Cleaner Conversations: Well, welcome to cleaner conversations. This is a podcast that has been designed specifically for dry cleaners for laundromat owners. And we break this on into three ways. One, we want to educate. We want to do our very best to make sure we bring some of the top voices, the top minds in the industry to educate dry cleaners across the world. Number two is that we love to equip. We want to make sure that there are certain problems that need to be solved, certain questions that people have. and they're not exactly sure maybe where to get some of those answered. We want to bring those voices on and make sure that we're equipping And lastly, ⁓ we love to right? There's so many good stories, success stories, stories of people that hit rock bottom, but they came back out or just ⁓ funny stories of things that experienced while they've been operating ⁓ in this space. So. We're very excited to have our guest on with us. My name is Justin Kane. I'm the host of Cleaner Conversations along with my co-host Sam Taylor. And we just want to say thank you for being a part of this community for listening for passing this along to other people who may be interested to hear it. So I'm going to turn it over to Sam. He's going to introduce our guest for today and we're going to jump right into things. Yeah. Yeah. Today we're joined by Dave from Wichita Kansas. He's the owner of In the Bag Cleaners. part of the Maverick Dry Cleaners group that he created a group of top operators in the industry coming together to share ideas, strategies, real world things that are actually moving the needle. It's one of my favorite groups. And so you have done a really good job on creating all of that. Dave, we also heard before the show that you may have some goldfish in your life. Do you have new pet? Can we start with the hard hitting questions?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, yeah, we sure can. a month ago, maybe a month and a half ago, in-laws who recently moved here, they were in Philadelphia, which is a great distance for in-laws ⁓ from ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: a good healthy distance.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, good healthy. No, actually, actually, I love my in-laws. Like I love them as much as my family on some days, maybe a little more. I'll tell you what, they're, fantastic, but they, kind of do the occasional things that, just, just only in, ⁓ only things grandparents would do. So they went to the pet store, three goldfish, this little five gallon tank. And, you know, and, and a little ⁓ filter and things like that.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: And somehow now we've got them at our house. We've been told that they're growing so fast. We need to have a 75 gallon tank because they produce so much shit. I didn't know that about goldfish and I didn't know they'd get so big. So anyhow, yeah, now we got three goldfish. My wife wants to take them out to the lake and dump them in there. I know that they'll die as soon as we do that and I just can't bring myself to it.
Cleaner Conversations: They will die as soon as you do that. I can't wait for a year later when we're doing another podcast with you and you're like, Hey, we have a koi pond and this pond goes around our house and the fish cost me like $15,000 per fish. Absolutely. Well, we have a number of questions that we want to walk you through. Some of them, I think, kind of dig deep into some of your story.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, we built a lazy river for him. Yeah, that's great.
Cleaner Conversations: And so I appreciate not only you agreeing to do this, but also the transparency. I do know just to start things off that you kind of got into this industry when you were younger of age, that you were behind a counter from what I understood. You were doing your best to pay for college textbooks at that time. So maybe you could take us back to what it was like to be that younger man in this industry. one, Did you kind of grow to love it then, or did you kind of despise it and then somehow circle back?
Dave Coyle: the above. No I actually take it back ⁓ I think what you're referring to was when I was out of Arizona State but-
Cleaner Conversations: Okay, there you go. Yeah.
Dave Coyle: I actually went to school at a little small school near Indianapolis called DePaul with a W at the end. And 2000 people there, 97 % Greek. And so that was actually my first taste, believe it or not, of the laundry and dry cleaning business. There were no local jobs in this small town. But I had joined this fraternity, really preppy. All the guys would wear polo shirts and not like polo golf shirts.
Cleaner Conversations: Okay.
Dave Coyle: like polo shirts and long sleeve so ⁓ day ⁓ the chapter meeting, they were held every Sunday, I said, if go get everyone a bag from a local dry cleaner and ⁓ go and take everyone's clothes each week and then... ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: bring it back a couple days later, would there be anyone interested in doing that? ⁓ everyone raised their hand. ⁓ so I ended up with my first 70 customers, basically. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: And that was the moment Dave Coyle was born, right? Wow.
Dave Coyle: was Yeah, well, yeah, it was actually right after I created this sink there that actually dispensed beer. You couldn't have kegs back then. It was like, you know, I don't think you can now either. But so I ended up creating this, put the kegs in the chapter room where they're not allowed to go. Like, like even police officers have to have a reason to go in these locked rooms. And so I created, I put these kegs in there and then piped it to the sink. And, and, you know, and until guys got really hammered and then they started showing girls how to sink dispensed beer. It worked great. And then it kind of blew up on us. So, but anyhow, so yeah, that was the first thing. And all I did was as, I marked up the prices 10 % and I got ⁓ dry cleaner in town of which there were two. I one of them to give me a 10 % discount. So there was a 20 % spread. Everyone brought their bag. ⁓ I delivered it next day to
Cleaner Conversations: It worked great. What was that?
Dave Coyle: the dry cleaner brought it back and yeah and then it was worked out really great. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: That's awesome story. So that was the beginning. What I love about what you just said too, of the cool signs of an entrepreneur is that he's able to see the pieces could come together, right? And he's able to, you have to figure out that win, win, win. And that's kind of what you did there, which is kind of cool to hear. Cause I've heard it so many times from other entrepreneurs are like, man, if I got this guy on board and this over here and this, ⁓ then could bring it together, but it ultimately benefits the vision that you have.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, no, for sure. And that was great, you know, and that was kind of the first taste of it. So I did that for basically three, no, two years. And then I wasn't ready to graduate yet. I don't feel like I had any kind of real life experience and I was a little scared. So somehow I ended up transferring to Arizona State, you know, which in the summertime is... you know really hot. was 122 degrees the last summer I was there. I was working a counter at a dry cleaner for about I think five bucks five and a quarter an hour. there were these two Indian brothers. They came over from India with their families and they're running small dry cleaner in Ahwatukee just outside of Phoenix. And you know it crazy there because every day they would make this ⁓ lunch ⁓ and it had curry and all stuff and they'd clear out all the tables in the middle of the floor. You know and the place would smell And yeah I was the
Cleaner Conversations: ⁓ horrible.
Dave Coyle: I was a token kid up on the counter who was allowed to serve clients. wasn't allowed to handle any money. Grandma sat over in the corner with the manual cash register for cashing out. And then they cleared this out and like it smelled terrible, you know, for me. And I never ate any of the food or anything like that, but it really smelled bad. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: You
Dave Coyle: this place was so busy. And I'm like, you know, if they can get this many clients to come in here with this kind of customer service and this place smelling like shit, you know, I mean, I'm like, I can blow this up. You know, I got to run with this.
Cleaner Conversations: Wow. Yep. You saw the opportunity for sure. That's crazy.
Dave Coyle: So that was the second part of the vision, yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: That's awesome. So from Ahwatukee, am I saying that right Dave?
Dave Coyle: Hmm, I think that's pretty close, yeah. As close as I got it, yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: Close enough. So from world famous Ahwatukee, dry cleaners over to In The Bag Cleaners, which is now ⁓ of the most dominant independent cleaners in the Midwest. sounded you had obviously structure early on of how you're going to systematically grow this business. But can you walk us through what did the growth actually look like for you?
Dave Coyle: Well, so I once saw this picture and it said life of an entrepreneur basically ⁓ were like 12 squares, 12 on it and it said something like, shit, oh shit, oh shit, hell yeah, shit, shit, ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: You
Dave Coyle: Pretty much that's the life of an entrepreneur, right? Like, you know, it's absolute crisis and then we get a win. ⁓ almost like playing, I ⁓ do a lot of them, but it's like playing a scramble in a golf tournament, right? Like you only have to get a couple wins ⁓ you'll keep being invited back.
Cleaner Conversations: Sure is. Yep. Yep.
Dave Coyle: to the tournament. So, but for me, ⁓ there's been so many crazy things that happened right out of the gates. Like within three weeks of opening my first dry cleaner, ⁓ spent kind of four or five years learning the business from other people, ⁓ companies. And I finally took the plunge, it was crazy. I had a eviction notice on my door ⁓ for my duplex four straight months. I was coming with all kinds of excuses. to tell the landlord and one time ⁓ it was cold it was ⁓ I believe was Christmas Eve and like nothing open we sat right in my first door set right in front of a Walmart even Walmart was closed and What ended up happening was so cold, the pipes in the boiler room froze. I started getting this alarm code from the boiler and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, this is awful. What am I going to do? Cause I knew that, ⁓ know, probably with the freezing pipes, they're going to expand and then when they thaw out, you know, there's going to be water everywhere. And remember sitting behind that back door, you know, Christmas Eve, ⁓ three weeks in like, what in the world did I do? I have no one to call. I can't go get a heater because Walmart's not even open, a space heater. You know, I had actually, the week before I'd fired the entire team except for one person. So, you know, was like, it was a disaster. But anyhow, and sure enough, that next morning things thawed and it flooded the entire store. But figured it out. Like didn't think I could do it, but.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. You're like, can't call them back.
Dave Coyle: push forward and ⁓ you're given no other choice but to make it work, you make it work.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep, I love that. I love the figuring it out process to you talked about this diagram of the journey of an entrepreneur and I think on the front end it looks like OK, hey, they're going through a lot of crap but man there figuring it out. But then there's that scary back end that you faced yourself which is how do you cope with a lot of those moments right like when you go through some of those tough times. A lot of them, maybe some people find themselves looking to a bottle, looking to external things, maybe potentially drugs. They're looking to something to kind of numb some of the pain that there may be going through. And I know that you've been very open about battle that you went through. Now this is while you're building, is that correct? And then two, what did it take? Like what? What did it take for you to kind of turn that page and realize, you know, this is not, this is not sustainable. And ultimately, if I don't adjust or fix this, everything's probably going down with it.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, no, that's a really great point. mean, you know, I've certainly had, well, let me put it this way. I mean, I've probably had just about every bad habit there is to have, I mean, short of, I don't think I've done any drugs where you have to like shoot it in through a needle. ⁓ But.
Cleaner Conversations: Okay. Okay. That's when you're like, okay, I shouldn't be showing up to work today.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, but you know, but yeah, I mean, I've shown up drunk. I was buying another dry cleaner at one point and I went and had that meeting after two Bloody Marys. You know, like there was a lot. Pretty much from age 25 to 40, I was a daily drinker, 15 years.
Cleaner Conversations: Wow. While you were building.
Dave Coyle: yeah, yeah, and know there were a lot of other things I mean I take full responsibility for it, but you know I was in a very dysfunctional marriage ⁓ I handle the stress of growing the company very I think there were a of lingering things that kind of unresolved trauma from the past ⁓ frankly trauma that ⁓ I would say that ⁓ was a recipient and probably that I created and things were intertwined
Cleaner Conversations: Wow.
Dave Coyle: interwined quite a bit. I realized was is that, like addiction is a solution.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Nope.
Dave Coyle: Right? It's not a good one. ⁓ It's a pretty bad one in most cases, but it a solution. ⁓ So of when you frame it that way, you you don't say, ⁓ wow, I'm the worst person in the world, but it's like, hey, if this solution isn't working for me, maybe it's time to try a different solution. For me, it was a point of very strong isolation. So I've learned, at least in my case, that opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's So it's why I'm so open about it. Yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: That's a great point, Dave. That's a wonderful point. Cause I, if you're not in a room, who's going to, do you have anybody in your life? You know, I'm not asking you this question, but the ⁓ listening, like, do you have anybody in your life that would go, Hey, I haven't seen you in a while. because if you're not part of those little tribes or communities, no one can check on you. And then you can isolate and find yourself stuck in some places. well, first of all, thank you for sharing that because I know that There's other people who have found solutions that probably they just long-term are not going to work. They're going to actually not serve them. you think about ⁓ back to your 25 year old self and running a business, and I'm going to kind of tap into that coaching brain of yours, the consulting brain, what would be the biggest shift in how you would change that 25 year old self's thinking? whether it's an operation, whether it's personal, whether it's business wise, where would you first begin with that 25 year old self?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, first of all and to kind of take it from what we just talked about, I think the true joys in life are the relationships that we have, ideally with the people we like to have them with, right? And those need to be built on some level of transparency. I've always had this thought, or at least since the last 13 years since I've been sober, you know, that you're as sick as your secrets.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah.
Dave Coyle: And, you know, and I used to be very sick, and I used to have a lot of secrets and that's what fueled the isolation. So if I could sum it up in a couple ways here, and what I would tell myself back then is that, you need to shift the mindset from what's in it for me to what's in it for you. like the reason I think I was so isolated is because I was just a taker, right?
Cleaner Conversations: That's a great statement.
Dave Coyle: Like I felt shame for what I was doing, but that kind of created a situation where I was just trying to, I was in survival mode and I was just trying to figure out kind of what's in it for me. Now you can't create relationships, whether it's with clients, team members, spouse, partner, anything, if all you're doing is thinking about yourself, right? ⁓ now what I try to do, and this is a major shift that's happened over decades,
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: I think what's in it for you. On this podcast for example, I'll try to share things ⁓ are important for other people. Maybe not that important for me, but I'm thinking what's in it for you. Yeah, does that make sense? ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Absolutely. Oh, that much sense because then that begins to then pour out and what you're contributing rather than what you're consuming because ultimately that whole analogy of a lake is very different than something that is flowing, that is moving, that is pouring into something else. So yeah, I really appreciate that insight and I think that would be a great lesson for any 25 year old. person or operator to learn is, I'm in this for the clients and I will be benefited as a result. But first I'm thinking what's in it for them. So yeah, great answer.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, the success that you have is created by the value that you create for other people.
Cleaner Conversations: Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of good phrases that are going to come out of this podcast for sure. Yeah. And it, it speaks to when we go to these, being a part of a group that wants to give rather than constantly take is pretty noticeable. is the byproduct of you understanding the community's important to you or yourself, improving your personal life, but also your business was Maverick dry cleaners, a byproduct of trying to create that community,
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I think it was. know, here's what I've noticed is, is that, most people try to make a business successful and they think that then they'll build their life on the success of the business. ⁓ And think it's really backwards. Like I'm a, I'm a big fan of first figuring out what you want to do in your life. And let's say, you know, obviously that changes over time. It's ⁓ a lot looking at the horizon. As you walk towards it, the view is going to change. You're going to reassess and look at a different So, the idea is that you first want to ideally create ⁓ a by design that then is fueled by a business by design. And when we created this community, ⁓ I that people needed help doing that, right? they needed skills. And I believe that all business skills, whether it's finance or marketing team development, leadership, I think all business skills are learnable. It's not like we were hardwired when we were born with skills or not. So I really feel like when it comes to leadership for example that you can only take other people as far as you've taken yourself. Otherwise you're telling them what to do not showing them what to do and most people it backwards and they try to build their life based on the business but you really want a business that helps you do what you want in life.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: And sometimes that feels selfish. Yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: I love that. Yeah, that's great. I love the connection though, right? I've heard someone say one time, man, map out your, family vacations or your family time at the beginning of the year, and then put everything, so right now, you know, how to build around that, and it just starts with the individual first taking care of that. Hopefully the business will actually experience the overflow. And Dave, a lot of people know you and I think Even myself might think Well Dave's already at where he wants to be you've gotten into so many different areas with what you do Do you ever feel like hey, I'm kind of at the top or no. I'm always pushing. There's always something
Dave Coyle: Yeah, that's a great question, one of my, ⁓ my original coaches, Dan Sullivan, who is up in Toronto, Canada, ⁓ he once told that, motivation for an entrepreneur is all about having a future that's greater than your past. And so I think for us to stay motivated, we always have to have a future. And someone once asked me, you they said, hey, my dad just got cancer. how can he have a future that's greater than his past? And I said, ⁓ he might create more impact in how he handles his cancer diagnosis and have more impact on those around him than perhaps he's had in his entire life. But it just depends on how he handles it. So we can always have a future that's greater than our past. When I first started out, I would say that for probably the first decade, I just thought more is better. Right? But more is not always better. And that could be money, that could be, know, stores or team members or clients. Like we always sometimes think of sales as like, ⁓ that's better. That's why he's at the top of the industry because of sales he's got. ⁓ more is not better. Better is better.
Cleaner Conversations: in the world. Yep.
Dave Coyle: You know, and you don't know what's better unless you create that personal vision, is, is important and really defines what's important you.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, really well said. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Dave. Now, ⁓ you first started scaling in the bag, what some of those ⁓ operational We're going to of shift a little bit into a tactical side. What were some of those operational changes that ⁓ actually moved the for you?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I would say one of the big things was that I opened retail stores in six years. Okay, so the first six years in business started in 2000. and each time I grew a those first six stores were intentional. Like, let's fill out the map a little bit. Three stores on the east side of town, three on the west side of town. But... ⁓ Then what I quickly learned in 2000 was the time of, you when those YAHUs, you know, decided to fly the planes in the towers of 9-11, ⁓ I would actually have largest acquisition of 13 stores during the crisis of 2008. what I learned pretty early was, was that sometimes the best time to grow is ⁓ during times of uncertainty. you be certain, ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, great point.
Dave Coyle: when other people are uncertain, it's one of, it's one of the best ways. People are sitting on the sidelines waiting for things to pass ⁓ and go hit the accelerator. So I say six stores in six years ⁓ for me, one store year, ⁓ was what gave me the confidence ⁓ to then and then ⁓ about seven in, buy those 13 stores, which I got at a fire sale. Like I bought them for $200,000, you know, and they were doing $2 million in sales, but it ended up being 12 months of an absolute nightmare. Fired everyone but three people, you know, from those had to close a lot of stores. They were on a computer system that like was older than DOS, you know. So anyhow, was a lot of hard work, but...
Cleaner Conversations: Hmm. Yeah.
Dave Coyle: Opening those stores and not just kind of like being like, okay, we've got two things are cool You know, we hit I hit it hard for a while
Cleaner Conversations: And I love that you said that once you purchased them. There's a 12 hellish months, right? Like everybody sees the number. They see the revenue on paper, but they don't know some of the hell that you have to go through to maintain it, to grow it, to get past that what Seth Godin calls the dip when you're just either ready to quit or you move on. So you walk into the average dry cleaner. And I know that there's a number of questions you would already be asking or thinking of asking, where do you gravitate to like the one thing that you tend to feel like a dry cleaner should be focused on or fixing? what's that one metric or metrics that owners that probably have not been in the space of having conversations like this ⁓ that not paying enough attention to?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, so I would say I could learn success if I looked at their calendar. ⁓ So the number one metric is how hours a business owner works in their business daily ops. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Okay. in real like real hours, not just like, yeah, I think I worked this. No, no, no. Like real hours when you're going home, doing emails. Yep.
Dave Coyle: Right. Like getting the stuff done. Like how many hours do they work? Because here's the thing, someone can either ⁓ focus on simplifying daily operations, and ⁓ we all a tendency to do that, or they can focus on accelerating growth. Now, most people are not good. People try to do it where they can do both, but it's kind of like pressing the brake in a car hitting the gas at the same time. ⁓ Like you spin out, right? and you can get very overwhelmed. It can seem productive because you're doing a lot, ⁓ but The biggest thing I would say is that people have to get out of daily operations they want to grow and scale their business.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, great, great answer. really like that. ⁓ you've coached lot operators through the Maverick Group, ⁓ one-on-one, what's one of the common ⁓ financial mistakes that you see consistently a dry cleaner owner?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I mean this business is pretty simple. I mean it's simple. but not easy. And what's simple about it is, is that you have to be able to create sales ⁓ at or on demand. And you to be able to ⁓ control payroll, is the largest expense. So I would say the biggest thing that people struggle with, but it's also the biggest opportunity, ⁓ is to be to control production payroll creep, what I'll call, which is that it's slowly creeping up. ⁓ through inefficiency or for paying people more for them doing the same amount of value. someone who's been with you for 10 years but every year they get a raise even though they're not adding any more value. But a lot of business owners in our space are not very good at matching the amount of payroll they pay to the amount or labor to the amount of work that needs to be done. And you have to have a system for that. You have to have to. look, we'd love to think of our team members as our family, okay? But ⁓ have their own interests at mind. And I love every single one of our team members very, very much. But they have their family, we have our family, you know, our do have to be managed. And oftentimes let that creep and slide, ⁓ and ⁓ they're way too much in payroll compared to the work that needs to be done.
Cleaner Conversations: is there a percentage that you work from or that you encourage payroll to be at? Is it like a?
Dave Coyle: Well, it depends a little bit on how the business is set up, right? Like we have people in our group who, have a bunch of different plants, packaged plants. Typically they're called, other people have a hub and spoke model like what we've got one central production, with a lot of stores and routes that feed into it. So it depends a little bit, but, payroll overall should be 40, 43 % of sales, but the whole magic of the
Cleaner Conversations: Okay.
Dave Coyle: game is to create the business is to create the most amount of cash flow from least amount of assets or overhead. So we to pour a ton of sales through the assets that got ideally so that we can hit marginal profit earlier in the month ⁓ getting a lot profit from those additional amounts of sales.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Love it. So with those tactics, you build a seven figure EBITDA business in an industry where margins are usually very tight. When you look at the Maverick group, how many of them are coming from any structure? Is that a low percentage?
Dave Coyle: Well, most people show up because of some level of pain, right? Like, people have a tendency to want to solve pain before they go after gain. ⁓ most people show and finally admit that maybe they could use some help, some assistance, some coaching getting rid of some of that pain. So we go to work on that pretty quickly. ⁓ ⁓ the thing, you know, ⁓ a difference between what make and what you keep. So sales, ⁓ which people judge themselves on, is only a reflection ⁓ of one, your pricing model, and number two, the value you create for the clients that have. Okay and most people look at that and say ⁓ my up or down from last year what are my pieces what are my sales you know but profit or the EBITDA line as an example is more a result of
Cleaner Conversations: Correct.
Dave Coyle: your management of the efficiency of your operation. So yes, quality is important, but so is quantity. And for probably the first decade, I only judged myself on sales and then I'm like, ⁓ I'm making a lot of sales, but I'm not keeping a lot. There's a ton of leaky holes in the bucket. So we really like to focus right out of the gates on helping people how to plug those holes so that when they add more sales in, more of that then is money that they can keep.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, love it. Dave, you've had a couple talks recently on pickup and delivery. I you had a webinar the other day. How should owners be thinking about pickup and delivery in 2026?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, so, you know, there's a lot of things that we do either defensively or just as like a little side hustle. So someone might offer alterations as an example and they that so that maybe they outsource it to someone else but ⁓ it's a little extra service but it's kind of a defensive move ⁓ to make that that client doesn't go down the street to someone who has alterations on site, can do it faster but then they take all their business over there right? Well I learned early on that not many points Kind of like football, not many points are scored on defense. They're almost all scored on offense. So I think someone has to decide whether it's pick up and delivery. other key services like some people say let me dip my toe in the water with wash and fold or comforters or alterations or shoe repairs or whatever and I'm not a big fan of dipping the toe in the water like I think you should walk all the way through the door and make it a main pillar of how you do business. Now the reason why I think I'm so excited about pick up and delivery and we're growing ours at in the bag faster than we ever have before is ⁓ we are focusing on essentially 15 dream neighborhoods in our town of 400,000 people. Now only, those are only about nine, ten thousand homes. But, you can create a five, ten million dollar business based on ten thousand homes if you those deeply. ⁓ So the for me is that when we focus on neighborhoods, we want to have retail stores that are convenient to those, convenient to where those people particularly grocery shop. But we also then ⁓ want to be to lock them into a very loyal giving relationship ⁓ with pick up delivery to those 15 dream neighborhoods. So it really kind of fits in and people, for us, not even about locking in the loyalty or, you know, we're taking a more active role in the relationship or sales go up for those people. ⁓ really just the best way to serve those clients. We give them a 24 inch rolling rack, put it in their garage. ⁓ people have their garage codes, so we're not shoving a bunch of clothes on ⁓ a doorknob or between the on a wreath hook, you know, we like put it in their garage, nice for them, do their laundry. So we're focusing on less people but trying to do more for them.
Cleaner Conversations: I love that hyper focusing Yeah. And one of the themes that I'm catching throughout this entire podcast is just a mindset shift. Right. And one of the things I believe I've heard you say to some degree to the people in room is you need to stop thinking like a technician. ⁓ Although it's important to every nuance of what you do. But to start thinking more like a CEO ⁓ or a leader. What that shift? ⁓ when it comes from thinking less like a technician to more like a CEO.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I think it's a couple things. That's a really good question. You know, it all has to do with time perspective. So, here's the thing. When someone is making an hourly wage and they're a technician and they're pressing clothes or they're unloading a dry cleaning machine, they're trading money that they're receiving from the company and they're thinking of results that they'll get in time and effort, which means that if I want to make more money, I've got to either work more hours, more time, or I've got to work harder, put in more effort. Well, know, entrepreneurs who go from being a technician to ideally a manager to more of a CEO or a business owner and then an investor, what they do differently is they focus on leverage. And to focus on leverage, what you're doing is you're actually working in different economy. You're not in time and effort economy, you're focused more on results economy. economy, which is basically, look, I'm going to put three things, and I do this to this day, I put three things that I'm going to do in a given day. And it's kind of it's known kind of as like a signal theory that ⁓ three things that I put on my list, that's the signal and everything else is just noise. Do I do some of the noise? Do I do some of the checklist items? Sure. ⁓ what I really do is focus on those three things. So I'm a big fan of defining your value. creating a three-year vision, putting together a 90-day blueprint, and then really doing three daily things that focus on the daily signal that is things that are motivating, meaningful, and multiply over time instead of focusing on the distraction and the noise that's all around us.
Cleaner Conversations: I love that because Seth Godin talks about this lizard brain that wants to do the things that don't add much value, but it's like, I can just get it done. can tweak that text a little bit more. I can touch that email a little bit more. And you're like, ⁓ but that's the role that you're here to play. There's some bigger value things that you need to focus on. So those top three have to be guarded. They have to be protected. And when they're done, you're the one that was supposed to do them. nobody else could have. So yeah, I love that answer, Dave. It's a miracle how much you can actually get done when you focus on a couple things rather than a hundred different things. Dave, to ⁓ go off the clock a little bit for our, for our official off the clock segment. ⁓ Whatever means. ⁓ what's the funniest or most chaotic thing. probably a lot. So maybe we need to give you some time on this one. but the most chaotic or funniest thing that's ever happened to you at one of your stores.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, you know, 25 years in the business, all kinds of stuff's happened, right? know, some of it's... Not funny at the time, but it's funny later. stores have been robbed. You know, we've had fires. We've had a tornado hit a store. we've had domestic disputes, like crazy stuff that you're like, ⁓ I have no idea why husband down to our production facility and got in a fight with his wife, pressing clothes ⁓ but probably one of the craziest for me was it was when I first started out and I was working for Jim in
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. Hahaha
Dave Coyle: Kansas City, Missouri at Pride Cleaners. And so I didn't have my own company yet, but still this was super crazy. And they put me as part of this manager training program. I was making like 16,000 bucks a year. And put me over at this store, like in the hood. I mean, was, there were bars on the window. There was a pawn shop right out in front of the store. ⁓ it really bad. It was over on the Missouri side of Kansas City in a not area. I didn't even know why there was a dry cleaner there. But anyhow, it was busy. we did good. And ⁓ this shop owner was a regular client and he just came back from Vegas. And so we brought in his tuxedo after coming back from Vegas. And there were three things ⁓ in his pockets. And probably like most humorous things are things that we found in people's pockets. I mean, we recently had a loaded gun in someone's, you know, in someone's
Cleaner Conversations: Woo!
Dave Coyle: laundry and you know and but you know we've returned like you know thong underwear in a guy's ⁓ pair of pants pocket that ended up being his wife's size ⁓ so that created kinds of problems but this one was ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: How could you? How could you ruin their marriage like that?
Dave Coyle: We don't do it anymore like now when we get that situation we like throw in the trash because I'm not gonna be blamed for anyone's divorce, But but this guy ended up coming back from Vegas. He had $6,000 of cash in his in his tuxedo top He had a bag of cocaine in there and, ⁓ then a knife something. Look, it was crazy. I'm like, what in the world is going on here? So I'm like, what are we supposed to do with this stuff? It was the first time that I'd found drugs in, in someone's pocket. And I've since, we've since found a lot. ⁓ And so I'm like, okay, I'm just going to throw this the trash. Well. The pressers that we had there at the time, I think were straight out of work release or something like that because when I threw that in the trash in the bathroom, and I went about finished the day, I ended up actually walking the $6,000 in ⁓ cash over to the guy and he loved it. ⁓ He ask where his drugs were, but I came back later and I went to the bathroom and I looked over in that trash can and God forbid drugs are gone.
Cleaner Conversations: You They're gone. They're gone. The bathroom was sparkling.
Dave Coyle: They're gone. obviously, no one came in or anything like that. It was just the two or three people pressing. So someone got themselves a big old bag of coke.
Cleaner Conversations: I love it. That's a great story. got like 48 hours of work at one of those guys. This guy is off the chart today. I just thought of the movie Elf when he was completely drunk and hammered. All right. you've seen this industry from every angle, You talk to cleaners all the time.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, yeah things were moving fast that afternoon real fast
Cleaner Conversations: Where do you think the dry cleaning industry goes from here? I know a little heavier than our last question, but. Yeah, are you excited about it? Are you fearful about it? would you say?
Dave Coyle: I personally am very excited about it. Now, I'm gonna keep it real here and this isn't gonna make everyone happy, but 80 % of dry cleaners suck. Okay, so you know, here's the deal. ⁓ know, 80 %...
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Okay, yep.
Dave Coyle: of anyone in any industry are in total survival mode. Like they're just keeping their head above water. As crazy as it seems, 80 % of people in our community are in at least financial survival mode. So the challenge really is that in almost any industry, It is what you make of it. are you going to accelerate and be in the top 20%, the top 15%, the top 5 % of the industry? Well, if you are, then it is going to be really, really good to you. Now, I'm a huge fan of multiple lines of revenue, right? So like, I don't think there should be just one. I mean, just like coaching and consulting for me is another significant line of revenue. Investments can be a sign of revenue. Some people flip homes, whatever, right? You know, so So, I'm not just like all in. However, I think... given the right coaching, given the right tools, given the right mindset, you can be very, very successful in this industry. You can't do it like people did 15, 20 years ago when everyone wore a suit to work. Like Comforters, for example, is our way to kind of buck the trend of decreasing peace counts and profit. But it is a way to like literally hockey stick up your EBITDA line. So I'm excited. about certain parts and I've just got to focus on those things it's still an awesome opportunity and I hate to say it because 80 % of dry cleaners are not that great you have to be that different ⁓ to really stand out and take market share.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. Yeah, well first of all, I like the fact that you're excited about it. Cohen and I were just in Cleveland this past week and were talking to an ⁓ owner that's and his wife, they've been in the industry for almost 50 years I'm like, are you guys excited? And she goes, well, not about the peace count. Like back then it used to be amazing, know, those things used to flood in. But ⁓ I do like this creative ways of of overcoming some of those challenges from an industry that was one way and it certainly evolved over time and if you can adapt and be flexible with the evolution, I think you can do well. I have one more question. Do you have anything before I ask?
Dave Coyle: Yep. And by the way, if you're excited in Cleveland, I mean, that means that's a big, and I'm from Cleveland.
Cleaner Conversations: I know, right? ⁓ I don't even know that the people in Cleveland we know are excited about Cleveland. They are excited. They're very excited. About Cleveland, the city. ⁓ Very, very nice.
Dave Coyle: Cleveland gets a bad rap. My mom, actually we're going to visit my mom there in a couple weeks and that's where I was born and raised. But, know, in all kidding aside though, here's the thing. know, Earl Nightingale, one of my favorite quotes is, is that the opposite of courage is not cowardice, conformity. So the idea is you can't try to be like everyone else. The goal, if you're going to be successful, is not to try to be better. ⁓ it's to try to be different. That's what people talk about. That's what makes you stand out, is how to be different. And sometimes we have to take things from other industries, that are our wow experiences, and then put them into ours. But we can't look from within our industry necessarily to look for all the answers.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, really well said. Well, first of all, just want to say this, this time with you has been very, very good. And I'm sure people listening to this. have got a tremendous amount of nuggets that they can just take apply and work into their life. I have one final question. We normally do this with our guests just to kind of speak to the person that is listening. They're grinding. They want to be successful and honestly, maybe they're one of the 80 % right where they just they suck as a leader or they suck as a dry cleaner, but that can always change right? You said skills are something that you can learn. So what is your encouragement for the person that
Dave Coyle: That's right.
Cleaner Conversations: is just having doubts, can they succeed, and for the one that actually sucks, that they can actually change things up.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, and... You know, and I don't use the word suck easily because that's kind of a harsh word. It's like calling someone lazy, and doesn't often times show much hope, but I will say, there's a tremendous spark of hope. It's odd and, know, I, as a kid, I actually on two different occasions saw the police or fire. we would go up to this lake in Western New York and I've seen two bodies pulled out of the water there as a kid.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: after people had drowned you know I've had a lot of I've been around a lot of trauma I've seen a lot of that family friends everything else but here's what I know is is that don't drown by falling in the water like you drown by staying in the water Right? So if someone's part of that 80%, a lot of it actually has to do, and you're in survival mode, a lot of it actually has to do with who you hang out with. Now, the challenge is, is that sometimes the people closest to you are the ones who directly or indirectly say, you know, and keep you down, say you can't do it. Right? Like, and that's challenging. So you've got to have a group of people, you've got to have friends, you've got to have some people who are encouraging, who are saying you can do it, because it's easy to fall into treating yourself as a victim, blaming yourself or others, ⁓ but you to be the one that takes full responsibility for your life. Someone once told me, they said, ⁓ most people of it like everything happens to me. ⁓ bad things happen, I'm struggling, I figure this like all this stuff's happening to me. you want to shift your mindset to say everything in my life happens for me. it's literally like nutrients ⁓ that we learn from, grow from. But ⁓ I will you probably the number one most important thing is to be around people that encourage you, that excite you, that say you can do it. Like that is so important. ⁓ If you want to get out of that mode of ⁓ feeling you're stuck, feeling like you're in survival mode, ⁓ if you want to fly like eagle, ⁓ you can't be sitting down on pond with the ducks. ⁓ You've got to go find some that you can go fly with. does it. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: I love about that too. You're not always comfortable. You're gonna feel like, you gotta step up sometimes. You're gonna feel challenged. And then those people are honest with you sometimes of like, ⁓ There's some things that you just need to really face reality about step on that scale. So, it's been a great time with you. Thank you for, for investing into this community as much as you have. Yeah. Dave, can people find you? and a little bit about a maverick. ⁓
Dave Coyle: No, that's awesome. Yeah, can find us at maverickdrycleaners.com and maverick is the term that we use because go where everyone else doesn't go. So we are outliers some but we're the ones that really are ⁓ focused on doing the that other people don't do. We're different and that's exciting. But we do ⁓ help with
Cleaner Conversations: you
Dave Coyle: with marketing, being able to grow sales on demand, finance, ⁓ turning sales into profit, ⁓ team and leadership, and then course ⁓ personal development, growth of you as ⁓ an entrepreneur. So ⁓ it's really We get together quarterly and ⁓ it's been having you guys at some of our meetings too. And it's just an exciting place. People are ultra positive. ⁓ We love we do.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Yeah.
Dave Coyle: people we hang out with. yeah, probably Maverick Dry Cleaners is the best way to get a hold of me or my team. thanks so much, guys, for your time today. I really enjoyed getting to know both of you guys and Cohen and everything you guys do for the industry as well. Thanks so much.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. Yeah, well, thank you, Dave. Well, Sam, that is another episode on the books. so how can those listening or sharing it with others, where can they find us? Yeah. Thank you, Dave. you guys can find us wherever ⁓ you listen. So Apple, Spotify, and YouTube ⁓ should video recordings of all of those on all channels except for Apple. So go figure with Apple. But it's cleaner conversations. The links are on our Facebook and all our socials. So thank you guys for listening. And again, Dave, obviously, thank you. a day, everybody. Thanks, guys. Bye bye.
Dave Coyle: Awesome. Love you guys. See ya. Bye.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, yeah, we sure can. a month ago, maybe a month and a half ago, in-laws who recently moved here, they were in Philadelphia, which is a great distance for in-laws ⁓ from ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: a good healthy distance.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, good healthy. No, actually, actually, I love my in-laws. Like I love them as much as my family on some days, maybe a little more. I'll tell you what, they're, fantastic, but they, kind of do the occasional things that, just, just only in, ⁓ only things grandparents would do. So they went to the pet store, three goldfish, this little five gallon tank. And, you know, and, and a little ⁓ filter and things like that.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: And somehow now we've got them at our house. We've been told that they're growing so fast. We need to have a 75 gallon tank because they produce so much shit. I didn't know that about goldfish and I didn't know they'd get so big. So anyhow, yeah, now we got three goldfish. My wife wants to take them out to the lake and dump them in there. I know that they'll die as soon as we do that and I just can't bring myself to it.
Cleaner Conversations: They will die as soon as you do that. I can't wait for a year later when we're doing another podcast with you and you're like, Hey, we have a koi pond and this pond goes around our house and the fish cost me like $15,000 per fish. Absolutely. Well, we have a number of questions that we want to walk you through. Some of them, I think, kind of dig deep into some of your story.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, we built a lazy river for him. Yeah, that's great.
Cleaner Conversations: And so I appreciate not only you agreeing to do this, but also the transparency. I do know just to start things off that you kind of got into this industry when you were younger of age, that you were behind a counter from what I understood. You were doing your best to pay for college textbooks at that time. So maybe you could take us back to what it was like to be that younger man in this industry. one, Did you kind of grow to love it then, or did you kind of despise it and then somehow circle back?
Dave Coyle: the above. No I actually take it back ⁓ I think what you're referring to was when I was out of Arizona State but-
Cleaner Conversations: Okay, there you go. Yeah.
Dave Coyle: I actually went to school at a little small school near Indianapolis called DePaul with a W at the end. And 2000 people there, 97 % Greek. And so that was actually my first taste, believe it or not, of the laundry and dry cleaning business. There were no local jobs in this small town. But I had joined this fraternity, really preppy. All the guys would wear polo shirts and not like polo golf shirts.
Cleaner Conversations: Okay.
Dave Coyle: like polo shirts and long sleeve so ⁓ day ⁓ the chapter meeting, they were held every Sunday, I said, if go get everyone a bag from a local dry cleaner and ⁓ go and take everyone's clothes each week and then... ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: bring it back a couple days later, would there be anyone interested in doing that? ⁓ everyone raised their hand. ⁓ so I ended up with my first 70 customers, basically. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: And that was the moment Dave Coyle was born, right? Wow.
Dave Coyle: was Yeah, well, yeah, it was actually right after I created this sink there that actually dispensed beer. You couldn't have kegs back then. It was like, you know, I don't think you can now either. But so I ended up creating this, put the kegs in the chapter room where they're not allowed to go. Like, like even police officers have to have a reason to go in these locked rooms. And so I created, I put these kegs in there and then piped it to the sink. And, and, you know, and until guys got really hammered and then they started showing girls how to sink dispensed beer. It worked great. And then it kind of blew up on us. So, but anyhow, so yeah, that was the first thing. And all I did was as, I marked up the prices 10 % and I got ⁓ dry cleaner in town of which there were two. I one of them to give me a 10 % discount. So there was a 20 % spread. Everyone brought their bag. ⁓ I delivered it next day to
Cleaner Conversations: It worked great. What was that?
Dave Coyle: the dry cleaner brought it back and yeah and then it was worked out really great. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: That's awesome story. So that was the beginning. What I love about what you just said too, of the cool signs of an entrepreneur is that he's able to see the pieces could come together, right? And he's able to, you have to figure out that win, win, win. And that's kind of what you did there, which is kind of cool to hear. Cause I've heard it so many times from other entrepreneurs are like, man, if I got this guy on board and this over here and this, ⁓ then could bring it together, but it ultimately benefits the vision that you have.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, no, for sure. And that was great, you know, and that was kind of the first taste of it. So I did that for basically three, no, two years. And then I wasn't ready to graduate yet. I don't feel like I had any kind of real life experience and I was a little scared. So somehow I ended up transferring to Arizona State, you know, which in the summertime is... you know really hot. was 122 degrees the last summer I was there. I was working a counter at a dry cleaner for about I think five bucks five and a quarter an hour. there were these two Indian brothers. They came over from India with their families and they're running small dry cleaner in Ahwatukee just outside of Phoenix. And you know it crazy there because every day they would make this ⁓ lunch ⁓ and it had curry and all stuff and they'd clear out all the tables in the middle of the floor. You know and the place would smell And yeah I was the
Cleaner Conversations: ⁓ horrible.
Dave Coyle: I was a token kid up on the counter who was allowed to serve clients. wasn't allowed to handle any money. Grandma sat over in the corner with the manual cash register for cashing out. And then they cleared this out and like it smelled terrible, you know, for me. And I never ate any of the food or anything like that, but it really smelled bad. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: You
Dave Coyle: this place was so busy. And I'm like, you know, if they can get this many clients to come in here with this kind of customer service and this place smelling like shit, you know, I mean, I'm like, I can blow this up. You know, I got to run with this.
Cleaner Conversations: Wow. Yep. You saw the opportunity for sure. That's crazy.
Dave Coyle: So that was the second part of the vision, yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: That's awesome. So from Ahwatukee, am I saying that right Dave?
Dave Coyle: Hmm, I think that's pretty close, yeah. As close as I got it, yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: Close enough. So from world famous Ahwatukee, dry cleaners over to In The Bag Cleaners, which is now ⁓ of the most dominant independent cleaners in the Midwest. sounded you had obviously structure early on of how you're going to systematically grow this business. But can you walk us through what did the growth actually look like for you?
Dave Coyle: Well, so I once saw this picture and it said life of an entrepreneur basically ⁓ were like 12 squares, 12 on it and it said something like, shit, oh shit, oh shit, hell yeah, shit, shit, ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: You
Dave Coyle: Pretty much that's the life of an entrepreneur, right? Like, you know, it's absolute crisis and then we get a win. ⁓ almost like playing, I ⁓ do a lot of them, but it's like playing a scramble in a golf tournament, right? Like you only have to get a couple wins ⁓ you'll keep being invited back.
Cleaner Conversations: Sure is. Yep. Yep.
Dave Coyle: to the tournament. So, but for me, ⁓ there's been so many crazy things that happened right out of the gates. Like within three weeks of opening my first dry cleaner, ⁓ spent kind of four or five years learning the business from other people, ⁓ companies. And I finally took the plunge, it was crazy. I had a eviction notice on my door ⁓ for my duplex four straight months. I was coming with all kinds of excuses. to tell the landlord and one time ⁓ it was cold it was ⁓ I believe was Christmas Eve and like nothing open we sat right in my first door set right in front of a Walmart even Walmart was closed and What ended up happening was so cold, the pipes in the boiler room froze. I started getting this alarm code from the boiler and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, this is awful. What am I going to do? Cause I knew that, ⁓ know, probably with the freezing pipes, they're going to expand and then when they thaw out, you know, there's going to be water everywhere. And remember sitting behind that back door, you know, Christmas Eve, ⁓ three weeks in like, what in the world did I do? I have no one to call. I can't go get a heater because Walmart's not even open, a space heater. You know, I had actually, the week before I'd fired the entire team except for one person. So, you know, was like, it was a disaster. But anyhow, and sure enough, that next morning things thawed and it flooded the entire store. But figured it out. Like didn't think I could do it, but.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. You're like, can't call them back.
Dave Coyle: push forward and ⁓ you're given no other choice but to make it work, you make it work.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep, I love that. I love the figuring it out process to you talked about this diagram of the journey of an entrepreneur and I think on the front end it looks like OK, hey, they're going through a lot of crap but man there figuring it out. But then there's that scary back end that you faced yourself which is how do you cope with a lot of those moments right like when you go through some of those tough times. A lot of them, maybe some people find themselves looking to a bottle, looking to external things, maybe potentially drugs. They're looking to something to kind of numb some of the pain that there may be going through. And I know that you've been very open about battle that you went through. Now this is while you're building, is that correct? And then two, what did it take? Like what? What did it take for you to kind of turn that page and realize, you know, this is not, this is not sustainable. And ultimately, if I don't adjust or fix this, everything's probably going down with it.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, no, that's a really great point. mean, you know, I've certainly had, well, let me put it this way. I mean, I've probably had just about every bad habit there is to have, I mean, short of, I don't think I've done any drugs where you have to like shoot it in through a needle. ⁓ But.
Cleaner Conversations: Okay. Okay. That's when you're like, okay, I shouldn't be showing up to work today.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, but you know, but yeah, I mean, I've shown up drunk. I was buying another dry cleaner at one point and I went and had that meeting after two Bloody Marys. You know, like there was a lot. Pretty much from age 25 to 40, I was a daily drinker, 15 years.
Cleaner Conversations: Wow. While you were building.
Dave Coyle: yeah, yeah, and know there were a lot of other things I mean I take full responsibility for it, but you know I was in a very dysfunctional marriage ⁓ I handle the stress of growing the company very I think there were a of lingering things that kind of unresolved trauma from the past ⁓ frankly trauma that ⁓ I would say that ⁓ was a recipient and probably that I created and things were intertwined
Cleaner Conversations: Wow.
Dave Coyle: interwined quite a bit. I realized was is that, like addiction is a solution.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Nope.
Dave Coyle: Right? It's not a good one. ⁓ It's a pretty bad one in most cases, but it a solution. ⁓ So of when you frame it that way, you you don't say, ⁓ wow, I'm the worst person in the world, but it's like, hey, if this solution isn't working for me, maybe it's time to try a different solution. For me, it was a point of very strong isolation. So I've learned, at least in my case, that opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's So it's why I'm so open about it. Yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: That's a great point, Dave. That's a wonderful point. Cause I, if you're not in a room, who's going to, do you have anybody in your life? You know, I'm not asking you this question, but the ⁓ listening, like, do you have anybody in your life that would go, Hey, I haven't seen you in a while. because if you're not part of those little tribes or communities, no one can check on you. And then you can isolate and find yourself stuck in some places. well, first of all, thank you for sharing that because I know that There's other people who have found solutions that probably they just long-term are not going to work. They're going to actually not serve them. you think about ⁓ back to your 25 year old self and running a business, and I'm going to kind of tap into that coaching brain of yours, the consulting brain, what would be the biggest shift in how you would change that 25 year old self's thinking? whether it's an operation, whether it's personal, whether it's business wise, where would you first begin with that 25 year old self?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, first of all and to kind of take it from what we just talked about, I think the true joys in life are the relationships that we have, ideally with the people we like to have them with, right? And those need to be built on some level of transparency. I've always had this thought, or at least since the last 13 years since I've been sober, you know, that you're as sick as your secrets.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah.
Dave Coyle: And, you know, and I used to be very sick, and I used to have a lot of secrets and that's what fueled the isolation. So if I could sum it up in a couple ways here, and what I would tell myself back then is that, you need to shift the mindset from what's in it for me to what's in it for you. like the reason I think I was so isolated is because I was just a taker, right?
Cleaner Conversations: That's a great statement.
Dave Coyle: Like I felt shame for what I was doing, but that kind of created a situation where I was just trying to, I was in survival mode and I was just trying to figure out kind of what's in it for me. Now you can't create relationships, whether it's with clients, team members, spouse, partner, anything, if all you're doing is thinking about yourself, right? ⁓ now what I try to do, and this is a major shift that's happened over decades,
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: I think what's in it for you. On this podcast for example, I'll try to share things ⁓ are important for other people. Maybe not that important for me, but I'm thinking what's in it for you. Yeah, does that make sense? ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Absolutely. Oh, that much sense because then that begins to then pour out and what you're contributing rather than what you're consuming because ultimately that whole analogy of a lake is very different than something that is flowing, that is moving, that is pouring into something else. So yeah, I really appreciate that insight and I think that would be a great lesson for any 25 year old. person or operator to learn is, I'm in this for the clients and I will be benefited as a result. But first I'm thinking what's in it for them. So yeah, great answer.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, the success that you have is created by the value that you create for other people.
Cleaner Conversations: Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of good phrases that are going to come out of this podcast for sure. Yeah. And it, it speaks to when we go to these, being a part of a group that wants to give rather than constantly take is pretty noticeable. is the byproduct of you understanding the community's important to you or yourself, improving your personal life, but also your business was Maverick dry cleaners, a byproduct of trying to create that community,
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I think it was. know, here's what I've noticed is, is that, most people try to make a business successful and they think that then they'll build their life on the success of the business. ⁓ And think it's really backwards. Like I'm a, I'm a big fan of first figuring out what you want to do in your life. And let's say, you know, obviously that changes over time. It's ⁓ a lot looking at the horizon. As you walk towards it, the view is going to change. You're going to reassess and look at a different So, the idea is that you first want to ideally create ⁓ a by design that then is fueled by a business by design. And when we created this community, ⁓ I that people needed help doing that, right? they needed skills. And I believe that all business skills, whether it's finance or marketing team development, leadership, I think all business skills are learnable. It's not like we were hardwired when we were born with skills or not. So I really feel like when it comes to leadership for example that you can only take other people as far as you've taken yourself. Otherwise you're telling them what to do not showing them what to do and most people it backwards and they try to build their life based on the business but you really want a business that helps you do what you want in life.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: And sometimes that feels selfish. Yeah.
Cleaner Conversations: I love that. Yeah, that's great. I love the connection though, right? I've heard someone say one time, man, map out your, family vacations or your family time at the beginning of the year, and then put everything, so right now, you know, how to build around that, and it just starts with the individual first taking care of that. Hopefully the business will actually experience the overflow. And Dave, a lot of people know you and I think Even myself might think Well Dave's already at where he wants to be you've gotten into so many different areas with what you do Do you ever feel like hey, I'm kind of at the top or no. I'm always pushing. There's always something
Dave Coyle: Yeah, that's a great question, one of my, ⁓ my original coaches, Dan Sullivan, who is up in Toronto, Canada, ⁓ he once told that, motivation for an entrepreneur is all about having a future that's greater than your past. And so I think for us to stay motivated, we always have to have a future. And someone once asked me, you they said, hey, my dad just got cancer. how can he have a future that's greater than his past? And I said, ⁓ he might create more impact in how he handles his cancer diagnosis and have more impact on those around him than perhaps he's had in his entire life. But it just depends on how he handles it. So we can always have a future that's greater than our past. When I first started out, I would say that for probably the first decade, I just thought more is better. Right? But more is not always better. And that could be money, that could be, know, stores or team members or clients. Like we always sometimes think of sales as like, ⁓ that's better. That's why he's at the top of the industry because of sales he's got. ⁓ more is not better. Better is better.
Cleaner Conversations: in the world. Yep.
Dave Coyle: You know, and you don't know what's better unless you create that personal vision, is, is important and really defines what's important you.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, really well said. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Dave. Now, ⁓ you first started scaling in the bag, what some of those ⁓ operational We're going to of shift a little bit into a tactical side. What were some of those operational changes that ⁓ actually moved the for you?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I would say one of the big things was that I opened retail stores in six years. Okay, so the first six years in business started in 2000. and each time I grew a those first six stores were intentional. Like, let's fill out the map a little bit. Three stores on the east side of town, three on the west side of town. But... ⁓ Then what I quickly learned in 2000 was the time of, you when those YAHUs, you know, decided to fly the planes in the towers of 9-11, ⁓ I would actually have largest acquisition of 13 stores during the crisis of 2008. what I learned pretty early was, was that sometimes the best time to grow is ⁓ during times of uncertainty. you be certain, ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, great point.
Dave Coyle: when other people are uncertain, it's one of, it's one of the best ways. People are sitting on the sidelines waiting for things to pass ⁓ and go hit the accelerator. So I say six stores in six years ⁓ for me, one store year, ⁓ was what gave me the confidence ⁓ to then and then ⁓ about seven in, buy those 13 stores, which I got at a fire sale. Like I bought them for $200,000, you know, and they were doing $2 million in sales, but it ended up being 12 months of an absolute nightmare. Fired everyone but three people, you know, from those had to close a lot of stores. They were on a computer system that like was older than DOS, you know. So anyhow, was a lot of hard work, but...
Cleaner Conversations: Hmm. Yeah.
Dave Coyle: Opening those stores and not just kind of like being like, okay, we've got two things are cool You know, we hit I hit it hard for a while
Cleaner Conversations: And I love that you said that once you purchased them. There's a 12 hellish months, right? Like everybody sees the number. They see the revenue on paper, but they don't know some of the hell that you have to go through to maintain it, to grow it, to get past that what Seth Godin calls the dip when you're just either ready to quit or you move on. So you walk into the average dry cleaner. And I know that there's a number of questions you would already be asking or thinking of asking, where do you gravitate to like the one thing that you tend to feel like a dry cleaner should be focused on or fixing? what's that one metric or metrics that owners that probably have not been in the space of having conversations like this ⁓ that not paying enough attention to?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, so I would say I could learn success if I looked at their calendar. ⁓ So the number one metric is how hours a business owner works in their business daily ops. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: Okay. in real like real hours, not just like, yeah, I think I worked this. No, no, no. Like real hours when you're going home, doing emails. Yep.
Dave Coyle: Right. Like getting the stuff done. Like how many hours do they work? Because here's the thing, someone can either ⁓ focus on simplifying daily operations, and ⁓ we all a tendency to do that, or they can focus on accelerating growth. Now, most people are not good. People try to do it where they can do both, but it's kind of like pressing the brake in a car hitting the gas at the same time. ⁓ Like you spin out, right? and you can get very overwhelmed. It can seem productive because you're doing a lot, ⁓ but The biggest thing I would say is that people have to get out of daily operations they want to grow and scale their business.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, great, great answer. really like that. ⁓ you've coached lot operators through the Maverick Group, ⁓ one-on-one, what's one of the common ⁓ financial mistakes that you see consistently a dry cleaner owner?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I mean this business is pretty simple. I mean it's simple. but not easy. And what's simple about it is, is that you have to be able to create sales ⁓ at or on demand. And you to be able to ⁓ control payroll, is the largest expense. So I would say the biggest thing that people struggle with, but it's also the biggest opportunity, ⁓ is to be to control production payroll creep, what I'll call, which is that it's slowly creeping up. ⁓ through inefficiency or for paying people more for them doing the same amount of value. someone who's been with you for 10 years but every year they get a raise even though they're not adding any more value. But a lot of business owners in our space are not very good at matching the amount of payroll they pay to the amount or labor to the amount of work that needs to be done. And you have to have a system for that. You have to have to. look, we'd love to think of our team members as our family, okay? But ⁓ have their own interests at mind. And I love every single one of our team members very, very much. But they have their family, we have our family, you know, our do have to be managed. And oftentimes let that creep and slide, ⁓ and ⁓ they're way too much in payroll compared to the work that needs to be done.
Cleaner Conversations: is there a percentage that you work from or that you encourage payroll to be at? Is it like a?
Dave Coyle: Well, it depends a little bit on how the business is set up, right? Like we have people in our group who, have a bunch of different plants, packaged plants. Typically they're called, other people have a hub and spoke model like what we've got one central production, with a lot of stores and routes that feed into it. So it depends a little bit, but, payroll overall should be 40, 43 % of sales, but the whole magic of the
Cleaner Conversations: Okay.
Dave Coyle: game is to create the business is to create the most amount of cash flow from least amount of assets or overhead. So we to pour a ton of sales through the assets that got ideally so that we can hit marginal profit earlier in the month ⁓ getting a lot profit from those additional amounts of sales.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Love it. So with those tactics, you build a seven figure EBITDA business in an industry where margins are usually very tight. When you look at the Maverick group, how many of them are coming from any structure? Is that a low percentage?
Dave Coyle: Well, most people show up because of some level of pain, right? Like, people have a tendency to want to solve pain before they go after gain. ⁓ most people show and finally admit that maybe they could use some help, some assistance, some coaching getting rid of some of that pain. So we go to work on that pretty quickly. ⁓ ⁓ the thing, you know, ⁓ a difference between what make and what you keep. So sales, ⁓ which people judge themselves on, is only a reflection ⁓ of one, your pricing model, and number two, the value you create for the clients that have. Okay and most people look at that and say ⁓ my up or down from last year what are my pieces what are my sales you know but profit or the EBITDA line as an example is more a result of
Cleaner Conversations: Correct.
Dave Coyle: your management of the efficiency of your operation. So yes, quality is important, but so is quantity. And for probably the first decade, I only judged myself on sales and then I'm like, ⁓ I'm making a lot of sales, but I'm not keeping a lot. There's a ton of leaky holes in the bucket. So we really like to focus right out of the gates on helping people how to plug those holes so that when they add more sales in, more of that then is money that they can keep.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, love it. Dave, you've had a couple talks recently on pickup and delivery. I you had a webinar the other day. How should owners be thinking about pickup and delivery in 2026?
Dave Coyle: Yeah, so, you know, there's a lot of things that we do either defensively or just as like a little side hustle. So someone might offer alterations as an example and they that so that maybe they outsource it to someone else but ⁓ it's a little extra service but it's kind of a defensive move ⁓ to make that that client doesn't go down the street to someone who has alterations on site, can do it faster but then they take all their business over there right? Well I learned early on that not many points Kind of like football, not many points are scored on defense. They're almost all scored on offense. So I think someone has to decide whether it's pick up and delivery. other key services like some people say let me dip my toe in the water with wash and fold or comforters or alterations or shoe repairs or whatever and I'm not a big fan of dipping the toe in the water like I think you should walk all the way through the door and make it a main pillar of how you do business. Now the reason why I think I'm so excited about pick up and delivery and we're growing ours at in the bag faster than we ever have before is ⁓ we are focusing on essentially 15 dream neighborhoods in our town of 400,000 people. Now only, those are only about nine, ten thousand homes. But, you can create a five, ten million dollar business based on ten thousand homes if you those deeply. ⁓ So the for me is that when we focus on neighborhoods, we want to have retail stores that are convenient to those, convenient to where those people particularly grocery shop. But we also then ⁓ want to be to lock them into a very loyal giving relationship ⁓ with pick up delivery to those 15 dream neighborhoods. So it really kind of fits in and people, for us, not even about locking in the loyalty or, you know, we're taking a more active role in the relationship or sales go up for those people. ⁓ really just the best way to serve those clients. We give them a 24 inch rolling rack, put it in their garage. ⁓ people have their garage codes, so we're not shoving a bunch of clothes on ⁓ a doorknob or between the on a wreath hook, you know, we like put it in their garage, nice for them, do their laundry. So we're focusing on less people but trying to do more for them.
Cleaner Conversations: I love that hyper focusing Yeah. And one of the themes that I'm catching throughout this entire podcast is just a mindset shift. Right. And one of the things I believe I've heard you say to some degree to the people in room is you need to stop thinking like a technician. ⁓ Although it's important to every nuance of what you do. But to start thinking more like a CEO ⁓ or a leader. What that shift? ⁓ when it comes from thinking less like a technician to more like a CEO.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, I think it's a couple things. That's a really good question. You know, it all has to do with time perspective. So, here's the thing. When someone is making an hourly wage and they're a technician and they're pressing clothes or they're unloading a dry cleaning machine, they're trading money that they're receiving from the company and they're thinking of results that they'll get in time and effort, which means that if I want to make more money, I've got to either work more hours, more time, or I've got to work harder, put in more effort. Well, know, entrepreneurs who go from being a technician to ideally a manager to more of a CEO or a business owner and then an investor, what they do differently is they focus on leverage. And to focus on leverage, what you're doing is you're actually working in different economy. You're not in time and effort economy, you're focused more on results economy. economy, which is basically, look, I'm going to put three things, and I do this to this day, I put three things that I'm going to do in a given day. And it's kind of it's known kind of as like a signal theory that ⁓ three things that I put on my list, that's the signal and everything else is just noise. Do I do some of the noise? Do I do some of the checklist items? Sure. ⁓ what I really do is focus on those three things. So I'm a big fan of defining your value. creating a three-year vision, putting together a 90-day blueprint, and then really doing three daily things that focus on the daily signal that is things that are motivating, meaningful, and multiply over time instead of focusing on the distraction and the noise that's all around us.
Cleaner Conversations: I love that because Seth Godin talks about this lizard brain that wants to do the things that don't add much value, but it's like, I can just get it done. can tweak that text a little bit more. I can touch that email a little bit more. And you're like, ⁓ but that's the role that you're here to play. There's some bigger value things that you need to focus on. So those top three have to be guarded. They have to be protected. And when they're done, you're the one that was supposed to do them. nobody else could have. So yeah, I love that answer, Dave. It's a miracle how much you can actually get done when you focus on a couple things rather than a hundred different things. Dave, to ⁓ go off the clock a little bit for our, for our official off the clock segment. ⁓ Whatever means. ⁓ what's the funniest or most chaotic thing. probably a lot. So maybe we need to give you some time on this one. but the most chaotic or funniest thing that's ever happened to you at one of your stores.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, you know, 25 years in the business, all kinds of stuff's happened, right? know, some of it's... Not funny at the time, but it's funny later. stores have been robbed. You know, we've had fires. We've had a tornado hit a store. we've had domestic disputes, like crazy stuff that you're like, ⁓ I have no idea why husband down to our production facility and got in a fight with his wife, pressing clothes ⁓ but probably one of the craziest for me was it was when I first started out and I was working for Jim in
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. Hahaha
Dave Coyle: Kansas City, Missouri at Pride Cleaners. And so I didn't have my own company yet, but still this was super crazy. And they put me as part of this manager training program. I was making like 16,000 bucks a year. And put me over at this store, like in the hood. I mean, was, there were bars on the window. There was a pawn shop right out in front of the store. ⁓ it really bad. It was over on the Missouri side of Kansas City in a not area. I didn't even know why there was a dry cleaner there. But anyhow, it was busy. we did good. And ⁓ this shop owner was a regular client and he just came back from Vegas. And so we brought in his tuxedo after coming back from Vegas. And there were three things ⁓ in his pockets. And probably like most humorous things are things that we found in people's pockets. I mean, we recently had a loaded gun in someone's, you know, in someone's
Cleaner Conversations: Woo!
Dave Coyle: laundry and you know and but you know we've returned like you know thong underwear in a guy's ⁓ pair of pants pocket that ended up being his wife's size ⁓ so that created kinds of problems but this one was ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: How could you? How could you ruin their marriage like that?
Dave Coyle: We don't do it anymore like now when we get that situation we like throw in the trash because I'm not gonna be blamed for anyone's divorce, But but this guy ended up coming back from Vegas. He had $6,000 of cash in his in his tuxedo top He had a bag of cocaine in there and, ⁓ then a knife something. Look, it was crazy. I'm like, what in the world is going on here? So I'm like, what are we supposed to do with this stuff? It was the first time that I'd found drugs in, in someone's pocket. And I've since, we've since found a lot. ⁓ And so I'm like, okay, I'm just going to throw this the trash. Well. The pressers that we had there at the time, I think were straight out of work release or something like that because when I threw that in the trash in the bathroom, and I went about finished the day, I ended up actually walking the $6,000 in ⁓ cash over to the guy and he loved it. ⁓ He ask where his drugs were, but I came back later and I went to the bathroom and I looked over in that trash can and God forbid drugs are gone.
Cleaner Conversations: You They're gone. They're gone. The bathroom was sparkling.
Dave Coyle: They're gone. obviously, no one came in or anything like that. It was just the two or three people pressing. So someone got themselves a big old bag of coke.
Cleaner Conversations: I love it. That's a great story. got like 48 hours of work at one of those guys. This guy is off the chart today. I just thought of the movie Elf when he was completely drunk and hammered. All right. you've seen this industry from every angle, You talk to cleaners all the time.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, yeah things were moving fast that afternoon real fast
Cleaner Conversations: Where do you think the dry cleaning industry goes from here? I know a little heavier than our last question, but. Yeah, are you excited about it? Are you fearful about it? would you say?
Dave Coyle: I personally am very excited about it. Now, I'm gonna keep it real here and this isn't gonna make everyone happy, but 80 % of dry cleaners suck. Okay, so you know, here's the deal. ⁓ know, 80 %...
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Okay, yep.
Dave Coyle: of anyone in any industry are in total survival mode. Like they're just keeping their head above water. As crazy as it seems, 80 % of people in our community are in at least financial survival mode. So the challenge really is that in almost any industry, It is what you make of it. are you going to accelerate and be in the top 20%, the top 15%, the top 5 % of the industry? Well, if you are, then it is going to be really, really good to you. Now, I'm a huge fan of multiple lines of revenue, right? So like, I don't think there should be just one. I mean, just like coaching and consulting for me is another significant line of revenue. Investments can be a sign of revenue. Some people flip homes, whatever, right? You know, so So, I'm not just like all in. However, I think... given the right coaching, given the right tools, given the right mindset, you can be very, very successful in this industry. You can't do it like people did 15, 20 years ago when everyone wore a suit to work. Like Comforters, for example, is our way to kind of buck the trend of decreasing peace counts and profit. But it is a way to like literally hockey stick up your EBITDA line. So I'm excited. about certain parts and I've just got to focus on those things it's still an awesome opportunity and I hate to say it because 80 % of dry cleaners are not that great you have to be that different ⁓ to really stand out and take market share.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. Yeah, well first of all, I like the fact that you're excited about it. Cohen and I were just in Cleveland this past week and were talking to an ⁓ owner that's and his wife, they've been in the industry for almost 50 years I'm like, are you guys excited? And she goes, well, not about the peace count. Like back then it used to be amazing, know, those things used to flood in. But ⁓ I do like this creative ways of of overcoming some of those challenges from an industry that was one way and it certainly evolved over time and if you can adapt and be flexible with the evolution, I think you can do well. I have one more question. Do you have anything before I ask?
Dave Coyle: Yep. And by the way, if you're excited in Cleveland, I mean, that means that's a big, and I'm from Cleveland.
Cleaner Conversations: I know, right? ⁓ I don't even know that the people in Cleveland we know are excited about Cleveland. They are excited. They're very excited. About Cleveland, the city. ⁓ Very, very nice.
Dave Coyle: Cleveland gets a bad rap. My mom, actually we're going to visit my mom there in a couple weeks and that's where I was born and raised. But, know, in all kidding aside though, here's the thing. know, Earl Nightingale, one of my favorite quotes is, is that the opposite of courage is not cowardice, conformity. So the idea is you can't try to be like everyone else. The goal, if you're going to be successful, is not to try to be better. ⁓ it's to try to be different. That's what people talk about. That's what makes you stand out, is how to be different. And sometimes we have to take things from other industries, that are our wow experiences, and then put them into ours. But we can't look from within our industry necessarily to look for all the answers.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah, really well said. Well, first of all, just want to say this, this time with you has been very, very good. And I'm sure people listening to this. have got a tremendous amount of nuggets that they can just take apply and work into their life. I have one final question. We normally do this with our guests just to kind of speak to the person that is listening. They're grinding. They want to be successful and honestly, maybe they're one of the 80 % right where they just they suck as a leader or they suck as a dry cleaner, but that can always change right? You said skills are something that you can learn. So what is your encouragement for the person that
Dave Coyle: That's right.
Cleaner Conversations: is just having doubts, can they succeed, and for the one that actually sucks, that they can actually change things up.
Dave Coyle: Yeah, and... You know, and I don't use the word suck easily because that's kind of a harsh word. It's like calling someone lazy, and doesn't often times show much hope, but I will say, there's a tremendous spark of hope. It's odd and, know, I, as a kid, I actually on two different occasions saw the police or fire. we would go up to this lake in Western New York and I've seen two bodies pulled out of the water there as a kid.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep.
Dave Coyle: after people had drowned you know I've had a lot of I've been around a lot of trauma I've seen a lot of that family friends everything else but here's what I know is is that don't drown by falling in the water like you drown by staying in the water Right? So if someone's part of that 80%, a lot of it actually has to do, and you're in survival mode, a lot of it actually has to do with who you hang out with. Now, the challenge is, is that sometimes the people closest to you are the ones who directly or indirectly say, you know, and keep you down, say you can't do it. Right? Like, and that's challenging. So you've got to have a group of people, you've got to have friends, you've got to have some people who are encouraging, who are saying you can do it, because it's easy to fall into treating yourself as a victim, blaming yourself or others, ⁓ but you to be the one that takes full responsibility for your life. Someone once told me, they said, ⁓ most people of it like everything happens to me. ⁓ bad things happen, I'm struggling, I figure this like all this stuff's happening to me. you want to shift your mindset to say everything in my life happens for me. it's literally like nutrients ⁓ that we learn from, grow from. But ⁓ I will you probably the number one most important thing is to be around people that encourage you, that excite you, that say you can do it. Like that is so important. ⁓ If you want to get out of that mode of ⁓ feeling you're stuck, feeling like you're in survival mode, ⁓ if you want to fly like eagle, ⁓ you can't be sitting down on pond with the ducks. ⁓ You've got to go find some that you can go fly with. does it. ⁓
Cleaner Conversations: I love about that too. You're not always comfortable. You're gonna feel like, you gotta step up sometimes. You're gonna feel challenged. And then those people are honest with you sometimes of like, ⁓ There's some things that you just need to really face reality about step on that scale. So, it's been a great time with you. Thank you for, for investing into this community as much as you have. Yeah. Dave, can people find you? and a little bit about a maverick. ⁓
Dave Coyle: No, that's awesome. Yeah, can find us at maverickdrycleaners.com and maverick is the term that we use because go where everyone else doesn't go. So we are outliers some but we're the ones that really are ⁓ focused on doing the that other people don't do. We're different and that's exciting. But we do ⁓ help with
Cleaner Conversations: you
Dave Coyle: with marketing, being able to grow sales on demand, finance, ⁓ turning sales into profit, ⁓ team and leadership, and then course ⁓ personal development, growth of you as ⁓ an entrepreneur. So ⁓ it's really We get together quarterly and ⁓ it's been having you guys at some of our meetings too. And it's just an exciting place. People are ultra positive. ⁓ We love we do.
Cleaner Conversations: Yep. Yeah.
Dave Coyle: people we hang out with. yeah, probably Maverick Dry Cleaners is the best way to get a hold of me or my team. thanks so much, guys, for your time today. I really enjoyed getting to know both of you guys and Cohen and everything you guys do for the industry as well. Thanks so much.
Cleaner Conversations: Yeah. Yeah, well, thank you, Dave. Well, Sam, that is another episode on the books. so how can those listening or sharing it with others, where can they find us? Yeah. Thank you, Dave. you guys can find us wherever ⁓ you listen. So Apple, Spotify, and YouTube ⁓ should video recordings of all of those on all channels except for Apple. So go figure with Apple. But it's cleaner conversations. The links are on our Facebook and all our socials. So thank you guys for listening. And again, Dave, obviously, thank you. a day, everybody. Thanks, guys. Bye bye.
Dave Coyle: Awesome. Love you guys. See ya. Bye.
