EP 58: Legislative Priorities with Senator Tom Umberg

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So welcome back to another episode of Chamber Talk, the podcast where we break
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down the policies and legislation that impact businesses and communities right here in Orange County.
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I'm Andrew Gregson, CEO of North Orange County Chamber of Commerce.
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And today we are honored by having Senator Tom Onberg with us from,
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obviously, who represents the 34th District.
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Thank you, sir, for coming on today. Appreciate it. Thanks, Andrew.
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And there are some things that come across that really don't get very much media attention.
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And it really means more to everybody who's listening and in our community.
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And I wanted to ask you a few questions about that today, if that's all right.
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So the first one is I thought we'd set off with, you know, recently you introduced
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a Senate Bill 448 that addresses an issue regarding trespassing and unlawful
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properties and things like that.
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And I was wondering if you could share a little bit about what made you first
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think about that, how you came to it and what it really means to us all.
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Sure. Well, here's the issue. And when I look at legislation,
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one of the things I ask is what is the good we're basically promoting or what
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is the harm that we're trying to reduce? And in this case...
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There's both good and harm. The harm is when there's a vacant building,
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a house, whatever it may be, and folks move in.
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They have no right to be there. It's not a tenant who's held over.
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It's simply someone who moves into a vacant property and they stay and sometimes
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they do harm to the property, but it's very difficult to have them move out.
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So if you're the rightful, lawful property owner and you want to lease it or
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you want to sell it, you can't do it because there's folks that are occupying
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it that have no right to be there.
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And so what this does is this basically expedites the process.
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You don't go through an unlawful detainer action, which is what you do if you've
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got a tenant who is, you're evicting a tenant.
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This is someone who's a trespasser. It's no right to be there.
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And the other part of it, that's the harm.
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And the good is that you want to have housing especially available.
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We've got a tremendous housing shortage. And so you don't want housing tied
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up by people who don't belong there.
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Now, they're homeless. There are other places for homeless folks.
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There's shelters, transitional shelters.
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There's all sorts of other ways that housing that people can be sheltered.
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But simply squatting in someone's home is not the way to do it.
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Now, in my own personal experience, does that sort of waver along,
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you know, squatters right type of thing and those evictions?
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Because those evictions, as you say, can take a very long time and it's costly
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to the person who owns a property.
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It takes a long time and it's costly and it takes the property off the market
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for a long period of time. And they damage it usually whilst they're in the
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process, don't they? That's right. That's right.
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And so that, yes, that's the purpose behind the bill. Um, I think that,
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you know, and you had asked about squatters rights, um.
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And that term is used, I think, for folks who adversely possess property.
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If you actually openly and notoriously possess property for a period of a number
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of years, then the ancient law says you become the owner of that property.
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That's the law, isn't it? Right. That's right. That's right.
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But that's over an extended period, five years, 10 years, that kind of thing.
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This is really folks who are sort of temporarily occupied. Just deciding to
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occupy something. Right. Exactly.
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Well, that makes sense. Well, thank you for doing that. That's cool. That's awesome.
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That's a thing that a lot of people talk about, to be honest, especially right now.
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And even so, now we even have these open restaurants now, don't they?
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They've been there for quite a while and nobody's really occupying those as
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they're being renovated or whatever.
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And that happens too, which is part of the problem.
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So another thing that I was, when I was reading through your website and obviously
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all the bills, and you've been very busy, so I'm going to spout off the bill
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number, but I'm not expecting you to remember it because I wouldn't remember those either.
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So another one is Senate Bill 398, which prohibits lotteries or prize base incentives
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for voter registration,
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which is something that we don't generally think of ourselves.
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But obviously, it meant something to you and why you were pushing that forward.
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So, sure. In the 2024 election, there was an issue, not in California,
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but other places, about basically creating a lottery.
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Someone could win a million dollars if they registered to vote.
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They had to be of a certain type. And it is my view that the election process
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is unique to the United States,
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or at least unique in terms of the way, I mean, both the process and the electoral
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college and that kind of thing are all very, very unique.
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It's our own, isn't it? It is our own, and it is my view that you've got to
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want to register to vote. You've got to want to participate in your community.
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Same thing with voting. You should do it, but you should do it for the right
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reasons, and it's not to win a million dollars.
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It's because you care about your community. And so providing incentives to register
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to vote and providing incentives,
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you know, monetary incentives to actually vote or giving somebody something
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of value in exchange for them voting is illegal in California.
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And this is just another aspect of that.
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It's it's.
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An issue that has arisen in other places, and I'm hoping it doesn't arise here
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in California, and it just prevents it.
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Well, you know, to be fair, I've been, as we were talking offline before,
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but I was discussing some of that testing that I do.
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One of the questions is, what is your responsibility as a citizen of the United
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States of America? And one of them is to go and vote.
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That's right. You've got very few responsibilities.
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Right, right. By the way, Andrew, big things in store for Andrew.
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Andrew's going to become a citizen of the United States. That's fantastic. That's wonderful.
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And I really appreciate it when people who come to the United States,
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they value, you don't have to become a citizen.
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You can stay here as long as you're legally a resident. You don't have to become a citizen.
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But folks that take the extra step because they want to vote,
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because they want to participate, because they feel an obligation to give back,
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they go through the rigors of becoming a citizen. And you did that.
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So thank you very much. That's wonderful. That's wonderful.
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I appreciate that. I'm happy to hear that you're going to become a citizen here very, very soon.
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Well, I mean, it's been really part of this job has made me really realize how
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important it is, you know.
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Getting the opportunity to learn about how all our political figures,
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how they interact with the community and how what we see, what we believe,
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what's seen is heard and also transpired back.
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So really, that's a big thing to all you guys. Well, one of the things that
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concerns me is that the lack of understanding of the importance of the checks
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and balances that we have between the three co-equal branches of government.
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And it was designed that way by our founders a couple hundred years ago so that
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not one branch becomes too powerful.
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That's what they were worried about. They were worried about your kin from the
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UK, from the United Kingdom, having a king,
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an authoritarian source of all sort of power.
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And once we break down those checks and balances, once, for example,
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the Congress doesn't do its job as a check on the president,
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on the executive branch, or the judges,
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the judiciary is not recognized as the branch that actually is the final arbiter of the law.
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That we, I know this sounds a bit hyperbolic, but we devolve into an authoritarian society. And,
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I am concerned that, in particular, young people don't understand the value
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of these co-equal branches of government that are unique to the United States.
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That's unique to the United States, and we have prospered, not just politically,
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but economically, because we have the rule of law here.
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And once the rule of law, once people don't have to follow the law,
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once the rule of law becomes just whatever edict is issued by whomever happens
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to be president, that's what happens to other countries. and the economy implodes.
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And so it's of great importance for all of us, and particularly for our children
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and grandchildren, that folks understand the importance of those checks and balances.
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I think you've got an amazing point there.
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And I also feel or see that a lot of it is being lost, isn't it?
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So you mentioned there about checks and balances, the rules that really that
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we're supposed to abide by or look at, you know, of the forefathers of the country.
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Way ahead of the time thought of something that's more intelligent than anybody
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else has really figured out between now and then.
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And I feel that it's not just a younger generation that's missing this.
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The less that people discuss it, the less that it's actually mentioned or explained, it just gets lost.
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I mean, because there's so much information that's feeding through us every
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day that the real stuff just gets lost.
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And I know that obviously you're a big part of the judicial system.
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You know, somebody who really understands it,
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what other things could we do as citizens understand more about how these systems
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should be in place rather than having to rely on fact-finding somewhere, you know?
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Well, I mean, it all starts in civics education when you're in grade school.
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But I think that whatever information you learn in grade school needs to be reinforced.
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And the practical reality of reinforcing it is so important.
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It's just not this sort of academic exercise.
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So I'm a lawyer by profession, and the judiciary has historically been independent
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here in the United States.
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And that's served us very well.
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I've disagreed with judicial decisions, but once the judge and the Supreme Court
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have made a decision, that's the law of the land, and you have to obey it.
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And if one branch of the government that the Congress just says,
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simply says, we're not going to obey it anymore, then things collapse.
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So, you know, I mean, I'll just use an example from the 1950s,
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a case called Brown versus Board of Education.
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The Supreme Court said, here's what we're going to do.
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We're going to say you can't have segregated schools anymore.
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That segregation is illegal in the United States. And several states said,
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we're not going to abide by it.
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And the executive then said, look, I may not agree with that decision,
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but that's the decision of the Supreme Court.
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And we are bound by the rule of law to follow what the Supreme Court says.
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So I'm going to enforce that.
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As the executive, I'm going to enforce the law. And that's really the executive's
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responsibility is to enforce the law.
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If at that point in time, the executive said, well, okay, fine.
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Supreme Court said it too bad.
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You guys do whatever you want to do, whatever state you want to do it in.
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Then we no longer have the rule of law.
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And it is because we have the rule of law. So, for example, one of the reasons
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our economy is strong here in the United States as compared to other countries
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is because if there's a dispute between two either individuals or businesses,
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you can go to court and you can get an independent decision from a court that's
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not influenced by corruption.
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But once the courts become corrupt, once, and I've spent a lot of time working
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in this space in South America and Afghanistan and places like that,
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once the courts become corrupt, people don't want to invest because they have
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no recourse if you don't perform in accordance with whatever contract you may
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have. No checks and balances. There's no checks and balances.
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So it is critically important that our judiciary stay independent.
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It's critically important that we maintain the rule of law. And it's critically
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important that everyone understand why that underpins our economy,
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why that underpins our way of life, our quality of life.
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So, another thing that I'd noticed, obviously, the last administration,
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President Biden, there was an AI regulation.
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And, of course, California, we're a big part of the tech industry,
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and I know that's a big thing for you.
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Do you mind sharing a little bit about what you're working on regarding that?
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Artificial intelligence is probably the technology that is, in my lifetime, most transformative.
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Right.
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More so than the internet, more so than even personal computers. Right.
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And artificial intelligence, I think everyone's heard of it.
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A lot of folks don't understand exactly what that is.
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But artificial intelligence actually is a model that is designed to work like a human brain.
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So you get input and you analyze that input and you then get output.
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So you can ask, you know, one of these large language models,
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whatever it is, ChatGPT. ChatGP, right. or one of the other models.
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And you can give that model certain information and they'll spit out an essay.
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They'll spit out a solution.
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And that's good. And you can give input and you can find cures for diseases
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that we've never been able to cure before.
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You can create medicines. You can create all sorts of efficiencies,
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all sorts of efficiencies.
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But you also can create some real hazards.
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I mean, you can create a weapon, a biological weapon.
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You can create even a nuclear weapon. If you get the know-how,
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if you have the resources, you can do that.
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And so we need to make sure that we basically harvest the good and protect everyone
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against the bad in terms of artificial intelligence.
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And that's a very tricky thing. That's a very tricky thing as to how we can
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make sure that artificial intelligence benefits us, benefits us in terms of
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what they produce here in California.
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We do have a large artificial intelligence economy, particularly in the Bay
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Area, and we want to protect that.
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You're right that the current administration in Washington has basically said,
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you know, have at it, everyone, that there's not going to be rules.
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I don't agree with that. The European Union has developed rules and ways of
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enforcing those rules, and I chair the Judiciary Committee where all that legislation comes.
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And I'm trying to make sure that we in California are aligned internationally
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so that whatever standards are adopted here in California are consistent with
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international standards.
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So that means that the way we define artificial intelligence,
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the way we protect against certain harms, whether we require the models to, for example,
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to be tested, either you can self-certify or you can have a governmental entity
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sort of certify whether or not this model lends itself to...
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To ultimately providing something that could be very harmful.
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Now, that's not an easy job because, you know, that's like controlling the internet, isn't it?
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So is, I suppose, is the thought process of this is if, because I'm assuming
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it would be a company who's bringing it forward.
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If a company were to bring a new AI idea forward, the idea of this is they would
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have to openly showcase this to this committee first.
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So the committee could look at it, ask questions, do whatever,
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because in the long run, it might look fine, fluffy and beautiful right now,
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but maybe it's collecting data that it shouldn't be giving somewhere else.
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Is that part of what you're meaning or is that something else?
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No, that's exactly the point, Andrew. That's exactly the point.
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The point is, is that while we wouldn't do it, but we would empower other entities,
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the attorney general or another separate agency is that, you know,
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I'll just give you an example of healthcare insurance and bias in healthcare insurance.
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So if you have an artificial intelligence model that makes decisions as to the
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kinds of healthcare you should get, that model is trained.
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In other words, that model is fed information.
00:17:23.704 --> 00:17:28.644
And that information, depending upon where it comes from, could have a really.
00:17:29.384 --> 00:17:31.164
Horrible outcome for an individual.
00:17:31.764 --> 00:17:34.664
So, for example, it could say, hey, listen, you know what? You're too old.
00:17:34.844 --> 00:17:38.084
You know, we're not going to spend money on you.
00:17:38.144 --> 00:17:41.984
We're not going to spend money on you because you're too old or because,
00:17:42.144 --> 00:17:49.004
you know, you may have a preexisting proclivity to a certain disease or you may...
00:17:49.553 --> 00:17:54.533
Something that's just too expensive to deal with. And so we want to know,
00:17:54.633 --> 00:17:58.473
we want those models to be transparent so we know what the biases are that exist.
00:17:59.053 --> 00:18:03.873
In hiring, we don't mind if a model has a bias towards intelligence.
00:18:03.873 --> 00:18:05.633
We want to hire intelligent people.
00:18:05.773 --> 00:18:13.553
What we do mind is if the model has a bias, for example, against protected classes, against women.
00:18:13.713 --> 00:18:19.493
There's sort of a famous example of where, um, a model was created to figure
00:18:19.493 --> 00:18:23.533
out who the, who, uh, a large company should hire as engineers.
00:18:24.313 --> 00:18:28.913
And, you know, the, the basically it was trained, it was fed information about
00:18:28.913 --> 00:18:30.793
who was successful as engineers.
00:18:30.953 --> 00:18:34.973
Well, it comes out that they should only hire sort of, you know, uh, white males.
00:18:35.193 --> 00:18:39.633
Well, the reason that that solution was derived is because,
00:18:40.733 --> 00:18:43.573
the uh for the vast majority of the time that
00:18:43.573 --> 00:18:46.573
engineers were you know doing their engineering it
00:18:46.573 --> 00:18:49.913
was white white males that's right that's right yeah so uh
00:18:49.913 --> 00:18:53.193
anyway another long-winded answer but
00:18:53.193 --> 00:18:55.973
this is a complicated subject well it is a complicated subject and the
00:18:55.973 --> 00:18:58.713
thing is is ai is so prevalent in our lives right
00:18:58.713 --> 00:19:01.333
now it is everywhere you know it's in your cars i mean it's
00:19:01.333 --> 00:19:04.693
been around for a long time it's just it's just like you said advanced
00:19:04.693 --> 00:19:07.773
to a whole different extreme is started with little traffic lights
00:19:07.773 --> 00:19:11.133
when it sequences that's sort of like an ai isn't it so i
00:19:11.133 --> 00:19:14.233
mean it's rare everywhere and we talk about it and everybody's saying oh yeah
00:19:14.233 --> 00:19:19.253
it's great it's great it's great but which is however we do have to be protected
00:19:19.253 --> 00:19:23.173
from these things as well just like the internet the black web and things out
00:19:23.173 --> 00:19:26.433
the dark web sorry all things like this it's all part of it so i don't most
00:19:26.433 --> 00:19:30.053
people don't know that when you're driving your car that the manufacturer if you've got a new car,
00:19:30.233 --> 00:19:32.713
a manufacturer is collecting all that information. One of a cent.
00:19:32.933 --> 00:19:38.873
And may use that information, may sell that information to insurance companies.
00:19:41.413 --> 00:19:46.253
And it's important that we allow for research, but it's also important that
00:19:46.253 --> 00:19:47.653
we protect our own privacy.
00:19:48.033 --> 00:19:54.193
So if, for example, where I travel, if that's used to figure out models for
00:19:54.193 --> 00:19:57.333
safe driving, that's one thing. If that's used to, for example...
00:19:58.087 --> 00:20:02.167
Figure out, you know, how often I go to the grocery store. That's not so good. No. Right.
00:20:02.527 --> 00:20:06.567
And I'll be honest, I think it's part of a military background,
00:20:06.567 --> 00:20:14.487
but when I'm driving my electric car, I do wonder now and again is imagine a
00:20:14.487 --> 00:20:15.627
quick terrorist attack.
00:20:15.827 --> 00:20:19.707
You could just close down everybody. You'd log in and you could close all these cars down.
00:20:19.847 --> 00:20:26.527
So if we were all electric and we weren't protected, we'd come to a standstill very, very quickly.
00:20:26.687 --> 00:20:33.967
So that does cross my mind. No, I hadn't thought of that, but that's the reality, sure.
00:20:34.227 --> 00:20:38.227
And that's why you're looking into, that's why we have these governing parties
00:20:38.227 --> 00:20:41.407
doing that. Right, you could potentially shut down air traffic.
00:20:42.427 --> 00:20:47.807
Imagine how crazy that is. And that's why we really do have to pay attention
00:20:47.807 --> 00:20:50.907
and not just go with all the fluffy, beautiful stuff.
00:20:51.087 --> 00:20:55.887
And that's the issue with, for example, TikTok being owned by a Chinese entity.
00:20:55.927 --> 00:21:02.727
Right. Is that if everybody who's using TikTok, if everything in their phone
00:21:02.727 --> 00:21:06.847
basically is now accessible to a foreign entity, that's very dangerous.
00:21:07.167 --> 00:21:11.147
It can be. It really can't. And even if they were a friendly country,
00:21:11.627 --> 00:21:12.727
you still don't know what.
00:21:12.887 --> 00:21:15.707
It's like people. We get on today, we might not get in tomorrow.
00:21:15.887 --> 00:21:19.447
And it's the same with countries or anyone else, right? So we just have to be
00:21:19.447 --> 00:21:20.647
a little bit more cautious about that.
00:21:21.647 --> 00:21:25.227
You're right. Even if it's used for a non-nefarious purpose.
00:21:25.227 --> 00:21:28.427
So, you know, just for advertising, do I want all this advertising?
00:21:28.727 --> 00:21:29.627
Exactly. I don't want all that
00:21:29.627 --> 00:21:32.307
advertising. How many text messages we get these days is just rubbish.
00:21:32.747 --> 00:21:36.447
Now you touched on something there a little bit, and I'd love to be able to
00:21:36.447 --> 00:21:40.287
pull that up because it's a big deal right now is insurance in California.
00:21:40.687 --> 00:21:44.387
You know, whether you're looking for car insurance, some companies won't insure
00:21:44.387 --> 00:21:47.407
you right now if you're in California or they want all the money up front.
00:21:47.547 --> 00:21:52.747
I just had to go for that. We had to pay, I think, $3,800 up front for our insurance,
00:21:52.907 --> 00:21:54.707
which is very hard just to quick do that.
00:21:55.333 --> 00:21:59.173
Not, it's a, it's a, it's an American problem maybe, or is it California?
00:21:59.353 --> 00:22:01.293
I don't know, but what does the Senate look at it?
00:22:02.413 --> 00:22:08.313
No, this is, this is Andrew, a very important problem, very important issue
00:22:08.313 --> 00:22:10.073
and a very complex issue.
00:22:10.333 --> 00:22:14.393
You know, people in California now aren't able to get adequate homeowners insurance.
00:22:14.993 --> 00:22:18.093
And that's not just because of the fires in Los Angeles.
00:22:18.413 --> 00:22:25.693
It's, it's a longstanding issue. And we, in 1996,
00:22:26.513 --> 00:22:30.653
passed an initiative in California that empowered the insurance commissioner
00:22:30.653 --> 00:22:35.553
to regulate rates and regulate the operations in some ways of insurance carriers.
00:22:35.893 --> 00:22:41.733
And so, believe it or not, at least our homeowners' insurance costs less than
00:22:41.733 --> 00:22:46.613
other places in the country based on property values and that kind of thing.
00:22:47.213 --> 00:22:50.533
Insurance carriers are saying, hey, look, if you don't let our rates float,
00:22:50.733 --> 00:22:51.573
we're not going to insure.
00:22:52.953 --> 00:22:57.013
Insurance companies are in the business of making money. That's what they do,
00:22:57.133 --> 00:22:59.893
and no problem with that.
00:23:00.853 --> 00:23:05.533
And they say, look, you've got to let our rates float. And the regulators are
00:23:05.533 --> 00:23:09.653
saying, okay, some profit is certainly fine, but in essence,
00:23:09.813 --> 00:23:11.553
greed is not going to be countenanced.
00:23:11.873 --> 00:23:15.053
I don't know where you draw the line. But clearly, in my view,
00:23:15.313 --> 00:23:20.733
clearly the market, we need to let the market work to some degree because to
00:23:20.733 --> 00:23:25.073
the extent the insurance carriers are pulling out of the state and individuals
00:23:25.073 --> 00:23:26.733
are only left with a fair plan,
00:23:26.813 --> 00:23:31.293
the fair plan is not adequate for many homeowners.
00:23:32.173 --> 00:23:37.993
That's a problem. So we need to adjust it so that market forces have,
00:23:38.133 --> 00:23:39.953
in my view, a greater impact on,
00:23:40.587 --> 00:23:45.507
on how we regulate insurance. Now on that point, you know, it's,
00:23:45.547 --> 00:23:50.647
it's a lot of, it's a lot of, um, it might not be actual physical pressure,
00:23:50.787 --> 00:23:52.587
but it's sort of pressure on an individual.
00:23:52.587 --> 00:23:59.767
So as a Senator, how do you make sure that you might not be enforcing something
00:23:59.767 --> 00:24:03.547
that's over-regulating or even under-regulating for that matter?
00:24:03.607 --> 00:24:07.607
Yeah, that's a great, that's a question that we deal with on a daily basis.
00:24:07.947 --> 00:24:14.507
You know, um, so if you, if you create too many regulations,
00:24:14.947 --> 00:24:19.347
you, you basically, you know, housing construction is a good example.
00:24:19.447 --> 00:24:23.347
If you create too many hurdles, too many regulations, you inhibit the market
00:24:23.347 --> 00:24:27.987
to such a degree that either it becomes so expensive that it's unaffordable
00:24:27.987 --> 00:24:31.367
for most folks or people just don't build here.
00:24:31.687 --> 00:24:35.207
I'd rather build in Nevada. I'd rather build somewhere else.
00:24:35.907 --> 00:24:43.007
So trying to thread that needle as to what is reasonable and protects our communities
00:24:43.007 --> 00:24:49.827
versus what just becomes an obstacle or just a revenue generator.
00:24:50.007 --> 00:24:53.107
So for example, if someone's going to build in your neighborhood,
00:24:53.467 --> 00:24:56.487
you want your city council to say, wait a minute, wait a minute,
00:24:56.487 --> 00:25:01.687
You can't build an eight-story structure next to my two-story house.
00:25:01.847 --> 00:25:05.367
Right. I don't want you to be able to build an eight-story. I want the city
00:25:05.367 --> 00:25:09.187
council to say, no, no, no, you can't build an eight-story structure.
00:25:11.027 --> 00:25:14.607
That's an obvious example. Sure. But it's not an obvious example where someone
00:25:14.607 --> 00:25:18.747
says, you know, all I want to do is I want to add another, you know,
00:25:19.387 --> 00:25:25.007
800 square feet to my house, and it takes three years to get through city council permitting.
00:25:26.147 --> 00:25:31.467
Then we've over-regulated. And so, I think we're doing an assessment right now.
00:25:31.947 --> 00:25:38.727
One of the outcomes of the fires in LA is, what do we really need?
00:25:38.847 --> 00:25:43.087
What do we need in terms of CEQA? CEQA stands for the California Environmental Quality Act.
00:25:44.807 --> 00:25:49.747
It's well-intentioned. It's to say, When you're proposing a project,
00:25:49.767 --> 00:25:52.507
you've got to figure out what the impact is on your neighbors,
00:25:52.707 --> 00:25:55.967
what the impact is on traffic, what the impact is on the community.
00:25:56.347 --> 00:26:00.987
That's a good idea. When it becomes so oppressive that you no longer can build
00:26:00.987 --> 00:26:03.367
anything, then it needs to be scaled back.
00:26:03.467 --> 00:26:06.007
And I think we're doing a reevaluation of all that right now.
00:26:06.227 --> 00:26:08.607
Yeah, there's going to be a lot of that going on, I think.
00:26:09.007 --> 00:26:12.667
I only watched on the news yesterday in Santa Monica. They were talking about
00:26:12.667 --> 00:26:16.647
on the front where all the water line is. A lot of those homes were built.
00:26:17.187 --> 00:26:21.607
50s and 60s so they have their own uh uh septic
00:26:21.607 --> 00:26:24.447
tanks and everything well we don't even allow
00:26:24.447 --> 00:26:27.547
that anymore so they're not going to be able to just do that system
00:26:27.547 --> 00:26:30.327
anymore and then of course they have to get rid of that so it doesn't wash into
00:26:30.327 --> 00:26:33.087
the sea like there's a right and you don't want
00:26:33.087 --> 00:26:35.987
septic tanks washing into the sea not really not really
00:26:35.987 --> 00:26:38.687
but you also by the sort of
00:26:38.687 --> 00:26:42.127
the flip side of that coin is you also don't
00:26:42.127 --> 00:26:44.947
want to hamstring those property owners so that they
00:26:44.947 --> 00:26:48.067
basically can't do anything forever and it's gone it's just
00:26:48.067 --> 00:26:50.747
just one to look at right no they have to be
00:26:50.747 --> 00:26:53.567
able to adjust so that you have whatever you know
00:26:53.567 --> 00:26:56.767
you connect to the source system or something like that um but
00:26:56.767 --> 00:26:59.527
if you make it so onerous and so oppressive that it
00:26:59.527 --> 00:27:02.367
becomes impossible or impractical to do
00:27:02.367 --> 00:27:07.187
then you've you know you've you've taken that housing off the market you've
00:27:07.187 --> 00:27:12.327
you've harmed those homeowners and so striking that balance between not having
00:27:12.327 --> 00:27:20.087
a septic tank sort of openly floating around on the beach and making sure that, you know,
00:27:20.207 --> 00:27:22.667
people have an alternative, which is to connect the source system.
00:27:24.207 --> 00:27:27.267
That's our job. And it's hard. It's hard to figure out where you draw the line.
00:27:27.407 --> 00:27:30.887
And different people draw that line different places. That's true. That's very true.
00:27:31.107 --> 00:27:37.867
I know that you did a few things regarding, you know, if folks were involved
00:27:37.867 --> 00:27:41.847
with the January 6th attack, that they shouldn't be able to join in the National
00:27:41.847 --> 00:27:43.867
Guard, which to be honest, I think, oh, it makes sense.
00:27:44.027 --> 00:27:49.347
The bill that actually was introduced last year is now signed into law,
00:27:49.527 --> 00:27:58.247
simply says, look, if you belong to an organization that is actively advocating
00:27:58.247 --> 00:28:02.307
and organizing to overthrow either the state government or the federal government,
00:28:02.507 --> 00:28:04.267
is that you shouldn't be in our National Guard.
00:28:06.469 --> 00:28:10.089
We, the taxpayers, shouldn't be training you, Andrew, you know this,
00:28:10.189 --> 00:28:13.589
you were in the military, shouldn't be training you to be able to use lethal
00:28:13.589 --> 00:28:19.009
force so that you can more effectively overthrow your government.
00:28:19.189 --> 00:28:25.449
And so the law simply says that if you are a member of a group that is actively
00:28:25.449 --> 00:28:30.009
advocating and organizing to do those things, you can't be in the National Guard.
00:28:30.189 --> 00:28:35.789
And it's very simple. So, for example, if and if you were part of and it works
00:28:35.789 --> 00:28:40.829
on the right or the left, if you're part of Antifa and you're advocating the
00:28:40.829 --> 00:28:43.049
overthrow of the state or federal government,
00:28:43.309 --> 00:28:45.249
you know, you shouldn't be in the National Guard.
00:28:45.369 --> 00:28:50.029
We shouldn't teach you how to use an M4. We shouldn't teach you how to basically use a mortar.
00:28:50.029 --> 00:28:54.629
Um, and, and on the right, if you're, if you're a member of,
00:28:54.729 --> 00:28:58.349
for example, the Proud Boys who advocates the overthrow of the government,
00:28:58.529 --> 00:29:03.689
um, or is involved in insurrection, then we shouldn't train you to,
00:29:04.409 --> 00:29:06.649
um, again, be able to do that more effectively.
00:29:06.949 --> 00:29:10.209
Now, um, not, not being in the, uh.
00:29:11.129 --> 00:29:14.029
Um, American military myself, I wouldn't know the answer to this question,
00:29:14.149 --> 00:29:20.509
but I do know back home when I was joining the army, they did actually do checks
00:29:20.509 --> 00:29:23.329
right through into great, great grandparents of an individual.
00:29:23.529 --> 00:29:26.229
Is that something they actually document here in America?
00:29:26.569 --> 00:29:31.129
So then this is why things like this have to happen now because they don't do
00:29:31.129 --> 00:29:33.369
those checks themselves because that's what used to happen back then.
00:29:33.569 --> 00:29:39.369
No, there's no check. I mean, to get a security clearance, then depending upon
00:29:39.369 --> 00:29:44.389
the level of security clearance that they will do an investigation as to, you know,
00:29:44.529 --> 00:29:48.689
your background and, and, you know, in some circumstances your family's background also.
00:29:48.849 --> 00:29:52.989
So really you get more, you get more background if you're going through, uh,
00:29:53.821 --> 00:29:57.101
becoming uh legally uh able
00:29:57.101 --> 00:30:00.021
to stay here in america than you actually do if you
00:30:00.021 --> 00:30:02.761
join the military that's that's absolutely true oh well
00:30:02.761 --> 00:30:05.421
that maybe stocks should be changed right a little
00:30:05.421 --> 00:30:09.741
bit that'll be a good idea okay all right that's good so i i know i remember
00:30:09.741 --> 00:30:14.961
last time we came when you when you were on our show it was very different then
00:30:14.961 --> 00:30:19.341
we're on a tiny table we'd only just moved in um but one of the big things that
00:30:19.341 --> 00:30:23.781
we discussed which was a big part of what you were trying to do is you were
00:30:23.781 --> 00:30:25.021
talking about pheninol.
00:30:25.221 --> 00:30:29.081
You were talking about there was a story that it started from this lady and
00:30:29.081 --> 00:30:30.981
what had happened to her. And I think it's Prop 36.
00:30:31.581 --> 00:30:35.301
Would you like to elaborate and tell us more what's going on with all that now?
00:30:36.781 --> 00:30:42.121
Yes. I mean, my background is in public safety and law enforcement as a federal prosecutor.
00:30:42.421 --> 00:30:46.201
And so those issues are near and dear to my heart. And I like to think I have
00:30:46.201 --> 00:30:48.801
some experience and expertise in that area as well.
00:30:49.161 --> 00:30:52.761
So last time I was on, I was talking about a bill called Alexandra's Law.
00:30:52.881 --> 00:30:57.221
And that was a bill, a very, very simple bill that said, if you distributed
00:30:57.221 --> 00:30:58.741
fentanyl, whether you knew it or not.
00:30:58.881 --> 00:31:03.181
So for example, if you were distributing Percocet and was laced with fentanyl
00:31:03.181 --> 00:31:06.881
and you were arrested and convicted, the judge would tell you,
00:31:07.001 --> 00:31:10.321
hey, Umberg, you sold fentanyl.
00:31:10.581 --> 00:31:13.861
You may not have known you sold fentanyl, but you did it. If you do it again
00:31:13.861 --> 00:31:17.021
and someone dies, then you could be charged with a homicide.
00:31:17.201 --> 00:31:21.001
It's exactly the same thing that happens with a drunk driving conviction.
00:31:21.241 --> 00:31:24.201
So, for example, if you're convicted of drunk driving, judge says to you,
00:31:24.301 --> 00:31:30.081
hey, you were driving a car while you were drunk, while you were under the influence
00:31:30.081 --> 00:31:33.141
of alcohol, and that's very, very dangerous.
00:31:33.281 --> 00:31:35.841
And if you do that again, I'm telling you right now, if you do that again and
00:31:35.841 --> 00:31:38.321
you kill somebody, you could be charged with a homicide. It's the same sort
00:31:38.321 --> 00:31:40.941
of thing, and it's the same logic as well.
00:31:41.561 --> 00:31:44.741
Well, that law never became law. That bill never became law.
00:31:44.821 --> 00:31:46.841
Very frustrating. So, um.
00:31:47.835 --> 00:31:52.535
That part of that law, Alexander's law, was incorporated into Proposition 36.
00:31:52.855 --> 00:31:56.055
So that's now the law. It passed overwhelmingly in November.
00:31:56.835 --> 00:32:00.835
I think Proposition 36 is a good thing.
00:32:01.015 --> 00:32:09.235
It also says, look, if you're convicted twice, a possession of certain narcotics,
00:32:09.395 --> 00:32:15.315
the third time you're arrested, it's now a felony, but you can go to treatment.
00:32:15.315 --> 00:32:20.315
And if you go to treatment then, and you complete treatment successfully, you have no conviction.
00:32:21.015 --> 00:32:24.715
Your slate is wiped clean. You go on with your life.
00:32:24.875 --> 00:32:30.495
And I'm a firm believer in the treatment courts, that kind of thing,
00:32:30.615 --> 00:32:35.495
that folks who have substance abuse disorder need to be treated.
00:32:35.535 --> 00:32:37.255
So that's part of that bill as well.
00:32:37.395 --> 00:32:40.915
And then also for retail theft, the other part of the bill is retail theft.
00:32:41.835 --> 00:32:48.775
We've got an issue in California with retail theft, and the previous law basically
00:32:48.775 --> 00:32:55.375
allowed you to steal up to $950 a day, and it would remain a misdemeanor.
00:32:55.555 --> 00:33:01.915
Now, if you collectively steal over $950, that becomes a felony.
00:33:02.235 --> 00:33:05.335
So, it's tallied up, basically. Yes, exactly right. That makes sense.
00:33:05.575 --> 00:33:08.675
Exactly right. Talking about that, obviously, you're right.
00:33:08.675 --> 00:33:11.695
Uh there has been a bit of an increase to
00:33:11.695 --> 00:33:14.835
to uh people stealing from
00:33:14.835 --> 00:33:18.415
stores even we see it on tv a lot right is
00:33:18.415 --> 00:33:21.555
there is there anything else that's happening or changing
00:33:21.555 --> 00:33:29.515
to to deter or or try and stop uh well i think prop 36 um and we're in orange
00:33:29.515 --> 00:33:33.455
county and i know the district attorney totally different todd spitzer is is
00:33:33.455 --> 00:33:38.155
is vigorously enforcing uh proposition 36 so i think that does I think we've
00:33:38.155 --> 00:33:40.455
seen crime, in fact, decrease.
00:33:42.315 --> 00:33:43.455
I think that,
00:33:44.198 --> 00:33:50.878
My view is that the most important way to deter crime is, you know,
00:33:51.018 --> 00:33:54.398
preventative with education and making sure people have opportunity and making
00:33:54.398 --> 00:33:59.338
sure people know and understand, you know, that there are opportunities available to them.
00:33:59.438 --> 00:34:05.138
And we resource those opportunities so that they're not in an environment where
00:34:05.138 --> 00:34:08.098
they feel they need to commit crimes to sustain themselves.
00:34:08.098 --> 00:34:12.978
Number one, with drug abuse, that we do the best we can to prevent folks from
00:34:12.978 --> 00:34:19.178
engaging in addictive behaviors with drugs. But if they do, that we treat them.
00:34:20.158 --> 00:34:29.378
I think that both in law enforcement and in the legislature,
00:34:29.378 --> 00:34:32.578
folks are recognizing, understanding that.
00:34:33.058 --> 00:34:40.878
But when you commit a crime or when you first start to engage in illegal drug
00:34:40.878 --> 00:34:43.078
use, we need to take action.
00:34:43.258 --> 00:34:47.158
We can't just turn away. We can't just, if it's a shoplift, you know,
00:34:47.258 --> 00:34:51.398
we can't just say, okay, you know, it's only $300, so we're not going to do anything.
00:34:51.978 --> 00:34:55.258
If you're using heroin, we can't just turn away and just say,
00:34:55.338 --> 00:34:57.538
hey, listen, you know, who cares?
00:34:57.918 --> 00:35:06.598
Right. We have to intervene earlier on and in a way that is more profound with
00:35:06.598 --> 00:35:08.698
both carrots and sticks.
00:35:09.378 --> 00:35:12.198
Well, it has such a knock-on effect, though, doesn't it?
00:35:12.478 --> 00:35:16.478
Look at San Francisco, for example. A lot of corporations have sort of moved
00:35:16.478 --> 00:35:19.398
away because of the troubles they were having.
00:35:19.618 --> 00:35:23.618
And that does have a huge impact on our economy.
00:35:23.978 --> 00:35:27.578
And then the residents who live there, I mean, it's such a knock-on effect.
00:35:27.578 --> 00:35:29.538
And it starts from one area, doesn't it? Sure.
00:35:30.158 --> 00:35:33.078
And it's true of Orange County too. Yeah. Right.
00:35:33.958 --> 00:35:37.378
100%. I mean, it's the same everywhere. Same problem. Exactly right.
00:35:37.758 --> 00:35:43.878
And then that increases the homeless folks. Yep. And that also is an impediment to...
00:35:44.532 --> 00:35:50.372
The quality of life, obviously, with a homeless person, but also those who were around that area.
00:35:51.212 --> 00:35:55.992
So it just keeps knocking on. So it's such a huge impact.
00:35:56.212 --> 00:35:59.692
So thank you for fighting so hard on that one. Appreciate it.
00:36:00.132 --> 00:36:03.512
So it sort of ties in when you're talking about fentanyl. We're not going to
00:36:03.512 --> 00:36:07.392
go on to all the, you know, federal stuff with the border control,
00:36:07.432 --> 00:36:11.412
but it sort of leaks into the border because obviously that's where these things happen.
00:36:11.412 --> 00:36:16.492
And we had Radiant Futures on a couple of weeks ago because they were talking
00:36:16.492 --> 00:36:24.492
about, you know, people being sort of like swapped into sort of slavery in a way.
00:36:24.692 --> 00:36:28.512
And they were, you know, whether it was internal or external from incoming the border.
00:36:28.952 --> 00:36:35.032
What sort of things are we able to increase or what's going on with that control
00:36:35.032 --> 00:36:40.872
of over checking that drugs and things like that aren't coming over into the country?
00:36:42.352 --> 00:36:45.452
At home grown, should I say, as well, because they cook it at home too,
00:36:45.612 --> 00:36:50.232
right? No, that's right. Methamphetamine is made right here in our neighborhoods, yes.
00:36:51.752 --> 00:36:57.012
The most effective way to deal with supply issues, in other words,
00:36:57.112 --> 00:37:01.052
drugs coming to our country or drugs being manufactured here, is through intel.
00:37:02.192 --> 00:37:06.892
Physical barriers, they may have some purpose, but using...
00:37:07.776 --> 00:37:12.436
Intelligence, whether it's human intelligence, you know, human sources to let
00:37:12.436 --> 00:37:17.136
law enforcement know where things are being done, made, where chemicals are coming from.
00:37:18.176 --> 00:37:23.756
Electronic intelligence, you know, you can detect all sorts of things electronically.
00:37:23.936 --> 00:37:30.876
And then to the extent it is on foreign soil is having our foreign partners
00:37:30.876 --> 00:37:35.896
cooperate in addressing that, eradicating it.
00:37:35.896 --> 00:37:40.656
And also, so there's human intelligence, there's electronic intelligence,
00:37:40.836 --> 00:37:45.616
there's also signal intelligence where you're picking up communications among folks.
00:37:45.756 --> 00:37:49.396
And those are the most effective ways. Those are really the most effective ways
00:37:49.396 --> 00:37:52.376
of addressing the supply issue.
00:37:52.816 --> 00:37:57.956
Supply issue only exists because of the demand issue.
00:37:58.756 --> 00:38:03.556
That the only reason that there's a market for fentanyl, cocaine,
00:38:03.756 --> 00:38:06.176
heroin, whatever, in the United States is because people are using.
00:38:06.456 --> 00:38:10.336
And so, I mean, it's a chicken and egg thing.
00:38:10.476 --> 00:38:17.296
If we reduce demand here in the United States, then the supply will diminish
00:38:17.296 --> 00:38:23.816
in our neighboring countries and also here in the United States.
00:38:23.816 --> 00:38:27.456
And that would be a great benefit to places like Mexico. So the Mexican government
00:38:27.456 --> 00:38:30.396
doesn't want fentanyl labs. They don't want meth labs.
00:38:30.556 --> 00:38:33.416
They don't want cocaine production or transport.
00:38:35.036 --> 00:38:39.076
I can see why Prop 36 sort of plays a big role in that too.
00:38:39.396 --> 00:38:42.156
Because, you know, when you're saying we want to help people who are in this
00:38:42.156 --> 00:38:44.336
trying to get them off, go through rehab and all the rest of it,
00:38:44.456 --> 00:38:47.716
sort of all ties in very well together, doesn't it? Indeed.
00:38:48.836 --> 00:38:55.236
I mean, drugs require prevention. They require treatment. They require consequences also.
00:38:56.556 --> 00:38:59.736
So we're at a point now, because I could talk to you forever.
00:39:00.236 --> 00:39:03.676
You're a fascinating individual, but I know you have a lot to do.
00:39:04.296 --> 00:39:08.136
And unfortunately, I have to go back to work as well. But we got to the point
00:39:08.136 --> 00:39:11.596
where there could have been something we missed, if there's something important
00:39:11.596 --> 00:39:15.056
that you would like to share or maybe have a little discussion about.
00:39:15.196 --> 00:39:17.876
And I just wanted to give you that time if there is something.
00:39:19.096 --> 00:39:23.316
So, you know, one of the, in terms of where I'm working in public safety,
00:39:23.536 --> 00:39:28.716
I spend a lot of time and effort and energy on what we call collaborative courts.
00:39:28.956 --> 00:39:33.196
And those are alternative courts, whether it's for veterans or mentally ill
00:39:33.196 --> 00:39:35.316
or homeless or for drugs.
00:39:36.096 --> 00:39:38.076
And the.
00:39:39.797 --> 00:39:43.337
Orange County's done a very good job with what we call our collaborative courts.
00:39:43.577 --> 00:39:47.777
But one of the things I'm trying to do is trying to create standards throughout
00:39:47.777 --> 00:39:54.017
the state so that our collaborative courts around the state are employing best practices.
00:39:54.537 --> 00:39:59.597
And those are all long-term public safety issues and solutions.
00:39:59.877 --> 00:40:05.057
And do those wrap into, I remember, I think it was the Orange County supervisor,
00:40:05.137 --> 00:40:07.557
Doug Chaffey, who had mentioned to me a long time ago.
00:40:07.557 --> 00:40:13.857
So is that to do with this, they were trying to look at when people come into court.
00:40:14.717 --> 00:40:19.417
If you, a bit like your Prop 36, if you go through care and attention,
00:40:19.557 --> 00:40:23.457
go through help and what have you, eventually you might extinguish your record.
00:40:23.597 --> 00:40:24.797
Is that part of this? No, that's exactly right.
00:40:24.977 --> 00:40:29.577
Oh, okay, okay. So let's just take shoplifting as an example. As an example, okay.
00:40:29.777 --> 00:40:32.657
So you get arrested for shoplifting. Right.
00:40:32.897 --> 00:40:36.557
And judge says, look, it looks like you've got a substance abuse problem.
00:40:36.557 --> 00:40:40.697
You've obviously got a problem, a criminal problem here. You've shoplifted.
00:40:41.337 --> 00:40:45.077
But if you follow this rigorous course of action, it needs to be rigorous.
00:40:45.357 --> 00:40:48.437
You know, you do drug testing. You engage in drug treatment.
00:40:49.077 --> 00:40:54.217
You get your GED or you work to make sure that you have a job.
00:40:54.297 --> 00:40:56.617
You do all those things, and we're going to hold you accountable.
00:40:56.817 --> 00:40:59.517
We're going to require you to demonstrate this once a month.
00:40:59.597 --> 00:41:02.277
We're going to require you to be drug tested. And you do that for a year.
00:41:02.677 --> 00:41:05.817
Then at the end of the year, if you've been drug free and you've been crime
00:41:05.817 --> 00:41:09.617
free and you've all, you're on the right direction, on the right trajectory,
00:41:09.857 --> 00:41:13.217
you're getting your education or you're getting a job, then you have no conviction
00:41:13.217 --> 00:41:14.717
and you can start over in life.
00:41:15.237 --> 00:41:19.537
One of the challenges is if you can't start over, then it's a continuing cycle.
00:41:19.737 --> 00:41:22.737
So if you, you know, if you've got a conviction, you can't get a job.
00:41:23.517 --> 00:41:26.097
What are you going to do? That's exactly right. That's amazing.
00:41:26.357 --> 00:41:29.437
That is a lot of commitment also, excuse me, for the individual.
00:41:29.437 --> 00:41:32.957
It's a lot of commitment for the individual, and it's a lot of commitment for
00:41:32.957 --> 00:41:37.277
the judge and the support team.
00:41:38.474 --> 00:41:42.094
You know, provides the infrastructure for the collaborative courts.
00:41:42.274 --> 00:41:45.634
Well, there's a lot of collaboration there because then you've also got other
00:41:45.634 --> 00:41:51.414
agencies that are helping all this other, then finding jobs and training maybe for different jobs.
00:41:51.554 --> 00:41:54.014
There's a huge amount of folks there.
00:41:54.574 --> 00:41:57.194
Behavioral health folks, all those folks. Yeah, there's a lot.
00:41:57.474 --> 00:42:00.054
That's amazing. So congratulations again to Andrew.
00:42:00.394 --> 00:42:03.674
You know, you're going to be a citizen here. I'm very proud of you.
00:42:03.854 --> 00:42:06.254
Yeah, thank you very much. We'll see. You've got to pass the test.
00:42:06.254 --> 00:42:09.794
So there's a little written test. And I think there's a verbal test.
00:42:10.254 --> 00:42:13.034
I often joke- Are you going to bring your daughter to the swearing-in?
00:42:14.114 --> 00:42:18.134
She's probably going to be at school. I don't want to get into trouble for not
00:42:18.134 --> 00:42:19.234
having her attending school.
00:42:19.434 --> 00:42:22.894
But that's part of being a responsible parent, right?
00:42:23.794 --> 00:42:27.194
But my wife said she's not going to go, but she is. She's just messing with me.
00:42:27.314 --> 00:42:30.314
But as I often joke with the city manager here in Buono Park,
00:42:30.634 --> 00:42:33.394
is I always say, well, when we're having a discussion, I'll say,
00:42:33.454 --> 00:42:36.094
yeah, but that's because you speak American. And I'll go, why do you always
00:42:36.094 --> 00:42:38.854
say that we talk American? I'll say, because I speak English.
00:42:39.174 --> 00:42:43.014
But now I might not be able to use that joke anymore. Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:42:43.534 --> 00:42:45.854
Well, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity to hang out here with you.
00:42:46.014 --> 00:42:50.434
So thank you again, Tom, for this riveting conversation. I could honestly be
00:42:50.434 --> 00:42:52.814
here all day, but I know we've got places to go.
00:42:53.014 --> 00:42:55.434
And thank you, listeners, for tuning in to Chamber Talk.
00:42:56.054 --> 00:42:59.674
Until next time, please stay inspired and connected.
00:42:59.854 --> 00:43:05.134
And for more interviews, visit chambertalk.podbean.com. or you can always head
00:43:05.134 --> 00:43:10.574
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00:43:10.574 --> 00:43:12.474
thank you very much see you again bye bye.