Take #24 | Paul Becker’s Path from Self-Taught Dancer to Award-Winning Director & Choreographer

WEBVTT
00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:10.480
Hi everyone and welcome back to Cauchy Confessions.
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:15.359
I'm your host, Mila Page, and I have a very, very special guest today.
00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:20.399
He is an award-winning director, choreographer, writer, and producer.
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.600
He is currently directing Lego's first live action musical, Heartlake.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:38.479
He is from Victoria, British Columbia, and has built a very impressive career, just to name a few of his credits, including Descendants, Deadpool 2, The Muppets, Once Upon a Time, and many, many more.
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.840
I have none other than Paul Becker on the podcast.
00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:42.640
Welcome, Paul.
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:43.759
I'm happy to be here.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.359
I'm so happy to have you.
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:47.600
You pulled up the Deadpool credit.
00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:51.520
So many to choose from.
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:52.159
I had a lot.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:53.520
You know, I was talking about it today.
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:54.479
I forget.
00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:55.679
I forget.
00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.159
And I was uh I forget a lot of things nowadays.
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:02.399
But uh I've done a lot.
00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:02.880
I'm blessed.
00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.599
I'm blessed to have done a lot, and uh I've learned a lot along the way.
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.439
And now I'm in a place in my life where I'm happy to share that too.
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.120
Uh so it's pretty it's been pretty cool.
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:19.920
Yeah, it's super exciting to reach such a point where now you're able to give back and talk about all the steps you've taken to get where you are.
00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:20.480
Yeah.
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:20.959
Yeah.
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:33.120
I feel like a lot of my creative process has been made by mistakes, and I've learned so much like uh even on a series of unfortunate events.
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.719
I uh I I did a it's if you haven't seen it, it's on Netflix.
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:39.760
Neil Patrick Harris, he's phenomenal in it.
00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:47.439
Um I got to play, I got to I got to play, I got to virtually have a playground to play with.
00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:52.480
And um there was time, and that's not usually a luxury on a film set.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:52.719
Yeah.
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.519
Like time to make mistakes, time to try things.
00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:02.799
And that was really uh a really cool uh thing of Barry Sonnenfeld to set up for me so I could really play.
00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:08.719
And I I feel like some of my best work was made because I was able to play, make mistakes, try things.
00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:16.319
Yeah, but when you're under the gun and you have no time, it's it it's for choreography and for directing for anything.
00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:18.080
Um it's tough.
00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:18.560
Yeah.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:19.439
It's tough.
00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:20.080
Yeah.
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:28.719
Absolutely, because especially with choreography and everything, like the prep time is so important, and when you're just kind of thrown into it with a timestamp on it, it's a little tough.
00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:38.159
I I yeah, it reminds me of I did season one of Riverdale, and I didn't like working on a show.
00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:39.439
And I'll tell you why.
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.639
I I I I did I there was no they didn't give time.
00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:44.000
They didn't give time.
00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:48.240
In fact, I you know some of my one of the videos that went viral.
00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:53.919
I I mean hundreds of millions of views, like these of uh the girls didn't dance off.
00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:58.960
And I feel like it was some of my some of my most slapped together work.
00:02:59.199 --> 00:02:59.599
Wow.
00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.120
No prep time, no rehearsal.
00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:06.080
The poor girls had four hours rehearsal and they had to shoot.
00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:07.759
It was like nothing, and it wasn't fair for them.
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:09.280
It really wasn't fair for them.
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:14.960
Yeah, they weren't like they weren't full-on dancers, they did a good job, but it wasn't fair.
00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.319
And um people loved it, but it it was I'm not proud of it.
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.560
I don't it's not on my demo reel, let's just put it that way.
00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:31.919
Yeah, and um I remember a time where I went into the office, I went into the production office and said, I need a skeleton crew for this episode.
00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:36.560
And I always demand a skeleton crew now, and I I get it and I make it work.
00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:49.360
But I said, I need a skeleton crew for this episode, and the producer said, I'm not naming names, but one of the producers, it wasn't one of the main ones, it was uh somebody who's no longer it wasn't yeah, I don't know if she's on the show anymore.
00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:50.400
The show's not on anymore.
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:50.960
Yeah, whatever.
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:51.599
I can say this.
00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:57.199
Uh and she said, Yeah, we just want you to uh do a few show the show them a few dance moves.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.080
And I said, show them a few dance moves.
00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:06.960
I said, Oh, you don't need a choreographer, you need a dance instructor.
00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:14.479
And the and I said, So let me tell you what, I'm gonna give Arthur Murray a call down the street, and I'm gonna get you guys a good dance instructor.
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:20.319
And and the the director was like, no, Paul, no, and the 80 was like, no, and then I said, Okay, well, give me the floor for a second.
00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:22.959
Is the writer and the writer was there, I said, What did you write for this scene?
00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:28.639
And he's like, Josie and the pussy cat sing and dance on the roof or whatever.
00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:30.879
And I said, So a sentence.
00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:33.839
A sentence, does anyone know what the word choreographer means?
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:34.800
And nobody put their hand up.
00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:37.680
I said it's comes from Greek, it means dance writer.
00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:46.319
So it's my job to take that one sentence and turn that into physical dialogue to tell your story for about two more minutes of music.
00:04:47.040 --> 00:05:01.040
And um I said, last question, and then they're like, I said, I said, would you ever go without a script, without anything written to a rehearsal, and have the actors watch over your shoulder while you're typing all your ideas?
00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:03.120
And he was like, No, that's absurd.
00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:04.079
I said, exactly.
00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.040
Yeah, I'm asking for those same tools in a rehearsal room.
00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:07.600
Totally.
00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:09.519
So I've had to fight those fights.
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:15.519
Uh I've had to fight those fights in order to get what I needed to accomplish my job.
00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:16.000
Yeah.
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.160
Um, so we can do it at a high level and a good in a in a sane level.
00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:21.120
Absolutely.
00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:21.439
Yeah.
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:30.000
Yeah, I think a lot of the time choreography is an afterthought on film sets and when it comes to production, it's like the last thing people think of, but it's often such an important part.
00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:39.600
And like you just talked about things that go viral, like these dance thing, like choreography goes viral from television shows and can draw traction to the show.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.959
So it's such an important part, and you're carrying on that story so much longer than just that one sentence.
00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:51.600
But they don't, when you don't understand dance or you don't come from a back a dance background, it's hard for some people to understand.
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:52.160
Yeah.
00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.199
A lot of times in we're we're educating now.
00:05:55.279 --> 00:06:12.800
A lot of, you know, with with these great shows, like So You Think In Dance and other shows that have been on, a lot of the mainstream uh in the mainstream people are under starting to understand the work that goes into it, but I find myself having to educate a lot of times when when I'm being if I'm being brought onto a project.
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:24.319
But the the the great producers and and directors understand that collaboration, but it's on the smaller projects where I'm having to uh teach a little bit.
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:25.360
Yeah, you know?
00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:26.079
Right.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:30.800
So yeah, but it it's it's always a it's a challenge of the job.
00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.639
Look, one one in a hundred movies needs a choreographer, right?
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.920
Yeah, every movie needs a director, every movie needs actors.
00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:43.360
So it's uh it's a highly, highly competitive field.
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:48.959
Absolutely, but also a field that not a lot of producers have the experience on working around.
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:52.240
So I don't it's not their fault, it's just it's foreign.
00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:52.800
They gotta learn.
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.560
Yeah, it's like you can't blame someone for not knowing what they don't know, you know?
00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:57.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:59.920
So believe me, I don't know a lot.
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.439
I've learned a lot, but there's a lot of things I'm learning.
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:04.399
Totally.
00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:09.279
So take us back all the way back to Paul as a child.
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:13.600
Did you always have a creative mind?
00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:14.959
What were your interests?
00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.439
Yeah, I as a child, I was I was always into art.
00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:20.879
I was always painting or drawing.
00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:21.439
Yeah.
00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:25.279
And I was always making things, I always had a vivid imagination.
00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:35.199
I'd I'd we didn't have a lot of money, but I would make things out of a cardboard box or make things out of a whatever, and I'd build build little worlds for myself.
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:35.839
Even Lego.
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.879
That's why when I got to direct Lego, I was like, what?
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:40.879
Um I would build.
00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:43.360
I would build and I'd create little worlds.
00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:45.279
I'd turn a box into a car.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:47.279
So my imagination was always going.
00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:47.759
Yeah.
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.639
And I was self-taught as a dancer.
00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.519
I didn't really um I didn't have any class.
00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:56.639
I would just watch videos.
00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:08.560
I'd watch like old videos, like Breaking and Beat Street and videos, like just and just like get inspired and teach myself how to dance, really.
00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:09.839
Hip hop.
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:14.639
Um, so that was kind of an inspiration to me watching those videos.
00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:19.759
But um, my mom uh was supportive of that.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:22.240
She was supportive of like me being creative.
00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:29.279
I had five brothers, so and they were all into martial arts and other things, and so was I, but it was a rowdy household.
00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:39.519
Like we would be fighting in the basement and and things, and I would be dancing, you know, and I would be uh so I would always need my quiet time.
00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:48.000
I still do, I still need like to hibernate and focus because my house is wild, yeah.
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:51.200
So yeah, I still find myself having to do that.
00:08:51.519 --> 00:09:02.799
Yeah, especially like your job, like working in entertainment is so demanding that it's it's good to have that quiet time, that space away from it all to kind of like focus and relax.
00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:13.039
Yeah, I put a lot of pressure on uh I I do sometimes put a lot of pressure on myself, like um because I am my own boss, right?
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.519
Yeah, so I gotta set a schedule for myself.
00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:15.840
Right.
00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.679
I'm not waking up and someone's not telling me what to do.
00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:21.120
I'm telling myself what to do.
00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:30.639
So I gotta really stay disciplined for health, for uh if my projects, because I'm juggling other many things, many things that I want to do.
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:39.200
I have my education side, I have my choreography side, I have my directing side, I have my producing side and like original writing side, and my AI side.
00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:40.399
I I'm doing a lot.
00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:40.799
Yeah.
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:58.559
And um it's it's it's a lot of I put this pressure on myself, which is probably unneeded, but um I do um I do set a schedule that is pretty I don't always keep it, but I try.
00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:07.279
And I think that's important for dancers too to know, because a lot of times dancers think I got or you know, I got time on my hands or whatever.
00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:11.679
You need or dancers or actors or whatever, and you got time on your hands because you're not working.
00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:15.840
Um you could be creating stuff for yourself.
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:30.480
I say, like there's there's you can take control of your career if you just start creating things and start to use your imagination and start to write it down and start to build something for yourself.
00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.120
But you don't need much nowadays.
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.120
We kind of got all the tools at our fingertips.
00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:42.879
If you have a phone, if you have some friends, if you have you know, a laptop, that kind of stuff.
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.440
Like, you know, you can you can build some things for yourself.
00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:49.759
So um I was never one to wait, I'm still not one to wait.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:55.440
You know, if I have an idea, I start to write it down, I start to try to see how I can make it happen.
00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:05.600
If it if it and if it's uh if it finds its legs, it has and it has per enough purpose, it'll hopefully see the light of day.
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:06.720
Yeah, right.
00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:11.120
And not like waiting for that opportunity to be handed to you, but creating that opportunity for yourself.
00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:33.120
And it's it's interesting on social media there's all these videos and content being put out on like here are ideas of what you can do do for content, or you should make a video about this, and we consume so much that I've seen people say, like, for once, like stop watching all these like videos telling you what to do and just do it, you know, just like start creating something because we c we're consuming so much now.
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:34.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:36.799
I i yeah, yeah.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.080
The other day I had I was cons I'm always consuming, right?
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:40.720
A little too much.
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:44.559
I don't cons I actually funny thing, I I have not watched a movie in six months.
00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.000
And I have not watched a Netflix anything in six months, and I haven't done that purposely.
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.600
I've just been so busy and I've been trying to create things, yeah.
00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:53.759
Um and trying to launch some things.
00:11:54.080 --> 00:12:01.679
So I I just find myself kind of working until late hours and then I get back home and I'm not watching something.
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:05.759
Um I probably should, because it's kind of like I need to get inspired by other people's work.
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.559
Yeah, I think I need to dedicate some time to do that.
00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:12.000
And I always love going to the movie theater and just like turning off.
00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:13.039
Yeah, me too.
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.600
I go by myself, watch something.
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:16.960
Uh so I need to do that.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:18.320
I need to dedicate that time to that.
00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:18.480
Yeah.
00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:18.960
Yeah.
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:22.000
I get my popcorn, my blue icy, and I'm ready.
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:25.120
Yeah, that's my go-to at the moment.
00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:27.279
You leave your mouse all stained.
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:28.000
Yeah.
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:29.600
So that's the only way to do it.
00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.960
If they don't have the blue icy, it's not gonna the movie's not gonna hit the same.
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.519
I do the cur the uh what's it called?
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:38.480
Chicago mix?
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:38.960
Oh yeah.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.679
The cheese and the caramel corn?
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:43.120
Oh, the popcorn.
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:44.240
That's my jam.
00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:45.279
That's your go-to, yeah.
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:47.919
I could demolish a whole lot of shit.
00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:49.360
Yeah.
00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.639
So we talked about you being a really creative kid.
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:58.240
When did you know you wanted to like really get serious about working in the entertainment industry?
00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.320
When did I know I always wanted to get serious about being in the entertainment industry?
00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:05.600
I think it was like 13, 12, 13, when that my very first dance class.
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.000
I thought, oh wait, this is something cool.
00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.120
This is something interesting.
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:15.919
I followed these two girls into a dance class that worked at my mom's diner, and and they encouraged me to take a class.
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:21.679
It was a hip hop class, and that kind of environment I was around, I realized, oh, there's something here.
00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:23.279
I want to do something like this.
00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.200
So I um I started pursuing it.
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:29.440
Like I started dreaming about it at 13.
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:30.720
I would watch TV.
00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.559
I didn't know it was a job, I just knew it was something cool, something that interested me.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:35.440
Totally.
00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.679
So that and then by 16 I had my first job.
00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:41.679
And it was Ninja Turtles.
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:50.720
And I had aud a guest teacher came into my studio and she called the studio after she left, and she said, I'm holding auditions for Ninja Turtles.
00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:58.960
And I I thought I needed to um choreograph my own solo, but I didn't know how auditions worked.
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:05.840
So I cleared the restaurant, dining the tables and chairs, and I I spent all night choreographing a solo.
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:07.039
It's like three minutes.
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:07.840
It was ridiculous.
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:16.240
I got to the audition, which I drove like I had to take a boat and uh drive for a couple hours to get to the audition by myself.
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.000
My mom didn't even go with me.
00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:24.799
I went by myself, and I got given like an account of eight, and I got the job.
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:27.679
I didn't have to do all that work the night before.
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.240
And then I realized then I was on set, and again, I was by myself.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:33.279
There was no chaperone.
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:34.159
My mom didn't go with me.
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:35.519
I don't know how she got away with that.
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.200
I don't know how I got away with not with being having no chaperone different times.
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:42.000
Yeah.
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:48.000
And um I got a check in the mail like a couple weeks later, and I was like, wait, I'm gonna I got paid.
00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.120
And I still get checks for Ninth Shuttles.
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.600
They're they're small, but I still get them.
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:54.480
I still get them.
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.240
So yeah, that that that kind of opened up, that was a light bulb moment.
00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:59.840
I was like, wait, I want to do this.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:01.440
This is cool, this is fun.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.279
I I was a deer in the headlights, but uh I found it fun.
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.440
And it's like that passion is what took you there.
00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:15.759
Like you're doing it because you love it, and then you happen to get paid for it, and then you're like, all right, I can do what I'm passionate about and get paid for it.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.080
This is this is what I want to do, you know.
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:19.519
I would have done it for free.
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:20.000
Yeah.
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:26.879
I mean, I I do it all the time for my my YouTube channel where I like make musical numbers and stuff like that.
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:28.000
I mean, I'm not getting paid for that.
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:28.799
I love it.
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:30.399
I love what I do.
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:31.840
I love what I do.
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:36.720
I love telling stories, I love making musical numbers, I love making dramatic scenes, I like telling stories.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.759
I d just generally I get a kick out of it.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.000
Just and some of my brother was like, I don't get it.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:53.679
He's like, You're watching a monitor, because I was when he was he was on set when I was directing, he was like, You're watching a monitor, and you're like getting such a rush out of watching two people talk to each other.
00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:56.480
He's like, they're just talking to each other.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:02.480
And no, but I wrote that scene and they're doing my work, it's my it's my story.
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.039
I'm and I'm crafting how they're coming into it.
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:10.720
I'm crafting, you know, nudging them and getting them to the performance that I kind of want them to find.
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.279
And he's like, I still kind of don't get it, but good for you.
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:22.080
What does that creative process look like when you're working with those actors?
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:23.840
I'm still learning.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:24.320
Yeah.
00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:27.440
I'm still learning my creative process when it comes to directing.
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:39.440
Um I started my career as a dancer very short and then got into choreographing, and my way of starting to choreograph was um not by teaching.
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:40.960
I never taught a class.
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.919
I d uh a lot of choreographers start start in a dance studio and they teach and then they make a name for themselves.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:17:00.240
I started picking up a camera and started getting people together and started shooting things um and figuring it out and by like and figuring out how to edit too at the same time.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.759
So I was editing and I was shooting and I was choreographing.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.200
And that was my film school.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:22.720
I went to film school for like a week, I think, in Vancouver, and I dropped out because I was I was on a movie set either doing background work or dancing in a movie or doing something in a movie in the environment shadowing somebody and that I could was kind of learning so much.
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.000
I was like sponging it up.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:30.559
So uh now my process as a choreographer is very similar to directing.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:32.880
I like the storyboard, I like to plan.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.039
There's a lot of prep that goes into it.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:42.160
I like to plan like eight like 80% to leave 20% of freedom exploration and stuff like that.
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:58.720
Yeah, because a lot of times you're gonna I'll stage a scene and I'll put it on its feet with you know stand-ins or whatever, or just kind of like rough it out as a storyboard, and then the actor will come in and have a whole other idea of what they want to do, and I need to embrace that.
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.000
Like I was just on set of there's a huge movie.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:07.119
I can't I signed a thing, but it's a TV series, it's gonna be the biggest TV series next year.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.880
It's Sony and Amazon, and it's based on a big video game.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:16.640
The actor's Jack, he's huge, and I'm his personal movement coach.
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.720
It's kind of turned into like movement coach slash acting coach in a way.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:27.359
Because my job is to give him triggers in his brain that can cue his body to move like the character.
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:28.079
Wow.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:43.440
And I find it more stressful than choreographing because I'm teaching, you know, I do, because it's like I gotta come up with nuggets, and I'm I luckily I've been good at it lately, but I've been getting stressed out before the job.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:43.839
Yeah.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.200
But why I said that?
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:57.759
Because he came on to set and the director who was a director I worked with in on a series of unfortunate events actually, and he planned out this amazing three-minute wonder that I was inspired by.
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.319
I was like, this is beautiful, it's amazing.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.079
And the the actor came in and he's a great actor, he's a great human being.
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:13.359
But he shifted the way he wanted to like come into the scene and land in the scene and live in the scene, and it sh had it had to and the director had to adjust.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:18.240
And I watched him gracefully adjust and uh it reminded me.
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.359
I've had to deal with that too.
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:19.759
Yeah.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.160
Um you're not you can't always plan that.
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.319
So yeah, you gotta be flexible and you gotta think let things breathe.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:36.240
But there has been times where I've had no prep and I've just let a scene, you know, I put the scene on its feet and I let it I let it live and I figure out how to shoot it with the cinematographer in the moment.
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.599
So I'm I'm okay on my feet too.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:41.200
It's just prep is always nice.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:41.759
Totally.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:42.720
Prep is always nice.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:52.000
Yeah, it's it's nice to have that bit of prep, but like you said, having like kind of the 80% and then 20% to see what happens because you can only be so prepared.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.000
You know, things are changing all the time, and being adaptable is super important.
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:07.359
I think that there's a lot of like great actors that have become really good directors, and there's a lot of good choreographers that have become good directors, especially the ones that have the privilege of being on sets a lot.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:13.920
And I and I was talking to a director friend who was like directed one movie, and he's like, You're lucky, man.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:14.720
You're really lucky.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.599
I was like, Why?
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:32.079
And I and and and he was like, Well, because you've had all these flight hours, but you've been able to be around all these great directors and great or just around and watch all these problems being solved and watched all this stuff happen and and and be a fly on the wall.
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:37.440
And and I have, and it's it's like a film, it's it's something it's a film school.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.440
It's yeah, you can't you can't buy that.
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:47.039
It's a so I'm really grateful for all those experiences as you know in every category I've worked.
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.680
What do you think was key to gaining access to those opportunities and experiences?
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.240
Key to gaining ac asking, like there's times where I've asked.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.079
Like I but early on in my career, I didn't have like I wanted a choreograph at a young age.
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.079
At 18, I saw Rob Marshall.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:05.759
I was like, I want to do that.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:07.119
That's what I want to do.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:08.799
So I was just trying to figure out how to do it.
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:09.039
Yeah.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.119
So I picked up a camera and started shooting.
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:20.640
I was doing a little bit of stunts back then at like 1920 or whatever, and uh I would watch stunt stunt coordinators work, and I was like, man, they're planning every single shot.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:25.839
Bam! Cameras there, whoops around, like they were pre-vising all these things.
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.559
And I was like, okay, I need these people I want to be around.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:31.039
This is cool.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:32.559
I want to do this with my choreography.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:41.920
So I started to previs my choreography like the stunt guys did, and I was hanging around there helping edit and help, you know, I was just being a being a hand.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:49.839
Um but I would ask cinematographers to shadow, and I would shadow some cinematographers and just and and I would just be a fly on the wall.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.960
Literally, I was shadowing just being around, just hanging out and watching.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:54.799
And then I would meet people.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.519
And then you I'd meet people while I was there.
00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:59.200
Oh, you're a choreographer, yeah, yeah.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.599
Oh, we Might need one for the next episode.
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:02.640
Uh keep in touch.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.160
Here's my card or call me.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:05.440
Like that's how it happens.
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:09.519
Getting in the room, being in the environment of, being in there, being around.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:18.319
You know, my intention was to learn, but I was around this environment that provided some opportunity for me, which was pretty great.
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:18.960
Yeah.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:29.119
And I think too, what's so important is you talking about, well, one, a lot of choreographers do start as teachers, but also a great teacher doesn't mean you're gonna be a great choreographer and vice versa.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:45.680
But I think something that's so prominent right now is content and creating your own videos, and you are creating your own proof of concepts by putting, you know, your movement on bodies on camera and showing you can you know you're capable of doing this, not waiting for to be given the opportunity to do so.
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:52.640
I think that's really good advice, especially now, because people are booking jobs just off of their concept videos that they're posting on social media.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.839
They are right, yeah.
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.359
I just made one the other day.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:00.559
I was I I was um I started this community.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:08.559
It's called We Got This, and it's it's literally for dancers and choreographers and people that get in the room and have access to me and other people that I bring on.
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.240
And we have we go live every week and we talk to people and help people.
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:13.039
It's really cool.
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:15.759
And I've only it's a week old, it's been amazing.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.960
And uh why I said that, oh, I created this thing.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:23.599
I I I was like, I want to make a commercial for it now, but I want to have fun making a little short film or something.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:38.799
And I I spent the day making uh uh I wasn't gonna wait around and and I made a AI commercial that was starring me chasing a pair of sneakers around the city.
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:50.319
And um uh so you saying that you know, not waiting around, not you know, not waiting for uh someone else to to hire you and something that I'm not.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:55.119
Yeah, you know, and a lot of times there's these there's these tools here now for people for young filmmakers.
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:04.240
Uh I know AI is a can be a taboo word for a lot of people, but there's some really great tools out there now that you can use as a filmmaker to tell your story.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:12.640
Like yeah, um there's you know, a story for I've used I use it for storyboarding, for getting my ideas across.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.200
You know, I can't I'd rather do that.
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:22.480
I used to draw my storyboards and for some projects they had storyboard artists do it, but I'm waiting a week for the storyboard artist to turn around.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:28.640
Now I'm able to sit in front of a computer and draw my sketches and have my idea there.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.039
Yeah, because a lot of creatives are critical of AI.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:33.519
Yeah.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:34.000
Yeah.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:36.880
How do you see the future of AI and entertainment?
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:37.279
Like you said.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:45.680
Those people that are critical of AI are gonna be the exact same people like my mom in 1990, whatever, when the computer came out.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:46.000
Yeah.
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.119
The internet came out.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.000
And my mom still just my mom just loved her.
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:56.960
She just learned how to use a phone, and she just learned how to use well, she was trying to push the laptop screen.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:58.079
It's not a touch screen.
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:00.000
But I taught her, yeah.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.759
I taught her a laptop the other day.
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:07.680
I'm just saying, she had that same resistance uh to to to to it.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.920
So I think that um that's one.
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.119
I think they should learn it.
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.119
I think they should spend 30 minutes.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:21.119
Um, I I do think that uh it's not taking over like my short film I just made the other day.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.279
There's no way AI could have made that.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:30.480
Yeah, every single frame in there is is generated by me and created by me, and I had to nudge it and nudge it and nudge it.
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.599
It takes hours just to get the right angle I wanted to get.
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:46.880
So we're not completely there yet, but it's not gonna take away a soul, it's not gonna take away uh uh human like thought and emotion and and creativity.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.000
Um I still I still think we we're gonna need that.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.680
And I do think it's gonna push a lot of people to live, live connection.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:54.720
We're gonna be bombarded.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.640
We already are bombarded with all this content and all this fake content.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:08.559
And uh I foresee it, you know, increasing live theater, live concerts, live experiences, live communal gatherings, yeah.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:10.880
That kind of stuff, which is exciting to me.
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.599
Um but I'm an AI geek.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:21.839
I've been doing I've been manipulating AI pixels since you it was accessible before pandemic.
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:30.240
And um I now call myself a choreographer, director, producer, writer, filmmaker, and uh AI filmmaker.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.440
Um, and I'm not apologizing for it.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:35.519
Yeah, they can the haters can hate.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:41.119
Yeah, I'm utilizing those tools, they're not going away, they're only getting better and better and better.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:47.839
And um I could sit on the sidelines and just mock it and say I'm not using it, I'm a traditionalist.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:51.839
Well, I am a traditionalist, but I'm utilizing modern tools too.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:52.640
Exactly.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:59.119
And I I agree with you, it's not going anywhere, and it reminds me the story with the computer reminds me with social media.
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:06.240
You know, people are very critical of social media, and now it's so prominent, people are having careers as social media content creators.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:13.680
Like there's to not get involved with it or to not learn about it, you might be doing yourself a disservice because you're gonna be out of the conversation.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:25.039
I think you're totally right, and I think that um back in the day when social media started booming and you know, there was the beginning of the influencer.
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:31.759
Um it I was in some internal conversations at the studio and they were saying, What about this girl?
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.519
Oh no, she's an influencer.
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.440
Okay that's not the same conversation we're having now, is it?
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:37.920
Right?
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:41.039
And the same thing's gonna happen for AI filmmakers.
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:41.680
Yeah?
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:43.119
The same thing's gonna happen.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:51.440
Because now I'm able to um I'm able to shoot a scene with you, for example.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:28:08.319
If I'm if you're in the scene, I could do all your coverage here, and I can I can use your real performance, I can change the background, change the foreground, change everything in this room, and then go into an AI-generated shot that takes me into flies me across the world into Manhattan.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:14.640
Like I can use real filmmaking tools with AI and merge them together.
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:22.319
I'm not just needing to generate a full scene with um you can do so much, and what I'm trying to say is you can do so much now.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:22.799
Yeah.
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:36.880
And the the same conversation is being had uh that that was being had uh hating on social media influencers as it's gonna be as it's being done right now with the AI filmmaking technology out there.
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:44.319
Yeah, when the reality is both things are a helping hand, they're not taking away from things, but they can add to the performance.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.400
I did order a robot.
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:48.000
You ordered a robot?
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.039
I ordered a robot.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:50.640
What kind of a robot?
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.759
It's arriving.
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.279
Um it's arriving in October.
00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:55.839
Okay.
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.599
And it's to clean and do laundry.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:00.240
Okay.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:04.880
And I called my best friend Kenny up and I said, and I'm naming him Kenny.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:09.119
It's funny it's coming in October.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.720
I'm like, that could be fun for Halloween.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:12.960
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:17.440
Yeah, have the robot answer the door and and pass out the candy.
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:18.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.200
So I'm gonna, yes, yes.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:28.000
The robot's five foot one, 95 pounds, and we'll see what it does.
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:29.599
Laundry, cooking?
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:30.960
I don't know, cooking, I don't know.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.599
We'll see.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:32.079
Yeah.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:34.079
Apparently it will do all that.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:34.880
I'm curious.
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.039
I will film updates on that.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:39.519
Yeah.
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.319
So, Kenny, is that Kenny Ortega?
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.200
It yes, it is.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.319
Who has been a big mentor of yours.
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:46.960
Yes.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:47.359
Yeah.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:47.680
Yeah.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:53.519
How'd you meet, and what kind of like lessons and takeaways have been the most important things that you've learned from him?
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:55.279
I've learned so much from him.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.960
Filmmaking, directing, choices.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.480
One of the biggest things is is is is the why, the why of a project.
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:04.799
Yeah.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.680
I mean, that guy doesn't say yes to every project.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.359
He really finds out the why and it says, Is it does this really have reason?
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:13.200
Does it really have reason right now?
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:14.720
Is there a purpose on doing this?
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:16.960
And if there is, he does it.
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:19.920
Uh, and uh I've taken that away.
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.960
And it's helped me navigate through a lot of a lot of things.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:29.920
Um kind of being selective and like what like really trying to see if there's meaning in everything that you're doing.
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:31.279
Something that you connect with.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:32.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:32.559
Yeah.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.319
You we can be selective.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:41.759
I know it's like when we're starting off in this career as a performer or anything in the industry, you kind of don't feel like you have a choice.
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.039
It's like a job gets offered to you and you're like, yeah.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:59.359
You know, and and kind of it if you if you're going the traditional route, if you're doing the whole grind of, you know, I'm gonna rely on these decision makers to make my career for me, the agent route, that sort of thing, and that's a you know, it's a good route.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:01.599
Yeah, but it's not the only route.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:06.880
Uh uh so you you're you're not gonna have many choice, you're not always gonna have a choice.
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:11.359
You're gonna take the jobs that are handed to you, and you don't know if it's gonna be a crappy movie or not.
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:12.000
Right.
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.839
Um, so yeah, yeah.
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:26.240
Yeah, and I think that's something too at the beginning of your career when you're gain gaining experience and you're learning from those experiences, it can be good to say yes to things to learn and gain that experience.
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:32.640
But then when you reach that point where you're able to be more selective, then you can really choose what you're gonna put all that time and energy into.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.880
Yeah, but there's projects now I'll do for free, like yeah, like shadowing somebody who's amazing.
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:40.160
I want to learn still.
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:40.960
Right.
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:52.880
You know, I I still do passion projects, I still do um, you know, a week away the TV series that we did for Angel is number one show on Angel, I think, musical TV series.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.880
And um Alan Powell, who's the director of it, called me.
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.680
His and we did the original movie on Netflix together.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:02.480
Um, and he's like, We're making a torch.
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.720
And the torch is a short film that you put on Angel and then the guild votes for it.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.920
It's a pretty cool, kind of unique kind of platform.
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.119
And then when they vote, it can go to get green lit for a whole series.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:16.880
That's how we made that.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.519
And he called me and he said, Do you want to do this?
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.039
And it was like, I think I did it for free.
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:24.640
I was like, Yeah, I'm available.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:25.519
Let's do this, let's do it.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:28.480
So I flew to National and we did it, and we choreographed it and made it.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.839
The dancers got paid, but I didn't do it because I got I did it for free.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:32.480
Wow.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.160
And just like for that torch.
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.079
When we did the series, I got paid or whatever.
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:41.440
But um, so I still like if I believe in a project, I'll do it.
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:45.759
You know, money's not always the deciding factor of a project, it actually never is.
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.519
Yeah, it really isn't.
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:53.599
Do you think that that's what separates people who like last in this industry?
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:57.920
Like having that curiosity and like continuing to want to learn.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.119
Continuing to want to learn is important.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.519
Yeah.
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.200
I think it's I think it's really important.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:03.599
Yeah.
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:05.039
Otherwise you get stuck.
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:14.400
Even as a choreographer, I know some choreographers and I have some friends that are I always looked up to them as really talented people, but I see them stuck in their I see them stuck.
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:19.440
I see them either doing the same that same combo in class.
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:21.200
Doing that same choreography.
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.920
They haven't got they've had a creative block for years and they just like they're just living in this.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:26.480
Yeah.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:27.759
I would be miserable.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.000
And and I think that they just forgot.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.400
There's there's they've they've forgotten their they need they need to unlock something.
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:34.880
Yeah.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:44.240
Um, I don't know what that tool is, but whenever I get a creative block, I always fall back like for for anything, even directing, but for me for core I'm speaking talking about choreography.
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:48.400
When I have a creative block, I it's usually because I'm only thinking about the dance steps.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.920
It's usually it's usually in front of that mirror when I'm only thinking about the steps.
00:33:52.079 --> 00:34:04.480
Whenever I fall back into this what the story was or what the um what was my real inspiration for this, like whether it's a photograph or a video or whatever, yeah, that's when I unlock a creative block.
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.960
It kind of brings you back to why we started it in the first place.
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:09.840
Yeah.
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:10.400
Yeah.
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:10.960
Yeah.
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:17.679
You've reinvented yourself so many times in your career from dancer, choreographer, producer, director.
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:20.079
What keeps you curious?
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:21.360
Oh.
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:26.800
And how do you know when it's time to kind of like break away and learn new skills?
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:28.159
I'm always learning new skills.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:32.000
I just for my Lego movie, I wrote music.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:32.559
Yes.
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.039
For it.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.840
And like the opening number is I wrote it.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:41.280
Those words, those are all my, you know, I and I ended up co-writing with a with a great friend.
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:45.199
And um I had never done that before.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.719
Actually, I've done it, but I never got credited for it before.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:58.400
Ah, I did it on other movies, I've written lyrics and I've contributed musically to a lot of musical projects, but it was it was always from the choreography.
00:34:58.480 --> 00:34:59.920
And I need a dance break.
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:00.719
That sounds like this.
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:02.880
Give me this, boom, ba-da-ba-doom, boom, you know.
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:03.119
Yeah.
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:09.599
Banging tables and chairs and making making noise and recording that and sending that to the producer.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:16.960
So yeah, I've and I've messed around with a lot of tools, music production and stuff like that, but I never called myself that.
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.800
I never I never tried to get jobs as that or promoted myself as that.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:21.199
Yeah.
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:28.159
This was one of those opportunities where I was like, I I was itching to get it on its feet.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:29.679
I was itching to tell the story.
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.519
I was itching to get it, get it.
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:32.480
I wanted to see it.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:33.679
I wanted to hear it.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.360
So I just did it.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:47.440
And then I actually, the opening song, so Kenny Executive produced a Lego movie, and the opening song, I remember I put a A, I made an AI previs to it.
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:54.960
And I I spent all day like generating these images that go to the song, this is what I want happen here.
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:02.559
And um I brought it over to Kenny, and he's like, Yeah, it's alright.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:05.119
It's like, what do you mean it's alright?
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.039
It's a good song, it's a great song.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:08.960
And he's like, Yeah, it's a good exercise.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:10.559
And it's like good exercise.
00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:13.119
What do you mean a good exercise?
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:21.920
So, um, and then uh, you know how sometimes you marinate on marinade on it or he ended up bringing it up to me.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:37.360
I didn't I didn't end up submit like there were in the in a in a movie when in in in in his films or in some some of my movies, um, the music supervisor reaches out to a bunch of songwriters and uh they submit music.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:39.440
And they submitted a bunch of songs for our thing.
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.639
So we're listening to all the songs, and I was like, I I didn't like any of them.
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:46.480
But I didn't want to pitch my song for the movie because he had already said it, yeah, it's alright.
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:51.599
So I was like, I I just I was kind of like surrendering to the fact that maybe there's a better song out there.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:52.000
Yeah.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.239
And I was like open-minded, really.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:59.199
And uh we listened to all the songs, and then he was like, Well, where's your song?
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.400
He was like, Well, where's I started we I don't know, I we didn't submit it.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.199
So uh anyway, that's how the song got back into the film.
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:22.400
I kind of just did let it, I let it be, and it grew on him, and we agreed it was the right one for the project, and and uh that's a perfect example too of uh not forcing something, but also uh back to AI.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.880
It's like I used the previs, like all the visuals of it.
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:32.400
I was able to tell that story and get a clear vision before we even got to camera.
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:39.519
Yeah, I put all those visuals to the song, and uh so helpful because it was such a challenge to make that whole thing.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:45.840
So yeah, what a like new skill, like writing songs, that's like a whole different, you know, area.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:46.880
It's a different world.
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:48.719
It's a different world, yeah.
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:58.239
And I have a question, you know, as queer as a choreographer, I feel like choreographers often are doing a lot more than just choreographing, but not given the credit for it.
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:06.400
Do you think that that's why choreographers end up making such great directors because they're kind of learning those skills or doing that as a choreographer?
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:12.639
Yeah, I think choreographers are are definitely very qualified to direct.
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:13.440
We're doing it.
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:18.719
I mean, we're directing we're directing physical dialogue, we're creating physical dialogue, we're also writers.
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:22.239
Like, I mean, Jamal Sims is gonna be directing a movie, you know.
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:30.239
There's there's Rob Marshall, Kenny, Adam Shankman, there's there's Gene Kelly, uh Bob Fosse.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:33.519
I mean, there's so many great choreographers, turned directors.
00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:41.360
It it's just it, you know, it comes with getting those offers to direct comes with trust, but also starting to make your own stuff.
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.480
You you gotta if you if you're if you're not getting those offers, you gotta start making your own stuff and trying to get yourself out there.
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.960
Um Yeah.
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:57.119
Shirley McLean told me, uh, she's a buddy of mine, she told me that she uh she said, You remind me of Bobby.
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:01.119
And I was like, Bobby, she's like Bobby Fossey.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:03.519
And I was like, I remind you of Bobby Fossey?
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:09.599
Yeah, she was like, uh and you know, I gave him his, she was like, I I I gave him his first job as a director.
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:10.239
I was like, really?
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:10.800
Wow.
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:12.960
That's why I like hanging out with her because she tells me all these cool stories.
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:13.440
Yeah, I think.
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:14.480
And I was like, What do you mean?
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:24.639
She was like, Well, I was attached to to do Sweet Charity as the star, as you know, and um they asked me who I wanted to direct, and and she said, I said I want Bobby Fossey to direct.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:26.880
And they're like, he's a choreographer, he's not a director.
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.719
And she's like, he's a director, and he's gonna direct this movie, or I'm not gonna do it.
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:36.159
And they hired him to do it, and uh that's how that's how he got sweet charity.
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.400
I mean, that's that's what yeah, according to her, yeah.
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:44.880
So that is um, but why I said that is because the choreographers are having to prove themselves.
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.840
Yeah, because people see them as a dance person or whatever.
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:51.440
I mean, I I'm already thinking of what I want to do next.
00:39:51.599 --> 00:40:00.639
Like, I just did a Lego thing, I love doing family entertainment, but I do want to do a thriller, I do want to do something really meaty and stuff like that.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:02.880
So I'm I'm planning what I want to do next.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:10.639
I don't know what it what it is, yeah, but I want it to juxtapose the colorful world of Lego that I just directed.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:16.239
So um, but choreographers in order because I don't want to stay in a box.
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:16.719
Right.
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:22.320
I'm verse I'm a versatile person, I want to remain that way, and it may be, I may have to do it myself.
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:22.719
I don't know.
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:24.239
I think that's I'm ready for it.
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:29.039
Yeah, and I think that's amazing that you're always stretching yourself and seeing what can I do next?
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.039
I've conquered this, what's next?
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:35.760
And like diving into these different areas and being as multifaceted as possible.
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:37.679
It's really inspiring and really cool.
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:38.480
Thanks.
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:38.960
Yeah.
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:47.119
So in your career, you've worked a lot with young people, with with Disney, Descendants, and a week away, like you mentioned.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:52.239
What's the biggest difference between working with young people and working with adults?
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.480
And also, how are you a mentor to those young people on sets?
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:01.440
You know what?
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:12.320
I've never been asked that question before, but like I think I like working with I like working with young people because it keeps me young.
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:18.159
It keeps me like I'm I'm like they're bringing something to it that I don't have.
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.719
Like there's there's different trends, there's different things going on that I'm not up with.
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:28.480
So I'm always surrounding myself with that energy because it's inspiring.
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:29.119
Yeah.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:36.559
Um and uh when I'm working with older people, they're bringing in they're bringing wealth, a wealth of intelligence and thought.
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:39.039
So I'm always a sponge to that as well.
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:39.679
Yeah.
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:49.199
Um and as of late, if they answer your question about mentoring, I don't think I mentor them, but I but I do um that's not true.
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:59.840
I I I I started to educate the last couple years and opening myself up as like this side of me for to offer myself for education, and I'm loving it.
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:14.079
So through that I've become a bit of a mentor to some young talent, and it's been cool being someone in a corner, you know, cheering them, cheering them on, and also like really helping them navigate something.
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:22.719
It's not it's always different, like sometimes it's a contract, sometimes it's a uh you know, a role they're preparing for or a big decision or whatever.
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:29.440
And uh I know my mom had no idea what she was how to navigate the industry.
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:32.320
I didn't she wasn't a stage mom, she kind of stayed out of it.
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:36.960
Um, and there's a lot of parents like that, so it's been cool to be able to help.
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:38.320
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.840
Kind of carry that torch and like share your expertise with them in that way.
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:42.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:43.119
Yeah.
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.960
So this industry is really demanding.
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:49.440
There's a lot that's asked of asked of you.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:51.360
You're getting pulled in different directions.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.880
You also became a father at 21.
00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:00.320
How do you balance that personal family life with a career and entertainment?
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:06.000
Well, I wish I I always r have a regret of not being around enough.
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.519
And now probably smother her too much now.
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:11.119
Like, what are you doing?
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:11.760
Can I come over?
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:12.320
What are you doing?
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:13.119
Can I come over?
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:14.320
Yeah, are you sure?
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:15.760
You don't want me to get my help with that?
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.880
Like, I kind of I kind of like want to really want to be around.
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:21.039
I was actually just in Vancouver with her.
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:24.559
She's she's actually doing stunts, she's jumping off of a bridge or something.
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:25.679
That's so cool.
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:29.920
And I was we were staying together in Vancouver, so that was cool.
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:30.320
Yeah.
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:36.239
I I I I was working on one movie while she was working on another, and we got to hang out.
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:43.840
Yeah, that's no, that's my that that was the only reason why I was like really excited to go to Vancouver this last week.
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.480
But um, how did I balance it?
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:47.039
I didn't.
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:47.760
It was hard.
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:49.280
It was freaking hard.
00:43:49.519 --> 00:44:03.599
Like like traveling all over for work and then you know, being like I convinced her every time every time I went away, I convinced her I was I was with The Muppets and I put on a Muppet voice.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.039
Hey Marley, it's Gonzo.
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:05.519
How you doing?
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:06.480
I'm with your dad.
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:08.400
Or Miss Prince.
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:09.679
And I would do the voice.
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:15.280
And I would, and and she really thought I was traveling with the Muppets for like years.
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:17.519
I did a couple Muppet movies, right?
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:22.159
So then I was I brought her to set, so she really knew like I didn't have to lie about that.
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:24.159
Like she thought I was they were my friends.
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:26.960
So like for years I carried that on.
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:30.079
I mean, hey, I Kermits call me, I have to go out of town.
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:34.239
And so she was cool as long as I put them on the phone.
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:34.719
Yeah.
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:35.039
Oh.
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:36.639
But you know, it was tough.
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.239
It really really was tough.
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:40.480
But um yeah.
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:47.440
Yeah, because a lot of people want to work in this industry, but also have goals and aspirations of having children and having a family.
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:54.159
And it can totally be hard to balance when you're on set 12 hours or you're traveling and you know how you make it work.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.679
But we all find our own creative ways to make it work.
00:44:57.920 --> 00:44:58.159
Yeah.
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:09.920
It's it's balance there's I I work so much, and I'm even now I have to really I have to really uh force myself to shut it down.
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:14.880
Otherwise I'll be up till midnight writing something or whatever, and that's not healthy.
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:15.199
Yeah.
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.079
Like I need to sleep.
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:17.440
You need to have you need to sleep.
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:18.000
Yeah.
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:18.559
You know?
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:19.039
Right.
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:29.119
So um there's times where I wish I would have said no to a stupid project that I probably didn't even need to be involved in to spend more time.
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:32.960
But I'm not saying I'm a I was a deadbeat dad and not present.
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.760
I'm just saying I I wish I would have.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:36.239
Yeah.
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:45.599
And kind of looking back, seeing places maybe you could have been more selective or well there I mean sometimes I would say yes to a lot of things and help a lot of people out, and I could have said no to a lot of things.
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:46.159
Yeah.
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:49.280
And and I'm doing that now in my life, but I wish I did it then.
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:49.840
Ah.
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:50.559
You know?
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:51.119
Yeah.
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:51.519
Yeah.
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:53.599
Cause there's there's a lot of collaborations that happen.
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.079
Hey, you want to try this, you want to write this, you want to do this?
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.559
And like looking back, I'm like, those are stupid.
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:02.320
I didn't need to make do that.
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:02.800
Yeah.
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:05.280
Little side project that never went anywhere.
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:06.559
Yeah, right.
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:11.280
And so working with the Muppets, what was it like choreographing and working with them?
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.400
Oh my god, I could do the I could do a Muppet movie every day.
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:16.639
Because I grew up on the Muppet Show.
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:20.480
I would watch and that in the Muppet movie with Kermit singing Rainbow Connection.
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:24.800
So that working on the Muppet movie was an absolute dream.
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:40.400
Um and the director Kirk Thatcher, who I worked with on both Muppet movies that I did, uh he was he's a legendary, and um I brought him in as the writer for the Lego movie.
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:43.679
So we brought him in and he wrote the Lego movie that I just directed.
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:48.079
So that was a cool full circle to be able to collaborate with him in that capacity.
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:52.880
And uh yeah, full full circle moment.
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:53.679
Full circle moment.
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:56.159
But I could work with the Muppets any day.
00:46:56.239 --> 00:47:06.800
Uh in and choreographing on them is like um it's a bunch of you're choreographing a bunch of grown adults that are holding this.
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:10.960
Some people, some, some, some of them have uh there's two people.
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:26.159
One with one has the hand, and you know, so there's yeah, so it's um I pre-shoot it just like a dance pre-viz, um uh with my hands like this, like just talking and stuff.
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:28.960
So yeah, it's it's a whole that's so fun.
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:29.679
It's fun.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:30.239
Yeah.
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.280
It's fun.
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:35.119
Yeah, it's such a time to like play and explore and try things.
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:37.679
Yeah, I mean, there's not too much they can do.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.280
Yeah, they're Muppets.
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:39.840
Right.
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:44.719
But but it's it's just you're walking into nostalgia.
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:45.519
It's cool.
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:46.159
It's cool.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.559
So, Paul, what's on your call sheet now?
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.480
What does a day in your life look like?
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:57.920
Um, oh, I've never been asked that what's on my call sheet?
00:47:58.079 --> 00:47:58.480
Yeah.
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:03.840
I wake up and I wake up, I usually set my alarm for 5 a.m.
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:04.800
I wish.
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.039
Which is torture.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:07.840
Wow.
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:08.800
Torture.
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:13.199
Um, but I don't always get up at 5, so I don't have to sleep until 6.
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:13.599
Okay.
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:15.679
But that's still ahead of the game.
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:15.920
6.
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:16.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:23.599
But I do m force myself, and I like I enjoy going to them now, but not I enjoy is a strong word.
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:28.639
I go to like an F-45 class or a training mate class or like a fitness class.
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.840
I I need that kind of boost in the morning.
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:43.119
Otherwise, my brain starts turning on like creatively and like all the things that I want to accomplish, or my you know, I write down a whole board of what I need to do daily.
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:45.440
Uh, and I'll be thinking of that.
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:51.199
If I start my gym at nine, I'll be thinking of all the things I have to do in my work.
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:52.239
I just want to leave.
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:53.280
I just want to exit.
00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:55.119
And there's been times where I have.
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:59.760
I've literally like been and I don't have the self-discipline to like stay.
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:00.800
I'll leave.
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:04.079
So that kind of helps get you going in the world.
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:07.280
I have to do it early when I know everything's shut down.
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:09.519
This is my time to focus.
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:17.920
And um, and then throughout my day, I'm I'm if I'm not on a set, I'm working on my own projects.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:25.360
I'll dedicate, you know, two hours to this project, one hour here, you know, that kind of thing, and so on and so forth.
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:25.920
Yeah.
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:34.239
Um, some of them business, some of them creative, and um that's technically my business call sheet.
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:36.559
As exciting as it is.
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:40.400
Um, and I do have fun in there too, you know.
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:41.840
I try to have fun.
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:43.760
Um, so yeah.
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:44.559
Yeah.
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:58.800
And with all the like huge projects that you've done, you know, being in rooms with Michael Jackson and being in rooms with Miss Piggy, how do you manage navigating so many different personalities and egos in a room?
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:05.440
Well, let me let me start with um I didn't work with Michael Jackson.
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:20.559
I did, so one cool thing about Kenny is that he he called me up one so Kenny called me up one time, and when we sort of after we first met, we did the Jonas Butters tour and we did Miley and stuff, and he's like, and we were prepping.
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:29.119
I I was training uh Chase Crawford when Kenny was gonna direct Footloose, and Chase Crawford was supposed to start in it, and I was just giving him private lessons.
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.079
And Kenny was like, Do you want to shadow me for this is it?
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.039
And I was like, Yeah.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:38.960
Shadowing, if you don't know, shadowing means you just you're shadowing, you're literally there.
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:43.599
Yeah, I was moving waters, I was standing around, I was handing, I was helping wherever I could.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:44.880
Yeah, I didn't give a crap.
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:47.519
I was just around when I was allowed to be around.
00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.960
There's some days where they were like, No, this is we you can't come, but for the most part, it was shadowing.
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:54.159
And then I brought it up to Kenny.
00:50:54.559 --> 00:51:01.199
I brought it up to Kenny, and he it was such a tough time for him because of what happened to you know Michael passing and everything.
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.159
He was like, Did I know you during This Is It?
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.440
And I was like, Kenny, I shadowed you during This Is It.
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.639
And he was like, Wow, oh my god, that was such a time.
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:12.239
I don't remember anything.
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.400
And so yeah, so it was a really tough time.
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:29.519
Yeah, it was a tough time, but it was and it was a uh but it was amazing being in that room, being in that environment of so much creativity um and so much excitement around that project was really cool watching them create it too.
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:30.320
Absolutely.
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.320
Um, but how do I manage egos in the room?
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:34.159
Your question was how do I manage egos in the room?
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:36.079
Yeah, and so many different personalities.
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:52.800
Um I believe sometimes uh man, sometimes I realize when some an actor is uh uh I've worked with a lot of actors, right?
00:51:52.960 --> 00:52:00.320
Yeah, and there's sometimes when there's a lot of big personalities in the room that are that are uh resistant to dance or resistant to something you're trying to do.
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:12.400
It's just because they're they're in either insecure about something, they're insecure about how they're gonna be portrayed, or they're not trusting you as a director or choreographer and how you're going to shoot them or handle their performance or whatever.
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:22.719
Um so I think building trust is a big thing with working with uh artists that are fantastic, and I'm and I'm learning that.
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:24.000
I'm learning that.
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:35.119
I um I remember when I did so I wrote a movie called Breaking Brooklyn that's on that Lionsgate bought, and it's on Tubi now, and it was starring Academy Award winner Lou Gossett Jr.
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:49.119
And I directed it and I choreographed it with Jared Grimes and and um Maud Arnold was our associate choreographer, and and I had a really great team on that and really great support as far as the creative people.
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:56.320
Um and Lou Gossett was like somebody that I was like, this guy's I mean, he's he's done it, he's amazing.
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:58.159
He's an Academy Award-winning actor.
00:52:58.239 --> 00:52:58.480
Yeah.
00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:08.400
Um but he did rem like he did teach me some things, like like he didn't have a big ego or anything, but he he was preparing for a real emotional scene.
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:17.760
It was a dramatic movie, and uh uh I you know he was just about to fall in to character for a second take.
00:53:18.079 --> 00:53:27.519
He had done a real deep emotional take, and this and I allowed the cinematographer or the gaffer, whoever, to adjust some lights and stuff like that.
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:29.199
And he said, Come here.
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:34.639
And he was like, Um you need to bring me on here when you guys are ready.
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:37.039
He's like, when you're ready.
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:38.239
You see this?
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:40.880
You got one more of these.
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:44.079
He's like, this is this is I'm tapping into something for you.
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.800
I'm doing this for you, for your project.
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:51.119
And I'm paraphrasing, I'm paraphrasing and rest his soul.
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:54.800
Uh, but he taught me, he's like, he taught me that a lesson that moment.
00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:56.239
Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:00.559
If on a on a big emotional scene like that, you don't have time for you know fiddling around.
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.239
Like the the actors are important, they're the most important thing in your set.
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:09.679
The performance is the most important thing we're capturing, yeah, and they're in a vulnerable place.
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:11.039
So that's what that taught me.
00:54:11.119 --> 00:54:18.719
And I was like, even at that level, he was like, I tapped into this for you, Paul, and for for the show, for us, for all of us.
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:25.039
And if you guys aren't doing your job, and you call me here and I'm doing my job, like that's not right.
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:42.960
Yeah, you know, so that's such an a like important takeaway to kind of like think from the actor's perspective, you know, like you said, they're going to that place emotionally, and they're on their P's and Q's, so it it takes everyone else being on the same page for us to get this rolling.
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:51.199
Yeah, now when I'm doing when I have the opportunity to to direct something before I bring the actors in, I'm like, okay, how are we?
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:52.159
How far are you?
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:52.800
How are you?
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:54.480
Let's get it set up, let's get it good.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:54.800
Yeah.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:55.920
Before we bring them in.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:00.880
Because when we bring them in, I want to give them, you know, yeah, their space.
00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:03.920
And yeah, a proper, I want to do it right for them.
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:04.400
Yeah.
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:05.360
So yeah.
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:06.159
All right.
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:08.559
We're gonna play some hot takes in Hollywood.
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:10.400
So it's gonna be a quick this or that.
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:11.840
Okay, this or that.
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:14.000
Yeah, you're gonna pick between two options.
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:14.559
Okay.
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:15.039
Okay.
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:17.840
Directing or choreographing.
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:18.800
Hmm.
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:20.559
Tough.
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:22.880
Uh direct I like directing though.
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:23.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.159
I can hire myself as the choreographer if I'm directing.
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:26.880
Yeah.
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:30.480
Film or television?
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:32.239
Oh, it's all the same now.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:32.719
Hmm.
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:34.400
It's all the same now.
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:38.559
Yeah, there's so much cinematic TV on, but I do like a good movie.
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:39.039
Yeah.
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:39.360
Yeah.
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:40.239
Totally.
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:43.039
Live performance or on-camera work?
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:44.960
Oh, jeez.
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:49.199
I like the thrill of live.
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:50.000
Yeah.
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:51.519
I like the thrill of live.
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:52.800
I agree.
00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:54.079
Yeah, I yeah.
00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:54.960
Yeah.
00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:57.280
Disney or Broadway?
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.400
Um Disney.
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:01.280
Yeah.
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:03.280
I'm there.
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:12.079
I feel like uh love both, but those I those Disney movies that I grew up on, like those were such big inspirations to me.
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:13.920
Like I was like, that's what I want to do.
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.199
Writing or directing.
00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:18.400
Oh.
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:21.199
I like directing.
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:21.679
Yeah.
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:22.159
Yeah.
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:24.639
I always get a little bit of a rewrite.
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:27.599
When you're directing, you can kind of Yeah.
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:28.239
Yeah.
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:29.920
You can influence the writer.
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:30.559
Yeah.
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:34.880
Motion capture or practical performance?
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:35.840
Oh, practical.
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:36.880
I like practical, yeah.
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:37.599
Yeah.
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:38.719
Yeah.
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:40.800
Teaching or creating?
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:42.000
Creating.
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:44.079
I'm learning how to be a teacher now.
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:44.880
Yeah.
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:47.599
But a creator at heart.
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:48.000
Yeah.
00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:48.719
Yeah.
00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:52.639
Small passion projects or big studio?
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:55.679
I like small passion projects.
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:56.239
Yeah.
00:56:56.480 --> 00:56:58.159
A lot of times I'm more happy doing those.
00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:01.119
Some of the big studio, eh, I don't know.
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:02.960
I do like small passion projects.
00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:03.440
Yeah.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:05.920
And both both have their pros, you know.
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:06.800
Yeah.
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:09.119
So now we're gonna do some factor fiction.
00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:11.519
We're gonna bust some myths about the industry.
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:12.079
Okay.
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:12.719
Okay.
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:17.599
The first one is that you have to move to America to make it an entertainment.
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:18.880
Fiction.
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:19.840
Yeah.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.440
You don't you don't you can do now you have the tools to do it from anywhere, yeah.
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:24.000
Yeah.
00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:27.760
And there's big scenes and like creative scenes everywhere.
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:33.199
Yeah, well, you have the tools to do it yourself, but also there I mean, there's industries in different pockets now.
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:34.639
The UK is popping.
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:35.119
Yeah.
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.400
So you can get an agent in different cities and different countries and yeah, and there's a lot filming in Canada.
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:40.800
Yeah.
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:41.280
Yeah.
00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:45.199
AI is going to replace creative jobs.
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:46.719
I don't think so.
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:48.239
Yeah, I don't think so either.
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:49.760
No.
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:51.519
Yeah.
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:59.199
It'll it'll replace a lot of tasks and a lot of things, but uh I don't think it's replacing us as creatives.
00:57:59.440 --> 00:57:59.679
Yeah.
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:01.119
Or human emotion.
00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:04.480
Well, you know what?
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:35.199
It's replaced some some creative jobs, but if you use at a it's replacing some uh lower level creative jobs like some people used to have jobs just to remove backgrounds from from posters and things and like lower level uh Photoshop jobs, video jobs, like there's there's rendering jobs, there's there's there are some yeah um there are some lower level ones that are yeah, definitely replaced.
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:35.920
So I don't know.
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:37.119
My answer wasn't that good.
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:38.079
Yeah.
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.559
Success is permanent when you make it, meaning you never have to start over.
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:45.599
No.
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:48.320
Yeah, I what is success anyway?
00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:50.559
Like what is yeah, what is that?
00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:51.679
What is making it?
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:53.679
Like, I don't know, I haven't made it.
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:54.960
I'm still trying to make it.
00:58:55.039 --> 00:58:57.039
I would I don't even know what making it is.
00:58:57.440 --> 00:58:58.000
Wow.
00:58:58.239 --> 00:58:59.440
Really, like I don't know.
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:00.639
I've won a few awards.
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:03.119
That has I they're collecting dust.
00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:03.599
I don't know.
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:05.920
They like that doesn't get you jobs in the future.
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:09.760
Yeah, it's like the continuous, like always evolving.
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:10.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:11.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.840
I I I there's look at it.
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:18.159
I mean, there's Academy Award winners that are not working.
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:25.280
There's people out there that are not working, and they've they're very talented and they're so I don't know.
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:37.119
I don't think it's I don't people need to define what making it is because making it can mean a various things, and when when you when you've when you achieve the things you think you wanted, it's not all it cracked up to be.
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:38.079
Yeah.
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:39.360
That's very true.
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:43.519
The rose color glasses come off and then you kinda yeah, see behind the curtain.
00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:44.000
Yeah.
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:44.480
Yeah.
00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:50.159
Has there ever been a moment you've hit rock bottom or really failed or really been at a low point?
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:52.159
And how have you gotten back on your feet?
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.559
Yeah, I lost everything.
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:58.639
I lost everything in in in 2008.
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:10.159
The economy crashed, and I bought I I was balling at one point, and I bought a brownstone in Brooklyn and lost it all, and the government there was a a scam going on of the banks.
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:14.079
It was a countrywide bank scam, and the countrywide was the bank.
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:20.079
And um, to make a long story short, I foreclosed on the house and lost it all.
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:22.400
And and no home, no nothing.
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:27.679
And um Yeah, so I've I have, and I had to cry them back up.
01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:30.639
Yeah, but but what do you think helped you?
01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:33.199
Like what skills or traits?
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:36.559
All the things my versatility helped me.
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:37.039
Yeah.
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:41.519
My versatility helped me, and taking chances helped me, and staying ready helped me.
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:44.079
Staying ready really helped me.
01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:50.880
Because if I didn't stay ready, I wouldn't have been able to say present myself for these opportun for opportunities that arose.
01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:53.199
Yeah, stay ready so you don't have to get ready.
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:54.079
Yeah.
01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:59.440
And the last one, if you're from a small town, your opportunities are limited.
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:03.760
If you're from a small town, your opportunities are limited, that's false.
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.039
I was from an island that had no opportunities.
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:08.000
Small.
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:15.440
So yeah, you gotta and if there's none that are being offered to you in the small town, you gotta make some for yourself.
01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:20.639
Or you gotta, and if you feel like your proximity is holding you back, you you you have to make a choice.
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:21.039
Yeah.
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:22.239
Do you have to leave or no?
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:28.000
Or I mean you might be too young to leave, but you gotta figure out ways to create these opportunities for yourself.
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:29.119
Definitely.
01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:31.280
So now it's time for Crafty Corner.
01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:32.480
Crafty Corner.
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:33.039
Yes.
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:37.039
On set, what would your dream crafty table look like?
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.320
On set, I my dream crafty table.
01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:40.639
Yeah.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:42.400
Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:42.960
Okay.
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:43.760
Classic.
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:52.400
I always like last week when I was on set, I took one for the pocket and one and then yeah.
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:53.920
Yeah, all right.
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.920
And so this industry, there's a lot of pros.
01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:59.440
There can also be some cons.
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:01.599
What is your biggest industry ick?
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:04.079
What's on your industry betrayal list?
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:07.360
You know what?
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:18.239
I don't like it when um there's a lot of like you know what's on ick I guess it I have a few things, but I'll tell you one.
01:02:18.559 --> 01:02:25.519
Is when and sp particularly when it comes to like dancers, and you hire a bunch of dancers, right?
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:26.960
Let's just say it's a big production.
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:27.199
Yeah.
01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:30.559
This is something for dancers getting into the industry to be mindful of.
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:38.719
Um and you got a you got a whole crew of dancers, like 50 dancers, they're gonna have clicks.
01:02:39.199 --> 01:03:08.159
And if there's like one click that's like a a s a rotten a rotten click, like uh somebody who's like gossipy or um just kind of negative or calling the union over s over the floor having being slippery or something, like without talking to you or just as just a rotten somebody trying to cause something, complaining, because sometimes there's there's performers you give them a job and then they're complaining about the the job or whatever.
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:15.679
So I would just say when you go into this these environments as a young dancer or whatever, keep to yourself.
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:20.960
Yeah, don't like get caught up because you'll be guilt by association by the that negativity.
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:23.679
Yeah, so just do your thing.
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:26.800
Don't don't get caught up in any of this uh extra stuff.
01:03:27.039 --> 01:03:32.400
Yeah, I feel like I've noticed like an increase in entitlement and a decrease in gratitude.
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:47.599
Yes, yeah, yes, and it and then it comes from these people thinking they're big stars on social or whatever because they got a lot a hundred thousand followers or something, and then then they're expecting to be hired or they're expecting, you know.
01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:59.119
Um but I see that without eat with I also see that too with a little bit of uh people with no social media, just like kind of as I'm going around teaching, I'm noticing that too.
01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:00.000
Yeah.
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:05.280
I wonder what's what it is, what's like been a shift in that.
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:07.840
But I feel like it's been more prominent.
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:16.000
Like, yeah, kind of like forgetting that why of like we're dancing, we're doing what we love to do, we're getting paid to do something we love to do.
01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:21.039
Like that that we should be grateful for that's a opportunity to be grateful for right there.
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:21.440
Yeah.
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:33.679
Let alone then you know, all the little things and having that kind of like entitlement or making it more difficult than it has to be, instead of just the simple thing, I'm doing what I love to do, I'm getting paid to do it.
01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:35.280
Let's have a great day, you know?
01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:36.719
Yeah, yeah.
01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:41.679
Yeah, I've dealt with that a lot, and uh I've seen it.
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:42.559
And you know what?
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:45.599
Have I been guilty of it when I was dancing?
01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:46.480
No.
01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:49.840
I was always pretty grateful, I was always pretty happy to be there.
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:57.599
Yeah, but I do see it, and and I don't see it as much because I'm the choreographer and they mask that and they hide it, but I always hear about it.
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:04.320
I'll hear about it from I there's always a dancer or two that I'm hiring that I know that I've worked with.
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:04.880
Right.
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:10.800
And they'll come to me and say, Hey, you think so-and-so is a rotten, rotten egg in the bunch.
01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:15.440
You know, she's saying this, that, or he's saying this, that, and they're causing a bit of trouble.
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:20.960
Um, then I gotta deal with it, or my associate has to deal with it or something.
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:21.360
Yeah.
01:05:21.519 --> 01:05:22.000
But yeah.
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.440
And having a rotten egg in there is tough because then they can rot the rest of the group.
01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:25.679
Yeah.
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:26.960
It starts to spread.
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:27.440
Yeah.
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:29.280
Like misery loves company.
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:29.599
Yeah.
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:30.320
Those people.
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:30.880
Yeah.
01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:31.360
Yeah.
01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:36.639
I think that's a a great industry to bring up because it's definitely very prominent.
01:05:37.119 --> 01:05:37.760
Yeah.
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:40.719
So, Paul, you're on call sheet confessions.
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:42.880
What is your call sheet confession?
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:45.039
What do you mean by call sheet confession?
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:46.559
This can be anything.
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:55.199
It could be a time you got fired from a job, it could be a crazy behind the scenes moment, something went wrong before you were about to hit the stage or film something.
01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:55.760
Oh.
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:59.679
It could be anything, like a just a story that we want to know.
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:00.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:13.519
Um oh I almost got in a I almost got in an altercation with uh like rest his soul, but there was a famous hip hop dancer named Shabadoo who I looked up to.
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:15.760
And I looked up to that guy.
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:18.079
That guy was inspiring, phenomenal dancer.
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:19.519
If you haven't seen him, you need to Google him.
01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:22.000
He was one of the reasons why I started dancing.
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:22.960
Wow.
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:28.159
And I went to I was choreographing a movie called Kicking It Old School.
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:30.639
And I don't know where the movie is now.
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:32.400
I don't even know if it ever got made.
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:34.719
But they fired me.
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:37.840
And they won they were like, we want a real old school guy.
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:39.119
So they brought in him.
01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:43.360
But they paid me out of my contract, they fired me, and they were like, we want you to audition for one of the roles.
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:44.960
So I was like, cool.
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:51.679
And I said, and I was I was fine about being fired because they paid me out, and I was happy that I thought he was more qualified than me.
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:53.440
Very because he's phenomenal.
01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:54.079
Yeah.
01:06:54.400 --> 01:07:04.639
And I get to the audition, and um I spiked my hair a particular way because that was what the character was.
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:05.280
Yeah.
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:12.960
And he knew I don't know why he did this, but he pulled me out and he was he basically said, um, he embarrassed me in front of everyone.
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:15.360
He was like, Your hair looks effing like he swore at me.
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:16.480
Stupid.
01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:18.400
And he's like, let me tell you guys something.
01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:25.360
If if if if the script says to put a helicopter on your head, don't put a helicopter on your head.
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.599
And he starts like going off about me.
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.719
And uh and people were like, What?
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:34.639
And it was time for me to um go.
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:36.480
I was like 20, I don't know.
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:38.880
I was like, it was before my daughter was born.
01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:48.800
And uh I gave him I was walking to the while he was talking, we were walking to the stereo to put my CD, I was gonna freestyle, and I decided not to the audition.
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:55.280
And I decided to whisper in his ear to call him outside after the audition.
01:07:56.480 --> 01:08:04.719
And I say, you know what, I'm not gonna read for you, but I will wait for you after, and we can talk about this face to face if you want, downstairs outside.
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:07.760
And um he wasn't expecting me to say that.
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:08.639
Yeah, right.
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:13.360
I think I used a few other colorful words and mock his hands' pocket, yeah, but I said it really quietly.
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:16.000
No one even knew that that conversation was happening.
01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:16.239
Right.
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:21.600
Gave him a couple hard pats on the back, and I bounced with my CD in my hand.
01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:24.479
So, but that was a disappointment because I looked up to that man.
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:35.600
I looked up, he I would watch his videos over and over, and yeah, I he was phenomenal, but um he must have been having a bad time, bad day.
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.960
I don't know, I don't know what he was going through in that moment, but that wasn't that wasn't cool.
01:08:41.199 --> 01:08:43.600
No, you were just trying to show up as best as you could.
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:45.439
I was so happy to be in his presence.
01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:46.239
Yeah.
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:50.319
Wow, but the the Canadian came out of me.
01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:52.239
The the the hockey fighter.
01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:53.840
That's what I say.
01:08:53.920 --> 01:08:55.279
I'm like the Phillies coming out.
01:08:57.199 --> 01:08:57.840
Yeah.
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.199
In another life, if you weren't working in entertainment, what would you be doing?
01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:09.760
Uh if I wasn't working in entertainment, I think I'd have a business of some sort.
01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:10.079
Yeah.
01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:20.399
I'm pretty I I grew up in a with being exposed to street smarts, entrepreneurial smarts, that kind of stuff.
01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:23.920
And I would have a business of some sort.
01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:24.560
Yeah.
01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:24.960
Yeah.
01:09:25.119 --> 01:09:29.680
I don't know what that would be, but I have I've accumulated a lot of skills now.
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.720
So I'm sure I can turn it into something.
01:09:33.439 --> 01:09:33.840
Yeah.
01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:34.399
Yeah.
01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:35.199
Yeah.
01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:39.760
And you've you've worked a lot in dance and musicals.
01:09:40.399 --> 01:09:43.840
You've also been in the sports world a little bit.
01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:51.039
With working on the Super Bowl pre-game show, what was that like and how did that compare to working on a film set?
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:52.399
I forgot about that.
01:09:53.039 --> 01:09:54.000
I forgot about that.
01:09:54.159 --> 01:10:01.920
So I did the Pan Am Games closing ceremonies, the Parapan Games ceremonies, um, which was thousands of people.
01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:04.000
And then I did that Super Bowl thing.
01:10:04.079 --> 01:10:05.279
But that was that was like a pre-game.
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:08.239
That was with I was actually with, I think that was with Don Omar.
01:10:08.800 --> 01:10:12.000
I directed and choreographed his his world tour.
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:15.199
And that was a that was kind of an extended stop.
01:10:15.439 --> 01:10:15.840
Yeah.
01:10:16.079 --> 01:10:23.760
Uh, but I uh there's nothing like live, there's nothing like the excitement of putting on a live event.
01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:24.960
Totally.
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:35.039
Um you got one shot, you got one take, it's thrilling and it's nerve-wracking, and um it takes it, it takes a village.
01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:39.199
So um oh, I would do that again in a heartbeat.
01:10:39.520 --> 01:10:42.720
But yeah, it yeah, I love doing live.
01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:43.680
Yeah.
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:50.399
You've also worked in movement coat like directing, coaching, and sequence creation.
01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:50.640
Yeah.
01:10:50.960 --> 01:10:52.880
What is that process like?
01:10:53.279 --> 01:10:54.720
Well, it's different for each one.
01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:55.039
Yeah.
01:10:55.279 --> 01:11:09.279
And originally I started doing movement creature creation kind of stuff on it was Cabin in the woods and then some other zombie stuff, and I felt like a fraud.
01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:11.119
I felt like uh, what am I doing?
01:11:11.199 --> 01:11:12.319
This is a weird job.
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:17.199
Like, this is like what a how did I start, how did I get this job?
01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:34.640
And I I realized I realized that I had to create the movement and then teach myself how to teach the movement because it's all about uh what you're telling someone and how they're making it respond to their body.
01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:39.039
So when it came to the last of us, it was all about that.
01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:42.960
I I I had already like learned how to kind of do the process.
01:11:43.039 --> 01:12:01.359
So when I came when I started doing The Last of Us, I was researching neurological disorders, Parkinson's disease, all kinds of stuff to show how someone gets infected on the early stages of infection from a small trem tremor or whatever to a full-on clicker.
01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:03.760
Yeah, attacking someone in The Last of Us.
01:12:03.920 --> 01:12:22.800
So um it was a The Last of Us was unique because I got to work on it for like I don't know, that was like nine months to a year of prepping and exploring and getting dancers together and creating the movement in different scenarios and stuff like that for the creators, and we were doing it virtually because it was during COVID.
01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:23.520
Wow.
01:12:23.680 --> 01:12:29.520
Um, and then I went to set to shoot it, and and that was I mean, epic.
01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:34.479
But yeah, uh movement creation is not something I really planned to do in my career.
01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:41.520
Um, but I said yes, and then I was learning on the job, really.
01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:44.000
Uh I was qualified, I still am.
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:52.319
Uh, and now I'm doing it on this huge movie, and um I find that it's turning into more acting coaching than movement.
01:12:52.720 --> 01:12:57.680
Yeah, I was gonna say, you talking about, you know, how does someone get infected and that first tremor?
01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:12.319
It made me think of my acting classes where we I had to do like a horror scene where I had to like like I was like choking, and at the first time I did it, I did the very like classic, like, all right, my mind goes right to this for choking.
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:21.600
And my acting teacher and a friend of mine was like, think about like what happens first, like your your throat starts to close or you you start to grab for something and let it build.
01:13:21.760 --> 01:13:25.039
And when I did that, I like and did the scene the next time.
01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:38.640
My class was like, like it they they thought I was choking, like it was much more believable when you do all that research and that prep and really thinking about like all those little things that build up to it, and it does become like acting coaching.
01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:39.600
It's it is, yeah.
01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:40.079
Yeah.
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:40.800
That's great.
01:13:40.960 --> 01:14:02.000
Well, one thing I learned during doing all my movement coaching and stuff, uh, over the years is like the more specific you can give it, give an actor or a dancer or whatever, the more specific you can of of an instruction, um the the uh the the more you'll get a d you'll get a a reaction that you want.
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:02.319
Hopefully.
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:02.800
Yeah.
01:14:03.039 --> 01:14:04.239
Uh there's some things that I'll try.
01:14:04.319 --> 01:14:10.640
Like last week I was trying uh a certain I gave him something, I said something to him, and I said, Oh no, no, that's that's not it.
01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:11.199
That's not it.
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:11.600
That's not it.
01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:13.039
I I told you the wrong thing.
01:14:13.279 --> 01:14:14.319
I told you the wrong thing.
01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:15.439
Delete that.
01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:16.479
Luckily he works that way.
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.319
He's like he scraps it and we'll try something else.
01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:18.880
Yeah.
01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:22.560
Um, but I'm very specific on what I tell them.
01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:23.119
Yeah.
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:25.439
Uh something can just make it click.
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:29.359
Yeah, and sometimes it doesn't click, and then you have to say something else.
01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:37.119
Like I think I said to him, uh you're carrying a stone.
01:14:37.279 --> 01:14:43.600
The stone is 500 pounds, and you're not carrying it with your arms, you're carrying it with your sternum.
01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:49.199
It's embedded in your sternum and it's weighing you down, and it's causing your forehead to drop and look through your eyes.
01:14:49.279 --> 01:14:52.239
And I just started to like, and each step you're grinding.
01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:54.079
The stone is grinding with each step.
01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:56.880
And like I just I don't know, things are yeah.
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:00.800
Um, I don't know where I came up with that, but it was in the moment.
01:15:01.039 --> 01:15:01.520
Yeah.
01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:02.319
I don't know.
01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:03.359
And it just worked.
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:07.039
Yeah, but I also yeah, it worked, it worked, yeah.
01:15:07.359 --> 01:15:23.840
Yeah, and I it's something that's interesting to me too, like with uh the dance brain is thinking of it almost as like it's like choreography in a way, it's a dance in a way, like thinking about like all the things that lead and that build up to that you know moment or that character you're trying to get into.
01:15:24.079 --> 01:15:24.880
Yeah, yeah.
01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:25.439
Yeah.
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:40.000
I think it's good for all actors and dancers to and performers to understand um movement, but also understand um the structure of a story.
01:15:40.159 --> 01:15:40.640
Yeah.
01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:42.479
Understand the structure of a story.
01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:43.199
Pick up a book.
01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:58.720
Like there's a great book, say The Cat, there's The Hero's Journey, there's lots of like books that are real easy reads that'll give you the fundamentals of storytelling and the fundamentals of of the structure of a story, so you understand where is your character at this point in the story.
01:15:59.199 --> 01:16:05.920
Um I think it's it's because things started to click for me once I started to really study uh writing.
01:16:06.399 --> 01:16:15.119
Now, by no means do I say I'm the the maest of writing, but uh I'm I'm a good writer, but I'm not like I I still have lots to learn.
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:29.119
I'm still reading, I'm still like you know trying to push myself, and obviously I got a long way to go, but um I think it's great for for actors and dancers and performers to learn, to continue to learn that.
01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:36.720
Yeah, I think that's really good advice because actors and dancers, they're the vessels, you know, telling that story and part of making that story come to life.
01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:43.760
So to understand the structure of storytelling as a whole will give you that more 360 perspective of what you're a part of and what you're creating.
01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:48.000
Yeah, and then you also have the knowledge to ask your director, hey, why am I doing this moment?
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:52.479
I mean, or like or not even ask them, just understand why.
01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:54.960
You know, not even bombard them with the why.
01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:55.439
Yeah.
01:16:55.920 --> 01:17:01.520
Is there any other advice that you have for aspiring directors, choreographers, dancers, writers?
01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:03.279
Stay curious.
01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:04.079
Yeah.
01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:08.960
Um stay humble.
01:17:09.439 --> 01:17:16.000
Um, I mean, you ask me that question and it makes me feel like a like I'm like the the guy.
01:17:16.159 --> 01:17:16.800
You know what I mean?
01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:18.239
I don't look at myself as the guy.
01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:20.720
I still feel like I'm like, and I am.
01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:25.359
I'm on this journey and and we're in the same pool, like everyone's in the same ecosystem.
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:26.640
Like we really are.
01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:31.119
We're we're we're we're all swimming in the same pond, you know?
01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:32.239
Like stars.
01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:41.199
The the the directors want to work on movies just as much as actors do, and actors look at them as like, oh, this person can change my life.
01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:45.199
Well, like we're in the same pond, we're doing the same thing.
01:17:45.439 --> 01:17:48.079
We're just you know, yeah, we're all doing the same thing.
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:51.840
So and it just you've achieved so much and you're so humble.
01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:53.439
What keeps you grounded?
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.840
Realizing that we're doing the same thing that it can be snatched away from you at any given time.
01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:08.640
Yeah, and and um yeah, I I I don't know, I want to I I just look at life like like that, I look at the industry like that.
01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:14.720
I think we're all kind of doing the same thing, we're all trying to advance in a in a way.
01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:15.119
Right.
01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.760
Some are doing it the wrong way, some are doing it the right way.
01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:18.640
Yeah.
01:18:19.119 --> 01:18:22.399
But at the end of the day, you want to work with cool people, the nice people.
01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:23.279
Exactly.
01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:26.000
That's the process is the most fun part.
01:18:26.079 --> 01:18:26.319
Yeah.
01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:32.319
You know, yeah, like working with a great team and bouncing off creative ideas, like you're spending so much time with people.
01:18:32.399 --> 01:18:34.399
You want to have a good time and work with good people.
01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:35.199
Yeah.
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:37.520
Paul, are you living your dream?
01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:39.199
Oh, yeah, I'm living my dream.
01:18:39.439 --> 01:18:41.039
I'm 100% living my dream.
01:18:41.600 --> 01:18:46.079
Um Yeah, I wake up with enthusiasm, I wake up with optimism.
01:18:46.399 --> 01:18:48.880
Um, there's still so many things I want to do.
01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:52.159
Um and I'm trying to get there.
01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:52.720
Yeah.
01:18:53.039 --> 01:18:54.800
And how do you want to be remembered?
01:18:55.439 --> 01:19:07.520
Um, I don't want to be remembered as uh you know, somebody who's nudged people and helped people along the way.
01:19:09.199 --> 01:19:11.920
Uh as far as my career, as I want to be remembered.
01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:16.239
You know, it's like I don't know.
01:19:16.399 --> 01:19:16.960
You know what?
01:19:17.119 --> 01:19:17.840
I don't know.
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:24.479
I I to be real, like sure I want to be remembered, but I've never thought about that.
01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:27.680
I've never thought about I want people to remember me by this.
01:19:28.800 --> 01:19:31.439
Because like, you know how fast we forget about people?
01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:32.079
Yeah.
01:19:32.319 --> 01:19:34.960
Like, look at the is anyone talking about the Queen of England right now?
01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:36.720
She passed away a few years ago.
01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:38.399
Like, she was the Queen of England.
01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:39.840
Yeah, you know what I mean?
01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:50.560
So I just want to make an impact while I'm alive and help people and and and tell stories that can inspire and hopefully maybe change a life.
01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:57.039
What's cool when I get feedback when someone approaches me and says, Hey, that changed my life.
01:19:57.199 --> 01:20:02.479
Your YouTube channel did that one video brought me out of depression.
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:05.119
That kind of stuff, that kind of stuff like makes me happy.
01:20:05.520 --> 01:20:07.920
So I think yeah.
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:11.279
Yeah, little nuggets while I'm alive is good.
01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:12.800
Yeah, definitely.
01:20:13.279 --> 01:20:16.479
Well, Paul, thank you so much for coming on Call Sheet Confessions.
01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:17.520
Yeah, thanks for having me.
01:20:17.840 --> 01:20:18.399
Of course.
01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:19.600
What's next for you?
01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:20.960
Where can we find you?
01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:22.640
You can find me.
01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:32.640
You can find me at Paul Becker underscore official on Instagram, same handle on TikTok, and uh check out my We Got This community on the school app.
01:20:33.119 --> 01:20:34.079
Yeah, see you there.
01:20:34.479 --> 01:20:40.800
I've been seeing some videos on your Instagram and LinkedIn of like you sharing tips and advice, and it's so cool.
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:43.279
Like, what a great tool for aspiring creatives.
01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:43.920
Yeah, yeah.
01:20:44.159 --> 01:20:46.720
Yeah, it's been pretty awesome to jump in there.
01:20:46.960 --> 01:20:47.359
Yeah.
01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:54.640
Well, I'm so excited to continue following your career, and thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me and everyone listening.
01:20:54.960 --> 01:21:06.399
You drop so many gems, there's so much to learn from, and you're so multifaceted, which is really inspiring to me as someone who likes works in production and dance and you know, doing my own podcast.
01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:11.680
There's so many things I'm interested in, and it's so cool to see someone make all those things come to life.
01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:12.319
Thank you.
01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:13.600
Thanks for having me.
01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:15.199
Of course, of course.
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:19.279
And thank you for watching this episode of Cauchy Confessions.
01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:22.000
Always make sure to chase the dream and work hard.
01:21:22.079 --> 01:21:24.560
If your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough.
01:21:24.720 --> 01:21:31.520
May your call times be reasonable and your checks be on time, and like my meme always says, break a leg, but not really.
01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:32.640
We'll see you next time.
01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:33.359
Bye.