BPS 392: From Clerks to Shooting Boba & The Mandalorian with David Klein A.S.C.

WEBVTT
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You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more
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amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three ninety two.
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This is the way.
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Mando broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when
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we really should be working on that next draft. It's
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the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business
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of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
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And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
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episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host,
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Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now,
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unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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on the kind of project you are and the goals
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of the project you are, So we actually break it
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down by three categories, micro bud, Indie Film market, and
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reader that's used to reading temp pole movies when your
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movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars.
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And we wanted to focus on that at Bulletproof Script Coverage,
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our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, w MEE, NBC, HBO, Disney,
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Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more.
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So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered
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by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com.
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Today on the show, we have David Klein, ASC cinematographer extraordinaire. Now,
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David has been doing some amazing work lately with the
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shows The Book of Boba and The Mandalorian, but how
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he got his start is one of the main reasons
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I wanted him on the show. He was a cinematographer
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of the indie film Classic Clerks, as well as Chasing Amy,
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Maul Rats and a few other of the early films
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of Kevin Smith. And we go so deep into what
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happened during the nineties, what happened to his career, how
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he was able to kind of claw his way out
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of the repugnant Harvey Weinstein pit that he was put into,
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and so many other things. It's a fascinating conversation, and
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we also get into the weeds about how he lights
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the volume for shooting with Boba Fett and with the
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Mandalorian and get into some geek geekiness as well. David
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is wonderful and we had a fantastic, fantastic time. So
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without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with David Klein.
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I like to welcome to the show, David Klein.
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Man.
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How you doing, David. I'm good, I'll try I'm doing great,
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brother doing great.
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Man.
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We've been trying to get this ready and recorded for
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god months now at this point. But you're busy, man.
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You're working on Boba, You're working on Mendalorian, you know,
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saving the world little by little.
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So I don't know about all that, but the first
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two things are true exactly.
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So I appreciate you taking the time out of your
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business schedule to come and talk to the tribe. My friend. Absolutely, So,
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first questions I have for you, man, why God's Green Earth?
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Did you want to get into insane in the sanity
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insanity that is this business?
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Probably because I didn't know that the hours were going
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to be what they are.
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No one told you that, No one told me you
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went into the words. You didn't. You didn't have this
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podcast back in the night.
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I thought it was going to be I thought it
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was going to be hanging out with cool, famous people
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and you know, doing cool stuff, which is which is true.
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These things are true.
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But uh uh man, the hours are crazy. They're they're
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absolutely just insane. But to age your question, I always,
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you know, I always was into movies.
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I think it was Blade Runner.
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I know it was Blade Runner that my father took
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me to when I was what thirteen ers or so,
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and he took me to the drive in.
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We watched it at the drive in, and I remember leaving
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and saying to him, you know, Dad, I think I
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want to make movies. And He's like, sure, Ki, whatever,
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you know, do it, do whatever you want to do.
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And you know, he was fully supportive and he actually
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helped me. You know, my grandfather gave me this sixty milimeter.
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Bullocks when I was young.
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And my father, you know, at the time, we had
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the VHS cam quorder that would actually plug into the
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you know, the VCR that you had to take with you,
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you know, from the top of the TV yep. And
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so I had those two devices and started making you know,
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stop animation films.
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And you know, funny enough, I there was a kid
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I ordered that special edition Boba fet you know, which.
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You take like the box tops from from General Mills,
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I think it was, and he's got a check from
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my dad and you send it to somewhere in Minnesota
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wherever it was, and you wait.
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Like eight to twelve weeks, and you're supposed to get
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this little boa fet.
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That comes with a rocket that shoots out of its
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back right, And it shows up weeks and weeks later,
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and the fucking rockets gluted its back right. So I
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blew the holy hell out of that thing when we
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were making one of these little sixteen.
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Millimeters stop animation films.
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And you know, it's I think it's it's fitting that
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I would end up on some of these Star Wars
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shows after that, you know.
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And how much and how much? Yeah, how much would
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that bubb would that be worth today?
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I think about eighteen thousand dollars.
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Yeah, yeah, that would be That's a good return on investment,
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I think.
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I get.
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Oh man, listen, we all do things to our Star
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Wars stores when we were younger.
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That it was fine. Yeah.
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You know, my dad used to help me with those
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you know, those rockets, the little model rockets that he
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set up the shoot off and they'll parachute, and so
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one day I took one of the engines to him
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and I said, Dad, if I cut the nozzle off
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of this thing and put a like a wick in there,
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will it just explode?
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And he was like, come again, And I think he
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thought maybe I should have helped you out.
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And you know, so he became my my He became
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my grip, my gap for my special effects man.
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Everything that's amazing.
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He was not in the business, but he was no
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slouch when it came to helping his kids out.
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Did you ever invite him on any of the sets
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that you worked on?
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I did, I did. I don't think he ever. He
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passed a few years back. But and I don't know
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that he ever really understood what.
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I do same here, but they who were there were
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some times, you know, I was doing a show in Hawaii, actually,
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and I think that's why he came. But he came
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to set and you know, spent a week on and
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off the set and had a good time, you know.
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But still I don't think it sunk in what what
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precisely my job is.
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Yeah, my dad. I invited my dad on to a
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set that a commercial said. I was directing commercial and
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and he just was like looking around, and he went
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back and told his family and friends. Everyone just listens
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to Alex. That's all everyone did, he says, And they move,
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and they move. That's all I know. I don't understand.
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Still to this day, he still doesn't understand what I'm
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doing right, let alone this, this is, this is insane.
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Well, for sure, I think at times I don't understand
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what I do.
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You know what I mean. I still have so much
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to learn.
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So when you started off in your career, my friend,
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you started off on a little film, a little black
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and white movie called Clerks, with a little unknown director
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uh named Kevin Smith and an unknown producer named Scott Moser.
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Now we've had the pleasure of having Scott on the
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show as well, so I've heard it from his perspective
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on how a lot of this stuff went down. How
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did you get roped into this insanity that was Clerk's.
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Well, it started the way so many stories start. Alex.
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I follow a girl in college, right and about two
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weeks after we got there, she she doted me for
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another young woman, which you know, telling understandable even cool
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now at the time for an eighteen year old young
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man of his.
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Heartbreaking, right, and so I was like, fuck this place, man,
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I'm going.
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To film school, which I had always wanted to do anyway,
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but didn't have the courage.
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I guess to go and you know, just go for it.
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And so I found the Vancouver Film School, which used
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to advertise very heavily an American cinematographer, which is where
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I saw it, and you know, they were They have
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a sister school now, which is the Los Angeles Film
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School here in La on Sunset.
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They're almost identical programs. At the time, there was just the.
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Vancouver Film School and it was a one year program
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and they had class that started every two months, so
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every other.
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Month the new class started.
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And this young lady that broke my heart put me
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on a path to end up in the same class
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with Kevin and Scott, you know, had it not been
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for her and all that timing, which you know is
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the luck part of how you get into this business
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and you know, what put you where you are, I
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guess she was the luck part of it. And she
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put me in the class with Kevin Scott.
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You know, her time put me there.
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And and to be honest, after you know, Kevin dropped
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out halfway through the.
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Program to save the rest of the situation for the movie,
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and Mosure and I finished.
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And the reason they wanted to bring me on to Clerks,
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you know, too told is because they didn't.
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Want a cinematographer.
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Her knew more than they did, and you know I
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had I think I had focused. I know I had
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focused more into the cinematography aspect at the Vancouver Film School.
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But still, you know, it was a one year program.
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How much can you can you learn in one year
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of hands on? Not a whole lot. But I think
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the biggest compliment I got from Clerks was when we
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were doing the sixteen regular sixteen millimeters to thirty five
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blow up.
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We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
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and now back to the show.
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We did a lab called Goofante Film Lab or Deafonti
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Filmworks in New York, and the biggest company I got
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was that I exposed the film properly and really.
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Well, you know, from from my point of view. I mean,
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I've watched Clerks multiple times in my life. It's exposed.
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I mean.
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You're right about that, Alex. It is exposed.
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It is exposed. You didn't under exposed. You didn't overexposed.
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I mean, it's man, you you did you exposed And
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it's so fascinating. I mean, and for people listening, the
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young'ins listening. You shot this on sixteen, not even super sixteen,
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just straight sixteen.
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Right, it was regular sixteen.
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Regular sixteen, wasn't It wasn't mos it was sicking.
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No, no, no, it was since sound.
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And we got all the uh, all the you know,
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the camera equipment and the audio equipment from a guy
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named Mike Sparra who had a little company called it
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was called Pro Camera I think at the time, and
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he actually went on to run the studio in Astoria,
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you know.
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Oh yeah, the big one over there.
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Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly for for a quite a few years.
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And I ran into him years all those years later
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when Kevin and I were there doing cop out, which
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was which was kind of cool, but it was basically
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all we could afford this this era flex SR just an.
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SR It was just it was a straight up it
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was a straight.
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Up SR one, straight up SR one, and it was
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all we could afford. I think we had thirty five
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hundred dollars for all the you know, camera equipment and
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audio equipment for the run of the show, which was
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about four weeks, and so he's like, that's the one
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you get.
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And it sounded like a machine gun. It did.
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And I mean we had we had, you know, the
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the little barney that comes with it. We also had
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I would end up operating the camera with that barney
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and just leather jackets and all sorts of blankets and
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whatnot on my head just so we weren't recording some
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of that that machine gun on my camera.
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Right, because you didn't did you have a blimp or
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you didn't have a blimp.
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00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:06.559
We had just the you know, the standard that goes
251
00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:10.039
over it, you know, another kind of leather thing which.
252
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Use was useless.
253
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:14.440
Essentially, it was relatively useless. All the sound just coming
254
00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:15.320
out of the lens, you.
255
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Know what I mean.
256
00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.360
Right, I'll tell you what my when I was in
257
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film school, the camera I got to use was the
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SR three and that was that who we were the
259
00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:26.080
first that.
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Was slick man.
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00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:29.519
I mean, but I think by the time we were
262
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.960
we shot Chasing Amy Super sixteen on an SR three.
263
00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.039
It was a great camera. That was one of the
264
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:36.799
best sixteen cameras out there.
265
00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.159
Yeah, oh yeah, solid, and you could you can hook
266
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up your laptop to get like reports and stuff.
267
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You know.
268
00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:43.759
That was like the big thing, like you could hook
269
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up a laptop.
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I remember that.
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I remember playing, not with the SR three, but I
272
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remember plugging my laptop into a five thirty five and
273
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oh yeah, doing the speed changes.
274
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And that sort of thing. It was that.
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It was that black and white MacBook bro not even
276
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the Magua pros black and white Mac but with a
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one hundred and ten megabyte hard drive, you.
278
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Know, which was which was screaming back then.
279
00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.159
Oh yeah, you think I'll never fill this up? I said.
280
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Email is bigger than that.
281
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You know what I mean exactly, So so I have
282
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.039
to like the ins and outs. I mean, you guys
283
00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.639
shot that movie. What in what I remember correctly, it
284
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:22.759
was like a few weeks or was it a month?
285
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.120
It was it was it was four weeks really, but
286
00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.279
you know, it was all nights.
287
00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:28.679
You know.
288
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:31.639
That's why Kevin wrote into the script that somebody jammed
289
00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.039
Gum in the locks because we couldn't we couldn't have
290
00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.799
the store during the day, and so we shot nights
291
00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:40.600
and we had the store from about I want to say,
292
00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.120
we had it from eleven PM until five am.
293
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:45.159
You know, so they were they were sure, but.
294
00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.440
You know, we would shoot and then Kevin would actually
295
00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.919
work at the store either either the community store at
296
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.440
the v Store all day and then we you know,
297
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.879
he'd find maybe a little time for for sleep, a
298
00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.480
little bit asleep, and then we'd get right back the shooting.
299
00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:03.440
So it was there was more days than you would
300
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:05.879
expect that they were shorter, you know, short, did you?
301
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.080
I mean I did. I remember when I was coming
302
00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:12.000
up and I would walk on set as a as
303
00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:15.600
a director, man, I early on, you just don't know
304
00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:20.360
what you don't know. So luckily for you, was there
305
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.200
anybody on set that knew more than you about the
306
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.919
camera department? Or were you the top of the top
307
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.080
of the hill at that point?
308
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.960
I was the top of that very small hill, and
309
00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:36.279
I was the entire department, so you know, operating the camera,
310
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.759
pulling focus and you know.
311
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.279
We're lighting too, writ or did you do like I
312
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:41.879
had a little we.
313
00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:42.360
Had a little help.
314
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.960
You know. There was a cat named ed Hapstack who
315
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.080
was a friend of Kevin's and he would show up
316
00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:48.320
and Vinnie Pereiro would show up.
317
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:50.440
But they had day jobs too, you know what I mean,
318
00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:55.039
So they yeah, they come in and out. People gotta work.
319
00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.039
But whenever we would go through, we'd burn through a mag.
320
00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:01.919
I we would shut down, and I'd go into the
321
00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.960
tent and change, you know, I'd reload a new mag
322
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.519
and unload the current mag.
323
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.080
So it was a one man department. You know.
324
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.360
It's also why if you look at the credits, the clerks,
325
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:17.000
the boom operator is credited as whoever grabbed the poll first,
326
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.159
you know what I mean, because it was literally whoever
327
00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.440
grabbed it. There was I wish I had a I
328
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.960
wish I carried a camera around back then still camera
329
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.600
because there was one scene where Moser and ed Hapstack
330
00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:30.360
and I were in the shot. We played the three
331
00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:34.279
people that run out from the funeral home after that
332
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:38.320
whole business goes awry, right, And so it was the
333
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:41.120
three of us and Kevin were there, and so Kevin
334
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.960
was literally operating the camera, sitting on the ground on
335
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:45.799
the on in the street.
336
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.480
He had the nagra down, you know, by his by
337
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.360
his thigh, and so he's holding the boom. He's operating
338
00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:53.320
the camera and there's the three of us running in
339
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.200
the shot. Excuse the intersection.
340
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.879
About that, but I just wish I had a photograph
341
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.159
of Kevin sitting there with the s R one with
342
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.399
the boom pole, which was I think it might have
343
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:11.840
been a hockey steak actually, with the more likely fun
344
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:12.679
attached to it.
345
00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:16.399
And it's one man band at that point.
346
00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.600
You know, so I and and I know he got
347
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.080
the he bought a rented a stem back and edited
348
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.559
the whole thing old school.
349
00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.840
Because right there in the back of the video store,
350
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:27.039
right and.
351
00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:29.080
There say I'm assuming you were there for part of
352
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:29.759
that as well.
353
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.240
Very just the very beginning. And then and then I
354
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:34.759
was out, how do you get a job too? You
355
00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:35.200
know what I mean?
356
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.200
Right yeah, because I'm sure you didn't get rich off
357
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.720
that first job as far.
358
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.080
As not at all.
359
00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.039
So so so so Clerks comes out, man, and you
360
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.919
I'm in imagining what do you think was going to happen? Seriously,
361
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.279
like I mean, from a deep piece point of view,
362
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.039
when you do a show like that, you're not going
363
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:56.639
to go this is going to go national, this is
364
00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.679
going to blow up, It's going to become a phenomenon.
365
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.000
I'm assuming that's not what you said.
366
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.320
No, it's not what any of us thought.
367
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:04.720
I think at best, we thought that it would be
368
00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.880
a calling card, just you know, to a studio or
369
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.000
a small production company to say, hey, these guys can
370
00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.119
get a film made, but so let's hire them to
371
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:13.000
do the next one.
372
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.720
Which you know, that did happen and so much more.
373
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:21.039
You know, I don't we didn't expect it to, you know,
374
00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:24.319
go to sun Dance and be the little sleeper hit
375
00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:24.880
than it was.
376
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:28.279
You know, it took off like crazy, and to.
377
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:32.640
Be honest, for me, eventually it was it was a
378
00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.400
deep hole to climb out of because to have a
379
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.079
movie that's successful.
380
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.720
And look like that is not great for a cinematographer.
381
00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:44.920
The same thing happened years later with Chasing Amy, which
382
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:46.440
is a wonderful film and I stand by.
383
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.640
It to this day, but it doesn't look great. You know,
384
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.759
it's not well lit, it's not well lensed.
385
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.160
We barely moved the camera aside from some of the
386
00:17:55.720 --> 00:18:00.400
many arguments in the movie. But you know, it was
387
00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:02.640
a successful film that didn't look that great. So again,
388
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.359
as a cinematographer, it was that was a hole to
389
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:05.359
climb out for sure.
390
00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:07.799
Yeah, because I guess you know, you were like, oh,
391
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:09.200
this would be a little thing. I can maybe show
392
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:10.640
it around a little bit. No one's ever really going
393
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:13.119
to see this and then all of a sudden you're like,
394
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:18.079
I'm known for this, Like, oh, you're the DP of Clerks, right,
395
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:20.920
And so that was a bit of a bit of
396
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.039
a challenge, a struggle.
397
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.519
It was a struggle, not as much as I might
398
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.319
be jumping ahead.
399
00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.359
But when Chasing Amy was was at Sundance, it wasn't
400
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:30.960
in competition.
401
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.160
It was just a premiere.
402
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:35.160
And you know, we had done malaretes in between, and
403
00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:39.079
malreats have been largely kind of ignored. It has since,
404
00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:41.160
I think, found a huge audience, but at the time
405
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.440
it had been ignored, and so Kevin and the rest
406
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:46.480
of us were nervous. You know, we were nervous about
407
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.160
what was going to happen with Chasing Amy. And so
408
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.880
you know, Kevin and Scott had a meeting with with
409
00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:55.480
the morally repugnant Harvey Weinstein before our screening, and Harvey,
410
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.119
you know, I think Harvey knew what he had, He
411
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.079
absolutely knew what he had in Chasing Amy, but it
412
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.599
hadn't even premier yet, hadn't even screened to a large
413
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.279
audience yet, so him was nervous about it. And so
414
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:09.920
Harvey offered him a deal for his next movie. But
415
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.599
there were stipulations, you know, Joey Adams, who was leading
416
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.799
Chase Amy, was going to be the leading dog man.
417
00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:18.839
Harvey said no, he said, that's one of the things.
418
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.559
And he said, Joey's not going to be the lead,
419
00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:22.559
and you know, Dave's not gonna be a cameraman and
420
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:23.200
whatever else.
421
00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:23.440
It was.
422
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.519
Those are the two that I really remember because after
423
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.839
that meeting, we were all staying in this this condo
424
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.400
together and Kevin takes Joey into, you know, a bedroom,
425
00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.480
and Moser takes me in the bedroom and breaks the
426
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.559
news to us, and then we all go to the premiere.
427
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.319
So you know, it was a very surreal experience to
428
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:44.000
have this audience.
429
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.400
Just adore the movie, and you know, I'm sitting in
430
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.599
the back row thinking, and I don't get to do
431
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:50.440
the fucking.
432
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.000
Next one, you know what I mean. So it was
433
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:53.799
it was a kick to the gut.
434
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:58.039
For sure, We'll be right back after a word from
435
00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:03.559
our sponsor, and now back to the show.
436
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.519
And then for you know, Ben Harvey kept me out
437
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.640
for about ten years. And in those ten years, the
438
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:14.440
first question I always got when I was in a
439
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:17.559
job interview was why aren't you shooting Kevin's current film,
440
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.559
and I would tell them the story, and you know,
441
00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:23.839
whether they thought it was true or not, or that
442
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:25.839
I was being kept out just because I was too
443
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.000
inexperienced or not good enough, it didn't matter, you know,
444
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.240
whether they believed this or that.
445
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.200
It didn't matter. For one reason or another.
446
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:35.119
I wasn't shooting his movies and so I had to
447
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.759
just get out there and I could work.
448
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:39.839
And so that's what I did, as I put myself
449
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:40.119
on a.
450
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.000
Tenure plan when I got to when I went to
451
00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.440
Los Angeles, and I said, if I'm not worrying where
452
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.119
I want to be and need to be in ten years,
453
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:48.440
then I'm going to go do something else.
454
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.000
But I'm going to give it everything i've got for
455
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:51.039
ten years.
456
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.960
And it took just about all of those years to finally,
457
00:20:55.319 --> 00:21:00.200
you know, I think get a grasp on on the
458
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.079
craft and being comfortable in what I could do with
459
00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:06.160
the crew and set.
460
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.079
And telling a story. That's what it's all about.
461
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.160
You know, you know, all the experience in the world,
462
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:13.599
if you don't know how to tell a story, it's
463
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:14.960
it's irroment, it's all irrelevant.
464
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.400
It's it's fascinating to hear that story, man, because I mean,
465
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.359
so many people looking from the outside in, you know,
466
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.000
mst like, oh, well, you know you worked with Kevin
467
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:25.799
and you did a couple of his movies, and then
468
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.640
you know your career was set, and it's complete opposite.
469
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:31.559
It was actually you had a hole to climb out
470
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.960
of in the first movie, and then the second movie
471
00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.079
or the third movie that you did with Chasing Amy,
472
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:39.599
you weren't happy with visually, so it wasn't a great
473
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.160
calling card for you visually. And then the movie that
474
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.519
might have been the movie that would have taken you
475
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:46.200
to the next level would have been Dogma because you
476
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:47.839
would have had a budget. It would have been a
477
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.640
studio project, a real a real studio project, and it
478
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:53.920
would have maybe opened up a lot of doors for you.
479
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.279
But you literally had to hustle for the next ten
480
00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:01.160
years to kind of whittle your whittle a niche in
481
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:03.000
for yourself so you could be like, no, man, I
482
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:03.920
can actually do this.
483
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:04.640
For sure.
484
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.000
It opened and opened those doors. It's a really great
485
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:08.720
lesson for people listening because it's like.
486
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:11.960
Well, it's it's a it's a good thing.
487
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.880
It's it's a hard road to travel because I had
488
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.319
to learn as I was doing it. You know, I
489
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.480
think it's it's an easier path to work, you know,
490
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:25.960
under somebody with a lot of experience, because you know,
491
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.640
everybody you ever meet on a set or in life
492
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:31.680
knows something that you don't, and you can learn something
493
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:34.119
from them, Especially on a film set. If you work
494
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.319
with somebody who's got a lot of experience, you're going
495
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:37.640
to learn so much just.
496
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:42.240
By watching, just by you know, watching what they're doing.
497
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.920
Yeah, exactly, And so to do to learn it on
498
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:49.640
the job was rough and there are a lot of.
499
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:53.240
Rough looking projects that I did. You know, it wasn't.
500
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:56.440
I don't think it was until nineteen ninety nine when
501
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:57.359
I really.
502
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:08.160
Started to figure out and figure out that.
503
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:07.880
I want to say, how to like? But who knows
504
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:08.440
how to like it?
505
00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:12.079
Until you found a groove that you felt comfortable in
506
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.519
and felt comfortable with the quality of the work that
507
00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.400
you felt from your own eye that you were comfortable with, Like,
508
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.799
I feel like I'm getting a grasp of this. I
509
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.440
like like I've talked to so many cinematographers over the years, man,
510
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.319
and all of them say the same thing. It's an
511
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:28.000
impossibility to master the craft. One hundred percent. There's just
512
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.960
so much to understand and learn, and then you look
513
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.359
at you know, you look at someone like Deacons, you know,
514
00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:38.319
and you see what they're doing. They are arguably masters
515
00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:41.200
at what they do. But there's you could probably count
516
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.720
those on one or two hands that are alive that
517
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.319
are just at that level there, just like at a
518
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:51.039
it's like looking at a director and going, oh, Chris Nolan,
519
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:55.359
David Fincher, You're like, they are at the top of
520
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.440
the game. Like, there's very few of those. Pete Spielberg.
521
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.920
There's very few of these kind of people in the world.
522
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:05.119
So it's tough. I have to ask you, though, man,
523
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.519
when you were during those ten years, did you ever
524
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.559
get pushback from crew people You're like, oh, that's the
525
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.680
guy who did Clerks. Did you ever get any any ship,
526
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:15.680
any any like crap out of that.
527
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:16.640
I don't think so.
528
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:20.160
I don't remember any If it was, it was behind
529
00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:21.599
my back and I didn't hear it out.
530
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.119
So I'm sure that all this guy, this fucking guy.
531
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.880
Shot clips, this guy, this guy shot Clerks.
532
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:30.720
Jesus a funny movie.
533
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:32.880
But did you see that did you see that garage
534
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.559
band of the fucking of a Well, you know, and
535
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:38.279
you know, you.
536
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.079
Know the story. The reason is black and white is
537
00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:43.240
because we couldn't afford to balance the lights.
538
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:47.039
You know, you're gonna be shooting shooting fluorescent, and you know,
539
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.920
we had a little tungsten kit and it was going
540
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:51.799
to be mixed all over the place, and we didn't
541
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.759
have the money to either gel the fluorescence or or
542
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:58.039
even get like an hm My package or a proper
543
00:24:58.119 --> 00:24:59.400
Kino package or any of that stuff.
544
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.240
So wish out black and white, which is what gave it.
545
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:06.200
I think that garage band aesthetic, which I love and
546
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.519
it's great now now I can sit back and watch
547
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.039
it and just adore that movie.
548
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.680
But for a long time it was it was rough.
549
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.160
Yeah, And that's the thing it is. I mean, you
550
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.079
look at the movie now and it's just so, it's so.
551
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.880
It's it's beautiful, man, it's wonderful. It's so. It is
552
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:24.200
that garage band is that raw, unfiltered just in all
553
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.720
aspects from the writing, to the acting, to the to
554
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.640
the cinematography that is directing all of it. And it's
555
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.359
you know, but at the time, I understand your point.
556
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.759
If you look Robert Robert Rodriguez had the same issues
557
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.160
with El Mariachi. He's like, no one was supposed to
558
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.440
see this, This is just my test film, and you
559
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:43.359
want to release it nationally? Are you crazy? So it's
560
00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:45.559
you know a lot of those movies were like that.
561
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.079
When I talked to Rick about Slacker, you know, it's
562
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:52.640
the same thing. And Ed Burns with Brothers McMullen, like
563
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.359
all these guys when you guys were coming up during
564
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:59.000
the nineties. You know, it's just such a straight for
565
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:02.279
people who weren't a lot during that time. They won't
566
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.920
under they'll never understand the magic of the nineties in
567
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:08.160
the independent film space. It is a special it's a
568
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:12.440
very special time from I'm gonna say nineteen ninety to
569
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.720
ninety nine that that decade will never happen again. And
570
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.839
it had never happened before. And it was the Sundance decade.
571
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:24.119
We call it kind of a It was a Sundance
572
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:27.359
independent film decade, was where vhs really started to come up.
573
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.039
There was a market for these kind of do you
574
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.240
imagine And I asked this so everybody like, if Clerks
575
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:36.559
came out today, no one would even look at it.
576
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.480
It would be gone. Maybe maybe it could catch some
577
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:41.799
fire because of the writing.
578
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:44.240
Yeah, Kevin, Kevin, that's that's what that movie is.
579
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:45.400
I think it was all right.
580
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000
It is, it's all writing and it could catch on.
581
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.640
But if it came out today, it wouldn't look that way,
582
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.440
you know what I mean, it would you would.
583
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:55.279
Yeah.
584
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:58.000
It's easy enough to go get a camera that gives
585
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:00.559
you a really you know, you're right. Phone, for example,
586
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:03.559
is shooting HD and you know what is it for?
587
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.920
Came down even and it is it is. It's it's
588
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.759
pretty gorgeous and it accepts mixed light, you know, like
589
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:13.400
the Alexa too, mixed light all day long.
590
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:15.480
And it low light and low.
591
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:20.680
Light light flight. And it would have been so easy.
592
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.119
You know what I mean, No changing, no changing in
593
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:26.200
the back, no changing in the bags in the back.
594
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:28.240
None of that. You know.
595
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.400
There's a funny story where we shot the salsa shark scene,
596
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.759
you know, clerks, and we had so little money and
597
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.200
Kevi wasn't happy with it. One night, but we wrapped
598
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.799
and I have my fucking hands in the bag, you know,
599
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:41.599
in the tent, and and.
600
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.200
He's like, let's reshoot that tomorrow. And I'm like, what
601
00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:45.400
do you want me to do with this film?
602
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.920
You know, because he had decided we're going to reshoot it,
603
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:50.240
and we had so little money.
604
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:54.559
It was like, it's like, throw it out. We didn't
605
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:55.119
process it.
606
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.559
We didn't want to spend the money in the process
607
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:58.359
in print because that's only you know, that's what we
608
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.279
were doing back then, and so we drossed it out.
609
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:04.119
Yeah, deleted scenes.
610
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:07.759
She should have kept it. He should have thrown it out.
611
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:09.759
Should have just kept it. And maybe maybe maybe you
612
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.200
did develop it after after Sundance.
613
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.119
But again we were thinking, no one's this.
614
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.279
I was gonna see this. He's gonna so after Clerk's been,
615
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.599
after Clerks, you had this. It was obviously a very
616
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.759
big hit. It was. It was a phenomenal. It was
617
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.960
a phenom situation. And then you got that opportunity to
618
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.039
shoot a studio movie, which was which were small rats,
619
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:35.160
which had a bigger budget, arguably much bigger, bigger movie. Uh,
620
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:39.440
what was it like jumping from the one man crew
621
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:44.400
to running a crew of people who obviously many knew
622
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.839
more than you did, if I'm not mistaken, is that fair?
623
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.920
The pa, the pas, the pas knew more than absolutely.
624
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:54.720
How do you run a show? How do you run
625
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.599
a set like that? Man?
626
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:58.160
Well, I think you've got to have a little bit
627
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.559
of humility. And I was very up front with everybody
628
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:08.480
that I was turned onto and basically hiring. And I said,
629
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:10.680
you know, I remember saying to Andy Graham, who's a
630
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:11.400
really good friend of mine.
631
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:12.000
He's been a friend of.
632
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:13.480
Mine since then, but I met him on that picture
633
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.519
and he was a focus bowler. He since has become
634
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:17.119
an operator and he's operated for me in a lot
635
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.640
of projects, and a lot with Kevin as well. But
636
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.480
I remember telling him that I was green. I said,
637
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.640
I'm green man, and I'm going to fucking lean on you.
638
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.079
And and he said, you know, this happens a lot.
639
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:33.200
You're the first person that's ever said it, and so
640
00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.720
I yeah, so I owned that, you know what I mean? Uh?
641
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.960
And Mick McNeely was the gaffer who had just one
642
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.720
of our producers was Jim Jackson.
643
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:44.039
He had just done Tombstone and Mick McNeel was the
644
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.599
gaffer on that, and so he introduced me to make.
645
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:50.359
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
646
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:55.279
and now back to the show.
647
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.720
I'm like, you did fucking Tombstone with Billy Freight.
648
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.200
Yeah, come on board. And you know I was the
649
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:04.920
same way with him. I said, I'm gonna lean on you, man,
650
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:07.599
because I'm green, and I'm you know, I'm in this position.
651
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:09.920
It's very fortunate. I'm very fortunate to be in this position.
652
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:11.119
But if I really want to learn from you, and
653
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.880
I learned a lot from from Mick, and it was,
654
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:19.279
you know, across the board and every every department, you know.
655
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.680
So I think you got to you always have to
656
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:24.319
surround yourself with with people who know more than you,
657
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.480
but I think you got to be upfront about it too,
658
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.000
you know, and and don't try and hide the fact
659
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.039
that you don't know anything when you don't know anything,
660
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:34.319
because everybody's been there, you know, we've all been there,
661
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:38.200
and it's it's one of the things that that a
662
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:40.559
lot of people try to hide and and it comes
663
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:42.799
out in really ugly ways.
664
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:45.640
Oh yeah, the ego and they start snapping up people
665
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.720
because if you see people doing that, you could see
666
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:51.759
that they're insecure. Insecure people are the insecure people are
667
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.319
the loud ones. The white ones are generally not the
668
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:57.039
ones you have to worry about. No that in that scenario,
669
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.160
In that scenario, and if there's a bar fight and
670
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.759
there's a quiet guy stretching in the corner. That's the guy.
671
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.200
You got, a quiet guy, the guy you gotta worry about,
672
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:06.440
not the guy.
673
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.359
Swinging and not the guy that's that's that's you know,
674
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:11.279
I'll talk.
675
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.799
Yeah, it's the quiet guy. But when it comes to
676
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.119
but being on set, like there's a quiet there's a
677
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.359
quiet uh a, when you know you don't need to
678
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:24.839
show in that way, like I don't have to be blustering,
679
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:26.160
like I know how to do this and I had
680
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.400
If you say, if you're that dude, you obviously have
681
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:31.319
no idea what you're doing. You're extremely insecure, and I'm
682
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:34.920
sure you've worked with directors like that, especially in God.
683
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.200
I don't think we need to get into that yet,
684
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:40.400
but yeah, it's like you know Alex Towncil, the showrunner
685
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.599
of Homeland, He's he's in any room he's.
686
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.559
In, he's the smartest guy, smartest person in the room.
687
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.799
He's also one of the most mild mannered and soft spoken,
688
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.160
and so you know when he's very thoughtful and he's
689
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:54.440
he'll talk about a scene when we're prepping and or
690
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:55.359
rehearsing a scene.
691
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.839
And he's very quiet, and like everybody leans in to
692
00:31:57.960 --> 00:31:59.519
listen to what he's saying, you know what I mean,
693
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:03.440
he never feels he never feels the need to be loud,
694
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:06.559
And this is you know what I think. And that's
695
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:07.079
sort of thing.
696
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.440
And you know I run into that, you know, you
697
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.359
run into that all over the place. And like composition,
698
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.759
we're going with Dave Filoni and Jeff have Avreaud and
699
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:17.519
the the same way. You know, they never feel the
700
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:19.599
need to be the loud voice in the room. It's
701
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.519
the quiet voice in the room that everybody listens.
702
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:23.000
To, you know.
703
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:25.359
Yeah, And when you're working at that level, man, with
704
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.319
that kind of caliber of people, you know, they've done
705
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.519
so much, each of them in their own right that
706
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:33.920
you know, and I'm sure you've you've you've had the
707
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.880
pleasure of working with some amazing directors and collaborators over
708
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:40.039
the years. You know, you start seeing when people know
709
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.400
what they're doing, they just they just are, you know,
710
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.839
they just do. They don't talk about it, they're just
711
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.200
very quiet, very like why didn't we move over here?
712
00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:50.839
Well?
713
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:51.039
Yeah?
714
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:53.119
And also also I think at this level, as you know,
715
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.799
there's a there's an amount of preparation that's gone into everything.
716
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:00.480
And and I've done this enough times that I know
717
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.279
that I got it. I have to be prepared. I
718
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:03.720
have to be I have to be ready.
719
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.039
And whether that means knowing all the shots that were
720
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.720
going to do or just understanding how we want a
721
00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:14.319
light to set to tell the story, you know, you
722
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:15.319
just have to be I have to be.
723
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.519
Prepared now after mal Rats, which you said, you know,
724
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:21.599
and I actually one of the five people who saw
725
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:25.240
it in the theater. I actually saw in the.
726
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:26.200
Theater, So who are the other three?
727
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:30.519
I guess I know it was Kevin Scott. I actually
728
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:32.319
saw it in the theater while I was in college,
729
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.720
and I actually got it was it was a special screening,
730
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:39.000
and I got the mall Rats. Got the book at
731
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.559
the theater. They were handing them out at the theater.
732
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:44.240
I never forgot this the original book. I had it
733
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.200
and and I saw Mallrats. I loved it. I thought
734
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:48.680
it was genius. When I saw it, I was like,
735
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:51.359
this is the greatest thing I've seen since Slicespread. This
736
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:54.279
is amazing. And then it died on the vine. It
737
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:56.839
didn't find an audience at the time, so Kevin was
738
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.559
pretty much putting in director jail at that point. Correct
739
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:01.559
He was like, oh, it was once it was a
740
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:02.519
fluke kind of thing.
741
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:07.839
Well, you know, he had the script for Chasing Amy,
742
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:12.920
and I think what happened is is, you know, we
743
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:17.000
went to Universal for this this project, and Harvey always
744
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:18.440
wanted to work with Kevin. He knew what he had
745
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.440
it Kevin, and and so Kevin had the script Chasing Amy,
746
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.119
and he took it to Harvey and he had a
747
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:28.280
meeting without without Scott Moser, which may have been a
748
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.840
little bit of a mistake because Kevin agreed in that
749
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.880
meeting to do it for a price, you know, without
750
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:40.360
any script changes, and and and so when he goes
751
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:42.199
back and meets with Moser, he's like, hey, I got
752
00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.480
our money. Most you're thinking, you know, a couple of
753
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.000
three million, four million, whatever. He's like, great, what did
754
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.639
you get turn fifty grand?
755
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:51.679
And coming in what.
756
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.320
And so we ended up making that movie for a
757
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:58.239
turn of fifty grand, which is, you know, kind of
758
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.039
it was a bummer the time. You know, we all
759
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:04.960
wanted to make movies for more money, which which means
760
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.719
more time, you know, that's what it means. It means
761
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.519
you can actually take the time that you want to
762
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:11.360
devote to each and those scenes or more.
763
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.840
Time anyway, you never have enough time.
764
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:15.719
Nobody ever has enough time, even on the biggest things
765
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:16.079
I've done.
766
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.119
That seems like we're always scrambling. You know.
767
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:22.159
It's crazy. Even if I'm assuming on a Marvel set,
768
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:24.039
they're scrambling still. I've heard I've actually talked to some
769
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:26.039
people who worked on those hundred million, hundred fifty million
770
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.039
dollars budgets and they're like, yeah, we stole this shot.
771
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.360
I'm like, you stole a shot.
772
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:33.760
What you guys were shooting for one hundred and thirty days?
773
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:35.280
Why do you have to steal this shot?
774
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:38.480
No, I think it was Chronworth Jeff Cromworth on the
775
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.320
show some network. He's like, yeah, I stole this shot
776
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:41.880
and this shot and I mean David, Like it was
777
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:44.840
just me, David and like another guy. I'm like, because
778
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.559
they needed a shot at Harvard and they couldn't get it,
779
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:47.239
so they stole it.
780
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:51.360
Oh that's right. I remember. I remember eating about that and.
781
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:57.480
I was like, what, that's amazing. You can't forget your roots, man,
782
00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.880
you can't forget that that hustle man. You no matter
783
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:01.639
how big you get him in the oscars, you win.
784
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.039
It's true. But anyway, so we ended up. You know,
785
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.280
we made that that for two and fifty grand and
786
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:10.960
then what I already mentioned what.
787
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.840
Happened at Sundance, and I think that was ninety six,
788
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:18.119
and I pushed out for ten years. I went and hustled,
789
00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:21.480
and at the same time, you know, Harvey didn't let
790
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.000
Kevin use the same cineatographer twice.
791
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:28.519
You know, Bobby Omen shot Dogman. Bobby Oman is an excellent.
792
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:31.920
Cinematographer, and Harvey said no for the next movie. So
793
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.119
then they did Kevin did jayde Sound Up straight Back,
794
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.840
and it was Jamie Anderson. Jamie Anderson, another great cinematographer,
795
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:40.960
and Harvey didn't like the way that looked either, and
796
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.000
so on Jersey Girl gives him no more. Segment ends
797
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:46.920
up really not liking the way that looks either. So
798
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:48.960
Kevin finally said, well, maybe it's not the DP, maybe
799
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.639
it's the director that you're unhappy with. And so after that,
800
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:56.719
Kevin was basically like, give me my guy back. And
801
00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:59.599
so he and I got got back together for Clerks too.
802
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.400
So we've we've been apart for ten years, nine and
803
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:06.440
a half, ten years, and so we were bringing ten
804
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:10.000
years of experience of working with other people together to
805
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.840
an existing friendship and it was the greatest reunion I've ever.
806
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:14.599
Had, you know.
807
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.159
And then we went on to do another four or
808
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.000
five pictures. We did you know after Clerks too, We
809
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.679
did Zac and Mary Make a Porno, and we did you.
810
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.239
Know, cop Out and Red State.
811
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:28.920
We ended up doing a pilot or two and it
812
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:32.639
was just it was wonderful because it was bringing ten
813
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:35.800
years of experience and and just just getting back together
814
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.960
and we we had a language from before, but we
815
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.239
had a new way of telling stories from all this
816
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:46.199
experience and that coming together, I think created some of
817
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.880
the best work that we've done culmination, which was was
818
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:50.480
Red State.
819
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:55.559
I think it's our finest hour, you know together. I
820
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:56.679
love that movie. I love it.
821
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.800
I love it so much. A lot oflood, sweat and tears.
822
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:02.800
That was us getting back to our roots. And you know,
823
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:06.559
I was the Kevin and I actually wrote a letter
824
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:09.440
to Stephen Poster, who was the president of the Union
825
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.800
at the time, to allow me to operate, you know,
826
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:15.079
because that the Union would have to allow this to happen,
827
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.360
and you know, it's got to be a creative choice.
828
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:18.719
It can't be budgetary.
829
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:20.719
And it was absolutely creative, you know, we were trying
830
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.679
to get back to where we'd started. And you know,
831
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.920
Steven understood that Stephen has worked with Kevin actually and
832
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:30.880
you know, likes Kevilina, and so they agreed to it.
833
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:32.760
The union agreed to it. So I actually operated the
834
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:38.840
camera and we were literally we were, you know, back
835
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.000
to where we've begun. And it was a much bigger project.
836
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.599
It was four million dollars, but you know, four million
837
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:48.280
dollars as it goes far in two thousand and eight
838
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.440
or whatever it was two thousand and nine, ten, as
839
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.559
as it did back in the nineties.
840
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.599
No question.
841
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:57.199
And listen, man, after all the years that you were
842
00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.280
doing you've been doing this, is there anything you wish
843
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.760
someone would have told you at the beginning of the
844
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.199
career of your career besides beware of these sides, get
845
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.920
out be besides get out and be aware of the
846
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:10.719
morally repugnant Harvey Wentzon.
847
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.800
You know, I think, and it's probably one of the
848
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:16.639
hardest things that I've had to learn, is that there's
849
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.320
there's and there's an elegance in simplicity, you know what
850
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.400
I mean, Because when you're when you're starting.
851
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:25.800
Out, or when I was starting out, anyway, I can't
852
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:26.599
speak for other people.
853
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:28.519
But when I was starting out, you know, I was,
854
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:30.840
I was really trying to light a scene to tell
855
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:32.840
the story, and I was I think it was a
856
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.679
lot of it was was forced, you know, and it
857
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:36.639
was just too much.
858
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:39.320
And it took me a while to sit back.
859
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.920
And you know, when you're lighting a scene, you're always
860
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:44.840
going to look for the light to turn off because
861
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.000
there's always at least one there's always at least one
862
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:50.480
that is unnecessary and you don't need it, and it's
863
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:53.000
not telling the story. It's just you know, you're you're
864
00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:55.360
showing off or you're being you know, you're being cute
865
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:55.920
or something.
866
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.960
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
867
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.880
and now back to the show.
868
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:09.440
But you know, I wish that that's the lesson that
869
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:11.079
took the longest to learn. I wish somebody would have
870
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.840
told me that that just just fucking relax.
871
00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:18.440
And there is there's a real elegance, elegance in simplicity,
872
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:23.679
and I think, you know, it's hard to describe.
873
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:26.400
It's hard for me to describe what is simple or
874
00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:27.599
elegant in lighting.
875
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:31.400
Because I don't I can't tell you why I have
876
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.079
seen a certain way, it all comes from the gut.
877
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:35.760
And that's another piece of advice I wish I would
878
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.920
have learned that, you know, just just follow your gut,
879
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:40.800
follow your instinct, and and don't second guess yourself. And
880
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.320
even if it's gonna even if you're wrong, just fucking
881
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:45.440
do it. And you're going to learn from your mistakes.
882
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:49.039
You know, if you are wrong, you'll learn from it.
883
00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:51.679
Can you can you?
884
00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:56.519
Can you talk about the the happy accidents because as
885
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:59.360
as cinematographers men and even their directors, we all want
886
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:02.639
to control everything at all times, which is insane. It
887
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:05.119
never happens ever. Yeah, but there are these little things
888
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:08.159
you're like, how did that that was perfect? How did
889
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:11.159
that light just hit the eye just right? The flare
890
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.000
hit at the right moment. Can you talk a little
891
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:14.480
bit about that?
892
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:15.280
Absolutely?
893
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.599
I mean some of the some of the coolest things
894
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:22.400
that I've learned have been complete and total accidents.
895
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:26.079
You know, and when when you're when you're on a set,
896
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:26.760
you'll keep you.
897
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:28.119
Have to keep your eyes on it for these things
898
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.039
because you know, electrician will be moving a light and
899
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.639
it'll be on and you know, because it's to day
900
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:35.599
your mind, it's not going to free strike, and so
901
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:37.280
they want to keep it on while it's moving, and
902
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:42.199
you'll it'll hit something that was completely unintentional and it
903
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:44.320
comes over here, and you know, it just reflecting off
904
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.480
of that sitting the set and you're like, fucking stop.
905
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.880
Just freeze where you are, that's what we want.
906
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:50.719
And then the grips are like, oh great, now we
907
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:52.599
got to contend the rest of it, you know what
908
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:53.079
I mean.
909
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:54.000
So spill off.
910
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:57.599
Yeah, turn those lights off when your mood.
911
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:59.239
Don't let them see the lights on your moon around,
912
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.960
you know, turn them off. But you always have to
913
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:03.559
be open for that.
914
00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:05.519
And even in you know, in life, you're you're out
915
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:07.920
at a restaurant, you're you know, you're at a bar,
916
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:11.119
you're at the movie theater, whatever it is, pay attention
917
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:14.360
to your surroundings because there's there's always you know, I
918
00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:18.079
learned so much about lighting from being in far too
919
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:20.679
many bars in New York in the mid nineties, you
920
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:23.360
know what I mean. They were all dark and and
921
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:26.239
a lot of them were die bars, and and you
922
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.480
would just see the way that that these dimly lit
923
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:32.239
bars had really cool things going on, you know, and
924
00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:34.440
always you always have to be open for that and
925
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:39.400
keep your eyes open for it, because you can learn
926
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.039
just as much sitting in a CD dive bar in
927
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:43.960
New York as you can't be on a film set
928
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:45.079
when it comes to lighting.
929
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:51.079
Now, there's trust me. I've I've been in some time
930
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:55.920
fars No, Uh, you knows. As a cinematographer, there's always
931
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.800
a day on set where the entire world feels like
932
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:02.800
it's crashing down around you. It could have been on clerks,
933
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:05.840
that could have been on Mandalorian Are those Is there
934
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.320
a day that sticks out in your head that you
935
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:12.639
felt like I shouldn't be here this whole I'm going
936
00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:14.719
to get fired, this whole thing's not going to work.
937
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:17.719
And what did you do to kind of go through
938
00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:19.159
that and get through that obstacle.
939
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:22.440
I don't know if there's a day or a handful
940
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:26.599
of days in particular, Alex, but all that it happens
941
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.239
all the time. It happens all the time, and you
942
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:30.280
just have to push through.
943
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:30.679
You know.
944
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:33.920
There are so many times when it feels like the
945
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.079
set's falling apart and your behind schedule and you're not
946
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.000
going to make your day and you're you're not getting
947
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:40.360
the shots the way you want, But you just have
948
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.320
to push through. You know, you have to always have
949
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:48.159
to push through because it it feels.
950
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:49.039
Like that a lot.
951
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.480
You know, I had there was a point I was
952
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.679
going for and I missed it. Ask me something else, man,
953
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:55.760
I'll come back to that.
954
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:58.440
Well. I mean, as I've been I've been blessed to
955
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.920
talk to so many amazing people on this show. I've
956
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:06.920
realized that everybody, from the Oscar winner to the first
957
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:11.360
time filmmaker all suffered from imposter syndrome, every single one
958
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:14.199
of them. Even to this day. You know, I'm talking
959
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.280
to some Oscar winning screenwriter. He's like, yeah, I don't
960
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:18.239
even know if this next script. I'm like, you just
961
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.280
won the Oscar. What's wrong with you? Like you just are,
962
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:24.360
Like you're considered one of the best writers ever, Like
963
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:27.800
why are you? Yeah? I just I just do. And
964
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:32.280
I think I came to realize that everybody deals with it,
965
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:34.559
and I think it's something that kind of keeps you sharp.
966
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:37.519
I'm assuming that you have the same issues as far
967
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:38.920
as imposter syndrome on.
968
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.840
SAT always and yeah, yeah, you have to be I mean,
969
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:45.880
you have to be your most You're a Fiercis critic,
970
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:47.360
you have to be your biggest fan. You have to
971
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:49.519
be your biggest supporter. You have to be you know,
972
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:56.039
your most most critical. I against yourself, I think, because
973
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:58.280
nobody knows what anybody else thinks.
974
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.320
All you have is yourself.
975
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:03.639
So and you have to rely on all the people
976
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:06.679
around you. Let me sound pretentious for a second. Quote
977
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:10.519
was it Orson Wells said that, you know, a painter
978
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:12.639
needs a paint pressure, a writer needs a pen, and
979
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.320
a filmmaker needs an army, you know, And it's true.
980
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:18.719
And no, no cinematographer, no director, no filmmaker is an island.
981
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.280
We can't. You can't do this alone, you know what
982
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:21.559
I mean.
983
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:28.440
You have to have this this support, this support system
984
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:32.639
that is is you know, it's the most it is
985
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.639
the most complicated and sophisticated recording device non demand, you know.
986
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:41.119
And a lot of times, you know, a lot of
987
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:43.199
times it is like being deployed.
988
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:44.800
You know, I did Homeland.
989
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:47.960
For for six years and we were either for seven months,
990
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:50.360
either out of the state or out of the country,
991
00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:55.039
sometimes both within the season, and it is like a deployment,
992
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:55.519
you know.
993
00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:59.440
I it's it's I can't I can't equate it to
994
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.079
to going to war. I can't compare it to going
995
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:01.280
to war.
996
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.159
I've never been to war, but in my life's experience,
997
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.239
it is like a deployment, and you know, you're just
998
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:11.880
in the trenches for seven months, eight months, you know,
999
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:17.079
and it's non stop and it's hard to remember sometimes
1000
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:21.719
to get out of the way, you know, because if
1001
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:25.159
somebody looks at something that and this is probably paraphrasing,
1002
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:28.000
I think deacons, but if somebody looks at something that
1003
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:31.840
I've shot, it's just wow, that's a great looking episode.
1004
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:33.559
You know, that's a great looking show, that's a great
1005
00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:36.800
looking movie. Without talking about the story, then I've failed,
1006
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.559
you know. I think it is our It is right
1007
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:44.559
my job as a storyteller to be almost invisible, and
1008
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:46.079
it should be.
1009
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.280
We should be the silence between the notes, you know.
1010
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.039
And and if somebody looks at something that I've shot, well,
1011
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:56.400
you know that was that was a great story, you know,
1012
00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:58.760
then that's a success for everybody, for all of us.
1013
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:01.920
But if they sing out the cinematography, the lighting, the
1014
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:04.320
camera work, then then I don't I don't think we
1015
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:06.360
were We weren't serving the story at that point.
1016
00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:10.199
Very true. A lot of a lot of times, especially
1017
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:12.000
I don't know about you, but when I started out,
1018
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:14.599
I wanted the coolest shots and the story was the
1019
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:16.760
like I was like, I want to do that Scarsese
1020
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:18.719
shot and good feelings. I want to do that shot
1021
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:20.280
that Kubrick did. I want to do that shot that
1022
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.559
Spielbrick did, Like we all we all do it. But
1023
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:25.960
as you get older, you start realizing, like, what's the story, Yeah,
1024
00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:28.360
what's the story? Because before it was a it was
1025
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.440
a lot harder to do those shots. It was super
1026
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:32.920
hard to do a lot of those shots back in
1027
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:35.519
the eighties, seventies, eighties, nineties. To do some of those
1028
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:39.239
insane shots that those masters did was difficult. Where now
1029
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.159
the technology has gotten to a place where you know,
1030
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:46.119
you could with the Ronan you can run around instead
1031
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:48.800
of getting a full giant steady camop and you can
1032
00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:52.280
you can you could do some insane shots running in,
1033
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.159
jumping through, going through like there's things that you can do.
1034
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:59.639
Absolutely, it's not the cool stuff anymore, it's not.
1035
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:02.480
And but but there's there's still there's.
1036
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:05.239
Still always the next level. There's still somewhere to take it,
1037
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.639
you know, but it has to sort the story. I
1038
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.320
worked a lot during Manda Mandalorian season two. I worked
1039
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:13.679
a lot with Sam Hardgrave. He was the main seging director,
1040
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.400
and then he went on to do you know, extraction
1041
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:18.840
and some of the stuff that that he was doing
1042
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:21.840
and did an extraction is absolutely insane, and it.
1043
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.519
Was a perfect blend of It was a perfect.
1044
00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:28.559
Blend of his background being a stuntman and becoming a
1045
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:33.519
second year director and then a director and combining that
1046
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.480
with all the new technology of the day. You know,
1047
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:38.760
there's that scene you look at the behind the scenes
1048
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:42.320
stuff where he's basically riding on a four wheeler on
1049
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.679
ATV of some sort and he's actually directing and operating
1050
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:49.119
the camera and somebody you know, chasing a car basically
1051
00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:53.079
going forward and then reverse and and then somebody detaches
1052
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:56.079
him and he runs up and shoves the camera through
1053
00:48:56.119 --> 00:48:58.960
the window, and then there was this takeover of some sort.
1054
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.079
They did a CG usual effect blend, you know, going
1055
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:04.440
into the car and then they're all all of a
1056
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.440
sudden in the car. In another shot they blended together
1057
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.760
and the car drives away, and so it's this It
1058
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:13.800
was beautiful choreography and and it was it was like,
1059
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:19.440
you know, watching a ballet dancer, except you know, it's
1060
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:20.679
more punk rock than that.
1061
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:23.679
Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean there's always a place
1062
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:25.559
to take. I mean, look at that shot that Spielberg
1063
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:28.440
did in War the World inside the car with the
1064
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:32.000
cameras just rotating around the car while the you know,
1065
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.119
the aliens are attacking and things are exploding, and you're
1066
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.440
just like when you know, when you and I sit
1067
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:42.119
there going how the hell did they do that? Then
1068
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:44.719
they've done, They've gone to another place because we.
1069
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:47.360
You know, children driving shot children.
1070
00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:50.960
Men, Jesus. I mean you're just like, how did he
1071
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:54.960
do that? So it's it's it's it's pretty remarkable. Man.
1072
00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:58.639
Now I have to ask you about Mandalorian brother. We'll
1073
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:04.639
be right back after a wh from our sponsor. And
1074
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:10.519
now back to the show. Like you worked on season one, Oh,
1075
00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:12.000
you didn't work on season one, you worked on the
1076
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:12.679
season season.
1077
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.599
I came into season two as the second year serment,
1078
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:23.119
second uar cinematographer to Bazwin and uh Matt Jensen, and
1079
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:24.800
so I was doing singing, you know, and Matt Jensen
1080
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:27.639
got a little overloaded with prep work, and so he
1081
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.320
turned episode six over to me.
1082
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:31.239
And that's you know, when I met Robert.
1083
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:36.679
And I had I had gotten here, I'd gotten here
1084
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:41.920
from an introduction to Fabreau through Leslie Lincoln Glattter who
1085
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:45.000
was my nam Prus and Gretron Homeland, and then you know,
1086
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:47.960
Matt Jensen also brought me up, and so that's how
1087
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.400
I kind of came to be here. After season two,
1088
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.079
you know, Matt and Baz were going off to do
1089
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:57.400
their own things. They weren't coming back for their own reasons,
1090
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:00.639
and so I got, I guess promoted do the main
1091
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:02.599
cinema from the book of Bobo set.
1092
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:05.719
So so when you're I have to ask you some
1093
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:08.440
technical stuff, Man, how the hell do you light in
1094
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:11.000
the volume? Because I know I have a couple of
1095
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.159
buddies of mine who are VFX people working who work
1096
00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:17.440
the Mandalorian season one, and he was telling me that
1097
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:19.920
He's like, yeah, they shoot a lot, but there's still
1098
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:21.360
a lot of cleanup work that we need to do
1099
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.599
with some of the edges and and uh and increases
1100
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:27.360
and things like that that it's not all in camera,
1101
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:29.599
but it's a lot better than where it's not a
1102
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:32.119
green screen either, So there's a kind of happy medium.
1103
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:35.079
But how do you light that? You know, I'm assuming
1104
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.519
there's not an h GM I off, like, how do
1105
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:38.679
you do that how do you light it?
1106
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.239
You know, it's it's that's a hard question to answer.
1107
00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:44.159
It's it's kind of like asking how do you light?
1108
00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:46.719
How do you light anything? You know what I mean,
1109
00:51:46.760 --> 00:51:49.400
it's it's got its own it's a it's a it's
1110
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.239
a process.
1111
00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:53.400
I'm gonna just tell you it's it's It's fucking hard, dude.
1112
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:54.159
It's hard.
1113
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:54.760
It is.
1114
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:55.599
It's weird.
1115
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:57.719
There's nothing easy about it.
1116
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.320
I think I had a I had a lucky innerduction
1117
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:02.760
to it in that you know, I was doing just
1118
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:06.519
a few days here and there during season two, and
1119
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.039
so I was getting to know it, and I was
1120
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.800
able to watch Bass and Matt do their thing in
1121
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:11.880
the volume, and so I had a slowan introduction to
1122
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:15.679
the volume in season two and then rolled right into
1123
00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:20.519
Boba Fet shortly after that and was thrown in the
1124
00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:24.039
deep end. You know, where there's a there's a long prep.
1125
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:26.599
There was a long prep to Boba Fet. I think
1126
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:30.440
I was on for about five months before shooting started.
1127
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:33.360
And it has a lot to do with lighting the
1128
00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:37.480
content that's going on the volume walls, you know, and
1129
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:42.920
so essentially you're in the unreal engine, You're in a
1130
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.880
VR session and you're lighting the content the way you
1131
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.639
would want to light it practically, you know, And that's
1132
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:53.159
that's one thing that is always a sticking point of Fabreau,
1133
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:56.079
because the tendency for a cinematographer when you get into
1134
00:52:56.440 --> 00:52:59.119
a VR environment and a virtual lighting environment is to
1135
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.400
do whatever the fuck you want, you know, because you
1136
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.320
can do just about anything, but you also have to
1137
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:07.679
match that in the practical set that's going to be
1138
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:10.599
inside the volume. And and one of Faver's things is like,
1139
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:14.159
don't light it, however you could in a virtual environment
1140
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:17.679
light at how you would in reality or else it's
1141
00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:19.239
going to start to look like a video game. It's
1142
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:21.599
going to you know, it's yeah, you can put a
1143
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:24.320
source the size of the sun out there and do this.
1144
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:26.480
But could you do that if you were lighting this
1145
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:30.280
virtual environment practically, No, you could, you know, you'd have
1146
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.679
you'd have hmis and whatever you're going to use. And
1147
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:36.519
that's also what you're going to use on the practical set,
1148
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:41.360
So you know, it starts with lighting the virtual environment
1149
00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:47.159
and and knowing how to bridge the gap between the
1150
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:49.480
virtual and the practical because.
1151
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:53.880
You could actually move light sources within the volume itself,
1152
00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:57.639
that meaning the the VR aspect of the unreal engine.
1153
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:01.000
You could put a light somewhere in the virtual space
1154
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:04.000
that lights through the LEDs on and there is an
1155
00:54:04.039 --> 00:54:05.440
aspect to that, correct.
1156
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:07.760
There is there is you're not going to get. You're
1157
00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:10.000
not gonna get directionality, You're not gonna get hard light.
1158
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:11.719
You know, you're gonna get a lot of soft light.
1159
00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:13.559
You're gonna get all the interactive soft light that you
1160
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:18.360
get from the environment. But any any direct hard light
1161
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.880
you're gonna have to do practically. And so when you're
1162
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:27.559
doing it in the virtual environment ahead of time, you know,
1163
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:29.480
you have to know that I'm not gonna be able
1164
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:31.920
to do this entire wash of sunlight in here. I'm
1165
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.199
only going to be able to do this, you know,
1166
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.960
these spots and these broken up bits of sunlight. So
1167
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:41.000
that's what I should do in the virtual and then
1168
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:43.760
I'll do that also in the in the practical you know,
1169
00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:47.519
with HMI s OR, we've also gone into tungsten now
1170
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.280
with some of the loads started doing that on Bobafet
1171
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:54.159
didn't didn't know if it was possible or not, and
1172
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:55.920
I've been told that it was not possible to go
1173
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:58.360
to tungsten in the volume. But then I was talking
1174
00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:01.760
to everybody from from State Trapped and Island and they said,
1175
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:02.880
we can absolutely.
1176
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:04.000
Go to Tuxton. I don't know who told you that,
1177
00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:06.800
and I, to be honest, I remember he told it
1178
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:07.480
to me either.
1179
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:11.400
But once we started using Cleston lighting there, it I
1180
00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:15.679
think it made everything feel a little more real because
1181
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:18.000
it's just it's a full spectrum, you know, light source,
1182
00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:20.400
and it just kind of fills in all the blanks
1183
00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:24.760
of the wavelengths, you know, and it just it just
1184
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:26.880
made it all feel a little more real for me.
1185
00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:29.400
A lighting of it when I was talking to Dean
1186
00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:31.840
Condy because he was on the show and he was
1187
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:33.840
right before he was heading out to Bulba. I think
1188
00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:35.800
he shout he did did you shoot Boba? Or do
1189
00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:37.400
you shoot those all the men? Look, he did shoot
1190
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.760
some episodes of Boba. He was telling me that he
1191
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:43.719
was lighting outside the volume as well, getting some light
1192
00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:45.760
spillt it's something like that, or am I mistaken?
1193
00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:47.039
No, You're not mistaken.
1194
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:51.159
One thing that we haven't, you know, we haven't been
1195
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:52.599
able to do, and I don't know that it'll ever
1196
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:55.360
be possible is to do a broad you know sunlight
1197
00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:59.280
source or you know, open moonlight even any anytime you
1198
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.679
want to just just fill the volume with light, if
1199
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:03.880
that's what the scene requires, you need to take it
1200
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:07.400
outside because first of all, there's not a room.
1201
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:09.920
It seems like it's a big space, but it gets
1202
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:11.360
it gets very small, very quickly.
1203
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.280
And if you did wash it with with you know,
1204
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:17.519
giant hmis or big tongs to sources, the light's just
1205
00:56:17.559 --> 00:56:20.159
going to bounce all over the led walls and render
1206
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:20.800
them uselessly.
1207
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:24.679
So anytime we need open sunlight, anytime we.
1208
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:27.559
Need you know, say the desert at night where it's
1209
00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:29.239
supposed to be a moon source, we'll go on the
1210
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:33.880
back line. But if we need pockets, if we need
1211
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:37.000
you know, a skylight here and there shooting some sunlight,
1212
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.719
and then we have some some parts of the ceiling
1213
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.480
that we can take out, big sections of the ceiling
1214
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:45.519
that we take out. There's still there's a lot of
1215
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:47.480
ringing up, there are a lot of hard works work around,
1216
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:49.039
and so there's.
1217
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:52.119
Still not a lot of space to get lights.
1218
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:53.840
You know, away from where they need to be so
1219
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:56.039
you can have good shoutows. And so we end up
1220
00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:58.920
you know, using mirrors a lot. So we'll have an opening,
1221
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:02.960
you know, opening in the ceiling that might be five
1222
00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:05.679
by ten, five x twelve something like that. Then we'll
1223
00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:07.559
have a big mirror up above, and then we'll have
1224
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:10.920
n each of my Thompson for now whatever it is,
1225
00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:14.000
you know, another fifteen twenty feet away, so that there's
1226
00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:16.840
a good amount of distance from the light and whatever
1227
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:21.719
is cutting it, which is usually a gobo hanging beneath
1228
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.519
the opening in the ceiling, so that we're trying to
1229
00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:26.760
get it as far away from the light as possible
1230
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:29.360
so that we have good shadows, you know, and there's
1231
00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:33.440
there's just so much hardware to work around that it's difficult,
1232
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:36.880
but we we kind of cracked it a little bit
1233
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:39.280
and are getting better at it we as we learn more,
1234
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:42.960
which you know, we're learning something every day that we're
1235
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:43.360
in there.
1236
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:47.199
Right, it seems like from season one to season two
1237
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.280
to Boba and now hopefully I can't wait to see
1238
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:54.039
season three, it seems that things are you can just
1239
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:57.320
sense things are getting a little bit more real in
1240
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:59.280
the way it's shot. It just looks like the end
1241
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:03.840
sequence of you know, the famous Luke Skywalker see in
1242
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:07.800
the season two like that's it's a master work. Honestly,
1243
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:11.960
that whole episode's a master work. It's absolutely it's a
1244
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:15.119
absolute master work. I've watched the end sequence a thousand
1245
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:19.559
times because I'm a geek, and and I got to
1246
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:23.079
ask you seriously, man, you're you're you're your similar vintage
1247
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:26.400
as me as far as age is concerned. So you
1248
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:28.320
got to geek out every once in a while, dude,
1249
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:31.119
Like you're like, you got to geek out everyone, Oh
1250
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:31.599
for sure?
1251
00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:35.800
And no, I'm turned into a twelve thirteen, fourteen year
1252
00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:41.440
old very often, offset you know. I mean, yeah, throw
1253
00:58:41.559 --> 00:58:43.800
ten Stormtroopers in front of a camera and I'm twelve
1254
00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:45.159
years old again, you know what I mean.
1255
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:49.320
It's yeah, a lightsaber, a lightsaber pops up. You're just like,
1256
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:50.760
I'll forget it. I'm out, I can't.
1257
00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:55.320
You know. It goes back to me blowing the hell
1258
00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:57.800
out of that little that little special edition boat with
1259
00:58:57.840 --> 00:58:59.400
fat And you know I.
1260
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:01.639
Had all that. I had all the toys.
1261
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:03.119
I have some of them, some of them in my
1262
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:06.559
office right now, little daby clients Star Wars toys.
1263
00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:08.239
That's amazing.
1264
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:09.119
Uh.
1265
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:12.239
But so you on Boba, you got to shoot with Robert.
1266
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:16.079
You shot for Robert Rodriguez, who is known very well
1267
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:18.119
known for being his own DP. So what was it
1268
00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:22.159
like shooting for Robert because Roberts not used to working
1269
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:24.000
with other dps generally speaking.
1270
00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:30.239
I'll be honest, he he largely left me alone, you know.
1271
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:34.719
He I think he enjoys not having all the responsibility,
1272
00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:40.800
you know, because he's still you know, he's still he
1273
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:44.559
still edits everything. And even when we were prepping he
1274
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:48.519
we were prepping remotely because it was the beginning of
1275
00:59:48.559 --> 00:59:50.880
the pandemic, and so he was in Austin with his kids,
1276
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.960
and he was shooting basically animatics.
1277
00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:56.400
Or stunt viz with his kids and with some of
1278
00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:59.159
his old you know, Star Wars toys from when he
1279
00:59:59.320 --> 00:59:59.679
was a kid.
1280
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:03.760
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
1281
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:08.639
and now back to the show.
1282
01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:13.559
So he's still very hands on. But when it came
1283
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:17.280
to the the you know, how are we gonna like this?
1284
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:18.159
How are we gonna like this set?
1285
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:20.280
He had ideas that we would talk about when we
1286
01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:22.559
were prepping and when we were lighting some of the
1287
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:25.639
virtual environments, but for the most part he left me alone.
1288
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:28.639
He would, you know, like most directors, he'll tell me
1289
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:33.519
if he doesn't like something. But it wasn't like he
1290
01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:36.360
was pointing me in a specific direction for lighting. You know,
1291
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:39.400
we he let me alone, let me do my own things.
1292
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:41.679
He trusted, he trusted that you knew what you were doing.
1293
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:44.679
Yeah, I guess so. I don't know if that's true,
1294
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:47.000
but he might think of it.
1295
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:49.199
So no, I saw. I thought it was in one
1296
01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:52.320
of the behind the scenes that Dave Faloney was like,
1297
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:55.079
you seeing the atomatic that you're talking about, and he's like,
1298
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:57.280
can you stop? Can you stop it right second? Did
1299
01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:01.800
you just shoot an atomatic which worst toys in your backyard?
1300
01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:02.320
Yeah?
1301
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:04.880
He goes, yes, yes I did, and he's like, that
1302
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:07.039
is the coolest thing I've ever seen in my time.
1303
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:10.400
I think that was the moment that the Book of Boba.
1304
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:12.360
He's like, wait a minute, let's bring Robert into the
1305
01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:16.119
Book of Boba, and let's bring him into this because
1306
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:19.480
this is this is insane. And did you do with
1307
01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:22.320
the season two Boba episode or No, I did that?
1308
01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:24.679
That's that was episode six, that's the that's the one
1309
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:25.719
that I did with Robert.
1310
01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:29.840
Oh my god, dude, you gotta I mean, okay, let's
1311
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:31.280
stop for a second. Geek out for a second. When
1312
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:35.119
you saw Boba show up for the first time on set?
1313
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:38.199
What I mean you guys have to be five year
1314
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:39.039
old at that point.
1315
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:43.280
Absolutely, we are that that was a tough shoot though,
1316
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:46.119
and you know it was I can't say it was
1317
01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:48.519
anti climactic, but we had shot a lot of the
1318
01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:51.719
scenes with Boba Fett, you know, on stage and.
1319
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:55.559
On the volume prior to the you know, when he
1320
01:01:55.639 --> 01:01:57.519
first introduce the introduction.
1321
01:01:57.679 --> 01:01:59.679
Yeah, and the introduction was was done out and seeing
1322
01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:02.920
me out because it had you know, we just needed
1323
01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.440
the travel. That scene needed the travel that you can't
1324
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.400
get in the volume, and it also needed that that
1325
01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:12.400
open sunlight, and and so it it forced us to
1326
01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:15.079
go out to Seaming Valley and might be one of
1327
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.559
the reasons I got that episode because maybe Bas and
1328
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:18.280
Matt didn't.
1329
01:02:18.079 --> 01:02:20.320
Didn't want to go out there. You know, it was
1330
01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:23.480
it was not an easy shoot. It was it was rough.
1331
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:25.239
It was rough. It was five or six days out
1332
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:28.199
there in Seeming Valley. It was a lot of fun.
1333
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:31.119
But and like I said, I can't say it's anti climactic,
1334
01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:35.960
but we had already been introduced, and so you know,
1335
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:38.880
I can't say that we were out there just to
1336
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:42.480
get it done, but there was a certain aspect of
1337
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:44.360
we got to get this done because we had a
1338
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:46.960
finite amount of time. And you know what's funny is
1339
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:49.280
we only had six stormtroopers out there.
1340
01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:54.519
Really, yes, so you did an alien style where they
1341
01:02:54.559 --> 01:02:55.599
only had six aliens.
1342
01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:58.840
Either that or I mean there are a lot of
1343
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:05.360
complete CG VFX stormtroopers. Wow, really if if you you know,
1344
01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:08.280
and they're really good, they are really good. It's because
1345
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:10.599
I think it's you know, it's obviously much easier in
1346
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:13.159
VFX to do a stormtrooper.
1347
01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:17.119
Than than hurt and face, you know. And there's there's
1348
01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:17.880
one that.
1349
01:03:18.679 --> 01:03:20.719
I'll point out, and it's the last one to jump
1350
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:23.679
on the transport when the transports are taking off that
1351
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:25.039
you can kind of tell.
1352
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:27.199
I remember it. I remember remember that one, right, I
1353
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:27.920
remember that one?
1354
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:32.400
Yeah, yeah, so that's the one that that And I
1355
01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:35.159
think it was only because I knew, you know, going
1356
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:37.639
in that that that was CG and that that only
1357
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:40.119
a portion of the rest of them that were jumping
1358
01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:43.280
on the ramp were actual troopers.
1359
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:48.039
You know, it's pretty that episode. Oh, it was so
1360
01:03:48.199 --> 01:03:50.360
much fun that when I saw that episode. When I
1361
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.519
saw that episode, I was just blown away by how
1362
01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:55.000
how cool it was. And you could tell it was
1363
01:03:55.039 --> 01:03:56.920
the first time they were off the volume right in
1364
01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:57.599
the whole series.
1365
01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:00.760
Well, not no, not exactly, because there's a lot of
1366
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.599
backlot work. There's there's a lot of backlot work, and
1367
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:05.840
that location, correct.
1368
01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:07.400
That was the first locate. That's what it was.
1369
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:09.440
It was the first location, the first location. You're right
1370
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:09.800
about that.
1371
01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:11.440
And in.
1372
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:15.039
Boba FET we had a lot of a lot of
1373
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:19.320
backlot and we had one location which was Huntington Gardens
1374
01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:21.639
we went to for a few days, two days for
1375
01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:25.880
the for episode six, which was on the Band Before Us,
1376
01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:28.440
you know, the the Luke Sawarker episode of FET.
1377
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:32.360
I thought that looked familiar, like I was watching them, like,
1378
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:36.159
damn it, man, that looks like hunting you know, we did.
1379
01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:39.519
We did three versions of Bamboo Forest in that episode.
1380
01:04:39.559 --> 01:04:41.519
One was backlot, one was on the volume, and one
1381
01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:45.039
was huntingon and going back to, you know, being the
1382
01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:47.320
silence in between the notes. Some of the Band Before
1383
01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:50.440
Us that we did on the volume was some of
1384
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:52.559
the that that might have been the hardest volumelood that
1385
01:04:52.599 --> 01:04:55.599
we did in the entire season for for many different reasons.
1386
01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:58.639
But I think it blends in pretty well. And the
1387
01:04:58.760 --> 01:04:59.760
fact that that.
1388
01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:03.719
You know, the transition from back lot to volume to
1389
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:07.960
Huntington is seamless. I didn't is one is one of
1390
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:11.280
the things that makes it successful. But it's also, like
1391
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:13.079
I was saying earlier, it's getting out of the way,
1392
01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:18.000
and it's it's making making that transition, you know, invisible,
1393
01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:25.239
and and and just just having a sort of elegance
1394
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:26.039
and simplicity.
1395
01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:30.760
Well, man, congrats on all the amazing work you're doing,
1396
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:35.360
uh with John and Dave up there in northern California.
1397
01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:37.079
You guys are doing some good work with the Mandalorian.
1398
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:39.679
We're all super excited to see the new season coming
1399
01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:42.199
out this year. And I didn't you just finish it's production.
1400
01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:44.360
It's not done, though, I can't talk about it.
1401
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:45.760
I'm sorry.
1402
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:48.159
I thought it was. I thought I read it somewhere. Brother,
1403
01:05:48.480 --> 01:05:50.039
I'm not trying to get you anything, no, no words
1404
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:51.559
or words, don't care. I thought I read that.
1405
01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:56.000
I've recently, I've recently finished another a season of a
1406
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:59.239
Disney plus streaming chef.
1407
01:05:59.599 --> 01:05:59.800
Yeah.
1408
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.440
Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough, fair enough now? But no, seriously, man,
1409
01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:07.320
congratulations on all the hard work you've done and now
1410
01:06:07.400 --> 01:06:10.519
knowing your backstory a bit more than I did before. Man,
1411
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:13.320
I respect it even that much more. Because I didn't
1412
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.760
know about the ten years in the wilderness that you
1413
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:17.159
had to go through, like you were.
1414
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:21.159
You were out there as Yeah, then years.
1415
01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:23.639
In the wilderness trying to trying to kind of carve
1416
01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:25.559
you a way and climb your way back out of
1417
01:06:27.639 --> 01:06:31.920
the situation that they're repugnantly more the morally repugnant Harvey
1418
01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:35.119
and uh and those circumstances kind of hurt you on
1419
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:38.559
the way up. So kudos to you man for keeping
1420
01:06:38.599 --> 01:06:40.920
up there. And hopefully this is a lesson for lessons
1421
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:44.679
for people listening that like you gotta custle, doesn't matter
1422
01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:47.639
where you start, what happens, it happened. You know, things
1423
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:50.920
happen that can slow your progression down in the seat,
1424
01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:53.000
and then you have to ask yourself, how bad do
1425
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:53.440
you want it?
1426
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:59.119
Yeah, that's the question, you know, saying earlier about you know,
1427
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:03.599
advice to the young and up and coming.
1428
01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:06.079
You know, my father was an North Peak surgeon.
1429
01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:08.800
He would not let me be a doctor because he
1430
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:10.679
was a doctor and his father was a doctor.
1431
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:12.480
My grandfa was a doctor, and.
1432
01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:16.400
They were never home, and so I chose a profession
1433
01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:19.599
with hours worse than a fucking surgeon, you know what
1434
01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:19.920
I mean?
1435
01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:21.119
So you really got it.
1436
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:24.920
You really got to think long and hard about if
1437
01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:27.719
you want to be in this business, because it takes
1438
01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:28.639
a toll, you know.
1439
01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:33.719
And I've got a marriage that was destroyed. I have
1440
01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:35.519
a fourteen year old daughter.
1441
01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:39.880
Who as she was growing up, you know, from from
1442
01:07:40.119 --> 01:07:42.400
six to eleven or five to eleven, I was doing
1443
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:45.920
Homeland and I was gone seven months a year. And
1444
01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:48.840
so I turn around and she's twelve, you know what
1445
01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:51.280
I mean, And I'm like, where'd all that time go?
1446
01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:54.199
I missed all that time. So you got to think
1447
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:55.000
long and hard about it.
1448
01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:57.760
Yeah, it's it's something that they don't tell you in
1449
01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:00.320
film school now and tell you that a lot of
1450
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:04.519
especially for dps, even more so than directors, dp's are
1451
01:08:04.599 --> 01:08:07.360
always working. You know, they're you know, they're not getting
1452
01:08:07.400 --> 01:08:10.800
the fat you know checks a lot of times. So
1453
01:08:10.920 --> 01:08:12.840
they have to keep hustling. They got to keep working,
1454
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.639
They got to keep going. And that's time, man, and
1455
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:17.560
that does break up. I know a lot of them. Know,
1456
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:21.000
a lot of dpeas with marriages don't make it. They
1457
01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:24.920
it's it's it's it's tough. So you really got to
1458
01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:27.199
love what you're doing. You really really got to love
1459
01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:27.600
what you're doing.
1460
01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:32.159
I remember being uh at a festival, Hatch Festival in Bozeman, Montana,
1461
01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:34.560
and they would always have a couple of cinematographers there.
1462
01:08:34.760 --> 01:08:36.279
One one year I was there as one of the
1463
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:39.560
cinematoraphers and Haskell Wexler was the other. Oh, and so
1464
01:08:39.760 --> 01:08:43.359
we were speaking to a group of university students and
1465
01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:45.319
we were talking about the hours, and you know, he
1466
01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:48.800
was he was still promoting Who Needs Sleep, the documentary
1467
01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:51.880
that he made about the working hours in the business,
1468
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:55.239
and and we were talking about the hours, and one
1469
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:57.520
of the one of the students, you know, asked the question.
1470
01:08:57.359 --> 01:08:58.680
How how do you, guys make it work?
1471
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:00.880
You know, how how do you how do you have
1472
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:03.960
a life, live a life and work these hours? And
1473
01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:08.800
Haskell just goes, I'm on marriage number three, guys. You
1474
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:10.279
know it sometimes it doesn't.
1475
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:15.279
Damnah. That's a drop the mic moment right there. That's
1476
01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:18.000
what kind of is That's that's just raw and truthful
1477
01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:20.880
as as it gets. That's so awesome, man, that is
1478
01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:23.239
so awesome. Now, I didn't I know you wanted to
1479
01:09:23.399 --> 01:09:26.199
address the accidental shooting that happened on the set of
1480
01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:28.319
Rust with your Friends. Can you can you discuss that
1481
01:09:28.359 --> 01:09:28.760
a little bit.
1482
01:09:29.560 --> 01:09:33.239
You know, I've known uh Helena for for a short
1483
01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:36.079
amount of time, you know, about a year. She was
1484
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:37.760
a wonderful person, she was I thought she was a
1485
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:42.880
great cinematopher. I'd introduced her to some some members of
1486
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:44.640
camera department that we're actually working with.
1487
01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:48.880
Her on rust. And I'll be honest, Alex. I you know,
1488
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:50.319
when we were first getting into.
1489
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:51.960
This, it was so raw, and I had a lot
1490
01:09:52.039 --> 01:09:56.079
of emotional opinions about it, and I don't remember exactly
1491
01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:56.479
what I.
1492
01:09:58.000 --> 01:09:59.359
Wanted to say specifically.
1493
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:03.960
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
1494
01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:08.840
and now back to the show.
1495
01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:12.359
But I'm not you know, I did see a letter
1496
01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:13.680
that was going around at the signed by a lot
1497
01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:18.079
of cinematographers about no no actual weapons ever again, you know,
1498
01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:19.720
no real firearms on self.
1499
01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:21.920
Lets do it all of the effects. And I'm not
1500
01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:22.399
that guy.
1501
01:10:23.039 --> 01:10:26.399
You know, I've probably photographed two million rounds, you know,
1502
01:10:26.640 --> 01:10:28.560
obviously blanks in in.
1503
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:30.600
My day.
1504
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:34.399
And she was you know, she was a friend of mine,
1505
01:10:34.399 --> 01:10:36.319
not a like I said, not a long time friend,
1506
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:38.439
but she was a friend of mine. And it's a
1507
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:43.520
it's a horrible strategy what happened, But I think what
1508
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:45.600
needs to happen is there just needs to be a
1509
01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:49.520
safety officer. You know, there needs to be a position
1510
01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:53.520
created that that oversees all safety because you can't you
1511
01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:56.920
can't put that on the ads. You know, you can't
1512
01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:59.880
put that solely on the armor. You know, there has
1513
01:11:00.119 --> 01:11:04.960
to be a checks and balances and there needs to
1514
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.079
be a new position I think created that is that
1515
01:11:07.239 --> 01:11:07.720
is safety.
1516
01:11:07.760 --> 01:11:11.560
And we've seen it for the last two years during
1517
01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:12.159
the pandemic.
1518
01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:15.479
We have safety officers that have been going around, you know,
1519
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:17.760
and for the first year of it, it was put
1520
01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:19.760
your face shield down, keep your mask and put your
1521
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:20.439
face shield down.
1522
01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:23.840
And now it's now it's just masks. But still there
1523
01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:26.720
there have there has been an entire department created.
1524
01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:31.399
So I think there should be a safety officer, you know,
1525
01:11:31.439 --> 01:11:33.840
there should be that that at least that one position
1526
01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:35.359
that is in charge of.
1527
01:11:37.239 --> 01:11:41.319
The thing the things that we all think the long
1528
01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:45.520
squarely on the shoulders of the ads. You know, you
1529
01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:46.439
can't you can't.
1530
01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:49.039
Put it on them because that it's it's just not right.
1531
01:11:50.119 --> 01:11:51.560
I think I think we need a new position that
1532
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:52.720
that oversees all this time.
1533
01:11:53.479 --> 01:11:57.600
I'd agree with you on that because you know, you know,
1534
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:00.239
working with ads all my career, man it so they
1535
01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:02.680
could they can handle a lot, man, they handle a
1536
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:07.720
lot on their shoulders, and they should be one layer
1537
01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:10.600
of protection. But it shouldn't stop with them, so that
1538
01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:12.800
the AD should still have some sort of say and
1539
01:12:12.880 --> 01:12:15.640
what's going on and let everybody know. And you know,
1540
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:17.880
while I'm shooting on set that they stopped said, Hey,
1541
01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:22.800
we've got a live, live arm on set. Everyone be aware,
1542
01:12:23.319 --> 01:12:23.720
this is it.
1543
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:24.359
This is that.
1544
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:27.359
I get that part. And the armor should definitely also
1545
01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:30.079
have an uh you know, have some sort of another
1546
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:33.680
layer of protection. But there should be the last stop
1547
01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:37.439
gap someone who just finally goes, let me see the gun,
1548
01:12:37.760 --> 01:12:40.319
let me check it, make sure everything's good, all right,
1549
01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:43.439
and go forward. You know, I've I've done both. I've
1550
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.600
worked with live rounds and I've worked with VFX or
1551
01:12:45.640 --> 01:12:49.319
you know, the airstoft guns, and you know, it's it.
1552
01:12:50.319 --> 01:12:52.159
Can it be done? Yeah, But.
1553
01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:55.199
Here's the problem I have with it, Alex.
1554
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:57.640
You know, even even a quarterload blank or a half
1555
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:00.880
load blank, an actor doesn't react to the way they
1556
01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:03.399
act react to a full blank.
1557
01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:05.479
You know, I don't even I don't like half loads.
1558
01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:07.039
I don't like cortloads.
1559
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:10.039
I like full low blanks because that's that gives them
1560
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:13.920
the correct reaction from the gun for them to.
1561
01:13:14.239 --> 01:13:17.880
Respond to, you know. And that's that's exactly, and that's
1562
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:19.119
that's my main thing.
1563
01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:21.319
And like I said, you know, I hate them when
1564
01:13:21.319 --> 01:13:22.840
people say, oh, I've been in this business for this
1565
01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:23.560
amount of time.
1566
01:13:24.039 --> 01:13:26.000
They usually lose me when they say that. But I
1567
01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:31.680
have photographed a lot a lot of blanks, of rounds
1568
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:35.760
of blanks, and never had an issue, never had a problem.
1569
01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:38.960
Well, I mean listen, and I got called by a
1570
01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:41.760
variety in Hollywood for you know, quotes and trying to
1571
01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:43.640
you know, asking my opinion on what was going on,
1572
01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:46.039
and I said, listen, guys, And they got this from
1573
01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:49.640
a few other industry vets who said, how many stutment
1574
01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:52.079
have been hurt in the course of the last hundred
1575
01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:55.720
years on a set? Do we now do away with
1576
01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:59.439
all stunts and do everything virtually? No, they're safety. There
1577
01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:01.880
was mistake, you know what happened in the plylight zone.
1578
01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:05.760
You know, that horrible, that horrible accident that happened there.
1579
01:14:06.319 --> 01:14:08.319
And there's so many other you know, you list, you know,
1580
01:14:08.399 --> 01:14:11.840
accidents that happened in the stunt department. Things happen sometimes,
1581
01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:16.279
but there has to You can't just wash everything away
1582
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:17.600
like you can't.
1583
01:14:17.720 --> 01:14:20.520
And I'm sorry to interrupt you. I'd be willing to
1584
01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:23.760
bet I'd be willing to bet that that condor.
1585
01:14:23.479 --> 01:14:26.479
Lighting cranes have hurt more people in the last ten
1586
01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:27.760
years than stunts have.
1587
01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:31.000
You know what I mean? Agreed, we have so many
1588
01:14:31.319 --> 01:14:32.439
new there are so many.
1589
01:14:32.359 --> 01:14:39.199
New you know, new safety rules and regulations regarding condors
1590
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:40.560
all the time. You know.
1591
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:43.359
I remember back in the day when they didn't need
1592
01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:43.840
a horns.
1593
01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:50.079
I remember you remember, Oh remember you remember that the cranes.
1594
01:14:50.119 --> 01:14:52.199
How about the cranes when you're sitting there, I mean
1595
01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:54.680
those long cranes with the camera at the top and
1596
01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:57.039
you see the pictures. And I got up on one
1597
01:14:57.079 --> 01:14:59.279
of those cranes once. I'm like, where's my seatbelt? Are you?
1598
01:14:59.359 --> 01:15:01.319
Are you? No, I'm not doing this. I'll do this
1599
01:15:01.399 --> 01:15:03.159
from the bottom. I'm not going to do this. It's
1600
01:15:03.199 --> 01:15:03.720
it's insane.
1601
01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:06.199
Well, you know, going back to the nineties, as we
1602
01:15:06.359 --> 01:15:08.399
used a lot of those cranes that you know, the Chapman,
1603
01:15:08.439 --> 01:15:11.720
the Titans, the Nikes, all the stuff, because they were
1604
01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:14.760
so much cheaper. When the remote heads were new, you know,
1605
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:17.920
remote heads were coming out of the late eighties early nineties,
1606
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:20.560
and and so they're very expensive. So we rode those
1607
01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:23.159
crains all the time. And there usually is they're usually
1608
01:15:23.199 --> 01:15:24.920
our seatbelts but.
1609
01:15:25.239 --> 01:15:28.880
Just feel cheaper. But you are, you're up there, you know,
1610
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:30.439
you're fifty feet in the air or whatever it is.
1611
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:31.840
You're like, wow, this is this.
1612
01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:34.880
Is you know, it's the most treasuous thing I've probably done,
1613
01:15:35.079 --> 01:15:40.560
aside from you know, being being in stunt cars, you know,
1614
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:42.840
as a as a camera operator, because cars is pretty
1615
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:47.159
wild too, but a lot of that I've been, you know,
1616
01:15:47.199 --> 01:15:50.000
it was more dangerous than any of the any of
1617
01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:52.000
the work with blanks that I've done over the years.
1618
01:15:52.720 --> 01:15:56.199
Wow. Man, Well, I hope that I hope that there
1619
01:15:56.279 --> 01:15:58.439
is some changes made. I think there will be. I
1620
01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:00.640
hope they're not just a knee jerk reaction. I hope
1621
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:03.720
there's a really thoughtful way of moving forward with it, because,
1622
01:16:04.399 --> 01:16:05.880
like I agree with you one hundred percent, I think
1623
01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:08.439
there has to be some sort of position created to
1624
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:11.520
help this, to help this in there, because obviously there's
1625
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:15.600
a problem, especially with so many low budget, non union
1626
01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:18.319
you know situations which I've been involved with a lot
1627
01:16:18.359 --> 01:16:22.119
in my in my day, I get that, and it's
1628
01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.119
a while it's a little wild wild West, no pun
1629
01:16:24.199 --> 01:16:26.399
intended because I was a questern, but it's a little
1630
01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:29.560
bit wile wild West in the sense that, oh, yeah, yeah,
1631
01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:31.239
we'll do this, it's gonna cost too much, We're not
1632
01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:33.079
going to do that, and that there has to be
1633
01:16:33.319 --> 01:16:35.399
some sort of rules has to answer.
1634
01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:38.159
There has to be an account of you know, account accountability,
1635
01:16:38.359 --> 01:16:41.479
and I think the way to do it is to assign.
1636
01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:46.279
A person to you know, overall safety agree as we've
1637
01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:47.319
been during the pandemic.
1638
01:16:47.560 --> 01:16:51.239
You know, our our COVID safety officers will will give
1639
01:16:51.319 --> 01:16:53.840
us speech, you know, to us about mask wearing and
1640
01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:57.359
social distancing and all that stuff. So it's it's easily done.
1641
01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:00.680
You know, that position is easily created. And I look,
1642
01:17:00.720 --> 01:17:04.119
I know everything comes with a price tag, but there's
1643
01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:06.319
no price tag as big as the one.
1644
01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:07.039
You know.
1645
01:17:08.439 --> 01:17:10.680
There's what Helena s meant, you know what I mean?
1646
01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:14.520
Amen, brother, Amen, I appreciate it. I appreciate you will
1647
01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:16.239
be willing to talk about that and bringing that out
1648
01:17:16.239 --> 01:17:18.600
to light. H Now, I'm going to ask a few
1649
01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:21.199
questions ask all my guests. Bro. Yeah, what advice would
1650
01:17:21.239 --> 01:17:25.399
you give a young cinematographer or filmmaker trying to break
1651
01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:27.079
into this vicious business.
1652
01:17:28.359 --> 01:17:29.159
Don't fucking do it?
1653
01:17:32.800 --> 01:17:33.560
Run away.
1654
01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:38.960
An actual and actuality, you know, I would say, take.
1655
01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:44.239
A long, hard look at this industry and and really
1656
01:17:44.760 --> 01:17:46.800
think long and hard about whether you want to.
1657
01:17:48.520 --> 01:17:50.039
Commit this much of.
1658
01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:54.239
Your life to to this because it'll take every every
1659
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:57.560
minute that you give it. This industry will take every minute, every.
1660
01:17:57.439 --> 01:17:58.159
Hour that you give it.
1661
01:17:58.239 --> 01:18:00.640
And then some so think long and hard about it.
1662
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:04.079
And because none of them will listen to that piece
1663
01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:08.239
of advice, I will then say, you know, you got
1664
01:18:08.359 --> 01:18:09.119
to get out there and work.
1665
01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:09.720
You have to learn.
1666
01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:13.399
As I said before, everybody on a film set, everybody
1667
01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:15.720
in life knows something that you don't, so learn from them,
1668
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:16.119
you know.
1669
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:19.920
And when you're new in the.
1670
01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:22.760
Business, you have to just get on set every in
1671
01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:25.600
any and every way that you can't, because you'll learn
1672
01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:28.079
more in a day on set, you know, being that
1673
01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:31.119
fly on the wall, then you will in the year
1674
01:18:31.239 --> 01:18:34.720
of film school. You know, at least in terms of
1675
01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:41.520
the day to day, hands on practical way of telling stories,
1676
01:18:41.800 --> 01:18:43.199
you know, And that's what it all comes down to.
1677
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:47.479
Absolutely, No I learned more doing my internship at Universal
1678
01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:50.800
Studios Florida than I did in going to going to
1679
01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:53.880
my college. I would skip school just to go and
1680
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:57.199
hang out on stages and just watch the grips going
1681
01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:00.439
go on time, go that cable, and I'm like, all right,
1682
01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:04.159
all right, this is so cool. You mean that big
1683
01:19:04.239 --> 01:19:10.560
pile over there that's been sitting there since nineteen seventy Sure, okay, sure,
1684
01:19:11.439 --> 01:19:13.039
Now what is the lesson that took you the longest
1685
01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:15.560
to learn, whether in the film business or in life.
1686
01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:20.880
You know, I think, and we touched on it earlier,
1687
01:19:21.279 --> 01:19:23.880
is I think the longest lesson it took me to
1688
01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:26.039
learn is that is to get out of the way,
1689
01:19:26.920 --> 01:19:29.399
you know, and that there is an elegance in simplicity,
1690
01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:35.760
and you know, don't don't light things.
1691
01:19:35.640 --> 01:19:36.000
Just to light.
1692
01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:38.159
You got to serve the story. You have to be
1693
01:19:38.239 --> 01:19:41.119
telling the story or all the experience and all the
1694
01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:44.039
knowledge that you have is irrelevant, you know. And and
1695
01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:47.159
all the slick lighting that you can do is irrelevant,
1696
01:19:47.840 --> 01:19:51.159
you know, unless you're serving the story. If you want
1697
01:19:51.199 --> 01:19:53.479
to be you know, if you want to shoot just
1698
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:57.960
just slick images, then do commercials absolutely, you know, because
1699
01:19:58.000 --> 01:19:58.840
that's what they're all about.
1700
01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:02.880
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
1701
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:07.760
And now back to the show.
1702
01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:13.039
And and that in and of itself is telling a
1703
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:15.199
story as well. It's telling you a story of how
1704
01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:19.359
to buy bud light or whatever it is. And so
1705
01:20:19.439 --> 01:20:21.880
it has to be flashy and in your face and
1706
01:20:22.239 --> 01:20:27.359
and you know, high key and whatever else is. But
1707
01:20:27.640 --> 01:20:30.840
but just just tell the story and otherwise get out
1708
01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:33.239
of the way, you know, be the silence in between
1709
01:20:33.279 --> 01:20:33.680
the notes.
1710
01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:38.279
And three of your favorite films all the time.
1711
01:20:39.520 --> 01:20:44.039
Oh, that's a tough one. I gotta say, Blade Runner.
1712
01:20:44.119 --> 01:20:45.920
That's that's one of the films that got me in
1713
01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:51.039
this into this business, in this industry. And not only
1714
01:20:51.399 --> 01:20:54.119
do I think it's a great movie, but it it
1715
01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:59.840
looks amazing and its look is relentless, relentlessly devoted to
1716
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:02.199
its story, you know what I mean.
1717
01:21:02.319 --> 01:21:05.239
It's it's creating that world of what was at twenty
1718
01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:06.840
nineteen Los.
1719
01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:09.800
Angeles, not too far off, not too far off.
1720
01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:12.880
We're playing cars out, I'm playing cars.
1721
01:21:13.439 --> 01:21:16.039
I'm still waiting for the Jets and man.
1722
01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:22.800
But it is relentlessly devoted to its story. The look
1723
01:21:22.840 --> 01:21:23.159
of it it is.
1724
01:21:24.199 --> 01:21:27.439
After that, I don't kind of target three favorite movies
1725
01:21:28.359 --> 01:21:31.960
there are so many. Number two, I'd say everything that
1726
01:21:32.039 --> 01:21:37.960
Conrad holl Ever shot, you know, everything and just about anything.
1727
01:21:38.359 --> 01:21:43.039
You know, I've been devoted to studying his his work
1728
01:21:43.079 --> 01:21:44.600
for a long time and still.
1729
01:21:44.520 --> 01:21:48.520
He did Bobby Fishing, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, god yeah.
1730
01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:54.319
And it's again talk about somebody who was relentlessly devoted
1731
01:21:54.319 --> 01:21:55.159
to telling the story.
1732
01:21:55.800 --> 01:21:56.000
You know.
1733
01:21:56.159 --> 01:21:58.199
It's some of the things that he did with his
1734
01:21:58.359 --> 01:22:01.079
lightning are still blow my mind. And I don't know
1735
01:22:01.159 --> 01:22:03.000
how he did it or where he came, where the
1736
01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:05.399
idea came from. And I don't know that he knew either.
1737
01:22:05.479 --> 01:22:08.800
It seems like he was somebody that that didn't shoot
1738
01:22:08.840 --> 01:22:12.520
from the hip, but you know, it all came from
1739
01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:14.239
from the gut, from the heart.
1740
01:22:14.600 --> 01:22:16.840
You know, he was channeling, he was channeling somebody.
1741
01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:20.319
So he was channeling something, that's for sure. That's for sure.
1742
01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:23.159
And you know that takes up my next two answers,
1743
01:22:23.159 --> 01:22:27.520
I think, Okay, otherwise it's just so hard. So I mean,
1744
01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:27.800
when you.
1745
01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.960
Choose something like Citizen Kane, you choose something you know,
1746
01:22:31.399 --> 01:22:34.199
like like nineteen seventeen, even you.
1747
01:22:34.239 --> 01:22:37.159
Know, there's there's too many, there's too many, but that's
1748
01:22:37.399 --> 01:22:39.039
you know, that's a that's a good that's a good,
1749
01:22:39.239 --> 01:22:42.079
a good start. And can you tell us what you're.
1750
01:22:41.960 --> 01:22:49.399
Up to next. I'm prepping a new Disney Plus series
1751
01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:56.239
yet to be announced, Plus announce serious.
1752
01:22:56.239 --> 01:23:00.760
Okay, fair enough, fair enough? All right? So so it's
1753
01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:02.359
gonna be the jar Jar series. I know, I know
1754
01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:04.199
what it is. It's a jar Jar series. You could
1755
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:05.880
just say you don't even have to admit it and
1756
01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:06.960
know it's the Chargear series.
1757
01:23:07.079 --> 01:23:07.760
Not can admit it.
1758
01:23:11.279 --> 01:23:14.479
Brother man. It has been an absolute honor and privileged
1759
01:23:14.479 --> 01:23:16.000
talking to MF and it has been so much fun.
1760
01:23:16.039 --> 01:23:17.760
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us
1761
01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.000
in the Tribe today and continued success bro that you're
1762
01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:22.159
an inspiration out there for us.
1763
01:23:22.199 --> 01:23:24.079
Man, So thank you, Thank you, Alex, thanks for having me.
1764
01:23:24.199 --> 01:23:24.720
I appreciate it.
1765
01:23:25.960 --> 01:23:27.920
I want to thank David so much for coming on
1766
01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:31.119
the show and sharing his journey and dropping his knowledge
1767
01:23:31.199 --> 01:23:33.479
bombs on the Tribe today. Thank you so much, David.
1768
01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:35.000
If you want to get links to anything we spoke
1769
01:23:35.039 --> 01:23:37.000
about in this episode, head over to the show notes
1770
01:23:37.039 --> 01:23:40.760
at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot TV Forward Slash three ninety two.
1771
01:23:40.920 --> 01:23:43.279
Thank you so much for listening, guys. As always, keep
1772
01:23:43.359 --> 01:23:45.840
on writing, No matter what, I'll talk to you soon.
1773
01:23:46.359 --> 01:23:50.279
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
1774
01:23:50.359 --> 01:23:51.680
Screenwriting dot tv.