BPS 485: The Screenwriting Blueprint Every First-Time Writer Needs with David Hohl

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
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amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four eighty five.
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Assumptions allow the best in life to pass you by?
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John Sales broadcasting from a dark, windowless.
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Room in Hollywood when we really should be working on
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that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you
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the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how
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to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show
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is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script
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coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind
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of project you are and the goals of the project
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you are. We actually break it down by three categories,
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by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com.
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bulliss.
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With Me today is David Hall. David is a screenwriting
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teacher and currently runs Horror Movie School and online film
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school that focuses on the craft of making horror films.
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He is also a producer and director, which will get
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in today in the show.
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Dave, how are you great? Thanks, I'm excited to be
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on your show. Thanks Dave.
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Oh, thank you very much for coming on. This is
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actually the second time because the first time the recording
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got a little messed up. But hopefully, Yeah, I was
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a charm.
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Right, Yeah, I hope, So I hope second time that
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third time, but it was fun, so I look forward
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to it again.
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Great, So you actually already know the question, So if
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it sounds a little rehearsed, it's like, well, David, it's
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like almost like David.
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Well, I was just thinking about that today and I
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was thinking, all my answers will probably be completely different
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because they're just off the top of my head.
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Good, So then it's really like a total, totally new
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that's right.
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Yeah.
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So the first question I have for you is, you know,
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what advice do you have two people that are writing
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their first screenplay?
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Okay, for people that are just fresh into it and
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don't have really any education, and you're I'm assuming you
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were talking about that right, yes, Well, I mean there's
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a few people that might go on the route of
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going to film school and UCLA or USC or whatever
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it be, but you know, that's not an option for
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a lot of people because it's rather expensive, and personally,
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I think there's there's better ways to get in. And
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the first thing I would just recommend is get as
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many good books as you can. With the internet nowadays,
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you can see you know, the reviews on the books
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and see you know how well screenwriters like them. So
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just try to find some good books, study him for
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a few months, read as many screenplays as you can,
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watch as many movies as you can, especially ones in
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the genre that you're interested in, and then start writing
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but I would recommend you know, learning how to do
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an outline and doing that properly first, and then and
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then going in doing your first draft, and then going
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and meeting people that are screenwriters or screenplay consultants or
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writers group. It's like, I know, you had a writer's group.
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It's very helpful, and you can run your material by them,
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and then after you get it to a pretty good level,
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then you can send it to a consultant to give
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you final critiques before you send it out into the market.
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You really don't want to send it out early because
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if you send it to producers before it's at its best,
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then you know, if there's problems in it, they're going
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to remember that, and then if you submit something again
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in the future, they might not be interested in reading it,
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even if it's ten times better at that point.
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Yeah, you know. I also heard Dave that like certain
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screenwrining competitions, they actually will take the name of the
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script and the writer and then they actually have their catalog,
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so if you do submit it again, they actually will
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base it upon that. So I know, the Nicole Fellowship
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actually mentioned that in A Q and A, and they
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were like, make sure this is as good as it
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possibly can, because if you submitted again and you know
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we have on database. And thanks for mentioning my screenwriters group, Dave,
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which is the first RAND screenwriters group. You know, we've
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been a meeting for over a year now we finally
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have a name.
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Okay, great, and you.
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Were gracious enough to come in as a guest and
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which was very good.
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Yeah.
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Well, I really recommend that I'm putting a group together.
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You know, it gives you people to talk to that
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have a like mind. You can share, you know, new
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things like maybe you know, the people in the group
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don't have a whole lot of money, so you know,
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one person can go to one seminar, another person go
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to another seminar and then sort of share the information
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amongst each other.
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Yeah, that's a really good idea. And so Deve, I
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want to follow up with that question. I wanted to
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ask what challenges did you encounter when you were writing
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your first screenplay?
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Yeah, my very first screenplay I did. I believe I
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was seventeen years old. I was in high school still,
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and I thought I want to do that movie stuff.
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Let me, I can write a screenplay just like anyone else.
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So I just wrote a screenplay, and you know, I
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had my ideas of what characters I wanted and the
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basic ideas and had some scenes in my mind, and
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so I went about and I wrote this script and
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had some cool scenes, and I think it probably had
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some good dialogue For a seventeen year old.
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I'd probably not like it now.
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But when I went back and read the entire screenplay,
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it really didn't have any focus. And that's because I
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just wrote off the top of my head. I didn't
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realize that there was this whole art to screenwriting and
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having structure and knowing how to do outlines and things.
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So I would suggest to others to really learn outlining.
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And that was my biggest challenge, is trying to write
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without doing those things that I just recommended. I ran
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like one or two books. But nowadays, there's a lot
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of a lot more education out there. There's more seminars.
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A friend of mine, David Freeman, has a great seminar
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called Beyond Structure.
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That's one.
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Michael Haig has seminars Chris, So you know, there's a
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lot of great seminars out there, and then there's specialty
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seminars for different genres. I have a class on horror.
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So I would just recommend getting the education and learning
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how to do outlining before you go into it, because
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that was my biggest mistake when I first started.
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And that's something I found out too, is that outlining
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is so key because you have to know where your
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story begins and where it ends, and you need to
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see that in a whole you know, whether it's you know,
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just one sheet so you could see like you know,
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just in one glance, or whether it's like you know,
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running it over the span officult pages to add in
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like a beat sheet. It's just important to know you
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know what's going on the scenes, everything in what's happening
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in those scenes, and then you can really start to
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develop that mood from there.
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Yeah, and when I did my first screenplay, I did
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know what my beginning and end was, but I didn't
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know all of the signposts along the way. I just
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sort of tried to fill it in as I was writing.
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And just because you some people think just because you
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have an outline, it means you're being rigid and you're
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being formulaic and that you're not being creative, but that's
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really not true. The structure just gives you the spine
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of the story, or if you look at it as
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building a house, it's a blueprints of the structure of
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the house. But that doesn't mean you can't be creative
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and go in and paint the walls however you want them,
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or put the trim on the on the ceiling, or
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the door knobs a certain way, so that once the
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structures there, it gives you freedom to go in and
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do all the the real creative stuff.
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Opinion.
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Oh yeah, and I agree on that too. And you know,
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and speaking of resources, there's other places online now where
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you can literally pull off screenplays and you can pull
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off even like, you know, things like about sequences and
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about you know that you were speaking about the signposts
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in the road. Were you speaking about like the nine
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main beats, like you know, like an inciting incident the.
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First Yeah, generally those things. Yeah, they're different according to
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who you talk to in terms of terminology. But the
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basic that's what I meant by signposts, the basic plot points,
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you know, the major plot points and then the lesser
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plot points along the way.
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So, David, what challenges do you encounter when you're writing
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a screenplay?
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Now?
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Now, well, I joked last time about it being my
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daughter because she's five and she's always tugging my leg
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gasking for something. It's actually true. So I'd say the
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challenge is just working in a schedule with everything else
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that's going on.
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Life will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
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and now back to the show.
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And I know that's something that a lot of people
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have problems with. There's a lot of people interested in
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screenwriting that work full time and they have kids, or
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they have spouses, or they have other obligations. So just
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being able to schedule things and having a time where
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you can really get in and write, that's a challenge.
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And you just have to be persistent. You have to
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just write it out. You know that it's this time,
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and you know you could be creative.
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Piece.
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Some people say there is no time, I have no time. Well,
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that just means that your priority is low. If your
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priority is not to do it, then you won't do it.
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But if it is a priority, then you will do it.
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Even if it means waking up an hour early and
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you know, getting to work an hour early and getting
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your laptop out before and writing a few scenes or
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or something, you can you can do it.
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Yeah, And You've had a lot of writers doing that too,
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where they've either gotten to work early or they stay
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late just to knock out something and and you know
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that with that extra hour or so, right right, so,
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and Deeve, your approach to writing is you know, I
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know you break it out into eighths. Do you want
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to talk more about your your real method?
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Well, uh, yeah, I won't go into a lot of
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detail because that might take some time, and people can
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learn that on my website too, but it's basically it's
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based on the sequence method from USC where they break
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it down into sequences. And the reason I like that
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is because they're bite sized pieces that you really you
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could understand what each second is attempting to do within
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the story. And then also it gives you a goal,
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a really clear goal that you know you can make.
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And then once you make that goal, you know of
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the twelve pages or so or fifteen, depending on what
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you're shooting for. Once you make it, then you just
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go on to the next and then you have another
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clear goal. So I think it it's easier to get
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through the whole script doing that. And my real outlining
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technique is basically taking that sequence method and putting it
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onto a outlined template where someone can just easily, you know,
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put in the major plot points of each of the
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reels and then build it and you can look at
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it from an overview, it's like a bird's eye view
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and see this entire structure of the screenplay and you
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can play around and move move the scenes around and
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things until you know it's really clear, and then you
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can write a first draft really quickly. And that's that's
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my goal, and I found it very successful when I've
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been hired to do something with a tight deadline. You know,
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I've had to write features in three weeks, which is crazy,
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I think, and uh, you know, but if I have
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the outline, then three weeks is actually actually a long time.
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You can do it quicker than that. So usually if
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I had three weeks, I would spend you know, a
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whole week just doing the outline, and then I would
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zip through the first draft, you know, in the in
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the two weeks or less. So that's what a nutshell
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of the out the real outlining method.
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You know, And I've faild that that also helps a
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lot with outlining, just sequencing it out and breaking it
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into eight you know, so you have you know, you
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have two sequences in act one four and Act two
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and then two and act three, and it really helps
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to sort of just see this and break down in
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the medical pieces. It really helps you. Now you can say, hey,
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this isn't as much as just if I said, you know, okay,
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we're going back one Act two and then that two
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dec three and then you know, to a conclusion.
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Yeah.
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And that's why, you know, in the early days of screenwriting,
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when people just had Sidfield's book, they always would say
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the same thing that as soon as they got into
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act two, they would get lost and bogged down and
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and it would take forever because there weren't really those
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clear sign posts along the way. So it got difficult.
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And the whole idea of reels, you know, come from
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when in the theaters they actually used reels of film
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and they were broken down into it wasn't just one
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giant real the entire movie. They'd have to switch the
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reels and so they would be in in you know,
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I think they were eleven minute twelve minute reels and
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then they would switch it over.
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So that's the idea of a reel.
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And if you'd take those eight of them, they pretty
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much come to the exact perfect length of a feature.
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So and when we talk about all the resources online
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and you know, you could learn aline pretty much anything. Now,
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on the subject of one, what was some of the
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reasons why you started horror excuse me, the horror movie School.
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Yeah, it's Horror Movie School dot com. And the reason
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I started it is because when I worked in Hollywood
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after school, the first job I had was in post production,
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and I had that for several years, and I saw
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all of these films come in, you know, where we
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would do the post production, we would do music, we
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would do sound effects, editing and all that. And I
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got to see, you know, the films worked on, and
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they were mainly independent films, but you know, they were
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anywhere from a few hundred thousand dollars to you know,
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maybe ten or fifteen million dollars as independent films. And
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I got to see them being worked on, and then
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I got to see what happened to them, you know,
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in a year or two down the line. And I'd
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always find that the horror movies ended up on the
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shelves of Blockbuster or or sold distributed, and I'd see
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them and I'd rent them even and I'd say, hey, hey,
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this is one of the ones I worked on. But
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the other ones, the comedies, the dramas, they disappeared, and
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I figured they're just shown at Christmas time at the
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director's house, you know, for their family or something. And yeah, yeah,
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so they you know, they spent five hundred thousand dollars
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of their life savings and now it's just something that
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their friends watched. And you know, that's sad because maybe
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it was a really good story. But the thing that
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I learned was that genre is something that really sells
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and it's something that you don't need star power for.
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So that comedy, you know, if it had a star
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in it, it might have been very successful because people
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would have wanted to see it. But if there's no
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one in it, they recognize no one's going to want
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to rent it. But horror, they're going to want to
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rent it simply because it's horror and because it's the
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cool idea. It's a star unto itself. That's what I say.
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And so I figured that I can help people learn
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this genre. It's something I've been working on for many,
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many years, and it's something that can help people break in.
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There's a lot of producers out there looking for low
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budget horror things to mil make, and you know, once
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you break in, then you can do what you want.
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You know, you could be Sam Raimi and you know,
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do Evil Dead and then decide you want to go
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do a West or a Spider Man or something. But
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if you love horror, you know you can stay in
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it too. It'll just give you a way in.
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Yeah, because you look at movies like Power them Activity,
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and you look at other, you know, other movies like
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a Blair Witch Project, they were basically like a no
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to well they would be classified as like a no
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to micro budget films and then they had minimal locations,
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but they really folks on the horror and they did it.
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I mean, both those movies did extremely well. And I
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know they're outliers obviously because you know, because they've both
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made a couple of hundred million dollars. But yeah, that
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is real point though, because if you know, if we had,
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let's say, five thousand dollars to make a movie which
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is basically considered no budget, if we were we could
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actually you know, get one location, whether it's someone's house
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or what have you, and then you know, we could
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actually film the movie.
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There exactly, and and you know you can do that
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with a drama too, but the difference is you have
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a lot better chance of selling the horror film or
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getting someone to you know, rent to watch it whatever,
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just because it's the genre. You have a fan base
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built in already.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I think Paranormal Activity the last time I checked,
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which maybe something's changed by now, but I think it
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was the most successful film of all time in terms
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of return on investment. The amount of money put in
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according to how much they made. It was just insane
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how much they made.
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Yeah, it really is. And you know a little side fact.
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One person I had on the on my previous show
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actually used to work with Orange Ptelli and they worked
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together at Sony and they actually were both coders. And
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Or one day just quit because he said, guys, I
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sold a movie to Sony or whoever. He said, that's
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what I do now. And they thought there was kidding around.
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We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
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And now back to the show.
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He was serious. And now that guy's into filmmaking now.
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And his name was Scott McMahon, and he just had
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him orran on his podcast to discuss to discuss how
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he did it. So it's actually if you want to
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look up Scott's podcast, I'm gonna put the link on
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the show notes. But it's really really interesting how he
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talks to Orn about how the movie got discovered and
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how Orn was able to get to get it to
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where it was.
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Oh, that's great, I'd love to hear that. What's the
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website address again.
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It's I forget what he I think it's called Filmmaker
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Fridays is his podcast name, but the guy who runs
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is called Scott McMahon. I'm gonna put the u RL
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on the show notes.
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Oh okay, fantastic, And you.
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Know, just to just continue with the online learning, you know, Dave,
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do you ever think that like online learning or you know,
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distance learning is sometimes is called do you ever a
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thing that will replace standard universities.
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It's never going to replace it because the universities are
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too large and they have the reputation, and there's always
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going to be someone that has a lot of money
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and a lot of time and wants to have that,
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you know, just the name saying they went there. I
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don't think it's necessary to go there. There's lots of
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people that have been successful that haven't gone to the
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major universities. And there's a lot more people that now
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have access to education and learning. Like I was saying before,
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there's a whole lot of people out there that you know,
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they have to support themselves, they have to have a job,
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they have to you know, help their families or what
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have you. And online learning gives them the opportunity to,
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you know, when your kids go to sleep, you pull
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out the computer at any time of the night and
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you can get that education. You can do the practices,
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you can learn from seminars, audio video, what have you.
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You know, whenever, even at lunchtime at your job. So
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00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:08.279
there's no excuses for not doing it because there's so
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many opportunities out there, and it just online learning just
404
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is great. I mean I use it all the time still.
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Whenever there's a little class or seminar that I want
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to learn, I go online and.
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I just do it when it's convenient.
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That's great because you know, and even like there's apps
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now for the phone, you're withe there of Android or iOS.
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You know, I've all sometimes out because I'm taking some
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all that classes right now, and I can just pop
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it open and I can go through a lesson right
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then and there.
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Yeah, that's that's great.
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Technology makes it easier, and not only classes, but just
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like things you're doing, you're doing this podcast. It's a
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great educational tool for people to learn things. And you know,
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a lot of times you'll learn things that you'd never
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even learn in in a film school in places like this.
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And it's also a good place in network because you're
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people with different experiences and you may not expose to them,
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you know, without that. Yeah, and then so Dave, just
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to move to production now, you wrote and directed a
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feature length film called In Search of Lovecraft. What challenges
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did you encounter when you made that movie?
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Well, primarily, I am a screenplay consultant. That's what I've
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been doing for over I think it's over fifteen years now,
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and that's what I'm known for mainly.
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But I've done production also.
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When I very first started, you know, when I was
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a teenager, I was doing national commercials Prodigy and Macy's
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and Dodge and things like that. I would work in production.
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So I've always worked in production. And when I was
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studying screenwriting, when I moved to Los Angeles, I also
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did a whole ton of low budget films with students
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and some.
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Really low budget horror movie s features.
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I worked in production, but I'm always the script person,
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the script analyst. But I was talking with my wife
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and we were just saying, you know, do you think
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you can make a feature? And I said sure, And
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it was sort of a bet. You know, before your birthday,
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which is in three months, can you get a feature
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put together? And so just for the experience, I did it.
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I wrote it really quickly and started casting it and
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got all the locations and got some really cool locations. Actually,
447
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we're the only production at least at the time, which
448
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was I think three years ago, to ever shoot at
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Quait Tower in San Francisco, because normally they wouldn't give
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you permission to go in and shoot. But we sort
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of talked our way in with the manager and got
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into shoot there, that and that. So that was cool,
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and we have a lot of high profile San Francisco
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locations that we shot in. The biggest obstacle was time.
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We'd run out of time because we had almost no budget.
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We shot the whole thing in ten days, and so
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all of these things I had on my shot lists,
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you know, I would say, Okay, we're on this shot. Now,
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now get the dolly ready. I want to do a
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dolly shot here, and at the same time, you know,
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boom the arm up so we can get a shot.
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So dolly shot with a boom and they'd say, no,
463
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I don't think so, we.
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Don't have the time for that.
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We're going to put it on sticks and shoot it,
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you know, straight, And a lot of that happened. So
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that was disappointing, and that taught me just that the
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next one I do. I just need a bigger budget
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so we have more time, more time.
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Yeah, And that's what we've learned too, is I would
471
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much prefer to have more days, yeah, and make them
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less hours because I mean you hear sometimes like fourteen sixteen,
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eighteen hour days. Oh yeah, it just grinds out your
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crew more than anything.
475
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Yeah, we were doing for ten days. We did eighteen
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to twenty hour days every day, and yeah, the only
477
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thing that kept the crew from mutiny was having really
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really good food. So would I would definitely don't skimp
479
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on food if you're making your crew work a lot.
480
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Yeah. I was actually shooting a zombie trailer with a
481
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friend of mine and business partner Chris Witt, and we
482
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actually had this catering company actually donated food to us,
483
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so like all the lunches were like this amazing food
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each day and because I'm glad they worked out that
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way because it was raining every single day we were shooting,
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just like putting the cast out there was so brutal.
487
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:01.319
It was cold, and you know, I think that is
488
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:03.000
one thing I really made up for it was the
489
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:04.160
fact that we had awesome food.
490
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:08.440
Yeah, that always helps. And I need to talk to
491
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:10.359
you sometimes and how you got it donated.
492
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:13.240
That's pretty good. You know.
493
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.599
It's uh, different producers. I always say, different producers at
494
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:19.799
different skill sets. At times it's just you know, connections
495
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:21.799
or it's just me like you were able to you know,
496
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.920
talk your way and the shooting in certain locations and
497
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:28.000
you know, I forget told me this, but someone said
498
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.039
that a producer with a large rollodex is actually like
499
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.599
your best is like your best asset, because yeah, you
500
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.079
just call around and that's true.
501
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:37.119
That's true.
502
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.039
So if you were to make another film, Dave, do
503
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:41.880
you think you would go to the crowdfunding route?
504
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:44.759
Say that again, which route?
505
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.720
The crowdfunding route? Do you think you mean? You sick Starter,
506
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:51.960
you go, I I I might.
507
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.920
I think, you know, I know several people that had
508
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:02.119
success and that. One of my friend did a short
509
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.359
film successfully and got funding through that. Another friend did
510
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:10.839
a documentary any budget that I want to work with now,
511
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.359
I think it'd be probably too much to raise through that.
512
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.160
I know there's been some success. I know there's a
513
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.559
there's this game maker. I'm a big Lovecraft fan, being
514
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.359
horror or a person, and there's this game designer named
515
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:30.480
Sandy Peterson who designed the Colikathulu horror Lovecraft game, and
516
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:34.039
he did a Kickstarter to raise ninety thousand dollars to
517
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:36.720
make a new Lovecraft game and he ended up raising
518
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.240
I think one point four million instead of ninety thousand.
519
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.240
So you can definitely succeed if you do it right
520
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:50.319
and you have some kind of a name there. But
521
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:54.680
I think I'd be more likely to go private investor
522
00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:00.920
route and just do a you know, business plan and
523
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.759
and and get a lawyer and go to private funding.
524
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:09.279
Yeah. And you know, I've often talked about this, maybe
525
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:11.079
you could do a mixture of the two, because I've
526
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.960
talked about this to other filmmakers and just to say, like,
527
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.279
you know, maybe not crowdfunds your entire budget. Maybe crowdfund
528
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.400
maybe you know, twenty thirty percent. Could use that as
529
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.359
almost like a proof of concept. But but you know sometimes,
530
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.759
you know, I've got into discussions before about if you
531
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.079
need to crowdfund like five thousand dollars, is it really
532
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:36.799
quote unquote worth it? And some people say yes, some
533
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.039
people say no. But you know, I see what you
534
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.519
mean about, you know, having a name attached, because you
535
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:44.680
have to have you know, the perks have to be right,
536
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.160
the project has to be you know, it has the quality.
537
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:50.200
You know, everything has to you know, there's a whole checklist,
538
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:53.279
and you know, I did a podcast with John Tregronis
539
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.240
a couple of weeks ago. I'm going to have them
540
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:55.680
on again.
541
00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.799
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
542
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:04.680
and now back to the show.
543
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:09.519
And we always get into that about you know, sometimes
544
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.519
filmmakers just they set this unrealistic goal and there's absolutely
545
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.559
no way they're ever going to make it, like you know,
546
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:21.079
like you know, five hundred thousand dollars, this simple zombie movie,
547
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.359
and you're like, what what's called through five hundred thousand dollars?
548
00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:24.440
Right?
549
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:26.960
Or or how do we you know, who are you?
550
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:28.240
Why are we going to give it to you?
551
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:28.960
Yes?
552
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.839
Exactly know when when we can, you know, do it
553
00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:34.680
ourselves or give it to some person we've heard of.
554
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.680
And if I'm not exactly sure, but I've been told
555
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.720
that in crowdfunder, you know, if you know, correct me,
556
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:49.319
that you can ask to raise a certain amount and
557
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.440
if you don't hit that goal, you still receive the funds,
558
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:57.519
while in Kickstarter you don't receive any funds unless you
559
00:30:57.599 --> 00:30:58.519
meet the full goal.
560
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.440
Yes, go go or indiegog. I keep calling it indie
561
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:05.759
a go go. But in indiego go you can have
562
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:08.400
it set either way, whether it's you know, whether you
563
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.640
meet the goal and you get nothing, or you meet
564
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:12.480
the goal and if you don't meet the goal, you
565
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:16.200
still get something, So you can have it set either way. Kickstarter,
566
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:18.680
it's all or nothing, so you're a dollar short, you
567
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:19.839
get absolutely nothing.
568
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:21.880
And I in a way, I think I like that
569
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:24.279
better because then that way the people that are getting
570
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:27.599
involved in giving you money know that the project is
571
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.240
gonna you know, go forward, as opposed to you know,
572
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:33.640
you get partial funding and then it might not ever
573
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:35.400
be finished.
574
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.160
And you know, there's been discussions about that you know
575
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:43.240
online too, about you know, what is actually better, and
576
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:45.319
really it does come down to the project. You know,
577
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:47.480
I was all gonna try grown us about this, and
578
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:50.079
he I didn't even know about this, but there's a
579
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:54.640
whole zombie like you know crowd in within Indiego Go,
580
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.119
and basically he was tooling out the idea of just
581
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:59.759
having your hashtag go go zombie because there's so many
582
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:02.359
zombie projects on there and they all get funded too,
583
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:05.279
which is which speaks a lot about the horror genre
584
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:12.160
and the zombie, the zombie subgenre. And so Dave, just
585
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.200
to continue with the whole conversation about your projects, What
586
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:16.279
are you working on next?
587
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.559
Well, I'm working a lot on you know, student things.
588
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:24.720
I have the Horror Movie School dot com. And then
589
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.079
I have my consulting business, so I do screenplay consulting
590
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.640
for a lot of writers. I just talked to someone
591
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.359
today actually about a really really big project which I'm
592
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:39.440
not going to say until I get it, you know, signed,
593
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.680
but that's something I'm working on. And then I have
594
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:46.359
my own inspect projects that that I'm working on. I
595
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.920
think I mentioned to you this before. I'm actually getting
596
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.240
away from horror on this project and doing a kid's
597
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:59.480
Disney type Disney type film because I have some a
598
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.960
good friend that works in directing for Disney, and so
599
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.400
that's an open opportunity. And also I'd like to have
600
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.160
something that my daughter can watch and I can tell
601
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:12.599
her I did it. I can't show her any of
602
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:18.039
my horse but I mean, my true love is still horror,
603
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:21.799
but I like to be diverse. I mean, I watch
604
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.480
romantic comedies too. It's not that I'm stuck only in horror.
605
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:27.480
It's just happens to be my specialty.
606
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.480
And speaking of hard Disney, we were just talking about
607
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:31.599
Escape from Tomorrow.
608
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:35.880
Yeah, yeah, you turned me onto that last time, and
609
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:38.000
I had never heard of it, actually, so I looked
610
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.559
it up and I read a little bit about it,
611
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.640
and I guess the guy got an inheritance from his
612
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:48.240
grandparents and he spent six six hundred and fifty thousand
613
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.920
on making this film and he shot at guerrilla style
614
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:56.599
in Disneyland or Disney World. I guess it is in Florida,
615
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:01.519
and it's in black and white. And I watched a
616
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.640
few scenes and it has a really interesting look to it,
617
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.840
and it's just amazing that he pulled this off. Shooting
618
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:13.400
the whole thing gorilla style and not being caught. I
619
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.760
mean I read that he and the crew would go
620
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:21.159
and take these rides, you know, fifteen times in a
621
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.760
row to get the scene right, and nobody noticed anything
622
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.480
that was going on. He used as their phones had
623
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:30.360
their scripts on him, like you were telling me, and
624
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:34.760
they were using cameras that looked consumer you know that
625
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:39.559
other people in the park might have. So it's very interesting.
626
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:43.400
I'm going to watch the whole thing, but I wouldn't
627
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.679
recommend doing that. I mean, if that guy came to
628
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:48.519
me and said should I do this, I would tell
629
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.719
him no. And I guess in this case, I would
630
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:56.159
have been wrong because it was successful and went to
631
00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:01.599
the festival. But you know, that's one out of a million.
632
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:06.039
I know another person, a friend of mine, that shot
633
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.320
something similar movie where I told him he shouldn't be
634
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:11.880
doing it because he didn't have the rights, and he said, oh,
635
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:14.159
that's no big deal. And then as soon as he
636
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:18.679
finished it, the first advertisement he put out, first marketing
637
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:21.079
thing he put out there, he got calls from lawyers saying,
638
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:26.000
we're gonna sue you out of existence if you show
639
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:30.639
this or market it at all. So I was really
640
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:34.559
surprised that Disney didn't go after this guy, but luckily
641
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:37.159
they didn't, so you can see it.
642
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:38.199
It looks very interesting.
643
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:41.920
Yeah, I definitely would check it out. Sorry, I definitely
644
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:45.840
recommend it to filmmakers who just interesting how he actually
645
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.480
did it and obviously just feel what he did with
646
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:50.800
the with you know, although he had a larger budget
647
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.199
than most people had, it's just how he went about
648
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:55.280
doing it. But yeah, like you said, Dave, I would
649
00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.000
if somebody asked me about this, I would I say,
650
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:00.079
no way, do not even attempt to do something like that.
651
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:00.239
That.
652
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:03.920
Yeah, and and the funny thing is he knew that
653
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:09.280
there could be major trouble because I read that he uh,
654
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:12.400
as soon as he had everything in the can, he
655
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.840
went to I guess South Korea and had all the
656
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.159
visual effects done in South Korea because he didn't want
657
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.280
any of the post production houses to talk about it
658
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:22.960
and it to get to Disney.
659
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:27.239
So yeah, yeah, that's a good way to do it,
660
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.559
I guess. I mean, I don't know how much that
661
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:33.280
extra would have cost them, but yeah, it's it's a
662
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.159
really interesting story, you know. It's it's always some of
663
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.559
these films, you know, like bow Finger. There was a
664
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:41.000
that was based off a real movie where apparently, you know,
665
00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:44.239
like actors would just walk up this actress on the
666
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.920
beach and just say lines to her and she go
667
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:47.400
what and then you know they use that as the
668
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:49.920
actual movie. H I don't know the name of it,
669
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:54.199
but that's what bo Finger was based off of. Okay,
670
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.079
so yeah, it's you know, it's crazy to these stories.
671
00:36:57.639 --> 00:36:58.119
Yeah.
672
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.960
So so, Dave, you know, just to wrap everything up,
673
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.199
is there anything else you'd like to share or discuss
674
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:05.599
that we haven't talked about yet.
675
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:14.719
Oh, just a couple of tips. Maybe we talked a
676
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.840
little bit about this last time. I would just suggest,
677
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.920
you know, if you know what genre you have a
678
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:23.880
love for, you know, watch as many films as you
679
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.480
can and get the scripts, because you can't just get
680
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:27.679
it from watching the movies.
681
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:29.400
You have to get the screenplay.
682
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:34.639
So pick up copies of the scripts, the specscripts, preferably
683
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:39.159
before they're turned into shooting scripts, and read them and
684
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.679
read them, read a lot of them. And also, whenever
685
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.320
you see a movie, rent a movie or whatever, write
686
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.079
down the names of people that did them, you know,
687
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:52.199
write down the names of the writers, the producers and directors.
688
00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:58.719
Or cinematographers even and then you know, you could probably
689
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:04.119
look them up on IMDb pro. You know, imdbe pro
690
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.639
is not that expensive. I think it's fifteen bucks a
691
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:10.480
month or something, and it gives you contact information and
692
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:13.199
just you know, write them and you know, tell them
693
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.360
you're a fan and you really like this, how did
694
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:15.880
they do the.
695
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:17.280
Scene or whatever?
696
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:22.039
And I find that when you're honest and you're not
697
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:27.559
just making it up, if it's true, and you're also
698
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.719
you know, telling them that you like what they've done,
699
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:37.599
they're more likely than not to respond to you. And
700
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:41.960
you know, most of them are nice people, and you know,
701
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:44.599
if you could build up a conversation then let that
702
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:48.800
last for several months, then at some point they might
703
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:52.280
consider reading something you've done. You know, So just constantly
704
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:56.760
build those those relationships any way you can. And a
705
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.760
writer's group is another good way, you know, because you
706
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.599
might be in a writers group with a bunch of
707
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:05.119
guys that are brand new, and then in two years
708
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:09.400
one of them just made it big and you know,
709
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:15.760
he's writing sci fi action movies in a studio. Told
710
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:18.360
him about a comedy and he knew that you did comedies,
711
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.559
and so he tells you about it, you know, so
712
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.360
there's always those possibilities to just keep up the networking.
713
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:28.199
You know, Michael K. Sutter, who's on the first episode,
714
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:30.639
actually you know, he's been able to pitch to some
715
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.480
actually amazing people. And he actually wrote a script about
716
00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.760
Mickey Mouse, and now he got to pitch that to
717
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.719
Disney and now I don't know if they sign yet
718
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:42.599
or not, but I know he's got a lot of
719
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:47.599
meetings from that, at least just from that script alone. Great,
720
00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:50.679
and you have two books that you're working on, correct, Dave.
721
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:56.000
Yeah, one is one hundred and one Screenplay Tips.
722
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.239
We'll be right back after a word from our spawn, sir,
723
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:05.119
and now back to the show.
724
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:11.280
Blasting Down the Gatekeeper's Doors. It's a book with one
725
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.320
hundred and one different things that have come across over
726
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:19.039
the years. There's little tips that are expanded out and
727
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:25.079
explained in this book, and they're just little things that
728
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.280
you can read at your leisure, you know, whenever you
729
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.079
have a free few minutes, you can pick it up
730
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:32.079
and read one of the tips, and I think they
731
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:36.280
all will help your writing overall, your screenwriting. You can
732
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:41.199
get a condensed version of it, sort of a cheat
733
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:44.880
sheet of it that just lists them with basic information
734
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:48.440
on my website, which is David Hall dot com, d
735
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:50.920
A V I D H O h L dot com
736
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:54.000
and subscribe to the newsletter and then that will get
737
00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:58.079
sent to you and that's free, and that'll just give
738
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:00.480
you all the basics, and then the book coming out
739
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:04.559
will be more expansive. And then I have a horror
740
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:10.280
writing Thirteen Steps to Terror, which is a book on
741
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.400
the horror genre. And you know, I looked out there
742
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.800
and I didn't really see anything good for horror screenwriting.
743
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:20.440
There's a ton of general screenwriting books and some good
744
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:25.119
comedy books like Steve Caplan's book, Get That if you
745
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.239
have any interest in comedy, but there's nothing really good
746
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:32.880
out there that I've seen for horror. So I'm bringing
747
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:37.159
that one out. Hopefully people will learn some good pointers
748
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:37.559
in there.
749
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:41.440
And I would also recommend Steve Caplan's book. I think
750
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:43.559
Steve is awesome. I'd like to talk to a couple
751
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:45.039
of times. I actually hope to have him on the
752
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:46.360
podcast and in your future.
753
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:50.320
Yeah, he's a great guy, very funny, very interesting, a
754
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:52.840
lot of good stuff in his books. And even if
755
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:57.000
you're doing horror or any other genre. You know, there's
756
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:01.199
always a place for comedy within what you're doing as
757
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:03.920
well as just the genre itself, so you should know
758
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.320
comedy elements like anything else.
759
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:10.400
I agree, And you know, I've actually taken Dave's course
760
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:12.239
by the way, the Horror Movie School, and I highly
761
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.360
recommend it for anybody out there wondering. You know, after
762
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:17.159
I got done the class, I did have a couple
763
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:19.360
people ask me about it, and I always I did
764
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.119
tell them, hey, it is definitely a worthwhile course and.
765
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:24.000
Good thank you.
766
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:26.679
So the amount of materials and everything you get, and
767
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:29.920
so definitely checked it out, especially if you're interested in
768
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:33.760
horror screenwriting. And so those two books you're working on
769
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.880
are the are there going to be Kindle or Nook only?
770
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:38.559
Are they also going to be physical copies?
771
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:44.119
The one hundred and one screenplay will probably only be Kindle,
772
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:48.920
and I'm hoping the horror one will be with a
773
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:51.599
bigger publisher and be hard copy as well.
774
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:56.039
Okay, excellent, Yeah, So, oh, can I just get my
775
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:56.920
website really quick?
776
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:01.880
So sure, it's a horror Movie School at www dot
777
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:07.159
horrormovieschool dot com and you could subscribe to a newsletter
778
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:09.880
there and it'll give you a lot of free stuff,
779
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:15.119
some free papers, a couple of free seminars, audio seminars,
780
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:17.440
and then information about the class if you're interested.
781
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:19.679
I bet you actually beat me to the punch. It
782
00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:22.039
was actually the next thing I was gonna say. Okay, thanks,
783
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.960
no problem. But you know, Dave, thank you very much
784
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.599
for coming on. And again, everyone check out Dave at
785
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:31.119
Horror Movies School dot com and you can follow him
786
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:35.599
on Twitter at script m d Dave, was there anything
787
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:37.280
you'd like to say to end the show?
788
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:38.360
Now?
789
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:42.480
Just keep writing and great work what you're doing, Dave.
790
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.400
It's a good resource for people, so so keep it up.
791
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:48.599
Oh, thank you very much, but you know, and again,
792
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:51.480
Dave is a great script consultant. I'm actually I was
793
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:53.199
just before the show. I was talking to him about
794
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:55.480
a script I'm working on, which is a little horror comedy.
795
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:58.079
And I've mentioned this in one of my podcasts about
796
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.679
two weeks ago, when it was just me. It's you know,
797
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:04.320
it's a fun slasher movie and I hope to uh,
798
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:05.880
you know, you maybe just write it for fun, or
799
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:08.360
maybe you know, produce it somewhere out of line. You
800
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:12.519
never know, right, So all right, again, Dave, thank you
801
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.880
much very much for coming on and I hope you
802
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:15.519
have a great night.
803
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:18.840
Okay, you too, Thanks Dave, Thanks Allay.
804
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.840
All right, I want to thank Dave so much for
805
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:23.599
doing such a great job on this episode. If you
806
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:25.239
want to get links to anything we spoke about in
807
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:28.000
this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof
808
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.679
Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash four eighty five. Thank you
809
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:34.360
so much for listening. Guys, As always, keep on writing
810
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:35.239
no matter what.
811
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:36.320
I'll talk to you soon.
812
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.639
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
813
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:42.079
Screenwriting dot tv.