BPS 481: The Brutal Truth About Getting Your First Film Made with Greg Francis

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four eighty one.
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Assumptions allow the best in life to pass you by?
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John Sales broadcasting from a dark, windowless.
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Room in Hollywood when we really should be working on
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that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you
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the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how
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to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage.
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Now.
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Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
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All right, everyone, thanks an for joining me today on
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the show. Is writer director Greg Francis. Greg, how are you, sir?
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I'm doing pretty good, Dave, thanks for having me. Oh,
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thank you very much for coming on. You know, I
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really appreciate it. You know, I heard your podcast, heard
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your interview on another podcast, and I was like, Wow,
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this guy has a fascinating story and I want to
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talk to him as well. So Greg, just to sort off,
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could you give us a little bit about your background?
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Sure, as far as film and stuff. Sure. I think
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probably like most kids my age, when the VCR came
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into play, we all became cinophiles. I liked movies all
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time as a kid, and then I ended up moving
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to Asia. My parents are actual missionaries, and so I
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was living in Taiwan for junior high and high school,
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and one year for our tax rebate, we bought one
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of the very first of VCRs. It was a giant,
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giant machine, and I just remember going down and I
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couldn't read any Chinese, so all the videos would be there,
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and I would just say, well, give me a comedy,
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or give me a horror, give me drama or action,
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and then they would just give me a handful of
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tapes and then just go back on movies all night.
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And that started in junior and continues to this day.
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I think, but never really thought that this is something
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that I could do. It's just something that I loved.
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And it wasn't until I got into college and started
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doing theater and making short films that I really got
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excited about it. And then I thought, this is a
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it suld be to working, and it sure seems like fun.
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Let's see if we can make this go. And that's
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sort of how it all started.
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So, now, when you made those short films, were they
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were they college projects or were they just lists that
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for fun?
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Yeah, sort of, because it wasn't There wasn't any I
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wasn't at a school that had any kind of film
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program or anything like that. I think they had one
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or two classes, but I was in the Chicago area
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and they had a cable access stations, which I don't
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even know if they exist anymore. But it was like,
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really it was kind of like Wayne's world where there
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was little studios that if you went in and took
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some training could use their equipment and make shows for
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their TV for their TV station. And so I remember
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using their equipment and being like, oh, we get this
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for free if we just went to so we started
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making it would somehow tie into a class project. But
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I remember making two or three thirty minute projects, and
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then I started making at the college I went to.
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Each class would make a film and have a big night,
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and so I did that for the last two years too.
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Oh cool. You know, I think there is still some
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kind of public access left. But I'm sorry, Yeah, is there?
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Yeah?
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I think there is. Sorry if I interrupted you, Greg,
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I'm sorry about that. I thought. Uh, I think I
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think it was a little lag there. I apologize if
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I interrupted you. But yeah, I think there's still slowly
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a little public access programs here and there across the country.
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There's something in Philadelphia called Phillycam and Comcast actually has
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the fund that fun this because it was a deal
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that they should actually struck with a city and you
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can actually go there and use gear and stuff like that.
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And this. I mean, it was a great idea. And
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for people back in those days where equipment was just
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cost prohibitive and getting your hands on anything to make
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your own things was almost impossible. There's no you know,
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DSLRs or anything like that. It was just so expensive
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and film was beyond that. But even just getting big
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video equipment was silly. I think there was. We had
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cam quarters that had come out, but the quality is
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really bad. In fact, I remember doing my first shorts
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where it is like the old days you would do
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in in camera edits. You'd shoot and if you didn't
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like to take, you'd rewind it and then do it again,
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and rewind it, then do it again.
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And yeah, it makes me sound really old, but we
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were so excited just to be able to be like, oh,
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we're kind of making a movie that sort of planet
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to seed, you know.
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I remember those this camp quarters too going up in
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the nineties. Uh, because I was born in eighty four,
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but I remember my my parents they got us. Uh,
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my parents got me a this like old style VHS
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camera and I remember those huge ones where you would
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put it on your shoulder. It was literally like twenty
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pounds and you're just like, I need a tripod because
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my shoulders breaking here. Uh, but you know, and there's
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and yeah, and there's and then you would edit it
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and you could, like, you know, if you got fancy,
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you could try to connect it to your TV through RCA,
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you know.
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And you get to two of them and then try
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and do tape the tape and double over like you
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do with your mixtapes. It was pretty cool, yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, And uh, eventually I got a TV with a
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VCR built in and I connected another VCR VCR to
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it so I could actually start, you know, copying like
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stuff like I could make copies of stuff I did
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for people, or I could like edit this together, make
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best of and stuff like that.
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Yeah.
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It was pretty high ten for then, so you're like,
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this is freaking awesome, you know.
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Yeah exactly, And just to have access that was the
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biggest thing. Don't come from a wealthy family or or
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people that. I mean. I was a Midwest kid and
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growing up overseas, I didn't have any connection to the
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industry or people in the industry and so getting your
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hands on equipment for the first time was like so exciting,
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and being able to write stuff and then make it,
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it just was unprecedented except for doing theater. You know,
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it felt like, oh, we're doing something important and being
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able to do it for without having to pay was amazing.
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Yeah, you know, it's kind of like what Spike Lee
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once said. He said the reason he went to film
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school was just because they had all the tools, and
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because somebody asked them if they would go to film
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school now, and he said, no, I wouldn't go because
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you know, your phone is a camera now, so you could,
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you know, and you know, cameras like you said, the
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DSLR and the red and everything else. I mean, you
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have these wonderful cameras now that you could, you know,
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somewhere more expense than I was. But you can still
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rent some of these, you know, and you know you
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can put together a pretty solid movie.
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Yeah, it's it's a completely different time now, you know,
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film school you can go back and forth all the time.
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And the horrible thing, of course with any school now
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is it's just so ridiculously expensive. But one of the
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great things that does come out of film school, more
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than the equipment or anything else, is just meeting other
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people that want to do what you do and being
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able to crew up and get people to work on
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your projects and do it at that cost level, which
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is hard to find other places unless there's good film
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groups in your city or whatever. But film school does
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at least give you contact with other people that are
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trying to do the same thing. Oh, very true, but
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it's said, man, it's so expensive, it's ridiculous.
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Yeah, you know, I actually want to end up going
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to school for business, and you know, when I was there,
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I actually was like, you know what, I really just
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want to do film, and I ended up basically the
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way I network is through Twitter. I mean that's you
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know how I met you, and you know everything else
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and you know, and you know, we can do things
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online now, like there's so many online film courses and
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sites now. It's like I literally, Greg, I don't know
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about you, but I get like an invite every week
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to a new like oh, we have streaming video servers
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and we have webinars and it's a it's amazing.
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It is amazing. In fact, I was scrolling through all
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the people that you've interviewed. And I was like, Holy Macael,
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this guy's connected. You've gotten some amazing interviews with some
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really good people. No idea why you to want me
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on your show, but I was, I was really impressed
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with all the people that you've you've had on your show.
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Oh, thank you very much. I try my best. I
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have a ton of other people too. I got like
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a back order backlog of people now. But I really
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appreciate that. Thank you for saying that. But but Greg,
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you're awesome, and then you know, that's why I want
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to have you on, you know, and I want to
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talk about Poker Night too, But I just wanted real
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quick to go back to your background. You know, you
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got started in in the in the video world. You
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know on your im T your first credit, we know
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its Paleo World, and you know you had a couple
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other things, you know, could you talk about how you
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got started into into that specific industry.
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We'll be right back after award from our sponsor, and
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now back to the show.
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Sure, I got out of film school. I got married
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like two weeks before I started film school, and I
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went on our honeymoon to my grandparents' house because we
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couldn't afford anything. I was twenty one and we came
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back and went to film school for two years, and
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I made a movie about a thirty minute black and
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white sort of film noir parody, and of course it
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doesn't happen. It doesn't matter how many awards I won
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at that point, so I ended up gripping for a
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year and pa ing, and then I started art directing commercials,
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and about two years in a guy who worked at
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Family Channel saw my film and said, well, I got
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this project I need over the weekend. I need you
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to get this sitcom has one hundred episodes down to
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like a fifteen minute sales tape for mipcom, which is
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kind of like nap internationally it's a TV sales So
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I did that and watched it was a sorry oppression,
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said it was a how should I say it? It was?
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It was a tough job, and we put together a
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good tape and it sold really well. And so then
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like the next week he goes, all, right, now I've
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got We're launching a game show channel, and I need
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doesn't matter what the budget is. But it was kind
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of like Princess Bride with the dread pirate. Roberts wh
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would always say, you know, you have to do good
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or I can't hire you anymore, and wasn't to put
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pressure on me, but just to give you the reality
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of if people don't like what you do, we can't
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bring you back. And so I went from cutting something
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to shooting a twenty minute piece on thirty five with
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no budget, I mean, just whatever we wanted to come
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up with, and that sort of started about I gave
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that about almost a year of just doing these really
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big projects like that and had a good run. And
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during that time someone from Discovery had heard about me
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and they brought me in and asked me if i'd
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be interested in producing these series. And I was twenty
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four and I was doing some you know, big producing
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be a really good way to expand, and I was
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fascinated by it. There were two science shows that was
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still shot on film, it was all international. So I
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jumped in and we did that for a year and
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then I was you know, producing is a tough gig
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and I never wanted to be a producer. I was
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always a director. So I would argue with the EP
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all the time, well, really I want to be directing,
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But sometimes you get too valuable at one thing and
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they don't want you to do something else. So finally,
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at the end of that year, I quit, and when
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we finished the seasons and then they hired me back
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as a director. I started. I sort of rode right
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after that. About ninety six was the OJ Trial and
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that was when the first crime shows went on Discovery
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and our company did those. So it grew from about
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nine people to about two hundred people, and we were
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doing five six shows at a time and had a
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big studio and just running running act here. But I
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ride that horse for a long time. In fact, I'm
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still doing crime shows. But it was fascinating and fun,
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and I was traveling all over the country and meeting
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with different cops and then coming back and getting actors
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and redoing you know, the murders and the stories and
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so it was a great education of you know, showing
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up and having to do ten fifteen pages a day,
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or you know, running around just creating stuff as you went,
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and it was it was the best film school I
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ever could have had, and I really learned a lot.
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So so when they were when you were producing, and
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they and you mentioned that when you become so good
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at something and don't want you to do something else.
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You know, Like, what were some of the challenges you
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would face, you know, or some of the biggest challenges
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you had to face as a producer.
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Well, Gaul Hard, I mean and into something different, you know,
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I'd produce big commercial things, or we had money Discovery
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we were on more of a limited budget, and plus
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it was international, so there was a lot of and
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these were as close to pure documentary as everything that
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I've done. So you know, we were working with Archaeology
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magazine and I'd send a crew out into the field
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and they might go over to Petra in Jordan, and
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I sent them over there because we think there's a
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dig about one thing. And they get over there and
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that story sucks and they change the story completely. But
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they're gone for seven days at a place with note
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this is before cell phones or pagers, and they're out
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in the field and I don't know until the day
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they come back to the airport and they call me
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and say, oh, changed everything. It's a whole new story.
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Everything you sent us over here to do is wrong.
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And so then you come back and have to put
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that together. And so there was a lot of that,
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you know, and just trying to keep people safe. You know,
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we were, we were crews in some hot spots, people
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just flying everywhere, just trying to manage all that and
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learn and then come back and put it together into
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a story that makes sense. So it was a great
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experience and a lot of learning on the fly. But
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at the same time, you know, I wanted to There
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were two or three shows that I took myself, you know,
301
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going over to China and doing stuff there, and that's
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more what I wanted. I wanted to be out in
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the field. I didn't want to be sitting in the
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office or sitting in that at sweet as much as
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I wanted to be out doing it.
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So as you went through the years of this, eventually
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you know you decided you want to you wanted to
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actually make feature films. Correct.
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I think the goal was always to make feature films.
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That was why I went this cool and that's what
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you want to do. And you know, at that time,
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in the early nineties, it still seemed, you know, this
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was the Spike Lee era, the Kevin Smith era. All
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my heroes, Robert Rodriguez, these are guys that are out
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doing it, like man, why right, project at the right.
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They were, you know, this town's tough, and so you
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have to work your way up. And I think I was.
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I was married and had kids coming by this point,
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and I was doing really well in TV where you
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know I was. I was just working all the time,
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and so it was always a struggle with me, you know,
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do you keep riding this horse or do you quit
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and leave and try and try and go out there
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and do what you wanted to do. And that's finally,
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eventually where I got got to where I wrote Poker
326
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Night and started down that road.
327
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.359
So when you wrote Poker Night, you know, could you
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take us through the process of how you actually started
329
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:09.720
to write it? I mean, did you outline heavily or
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did it or you know, did you do a lot
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of treatments or did you just dive right in and
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just sort of find your way out so to speak? Sorry, Greg,
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you're there.
334
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Yeah I am. I'm kind of processing it. Sorry, laughing
335
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at myself.
336
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Yeah, I think what really separates a lot of amateurs
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from professionals, And certainly for me, I've written all my life,
338
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but I'm a very undisciplined writer.
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I love writing, I love reading. Well, let me rephrase it.
340
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I love reading and I love stories, but you know,
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sitting down or really being disciplined every day, I'm not
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great at I was doing so much time with homicide
343
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detectives all over the country, interviewing him all day and
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then going out with him at night and hearing all
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these thirty pages of Poker Night. I just kicked out
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in like a day, and that has sat there for
347
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about four months, and I didn't know what to do
348
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with it. I had a friend to come in and
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I would tell him the story, and so Doug and
350
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I would talk about it. He's credited with story with
351
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me on the film, and he helped me break it
352
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and talk about different things. And then and then over
353
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the next basically ten years, it was a lot of
354
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rewrites and changes, and as things would switch, we would rewrite,
355
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and it continued all the way up till when we
356
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were on set finally ten years later.
357
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So when you were writing, did do you ever subscribe
358
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to the eight sequence method or do you know or
359
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you know anything like that, or do you just you
360
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:02.680
know set aside?
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I think the only book that I had because I
362
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took script writing in film school in grad school and
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loved the class, loved the teacher and wrote a bunch,
364
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But I think we had Sidfield's book and there really
365
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it wasn't really.
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A cottage industry like it is today where there's all
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these other things. You know, story didn't exist. Then none
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of the other things existed, and I kind of was
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just plotting in the dark. And then it became well,
370
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if I have three acts, I can have three different
371
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stories at the table. And then he tries to escape
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three times. And so that's kind of how I built
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the structure of the film. And then we got to
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the end and it sat there for another two three
375
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.000
months because I didn't know. I never had the ending
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and didn't know what it was or how to how
377
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to pull it all back together. And then finally that came,
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and then it changed again once we got to product.
379
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We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
380
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:09.119
and now back to the show.
381
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.839
So it would be great to say that I was
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00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.200
smart and had it all plotted out and figured out.
383
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:18.680
And you know, you go back and forth too. If
384
00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.039
you're write a lot. What's better to really know everything
385
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.720
that you're doing. It's certainly easier in one sense, and
386
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:28.119
it certainly makes it more achievable, but there's something nice
387
00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:32.200
about being surprised by the characters and being inspired as
388
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you go too. It's just it's a lot harder. It's
389
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:36.359
a lot harder.
390
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.039
So yeah, I know what we have actually tried, like
391
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.880
boths myself and sometimes I'm writing and just you know,
392
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you sort of just get a starting point and you
393
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.079
have no plan where this is going, and you just
394
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sort of say, hey, see where the character is going
395
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to take me, and you know it is. You know,
396
00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:51.839
sometimes you're like, oh, wow, that happened.
397
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.640
Holy crap.
398
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:55.359
You know, I didn't I didn't see that one coming.
399
00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:57.680
But you know, once you can get into that flow,
400
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.799
so to speak, you know, that's a sweet spot that
401
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.039
all these old writers you know, uh talk about. It's
402
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.000
you know, it's it's a it's the one thing you
403
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.160
wish you could turn on or off.
404
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:13.079
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's so tough, you know, anyone
405
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.880
that's a writer I have so much sympathy for because
406
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.079
it's it's a tough life and it's a very tricky thing.
407
00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:24.240
And to be disciplined and also to have something interesting
408
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:30.279
and keep people interested, it's hard. It's hard. I need
409
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:32.440
I hope to keep getting a lot better at it.
410
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:34.079
I need to get a lot better at it.
411
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:38.599
Have have you read the book The War of Art?
412
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Yeah, it's a great book.
413
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.880
Yeah, it's it's it's astounding. I always every writer, I
414
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.799
always who comes on, I always talk about that with them,
415
00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:48.000
just to see if they've read that, because that is,
416
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.920
in my opinion, you know, like the de facto. If
417
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.000
you're going to start like a novel or a screenplay,
418
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:54.720
you should just sit down and read this first, and
419
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:56.599
you know this is what you're going to mean for.
420
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.799
It's it's funny because you know, now, well, it's like
421
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.240
I said, it is such an industry, and I've read
422
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.160
I think I've read every book. I have this weird
423
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.839
thing I abscribed subscribe to that if I learned one
424
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:13.480
thing from a book, it's worthwhile now since I love reading.
425
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:15.880
But it's also it's a great way to avoid writing.
426
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:19.039
Is I think I have every book on writing, and
427
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.599
I'll sit and read that instead of writing. So it's tough,
428
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.359
and I don't know that anymore that necessarily they help.
429
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:28.640
One of the best things I ever heard from a
430
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:31.640
guy out here on screenwriting was is the only thing
431
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:33.440
that matters is if when I get to the bottom
432
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:35.960
of the page, do I want to read the next page?
433
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.839
And everything else doesn't really matter. And I think that's
434
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really the truth of what a good screenplay is.
435
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:47.799
And that's very true, you know. So as you took
436
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.279
you know, Poker Night, and you have to finish screenplay,
437
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:54.720
you know, what was your next step? And you're getting
438
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.640
it out there and and stuff's getting made.
439
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.880
That's another great question, you know. It's one of those
440
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.480
that there were a few things before that that I
441
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.640
got really inspired by. Besides all of the great indie films,
442
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.960
there was Wayne Wang did this movie called Smoke back
443
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.920
in the early nineties and it was about a cigar
444
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.440
shop in Brooklyn and had a lot of big names
445
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.599
in it. And while they were filming, they they were
446
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.000
enjoying themselves so much. They shot another film called Blue
447
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:32.160
Blue in the Face, I think, and just kept bringing
448
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.160
people in and they improved a whole nother movie. And
449
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:37.599
I was like, man, people are just doing it, why
450
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:39.640
can't we do it? So we tried a few things,
451
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.559
writing and putting things together to get to that point
452
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:44.240
where I was like, we could do something kind of cheap,
453
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:47.079
but it never came together. Poker Night was the first thing,
454
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:49.440
I felt like, all right, you know, this is something
455
00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:54.519
that has has a genre feel to it, and I
456
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:56.119
think we could get the money. And at that point,
457
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.039
obviously Blockbuster was still huge, and you're like, at least
458
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:03.039
someone will pick it up at Bloeter. So I put
459
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.839
it together and I thought, the only thing that I
460
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.359
don't know is you know how to get the money.
461
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:14.759
And so I was talking with friends, and my sister
462
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:17.839
lived in a place where there were some people with money,
463
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.240
and her husband owned a restaurant and he said, well,
464
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.799
why don't you come out and I'll introduce you to
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00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:25.519
some people and I'll you know, you guys can eat
466
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:28.319
for free. And that's kind of how it started. I
467
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.720
would go in and just pitch these rich people, and
468
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:34.920
eventually we got about a million dollars and I thought
469
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.039
we were going to make the movie. So we packed
470
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:43.640
up and moved moved to that town. And then we
471
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:45.480
still had to get another million dollars. So that was
472
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.160
the problem. But I felt like, well, you've already got
473
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.319
a million, how hard can it be? And it came
474
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.359
together pretty fast, so but it proved to be harder
475
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:55.920
than I thought.
476
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:00.400
So when you got that first million, you know with
477
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.200
the pitch, did you know, did the investors ask a
478
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.799
lot about like you know, ROI or did they do
479
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:07.759
they want to see like a physical packet, because I
480
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.359
mean at that point, you know, probably you know, digital
481
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:12.559
packets are big now, but I mean at that point,
482
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:14.880
you know, physical package is probably still in vogue. So
483
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:16.240
did they ask to see any of that?
484
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:23.640
We not really. We We had a pretty nice business plan,
485
00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.960
similar to what everyone else is going to put out,
486
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.960
you know, you lay out here's some similar films. Here's
487
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.599
how they performed, A big statement upfront about risk and
488
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:36.680
how much money you need to have in the bank
489
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.880
if you even want to consider an investment like this,
490
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.200
what the rate of return could be, how how profit
491
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:51.799
from film is divided, A lot of background on all
492
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.960
the people that were involved, and and then we did
493
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.440
have a DVD that had a little video pay and
494
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:04.440
had a little teaser on it and some more information.
495
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.160
But truthfully, the people that I was talking to, I
496
00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:13.119
don't think they cared one bit. Most of them were very,
497
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:21.720
very wealthy. And because I went back to him and
498
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:23.880
tried to it once we had the million and I
499
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:25.680
was hitting a couple of walls, I'm like, why don't
500
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.799
you guys just double your investment. And they were like, look,
501
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:31.200
we never expected to see this money again, and we
502
00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.400
like you, and we liked we wanted to invest in you,
503
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.240
and so go out and get the rest and see
504
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.200
if you can make it. But it wasn't like they
505
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:42.839
were looking at this is boy, this will be a
506
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:45.279
great way to return the money. I think most of
507
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:47.119
you they were also just you know, part of it
508
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.039
is it's a sexy business, and I think they were
509
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.519
interested in that. And a lot of these guys were
510
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.359
venture capitalists themselves who started with nothing and had some
511
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.880
people bet on them and became incredibly wealthy. So I think,
512
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.000
you know, it was like a long shot thing that
513
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.559
wasn't gonna hurt him too much. And they were amused
514
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.400
by me, truthfully. Uh.
515
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:14.359
I once read an article about from a filmmaker who
516
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.359
said there are other methods of roy and what he
517
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.200
meant was basically his he had one financier and that
518
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.480
was a billionaire's wife. And this wife just liked to
519
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.200
tell people that she was a movie producer, and whenever
520
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:31.559
he had a movie, you know, she would write a
521
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:34.079
check and here you go. And so when they when
522
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:35.839
they would go to like, you know, yacht parties or
523
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.279
whatever else. Hey, you know my wife. This is my
524
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.079
wife a film producer. So that's how they got our
525
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.160
that's her Roy Monny.
526
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.759
Yeah. Yeah, people are are really funny and it's a
527
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.319
tough thing because anyone, as anyone in this business knows,
528
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:54.240
it's it's a really tricky thing to return money on investment,
529
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:58.160
especially now. I think it's harder than ever. You have
530
00:27:58.200 --> 00:27:59.920
to be very creative about it, and I think they're
531
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.319
people that are coming up with some really interesting ways.
532
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:05.000
But the business has changed so much, I think in
533
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:11.480
the last three years. Even so, it it's a dicey thing,
534
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:13.079
especially if you're trying to go it alone.
535
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.720
M hm. So uh, you know, you know, just as
536
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:19.440
a food for thought, Greg, you know, I don't know
537
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.400
what your next project is. Not to jump too far
538
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:23.480
the conversation, but you know, have you ever thought about
539
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:24.799
crowdfunding for your next project?
540
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:30.559
Yeah? I have. I think that it's it's a great,
541
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:37.039
great source. It's you know, getting I think, getting the
542
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.240
people in the following I think now maybe with a
543
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:43.000
project behind me and people a little bit more aware,
544
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.119
at least some fans of the project, I think that
545
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.279
that would be easier. At the time, I certainly didn't
546
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.400
think so, but now I think, you know, that's definitely
547
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.279
something to look at.
548
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:58.319
So you know, so now that you know eventually you
549
00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:01.039
did get the the two million so to make Poker Night,
550
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.000
you know, how did you go about, you know, building
551
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.079
a team from there? I mean, did you already have
552
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:07.720
producers on board or did you wait until you after
553
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:09.599
you got the money to start like crewing up with
554
00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:12.160
like a director's cinematography and you know all the other
555
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:13.680
key roles.
556
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.960
Well, it was a long process from there, and all
557
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:21.799
those initial investors are not involved with the project as
558
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:26.240
it is now. There was a point where after we
559
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:29.400
had the money and I came out and met some
560
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:32.519
people out here that were very shady in LA and
561
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.240
still didn't have a good feel for it. There was
562
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.880
a producer that was a line producer at the time
563
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.160
who was just starting to make bigger movies and he
564
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:46.039
loved it, and very quickly he got the script to
565
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:51.440
he was shooting a film in Irelander Isle of Man
566
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:53.240
with James Franco.
567
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.559
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
568
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:02.440
And now back to the show.
569
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:12.240
And Kevin Reynolds, who directed Water world called Tristan and
570
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:19.240
is old and the guy that was the the second
571
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:24.079
unit director swordsman on the film stunt coordinator, also did
572
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.079
Star Wars and for whatever reason, he loved the script
573
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:28.799
and he got up to Sam Jackson and he got
574
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:30.839
it to Hayden Christensen and they both wanted to make
575
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.039
the movie, and all of a sudden it became a
576
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:39.640
big project and they didn't want me to direct, and
577
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.000
I debated with him a long time and finally stepped
578
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.880
down and stayed on as a producer, and we got
579
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:49.119
picked up by three companies right away, and a lot
580
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:51.559
of a lot of fighting and a lot of phone calls.
581
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:53.000
For about a year and a half, I was on
582
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.440
the phone every day with all these different people, and
583
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:58.880
it suddenly became something, and we finally ended up at
584
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.880
Icon Film, Mel Gibson's company, and it was going to
585
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:04.839
be a ten million dollar film, and that was set
586
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:11.240
for August two thousand and six, and it was about
587
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.400
a year leading up to that of just trying to
588
00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:16.759
get Sam and Hayden's schedules clear and getting everybody in
589
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:21.480
the right place. And at that point then they got
590
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:24.079
off a jumper with Doug Lyman, which was I think
591
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.640
hundred and ten million dollar film. They both were probably
592
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:30.920
making more than our budget, our whole budget, and they
593
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:34.279
left and so the after two years it sort of
594
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:36.039
fell apart. They gave me a couple of names that
595
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.880
I could try and get to keep the project alive,
596
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.440
but I was at a point where I needed to
597
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.559
make some money because it was a long road to
598
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.359
do that, and so I just dropped the project and
599
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:54.480
went and started directing skincare commercials in overseas and then
600
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:58.680
here in the States and did that for about four years.
601
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.559
And during that time the project was optioned three or
602
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.480
four more times and set up at different places and
603
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:09.160
almost to go, and had lots of meetings as a writer,
604
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:14.559
none as a director, and finally I just kind of
605
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.160
stopped giving the option. I didn't want people to take
606
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.319
it unless they would let me direct it, and so
607
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.519
that went on for another year or so, and then
608
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:28.079
finally the producer I had now came in and he
609
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.279
been bugging me over the years and knew of the
610
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:34.319
script from the first first Incarnation back in like two
611
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:37.559
thousand and four, and he's like, we're going to make
612
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.680
your movie this year. I was like, I don't believe you,
613
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:44.200
and then we went and did it. So it just
614
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.160
took a long time to get there. And as far
615
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:53.000
as putting the team together, there wasn't anybody left from
616
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:58.119
when I started, no one, and so it's all new.
617
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.240
I took two people. We shot in Canada and the
618
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:05.759
only people that came up with me was a young
619
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:07.799
lady who started as a PA for me and is
620
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.960
now a big commercial producer and just produced her first
621
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:16.039
film and the DP and I actually had a different
622
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:19.400
DP up until two weeks before the film, who I
623
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.160
shot a lot of commercials with and he was just
624
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.880
breaking into film. Well he wasn't just breaking, but he
625
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:30.799
had done a lot of small films and was getting
626
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:35.839
bigger films and did a really nice horror film that
627
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.640
year that was big and was ready to do it.
628
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.440
And we pushed a week and he thought the film
629
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:43.119
wasn't going to go and he took a different job.
630
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.880
So I had to find a new DP in a week,
631
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:49.000
and so I found Brandon and Mandy did a great
632
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.599
job for me. We really clicked right away and it
633
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:52.640
worked out really well.
634
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.880
So did you find that your experience as a producer,
635
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.200
so when like a fire like that breaks out with it.
636
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.119
You know, your GP, you know, has to leave a
637
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.599
week before that. You were able to find one so quickly.
638
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:04.160
You know.
639
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:06.599
Did you think your producer experience helped with that?
640
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:13.039
Yeah? I mean anyone who regardless of I guess where
641
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:17.239
you end up in these positions. You know, the reason
642
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.280
I got that producing job in the first place was
643
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.960
because I was producing all the stuff I was directing.
644
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.679
And then anything that I've done outside of Discovery, like
645
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.000
I've done two series in China, a lot of commercials,
646
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.559
all the skincare stuff for four years, I'm producing and
647
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.119
directing all of that. So it's not that I've ever
648
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.000
stepped away from it. And I think you also end
649
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:41.199
up in you want to control as much as possible
650
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:44.159
just so that you have the things that you need.
651
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:50.199
And so none of those things stood in my way,
652
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:53.679
I would say, in the sense of it. It bothers you,
653
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:55.599
but you're just like, well, we've got to make this happen,
654
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.880
and so you keep going because otherwise, man, you fall
655
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:02.960
apart because it everything burns to the ground pretty fast,
656
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:09.039
and there's crisises every day. So you just get get
657
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.199
tough and keep pushing through and don't let it stop you.
658
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.199
Yeah, yeah, and that's very true, Greg, because I you know,
659
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.320
there's you know, I've done stuff myself and you're like,
660
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:20.719
you know, you always sort of end up, you know,
661
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.800
realizing those short films that you did or you know,
662
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.239
student films whatever that you know, those always end up
663
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:28.920
teaching you you have to have like a plan A
664
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:32.679
through Z because plan A is going to fall very
665
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:34.559
rarely do this plan A ever workout? And then you
666
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:36.360
got it, you know, and then going down the steps
667
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.559
now so we actually get something that actually ends up
668
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.159
like you know, like you with pokerne until it ends
669
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:42.880
up actually happening and everyone's on set and you're like,
670
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:44.199
all right, here we go, let's film this.
671
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.000
I used to tell people, you know, because forty seven.
672
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:53.239
So I started when I was twenty twenty one, twenty two.
673
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:55.800
You know, like in all those years, I feel like
674
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.039
I've failed so many times at so many things. And
675
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:00.760
the reason that you get I had better as you
676
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:03.880
get older is because you don't fail the same way.
677
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.440
And so it's like I've seen all those problems happen
678
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:11.599
in twenty years, twenty five years, and I've found I
679
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:13.480
know I'm not going to have that same problem. I'm
680
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.119
going to have new problems, and I'm going to make
681
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.639
new mistakes, but I better not make the same ones
682
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:19.920
that I've made before, because it's the business is just
683
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:23.039
it costs too much money. So I think, you know,
684
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.400
experience really does teach you, and those hard lessons that
685
00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:29.440
you learn on all the hard projects only make you
686
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.440
stronger and better when you come to a new project.
687
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.920
Yeah, it's very true, you know. Like something I've learned
688
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:41.119
is that over the years is that storyboarding is so key.
689
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.639
I know some directors don't storyboard, but that's something that
690
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.800
I've learned that really helps not only you visualize the movie,
691
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:50.599
but so it helps everybody else as well.
692
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:56.320
I've heard that, I've heard rumors of that. It was
693
00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:59.880
a great story about Matt Damon going to work with
694
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:06.159
the Coen Brothers on True Grit, and he said he
695
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:08.719
wanted to take the job. Because I forget who was
696
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:10.960
telling him. It might have been. I think it was
697
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:13.639
Brad Pitt said, you know, the great thing with working
698
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:16.239
with the Coen Brothers is every day you get your sides,
699
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:18.519
which is, you know, the piece of the scripture shooting
700
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:22.000
that day, and next to your sides is the storyboard
701
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.000
of every shot. They're going to do, so you know
702
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.960
exactly what you're doing in every single scene. And I
703
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:31.000
was like, wow, that's crazy. And I remember getting to
704
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.079
hear mm at Walsh talk when I was in Foam
705
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.599
school about Blood Simple and it was the Coen Brothers
706
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:41.079
first film, and he had a great story about he
707
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:43.599
had this ideal when he gets shot and falls in
708
00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:47.320
the bathroom how he wanted to do it, and he
709
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.440
said the Coen Brothers kept showing him that the storyboards
710
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.519
and going no, but look, this is how you fall.
711
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:54.360
And he goes, yeah, but I thought of him and
712
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:57.079
I said no, no, no, this is how you fall. And
713
00:37:57.400 --> 00:37:59.280
so I always think of that because I love them.
714
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.920
They're brilliant, but yeah, I don't know that my drawing
715
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:08.880
skills are good enough for storyboarding. And sometimes I'm also
716
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:11.880
I don't know. People are all funny, but you're like,
717
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:13.599
I don't know if I want everybody to know because
718
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:15.480
it changes so fast and as soon as you put
719
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:17.320
it on paper, they're like, but this is what you're
720
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:20.920
supposed to do. And I think, doing so much TV
721
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:25.639
and so much so many things that change so quickly,
722
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.480
I end up being a lot more fluid on set
723
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:30.440
from what I plan.
724
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.239
So that's a great story about em at Walsh, you know,
725
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.519
Blood Simple. You know, I've watched that movie, you know,
726
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.679
a dozen times. You know, I think that's a very
727
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:44.159
good almost a film school in itself, because it's it's
728
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.119
it's very good and that you could tell they you know,
729
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:50.360
they didn't have a lot of money, but they used
730
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.599
the story to just you know, hey, look we don't
731
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.800
we can't blow up a car this and that. Because
732
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:58.400
I remember the interview they did for Raising Arizona. They
733
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:00.159
said they finally got to blow up a car, which
734
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.000
I always wanted to do, and they couldn't do that
735
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.840
in Blood Simple or or Crime Wave or second movie.
736
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.039
I forget what it was, but you know it was.
737
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:11.960
But as you get better, you know, like you said,
738
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.199
now only do you get paid better if I'm making
739
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:15.360
the same mistakes, but you get to blow up a car. Yeah,
740
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:20.800
you have to dream bigger, you know, Greg, just to
741
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:22.840
you know, sort of take a step back. You know,
742
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.280
when you were talking about you know, in LA and
743
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:28.320
talking about producing and you know, going out and finding
744
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.559
some really shady people, is there any you know, just
745
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:32.639
sort of tips that you could parlay to people that
746
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:35.840
about you know what to look out for if they ever,
747
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.679
you know, get someone trying to give them a you know,
748
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:39.960
a deal, whether it's a distribution deal or you know,
749
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:41.920
an actual investment deal.
750
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:50.119
Boy, it's difficult because as they creative, you know, you're
751
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:52.840
willing in some ways to almost do anything to get
752
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:56.239
your movie made. And and so when people were offering
753
00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:57.079
these things.
754
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:04.840
We'll be right back after word from our sponsor, and
755
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:06.000
now back to the show.
756
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:10.760
It takes a lot of discernment to know is this
757
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:12.719
a good offer, is this a bad offer? How do
758
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:16.440
I And truthfully, when you're starting out, you don't really
759
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:20.119
have a lot of choices. But I did feel, because
760
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.239
I had raised that initial investment, that I was sort
761
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:25.679
of a caretaker of that and a lot of a
762
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:31.079
lot of the guys that wanted to invest or to
763
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:35.800
work with that money, I just didn't trust. Even having
764
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:39.719
the money that I raised, I didn't feel like you
765
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:42.519
could just tell. And then you know, then you sort
766
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.480
of learned, well, that's how they all are, necessarily, just
767
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:50.639
these guys. But and then you know, over the next
768
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:53.039
ten years, I go back and forth a lot. Well,
769
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.280
you know, if I would have said yes, then at
770
00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:59.159
least the movie's done, you know, or maybe it just
771
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.079
should never happen. And so it's a cautionary tale on
772
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:04.280
both sides because at a certain point you just want
773
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.480
to get it done regardless, but you also don't want
774
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.480
to have to go back to the people that believed
775
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:11.840
in you, entrusted in you, and say, these guys took
776
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:15.800
us off for a ride. I think once I finally
777
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:17.960
came to a producer who was putting up the money
778
00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:22.719
and staying on board, it was a different situation. And
779
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:24.559
so it took it took ten years to get to
780
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.480
the right situation. I hope it won't be ten years
781
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.599
for the next one. But I would say, use your
782
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.239
use your judgment. And and then sometimes, you know, you
783
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:38.239
look at some of the great filmmakers, John Sales, James Cameron,
784
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:41.639
they all, you know, these guys that started with Corman
785
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:43.800
and some of the other things. It wasn't ever the
786
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.519
best situation. Their first films are. You know, they show promise,
787
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:51.239
but they're not great. Sometimes you just have to roll
788
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:53.960
the dice and and go for it and know that
789
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.639
it's it's not going to work always in your favor.
790
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.119
Paul Thomas Anderson was the same thing with Reicher with
791
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.719
Hard eight and then and then you hope that you
792
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:08.559
had enough good will off that project to get another one.
793
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:11.519
So it's it's it's very difficult. I wish that I
794
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:15.119
had better advice, but trust gut, trust your gut.
795
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:18.159
Well no, I think that's great advice. But you know,
796
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:20.519
and you right, you sort of parlay then, you know,
797
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:22.800
one moving to the next. And uh, and I don't
798
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.119
think you would have to wait another ten years to
799
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:28.840
make something after Poker Nights because I think, you know, uh,
800
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.480
you know, you've got distribution on iTunes right now, you know,
801
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:34.559
the movies doing I see all the time people are
802
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.440
tweeting at you about the movie. You know, I really
803
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:39.199
think that, you know, And like we talked about earlier
804
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:41.800
with crowdfunding, I think, you know, when you do have
805
00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:43.840
your next script, I think you can sort of expedite
806
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:44.559
the whole process.
807
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:47.559
Now, well you're moth to God's ears. I would I
808
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:49.280
would love to be able to get another shot at
809
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.039
the plate it. We've had a good reception. It's been
810
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.559
fun to see. You know. There's definitely a lot of
811
00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:00.480
haters too, but uh, the people that are are looking
812
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:04.320
for something like it, I think like it so that
813
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:06.239
was that was why we tried to do it in
814
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.239
the first place, was just to come up with something
815
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:12.719
that's the same but different, in the same realm but different,
816
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.400
and and have fun with it. And that's what we
817
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:19.599
tried to do. So I think it connects with certain
818
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:23.400
people and other people have no patience for it. So
819
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:24.760
I understand that too.
820
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:28.239
So, you know, you know, and speaking of you know,
821
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.480
actually you know, making the films, you know, could you
822
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:33.039
take us back to how did you actually cast Ron
823
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:35.519
Perlman in Poker Nights? You know, you know, how did
824
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:37.760
you go about contacting him and eventually casting him in
825
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:38.840
the movie?
826
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.320
Well, you know, I wish there were more romantic stories
827
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:44.280
about this kind of thing. But the casting process is
828
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:47.320
a very difficult thing. And I was, you know, coming
829
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:51.559
out of TV. It's different because people want to work
830
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.079
and I'm not working with high level actors on the
831
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:58.000
shows that I do. It's it's mostly new actors, so
832
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.239
it's very easy to get lots of auditions and go
833
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:04.599
through the auditions and make people audition again and find
834
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.559
the right person for the role. For this, we knew
835
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:10.360
we needed to get good actors, and we had a
836
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:16.880
casting director Chadwick Struck, who's really great and goes back
837
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:19.920
and forth between you know, some low budget stuff to
838
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.639
better budget stuff. He works a lot with Kevin Spacey's company,
839
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:27.440
and he just is a really great guy. But any
840
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.639
of these movies are hard to get because there isn't
841
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:34.159
a lot of money and you're just sort of throwing
842
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.480
throwing it against the wall until you get somebody to
843
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:41.599
say yes. I think with Poker and I on the page,
844
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.440
it could go either way. You don't know if it's
845
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:46.800
going to be, you know, a gory slasher film or
846
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:48.960
if it's going to be or played the more smart
847
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.519
parts of the script. So getting people to read it
848
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.000
and getting offers out that people were interested in it
849
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:57.760
took a while, I remember, and I was hitting every
850
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.880
character actor I could. I just had list of fifty
851
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:04.239
sixty names of the best in the business that I loved,
852
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.039
and we just you know, couldn't get responses a lot
853
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:10.119
of time. And so you go through. You make an
854
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:14.639
offer and it's a timed offer usually, so it'll be
855
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.000
X amount of money against X number of days, and
856
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:19.639
we need you to respond by next week, and you never,
857
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:23.559
even though they're required by law to give them the offer.
858
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:25.719
You never know if they do, you don't know what's
859
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:28.320
going on. And I was looking for older guys. So
860
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:30.039
some of these guys are like, I'd rather be out
861
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:32.920
in my boat fishing or whatever. So you never know
862
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.480
the truth of if they even read the script or
863
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:39.920
saw the script. And so we kept just making offer
864
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:42.639
after offer after offer, and we went back and forth too,
865
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:44.480
because you're like, well, do you get Jeter first, or
866
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:45.880
do you do you get the young guy first, or
867
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:47.840
do you get the old guys at the table, and
868
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.440
which is going to help the other. And I always
869
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:51.920
wanted to go for the older guys because those are
870
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.480
the guys that excite me anyway. But there was a
871
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.400
lot of thought that maybe we should get the lead first,
872
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.679
because if we get the right lead, it'll help position
873
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:04.639
the film to the old guys. And eventually it didn't matter.
874
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:07.840
It would be a lot of rejection. I want to say,
875
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:12.360
it might have almost even been a month, and some
876
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:14.480
people would you know, it wasn't really a rejection. It
877
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:16.280
would be the offer runs out and you don't know
878
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:23.679
what's happening. But truthfully, we got one actor who said yes,
879
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:27.440
and as soon as he said yes, we filled up
880
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:31.199
all the roles like super Fast. In fact, one of
881
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:34.639
the things that I would recommend, and I've heard other
882
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.519
people do, is that you can make a contingency offer
883
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:41.559
because a lot of a lot of these lower budget films,
884
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:44.840
you're you're doing Favored Nations. You know what that is, right, Yeah,
885
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:50.400
so everyone's getting kind of the similar offer. But I
886
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:52.719
did hear after that, you know, you can that there
887
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.639
is a thing called like first in bonus, because sometimes
888
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:58.000
it's just getting that name to make it a legitimate
889
00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:02.239
prog project. So as soon as you have somebody that
890
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:04.280
means something, all of a sudden it means something, and
891
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:07.199
then everyone else is in as afraid. So maybe there's
892
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:09.960
a you know, five grand. I don't know, five grand
893
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:12.119
is ridiculous. I don't even know what the number would be.
894
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.360
But there's a bonus for the guy that signs first,
895
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:18.079
because then everyone else came in. And literally, I think
896
00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:20.840
once we had that first name, we had everybody within
897
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:24.480
two weeks. And Prolman was a guy that you know,
898
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:28.760
I've loved forever. I've loved since Quest for Fire and
899
00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:34.440
really wanted him in. And he's funny because we did
900
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:36.000
the Q and A out here at the premiere in
901
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:40.440
LA and I was telling this story and he was like, well,
902
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:43.599
you know, because he wanted to play a certain role.
903
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:48.039
And I had three old guys at the table, and
904
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.480
the guy that Proman plays I always imagined as like
905
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:54.039
a forty year old guy. I wanted one guy in
906
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:58.360
between our young guy and the old guys, and so
907
00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:03.079
Prolman really wanted to play that heart and I kept going,
908
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:05.199
he's better for the other part. I want him as
909
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:06.440
one of the older guys, so I can get a
910
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:09.920
younger guy, you know, like a these are you know,
911
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.440
like a Mark Ruffalo that's a dreamcast, or you know,
912
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:15.679
even a John Cusack, some of these guys that are
913
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:18.719
really great that could sort of bridge that gap. And
914
00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:20.360
the word kept coming back, Nope, this is the one
915
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:22.519
he wants to play. And when I told the story,
916
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:24.039
Ron was like, well, if I would have known you
917
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:25.679
felt that way, I never would have pushed for it.
918
00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:28.639
And I'm like, no, it doesn't make any difference what
919
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.840
I thought, because Pearlman's great. And actually the producer said
920
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:34.880
to me, you really want to tell Ron Peerlman, though,
921
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:36.400
is that what you want to do? You don't want
922
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:38.639
him in the project just because you think that this
923
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:41.880
role should be this way. It is a really dumb thing.
924
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.519
So I was like, no, you're right, I'm an idiot
925
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:50.679
and one of many times and so I sort of
926
00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:53.760
I don't even I didn't even rewrite it. We just
927
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.559
changed it and gave it to Ron and my gosh,
928
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:59.039
he's he's the shining light in the film. He's amazing,
929
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:01.440
and he knocked it out of the park. I think
930
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:04.000
he felt like, well, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have
931
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:06.320
ever taken this role if it was that. But I'm like, man,
932
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:07.880
it's the best thing in the world that he took
933
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:09.320
this role. It's the best thing in the world. The
934
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:13.000
producer talked to me out of my foolishness, and and
935
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:15.920
he shines on the screen. He's amazing. In fact, we
936
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:19.920
got so lucky with all the actors. I can't I
937
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:22.559
couldn't even imagine that we would get a cast like that.
938
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.800
These guys are all brilliant, and I mostly just had
939
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:30.360
to sort of stay out of their way and let
940
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:33.480
them do their thing and learn, watch and learn a lot.
941
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:35.159
Just like Poker Knight.
942
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:39.000
It's that old saying when you have a great script,
943
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:41.559
you know, that's like half of the work done for
944
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.719
the director right there, so you know, because you can
945
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:47.960
always you know, go from that, you know, all the
946
00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:51.559
actors can go from the their actions, their dialogue, the subtext.
947
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.960
And then they said, you know, having a great DP
948
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:54.840
is like the other.
949
00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:58.760
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
950
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:03.639
and now back to the show.
951
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:07.119
You know, twenty percent, and he said, you know, there's
952
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:09.800
just like ten percent left where the directors it's up
953
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:12.519
to the director to screw it up. Have you ever
954
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:13.079
heard of Craig?
955
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.519
Yeah, yeah, I think that. I think there's a lot
956
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:19.320
of truth to that. Over the years of doing it,
957
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.920
I've I've really learned to sort of step back and
958
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:26.440
let people do their jobs and and I mean, you
959
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:30.760
get the credit anyway, unless they're really screwing up. People
960
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.920
still say nice things about me. But my gosh, the
961
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.760
crew we had, the DP I have, Brandon Cox, the
962
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:39.920
actors I have. You know, the things that are messed
963
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.559
up in the movie aren't my fault, and the things
964
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:46.639
that work, I really the credit belongs to everyone that
965
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:51.199
was up there. The Kadian crew was unbelievable. I just
966
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:53.519
felt really lucky and really blessed with the people I
967
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:56.239
got to work with, So, do.
968
00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:59.199
You have any other you know, tips for directing actors
969
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.960
that you've you know, have you accumulated over the years.
970
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:07.039
Boy, everybody's different, and you know you work with somebody.
971
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:13.320
Each one of them was different. Ron was very specific
972
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:15.400
and if I gave him a note on a line,
973
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.440
you could bet that that line would change. He was
974
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:24.159
very I was afraid. There's a couple of John Badam
975
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:26.400
books on directing. I don't know if you've seen those.
976
00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:28.599
I think it's like I'll be in my trailer and
977
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.599
I forget what the next one is. And it was
978
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:33.519
all these stories of him working with big actors and
979
00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:38.119
all the problems, and he collected him from generations, you know,
980
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:41.119
stuff with Steve McQueen and with other people were just
981
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:44.760
directors and actors clash. And so it wasn't that I
982
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:46.480
read that and was like, oh, I'm scared, but I
983
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.920
was very nervous going in of you know, who's this
984
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:52.039
guy that's done all this TV and you know, we
985
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:53.960
know what we're doing. We've done two hundred movies. And
986
00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:59.000
it's true. They all had, I think, knowing that I
987
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:00.960
wrote the script, and they all had a lot of
988
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:06.000
respect for the script, gave me more cachet. So there
989
00:52:06.039 --> 00:52:11.559
was never a time when anybody got grumpy with me
990
00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:15.480
or rude to me, or said shut up or you
991
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:17.840
don't know what you're doing. They were all very, very good.
992
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:20.320
But at the same time, I feel like I'm not
993
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:25.119
an overbearing director. I've learned over the years. One of
994
00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:27.760
the things that I usually do, and this is from
995
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:32.280
Poker Night even to my crime shows, is I sort
996
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:34.880
of set up the scene, this is what's happening, here's
997
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.719
your blocking, and then let them do the scene the
998
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:41.079
way that they've prepped it, because it could be way
999
00:52:41.079 --> 00:52:44.000
better than anything that I thought or that I would
1000
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:45.960
direct them to do. And so when you see it
1001
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:48.599
the first time, you're just like the audience, going wow,
1002
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:51.320
this could be amazing. And then if it sucks or
1003
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:54.840
it's bad, then you can come in and start leading
1004
00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:57.719
people a certain way. But I usually don't try. I
1005
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:01.960
mean on Poker knighte we didn't get to have rehearsal beforehand.
1006
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:04.519
You know, we're just thrown right into it. In fact,
1007
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.360
oh yeah, remind me. I'll go back and tell you
1008
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:13.960
one more casting story. But I tend to step back
1009
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:15.800
and see what people are going to bring to the
1010
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:20.400
project first and then go from there. But with these guys,
1011
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:23.360
they're all I mean, what could I tell them? You know,
1012
00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:28.239
these guys are all veteran actors, character actors who've been
1013
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:33.000
shooting hundreds of movies and I'm just the guy for
1014
00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:35.800
this one. But you know, they treated me with respect,
1015
00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:38.880
They listened to everything that I said, They changed things.
1016
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:40.920
They would if they felt I was leading them a
1017
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:43.400
wrong way. We would talk about that. Ron and I
1018
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:47.679
on our very first take, I was trying to do
1019
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:50.360
something that I thought was helpful and he sort of
1020
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:53.199
was like, well, I think the script, you know, is
1021
00:53:53.239 --> 00:53:56.480
this way, and it was really good. So they kept
1022
00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:58.920
me in line too, and I like anything, you know,
1023
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:04.119
you learn learn from the best. They were amazing, and
1024
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:07.199
it's just being patient. And I love actors. I started
1025
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.199
as I started in theater. I would never necessarily say
1026
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:14.159
I was an actor. But it's so much fun to
1027
00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:16.760
have people come to life and bring something to life
1028
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:18.719
that he did. And to get to work with these
1029
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:23.039
guys and have a process to allow them to relax
1030
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:26.719
and do their best work, that's something I cherish and
1031
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.079
really enjoy. So it was so much fun.
1032
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.719
You know, you mentioned having a big actor and you
1033
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:36.480
were kind of scared because you know, sometimes they might
1034
00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:38.719
be you know, used to a certain thing or a
1035
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:42.079
certain a certain way. I actually, you know, just to
1036
00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:45.559
you know, just to compliment that story, I have a
1037
00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:48.519
friend of mine and he was shooting a movie here
1038
00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:51.960
in PA and he shot an Eastern State penitentiary and
1039
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:56.519
the actor was notorious for just going off of the
1040
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:59.960
director at random times. And he was relieved at the
1041
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:01.800
end because they didn't have a fight at all. They
1042
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:06.119
they actually got along well. And he at the you know,
1043
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:07.960
as they were leaving for the day, he came up
1044
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:09.760
to him and he's like, hey, you know, it's amazing
1045
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.639
we got along and and everything. And the guy said, yeah,
1046
00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:14.719
well see tomorrow and he said no, no, we're done. The
1047
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:17.519
movie's over. And he's like, what the what the fuck
1048
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:20.480
do you mean the movie's over? And he goes, well,
1049
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:22.119
that was it. We got every all the footage and
1050
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.960
we we're all good. And he goes, what the fuck
1051
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:26.920
and he said he just lost it for no reason.
1052
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:31.280
For telling him the movie was done. I got and
1053
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:34.920
so yeah, you know, but you're right, though, you know,
1054
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:38.639
you know, I would still there's certain actors I would
1055
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:40.440
just love to work with. But I'm always, you know,
1056
00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:43.159
hesitant because you know, there's different experience levels and there's
1057
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:45.760
different expectations, and you know, and some people just have
1058
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:48.360
bad days, you know. Yeah, so you just got to
1059
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:50.039
sort of ride the storm and see, you know where
1060
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:53.800
that takes you, right, Yeah, And you know, I don't know,
1061
00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:55.960
everyone has a different approach. I've been doing it a
1062
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:59.079
long time, but at that level and the way that
1063
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.599
those guys probably not at their level.
1064
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:07.159
But I'm also I come in pretty it's not hat
1065
00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:09.599
in hand, but you know, I don't feel any need
1066
00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:14.800
to throw down some kind of you know, I'm the
1067
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:16.760
guy in charge and this is how we're going to
1068
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:19.639
do it, and you're on my train. I'm know, David Fincher,
1069
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:22.920
I'm no James Cameron. I don't. That's not my skill
1070
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:28.280
set yet, I don't. I'm just a guy that wrote
1071
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.079
a script and I'm happy to be here and ecstatic
1072
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:34.079
to be working with you guys. And so, you know,
1073
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:37.679
I was very I talked to each of them to say, well,
1074
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:41.239
this will feed into that casting story. So part of
1075
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:44.440
making these offers is, you know, you hear all the time.
1076
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.119
While I went and met with this guy and we
1077
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:48.519
talked about if this, if they would be right for
1078
00:56:48.559 --> 00:56:53.039
the part, how they saw things well on this level
1079
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:55.559
of filmmaking. You don't. I mean, I wasn't allowed to
1080
00:56:55.559 --> 00:57:00.320
talk to anybody. The agents refuse to allow me to
1081
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:02.679
have a conversation to even be like, well, are they
1082
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.360
right for this? Do they hate this script? Have they
1083
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:08.199
read the script? Do they decide they want to play
1084
00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:12.000
it in address? You know, I don't get any feel
1085
00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:14.800
at all other than their body of work and how
1086
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:19.880
amazing they seem to be because they don't. You know,
1087
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:21.880
Proman might get on the phone with me and all
1088
00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:25.440
of a sudden think I'm a good guy and then say, well,
1089
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:27.400
you know, tell his agent make the deal. I don't
1090
00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:28.840
care what it is. I want to work with him,
1091
00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:31.159
or the opposite. He might say forget it, I don't
1092
00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:33.239
want to do it. And the agents are already not
1093
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:37.440
happy because you're taking their actor on a small film,
1094
00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:40.320
and that's time that they can't be making money on
1095
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:43.960
a big film. So it's a hard process to get in,
1096
00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:46.800
and it wasn't until they accept the offer. But then
1097
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:50.400
I get a phone number and I can call them,
1098
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:52.320
So now they're already in the movie. I don't know
1099
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:54.159
if they like me, if they like the script, if
1100
00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:57.239
we can work together, any of it. So it's a
1101
00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:59.719
scary call and you have to get on the phone
1102
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:02.159
and say, hey, I hope you liked everything. Let's get
1103
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:05.880
to know each other. How do you what's your take
1104
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:09.199
on this character? And it's all after the fact, so
1105
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:13.840
it's a really I mean, I was in amazing hands.
1106
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:16.239
It wasn't like I was going to somebody that's never
1107
00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:18.320
done anything and all of a sudden they're hired. And
1108
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.920
it wasn't. None of these guys had a reputation of
1109
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:25.239
being you know, crazy or anything. They're all brilliant actors,
1110
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.920
but it's still that feeling of it's the cart before
1111
00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:30.840
the horse a little bit that we can't even have
1112
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:33.440
a chance to make sure we can get along because
1113
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:35.559
some people you just don't get along with. So it
1114
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:37.880
was a very frightening thing. But with each of them,
1115
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:40.639
I was very clear, Look, you know, I've done TV,
1116
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:43.280
I haven't done a film. I did write this. This
1117
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.840
is how I see things. If you have a process
1118
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:48.800
different than what my process is, tell me the best
1119
00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:52.400
way that I can help you. You know, this is
1120
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:55.199
how I approach it. How do you approach it. I know.
1121
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:57.559
Ron El Dard was one that he told me right away.
1122
00:58:57.599 --> 00:58:59.440
He's like, look, you don't have to come in and
1123
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.000
play any kind of games with me. I don't need
1124
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.000
to know, you know, think about this or think about that.
1125
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:07.719
You just tell me exactly what you want. Say it faster,
1126
00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:10.719
say what you want. I think you should be angry here.
1127
00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:13.400
I don't like how you said that word. He wanted
1128
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:15.880
me to be very specific and not waste time on
1129
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:20.679
trying to manage him or direct him in a different way,
1130
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:22.840
because you know how it is. You will be like, well,
1131
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:25.000
you know. I was thinking, you know, you've had this
1132
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:26.760
part and you've come in here and you're trying to
1133
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:28.199
set the scene to get him to a way that
1134
00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:29.719
you want him to be. And he was just like,
1135
00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:32.880
just tell exactly it. There was another actor on set
1136
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:36.480
that was unbelievable in a smaller part, Lochlin Monroe. He
1137
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:43.159
played the serial killing photographer and he's been on so
1138
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.719
many sets and done he was in Unforgiven. He's been
1139
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:50.920
in the the a lot of the Wayn Brothers movies,
1140
00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:54.760
and he could tell the cameraman every time he would
1141
00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:56.800
cross behind the actor, Okay, I'm getting ready to bring
1142
00:59:56.800 --> 00:59:59.480
out the knife on one, two, three, and then you
1143
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:02.239
know he was like directing the cameras.
1144
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:05.679
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
1145
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:10.599
and now back to the show.
1146
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:14.679
That they never missed any parts of his performance in
1147
01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:18.679
the middle of his performance. I've never seen that. And
1148
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:20.880
he was brilliant in the film. So there was a
1149
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.199
lot of everyone has a different process and you sort
1150
01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:26.239
of start learning. But I think the best thing you
1151
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:28.239
can be, at least for me on the first film,
1152
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.960
was to be very flexible and fluid, especially because I
1153
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:35.960
mean these are top top actors. They're not you know,
1154
01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:39.679
the money makers that a Tom Cruise is, but man,
1155
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:42.679
they can just act circles around so many of our
1156
01:00:42.679 --> 01:00:46.480
big celebrities. They're just really really good. Yeah.
1157
01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:49.199
It's also sort of like what dov ss Simon says
1158
01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:51.599
in his book, you know, from Realer Deal. He always
1159
01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:54.639
recommends seeing the actors, why don't we try it this way?
1160
01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:57.760
Yeah, And they were totally open to everything. There was
1161
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:05.119
one there was only one time that one of the
1162
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:07.800
actors was like, I'm not going to do that. It
1163
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:10.000
was a pretty funny thing. I asked him to do
1164
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:11.719
something that was a little bit crazy and he's like,
1165
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:13.440
I'm not doing that. And then the next day he
1166
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:16.199
told me I really should have done that, which, you know,
1167
01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:20.079
they're masters at games to all those guys, and so
1168
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:23.159
they were directing me as much as I was directing them,
1169
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:24.360
you know.
1170
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:26.960
I once, you know, I was talking to a friend
1171
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:28.639
of mine, Gary King, who I'm him to have on
1172
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:31.039
the podcast, and he said one thing he learned while
1173
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:33.599
making all the student films and short films was that
1174
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:37.639
you have to take after each take, direct the actors
1175
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:39.400
in a certain way. That way, when you go to edit,
1176
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:41.880
you have different things to choose from, because he used
1177
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:45.639
to have actors basically do scenes, I'm sorry, each each
1178
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:48.000
take of a scene the exact same way. And then
1179
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:49.559
when he was editing, he's like, man, I got nothing
1180
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:51.920
really to choose from. It's, you know, it's either take
1181
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:53.719
one where she says it like this, or take two
1182
01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:55.360
where she says it exactly the same way. You know.
1183
01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:02.559
Yeah, I can see that. I think I can see that.
1184
01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:06.760
I don't know that I've ever done that. Partly, I
1185
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.960
feel like you're heading down a path that you know
1186
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.039
where you want to get to, and you can feel
1187
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:17.199
it when it's there, and even just to get what
1188
01:02:17.239 --> 01:02:23.280
you want correct takes some time, so you know, it
1189
01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:24.840
might take three or four takes to get it where
1190
01:02:24.880 --> 01:02:27.599
you want it, and then you want to get it
1191
01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:31.519
right if they were doing something different every single time. Partly,
1192
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:33.320
I mean, I think it depends too on the kind
1193
01:02:33.320 --> 01:02:35.639
of director you are, if you're making your show more
1194
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:39.559
in the edit room, or if you're locking on set
1195
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:42.880
to what you're going to do in the edit room,
1196
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.599
and I do, I would say I would subscribe more
1197
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:49.599
to it if I feel like we've really knocked it
1198
01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:52.760
out of the park on the first set of coverage, Well,
1199
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:56.000
let's try something different on this one and do one
1200
01:02:56.079 --> 01:02:59.960
or two takes that way. But it's tough when you
1201
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:02.400
don't have a lot of time and you're moving fast
1202
01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:06.360
on a low budget film to have because then you're
1203
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.400
going well on your wide shot. If you do five
1204
01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:10.840
different versions, then you're going to go to your over
1205
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:12.599
or your medium shot, and now you've got to do
1206
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:15.360
five different versions and they better match the first five versions,
1207
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:17.880
and then you're close up those all better match those
1208
01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:23.280
first five, and how delineated are those five. So I
1209
01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:25.719
think that it can work, and especially maybe on a comedy,
1210
01:03:26.840 --> 01:03:28.480
I could see that a lot more because there's a
1211
01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:32.320
lot more room for that. But I've I haven't done
1212
01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:34.719
too much that way. I think that it's an interesting
1213
01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:38.119
idea and if you have all the if you have
1214
01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:39.639
a lot of time, I think it'd be a great
1215
01:03:39.639 --> 01:03:42.360
thing to explore. I just I guess I haven't had
1216
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:43.199
that luxury yet.
1217
01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:46.239
Yeah, I definitely agree. Would definitely work better on a
1218
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:47.880
comedy because that way you could at least have that
1219
01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:50.679
juxtaposition of like, you know, he's supposed to say this,
1220
01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:53.239
but he's angry, and it's you know, stuff like that.
1221
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:55.760
So yeah, I I you know, I see exactly what
1222
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:59.400
you mean, and you know, but no, you know, a
1223
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:01.719
lot of would always come up with his food for thought,
1224
01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:03.440
and it's just you know, that's why I love creating
1225
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:05.760
this dialogue, just to see, Yeah, it's awesome.
1226
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:08.519
And I think too, like if you're really exploring something,
1227
01:04:08.559 --> 01:04:14.360
there's something interesting too to making that happen. I mean,
1228
01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:18.599
Fincher's famous for one hundred takes, but I've had people
1229
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:20.119
that have been on his sets and they say he's
1230
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:22.800
not really directing him much. He's just making him do
1231
01:04:22.840 --> 01:04:24.719
it again, do it again, do it again, do it again.
1232
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:27.920
Until you're not acting anymore. You're just talking because you're
1233
01:04:28.039 --> 01:04:31.760
exhausted and you don't know what he wants. But doing
1234
01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:33.599
things different ways, I think there is a way that
1235
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:35.920
would be interesting to explore that way. Well, what if
1236
01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:37.119
we did it like this? What if we did it
1237
01:04:37.159 --> 01:04:38.800
like this and all of a sudden something new comes
1238
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:43.880
out of that scene that wasn't there before. I just
1239
01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:45.599
I've never done it that way, but I think it's
1240
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:46.480
an interesting why.
1241
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:48.440
It's very interesting, you know.
1242
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:48.920
Uh.
1243
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:51.480
One technique I link to do is I actually, on
1244
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.719
the last take, I just let the actors I say,
1245
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:56.599
I'm not going to give you any direction, and I'm
1246
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.519
going to let you just whatever acting decision you want
1247
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:01.760
to make, that's what we're going to roll with, and
1248
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:04.079
just to see what they would come up with, and
1249
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:06.000
you know, and so that that and also makes the
1250
01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:08.079
actors happy because now they're saying, oh good, we get
1251
01:05:08.119 --> 01:05:09.920
to have some you know, some input on this scene.
1252
01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:10.079
You know.
1253
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:15.000
So uh, you know, you know that That's just what
1254
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:16.840
I've sort of learned of the years too. I don't
1255
01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:17.840
know if it helps much.
1256
01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:20.079
But I think it's a great idea. I usually do
1257
01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:22.159
that on the first take, where I'm like, well, let's see,
1258
01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:23.480
let's see what you want to do. Let's go out,
1259
01:05:23.559 --> 01:05:25.440
let's just try it. Let's see what it is and
1260
01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:28.639
see what they're doing, and then I'll gradually move them
1261
01:05:28.679 --> 01:05:33.159
towards what is in my mind influenced by what they did,
1262
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:35.440
unless what they did was so brilliant, which is what
1263
01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:38.920
happened a lot with our with our poker guys. And
1264
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:40.599
then in the end, a lot of times I'll circle
1265
01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:42.199
back around and say you want to try something different
1266
01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:44.639
and let them do a different one, and sometimes that
1267
01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:47.679
changes the whole scene and then you go, all right, no,
1268
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:49.800
I really like that take on it, and hadn't thought
1269
01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:51.760
of that before. Now let's go back and redo the
1270
01:05:51.760 --> 01:05:54.519
wide shot and redo this and switch things around because
1271
01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:58.440
it's so good because you usually start conservative and then
1272
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:00.519
you get a little bit crazier as you go, so
1273
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:01.559
it's all fun.
1274
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:06.039
Oh yeah, absolutely, And you know it's always you know,
1275
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:07.719
I usually keep I end up keeping like a journal
1276
01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:10.079
of every day shooting, and you know what I learned there,
1277
01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:11.679
and you know how to do all this stuff that way,
1278
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.000
it carries over well into you know, your next projects.
1279
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:15.559
When you're like, you know, looking through the back over
1280
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:17.519
that stuff and you're like, oh, well, I remember this stuff.
1281
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:20.440
It's a great idea. I've never done that. That's a
1282
01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:24.320
really great idea. Oh thank especial right as I get
1283
01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:26.599
older and I can't remember stuff anymore as well as
1284
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:27.079
I used to.
1285
01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:31.360
Oh, I'm glad I was able to, you know, give
1286
01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:32.119
you that great idea.
1287
01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:33.960
You know.
1288
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.760
Uh, so you know with Poker Night, now you know
1289
01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:38.960
it's on iTunes, you know, could you sort of go
1290
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:42.000
through how you got you know, digital distribution for it,
1291
01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:44.679
you know, why you chose iTunes and uh, you know,
1292
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:47.199
you know, is it company Netflix? Stuff like that?
1293
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:55.320
Yeah, I'm sure it is. I didn't choose it. The producer. Uh,
1294
01:06:55.400 --> 01:06:57.719
the producer did it. And and actually we were picked
1295
01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:01.760
up prior we we we we're really close to being
1296
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:03.960
in south By Southwest last year. We were one of
1297
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:06.639
the finalists and then I guess we're one of the
1298
01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:10.920
last two cut and that hurt. But we had a
1299
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.800
lot of interest in the film then and Accelerator Media
1300
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:16.760
is the one that picked up the film right after that,
1301
01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:22.239
and they're an amazing company. They've done really well for
1302
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:25.559
us as far as I would know. They got us
1303
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:29.079
a lot of our online Press and they put it
1304
01:07:29.119 --> 01:07:31.159
immediately on I think on the fifth it went on
1305
01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:36.039
video on demand and on Amazon, and it didn't hit
1306
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:38.519
iTunes until a couple of weeks after that, and we
1307
01:07:38.559 --> 01:07:43.519
had a week run here in La at A Theater,
1308
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:50.199
and it's internationally. There's streams in every language already, but
1309
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:53.960
it opened in Iraq, Iran, in Egypt, so it's like
1310
01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:57.079
conquering the Middle East. That's who we speak, or at
1311
01:07:57.159 --> 01:08:00.760
least it's playing in the Middle East. I get tweets
1312
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:07.159
from Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, a lot from England recently, and
1313
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:13.480
I think now that it's it's out there legally a
1314
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:15.840
lot more people are seeing it. But here you can
1315
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:18.479
get it iTunes, you can get it on a vod
1316
01:08:18.520 --> 01:08:21.319
It's on Amazon and it should be coming to I
1317
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:24.079
think it's coming out on DVD in February, and then
1318
01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:28.640
probably right after that it'll hit Netflix. Oh, very cool, because.
1319
01:08:28.479 --> 01:08:30.760
I'm actually I didn't know it was on Amazon, but
1320
01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:32.079
I'll make sure to link to that in the show
1321
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:35.439
notes if you want to check it out. Yeah, that's awesome,
1322
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:38.520
you know, because I had Jason Brubaker on, who's like
1323
01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:42.199
a digital distribution mastermind and He's always talking about you know,
1324
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:45.359
different ways and you know which you know, there's really
1325
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:48.279
no correct answer for the right platform, so to speak.
1326
01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:50.680
You know, so if you chose iTunes, you know, is
1327
01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:53.520
there really a big difference between that and Amazon? Well,
1328
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:55.359
I mean I don't know enough to comment, but I mean,
1329
01:08:55.399 --> 01:08:59.119
really what I hear is basically the answer is not really,
1330
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:02.039
because you know, everyone's fighting over you know space, It's
1331
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:05.119
still you know, you know there's a store window where
1332
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:07.279
you know people would walk by. Well, now you know
1333
01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:09.399
the front page of iTunes is that new store window
1334
01:09:09.560 --> 01:09:11.640
where everyone wants to fight for retail space.
1335
01:09:12.119 --> 01:09:16.239
Yep. So it's been a very interesting thing. And also,
1336
01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:21.520
you know, just the distribution model is different, Like Accelerator
1337
01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:25.079
had somebody that was just getting lots of placement on
1338
01:09:25.119 --> 01:09:28.560
different websites for articles, or they did a lot of
1339
01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:30.399
clips of the movie. In fact, at one pointment I
1340
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:31.720
was like, pretty soon we'll be able to see the
1341
01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:36.600
whole movie just through clips. But you would think, well,
1342
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:40.279
it's going to run. I don't know who knows, I
1343
01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:42.760
don't know what the digital model is, but maybe it's
1344
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:45.079
going to run like three weeks before the movie opens,
1345
01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:49.000
and then once it opens it tapers off.
1346
01:09:50.560 --> 01:09:53.079
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
1347
01:09:56.680 --> 01:09:57.960
and now back to the show.
1348
01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:02.279
But it it was a lot longer tail where I'm
1349
01:10:02.319 --> 01:10:05.399
still getting reports. I mean they're still putting getting reviews
1350
01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:07.680
and websites that are talking about the movie. We just
1351
01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:11.399
had an interview on Fangora Go up yesterday and it
1352
01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:14.880
came out on Amazon and vod on the fifth of December,
1353
01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:19.039
and it wasn't until close to the twentieth i think,
1354
01:10:19.079 --> 01:10:25.000
on iTunes, So you know, just getting it out there
1355
01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:28.640
and getting it around. It seems to be that their
1356
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:31.439
take is it's a lot longer window. You try and
1357
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.800
hit a lot more sites, and you keep the publicity
1358
01:10:34.840 --> 01:10:38.640
going because it can always drive somebody there, and it
1359
01:10:38.720 --> 01:10:42.439
is I think in this climate, just getting anybody even
1360
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:45.000
know about the movie is the hardest part, especially if
1361
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:47.199
you're not running you know, a thirty second ad every
1362
01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:50.279
two minutes on TV, So just having anybody even know
1363
01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:52.039
that it's out there, it takes a lot more time
1364
01:10:52.079 --> 01:10:52.640
and energy.
1365
01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:56.800
Oh yeah, absolutely. Somebody one's mentioned to me recently it's
1366
01:10:56.800 --> 01:11:00.399
not money that's in shorte now, it's a tensions.
1367
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:02.359
Yeah, And he.
1368
01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:05.399
Said, you know, he actually got money for his project,
1369
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:06.640
and he's like, you know, trying to get the word
1370
01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:09.039
out there. It's like, you know, it's a very crowded marketplace.
1371
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:15.319
Yeah, it's very tough, and especially, you know, the line
1372
01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:17.520
is so much more divided. What used to be, you know,
1373
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:21.000
a good you know, two million to five million dollar
1374
01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:23.920
film is a five hundred thousand dollars film now, and
1375
01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:27.319
you're in the same ballpark as you know, a thousand
1376
01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:30.119
other films trying to get the same eyeballs and with
1377
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:33.000
no money, and so it's it's a difficult time to
1378
01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:35.640
sort of step out and stand out from the pack.
1379
01:11:37.479 --> 01:11:40.119
But it's also an amazing time because you know, ten
1380
01:11:40.199 --> 01:11:42.159
years ago, none of those films would get made, or
1381
01:11:42.279 --> 01:11:45.319
very few of them, just because it was cost prohibitive.
1382
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:47.279
And now there's so many more ways to get your
1383
01:11:47.319 --> 01:11:50.439
film out there. It's just we've got to find a
1384
01:11:50.439 --> 01:11:55.199
good economic model to be able to sustain this new
1385
01:11:55.239 --> 01:11:56.159
way of doing things.
1386
01:11:57.119 --> 01:11:59.000
Yeah, you know, very true, and you sort of see
1387
01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:02.039
how it's sort of forming right now, where basically everyone
1388
01:12:02.119 --> 01:12:04.760
is getting their own you know, all their own content
1389
01:12:04.760 --> 01:12:08.520
on their own websites, you know, Netflix, HBO, Go, they're
1390
01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:11.279
sort of taking their things off Hulu and Netflix and
1391
01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:13.399
just sort of saying, hey, we're going to just be
1392
01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:15.319
here from now on, and you you have to subscribe
1393
01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:19.239
to us. And that's why. Now Netflix and Hulu creating
1394
01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:21.159
their own content, and pretty much everyone now is looking
1395
01:12:21.159 --> 01:12:22.680
for their own comment. Even Amazon is looking for their
1396
01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:23.359
own content. Now.
1397
01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:26.680
Yeah, back Run's got a new series on Amazon that's
1398
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:28.800
really great if you get a chance to see that.
1399
01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:32.199
Oh sure, which is that it's called the Hand of God.
1400
01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:34.640
They just did the pilot. But I think that he's
1401
01:12:35.439 --> 01:12:38.079
I think that he's wrapped the series, so I don't
1402
01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:41.920
know how many episodes. It's probably ten, and it'll it'll
1403
01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:45.680
quite be February March, maybe even later that it's going
1404
01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:48.000
to come out. But the pilot's up on Amazon now.
1405
01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:49.479
It's really good.
1406
01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:52.520
Okay, let's I'll make sure to link to that to
1407
01:12:52.560 --> 01:12:53.199
the show notes.
1408
01:12:53.479 --> 01:12:59.239
I thinks Titus too. His Amazon series Bosh starts in February.
1409
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:03.800
He's already wrapped that, so he's got another one. So
1410
01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:08.920
both those guys went immediately to Amazon series right after
1411
01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:12.920
the film, which is great. It's giving good actors a
1412
01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:15.720
lot of life and things that maybe they I don't
1413
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:17.800
know if they for whatever reason they wouldn't say that
1414
01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:19.920
they could carry a network show in a certain way,
1415
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:22.279
and these guys had the freedom to do this and
1416
01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:25.520
make these characters their own. So they both really enjoyed it.
1417
01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:28.720
And that's really cool. And it's also more opportunities for
1418
01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:31.359
everybody too, because you know, it's going to be more directors.
1419
01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:34.520
And somebody I was at a meeting at the Writers
1420
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:36.960
Guild and they were saying there were three hundred, over
1421
01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:41.560
three hundred drama series on TV last year, over three hundred.
1422
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:48.159
That's just unprecedented. So there's a lot more opportunity, and
1423
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:51.359
I think that's sadly in some ways, I think that's
1424
01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:54.159
the direction independent film is moving to. Those people that
1425
01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:56.359
sort of were in that sweet spot in the market
1426
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:58.039
are all gravitating towards TV.
1427
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.159
I can definitely see that as well. And and you know,
1428
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:07.119
and also too, there's so many independent film channels now too,
1429
01:14:07.119 --> 01:14:11.720
which which just you know, specialized independent film, and you know,
1430
01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:13.359
you go on there and you're like, wow, there's like
1431
01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:15.720
a couple of thousand choices of movies that have been
1432
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:17.399
made and you know, in the past five years that
1433
01:14:17.439 --> 01:14:20.680
are all independent films, and it's just you know, you
1434
01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:22.359
you don't have enough time to watch them all, you know,
1435
01:14:22.439 --> 01:14:24.720
any given time, because it's always getting new ones in there.
1436
01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:28.640
So you know, it's very Yeah, it's very interesting to
1437
01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:29.960
see what this is all where it is all going
1438
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:32.239
to go, and you know, which eventually is going to
1439
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:34.680
become the new market model in both of terms of
1440
01:14:34.720 --> 01:14:37.800
payment and distribution and you know, and you know, and
1441
01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:39.720
net neutrality too. You got to make sure that you know,
1442
01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:42.079
stays where it is or else you know, it's all
1443
01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:44.920
sort of for nothing because if there's you know, there's
1444
01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:47.720
different you know, levels of Internet, then you know, some
1445
01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:50.039
people who don't you can't afford the big stuff, you know,
1446
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:54.000
will you know, get became of trouble watching things online.
1447
01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:57.960
Yeah, there's a lot of big issues that are coming
1448
01:14:58.039 --> 01:15:04.319
up and interesting issues, and it's you know, you've been
1449
01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:07.840
around this business for a long time too. It's not
1450
01:15:07.920 --> 01:15:12.880
like it's so much more of a middle class business
1451
01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:15.399
than people think, at least for people in the tech side,
1452
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:20.119
from the writing, directing, producing, even the acting side. There's
1453
01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:22.039
the you know, the five to ten percent that are
1454
01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:24.800
really ridiculously wealthy and the rest of us are sort
1455
01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:28.960
of grinding at our time because we love this I
1456
01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:31.560
didn't get into this to become wealthy. I got into
1457
01:15:31.560 --> 01:15:33.439
this because I love to tell stories, and I love
1458
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:36.840
working with people, and I love that collaboration, and I
1459
01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:39.039
thank God that I'm able to pay my rent doing it.
1460
01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:44.479
But nobody's like stockpiling millions and driving a BMW. You know,
1461
01:15:44.479 --> 01:15:47.840
we're still all Honda Toyota guys, trying to go to
1462
01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:49.520
work each day and make enough money to pay your
1463
01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:52.079
rent at the end of the month. And mostly just
1464
01:15:52.079 --> 01:15:55.199
because we do love this. This is I can't imagine
1465
01:15:55.239 --> 01:15:58.319
doing anything else. Just feel very lucky and thankful and
1466
01:15:58.359 --> 01:16:01.880
blessed each day on whatever level of production you get
1467
01:16:01.880 --> 01:16:05.079
to be involved in. It's it's a great way to
1468
01:16:05.199 --> 01:16:07.600
make a living. It's a hard way to make a living,
1469
01:16:07.640 --> 01:16:11.800
but man it I can't imagine doing anything else. It's
1470
01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:12.439
so much fun.
1471
01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:16.560
Oh yeah, I completely agree. You know, it's like Ted Hope,
1472
01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:19.079
he actually left in Penta filmmaking and then now he's back.
1473
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:20.239
It's just it's an addiction.
1474
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:24.239
It is addiction. You're absolutely right, Greg.
1475
01:16:24.279 --> 01:16:26.720
I actually a few questions for people wrote in If
1476
01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:30.479
you don't mind, I'll just pick like the best three.
1477
01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:33.640
The first question is, uh, do you have to live
1478
01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:35.199
in l A to become a screenwriter.
1479
01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:44.000
Nope, especially not now. I think the caveat to that
1480
01:16:44.039 --> 01:16:51.880
would be, Uh, it sure helps. I was in Indiana
1481
01:16:52.319 --> 01:16:58.199
when Poker Night first. I was in the trades, uh,
1482
01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:01.560
with the First Incarnate when we had Sam Jackson in
1483
01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:05.640
and suddenly I had agents for writing, and I had,
1484
01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:07.920
you know, forty to fifty meetings with all the different
1485
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:12.039
studios and all the little studios, and I had to
1486
01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:15.479
fly out every time, and then I had to do
1487
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:17.119
a lot of stuff on the phone, And so you go,
1488
01:17:18.960 --> 01:17:20.880
is it easier if you're here? It sure is easier.
1489
01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:22.920
If somebody calls your agent says, hey, that guy that
1490
01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:24.560
wrote that thing that we read last week, can we
1491
01:17:24.560 --> 01:17:26.560
get him in here today, And they're like, no, he
1492
01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:28.239
doesn't live here, but.
1493
01:17:28.199 --> 01:17:29.039
We could do a phone.
1494
01:17:29.119 --> 01:17:31.840
They might be like, eh, we'll get somebody else in then,
1495
01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:36.439
so I think. But once you've made it, I don't
1496
01:17:36.439 --> 01:17:39.920
know if it matters as much. And the industry is
1497
01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:42.760
getting smaller, but boy, it's hard to get that lightning
1498
01:17:42.800 --> 01:17:44.560
in a bottle for that first script to get people
1499
01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:48.119
interested and wanting to meet with you. And I think
1500
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:51.840
being out here helps, and especially I mean I wasn't here,
1501
01:17:52.039 --> 01:17:54.800
so it was really and probably you see the movie
1502
01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:56.840
and you're like, well, that script shouldn't have gotten any attention.
1503
01:17:57.399 --> 01:18:01.720
But I think for some of the script that aren't
1504
01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:06.600
one thousand percent great, but maybe they're only eighty percent great.
1505
01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:10.199
It sure helps to know low level executives, the low
1506
01:18:10.319 --> 01:18:12.920
level assistance people that you can give your script to
1507
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:14.720
that'll read it and then push it up to their boss.
1508
01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:16.680
And you don't get to do that unless you're out here.
1509
01:18:17.079 --> 01:18:18.960
So I do think that there are advantages to it.
1510
01:18:19.319 --> 01:18:22.920
But I would wait until the last possible second. I
1511
01:18:22.960 --> 01:18:25.920
would get two three scripts under your belt and then
1512
01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:28.039
come out when you're ready blow up the town and
1513
01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:31.079
then you can get out. Yeah.
1514
01:18:31.479 --> 01:18:34.159
And you know, it's like what Quentin Tarantino said about,
1515
01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:36.399
you know, making a first project. He said, oh, just
1516
01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:37.439
make Reservoir Dogs.
1517
01:18:38.359 --> 01:18:40.760
Yeah, exactly. Had I went to one of the first
1518
01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:42.319
things I went to out here was the guys that
1519
01:18:42.359 --> 01:18:47.399
wrote Batman Forever, and they had written a script before
1520
01:18:47.439 --> 01:18:50.000
that that was a brilliant script, but no one had
1521
01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:52.479
seen Batman Forever yet, and everyone was asking, well, how
1522
01:18:52.479 --> 01:18:53.640
do you do this, how do you do that? And
1523
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:56.439
they kept going, just write a great script and everything
1524
01:18:56.600 --> 01:18:59.119
will happen for you. And I was so angry at
1525
01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:01.600
the time, and like, what does that mean? And how
1526
01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:05.439
do you write a great script? And you know, it's
1527
01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:09.000
almost a blowof and it also implies that they wrote
1528
01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:12.760
all these great scripts and that man forever sucked. So
1529
01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:15.760
I was even angrier after I saw that. But I
1530
01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:18.279
do think there's some I mean, there's some truth to
1531
01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:23.119
Once you have material that people want, you're in a
1532
01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:28.359
whole different place. You control a lot of things. They
1533
01:19:28.399 --> 01:19:30.600
have to come to you to get it. At the
1534
01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:33.880
same time, you know, if you write a great script,
1535
01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:38.039
shoot it. If you're in Indiana, if you're in Pennsylvania,
1536
01:19:38.079 --> 01:19:41.000
if you're in Georgia, get friends together and do it.
1537
01:19:41.119 --> 01:19:43.239
Write something that you can do, and you come out
1538
01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:45.520
here with a project that's good. You're in a whole
1539
01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:49.960
different world and you're treated completely different than somebody that
1540
01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:53.960
wants people to give you something or that you want
1541
01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:56.680
to give you a chance. You've already taken that from them,
1542
01:19:56.720 --> 01:19:58.920
and you've given yourself permission and done it yourself.
1543
01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:03.039
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
1544
01:20:06.640 --> 01:20:07.920
and now back to the show.
1545
01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:15.199
And then and then the world is different Hopefully it's
1546
01:20:15.239 --> 01:20:19.359
a good film and it's a good project. But it's hard.
1547
01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:22.880
It's a it's a hard game, and uh, being out here,
1548
01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:26.039
I think at the beginning anyway, making those contacts and
1549
01:20:26.439 --> 01:20:28.239
working your way up is a good way to go,
1550
01:20:28.479 --> 01:20:32.159
although it's changing fast. Uh you know.
1551
01:20:32.199 --> 01:20:34.479
That kind of answers the second question as well, which was,
1552
01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:37.560
once I had a screenplay written and finalized, what should
1553
01:20:37.560 --> 01:20:38.359
be my next step?
1554
01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:43.359
Get everybody to read it, anybody that you can, and
1555
01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:45.600
have them tell you all the things that they hate
1556
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:47.840
and don't like, and give it to people that will
1557
01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:51.960
be honest with you. I have I have a group
1558
01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:55.800
of writers across the country from Virginia to Midwest out
1559
01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:58.560
here that I've worked with over the years, and man,
1560
01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:01.039
before we shot Poker Night, I send it to all
1561
01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:03.800
of them again and they've read it over that ten years,
1562
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:05.760
and I'm like, look, I'm about to shoot. Don't let
1563
01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:08.920
me make an ass out of myself. Tell me what sucks,
1564
01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:12.640
because this is the last chance. And I don't know
1565
01:21:12.680 --> 01:21:15.079
if they did good enough job. There's all some problems
1566
01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:19.039
that you know, you have to cultivate those those people
1567
01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:21.479
and then anyone that you know, you just give it
1568
01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:23.520
to them, and you keep trying to find somebody that's
1569
01:21:23.560 --> 01:21:26.319
going to get it to somebody that means something. And
1570
01:21:26.439 --> 01:21:28.800
I would say, why you've done that. You better be
1571
01:21:28.840 --> 01:21:31.560
writing more. Don't think that this is the one that's
1572
01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:34.279
going to do it, because it's probably ninety nine percent
1573
01:21:34.359 --> 01:21:38.920
chance that it won't. You need to have more than
1574
01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:41.359
one script, and they need to be getting better and
1575
01:21:41.439 --> 01:21:43.239
they need to see something. And then the truth is,
1576
01:21:43.239 --> 01:21:45.640
is the way the business is now unless you're making
1577
01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:50.199
it yourself. There wasn't anybody that I had a meeting
1578
01:21:50.239 --> 01:21:53.000
with on Poker Night and it all starts the same way.
1579
01:21:53.199 --> 01:21:55.359
Oh we love the script, it's a great script. We
1580
01:21:55.439 --> 01:21:58.359
have these projects. Would you be interested in this? They
1581
01:21:58.359 --> 01:22:00.199
don't want to make your movie. They want you to
1582
01:22:00.239 --> 01:22:02.239
make their movie, so they're going to be offering you
1583
01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:05.359
things that they have to see if you're right for that.
1584
01:22:06.079 --> 01:22:08.680
So all of these things are just things to get
1585
01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:10.920
you in a door unless you're going to do it yourself.
1586
01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:14.159
But the only way to do that is to have
1587
01:22:14.199 --> 01:22:17.119
two or three things, keep writing and develop a voice
1588
01:22:17.159 --> 01:22:20.399
that people want to hear. It's a hard, hard road.
1589
01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:25.199
And again the other side of that is I think
1590
01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:28.760
I said it on Ashley's thing, which is I'm not
1591
01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:33.039
the most talented writer. I have so many friends that
1592
01:22:33.079 --> 01:22:36.439
are way better than me and way more deserving of
1593
01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:39.840
getting attention for the writing than me. I think that
1594
01:22:39.880 --> 01:22:43.640
I picked the right subject at the right time and
1595
01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:46.319
did it in a way that was different enough that
1596
01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:50.439
it caught people's attention. It wasn't writing about Martin Luther
1597
01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:54.680
King or LBJ or the Game of Thrones. It was
1598
01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:58.359
something that was very doable. It was very genre. It
1599
01:22:58.439 --> 01:23:00.239
was something that you could read it and see what
1600
01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:02.600
it was going to be. It wasn't setting the world
1601
01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:08.239
on fire. It was just sort of a very popular
1602
01:23:08.319 --> 01:23:11.039
genre that people were liking. And so it was more
1603
01:23:11.159 --> 01:23:16.399
right place, right time than any great talent on my part.
1604
01:23:16.560 --> 01:23:18.560
So I think it's being open to all those things
1605
01:23:18.680 --> 01:23:22.560
and trying to get better and and and then getting lucky,
1606
01:23:22.920 --> 01:23:25.279
sad to say, has a lot to do with it too.
1607
01:23:27.039 --> 01:23:30.279
Yeah, that is very true. You know, luck does play
1608
01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:34.239
an integral part in some of this, and and you
1609
01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:36.159
know it actually ties in with with the third question,
1610
01:23:36.199 --> 01:23:38.880
which is, you know, should I crowdifund my project to
1611
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:41.159
show investors that there was no interest in the project.
1612
01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:45.479
And I think this person is saying is if they crowdfund,
1613
01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:47.720
they can then go to investors and b C. We've
1614
01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:50.720
already raised x amount of dollars. There is interesting this project.
1615
01:23:50.840 --> 01:23:53.119
Can we get you know, an actual you know private
1616
01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:54.319
you know private equity?
1617
01:23:54.359 --> 01:23:59.439
Now, yes, I would say when I came out to
1618
01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:02.159
LA with poker knite and a million dollars in the bank,
1619
01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:05.039
it was a lot easier to open the door for
1620
01:24:05.159 --> 01:24:07.479
me than it was coming out to LA with poker
1621
01:24:07.520 --> 01:24:10.720
knite and no money in the bank. When people feel
1622
01:24:10.720 --> 01:24:13.359
like you're halfway there and you've already convinced some people
1623
01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:17.680
that your project has worth, it does make a difference.
1624
01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:20.319
It made a huge difference. So yes, if you could
1625
01:24:20.359 --> 01:24:24.399
crowdfund half your budget, a quarter of your budget, it
1626
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:26.960
certainly is a lot easier for an investor to come
1627
01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:29.319
on when they're not the first one. The first one's
1628
01:24:29.359 --> 01:24:32.439
the hardest, just like the cast. And I feel like
1629
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:35.920
once you say I've already got fifty thousand dollars in
1630
01:24:35.960 --> 01:24:38.359
the bank and I need two hundred thousand, it's a
1631
01:24:38.359 --> 01:24:41.520
lot smaller road to get there, and you're already on
1632
01:24:41.640 --> 01:24:45.000
that road where people feel like we're getting on a
1633
01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:47.399
train that's moving, not we're the one that's having to
1634
01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:50.680
push the car. So yes, I would definitely say that's
1635
01:24:50.720 --> 01:24:51.079
the case.
1636
01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:53.159
Very cool.
1637
01:24:53.199 --> 01:24:55.000
And why would I say that. I have no idea.
1638
01:24:55.319 --> 01:24:57.840
I'm saying it. It seems like it would be the case.
1639
01:24:58.039 --> 01:24:59.880
And it's got to put you. It sets you up
1640
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:02.840
heart from the other people and put your further down
1641
01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:06.239
the road. But I say all this without great knowledge
1642
01:25:06.279 --> 01:25:08.119
or bat and so take it as a caveat. But
1643
01:25:08.399 --> 01:25:11.000
I'm just an idiot who got lucky.
1644
01:25:12.479 --> 01:25:15.319
Uh, you know, it's very good advice, Greg, though. You know,
1645
01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:17.520
I do think you made a really good point. And
1646
01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:19.159
you know, if you do have money in an Esco
1647
01:25:19.239 --> 01:25:22.279
account and you know, say hey we're halfway there or
1648
01:25:22.359 --> 01:25:25.239
we're twenty percent there or seventy percent there, it does
1649
01:25:25.359 --> 01:25:29.399
carry some cash with it. In that way you can
1650
01:25:29.760 --> 01:25:32.239
and people are like, oh, this guy is serious, and
1651
01:25:32.439 --> 01:25:36.000
you know he is bowing towards something, and you know,
1652
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:38.760
you know, just you know, Uly, I know you have
1653
01:25:38.840 --> 01:25:41.079
places to be before I really quickly. I'll tell you
1654
01:25:41.079 --> 01:25:44.359
a little story about we were I was gonna be
1655
01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:46.159
part of a pitch fest, a producer's pitch fest, and
1656
01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:48.520
we were going to invite wealthy investors. We knew to
1657
01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:53.399
come talk to us, and it ended up falling apart.
1658
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:57.079
But you know, what I was doing was creating a
1659
01:25:57.199 --> 01:26:01.640
very well thought out back it and then if they
1660
01:26:01.680 --> 01:26:03.600
wanted to, they could just read the executive summary as
1661
01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:05.560
soon as they opened it. And then everything else was like,
1662
01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:07.960
you know, going to be all about our market aggregators,
1663
01:26:08.359 --> 01:26:11.920
our social media plan, how to you know, getting an
1664
01:26:11.960 --> 01:26:14.479
email list. I mean it was so in depth. And
1665
01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:18.319
you know, one person, she said to me, do you
1666
01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:19.840
think that they're going to sit there and read all this?
1667
01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:21.560
And I said no, but they'll probably pass along to
1668
01:26:21.720 --> 01:26:25.000
like their accountant or their money manager or somebody else
1669
01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:27.560
who probably will read it. And you know, that's that
1670
01:26:27.680 --> 01:26:30.680
was my plan. Unfortunately never happened. We ended up not
1671
01:26:30.720 --> 01:26:33.920
having a pitch fest. So and that was that was
1672
01:26:33.920 --> 01:26:36.439
probably two years ago now. So right now I've just
1673
01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:40.159
been you know, writing scripts in the meantime, but that's
1674
01:26:40.279 --> 01:26:41.760
just started to tie in with everything.
1675
01:26:41.960 --> 01:26:44.800
Oh yeah, it is. That was actually even while you
1676
01:26:44.800 --> 01:26:46.600
were talking to I was thinking of there's there's a
1677
01:26:46.640 --> 01:26:51.000
deal out here in LA that they'll do occasionally with
1678
01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:53.760
post houses now, and I think part of it is
1679
01:26:53.800 --> 01:26:57.560
because the post industry sort of upended a little bit
1680
01:26:57.600 --> 01:27:01.640
in the last few years too, where post House will
1681
01:27:01.680 --> 01:27:04.039
say to you'll have a script, and they're getting into
1682
01:27:04.039 --> 01:27:08.159
the producing business, so they'll say, well, we'll give you
1683
01:27:08.319 --> 01:27:10.640
post on this film. Let's say we're going to give
1684
01:27:10.640 --> 01:27:16.119
you three three hundred thousand dollars of services, but we'll
1685
01:27:16.119 --> 01:27:20.560
only charge you fifty grand. So you can go to
1686
01:27:20.600 --> 01:27:23.840
investors now and say you've got three hundred thousand dollars
1687
01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:28.319
of investment in your movie against your million dollars by
1688
01:27:28.479 --> 01:27:30.279
having us on board, and then you'll bring all the
1689
01:27:30.319 --> 01:27:33.000
posts here and pay us with what you make out
1690
01:27:33.039 --> 01:27:37.239
of the film, and we'll be executive producers. So there
1691
01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:39.960
are people that are putting deals together that way now too.
1692
01:27:40.680 --> 01:27:43.600
But it it puts you on the road. Does that
1693
01:27:43.680 --> 01:27:45.439
make sense? So I think it would be the same
1694
01:27:45.439 --> 01:27:47.319
with crowdsourcing. Oh yeah, that.
1695
01:27:47.479 --> 01:27:49.319
Makes a lot of sense. So is it just like
1696
01:27:49.399 --> 01:27:50.600
certain production houses that.
1697
01:27:50.560 --> 01:27:53.359
Are doing that now or post houses. I've seen it
1698
01:27:53.399 --> 01:27:55.960
with post houses, okay, with a lot of them. And
1699
01:27:56.039 --> 01:27:58.199
part of it is, you know, that also gives them
1700
01:27:58.239 --> 01:28:02.279
work to keep their people going and projects coming in
1701
01:28:04.319 --> 01:28:06.359
and they're reaching out to you know, more people on
1702
01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:10.680
the lower end of the spectrum where you know, they
1703
01:28:10.760 --> 01:28:13.319
might be telling you it's a three hundred thousand dollars investment,
1704
01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:16.319
but probably they're giving you one hundred thousand dollars investment
1705
01:28:17.319 --> 01:28:21.039
that's overpriced to three hundred. So if you get money in,
1706
01:28:21.119 --> 01:28:24.760
they get paid out first and they get a bigger
1707
01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:28.640
price than what it was. So probably every tenth film
1708
01:28:28.680 --> 01:28:31.520
that one of them finally makes money pays for the
1709
01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:34.439
other nine. But it does give you a way to
1710
01:28:34.479 --> 01:28:38.199
get started. And so I've heard that going on out here.
1711
01:28:38.239 --> 01:28:40.479
Not as a scam. I don't think it's a scam,
1712
01:28:40.479 --> 01:28:42.600
but I do think it's that sort of bonus of
1713
01:28:42.640 --> 01:28:46.079
being first in and then looking out for themselves. Yeah.
1714
01:28:46.239 --> 01:28:47.479
Actually, I think that's a great idea.
1715
01:28:48.159 --> 01:28:50.800
Yeah, it's a smart way to go. And I think
1716
01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:53.640
equipment houses will do that too. You know, they'll work
1717
01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:54.319
your deal line.
1718
01:28:54.359 --> 01:28:58.640
Well, it's two hundred thousand dollars of equipment, we'll give
1719
01:28:58.680 --> 01:29:00.600
you that up, we'll give it to you, but you're
1720
01:29:00.640 --> 01:29:04.479
gonna pay us eighty thousand dollars against that, and then
1721
01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:06.600
when your deferments come in, you'll.
1722
01:29:06.439 --> 01:29:10.359
Pay us the rest. So you kind of piece it
1723
01:29:10.399 --> 01:29:11.560
together piece by piece.
1724
01:29:12.640 --> 01:29:14.800
Yeah, and then that actually you know that would help
1725
01:29:14.840 --> 01:29:16.640
a lot if two of equipment host to that. So
1726
01:29:17.119 --> 01:29:19.119
I mean, and you know, just thinking out loud, it'd
1727
01:29:19.119 --> 01:29:22.039
be great if you actually, you know, could crowdfund something
1728
01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:26.720
and get you know, both a post house and a
1729
01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:30.000
a storage house to actually do that for you. Actually,
1730
01:29:30.159 --> 01:29:32.279
if they could actually join in together and you could
1731
01:29:32.319 --> 01:29:37.479
get you know, you know, six figures of services for
1732
01:29:37.680 --> 01:29:40.880
you know, whatever amount of money, that's excellent, and then
1733
01:29:41.199 --> 01:29:42.319
you start have to come up with a way to
1734
01:29:42.359 --> 01:29:46.279
pay your cast and your crew. But but the rest
1735
01:29:46.279 --> 01:29:49.439
of it, it's a great way to get started. Oh yeah, absolutely,
1736
01:29:49.880 --> 01:29:52.000
But yeah, that's actually a good strategy because I mean
1737
01:29:52.039 --> 01:29:53.800
if you did have that and then you could actually
1738
01:29:53.840 --> 01:29:55.600
you know, eive the crowdfund and then go through that.
1739
01:29:57.119 --> 01:29:59.640
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
1740
01:30:03.239 --> 01:30:04.800
and now back to the show.
1741
01:30:06.159 --> 01:30:09.319
To get a like a producer to actually come on
1742
01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:11.840
board or you know, a well known direction photography and
1743
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:13.760
then you know, try to like you said it, you know,
1744
01:30:13.760 --> 01:30:15.880
the first cast member to actually add importance to the
1745
01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:17.119
project and sort of go from there.
1746
01:30:18.520 --> 01:30:21.560
Yeah. I think it's a great, great way. In fact, truthfully,
1747
01:30:22.359 --> 01:30:25.720
just like the script, any way that you can get
1748
01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:29.720
money for your project is a great way. It's an
1749
01:30:29.760 --> 01:30:31.840
even better way if you can actually return money to
1750
01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:37.199
your investors. That's the best way. But it's just it's
1751
01:30:37.199 --> 01:30:40.359
a it's an interesting climate and an interesting time, and
1752
01:30:42.239 --> 01:30:44.800
I think the more people are innovative about how they
1753
01:30:44.800 --> 01:30:46.880
approach it, the more chances you have.
1754
01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:51.199
Yeah, very true, And you know, I think we'll end
1755
01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:53.079
up seeing more of those chances coming up now with
1756
01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:55.479
everything changing. As we were just like as we were saying,
1757
01:30:56.079 --> 01:30:57.000
totally well.
1758
01:30:57.359 --> 01:31:01.520
And I mean again this if an idiot like me
1759
01:31:01.640 --> 01:31:03.680
can do it. I mean, it took us ten years
1760
01:31:03.720 --> 01:31:06.000
to get it to this point, and you want to say, well,
1761
01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:07.760
after ten years, you hope it's really good. And I
1762
01:31:07.760 --> 01:31:10.279
don't know if we got anything that was really good,
1763
01:31:10.439 --> 01:31:14.960
but it's good. It's just it's a long road and
1764
01:31:15.039 --> 01:31:17.520
you want to go down it with your eyes open
1765
01:31:17.720 --> 01:31:20.359
and enjoy the experience. And some people are going to
1766
01:31:20.399 --> 01:31:23.159
get really lucky and in the first year, for six
1767
01:31:23.199 --> 01:31:25.079
months they might hit it and all of a sudden
1768
01:31:25.079 --> 01:31:27.399
they're making a movie. Other people it might be longer
1769
01:31:27.439 --> 01:31:30.000
than ten years. But it's just know what you're getting into,
1770
01:31:30.359 --> 01:31:32.720
enjoy that process, and don't let anybody stop you and
1771
01:31:32.760 --> 01:31:34.439
don't take no, because if you want to make it,
1772
01:31:35.199 --> 01:31:38.159
you can do it. And I think I'm I'm proof
1773
01:31:38.199 --> 01:31:40.359
you don't have to be a genius or super talented.
1774
01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:44.479
You just have to really enjoy the ride and do
1775
01:31:44.560 --> 01:31:45.000
your best.
1776
01:31:45.439 --> 01:31:49.039
So and that is a great message, and you know,
1777
01:31:49.720 --> 01:31:53.359
I wholy agree with you, Greg. So, Greg, you know,
1778
01:31:53.399 --> 01:31:54.920
where can people find you out online?
1779
01:31:57.119 --> 01:32:03.800
I'm on Twitter, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Tumblr. I
1780
01:32:03.840 --> 01:32:04.439
think that's it.
1781
01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:10.039
You also have an IMDb too, which, oh yeah, IMDb,
1782
01:32:11.319 --> 01:32:12.159
I got my email.
1783
01:32:12.159 --> 01:32:13.640
If they don't want to bug me, I guess any
1784
01:32:13.680 --> 01:32:14.920
of that's fine.
1785
01:32:15.279 --> 01:32:16.439
And where can they find Pocer.
1786
01:32:16.560 --> 01:32:20.199
It's at Poker Night, is on vo D, It's on Amazon,
1787
01:32:20.359 --> 01:32:24.800
it's on iTunes, and in February it'll be on Blu
1788
01:32:24.920 --> 01:32:25.840
ray D.
1789
01:32:26.479 --> 01:32:28.039
Excellent. And I'm going to make sure to link all
1790
01:32:28.039 --> 01:32:30.479
those in the show notes. So if for those listening
1791
01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:33.720
who want to actually purchase it, rent it, you can
1792
01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:36.359
go to write to those links. I recommend you check
1793
01:32:36.359 --> 01:32:40.600
it out. You know, I've seen the trailer and you know,
1794
01:32:40.640 --> 01:32:43.159
from what I've talked, from what I've heard from Greg
1795
01:32:43.159 --> 01:32:47.079
and talked to rig about, you know, it sounds phenomenal
1796
01:32:47.239 --> 01:32:48.920
and I want to check it out. I'm probably going
1797
01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:51.119
to check it out tonight. I actually literally this week
1798
01:32:51.159 --> 01:32:53.840
has been like I've had no time to watch anything,
1799
01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.520
so that's why I haven't watched it. So I but
1800
01:32:57.600 --> 01:32:59.039
I promise Greg will watch it, so.
1801
01:32:59.279 --> 01:33:02.119
I don't even work. When you get a chance, take
1802
01:33:02.159 --> 01:33:03.520
a peek and then let me know what you think.
1803
01:33:03.760 --> 01:33:04.359
All right, we'll do.
1804
01:33:04.920 --> 01:33:05.039
So.
1805
01:33:05.319 --> 01:33:06.880
There's a lot of people, Greg, who listen to the
1806
01:33:06.920 --> 01:33:10.439
show who don't, like, you know, either subscribe or what
1807
01:33:10.520 --> 01:33:13.920
have you. And I'm always you know, pleading with people.
1808
01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:17.039
Please it helps me parlay to get you know, guests
1809
01:33:17.159 --> 01:33:19.479
or you know too because they want to come on
1810
01:33:19.520 --> 01:33:20.680
a good show. They don't want to come on a show.
1811
01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:22.319
It's like, oh, they have no subscribers, they have no
1812
01:33:22.520 --> 01:33:25.560
very ratings, you know, what is this? But so it's
1813
01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:27.119
kind of like a movie you have to attach, you know,
1814
01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:29.960
somebody to to add importance to it, you know. So,
1815
01:33:30.880 --> 01:33:33.079
but Greg, thank you so much for coming on. You know,
1816
01:33:33.119 --> 01:33:36.239
I really appreciate it. And you know, you know, I
1817
01:33:36.279 --> 01:33:37.840
wish you the best poken night, and also I wish
1818
01:33:37.880 --> 01:33:39.920
you best with you know, whatever projects you're working on now,
1819
01:33:40.520 --> 01:33:43.640
and hopefully we'll see something something another movie from you soon.
1820
01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:47.159
They can't can't say how much I appreciate it. Thanks
1821
01:33:47.159 --> 01:33:50.920
so much for asking me on, and I'm really impressed
1822
01:33:51.000 --> 01:33:55.000
and excited for what you're doing. And if anyone feels
1823
01:33:55.039 --> 01:33:57.199
like they're wondering what kind of show it is, look
1824
01:33:57.279 --> 01:33:59.600
down the list of names that Dave has on a
1825
01:33:59.680 --> 01:34:02.479
show and it's quality, quality people. I don't know what
1826
01:34:02.520 --> 01:34:06.159
I'm doing there with this list, but it's a great group.
1827
01:34:06.479 --> 01:34:10.159
He's doing God's work for films. So thanks for having
1828
01:34:10.199 --> 01:34:10.359
me on.
1829
01:34:10.439 --> 01:34:12.319
Man, Oh, thank you so much for the commerts. I
1830
01:34:12.359 --> 01:34:13.319
really appreciate that. Greg.
1831
01:34:14.359 --> 01:34:16.960
Thanks brother, stay in touch bug me. If you need
1832
01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:17.840
anything else, let me know.
1833
01:34:18.079 --> 01:34:19.319
All right, Thank you very much and I have a
1834
01:34:19.359 --> 01:34:19.960
great Saturday.
1835
01:34:20.119 --> 01:34:20.840
All right, you too, Dave.
1836
01:34:20.920 --> 01:34:22.399
Thanks everybody, Bye bye.
1837
01:34:23.000 --> 01:34:24.840
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
1838
01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:26.399
a great job on this episode. If you want to
1839
01:34:26.399 --> 01:34:28.319
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
1840
01:34:28.359 --> 01:34:31.840
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
1841
01:34:32.119 --> 01:34:34.680
Forward slash for eighty one. Thank you so much for
1842
01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:37.840
listening to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what.
1843
01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:38.920
I'll talk to you soon.
1844
01:34:39.319 --> 01:34:43.239
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. At Bulletproof
1845
01:34:43.319 --> 01:34:44.680
Screenwriting dot tv,