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Welcome to Climb Your Mountain, the only podcast that teaches you how to use coaching, neuroscience, and mindfulness to overcome life's challenges.
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I'm Sarah Mauer, a certified life and performance coach, frontwork facilitator, and trance geek.
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Each week, I show you how to change your brain fast for good and without struggle.
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Whether you're training to climb an actual mountain, building a business, dating, or climbing a fucking rebellion, these tools will help.
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Listen and learn so you can enjoy more of what you want.
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Happiness, fun, connection, creativity, courage, and the occasional mountaintop moment.
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Ready?
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Let's do this.
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Hey y'all, how you doing?
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I'm having a little bit of a rough day here in the studio.
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I'm with my 18-year-old cats, and one thing that's just becoming apparent in the last month or so is he's having such a hard time getting around.
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So, for example, in my house I have mostly laminate flooring, and if he sits down on the laminate, he can't stand up.
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Like his little legs just will not work and he'll kind of scramble and I have to go pick him up.
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So I may have to interrupt recording to do this.
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One thing the vet suggested that's been really helpful is I've just laid yoga mats basically everywhere.
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So now he likes to walk on those, and that's that's actually really helpful.
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So hopefully we'll keep him going for a bit longer.
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But it's the saddest thing ever to see.
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If you've ever had like a really old pet, definitely reach out and tell me how you survived it.
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Maybe on the Instagram, on the socials.
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It's it's so hard on the heart, for sure.
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And let's talk a little bit about choosing your first.
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I'm gonna say coach here.
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A lot of what I will say also applies to therapy.
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And today's episode is the third installment of what I'm calling the money series, all about investing in your personal growth, your mindsets, your mental health, your emotional health.
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And over the past two episodes, we talked about some of the differences between coaching and therapy as helping modalities.
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I talked in the last episode in depth about what kind of when you would really invest in therapy and when you might start with coaching.
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And also, there's times when working with both would be really helpful.
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And I thought today I would really dive into some of my tips about hiring your first coach, or a lot of what I'll say will also apply to hiring your first therapist.
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And then the final installment in this series is gonna be next week, and that's when we're gonna get juicy.
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We're gonna talk straight talk about money and coaching and personal development and mental health, and I'll answer some questions that I think a lot of people are wondering, but I don't hear a lot of people in my industry, which is coaching, talking about, which is why wouldn't you always go to a therapist, for example?
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They have more training.
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And why does coaching cost so much money?
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There is a perception out there that coaching is in some ways overpriced.
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And I'm gonna dive into all that.
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I have lots of thoughts on all of that, and I don't hear a lot of people talking about this.
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And I think it's really important to consider some of these things when you're thinking about investing in you.
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Because really, you are your biggest asset.
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You're the one that you're gonna be living with for your entire life.
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So anytime you have a chance to invest in your brain, anytime you have a chance to invest in your emotional health, I feel like it's so important and it's such a big decision, and it's worth, I think, answering all these questions that maybe in the past a bit in marketing, especially for coaching, have kind of been glossed over a bit.
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So that's what's coming up.
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But let's dive into the topic for today.
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Choosing your helper.
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I'll call it a helper.
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We could be talking, I'm gonna be talking mostly about coaches, but as I said, this could also be a therapist.
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And it does depend a little bit on your modality, whether you are looking at therapy or coaching, how much choice you have.
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Often, but not always, you will have less choice if you're hiring a therapist.
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And this is especially true if you're using your insurance to pay for the therapist.
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There's probably people that are in your network.
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Your network may be kind of small on a lot of insurance plans.
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And this can also be true if you're getting your therapy through an organization, say your employer.
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Many employers have employee assistance programs, they'll offer you a certain number of sessions with a therapist, but you won't necessarily get to choose who that therapist is.
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Or even if you're still in college, for example, and you are going to your school's mental health center center to get some therapy, you may just be assigned a therapist.
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And in some cases, I think you have the option to change, but you may have fewer options.
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It may be like one of the two therapists that is actually working at that center providing that service.
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So um there are some exceptions to this.
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I, a couple years ago, did some online therapy with BetterHelp, and that's a service that actually they will pair you with a therapist just based on um a questionnaire you fill out initially.
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But if you don't click with that therapist after a session, you're allowed to change.
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They'll reassign you.
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And I actually did one session with a therapist, and I was like, I think she's okay.
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I I don't I don't feel like a huge connection.
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And then I found that she was really difficult to schedule with.
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Like she canceled our appointments right before, and I, you know, if like things come up.
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I I know as a coach, sometimes there's a family emergency, and I do have to cancel an appointment, but her explanation just felt a little weak.
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It was just like, meh, this isn't working for me, this time slot.
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And I'm like, well, you could have told me like more than two hours before, if if I don't know, it just fell kind of flat.
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So I switched therapists, and I really love the second therapist.
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It was it was a good working relationship.
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So sometimes you do get a chance to switch.
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And if you are hiring your own therapist and going private pay, especially, meaning you just pay them directly, it's it's not covered by your insurance, then you often will have more choice.
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Maybe, for example, your friend goes to a therapist that's been really helpful for them, and you want to go to the same therapist.
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If that person's not in your insurance network, you could, you know, just pay their price and um have sessions with them.
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And yeah, often that will give you a lot more choice.
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And with coaching, coaching, it really tends to be the opposite.
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You tend to almost have too many choices out there.
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There's so many people you could hire.
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I am actually going through this right now.
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I'm actually looking at hiring a business coach, and I know so many coaches, so I'm like, there's so many people that would be great, and it's a bit overwhelming.
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So I am actually some of the things I'm gonna talk to you about today, experiencing in real life and going through in my own head right at this moment as I hire my next business coach.
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It's also true that you might be assigned a coach, for example, in my day job, I still work part-time at my boss, was in a program where they got some free coaching, and I think they were assigned coaches, they didn't necessarily get to choose, but assuming you're hiring your own coach, you will generally have just endless choices.
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So, how do you choose?
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So, I'm gonna start with my number one tip.
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This is kind of the prime directive, and I think this is true.
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Whether you're hiring a coach or a therapist, you might not have as much choice with a therapist, but to the extent that you do have choice, you really want to follow this.
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And this is that really liking and respecting and feeling respected by the person really matters a lot.
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And I think this is true in all helping professions.
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The helper-client alliance is so key.
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And I would say that your relationship with that person is probably more transformative than their education, their training, their specific modalities that they use, the testimonials on their website.
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And this may sound just kind of icky as I'm saying it.
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I'm like, it almost sounds like I'm like, go with the most, the nicest, most likable person.
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And I would say that that's not necessarily true.
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But when you think about hiring a coach, I want you to consider you're gonna be spending a lot of time with this person.
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If you're in therapy, sometimes people go to therapy for years.
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If you're in coaching, it's pretty common, especially if you are going with a very results-based coach.
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I definitely operate this way, that they're gonna want you to come for a few months and they will actually um not work with people who only want to come in for three sessions.
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So, for example, my packages that I sell are six months, and there's a very specific reason for that.
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It's that that's how long behavior change takes.
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We know just from research that for someone to change a habit, it takes a minimum of about three months of practice, and that's the ideal situation.
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In real life, what's often happening is that you go out to, for example, start to eat better or start to work out more, and you start strong and then life gets in the way.
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Your job is having you travel unexpectedly, or there's a family emergency that's causing a lot of stress and taking up a lot of your time.
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So your mind is not dedicated to that behavior change.
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So we actually, most coaches that I know, and definitely myself, like build in some extra time to really A, make sure the change has time to happen, even when life gets lifey.
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And then there's also so much value.
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Like, if you think about like when you learn to ride a bike for the first time, the first time you took your little feet off the ground and pedaled and the bike went straight, it was probably kind of wobbly.
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Like you might have gone for 10 feet and then had to put your foot down, or gone for like five feet and then fallen over.
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Our skills, when we're learning a new skill or a new behavior, they're very fragile in the beginning.
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And the more you have time to repeat them, to repeat them in different situations, to fail at doing them and then troubleshoot what went wrong.
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Why in this case did I um eat things that were off of my plan?
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Or why this week?
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Has it been really hard to work out?
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The more you have time to just like work through that in a supported environment, the stronger that habit's gonna get.
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It's gonna become like the person that can go out and ride a bike for 30 miles and never give one little wobble.
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And sometimes their hands aren't even on the handlebars, the hands are in the pockets.
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So that's another reason that I think having longer coaching engagements is so important.
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Um, and to get take this back to choosing your person, if you think about it, like for example, say you're coaching with me.
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We're gonna be meeting pretty much every week for about six months.
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There might be some times you go on vacation, I go on vacation, things come up.
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But that's a lot of time with one person.
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That is, I spend more time with my clients than I spend with a lot of my family members, I like the ones that don't live with me, a lot of my close friends I don't see every week, but I see these clients every week and they see me every week.
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So if that relationship isn't trusting, respectful, enjoyable, then coaching for a long time can become really tough in therapy, especially the longer-term therapy, can become really tough.
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So, with me, for example, if you don't like a bit of a lighter style, if you don't like to have fun in sessions and play a bit and explore, if you're very like business-oriented and structured and it must be A, B, and C, like straight to the results, um, you probably wouldn't enjoy coaching with me.
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There is probably a coach out there that like matches your style much better.
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So I think it's so important just to get to know how, and you can I'll talk in a in a minute how you can kind of suss this out, even if you've never had a session with someone.
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I think it's so important just to really think about if you're really going to like working for this person long term, like working with this person long term.
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So I'll share a little bit of my own experience.
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This is a therapy experience.
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Um, I've had seen several therapists, and I've seen several who practiced what's called cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT.
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And CBT is considered the evidence-based gold standard of therapy.
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It's what we know from the research really works and gets results for people.
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And I've kind of found working with some of these very experienced CBT therapists, that it didn't do a lot for me.
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Like I just had a hard time just really connecting to the person and connecting to the work.
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I didn't feel like emotionally seen, heard, um, respected in that relationship.
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And therefore, in a few cases, it meant that I didn't keep going to therapy.
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I just stopped.
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And in the cases where I did give for longer, it just meant that I didn't get amazing results.
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And the therapists that I actually got the most results with, the one who I would say like really changed my life, and there's still things that happen, and I'm I'm like, wow, I remember back to a session with Meredith where she talked about this, and at the time I didn't really get it, but now I get it.
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So her work has stayed with me for a long time.
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Like I would say it was probably about 20 years ago I worked with her.
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And she was actually using a therapy modality that I wouldn't say it's super unusual, but it's not one of the ones that people talk about a lot.
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It's kind of not in favor these days.
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If you're curious and want to look it up, it's called transactional analysis.
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And I really suspect why her therapy was so effective for me was probably 20% the modality.
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I do think there's some cool stuff in transactional analysis, but I really think it was 80% the relationship, and there's no way to know for sure or quantify that for sure, of course.
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But I really think that our working relationship was so good that I was really just able to hear her on a deeper level than some of these other people.
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And I another thing that thing that I think was interesting was that some of these CBT therapists that just didn't click for me, they were actual psychologists.
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So they had PhD level training.
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And Meredith, my counselor, that was very helpful to me, she was just she was a counselor.
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She had a master's degree in counseling, so less training, less education, but way more effective for me.
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So I think it's also goes to show that education and a degree doesn't necessarily translate into amazing clinical ability and amazing results for clients and amazing results for all clients.
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I suspect some of these psychologists that didn't work that great for me might have worked really good for other people.
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But yeah, in my case, it was a counselor using a lesser-known method, and it really was the thing that got results, and I really do think that that was because of the relationship.
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So I've also had a ton of coaches, and I would say I've really never had a coach that I didn't click with.
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And I think some of that comes down to I chose each of my own coaches, like I chose them specifically for me.
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Um, and I'll talk a little bit more about how in a second.
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But one thing I do want to say right up front is having coached, I think just off the top of my head with seven different coaches now, I can say from authority that having a fancy certification or a lot of Instagram followers or glowing testimonials or a beautiful website does not necessarily make an amazing coach.
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And there are a lot of amazing coaches out there who don't have any of those things.
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The coach that helped me the most, she didn't even have a website.
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I hired her, she was someone I knew through my network, and she was an amazing coach.
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I talked a couple, I it might have been in the last episode about doing some hypnocoaching on something that might be more of a therapy issue typically, but I was willing to work with her, just she was someone that I already knew, and she got me such amazing results.
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I felt like I got 10 years of therapy in a two-day and weekend intensive coaching with her, which was really amazing.
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And she was someone who didn't have a website, didn't have a huge Instagram at the time, didn't really, I don't know, like have some of the things that um make a coach look fancy and authoritative.
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There was not like a million testimonials on the internet for her, but she was a really good coach, and I'm so glad I found her, and I'm so glad that none of that stuff was important to me in that case.
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So if you are hiring someone and you really want to get a feel for if they are gonna be a good person that you're gonna enjoy working with over time, a couple of things I would really recommend you doing.
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First of all, if you're hiring a one-to-one coach, a lot of them are gonna offer either a consult, that's what I call it, the free consult.
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Some people call it a discovery call.
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It goes by different names, but typically there's an opportunity to go and talk to the coach, to really describe what kind of work you want to do in coaching, um, to really hear kind of their thoughts on what's gonna help you, what direction they would take things.
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And I think that that's a really good thing to do.
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Um, I know for me, when I'm a coach that's actually doing consults with potential clients, I think a lot of clients come in and they're like, oh, this is the part where she's gonna sell me or try to change my mind, or it's gonna be like going to a used car lot.
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And what I'm really looking for in the consult is a few really simple things.
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First of all, I want to make sure that this person is actually someone that coaching and coaching with me is gonna help.
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And also I'm looking a bit for fit.
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I'm like, is this a person that seems to like appreciate my style, enjoy talking to me?
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And really, like the sales thing is the furthest thing from my mind.
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I'm just kind of thinking about like, is this going to be a person that I can help, that I can get results for?
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And I'm usually really honest and upfront about that, if for some reason I think that that's that's not gonna be the case.
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And I really one of the big things that I will occasionally do on these consoles is suggest therapy first.
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That therapy might be the place to start, the way to go.
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And definitely, whenever you have resolved X, Y, or Z or feel like you are ready to A, B, and C, definitely.
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Think about coaching, but maybe therapy first.
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That's pretty common on the consult.
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So definitely if if the person you're thinking about working with, therapists will sometimes do this too, but definitely coaches, definitely take advantage of that free call.
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Definitely go in, ask all your questions, really get a feel for how this person and you would work together and what that would be like before you make your decision.
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I think that that's a really smart thing to do.
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Another question that comes up is, especially with coaches, since that industry is unregulated, how can one do due diligence before hiring or investing?
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So, what due diligence means, and if you're hiring a therapist, it's usually possible to look up that therapist in your state's database, make sure they've not been disciplined, make sure they're licensed, and that their credentials are all in order.
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And that doesn't necessarily mean that clinically they're going to be an awesome match, but definitely it's it's it gives you some reassurance, right?
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That you're hiring someone that's qualified to do the job.
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And with coaches, you could also do that if they voluntarily engage in a credentialing program.
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If they're ICF certified, for example, you could look them up in ICF's database, but a lot of coaches won't be.
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That's that's I would say the minority of coaches actually get those voluntary credentials.
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And some very good coaches just don't bother with those because they don't need to.
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So, how do you do your due diligence and find out if a coach is a good investment?
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.480
And I think a couple of things.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:24:02.720
Um you could ask for references, however, most coaches don't actually give those, and most therapists don't actually give those.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:13.359
I know that I personally don't, not because I'm trying to hide something, but because the giving of the references actually breaks confidentiality.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:21.680
And I could ask my clients to like voluntarily do that, but I feel like that's just not something I want to ask them to do.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:28.799
I I don't feel like that's the most the best thing for them in that situation, even though it would be good for me.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.920
So I I generally do not give references.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:35.359
I would say that that's gonna be true of a lot of coaches.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:45.359
So how do you really get a feel for a coach or a therapist if you're hiring one that is independent before you invest?
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:57.119
And I would say the best way, the way that I tend to do this, the way I'm doing it right now, consume a lot of that person's free marketing materials and content.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:05.359
So things like podcasts, blogs, some people will do actual webinars where they're teaching on a topic.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.440
Often that will be for free.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.680
Um, looking at their social media, joining their email list.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:19.920
Email tends to be pretty intimate where they share some of their more personal stuff, um, some of their best tips.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.720
So definitely you could join their email list.
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.519
Most most practitioners will have one.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:38.880
And just use these free sources to really get a feel for their style, what kind of clients they work with, what kind of problems they are really good at solving, and see if you get value.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:49.920
If the person's going to be a good person for you, you should actually get small shifts in your thinking, in your behavior, just from their content.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.119
They should be able to give you some value ahead of time.
00:25:53.279 --> 00:26:06.720
And if you are actually feeling like they're helping you, even without you hiring them and hearing your problem personally from you, I think that's a really good sign that it's going to be a good match.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:16.720
I have personally hired most of my coaches, either from my network, they were people I knew, or from their podcasts.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:23.599
I hired one of my, I was she, she might have even been before the hypnocoach.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:24.880
I think this is true.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:30.319
Before the hypnocoach, that was really helpful to me that I just talked about a minute ago.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:38.640
I was in a group coaching program, and it was specifically Brooke Castillo's self-coaching scholars program.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:42.319
And unfortunately, this program is not around anymore.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:49.920
It was basically a membership model, and you could go and study with Brooke on a different topic every month.
00:26:50.079 --> 00:27:01.119
She would go in depth, and you also had group coaching calls, sometimes with Brooke or with other coaches that she had hired, and you also got one-to-one coaching.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:12.400
They were 20-minute sessions, I think, and it was usually not with Brooke, but with um someone that she hired and had trained personally, and they were all like really good coaches.
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:21.359
So I know I found that one through Brooke's podcast, and I feel like that was just an amazing experience for me.
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:33.279
I feel like the person that I was before self-coaching scholars, and I was in it for a year, and the person I was afterwards were just completely different people.
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.079
Like it was such an inflection point in my life.
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:45.200
I was just at the end of it thinking about life and problems and myself and my capabilities and my capacity so differently.
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:53.759
And that was just from a group, not even one-to-one, um a group general life coaching program.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:59.200
Like it wasn't even specifically niched on any particular topic.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.720
It was just like, let's make your life better.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.200
So I found that through Brooke's podcast.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.160
Like, Brooke is someone I 100% like found.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:13.519
I think she's another podcaster that I like mentioned, really liking her podcast.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:21.599
And then I kind of from her podcast, like it was changing my mindset so much and the way that I thought about things.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.279
I was like, I really have to get the paid stuff.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.319
I have to work with her and just see what this can do for me.
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.559
And it was truly life-changing.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.640
So that was really cool.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:39.440
Um, yeah, so podcasts, great, um, great place to look.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.160
Um, but so many other place to places too.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:43.759
There's still coaches that have blogs.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:47.200
There's still almost all coaches do some social media.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:53.359
So just kind of see what your person is doing a lot of that you're interested in and really try to get a feel.
00:28:53.680 --> 00:29:12.240
Um, I would a final thing that I'll offer to you, and this might be more at the consult stage when you're actually on the phone talking to them about working together, is if you want to one one other way that you can do due diligence is just by checking the terms and conditions of working with them.
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:21.200
I think it is so important and so like smart to invest smartly.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.519
And that means just understanding exactly what you're investing in.
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:35.279
So, questions, for example, that you can ask is what happens if I'm not satisfied one month into this six-month coaching package?
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.400
And what are your refund policies?
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:43.519
What if I feel that I have gotten my result early?
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:45.039
What happens?
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:55.200
And generally, coaches will be pretty happy to tell you, most coaches that have been practicing for any amount of time will have answers to these questions.
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:56.799
They'll have policies.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.799
And the policy might be that, you know, once you pay, you pay.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:02.079
There's no refunds.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:08.079
I find that this is, you know, the thing that helps people get over the finish line.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.920
When they know there's no going back, it helps them be invested.
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:22.240
Um then, um, so that's that's the reason that a lot of coaches will have a no refund policy once you've once you've purchased your package.
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:23.279
You're in.
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.160
Um, I personally am a bit more flexible.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:36.160
My my my refund policy is I generally do not want to be holding someone hostage in the coaching.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:52.480
So if one month in they're just feeling like it's not a good match, if they are making a good faith effort to um implement what were the coaching and they're coming to sessions, they're listening, they're prepared, they're bringing questions.
00:30:52.640 --> 00:31:00.880
And if it's just still not working for them, I always am pretty happy to cut them loose, to refund unused sessions.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.759
I do, I don't generally allow people to ghost.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:25.920
Like you don't get to, I feel like this does not serve people to allow you as a client to just like disappear and then like four months later, like ask for your money back and not really have a conversation about like because even if it's not working for you, there's probably something useful to learn there.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:34.640
So it really serves you to be able to come to your coach and be like, hey, this is what I'm seeing, this is what I'm experiencing.
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.799
Um, and then we can have a talk about if there's a way to make it work for you.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:48.640
And even if not, even if you're gonna leave, like what might be helpful in the future, like when you're investing in your next coach, what what might you want to bear in mind?
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.920
So I always require a conversation and open communication.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:32:05.039
Like, I don't give money back to people that ghosted, but um, generally I'm very happy to give money back to people for whom it's just genuinely not a good fit.
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:14.960
And to be honest, that has been in the years I've been doing this, just I can probably count the people on one hand, and that is I I'm super happy to do it.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:34.400
I feel like I feel like in relationships, like I said, where the connection between the people is so crucial that I want you to be with someone that you really connect with and and can spend sufficient time to actually change what you want to change.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:38.559
So I'm always like happy and open to that discussion.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.440
So, friends, I hope that's super helpful.
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:53.200
If you do have any questions about hiring a coach, about consults, about um the differences, anything we've discussed, differences between coaching and therapy.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:59.680
Um, if your particular issue, is it a therapy issue, is it a coaching issue, reach out anytime.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:07.119
Um, you can contact me on social media, you can contact me by my email, which I'll put in the show notes.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:14.559
And you could also, if you're feeling like you're really ready for a deeper discussion, schedule a consult with me.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:24.319
We can really talk about what um you are wanting to change, what you are wanting to work on, and specifically is this a coaching issue, is this a therapy issue?
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:30.240
If coaching, if I was gonna work with you as a coach, like how specifically would I do that?
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:31.519
What would that look like?
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:38.480
So definitely reach out anytime if you have questions, and I will see you here next week.
00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:08.640
Welcome to Climb Your Mountain, the only podcast that teaches you how to use coaching, neuroscience, and mindfulness to overcome life's challenges.
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:14.560
I'm Sarah Mauer, a certified life and performance coach, frontwork facilitator, and trance geek.
00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:19.199
Each week, I show you how to change your brain fast for good and without struggle.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:26.399
Whether you're training to climb an actual mountain, building a business, dating, or climbing a fucking rebellion, these tools will help.
00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.359
Listen and learn so you can enjoy more of what you want.
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:35.200
Happiness, fun, connection, creativity, courage, and the occasional mountaintop moment.
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Ready?
00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:37.200
Let's do this.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:39.600
Hey y'all, how you doing?
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I'm having a little bit of a rough day here in the studio.
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I'm with my 18-year-old cats, and one thing that's just becoming apparent in the last month or so is he's having such a hard time getting around.
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So, for example, in my house I have mostly laminate flooring, and if he sits down on the laminate, he can't stand up.
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:09.920
Like his little legs just will not work and he'll kind of scramble and I have to go pick him up.
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So I may have to interrupt recording to do this.
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One thing the vet suggested that's been really helpful is I've just laid yoga mats basically everywhere.
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So now he likes to walk on those, and that's that's actually really helpful.
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So hopefully we'll keep him going for a bit longer.
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But it's the saddest thing ever to see.
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If you've ever had like a really old pet, definitely reach out and tell me how you survived it.
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Maybe on the Instagram, on the socials.
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It's it's so hard on the heart, for sure.
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And let's talk a little bit about choosing your first.
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I'm gonna say coach here.
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A lot of what I will say also applies to therapy.
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And today's episode is the third installment of what I'm calling the money series, all about investing in your personal growth, your mindsets, your mental health, your emotional health.
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And over the past two episodes, we talked about some of the differences between coaching and therapy as helping modalities.
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I talked in the last episode in depth about what kind of when you would really invest in therapy and when you might start with coaching.
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And also, there's times when working with both would be really helpful.
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And I thought today I would really dive into some of my tips about hiring your first coach, or a lot of what I'll say will also apply to hiring your first therapist.
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And then the final installment in this series is gonna be next week, and that's when we're gonna get juicy.
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We're gonna talk straight talk about money and coaching and personal development and mental health, and I'll answer some questions that I think a lot of people are wondering, but I don't hear a lot of people in my industry, which is coaching, talking about, which is why wouldn't you always go to a therapist, for example?
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They have more training.
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And why does coaching cost so much money?
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There is a perception out there that coaching is in some ways overpriced.
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And I'm gonna dive into all that.
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I have lots of thoughts on all of that, and I don't hear a lot of people talking about this.
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And I think it's really important to consider some of these things when you're thinking about investing in you.
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Because really, you are your biggest asset.
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You're the one that you're gonna be living with for your entire life.
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So anytime you have a chance to invest in your brain, anytime you have a chance to invest in your emotional health, I feel like it's so important and it's such a big decision, and it's worth, I think, answering all these questions that maybe in the past a bit in marketing, especially for coaching, have kind of been glossed over a bit.
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So that's what's coming up.
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But let's dive into the topic for today.
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Choosing your helper.
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I'll call it a helper.
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We could be talking, I'm gonna be talking mostly about coaches, but as I said, this could also be a therapist.
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And it does depend a little bit on your modality, whether you are looking at therapy or coaching, how much choice you have.
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Often, but not always, you will have less choice if you're hiring a therapist.
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And this is especially true if you're using your insurance to pay for the therapist.
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There's probably people that are in your network.
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Your network may be kind of small on a lot of insurance plans.
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And this can also be true if you're getting your therapy through an organization, say your employer.
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Many employers have employee assistance programs, they'll offer you a certain number of sessions with a therapist, but you won't necessarily get to choose who that therapist is.
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Or even if you're still in college, for example, and you are going to your school's mental health center center to get some therapy, you may just be assigned a therapist.
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And in some cases, I think you have the option to change, but you may have fewer options.
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It may be like one of the two therapists that is actually working at that center providing that service.
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So um there are some exceptions to this.
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I, a couple years ago, did some online therapy with BetterHelp, and that's a service that actually they will pair you with a therapist just based on um a questionnaire you fill out initially.
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But if you don't click with that therapist after a session, you're allowed to change.
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They'll reassign you.
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And I actually did one session with a therapist, and I was like, I think she's okay.
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I I don't I don't feel like a huge connection.
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And then I found that she was really difficult to schedule with.
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Like she canceled our appointments right before, and I, you know, if like things come up.
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I I know as a coach, sometimes there's a family emergency, and I do have to cancel an appointment, but her explanation just felt a little weak.
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It was just like, meh, this isn't working for me, this time slot.
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And I'm like, well, you could have told me like more than two hours before, if if I don't know, it just fell kind of flat.
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So I switched therapists, and I really love the second therapist.
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It was it was a good working relationship.
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So sometimes you do get a chance to switch.
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And if you are hiring your own therapist and going private pay, especially, meaning you just pay them directly, it's it's not covered by your insurance, then you often will have more choice.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:16.000
Maybe, for example, your friend goes to a therapist that's been really helpful for them, and you want to go to the same therapist.
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If that person's not in your insurance network, you could, you know, just pay their price and um have sessions with them.
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And yeah, often that will give you a lot more choice.
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And with coaching, coaching, it really tends to be the opposite.
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You tend to almost have too many choices out there.
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There's so many people you could hire.
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I am actually going through this right now.
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I'm actually looking at hiring a business coach, and I know so many coaches, so I'm like, there's so many people that would be great, and it's a bit overwhelming.
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So I am actually some of the things I'm gonna talk to you about today, experiencing in real life and going through in my own head right at this moment as I hire my next business coach.
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It's also true that you might be assigned a coach, for example, in my day job, I still work part-time at my boss, was in a program where they got some free coaching, and I think they were assigned coaches, they didn't necessarily get to choose, but assuming you're hiring your own coach, you will generally have just endless choices.
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So, how do you choose?
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So, I'm gonna start with my number one tip.
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This is kind of the prime directive, and I think this is true.
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Whether you're hiring a coach or a therapist, you might not have as much choice with a therapist, but to the extent that you do have choice, you really want to follow this.
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And this is that really liking and respecting and feeling respected by the person really matters a lot.
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And I think this is true in all helping professions.
00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.639
The helper-client alliance is so key.
00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:18.720
And I would say that your relationship with that person is probably more transformative than their education, their training, their specific modalities that they use, the testimonials on their website.
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And this may sound just kind of icky as I'm saying it.
00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:31.039
I'm like, it almost sounds like I'm like, go with the most, the nicest, most likable person.
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And I would say that that's not necessarily true.
00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:41.679
But when you think about hiring a coach, I want you to consider you're gonna be spending a lot of time with this person.
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If you're in therapy, sometimes people go to therapy for years.
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If you're in coaching, it's pretty common, especially if you are going with a very results-based coach.
00:09:54.879 --> 00:10:06.399
I definitely operate this way, that they're gonna want you to come for a few months and they will actually um not work with people who only want to come in for three sessions.
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:13.600
So, for example, my packages that I sell are six months, and there's a very specific reason for that.
00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.120
It's that that's how long behavior change takes.
00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:26.960
We know just from research that for someone to change a habit, it takes a minimum of about three months of practice, and that's the ideal situation.
00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:40.080
In real life, what's often happening is that you go out to, for example, start to eat better or start to work out more, and you start strong and then life gets in the way.
00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:49.200
Your job is having you travel unexpectedly, or there's a family emergency that's causing a lot of stress and taking up a lot of your time.
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.440
So your mind is not dedicated to that behavior change.
00:10:53.679 --> 00:11:07.679
So we actually, most coaches that I know, and definitely myself, like build in some extra time to really A, make sure the change has time to happen, even when life gets lifey.
00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:10.879
And then there's also so much value.
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:24.080
Like, if you think about like when you learn to ride a bike for the first time, the first time you took your little feet off the ground and pedaled and the bike went straight, it was probably kind of wobbly.
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:31.600
Like you might have gone for 10 feet and then had to put your foot down, or gone for like five feet and then fallen over.
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:39.759
Our skills, when we're learning a new skill or a new behavior, they're very fragile in the beginning.
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:50.879
And the more you have time to repeat them, to repeat them in different situations, to fail at doing them and then troubleshoot what went wrong.
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:56.080
Why in this case did I um eat things that were off of my plan?
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Or why this week?
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Has it been really hard to work out?
00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:06.559
The more you have time to just like work through that in a supported environment, the stronger that habit's gonna get.
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:14.879
It's gonna become like the person that can go out and ride a bike for 30 miles and never give one little wobble.
00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:19.679
And sometimes their hands aren't even on the handlebars, the hands are in the pockets.
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:26.879
So that's another reason that I think having longer coaching engagements is so important.
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:36.159
Um, and to get take this back to choosing your person, if you think about it, like for example, say you're coaching with me.
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:41.440
We're gonna be meeting pretty much every week for about six months.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.320
There might be some times you go on vacation, I go on vacation, things come up.
00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.559
But that's a lot of time with one person.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:13:05.679
That is, I spend more time with my clients than I spend with a lot of my family members, I like the ones that don't live with me, a lot of my close friends I don't see every week, but I see these clients every week and they see me every week.
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:23.759
So if that relationship isn't trusting, respectful, enjoyable, then coaching for a long time can become really tough in therapy, especially the longer-term therapy, can become really tough.
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:45.919
So, with me, for example, if you don't like a bit of a lighter style, if you don't like to have fun in sessions and play a bit and explore, if you're very like business-oriented and structured and it must be A, B, and C, like straight to the results, um, you probably wouldn't enjoy coaching with me.
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.720
There is probably a coach out there that like matches your style much better.
00:13:51.039 --> 00:14:02.639
So I think it's so important just to get to know how, and you can I'll talk in a in a minute how you can kind of suss this out, even if you've never had a session with someone.
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:13.440
I think it's so important just to really think about if you're really going to like working for this person long term, like working with this person long term.
00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:16.799
So I'll share a little bit of my own experience.
00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:19.200
This is a therapy experience.
00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:29.519
Um, I've had seen several therapists, and I've seen several who practiced what's called cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT.
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:34.080
And CBT is considered the evidence-based gold standard of therapy.
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:40.159
It's what we know from the research really works and gets results for people.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:49.679
And I've kind of found working with some of these very experienced CBT therapists, that it didn't do a lot for me.
00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:57.840
Like I just had a hard time just really connecting to the person and connecting to the work.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:06.399
I didn't feel like emotionally seen, heard, um, respected in that relationship.
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:11.919
And therefore, in a few cases, it meant that I didn't keep going to therapy.
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.120
I just stopped.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:19.039
And in the cases where I did give for longer, it just meant that I didn't get amazing results.
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:38.000
And the therapists that I actually got the most results with, the one who I would say like really changed my life, and there's still things that happen, and I'm I'm like, wow, I remember back to a session with Meredith where she talked about this, and at the time I didn't really get it, but now I get it.
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:41.200
So her work has stayed with me for a long time.
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:45.600
Like I would say it was probably about 20 years ago I worked with her.
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:56.559
And she was actually using a therapy modality that I wouldn't say it's super unusual, but it's not one of the ones that people talk about a lot.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.279
It's kind of not in favor these days.
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:03.440
If you're curious and want to look it up, it's called transactional analysis.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:12.720
And I really suspect why her therapy was so effective for me was probably 20% the modality.
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:25.360
I do think there's some cool stuff in transactional analysis, but I really think it was 80% the relationship, and there's no way to know for sure or quantify that for sure, of course.
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:37.279
But I really think that our working relationship was so good that I was really just able to hear her on a deeper level than some of these other people.
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:48.000
And I another thing that thing that I think was interesting was that some of these CBT therapists that just didn't click for me, they were actual psychologists.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.080
So they had PhD level training.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.600
And Meredith, my counselor, that was very helpful to me, she was just she was a counselor.
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:06.640
She had a master's degree in counseling, so less training, less education, but way more effective for me.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:22.559
So I think it's also goes to show that education and a degree doesn't necessarily translate into amazing clinical ability and amazing results for clients and amazing results for all clients.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:28.640
I suspect some of these psychologists that didn't work that great for me might have worked really good for other people.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:43.119
But yeah, in my case, it was a counselor using a lesser-known method, and it really was the thing that got results, and I really do think that that was because of the relationship.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:52.480
So I've also had a ton of coaches, and I would say I've really never had a coach that I didn't click with.
00:17:52.640 --> 00:18:00.559
And I think some of that comes down to I chose each of my own coaches, like I chose them specifically for me.
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.720
Um, and I'll talk a little bit more about how in a second.
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:28.480
But one thing I do want to say right up front is having coached, I think just off the top of my head with seven different coaches now, I can say from authority that having a fancy certification or a lot of Instagram followers or glowing testimonials or a beautiful website does not necessarily make an amazing coach.
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:33.759
And there are a lot of amazing coaches out there who don't have any of those things.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.319
The coach that helped me the most, she didn't even have a website.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.000
I hired her, she was someone I knew through my network, and she was an amazing coach.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:19:01.359
I talked a couple, I it might have been in the last episode about doing some hypnocoaching on something that might be more of a therapy issue typically, but I was willing to work with her, just she was someone that I already knew, and she got me such amazing results.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:11.759
I felt like I got 10 years of therapy in a two-day and weekend intensive coaching with her, which was really amazing.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:27.759
And she was someone who didn't have a website, didn't have a huge Instagram at the time, didn't really, I don't know, like have some of the things that um make a coach look fancy and authoritative.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:41.519
There was not like a million testimonials on the internet for her, but she was a really good coach, and I'm so glad I found her, and I'm so glad that none of that stuff was important to me in that case.
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:57.599
So if you are hiring someone and you really want to get a feel for if they are gonna be a good person that you're gonna enjoy working with over time, a couple of things I would really recommend you doing.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:07.680
First of all, if you're hiring a one-to-one coach, a lot of them are gonna offer either a consult, that's what I call it, the free consult.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.000
Some people call it a discovery call.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:30.400
It goes by different names, but typically there's an opportunity to go and talk to the coach, to really describe what kind of work you want to do in coaching, um, to really hear kind of their thoughts on what's gonna help you, what direction they would take things.
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.480
And I think that that's a really good thing to do.
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:50.880
Um, I know for me, when I'm a coach that's actually doing consults with potential clients, I think a lot of clients come in and they're like, oh, this is the part where she's gonna sell me or try to change my mind, or it's gonna be like going to a used car lot.
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:57.200
And what I'm really looking for in the consult is a few really simple things.
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:07.119
First of all, I want to make sure that this person is actually someone that coaching and coaching with me is gonna help.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:09.599
And also I'm looking a bit for fit.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:16.640
I'm like, is this a person that seems to like appreciate my style, enjoy talking to me?
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:21.680
And really, like the sales thing is the furthest thing from my mind.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:28.720
I'm just kind of thinking about like, is this going to be a person that I can help, that I can get results for?
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:35.839
And I'm usually really honest and upfront about that, if for some reason I think that that's that's not gonna be the case.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:45.440
And I really one of the big things that I will occasionally do on these consoles is suggest therapy first.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:50.079
That therapy might be the place to start, the way to go.
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:59.759
And definitely, whenever you have resolved X, Y, or Z or feel like you are ready to A, B, and C, definitely.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.559
Think about coaching, but maybe therapy first.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.480
That's pretty common on the consult.
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:14.720
So definitely if if the person you're thinking about working with, therapists will sometimes do this too, but definitely coaches, definitely take advantage of that free call.
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:26.400
Definitely go in, ask all your questions, really get a feel for how this person and you would work together and what that would be like before you make your decision.
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:29.519
I think that that's a really smart thing to do.
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:42.640
Another question that comes up is, especially with coaches, since that industry is unregulated, how can one do due diligence before hiring or investing?
00:22:43.119 --> 00:23:00.960
So, what due diligence means, and if you're hiring a therapist, it's usually possible to look up that therapist in your state's database, make sure they've not been disciplined, make sure they're licensed, and that their credentials are all in order.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:11.119
And that doesn't necessarily mean that clinically they're going to be an awesome match, but definitely it's it's it gives you some reassurance, right?
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.880
That you're hiring someone that's qualified to do the job.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:23.680
And with coaches, you could also do that if they voluntarily engage in a credentialing program.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:30.559
If they're ICF certified, for example, you could look them up in ICF's database, but a lot of coaches won't be.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:36.319
That's that's I would say the minority of coaches actually get those voluntary credentials.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.960
And some very good coaches just don't bother with those because they don't need to.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:48.480
So, how do you do your due diligence and find out if a coach is a good investment?
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.480
And I think a couple of things.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:24:02.720
Um you could ask for references, however, most coaches don't actually give those, and most therapists don't actually give those.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:13.359
I know that I personally don't, not because I'm trying to hide something, but because the giving of the references actually breaks confidentiality.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:21.680
And I could ask my clients to like voluntarily do that, but I feel like that's just not something I want to ask them to do.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:28.799
I I don't feel like that's the most the best thing for them in that situation, even though it would be good for me.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.920
So I I generally do not give references.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:35.359
I would say that that's gonna be true of a lot of coaches.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:45.359
So how do you really get a feel for a coach or a therapist if you're hiring one that is independent before you invest?
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:57.119
And I would say the best way, the way that I tend to do this, the way I'm doing it right now, consume a lot of that person's free marketing materials and content.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:05.359
So things like podcasts, blogs, some people will do actual webinars where they're teaching on a topic.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.440
Often that will be for free.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.680
Um, looking at their social media, joining their email list.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:19.920
Email tends to be pretty intimate where they share some of their more personal stuff, um, some of their best tips.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.720
So definitely you could join their email list.
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.519
Most most practitioners will have one.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:38.880
And just use these free sources to really get a feel for their style, what kind of clients they work with, what kind of problems they are really good at solving, and see if you get value.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:49.920
If the person's going to be a good person for you, you should actually get small shifts in your thinking, in your behavior, just from their content.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.119
They should be able to give you some value ahead of time.
00:25:53.279 --> 00:26:06.720
And if you are actually feeling like they're helping you, even without you hiring them and hearing your problem personally from you, I think that's a really good sign that it's going to be a good match.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:16.720
I have personally hired most of my coaches, either from my network, they were people I knew, or from their podcasts.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:23.599
I hired one of my, I was she, she might have even been before the hypnocoach.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:24.880
I think this is true.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:30.319
Before the hypnocoach, that was really helpful to me that I just talked about a minute ago.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:38.640
I was in a group coaching program, and it was specifically Brooke Castillo's self-coaching scholars program.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:42.319
And unfortunately, this program is not around anymore.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:49.920
It was basically a membership model, and you could go and study with Brooke on a different topic every month.
00:26:50.079 --> 00:27:01.119
She would go in depth, and you also had group coaching calls, sometimes with Brooke or with other coaches that she had hired, and you also got one-to-one coaching.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:12.400
They were 20-minute sessions, I think, and it was usually not with Brooke, but with um someone that she hired and had trained personally, and they were all like really good coaches.
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:21.359
So I know I found that one through Brooke's podcast, and I feel like that was just an amazing experience for me.
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:33.279
I feel like the person that I was before self-coaching scholars, and I was in it for a year, and the person I was afterwards were just completely different people.
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.079
Like it was such an inflection point in my life.
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:45.200
I was just at the end of it thinking about life and problems and myself and my capabilities and my capacity so differently.
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:53.759
And that was just from a group, not even one-to-one, um a group general life coaching program.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:59.200
Like it wasn't even specifically niched on any particular topic.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.720
It was just like, let's make your life better.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.200
So I found that through Brooke's podcast.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.160
Like, Brooke is someone I 100% like found.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:13.519
I think she's another podcaster that I like mentioned, really liking her podcast.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:21.599
And then I kind of from her podcast, like it was changing my mindset so much and the way that I thought about things.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.279
I was like, I really have to get the paid stuff.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.319
I have to work with her and just see what this can do for me.
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.559
And it was truly life-changing.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.640
So that was really cool.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:39.440
Um, yeah, so podcasts, great, um, great place to look.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.160
Um, but so many other place to places too.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:43.759
There's still coaches that have blogs.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:47.200
There's still almost all coaches do some social media.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:53.359
So just kind of see what your person is doing a lot of that you're interested in and really try to get a feel.
00:28:53.680 --> 00:29:12.240
Um, I would a final thing that I'll offer to you, and this might be more at the consult stage when you're actually on the phone talking to them about working together, is if you want to one one other way that you can do due diligence is just by checking the terms and conditions of working with them.
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:21.200
I think it is so important and so like smart to invest smartly.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.519
And that means just understanding exactly what you're investing in.
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:35.279
So, questions, for example, that you can ask is what happens if I'm not satisfied one month into this six-month coaching package?
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.400
And what are your refund policies?
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:43.519
What if I feel that I have gotten my result early?
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:45.039
What happens?
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:55.200
And generally, coaches will be pretty happy to tell you, most coaches that have been practicing for any amount of time will have answers to these questions.
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:56.799
They'll have policies.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.799
And the policy might be that, you know, once you pay, you pay.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:02.079
There's no refunds.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:08.079
I find that this is, you know, the thing that helps people get over the finish line.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.920
When they know there's no going back, it helps them be invested.
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:22.240
Um then, um, so that's that's the reason that a lot of coaches will have a no refund policy once you've once you've purchased your package.
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:23.279
You're in.
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.160
Um, I personally am a bit more flexible.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:36.160
My my my refund policy is I generally do not want to be holding someone hostage in the coaching.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:52.480
So if one month in they're just feeling like it's not a good match, if they are making a good faith effort to um implement what were the coaching and they're coming to sessions, they're listening, they're prepared, they're bringing questions.
00:30:52.640 --> 00:31:00.880
And if it's just still not working for them, I always am pretty happy to cut them loose, to refund unused sessions.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.759
I do, I don't generally allow people to ghost.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:25.920
Like you don't get to, I feel like this does not serve people to allow you as a client to just like disappear and then like four months later, like ask for your money back and not really have a conversation about like because even if it's not working for you, there's probably something useful to learn there.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:34.640
So it really serves you to be able to come to your coach and be like, hey, this is what I'm seeing, this is what I'm experiencing.
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.799
Um, and then we can have a talk about if there's a way to make it work for you.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:48.640
And even if not, even if you're gonna leave, like what might be helpful in the future, like when you're investing in your next coach, what what might you want to bear in mind?
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.920
So I always require a conversation and open communication.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:32:05.039
Like, I don't give money back to people that ghosted, but um, generally I'm very happy to give money back to people for whom it's just genuinely not a good fit.
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:14.960
And to be honest, that has been in the years I've been doing this, just I can probably count the people on one hand, and that is I I'm super happy to do it.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:34.400
I feel like I feel like in relationships, like I said, where the connection between the people is so crucial that I want you to be with someone that you really connect with and and can spend sufficient time to actually change what you want to change.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:38.559
So I'm always like happy and open to that discussion.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.440
So, friends, I hope that's super helpful.
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:53.200
If you do have any questions about hiring a coach, about consults, about um the differences, anything we've discussed, differences between coaching and therapy.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:59.680
Um, if your particular issue, is it a therapy issue, is it a coaching issue, reach out anytime.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:07.119
Um, you can contact me on social media, you can contact me by my email, which I'll put in the show notes.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:14.559
And you could also, if you're feeling like you're really ready for a deeper discussion, schedule a consult with me.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:24.319
We can really talk about what um you are wanting to change, what you are wanting to work on, and specifically is this a coaching issue, is this a therapy issue?
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:30.240
If coaching, if I was gonna work with you as a coach, like how specifically would I do that?
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:31.519
What would that look like?
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:38.480
So definitely reach out anytime if you have questions, and I will see you here next week.
