Moonwalker (feat. Russ Robinson of Infectious Groove Music)

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Welcome to close Watch now, a proud member of the
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Odd Pods media network. This is the show where we
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get to know our guests through the movies they love.
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I'm your host, Robert Ghannis Junior, and this is episode
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twenty seven of the podcast. I am honored to welcome
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Russ Robinson of Infectious Groove. How are you doing, sir?
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Not too bad at all. I'm excited to be here.
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This is a topic, the artist and question that I
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have an endless amount of time to talk about.
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So yeah, yeah, exactly. Of course on this show. You
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can find more episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Good Pods,
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and other podcasters, as well as cricketable dot Com. Ratings
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and reviews are always appreciated. Will be discussing another installment
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of our movie musicals. We've been doing a series on
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Let's See. Most recently we did films like Wicked and
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Phill on the roof Sound of Music Chicago. Mulan Rouge
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and I wanted to switch it up. Obviously, I know
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you're a huge Michael Jackson fan and I am as well,
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so I was like, well this if ever, there was
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an opportunity to talk about Moonwalker from nineteen eighty eight,
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this would be it. So, sir, you were very very
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enthusiastic and very open, Like as soon as I said Moonwalker,
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you're like, yes, when let me know when I am there.
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So first of all, tell people a little bit about
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Infectious Groove and then we'll shift over into MJ territory.
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Yeah.
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So we have a ton of older podcast episodes that
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people can find us on any podcast, you know, whatever
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you use for your provider. But the audio only podcast
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was discontinued out geez, I think about a year ago now,
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but we still have like a couple hundred episodes out there.
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So if you do want to listen to a good
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time with three people talking about all things they love
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about music, then look those up on your provider. But
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what we've been focusing on lately is the YouTube channel,
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and by lately I mean the past four years and
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the extreme short pitch on our show is we are
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aware that we could get far more clicks and far
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more attention with hot takes and for lack of a
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better term, insulting things, and we feel like there's enough
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of that on the internet as it is. So instead
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of doing five overrated albums or five of the worst
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singers of all time or you know, we don't use
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words like terrible, overrated, worst, you know, all we do
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is we talk about things that we like, because why
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talk about things we don't like?
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You know.
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Yeah, so if you come into the YouTube channel Infectious
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Groove Music YouTube channel, you will find, you know, five
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underrated songs by this band or we More recently, we
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started a new series called What's So Great About, which
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we can go anywhere we want to, but like, uh,
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for example, Pink Floyd the Wall is my favorite album
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of all time, and so I did just a video
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on what's so great about Pink Floyd the Wall, Like,
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you know, why do I think it's so great? And
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everything we do is just to try and focus more
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on like I really like the Hidden Gems series and stuff,
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because there's some people who have got edisonce and all
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mine and I've never I didn't even know that song
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existed by that band and I love it or you
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know what I mean, things like that. Yeah, And then
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if you're a big fan of a band or an
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artist or whatever, a lot of times if you see
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one of those videos, what we find we get the
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most traction out of is people saying, oh, yeah, those
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are five good ones. But if I were making the list,
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you know, here's the five I would tell someone to
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listen to or you know what I mean. Yeah, absolutely,
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that's the kind of dialogue I would like to keep
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going on the internet instead of just everything, you know,
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being the you know, five worst songs ever or whatever.
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You know.
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So that's definitely very much my approach as well. Like
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that's usually why whenever I'm recruiting guests for if I'm
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looking for a specific movie or whatever, I'm always like,
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all right, well, who's a fan of this? I don't
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want to have someone on here, And then it's been
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an hour just being like, oh what a slog this
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thing was and tearing it to pieces like I don't
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need that in my life. There's enough of that out there.
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That's what you're looking for? Oh it is, you know
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very much? Yeah, so I love that philosophy. I know
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you've done some Michael Jackson content on Infectious Group. Have
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you ever tackled Moonwalker specifically?
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It's funny that you mentioned that, because yeah, we've done
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so much Michael Jackson content from the audio show that
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we had in the YouTube with reaction videos being a thing.
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We do quite a few reaction videos on the channel,
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and we've done a lot of different Michael Jackson stuff,
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but at no point in the history of anything that
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I've done content wise, have we touched on Moonwalker, which
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is crazy. Yeah, now we did, Lauren and I did
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do a reaction to the Smooth Criminal long form video,
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which is a big part of Moonwalker, but we haven't.
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We didn't do any reaction to it or anything for
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the for the actual show. And one thing too with
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I used to have co hosts on the audio podcast,
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and Moonwalker is not widely available, you know, like I
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own the European Blu ray, but it's never even been
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officially released in the US, and it's not on any
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streaming service, or wasn't at that time. So it wasn't
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like I could just say to the co hosts like, oh, yeah,
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I just rented or you know whatever like they So
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that would have been one of the reasons why we
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never did it before.
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Yeah.
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I wonder if that's the licensing issue, or if whoever
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at EPIC is not interested in it, or what's what
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to deal is with that.
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I have very hard opinions on the lack of care
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that Michael Jackson estate has taken with his legacy and
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the fact that Moonwalker isn't out in the US, I
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am certain has everything to do with them.
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Yeah, what that's that's actually kind of a good a
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good thing to touch on too before we get it
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to Moonwalker. How what do you how do you feel
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about sort of this the state of his legacy? Like
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what has what things have been released since his passing.
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I know there's been two albums of like sort of
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posthumous remixed and rearranged tracks, you know, with Escape and Michael.
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What are your thoughts on the s of the products
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that have come out since since two thousand and nine?
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It's interesting, you know, the Michael album is uh ex
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has has some major major issues that were actually proven
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in court where they used a of fake vocal on
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I don't want to say to on a certain number
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of tracks. I don't know for sure how many it was,
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but they were they were caught red handed doing that.
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But what's interesting is that album has a beautiful ballad
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on it called Much Too Soon that really is Michael
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and I absolutely love that song. And what's funny is
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I didn't I refuse to listen to that for like geez,
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I don't know, five years or so after it came
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out because of all the negativity and everything, And it
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comes somebody on a Michael Jackson forum who convinced me
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to listen to much too soon. He's like, you at
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least got to listen to this one song, you know,
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And I did, and I love that song, yeah, And
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the other is so Escape. What's interesting which is interesting
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about Escape is yeah, I don't mind the versions that
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are on Escape, excuse me, but when you if you,
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if you seek out and listen to the original demos
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of any of those songs, it's one of those things
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where it's like Michael Jackson didn't need their help, like
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he didn't need them to like overproduce those songs, right,
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you know what I mean. So what that ended up
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making me do really is seek out the original versions
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and you know which is easy to find on YouTube
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or whatever, and you find out that they were better versions, right,
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So I don't because I don't have that readily available,
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Like the versions that I like better are not on streaming,
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So I don't listen to that album as much as
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I would if the other versions were available, you know.
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Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I have. I
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think the CD.
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Version I have has both versions. It has like the
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new one and then the original version, sort of like
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the original.
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Versions of each of the songs. Yeah, at the end
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of it.
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Yeah, which is which is cool at least that they
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have that available. Yeah, it's been it's it's been rough.
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As an MJ fan, like.
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It's that it's more about the I mean, even as
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much as they completely screwed up the Michael album and
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so on, it's more about what they haven't done, Like, like,
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how do you have one of the one of the
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largest selling artists of all time from from a sonic standpoint,
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and inarguably one of the greatest visual musicians or artists
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of all time and just do nothing with Like what
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how I don't understand and like and I and I understand.
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I'm sure streaming numbers are massive. I'm I'm sure Michael
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Jackson in a dormant state is still very, very, very
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lucrative for them. Yeah, but like, even if you just
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look at it from that cynecle of a standpoint, go, well,
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it's all about the money they could be making even
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more if they would just you know, re release some stuff.
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So it's insane, it's very weird.
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What is your what is your history with Michael Jackson, Like,
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what are some of your earliest memories, How how has
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your fandom sort of developed over the years, And when
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did you first come across Moonwalker.
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Uh so, I'm I'm of a certain age and was
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I was seven when Thriller came out, and I'm very
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and of course now I'm very aware of the Jackson
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five and the cartoon in the in the variety shows
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and all that stuff from before, but for whatever reason,
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I had not heard anything of the Jackson's or or
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the Jackson five or Off the Wall or anything. So
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for me, when Thriller started gaming gaining steam is when
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I first heard of MJ. And of course, because if
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you live through that time, it's it. There's no way
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to overstate it. He was literally everywhere all the time,
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like you know, and they would do they would do
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whole TV specials about like just the history of the
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Jacksons and stuff, you know, like just because he was that,
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anybody would watch anything involving MJ.
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You know.
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So that's kind of how I got understanding what came
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before that. But uh, the very first thing that I
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heard at all ever off of Thriller was beat It,
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and I was just blown away, you know, because it's
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an amazing song, you know, and uh absolutely, and then
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the visuals that that go with it. I was just
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absolutely stunned and blown away by that. And then it's
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it's a much longer story, but it kind of connects
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into the Elvis Presley is one of my favorite artists
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of all time and one of the albums, one of
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the very first albums I ever bought was Elvis in
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Madison Square Garden, and on that album, Elvis covers like
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such a range of music, like just off the time
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my head. He covers like Dusty Springfield, the Righteous Brothers,
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I'm trying, I'm trying to think Creden's Clearwater Revival on
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Three Dog Night, Like he does all this stuff right,
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and that got me used to being like hearing a
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ton of different types of music in one spot, you know.
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So that's why Thriller for me, I mean, of course
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it was, you know, ridiculous selling album, but for me,
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what drove me to it was the diversity of music
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on there. Like it's not just an R and B record,
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It's not just a pop record. It's not just a
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rock record like it's it's it's everything all at once
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on one record, you know, and done and done very well.
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You know. Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
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So anyway, so that's where that started for me and
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then went up through uh when when Moonwalker came out,
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I want to say I first heard of it probably
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via MTV, because all the way through, really all the
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way through Dangerous, Michael Jackson was still like a big
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staple on MTV all the time, and so I want
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to say that's probably where I heard of it. What's
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interesting is for being as bad as either my second
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or third favorite album of his. But for whatever reason,
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I didn't even get to see the Moonwalker movie for
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years after it came out. But of course, the long
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form version of Smith Criminals in regular rotation on MTV
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like all the time, so you know, I've seen at
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least a bunch of it, you know. But yeah, and
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so that like when Moonwalker came out, I would I
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heard of it through MTV, but I didn't even get
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to see it really until geez, I don't know, sometime
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in the early nineties, and for whatever reason, I never
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had it and I didn't borrow it from anybody or anything.
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But it's in the early nineties. A friend of mine
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had a VHS copy of it, and so I finally
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saw it and it was funny. I mean, we'll get
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into the whole thing, but it was the whole thing
249
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ended up being quite a bit different than I thought
250
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it was going to be based on uh sweet Criminal.
251
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It's funny that, like so much of Michael Jackson's content
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to a certain point, was like it was hard to
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track down, Like you were saying with Moonwalker that this
254
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this was came out theatrically overseas, it went like straight
255
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to video essentially in the US, released by Warner Brothers
256
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and a company who is totally running things very smoothly
257
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these days. Yeah, yeah, they're doing sarcasm, sarcastle.
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Uh. And then like you know, with Ghosts, for example,
259
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like that I didn't see until several years later when
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it was built the Michael Jackson Halloween Special.
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It is like no one in the US nos coasts.
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I think Ghosts kills thriller in every way possible, Really,
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I really do. And I mean I mean you also
264
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have the the benefit of you know, being over a
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decade later and different. You know, he's he's he's a
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markedly better performer by that point. I happen to like
267
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the songs in in Ghosts as much or more than
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the song Thriller. And for me, I'm really big into
269
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the message in Ghosts. Like I if I know you
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and I are friends on social media, I make absolutely uh.
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There's there's no confusion regarding my thoughts on Michael Jackson
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and how the media treated him, the world at large
273
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treated him, and on the ridiculous things people have said
274
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about him and the messaging and Ghosts I think is incredible,
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Like and now and now we're gonna I know we're
276
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gonna write videos later. Now I'm mad that I left
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it off off my list. I actually that's never been
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available here in the US, you know.
279
00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.759
Yeah, no exactly, I have. I think I got somewhere
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they released like on see on a DVD, CD ROM
281
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kind of vibe. So I have a version of Ghosts.
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But I left it off my six as well because
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I was like, well, that's kind of a cheat. That's
284
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that's it's forty minutes. There's at least these three songs
285
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I think featured in it. Yeah, yeah, too bad?
286
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Is it scary? And Ghosts I think are all in that.
287
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Yeah, so I'm like that that's not fair to the
288
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rest of the videos, but yeah, no, I totally would
289
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have included that as well. So, so Moonwalker is a
290
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little bit different than a lot of the movie musicals
291
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we've been covering. This is more of anthology style. I
292
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feel like it's it's Michael Jackson trying to capture sort
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of that the thing that the Beatles were doing for
294
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a while, the kind of making a movie celebrating their
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career that's also sort of pushing it forward, whether kind
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of playing themselves, kind of playing a character. And I
297
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think that that's Do you feel like that is a
298
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a genre, an approach to a a musical artist's catalog
299
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or career that we're not really like that has kind
300
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of disappeared as of now, because I can't remember the
301
00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.360
last time that's happened. Like, if you see a music
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00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.879
artist that's big enough for something like that, it's either
303
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.320
a concert film or like what's really popular now, which
304
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is the concert film slash documentary kind of behind the scenes,
305
00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:24.039
but nothing that actually attempts to you know, no attempt
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at actual like real filmmaking, narrative filmmaker.
307
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.200
The only thing I've seen even remotely close to that
308
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.440
she's I don't know, in twenty years is there's a
309
00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.559
Disney Plus special for Billie Eilish called out I think
310
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it's just called Happier than Ever or a Happier than
311
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Ever in Los Angeles or something, and it's a really
312
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:48.000
interesting piece where she's playing to a crowd of no
313
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One at Hollywood Bowl, and interspersed with it is a
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animated version of her that's like traveling all through Los Angeles,
315
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and like Los Angeles is extremely important to her and
316
00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.559
her st and so the animated version of her is
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like going around Los Angeles to those places and whatnot.
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And so that's that's at least like an original and
319
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.359
unique way to do that, you know, honestly. And it
320
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.400
looks fantastic too, like it's it's shot so well. But
321
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but yeah, I can't think of anything else.
322
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I think.
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I think really what you were saying, I think eventually
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people just stopped being trying to be any sort of
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creative with it and they were like, look, just put
326
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the songs, well some backstage stuff, and we'll just call
327
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that good, you know.
328
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:31.519
Exactly, yeah, exactly the kind of movie that like the
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00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.960
Lonely Islands pop star was parodying.
330
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.240
It just became like that. I love that movie so much.
331
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I get Humble stuck in my head more often than
332
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i'd like to admit.
333
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.039
That's so great. It is amazing.
334
00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.000
And MJ was always really not only you know, speaking
335
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to what it's sort of transpired with his legacy. He
336
00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:56.880
was always such a perfectionist, so like he's rolling around
337
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:01.200
somewhere being like, what are you guys doing music? And
338
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then you know, he was very hands on, very self aware,
339
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:10.160
very sort of self mythologizing sounds sounds like a negative,
340
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.000
but I don't necessarily feel like it is. Like he
341
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:16.559
was very much like celebrating his journey even as it
342
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was still happening. And I think Moonwalker is a great
343
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.680
example of that. Would you say no, I totally agree.
344
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.640
And you know, it's interesting what you said that the
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term you use where you said, you know, that's probably
346
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kind of a negative. Well, you know, again, I have
347
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:34.839
extremely strong opinions on how the media treated Michael Jackson
348
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while he was hearing and certainly since he left, and
349
00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.119
a lot of it to me was him being like, Okay,
350
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well someone's got to do this, like someone's got to
351
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celebrate what I'm doing, you know what I mean, because
352
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the media was like absolutely not having it, you know
353
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what I mean, Like, like from before Thriller on, the
354
00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.480
media had made it clear to him that, like, we
355
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do not want to push you out there for whatever,
356
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for what I feel or obvious reasons. They had made
357
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.400
that clear, and I feel like at certain points in
358
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.680
his career he just flat out was like, yeah, not
359
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.160
to have an ego about this, but what I've done
360
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.240
is amazing, and someone's gonna celebrate this tament.
361
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:11.799
You know what I mean.
362
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:16.160
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And he was, you know, obviously in
363
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.119
this one. In this film, we g have probably I
364
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.960
don't know if it's the first. It might is leave
365
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.640
Me Alone, the first time that he's straight up like
366
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.559
taking on those crazy rumors and expressing his feelings about
367
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.319
the press and the media frenzy surrounding his career. And
368
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:38.000
it's yeah, persona, yeah, it's first. Just first, just general thoughts,
369
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.559
I guess on this movie. This is incredibly eighties, and
370
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:44.240
I mean that in the best way, like very much.
371
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:48.559
The stop motion effects, uh, the little kids in the
372
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.519
in the smooth criminal segment, it's very ambliney in a
373
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:55.200
lot of ways. What how do you feel that this
374
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:59.039
film has aged now looking back? Obviously it's very much
375
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.680
a product of its time, But any any sort of
376
00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:05.920
insight now looking back on this movie, what thirties seven
377
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:06.880
years later.
378
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.440
I'd rather not get into that. Yeah.
379
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.920
Yeah, So it's it's funny because the other night when
380
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:16.759
we were watching it, my wife had never seen it.
381
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.400
She'd seen the Leave Me Alone video, she'd saw come
382
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:24.039
Together clip, she'd seen the smooth Criminal Law form, but
383
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:25.720
she hadn't seen everything else, so she hadn't seen it
384
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:26.400
all one piece.
385
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:28.960
And one thing that.
386
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.759
I had remarked is I hadn't watched it and I
387
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.680
don't know, probably five years or so, and I thought,
388
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:36.880
you know, man, this is like really disjointed, Like this
389
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:39.160
is like it just is like here's a thing, and
390
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.160
here's a totally different thing, and then here's a totally
391
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.759
different thing. But then like there's kind of a thread
392
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:47.000
through some of it and not. But what's interesting is
393
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.319
what you said, you know, in watching it, it's just
394
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:54.759
because I've been conditioned to not see anything that creative anymore. Yeah,
395
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:56.880
that's why I thought that, you know what I mean,
396
00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.599
like there was a time where we would expect creativity
397
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.279
and new and wild things from our artists, and we've
398
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.039
been conditioned not to. And so even with hindsight watching
399
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.200
that again, I was like, man, this is pretty disjointed,
400
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:12.759
but it's just it's really just art. It's what it is.
401
00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:13.559
Yeah.
402
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.880
Yeah, So to I guess to kind of walk to
403
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.079
kind of walk people through the segments in this film.
404
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.279
So we open with the man in the Mirror performance
405
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.640
I believe, right, Yeah. Then there's the retrospective. There's a
406
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:34.359
lot of Michael Jackson memorabilia sort of out killer. It's
407
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.880
such a great summation of his career up to that point,
408
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:42.039
all the highlights, like you were saying with the Jackson five,
409
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:44.960
with the Jackson's you get some dancing machine, you get
410
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.359
some who's loving you, all that great stuff. Then we
411
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:55.319
transition to batter which is with the children parodying the
412
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.000
Bad video. And this is in the same year where
413
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.799
Weird Al Yankovic did his His Bad, His Bad parody.
414
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.119
So I love that Michael Jackson is even kind of
415
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.079
going back and be like, hey, I could parody my
416
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:07.839
own video too.
417
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.119
Yeah, and one day, you know, it's a side note
418
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.759
I want to mention on that too is so it's
419
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.279
it's no, it's kind of a half truth. It's very
420
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:21.359
famous that Michael Jackson lent the Bad set to weird
421
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:24.799
Al to make the fat video, which I think is amazing.
422
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:26.960
By the way, not only is this dude, not only
423
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:28.559
is this dude like I'm the biggest star in the
424
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.519
world and it's totally okay to make fun of you
425
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.480
know what I'm doing, but like, also, please use my set,
426
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:36.960
you know. But what most people don't know. People know,
427
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:38.799
some people know that part, but what they don't know
428
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.720
is the Badder set is different from the bad set.
429
00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:46.000
They had a completely different set built because it's three
430
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:50.160
it's three quarter scale because of the children. That's the
431
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.640
set that he lent to weird Al, which makes the
432
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.960
video even funnier. That's why they can't fit through the
433
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.359
turnstiles and everything when they're in the in the weird
434
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.559
Al video, and so it's even they look even bigger
435
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:06.279
and uh and more like out of place because it's
436
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.720
the three quarter scale set. I think that's so awesome.
437
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.759
But yeah, that now we'll get into I don't know
438
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:14.200
if if you want to do this along the way
439
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.680
or how you want to do one thing I was
440
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.359
telling Lauren is that you know, when you when you are,
441
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.160
when you're this big of a star, you get to
442
00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:27.359
a point where there's no no like everyone around you
443
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.480
is just yes men, you know. And even when you're
444
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:32.440
this big of a star, you end up with people
445
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:36.119
like John Landis and and Steven Spielberg are your guests men.
446
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:36.839
You know, you know.
447
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:43.720
And I feel like there are so many neat little
448
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:47.720
ideas in here that I wish somebody would have said, Okay,
449
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:51.440
let's let's take this idea and expand it to the
450
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.000
whole thing, and then we'll do those other ideas in
451
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:56.480
other projects or something, you know.
452
00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:56.960
What I'm saying.
453
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.400
Like even if, like you said, look at that the
454
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:04.680
retrospective part right before batter, that could have been feature length,
455
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.599
like if you I mean they covered whether they show
456
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:12.400
ten fifteen seconds of each song, you know, yeah, feature length?
457
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.880
Like and that's that's the dude's career from what age
458
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.519
seven or nine to at the time I think he
459
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.240
would have been thirty, you know that, or even he
460
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.279
could have put together a whole bunch of different parodies
461
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.160
of his own videos and that could have been its
462
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:32.519
own thing. And certainly the whole storyline with Joe Pesci
463
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:35.559
and the kids being in trouble and all that like
464
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.880
that that almost is feature length, Yeah, exactly. No, So
465
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.960
I just wish somebody at the time would have said,
466
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.559
you know, hey, these are all awesome ideas, but like
467
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.839
even the speed Demon thing, there could be a whole
468
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:53.160
different movie based around that sketch, you know. And so
469
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.279
for me, the first Cheese I don't know, half hour
470
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.039
of it, it just seems like Michael Jackson was like,
471
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:01.519
and then we could do this, and then we can
472
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:04.000
do use and everyone in the room just went yes,
473
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:04.279
I'm j.
474
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:05.400
Yes, I'm j. You know.
475
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.079
I wish somebody would have been like, okay, yeah, we
476
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.200
can do that in a minute, like let's do this
477
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.119
other thing first, you know, yeah.
478
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:12.440
Yeah yeah.
479
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.599
Well, I mean he might not have had the opportunity
480
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:18.519
to ever get back to it, and I think maybe
481
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:20.000
he knew that, and so he was like, this might
482
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.559
be my only chance, yeah, to do something like this,
483
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.039
So let me just put as much in there as possible.
484
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.640
And to your point, like in the retrospective, there's twenty
485
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.200
one songs featured from Music in Me all the way
486
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:35.079
to Dirty Diana, Like what is that eighteen years worth
487
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.680
of music, so yeah, almost almost twenty years of his stuff.
488
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.559
And then, as you sort of mentioned, the speed Demon section,
489
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.319
which come on, gotta love and I've gotta love some
490
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.640
claymations stop motion animation, and again we get a lot
491
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:56.799
of the his depiction of the press, the paparazzi, obsessive.
492
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:58.839
Fans, yeah, so called fans.
493
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:02.640
Yeah, yes, exactly, And of course we get like little
494
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:06.960
references to Sylvester Stallone, Tina Turner, Pewee Herman who's credited
495
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:09.519
as voicing himself, which I think is really great.
496
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:12.519
Which I love that big Pee Wee's Playhouse fan over here.
497
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:16.680
So absolutely, any thoughts on on the speed Demon section,
498
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:19.000
because this is one that always really stood out to
499
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.759
me as someone who grew up with stop motion so much.
500
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.680
So I'm gonna go a little bit off here and
501
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.720
then come I'll come right back. So Phil Phil Collins
502
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:30.240
is credited with credited with having one of my favorite
503
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:35.160
quotes about Michael Jackson, which is, uh, they you know,
504
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.079
people always all why is he always hanging around kids?
505
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:39.920
Why is he always hanging around kids? And Phil Collins
506
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:43.880
one time said that when adults see Michael Jackson, they
507
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:47.119
see dollar signs. And when children see Michael Jackson, they
508
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:52.200
see a friend. And I think in this if you
509
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.559
I may be overthinking this, but when you see the
510
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:01.759
the son and I'm assuming grandmother and they see him,
511
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:05.319
they go if you notice, their faces go from like
512
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:10.079
all innocent and uh like like starstruck by whatever's happening
513
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:12.160
around them, and then when they see Michael Jackson, their
514
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:16.240
faces become vicious and mean, like you know, and to me,
515
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.279
that's to me him saying flat out, this is how
516
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:23.839
I see the way that you guys treat me, you know,
517
00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:27.319
like that's how I feel. I think that's a very
518
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.599
conscious decision on his part to where as soon as
519
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.759
those people see him, they get uh just vicious and
520
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:36.559
throw everything out the window and become you know, And certainly,
521
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.559
I mean that's certainly the media. People expect that of
522
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:40.519
the media. But when I first saw it, I was
523
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.799
very surprised that he was so open about going, this
524
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:47.039
is how you guys make me feel, you know, yeah,
525
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:48.559
and then good.
526
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:50.559
Good, yeah, you go ahead and I'll come back around.
527
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:52.359
I just was gonna skip to the end of it.
528
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.519
Every single time he gets the ticket for dancing, I
529
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.960
laugh every time It's like, sign was right there? Why'd
530
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:00.960
you do the toe stand? Sign was right there?
531
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:04.160
If it stopped just before?
532
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:06.519
Yeah, and he and him and Spike have a little
533
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:08.440
dance off moment out there in the desert.
534
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:09.680
All of that so much fun.
535
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:13.920
I think what's interesting about this especially to watching it
536
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.279
now so far out, so far out, and you know,
537
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.039
at this point in my in my life as an
538
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:24.400
adult and supposed to watching it as a kid, you
539
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.440
really sort of read into so much about what this
540
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.160
movie has to say about him as an artist, about
541
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.519
his career. But what I want to know hear from you.
542
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.160
We'll get more into this when we get the Smooth
543
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.480
Criminal and leave me alone. Obviously, in a second, what
544
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:39.559
do you think is his statement? What do you think
545
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:41.920
other than look at what I've achieved, what do you
546
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:46.599
think he's trying to say with this film overall?
547
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:51.839
I think the the number one takeaway that he would
548
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:57.039
have wanted people with this film to get is there's like,
549
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.000
I'm doing my best. There's no reason to be so many,
550
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:02.839
you know, And I think he says that. I know
551
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.960
that sounds like an oversimplification, but in many different ways
552
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:11.160
throughout this film, he that's what he's saying, is just,
553
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:13.839
you know, there's no reason to be so mean about it.
554
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:16.079
And of course this is a couple of years before
555
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.160
he would find out exactly how mean the whole world
556
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.839
could be to him, you know, And even even with
557
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.960
the the main storyline through Smooth Criminal and the near
558
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.920
the end with with Joe Pesci and the whole drug
559
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.000
empire and all that stuff, even with that, like it's
560
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.279
he's just showing people like I'm just trying to help,
561
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:38.799
you know, Like I mean, I know the storyline there
562
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.640
is is directly helping these children get away from the
563
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.519
drug dealers. But the overarching message to me is of
564
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.079
that is like I'm just trying to help. What's so
565
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:48.880
weird about that?
566
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:49.640
You know?
567
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.039
Like what, so what's so strange about that? Like because
568
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:57.440
anybody whoever dealt with him on a personal level, who
569
00:29:57.720 --> 00:29:59.480
hasn't turned around to try and make a buck off
570
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.000
of him, would tell people that he was genuinely confused
571
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.400
about that his whole life, Like he genuinely was like
572
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:09.920
I don't understand why everybody thinks I'm so weird, Like
573
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.599
this is just my life, Like none of you have
574
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.000
gone through it, you know, exactly, And I just feel
575
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.039
like because it ties in with what you were saying
576
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:19.599
about this being the first time that he really struck
577
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:23.680
out with leave me Alone, And I just feel like
578
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.559
the whole the message of the entire piece is you
579
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:28.240
don't know what it's like to be me, and I
580
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:31.039
don't know why you're all being so mean all the time.
581
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.599
Yeah, I mean, I think what's interesting when you look
582
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.680
at It opens with Man in the Mirror, which is literally, hey,
583
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.480
let's all try and be better people. Essentially, then it's
584
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.279
just like, hey, here's everything I've accomplished with the retrospective,
585
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:46.680
Here's where I'm at, Here's what you know me from,
586
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.000
and then batter is sort of look I get I
587
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.319
don't take myself too seriously. Speed Demon is sort of like,
588
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:55.079
this is how you guys treat me and this is
589
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:58.160
how you make me feel leave me Alone as an
590
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.160
expansion on that, and then Smooth and Smooth Criminal is
591
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:05.599
sometimes i feel like I'm being hunted. Sometimes I feel
592
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:09.160
like an alien. I'm just out to like be a positive,
593
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.720
a force for good and look out for the kids,
594
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:16.480
and literally ends the film on come together, Yeah right now,
595
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:20.200
Like it's so it's it's it's when you look at
596
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:24.839
it holistically, you get a good sense for sort of
597
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:27.720
thee and then and and again. That's those are all
598
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:31.720
messages that are present throughout his entire catalog. If you
599
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.920
look at Heal the World, if you look at you know,
600
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.079
have you seen my childhood? Like literally sort of saying
601
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:39.480
some of the things that you were getting at. I
602
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:43.000
just think it's a really it's a really interesting piece
603
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:47.400
from that perspective, getting some insight into the most famous
604
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.400
person in the world for a long while.
605
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:50.079
Yeah.
606
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.680
Yeah, there's so much about that that people And again
607
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:57.160
he touches a lot on that in Ghosts too, that
608
00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.799
people will never understand. Like, you know, I always tell
609
00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:05.319
my wife regarding you know, the debate regarding plastic surgeries
610
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.319
and changing of appearance or whatever, you know, in ghosts,
611
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:12.079
he I feel like he takes that on very very
612
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:14.559
head on. But I told, you know, I told my wife,
613
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:17.079
I said, do you know how any especially in the
614
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.279
day and age of selfies, everyone wants approval over the picture, right,
615
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.160
Like somebody takes his stuff in Oh no, no, no,
616
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:23.559
let me see that before you put it up, right,
617
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:25.480
And they're just concerned with it going up on your
618
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:29.519
social media, which in in in in all honesty, seven
619
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:33.880
people are going to see, right, imagine having your picture
620
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:38.960
uh yeah, literally in every man woman in child's house
621
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.240
and coming away from a abusive father who who said
622
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:48.039
awful things to you about your appearance, your entire life,
623
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.720
you know. And like I the way I always say
624
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.839
to people's my grandmother quite literally had a Michael Jackson
625
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:58.960
poster in her living room. That's the how how popular
626
00:32:59.000 --> 00:32:59.680
this guy was.
627
00:32:59.640 --> 00:32:59.920
In the a.
628
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.680
Could you even try and settle on one picture of
629
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:08.200
you you would want in everyone's in the world, you know,
630
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.079
And then would you start really focusing in on every
631
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:12.640
little thing that you thought was wrong too?
632
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:12.920
You know?
633
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.480
And I feel like he addresses that in this But
634
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:18.720
like you said, everything is done with the purpose as
635
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:21.480
far as the messaging goes. And I think the messaging
636
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.319
is just hey, not even just for me, but why
637
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:26.319
don't we all just be nicer to each other?
638
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:29.440
You know? Yeah, exactly exactly.
639
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:34.480
And then we move on to the smooth criminal section, which,
640
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:37.240
to your point, like add a few more songs than
641
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.559
and like twenty thirty minutes that could have been a
642
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:44.200
feature in and of itself. You get a very young
643
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:49.279
young Sean Lennon, Yeah, as one of the kids. Also,
644
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:53.119
I want to shout out Brandon Quinton James, who also
645
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:58.960
played like baby Michael essentially in batter and Kelly Parker
646
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:03.839
as Katie, which you know, I think are perfectly fine,
647
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.759
like kind of innocent, cute kids. They're sort of playing
648
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.840
in the woods. They stumble upon Joe Peshy as mister
649
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.760
Big aka Frankie Lideo, which I was always a little
650
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:16.440
confused about that.
651
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.679
Well, so like, did he have beef with frank de Leo?
652
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:22.480
He would name this character.
653
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:25.400
He was very much his active manager at the time,
654
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:27.480
and he's in the He's in the end of the movie.
655
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.239
I know, it's very strange. That's very like, I don't
656
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.360
know what that is. That's one thing I've always been like, huh,
657
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:36.679
I wonder what that was.
658
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:41.039
It's like an encoded message or something. Frank.
659
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:44.320
I will tell you one thing that you mentioned Sean Lennon.
660
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:47.639
When we were watching that the other night, my wife goes, hey,
661
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:49.599
pause it like as soon as Sean Lennon shut up
662
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:53.000
on the screen. So yeah, she goes, she goes, that's
663
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.880
John Lennon's kid. I said, yeah, And she goes and
664
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.960
he's going to end this by covering one of John
665
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.960
Lennon's biggest songs, and I was like, yeah, Like, because
666
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:03.519
when you're the biggest artists in the world, you can
667
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:05.400
do things like that. You'll be like, oh, you're going
668
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.480
to cover John Lennond, Yes, and bring me his child
669
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:08.800
to be in my video.
670
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:16.920
You know, yeah, yeah, no, that's pretty funny. This section,
671
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:20.159
obviously also is the most narrative of the of the bunch.
672
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.679
We get like a nice I forget how long it
673
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:24.800
is exactly, it's like at least forty five minutes long
674
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.559
something like that, maybe closer to an hour, and you
675
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:31.199
get a lot of sci fi elements. What do you
676
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.639
make of this section in and of itself? And you know,
677
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:38.159
we've often heard I think from Michael in the nineties.
678
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:40.119
You know, there's a lot of stories if he famously
679
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:43.440
wanted to be you wanted to star in Spielberg's Hook,
680
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:45.039
like you wanted to do a lot of movies, you
681
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.199
wanted to be more on camera. What do you think
682
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:51.119
of this section sort of I guess as a proof
683
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:54.039
of concept of Michael at the centerpiece of a film.
684
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:54.880
I think it's awesome.
685
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:57.360
I think it's fantastical, Like I can't think of another
686
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.559
artist who would even remotely have the capacity to come
687
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:03.440
up with something like this, like at all. Now, I
688
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:07.199
will tell you there's something kind of funny. So before
689
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.760
I ever saw the film, I owned a Sega Genesis,
690
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.519
So I played the Moonwalker game on the Genesis and then.
691
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:16.760
I'm not the Arcade, the arcade back in the day.
692
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:19.679
I have the Arcade game in my living room actually,
693
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.400
but uh so I played that right So in the
694
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.239
in the game, at one point in the Arcade game,
695
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.000
you very you turn into a robot quite often, and
696
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.320
in the Genesis cartridge there's points where you turn into
697
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:34.480
the car. Right well, having not seen the movie and
698
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:36.880
only seen the long form Smooth Criminal, I was like,
699
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:39.239
what's what the role about of the car? Like, I
700
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.960
don't you know, like why are these I thought, well, okay,
701
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.000
video game, you know what I mean? Whatever, Yeah, And
702
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:46.559
then when I finally saw the movie, I was.
703
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:51.320
Like, oh, robot in the cart you know, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
704
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:53.280
but yeah, I don't think nobody else I think would
705
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.760
come up with anything even remotely as fantastical and based
706
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.840
on imagination alone.
707
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:04.440
I think that the guy proved that he very well
708
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.840
could have been a force to reckon with in the
709
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.440
motion picture industry. I'm not I couldn't even begin to jibe.
710
00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.480
I don't have enough appreciation for film to judge his
711
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.119
acting ability, so I wouldn't try to do that. But
712
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:20.760
from a creative creative standpoint. You know, this is another
713
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:25.400
thing too that years later, there are there you can
714
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.599
find this on the internet. There's actual recordings of Michael
715
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.519
Jackson talking about how in the late nineties he wanted
716
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:37.000
to purchase Marvel and full on hear him lay this
717
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.639
all out. And what's funny at the time they would
718
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:41.760
have given Marvel away, like you know what I mean. Well,
719
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.239
and what's interesting in this recording is he lays out
720
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:48.599
his what he would do is he would release a
721
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:52.159
bunch of movies, one off for each individual one and
722
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:55.559
make a whole universe and then do movies with all
723
00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.039
of them together. Like he lays out what yeah, yeah again.
724
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:04.199
Yeah, cinematic universe. Yep.
725
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.360
Interesting basically late and he talked about how he would
726
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:08.119
he would open theme parks around it and all that,
727
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.280
which all of that has happened. Yeah, so in a
728
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.760
way like no one and of course the media is
729
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.880
not going to tell anybody about this. Uh the no
730
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.199
one knows that he did all of that, but like
731
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:21.559
in a way, it's kind of been proven that, yes,
732
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:23.760
he would have been a great creative force because he
733
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.000
just came up with the Marvel Uh you know cinematic universe.
734
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:30.440
You know that's crazy interesting.
735
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:35.320
Yeah, I mean this well, I mean it's I'm trying
736
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:38.639
to split the difference between talking about the smooth Criminal
737
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.360
section and also not talking about Smooth Criminal because when
738
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.119
we get to our rankings that come up online.
739
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.239
But yeah, no, I love I love this this section. Uh,
740
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.320
it does have that. You know.
741
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:54.000
Obviously you mentioned this thing made how the structure of
742
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.960
this film and obviously this is the one outlier that
743
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.639
you're like, well, is it anthology or is it this story?
744
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:02.119
Right?
745
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:04.760
Like it tries to split the difference, like like you
746
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.360
sort of mentioned, I think Michael was just like, let's
747
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.119
do as much as we can in this amount of
748
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:12.880
time that we're allotted, and so, uh, this is what
749
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:13.840
we ended up with.
750
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:15.079
But this is the.
751
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:18.760
One that I think really sticks out to me the
752
00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:22.199
most because of that that sequence in in the club
753
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:24.679
which we'll get to and all of that, uh, and
754
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:26.639
then it concludes to come together, and it's it's a
755
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.639
it's it is a a movie unlike unlike anything else
756
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.400
I think, and it has its unique place in in
757
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:36.760
his uh.
758
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.280
In his career. Where where do you? How do you?
759
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:44.800
How do you reconcile this movie with his his videography,
760
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:48.760
which there are there is if people haven't checked it out,
761
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.679
there's that Michael Jackson's vision box set, the DVD set
762
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.199
that I have somewhere over here next to me.
763
00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:58.199
Where do you? Where do you kind of put this
764
00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:02.599
in in his bdeography? This film? Like overall? How do you?
765
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:07.360
That's a good question. It's such a unique piece. It
766
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.119
just you know, it's so weird because it came out
767
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:12.400
a couple of years after Bad, and I know it's
768
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:16.360
obviously very bad heavy yeah, with like dirty dynam was
769
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:18.280
I think was the current single all the time and
770
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:22.119
all that, But I don't so I don't think of
771
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.920
it as being to me, it almost seems like a midpoint,
772
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:29.119
like a different era between bad and dangerous to me,
773
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:31.639
so like I can, I have no problem thinking of
774
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:35.760
it as a standalone thing, but it's at the same time,
775
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:41.119
it's also such a collection of things. Jeez, I don't know,
776
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:45.440
it's hmm, that's a great question. I don't even know
777
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:48.480
where i'd rank it, like among because it's hard, Like
778
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:51.920
I have no problem ranking like his his records and
779
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:54.800
things like that, but with his visual stuff, it's like
780
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.440
it Well, even with this, there is a standalone clip
781
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.320
for Coming Together, but it's included in this. There's obviously
782
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:04.760
a standalone clip for a smooth Criminal and so on.
783
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.199
H and so in a way, it's just those things
784
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:11.159
all gathered together. Yeah, you know, but I guess when
785
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:12.800
you put it up against the other collections of his
786
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.079
whole works, I would still put this above just a
787
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:19.480
like even there there there was like a two DVD
788
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:23.239
set of uh called history that was like all the
789
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:26.480
videos that would go along with this, I would put
790
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:29.480
it above that for sure, even though that's more diverse
791
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.760
in covering more of his career. Yes, this is just
792
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:35.480
such a unique thing that I would put it above that.
793
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:37.239
Yeah, and it.
794
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.119
Doesn't to to I think, laying it out the way
795
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:42.960
the way we did, like what he's trying to get
796
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.320
across with this one, it doesn't feel as disjointed to
797
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.239
me now as as it maybe wouldn't have. There's a
798
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.599
there's a thematic connection between them, whereas a lot of
799
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:56.320
the other you know DVD releases and to our earlier point,
800
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:59.559
they are fewer and further between than they should be
801
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.840
in the in the United States, at least domestically. This
802
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.880
does it does feel like it's making. It is a
803
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.920
collective work as opposed to just a compilation of of
804
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.440
you know, one off, one off sort of music videos
805
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.800
and such. And Leave Me Alone wasn't on the original
806
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.199
version of Bad. We should probably mention like it came
807
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:24.840
out on the CD. I think later, like it wasn't
808
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.159
on the album or the cassette, right, isn't that it?
809
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.159
It was a bonus track.
810
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:30.679
It was on the CD originally to as a way
811
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:33.480
to get people to buy the CD instead of the album. Yeah,
812
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:35.960
but on later pressings of the album it was included
813
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.320
the vinyl rather. I don't know if it was ever
814
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.480
on the cassette or not. I now that I think
815
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.360
about it, I don't think I've ever owned Bad on cassette.
816
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:47.719
I've owned it on every type of every other thing.
817
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.280
But yeah, and even now, like what's interesting is now
818
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:53.880
these days, if you just go into a record store
819
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.960
and you buy like a current pressing of Bad, they
820
00:42:56.960 --> 00:42:58.480
don't have leave Me Alone on it.
821
00:42:59.119 --> 00:42:59.679
That's weird.
822
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:02.800
Yeah, they did, like the original the current reprint, Like
823
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:04.440
if you just go and order it off Amazon or
824
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:07.719
you walk into Target and Bad just sitting there, it
825
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.880
will never have leave Me Alone on it, which is crazy.
826
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.199
There was like a run from like twenty ten to
827
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:16.480
like twenty twenty where all the re issues had leave
828
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:19.360
Me Alone on it, and now they don't.
829
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:23.199
It's it's weird. It's yeah, I don't like that.
830
00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:25.239
As a fan of that song, I'm like, no, I know,
831
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:27.159
it's not a racer from history.
832
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:28.079
So you know.
833
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:30.239
The one I always tell people, not that we're covering
834
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:31.960
vinyl or anything, but the one I always tell people
835
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:34.119
is if you're going to buy Bad on vinyl, just
836
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.840
spring like because I think Bad costs like twenty five bucks,
837
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:38.960
and for like thirty five bucks, you can get the
838
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:42.039
Bad twenty five, which is the three LP version of Bad.
839
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.119
And with that, not only do you get leave Me
840
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:47.320
Alone included on the record, but you get all the
841
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:50.039
demo stuff and the song that was supposed to be
842
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:54.119
on that was in contention with being on Bad with
843
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.360
it was came down to leave me Alone. In another
844
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.599
song called street Walker, and street Walker is on there,
845
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:01.559
and I think that song is every bit is good
846
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:04.159
or better than let Me Alone. So I tell people,
847
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:05.719
if you're going to spend twenty five bucks on Bad,
848
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:07.400
just like spend the extra ten bucks and get the
849
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.320
other two helpiece so you get the whole thing.
850
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:11.760
Yeah, as you were saying that, I was like, I
851
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:14.079
think street Walker is the one because that's one of
852
00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:16.000
the bonus tracks that always really stood.
853
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:18.159
Out to me. Yeah, and I was like, oh, good,
854
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:19.039
I was glad. I was right.
855
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:21.440
Yeah, and then Come Together wasn't on any of his
856
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:25.239
obs until seven eight years later with the History.
857
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:28.960
Yeah, it's on the second part of History and Yeah,
858
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:32.039
which is that overall is my favorite Michael Jackson album.
859
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:33.760
And it's funny because I always have to clarify for
860
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:35.599
people because they're like, well, yeah, but it's a great hits.
861
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:39.320
I'm like, not that part. The second half of it,
862
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.760
from Scream to Smile is my favorite edging. And there's
863
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:46.039
actually two songs on there that are that were recorded
864
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:49.440
during the Bad era but ended up on History, Come
865
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:51.239
Together as one and earth Song as the other.
866
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:52.760
Oh I didn't know that.
867
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.079
Yeah, he had earth Song done back and I came
868
00:44:56.119 --> 00:45:00.119
into that information by I'm a huge Pink Floyd and
869
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.880
on my show years ago, I got to interview Pink
870
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.840
Floyd's bass player, not Roger Waters, but Guy Pratt, the
871
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.519
guy who replaced Waters on the Base and he is
872
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.079
the guy who played bass on Earth Song. And I
873
00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:17.360
knew that, but I didn't know that it was recorded
874
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:19.440
that long ago, and so he told me that, yeah,
875
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:21.599
and so it was done. Then it just wasn't It
876
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.199
didn't go on bad and then it didn't make it
877
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:26.159
obviously didn't go on dangerous either, and then he finally
878
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:28.360
put it out on history.
879
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:29.559
Interesting.
880
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:31.440
Yeah, that's that was actually another question I was going
881
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:34.599
to ask you, what was your favorite MJ album?
882
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.360
Slash Era was why is it history?
883
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.480
What is it about that specific because it's reactionary to
884
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:42.880
everything that had had happened, and it's.
885
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.960
Like a couple of different things. Yeah, and that's a
886
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.480
lot of it. Yeah, is you know, this guy just
887
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:53.280
got accused of what I feel is the worst thing
888
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.599
you can accuse a human being of, and the court
889
00:45:56.599 --> 00:45:59.039
of public opinion and the media was just like, oh, yep,
890
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:02.440
you're guilty, and my story with that and I'll very
891
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:06.360
quickly do this. When when that came about in nineteen
892
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:09.159
ninety three. I was the very first person to be like,
893
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:12.199
oh my, this is the worst thing ever, Like I
894
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:14.760
just I didn't even question it because I thought, here's
895
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:16.639
this guy's always around kids, he's got all the money
896
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:19.000
in the world, you know, like he could you know,
897
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:22.840
wouldn't surprise me at all. And then, in my opinion,
898
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.599
in all the research that I've done, Michael Jackson is
899
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:28.960
the one person. The more research you do, the more
900
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.239
innocent he looks, you know, like when you do your
901
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.280
own research instead of just what the media tells you
902
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:36.679
about him. Everyone else on planet Earth, if you look
903
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.079
into them, if they've ever really accused of anything, you
904
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:41.159
look into it and you're like, the more you look
905
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:43.239
into it, the more you're like, I should stop looking
906
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:45.119
into this, Like I'm just finding out this person's worse
907
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:46.920
and worse and worse, you know, And he's like the
908
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:49.039
only guy that if you look at the facts objectively,
909
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.400
every time you find out something new, you're like, You're like, wait,
910
00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:54.960
how is he more innocent now? You know, like, so
911
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:58.719
this guy got accused of what I feel is the
912
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:00.400
worst thing you can call human being. The quart of
913
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.920
public opinion and the media just all agreed and said okay, yes, yes,
914
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:06.800
we all think this, yes, okay, cool, and they all
915
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.840
the whole world turned on this dude. And then he
916
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:15.119
puts out a record that addresses it head on while
917
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:21.039
still keeping on his main mission his whole life, which
918
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:23.519
is to continue to help everyone in the whole world
919
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:26.159
and everything, like like songs like Earth's Song they Don't
920
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:30.519
Care about Us are are in this record as part
921
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:34.519
of like, hey, I'm still going to be me, like
922
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:36.599
you have done this and I'm still you know, like
923
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:38.679
here's my side of some things, you know, with like
924
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:42.800
tabloid Junkie and Scream of Course and all that. But
925
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.679
he's still doing what he wanted to do, not letting
926
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.840
him deter from that. And I think with what you
927
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:53.800
were talking about earlier where Moonwalker opens with Man in
928
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:56.360
the Mirror then closes with Come Together and how that's
929
00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:02.599
very purposeful. Yeah, you know, History opens with screen and
930
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:06.039
gets very angry through the whole record and then ends
931
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:09.960
with a cover of Smile, which I think is oh
932
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:13.880
calculated and brilliant, you know, like he's like at the
933
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:17.159
basically at the end, he's like, listen, I'm getting treated
934
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:19.840
worse than anything that's ever happened to you, And I'm
935
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.679
still pushing through, so you should do, you know, Like
936
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:26.000
that's what that says to me. So and I genuinely
937
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:28.880
love all the songs on there, but even if the
938
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.840
songs were terrible, the execution of it is what makes
939
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:33.679
it my favorite.
940
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:38.599
Yeah, that's the album I think because I'm a little
941
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:41.480
bit younger than you. I was born and I was
942
00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:43.800
born in eighty three, so I the one that I
943
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:47.039
like grew up knowing as like a toddler was Bad.
944
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.760
So we had the cassette of Bad, and I remember
945
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.440
going on road trips and listening to that and and
946
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.920
that kind of thing. So the Bad Dangerous era is
947
00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:59.199
like when he was at his peak, where you know,
948
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:03.000
the black or white is simulcast on multiple networks in
949
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:04.199
prime time and all of that.
950
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.800
I know, you know this, of course if that's one
951
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:10.639
of those if you weren't there, you don't understand exactly.
952
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:14.079
There is not an artist today, including the person who's
953
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.960
been annoyed by the press like the greatest artists of
954
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:19.000
all time, Taylor Swift. I don't even a problem with her.
955
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:20.440
I have a problem with like the way the media
956
00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:25.079
does with her. Anyways, they would not stop all the
957
00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:26.880
networks to show the same video from her at the
958
00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:29.760
same time. No, And with Michael Jackson, everybody was like
959
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.679
Primetime on a Sunday. Wow, that's a you know, expensive
960
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:36.400
commercial hour. Wait, there's Michael Jackson video. Yeah, no problem,
961
00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:37.880
We'll show that for free, you know what I mean. Like,
962
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:40.559
and if you weren't there, you don't you don't get that.
963
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:44.000
And it's a thing that would never even come close
964
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:46.960
to happening today. And so it's hard for people to
965
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:51.280
wrap their brain around someone being that big, right, Yeah, yeah.
966
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:55.519
Absolutely, I think going back and listening to his albums
967
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.039
though to your point, I do think that History is
968
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:00.679
the one that I have my opinion, has grown up,
969
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.000
has grown towards the most because you see all the
970
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:06.480
all the cracks, you see that this this is his
971
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:07.599
most personal.
972
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:09.480
Album by by a country mouth.
973
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.280
Yeah, like even with songs like I already said, like
974
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.639
Childhood or or d S which is not so thinly veiled.
975
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:19.360
I don't know what you're talking about that it's clearly
976
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:24.280
not about Tom Steddon. There's no way that's not It's
977
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.679
not even called uh, it's not even called t S.
978
00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:31.480
It's called yes, you've made it obviously. That is an
979
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:33.960
old move, by the way, that song that is a
980
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:38.159
old move, like Michael's like, you know, I'm sick of
981
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:42.079
this guy, you know, like but yeah, like and then
982
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.079
Tabloid Junkie of course, and and then there's like, uh.
983
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:45.920
Like little Susie.
984
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:51.079
Yeah, it's such a personal song to him, and he's like,
985
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.079
I'm gonna put it on here because that's this is
986
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:56.880
that important to me, you know, Yeah, and I just
987
00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:59.280
it bums me out. I know, people who didn't even
988
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.559
know that there was new songs on History until I
989
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.599
until I told you there was, because it was just
990
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:05.840
marketed as a great sits in.
991
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:06.719
That yeah, exactly.
992
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:09.639
I think that was his way of kind of Trojan
993
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:13.039
horsing and all this like personal content and be like,
994
00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:15.679
not all of these are going to be like as
995
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:18.599
poppy as what you're used to from me, but you
996
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:20.840
get all the other songs that you do know, and
997
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.480
then also this all this sudden new material as well,
998
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:27.119
because yeah, so I remember, you know, I was ten
999
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:30.880
when the allegations arose, and that was like in the
1000
00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:33.880
midst of hard copy and all of these things that
1001
00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:39.039
were everywhere. Like so I remember seeing the his sort
1002
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.239
of his statement about the commenting on it and all
1003
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:46.480
that very much like it was. It was really upsetting
1004
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:50.360
to witness in a moment at the time, and now
1005
00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:55.440
I do feel like his legacy writ large has has
1006
00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:59.199
this like stain on it that is it's it's very
1007
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.920
it's very upset as someone who grew up with this
1008
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:06.880
guy and knows what he stood for, and that that
1009
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:12.519
totally misrepresents everything he was about. And I think you
1010
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.840
see that in this movie. You see that, and you
1011
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:19.079
hear that in his music, and it's yeah, it's a
1012
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:20.239
it's a sad thing.
1013
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:22.599
It's the thing, the thing that bums me out about it.
1014
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.000
And I've actually I can't believe this, but I've had
1015
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:27.719
people say this to me, which is insane. I've had
1016
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:31.360
people say, oh, well, you know, you know, you just
1017
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:33.639
think he's innocent because you're a big, huge fan, And
1018
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:38.000
it's like, there is no song good enough to make
1019
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:39.360
me excuse if he was.
1020
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:40.320
You know what I mean?
1021
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.199
And you know, my thing is what I always say
1022
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:45.039
to people is well, have you done any research on it?
1023
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:47.199
And you're never gonna believe this, But the answer is
1024
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:49.880
always no, you know, yeah, Like I have I've gone
1025
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:53.239
I've gone through ten years of FBI files. The FBI
1026
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:56.079
followed this guy for ten years when they had no idea,
1027
00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:59.480
he had no clue that he was being followed. There
1028
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.559
were there agents who started out looking into him who
1029
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:06.320
were like stoked as you would be, thinking that this
1030
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:08.960
is a this is a guilty person, and they were like, man,
1031
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:11.199
we're gonna bring this guy down. It's gonna be awesome,
1032
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:13.360
like he won in court, but holy cow, we're gonna
1033
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:15.039
take this guy down. And then by the end they
1034
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.280
were like, well, shit, that's just a really sweet kind
1035
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:18.519
of human being, Like you know what I mean, Like
1036
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.159
they were involved that like started out wanting to take
1037
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.760
this dude down, you know, and they could, and then
1038
00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:26.280
they walked away from it being like, well, I guess
1039
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:28.280
we should just close these files because this guy's not
1040
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:29.400
gonna harm anybody ever.
1041
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:29.840
You know.
1042
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:34.760
But what the roundabout way of saying that when you
1043
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:39.559
say it stained his his legacy. It's so upsetting to
1044
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:43.559
me that Billboard, Rolling Stone or whomever can't start out
1045
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:47.760
a article without mentioning it, or they can't end it up,
1046
00:53:47.800 --> 00:53:50.440
you know, it's anniversary comes up a thriller, and they
1047
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:52.800
do this whole big article about it. Uh, and then
1048
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.239
it's got well and then remember in the time since
1049
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:56.800
you know that that the other thing was said, like
1050
00:53:56.840 --> 00:53:58.320
why why do you even you know what I mean?
1051
00:53:58.639 --> 00:53:59.760
Like, why not?
1052
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:02.880
Why has there never been a mainstream article about like, hey,
1053
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:04.559
did you know that there's all this other evidence you
1054
00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:07.320
should look into, you know what I mean? Like because
1055
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.719
and for me, and this directly ties in. I know,
1056
00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:12.119
it sounds like I'm going on a ramp, but this
1057
00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:14.079
ties into what you were talking about, Yeah, and.
1058
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:16.760
To what you're saying, Like I wasn't going to steer
1059
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:19.639
the conversation into this directly. It just sort of happened
1060
00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:22.079
organically because I don't want to necessarily be like, so
1061
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:24.719
Michael Jackson, like, let's get this out of the way first.
1062
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:25.800
Before we talk about Moonwalker.
1063
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:28.280
But for sure, yeah, we're here when you're talking about
1064
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:30.079
like the messaging in Moonwalker, and you know what the
1065
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:35.599
guy stood for, right, Yeah, when it amazes me that
1066
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:40.559
people don't see that Michael Jackson stood for unity, love,
1067
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:46.119
equality and being responsible for your actions. None of those
1068
00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:50.039
things benefit the media. The media makes all of their
1069
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:52.559
money off of the exact opposite of all those things,
1070
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:56.039
putting harmful things out there, turning people against each other,
1071
00:54:56.119 --> 00:54:58.920
making sure that you can making something out of nothing,
1072
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:04.280
and trying as much as possible to keep everyone fighting
1073
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:06.639
all the time, because even now it's it's just about
1074
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:09.920
every single click you can get in any way that
1075
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:14.519
you can get it. So it's much more effective for
1076
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:19.719
them to ignore correcting the narrative on him because it
1077
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:23.199
does not benefit them at all to have people think
1078
00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:25.480
that this, this person who was for all these good
1079
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:29.719
things could have even remotely been innocent, because that doesn't
1080
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:31.360
benefit them in any way, shape or form.
1081
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:33.000
So why would they bother? Right?
1082
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.880
Yeah, yeah, And I think a lot of a lot
1083
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.960
of people are also like, oh, but he settled these
1084
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:39.840
out of court, and why would he do that?
1085
00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:41.840
Well, because why wouldn't you just.
1086
00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:44.239
Wanted to get get rid of it, like get it
1087
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.239
off your because because then he settle a lot of
1088
00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:46.679
the cases.
1089
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:47.199
I know too.
1090
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:51.280
So so here's you No, here's the thing with that is,
1091
00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:53.559
and here's here's a This is one of the huge
1092
00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:56.480
things that people don't even understand because the number one
1093
00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:58.440
thing people always say is a, oh, well, why did
1094
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.559
he settle with that one kid? Because he did settle
1095
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:04.519
the first case So what happened with that is they
1096
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:09.000
had brought a civil case first, because at the time
1097
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:11.920
California law allowed you to go with a civil case first.
1098
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.440
You could you couldn't try you didn't have to go
1099
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:17.599
for a criminal trial first. Okay, So they brought a
1100
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:20.679
civil case against him for an undisclosed amount of money,
1101
00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:26.480
and Michael's lawyers said to him, you need to settle
1102
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.639
the civil case because if we give if we do
1103
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:32.239
your whole defense in civil court, you're going to win
1104
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:33.760
in civil court and you're not going to pay them
1105
00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:35.480
any money. But then they're going to sue you in
1106
00:56:35.480 --> 00:56:38.360
criminal court and the defense or the prosecution will already
1107
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:40.599
have our entire case and they will figure out how
1108
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:42.719
to beat you and you will go to prison for
1109
00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:44.800
something you didn't do. So you'll win in civil court
1110
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:47.119
and you will. So he said, well, I don't want
1111
00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:49.159
to give anybody any money. I didn't do this, and
1112
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.280
the lawyer said, yeah, but you pay to make that
1113
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:55.239
case go away. Give them the money they're asking for,
1114
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:57.679
and then when they go into criminal court, you'll get
1115
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.199
you'll get you'll get found guilty and the whole world
1116
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.199
will see this and it'll be good. He goes Okay, cool,
1117
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.320
it's still good advice. It's correct advice. What the ones did.
1118
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:09.039
So he paid to have the civil go suit go away,
1119
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:12.280
and you're never going to guess what happened. The family
1120
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.760
once they got their money, didn't pursue criminal charges. Let
1121
00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:18.400
me ask you this, if the pop star touched your child,
1122
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:21.079
is there any dollar amount that would make you not
1123
00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:22.280
file criminal charges?
1124
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:23.480
Right exactly?
1125
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:27.800
And so the other cases that came about never went further.
1126
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:30.480
And that's why people say, oh, well he paid it off.
1127
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:33.400
He didn't pay it off. California law changed. You had
1128
00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:36.320
to go for criminal charges first and then you could
1129
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:40.079
go get civil after. So the other accusers that came
1130
00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:42.280
for it, it never went any further because as soon
1131
00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:45.800
as they started in motion with the law, the courts
1132
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:47.719
were like, there's nothing here like this.
1133
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:50.000
We can't prosecute this case. Okay.
1134
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:53.960
The one that there was some sort of way that
1135
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:55.639
they were able to push it through in court was
1136
00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:58.840
the two thousand and three case, and he was acquitted
1137
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:03.320
on all charges. But again, nobody remembers any of this,
1138
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:05.719
you know what I mean? And and and it's oh
1139
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:08.480
the media narrative is always, oh well, he paid for
1140
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:10.119
that case. Yeah, well, why did he pay for that
1141
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:13.719
case to go away? My question would be why didn't
1142
00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:16.960
these parents? Look, I tell people all the time, I
1143
00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:18.880
have Michael Jackson memorabiliy in my house. I told you,
1144
00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:22.159
I have that Moonwalker cabinet in my living room. If
1145
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:24.480
Michael Jackson touched my kid, you know how much Michael
1146
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:26.920
Jackson memorabilia I'd have in this house. I would I
1147
00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:29.599
would have a body part in a jar. And when
1148
00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:32.440
people would what is that, Oh, that's Michael Jackson's hand. Yeah,
1149
00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:33.280
I mean, what do you mean?
1150
00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:33.639
I would know?
1151
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:36.079
Yeah, he touched my kids, so I and he now
1152
00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:38.400
no longer has a hand like that's yeah, I would
1153
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:42.880
there would be violence, you know, and there would be
1154
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:45.599
no dollar amount that you could give me to make
1155
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:47.880
that go away. So, and by the way, I should
1156
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:49.719
say this because I'll I have to stop myself from
1157
00:58:49.719 --> 00:58:51.760
continuing to rant on this, because I'd like to get
1158
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:53.519
back to more of the joyful stuff to do with Michael.
1159
00:58:54.280 --> 00:58:56.760
What I've just told you, those those couple of things
1160
00:58:56.920 --> 00:58:59.000
that's scratching the surface for how.
1161
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:02.519
Yeah, I'm sure it's.
1162
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:06.800
Just it's also people the media or whoever, just people
1163
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:11.000
in general. I don't think they can conceive of the
1164
00:59:11.079 --> 00:59:16.119
fact that he he his And again he talks about
1165
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:18.840
it a lot in a lot of his music. His
1166
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:23.639
childhood was not ideal. It was so he I think,
1167
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.960
doesn't he didn't see anything wrong with that, Like, you know,
1168
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:30.960
he was hanging out with kids, he was being friendly
1169
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:33.599
and hanging out and just like playing. Like you get
1170
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:35.800
a scene in this movie where they're like running through
1171
00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:37.960
the woods. There's no other adults, it's just Michael, and
1172
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:41.000
he's he's one of the kids in that in that way,
1173
00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:45.280
that's he views it that innocently, you know, and and
1174
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:49.000
other people can't help but see that and twist it
1175
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.119
and turn it and pervert it into something else. And
1176
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.000
it's just upsetting to me that something that pure can
1177
00:59:57.039 --> 00:59:59.159
get kind of twisted.
1178
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:00.440
Around and use it.
1179
01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:03.800
It's very It's very when you see things like like
1180
01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:06.760
the video for Childhood, which I don't know if I'm
1181
01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:08.280
going to put it in my sex it's like right
1182
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:11.920
on the outskirts because I love that video. Or you know,
1183
01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:14.599
you see that statement in ninety three that when he said,
1184
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:17.440
like I've done nothing, you know, I've done nothing but
1185
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:18.440
try and help people.
1186
01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:19.800
And he's like getting emotional.
1187
01:00:21.039 --> 01:00:24.119
It's it's it's just yeah, it's we take a good
1188
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:27.559
thing and we snuff it out. That's absolutely that's how
1189
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:29.800
humanity operates a lot of times.
1190
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:32.840
And it's it's it's a bummer, Yeah.
1191
01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:35.960
It's it's it's it's it's a wildly upsetting and that's
1192
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:39.079
and to bring this all full circle, that literally everything
1193
01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:41.360
we just said is that's all of that is one
1194
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:44.760
of the reasons why I am. I remain in a
1195
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:49.239
constant state of uh, just in awe of being able
1196
01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:52.000
to put out the History album and just being able
1197
01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:54.400
to be like, you know, because on the same record,
1198
01:00:54.440 --> 01:00:58.199
he's like very directly addressing what like we said, well
1199
01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:01.599
certainly not Time Steddon, but some with a similar name, right,
1200
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:04.039
But then things like scream and like he's stranger in
1201
01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:06.960
Moscow childhood. But then there's still like heal the world
1202
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:10.039
or not Heal the World Earth song, you know, and
1203
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:14.880
and and smile, Like the guy's just like, well, there's
1204
01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:16.840
nothing worse that could happen to a human being what
1205
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:18.719
I did. But I'm going to tell you to still smile,
1206
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:21.360
you know, or like I'm still going to care about
1207
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:23.719
saving the planet. You know that that I won't even
1208
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:26.760
be here for you know, like but like you said,
1209
01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:30.519
it's just, uh, that's why I end up every single
1210
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.639
time I listen to that record. I'm just I think
1211
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:35.199
I get more in awe that every time I listen
1212
01:01:35.239 --> 01:01:35.480
to it.
1213
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:41.079
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so many, so many great songs For
1214
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:45.800
these rankings I've been doing. I've been doing the six
1215
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:49.280
songs from the film. But because this film isn't so
1216
01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:52.320
much it's it doesn't have as many songs as like
1217
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:53.239
a standard musical.
1218
01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:55.440
There's the retrospective and there's a few here and there.
1219
01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:58.880
I thought, well, let's take a step back and in
1220
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:02.000
a kind of review his career as a whole. We've
1221
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:04.639
done a pretty good job doing that so far. Lots
1222
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.199
of great songs in his catalog, obviously, But let's talk
1223
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:11.199
about six. Let's talk about six, baby, Let's talk about
1224
01:02:11.239 --> 01:02:12.199
flicks and me.
1225
01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:15.400
Let's talk about what the good films and the bad
1226
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:20.400
films up to me. Let's talk about six. Let's talk
1227
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:21.079
about six.
1228
01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:25.599
What do you have at number six for us, I
1229
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:27.079
believe it or not, on this lest I have two
1230
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:30.599
things from Moonwalk that appear in Moonwalker, and at number
1231
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:31.880
six for me is leave me alone?
1232
01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:33.719
Nice for the.
1233
01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:37.280
Obviously, I think that what a bold video to make
1234
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.119
at that time, like just literally going, hey, I'm not
1235
01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:43.840
an idiot. I see every single thing you guys say
1236
01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:47.239
about me, and here's how insanely ridiculous all of those
1237
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.320
things look side by side by side.
1238
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:54.519
Yeah, and doing it in that style as well, with
1239
01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:58.239
all the with the stop motion elements, with and tackling
1240
01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:03.280
the elephant, blunt bones and the shrine to list his.
1241
01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:07.519
Tailor and all the room, Like it's such a visual feast.
1242
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.239
You're just like so much.
1243
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:14.159
It really is something like like like you said, just
1244
01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:17.119
all the different elements going on and everything is uh
1245
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:21.679
is really something like even the the like you said,
1246
01:03:21.679 --> 01:03:23.920
the elephant man, like the stop motion dancing that he's
1247
01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:26.360
doing with the with the elephant, any of the symbolism
1248
01:03:26.360 --> 01:03:28.079
in that where he's got to ball and chain, you know,
1249
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:30.000
he's like a prisoner of what's going on, but he's
1250
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.639
still being him, you know, and he's still It's just
1251
01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:34.920
incredible And even I think that symbolism at the end,
1252
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.159
ever since the first time I saw it, I love
1253
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:38.719
at the very end where he just gets up and
1254
01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:42.440
busts out of the the carnival going out around him
1255
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:43.920
and is standing tall above everything else.
1256
01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:45.039
What a statement.
1257
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:51.199
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, we might. We might hear from Lema
1258
01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:55.519
alone again on this on this ranking. So yeah, it's
1259
01:03:56.360 --> 01:04:00.000
evaluating his career and doing a top six music vie
1260
01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:05.039
deos was very hard for me. I mean, it's my
1261
01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:07.800
short list was like fifteen just to be like, well,
1262
01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:08.960
it's going to be some of these.
1263
01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:12.360
After I got a message from you this morning, I
1264
01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:14.000
was sitting in my office. My wife and I both
1265
01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:16.199
worked from home. She came in my office and she goes,
1266
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:18.760
she goes, what's going on. I said, I have to
1267
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:22.320
rank my top six Michael Jackson videos for the episode tonight.
1268
01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:27.119
And my wife goes, oh my god. She was like no.
1269
01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:29.719
I was like, yes, I'm just straught.
1270
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:36.599
So I considered a bunch of different ones. I ultimately
1271
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.599
went with black or white for my number six. And
1272
01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:42.800
I think I think the reason is part of part
1273
01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:45.320
of what we said earlier that we was such a
1274
01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:49.079
moment and mind you, I'm this was ninety one right
1275
01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:53.119
and ninety one two when this came, so I was
1276
01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:56.360
eight going on nine at that time.
1277
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.559
So I was like, ideal age be like.
1278
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:04.400
Enthralled by by this music, by this again another album
1279
01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:06.320
that I had a cassette before I had it on CD.
1280
01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:12.280
It's just such a celebration of everything he's done so far,
1281
01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:14.960
the visuals, the yeah, go ahead.
1282
01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:19.840
Well, I you talk about taking control of the situation,
1283
01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:23.599
here's a guy who had an autoimmune He had two
1284
01:05:23.639 --> 01:05:26.119
different automune diseases, by the way, he suffered from lupus
1285
01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:30.559
and from vidilago. Here's a guy who literally tried to
1286
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:33.679
tell the world no, I have this disease though, like,
1287
01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:36.880
and the world would like, but we have decided to
1288
01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:39.599
not believe you. We have decided to just believe all
1289
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:42.440
these crazy stories instead. And he was like, but really though,
1290
01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:44.079
it's and they were like, no, no, no, thank you,
1291
01:05:44.119 --> 01:05:45.719
we don't want that excuse, you know what I mean,
1292
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:49.320
and which is it's so such a painful thing. But
1293
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:53.920
even on his autopsy they actually, uh finally confirmed yes
1294
01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:57.320
he wasn't lying and he did have vitiligo his entire life.
1295
01:05:57.639 --> 01:06:03.719
But you talk about taking control of the narrative, man, like, oh, okay,
1296
01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:05.679
you guys are gonna talk in to the media all
1297
01:06:05.719 --> 01:06:07.079
the time about how I used to be so black
1298
01:06:07.079 --> 01:06:08.880
and non white. Well, here comes a song called black
1299
01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:11.599
or White and in the song, I'm going to turn
1300
01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:15.599
it into look at all of these different all of
1301
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:17.920
these different cultures and everything, and how we can all
1302
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:19.880
try and understand each other more. One of my favorite
1303
01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:21.280
lines is in that rap in the middle of the
1304
01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:23.280
song where he says, I seen the bright get dullar,
1305
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:24.800
I'm not going to spend my life being a color.
1306
01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:25.320
Yeah.
1307
01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:28.800
I like, like, why are you guys so preoccupied with
1308
01:06:28.840 --> 01:06:31.599
the color of my skin? Because I'm certainly not. And
1309
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:34.320
like you said, it's it's so visually done well in
1310
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:34.800
that video.
1311
01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:37.400
And then you have Macaulay Culkin, one of the world's
1312
01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:40.239
biggest movie stars at that time. This is fresh off
1313
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:42.800
of Home Alone. I think going into Home Alone too?
1314
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:46.159
Is that heavy D doing the rap there as well?
1315
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:49.119
I believe No, that's another one.
1316
01:06:52.159 --> 01:06:52.480
I don't.
1317
01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:54.800
I just I just looked that up how long ago
1318
01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:58.280
it's I think it's just a studio. It's not a
1319
01:06:58.280 --> 01:07:00.440
famous rapper, let me put it that way, right.
1320
01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:04.239
And then obviously it's famous for the morphing sequence at
1321
01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:06.719
the end, which people like to talk about, which still
1322
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:10.599
looks great. It looks still holds up today. I think
1323
01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:12.320
one of the images that always stands out to me
1324
01:07:12.519 --> 01:07:15.400
is the two babies, the white baby and the black
1325
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:17.519
baby sitting on on the earth.
1326
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:19.280
That's come on.
1327
01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:23.320
And again so at the end, you know, then the
1328
01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:27.039
panther sequence and everything right, and of course the following day,
1329
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:29.079
what does the media choose to focus on? Not the
1330
01:07:29.079 --> 01:07:31.159
two babies sitting on the earth, not all that, you know,
1331
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:33.159
they're like, oh man, he hit a car?
1332
01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:34.599
How dare you? You know?
1333
01:07:34.679 --> 01:07:37.719
You're like, okay, well you got you guys are going
1334
01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:39.480
to have your way with what like how do you
1335
01:07:39.559 --> 01:07:41.239
miss the four minutes before that?
1336
01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:44.159
Right? You know? And in the I don't.
1337
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:47.400
I think they removed it digitally and later at some
1338
01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:49.760
point down the line. But it was also him smashing
1339
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:55.079
like at racial slurs. I think Swastika's things like that.
1340
01:07:57.280 --> 01:07:59.559
Because if you're gonna censor something, that's definitely what you
1341
01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:00.159
should say.
1342
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:06.079
Right exactly censer what all the aggression is actually towards?
1343
01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:08.519
What do you have? At number five?
1344
01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:14.159
Another one that was a big TV premiere at that time,
1345
01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:16.479
and it's also from The Dangerous LP remember the time,
1346
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.439
that whole thing and for me, if you if you
1347
01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:25.760
watch the very long version of it where uh Eddie
1348
01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:28.920
Murphy brings in all the people to entertain him, and
1349
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:32.720
and it's very it's hilarious how they all keep getting
1350
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.319
taken out of commission for lack of a better term. Uh,
1351
01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:39.439
and then Michael just comes in and is not concerned
1352
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:42.800
with entertaining Eddie Murphy at all. He's way more concerned
1353
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:47.680
with stealing his woman. And I think the uh, the
1354
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:52.239
dance sequence in that is so underrated, like the group
1355
01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:54.319
because almost every MJ's videos at least at some point
1356
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:56.800
is going to have a group dance video thing. Yeah,
1357
01:08:56.840 --> 01:08:59.640
of course, I think the dance in that is so
1358
01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:04.079
to rate it. I think he worked in like very
1359
01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:09.119
common Egyptian imagery into his dancing.
1360
01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:12.079
That was awesome, I agree. Yeah.
1361
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:16.720
Choreographed by Fatima Robinson. No relation, right, yeah, yeah, I
1362
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:19.920
believe it or not. No, And I'm one of his
1363
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:23.640
more one of his most star studed videos as well
1364
01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:26.640
with Emon and obviously Eddie Murphy, Magic Johnson, and et
1365
01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:29.760
cetera in that video directed by John Singleton.
1366
01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:32.439
That's the other thing. A lot of these videos were
1367
01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:36.479
directed by like Martin Scorsese and like Spike Lee and
1368
01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:41.000
like you, like real filmmakers, not just whoever. Happened to
1369
01:09:41.720 --> 01:09:44.279
your transition from commercials to music videos or something.
1370
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:46.439
Yeah, it doesn't count as a music video in my book.
1371
01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:49.520
But the Disney Tian that he had with Captain EO,
1372
01:09:49.840 --> 01:09:52.319
it's like yes, it's like okay, so who's working on
1373
01:09:52.359 --> 01:09:53.079
that again? Well?
1374
01:09:53.479 --> 01:09:58.560
Uh Popola? Oh yeah? And who else? Lucas? Oh yeah?
1375
01:09:58.560 --> 01:09:58.920
Who else?
1376
01:09:59.000 --> 01:09:59.119
Oh?
1377
01:09:59.239 --> 01:09:59.720
Landis?
1378
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:02.199
Oh oh? Just those three guys. That's the only three
1379
01:10:02.239 --> 01:10:04.439
you could drum up, you know, sorrying?
1380
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:07.399
Who again? Who's co starring? Oh? Angelica Houston? Yeah.
1381
01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:13.880
Like people, there's a phrase people always say all the time,
1382
01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:18.600
this generation is Michael Jackson. There ain't no such thing.
1383
01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:20.960
There ain't nobody who's going to accomplish a fourth of
1384
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:23.199
what that guy like you said, like ohen, who's starring
1385
01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:23.399
in it?
1386
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:25.319
Well? Just Angelic then? Why right?
1387
01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:30.680
Speaking of the the Michael Jackson estate, where is like
1388
01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:34.199
any home video release of Captain EO? Like a lot
1389
01:10:34.199 --> 01:10:36.239
of these things you could see on YouTube, but it's
1390
01:10:36.520 --> 01:10:40.159
crappy quality, Like give me a four K of like
1391
01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:43.239
some of these things that are inaccessible at home.
1392
01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:46.520
Yep. I would do for a long time.
1393
01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:50.239
After he passed, they brought it back at Disney like
1394
01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:52.399
it was back in the parks, and I thought for
1395
01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:55.159
sure when they uh had when it when it ran
1396
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.359
its course again and they and they took it back
1397
01:10:57.359 --> 01:10:57.960
out of the parks.
1398
01:10:58.079 --> 01:10:59.920
I thought for sure there'd be a home release of it,
1399
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:02.239
but no, right that would make sense.
1400
01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:04.720
Michael Jackson Estate is the epitome of this is why
1401
01:11:04.760 --> 01:11:06.359
we can't have nice things?
1402
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:08.319
Yeah, just very much so.
1403
01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:11.640
My number five, I have Earth Song, which we referenced
1404
01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:14.640
earlier for my for my rankings, I was trying to
1405
01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:17.000
go with ones like it was hard. It's hard for
1406
01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:21.000
me obviously with Michael Jackson to separate the the video
1407
01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:23.439
from the song. And like some of the songs that
1408
01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:26.159
I would listen re listen to the most might not
1409
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:30.239
necessarily have as strong of videos as you know, other
1410
01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:34.039
other songs on on. Yeah, So with Earth Song, I
1411
01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:35.960
think is a great example to like to listen to.
1412
01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:40.840
I do listen to it often, but the video is
1413
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:43.000
makes it so much stronger, Like the power in that
1414
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:46.560
song is even more so in the video. Just very
1415
01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:52.239
powerful imagery. There's you know, animals and and people, you know,
1416
01:11:52.279 --> 01:11:55.199
getting people who've lost their lives in war and like
1417
01:11:55.600 --> 01:12:00.159
landscapes destroyed, and then there's Michael Jackson, Like especially when
1418
01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:02.359
you get towards the end and he's like holding onto
1419
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:05.039
the trees. And this is another video that I don't
1420
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:07.640
think I saw when it came out. It was years
1421
01:12:07.720 --> 01:12:10.880
later when they would do like's a ormous hit all
1422
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:13.279
over Planet Earth? Yeah, stept four America.
1423
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:15.880
Yeah, Yeah, exactly exactly.
1424
01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:17.760
I think it's one of those that I sort of
1425
01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:20.960
found later where they would do like, you know, a
1426
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:23.800
special or whatever about Michael Jackson's career and you'd see
1427
01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:26.520
like one shot from this video and I'd.
1428
01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:28.560
Be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that? Back it up?
1429
01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:31.800
Where was that? I didn't see that on MTV in
1430
01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:32.920
the in the mid nineties.
1431
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.359
That's how I came in the Ghosts actually was I
1432
01:12:36.359 --> 01:12:38.199
can't remember. Somewhere along the line I saw something where
1433
01:12:38.199 --> 01:12:39.920
there was and I was like, wait, what was that?
1434
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:41.079
Yeah?
1435
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:45.359
Yeah exactly. Yeah, So people definitely need to search out
1436
01:12:45.399 --> 01:12:49.720
Earth Song. I think that is an incredible video, and
1437
01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:54.960
it's also I think a nice companion piece Slash like
1438
01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:57.199
others the other side of the coin for something like
1439
01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:01.560
Heal the World, where it's him being being inspiring and
1440
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:04.399
trying to get a call to action, and this is
1441
01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:06.239
just him just like raging out.
1442
01:13:06.319 --> 01:13:07.479
What about it? Yeah?
1443
01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:11.000
Yeah, it's an amazing song. So I was like, well,
1444
01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:13.840
that's going on there? What did you have at number four?
1445
01:13:14.359 --> 01:13:16.600
Number four is cheating because there's two videos for this song,
1446
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:19.960
and I'm entering both at number four. They don't care
1447
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:21.840
about us, and I don't care which version, the Brazil
1448
01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:25.640
version or the prison version. I like both versions equally.
1449
01:13:25.640 --> 01:13:29.960
They both say they both interpret the song in completely
1450
01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:34.479
different ways, which I think is incredible because that song
1451
01:13:34.600 --> 01:13:37.640
itself is very, very pointed, and then to come up
1452
01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:40.399
with two different visuals for the song to give it
1453
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:43.560
two completely different interpretations, I think is amazing.
1454
01:13:43.600 --> 01:13:45.720
I like both of them just the same.
1455
01:13:46.319 --> 01:13:50.239
Yeah, it's an incredible song and videos both directed by
1456
01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:51.119
Spike Lee.
1457
01:13:51.159 --> 01:13:51.800
We should mention.
1458
01:13:52.039 --> 01:13:55.239
Yeah, yeah, you know Spike Lee heard of him?
1459
01:13:55.560 --> 01:13:57.760
Yeah no, yeah, you may have never heard of him,
1460
01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:01.479
but he's been yeah exactly.
1461
01:14:01.640 --> 01:14:04.159
My number four had leave Me Alone, which I've already
1462
01:14:04.199 --> 01:14:06.479
touched on, and I was like, well that's you know,
1463
01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:09.039
you're trying to touch your bases. You like, what did
1464
01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:14.399
Michael Jackson stand for? He was very outspoken towards the press.
1465
01:14:14.439 --> 01:14:18.640
He was very environmentally aware and conscious and trying to
1466
01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:20.640
spread that message as well. So I was like I
1467
01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:22.760
was trying to work in some of his sort of
1468
01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:25.520
core themes into my ranking as well. What did you
1469
01:14:25.560 --> 01:14:26.479
have at number three?
1470
01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:30.399
We've discussed this to a certain extent, but Smooth Criminal
1471
01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:32.439
comes in, and actually it's funny. Well, I know we'll
1472
01:14:32.439 --> 01:14:34.279
get there. My two in my one are probably no
1473
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:37.680
one else's number two and number one. I'm really curious. Yeah,
1474
01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:39.960
but neither of them are thriller. I'll put it that way.
1475
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:42.119
I don't I don't mind thriller, but it's not in
1476
01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.159
my top. But Smooth Criminal is at number three for me,
1477
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:48.279
and that's because of what we talked about earlier. Like,
1478
01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:51.119
you know, one of the things you have to remember
1479
01:14:51.159 --> 01:14:53.840
about the Bad Era is what else was going on
1480
01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:56.319
in music at the time. And I don't even like
1481
01:14:56.359 --> 01:14:59.520
the term hair metal. I'm an enormous fan of that genre.
1482
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:02.960
I don't like that term, but everyone knows that that's
1483
01:15:02.960 --> 01:15:05.800
what was going on at that time. So your warrant, poison,
1484
01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:09.439
skid Row, you know, Tesla, all that stuff was that's
1485
01:15:09.479 --> 01:15:13.239
what was happening on MTV, And so you have, like
1486
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:18.560
MTV is loaded with young white guys with a hair
1487
01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:21.720
down past their shoulders, all of them in leather and
1488
01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:24.319
all of them singing about women or whatever. And then
1489
01:15:24.359 --> 01:15:27.399
the only video playing on MTV is this twenty minute
1490
01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:34.399
gangster piece from you know, a Black Gentleman and completely
1491
01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:37.720
different on every single level than everything else that was
1492
01:15:37.760 --> 01:15:40.119
going on on the channel the other twenty three hours
1493
01:15:40.199 --> 01:15:43.479
of the day. Now, it's just it's just stunning to me.
1494
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:46.199
And then of course, I mean, like, if if aliens
1495
01:15:46.239 --> 01:15:48.840
came down to Earth and asked, you know, like what
1496
01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:51.039
we need to know more about Michael Jackson, I would
1497
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:54.800
show them the Lean, you know, like, be like, this
1498
01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:58.119
is the finest of our offerings. One time this guy
1499
01:15:58.159 --> 01:15:59.039
did the lean, you know.
1500
01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.960
Yeah, exactly. No, well we'll get there. I'm not We're
1501
01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:06.960
not done with Smith. Criminal number three. I have scream
1502
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:12.560
Michael Jackson coming off again, the mission statement of History.
1503
01:16:13.159 --> 01:16:15.760
It's a it's a primal scream that follows all the
1504
01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:18.479
everything he was dealing with leading up to the release
1505
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:22.359
of this album, his one and only collaboration with his
1506
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:25.439
sister Janet Jackson, who again was also at kind of
1507
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:29.520
around the height of her powers around that time. One
1508
01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:32.279
of the most expensive videos ever made. Looks incredible, The
1509
01:16:32.359 --> 01:16:35.640
choreography is incredible, is just raw motion on display from
1510
01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:38.039
both of them, and also just the novelty of seeing
1511
01:16:38.079 --> 01:16:42.119
these two hugely popular entertainers together on screen inhabiting the
1512
01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:45.760
same space. I was like, well, I gotta I gotta
1513
01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:46.960
squeeze scream in there.
1514
01:16:47.479 --> 01:16:47.680
You know.
1515
01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:50.239
Funny when you grew up in the world the way
1516
01:16:50.239 --> 01:16:52.640
it was. I mean, of course, you know Janet and
1517
01:16:52.640 --> 01:16:55.720
Michael are brother and sister, but at the time, you
1518
01:16:55.720 --> 01:16:57.720
never you wouldn't equate it constant, like when you saw
1519
01:16:57.800 --> 01:17:01.159
Jana Jackson a video or her go show, you wouldn't
1520
01:17:01.159 --> 01:17:03.119
just go, oh, that's Michael Jackson's sister, like you would
1521
01:17:03.159 --> 01:17:06.359
think of her Jackson Jackson. And in that video was
1522
01:17:06.359 --> 01:17:08.119
the was one of the first times where I was like,
1523
01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:11.359
holy crap, they they're siblings, like you know, like I
1524
01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:13.600
never put that together. Really, It's like how much talent
1525
01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:14.560
do you need one family?
1526
01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:15.840
Come on? Exactly?
1527
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:18.920
It would be like, now to your equivalent, there is
1528
01:17:18.960 --> 01:17:21.159
no to your point, there is no equivalent to Michael Jackson.
1529
01:17:21.439 --> 01:17:24.920
But like be like what I now you know Taylor
1530
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:27.680
Swift and Lady Gaga like they were sisters the whole
1531
01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:30.600
time or something like they were like the two biggest
1532
01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:34.479
stars Beyonce or something I don't know, no, I know, yeah,
1533
01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:35.760
it's it's it is funny.
1534
01:17:37.079 --> 01:17:40.079
What did you have at number two? Okay at number two?
1535
01:17:40.119 --> 01:17:41.800
And again I don't think anybody would put this up
1536
01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:44.760
in there top, but beat It for me is a
1537
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:47.319
huge thing because first of all, it's the it's the
1538
01:17:47.319 --> 01:17:48.640
first song I ever heard by him.
1539
01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:51.920
But the video is so iconic.
1540
01:17:52.039 --> 01:17:56.039
Like I again, when I saw that in the very
1541
01:17:56.119 --> 01:18:01.119
infancy of MTV, it was so much such a higher
1542
01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:06.000
bar than anything else on the channel. Everything else on
1543
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:13.880
the channel was mostly videotaped one camera affairs for the artists,
1544
01:18:14.039 --> 01:18:17.119
you know, whoever the cars or whomever to be standing
1545
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:19.920
in one spot doing their song, you know, and then like,
1546
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:24.760
here's Michael Jackson with this whole Hollywood production and this huge,
1547
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:27.800
huge story in a in a three and a half
1548
01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:30.279
minute song about these two gangs, and how like you know,
1549
01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:34.800
in the in the messaging behind it, and I think
1550
01:18:35.359 --> 01:18:38.119
that the beat at Jacket, I think it's just iconic,
1551
01:18:38.319 --> 01:18:41.640
and you know, the whole thing is just incredible. And
1552
01:18:42.680 --> 01:18:45.239
one one of my favorite stories about it is that
1553
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:53.560
legendarily Michael invited actual gang members to the set because
1554
01:18:54.520 --> 01:18:56.920
he was like, well, the people kept saying no, you
1555
01:18:56.920 --> 01:18:59.000
don't understand, like these guys will kill each other, Like
1556
01:18:59.039 --> 01:19:02.960
we can't have these gangs on set. And Michael was like, yeah,
1557
01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:04.760
but when they get here, we'll just explain it to
1558
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:07.800
them that, like they shouldn't be fighting anymore, right, Yeah,
1559
01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:13.960
And everybody was like, no, but in the film there
1560
01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:17.520
are in the short film, there are actually actual gang
1561
01:19:17.560 --> 01:19:21.119
members in there in the film, because he was just like, yeah,
1562
01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:21.880
but when they get here.
1563
01:19:21.760 --> 01:19:25.840
We'll just tell them to be nice. You know that's great? Well, yeah,
1564
01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:27.560
I love it. I absolutely love that film.
1565
01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:33.439
People underestimate the impact that beat it, but also Billy
1566
01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:37.880
Jean had on essentially the invention of the music video.
1567
01:19:39.039 --> 01:19:42.600
And then you know, my number two thriller, I think
1568
01:19:42.720 --> 01:19:46.880
sort of crystallize that as these are not just stand
1569
01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:50.159
in front of a camera, you know. I it was
1570
01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:53.279
in early contention, I was considering something like rock with You,
1571
01:19:53.399 --> 01:19:57.479
because this is just Michael Jackson. Yeah, this is Michael
1572
01:19:57.560 --> 01:20:01.399
Jackson a microphone, a camera, some in a shiny outfit,
1573
01:20:01.439 --> 01:20:04.920
and yet he's so magnetic that I was almost like,
1574
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:08.079
do I put that in my six Like I considered
1575
01:20:08.119 --> 01:20:08.680
it for a minute.
1576
01:20:08.720 --> 01:20:10.760
Then I well know I had the exact same thought
1577
01:20:10.760 --> 01:20:11.399
that's funny.
1578
01:20:11.680 --> 01:20:15.840
Yeah, yeah, it's he the Thriller album and by the
1579
01:20:15.880 --> 01:20:21.119
extension those two leading into the Thriller video, it changed
1580
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:21.520
the core.
1581
01:20:21.640 --> 01:20:23.159
It changed the art form completely.
1582
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:27.520
Like it it created the modern music video and taught
1583
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:29.600
artists that you don't have to just it's not just
1584
01:20:29.720 --> 01:20:33.840
like a concert performance. There's a lot more intentionality and
1585
01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:37.399
storytelling and it you can dig into your music, your
1586
01:20:37.479 --> 01:20:42.159
messaging and sort of shape your career so much through
1587
01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:45.359
the visual side of it that it's like, it's hard
1588
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:50.319
to imagine music now without that sort of trickle down
1589
01:20:50.359 --> 01:20:51.439
effect that that had.
1590
01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:55.000
Absolutely, and I would say even though obviously music video
1591
01:20:55.199 --> 01:21:00.199
by and large is no longer all that needed with
1592
01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:02.359
with the way that things have gone, I know a
1593
01:21:02.359 --> 01:21:04.600
lot of us still do. But what you notice now
1594
01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:07.840
is a lot of artists will do like visual companions
1595
01:21:07.880 --> 01:21:08.600
to their album.
1596
01:21:08.760 --> 01:21:09.560
Which is it.
1597
01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:12.600
It never have been a thing even remotely. No one
1598
01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:14.880
else would have even remotely thought of that unless Michael
1599
01:21:14.920 --> 01:21:16.359
Jackson had done it first.
1600
01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:20.560
Right, Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, I mean and even you know,
1601
01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:23.119
we were mentioning some of the home video releases there
1602
01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:26.079
there is the dangerous the short films where he has
1603
01:21:26.159 --> 01:21:30.079
basically a short film for I think pretty much every
1604
01:21:30.079 --> 01:21:31.720
track on that album.
1605
01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:33.359
More or less given. Is it all of them?
1606
01:21:33.439 --> 01:21:35.199
Or is like it's like it's maybe one or two,
1607
01:21:35.359 --> 01:21:38.359
it's most of them. Yeah, It's like, yeah, so he
1608
01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:41.319
kind of had that covered already. What did you have
1609
01:21:41.359 --> 01:21:42.720
a number one? I'm excited to hear that.
1610
01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:45.199
Okay, So I don't think anybody would pick this one
1611
01:21:45.279 --> 01:21:48.560
for me, but the way you make me feel, I
1612
01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:52.920
think the style in this video is off the charts.
1613
01:21:53.640 --> 01:21:57.159
The way that it starts where he's standing there and
1614
01:21:57.199 --> 01:22:00.000
she walks by him, and he looks like, are you
1615
01:22:00.039 --> 01:22:02.399
hidding me? Like you you really just want you know?
1616
01:22:02.880 --> 01:22:06.039
And the hey, you know, and he walks over to her,
1617
01:22:06.079 --> 01:22:08.920
and then the a cappella you knocked me off on
1618
01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:11.720
my feet, you know, and that kicks in. I mean,
1619
01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:19.079
holy cow, that whole it's it's there's so much stop
1620
01:22:19.159 --> 01:22:22.039
and again another completely like if you look at the
1621
01:22:22.079 --> 01:22:25.479
Bad era alone, his look in the Bad video, his
1622
01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:28.520
look in Dirty Diana is looking in Smooth Criminal is
1623
01:22:28.640 --> 01:22:32.520
looking this, They're all completely different. And I would argue
1624
01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:35.199
no one on planet Earth could just unbutton a blue
1625
01:22:35.199 --> 01:22:39.159
shirt and have people be like and have people be like, dang,
1626
01:22:39.600 --> 01:22:41.800
you know, but like he's just standing there in black
1627
01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:44.000
pants in a regular blue button down shirt and he
1628
01:22:44.079 --> 01:22:45.199
just makes it look cool.
1629
01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:48.600
Yeah. Yeah, now that's a great that's a great pick.
1630
01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:50.319
I just I don't think anybody, I don't think it's
1631
01:22:50.319 --> 01:22:52.800
anyone else's vorit MJ video. But and of course, if
1632
01:22:52.840 --> 01:22:54.399
you ask me this again tomorrow, I'm probably gonna have
1633
01:22:54.439 --> 01:22:57.560
the whole and everything. But I just I have always
1634
01:22:57.680 --> 01:22:59.560
loved the intro to that video and then when it
1635
01:22:59.640 --> 01:23:02.560
kicks off off just the whole the whole way. It's
1636
01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:04.319
done all fun and everything, and I like that the
1637
01:23:04.359 --> 01:23:06.880
woman is empowered in the video as well. Like again,
1638
01:23:07.279 --> 01:23:08.880
at the time that came out, the women were not
1639
01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:12.079
empowered in any other video on MTV. And that woman
1640
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:14.520
in that video, he's very much in pursuit of her.
1641
01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:16.520
It's not just oh, I'm a big deal and you're
1642
01:23:16.560 --> 01:23:19.079
gonna come to me. He's got to prove that he's
1643
01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:22.039
you know, that he's good enough for her or that
1644
01:23:22.079 --> 01:23:23.640
she should be attracted to him.
1645
01:23:23.640 --> 01:23:26.680
And again, no one else was doing that type of messaging.
1646
01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:30.079
Yeah, yeah, very true, very true. That's a great one.
1647
01:23:30.119 --> 01:23:32.880
That was definitely one I considered as well, might my
1648
01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:36.520
number one. I do have Smooth Criminal right, which again
1649
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:39.680
I feel like the popular choice is thriller. As you
1650
01:23:39.720 --> 01:23:43.600
sort of mentioned earlier, I prefer the Smooth Criminal the
1651
01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:46.960
night obviously the full length. I can't stand that sped
1652
01:23:47.039 --> 01:23:51.399
up monstrosity also have it's it's upsetting.
1653
01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:56.560
It's like they let a child at the editing software.
1654
01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:58.119
They were like, I don't know, do this The kid
1655
01:23:58.199 --> 01:24:02.439
just hit like skip frames or something, right, Yeah, stupid.
1656
01:24:02.359 --> 01:24:05.319
Especially when the pacing in that is so deliberate. The
1657
01:24:05.319 --> 01:24:11.239
coin goes across into the jukebox. It's I have been
1658
01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:14.000
I have been known to wear Fedora's and I feel
1659
01:24:14.039 --> 01:24:15.439
like it started because of this.
1660
01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:17.399
Criminal.
1661
01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:21.960
It's it is so much to do with his style
1662
01:24:22.079 --> 01:24:25.960
in this video, the the choreography that, like we mentioned,
1663
01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:28.239
when the lights go down there like heny are you
1664
01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:31.840
O okay? And it builds up again, which is such
1665
01:24:31.880 --> 01:24:34.760
a way to to take things down and then build
1666
01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:37.800
it up stronger than before. Builds up I think, builds
1667
01:24:37.880 --> 01:24:39.079
up into the lean.
1668
01:24:40.119 --> 01:24:40.960
Yeah yeah yeah.
1669
01:24:41.399 --> 01:24:44.520
And one other thing too, is and this bums me
1670
01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:46.960
out so much because I'm such a music collector. There
1671
01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:50.319
is an extra line in the video version of Smooth
1672
01:24:50.359 --> 01:24:54.239
Criminal that's not on the album, there's in the second verse,
1673
01:24:54.399 --> 01:24:57.079
it starts with an extra line that's not on the
1674
01:24:57.199 --> 01:25:01.520
album version of the song, and you cannot get that
1675
01:25:01.640 --> 01:25:05.920
version anywhere except for the video. It does not exist
1676
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:08.439
on a cassette single, on a seven inch single, on
1677
01:25:08.479 --> 01:25:10.600
a twelve inch reew weeks. I have been all over
1678
01:25:10.640 --> 01:25:13.279
the world looking for this. It does not exist, and
1679
01:25:13.399 --> 01:25:16.640
it's it's so minor. It's it's one extra line that
1680
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:20.880
starts the second verse instead of yeah, and the literally
1681
01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:23.039
the only place to hear it is in the video
1682
01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:26.000
version of the And I don't even know why that
1683
01:25:26.439 --> 01:25:29.159
why that line was cut from the from the album
1684
01:25:29.199 --> 01:25:31.279
or anything, I don't know. I mean, there's other things
1685
01:25:31.279 --> 01:25:32.880
in the video that I understand why they're done. Like,
1686
01:25:32.920 --> 01:25:36.079
for example, there's when he's up in the by the
1687
01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:39.239
pool table and stuff, there's like a instr it breaks
1688
01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:41.119
out to just an instrumental version of the song, so
1689
01:25:41.159 --> 01:25:43.479
you can hear like what's going on in him breaking
1690
01:25:43.520 --> 01:25:45.800
the ball and all that stuff. So I understand that stuff,
1691
01:25:45.800 --> 01:25:49.039
But like, I don't understand why there's one extra line
1692
01:25:49.119 --> 01:25:51.479
in the because it doesn't the line doesn't even have
1693
01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:53.319
to do with the narrative of the video or anything.
1694
01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:55.800
It's but it bums me out to no end that
1695
01:25:55.840 --> 01:25:58.720
you cannot just let like it's not on streaming, it's
1696
01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:02.279
never been on any release like they could. They could
1697
01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:04.520
release that is just that song as a seven inch
1698
01:26:04.600 --> 01:26:06.199
with that line, and I would pay like twenty five
1699
01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:08.680
dollars for it because it's always bummed me out that
1700
01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:09.960
I can't get that person.
1701
01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:14.680
But yeah, yeah, it's it's as pitch perfect as an
1702
01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:18.279
MG video has ever been in my opinion, Like the
1703
01:26:19.359 --> 01:26:23.079
it's it's also very playful. There's so much like he
1704
01:26:23.159 --> 01:26:25.560
goes up there, he's like breaking up a fight, he's
1705
01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:28.640
flipping the guy with the knife. He's like briefly romancing
1706
01:26:28.680 --> 01:26:31.399
a girl. Then he's you know, the guy is sneaking
1707
01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:33.439
up on him. He takes the gun out and shoots him.
1708
01:26:33.479 --> 01:26:37.000
He goes very cartoon style through the wall. And then
1709
01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:40.159
and then Michael dances over and it's like puts his
1710
01:26:40.239 --> 01:26:42.720
hat down and like goes shakesa like you're at it
1711
01:26:43.359 --> 01:26:46.520
so good. Then the shot that shot when he goes
1712
01:26:46.600 --> 01:26:48.960
right into when he's like you've been hit by a
1713
01:26:49.039 --> 01:26:52.319
smooth and the camera from above smooth criminal into it.
1714
01:26:53.479 --> 01:26:53.920
Amazing.
1715
01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:58.279
I told my wife that, you know, we live in
1716
01:26:58.319 --> 01:27:00.000
a very suburban area. But I said, if we ever
1717
01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:02.239
end up living in any sort of high rise, when
1718
01:27:02.279 --> 01:27:04.960
he takes the fire escape thing, and he like, yeah,
1719
01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:07.399
does this like dancing? I told her, I said, if
1720
01:27:07.399 --> 01:27:09.399
we ever lived that, I'm going to exit the house
1721
01:27:09.439 --> 01:27:10.680
that way every single time.
1722
01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:12.039
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
1723
01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:14.640
The other shot that I love, and this is so tiny,
1724
01:27:14.960 --> 01:27:18.760
but I think it's after the whole lean and everything,
1725
01:27:19.680 --> 01:27:23.760
and he he's got full control of the situation now
1726
01:27:23.800 --> 01:27:25.880
because he's done everything you just said. He's taken care
1727
01:27:25.920 --> 01:27:27.199
of all the bad people in there, and now he's
1728
01:27:27.199 --> 01:27:29.199
got everybody in the room out inside. And he looks
1729
01:27:29.279 --> 01:27:31.079
up and you can see the kids looking down from
1730
01:27:31.079 --> 01:27:34.199
outside looking at and he just quickly like winks at
1731
01:27:34.239 --> 01:27:36.439
him and nods his hat, like like I got this.
1732
01:27:36.920 --> 01:27:39.920
I love that shot of him. I think that's so cool.
1733
01:27:40.399 --> 01:27:44.680
Yeah, it's it's incredible. It's like to the point that
1734
01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:47.039
we're talking about it, and now, especially now that you
1735
01:27:47.079 --> 01:27:48.640
mentioned that extra line, and I'm like, I need to
1736
01:27:48.680 --> 01:27:51.119
make sure I double check what Russ is saying, because
1737
01:27:51.159 --> 01:27:54.920
now I want to rewatch it again. It's in a
1738
01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:59.640
career that is littered with an embarrassment of riches. When
1739
01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:02.439
it comes to his short films, his music videos, it
1740
01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:05.520
again feels reductive to call these music videos because there's
1741
01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:09.920
so much artistry, style, and intentionality behind it that it's
1742
01:28:09.920 --> 01:28:12.399
not just like, oh, let's just matter it together, we'll
1743
01:28:12.399 --> 01:28:13.520
shoot it in a day or two.
1744
01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:16.520
It's like there's a lot, there's a lot more involved here,
1745
01:28:16.600 --> 01:28:16.760
you know.
1746
01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:19.119
Funny that, Yeah, this goes way back to what you
1747
01:28:19.119 --> 01:28:22.560
were talking about earlier, with like the the self res
1748
01:28:22.600 --> 01:28:26.880
reverential or the self celebration. Kurt Loader used to constantly
1749
01:28:26.920 --> 01:28:28.880
make fun of the fact that Michael Jackson would call
1750
01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:31.720
his videos short films. Like Kurt Loader would just be like,
1751
01:28:31.720 --> 01:28:33.840
oh yeah, oh I'm sorry short films, you know, which.
1752
01:28:33.880 --> 01:28:35.439
I love Kurt Loader, but it used to crack me up.
1753
01:28:35.479 --> 01:28:40.640
I was smug giving about MJ. But like, my thing is,
1754
01:28:41.039 --> 01:28:44.359
Michael was like, no, these literally are short films. Though
1755
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:46.600
it's not like he was just making music videos like
1756
01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:48.119
everyone else was, and he's like, well, you have to
1757
01:28:48.119 --> 01:28:51.680
call mine short films, Like no, he was literally making
1758
01:28:51.840 --> 01:28:54.800
short films. Like the names we talked about earlier, you know,
1759
01:28:55.119 --> 01:28:57.279
like like the names that you're using to make these
1760
01:28:57.359 --> 01:28:58.560
these are short films.
1761
01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:01.520
Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly.
1762
01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:05.560
Did you have any honorable mentions that you wanted to
1763
01:29:05.640 --> 01:29:08.239
run out because I had lot all of.
1764
01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:12.039
The rest of them, Like, yeah, I told Lauren the
1765
01:29:12.039 --> 01:29:13.680
first thing this morning when I when you said the six,
1766
01:29:13.760 --> 01:29:16.640
I was like, uh, can I just say all of
1767
01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:19.359
it is? Yeah?
1768
01:29:19.159 --> 01:29:19.359
Yeah.
1769
01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:21.920
I mean there's like I I can't even think of,
1770
01:29:22.520 --> 01:29:25.840
Like there's like one like I don't love the uh
1771
01:29:26.520 --> 01:29:31.600
visual representation for uh human nature, Like that's kind of
1772
01:29:31.640 --> 01:29:34.880
like a really cheaply made stop motion thing that obviously
1773
01:29:34.920 --> 01:29:37.239
the record label did without you know, him being involved.
1774
01:29:37.279 --> 01:29:41.159
I'm guessing, uh, but like that's about the only one
1775
01:29:41.199 --> 01:29:41.800
I can think of.
1776
01:29:42.319 --> 01:29:44.079
I think I think he spent all of what they
1777
01:29:44.119 --> 01:29:47.560
would have given him for a music video budget for Thriller. Yeah,
1778
01:29:47.560 --> 01:29:50.560
I think that's what it is, because you know that
1779
01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:53.319
they had first of all, obviously Billy Geina Beat it
1780
01:29:53.359 --> 01:29:56.920
were all my honorable mentions. Uh, thriller is what it was.
1781
01:29:56.960 --> 01:29:59.760
And then the next album for Bad, we get moon
1782
01:29:59.800 --> 01:30:02.239
Walk Tucker, plus lots of other videos that are not
1783
01:30:02.319 --> 01:30:04.159
even included in this from that and I.
1784
01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:05.680
Think is a hit and gem both as a song
1785
01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:09.359
and a video from Bad is a Liberian Girl. Yeah,
1786
01:30:09.439 --> 01:30:11.920
I love that song so much, and I think the
1787
01:30:12.039 --> 01:30:18.880
video is brilliant where it's every relevant star at the time,
1788
01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:22.439
literally everyone, if you'd started something that year, or if
1789
01:30:22.479 --> 01:30:23.399
you put an album out.
1790
01:30:23.279 --> 01:30:24.079
You're in that video.
1791
01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:28.439
And what I like is again Michael's messaging in that
1792
01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:31.640
all of these stars are all arguing with each other
1793
01:30:31.720 --> 01:30:35.079
over their ego. Oh no, I'm Michael called me. I'm
1794
01:30:35.119 --> 01:30:37.760
supposed to be the big part of this, and then
1795
01:30:38.359 --> 01:30:40.239
at the end of the video you find out he's
1796
01:30:40.279 --> 01:30:42.159
just been watching them making any ass of themselves the
1797
01:30:42.199 --> 01:30:42.680
whole time.
1798
01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:44.800
I like, like, I just love that, you know.
1799
01:30:45.159 --> 01:30:46.880
And of course, and it's the only time ever that
1800
01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:49.720
weirdal ever appeared in an actual Michael Jackson video.
1801
01:30:49.840 --> 01:30:52.239
That's true, Yeah, yeah, very true.
1802
01:30:53.399 --> 01:30:56.039
Bad The video itself also was in my honorable mentions
1803
01:30:56.239 --> 01:31:00.159
Speed Demon, Childhood Remember the Time. And then normally at
1804
01:31:00.159 --> 01:31:03.520
the end of these episodes, I especially with the musicals
1805
01:31:03.520 --> 01:31:06.640
at least, I've been asking people like, oh, what would
1806
01:31:06.880 --> 01:31:09.239
you know if you were gonna what would you kind
1807
01:31:09.239 --> 01:31:11.800
of suggest to other people who have how would you
1808
01:31:11.840 --> 01:31:13.279
sell this this film on them?
1809
01:31:13.439 --> 01:31:17.319
One? And then two? What other films like would you recommend?
1810
01:31:17.359 --> 01:31:18.800
I think the easy recommend here.
1811
01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:23.119
Is Ghosts because yeah, chances are nobody's seen that. If
1812
01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.399
you want to watch a less than perfect version of
1813
01:31:26.439 --> 01:31:27.800
it is is it is on YouTube.
1814
01:31:27.840 --> 01:31:29.079
I mean, if it's that's the only way you can
1815
01:31:29.119 --> 01:31:30.800
see it. I will just watch that.
1816
01:31:30.920 --> 01:31:33.640
But I don't know. Again, this is well. I was
1817
01:31:33.640 --> 01:31:34.800
gonna say, I don't know why they do this, but
1818
01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:36.520
I'm talking about the Michael Jackson state, so no one
1819
01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:39.600
knows why everything. I will say this that around Halloween
1820
01:31:39.680 --> 01:31:42.079
every year, and I don't know why they take it off,
1821
01:31:42.239 --> 01:31:44.520
but around Halloween every year they put it up in
1822
01:31:44.760 --> 01:31:48.960
four K on Michael's YouTube channel. Oh interesting, So keep
1823
01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:52.920
an eye for that because you just it'll just appear like,
1824
01:31:52.960 --> 01:31:54.760
I don't know, a week before Halloween and then it's
1825
01:31:54.840 --> 01:31:57.279
usually on his channel for like I don't know, like
1826
01:31:57.319 --> 01:31:59.359
a week after Halloween. And that's far and away the
1827
01:31:59.359 --> 01:32:01.039
best year ever gonna see it. I mean, it looks,
1828
01:32:01.199 --> 01:32:06.680
it looks gorgeous. But again, they do that and don't
1829
01:32:06.720 --> 01:32:10.119
even tell anyone, you know, like it's insane to me.
1830
01:32:10.600 --> 01:32:12.960
But I always push very hard every year for that
1831
01:32:13.039 --> 01:32:15.640
one on because you know, everyone you know says, oh,
1832
01:32:15.640 --> 01:32:17.760
it's thriller season, you know, which is another thing Michael
1833
01:32:17.800 --> 01:32:22.039
Jackson's old season named after him exactly. But I always
1834
01:32:22.039 --> 01:32:24.680
tell people I'm like, listen, I know Thriller is your childhood.
1835
01:32:24.680 --> 01:32:27.159
I know it's nostalgic. I know it's amazing, But like,
1836
01:32:27.760 --> 01:32:31.479
one of these years, take a look at Ghosts also
1837
01:32:31.840 --> 01:32:34.520
or instead of you know, because I again, I think
1838
01:32:34.520 --> 01:32:38.159
the messaging and in Ghosts is something that more people
1839
01:32:38.199 --> 01:32:45.000
should look at. Its specific to Michael Jackson. And you know,
1840
01:32:45.079 --> 01:32:47.239
so every year and you'll see, because again we're friends
1841
01:32:47.239 --> 01:32:49.239
on social media, you will see when we get to October,
1842
01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:51.079
I will nearly every day I will be like.
1843
01:32:51.039 --> 01:32:52.600
You guys should watch Ghosts today.
1844
01:32:52.319 --> 01:32:59.000
Though, Yeah, directed by Stan Winston, and it's just it's
1845
01:32:59.119 --> 01:33:02.399
it's uh see, directed by Stan Winston, written by co
1846
01:33:02.479 --> 01:33:04.439
written by Stephen King, heard of him.
1847
01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:09.079
And Micky Harris. It's also like it's another one of those.
1848
01:33:10.600 --> 01:33:15.279
Wildly like dream collaborations that they managed to pull off,
1849
01:33:15.520 --> 01:33:18.640
and the effects look really cool. And and Michael, you know,
1850
01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:21.359
love love to transform himself and does so in this
1851
01:33:21.880 --> 01:33:22.760
multiple times.
1852
01:33:23.079 --> 01:33:27.720
Yeah, it's not to be spoiler. You know he's playing uh,
1853
01:33:27.520 --> 01:33:31.279
the main antagonist in this too, right, Yeah, which a
1854
01:33:31.319 --> 01:33:33.600
lot of people don't know that like I've I've had people.
1855
01:33:33.680 --> 01:33:36.399
I've had people watch it and then ask them if
1856
01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:39.960
they thought there was anything weird about the antagonist. No,
1857
01:33:40.239 --> 01:33:42.000
why And I said, well that's Michael Jackson.
1858
01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:46.760
They're like what yeah, yeah, yeah, And then there's even
1859
01:33:46.760 --> 01:33:50.000
footage of him like being put in the prosthetics and everything.
1860
01:33:50.039 --> 01:33:53.199
So yeah, it's it's great stuff. My wife always a
1861
01:33:53.600 --> 01:33:56.159
joke about too. We're always like, oh, really, weird output
1862
01:33:56.159 --> 01:34:00.560
out of fancy. So then Michael Jackson had to another
1863
01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:03.439
example of Weirdell ripping off or Michael Jackson ripping off
1864
01:34:03.439 --> 01:34:04.960
Weirdel exactly.
1865
01:34:07.079 --> 01:34:08.600
Now, this was This was a lot of fun.
1866
01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:10.920
I think one last question like how do you think
1867
01:34:10.920 --> 01:34:14.760
that the Moonwalker captures his legacy as an artist? Like?
1868
01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:16.760
What? What? What do you how?
1869
01:34:16.920 --> 01:34:18.680
I guess going back to what I was saying, how
1870
01:34:18.720 --> 01:34:21.720
would you pitch this on someone that hasn't seen Moonwalker?
1871
01:34:21.720 --> 01:34:23.800
They're like, yeah, I know Michael Jackson's music. I've seen
1872
01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:27.479
some of the main videos, Thriller obviously among them, but
1873
01:34:27.680 --> 01:34:30.239
what is Moonwalker about? Because I also feel like, because
1874
01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:33.239
this hasn't gotten the domestic release, a lot of even
1875
01:34:33.760 --> 01:34:36.760
moderate to large Michael Jackson fans probably don't even know
1876
01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:39.880
what this that this exists right or or haven't seen it.
1877
01:34:40.199 --> 01:34:42.359
Mm hm, well, I'll tell you what I told my
1878
01:34:42.359 --> 01:34:43.960
wife about it, because she had never seen it before
1879
01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:46.640
last week. I said, I said, what you're about to
1880
01:34:46.680 --> 01:34:50.279
see is a lot of really really good ideas and
1881
01:34:50.920 --> 01:34:56.520
uh not as much. It's not as as cohesive as
1882
01:34:56.520 --> 01:34:59.680
you're as you're probably used to. But and then here's
1883
01:34:59.680 --> 01:35:02.039
the import and part. And this is what directly answers
1884
01:35:02.079 --> 01:35:04.800
your question. I was like, overall, you're going to see
1885
01:35:04.800 --> 01:35:08.960
what Michael Jackson was about, which is I think, really
1886
01:35:09.000 --> 01:35:13.199
this like the whole thing, Like it's what you what
1887
01:35:13.279 --> 01:35:15.039
you said earlier, with the way it starts with men
1888
01:35:15.079 --> 01:35:17.359
and the mirrordents with come together, and then in the
1889
01:35:17.399 --> 01:35:21.840
middle is like, here's how I got here and you know,
1890
01:35:21.920 --> 01:35:25.520
and then here's what I'm at the time currently I'm
1891
01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:28.279
dealing with. And then also in the middle of all that,
1892
01:35:28.359 --> 01:35:32.880
here's this completely fantastical, far more creative thing than anyone
1893
01:35:32.960 --> 01:35:35.600
else is putting out in the middle of it. So
1894
01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:37.720
to me, it's just you know, I would tell people like,
1895
01:35:37.760 --> 01:35:39.159
if you want to get an idea what he was
1896
01:35:39.199 --> 01:35:44.359
about at that time, then this is the way to go.
1897
01:35:44.960 --> 01:35:49.359
Yeah, and then and then casually drops in Smooth Criminal,
1898
01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:52.359
the best best music video, the best short film of
1899
01:35:52.399 --> 01:35:52.960
his career.
1900
01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:56.199
Yeah, just like it in the middle there.
1901
01:35:56.279 --> 01:36:00.279
Yeah, Russ, this was so much fun. I'm glad that
1902
01:36:00.319 --> 01:36:03.079
we were able to make this happen right on. Yeah,
1903
01:36:03.119 --> 01:36:05.279
thanks for coming on. Tell people where they can find
1904
01:36:05.319 --> 01:36:06.560
you on social media.
1905
01:36:06.720 --> 01:36:09.640
Yeah, all of our social media is all just infectious
1906
01:36:09.640 --> 01:36:11.399
groove music. So what I just tell people is, like
1907
01:36:11.439 --> 01:36:14.760
whatever your social media platform is, if you just go
1908
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to Google and type in infectious groove music, you know
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whatever Twitter or Facebook or whatever, it'll come up with.
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All ours is the only thing out there with a
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remotely similar name. It'll come back. What I tell people
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is we would love it if you would come subscribe
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to YouTube channel, not just to go I want a
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bigger subscriber number, but the dialogue that we have with
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people about trying to bring up underrated songs and hidden
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gems and things like that matters more to me than anything. So,
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like you know, I would prefer it if most people
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just go and go to YouTube, type infectius Croup music,
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hit the subscribe button. We have three videos every week,
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so and there I feel like they're bite sized. There
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are always like five ten minute videos, you know. And
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what I always tell people is, if you subscribe to
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the channel because you are a big fan of one
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artist or that we've covered, you know, look into some
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of the other artists that we've covered that you may
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have never heard of, because I guarantee you you're you're
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gonna eventually you're gonna hear something that you're like, oh wow,
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I would have never known of this, you know, without
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exactly that was my thing. It's just go to YouTube
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type ineffects. Screwed Music a reaction every Saturday, which is uh,
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I feel like the it's it's the least amount of
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work for content, but it's but they're very fun to do. Yeah,
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and then we have Vinyl review every week, and then
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on Thursday is the one that we have the most
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fun with, which is the uh the music topic videos
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where we try and talk up music we think needs
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more talking about.
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Yeah, no, absolutely, I I I love I love the channel.
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I love the philosophy behind the content. Like we said
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at the top of the show, I like I love
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that you're trying to push the positivity and celebrating what
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01:38:00.920 --> 01:38:04.560
you love. There's enough enough negativity and hate out there
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these days especially, it's like, let's just why, for what purpose?
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Why add to this? We have enough of that. Let's
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you're not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by
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01:38:15.239 --> 01:38:22.920
bringing everybody down, So just go support russ an infectious groove. Meanwhile,
1947
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you can find more episodes like this wherever you get
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01:38:25.319 --> 01:38:28.199
your podcast in on crookedtable dot com, show your support
1949
01:38:28.199 --> 01:38:31.279
on Patreon at patreon dot com, slash crookeet Table, or
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01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:33.239
if you want to keep up with us on social media,
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that'll be at crookeet Table, on Blue Sky, Instagram and threads.
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We'll be back next episode with the final installment of
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01:38:39.880 --> 01:38:43.840
our movie musical series. But for now, that's a wrap
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01:38:43.880 --> 01:38:48.960
on another Cricket Table production. Keep watching, everybody.
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This has been a production of Crooked Table dot com.
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All right, reserve
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Lok