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In this conversation, Steve McIntosh engages from a firmly integral philosophy standpoint, and the exchange is in many ways a productive friction with the series framing itself. McIntosh takes issue with the "third attractor" terminology, arguing that Schmachtenberger's framing bypasses one of the central insights of integral thought: the dialectical structure of cultural evolution through thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. His core claim is that any vision of what comes next must reckon seriously with progressive postmodernism as its own distinct stage, not simply leap from modernity to some better future. From there, the conversation unfolds across the political implications of developmental philosophy, the limits of building movements versus writing books, the work of the Institute for Developmental Philosophy, and the deep tensions in approaching cultural evolution from a position that insists on transcending and including rather than rejecting. McIntosh is skeptical of AI as an existential threat while remaining clear-eyed about its real risks, and equally skeptical of economic proposals that would dismantle rather than build on modernity.
Steve McIntosh is a philosopher of noosphere evolution whose work explores the development of consciousness, culture, and intrinsic value in our time. Influenced by thinkers such as Alfred North Whitehead and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, he writes in the emerging field of developmental philosophy, articulating how humanity can evolve beyond polarization toward more integrative forms of meaning-making. He is the author of several influential books, including Developmental Politics, The Presence of the Infinite, Evolution’s Purpose, and Integral Consciousness and the Future of Evolution, with his forthcoming book Truth Emerging continuing this trajectory. Since 2013, he has served as cofounder and president of the Institute for Developmental Philosophy.
In addition to his philosophical work, McIntosh is an active public intellectual and social innovator. He has contributed political commentary to major outlets such as USA Today and RealClearPolitics, appeared on platforms including NPR and Rebel Wisdom, and co-created DepolarizingGPT, a political chatbot designed to foster more balanced perspectives. His work consistently bridges inner development and cultural transformation, offering a grounded yet visionary perspective on how a more coherent and evolved society could emerge.
https://www.stevemcintosh.com/
https://www.developmentalphilosophy.org/
Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.
As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.
She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.
In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.
