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Welcome everyone to the Community IT Innovators Technology Topics podcast.
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I'm Carolyn Woodard, your host, and today I'm really excited to be talking with Jean Westrick, who is the CEO of TAG.
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Jean, would you like to introduce yourself?
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Thank you so much, Carolyn, and I'm so pleased to be here.
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I am Jean Westrick.
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I um I'm president and CEO of the Technology Association of Grantmakers.
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We have over 400 members, mostly grant grantmakers, and we lead um uh opportunities for those organizations to connect, to learn from one another, and um and to deepen their commitment to advancing technology so that it serves our philanthropic goals.
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So did we talk about like when the pandemic happened the first in 2020?
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I had been um I'd been on vacation actually for the two weeks before that I'd been I was in Argentina.
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So I came back on the Monday, and by Friday, that was Friday the 13th of March.
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Um I'll never forget that date.
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You know, it's like burned in my brain.
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But um,
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So I'd arrived home earlier that week and I was asked, um, I was Director of Strategic Initiatives reporting to the COO, who's now the CEO, at the Chicago Community Trust, to say, we're gonna send everybody home for two weeks.
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Will you go and find out if people have the equipment that they need to work from home?
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So I like went around and talked to 100 staff members and said, Do you have a laptop?
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Do you what do you do exactly?
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You know, like um, and
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There were certain um things that we could not do from home.
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One of the things was cut checks.
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So we had 15,000 paper checks that we printed every year.
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And because of the security around the uh printer, the check printer, um, we couldn't just move it.
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And so what we had to do is we had to figure out like how we're going to reorganize our workflows so that the grants management team could come in on day one and prepare the award letters.
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And then on day two, you'd have the finance person put together the docket.
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And day three, you'd have the receptionists come in and get the checks and the letters and put them in envelopes and send them out.
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So this, and normally we do this twice a week, but we shipped it to once a week in order to um accommodate this new structure so that people could work uh safely.
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But um, it was a real sort of wake-up call that even an organization that at the time had four billion dollars in assets, there were a number of folks who did not have laptops and were not ready to work from home.
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Um,
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And so, you know, we we recognize that everybody needs technology to do their job, even those jobs that you think are are purely administrative, they actually need technology to execute mission.
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And this is something that was near and dear to my heart.
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So then I went um and was charged to develop a um a business continuity plan as well.
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And so um a lot of this is about the systems that we use in order to um really be able to do our work.
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Um, and our nonprofit partners are no different.
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Oh, they have it even more so, I think, in some cases.
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Yeah, when you're more resource constrained and you think about a lot of, isn't it something like 80% or more of nonprofits in the United States are so small, you know, they're one, two, three-person operations, and you they're very resource constrained.
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So their, you know, capacity to work without any IT support is really, you know, they do amazing things all the time.
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But if you're a funder and you're not considering that piece of their ability to do their mission, um, and the strategic thinking around the tech that they're gonna need to do their mission the effectively and reach the most people that they want to reach, that's just a huge blind spot in your funding, I think.
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Uh 100%.
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I mean, I'm I'm ... not to pull on this this pandemic example too much, but if you recall in those early days, there were so many people who found themselves at food banks um who had never been to a food bank before.
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And have you seen some of the footage of like, you know, uh cars upon cars, like trying to get to food banks.
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Well, most food banks are run um with largely volunteer staff.
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Those volunteer staff are often senior citizens who at the time of the pandemic were at most at risk, and um and and they didn't have technology.
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Those uh organizations that were able to do scheduled pickup and and touchless pickups, um, because they had some technology infrastructure would allow people to do that, were able to continue doing their mission.
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Those that didn't have any technology and relied on a volunteer staff that was then now um in a compromise because of a global pandemic, um, were not.
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And so this was really, you know, getting into this digital digital resilience is becoming as essential as financial resilience.
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Um, and it was a capacity issue and and an ability to deliver.
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So, you know, really as I was thinking about this, is that what we're aiming to do is really um uh, you know, restructure the way we think about this.
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It's not administrative infrastructure, it's mission infrastructure, and shifting that sort of um that frame and that narrative, I think is really um, you know, it's gonna be really impactful.
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I hope so.
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And I hope giving foundations and funders some of these examples and tools.
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So it's not just like, oh, you should be funding IT management or IT, but like how, how do you do that?
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So give some ideas and some things that their peers are doing that they might not be aware of.
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I'll share an anecdote as well.
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One of our clients, the Academy of Hope in DC, they're an adult charter school, and they work a lot on workforce development and literacy with the DC adult population, people who want to go back to school or get a credential to get a better job.
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And they
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We had been working with them on a plan for them to be able to support remote learning for their students because they have a lot of working parents.
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It'd be easier for them to have a laptop at home to be able to log into a Zoom class instead of having to physically go to the campus.
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So we already had that plan together.
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And the summer of 2020, they went to their funder and said, you know, what are we going to do in the fall?
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And we've got this plan.
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And the funder said, if you can do it, we'll fund it.
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So they had three months to get support for all of their students to be remote, and they opened in September with all of their students being able to have a laptop and work from home.
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It was very stressful for all of the staff.
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But because they already had that roadmap and that plan, the funder was willing to work with them.
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And I think if they had come in and said, we want to be able to do this, we're gonna start talking to, you know, some technology friends who can help us out with this, their funder would have been really skeptical.
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But having that strategic thinking already in place, the funder was just like, let's do it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think that you're absolutely right that this is um that this um IT management is organizational capacity.
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And we need to really redefine how we think about organizational capacity.
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It is that ability to make long-term plans and to be able to prioritize and be able to think about um creating resilience where you are and being able to deliver your mission in unique ways, despite some of the challenges.
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Can I ask you why why can it be so hard for nonprofits to get funding that supports their IT needs, including IT management?
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So we've just talked about several examples where it seems like a no- brainer.
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So, why what are the barriers?
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Um, I think it comes down to three things.
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So I think number one, I think we've inherited this old, outdated idea of overhead.
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For decades, the nonprofit sector has been encouraged to spend as little money as possible on administration and infrastructure.
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And technology was often viewed as an expense that needed to be minimized rather than an investment that really enables mission.
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And so, you know, while philanthropy has made true uh tremendous progress in moving beyond this overhead myth and move and leaning into trust-based philanthropy and those types of strategies, many funding practices still reflect those old assumptions.
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And so
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The reality is that nonprofits today, every single organization is a technology organization, whether or not we we admit that or not.
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Because whether you're providing housing or healthcare, environmental advocacy, disaster relief, your mission really depends upon secure systems, quality data, reliable communications, and a digital infrastructure to deliver those services.
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Um, so so I think that's the first piece.
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I think number two, funders often see um uh purchasing um technology um as the end goal rather than managing IT as a capacity.
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And so buying um licenses to Microsoft 365 or getting a new CRM is the easy part.
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What is much, much harder is um and more valuable, I would say, is someone who knows how those systems fit together, how to manage uh cybersecurity, how to govern data, um, how to prioritize investments, because you're not going to be able to do everything all at once.
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And so you need to be able to build those roadmaps.
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Um, and you need to be able to make decisions that are gonna actually advance the mission.
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And so, you know, you have to have a good, you know, organizational strategy, and your IT strategy needs to match that.
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What that is, that's IT management.
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Um, yeah, so
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Organizations are not failing because they bought the wrong software, they're struggling because they lack the internal capacity to manage technology strategically.
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And so those are those are two different things.
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Buying the tools is the easy part, managing it is the the harder piece.
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Um,
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I think number three, uh, technology um has become whether or not we like it or not, or recognize it or not, it's it's not simply an IT issue, it's a leadership issue.
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And so we're asking nonprofits to adopt AI responsibly, to protect sensitive constituent data, to defend against cybersecurity attacks, to comply with privacy regulations, to support remote work, to integrate all these increasingly um complex systems and platforms.
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And the platforms that have proliferated um tremendously in the last few years, where we're going in and out of a lot more systems than we ever were before.
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These are not isolated technology projects.
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These are governance questions.
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Um, they're risk management questions, they're organizational leadership challenges.
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And so we expect nonprofits to be able to navigate um all of this without investing in the people on planning needed to do that well.
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Um, and
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So we really need to evolve the question beyond um, how do we buy nonprofits more tech?
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How do we make sure everybody has a laptop?
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Um, and really thinking, how do we build organizations that know how to steward technology well?
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Um
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That's gonna create the resilience, that's gonna create the ability to be opportunistic when when times happen, or when there are new um new challenges to delivering that mission and you're gonna need to um come up with a technology solution in order to keep um being able to serve your mission.
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Um
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So I think it is it's really not about sort of buying the tools, it's about how to steward these tools.
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And that is something that is um much harder to do.
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Do you have any examples of funders or foundations now that are thinking about this and taking this approach to help their nonprofit grantees be better stewards of IT?
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Um absolutely.
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I think there, and there's probably more out here than than what I'm gonna name now.
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But um,
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One example that really comes to mind is the Kauffman Foundation out of Kansas City.
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Um, and I'm gonna say this one because it's it it the innovation isn't is actually remarkably simple because it's not an innovation at all.
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What is happening is that Kaufman is explicitly naming IT planning and cybersecurity as eligible expenses in their capacity building grants.
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They've named it.
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When foundations don't mention technology, um nonprofits can assume that they shouldn't ask for it.
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And so by naming that they support technology planning and cybersecurity and implementation of your CRM or AI readiness as legitimate capacity building investments, that shifts the narrative.
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That changes the conf that conversation.
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And
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What um Kaufman is doing is they're sending a signal that says that technology isn't overhead, it's organizational capacity.
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And that powerful shift uh is is really important so that nonprofits know that they can ask for it.
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Um that's really important.
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Um I think um
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I also appreciate that the Kaufman model does not separate technology from leadership.
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We don't think about it as a back office thing.
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It is really about you know building capacity and it's a leadership um question as opposed to an overhead question or something of that nature.
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So when they fund strategic planning and leadership development, they are also funding data capacity.
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They're also funding technology and how it can enable their mission.
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And those things now can reinforce each other.
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We talk a lot at Community IT about the knowledge that is in the nonprofit.
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Like the people who work at the nonprofit know better than anyone what they do and how they do it and how they could do it.
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And so I think I love the Kaufman example that you gave because it helps to unlock that knowledge and feed it into the technology support that they need to be able to do the things that they want to do.
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Yeah, sometimes you just have to name the things.
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Um and uh and and you know, language is a really powerful, um, is powerful.
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And so when we think about technology as overhead, we're gonna treat it as overhead.
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When we think about it as a mission enabler, we're gonna think about it differently.
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And so I'm I you know I'm I'm
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I'm grateful for those examples that are just recognizing the true um potential that organizations who invest in technology are are more effective.
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Um and um and so we we wanna make sure that we're we're funding organizations so they can be more effective.
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And that includes technology.
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Yeah, yeah, that technology can really unlock a lot of effectiveness.
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Yeah.
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Um,
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What about tech companies and IT services vendors?
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So I think there are a lot of tech companies that have nonprofit um, you know, donation programs, like Microsoft has a discounted license.
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I know Google has discounted licenses also.
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Um, and we kind of I kind of feel like that's like
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I don't want to say it's the least they can do because it is a huge benefit to those nonprofits, but it's kind of the first layer of what you can do.
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Do you have any examples of like a tech company that's doing going a little bit deeper than that?
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Yeah, I think um, and this isn't this isn't uh so much a for-profit, but they do they do serve the nonprofit uh space, is TechSoup and Tech Impact um have come together um and they've partnered to create a virtual um chief technology officer program that's CTO.
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And um what what isn't um particularly interesting is not just the service, but it's the model by which they're doing this.
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For many small nonprofits, um, and most nonprofits are small, you know, we're talking about 90% or more have budgets under a million dollars.
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So they don't have the resources to hire an experienced, you know, chief technology officer or uh even an IT director is simply just not financially viable for them.
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Um
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So instead of um asking nonprofits to build that expertise internally, what TechSoup and Tech Impact have done is really created this fractional executive model, buying that um incredible uh expertise and that experience that um that allows them to do more.
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So, you know,
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Organizations as part of this program receive a technology assessment to really understand what their IT maturity looks like right now?
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Um, how does this um line up to strategic planning?
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What kind of guidance can we give that organization around cybersecurity and managing those complex risks?
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What sort of advice can we give them about budgeting and making sure that there are ways in which we can scaffold the budgets in order to meet the needs and provide that ongoing expert consultation about how you can get more out of your technology, um, and then build that technology roadmap so that you can add your capacity over time and be able to scaffold the various activities in a way that is going to meet your mission now and grow with you over time.
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I think that that is fundamentally different than um traditional technology supports of hiring an MSP.
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Uh uh a managed service provider is great for your help desk and provisioning your laptops and being able to manage your patching and your security um uh needs, uh, that sort of ongoing maintenance stuff that is really critical, but it doesn't provide you that long view of the planning that you really need in order to manage IT effectively.
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And so TechSoup, Tech Impact, what they're doing is helping organizations make better decisions uh, you know, for the long haul, not just fixing the computers that are broken today or or whatever the IT challenges of of the moment are that um would go to an MSP who can help with those types of things.
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Uh,
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But it's really about you know moving, um, moving that maturity along.
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Um, we haven't talked about our white paper, but this is one of the ideas that comes into that is this idea about maturity comes from management.
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Um, and so yes, you do need to be able to be able to service and do maintenance and those types of things, but technology planning, governance, prioritization, you know, figuring out what your security uh program is, managing your vendors, um, those are all uh capabilities that are much um, they're more than just buying a tool.
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They're really about developing the capacity to lead this work effectively.
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Um,
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And so a virtual CTO model really gives those smaller nonprofits access to expertise at a price point they could never achieve individually.
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I think also, too, and I don't know if this is the the case with this particular model, is just that I think when you think about these models, it's more than helping the individual, it's about helping the cohort.
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And so there's lessons that can be applied across the whole um the whole program.
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So these small nonprofits, um, they share in their need for more IT capacity, but they're probably, I would assume, being able to share some lessons across, which will be able to get, you'll be able to scale that impact even further.
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Um, so I I love this idea of building um an ecosystem, ecosystem of digitally resilient nonprofits.
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Um, and then being able to scale that, uh, those innovations across that network is is really powerful.
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Yeah, and I love that price point too, like you were saying, because if you wanted to try and hire a consultant, even just to do an assessment, it's gonna be $50,000, $70,000.
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So this virtual CTO program is much more affordable than that, and it starts with that assessment.
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So you get that as part of being part of the cohort.
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And like we were talking about earlier, this is something that your funder or your donors could fund you to take, be part of this cohort with the CTO, uh virtual CTO.
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So it's a you know, it's building on an expertise that your funder might not have, but pointing you towards something that is, you know, gonna give you a lot of benefit.
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Yeah, I I couldn't I couldn't agree more.
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I want to jump in and just make sure to mention that Community IT is an MSP, but we have, in addition to our help desk, we have the IT Business Manager role.
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Um, because we only work with nonprofits, so we get a lot of clients that come to us who have worked with an MSP that just didn't really understand nonprofits and the the resource constraints and and you know the thinking and the leadership that goes into it, or maybe you know, difficult to challenging.
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Um, so yeah, our IT Business Managers do that role of trying to look beyond the help desk, and figuring out budgeting and strategic planning and all of that for our clients.
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So there are MSPs out there that do that.
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But not most of them.
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No.
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Well, it it it I think you hit on a very uh very important part is that your your partners, your MSP, become an extension of your team in a lot of respects.
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And so you want to make sure that that's a good fit for your needs and what you're what you're trying to do.
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And there is not a uh a one size fits all.
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You want someone who's invested in your success uh because they are going to be a critical part of your team.
00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:08.450
And so um at any rate, I'm glad that Community IT offers both the MSP as well as some of that strategic planning as well.
00:23:08.770 --> 00:23:17.490
Yeah, we really look at ourselves over the 25 years of working with nonprofits, we really have realized that we need to partner with the clients.
00:23:17.490 --> 00:23:26.370
So um, you know, that is looking for a long-term partnership so we can really understand what they're trying to do and figure out the IT that can get them there.
00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:32.850
So, do you want to talk a little bit more about TAG and about the white paper that we have coming out?
00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:34.610
Yes, I'd love to.
00:23:34.610 --> 00:23:41.970
So um, so for your listeners who don't know uh who TAG is, uh TAG is the Technology Association of Grantmakers.
00:23:41.970 --> 00:23:45.330
We're a membership association that serves the philanthropic community.
00:23:45.330 --> 00:23:47.250
Our members are grantmakers.
00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:53.410
Um, and we're super excited to be releasing a white paper with Community IT.
00:23:53.650 --> 00:24:01.890
The paper that we have uh that we have um drafted together is called Growing IT Management Capacity at Nonprofits.
00:24:01.890 --> 00:24:10.050
Um, so again, like you know, you you're hearing that IT management um and that reframe that this is more than just laptops.
00:24:10.050 --> 00:24:12.930
This is about managing your technology environment.
00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:13.570
Um
00:24:13.570 --> 00:24:22.930
And that I white paper, I think, makes a really strong case that nonprofit technology challenges are not about the software or the hardware or the tools.
00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:25.090
They're about that organizational capacity.
00:24:25.090 --> 00:24:25.970
Um, and
00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:48.130
So that paper will explore, you know, why IT management matters, um, what maturity at a nonprofit like IT maturity looks like, um, what are the practical um uh actions nonprofits can take, what can funders do differently, and how technology providers can be stronger partners in building that resilience.
00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:48.930
Um, so
00:24:48.930 --> 00:25:08.530
I think the white paper will um will appeal whether you're a nonprofit executive, um, your technology leader, your grant maker who is uh looking to deepen your support and build capacity amongst your grantees, um, or your technology partner.
00:25:08.530 --> 00:25:19.490
Um, I think uh what what folks will leave with is really practical ideas for strengthening digital capacity amongst the organizations that are doing such important work in our communities.
00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:34.210
You know, again, I feel super strongly about this, and I think that we just need we need to continue to to shape this narrative because it it, you know, I think through this process, it's giving me new ways to talk about this.
00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:35.010
I love it.
00:25:35.010 --> 00:25:35.650
I love it.
00:25:36.050 --> 00:25:36.610
Does that makes sense.
00:25:36.610 --> 00:25:37.810
It's just like that,
00:25:37.810 --> 00:25:37.970
Yeah.
00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:45.010
And I I feel like this is, and like I started, I when I was writing the paper, I was like, I really want to start from a positive place.
00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:54.850
Like, what are the assets that we all have that we bring to this conversation and this conundrum before talking about like what's challenging, what are the barriers and all of that.
00:25:55.010 --> 00:25:56.770
And I feel like that empowerment ...
00:25:56.770 --> 00:26:09.250
because I run into it over and over, like when I'm talking to people at at um at conferences that to fund funders, where it's just like there's a fear about like, oh, I don't, I'm not the IT person.
00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:19.410
So I don't know enough that I can, you know, like write that into the grant or talk to my grantees about it, or you know, like it's just something that makes people nervous.
00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:28.290
Where you're you wouldn't be like, well, I can't help you with your budget because I'm not a CPA, you know, like you're just like, I'll help you with your budget, like you, whatever.
00:26:28.450 --> 00:26:36.530
I think reshifting this to like, you know, it's it's organizational capacity, yeah, not not software.
00:26:36.530 --> 00:26:45.330
I I mean, I I've managed a lot of big technology projects, and I'm an I I'm considering myself an accidental techie.
00:26:45.330 --> 00:26:49.490
I'm not, I'm not uh, you know, I'm I don't I don't program.
00:26:49.490 --> 00:26:53.010
I don't I'm not a you know a data architect.
00:26:53.010 --> 00:26:54.850
I don't that's not my work.
00:26:54.850 --> 00:26:58.450
My work is connecting the technology to the business need, right?
00:26:58.450 --> 00:26:59.330
What is the business need?
00:26:59.650 --> 00:27:02.050
Finding the people to do the tech, like anything.
00:27:02.050 --> 00:27:03.730
You're like, I need that done.
00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:06.770
Who do I know or who do I hire that does it?
00:27:06.770 --> 00:27:08.370
Yeah, you know, yeah.
00:27:09.010 --> 00:27:14.130
So if you're sit sitting with me long enough, you'll hear me say, IT needs friends and translators.
00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:18.770
And you know, that is that's you know, I feel strongly about that.
00:27:18.770 --> 00:27:29.970
Is it's like, you know, organizations they they treat IT as a back office thing, and those staff don't feel empowered that they should have a seat at the strategy table.
00:27:30.690 --> 00:27:36.370
And technology, when it's when it's wielded strategically, is powerful.
00:27:36.370 --> 00:27:41.650
It it unlocks a lot of impact that couldn't be possible without it.
00:27:41.650 --> 00:27:56.210
And so, you know, we want to make sure that we're building bridges across organizations so that that that that whatever technology technologist um or technology um knowledge that you have internally that you're tapping on effectively.
00:27:56.370 --> 00:28:03.810
But then being able to translate it into the business need and be able to articulate it in terms of what your mission is.
00:28:03.810 --> 00:28:08.450
That is um that's not a conversation about which CRM we should buy.
00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:19.170
I I I don't have a horse in that game, but what I do have a vested interest in is making sure that organizations are able to serve their mission.
00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:31.250
And as we, you know, as we sort of talked about this at the top of this hour, is that, you know, this this mission is living in a time where change is happening faster and faster.
00:28:31.250 --> 00:28:39.090
And organizations are going to need to develop a certain amount of resiliency in order to navigate some of this change that is happening.
00:28:39.090 --> 00:28:48.690
Things that you didn't plan for, um, whether it's a global pandemic or it's a natural disaster, those are the types of things that we need to be prepared for.
00:28:48.690 --> 00:28:50.130
Um and
00:28:50.130 --> 00:29:11.170
Having an ability to connect how technology may be able to add that resiliency and add that capability that didn't exist, so that you can continue to serve the vulnerable people that you do every day with your mission without having to be dogged down by um outdated systems or ineffective technology tools.
00:29:11.490 --> 00:29:11.730
Yeah.
00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:32.530
And I think in addition to that, we work in communities with constituents that expect technology to work and they expect to be able to do things with us as a nonprofit, you know, a food bank or an education nonprofit or advocacy nonprofit that utilizes technology that they're comfortable with.
00:29:32.770 --> 00:29:39.570
And if you can't or don't, or you know, are doing something on paper still, the
00:29:39.570 --> 00:29:43.250
The speed by which we're able to serve our community matters.
00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:47.330
Um and so technology can certainly make things more efficient in that way.
00:29:47.330 --> 00:29:53.570
Uh, but also too, I think um, you know, we want to have tools that are meeting people where they're at.
00:29:53.570 --> 00:29:53.970
I mean,
00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:59.250
I'm a big proponent in talking about human-centered design and those tools with community.
00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:07.970
Um, because if that's how you're delivering your mission, um, you you want to make sure that you're actually solving the real problems that that you're trying to solve for.
00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:23.890
Um, and so, you know, designing tools with community instead of at community or for community, um, with it, with community makes uh a lot more sense in the long term because it's an extension of how you deliver a mission.
00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:25.570
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:30:25.570 --> 00:30:28.370
Jean, I want to thank you so much for your time today.
00:30:28.370 --> 00:30:30.130
I loved this conversation.
00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:32.930
It's something I'm passionate about and you're passionate about.
00:30:32.930 --> 00:30:36.690
So thank you so much for coming to talk to us about it today.
00:30:37.090 --> 00:30:37.970
Thank you so much.
00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:40.850
I I really appreciated this conversation too.
00:30:40.850 --> 00:30:41.490
Um,
00:30:41.490 --> 00:30:43.250
Technology is a tool.
00:30:43.250 --> 00:30:45.330
It does not create impact on its own.
00:30:45.330 --> 00:30:48.850
It's up to us, the humans who are managing that tool.
00:30:48.850 --> 00:30:55.330
Um, it's it's the people, it's the governance, it's that thoughtful stewardship that um that really matters.
00:30:55.330 --> 00:31:05.250
And so if we want stronger nonprofits, we not not only need to invest in the tools that they use, but their ability to use them um effectively.
00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:13.810
And so um so I'm excited about this conversation, um, excited about this white paper and continuing to um help lift this up as an important issue.
00:00:22.449 --> 00:00:27.009
Welcome everyone to the Community IT Innovators Technology Topics podcast.
00:00:27.009 --> 00:00:34.369
I'm Carolyn Woodard, your host, and today I'm really excited to be talking with Jean Westrick, who is the CEO of TAG.
00:00:34.369 --> 00:00:36.850
Jean, would you like to introduce yourself?
00:00:37.489 --> 00:00:40.530
Thank you so much, Carolyn, and I'm so pleased to be here.
00:00:40.530 --> 00:00:42.450
I am Jean Westrick.
00:00:42.450 --> 00:00:47.489
I um I'm president and CEO of the Technology Association of Grantmakers.
00:00:47.489 --> 00:01:06.849
We have over 400 members, mostly grant grantmakers, and we lead um uh opportunities for those organizations to connect, to learn from one another, and um and to deepen their commitment to advancing technology so that it serves our philanthropic goals.
00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:13.409
So did we talk about like when the pandemic happened the first in 2020?
00:01:13.409 --> 00:01:19.090
I had been um I'd been on vacation actually for the two weeks before that I'd been I was in Argentina.
00:01:19.090 --> 00:01:24.049
So I came back on the Monday, and by Friday, that was Friday the 13th of March.
00:01:24.049 --> 00:01:25.730
Um I'll never forget that date.
00:01:25.730 --> 00:01:27.170
You know, it's like burned in my brain.
00:01:27.170 --> 00:01:27.729
But um,
00:01:27.729 --> 00:01:43.729
So I'd arrived home earlier that week and I was asked, um, I was Director of Strategic Initiatives reporting to the COO, who's now the CEO, at the Chicago Community Trust, to say, we're gonna send everybody home for two weeks.
00:01:43.729 --> 00:01:51.250
Will you go and find out if people have the equipment that they need to work from home?
00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:56.289
So I like went around and talked to 100 staff members and said, Do you have a laptop?
00:01:56.289 --> 00:01:57.729
Do you what do you do exactly?
00:01:57.729 --> 00:01:59.489
You know, like um, and
00:01:59.489 --> 00:02:03.810
There were certain um things that we could not do from home.
00:02:03.810 --> 00:02:06.049
One of the things was cut checks.
00:02:06.049 --> 00:02:11.490
So we had 15,000 paper checks that we printed every year.
00:02:11.490 --> 00:02:18.849
And because of the security around the uh printer, the check printer, um, we couldn't just move it.
00:02:18.849 --> 00:02:30.370
And so what we had to do is we had to figure out like how we're going to reorganize our workflows so that the grants management team could come in on day one and prepare the award letters.
00:02:30.370 --> 00:02:34.689
And then on day two, you'd have the finance person put together the docket.
00:02:34.689 --> 00:02:41.490
And day three, you'd have the receptionists come in and get the checks and the letters and put them in envelopes and send them out.
00:02:41.490 --> 00:02:52.210
So this, and normally we do this twice a week, but we shipped it to once a week in order to um accommodate this new structure so that people could work uh safely.
00:02:52.530 --> 00:03:05.650
But um, it was a real sort of wake-up call that even an organization that at the time had four billion dollars in assets, there were a number of folks who did not have laptops and were not ready to work from home.
00:03:05.650 --> 00:03:06.289
Um,
00:03:06.289 --> 00:03:18.530
And so, you know, we we recognize that everybody needs technology to do their job, even those jobs that you think are are purely administrative, they actually need technology to execute mission.
00:03:18.689 --> 00:03:21.329
And this is something that was near and dear to my heart.
00:03:21.329 --> 00:03:27.169
So then I went um and was charged to develop a um a business continuity plan as well.
00:03:27.169 --> 00:03:37.169
And so um a lot of this is about the systems that we use in order to um really be able to do our work.
00:03:37.169 --> 00:03:40.449
Um, and our nonprofit partners are no different.
00:03:40.930 --> 00:03:44.530
Oh, they have it even more so, I think, in some cases.
00:03:44.530 --> 00:04:01.490
Yeah, when you're more resource constrained and you think about a lot of, isn't it something like 80% or more of nonprofits in the United States are so small, you know, they're one, two, three-person operations, and you they're very resource constrained.
00:04:01.569 --> 00:04:11.009
So their, you know, capacity to work without any IT support is really, you know, they do amazing things all the time.
00:04:11.009 --> 00:04:29.569
But if you're a funder and you're not considering that piece of their ability to do their mission, um, and the strategic thinking around the tech that they're gonna need to do their mission the effectively and reach the most people that they want to reach, that's just a huge blind spot in your funding, I think.
00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:30.769
Uh 100%.
00:04:30.769 --> 00:04:44.529
I mean, I'm I'm ... not to pull on this this pandemic example too much, but if you recall in those early days, there were so many people who found themselves at food banks um who had never been to a food bank before.
00:04:44.529 --> 00:04:52.129
And have you seen some of the footage of like, you know, uh cars upon cars, like trying to get to food banks.
00:04:52.290 --> 00:04:56.769
Well, most food banks are run um with largely volunteer staff.
00:04:56.769 --> 00:05:06.129
Those volunteer staff are often senior citizens who at the time of the pandemic were at most at risk, and um and and they didn't have technology.
00:05:06.129 --> 00:05:20.850
Those uh organizations that were able to do scheduled pickup and and touchless pickups, um, because they had some technology infrastructure would allow people to do that, were able to continue doing their mission.
00:05:21.089 --> 00:05:31.409
Those that didn't have any technology and relied on a volunteer staff that was then now um in a compromise because of a global pandemic, um, were not.
00:05:31.730 --> 00:05:39.969
And so this was really, you know, getting into this digital digital resilience is becoming as essential as financial resilience.
00:05:39.969 --> 00:05:43.490
Um, and it was a capacity issue and and an ability to deliver.
00:05:43.649 --> 00:05:53.329
So, you know, really as I was thinking about this, is that what we're aiming to do is really um uh, you know, restructure the way we think about this.
00:05:53.329 --> 00:06:06.050
It's not administrative infrastructure, it's mission infrastructure, and shifting that sort of um that frame and that narrative, I think is really um, you know, it's gonna be really impactful.
00:06:06.370 --> 00:06:07.009
I hope so.
00:06:07.009 --> 00:06:12.529
And I hope giving foundations and funders some of these examples and tools.
00:06:12.529 --> 00:06:19.889
So it's not just like, oh, you should be funding IT management or IT, but like how, how do you do that?
00:06:19.889 --> 00:06:24.449
So give some ideas and some things that their peers are doing that they might not be aware of.
00:06:24.689 --> 00:06:26.689
I'll share an anecdote as well.
00:06:26.689 --> 00:06:42.370
One of our clients, the Academy of Hope in DC, they're an adult charter school, and they work a lot on workforce development and literacy with the DC adult population, people who want to go back to school or get a credential to get a better job.
00:06:42.370 --> 00:06:43.250
And they
00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:51.490
We had been working with them on a plan for them to be able to support remote learning for their students because they have a lot of working parents.
00:06:51.490 --> 00:06:59.329
It'd be easier for them to have a laptop at home to be able to log into a Zoom class instead of having to physically go to the campus.
00:06:59.329 --> 00:07:01.969
So we already had that plan together.
00:07:02.290 --> 00:07:08.769
And the summer of 2020, they went to their funder and said, you know, what are we going to do in the fall?
00:07:08.769 --> 00:07:10.290
And we've got this plan.
00:07:10.290 --> 00:07:13.490
And the funder said, if you can do it, we'll fund it.
00:07:13.810 --> 00:07:24.930
So they had three months to get support for all of their students to be remote, and they opened in September with all of their students being able to have a laptop and work from home.
00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:28.930
It was very stressful for all of the staff.
00:07:29.250 --> 00:07:34.050
But because they already had that roadmap and that plan, the funder was willing to work with them.
00:07:34.050 --> 00:07:45.329
And I think if they had come in and said, we want to be able to do this, we're gonna start talking to, you know, some technology friends who can help us out with this, their funder would have been really skeptical.
00:07:45.329 --> 00:07:50.610
But having that strategic thinking already in place, the funder was just like, let's do it.
00:07:50.930 --> 00:07:51.969
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:51.969 --> 00:07:59.409
I think that you're absolutely right that this is um that this um IT management is organizational capacity.
00:07:59.409 --> 00:08:04.529
And we need to really redefine how we think about organizational capacity.
00:08:04.529 --> 00:08:21.649
It is that ability to make long-term plans and to be able to prioritize and be able to think about um creating resilience where you are and being able to deliver your mission in unique ways, despite some of the challenges.
00:08:21.969 --> 00:08:32.769
Can I ask you why why can it be so hard for nonprofits to get funding that supports their IT needs, including IT management?
00:08:32.769 --> 00:08:37.730
So we've just talked about several examples where it seems like a no- brainer.
00:08:37.730 --> 00:08:40.050
So, why what are the barriers?
00:08:40.450 --> 00:08:42.769
Um, I think it comes down to three things.
00:08:43.090 --> 00:08:49.250
So I think number one, I think we've inherited this old, outdated idea of overhead.
00:08:49.250 --> 00:08:56.450
For decades, the nonprofit sector has been encouraged to spend as little money as possible on administration and infrastructure.
00:08:56.450 --> 00:09:04.129
And technology was often viewed as an expense that needed to be minimized rather than an investment that really enables mission.
00:09:04.289 --> 00:09:20.529
And so, you know, while philanthropy has made true uh tremendous progress in moving beyond this overhead myth and move and leaning into trust-based philanthropy and those types of strategies, many funding practices still reflect those old assumptions.
00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:21.330
And so
00:09:21.330 --> 00:09:29.169
The reality is that nonprofits today, every single organization is a technology organization, whether or not we we admit that or not.
00:09:29.169 --> 00:09:47.330
Because whether you're providing housing or healthcare, environmental advocacy, disaster relief, your mission really depends upon secure systems, quality data, reliable communications, and a digital infrastructure to deliver those services.
00:09:47.330 --> 00:09:49.730
Um, so so I think that's the first piece.
00:09:49.889 --> 00:10:03.090
I think number two, funders often see um uh purchasing um technology um as the end goal rather than managing IT as a capacity.
00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:10.850
And so buying um licenses to Microsoft 365 or getting a new CRM is the easy part.
00:10:10.850 --> 00:10:28.049
What is much, much harder is um and more valuable, I would say, is someone who knows how those systems fit together, how to manage uh cybersecurity, how to govern data, um, how to prioritize investments, because you're not going to be able to do everything all at once.
00:10:28.049 --> 00:10:30.370
And so you need to be able to build those roadmaps.
00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:34.689
Um, and you need to be able to make decisions that are gonna actually advance the mission.
00:10:34.850 --> 00:10:41.409
And so, you know, you have to have a good, you know, organizational strategy, and your IT strategy needs to match that.
00:10:41.409 --> 00:10:44.370
What that is, that's IT management.
00:10:44.370 --> 00:10:46.049
Um, yeah, so
00:10:46.049 --> 00:10:55.169
Organizations are not failing because they bought the wrong software, they're struggling because they lack the internal capacity to manage technology strategically.
00:10:55.169 --> 00:10:57.570
And so those are those are two different things.
00:10:57.570 --> 00:11:01.970
Buying the tools is the easy part, managing it is the the harder piece.
00:11:01.970 --> 00:11:02.850
Um,
00:11:02.850 --> 00:11:14.529
I think number three, uh, technology um has become whether or not we like it or not, or recognize it or not, it's it's not simply an IT issue, it's a leadership issue.
00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:33.330
And so we're asking nonprofits to adopt AI responsibly, to protect sensitive constituent data, to defend against cybersecurity attacks, to comply with privacy regulations, to support remote work, to integrate all these increasingly um complex systems and platforms.
00:11:33.330 --> 00:11:43.090
And the platforms that have proliferated um tremendously in the last few years, where we're going in and out of a lot more systems than we ever were before.
00:11:43.409 --> 00:11:46.129
These are not isolated technology projects.
00:11:46.129 --> 00:11:47.970
These are governance questions.
00:11:47.970 --> 00:11:52.529
Um, they're risk management questions, they're organizational leadership challenges.
00:11:52.529 --> 00:12:03.090
And so we expect nonprofits to be able to navigate um all of this without investing in the people on planning needed to do that well.
00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:04.529
Um, and
00:12:04.529 --> 00:12:11.169
So we really need to evolve the question beyond um, how do we buy nonprofits more tech?
00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:13.649
How do we make sure everybody has a laptop?
00:12:13.649 --> 00:12:19.250
Um, and really thinking, how do we build organizations that know how to steward technology well?
00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:19.970
Um
00:12:19.970 --> 00:12:37.409
That's gonna create the resilience, that's gonna create the ability to be opportunistic when when times happen, or when there are new um new challenges to delivering that mission and you're gonna need to um come up with a technology solution in order to keep um being able to serve your mission.
00:12:37.409 --> 00:12:37.809
Um
00:12:37.809 --> 00:12:43.970
So I think it is it's really not about sort of buying the tools, it's about how to steward these tools.
00:12:43.970 --> 00:12:48.210
And that is something that is um much harder to do.
00:12:48.850 --> 00:13:02.049
Do you have any examples of funders or foundations now that are thinking about this and taking this approach to help their nonprofit grantees be better stewards of IT?
00:13:02.769 --> 00:13:03.649
Um absolutely.
00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:07.570
I think there, and there's probably more out here than than what I'm gonna name now.
00:13:07.570 --> 00:13:08.289
But um,
00:13:08.289 --> 00:13:12.850
One example that really comes to mind is the Kauffman Foundation out of Kansas City.
00:13:12.850 --> 00:13:22.929
Um, and I'm gonna say this one because it's it it the innovation isn't is actually remarkably simple because it's not an innovation at all.
00:13:22.929 --> 00:13:32.450
What is happening is that Kaufman is explicitly naming IT planning and cybersecurity as eligible expenses in their capacity building grants.
00:13:32.450 --> 00:13:33.889
They've named it.
00:13:34.529 --> 00:13:40.529
When foundations don't mention technology, um nonprofits can assume that they shouldn't ask for it.
00:13:40.529 --> 00:13:54.689
And so by naming that they support technology planning and cybersecurity and implementation of your CRM or AI readiness as legitimate capacity building investments, that shifts the narrative.
00:13:54.689 --> 00:13:57.169
That changes the conf that conversation.
00:13:57.169 --> 00:13:57.730
And
00:13:57.730 --> 00:14:05.649
What um Kaufman is doing is they're sending a signal that says that technology isn't overhead, it's organizational capacity.
00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:13.409
And that powerful shift uh is is really important so that nonprofits know that they can ask for it.
00:14:13.409 --> 00:14:15.970
Um that's really important.
00:14:15.970 --> 00:14:18.529
Um I think um
00:14:18.529 --> 00:14:23.649
I also appreciate that the Kaufman model does not separate technology from leadership.
00:14:23.649 --> 00:14:26.049
We don't think about it as a back office thing.
00:14:26.049 --> 00:14:35.809
It is really about you know building capacity and it's a leadership um question as opposed to an overhead question or something of that nature.
00:14:35.809 --> 00:14:41.889
So when they fund strategic planning and leadership development, they are also funding data capacity.
00:14:41.889 --> 00:14:45.490
They're also funding technology and how it can enable their mission.
00:14:45.490 --> 00:14:48.210
And those things now can reinforce each other.
00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:56.529
We talk a lot at Community IT about the knowledge that is in the nonprofit.
00:14:56.529 --> 00:15:04.289
Like the people who work at the nonprofit know better than anyone what they do and how they do it and how they could do it.
00:15:04.289 --> 00:15:17.250
And so I think I love the Kaufman example that you gave because it helps to unlock that knowledge and feed it into the technology support that they need to be able to do the things that they want to do.
00:15:17.570 --> 00:15:20.049
Yeah, sometimes you just have to name the things.
00:15:20.049 --> 00:15:26.370
Um and uh and and you know, language is a really powerful, um, is powerful.
00:15:26.370 --> 00:15:30.689
And so when we think about technology as overhead, we're gonna treat it as overhead.
00:15:30.689 --> 00:15:34.289
When we think about it as a mission enabler, we're gonna think about it differently.
00:15:34.289 --> 00:15:36.769
And so I'm I you know I'm I'm
00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:46.529
I'm grateful for those examples that are just recognizing the true um potential that organizations who invest in technology are are more effective.
00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:54.210
Um and um and so we we wanna make sure that we're we're funding organizations so they can be more effective.
00:15:54.210 --> 00:15:55.889
And that includes technology.
00:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.129
Yeah, yeah, that technology can really unlock a lot of effectiveness.
00:16:00.129 --> 00:16:00.610
Yeah.
00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:01.169
Um,
00:16:01.169 --> 00:16:05.009
What about tech companies and IT services vendors?
00:16:05.009 --> 00:16:14.929
So I think there are a lot of tech companies that have nonprofit um, you know, donation programs, like Microsoft has a discounted license.
00:16:14.929 --> 00:16:17.889
I know Google has discounted licenses also.
00:16:17.889 --> 00:16:21.409
Um, and we kind of I kind of feel like that's like
00:16:21.409 --> 00:16:29.409
I don't want to say it's the least they can do because it is a huge benefit to those nonprofits, but it's kind of the first layer of what you can do.
00:16:29.409 --> 00:16:35.250
Do you have any examples of like a tech company that's doing going a little bit deeper than that?
00:16:35.970 --> 00:16:53.809
Yeah, I think um, and this isn't this isn't uh so much a for-profit, but they do they do serve the nonprofit uh space, is TechSoup and Tech Impact um have come together um and they've partnered to create a virtual um chief technology officer program that's CTO.
00:16:54.370 --> 00:17:03.009
And um what what isn't um particularly interesting is not just the service, but it's the model by which they're doing this.
00:17:03.009 --> 00:17:13.650
For many small nonprofits, um, and most nonprofits are small, you know, we're talking about 90% or more have budgets under a million dollars.
00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:26.130
So they don't have the resources to hire an experienced, you know, chief technology officer or uh even an IT director is simply just not financially viable for them.
00:17:26.130 --> 00:17:26.770
Um
00:17:26.770 --> 00:17:47.890
So instead of um asking nonprofits to build that expertise internally, what TechSoup and Tech Impact have done is really created this fractional executive model, buying that um incredible uh expertise and that experience that um that allows them to do more.
00:17:47.890 --> 00:17:49.090
So, you know,
00:17:49.090 --> 00:17:56.210
Organizations as part of this program receive a technology assessment to really understand what their IT maturity looks like right now?
00:17:56.210 --> 00:18:00.450
Um, how does this um line up to strategic planning?
00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:06.530
What kind of guidance can we give that organization around cybersecurity and managing those complex risks?
00:18:06.530 --> 00:18:37.170
What sort of advice can we give them about budgeting and making sure that there are ways in which we can scaffold the budgets in order to meet the needs and provide that ongoing expert consultation about how you can get more out of your technology, um, and then build that technology roadmap so that you can add your capacity over time and be able to scaffold the various activities in a way that is going to meet your mission now and grow with you over time.
00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:44.930
I think that that is fundamentally different than um traditional technology supports of hiring an MSP.
00:18:44.930 --> 00:19:07.410
Uh uh a managed service provider is great for your help desk and provisioning your laptops and being able to manage your patching and your security um uh needs, uh, that sort of ongoing maintenance stuff that is really critical, but it doesn't provide you that long view of the planning that you really need in order to manage IT effectively.
00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:24.690
And so TechSoup, Tech Impact, what they're doing is helping organizations make better decisions uh, you know, for the long haul, not just fixing the computers that are broken today or or whatever the IT challenges of of the moment are that um would go to an MSP who can help with those types of things.
00:19:24.690 --> 00:19:25.090
Uh,
00:19:25.090 --> 00:19:29.970
But it's really about you know moving, um, moving that maturity along.
00:19:29.970 --> 00:19:40.130
Um, we haven't talked about our white paper, but this is one of the ideas that comes into that is this idea about maturity comes from management.
00:19:40.130 --> 00:20:02.290
Um, and so yes, you do need to be able to be able to service and do maintenance and those types of things, but technology planning, governance, prioritization, you know, figuring out what your security uh program is, managing your vendors, um, those are all uh capabilities that are much um, they're more than just buying a tool.
00:20:02.290 --> 00:20:08.050
They're really about developing the capacity to lead this work effectively.
00:20:08.050 --> 00:20:08.450
Um,
00:20:08.450 --> 00:20:18.610
And so a virtual CTO model really gives those smaller nonprofits access to expertise at a price point they could never achieve individually.
00:20:18.850 --> 00:20:30.130
I think also, too, and I don't know if this is the the case with this particular model, is just that I think when you think about these models, it's more than helping the individual, it's about helping the cohort.
00:20:30.130 --> 00:20:35.250
And so there's lessons that can be applied across the whole um the whole program.
00:20:35.250 --> 00:20:49.410
So these small nonprofits, um, they share in their need for more IT capacity, but they're probably, I would assume, being able to share some lessons across, which will be able to get, you'll be able to scale that impact even further.
00:20:49.410 --> 00:20:58.130
Um, so I I love this idea of building um an ecosystem, ecosystem of digitally resilient nonprofits.
00:20:58.130 --> 00:21:04.050
Um, and then being able to scale that, uh, those innovations across that network is is really powerful.
00:21:04.370 --> 00:21:13.890
Yeah, and I love that price point too, like you were saying, because if you wanted to try and hire a consultant, even just to do an assessment, it's gonna be $50,000, $70,000.
00:21:13.890 --> 00:21:21.330
So this virtual CTO program is much more affordable than that, and it starts with that assessment.
00:21:21.330 --> 00:21:24.770
So you get that as part of being part of the cohort.
00:21:24.770 --> 00:21:35.970
And like we were talking about earlier, this is something that your funder or your donors could fund you to take, be part of this cohort with the CTO, uh virtual CTO.
00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:45.250
So it's a you know, it's building on an expertise that your funder might not have, but pointing you towards something that is, you know, gonna give you a lot of benefit.
00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:47.970
Yeah, I I couldn't I couldn't agree more.
00:21:48.370 --> 00:21:59.010
I want to jump in and just make sure to mention that Community IT is an MSP, but we have, in addition to our help desk, we have the IT Business Manager role.
00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:16.290
Um, because we only work with nonprofits, so we get a lot of clients that come to us who have worked with an MSP that just didn't really understand nonprofits and the the resource constraints and and you know the thinking and the leadership that goes into it, or maybe you know, difficult to challenging.
00:22:16.290 --> 00:22:27.250
Um, so yeah, our IT Business Managers do that role of trying to look beyond the help desk, and figuring out budgeting and strategic planning and all of that for our clients.
00:22:27.250 --> 00:22:29.730
So there are MSPs out there that do that.
00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:31.650
But not most of them.
00:22:31.650 --> 00:22:32.290
No.
00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:44.210
Well, it it it I think you hit on a very uh very important part is that your your partners, your MSP, become an extension of your team in a lot of respects.
00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:50.050
And so you want to make sure that that's a good fit for your needs and what you're what you're trying to do.
00:22:50.050 --> 00:22:53.170
And there is not a uh a one size fits all.
00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:59.970
You want someone who's invested in your success uh because they are going to be a critical part of your team.
00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:08.450
And so um at any rate, I'm glad that Community IT offers both the MSP as well as some of that strategic planning as well.
00:23:08.770 --> 00:23:17.490
Yeah, we really look at ourselves over the 25 years of working with nonprofits, we really have realized that we need to partner with the clients.
00:23:17.490 --> 00:23:26.370
So um, you know, that is looking for a long-term partnership so we can really understand what they're trying to do and figure out the IT that can get them there.
00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:32.850
So, do you want to talk a little bit more about TAG and about the white paper that we have coming out?
00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:34.610
Yes, I'd love to.
00:23:34.610 --> 00:23:41.970
So um, so for your listeners who don't know uh who TAG is, uh TAG is the Technology Association of Grantmakers.
00:23:41.970 --> 00:23:45.330
We're a membership association that serves the philanthropic community.
00:23:45.330 --> 00:23:47.250
Our members are grantmakers.
00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:53.410
Um, and we're super excited to be releasing a white paper with Community IT.
00:23:53.650 --> 00:24:01.890
The paper that we have uh that we have um drafted together is called Growing IT Management Capacity at Nonprofits.
00:24:01.890 --> 00:24:10.050
Um, so again, like you know, you you're hearing that IT management um and that reframe that this is more than just laptops.
00:24:10.050 --> 00:24:12.930
This is about managing your technology environment.
00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:13.570
Um
00:24:13.570 --> 00:24:22.930
And that I white paper, I think, makes a really strong case that nonprofit technology challenges are not about the software or the hardware or the tools.
00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:25.090
They're about that organizational capacity.
00:24:25.090 --> 00:24:25.970
Um, and
00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:48.130
So that paper will explore, you know, why IT management matters, um, what maturity at a nonprofit like IT maturity looks like, um, what are the practical um uh actions nonprofits can take, what can funders do differently, and how technology providers can be stronger partners in building that resilience.
00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:48.930
Um, so
00:24:48.930 --> 00:25:08.530
I think the white paper will um will appeal whether you're a nonprofit executive, um, your technology leader, your grant maker who is uh looking to deepen your support and build capacity amongst your grantees, um, or your technology partner.
00:25:08.530 --> 00:25:19.490
Um, I think uh what what folks will leave with is really practical ideas for strengthening digital capacity amongst the organizations that are doing such important work in our communities.
00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:34.210
You know, again, I feel super strongly about this, and I think that we just need we need to continue to to shape this narrative because it it, you know, I think through this process, it's giving me new ways to talk about this.
00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:35.010
I love it.
00:25:35.010 --> 00:25:35.650
I love it.
00:25:36.050 --> 00:25:36.610
Does that makes sense.
00:25:36.610 --> 00:25:37.810
It's just like that,
00:25:37.810 --> 00:25:37.970
Yeah.
00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:45.010
And I I feel like this is, and like I started, I when I was writing the paper, I was like, I really want to start from a positive place.
00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:54.850
Like, what are the assets that we all have that we bring to this conversation and this conundrum before talking about like what's challenging, what are the barriers and all of that.
00:25:55.010 --> 00:25:56.770
And I feel like that empowerment ...
00:25:56.770 --> 00:26:09.250
because I run into it over and over, like when I'm talking to people at at um at conferences that to fund funders, where it's just like there's a fear about like, oh, I don't, I'm not the IT person.
00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:19.410
So I don't know enough that I can, you know, like write that into the grant or talk to my grantees about it, or you know, like it's just something that makes people nervous.
00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:28.290
Where you're you wouldn't be like, well, I can't help you with your budget because I'm not a CPA, you know, like you're just like, I'll help you with your budget, like you, whatever.
00:26:28.450 --> 00:26:36.530
I think reshifting this to like, you know, it's it's organizational capacity, yeah, not not software.
00:26:36.530 --> 00:26:45.330
I I mean, I I've managed a lot of big technology projects, and I'm an I I'm considering myself an accidental techie.
00:26:45.330 --> 00:26:49.490
I'm not, I'm not uh, you know, I'm I don't I don't program.
00:26:49.490 --> 00:26:53.010
I don't I'm not a you know a data architect.
00:26:53.010 --> 00:26:54.850
I don't that's not my work.
00:26:54.850 --> 00:26:58.450
My work is connecting the technology to the business need, right?
00:26:58.450 --> 00:26:59.330
What is the business need?
00:26:59.650 --> 00:27:02.050
Finding the people to do the tech, like anything.
00:27:02.050 --> 00:27:03.730
You're like, I need that done.
00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:06.770
Who do I know or who do I hire that does it?
00:27:06.770 --> 00:27:08.370
Yeah, you know, yeah.
00:27:09.010 --> 00:27:14.130
So if you're sit sitting with me long enough, you'll hear me say, IT needs friends and translators.
00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:18.770
And you know, that is that's you know, I feel strongly about that.
00:27:18.770 --> 00:27:29.970
Is it's like, you know, organizations they they treat IT as a back office thing, and those staff don't feel empowered that they should have a seat at the strategy table.
00:27:30.690 --> 00:27:36.370
And technology, when it's when it's wielded strategically, is powerful.
00:27:36.370 --> 00:27:41.650
It it unlocks a lot of impact that couldn't be possible without it.
00:27:41.650 --> 00:27:56.210
And so, you know, we want to make sure that we're building bridges across organizations so that that that that whatever technology technologist um or technology um knowledge that you have internally that you're tapping on effectively.
00:27:56.370 --> 00:28:03.810
But then being able to translate it into the business need and be able to articulate it in terms of what your mission is.
00:28:03.810 --> 00:28:08.450
That is um that's not a conversation about which CRM we should buy.
00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:19.170
I I I don't have a horse in that game, but what I do have a vested interest in is making sure that organizations are able to serve their mission.
00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:31.250
And as we, you know, as we sort of talked about this at the top of this hour, is that, you know, this this mission is living in a time where change is happening faster and faster.
00:28:31.250 --> 00:28:39.090
And organizations are going to need to develop a certain amount of resiliency in order to navigate some of this change that is happening.
00:28:39.090 --> 00:28:48.690
Things that you didn't plan for, um, whether it's a global pandemic or it's a natural disaster, those are the types of things that we need to be prepared for.
00:28:48.690 --> 00:28:50.130
Um and
00:28:50.130 --> 00:29:11.170
Having an ability to connect how technology may be able to add that resiliency and add that capability that didn't exist, so that you can continue to serve the vulnerable people that you do every day with your mission without having to be dogged down by um outdated systems or ineffective technology tools.
00:29:11.490 --> 00:29:11.730
Yeah.
00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:32.530
And I think in addition to that, we work in communities with constituents that expect technology to work and they expect to be able to do things with us as a nonprofit, you know, a food bank or an education nonprofit or advocacy nonprofit that utilizes technology that they're comfortable with.
00:29:32.770 --> 00:29:39.570
And if you can't or don't, or you know, are doing something on paper still, the
00:29:39.570 --> 00:29:43.250
The speed by which we're able to serve our community matters.
00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:47.330
Um and so technology can certainly make things more efficient in that way.
00:29:47.330 --> 00:29:53.570
Uh, but also too, I think um, you know, we want to have tools that are meeting people where they're at.
00:29:53.570 --> 00:29:53.970
I mean,
00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:59.250
I'm a big proponent in talking about human-centered design and those tools with community.
00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:07.970
Um, because if that's how you're delivering your mission, um, you you want to make sure that you're actually solving the real problems that that you're trying to solve for.
00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:23.890
Um, and so, you know, designing tools with community instead of at community or for community, um, with it, with community makes uh a lot more sense in the long term because it's an extension of how you deliver a mission.
00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:25.570
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:30:25.570 --> 00:30:28.370
Jean, I want to thank you so much for your time today.
00:30:28.370 --> 00:30:30.130
I loved this conversation.
00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:32.930
It's something I'm passionate about and you're passionate about.
00:30:32.930 --> 00:30:36.690
So thank you so much for coming to talk to us about it today.
00:30:37.090 --> 00:30:37.970
Thank you so much.
00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:40.850
I I really appreciated this conversation too.
00:30:40.850 --> 00:30:41.490
Um,
00:30:41.490 --> 00:30:43.250
Technology is a tool.
00:30:43.250 --> 00:30:45.330
It does not create impact on its own.
00:30:45.330 --> 00:30:48.850
It's up to us, the humans who are managing that tool.
00:30:48.850 --> 00:30:55.330
Um, it's it's the people, it's the governance, it's that thoughtful stewardship that um that really matters.
00:30:55.330 --> 00:31:05.250
And so if we want stronger nonprofits, we not not only need to invest in the tools that they use, but their ability to use them um effectively.
00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:13.810
And so um so I'm excited about this conversation, um, excited about this white paper and continuing to um help lift this up as an important issue.
