BPS 460: Making Independent Films Without Hollywood or a Huge Budget with David Ash

WEBVTT
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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
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amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four sixty.
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Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
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breath and try again.
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Kat You Whitten broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in
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Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft.
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It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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screenplay bulletproof.
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And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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Now.
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Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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Now.
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Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullets.
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On today's episode, I chat with a filmmaker who actually
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lives two lives, which I think all of us do,
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because you know, in the day, we work a day
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job and then we make films on the weekends, right
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night or wherever we can until we can make movies
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full time. You know, it's kind of like a side
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gig or a side hustle or a weekend warrior type thing.
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So usually if you're like me, you to hide that
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side and you kind of make you know, I have
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two LinkedIn's, I have two different twitters, et cetera, because
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you don't want them to bleed into each other because
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usually it doesn't end well. My next guest, he actually
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constantly just goes out and says, yeah, I make films
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for the Weekends. Yeah, I was in the paper and
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I also work at this company. So he's kind of
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like the Iron Man, you know, he's just at the end, he's, oh,
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by the way, I'm Iron Man. I do all this stuff,
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and if you don't like it, whatever, But he's embraced
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it and it's worked very well for him. We're gonna
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talk about his new movie called Twin Cities about living
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a double life, and we're talking about filmmaking and winning
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writing contests and being flown out to LA and he
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saw the frustration not being able to make his own
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movies because these guys are gonna make it. We're gonna
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talk about all that stuff. Really cool interview, So without
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further ado with guests. David ash Yeah.
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I fell long story Shri. I did well enough on
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his career in contests that they brought him out to
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LA to kind of do the LA thing and me
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with some producers and stuff like that, and you know,
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I really realized from that experience that basically, there's no
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way hell there every gonna make my movie. And that
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became pretty apparent. Not that they didn't like it, just
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wasn't the kind of stuff that they were interested in.
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So from there, you know, pretty much on the flight
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from from LA I decided I want to just learn
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how to make films so that it actually got made
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rather than just stacking up on my shelf here. So
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so we have an I f P on with that
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or not. It's an independent feature project, which is kind
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of a local thing here in the Twin Cities for
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filmmaking photography. And I started taking a lot of classes there,
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you know, everything you had taken filmmaking, screenwriting, uh, directing,
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you know, editing, lighting, audio, anything they would provide, I
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would I would take it, and uh just kind of
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learned it that way. And then you know, got into
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one of the classes, I think it was in short
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of film production and in the class we actually had
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to make a short film. So I made a short
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film in the class, just using other students in the class.
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We shot at about two and a half hours. It
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cost about fifteen bucks to make it, and it actually
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got into some festivals and you know, played in a
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few of these fast not just here, but you know internationally,
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and that was really kind of the spark for the
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whole thing. So after that, the actually the guy that
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was teaching that class asked her if I wanted to
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keep making films, I'm like, yeah, of course I do.
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So he was actually also the facilities director of the IFP,
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so we could get our equipment for free. So from
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there we just started making short films. I think we
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made five or six about a year. This is now
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probably eleven twelve years ago. Those did pretty well, gotten
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some fast and such, and then you know, got a
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little tired of just making short films, and then I
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made my first feature about ten years ago. It was
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a documentary called Love of Documentary, and we made the
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whole thing for eat or Bucks. Well, yeah, I think
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I let's say a thousand art film, you ask me,
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but uh, you know, definitely uh not high budget, but
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uh that actually gotten some pasts as well. And you
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know from there I've made two more, much more bigger
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budget films since then. But that was the way that
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the Shart oft the whole thing.
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So you mentioned you have a degree in business administration,
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as do I. Uh So it's kind of it's kind
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of ironic because you and I see that's one of
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the reasons I wanted to talk to you, because you
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and I have a very similar path. Because I have
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a degree in business administration. I thought about going for
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an NBA, and I said, what the hell am I thinking?
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And thanks, and I decided, uh, you know, I used
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to work at a college and they were going to
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offer me with free masters, and I decided not to
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go that route. And it wasn't the NBA. There's a
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couple of different options, and I thought, I, I don't feel
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like going for two more years of school for a
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degree that I just don't know if I'm going to
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fully use. So you know, but it was very similar though,
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because during college I realized that I didn't want to
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really do go into business or anything like that. So
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it's you know, it's just kind of ironic because you know,
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if you got that business degree, you know, and you know,
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you mentioned that you started taking some screenwriting courses. We
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know we're with these like online seminars.
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Now there's there's a place to call it the it's
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actually a literary loft. It's a place that offers just
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writing classes of all kind And one was a screen
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rining class. It was a night, you know, once a
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week for probably two months. It was anything huge and
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that was really the only screen rining class I had,
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But it was It really helped to kind of understand
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the mechanics of the film, you know, writing works and such.
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So that was that was how I got started screenwrinning
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as far as the educational part of it.
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So so when you did take that course, you know what,
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like what were some of the things that really you know,
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stood out for for for you for taking that course.
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You know, I think the first thing was, you know,
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screen scrip, I shouldn't be four armed pages. I think
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that was a good learning, you know, because I was
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just writing, and Ryan Raye and the teachers like, you know,
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you gotta pare this thing down quite a bit. We
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can't have you know, fifty pages of this dialogue in
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a row. It was just kind of learning film language
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and you know, three structure, all that kind of good stuff.
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So I was really a baby in the woods before
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I took that class. And then I've kind of learned
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more as i've done it since then, but it was
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really just the basics and then you know, earning your
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h you know, you're ending that kind of thing. I
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was kind of a big thing with that instructor. But
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that was really just the start of I think I've
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I've learned a lot since then, just doing the screenwrite
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in the filmmaking, But that was the first time I
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actually understood you couldn't just write four or five hundred
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pages and call that a film, right.
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Yeah, and definitely, and just to go along with that,
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it's also about you know, writing a scene, what makes
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a scene, putting all those together, actually making sure the
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screenplay actually, you know, works and it's not just basically
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a election of you know, someone's day as they sort
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of just go through the minutia, you know. Yeah, is
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I mean because you knew writing going into this, So yeah,
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I'm sure you knew about tension and building characters already.
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Right yeah, but yeah, I mean not not in the
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form of filmmaking, though I kind of you know, I
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knew it for more the literary side of things. And
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you know, the biggest thing just was for me. It
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was learning that you know, you can do in film
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with you know, three or four lines and the right
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shots we you know, would normally do in three or
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four pages in a book for example, and just pairing
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everything down to and something I'm still learning I'll pay
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everything down to just exactly what you need nothing more.
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So that takes a long time. To learning frore not
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I used to that, and you want to just kind
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of expound on everything and nausea on which I learned
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very quickly, was not the way to go about it.
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Yeah, you're very true. Yeah, you know, And what I
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was just getting at was, you're just about coming to
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building characters, you know, like character descriptions and stuff like that. Obviously,
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you know, you can't put in like Fitzgerald pros where
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you know, he describes the curtains or whatever, you know,
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for a couple of pages. But you know, it's about
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economy of words. So so you know, after it was
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all over, did you actually have a you know, a
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ninety year one hundred page screenplay?
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Yeah, I think I got it down to maybe one
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twenty one thirty, you know, and that was the script
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I used to kind of get into the contests and
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and such. And you know, some of those contests, if
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you do well enough, they give you like free feedback.
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So that was a good learning as well. And you know,
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for me, the biggest thing that helped me with screen
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I was just having to actually make the damn things myself, right,
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because then he realized, if you're making these kind of
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amateur mistakes. Once you get on a set, you know
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it's irresponsibility to make it enough film and you learn
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very quickly you know, when you're directing, you what you're writing,
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that the script has to be something that's directable.
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So we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
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and now back to the show.
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That just kind of diving in and starting to make
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films after I had, you know, just only written a
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few scripts was definitely the best education I had, you know,
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in my whole career was just going and doing it
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and getting progressively better at understanding what a script should
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should do and how it should look and in terms
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of you know, building scenes and such, and you can't
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replace just having to do it yourself, I think any
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kind of film film school or class. So that's my
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you know, my biggest advice to filmmakers and folks wanting
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a filmmakers always, you know, don't don't necessarily go to
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film school, just you know, start making a film, even
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if it's going to suck, and it will suck, you know,
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the first two will definitely suck. But you have to
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just kind of learn my doing otherwise you know, you're
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not going to quite controlize what you need to internalize
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in terms of how it's actually done.
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Yeah, it's kind of like what Robert Riguez says, you know, basically,
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you have like a bunch of bad movies in you
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in you, and you have to get down out as
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soon as possible.
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Absolutely true. Yeah, I still have probably haven't gotten out yet.
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That's yeah. Uh, we're getting there, you know, depending on
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how you talk to you, I think we've we've gotten
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most of them out.
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Yeah. I found the key is is to just when
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you're first starting out especially, is to aim low. And
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what I mean by that is don't say like, hey, listen,
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I'm gonna go out this weekend, I'm gonna I'm gonna
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shoot a short film for ten grand and we're gonna
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have blood and squibs and you know, blanks and everything else,
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and we need to I mean, I think that's where
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just a lot of filmmakers tend to shoot themselves in
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the foot.
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Yeah, that's absolutely true. And I've said that before in
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similar kind of interviews and hells about. You know, if
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you're having to make what you write, you realize very
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quickly that you have to write to what you can make. Right,
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you have to write something you can actually shoot, and I,
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you know, I learned that pretty early on. I made
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a short film. I want to get into it, but
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it was just a effing nightmare because I fell in
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love with the script, and then trying to make it
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became just a vortex of pain and agony if everyone
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involved for a very long time. And I was like,
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you know, I'm never a gun going to write a
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script that I can actually make very you know, reasonly,
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only at the budget that I've got. Otherwise it's just
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pointless and just leads to a lot of frustration and
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people hating you.
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Yeah, that's very true. But I think we all have
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those stories, you know, Dave. I think we all have
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those stories where we tried to do something a little
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too much, too quickly, and it ended up, you know,
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we kind of brought some people down with us. I
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made a short film one time that literally everything that
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could go wrong went wrong, and finally we were like,
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this was after the whole day everything was going wrong, right,
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and we had to go outside to shoot this one
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scene and I thought, may hey, listen, you know this
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can't go wrong, right, This cannot go wrong, Dave, I shit,
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you not. It starts pouring rain like you didn't believe.
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And I said to myself, I go, this, this can't
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be happening, Like I have to be in bed dreaming
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that this is all just happening and I'm going to
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wake up. But no, it's it was real life. Unfortunately,
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I just I ended up shortly then after that, the
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director's cinematography actually just like vanished and I couldn't find them,
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and I was like, what the hell? And so I
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I and just to you know, just to surmise that
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whole story, I actually met him or reconnected with him,
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probably a few years ago. When I actually asked him,
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I said, did I do something? Was it that day
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that did it? And he goes, well, that day was bad.
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He goes, but the whole but but He's like, the
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whole reason was and there was a whole other reason
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that was going on in his personal life that thankfully
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had nothing to do with me. And I was like, oh,
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thank god, I didn't want to be responsible for this
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guy quitting film.
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Yeah, well, let's cut the intargent. Otherwise you'd your whole
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life thought of pages. That's as good.
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No, but you mentioned your short film that anything went wrong,
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and you know, again, I think we all have those.
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And so as you you know started to go through
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you know, deciding to make you know, more films, you know,
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you worked a day job at the same time.
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Yeah, I always have. That's that's kind of I think
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the UNI think of where what I do is that, Yeah,
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I didn't just you know, go into writing after I
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got the m Yeah, I suhally into business and I've
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this is probably twenty years ago, you know that graduate
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from grad school and very corporate finance ever since. So, yeah,
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I'm currently a exec at e colab here in Saint Paul,
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and you know that's a pretty involving gig. You know,
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probably fifty sixty hours a week on that side of things.
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I've got four kids ages thirteen through seventeen. That is
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a little consuming pretty much all the time. And then yeah,
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and then doing the film stuff on top of that.
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So it's really been you know, uh, just trying to
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find a way to do it and just doing it.
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You know, It's there's no real easy explanation for you know,
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making six short films and three features in the last
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thirteen years, other than just willing yourself to do it,
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because it's you got a lot of it, or you
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won't you won't do it. I guess it's easy to
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say and say, but it's it's not for but I.
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But I think I have a pretty good example of,
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you know, if you want to make a film, get
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into filmmaking. You know, I mentioned some of the budgets
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that I worked on. We're pretty much peanuts, and you
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really don't have an excuse for at least not trying it,
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given the way the technology is now and how you
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can make a film for cheap, and you just kind
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of do it when you have time. And you know,
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I think if nothing else of my story is something
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that hopefully can inspire folks to just you know, not
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say I can't do this because I've got a day job,
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and I've got a family, and I've got everything else
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in my life, because you know, if I wait for
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that stuff to to not be around, I would never
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make a film. So I'm glad I've done it. It's
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kind of exhausting sometimes, but it's also gives you energy
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because it makes you, you know, want to get up
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and keep keep pushing at it. So now I'll keep
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doing it. You know. It's it's something I love to do.
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So I wanted to ask what when? So does it
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ever come back? Does it ever? What I mean by
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that is, do people ever like search for you online
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and they'll say, hey, Dave, is this you? Or something
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like that where you're well, Because at work, I imagine
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that happens, because I mean imagine people are because you know,
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you're the Treasury director and I imagine you probably you know,
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people look you up on LinkedIn or what have you,
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and I'm sure they're probably like, hey, Dave, is this
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you in the local paper or whatever.
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Yeah, it happens a lot. I mean it, It really
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started happening last fall. We did our most recently feature
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of twin Cities actually had his local premiere here in October,
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and as part of that, there was a big feature
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stories in both the Minneapolis papers as well as the
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Saint Paul Paper in consecutive Sundays, and that kind of
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reaches pretty much ey y in the state that reads.
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You know, so there was a lot of that, you know,
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at work on Monday, like, Wow, I didn't know you
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did this because I don't talk about it at work,
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and I don't really It's not something that a lot
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of folks are he doesn't doesn't come up in a
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lot of meetings about finance and accounting, let's put that way.
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But yeah, folks definitely at that point were very supportive
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and very interested, but also very shocked that I was
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doing this on the side addition to you know, being
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a treasure director for re Collabs. So it's u Most
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people think it's great. Some people are just like what
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the fuck are you do? We do you know? But
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over almost positive.
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Yeah, I mean I was expecting that a lot of
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people would be like, oh, hey, David, why are you
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doing this and this, or maybe even saying because I
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mean that that's happened to it. A lot of different
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people on this podcast where they've worked a day job
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and you know, they worked at they were like, you know, what,
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what the hell? But did anyone ever come up to
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you and like pitch like, hey, you know I have
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a friend or daughter or cousin that wants to be
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in movies.
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Yeah, I mean I get them more like when I
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do some panels now and then, I always have one
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personal cub, she wishly walk up to me. I had
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one not too long ago, and it was her husband
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always wanted to write a screenplay and we meet with
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them and you know, basically be his mentor. I I'll
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talk to him. I'm not going to you know, uh,
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going to readjust my life for his film career. But
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that's that's something that's pretty common, uh there, and then
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that that work. It's more like, hey, I want to
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do a person that wrote a book, and that's pretty
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cool too. And you know, there's not many filmmakers in
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corporate finance. I would just say as a rule, but
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everyone knows somebody that does something sort of similar and
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they want to talked about, which I think is great,
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you know, but yeah, I've had that experience quite a bit.
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Actually, So have you ever actually met with somebody? So
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if somebody has ever requested it, like hey, Dave, you
387
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just meet my husband wife or whatever, have you ever
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ever actually sat down and met somebody?
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Probably not, Probably always figure out a way out of it.
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I'm just kidding. Now that's going to mind. I. I
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I'll have a drink with somebody like after a film
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panel and that kind of thing, but nothing like formal
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like hey, please show me how to do what you've
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been doing. But I'm always I usually just gonna send
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on some links to some stuff and you know, give
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in contact with the IFP here, which is a great place,
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like I got started to get started and throw them
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that way because they've got all the classes there to
399
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get involved and all that. But yeah, I don't generally
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do a lot of one one mentoring. I guess i'd say.
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We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
402
00:19:57.799 --> 00:19:59.039
and now back to the show.
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Yeah, because I've noticed that comes up a lot too,
404
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is the whole like, hey, would you mind meeting somebody?
405
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I agreed to it one time, and I think the
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the person I met was had a different idea of
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what screen running was or is. Basically, I just started
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talking about screenwrinning theory. I said, you know, what are
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your questions, what do you have? What do you want
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to know? And I did this for a friend. You know,
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this is kind of like a professional acquaintance slash kindest
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sort of a friend, if you know what I mean.
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And I and I met with her and went with
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her daughter and her daughter I think was just kind
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of a little taken aback and didn't really have any questions.
416
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I think she was kind of expecting me to like, hey,
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here's the key to all of this, and this is
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what unlocks.
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All the doors, right, Yeah, that's the folks. Dently that
420
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I've talked to think as well, is that you can
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just kind of like to the least time I've talked
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to folks, but then what I do. It's generally like,
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you know, well and you know seven email with how
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you did this right, and it's like, well, it kind
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of takes twelve fourteen years of work to kind of
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get even to where I'm at, which is not exactly
427
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you know, big budgets, big budget land. But yeah, it's
428
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folks think it's just something you just kind of write
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down on a piece of paper and you to somebody,
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you know.
431
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Yes. And and I once was out of writing a
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seminar a slash pitch event and this mutual friend of mine,
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you know, can walk up to me and said to me,
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you know, hey, Dave, I want you to meet somebody.
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And this guy he was wanted to get into screenwriting,
436
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and every question was about basically money, was like do
437
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they still give people million dollar contracts?
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This? And that.
439
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I'm like, what do you care? You've been written anything?
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Like you think give them crime billion dollars? What does
441
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it matter to you?
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Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it said, Yeah, the good thing to
443
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know about filmmaking is like, yeah, I think about half
444
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percent actually make a pretty good living at it. Another
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nine nine point five or just you know, doing it
446
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because I love it, honestly, And most folks don't realize that,
447
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you know, they watch the Oscars like a few days ago,
448
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and I think that you're making films, you must be
449
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real rolling and rolling in it. That's pretty much the opposite.
450
00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.319
You just have to do it and love it and
451
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hopefully something comes to at some point. But otherwise, you know,
452
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I I haven't made a ton of money and I'm
453
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happy with what I've done, so you know that's usually
454
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the end result of this kind of stuff.
455
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Yeah, right, uh and so so just continue on with
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your with your journey, you know, after you you know,
457
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we were before we get to Twin Cities. You know,
458
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I just want to ask, you know about any of
459
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the other short films, you know, before we talk about
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Twin Cities. Is there anything else that that's sort of
461
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really like you wanted to to to sort of like
462
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.559
talk about a discuss to focus on just because you know,
463
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.319
usually the short films, as you know, Dave, are kind
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of like the setup for a feature film.
465
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Yeah, it's a great way to get started. I would
466
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definitely recommend doing shorts. I've gone some filmmakers that just
467
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go directly in features, and I don't think that's the
468
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way to go. I mean a lot of these shorts
469
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were five to ten minutes, you know, some of them
470
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were like fifty bucks. But you know, they all played
471
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a small to medium sized festivals, which is great. But
472
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I would definitely go with that route. I think I
473
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would have not probably done any differently than I did
474
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it if I had to do it over again, which
475
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was make five, five or six shorts and then kind
476
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of get your your voice on what you want to
477
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do with film dialed in before you tackle the features.
478
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So you know, I would say, you know, do that
479
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.079
and then put it online. You know, you're you're not
480
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:36.000
going to find a more ruthless audience and putting something
481
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.960
on YouTube. So that's a good indoctrination into you know,
482
00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:44.759
film criticism for you because the comments there will if
483
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.759
you can if your stomach that, then you can probably
484
00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:49.200
stomach making a feature film because that's a that's a
485
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.680
great proving ground I think is getting it on YouTube
486
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:54.640
and getting some clicks. We did have one that went
487
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.319
pretty viral a couple hundred thousand, I think, pretty quickly.
488
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.200
And it was very politically oriented. And that's one thing
489
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:08.279
I learned about, you know, that kind of you know,
490
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:12.240
getting short films out there is but it's politically oriented
491
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:14.680
that it seems that folks were really ready to jump
492
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:16.559
in on one side of the other on it. And
493
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:20.400
that was definitely the most the biggest short film we
494
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.599
had was was what they had a pretty pretty hard
495
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:24.200
liberal bent to it, and you could get all of
496
00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:28.000
the all the trump Trumpsters and and such out the
497
00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.079
woodwork to really you know, share with their friends because
498
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.960
they hated so much, or vice versa. And uh, you know,
499
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:35.880
I guess what I'm trying to say is if you
500
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.640
want clicks, make it politically orient on one side of
501
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.640
the other. And that's kind of the the MILLIU right
502
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.200
now and online is political stuff that folks just want
503
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.319
to either attack it vaciferously and set their friends they hated,
504
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:50.599
or send to their princes they love it. But that was
505
00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:53.480
my experience with short film making was that we made
506
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.359
some films I thought were much better, but they didn't
507
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:56.680
have anywhere attractions that.
508
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.440
And that was the Obamacare website explana right.
509
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:02.599
No, it was actually not that one. That one. That
510
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.279
one was out there too, but it was about it
511
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.079
was about a father talking to a son, and the
512
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:13.640
father was very hardcore right wing and the son was
513
00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:16.799
very liberal and kind of setting him straight as they
514
00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:20.640
went along the path there. And we did it for
515
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.400
actually a political action group called Live Liberal, and they
516
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.200
asked us to make the short films myself and this
517
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.279
other guy that I mentioned that got into filmmaking, and
518
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:31.680
we did it just for them and then just kind
519
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:36.319
of took off from there. But yeah, the Obama thing
520
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:40.240
was also pretty poll political, but this one was very
521
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.319
at a very defined point of view, which really kind
522
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:45.000
of set some folks off, which was which is fine
523
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:45.160
with me.
524
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.680
I mean, well you're you're at least evoking some kind
525
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.240
of emotion, right, and then that that's what we're after, right.
526
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.039
Yeah exactly, Yeah, for sure.
527
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:58.400
So you know, with with the Obamacare website explanation, I
528
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.759
haven't actually seen that, and I actually saw that, and
529
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:02.920
I was like, did he make it up on the
530
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.680
Obamacare website, because it's possible, But then you know, I
531
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.759
imagine it was probably you know, like a parody video.
532
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.559
Yeah, that was basically that was going back a few years.
533
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:17.039
That was when Obama the website, if you recalled, didn't
534
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:20.559
exactly set the role on fire, and they had a
535
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.599
ton of problems with it. So he had this really
536
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.799
I've got to Obima fan. It was very earnest, kind
537
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.200
of rose garden explanation for all the things that had
538
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.079
gone wrong with it and why that was okay and
539
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:36.599
it was still going to be great. And what I
540
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.400
did was I subtitled that with what he was actually
541
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:43.359
trying to say, which was of course heavily satirized and
542
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.519
that kind of thing. So it was, you know, I
543
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:48.720
consider myself a liberal, but that was pretty much making
544
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.079
fun of Obama, which went the other way. Is the
545
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:53.400
other short film, so I'll say it to me, want
546
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.799
to check it out, But I did not know as
547
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.200
much an he clicks as the the one that pissed
548
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:59.279
off the Republicans.
549
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.799
So so once you actually started, you know, you know,
550
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:06.599
making these short films, you know, making them for you know,
551
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.680
fifty eighty one hundred bucks, you mentioned you made another
552
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:12.680
film for a thousand, the future film for a thousand,
553
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.000
you know, you know, so what was the you know,
554
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.039
the impetus there? You know, did you start with the
555
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:18.880
budget or did you sort of write it and say,
556
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:20.200
you know, hey, look it's only going to cost one
557
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.319
thousand to make this now.
558
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.599
Actually that one actually started as a short film, and
559
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.799
it was the whole setup was was cheap to begin with.
560
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:35.119
It was basically a documentary about a guy who you know,
561
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:37.839
worked in an office and he thought that God had
562
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.400
come to him and impored him to spread love and
563
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:43.279
joy throughout the world. So it was this kind of
564
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.480
found footage type of doc about this guy and his
565
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.440
you know, very jaded coworkers, and you know, kind of
566
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:53.359
played off the tension between that. See, he had kind
567
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:55.160
of scenes of this person talking, which actually was played
568
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.839
with myself, and then scenes of things just going horribly
569
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:00.799
wrong in the office as he tried to kind of
570
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:04.680
impart this spiritual journey he was on. And we shot
571
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:09.160
it actually had IFP using the equipment from IFP, and
572
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.640
you know some actually professional actors believe or not from
573
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.920
the area. They were willing to do it for you know,
574
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.119
pizza and die coke. And it was literally like, I
575
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.599
eight hundred bucks for eighty three minute feature film. What
576
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:24.960
you gotta can send me if you want to watch
577
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.000
your link to your your podcast listeners. And it actually
578
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:30.960
played some festivals and it did very well one award,
579
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:33.599
and it was you know, people either loved it or
580
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.039
hated it, and those that loved it really loved it,
581
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.319
and those they hate it really hated it. But it
582
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.920
was it was really proving for me that I actually
583
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:42.279
could make our feature film, and until then it was
584
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.599
just kind of something that other people didn't. And you know,
585
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:47.160
we started with the short film and I just kept
586
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:48.960
writting more and more pages along the lines of this
587
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.359
the story, and before we knew we had forty or
588
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.759
fifty minutes, I'm like, well, if it's gonna be that long,
589
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:55.240
let's make it a feature. And we just blew it
590
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:58.319
out to a full arc of a film. I think
591
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.519
it was eighty three minutes until and just did it
592
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:05.839
on you know, literally less than a thousand bucks.
593
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.119
And you know, once you actually were able to shoot this,
594
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:11.640
you know what what locations we were? You like us
595
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:14.680
and you used you know, I mean, do you ever uh,
596
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.200
while while I'm thinking of it, I'll kind of shoot
597
00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.039
myself in another question, do you ever did you ever
598
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.400
shoot at your office? I mean, obviously if you want
599
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.640
to answer that you don't have to, but if that's
600
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:24.839
like the secret, but.
601
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.079
No, we not in my office, but we shot at
602
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.680
for both a couple of scenes in twin Cities and
603
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.799
a couple of scenes and uh twenty twenty one, my
604
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.880
second feature, we shot at my wife's office, which is
605
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:46.480
was Minnesota Public Radio. So they they were very you know,
606
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.920
accommodate of that kind of endeavor and they they let
607
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:50.640
us shoot there for free and it was great. So
608
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:53.519
we shot. You don't know, if it's just unline for
609
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.839
the last the last two features, we'll be.
610
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:03.119
Right back after a word from our sponsor and now
611
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:03.920
back to the show.
612
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:07.960
So they just basically do they ask you like anything
613
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.400
like the usual two questions are is there nudity? And
614
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:13.559
is their blood? That that's and every time I've walked
615
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:18.200
up locations that was the two questions. Is there violence
616
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.680
like blood or is their nudity? And and usually the
617
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:21.720
answer is yes.
618
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:27.119
No, Uh, there's actually a no on both those accounts.
619
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:29.519
For for us even better, even better, But.
620
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.160
They didn't ask We could have done that. I should
621
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.920
have probably thrown that in there, you know. Good, so
622
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:39.000
no no duty or violence, but not because we couldn't.
623
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:43.920
It's usually when when when you're asking those things they
624
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:45.519
do they ask you about insurance.
625
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.000
They were just incredibly lax about the whole thing. No,
626
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.680
they didn't ask about any shit. It was just kind
627
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.440
of like, we're gonna come in on a Saturday and
628
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:54.559
we're gonna shoot from you know, eight to five. And
629
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.880
you know, my wife came with me because she works there,
630
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:02.039
and didn't really ask any questions. They were they thought
631
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.279
it was great. So I think that's you got to
632
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:06.599
really be carefully you choose. I don't think my equlab
633
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.000
would have been that way where I work. So they
634
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.279
were just like, hey, just go ahead and do it.
635
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:14.680
So I got lucky, the very lucky my friend. See,
636
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:16.680
that's the thing, man, when when you have a connect
637
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:18.640
there and you're able to come in and professional and
638
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:21.799
also you know you're still in an area where, hey,
639
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:24.480
filmmaking is you know, people haven't beat over the head
640
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:27.559
with it like a sack of oranges. You're kind of like, hey, look,
641
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:29.400
you know it's still cool and neat, and you know
642
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.440
Dave's wife works here and this and that. You know,
643
00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.079
because because you know, they always say in LA in
644
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.480
New York, as soon as we ask to film somewhere
645
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.440
it becomes like a huge pain in the ass and
646
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.279
they're like another thing was to you know what I mean,
647
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:43.319
And it's just it doesn't have that that cool cache anymore.
648
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:45.599
So Philly was kind of like that for a while.
649
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:47.119
Now it's back up to be like, hey, you're you're
650
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:49.079
doing something, are awesome. I want to help you out.
651
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:49.599
Uh.
652
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.440
But but that those are the things that for all
653
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.519
the all the listeners I keep harping on about locations,
654
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:58.240
it's it's the blood, gore, the violence of the nudity.
655
00:31:58.640 --> 00:31:58.799
Uh.
656
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:01.839
They sometimes ask about out insurance. I mean, you can
657
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:05.519
always sign waivers, but I mean if they allow you
658
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:07.240
just to make hey, look, you know we trust you
659
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.359
and you're not gonna do anything crazy. You know that
660
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:10.720
that you can't beat that, it's amazing.
661
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:14.559
Yeah. That was actually probably the easiest location we had.
662
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:17.480
I mean we had some that were not not easy.
663
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:22.799
We shot a day at a hospital er parking lot
664
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.880
and it was I didn't have says, I didn't have
665
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.960
permission for it. We got permotion for everything else, but
666
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:31.680
we were going to get it. But we needed this
667
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.559
very key scene, which is actually the last scene in
668
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:39.759
the film, and we shot pretty much an entire day,
669
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:45.319
and it was all in interior of my sev and
670
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.480
about halfway through they came out with security and they said,
671
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.160
you know what, what the fuck are you doing? Basically,
672
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:55.799
and I'm not sure what what words I strung together
673
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:57.400
to get them to go away, but somehow I did it,
674
00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:02.519
and we just kept shooting, and you know, day turned
675
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:04.559
the night and they finally came out with more security
676
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:09.440
dudes and probably some firearms and and such, and they're like, Okay,
677
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:11.440
whatever you antellis is not going to work. You need
678
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:14.440
to get that out of air. And fortunately we were
679
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.799
done except for one shot. So we went to a
680
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:19.920
different parking lot where we could just see the exterior
681
00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:23.519
shot and and patch together and work perfectly. But that
682
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.519
was probably the most stressful day of shooting I've ever had,
683
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:32.400
because you had, uh, you know, ere our parking lot
684
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:36.240
and kind of swarming security guards and I knew we
685
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:37.960
had we probably couldnt shoot nowhere else and get the
686
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.000
same kind of shot, and we had to have the
687
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:44.359
scene to make the film work. So you know, I
688
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.400
wouldn't recommend that, but we did it.
689
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:50.480
So Lesson learned, well, you know that that's amazing that
690
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.359
you were able to get him go away the first time.
691
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.720
Yeah, yeah, I don't re call what I said. I
692
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:58.000
probably pulled some I don't know one to have pulled
693
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:00.079
my butt. I couldn't. I could not tell you. But
694
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:03.279
they I think they just scratch their heads and left
695
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:04.759
and we just sid okay, let's keep shooting, and we
696
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:09.079
powered through. And we've had you know, I've had a
697
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:11.159
few similar shoots like that where you're just really on
698
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:14.960
a tight deadline, but they always know you're you're you're
699
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:16.480
supposed to be there. But this was one where we
700
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.840
just we're just gonna do it even though we're not
701
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:21.679
supposed to be there, and you know it's in the film,
702
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:24.559
so it works out.
703
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:27.079
I mean, like literally, you guys just rolled up into
704
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.119
that hospital parking lot and like I was, shoot here.
705
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:33.239
Yeah, they had it's got like I got to have
706
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:36.800
an eight or nine other e R parking lots, and
707
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.599
I wanted something that where we could it's hard describe.
708
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:42.599
I want a certain shot, and I wanted to have
709
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:48.280
like the emergency parking lots signed the background and to
710
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:51.039
make it all kind of come together. And it was
711
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:52.800
the only parking lot I could find that works. I
712
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.920
really wanted to to shoot there. I didn't think we'd
713
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:59.920
have a shot and help we asked, so we just
714
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:01.760
kind of just did it, you know.
715
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.880
And that's gorilla filmmaking, right, You gotta just you just
716
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.360
gotta go out there and do it, you know. I imagine,
717
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.559
And I'm just gonna just just food for thought, Dave.
718
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:14.519
I'm gonna imagine that when they probably approached you, they
719
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:16.719
probably said are you guys supposed to be here or
720
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.599
something like that. You and you probably said, oh, yeah, yeah,
721
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:22.159
we're just finishing up and this and that, and they
722
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.599
probably went away to go check. Because I've seen that
723
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:27.440
happen before. They're like, oh, oh, are you guys supposed
724
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.480
to be here? Yes, And then by the time they
725
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.440
get back, you're either gone, or they forgotten, or they
726
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.440
don't care anymore to even pass it up to the line.
727
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.119
And and but it seems like that time they actually
728
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:39.760
did they actually.
729
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:41.679
It was probably three or four hours later. That's the thing.
730
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:44.800
I knew, if they're gonna go check. I think it
731
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:46.280
was kind of like, well, these guys will leave pretty
732
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:49.440
soon anyway. We'll let this one go with that. We're
733
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.039
out there, you know, four or five hours later, they're
734
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:55.840
probably Okay, this is not cool, so I'm not I
735
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.400
can't sound im proud of that. But it turned out great,
736
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:02.679
you know. And that's that's that's the non Hollywood filmmaking
737
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:03.280
right there.
738
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.519
Yeah, it's the true indie film spirit. Matt, my friend
739
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:09.320
at that. That's what that is. That's what you gotta do.
740
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.199
You gotta you gotta steal locations at times, and that's uh,
741
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:13.679
you know. I I one time I was talking to
742
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.360
Scott macmand and runs Film Trooper, uh, and I told him,
743
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:18.079
I said, I think that's the number one problem for
744
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:23.760
most filmmakers is getting locations. And I honestly I I
745
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:26.000
often said it'll be a great idea and it could
746
00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:29.199
never work. But here's my idea, Dave. It's like a hub,
747
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:33.280
kind of like Facebook. You could friend another filmmaker and
748
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.280
let's say, you know you, you and I both lived,
749
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.679
and let's just say boise Idaho, Well I have film
750
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:42.000
connections and and you know you have film connections. Well
751
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:43.880
we could sort of put up the you put up
752
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:46.639
on a on a on a poster or whatever. Hey,
753
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.159
look this is who I know at this hospital. This
754
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:51.519
is what they did. They let me shoot here. Uh,
755
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:53.360
you know what I mean like obviously you wouldn't do
756
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.119
it to your for your own house unless you were insane,
757
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:57.840
but you know if they if you, they would let
758
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.320
you shoot somewhere and make me, hey, this is an
759
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:01.679
abandoned house, this is how I got to shoot there,
760
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:05.400
blah blah blah. And that's basically it almost become like
761
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.880
this collage of sorts of city by city of all
762
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.400
the places where you could where you could shoot, and
763
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:15.079
that are that are friend friendly to filmmakers.
764
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.880
Oh that's a great Yeah, yeah, that's you know, someone
765
00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:22.400
we got through the film board. They would post locations
766
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:26.119
online and you I'd call the film and say, hey,
767
00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:28.199
look that that's a film friendly place and they would
768
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:31.400
always say yes, but I love your idea. I mean,
769
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:33.400
anything like that, because it's a very dawning when you
770
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:36.000
start an indie film to not know where you can
771
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.079
shoot it, and you know, when you don't have a
772
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:42.000
lot of cash to get these guys to shoot, you're
773
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.000
really just kind of begging, which I've done a lot of.
774
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:48.000
But do you kind of just kind of learn how
775
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:50.719
to what they want to hear? You know, like I said, insurance,
776
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.679
we generally do get insurance and waivers and all that kind
777
00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:57.079
of stuff, you know, and then you figure out, you know,
778
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.159
what what to say to get the local. But every
779
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.039
location I think I've had, even you know, where we're
780
00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:08.039
supposed to be, it's it's super stressful because usually it's
781
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.159
in my case, it's been you know, a bar that
782
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.280
opens at eleven for lunch, so you've got like four
783
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.440
in the morning until eleven thirty, and then you got
784
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.800
to get in six pages or something. And every single
785
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.360
location shoot I've been on, besides my wife's office, it's
786
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.480
been that kind of pressure. And that's it because comes
787
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:26.400
with the territory. I think. You know, that's again the
788
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:30.519
not Hollywood filmmaking that you just somehow make it work, right.
789
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:33.760
Yeah, exactly because I And I've been there before too, man,
790
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:35.960
where I've showed up on a Saturday morning at like
791
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.840
six or seven am and they're like, oh, yeah, well
792
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.039
we're going to open today at one or whatever, and
793
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.719
You're like, all right, well here we go, right, let's
794
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.519
get let's get wrong with this bad boy. And so
795
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:49.320
I mean, and I've been there man, where people don't
796
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:53.840
show up, you know, people show up late or ultra late.
797
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:57.519
I mean, I you know, at some point I should
798
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.000
just do a podcast one episode. Why just tell a story?
799
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.880
But all the all the horror stories I have, but
800
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:05.000
I remember, I mean some of these where people would
801
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.320
show up not at all and you're sitting there calling
802
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.400
them and they're like, oh, I forgot today was the thing,
803
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:11.280
And I'm like, well, I sent you ten thousand emails?
804
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.360
How the hell did you fuit this?
805
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:20.599
Yeah, that's that is the most. You can count on,
806
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:22.440
that more anything else in any filmingause somebody's not gonna
807
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:26.119
show up or show up late, and you know that
808
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.440
that's that's a given. I mean, Twin City is uh
809
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:32.400
another kind of example of working around stuff. Have you
810
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:34.480
seen the film? Are Not? But the lead character, the
811
00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:38.000
lead uh character, Emily, is played a Bethany Fort Bankley,
812
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:42.119
and she's awesome, but she was actually had like a
813
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:46.159
five month old kid when we were shooting, so she'd
814
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:48.559
sometimes I have to bring her baby on set and
815
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.239
it would usually had nanny therefore, but we'd be through,
816
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.880
halfway through a really intense scene that's going well, and
817
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:55.320
then the baby start crying.
818
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.599
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
819
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.960
and now back to the show.
820
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.599
And that would be the done to that, and those
821
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:14.000
are a few shoots like that. So it was always something,
822
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:15.760
and it is always something when you're working on this
823
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:17.760
kind of level of filmmaking, and you just kind of
824
00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:23.159
have to not get frustrated and just you know, working
825
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:25.880
around it somehow. But yeah, it's it's everything in the
826
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:29.440
kitchen saying for every every shoot that I've been on
827
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:30.280
at this level.
828
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.320
Yeah, you mentioned Twin Cities, and I wanted to ask
829
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.840
you about that film now because that that's you know,
830
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.440
I know, you actually debut that film, and you know
831
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:42.159
it's been playing in a few festivals. So I wanted
832
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:44.159
to ask, you know, if you could just you know,
833
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:46.440
take us through the film, you know, you give us
834
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:47.440
a long life, you could.
835
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.440
Yeah. So it's actually a sequel to twenty twenty one,
836
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.719
of my second feature film, but it's a very kind
837
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.440
of spiritual sequel versus like an additional sequel. But it
838
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.760
picks up four years later with thesely characters John Emily
839
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:09.159
and they're married now and the bleak character Emily, as
840
00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:14.480
I mentioned, she's actually pregnant. Someone's pregnant with their first kid,
841
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.079
and that kind of sends the husband John into a
842
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.920
tail span, and you know, things are really falling apart
843
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:27.039
and looks like it's all going to kind of turn
844
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:30.280
a ship for for the couple in their lives. And
845
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:35.079
he gets his cancer diagnosis which shakes him out of
846
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:39.000
his his downward spiral and sets him on kind of
847
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:42.239
a new course in life to you know, make amends
848
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.760
with his wife and to kind of find his God
849
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:46.559
and go on this sort of spiritual journey to to
850
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:51.159
find himself. And that's the basic set of the film.
851
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:54.840
There is about halfway through a very i would say
852
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.920
extreme twist which I gentally don't give away in case
853
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.360
folks want to see the film, but it really from
854
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:03.000
that point on becomes a much different kind of film
855
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:06.320
in terms of I would say, a different kind of film.
856
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:09.840
But the plot kind of turns on its head and
857
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:13.719
it becomes a sort of a more reflective type of
858
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:18.559
narrow structure. That is really the reason why it's called Twins.
859
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:21.760
That besides back that libert it's it's got a kind
860
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:25.119
of dualistic narrative that it plays out after this very
861
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.880
jarring twist to the to the plot and it you know,
862
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:33.920
it kind of gets bananas from there at that point.
863
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:37.760
So that's probably a much I can tell you without
864
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:39.920
spoiling the whole damn thing. But that's that's the basic
865
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:41.000
setup of the film.
866
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.039
And so you know, once you actually wrote the screenplay
867
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.880
for this, Dave, you know, how did you go about
868
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:49.800
raising the funds to actually shoot this? Did you sell
869
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:51.159
finance this movie.
870
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.719
Most of it? Yeah? I mean generally what I've done
871
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:58.920
is I just put my an angle bonus my job,
872
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.639
and I you know, I just put my bonus in
873
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:05.360
it when I'm making a film, and I never really
874
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:12.159
use my actual paycheck for filmmaking. So you know, for
875
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:14.119
this one, I used a couple bonuses and I used
876
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:16.760
I got a snowbathed from the Minnesota Film Board. They
877
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.559
played for a good check of it through their their
878
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:24.039
rebate program, which is really an incentive to to film
879
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.519
in Minnesota, and that was that was very helpful as well.
880
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.840
So when when you told your wife wanted to make
881
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:33.800
a film with the bonus, did she just fu did
882
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:35.880
he think you were crazy? Or or she used to
883
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:40.960
it like okay, David, you know it's yeah.
884
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:42.760
No, she's been great. I mean she's got kind of
885
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:44.880
her own artistic endeavors, so it kind of he wents out.
886
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.079
I want to go into that but it kind of
887
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:48.760
we both have this sort of side thing. We did
888
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.960
our job. She's a hr director and has her own
889
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:54.719
kind of career, but then she also does a lot
890
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:59.480
of artistic stuff on the side that balances out what
891
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.679
I do. Know, we're we're very accounting with each other, like,
892
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:04.599
you know, how I want to, you know, spend some
893
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:06.119
cash on on this thing that I really am a
894
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:08.840
passionate about. And it really wasn't very hard of us sell.
895
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:11.360
I did the same thing for a second film and
896
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:15.719
she was around for that as well. So I think
897
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:17.280
it'd be different for us saying well, look, you know,
898
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:20.039
we're gonna have trouble maybe making more eaes now because
899
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.280
I use my paycheck for this. The fact that's really
900
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.840
just my bonus. It's kind of like, well it's found
901
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:28.039
one anyway, and you know, uh, go for it. So
902
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:31.519
she's been great, honestly, not kind of the opposite of
903
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:33.760
what you might expect, but she's been fantastic about the
904
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:34.119
whole thing.
905
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.400
Yeah, I And and you know that that's good that
906
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:40.239
that you know, she's supportive of this. And so where
907
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:42.840
people where can people find out more about Twin Cities?
908
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.760
Yeah? So the website is uh just Twin Cities the
909
00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:50.639
film dot com. We've got our trailer on there, a
910
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:54.360
ton of stuff, you know, clips from the film, synopsis,
911
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:58.320
a bunch of reviews for the film. We've actually got
912
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.159
I think, really great reviews for the film. So there's
913
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:04.039
a lot of that on there, casting crew bios, you know,
914
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.000
all the all the stuff you'd want on a website.
915
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:07.079
More is on there.
916
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:10.280
And I will link to that in the show notes
917
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:12.719
everyone at davilis dot com.
918
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:13.119
Uh.
919
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:15.400
But Dave, just just in closing, you know, I wanted
920
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:16.920
to ask, is there anything we can get a chance
921
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:18.400
to talk about that you want to just to say
922
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.159
right now? Anything you want to discuss right now, or
923
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:22.000
or maybe it's just something you want to say to
924
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:23.760
put a period at the end of this whole conversation.
925
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:27.960
Yeah, I guess, Well, two things. I mean, first of all,
926
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:29.599
what I'm working on now. I've been working on a
927
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:32.519
TV series since we finished Twin Cities production about a
928
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:34.840
year year and a half ago, so that's kind of
929
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:37.679
my next thing. So I'm you know, you know, doing
930
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:39.679
press for the film, but also kind of trying to
931
00:45:41.079 --> 00:45:43.920
you know, generate some possible interest in in this. Uh.
932
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.719
I think it's gonna be a nine episode first season series.
933
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:50.320
I'm working on that. Hopefully we'll get some external financing
934
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.960
for I'm not using my bonies for that. So, uh,
935
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:54.360
that's the first thing that's just kind of throwing at
936
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:56.199
that out there, that that's sort of my next project,
937
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.559
and I'm really excited about it. Yeah, beyond that, I
938
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:03.440
think you know it, you know, I think what's interesting
939
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:05.119
about my story Probably reason to i'd be honest, is
940
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.559
because I've got this whole other life besides filmmaking. So
941
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.960
you know, I do try to encourage folks that want
942
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.280
to get into filmmaking, would think that they can't because
943
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:19.360
they've got this you know, very consuming day job or
944
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.639
anything else in life that think is is not going
945
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.519
to let it happen. That that's possible, and you really
946
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:27.960
just need to start and just do it, you know,
947
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:30.719
rather than you know, think about doing it or reading
948
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:33.199
books about doing it and and such. If you want
949
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:34.480
to make it in a filmmaking I would say, you know,
950
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.280
start with a two minute film and whatever you money
951
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.519
you have for if it's a ten dollars ten bucks
952
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:41.079
you've got laying around, make a ten dollars two minute film.
953
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:42.599
You got a hundred bucks and a hund dollar film.
954
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:46.239
But you know, I would just encourage folks too, if
955
00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:50.400
they've always wanted to get into filmmaking, just do it.
956
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:53.079
And if you go to my website and go to
957
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:55.039
the contact page, I think that goes directly in my email.
958
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.800
If you are interested this kind of thing, you want
959
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:01.679
to kind of know more about how I've you know,
960
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:04.159
I've been making this kind of life work with the
961
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:06.800
filmmaking and everything else, you know, definitely email me and
962
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:08.719
I can help you out as much as I can.
963
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:11.119
But that's that's the big thing I want to get
964
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.960
across as well to your audience is that, you know,
965
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.360
try to encourage folks to to get into filmmaking that
966
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.239
maybe are not sure if they can or I have
967
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:22.679
the time to do it.
968
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:26.239
Yeah, I just don't ask you for mentorships, right, I
969
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:28.440
don't ask to to take you to meet somebody.
970
00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:31.599
Yeah, it was probably it was probably overly, uh you
971
00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:35.960
know whatever about that. But I I'm happy to impart
972
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.599
whatever advice I have. But yeah, I can't do a
973
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.039
full time mentorship at this point unfortunately. But uh, maybe
974
00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:44.559
someday that'll be part of the mix, but right now
975
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:44.960
it's not.
976
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:46.920
Well, you know it's it's like I say, Dave, when
977
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:50.400
any anybody who listens to this podcast or what have
978
00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:53.239
you asked to meet me for coffee or as to
979
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.039
meet me meet me for coffee or what have you
980
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:59.159
and or whatever, I always say this. I said, it's pointless. Uh,
981
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:01.360
if you should got me an email, it would it
982
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:04.519
would do you ten times the benefit the meeting me
983
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:06.920
for coffee, because we both have to drive out there,
984
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.280
get a fine parking, it's gonna be crowded, it's gonna
985
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.519
be loud, and would you know if you if you
986
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.719
send an email, it's you know, you can do it
987
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.599
from anywhere. You do it on your way to work
988
00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:21.079
or whatever, and you get a lot more from it.
989
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:23.119
You know, maybe not in the short short run, but
990
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:25.119
over the long run, if you just keep going back
991
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:27.320
and forth, it's a lot it's worth a lot more.
992
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:29.719
Maybe even one email in general.
993
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:31.000
Is worth a lot more because you can actually just
994
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:34.079
detail things out and then you also have a written
995
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:36.199
transcription of most of what the meeting would have been.
996
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:39.639
I just have never or the second part is, you know,
997
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:41.400
just meet me at an at an event, you know,
998
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:44.760
if I'm ever at one of these events, the Blacklist Philly.
999
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:46.679
I might end up going to one of their events.
1000
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:48.840
I'm not sure, though I haven't. I don't know. I'm
1001
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:50.679
kind of networking event out, Dave. I don't know if
1002
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.039
you are, but I'm just like, people invite me all
1003
00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:54.960
the time to these things, and I'm like, you know what,
1004
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:57.119
I've done a ton of them when I when I
1005
00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:59.039
was just starting out, and I got burned out of
1006
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:01.920
them real quick, and I haven't been back since. You know.
1007
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:04.239
It's just I just sometimes feel it's a lot of
1008
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:06.960
you know, I was one time part of a screenwriting
1009
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.400
group and every meeting we had a new batch of
1010
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:13.199
people come in, right, So it was always like bringing
1011
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:15.760
people up to speed about what screenwriting is. And then
1012
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:18.119
it'll be like February and then by the end of
1013
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:21.760
the middle of summer they're like, yeah, we've had fifty
1014
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:25.039
sixty seventy people come through here, but we have never
1015
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.119
gotten passed, like teaching the basis of screenwriting.
1016
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:32.440
Right, Yeah, I hear you, man, Syria.
1017
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:34.639
So, Dave, where can we'ple find you out online?
1018
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:38.760
I think the best place to start is that you know,
1019
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:43.320
twenty citysthefilm dot Com. I've put most everything I'm on
1020
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:47.079
working on. In terms of the film, I should say
1021
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:49.679
most of everything from the film was on there. I
1022
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:51.639
haven't done a worksite yet for the series I'm working on.
1023
00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:54.960
That's going to come at some point. Yeah, if you
1024
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.920
want to go to the website for my second film,
1025
00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.400
twenty twenty one, and it's twenty twenty one in the
1026
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:01.119
film dot.
1027
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.239
Com, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
1028
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:10.119
and now back to the show.
1029
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:13.599
If you want to see that film. We actually got
1030
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:18.239
distribution for that film and it's on Amazon Prime. You know,
1031
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:20.800
they can see that for for free. If you have
1032
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:23.239
Amazon Prime. Just go to twenty twenty one, put that
1033
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:25.320
in search engine for Amazon and should take you to
1034
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:28.800
the film. We got distribution for Twin Cities as well,
1035
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:31.760
so that'll be on Amazon later this year, and hopefully
1036
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:38.679
a few other paper places besides Amazon. Soulfully, that'll be
1037
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:43.719
out there, you know by fall, I'm guessing. Yeah, beyond
1038
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:45.760
that you have, Yeah, if you want to shoo an email,
1039
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:48.480
it's David ash seven at gmail dot com. I'm happy
1040
00:50:48.519 --> 00:50:52.840
to to you know, tell you whatever wherever I know,
1041
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:57.159
I'm happy to to send them along as well, so
1042
00:50:57.159 --> 00:50:59.079
that'll get started. But again if you go to Twin
1043
00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:01.199
Cities thefilm dot com. Probably most of my stuff is
1044
00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:05.960
on that page that website. It's a pretty pretty starch
1045
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:06.880
side at this point.
1046
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:11.000
Cool Dave, it's been so great avenue on man. Yea,
1047
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:13.920
and yeah, I look forward to check out your stuff.
1048
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:14.079
Man.
1049
00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:16.000
Again, we have a very similar path. That's why I
1050
00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:18.840
wanted to have you on. And again, best of luck
1051
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:20.039
to you, my friend, and I will talk to you
1052
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:20.519
very soon.
1053
00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:22.840
Yeah, thanks so much for having me down. I really
1054
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:24.079
really appreciate it, so thanks a lot.
1055
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:26.960
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
1056
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:28.480
a great job on this episode. If you want to
1057
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.400
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
1058
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:33.800
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
1059
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:36.880
Forward slash for sixty. Thank you so much for listening
1060
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:39.800
to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what.
1061
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:40.840
I'll talk to you soon.
1062
00:51:41.320 --> 00:51:45.239
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
1063
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:46.719
Screenwriting dot tv.