How This Mexican Immigrant Climbed The Ranks To The CEO of United Airlines w/ (Oscar Muñoz)

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Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of
the Embit podcast.
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I am your host, Shamus Madan.
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And today, Oscar Munoz, the former CEO of
United Airlines, joins to discuss his journey
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from growing up in Mexico to becoming the 1st
Hispanic CEO of a major airline.
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Prior to United Oscar held several leadership
positions over at PepsiCo, Coca Cola, AT and T
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and CSX.
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So first off, thank you, Oscar, for taking the
time to join the show.
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It's a pleasure to have you on today.
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Well, thank you for having me, Shannon.
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So there's a I love the way you reached out,
and I'm glad the way reconnected.
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It's a treat to be able to talk to and meet
you.
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And congratulations on the success of your
podcast.
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Thank you.
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I appreciate it.
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It's great to connect as well.
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So I think before we, you know, we dive into
your career, I think first off, what is the
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earliest thing I need to know about you to
understand who you are and all that you've
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accomplished.
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Well,
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if you read all of the resume and business
accomplishment, as somebody once said, that is
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what I do.
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It is not who I am.
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I am the oldest of 9 kids.
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Immigrant, which, you know, is a a common story
nowadays.
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There's an old, a tennis quote from his, poem,
ulysses that says I am parts of all that I've
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met.
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And I I would say that from my humble, humble
beginnings in another country to the evolution
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that I've had over the course of my life
reaching up to this point if I point it to 5 or
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6 different occurrences along the way, it had
to do with humans, other humans who actually
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decided that they would give a hoot about
someone like me, saw a level of promise, a
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level of possibilities and were willing to take
care.
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So that has forged a person who in my
leadership style and my interactions with other
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humans, I I try as always to be helpful, to
provide guidance if needed but most of all, to
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be kind and to listen and to really appreciate
this concept that we all are part of and for
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you and your audience and so much is in the
future, so much is that, but there's a lot of
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wisdom that's gained with experience.
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And I I hope to be able to impart that to
people without being that old guy that says,
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well, young man, when I was growing up, we have
to walk six thousand miles.
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And then we'll grow up in Southern California.
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That doesn't always fly with my kids over the
last.
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Yeah.
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That's super fascinating.
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You mentioned you were an immigrant from
Mexico.
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What was it like growing up in Mexico with your
grandmother, with your mother being in the
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United States, away?
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You know, it's, most of it is vague.
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I came to the to the US pro I was in, I think,
3rd grade.
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I was seven or eight years old.
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I know these things specifically, but I just
can't remember them right now.
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So, so much of that time was a little bit of
that formative haze where you don't quite
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remember, but but there's so many things that
that I knew for a fact, you know, having my own
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children, the concept of nurturing, the concept
of love, the concept of caring, the concept of
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always having something around me that
supported my well-being is what I remember
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most.
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Meaning, you know, despite the fact my I I
mean, I grew up with my grandmother, my mom did
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come to the United States to sort of forge a
better life for herself and then come to get
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me.
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This sounds a lot more dramatic than it does.
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My grandmother did not have her own place.
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We didn't have a home, but we went around to
different family members over the course of
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thing.
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And one thing about Latino families, if you
understand the term family, it has such a deep
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resonance in our culture.
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So wherever you go, somebody's always got their
door open and says come on in and, you know, we
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slept on couches or rooms off to the side and
and traveled by bus and by train.
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So I remember those journeys holding her hand,
but above all, I remember she cared deeply for
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me.
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Was always protective.
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And most importantly, I learned so much from
her work ethic, never in her entire life that I
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hear her complain about.
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Anything.
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So, again, these 4 minute ideas that really
sort of form who you are is what I remember
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most because I I draw upon those early days in
the subsequent years where I got to know her
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even better and meet more of her friends and
relatives or associates how important that
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became a part of my leadership style is really
what what it comes down to.
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What is probably you would say one of the most
important lessons that you took from your
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grandmother during your time in Mexico that you
have taken throughout, the rest of your career.
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I think, this this kindness and generosity of
soul you know, you you we meet people along the
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way, then you probably have, and we'll do so
where there's just a shining aura of light
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around these folks where You just know that
whatever you need or whatever you have to say,
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whatever, they're gonna be there for you.
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She was not a wise woman.
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She was not an educated woman.
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But she would always sort of course correct me
in certain place.
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And this was all through my career.
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So as a young child, I'm young.
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I'm holding her hand.
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I'm I'm I'm leading her way.
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But in subsequent years, when I faced big
decisions in my life, I would always call her,
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you know, two or three times a day, usually
when I was driving home from work, and she
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didn't understand the concept of business.
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I mean, honestly, when, she asked me one day
what I did and I was the the chief financial
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officer of a region of Coca Cola, and she
didn't know what that meant.
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She goes, well, what does it do?
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And so I tried to explain in somewhat layman
terms of what I Madan.
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And you could just see her puzzled face
thinking because in her world and how she grew
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up, the concept of work was you you you worked.
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So if I worked at Coke, she probably thought I
either made the coke or delivered the coke.
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Right?
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That's the work part.
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But when she sees me talking about you know,
what essence is a desk job shuffling papers.
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I could tell that she probably thought, oh, my
poor miho, my my son, that he's not bright
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enough to do those things and put that up.
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So I always remember her just, you know, very
deep human wisdom.
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When I wanted to complain about something or
say, oh, grandma, this stuff is going on and
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this, and then she would just listen.
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And she would just say one or 2 things.
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Like, You know, is that something you really
wanna do, or is that really something that you
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should be upset up?
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So she always kinda level set all of these
things Madan and she was just so marvelous at
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that because, you know, her kindness and
generosity of soul, as I said before, was so
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strong that, you know, when you left talking to
her, it was almost this relaxing therapy thing
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where you came up and you said, you know, I
guess I don't have to really be smart about
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that.
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I mean, the most important part, it saved my
cookies on a couple of occasions where had I
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really pushed hard for what I was sort of
whining about and if that had come true, it
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probably would have had a a negative impact on
my career in life.
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And so, in her own way, she was always always
again protecting and nurturing me throughout
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her life.
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And you mentioned Coca Cola, when you took
roles over at Pepsi and then the former CFO of
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Coca Cola, What then, attracted you to the
beverage industry?
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Well, I started in the beverage business right
on college.
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So it's one of those things where you know,
again, back to my heritage and upbringing, the
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concept of college was lost on me, and it took
a couple of people to interject themselves in
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my life to to let me know how important that
was.
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And and then, of course, when you're getting
out of college, I, you know, it's like there
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was no question that I had to get a job because
I didn't have the luxury or the economic sort
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of support to take a year off or or or, you
know, do a lot of the wonderful things that a
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lot of your listenership is doing.
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Entrepreneurial issues.
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It was a it was not only a generation, but a
necessity for me to find a job.
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My son is graduating from USC Southern Cal, in
a couple weeks, and I told I had to always tell
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them the stories.
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This is back in the day when you had to type
up, and I don't type very well, type up, you
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know, application letters for jobs.
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And then I I would post the rejection letters
all over my apartment room just to remind me
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that, you know, life is just what it is and no
complaining, like, bold and it's like, so I
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made out I made wallpaper on rejection letters
And then, interestingly, I I got a job, not at
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Pepsi, but at Mattel, which is I lived in
Southern California where the headquarters is I
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didn't want that job at Mattel.
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It was a it was a cash management job in
treasury.
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Not I was a financial analyst and wanted to do
something, but there was nothing forthcoming in
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that regard.
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And so, I took the Mitel job for what ended up
being just a little under 2 weeks.
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Because a week into the job, I get this letter
from Pepsi.
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And, again, Pepsi, I mean, that was, like, 200
applicants and round after round of interviews.
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And I'm like, okay.
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I'm never, obviously, and get it.
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So it comes through, and, it was a better job.
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It was a writer that paid a lot more than the
cash management.
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So that was my first moral dilemma It's like,
okay.
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Just go into your boss and, you know, say
you're, you know, you're moving away or you're
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you're doing something and you can't get to the
job And I had all these questions.
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Then I walked in, and I thought, again, back to
my grandmother, I said, you know what?
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I should just be honest.
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This is just it's gonna come back to me
somewhere.
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So I walked into my boss and I said, I am so
sorry, but, you know, I had this other job.
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So I went and, again, the 1st more of the
Lebanon, I think the 1st right decision but
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that's how I got the Pepsi job.
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So I didn't necessarily pick it, or choose it,
and I know a lot of times in today's world,
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everybody's asked to have a direction and a
specific objective and a passion for all of
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these things.
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Sometimes you get into things and you start
doing them, and you you enjoy them.
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And you, you know, you sort of develop, the
expertise and the passion for it.
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It becomes something you do.
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So I I didn't pick it, Shamus.
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It was just something that they came up.
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I loved it, and then that led to the coke job
and then so on and so forth.
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And for other entrepreneurs in the audience who
might be thinking about leaving their current
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job to either found a company or go on to a
different role, What advice would you give them
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on how to leave it off with their current
employer?
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Never burned bridges, 1st and foremost.
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And and never make these decisions out of sheer
emotion.
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And what do I mean by that?
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Well, entrepreneurs and, you know, this have a
a wonderful driving, courageous passion to do
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all of these things.
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And in today's day and age, you have a ton of
examples of people that have lived up to that.
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And the stark facts are that most of the people
that go off on their own Unfortunately, you
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know, not everybody can make it, and so but
that doesn't deter a true entrepreneur, so you
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need to go go after it.
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I would not leave a job because I am so upset
at what I'm doing.
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I hate my job so much.
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I'm just gonna go out and do something on my
own.
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I can do it better without Honestly, a little
proper planning, business case aspects.
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I mean, if you could get some money from
someone, do you have that funded?
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Because it's it's tough out there.
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Today's world.
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There's everybody out with everybody's out with
their hand saying they have a great product.
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They have a great idea and for people, and I
run a venture fund.
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Start a venture fund ourselves, and we see this
all the time.
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We get hundreds of people applying.
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And, of course, over time, we can only invest
in a few and we ask certain questions.
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So get your collective stuff together.
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You know, you get here's your here's not only
your product plan and and how wonderful that
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is, How does it ramp?
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How does it grow?
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How does it make money for your investors?
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Because that's what they ask for.
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Don't fall in love with your product would be
the mic.
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My thing because everybody falls in.
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It's like, oh, Oscar, you don't know.
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This is gonna do this, and it's gonna
revolutionize the world.
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And it's like, I I hear you, but I just heard
20 other people before you.
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Who said the same exact thing.
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And so do a little bit of your homework.
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Take your time, and then at the right time,
then make the change.
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And when you leave, if you're currently
employed, there's no need to sort of flip them
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the middle finger as you're walking out.
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That, I mean, there's just no need.
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You never know, a, if you're gonna be back and
b, I don't know what it's gonna serve,
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honestly.
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And, again, I don't know if people's certain
situations.
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There there may be cases when you have to do
that thing, but I always live my life with just
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there's no reason, again, for my grandmother,
just to treat other people with respect and
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dignity as you would wish to be treated
yourself.
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Yeah.
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And one of the things that I think about is you
control your business.
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Your business doesn't control you.
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And I think that's one of the things that's
important to keep in mind, especially when
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you're building your own company.
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But the people that you surround yourself with,
you mentioned this a little bit earlier, really
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make up the different parts of who you are.
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Who did you or currently do turn to for advice
when you're faced with difficult life decisions
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and why?
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Oh, and, you know, that's a good question
because I think as you, gain experience, you
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tend to seek your own council based on your gut
instinct.
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I think One of the things about about aging and
having lots of experience is that you you learn
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to listen to your instincts much more because
you've now had a lot of practice when you've
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gone against them, and and certainly that, but
we all have mentors and we all have friends And
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so there isn't any one person in particular.
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There are many people, again, back to the
concept of you're all you're the sum of all the
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pa all the folks that you've met, There are
people that are very gifted in certain areas,
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how to communicate, how to deal with sense,
sensitive issues, whether it's a real technical
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issue and something.
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So You're always looking, but I would say I am
a voracious, you know, I I data and information
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is so wonderfully available you can do so much
information sharing on your own and then come
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up with a couple questions, find somebody in
that general area, and then go ask them is is
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how I do it.
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There's always been people around me where I've
had bosses or, you know, board of directors
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that you can you guide to.
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I, you know, I wrote a book recently And the
person I went to was the guy named Walter
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Isaacson, who is arguably one of the greatest
living American writers today, and he's had
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some great things.
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And So, you know, I reached out to him and say,
you know, I I'm thinking about this, but, you
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know, my writing skills not like his, all that
sort of thing.
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And, he goes, you know, take a shot at it,
write something.
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And so I did, and I sent it to him for a quick
review.
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And he came back with said, you know, there's
something here.
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And so we decided to kind of go further.
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So I think, you know, the the the issue with
mentors and guides is twofold.
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The mentor really has to appreciate the That
the there's a it's a big burden and it's a big
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initiative for me personally to take on a
mentee because I wanna know more about you.
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I wanna know what makes you with your your
chemical and and daily makeup about how what
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drives you.
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So that my guidance fits you.
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I think we today because we have so much Madan.
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So many wonderful pieces of advice, we find or
hear something that makes sense.
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Yeah.
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We should do that, but it may not be your thing
in in a very simple way you know, there's
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things like, you should always start a speech
with a joke, right, to loosen up the ground.
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Hey.
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That's great.
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Let's try that.
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If you're not funny, you probably shouldn't
tell a joke.
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Right?
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And and so we we like to read things and that's
gonna be the saving grace for everything we do.
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Pick your mentors wisely.
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Make sure they care about you, make sure they
have, you know, the right, mental frame for
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being, being, for being helpful.
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I I personally, when someone walks around as
well, I mentor 78 people I I find that a little
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off putting because unless you're spending
every waking moment of your day thinking about
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those seventy eight people, I'm not sure you're
providing advice.
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And so I take questions that are asked of me by
people asking the question very seriously.
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To the point where if you ask me a question and
I'll say, Davis, you know what?
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There's a couple different ways of doing that.
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Let's talk about it more.
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Let's refine the question.
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I don't know much about that, so maybe there's
a better person.
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Or let me think a little bit about that more.
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And and, that takes a lot more human effort and
engagement can just say, well, you know what,
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Shamus?
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And then tell a story about yourself or or say,
you know, the the flipping things that I always
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like to say, you know, follow your passion and
do all these sorts of things.
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There's just some there's some really strong,
directions that maybe aren't the best ones and
285
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the ones for all.
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One of the things I say to people or I and I
talk a lot is the concept of listen, learn, and
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Madan.
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And then I go to describe what listening is,
and I describe what the learning pass.
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And then and just so that people understand
from a broader perspective as well as from a
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tactical perspective of what it means.
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And then in the context that somebody's that
I'm talking to, said, so in your case, I would
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say, Jay, this, you know, this is what I would
do.
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This is a thought for you.
294
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And, again, they're all thoughts.
295
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They're not prescriptive that by, hey.
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There's only one way to do this because that's
not the case.
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So, you know, the concept of having your own
opinion, your own viewpoints and thinking for
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yourself can easily be lost in a world of
massive information overload because it always
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sounds so good.
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00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,099
You know, I know you had Mark Cuban on or
something.
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Know, he's wonderful, and he's done all he has.
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So we wanna hang on to his every single word.
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00:17:56,975 --> 00:18:02,170
But if you really get inside what he's done,
he's worked his ass off He's had lots of false
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and and, you know, and and what he said might
have worked it for him, but you have to make
305
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sure that you know yourself.
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So at the end of all that long, solidically,
and the concept of knowing yourself is a really
307
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important thing, especially as you're younger,
because we tell ourselves what we think we are.
308
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What what we're good at all the time.
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We may or may not be.
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And over time, allow people to come in and say,
hey, gee, am I really good at this or do I need
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some improvement?
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So keep that door open, get feedback, know
yourself.
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And then when you ask questions of people, I I
think you have a better filtering system to see
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what applies to you versus that.
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00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:44,970
How do you know then whether you truly do know
something or you think you know something?
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Oh my god.
317
00:18:46,765 --> 00:18:47,904
That's a great question.
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Our brains, I know, you know, along with the
people that you'll interact with, you know,
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everybody's smart nowadays.
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And the physiological aspect of our brain power
is that it is geared to protect us and geared
321
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to give us the positive things.
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When you're very smart and I work with some
really, really, really smart people and but
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sometimes they don't have a lot of the, you
know, strong social cues, the EQ and IQ sort
324
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kind of balance that we all read about.
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And I and I and and one of the things I've
learned in having these people work for me in
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essence is they'll often be ostracized as being
jerks or arrogant if they're really smart.
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And what you find is when you spend time with
them, you see that what causes that arrogance
328
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or that aloofness isn't character.
329
00:19:38,159 --> 00:19:41,230
It's their brain saying, you know, there's a
problem there.
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00:19:41,964 --> 00:19:43,244
I've fixed it.
331
00:19:43,244 --> 00:19:46,125
I'm not sure why we're sitting around waiting
and talking about it.
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I got this.
333
00:19:47,005 --> 00:19:51,710
And so rather than, that's how their brain
works and their chemistry.
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00:19:51,849 --> 00:19:56,730
And so what you need to teach them is is rewire
part of that intellectual side of the brain to
335
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say, so being right is part of the process
being effective in actually initiating change
336
00:20:05,514 --> 00:20:10,929
or action or actually finishing an objective
requires the other side of your brain that
337
00:20:10,929 --> 00:20:11,730
says, alright.
338
00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:13,169
I think we have an issue.
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00:20:13,169 --> 00:20:17,109
How do I get everybody around me to understand
that that's the right question?
340
00:20:17,234 --> 00:20:20,515
And then everybody has their their part to make
it work.
341
00:20:20,515 --> 00:20:24,595
So being right and being smart is a wonderful
god given gift.
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You know, you're never gonna lose it.
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But the more you understand that there should
be other people around you that can help you do
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00:20:30,269 --> 00:20:34,910
it and how you bring them along, especially at
senior levels that I've been so blessed to
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00:20:34,910 --> 00:20:39,265
achieve, you know, walking around saying you're
the smartest person, and everybody should do
346
00:20:39,265 --> 00:20:39,664
what you say.
347
00:20:39,664 --> 00:20:43,105
It's almost impossible to do to some degree
because there's too many pieces.
348
00:20:43,105 --> 00:20:48,990
I mean, you know, in my heyday, gosh, United
was, a 100 plus another forty thousand people
349
00:20:48,990 --> 00:20:50,669
that worked for us in some way.
350
00:20:50,669 --> 00:20:56,994
70 different countries, a 180,000,000 customers
being touched over the course of a year by all
351
00:20:56,994 --> 00:20:57,714
those folks.
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00:20:57,714 --> 00:21:02,599
You're talking a lot of individual sort of what
on one interactions between one of my wonderful
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employees and one of my wonderful customers.
354
00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:08,355
And the potential for something going bad is
really high.
355
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So, so, you know, there's a lot to be said for
that, you know, that ability to understand
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yourself.
357
00:21:15,075 --> 00:21:19,250
And when you eventually did transition from
CSX, to United Airlines.
358
00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:23,809
How did it feel to be the 1st Hispanic CEO of a
major airline?
359
00:21:27,134 --> 00:21:28,195
We didn't know.
360
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I've never known.
361
00:21:29,215 --> 00:21:35,279
I've always been it feels like one of the
youngest or one of the first what I've learned
362
00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:40,480
to to say in a world will increase seeing
levels of diversity and inclusion and
363
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:46,134
acceptance is that honestly, I'm so tired of
being the exception to things, like the only to
364
00:21:46,134 --> 00:21:47,434
this or the first of that.
365
00:21:47,575 --> 00:21:52,460
I wanna build and then this new chapter of my
life, I wanna go away from this concept of of
366
00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:58,619
being the exception, to be in the expectation
for young kids like me that are all throughout
367
00:21:58,619 --> 00:22:00,865
this country where it's like Hey.
368
00:22:01,085 --> 00:22:05,404
That, you know, you know, a young African
American kid can say, I could be president now,
369
00:22:05,404 --> 00:22:10,139
right, because we've had that women feel that
they can do and certainly in my community, that
370
00:22:10,139 --> 00:22:14,460
there's that you don't have to do just what,
you know, what is in front of you.
371
00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:15,759
There are broader reaches.
372
00:22:15,899 --> 00:22:19,845
And so, you know, to your question, what did it
feel like I never thought about it.
373
00:22:19,845 --> 00:22:21,125
I've never thought about it.
374
00:22:21,125 --> 00:22:25,384
I've always thought about my ethnicity only
when someone raises it to me.
375
00:22:26,164 --> 00:22:32,399
And I have always thought of myself There's,
there's a great quote from the first, the first
376
00:22:32,399 --> 00:22:38,835
black pilot in in at United, again, Bill
Norwood, who said Shamus, he grew up in Lower
377
00:22:38,835 --> 00:22:40,855
Alabama and Jim Crow Era.
378
00:22:40,994 --> 00:22:45,974
He says, you know, you learn very quickly in my
community that you have to work twice as hard
379
00:22:46,099 --> 00:22:47,640
to get half as far.
380
00:22:48,579 --> 00:22:52,660
And that always resonated with me because that
working heartbeat, when I talk about this
381
00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:54,785
concept of people, I said, listen.
382
00:22:55,005 --> 00:22:56,845
Bias exist in this world today.
383
00:22:56,845 --> 00:22:57,744
Is it better?
384
00:22:57,805 --> 00:22:58,305
Yes.
385
00:22:58,365 --> 00:23:03,349
Not a lot better necessarily, but the concept
of how you can help yourself You can sit around
386
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,429
and whine and complain and woe is me.
387
00:23:05,429 --> 00:23:06,789
Nobody's giving me the credit.
388
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:06,950
No.
389
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:08,470
But I'm being shut out of things.
390
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:11,565
You can do that, or you can just really work
Madan.
391
00:23:11,565 --> 00:23:17,404
And watch how that actually manifests itself
into a trajectory of your career and your
392
00:23:17,404 --> 00:23:18,779
chosen path in a way.
393
00:23:18,859 --> 00:23:24,059
One of the reasons I started my venture fund,
it is for Latinos and Latinos founders, and
394
00:23:24,059 --> 00:23:26,799
it's because they don't get money from all the
sources.
395
00:23:27,044 --> 00:23:30,804
Just because the people that have money see
that community and say, well, I don't have a
396
00:23:30,804 --> 00:23:31,804
lot of history with them.
397
00:23:31,804 --> 00:23:33,044
They don't have a lot of history.
398
00:23:33,044 --> 00:23:39,490
So I'm gonna go with the standard folks that I
know And and so rather than complain, rather
399
00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:44,289
than bitch about it, rather than beg people to
do it, we raised our own money and doing it
400
00:23:44,289 --> 00:23:50,005
ourselves and and our hope is to provide proof,
not just promise of the ability of this cohort
401
00:23:50,005 --> 00:23:50,664
in America.
402
00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:51,285
Yeah.
403
00:23:51,285 --> 00:23:55,309
It's one of those things that have come up a
lot on the podcast about pattern recognition.
404
00:23:55,690 --> 00:23:58,990
It can be a good thing, but it can also do
yourself quite a disfavor.
405
00:23:59,370 --> 00:24:04,664
I noticed when I joined, Columbia Business
School part time, for the past year.
406
00:24:04,664 --> 00:24:10,630
So we created this program called EC America to
find Latino entrepreneurs in the United States
407
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:14,309
and bring them and connect them to Columbia's
resources to help grow and expand their
408
00:24:14,309 --> 00:24:14,809
businesses.
409
00:24:15,109 --> 00:24:19,984
So I definitely do see that, but you mentioned
your point earlier how at your aid time, you're
410
00:24:19,984 --> 00:24:22,884
managing around a 140,000 employees.
411
00:24:23,105 --> 00:24:27,585
When I brought up this question with Spencer
Raskoff, at that time, he was the former CEO of
412
00:24:27,585 --> 00:24:30,789
Zillow, He had around 350 employees.
413
00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:35,490
And I asked him, how do you manage, a culture
with 300 plus employees?
414
00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:36,710
He said it was really difficult.
415
00:24:37,365 --> 00:24:41,144
I can only I can't even imagine how you manage
culture with a 140,000.
416
00:24:41,845 --> 00:24:46,105
What were some of the things that you did to
help manage culture with that many people?
417
00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:54,684
You know, it was it was probably not managing
culture, but, undoing, and so United and merger
418
00:24:54,845 --> 00:24:56,464
United And Continental merged.
419
00:24:56,684 --> 00:25:02,305
And when I became CEO, they've been embroiled
in contract negotiations with union employees.
420
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:05,610
Which represent 80 plus percent of the of the
company.
421
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:08,009
So we had bad labor relations.
422
00:25:08,309 --> 00:25:13,674
We had internal teams inside of the management
group sort of fighting with each other because
423
00:25:13,674 --> 00:25:18,734
I was I wore blue and you wore red and, you
know, that kind of, conflict and content.
424
00:25:19,115 --> 00:25:20,234
Our operations suck.
425
00:25:20,234 --> 00:25:21,934
Our financial measures were dropping.
426
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:24,480
Customers really didn't like us whatsoever.
427
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:26,640
So we had a whole mishmash of things.
428
00:25:26,779 --> 00:25:32,835
And so the culture that I found as I dug into
it was one of disenfranchised, disengaged,
429
00:25:33,694 --> 00:25:36,414
disillusioned people who didn't care.
430
00:25:36,414 --> 00:25:40,880
Now that's a large number of people to have
walking around And remember, we have an
431
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,500
industry where it's it's it's very much
decentralized.
432
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,980
There is no, quote, factory floor.
433
00:25:47,434 --> 00:25:51,615
I mean, there's, you know, 2 flight attendants
on a plane or 4 flight attendants.
434
00:25:51,835 --> 00:25:56,240
There's 2 pilots, and they and they come to the
plane different places.
435
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,919
There is not a huge amount of gathering places,
but the power that I quickly learned in that
436
00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:04,075
business was they all talk to each other.
437
00:26:04,154 --> 00:26:07,214
In some way, shape, or form, they were part of
the process.
438
00:26:07,514 --> 00:26:14,230
And what I sense right from the start to your
question, how did we go about sort of fixing,
439
00:26:15,089 --> 00:26:19,109
rectifying whatever term you wanna use with
regards to that.
440
00:26:19,329 --> 00:26:20,805
You know, everybody wants to know.
441
00:26:20,805 --> 00:26:23,125
Street wants to know how you're gonna bring
numbers back.
442
00:26:23,125 --> 00:26:25,205
Customers wanna know how you're gonna improve
service.
443
00:26:25,205 --> 00:26:28,664
Your board wants to know all of everybody has,
and everybody has ideas.
444
00:26:29,410 --> 00:26:32,630
My immediate decision, and this is based on my
upbringing.
445
00:26:32,930 --> 00:26:34,769
Is it back to my heritage comes in?
446
00:26:35,009 --> 00:26:36,125
And it's like, you know what?
447
00:26:36,444 --> 00:26:40,785
I'm gonna go ask the people that actually touch
the customer every single day.
448
00:26:40,924 --> 00:26:44,950
So my first sort of public announcement was I
wanna get a new said, you know what?
449
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:51,130
I'm gonna take 90 days, and I'm gonna visit
every single place I can in our great worldwide
450
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:51,690
organization.
451
00:26:52,274 --> 00:26:59,154
And I'm gonna learn a lot about what ails us
because what all of you think ails us may be
452
00:26:59,154 --> 00:27:03,299
right and may not be right but one leadership
lesson that I always talk about is in a
453
00:27:03,299 --> 00:27:08,660
turnaround when everything is broken,
determining what's the best thing to start
454
00:27:08,660 --> 00:27:11,555
with, gives you the best area for success.
455
00:27:12,255 --> 00:27:16,335
Finding out what that first thing to start with
is the hardest thing in the world.
456
00:27:16,335 --> 00:27:21,650
And so my way of doing it was to just get out
there and and and the concept of listening and
457
00:27:21,650 --> 00:27:24,390
learning before I led was born.
458
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:30,975
And so what that generated to your question,
how the culture is very quickly, people while
459
00:27:30,975 --> 00:27:36,975
incredibly resistant and angry when you want to
talk to them, you begin to sort of break down
460
00:27:36,975 --> 00:27:37,715
on the barriers.
461
00:27:37,940 --> 00:27:39,380
I'm a easygoing person.
462
00:27:39,380 --> 00:27:41,480
I don't ask a lot of really deep questions.
463
00:27:41,779 --> 00:27:42,740
I'll walk up to you.
464
00:27:42,740 --> 00:27:43,559
You're working.
465
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:48,015
It's 2 o'clock in the morning or 2 o'clock in
the afternoon, and somewhere in the bowels of
466
00:27:48,015 --> 00:27:54,734
an airport or a hanger, and I would find people
and just walk into rooms where it was, well,
467
00:27:54,734 --> 00:27:56,194
hostile would be an understatement.
468
00:27:56,950 --> 00:28:00,950
You know, you people that haven't been paid,
they're con so they're they're angry people
469
00:28:00,950 --> 00:28:05,304
with families and livelihoods that they feel
are threatened And then some guy in the suit
470
00:28:05,304 --> 00:28:08,924
doesn't have a background in this industry
walks in and wants to chat.
471
00:28:09,065 --> 00:28:09,504
It's like, yeah.
472
00:28:09,504 --> 00:28:10,825
I got your chat right here.
473
00:28:10,825 --> 00:28:10,984
Right?
474
00:28:10,984 --> 00:28:13,804
I mean, it was it was a a pretty difficult
thing.
475
00:28:13,930 --> 00:28:14,970
I always hung in there.
476
00:28:14,970 --> 00:28:18,330
I always went right into the middle of the
room, and I didn't move.
477
00:28:18,330 --> 00:28:20,750
And I answered questions, and they yelled and
screamed.
478
00:28:20,944 --> 00:28:23,825
You know, things like, yeah, we've heard all
this crap before.
479
00:28:23,825 --> 00:28:26,865
And and I and I'd always say you have.
480
00:28:26,865 --> 00:28:32,610
The CEO of the company has been here at 3
o'clock in the morning asking you a very simple
481
00:28:32,610 --> 00:28:33,110
question.
482
00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:34,309
How can I help?
483
00:28:34,369 --> 00:28:35,570
Tell me what's wrong.
484
00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:40,549
Tell me what I can do, and I can't I and I
can't promise I'm gonna fix everything you say
485
00:28:40,585 --> 00:28:45,065
but this is all gonna go into a sort of a
boiling pot where I'm able to really get and
486
00:28:45,065 --> 00:28:47,325
discern what may be the first thing to start
with.
487
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,519
The the power of voice, this is back to
culture, is that it's not what you think the
488
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:54,240
culture is.
489
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,404
It's what your team thinks the culture is.
490
00:28:56,404 --> 00:28:58,105
And they don't think about culture.
491
00:28:58,164 --> 00:29:01,065
They just think as a human, do I feel value?
492
00:29:01,204 --> 00:29:02,484
Is my voice heard?
493
00:29:02,484 --> 00:29:03,924
Is my workplace safe?
494
00:29:03,924 --> 00:29:09,119
Is my workplace, you know, gender do I am I,
you know, that and that's how a good culture is
495
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:11,599
built because I like coming to work.
496
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:13,234
I want to do the right thing.
497
00:29:13,234 --> 00:29:15,875
I wanna put an extra bit of effort for those
things.
498
00:29:15,875 --> 00:29:19,894
That's the objective, but getting there, there
is no back to our early conversation.
499
00:29:20,035 --> 00:29:21,954
There is no right way of doing that.
500
00:29:21,954 --> 00:29:23,480
There's no There's no book written.
501
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,579
There's a 100 books written about it.
502
00:29:25,639 --> 00:29:30,519
But for me, knowing my strength and skill set
and connecting with people, I wanna bother in
503
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:31,179
that regard.
504
00:29:31,515 --> 00:29:34,154
And and that's how we went through it, and it
took a while.
505
00:29:34,154 --> 00:29:35,595
And the damn year killed me.
506
00:29:35,595 --> 00:29:39,835
I had this massive heart attack and mental
heart transplant and all that sort of stuff.
507
00:29:39,835 --> 00:29:41,420
I don't recommend that part, by the way.
508
00:29:42,539 --> 00:29:47,019
So that's, you know, again, there's there's a
lot more behind that clearly, but, but that's
509
00:29:47,019 --> 00:29:48,559
the general way I went after.
510
00:29:49,174 --> 00:29:49,414
Yeah.
511
00:29:49,414 --> 00:29:51,434
And speaking, you mentioned the heart attack.
512
00:29:51,494 --> 00:29:57,434
What, impact did that have on your relationship
with your family and then your business?
513
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:06,340
Well, with my family, it was obviously
traumatic, the thought of of of dad at a early
514
00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:08,845
age you know, passing away and losing it.
515
00:30:08,845 --> 00:30:10,384
So we would have that trauma.
516
00:30:10,765 --> 00:30:16,819
My youngest son was about to graduate, from
college, was an entering freshman in high
517
00:30:16,819 --> 00:30:17,319
school.
518
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:20,419
And and so, you know, he and I, he was a big
athlete.
519
00:30:20,419 --> 00:30:25,355
So we talked about, you know, heart with
regards to grit and courage and endurance.
520
00:30:25,355 --> 00:30:28,735
And, you know, that's a Shamus word and analog
that everyone uses.
521
00:30:28,875 --> 00:30:34,119
And so he was very puzzled about you know, with
that getting a new heart, was that gonna change
522
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:34,519
me?
523
00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:37,799
And so, you know, interesting things like that
that were happening.
524
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:41,404
And then there was the decision of whether or
not I would return to work such a massive
525
00:30:41,404 --> 00:30:41,644
thing.
526
00:30:41,644 --> 00:30:42,765
It's like, why would you go back?
527
00:30:42,765 --> 00:30:47,964
And then back to the business side of it, what
impacted not only that decision to return, but
528
00:30:47,964 --> 00:30:53,980
my ability to return was In the 37 days that I
was working, you know, before I had the heart
529
00:30:53,980 --> 00:30:58,619
attack, I connected with a lot of people
directly and indirectly whether we just talked
530
00:30:58,619 --> 00:31:07,960
about this listening tour the unbelievable
response from employees all over the world with
531
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,539
regards to the get better come back to us.
532
00:31:10,679 --> 00:31:18,404
It created this this amazing energy of of not
only thoughts and prayers being directed at me,
533
00:31:18,464 --> 00:31:24,724
but also for me, it just verified that the
people that I had inherited here were indeed
534
00:31:25,059 --> 00:31:30,500
have lots of pride, lots of professionalism,
lots of caring, and lots of ability to to take
535
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:31,779
care of our customers as well.
536
00:31:31,779 --> 00:31:32,919
And so just reinforce.
537
00:31:33,539 --> 00:31:37,714
So you know, after these bags of mail would
come in and my kids were redid in my hospital
538
00:31:37,775 --> 00:31:40,595
bed and all that, it was clear that we needed
to go back.
539
00:31:40,654 --> 00:31:44,259
And and then, you know, there's a lot of work
strategy things that we did around that.
540
00:31:44,259 --> 00:31:47,859
But, but the business side, you know, I I I am
no different.
541
00:31:47,859 --> 00:31:51,859
People often ask, hey, gee, when you have a new
organ, does it change you, especially something
542
00:31:51,859 --> 00:31:53,664
as meaningful as your heart.
543
00:31:53,805 --> 00:31:56,465
I am the same person that I've always been.
544
00:31:56,525 --> 00:32:03,990
I am incredibly more grateful for every day and
every and everything that I do.
545
00:32:04,049 --> 00:32:09,355
I am open to new possibilities all the time
when you wrote to me on LinkedIn and you know,
546
00:32:09,355 --> 00:32:11,035
the the publicity team looked up.
547
00:32:11,035 --> 00:32:12,875
It's like, you know, he's like, young guy.
548
00:32:12,875 --> 00:32:15,855
He has a few followers and, you know, no need
to do that.
549
00:32:15,914 --> 00:32:16,974
I'm like, why not?
550
00:32:18,299 --> 00:32:23,200
You know, and and it's the kind of person that
I've learned to be even more of than before.
551
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:28,255
Now from a business perspective, it was like
you can knock my ass down.
552
00:32:28,255 --> 00:32:34,309
So to provide it, you know, it it did give us,
quite a bit of lift and it really began to
553
00:32:34,309 --> 00:32:38,549
rebuild, but it started with a personal
connection that I wait I made with so many
554
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:39,049
people.
555
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:44,515
I know for me, personally, one of the difficult
events in my life was during my elementary
556
00:32:44,515 --> 00:32:45,154
school career.
557
00:32:45,154 --> 00:32:49,875
I was pretty much buoyed by the kids and the
teachers, but because of that, I had a chip on
558
00:32:49,875 --> 00:32:54,099
my shoulder and something to prove which is one
of the reasons I've been able to grow the
559
00:32:54,099 --> 00:32:56,519
podcast and, you know, help start off my
career.
560
00:32:56,740 --> 00:33:00,920
What is your perspective on why so many
immigrants and people with untraditional
561
00:33:01,424 --> 00:33:04,565
childhoods and backgrounds go on to become
highly successful.
562
00:33:05,345 --> 00:33:06,464
I think you just said it.
563
00:33:06,464 --> 00:33:07,765
I mean, you're just motivated.
564
00:33:08,144 --> 00:33:09,365
It's like, you know what?
565
00:33:09,424 --> 00:33:10,244
I'll show you.
566
00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:14,809
That's like, you don't you don't believe me or
you don't think and you get cast aside and it
567
00:33:14,809 --> 00:33:20,705
hurts and, but you come back and and and and
you also don't have a lot of backup Meaning,
568
00:33:20,705 --> 00:33:26,244
again, in a in a socioeconomic background like
I had, I didn't have another option.
569
00:33:26,464 --> 00:33:30,349
You know, you went to high school, of course,
and then you graduated and you know, you found
570
00:33:30,349 --> 00:33:35,789
someone to be with and you had a family and
usually you went to work and some line of work
571
00:33:35,789 --> 00:33:40,045
that one of your relatives or somebody knew
each other My dad was a meat cutter, a a
572
00:33:40,045 --> 00:33:46,445
butcher, and, and I and he wasn't a wise
educated person necessarily, but even he had
573
00:33:46,445 --> 00:33:51,950
the he would take me to work during the summers
for a day or 2 and have me help around the, you
574
00:33:51,950 --> 00:33:53,070
know, the the thing.
575
00:33:53,070 --> 00:33:57,170
And he he would say, you know, I mean, if this
is what you wanna do, I can help you.
576
00:33:57,255 --> 00:33:58,634
But it was always this.
577
00:33:58,695 --> 00:34:01,275
There's something out there that's different
for you.
578
00:34:01,654 --> 00:34:09,150
And so the all there is there is a work ethic
and this this factor of of drive that I think
579
00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:13,425
motivates people like that that not everyone
usually has because they have a lot of things
580
00:34:13,425 --> 00:34:14,465
to fall back on.
581
00:34:14,465 --> 00:34:16,324
And so I think that's what it does.
582
00:34:16,785 --> 00:34:21,684
And speaking of work ethic, sitting here today,
many of our in our audience sometimes
583
00:34:21,824 --> 00:34:24,130
contemplate the cost of success.
584
00:34:24,590 --> 00:34:25,809
Do you have any regrets?
585
00:34:27,469 --> 00:34:32,474
You know, I've I've always answered the
question whether it's like the regrets are are
586
00:34:32,474 --> 00:34:38,635
a wonderful term, but it's it's it's it's like
irrelevant, but moot.
587
00:34:38,635 --> 00:34:40,155
It doesn't doesn't really matter.
588
00:34:40,155 --> 00:34:41,454
Nothing's gonna change.
589
00:34:42,219 --> 00:34:46,380
And so as I think back on all of those, of
course, there are things I wish I could have
590
00:34:46,380 --> 00:34:52,875
done different or better, but somehow, those
mistakes that different direction that you
591
00:34:52,875 --> 00:34:57,660
establish that that you set that time, always
drove strength.
592
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:03,614
It's it's a a stronger sell in in some ways, a
broader opening to a lot so many other things.
593
00:35:03,695 --> 00:35:08,255
And so, you know, I I just don't like to
reflect on those regards because, you know,
594
00:35:08,255 --> 00:35:11,375
there's just there's nothing much I can do
other than learn from it.
595
00:35:11,375 --> 00:35:16,510
Now I will talk about the mistakes that I and,
the things that I wish I had done better and
596
00:35:16,510 --> 00:35:20,744
the learnings that I had from Matt, and I talk
about that all the time publicly.
597
00:35:21,445 --> 00:35:26,250
CEOs in this country and others call me all the
time for crisis management, for you know,
598
00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:26,650
proxy.
599
00:35:26,650 --> 00:35:33,550
I mean, I might, you know, again, my my my book
covers this unbelievable swath of, multitudes
600
00:35:33,769 --> 00:35:35,949
and layers of all these different things.
601
00:35:36,315 --> 00:35:41,035
And so you develop that that level of of
knowledge and experience, but, you know, the
602
00:35:41,035 --> 00:35:47,030
the only regret is that I didn't know the
things that I don't I don't know earlier, which
603
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:50,070
a lot of people say, which is when your
opportunity came up.
604
00:35:50,070 --> 00:35:50,789
I said, you know what?
605
00:35:50,789 --> 00:35:54,974
He probably has a young audience, you know, it
may sound like a you know, old dude talking
606
00:35:54,974 --> 00:36:00,174
about all this stuff, but I I think I I've
learned the hard way, and there's no reason for
607
00:36:00,174 --> 00:36:01,954
everyone to repeat those same mistakes.
608
00:36:02,329 --> 00:36:02,650
Yeah.
609
00:36:02,650 --> 00:36:03,389
I agree.
610
00:36:03,449 --> 00:36:09,289
And of your decades of experience of being a
leader, what is one moment that you think
611
00:36:09,289 --> 00:36:11,949
you'll never forget and why has it been so
impactful?
612
00:36:15,195 --> 00:36:20,820
As some of your listeners might know and you
might know, at United, we had a very
613
00:36:20,820 --> 00:36:26,180
significant issue with the dragging and and
and, all about a customer that went viral.
614
00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:30,974
I mean, it it was probably one of the first
viral moments in a corporation's industry.
615
00:36:31,434 --> 00:36:32,575
It was back in 2017.
616
00:36:33,755 --> 00:36:38,179
So it seems like just recently, but, you know,
I started with Twitter and I don't think
617
00:36:38,179 --> 00:36:40,119
anybody really knew the reach of Twitter.
618
00:36:40,179 --> 00:36:41,639
The video went broad.
619
00:36:42,339 --> 00:36:44,179
The man had said he was Chinese.
620
00:36:44,179 --> 00:36:50,164
So it got it got somebody's told me I've had
numbers between 500 and 800,000,000 views on
621
00:36:50,164 --> 00:36:56,025
wavell, the Chinese platform, and so it pissed
off an entire country, a big country.
622
00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:00,880
And I think, these are the moments, and this is
back to regret.
623
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,780
Should can I regret what I said initially?
624
00:37:04,864 --> 00:37:06,545
I could, but it didn't matter.
625
00:37:07,425 --> 00:37:14,500
And so the the situation was quickly, you know,
the initial data was the facts were that, you
626
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:17,719
know, there was no United employee involved in
that whatsoever.
627
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:22,224
It was the Chicago police that the that the
incident went with.
628
00:37:22,704 --> 00:37:27,105
And there was only one United employee there,
and they were watching, you know, horror like
629
00:37:27,105 --> 00:37:28,244
the rest of us.
630
00:37:28,704 --> 00:37:33,329
And and so that that incident crystallize a
couple things.
631
00:37:33,329 --> 00:37:39,305
First of all, in preparing in my initial
responses, which were awful and horrid for most
632
00:37:39,305 --> 00:37:42,664
of the reasons that I won't even bother, but
you get a lot of guidance and you get a lot of
633
00:37:42,664 --> 00:37:44,684
you get a lot of advice from people very
quickly.
634
00:37:44,905 --> 00:37:49,469
This is back to why I've learned to seek advice
from people that I know have the best interest
635
00:37:49,469 --> 00:37:54,110
because in that moment, in that sort of rushed
moment, you know, everybody's running around.
636
00:37:54,110 --> 00:37:54,739
You gotta do this.
637
00:37:54,739 --> 00:37:57,885
You gotta do and that was done, and it turned
out to be bad.
638
00:37:57,885 --> 00:38:01,724
And then once you go one bad and you gotta try
to fix that one and you get into this little
639
00:38:01,724 --> 00:38:06,428
cycle, So I step back from all of it, and this
is back to your point in Madan.
640
00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:13,605
In going on live TV on good morning America a
couple of days later, where, you know, they're
641
00:38:13,605 --> 00:38:14,644
just loaded for bear.
642
00:38:14,644 --> 00:38:14,885
Right?
643
00:38:14,885 --> 00:38:16,025
It's like, oh, yeah.
644
00:38:16,085 --> 00:38:17,204
We got another CEO.
645
00:38:17,204 --> 00:38:18,085
He's gonna come in here.
646
00:38:18,085 --> 00:38:22,539
He's gonna babble on about this and try to
blame people, whatever they might thinking, but
647
00:38:22,539 --> 00:38:25,840
they couldn't wait to get another CEO kind of
on the hot seat.
648
00:38:26,380 --> 00:38:31,015
And the prep that I had with all the experts
about what to say and how to say it, how to
649
00:38:31,015 --> 00:38:34,155
tell a story that it wasn't indeed United
employees.
650
00:38:34,215 --> 00:38:38,719
It was just we were affiliated with it, not all
of that stuff, we're we're going through it.
651
00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:44,539
In the middle of the night, this is to your
question, I, I dropped to my knees, and I'm not
652
00:38:44,539 --> 00:38:46,159
a pious person necessarily.
653
00:38:46,765 --> 00:38:51,664
But, you know, I looked kind of upstairs and
and and and sought council.
654
00:38:52,204 --> 00:38:57,340
And what came to me in a weird calming way was
my grandmother back to her.
655
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,579
It was like she never complained.
656
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,980
She never she would never blame anyone.
657
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:03,954
She would never do any of that stuff.
658
00:39:03,954 --> 00:39:09,795
So I'm thinking, I'm gonna go on live tea with
tens of millions of people and try to craft a
659
00:39:09,795 --> 00:39:12,460
story that says, you know, hey.
660
00:39:12,460 --> 00:39:13,500
Don't be mad at me.
661
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:15,119
It wasn't me kind of thing.
662
00:39:15,339 --> 00:39:18,960
Or what I went and said, it was it was an awful
situation.
663
00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:23,914
I own it, We let these policies and procedures
that govern our thing, get in the way of doing
664
00:39:23,914 --> 00:39:27,035
what's right for a human, and that should never
have happened.
665
00:39:27,035 --> 00:39:28,750
And here's what we're gonna do about it.
666
00:39:28,909 --> 00:39:35,710
And, what was funny about it is the gas that
you heard was not only from the producers in
667
00:39:35,710 --> 00:39:37,230
every year, because they're like, wait.
668
00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:37,625
Wait.
669
00:39:37,625 --> 00:39:41,625
He's supposed to try to dodge around this and
then what other questions can we ask him when
670
00:39:41,625 --> 00:39:42,824
you say, you're right.
671
00:39:42,824 --> 00:39:43,565
I'm wrong.
672
00:39:43,704 --> 00:39:44,445
I'm awful.
673
00:39:44,985 --> 00:39:47,005
But the louder gas was for my team.
674
00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:48,269
Who's like, wait.
675
00:39:48,489 --> 00:39:49,949
Not supposed to say that.
676
00:39:51,210 --> 00:39:58,005
So the the moment there is my upbringing, my
heritage, using my grandmother sort of as a as
677
00:39:58,005 --> 00:40:01,625
an analog for that is what what allowed me to
have that conversation.
678
00:40:01,844 --> 00:40:06,949
And to this very day, I can tell that story
very freely and openly and all the business
679
00:40:06,949 --> 00:40:11,030
cases that are written, all the different
schools have have interestingly evolved from
680
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:14,505
initially what a jerk, what a stupid guy this
white guy was too.
681
00:40:14,505 --> 00:40:19,625
Oh, now that we know the whole story, how
indeed it it's the right way to fix.
682
00:40:19,625 --> 00:40:23,964
And I think the phrase that I use, it's it it
is never too late to do the right thing.
683
00:40:23,980 --> 00:40:27,179
And I think that's the philosophy I went in
there, but that's how it came about.
684
00:40:27,179 --> 00:40:29,099
So that was probably a pretty pointed moment.
685
00:40:29,099 --> 00:40:31,679
You would say, well, getting my new heart was
cool.
686
00:40:31,739 --> 00:40:32,139
Yeah.
687
00:40:32,139 --> 00:40:32,719
It was.
688
00:40:32,815 --> 00:40:34,815
On my birthday, the heat and cooler.
689
00:40:34,815 --> 00:40:40,735
And so I've had a lot of wonderful moments, but
the one that's most compelling is this concept
690
00:40:40,735 --> 00:40:45,159
of telling the truth and just be an auditing
things and moving on.
691
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:46,900
And, actually, wrap it up here.
692
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:50,679
What would you say do you want people to
remember as your legacy?
693
00:40:54,565 --> 00:41:01,030
You know, in my final note, when I left United,
I wrote a long note about a lot of different
694
00:41:01,030 --> 00:41:04,949
things, and there was 2 things that I wrote
that are are pointed.
695
00:41:04,949 --> 00:41:10,405
And and first of all, was I I said I arrived to
change United, but at the end, United changed
696
00:41:10,405 --> 00:41:10,905
me.
697
00:41:11,605 --> 00:41:17,500
But from a legacy perspective, I I stopped and
I had the lights in the large auditorium turn
698
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:18,559
on into the crowd.
699
00:41:19,019 --> 00:41:23,224
I said, you know, we together have built what's
in this room.
700
00:41:23,224 --> 00:41:29,224
These people, you leaders, what you've done,
you are my legacy to carry this this motion
701
00:41:29,224 --> 00:41:29,724
forward.
702
00:41:29,869 --> 00:41:35,390
And to this day with my successor in place and
the COVID, Ashman, you know, United's beginning
703
00:41:35,390 --> 00:41:37,914
to come out of it, you know, kind of ahead of
everyone else.
704
00:41:37,914 --> 00:41:44,394
And that legacy of of durability of culture,
their tagline and their advertising is good,
705
00:41:44,394 --> 00:41:49,039
leads the way, their efforts around
sustainability by far the largest.
706
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:54,000
All of those things are a product of the team
that was so broken when I first started
707
00:41:54,204 --> 00:41:57,964
transformed them into a workable family, and
now they're really shining.
708
00:41:57,964 --> 00:41:58,684
Alright, everyone.
709
00:41:58,684 --> 00:42:00,684
Well, that wraps it up for today's episode.
710
00:42:00,684 --> 00:42:01,964
We'll have a link posted.
711
00:42:01,964 --> 00:42:06,559
We'll see when this airs, but will eventually
update the episode description with Oscar's new
712
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:12,105
book turnaround time that details and goes more
into depth with his story over at United and as
713
00:42:12,105 --> 00:42:12,505
a leader.
714
00:42:12,505 --> 00:42:13,385
But, alright, everyone.
715
00:42:13,385 --> 00:42:16,105
That wraps it up, and thank you, Oscar, for
taking the time to join.
716
00:42:16,105 --> 00:42:16,925
It's a pleasure.
717
00:42:17,224 --> 00:42:17,965
Thank you.