00:59:33.387
And that's what we all hope for ourselves and for the people around us.
00:59:33.847 --> 00:59:38.487
Yes, absolutely. I love that. Authenticity and patterns of consistency.
00:59:38.607 --> 00:59:42.487
I mean, we so much want these stable environments to be able to read the room.
00:59:42.547 --> 00:59:45.367
And again, that goes back to clear being kind, right?
00:59:46.127 --> 00:59:50.307
Consistency is that kind of clarity that we all want. Well, Jennifer,
00:59:50.467 --> 00:59:54.087
thank you so much for being on Conflict Managed. What a great conversation.
00:59:54.907 --> 00:59:59.047
Yeah, I'm happy to have been here, Mary. I appreciate you asking me to come.
00:59:59.047 --> 01:00:03.547
And I love watching your podcasts and I will continue to do that.
01:00:03.707 --> 01:00:06.987
It's wonderful what you're doing, what you're adding to the world is wonderful.
01:00:07.287 --> 01:00:09.827
I appreciate you so much. Well, thank you so much. Well, take care.
01:00:10.407 --> 01:00:13.927
Jennifer, thank you so much for being on Conflict Managed. We met a couple of
01:00:13.927 --> 01:00:18.447
years ago at an International Ombuds Association meeting and it's wonderful
01:00:18.447 --> 01:00:22.487
to go to conferences because you get to meet like-minded individuals and people
01:00:22.487 --> 01:00:27.527
who are doing the work as Jennifer really is doing the work to bring about healthier
01:00:27.527 --> 01:00:30.267
work environments. I really appreciate the work that she's doing.
01:00:30.807 --> 01:00:34.407
Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services
01:00:34.407 --> 01:00:35.947
and hosted by me, Merry Brown.
01:00:36.227 --> 01:00:39.027
You can find us online at 3PConflictrestoration.com.
01:00:39.367 --> 01:00:43.147
Come back. We have new episodes every Tuesday. And if you'd like to watch this
01:00:43.147 --> 01:00:47.987
conversation with Jennifer and I, you can find it on YouTube at 3PConflictrestoration.
01:00:48.667 --> 01:00:52.207
If you haven't had a chance to check out my latest book, How to Be Unprofessional
01:00:52.207 --> 01:00:55.847
at Work, Tips to Ensure Failure, it's 80 tips of what not to do and considers
01:00:55.847 --> 01:00:58.727
what we ought to do instead to have healthy work environments.
01:00:59.027 --> 01:01:04.287
If you would like and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen or watch
01:01:04.287 --> 01:01:05.967
it, it really helps us out.
01:01:06.307 --> 01:01:09.627
And remember, conflict is normal and expected.
01:01:10.187 --> 01:01:12.627
Let's deal with it. Until next time, take care.
01:01:15.120 --> 01:01:26.162
Music.