BPS 289: How I Built a Blockbuster Career Off of an Indie Film with Craig Brewer

WEBVTT
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You are listening to the IFH podcast
Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast
network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof
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Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number two eighty
nine. I've been trying to squeeze a
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dollar out of a dim and I
even got a cent. DJ Hustle and
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Flow broadcasting from a dark, windowless
room in Hollywood when we really should be
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working on that next draft. It's
the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the
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craft and business of screenwriting while teaching
you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
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And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of
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the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am
your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Now,
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today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script
Coverage. Now. Unlike other script
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coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually
focuses on the kind of project you are
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in the goals of the project you
are, so we actually break it down
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by three categories micro budget, indie
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no reason to get coverage from a
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to cover my screenplay dot com.
Well, guys, Today on the show
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we have writer director extraordinaire Craig Brewer, and Craig is the director and creator
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of the film's Hustle and Flow,
Blacksnake, Moan, Dolomite is my Name,
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Footloose, the Remake, and Coming
to America, to just to name
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a few. Craig has been in
the trenches hustling for many, many years.
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I've loved his work ever since.
I was at the same Sun Dance
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that he was at with Hustle and
Flow, where I met Terrence Howard for
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five seconds before he blew up,
and for the whole movie blew Up.
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And the story is about how Hustle
and Flow got to get made, what
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happened with John Singleton, the legendary
great Late John Singleton, and so much
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more. Such a great conversation that
Craig and I had. It is frank,
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it is raw, and it is
entertaining, to say the least.
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So without any further ado, please
enjoy my conversation with Craig Brewer. I
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like to welcome to the show,
Craig Brewer Man. How you doing,
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Greig. I'm doing good, doing
good. Thank you so much for coming
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on the show, man, And
I appreciate you having a good mike,
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a beautiful background. I appreciate that, sir. It's all for you.
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It's all for you, now,
you know, I have one of these
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pandemic per just says this Amazon mike
that I'm sure microphone enthusiasts would say is
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not superior. But it worked for
that whole press junket that I had to
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do for coming to America where I
couldn't be in the room with anybody.
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So it's it's it's fine for me. But listen, I've been following you,
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like I was telling you earlier,
and I was following you since Hustle
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and Flow days. I was at
Sundance. I had a five I think
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a ten or fifty second conversation with
Terrence as he was rushing pre screening of
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them, because after they you couldn't
even touch him screening pre screening. I
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caught him on the street and talked
him for a few seconds. Um,
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but yeah, I was there with
that, and I was wild wild.
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Well, well, we'll definitely talk
about But first question to you, my
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friend, is why God screen Earth
did you decide to go into the film
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industry? You know, it's so
funny because, um, so not only
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am I now like I'll be turning
fifty two at the end of this year,
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but my daughter is now fifteen,
and I think that for the and
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and I'm very pleased to say that. You know, it's Friday and she
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holds these um screenings with all her
friends here in my office space, which
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I have like a big it's kind
of like a little mini theater here,
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and she's showing John Carpenter's Halloween,
and I was so proud that. I
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mean, she loves the David Gordon
Greenway, but she I'm so proud that
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she's showing the original to all her
friends who haven't seen it. And it
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made me think back on my when
I was you know, probably about like
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twelve through fourteen. For my generation, was a very unique time, because
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and I was trying to explain this
to my daughter that you know, there
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was a time where you couldn't just
see movies if you wanted to see them.
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There was like four channels, and
you know, maybe on the weekends
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you would get like, you know, some Westerns or something like that.
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But there was this explosion that happened
with my f in the eighties of going
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down to a video store and him
going like, oh my god, Okay,
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you get um, you know,
you get Raiders, Lost Dark,
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but I'm gonna get Bridge on the
River Quai. And so yeah, we'd
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watch Raiders. But then like dad
would watch his movie and I could watch
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it, you know. And so
a lot of my love of movies really
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came from that. Was the equivalent
of me and my dad like throwing the
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ball around. You know. I
wasn't really that still, I'm not athletic
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or anything like that. And uh, but he loved he loved movies,
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He loved talking about movies. He
loves showing movies to me. And I
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think that's where it was. It
was like, at first I wanted to
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be an archaeologist because I saw Raiders
and loved it. Yeah, but then
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I saw the making of Raiders,
which, by the way, it was
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one of the few making of videos
other than Star Wars that was available about
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filmmaking in the video store times.
I mean, because that was rentable.
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It was, if I remember,
was making Raiders of the Lost Ark,
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and then the second part was like
a stunts The stunts of Raiders of the
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Lost art right right and amazing.
And around the same time, you know,
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was the making of Thriller, which
ultimately financed Thriller. Like Thriller was
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one of the biggest music videos of
all time, and the way that the
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label justified it was like, Okay, we'll get in the movie business.
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We'll make this movie called the Making
of Thriller and that that'll offset it.
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And it became a huge kit for
them as well. But it got me
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in the habit as a young person
to go like, okay, well wait
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a minute, there's this guy named
Spielberg and he made Raiders the Lost Dark.
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And then here's this guy George Lucas, who I know is the guy
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at the beginning of Star Wars that
I would watch see up until then,
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I think, especially when I was
younger, with Star Wars like it still
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was that place of fantasy. You
just went into a movie theater and these
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things just appeared. But then with
the making of Raiders, I was like,
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oh, that guy, And then
like the making of Thriller, it
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was like, oh landis this guy. And that was the beginning of like
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truly being like I guess a centophile, where you you begin to say,
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well, who is this filmmaker and
what is their next film? And I
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remember my father and I standing in
line knowing that we were going to see
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Steven Spielberg's new movie called Et like
it was up until then it would have
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just been Et, but to us, we were seeing that guy, Steven
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Spielberg's new movie. And so I
think that because I went into theater and
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I was acting a lot as a
kid and writing a lot movies, was
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the dream. It was that thing. It's like, off, one day,
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I can maybe make make some movies, you know. I mean that
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that I just didn't think that there
would be anything cooler on the planet to
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do, and because I just didn't
have all the means, immediately I started
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just writing theater and writing and directing
plays, which completely completely informed directing movies
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for me, um staging, working
with creative people, but also working with
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people who are probably cranky and different
personalities and trying to get actors comfortable and
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all that kind of stuff. I
think was because of those early days of
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theater. But yeah, where I
tell people all the time, like when
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you're part of that crew, that
that growing family of people who who love
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movies, Um, you know,
we take everybody, you know. That's
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the That's the great thing about about
the movie club, you know, is
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that you can be the popular kid. You can be the you know,
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overweight kid like I was, where
you just wanted to kind of like be
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a part of something, to be
a part of a big conversation. That's
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that's awesome. Yeah, it's it's
it's it's pretty insane. And I worked
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at a video store. So I
which one you mind me asking which one?
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I was a mom and pop and
down in South Florida it was a
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mom and POPU and Blockbuster had I
was working with pre Blockbuster, so Blockbuster
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was just getting up. But I
was there for four years, five years,
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and that's where I got my start. Like I just I would just
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considerably consume movies and play Nintendo.
Consume movies and play Nintendo. That's all
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I did, and it was you
were right. It was a time that
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are for people to understand now that
weren't growing up at that time, But
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you just didn't have access to movies
like well. And I think the thing
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that I worry most about with um
the generation today is, I mean,
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even though there's an argument that not
everything is accessible, but because things are
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so accessible, it's almost blinding.
It's almost like it's two. It's two.
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There's just too many things to see. And but back in the day,
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there wasn't a I mean, yeah, you could, like you you
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had your hbos, you had like
you know, things like that, but
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but really like you had what was
coming out on on VHS. We'll be
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right back after a word from our
sponsor, and now back to the show.
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Like I just some movies like like
Blue Thunder, you know, and
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uh and uh and then you and
then suddenly you'll get one where you just
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go like, oh, this cover
is so great. But then you're watching
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like Roger Corman's Humanoids from the Deep
and I'm watching like a creature explode out
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of it or the external. Well
that was like the big deal. Like
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that that was the equivalent of like
you know, um no excuse me not
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Exterminator. Reanimator was the movie that
almost was like was passed around like porn.
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It was this thing that like,
oh my god, it's so crazy,
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like don't let your parents know that
you're watching this. And well that's
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Faces of Death if you remember that. Oh yeah, well that's like that.
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That was important. That was like
that was like snuff that was like,
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oh my god, I hope God
has watch watch did that get five
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five sequels? Like, well,
it's where we are now. I mean,
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it's just I mean, I mean
Faces of Death is where I mean
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that that's live leak, that's a
that's that's that's basically you know, when
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people are going online and they can
look at something that they probably shouldn't be
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looking at. Uh. That was
the early days of that. That was
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like, oh, I'm gonna watch
that woman get hit by a train,
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you know, and god, it's
crazy stuff, man, is really crazy.
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And I saw it young too,
like it probably wasn't right. It
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really wasn't right for us, But
I think I watched Scarface and then Faces
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of Death. You had a that's
a that's a bang bang like a gut
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punch, and then one to the
face I was like, what fourteen fifteen
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at the time or something like that. Crazy. Yeah, yeah, but
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you know, but it's interesting though
that you're saying that there's so much content
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in the world today, and you
know, when we were coming up,
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you know, the movie star was
the movie star. You know, it
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was it was there was a thing
called the movie star, and it drew
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drove everything, and to a lesser
extent today it still does. But the
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movie stars that are driving things today, our legacy movie stars that have been
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around for twenty five years, like
the Leo's and the brad Pitts and the
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Tom Cruises, you know, and
those kind of but the new generations that
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I don't think that. I think
because there's so much more to watch,
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it's harder for somebody to become a
movie star, even if even in a
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big, giant blockbuster kind of thing, like even the Girl from Wednesday,
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which if Wednesday would have hit in
the eighties, she would be a household
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name, making Julia Roberts money every
time she would walk up. Oh yeah,
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yeah, you know. It's it's
interesting because I have these debates with
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myself about that, like, Okay, are we are we leaving the movie
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star era, but maybe we're just
leaving the movie star era that that that
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I knew where even though I'll still
like, okay, if Tom Cruise,
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I always feel like, if Tom
Cruise is going to put out a movie,
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then I need to go see it. And and I feel like everybody
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should do, because I feel like
there's few people out there that I think
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are still have his work ethic where
he is saying like, Nope, I'm
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making movies for those people that like
actually work for a living and need to
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go out to see a movie theater. They're going out with their kids and
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and and damn it, I'm going
to let them know that I'm working my
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ass up for them. That's kind
of rare that that you have someone who's
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like, yeah, I'm going to
hang off the side of a jumbo.
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Did you just see do you think
he like flew his his his motorcycle up
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in the air. And then and
you see it. You see Chris,
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You see the director, Chris just
sitting there like is he gonna what is
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the shoe? Whe's the shoe popping? I'm telling you, until until you
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are a director, there's even a
there's a moment where you see you know,
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uh, Christopher Quarry, like like
someone is like like holding them after
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they said, because until you have
a stunt, until you do a stunt
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as a director, oh you don't. I mean the terror that you have
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that someone is going to get hurt
or killed is so real. And because
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you're almost with every movie that you're
doing, you're tempting fate for like you're
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inviting bad things to happen. And
then you have someone like Tom Cruse who's
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like, you know, yes he's
a he's a professional, and he's got
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like the best stunt team around and
he's preparing for these things for months.
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But that's just terrifying. And so
I think that when audiences see that,
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they know that, they recognize that, they go, Okay, well,
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thank you for that. But I
think the same could be said. I
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think that what we have now is
you know you have like, yeah,
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you have we are in our We
are undoubtedly in the super hero I mean,
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there will be a tashion book one
day where we are in this era
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of superheroes, like this will be
the book that's like, okay, it
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kind of started here with I would
say that it really started with Superman,
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like the original Christopher Reeve like where
they go, no, we're gonna get
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good actors. We're gonna get like
even Academy Award winning actors to be in
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this. It's like really in the
in the comic book thinging like but they
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but even back then with with with
Richard Donner, like there was this sense
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of like, no, we want
to we want to make like if the
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Godfather too is if the Godfather is
to mafia gangster movies, then we want
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to do a Superman like a comic
book movie in the same way. And
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and really, so you're you're and
I know it's been said, it's like
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spider Man is the star, right
who plays him is going to change,
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but spider Man is the star.
But now I've also found that what also
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is the star and which is kind
of cool on a storytelling, what element
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is the high concept of it is
so so you may not have like huge
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stars and get Out, but everybody
was talking about get Out. It's like
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and I mean, yes, you
have Sandra Bullock, but I mean I
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remember when bird Box hit and like
you're now being hit with everybody going like,
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oh my god, did you see
Birdbox? And it reminded me of
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kind of like you know, just
movies back in the day where you know,
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to be honest with you, Terminator
was this because Terminator came out was
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not like that big of a theatrical
hit. We discovered it on VHS because
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people were like, have you seen
this movie about like people are going back
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in time to kill the mother of
the person's big buscle bound dude, and
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like, yeah, it was the
concept of it that there was no stars
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in it that we were going like, oh my god, I gotta go
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see Michael Mean's new movie. And
it was like, this concept is driving
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it. And I feel that that
we're now here with Megan and in horror.
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You know, I just don't.
I hope that people will still do
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it with comedy and drama as well. But we're in a very unique time
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right now, no question, no
question. So let's get let's go peep
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a little bit into your past or
Um, your first film was Poor and
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Hungry, which, yeah, which, how did you get that? Yeah,
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that little guy made because I was
the first feature, right, that
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was the first first thing you ever
did. It was I still feel it's
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my best. Actually, wow,
that's amazing. Yeah, good stuff,
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sir, thank you. But it's
well and The reason why it's my best
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is because of what it meant to
me. You know, my I had
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moved all my families from Memphis,
but I lived a lot of my life
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in California, and then I moved
back after both my granddads died here in
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Memphis, and I moved into the
house that my dad grew up in,
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and my grandmother was you know,
she had suffered from a stroke, and
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so I was kind of like helping
out with that. But I really wanted
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to make a movie in the South. And what it happened was I just
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really failed a lot. Like I
I did what everybody did in the nine
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es, or what we were encouraged
to do, which was, you know,
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spend your credit cards and make that
movie. And yeah, I'm glad
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I did it, but it's still
I didn't really know what I was doing.
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I was shooting on sixteen millimeter and
it just I didn't even have the
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money to finish it, really,
and so I was really kind of depressed.
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And I was hanging out at this
bar called the PNH Cafe, which
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stood for Poor and Hungry, and
I started writing this movie about car thieves
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and Memphis, and it was a
love story, and I wrote this.
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I wrote it, and I sent
it off to my dad and who was
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always really supportive of me, and
he read it and he just gave me,
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like this break, you know,
hey, get back in there.
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You know, don't be afraid of
not having money. Celebrate the fact that
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you don't have any money, and
just get one of these like nineteen ninety
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seven ninety eight. So he was
like, get one of these like small
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digital cameras, and then and then
edit it yourself on a computer. And
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and I suddenly was inspired, and
I went out and I didn't go to
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film school or anything, but I
did have a Barnes and no. I
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worked to Barnes and Noble, and
I had a discount there, so I
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got all the books I could on
digital filmmaking and um. And then I
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came home and and found out that, you know, my guy from my
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dad's work called and said, your
dad was complaining of chest pains. And
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we rushed from the hospital and he
died of heart attack, very unexpectedly,
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like we didn't know there was he
was. He wasn't really like a you
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know, he was a pretty healthy
guy. So but it rocked me a
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lot. It rocked me that that, uh, he was forty nine,
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and I was, you know,
I was like, you know, in
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my in my I think it was
thirty and I I it just kind of
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rocked me on a on a mortality
level, you know that I always thought
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there was time, you know,
and I got about twenty grand of inherence.
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We'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor, and now back
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to the show. And my mother
told me you should really make you should
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try to make that movie that your
dad was talking to you about. And
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so I went out. I just
had like my brother in law and my
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wife at the time and my sister
in law, and we all lived in
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this teeny little crappy house in Memphis, and we were making this movie with
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everything we had. And I cut
it together all myself on Adobe premiere and
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learned a lot about filmmaking from that
movie. But then then that you know,
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that movie not only opened the door
to Hollywood for me, because it
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played the Hollywood Film Festival and it
won an award. And then I got
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an agent, and the agent asked, well, what do you want to
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do next? And I was like, well, I made a sequel to
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Poor and Hungry called Hustle and Flow, and it was going to be it's
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in the same crime world in Memphis, but it has the same kind of
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heart that was in my first movie. And then Stephanie Elaine, who is
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the producer of Hustle and Flow,
and then John Singleton Um read the script.
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But then they watched Poor and Hungry
and and John was very much like,
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well, this guy's a regional filmmaker. He's from you know, he's
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he's he's doing a movie about Memphis
and in Memphis. And if if this
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movie Poor and Hungry just had money
behind it and stars, you know,
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or or or at least name actors, you know, it could probably you
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know, go somewhere. And so
when you watch Hustle and Flow, it's
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really about me. And I mean
it's a it's it's us making that first
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movie in that crappy house, no
air conditioning, doing everything we can.
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Yeah. Yeah, that's basically what
it is. And from you know,
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because I remember when Hustle and Flow
came out, I was coming out with
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my first film that was going through
the first Civil Circuit and doing all of
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that stuff as well. It was
two thousand and five, and I mean
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when Hustle and Flow hit because I
was at that sundance and in the insanity,
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I mean, this is sundance,
oh oh five is a very different
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sundance than twenty twenty three. Like
it's right, it's it had more power.
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Back then. The market was different. There was still DVD sales,
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There was all sorts of stuff that
was happening back then. But I mean
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it's one of those you know,
in the nineties, every week there was
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a new you know at John Singleton, Robert Rodgerie Guesst, Kevin Smith.
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So in the early two thousands,
Hustle and Flow hit, and it was
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it was an explosion in the indie
space. So there was a lot of
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talk about it. And I remember
when because John, you know, the
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late grade John Singleton, when he
was doing the rounds, I was I
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was like, looking at how this
Craig guy get this thing made? How
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did he get this task? How
did John Singleton get involved? And then
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I remember and correct me if I'm
wrong. In one of his interviews,
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he's like, well, the studio
wouldn't give me the money, so I
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put up the money and he actually, which is one thing you never do
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as a filmmakers put your own cash
in at that level. And he's like,
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no, I'm going to write a
check because that's how much I believe
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in this, and and he gave
you a shot. It was pretty remarkable.
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It's unheard of. It's really unheard
of in the Hollywood. Oh it
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is. I bring up all the
time, like he And it's interesting you
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bring that up about just the culture
of Sundance at the time, because you
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know, I was reading all those
books that were about like the you know,
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there was there was even this one
book and I can't remember, but
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it was kind of like tracking the
growth of Sundance and then the growth of
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Oh Mirrormax, I believe at this
and and then And it's really interesting because
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and this is what I have to
give myself credit for for like trying to
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just read all the books that I
could, because I learned a lot about
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how it worked. And I'll never
forget. We were in There's like three
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am in the morning and John is
the bidding War is happening. After the
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first screening at Hustling Flow, Oh
God, that was amazing, and I
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mean to watch that go down was
crazy. But I'll never forget the moment
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where this guy, Richard Klubeck,
who was one of the agents that was
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negotiating for John Singleton, and he
turned to me and he was like,
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so, what's important to you?
And I said, well, I only
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have two requirements. One that nobody
changed the cut. The cut is the
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cut. That's the movie. We
won't be changing that. And I want
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no options. And they were like, wow, how do you know about
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options? And it was because I'd
read these books. And what I knew
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about these books was that like right
around the time of like like late nineties
347
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into the two thousands, Harvey Weinstein
had figured out a new model where he
348
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would buy these movies, but he
was kind of buying the filmmaker. So
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he would buy the movie and then
he would make you sign. You would
350
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be happy to sign it, but
you would you would sign basically and negotiated
351
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what your next three film for Harvey
at a negotiated price that was or a
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set price. Excuse me. So, even if you suddenly were Germo Dotro
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and you became like Germo de Toro
and you had no movies that Harvey Weinsey
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wanted to make, and you want
to go to somebody else to make a
355
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movie, then Harvey would make a
deal for himself to get him out of
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that contract. And so I had
read about that and I was like,
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I don't want that, and and
then you know, John put his house
358
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up for collateral. We made the
movie for under three million. I mean,
359
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we made the movie for about a
million nine. I remember I shot
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it in about twenty three days.
We did like six day weeks here in
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Memphis. And we even had like
it was called modified low budget scale,
362
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:49.599
which means that if you had more
than than a certain amount percentage of actors
363
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or actresses of color, or if
they were handicapped, then you got to
364
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be in a different bracket. And
so we really made it for very very
365
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:02.079
little money. And then John had
this big, you know, sixteen million
366
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dollar deal that he got out of
it. And I always tell people,
367
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it's like, yeah, but that's
what risk rewards you with, you know,
368
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because everybody tells you don't put your
own money in these projects. And
369
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John put put his house up for
it. You know. He joked with
370
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me every day, you better make
a good movie or my kids aren't are
371
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:23.440
are going to go back to public
school. But I really have to give
372
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it to him, because it's not
only that he took a shot with me,
373
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but he really mentored me. I
mean he really was. He knew
374
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that I had filmed a movie just
all by myself with like a video camera
375
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in my hands. But then he
would he would really kind of like come
376
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over to me and just go like, we're gonna make our day. So
377
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if you really had to shoot this
next scene with three setups, what would
378
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:49.839
you you know, what would be
those setups? And and that that's when
379
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:55.079
I started to learn how to how
to marshal a day, you know,
380
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right, That's the thing that they
don't teach you very often in school or
381
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.960
if you're doing your own Indians,
like you can't make your day if you're
382
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:06.000
like half a quarter page out,
third of the page out after day one,
383
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.000
after day three, the whole thing
is going downhill. Do you won't
384
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.839
make the movie? The movie's done. You have to make your day.
385
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.240
You have to make your day.
You have to make your day. And
386
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:17.400
it's and it's always compromise, isn't
it. Like you show up with like
387
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.680
this beautiful shot list of like I'm
going to do these spielberg at shots with
388
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:23.480
some Sorcese and some Coppola and maybe
throw a little hitchcock in there, and
389
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.440
at the end of the day is
all right, we're gonna get this in
390
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.799
a one er. We're just gonna
put it on sticks. Yep, everyone
391
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:34.319
act five minutes, let's go.
Oh it's so stressful and so stressful.
392
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.960
And you think and you think we'd
learn, you know, you think that
393
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.200
we'd get better at it. You
think that it eventually go away, but
394
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.279
it doesn't. It just I mean, I've heard so many stories of like
395
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really like accomplished filmmakers that still weep, you know, on set because they
396
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.319
just couldn't get that last shot that
they think that they needed. And it's
397
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.000
so crucial, you know. I
always love I always love going on it.
398
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When I'm on a set, first
day with my first day da I
399
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:03.319
used to I love bringing this like
it's stupid shot list, like stupid,
400
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:07.799
It's like it'll never happened. But
they don't know me, so I'll give
401
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:10.960
it to them. And then there's
that awkward conversation. They're like right before
402
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.200
the first shot, They're like,
can I am, Can I just talk
403
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:18.640
about a couple of things the first
ad. I'm like, we discussed the
404
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.119
work. I mean, so there's
one hundred and twenty eight setups here,
405
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:27.839
Um I go. I know,
they're just there and I'll pick and choose
406
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:33.640
as we go, but they're there
just in case. You know, I
407
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:41.319
have to say I I don't do
shot lists. Oh you don't like I
408
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:48.799
don't. I'm sure, I'm sure
I could and should and and but I
409
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.440
I find that you really do have
to show up on that day and find
410
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:57.160
out what the day is bringing you. And yeah, really all that prep
411
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.400
that you did the night before really
could go right out the window. And
412
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.880
you really do sometimes go like,
oh, I think I am going to
413
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:04.839
have to do this in two shots? And what would I have to do
414
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:11.039
in two shots? Because you're marshaling
the day and I've there's there's been a
415
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:17.359
few times where, you know,
a studio head saying like I remember,
416
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.680
they always send someone else, They
send some minion to say like, well,
417
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:25.279
you know the the this studio head
was wondering if maybe you could make
418
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:26.559
some shot you know, if you
did your shot list the night before,
419
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.839
And I'll say who suggested that,
you know, and they get all nervous
420
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:37.000
and everything like that, and so, M I understand it. I'm a
421
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.240
very agreeable guy, but I just
find that that unless you're doing like a
422
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:44.599
stunt sequence, you're doing something definitely
something like that. But otherwise I kind
423
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:47.119
of like just to get there with
the actors and figure out how we're going
424
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:48.519
to do it right then and there. And I would agree with you too.
425
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.640
Early in my career would be I
had a little bit more gusto in
426
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:53.720
me, and I would do all
that kind of stuff at that. Later,
427
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.440
as I started directing more and more, you just kind of get an
428
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:04.920
instinct for it. Well right back
after a word from our sponsor, and
429
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:10.079
now back to the show, Yeah, come on set, and you just
430
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:11.240
go, oh, yeah, I
just put it over here. Let's get
431
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:15.119
this over here. Yeah, you
give me a thirty two here, let's
432
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.079
and you just start. You just
figure it out on the fly. Yeah,
433
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:21.359
but if there's something special you want, like you know what, I
434
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.480
really want to do this this kind
of fun way, and I'll bring maybe
435
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.799
a few shots that I'll talk to
the DP prior to it. That kind
436
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.000
of set it all up for it. But yeah, having a I don't
437
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:36.480
do the hundred as much anymore because
whenever we know yeah, it's like you
438
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:37.839
know, it's going to go right
out the window. Really um, but
439
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.559
I do feel that. I mean, I'll tell you when I really felt
440
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:47.720
like I learned how to direct was
I had already made let's see four features,
441
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.319
and and then I started in on
Empire, where like directing television like
442
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:55.839
I had done it, I've done
like about three pilots and and one episode
443
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.160
of the Shield. But to go
into like episode after episode episode on Empire,
444
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:06.680
I understood Spielberg better, like because
I'd read everywhere that like Spielberg really
445
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:11.880
cut his teeth on television, early
television. And that's when I felt like
446
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.119
I for the first time I was
a director because there was a there was
447
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:21.640
a sense of me not being important. I mean, I know that sounds
448
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.839
a little contradictory, but like you
know, you can't say like, well
449
00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:26.839
I want it this way. They're
like, well, okay, have it
450
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.680
your way. But you know if
you're not done, you know we're going
451
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.839
to get someone in here that'll do
it because you have eight days and that's
452
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:38.440
it. And that really I started
thinking differently, like as something as simple
453
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.559
as extras, you know that,
which is never simple. But like when
454
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.160
I'm on a feature, sometimes I'll
be like, well, I gotta have
455
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.279
three hundred extras obviously for the scene, and then you argue and argue and
456
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.519
argue and are you and it's funny, right and then you but in television
457
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.720
there's no discussion. They're like,
no, you have twenty that's that's what
458
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.960
you're getting and you need to figure
it out. And so then it starts
459
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.720
exercising these different muscles in you.
Then you're like, okay, well,
460
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.359
wait a minute, what if we
just do this, like with a long
461
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.359
lens kind of pointing down this hallway
and we just packed this hallway with the
462
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:12.559
twenty people and we don't really see
that we just have twenty people, and
463
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:20.039
then that's how we'll create a cluttered
space or you know. And I don't
464
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.240
know if I would have felt that
way or done that if I just got
465
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:25.759
what I wanted and it just had
a bunch of people in there. And
466
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.279
so I when I went to do
Dolomite is my name after all that,
467
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.640
and everybody was so like worried that, like, man, you're gonna be
468
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.119
working with Eddie Murphy and are you
scared? And I said, actually,
469
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:43.000
I'm really not. I really feel
like Empire has prepared me for this moment.
470
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.759
And I already made a bunch of
features, you know, so I
471
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:49.720
felt very confident going into that movie. Let me ask you, what was
472
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.799
you know, working with someone like
John on hustle and flow and him mentoring
473
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:59.519
you, what was like the biggest
lesson you learn about filmmaking or writing from
474
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.559
John? Because I mean, John's
just such a legendary filmmaker. I watched
475
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:06.519
Boys in the Hood, I mean
thousands of times. It was just such
476
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.759
a masterpiece. Oh a piece of
work. John. John said something I
477
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:17.000
still I will still hear John in
my head on set. And one thing
478
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:22.200
that he said to me that I
really took to heart was and he punches
479
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.759
when he says, He's like,
shoot the meat, Shoot the meat.
480
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:31.839
Man, shoot this scene. Make
your master, not just some little stupid
481
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:36.799
crawling across like you know that that
slow kind you see it a lot in
482
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:38.920
TV. It's like it's like a
master that's kind of moving a little bit.
483
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:45.680
But he believed that you needed to
make your master, like Spielberg does
484
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:51.200
his his wonders that if and I'll
never forget what he said. He said,
485
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:52.559
you gotta shoot the meat. You
gotta shoot it, you gotta shoot
486
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:58.519
it good because you never know what
may happen. You may lose half your
487
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.400
day because an actor like you know
something, it may hurt himself or like
488
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.480
you know, the thunder comes along
or lightning, and now you've got to
489
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:13.719
shut down and you want to be
able to know that if people turn the
490
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:20.719
lights off on you, you've got
you've got your scene. And that that
491
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.760
was a that was a big one
for me. That was like he's still
492
00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:31.599
he was still of that. He
really loved cinema and so he if you
493
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:37.599
look at John's movies, um from
Four Brothers, every movie he does,
494
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:42.360
he is a classic filmmaker now.
And what I mean by that is that
495
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.360
there's a lot of filmmakers today,
and god knows, I'm I can be
496
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:46.599
just as guilty of it. Where
it's kind of like you're just kind of
497
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.239
shooting heads. You do your master, you do your medium, and then
498
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.440
it's just like you're just hoping that
the editor kind of like creates the rhythm
499
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.360
of it because you're gonna cut to
that person, and you're gonna cut to
500
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:59.159
that person and cut to that person. Where John was very much like,
501
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.519
no, how do we how do
we stage this within the within the single
502
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:07.440
um where everybody you know, you
you you get the story told and people
503
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:13.400
are moving within the frame. That's
like John Ford, that's you know,
504
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:16.840
that's that's Wells, that's that's that's
Wilder, that that's all those films that
505
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:23.320
he watched and studied and and I
still every time I sit with my director
506
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:27.880
photography, I do kind of go
like, Okay, I know I'm going
507
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:31.480
to pop in for some singles here
and there, but if we had to
508
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:37.840
shoot the meat, how would we
shoot it? And so it's so John,
509
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:42.719
it really is. But yeah,
I think that that was probably the
510
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:51.239
biggest lesson. And then you know
also to just trust that that. It's
511
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:55.920
funny because so much of our advice
usually comes pre post right, right,
512
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.800
all the advice that everybody wants,
like how do I get a movie?
513
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:02.960
Ma? And then like how do
you direct? Right? But no one
514
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:10.599
ever really gives you advice about the
whole editorial process, right, And John,
515
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.199
I was just I remember I saw
the first edit of Hustle and Flow
516
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:22.159
that just the editor you know,
cut, and I'd never seen anything like
517
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.880
that. I'd never That's the that's
the first heartbreak of a filmmaker is when
518
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:31.599
you've been you've been dreaming of your
movie. You've been watching dailies, and
519
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:37.599
now you're watching a very rough,
raw assemblage of your movie. It doesn't
520
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.639
have the music cues that you think
it needs to have, it doesn't have
521
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:45.239
a pacing. But worse than that, it's now real. The rubber is
522
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:47.599
hitting the road. It is no
longer in fantasy. This is what you
523
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:52.480
have, and now you need to
make something out of this. I pulled
524
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:58.360
over on Olympic Boulevard and I sobbed
so hard that snot was pouring out of
525
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:01.960
my nose. It was it is
so bad. And then like and John
526
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:07.239
calls me up. It's like,
what's wrong. It's I've just a just
527
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:08.679
totally messed up this movie. Man, I just you know, And he's
528
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:12.599
like, you just want to edit
assemblers? Like shut shut up, man,
529
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:15.880
you know he's just go home,
go to sleep. You know everything's
530
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:17.239
gonna be good. You gonna get
in there and everything. He always kind
531
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.679
of just kept me in this perspective
that I think when you get older,
532
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.760
or when you've made more films,
you begin to see like, Okay,
533
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:30.000
I'm about to go in, I'm
about to I'm about to watch this cut.
534
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:35.280
I know it's gonna drive me insane, but relax. And that's that's
535
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:37.440
the other big lesson that he gave
me. Marty still does that. Marty
536
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.960
still after the first cut he goes, this is horrible. This is crap.
537
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.320
He walks out like this is garbage. This is absolute garbage, and
538
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.639
like and then Filma has to bring
him back in and it's okay, Marty,
539
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:51.480
it's fine, it's fine. It's
all that kind of stuff. Now.
540
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.239
I always wanted to ask you this
question, man, how in God's
541
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:59.599
green Earth did you get Black Snake
Moan made? Like that is the most
542
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:06.880
same concept, you know? It? Just wow? How who put money
543
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:08.440
up behind that? I know you
had a little eat from Hustle and Flow
544
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:12.960
and that probably helped, But man, that's still a pretty risque film.
545
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.239
I would like to really give credit
where credit is due. And the reason
546
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:23.719
that movie got made was because of
the late Brad Gray, who who ran
547
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:30.800
Paramount. Now Brad his first order
of business at Paramount. This was before
548
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:36.840
he took over at Paramount. It
was like what Sundance was like in January,
549
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.079
and he was taking over like in
March. But John was very smart,
550
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:45.159
and John had two prints of Hustling
Flow made, so he had one
551
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:50.920
at Sundance and he had the other
one playing simultaneously in Brad Gray's private screening
552
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:54.840
room, and knowing full well that
he kind of wanted the movie to be
553
00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:01.599
a Paramount right, So before Brad
even became official, like on the clock,
554
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:06.239
so to speak, he was watching
Hustle and Flow and he told everybody
555
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:08.480
like, I think you should you
should try to go buy that movie because
556
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:12.119
you know MTV and b ET,
you know, we could really use the
557
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.079
Viacom machine and all that kind of
stuff. So then what happened was is
558
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.760
that they made a deal with John
Right and the John deal was for see,
559
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.559
the purchase price of Hustle and Flow
was in two categories. It was
560
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:29.599
they purchased the movie for nine million
dollars. But then they made a deal
561
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:34.440
with John Singleton where he got two
what are called put pictures, which means
562
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.320
like kind of no matter what,
he can make a movie as long as
563
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.480
it's under three million dollars. And
he had two of those because he brought
564
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:44.880
Hustle and Flow to Paramount. We
both we brought it to them numerous times
565
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:46.840
and they passed on it, and
we just wanted three million dollars. And
566
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:52.320
now they paid nine for it,
and so he was like, hey,
567
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:53.599
I want to make more of these, and later he made one called The
568
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.679
Illegal Tender, where he just wanted
to have complete control over his movies.
569
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:07.639
We'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor. And now back to
570
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:14.000
the show. When they bought that
movie and they made that deal with John,
571
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.400
they thought that I was a part
of it. But remember what I
572
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:22.000
said earlier, no options, right, I didn't want anything on it.
573
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:27.559
So I will will never forget this
moment where because I wrote Black Snake Moan
574
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:34.440
before Hustle and Flowed was made.
And while we're flying back to LA from
575
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:40.719
Sundance, I saw two people reading
Black Snake mom and I thought, Oh,
576
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:44.760
this is that heat I've been hearing
about, Like this is that thing
577
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.480
that maybe I have a shot there. So John really loved it and Stephanie
578
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.559
really loved it, and they knew
it was crazy and they and yet they
579
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.599
also saw what I wanted to do
with it because it was very much about
580
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:59.760
like connection and anxiety and there was
a heart behind it. It wasn't just
581
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:02.480
exploitation, even though it you know, it was kind of like a blues
582
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:08.280
fable. But we started meeting with
other studios, and then we got Sam
583
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:12.199
and then Brad Gray was like,
well, wait a minute, why is
584
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:15.519
he going off to make a movie
somewhere else. We just bought Hustle and
585
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:19.159
Flow and it's going to be coming
out. So uh. They go,
586
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:22.840
well, you don't have a deal
with him. He's like, oh,
587
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.280
so, I'll never forget going over
to his house. I'll never forget this
588
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:30.239
the ivy. There was an IVY
wall. I was like calling this assistant,
589
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:31.400
going like I think I'm at his
house. I just can't see anything.
590
00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:35.199
They're like, no, we see
you. And this wall of IVY
591
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:40.320
moves, and when it moved,
it revealed this just really muscular African American
592
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:45.800
guy in a black armony suit with
black sunglasses and an earpiece and he had
593
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.039
a Rottweiler that was right next to
him. That was just it was like
594
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.639
it was it was like you were
entering like a cartel, you know.
595
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:57.679
And and I come in and Brad
comes out and he goes, Okay,
596
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:02.599
you want to make this Radiator movie, that's what he called it. And
597
00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:06.239
I said, and he goes,
are you sure you don't want to do
598
00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:07.840
something else? I know that like
we can you know, there's all these
599
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:10.119
kind of properties that we have,
and we can put you on it.
600
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:13.679
And I said to him, I
said, well, I've read a lot
601
00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:19.000
of books about about filmmakers in my
position, and the way I see it
602
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.159
is that I think that the second
movie always is kind of a risky thing,
603
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:29.760
you know, um. And I'm
pretty confident that I could probably get
604
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:34.719
a job as a director doing you
know, franchise stuff or other stuff later
605
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:38.760
on. But I really feel like
I should use this time to get something
606
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:46.039
made that normally wouldn't get made.
And he said I respect that, and
607
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:50.639
he goes, well I am.
He goes, I don't. How do
608
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:54.239
you put it? I don't bet
on races. I bet on horses.
609
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:59.000
And he goes, so, we're
gonna make Black Snake? Moan? Is
610
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.079
that is that? Finally? Just
is it? Can we just say right
611
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:02.760
here that we're gonna make it?
And I go, if you want to
612
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:06.559
make it, sir, then absolutely. And he made it, and he
613
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:09.800
was proud of it, and and
people were were telling him he was an
614
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.360
idiot for doing it. Why are
you going to do this? No one's
615
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:16.519
gonna come see it? And nobody
came see it. Um, But I
616
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:22.239
always think about there's that day that
Paramount called and said, look, we've
617
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:23.920
got foot Loose and we really want
to do something with it. Do you
618
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:27.599
think you could do it? And
I was like, yes, sir,
619
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:30.599
because I felt like this was this
is me going like I told you guys,
620
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.480
I'll be there for you on something
that maybe, you know, uh,
621
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:43.239
may not be about changing people to
bluesman's radiators and and uh and that's
622
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.719
that's how we that's how we did
it. I'm so proud that it exists
623
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:51.840
in the world because I now I
now just feel like I don't I just
624
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:55.760
don't. I mean, I definitely
don't see a world where a theatrical release
625
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.639
would have been attempted on something like
that. I can see like maybe Black
626
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.360
Snake being at a stream or something
like that, but even then it's going
627
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:06.400
to be a little bit wild to
get that done because you know, you
628
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.159
would get the kind of studio notes
like oh what is this? What kind
629
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:12.559
of tone is it? But that
movie doesn't get made today. There's no
630
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.079
way that movie gets made today.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's
631
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:21.159
definitely volatile. You know, there's
no way that that movie gets made today.
632
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:23.000
I'm so and I'm glad that there's
certain movies like that that I'm glad
633
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:29.360
to exist. I think Tim Burton's
Mars Attacks is one of those films.
634
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:31.199
For me. Yeah, I'm like, I can't. When I walked out
635
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.159
of there, I'm like, man, I don't know what just happened,
636
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.000
but I'm glad it exists, you
know. I just I'm glad that that
637
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:40.599
movie got made. And there's a
handful of those throughout cinema, but Black
638
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:44.639
Snake's Moans one of them's like,
there's just no way that gets made today.
639
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:49.280
There's just no no amount of heat
allows that film to get made in
640
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:53.159
today's environment. And it was tough
and that you know different years ago,
641
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.639
well, you know, and it
came out. It was such an interesting
642
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:00.800
year because no one really like the
movie movie business, the movie industry was
643
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:04.000
changing. It came out in two
thousand and seven, and that was like
644
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:09.159
a real pivotal year for what was
happening on a global level. So,
645
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:13.840
you know, you were making movies
that China had to play, and South
646
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.000
America had to play, and even
Russia. It's so funny, how like,
647
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:19.159
you know, the very people that
now are so much in the news
648
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:22.559
right now, two thousand and seven
was all about trying to make movies for
649
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:27.719
them and uh. And so you
know, you had Carnahan's movie, I
650
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.119
think Smoke and Aces was coming out
at the time, you had you had
651
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:36.039
Death Proof at the same time,
along you know, with Robert with Forbidden
652
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:43.920
Planet and um and it none of
us did well in the audience, like
653
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.159
none of us Like it was a
bad it was a bad move for win
654
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:51.119
the well Joe. I mean,
I've talked to Joe about Smoke and Aces
655
00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:52.760
and he still says that's he makes
more money off of Smoke and Aces now
656
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.360
than he's made on anything. It's
so funny that that worked out. So
657
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:02.159
so here's what's interesting is that the
head of Paramount Home Video like called me
658
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:06.039
up and just said, we want
you to know something about Black Snake Moan.
659
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:09.199
I was like, oh, great, Like Black Snake Moan not only
660
00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:15.480
did double our expectations, it not
only tripled our expectation, it quadrupled our
661
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.519
expectations, which means to say,
and I go, yeah, people probably
662
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.159
don't want to go out to a
theater to see this movie, but they're
663
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.320
dying to watch it at home.
And that's and so I've I've always felt
664
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:30.880
good that I've yet to really make
anything that like cost a studio money.
665
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:37.320
I've I've at the very least broke
even and uh and so uh yeah,
666
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.280
I'm proud that I have that that
movie behind me. Yeah, and in
667
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:43.639
a time where you you know,
it came out at a time when there
668
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:47.119
was still home video. Yeah that
was that was a real revenue generator.
669
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:54.679
And now what's so strange, what's
so strange is is now there's that meme
670
00:46:55.239 --> 00:47:00.880
of Sam from Black Snake Money where
he's just kind of yeah, blinket like
671
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:06.039
looking like with a white hair and
the and and that gets sent around.
672
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.880
I remember talking to a class of
my daughters and I brought that up and
673
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:13.920
they're like, oh, yeah,
we you know, we used that all
674
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.280
the time. That's from your movie. So so they're just looking at a
675
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:21.599
frame or like a series of frames
because he's blinking and moving a little bit,
676
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.880
and they don't know what it's from. But it has its own life.
677
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:30.039
I mean the same thing to be
said for here in town. You
678
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.559
know, our Memphis Grizzlies are our
basketball team. Whenever we go out of
679
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:37.159
the playoffs and we're like really in
the mix, they start playing that song
680
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:42.960
from Hustle and Flow, Whoop that
trick, And twenty thousand people start chanting,
681
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.039
Whoop that trick. And I found
out that like my daughter and all
682
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.000
her friends, they didn't know that
was from Hustle and Flow. They just
683
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:52.360
thought that was the thing you said
at basketball games. And it's that's so
684
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.440
interesting about about the generations to They'll
get a clip of something, or they'll
685
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.559
get a little bit of it,
but they don't know that it's got this
686
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:01.760
history that it's connected to. It's
it's literally like visual hip hop, you
687
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:06.360
know, right? No? Absolutely? Yoh yeah, dude, that's that's
688
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:08.719
remarkable. Now, listen all the
times you've been on set. What is
689
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:14.000
the craziest thing that ever happened to
you on set? How did you overcome
690
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:19.519
it? As a director? M
Well, what are the ones that I
691
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:22.280
want to talk about? I was
a publicly Yeah, publicly. What can
692
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:23.760
you say when we when we stopped
recording, you can tell me the other
693
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:27.440
ones before? Right now, I
got too, I can tell you by
694
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:30.719
that. Well, you know,
I let's see, what is the craziest
695
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:37.199
thing that's ever happened? Um?
Oh man, you're stumping me there.
696
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:45.639
I mean I think there's always been
there. There hasn't been something that uh
697
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.760
uh, of course, that I
can talk about that would be like completely
698
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:54.880
uh like derailed a production or something
like that. It would always be um
699
00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:00.679
uh like happy accidents or something like
that. So I'll tell you just the
700
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:09.480
craziest night I've ever had on set
was um In Hustle and Flow, there
701
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:15.599
is a scene at as it's a
roller skating rink here in Memphis called the
702
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:20.079
Crystal Palace, and it was outside
and it had this glorious like you know,
703
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.360
neon sign that up, and I
really wanted to do kind of like
704
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:27.639
a cruising scene where everybody's out there
with their cars that I'd sometimes see on
705
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:30.400
the weekend where they're like, you
know, they're hopping there, you know
706
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.039
there they're pump you know, they're
pump cars and everything like that, and
707
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:37.760
just hundreds of people there, and
basically everybody said like, you got to
708
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:39.639
figure out another way to do this
because there's no way we can afford all
709
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:43.800
these extras and there's no way we
can get a car like this, and
710
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:50.719
John Singleton was like, absolutely not. So John went on four different radio
711
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:59.519
stations that day. We'll be right
back after a word from our sponsor and
712
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:05.079
now back to the show, and
said, hey, we're making a movie.
713
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:07.079
You want to be in my movie. Then you come out to the
714
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:12.280
Crystal Palace, you bring your ride, you bring a car. And hundreds
715
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:15.639
of people showed up. That that's
a furious stuff. That's and furious stuff,
716
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:17.960
totally fast and furious style for no
money. Like we didn't, we
717
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.920
didn't, we didn't pay for those
cars. Those cars just showed up.
718
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:24.320
People just wanted to show off their
cars, all those extras, all those
719
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:29.639
people. And as the nights started
going on, and then the weed smoke
720
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:31.920
started like just getting thicker. At
a certain point, John was getting so
721
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:37.159
excited. But I remember like grabbing
John. And at a certain point I
722
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.400
like grabbed him by the shoulders and
I was like, am I in South
723
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:44.480
Central right now? He goes,
No, I go where am I?
724
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:47.079
He goes, You're in Memphis?
I go, No, you're in Memphis.
725
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:51.519
You're now in my community. And
I'm telling you we got half half
726
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:54.519
an hour before something pops off right
now, because it's getting like way too
727
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:59.679
unhinged, and people are like starting
I'm seeing like a couple of arguments having
728
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:05.119
here and John, we've got one
security guard because that's all we could afford.
729
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:07.320
And like we weren't we weren't.
We weren't that big of a movie.
730
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:09.960
But I swear to God, like
that was the night that I thought
731
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:15.119
that everything that was just going to
explode. And every time I see that
732
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:17.199
shot, it looks like we have
so much money, it looks like we
733
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:22.159
can't remember that shot. I remember
that it was so reckless and so amazing
734
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:23.960
that John just went on all these
different radio stations said you want to be
735
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:28.079
in the movie, show up,
And I mean we had like people down
736
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:31.880
the block trying to get into the
movie. And it was a scary night.
737
00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:35.960
But that was like the night that
I felt like, man, I'm
738
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:38.880
I'm running and gunning as like a
filmmaker. You know, it's a it's
739
00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:44.559
it was. It was scary but
exciting. So there's another movie you made,
740
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:47.199
um that I absolutely adored, and
I didn't even know it was you
741
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:52.559
until the credits rolled. I'm like, oh my god, Dolomite, Dolomite,
742
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:57.960
Dolomite is my name? What an
amazing Every filmmaker needs to watch that
743
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:05.199
because it is you just smelled hustle
of an independent filmmaker. Doing things at
744
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:08.440
a time when they just weren't done. And he controlled his he controlled his
745
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:15.599
content, he controlled his his ip
he just and he was making bank back
746
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.400
then. He just figured out the
hustle. He just fogured out the hustle.
747
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:21.599
It was Ray Moore, you know. And I gotta say, like
748
00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:27.920
it was around this time, you
know, in Dolomite. I remember,
749
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:31.639
I don't I don't. I don't
fault the producers for this, but I
750
00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:36.880
remember I was on a location scout
four Dolomite is my name, and an
751
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:42.519
article came out announcing all the movies
that Netflix was doing and we weren't on
752
00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:45.639
it. And so I called up
the producers and I go, you know,
753
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:51.320
everybody on my crew just read this
article about all the movies that Netflix
754
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:55.920
is making right now and we're not
in it. And and you know,
755
00:52:55.960 --> 00:53:00.239
the producer said, well, I
told them not to put us in there
756
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:06.079
yet. And I said why and
he said, well, I just wanted
757
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:08.159
to get us filming because I'm I'm
I'm worried about the fact that you're not
758
00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:14.840
African American and that and that there's
a and and that there's um, you
759
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:16.599
know that the climate right now is
going to kind of take you to task
760
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:21.960
on that. And I remember getting
off the phone and it was the first
761
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.960
time I felt bad. I felt
like, because I gotta be honest with
762
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:30.519
you, Like after Hustle and Flow, I felt like a lot of the
763
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:34.840
a lot of the movies that I
was wanting to make, a lot of
764
00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:39.280
the stories I was wanting to tell
h Charlie Pride story and and and other
765
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:43.679
scripts that I wrote had, you
know, just like the city I live
766
00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:50.000
in just a lot of African American
characters. And there I felt like I
767
00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:52.000
was I mean, this is back
in like two thousand and six and everything,
768
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.599
but I felt like it was a
time where I was saying like,
769
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:58.559
well, these more of these movies
should be made and they shouldn't be put
770
00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:02.480
in boxes. And I felt like
I was trying to do this kind of
771
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:07.679
content. But then now now in
the Dolomite is my name Era, which
772
00:54:07.719 --> 00:54:13.440
is now in like what was it
like, uh, seventeen, twenty seventeen.
773
00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:19.880
Oh yeah, we were. We
were in a time now where you
774
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:23.800
know, you had to you had
to have a you. You you had
775
00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:30.239
to It wasn't enough just to have
an African American cast. You needed an
776
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:36.519
African American voice or a director,
which I always want to be an ally
777
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:39.280
for that, but it's it's weird
for me where I live, where I
778
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:44.239
want to tell a story UM that
I feel like I have a connection to
779
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:50.239
UM. So I called Eddie and
I was like, listen, man,
780
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:55.159
I I I there's I'm worried about
this because I don't want to I don't
781
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:59.760
want to feel like I'm taking away
an opportunity for someone to have a voice.
782
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:02.840
And and Eddie was like, I
mean, he's very considerate about it.
783
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:07.440
But he said, well, listen, I feel like I should be
784
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:09.400
able to work with whoever I want
to work with. And I said,
785
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:15.440
I understand that, and he goes, but Craig Rudy ray Moore is a
786
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:23.119
Southern guy who came from Arkansas,
came to Los Angeles and put together a
787
00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:29.800
rag tag team of people to make
a movie even though they didn't really know
788
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:32.760
what they were doing, and then
he had a career that started from that.
789
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:37.320
He goes, can you name me
anybody who's done that in their life?
790
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:39.519
And I was like, well,
other than me, and he goes,
791
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:44.079
yeah, name me another filmmaker that
has that story. And I was
792
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:46.599
like, I hear you. And
after that talk, I felt like,
793
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:52.440
well, wait a minute, I
know this story. I've lived this story,
794
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:57.599
and the best thing that I can
do is and this is what John
795
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:01.159
Singleton and this producer great produce are
Dwight Williams, who made a Hustle and
796
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:07.360
Flow with us and and Black Snake, like you know, they put to
797
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:08.960
me that you know, when you
make movies, you need to you need
798
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.920
to that. They were blunt.
They were like, you need to hire
799
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.800
black people. You know, you
need to put you need to you need
800
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:19.840
to um, you know, make
opportunities any anywhere you can. But now
801
00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:25.840
we're in an era where now studios
have come around to that um and and
802
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:30.760
and now the best thing I can
say to you know, people who are
803
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.760
not of color who are making content
like that, is you've got to listen
804
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:38.760
and you've got to be as responsible
as you can. UM. But you
805
00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:42.719
got to ask yourself. You got
to have that moment where you you go
806
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:45.320
like, well should I be telling
this? Should I be? Should this
807
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:51.880
story be mine? And and recognize
that uh if if, maybe it shouldn't
808
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:55.239
be. And and I found a
reason in a way that I needed to
809
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:59.239
and I had the trust of an
actor who really wanted to work with me,
810
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.679
and so I felt I felt okay
with it, you know well,
811
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:05.840
and and thank you for putting that
out there, because you know, I
812
00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:08.960
think I think we're we've overcorrected just
a slight bit on some of this stuff.
813
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:13.039
Because like even in the Heights when
that came out, and they were
814
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.920
just like, oh, it's an
Asian director. He's not He's not.
815
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.480
Like I'm Latino, so I've been, you know, been Latino all my
816
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.079
life. Uh And and I looked
at that, I'm like, great,
817
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:25.000
And I'm from New York. I
know those streets, I know all of
818
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:29.000
that, and I'm like, is
he the best person to tell the story?
819
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:31.679
Well? And I think that,
you know. And another thing on
820
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:36.679
in the Heights that I've had to
experience this firsthand with the Latino community in
821
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:40.000
terms of acting, is that there
have been so few roles right and for
822
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:45.920
for for and I had done a
pilot of Urban Cowboy and for and it
823
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:51.880
didn't go, but I said it
in the whole Tehano world like it was.
824
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:58.119
I mean, it was Mexican and
Texan, right, and to go
825
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:09.480
forth and try to catch asked a
show um with uh, Latino or and
826
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:14.360
and and you always during the time, I remember saying like, okay,
827
00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:16.480
well, what is the proper way? Because then you you you find that
828
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:22.239
that some people have a problem with
Latino somebody because you're well, I guess
829
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:25.119
you know, but but but but
there was, there was there was It
830
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:28.559
was around the time I was doing
this pilot. There was this question.
831
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:30.599
And so I would have actors that
would come and I'd be like, oh,
832
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:32.599
he's great, and then someone would
say like, yeah, but you
833
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:37.800
know he's not Mexican, right,
He's actually Cuban. And then you're like,
834
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:39.880
oh, okay, well maybe that
doesn't work. But then you realize,
835
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:45.760
like, okay. Then then then
a a swath of people who normally
836
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:50.440
would not even get an audition for
something because there wasn't really roles now just
837
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:57.159
got a lot smaller, right,
And I understand I totally get representation when
838
00:58:57.159 --> 00:58:59.360
people go like, that guy's not
Mexican, you know what I mean,
839
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.000
if you're from Mexico and you go
like, okay, that guy's obviously not
840
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.880
for what for whatever reason. But
in the heights, the same thing,
841
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:09.280
the same criticism was coming around,
which is like, well you know,
842
00:59:09.559 --> 00:59:15.079
that's not what and I and I
understand it because the world is getting larger
843
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.480
and the microphone is getting more specific, where a collected voice can say,
844
00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:23.360
hey, represent us right, But
there's realities to it in the in the
845
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:29.039
movie business especially, you know what
I mean. And and so you sometimes
846
00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.599
can shoot yourself in the foot trying
to do to do right. And I
847
00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:35.320
remember when all the criticism was coming
out on that, I was like,
848
00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:39.519
damn, like you're really gonna take
lin Manuel, you know, to task?
849
00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:44.880
You know, serious? Right?
Right? I mean, like I
850
00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:49.920
totally, I know, I totally
Like when poor Rita Marino, you know,
851
00:59:49.960 --> 00:59:51.480
they said what do you think about
that? She was like, let
852
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:53.320
him leave him alone? What's going
on? And then they and then they
853
00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:57.679
hopped on her. She had to
apologize. So it is a time of
854
00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.599
sensitivity that I think you still need
to listen and you need to understand.
855
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:09.199
We'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor and now back to the
856
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:15.480
show. But I know what you
mean by an overcorrection. But I just
857
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.880
think that the world now is just
is more. More microphones are in people's
858
01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:22.679
hands to say this is what I
want, and you should listen. We
859
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:27.679
should listen and try to do better. Well, listen when they did Narcos,
860
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:32.079
you know, um Narcos, the
you know, Pablo was I think
861
01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:38.599
Brazilian, right right, right,
but but he is Pablo. He looks
862
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:44.480
like Pablo. He did amazing job. And there's Colombians travel and my wife,
863
01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:47.039
my wife is Colombians. So when
she hears accents, she's like,
864
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:51.719
oh, that's a Mexican. Oh
right, that could you could hear the
865
01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:54.639
accents slightly, but you and I
can't. I couldn't. You know.
866
01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:59.119
He's like, oh, but Pablo, he got his Colombian accent down so
867
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:04.320
perfectly. She's like he's he's at
a whole other level, like he's really
868
01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:09.119
there. And you know what,
there's gotta be a balance. There's gotta
869
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:13.039
be a balance with all. Oh
and like I said, like we're you
870
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:16.000
know, as art as artists and
and in the and the industry, we're
871
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:21.920
moving forward into new territory. And
that's what I'm saying, Like I mean,
872
01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:22.840
I I think that we all need
to listen. I mean, I
873
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:28.400
remember I can't remember if it was
like on where it was where I saw
874
01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:35.079
this, but it was like some
some some Latino guys learning that Vasquez from
875
01:01:35.239 --> 01:01:39.760
Aliens was not Mexican that she was
a white Jewish woman actress, and and
876
01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:43.480
and you saw it. They were
almost like defensive, like, well,
877
01:01:43.519 --> 01:01:45.840
we don't care, it's vasques,
like you don't know what it meant to
878
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:52.119
us to have a Latino character.
They were a character just about But but
879
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:53.920
you kind of go like, okay, well that is you know, probably
880
01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:59.159
the darker you know, makeup on
an actress. I mean, okay,
881
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:01.719
okay, we're older now, maybe
we would make different decisions right now,
882
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:07.559
but don't necessarily like you know,
dog a moment in time that was actually
883
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:09.079
meant a lot to a lot of
people, you know what I mean.
884
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:13.920
And so they always and they always
show they picture her and Titanic. You're
885
01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:15.960
like that fastba like are you what? Like how is that the same?
886
01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:20.280
The same lady? You know you
can't go back and you know, try
887
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:23.840
to cancel you. We're moving forward, moving forward, and we gotta listen.
888
01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:27.199
That's that's the big thing. I
think that's the big thing is that
889
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:30.639
is that everybody I think sometimes gets
like really stealed up and then they want
890
01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:37.760
to like fight, and that is
the case for diversity. I've loved Swarm.
891
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:42.440
I don't know if you've watched Swarm
on Amazon Prime, you know,
892
01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:45.280
Donald Glover and please forgive me,
I just don't have it in front of
893
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:51.159
me. But the other showrunner,
um uh who she worked on Atlanta.
894
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:59.840
Um. But it's it's a gloriously
creative and yet at the same time,
895
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:05.119
there can be criticism for it,
uh, you know, from people saying,
896
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:07.519
like, you know, your protagonist
as this African American woman, and
897
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:14.320
why are you why are you not
showing their showing a side to her that
898
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:17.039
that humanizes the fact that she's essentially
a serial killer, you know. And
899
01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:22.039
so we're moving forward constantly in so
many different directions, but there's always going
900
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:30.119
to be uh complaint or or valid, valid criticism, And I think we
901
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:32.679
just all got to take a breath
and go like, we're artists. It's
902
01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:36.440
not the best we can. Yeah, we're doing the best we can.
903
01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:38.960
And also it's art, you know, so sometimes it's just gonna be messy,
904
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:43.800
you know. And uh, the
thing I just try to do is
905
01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:46.480
just try to get a bunch of
really good artists that also listen and talk
906
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:50.800
and think, and my job is
just to make sure that they're comfortable doing
907
01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:53.599
their thing. You know. That's
a that's how I justified as like,
908
01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:59.480
can I just be the guy that
that is working in service of all these
909
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:02.559
artists? And then sometimes you chain
up a lading to a radiator and that's
910
01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:08.840
okay. It is it is as
this beautiful poster behind you state, I
911
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:11.719
know I had the radiator actually right
over here, and mind you don't you
912
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:15.119
do actually got the radio that I
do? That's amazing. M And one
913
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:18.360
last movie I want to ask you
about Man is Coming to America. I
914
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:25.000
mean, arguably, in my opinion, the greatest comedy ever made in my
915
01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:28.159
personal one. I quote that I
can quote every single line in that movie.
916
01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:32.000
It is a masterpiece and everybody every
level. So how did you approach
917
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:38.440
attempting to make a sequel to a
masterpiece like that? Because it is absolute
918
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:42.360
masterpiece the first one. You know, It's funny because I'm far enough away
919
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.679
from coming to America too that I
can kind of like think about the whole
920
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.119
experience because it was. It was
really wild first of all, like I
921
01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:53.519
did him back to back, like
I did Dolomite as my name went right
922
01:04:53.559 --> 01:05:00.599
into coming to America, and um, I remember I remember he asking me
923
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:02.400
to do it, and of course
I was like, well, how do
924
01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:05.480
I not do that? Because I
mean, I mean, I'm such a
925
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:11.039
huge John Landis fan. I think
I mean like everything, like like the
926
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:15.079
Blues Brothers, and I mean,
I I can quote every line from Three
927
01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:20.800
Amigoes to you. But I remember
talking to h Jody, the director of
928
01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:27.079
photography on it, and we're we're
we were I can't remember, we're We're
929
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:30.280
in a van, like a like
a locations van, and we had made
930
01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:33.880
like ten episodes of Empire together,
so we were we were close, right,
931
01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:39.159
and and Jody's black and and I
kind of leaned into him and I
932
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:44.480
was like, you know what we're
doing, right, We're we're kind of
933
01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:49.159
doing Black Star Wars, and uh, he goes, That's exactly what we're
934
01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:51.519
doing. And it was like it
was like this moment that we kind of
935
01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:59.280
like had to say and and and
what we meant by that was coming to
936
01:05:59.320 --> 01:06:06.880
America so much to everybody that uh
that it's it's really going to be held
937
01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:13.960
to this this uh, this standard. That's very tricky to navigate with it.
938
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:17.119
And so every time we would come
to decisions about coming to America,
939
01:06:17.159 --> 01:06:23.800
because it's the first time I've ever
actually I've usually developed movies or like or
940
01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:26.360
or or written a movie and it
was it was the first time really that
941
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:30.199
I've ever come on to direct something
that had been moving for like probably about
942
01:06:30.199 --> 01:06:38.039
five years or something like that.
And um, and I remember just thinking,
943
01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:41.920
like you would talk to people about, you know, Coming to America's
944
01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:43.960
coming out, and everybody would say
like, well, it's like, is
945
01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:46.239
are the are the barbershop guy is
going to be in it? Are you
946
01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:49.440
know, is um you know Randy
Watson going to be in it? Uh?
947
01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:53.079
They would just constantly come at you
would like, well I better have
948
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:56.159
this, A better have that?
And absolutely, you know, and so
949
01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:02.079
you realize that you're tied to people
want to have that experience again. They
950
01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:05.800
want to see those characters again.
And that's when like I began to kind
951
01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:11.199
of relax a little bit more with
the daunting nature of like doing a sequel
952
01:07:11.199 --> 01:07:13.519
to to something that's so perfect.
It's just going like, you know,
953
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:17.400
I'm not here to replace Coming to
America. I'm here to like make a
954
01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:25.559
movie that everybody can come to have
some fun seeing these characters again and have
955
01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:30.519
a good time. And what was
so strange about it was I I just
956
01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:38.880
couldn't wait for a theatrical experience of
it cut to it's a pandemic. And
957
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:45.119
now the very age group that would
probably lead the ticket sales is my age
958
01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:48.159
group. And and and you're and
and so and and and we're the ones
959
01:07:48.199 --> 01:07:51.480
that are, no matter what,
not going to a movie theater, you
960
01:07:51.519 --> 01:07:57.320
know. And so one day I
get a call that Paramount has now sold
961
01:07:57.360 --> 01:08:03.679
it to Amazon. And Amazon did
this enormous campaign for it. I mean
962
01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:08.800
it was that they were they were
wrapping airplanes and flying flags all over the
963
01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:15.119
world. And so it launched on
a Friday, and and I remember getting
964
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:18.680
this call from Amazon saying, you
gotta get on the phone right now.
965
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:20.960
We're having an emergency meeting. And
I was like, oh damn it,
966
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:25.039
now here we go. What's wrong? And they get us on the phone.
967
01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:30.119
They said we had a thirty day
goal and we we achieved it in
968
01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:34.840
less than eight hours. I mean
viewership, you mean viewership? Yeah,
969
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:39.239
of course, because everybody wanted to
go see that movie, everybody and I
970
01:08:39.319 --> 01:08:42.960
And what I found out was that
like not only were everybody watching it,
971
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:45.600
but then like kind of what Jody
and I were talking about on that day
972
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:49.000
is like, and what we really
want is that see Coming to America is
973
01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:53.880
this movie that's just been playing on
TV and and and actually like some and
974
01:08:54.159 --> 01:08:58.680
and and you know mass TV meeting
like all the swearing had been taken out
975
01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:01.000
of and everything. So you have
kids kind of watching Coming to America.
976
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:05.359
So you had like three generations of
people watching Coming to America during a pandemic
977
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:09.600
where they just wanted to kind of
like have a good time. So people
978
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:13.159
were having watch parties with the people
that they felt comfortable with. And it
979
01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:17.000
was and and for one weekend in
my life, the globe was watching this
980
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:23.199
movie, like the entire world was
just watching it. And so I felt
981
01:09:23.239 --> 01:09:25.720
good about that. I felt I
felt like, Okay, well we had
982
01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:28.680
like a good time with with Coming
to America and we and we had some
983
01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:31.600
good entertainment and we made Amazon's you
know, biggest hit at the at the
984
01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:35.039
time, and uh um, and
then just try to like you know,
985
01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:39.520
keep in mind that there's going to
be haters with it, like like everything.
986
01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:42.319
Like that's why I meant about like
Black Star Wars. It's like it
987
01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:46.640
was it was this thing that people
are so precious with it that um that
988
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:49.600
you're you're you know, you're gonna
get you're gonna get people kind of hating
989
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.840
on things, but I just didn't. I didn't let any of that affect
990
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:58.319
me or anything, and just a
good time. We'll be right back after
991
01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:05.279
a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show. But you
992
01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:09.159
also had a little bit of experience
with that with Footloose, because when you
993
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:12.159
redid foot Loose, I mean,
that's a precious eighties movie. It's like
994
01:10:12.279 --> 01:10:15.880
it is classic. And I remember
because I was in the Ellen screening room
995
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.439
because I was at Ellen that day
for whatever was with my wife, and
996
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:20.319
they're like, hey, you guys
want to watch foot Loose. I'm like
997
01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:25.239
cool, And so we went off
and watched Footloose for two hours and you
998
01:10:25.319 --> 01:10:29.399
came out and the first words you
said were, why would anybody want to
999
01:10:29.399 --> 01:10:32.079
remake foot Loose? Like it's perfect? Like I said the same thing everybody.
1000
01:10:32.439 --> 01:10:34.000
But then you're like, well,
I did this, and I did
1001
01:10:34.039 --> 01:10:36.479
that. It's a little bit different
here and there because but I wouldn't want
1002
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:42.119
to try to remake Footloose. Yeah. Here's so funny about foot loss is
1003
01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:49.119
it actually got It got a lot
of really good reviews, and the audience
1004
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:54.439
scores were always really really high on
it. But I understood people going like,
1005
01:10:55.039 --> 01:10:58.359
why would you, how dare you
remake foot Loose? Because I am
1006
01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:01.760
a huge fan of the original.
But now here's what's kind of interesting,
1007
01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:11.600
Like, within the last couple of
months, Miles Teller became this it's a
1008
01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:17.600
phenomenon on TikTok with thirteen year old
girls. I don't know what Miles did
1009
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:21.880
in I mean, he's been around
for a minute, you know, but
1010
01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:28.399
something happened in this TikTok world where
every one of my daughter's friends are like,
1011
01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:29.960
oh my god, Miles Teller.
And I was like, are you
1012
01:11:30.039 --> 01:11:31.000
talking about Miles? And they were
like, oh my god, Miles Teller
1013
01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:35.840
and they could not get enough of
Miles Teller. And then I started kind
1014
01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:39.720
of like hearing from all my daughter's
friends just going like, yeah, you
1015
01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:42.520
know, Dad, no one ever
watches the original Footloose. And I was
1016
01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:45.279
like, well, that's sad,
because you gotta watch the original Footloose.
1017
01:11:45.319 --> 01:11:48.319
It's the it's it's so when I
grew up on it's what it's it's it's
1018
01:11:48.439 --> 01:11:51.319
Kevin Bacon, it's John Luco,
you know, it's Diane Wee. You
1019
01:11:51.359 --> 01:11:54.520
know, you gotta see it.
They're like, no, but it doesn't
1020
01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:58.000
have Miles in it. It doesn't
have you know. And so Footloose is
1021
01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:02.760
having like this wild naissance right now, and the soundtrack is being sold and
1022
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:10.159
and and it goes back to like
that Kevin Smith bit of advice that I
1023
01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:15.239
still think is the best bit of
advice for every filmmaker, which is every
1024
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:18.960
movie has its day, and it
may not be the day that the studio
1025
01:12:19.079 --> 01:12:23.960
wants it to land on. Like
he has this great conversation that he always
1026
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:27.159
talks about Mall Rats, that like
he made Clerks and then he made Mall
1027
01:12:27.239 --> 01:12:30.800
Rats and not only did nobody come
to see it, but critics always crapped
1028
01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:34.439
on it and everything. And but
but then now he you know, many
1029
01:12:34.479 --> 01:12:38.560
years later, there's these kids that
come up to and just like, oh
1030
01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:41.119
my god, you know you made
Mall Rats and it means so much to
1031
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:44.199
me. And he's like really because
like it was really kind of like a
1032
01:12:44.239 --> 01:12:46.680
thing of pain with me back in
the day. And I know that with
1033
01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:50.239
like Black Saint Moan, and I
felt it like I wish Footloose maybe was
1034
01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:54.680
like a big big hit. It
did, okay, but like you then
1035
01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:59.720
later, like years later, so
you know, something will just kind of
1036
01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:03.439
like connect a sudden, all of
a sudden, and so I'm very I'm
1037
01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:12.119
I'm very very happy about about all
of my daughter's friends like they That's the
1038
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:15.000
poster I'm signing. I'm not signing
Hustle and Flow. I'm signing my remake
1039
01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:20.680
of Footlots, which I find hilarious. It's amazing how this world works sometimes,
1040
01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:24.119
my friend, it's really amazing.
Now I'm gonna ask you a few
1041
01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:28.279
questions, ask all my guests.
What advice would you give a filmmaker wanting
1042
01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:32.520
to break into the business today.
I mean, I'll tell you the hardest
1043
01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:39.000
thing, um is. I mean, first and foremost, the hard thing
1044
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.399
that we all just struggle with,
which is truly like a discipline, like
1045
01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:46.560
to to to every day. Treat
it like it's a job, even though
1046
01:13:46.600 --> 01:13:51.239
no one's paying you, um to. How can I learn more about the
1047
01:13:51.279 --> 01:13:56.640
business? How can I you know? I think you should read trades if
1048
01:13:56.680 --> 01:14:00.239
it helps you know who to go
to. Um. You don't want to
1049
01:14:00.239 --> 01:14:06.680
pitch all your movies to one place
this place. May you know today a
1050
01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:12.479
twenty four is going to want to
hear one pitch and fuck Searchlight may want
1051
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.000
to hear something else, like you
need to know where you're going, and
1052
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:17.159
sometimes that means like really being informed, reading as much as you can,
1053
01:14:18.119 --> 01:14:20.840
and writing every day if writing is
a part of your world, which I
1054
01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:24.119
think it should be, because I
think if you really want to break into
1055
01:14:24.119 --> 01:14:26.840
the business, you got to write
your way in. That's the that's the
1056
01:14:26.920 --> 01:14:30.840
leverage that you have, and it
also just informs you as a director.
1057
01:14:30.880 --> 01:14:39.119
You you learn about storytelling more through
writing as well as directing. Um.
1058
01:14:40.359 --> 01:14:45.159
But really, like the hard one, the really bit of hard advice is
1059
01:14:46.319 --> 01:14:51.600
do you really know who you are
yet? And I think for young filmmakers
1060
01:14:51.640 --> 01:14:57.520
that's always a little bit nerve racking, you know. And what I usually
1061
01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:02.239
do is I'll show them like,
um, you know Spike LEAs, you
1062
01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:10.880
know we cut heads, right,
I'll show um Sophia Coppola's short film Lick
1063
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:16.600
the Star, right, and then
I'll show following by Christopher Nolan, and
1064
01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:25.600
I'll or Pie from Baron Aronovski right, and just ask questions of like can
1065
01:15:25.720 --> 01:15:30.520
you see their later films here?
And usually you can, you know,
1066
01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:35.159
I mean, even that fifteen minute
short that Sofia Coppola made with these girls
1067
01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:40.960
in high school where they've got the
star on their you know that they've drawn
1068
01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:43.800
on their their hand and they say
lick the star and it's like the girl
1069
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:45.680
says, what does that and she's
like, oh, it means kill the
1070
01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:49.640
rats, you know, backwards.
But she had like cool pop and punk
1071
01:15:49.720 --> 01:15:53.920
music in it. It was fashion
forward. You saw that. You saw
1072
01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:57.680
like if you turn the lights out
on Sofia Coppola after that short, you
1073
01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:00.840
could go like, oh, she's
into fashion. She's into this particular type
1074
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:04.319
of music. She's into this dynamic
of narrative. And I think that's hard
1075
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:10.279
for young people who are hungry to
get into the business to allow themselves the
1076
01:16:10.399 --> 01:16:17.239
time and the effort to find what
those elements in themselves are. You look
1077
01:16:17.239 --> 01:16:20.039
at an Ariaster movie and you go
like, oh, I think I know
1078
01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:27.399
this is an Riaster movie, right, But that's him finding it, you
1079
01:16:27.439 --> 01:16:31.319
know what I mean. And I
think that the mistake a lot of young
1080
01:16:31.359 --> 01:16:33.880
people make, and what I mean
by young is not necessarily young, but
1081
01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:39.199
like young in the business trying to
get into it is they want to get
1082
01:16:39.239 --> 01:16:41.439
in and get paid, you know, they want to get in and get
1083
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:45.800
financed. And I sometimes say like, do you because you know, really
1084
01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:49.840
the best way to be a filmmaker
is to step in crap every once in
1085
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:54.039
a while, and that's when you
learn, and you don't want to be
1086
01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:58.640
doing that with like a bunch of
money hanging over you, where this town
1087
01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:02.119
may say like, hey, we
shouldn't have hired that person. You need
1088
01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:06.680
to make some crap, And that's
the where the flowers grow out of,
1089
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:10.479
you know, and that's where you
learn like, oh, okay, you
1090
01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:14.720
know what, I think, I
don't really do these wonders that I'm seeing
1091
01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:17.319
and all these things. Oh you
know what, I think that maybe slow
1092
01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:20.079
motion isn't my thing. I mean, I know that's cool in that action
1093
01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:24.880
moment that I saw on like three
movies that I wanted to copy. But
1094
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:29.000
maybe my thing is this thing that
I do and and I think that that's
1095
01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:32.760
that's the biggest bit of advice I'd
give to somebody, because that doesn't require
1096
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:36.920
people giving you a bunch of money
and you knocking on doors. That may
1097
01:17:36.920 --> 01:17:40.960
be you going like, okay,
well, what are the movies that I
1098
01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:45.640
feel like army and what is my
life experience about and what are the what
1099
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:47.840
are the stories that I feel that
I want to be that I want to
1100
01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:51.199
tell and like kind of like my
dad dying. I think that's why that's
1101
01:17:51.199 --> 01:17:55.680
why that movie was so important to
me, is that is that for the
1102
01:17:55.720 --> 01:17:59.279
first time I was thinking about,
Okay, well, what if this is
1103
01:17:59.319 --> 01:18:03.239
my last movie, not my first, it would be my first and last
1104
01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:06.960
movie. So what do I want
like my son to know about me from
1105
01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:11.720
this movie? What's the soundtrack of
it? What's the look, what's the
1106
01:18:11.800 --> 01:18:14.600
where's the heart and soul of this
movie? And where does it land?
1107
01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:19.960
And And I think that that that
is something that people can figure out without
1108
01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:26.399
some sort of like door opening for
them into Hollywood, and they'll respect that
1109
01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:29.720
you more if you know who you
are once you get into the business.
1110
01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:33.239
Very much, so very very much. So. Um, what is the
1111
01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:35.760
lesson that took you the longest to
learn, whether in the film, Biggestiness
1112
01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:45.520
or life that uh that uh,
this too shall pass? Um. You
1113
01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:50.159
know it's just hard, you know. Uh, you you experience something,
1114
01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:56.720
uh and it's it's harmful to you
on that day, and you just think
1115
01:18:56.720 --> 01:19:01.479
that you're done and you're destroyed.
It's all and and and you've you know,
1116
01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:04.920
the gig is up. They know
you're a fraud, you know,
1117
01:19:05.960 --> 01:19:10.039
And that's a given, isn't it. Though, isn't it. We don't
1118
01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:12.920
we always think we're a fraud.
I mean every absolutely, if you're a
1119
01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:15.359
good artist, you do we're making
make believe. How can we not feel
1120
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:20.520
like a fraud? But but I
think that that um, uh, you
1121
01:19:20.600 --> 01:19:27.600
know, I'm lucky that like Hustle
and Flow is right when Twitter was happening,
1122
01:19:27.600 --> 01:19:30.920
But it wasn't at the point of
Twitter where people could like crap on
1123
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:34.680
you with such virtuosity as it's done
today and with anonymity to some extent.
1124
01:19:35.159 --> 01:19:41.199
And I think that, uh,
that that really Like now I'm finding like,
1125
01:19:41.279 --> 01:19:43.479
no, no, no, I'm
I'm I'm good. I'm gonna move
1126
01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:49.159
onto the onto the next I saw
um a documentary on the on the Stage
1127
01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:53.960
director Help Prince and and and he
does something that I was like, oh,
1128
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:56.920
I'm doing that, which is on
his opening night of his musicals,
1129
01:19:57.520 --> 01:20:02.319
which is on a Friday, UM
schedules a breakfast the following Saturday with his
1130
01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:09.039
collaborators to discuss his next show.
We'll be right back after a word from
1131
01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:18.359
our sponsor, and now back to
the show. And I was like that
1132
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:23.359
that's a mac move, because that
that shows you that you are in the
1133
01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:29.199
you are in the flow of being
a creator and your worth is not completely
1134
01:20:29.239 --> 01:20:32.000
based on the success or failure of
what you just made. You're in an
1135
01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:36.039
arc that is going beyond, that
is going over decades. You're not in
1136
01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:40.920
an arc that's going over a weekend
and whether or not people are going to
1137
01:20:40.920 --> 01:20:45.479
go see your movie or go see
your show. And I think that that's
1138
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:47.840
that's probably the one that as I
as I come into my fifties is like,
1139
01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:53.079
you know what, that I'm a
little bit better with handling. Okay,
1140
01:20:53.119 --> 01:20:57.800
now I gotta I gotta deal with
judgment and opinions that seem to be
1141
01:20:58.119 --> 01:21:02.000
everywhere. Oh yeah, oh kayh. And toughest question of all three of
1142
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:12.279
your favorite films of all time?
Well, I know my favorite, which
1143
01:21:12.319 --> 01:21:16.399
is Purple Rain. Oh so good
Purple Rain. I mean, I really
1144
01:21:16.760 --> 01:21:23.399
think that Purple Rain for me has
now surpassed Star Wars and Raiders in viewing,
1145
01:21:23.640 --> 01:21:28.159
meaning I usually show it to my
casting crew before I start a picture.
1146
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:34.359
I do tutorials sometimes on the first
eight minutes of Purple Rain. I
1147
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:41.359
think the first eight minutes of Purple
Rain is brilliant. It's all set to
1148
01:21:41.439 --> 01:21:45.479
let's go crazy this extended version,
but you get you really know who your
1149
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:47.319
protagonists. You know that there's going
to be a love story, you know
1150
01:21:47.399 --> 01:21:50.720
that Morest Day is going to be
a villain. You know how everybody feels,
1151
01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:54.520
and you kind of even know what
everybody wants. And the music never
1152
01:21:54.520 --> 01:21:59.000
stops. But but the editing and
the and the visuals that you see,
1153
01:21:59.039 --> 01:22:03.399
I think like three tongues within the
first minute, Like you know that sex
1154
01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:05.079
is going to be a part of
this. And it's kind of got this
1155
01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:11.000
interesting look with these very like quick
little shots of just people in a frozen
1156
01:22:11.079 --> 01:22:15.479
state, like they're not freeze frame. But it's just so creative and inventive.
1157
01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:18.760
And I know that people go like, oh, Greig, like the
1158
01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:20.640
acting and all, and I was
like, yeah, but it's kind of
1159
01:22:20.720 --> 01:22:27.039
largely let's kind of it's kind of
opera, you know, and and and
1160
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:30.079
you've got to just kind of like
go into it with that opera feel.
1161
01:22:30.680 --> 01:22:32.479
So if I were like on a
desert island, it would definitely have to
1162
01:22:32.479 --> 01:22:40.039
be purple rain. But um,
I I still think that Godfather is just
1163
01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:45.520
it's it's hard to deny that those
themes of family and how much you're going
1164
01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:51.680
to sell your soul um to uh, you know, to to um,
1165
01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:58.600
to to protect your family and to
thrive. Uh, those themes are just
1166
01:22:58.640 --> 01:23:01.359
so universal, you know, and
they and I showed it to my daughter
1167
01:23:01.399 --> 01:23:05.159
recently and she loved it and I
was like, man, that's just that
1168
01:23:05.279 --> 01:23:10.960
it's it's funny that this movie still
can can move people. And then the
1169
01:23:12.359 --> 01:23:16.560
third one is um. John Sales
made a movie called Mate jan It is
1170
01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:21.479
just a perfect movie that I really
try to urge as many people to see
1171
01:23:21.560 --> 01:23:27.560
and that I can. And I
had a great, great honor to be
1172
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:30.079
able to work with James Earl Jones, where I got to tell him how
1173
01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:34.039
much his character A Few Clothes meant
to me when I was a young man
1174
01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:38.960
and his mom. He has a
great monologue and it that begins with him
1175
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:43.319
saying, you shut your mouth,
peckle Wood. Yes, it's just the
1176
01:23:43.359 --> 01:23:48.479
best best delivery of just smacking down
some white haycy that's calling him you know,
1177
01:23:48.479 --> 01:23:53.319
that's being a racist, and it's
just power. But and it's like,
1178
01:23:53.520 --> 01:23:56.359
you know, Chris Cooper's like I
think it's his first movie really and
1179
01:23:56.760 --> 01:24:00.199
you know, uh, so many
people in it that I just wonderful.
1180
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:02.399
But those are my three. And
I'll tell you when I had John on
1181
01:24:02.399 --> 01:24:06.840
the show, and it was like
having a masterclass listening to him talk about
1182
01:24:06.920 --> 01:24:13.000
story and directing, and he gives
some of the best directing advice. Oh
1183
01:24:13.079 --> 01:24:17.840
God, like he would just just
a beautiful little little little tweaks, just
1184
01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:21.159
little nuggets that you just go,
oh, that would be you know what,
1185
01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:24.279
I'm doing that next time. Oh, I'm doing that next time.
1186
01:24:24.439 --> 01:24:28.039
Oh. It's so funny how film
film people, and especially film directors,
1187
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:32.319
we still just need to collect all
those those little gems we you know.
1188
01:24:32.439 --> 01:24:35.279
And and the one thing that I
always try to urge, you know,
1189
01:24:35.399 --> 01:24:40.399
the the newer crop of of centophiles
that are coming. I was like,
1190
01:24:40.399 --> 01:24:43.600
you know, you gotta look back. You know, it's gotten glad.
1191
01:24:43.640 --> 01:24:46.720
I'm glad that you you love you
know, I know that that you think
1192
01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:53.199
that Dark Knight is a classic film
in a And I'm not saying it's not
1193
01:24:53.760 --> 01:24:58.000
ro Roger. I'm not saying it's
not it's I love Dark Knight. But
1194
01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:00.600
but actually, um, I'm show
you this movie called Heat. Oh don't
1195
01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:04.359
you read in my mind? You
know. And by the way, there's
1196
01:25:04.359 --> 01:25:06.720
probably plenty of people that will be
like, Okay, but I'm gonna now
1197
01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:13.319
show you this movie Craig, we're
fiefee like or thief right or thief which
1198
01:25:13.359 --> 01:25:15.960
is so I just watched that recently. But but yeah, it's like it's
1199
01:25:16.159 --> 01:25:19.600
endless how much cinema there is that
we have to learn from. That's just
1200
01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:26.119
further back then then necessarily what is
what is now? You know? And
1201
01:25:26.319 --> 01:25:30.399
uh and and I would love to
have been in the room with John Sales
1202
01:25:30.720 --> 01:25:32.279
and learn all that. I mean, no, it's it's well, you
1203
01:25:32.279 --> 01:25:34.319
could watch it at anytime. I'll
send you a link. It's it's just
1204
01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:39.560
a it's a ninety minute tour the
force of him talking about Loan Star,
1205
01:25:39.680 --> 01:25:42.359
how he did the one er in
Lone Star, like you know, just
1206
01:25:42.800 --> 01:25:45.720
the scene switched midway. I'm like, John, how did you do that?
1207
01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:46.479
And he's like, wow, oh, well we had this guy and
1208
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:49.680
they fell down and jumped out of
this because it's just in the one shot.
1209
01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:53.680
It just is a transition of like
you know, three decades or something
1210
01:25:53.720 --> 01:25:56.680
like that. And and I'm like, how'd you do that? Because it
1211
01:25:56.720 --> 01:25:59.119
was low budget, there was no
CG. And he's like, oh,
1212
01:25:59.159 --> 01:26:00.920
yeah, well did this and then
we had the guy run around and he
1213
01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:03.399
did that. I'm like, oh, and I'm not sure it was John
1214
01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:05.640
Wood told me this, but I've
read I heard this somewhere. It's like
1215
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:11.479
when you when you just about the
yell cut hold on for three more seconds,
1216
01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:15.399
you know what. I learned that
from editing my own movie, because
1217
01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:18.680
you want to and and it just
takes one time for you to learn it.
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01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:23.119
And that is like I wanted to
just do a really slow dissolve,
1219
01:26:24.079 --> 01:26:28.520
but I noticed that like I had
somebody holding anim holding the thought. And
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01:26:28.560 --> 01:26:31.319
then you could see as the slow
dissolve was happening, you could see them
1221
01:26:31.319 --> 01:26:36.239
go like like they you I called
cut two soon right, And you just
1222
01:26:36.279 --> 01:26:40.119
never know what they'll do too.
Sometimes it's just a little magic happens.
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01:26:40.159 --> 01:26:42.720
You leave that time for the magic. Greig. I could keep talking to
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01:26:42.760 --> 01:26:45.319
you for hours. Brother. I
appreciate you having this conversation with us,
1225
01:26:45.319 --> 01:26:50.479
and hopefully it helps some young cinophiles
coming up behind us. So I truly
1226
01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:54.880
appreciate you and thank you for all
the amazing work you've done and continue.
1227
01:26:54.920 --> 01:26:56.680
I can't wait to see where you
come up with next. My friend,
1228
01:26:56.720 --> 01:26:58.800
Oh, thanks so much, it
was great great to be on with you
1229
01:26:58.840 --> 01:27:01.640
today. I want to thank Craig
so much for coming on the show and
1230
01:27:01.920 --> 01:27:05.399
sharing his knowledge bombs with all of
the tribe. Thank you so much,
1231
01:27:05.520 --> 01:27:08.800
Craig. If you want to get
links to anything we spoke about in this
1232
01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:13.199
episode, head over to the show
notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Ford
1233
01:27:13.239 --> 01:27:15.439
Slash two eighty nine. Thank you
so much for listening, guys, As
1234
01:27:15.439 --> 01:27:18.920
always, keep on writing no matter
what. I'll talk to you soon.
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01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:25.680
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting
podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.