1
00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:02,640
John Summers is the motoring historian.
2
00:00:02,820 --> 00:00:07,650
He was a company car thrashing technology
sales rep that turned into a fairly inept
3
00:00:07,650 --> 00:00:10,110
sports bike rider hailing from California.
4
00:00:10,140 --> 00:00:12,930
He collects cars and bikes
built with plenty of cheap and
5
00:00:12,930 --> 00:00:14,850
fast and not much reliable.
6
00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:18,600
On his show, he gets together with
various co-hosts to talk about new
7
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,250
and old cars driving motorbikes,
motor racing, and motoring travel.
8
00:00:35,275 --> 00:00:36,045
Good day.
9
00:00:36,195 --> 00:00:37,800
Good morning, good afternoon.
10
00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:40,050
It is John Summers the motoring historian.
11
00:00:40,455 --> 00:00:47,355
Scalable digital twins for
software defined vehicles.
12
00:00:47,565 --> 00:00:48,735
What does that even mean?
13
00:00:48,735 --> 00:00:51,975
You might say, and if you've
not been listening to these ones
14
00:00:51,975 --> 00:00:54,705
that I've done that are about
the software defined car or.
15
00:00:55,300 --> 00:00:57,010
AI State of the nation.
16
00:00:57,250 --> 00:01:01,810
This is kind of A-T-L-D-R on those,
or a bit of a bolt on onto those.
17
00:01:01,810 --> 00:01:06,610
It's the same speaker series that I've
been to down there in, uh, in Silicon
18
00:01:06,610 --> 00:01:11,410
Valley, organized by the Society of
Automotive Engineers and Dr. Beaker.
19
00:01:11,650 --> 00:01:12,580
So thank you again.
20
00:01:12,580 --> 00:01:18,190
Spend for inviting me the speaker,
this time with these guys remote labs.
21
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,100
I mean, I'll add the link and, and so
on, so you can have a, have a little look
22
00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:24,320
at who they are and and what they do.
23
00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:29,330
But, but fundamentally, all of the
speakers in this series have been people
24
00:01:29,330 --> 00:01:35,720
who, organizations, companies that are
involved in, you know, the building blocks
25
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,150
of the new software defined vehicle.
26
00:01:38,150 --> 00:01:40,905
And I think the software
defined vehicle is the end of.
27
00:01:41,475 --> 00:01:45,975
Cars as being something that's about
freedom, and it's the beginning of
28
00:01:45,975 --> 00:01:49,815
being something which is as, uh, the
McKinsey guy said in a, the software
29
00:01:49,815 --> 00:01:51,705
defined car presentation that I went to.
30
00:01:51,705 --> 00:01:54,975
It makes the car an edge of cloud device.
31
00:01:54,975 --> 00:01:56,505
It makes it like your phone.
32
00:01:56,745 --> 00:01:59,565
It means that there's some
compute on your phone, you know,
33
00:01:59,565 --> 00:02:01,155
you can download stuff to it.
34
00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:04,995
There's some computing power on it,
but most of your phone's functionality
35
00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:08,025
comes via its connectivity to the cloud.
36
00:02:08,134 --> 00:02:14,704
And the wonderful engineering integrity
that tomorrow's cars are gonna have,
37
00:02:14,975 --> 00:02:17,674
that's going to come from the cloud.
38
00:02:17,674 --> 00:02:21,695
It's not gonna come from the piece of
hardware that's sitting on your driveway.
39
00:02:21,695 --> 00:02:26,855
So if you think of it a hundred years
ago, Fred and Orie, Dusenberg created
40
00:02:26,855 --> 00:02:28,954
the very best machine they could.
41
00:02:29,195 --> 00:02:33,305
And when you drove it off the
forecourt, it was yours completely.
42
00:02:33,695 --> 00:02:34,535
It was yours.
43
00:02:34,535 --> 00:02:36,334
It was your domain.
44
00:02:36,605 --> 00:02:37,325
Now.
45
00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:38,700
It's not, is it?
46
00:02:38,970 --> 00:02:40,590
I mean, you might pay for it.
47
00:02:40,620 --> 00:02:42,720
You probably don't even own it outright.
48
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,160
You're probably leasing it, but
even if you do pay for it outright.
49
00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:51,750
What we're now talking about
is over the airwaves upgrades.
50
00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:56,190
You know, the, you are a light at
night sleeping and you know, your Tesla
51
00:02:56,490 --> 00:03:00,450
gets an upgrade so it can recharge
its batteries that much faster.
52
00:03:00,450 --> 00:03:04,200
This is the world of the 21st century.
53
00:03:04,590 --> 00:03:05,430
Oh yes.
54
00:03:05,430 --> 00:03:06,840
So it means that the car that you.
55
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,500
Off the driveway in the morning is
actually not the same as the one that
56
00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,760
you parked in the driveway the night
before and you don't have any idea
57
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,730
what changes may have been made to it.
58
00:03:19,730 --> 00:03:25,340
So I don't want to be all dystopian about
over the airwaves upgrades, but fuck's
59
00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:28,130
sake, just gimme the keys and let me go.
60
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:28,765
It's about freedom.
61
00:03:29,435 --> 00:03:30,454
It's about freedom.
62
00:03:30,725 --> 00:03:33,965
It's not about a connected device.
63
00:03:34,025 --> 00:03:38,765
And I'm sorry, sir, I can't, I'm sorry,
sir. You're gonna have to go through
64
00:03:38,765 --> 00:03:42,935
the touch screen and I'm, I'm sorry sir,
are you sure you want to shut me down?
65
00:03:42,935 --> 00:03:43,204
Yes.
66
00:03:43,204 --> 00:03:48,065
I'm really, I'm sure I want to shut
you down and flush you down the loo
67
00:03:48,065 --> 00:03:53,600
any car that makes me wanna communicate
with it through the touch screen.
68
00:03:54,125 --> 00:03:56,135
I know Tesla are big into this, right?
69
00:03:56,225 --> 00:03:59,285
I've not really experienced
a car that's got it.
70
00:03:59,285 --> 00:04:03,095
Of course, it's much cheaper if
you can just have a button on a, in
71
00:04:03,095 --> 00:04:06,484
a piece of software than a button
on a real dashboard, isn't it?
72
00:04:06,484 --> 00:04:08,255
So that's clearly the thinking behind it.
73
00:04:08,255 --> 00:04:09,935
Oh, the design's so clean.
74
00:04:09,995 --> 00:04:12,965
The Tesla will tell me,
I say balls to that.
75
00:04:13,234 --> 00:04:14,750
It's all about making it cheap.
76
00:04:15,495 --> 00:04:16,695
A furious driving.
77
00:04:16,695 --> 00:04:22,125
A YouTuber who I follow recently reviewed
a Geely, which is being sold in Britain.
78
00:04:22,125 --> 00:04:26,175
Of course it's being sold a great price,
tons of content, but everything has
79
00:04:26,175 --> 00:04:31,664
to be run through the screen and, and
I was amused that as he was trying to
80
00:04:31,664 --> 00:04:36,675
like toggle to turn off the annoying
lane assist thing that was trying to put
81
00:04:36,675 --> 00:04:40,125
him into the hedge of the country road
that he was driving along as he was.
82
00:04:40,260 --> 00:04:42,090
Toggling to try and turn that off.
83
00:04:42,090 --> 00:04:44,820
The car was getting crossed
with him because it detected
84
00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:46,620
his eyes weren't on the road.
85
00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:50,909
I'm just like, you machines
can all get in the fucking sea.
86
00:04:51,659 --> 00:04:53,940
You can all get in the sea, right?
87
00:04:53,940 --> 00:04:57,060
The car just needs to do what
you tell it to like a hammer.
88
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,890
You tell it go, it goes.
89
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,640
I actually think I wrote an
article about this some years ago.
90
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,830
I actually think the cusp for this change
was in the eighties and the nineties.
91
00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:12,930
So in other words, you know, my,
uh, 95 Mustang with no a, b, s and
92
00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:15,360
no traction control free as a bird.
93
00:05:15,820 --> 00:05:17,440
Wrap around a lamppost if you want.
94
00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:18,610
It's not gonna stop you.
95
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:22,420
The oh one car that I have, although his
characters completely the same, feels
96
00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:28,120
exactly the same to drive the A BS and
the traction control mean that there
97
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,390
is a committee of electronic nannies.
98
00:05:32,305 --> 00:05:35,845
And I'll attribute that to Jeremy
Clarkson, that's how he described it.
99
00:05:36,145 --> 00:05:41,425
A committee of electronic nannies
that have to approve what you
100
00:05:41,425 --> 00:05:42,625
are doing before it happens.
101
00:05:42,625 --> 00:05:45,325
You push the throttle and the
car's like, Hmm, let me see,
102
00:05:45,325 --> 00:05:46,705
is there gravel on the road?
103
00:05:46,885 --> 00:05:48,025
Oh, you've got a live axle.
104
00:05:48,055 --> 00:05:49,345
What might No.
105
00:05:49,345 --> 00:05:49,705
Right.
106
00:05:49,825 --> 00:05:51,685
No, that's not free.
107
00:05:55,795 --> 00:06:02,305
But anyway, I didn't sit down and do
this recording to get up on my fuck
108
00:06:02,305 --> 00:06:04,555
the software defined car soapbox.
109
00:06:04,585 --> 00:06:06,235
No, I didn't do that at all.
110
00:06:06,235 --> 00:06:06,415
No.
111
00:06:06,625 --> 00:06:12,265
I hit the record button here so that we
can all know exactly what stage we're at.
112
00:06:12,325 --> 00:06:16,885
Blow by blow as driving
is being de invented.
113
00:06:16,885 --> 00:06:21,565
So scalable digital twins for
software defined vehicles.
114
00:06:21,565 --> 00:06:24,370
What in the actual F does that mean?
115
00:06:25,030 --> 00:06:31,360
What it means is these guys remote
labs, have a software product or
116
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:39,220
a suite of software products which
replicate in a virtual form components,
117
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,590
which haven't yet been developed.
118
00:06:41,590 --> 00:06:45,160
So let's say that it's your job
to develop the suspension system
119
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,410
for the new pulse star, whatever.
120
00:06:47,789 --> 00:06:51,450
And in order for you to develop
the suspension system, you have
121
00:06:51,450 --> 00:06:52,830
to know what the brakes look like.
122
00:06:52,950 --> 00:06:57,750
But the brake guys haven't yet
designed their brake rotor, so you
123
00:06:57,750 --> 00:06:59,489
can't do any engineering around it.
124
00:06:59,789 --> 00:07:02,825
So what this leads to in
traditional car development.
125
00:07:03,225 --> 00:07:07,605
Is, you know, if it takes five years to
develop the car, like halfway through year
126
00:07:07,605 --> 00:07:11,865
four, everyone finishes what they're doing
and then you have what they're calling
127
00:07:12,195 --> 00:07:17,745
integration hell, where you guess that
the brake rotor was gonna be one size and
128
00:07:17,745 --> 00:07:23,175
actually it's a different size from that,
and now you solution for the suspension
129
00:07:23,445 --> 00:07:25,630
doesn't work properly, except it's not.
130
00:07:25,955 --> 00:07:30,544
Physical components that we are waiting
on here, is it, it's not, it's not like,
131
00:07:30,544 --> 00:07:33,275
oh, we're waiting for Brembo to cast us.
132
00:07:33,275 --> 00:07:33,844
The brakes.
133
00:07:33,844 --> 00:07:35,104
Like what are they gonna do us?
134
00:07:35,104 --> 00:07:36,664
Those new chuff D rotors?
135
00:07:36,664 --> 00:07:38,195
No, no, it's not that.
136
00:07:38,585 --> 00:07:40,760
And that's perhaps what was
most depressing about this.
137
00:07:41,195 --> 00:07:44,255
Presentation, although it was the,
although we talked about cars the
138
00:07:44,255 --> 00:07:48,365
whole time, we weren't talking
about actual cars and engineering.
139
00:07:48,425 --> 00:07:52,025
We weren't talking about the traditional
stuff of automotive engineering.
140
00:07:52,265 --> 00:07:56,435
We were talking about software, and that's
really what we're talking about here.
141
00:07:56,435 --> 00:08:02,255
That until the body control people have
written their software properly, the
142
00:08:02,585 --> 00:08:07,505
HVAC entertainment people can't write
their piece of, of software properly.
143
00:08:10,335 --> 00:08:16,364
So remote if labs, what we are
creating is, uh, virtual bits of
144
00:08:16,364 --> 00:08:18,375
infrastructure to allow testing.
145
00:08:18,614 --> 00:08:22,815
What this means is that testing can
take place much sooner in the cycle.
146
00:08:23,145 --> 00:08:26,715
So they have this cool little graphic,
which basically, you know, you look at
147
00:08:26,715 --> 00:08:29,385
the graphic and you understand completely
what it is they're doing, is that they've
148
00:08:29,385 --> 00:08:33,824
got all these like silos and all of
the silos are working independently
149
00:08:34,064 --> 00:08:35,985
to go and create the final car.
150
00:08:36,319 --> 00:08:37,939
And this leads to this integration.
151
00:08:37,939 --> 00:08:43,280
Hell, well now, because everyone can
virtualize what each other are doing, the
152
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,290
integration takes place at the beginning.
153
00:08:45,650 --> 00:08:50,689
So their integration is super smooth,
and they had like a red, jagged graph
154
00:08:50,689 --> 00:08:52,880
and then a nice smooth green one.
155
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,859
They were, they were Swedish by the way.
156
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,819
Um, two sort of middle-aged
guys, but both of them.
157
00:08:59,045 --> 00:09:06,245
Looking very valley on brand, I would say
so, although my age older than than me.
158
00:09:06,545 --> 00:09:11,824
Um, they were t-shirts and, and they
were trendy genie kind of trousers and,
159
00:09:11,824 --> 00:09:14,765
you know, flat canvassy kind of shoes.
160
00:09:14,765 --> 00:09:18,579
You know, these dudes, you know, you
wouldn't confuse this guy with the CEO
161
00:09:18,579 --> 00:09:20,405
with British Steel, you know what I mean?
162
00:09:20,405 --> 00:09:20,740
These are not.
163
00:09:21,235 --> 00:09:26,695
The traditional people who you would see
as suppliers to the automotive industry,
164
00:09:26,695 --> 00:09:32,815
although they do very much fit in with,
you know, the way that valley people walk
165
00:09:32,815 --> 00:09:37,165
and talk, and valley people and all of the
car makers have a presence in the valley.
166
00:09:37,165 --> 00:09:41,875
And all of these software defined
car efforts are, are led by Valley
167
00:09:41,875 --> 00:09:43,945
people with this kind of Palo Alto.
168
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:44,880
Aesthetic.
169
00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:49,650
I wrote, what is being pitched here
is integration testing the path to
170
00:09:49,650 --> 00:09:52,650
a product with over the airwaves.
171
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:55,800
Upgrades is shorter and smoother.
172
00:09:55,980 --> 00:09:58,860
So I also wrote down that this
isn't car way development.
173
00:09:58,860 --> 00:09:59,430
It, it's about.
174
00:10:00,165 --> 00:10:06,555
Management of a software stack,
the it's ECMs, it's GPUs, it's the
175
00:10:06,765 --> 00:10:10,545
stuff that Nvidia hasn't bought
because you know the crypto miners
176
00:10:10,545 --> 00:10:12,135
have got it instead, kind of thing.
177
00:10:12,375 --> 00:10:17,415
It's those kind of products that
we are needing to virtualize.
178
00:10:17,474 --> 00:10:22,094
It is not the sort of suspension and brake
components, which I was thinking about.
179
00:10:22,094 --> 00:10:23,625
And in fact, at no point.
180
00:10:23,910 --> 00:10:28,500
In the presentation, did we talk
about anything but might be considered
181
00:10:28,770 --> 00:10:33,660
traditional automotive engineering, and
I really need to have you sort of stop.
182
00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:40,410
And let that sink in to see how completely
the car has become a mobile phone.
183
00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:43,800
Because even the suspension and
the brakes, all of that shit can
184
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,020
be controlled by the brain, right?
185
00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:50,219
So if you want the car to have better
suspension, well it can just move the
186
00:10:50,430 --> 00:10:51,839
active ride, you know, different way.
187
00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:55,110
And that's how the direction
in in which we're going here.
188
00:10:56,189 --> 00:11:01,140
Not only are we not talking about those
suspension and break and those kind
189
00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:04,380
of traditional automotive components,
not only are we not talking about
190
00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:10,500
them for examples, those things
are rather like nuts and bolts.
191
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:15,449
Now, the design of them, it hasn't been
perfected, but the design of them is
192
00:11:15,449 --> 00:11:20,040
sufficiently well understood that we
know that if we want of a particular
193
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,260
high quality, we have to pay for an
extra kind of alloy and we have to.
194
00:11:25,870 --> 00:11:29,530
Pay for it to be machined in a
certain way, to have a nice flange
195
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,570
on it and to have a hex head on it.
196
00:11:31,570 --> 00:11:34,930
Whereas if we don't care, we could
just rattle 'em out like they do
197
00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:40,570
carpentry nails where they're just
cast out of pig iron and they bend.
198
00:11:40,570 --> 00:11:41,020
So what?
199
00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:43,480
You just chuck it away and
have another kind of thing.
200
00:11:43,930 --> 00:11:51,040
So that's a sea change
that it's the end of cars.
201
00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:54,180
As we've known them in
the 20th century, right?
202
00:11:54,180 --> 00:12:00,900
It's the end of there actually being
something to talk about around the
203
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:05,340
business of motivating the card
down the road and allowing it to
204
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,890
negotiate bumps better or be easier
to repair or all, all of that stuff.
205
00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:15,690
None of that was remotely
considered by these guys.
206
00:12:16,574 --> 00:12:20,505
In this presentation, it's
all about integration of
207
00:12:20,564 --> 00:12:21,854
different software products.
208
00:12:22,035 --> 00:12:24,229
So of course what it means is that.
209
00:12:24,915 --> 00:12:32,445
Testing in future is gonna involve a
blend of actual components and virtual
210
00:12:32,445 --> 00:12:38,895
components, and I've been unable
to shake this thought at the, since
211
00:12:38,895 --> 00:12:42,495
the, in the day since I went to the
presentation that the morning before I
212
00:12:42,495 --> 00:12:47,355
entered the presentation, I was chatting
with somebody about the Mary Rose.
213
00:12:47,589 --> 00:12:50,860
If you are English, you'll
know what the Mary Rose is.
214
00:12:50,860 --> 00:12:52,000
If you're not, you won't.
215
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:55,719
It was King Henry VII's,
top quality warship.
216
00:12:55,870 --> 00:12:59,980
You know, it was the weapon of mass
destruction of the day, and as with so
217
00:12:59,980 --> 00:13:05,260
many of things, it had a Titanic like
sinking experience because it's made
218
00:13:05,260 --> 00:13:06,730
of wood, so it rotted away, right?
219
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:07,030
Anyway.
220
00:13:07,935 --> 00:13:10,574
Docks in Southampton.
221
00:13:10,574 --> 00:13:15,285
Portsmouth got a new display and the
historian that I was chatting to had
222
00:13:15,285 --> 00:13:19,875
recently been to it, and he talked
about how it was awesome because
223
00:13:20,084 --> 00:13:24,614
what they'd done was they'd taken
things that were really there, like
224
00:13:24,675 --> 00:13:31,694
pewter vases, and then put black
plastic where the handle had been.
225
00:13:31,814 --> 00:13:34,875
If the handle had gone broken off,
they put black plastic on there so
226
00:13:34,875 --> 00:13:36,140
you could see what was original.
227
00:13:36,795 --> 00:13:41,745
And you could see what they modeled
so that you could see what this
228
00:13:41,745 --> 00:13:45,915
thing looked like actually in context
rather than it just being a crappy
229
00:13:45,915 --> 00:13:47,925
piece of meaningless broken pottery.
230
00:13:48,045 --> 00:13:50,565
As students used to say to me
when we walked around the forum,
231
00:13:50,715 --> 00:13:51,900
what's this building site?
232
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:53,359
Yeah, exactly.
233
00:13:53,359 --> 00:13:54,949
What's this construction zone?
234
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:59,569
That's what the forum looks like because
it's just a piece of broken pottery.
235
00:13:59,750 --> 00:14:05,930
They've not thought to contextualize it
within its place, not just on a table,
236
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:12,650
not just in a vase, on a table, but on
the Merry rose and as part of Henry vii.
237
00:14:12,670 --> 00:14:17,410
It's warship and not just as part of
Henry VII's warship, but as part of
238
00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:22,390
everything that Henry VIII himself
symbolized as, you know, the end of the
239
00:14:22,390 --> 00:14:27,459
wars of the Roses and what he symbolizes
as a, you know, historical figure today.
240
00:14:27,459 --> 00:14:27,670
Right?
241
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:34,060
All of those things can come from
that one piece of pottery to me.
242
00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:40,860
We're in a place where the testing is
gonna take place on the fragment of vials.
243
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:45,330
That's the actual thing that each
siloed engineering team is working
244
00:14:45,330 --> 00:14:49,980
on and their testing environment
is going to be completely virtual.
245
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,110
This boggles the mind a little bit, right?
246
00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:55,800
'cause the whole thing about a
test is the, the way things work in
247
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,345
theory and the way things work in
practice is completely different.
248
00:14:58,935 --> 00:15:03,975
And now what we're having is
a system of virtual testing.
249
00:15:03,975 --> 00:15:09,075
So we're gonna test in a not real world
environment, how can that be testing?
250
00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:12,225
The whole thing about testing is it
takes place in the, in the real world.
251
00:15:12,225 --> 00:15:16,845
Well, you say, well, uh, the founder of
remote Labs would probably have said,
252
00:15:16,845 --> 00:15:22,185
well, this, the, the integration testing
would still take place at, at the end.
253
00:15:22,185 --> 00:15:25,814
We just allow you to speed up the testing.
254
00:15:25,905 --> 00:15:27,225
Process there.
255
00:15:27,225 --> 00:15:29,265
So integration testing from day one.
256
00:15:29,385 --> 00:15:33,135
You know, I talked about the silos and
I talked about the information flowing
257
00:15:33,135 --> 00:15:38,175
from the silos straight away rather than,
you know, integration testing out of the
258
00:15:38,175 --> 00:15:40,995
box, a full integration testing system.
259
00:15:41,319 --> 00:15:44,469
So that now we're getting
to the stage of, yeah, yeah.
260
00:15:44,469 --> 00:15:44,979
All right.
261
00:15:44,979 --> 00:15:47,949
I know that, you know, you're gonna
fill me up with burger and fries,
262
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,719
but when I'm actually at the counter
ordering, how does, how does that work?
263
00:15:52,750 --> 00:15:54,339
What does the Happy Meal look like?
264
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:57,459
How much is the big back and
fries versus the quarter pound?
265
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,859
So that all seemed to be in
comparison to other software.
266
00:16:03,395 --> 00:16:06,395
Define vehicle AI kind of companies.
267
00:16:06,665 --> 00:16:09,065
This all seemed more baked, to be honest.
268
00:16:09,095 --> 00:16:12,185
Um, I've not been to their website
and looked, they only talked about
269
00:16:12,185 --> 00:16:16,355
having one client who seemed to
be polestar based upon the sample
270
00:16:16,355 --> 00:16:18,485
names in, in their presentation.
271
00:16:18,485 --> 00:16:21,900
But it does seem like
if you approach them.
272
00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:25,120
You wouldn't be a prototype site for them.
273
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,340
If you approach them and engage them, they
have something which is out of the box.
274
00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:34,420
And that brings me back to that phrase
that I've used a couple of times before.
275
00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:38,440
But I find it helpful to think with these
kind of mnemonics to get my head around
276
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,910
what, what's really happening here.
277
00:16:40,270 --> 00:16:46,000
The path to a product with over the
airwaves upgrades is shorter and smoother.
278
00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:46,900
That's what they're doing.
279
00:16:47,550 --> 00:16:48,720
That's what they're trying to do.
280
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:54,270
And the fact that there are so many
automotive makers who want that, who
281
00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:58,830
that's a compelling problem to be solved
for, or the fact that there's anybody
282
00:16:58,830 --> 00:17:02,790
out there that these guys feel they're
comfortable pitching that message.
283
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,410
That is what's interesting.
284
00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:08,010
You know, if there's a guy outside a
stadium selling hot dogs, he might not
285
00:17:08,010 --> 00:17:11,640
be selling any hot dogs, but the fact
that he's there says something about
286
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,140
the fact that there might be demand.
287
00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:13,480
That's what.
288
00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:18,170
So wrote here, the traditional
automotive engineering is going the
289
00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:20,570
way of steam locomotive engineering.
290
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:25,010
I have a biography of Sir Nigel
Gresley up on my bookshelf there.
291
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,820
And you know, in the first half of
the 20th century he was like an Adrian
292
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:36,110
Newey kind of a figure in terms of
steam engine design and engineering.
293
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,090
Nobody's fucking heard
of him now have they?
294
00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:39,140
Was my thought.
295
00:17:39,825 --> 00:17:44,295
You know, in the Mallard, the steam
engine that did 120 miles an hour, I mean.
296
00:17:45,075 --> 00:17:48,885
It's an awesome thing, but it's
really right back there with
297
00:17:48,885 --> 00:17:50,685
the spinning Jenny, isn't it?
298
00:17:51,135 --> 00:17:54,825
And it, it was, even when I was a boy
growing up, you know, in the seventies and
299
00:17:54,825 --> 00:17:59,985
the eighties, you know, the mallard and
steam power, it was something of the past.
300
00:17:59,990 --> 00:18:01,670
It was already historicized.
301
00:18:01,670 --> 00:18:01,850
Right.
302
00:18:01,850 --> 00:18:06,260
And that's why I'm using that, that
example because you know, well it's
303
00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:07,640
like a Lamar winning car, isn't it?
304
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:07,880
No.
305
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,980
Or a Formula One car no
longer does it win it.
306
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,810
No sooner does it win its last race,
then it immediately becomes a museum
307
00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:21,020
piece and the technology moves on and,
and I suppose I hadn't anticipated
308
00:18:21,020 --> 00:18:25,550
as part of this software defined car
revolution that we were gonna lose.
309
00:18:25,865 --> 00:18:29,165
People like Adrian Newey, there
were gonna be no Adrian Newey in the
310
00:18:29,165 --> 00:18:32,675
future because those kind of brains
just weren't gonna be interested in
311
00:18:32,735 --> 00:18:38,225
designing cars because we've done that
just like the zeitgeist has moved on.
312
00:18:38,225 --> 00:18:43,055
And a brilliant brain like son Nigel
Gresley would not have been involved in.
313
00:18:43,325 --> 00:18:44,495
I hope I've made my point there.
314
00:18:47,605 --> 00:18:52,615
One interesting thing that he did say,
and, and this is an interesting facet
315
00:18:52,735 --> 00:18:57,355
of these presentations, is that quite
often the most interesting part of the
316
00:18:57,355 --> 00:19:02,665
evening are the question, but quite often
I would say for every one question that's
317
00:19:02,995 --> 00:19:07,585
really compelling and leads to a pearl
of wisdom that makes you really glad
318
00:19:07,585 --> 00:19:11,575
that you came, that pearl alone would've
been worth the evening out of the house.
319
00:19:11,575 --> 00:19:13,765
Kind of that's offset by the fact that.
320
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,590
Uh, maybe it's the engineering audience,
although I find the same happens with
321
00:19:17,889 --> 00:19:22,330
historians and social scientists, but
somebody takes you down this boring
322
00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:26,680
rat hole and I just chewed out and
I can find it hard to tune back in.
323
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,760
Even if the presenter's answer
is, is a compelling one.
324
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:37,750
But one point that he made was
the Westerners like bespoke
325
00:19:37,810 --> 00:19:40,420
performance solutions, whereas.
326
00:19:40,745 --> 00:19:44,435
Chinese engineers will make do with.
327
00:19:44,775 --> 00:19:48,375
Off the shelf components
and we'll integrate that.
328
00:19:48,495 --> 00:19:51,705
And I think that's a really
interesting philosophy.
329
00:19:52,035 --> 00:19:54,465
Now I am replaying it.
330
00:19:54,585 --> 00:19:59,715
I wonder if, if you listen to the
presentation that I did with lio that
331
00:19:59,715 --> 00:20:04,065
was about the history of Leadar or looked
at, you know, where we are with our
332
00:20:04,065 --> 00:20:07,905
development or where we were, you know,
18 months ago or whenever I, whenever I
333
00:20:07,905 --> 00:20:11,265
went to that, I was struck there by how.
334
00:20:11,555 --> 00:20:16,085
The Leadar developers were all in bed
with one particular German company, and
335
00:20:16,085 --> 00:20:22,115
it made me wonder how political Tesla's
public rejection of Leadar was and how
336
00:20:22,115 --> 00:20:27,035
the German's embrace of Leadar was perhaps
a, you know, less about the technology
337
00:20:27,035 --> 00:20:31,955
and more as desperate attempt to give
themselves some differentiation from
338
00:20:31,955 --> 00:20:34,205
this aggressive new player in the market.
339
00:20:34,505 --> 00:20:37,775
It's a very cynical thought, but
now I've said it out loud again.
340
00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:44,510
Feel that it's really not unlikely that
that's the case, especially given that,
341
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:49,100
you know, German autonomous cars are
meant to operate at 150 miles an hour.
342
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,780
You know, a much higher level of veracity.
343
00:20:54,510 --> 00:20:55,500
If that's the right word.
344
00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:58,139
It's not, they basically have to
have, be high quality, just like
345
00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:03,240
an A MG Benz is designed to do 150
miles an hour on the autobar with
346
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,830
five people and their luggage in it.
347
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:08,700
Other cars aren't designed
to that kind of standard.
348
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:13,725
The same thing's going on here, I
think perhaps with Leadar design, so
349
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:16,995
perhaps that's why Westerners like.
350
00:21:17,685 --> 00:21:23,505
Bespoke performance solutions and the
Chinese are, you know, more ready to make
351
00:21:23,505 --> 00:21:28,275
do, maybe it's not a cultural thing, maybe
it's a price point and marketing thing.
352
00:21:28,275 --> 00:21:32,655
Maybe Stellantis are gonna be
doing something which is more, you
353
00:21:32,655 --> 00:21:34,185
know, off the shelf and integrate.
354
00:21:34,185 --> 00:21:39,560
Although interestingly, I do remember
the Val guy saying that Stellantis.
355
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:43,990
Wanted to take all of their, if you
like, the firmware, remember if you
356
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:47,980
listed their Leadar presentation,
they were like, some people just
357
00:21:47,980 --> 00:21:49,930
want to take the Leadar device.
358
00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:53,170
Other people want to take the
Leadar device, the hardware,
359
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,660
but they also want to take our.
360
00:21:55,995 --> 00:21:58,155
Kind of bespoke software.
361
00:21:58,419 --> 00:22:02,294
Our, our like firmware
almost, or our interpreter.
362
00:22:02,445 --> 00:22:05,114
In other words, we got some
stuff programmed in that.
363
00:22:05,145 --> 00:22:08,475
Let you say like, if it's got
small and four legs, it's a dog.
364
00:22:08,715 --> 00:22:10,844
If it's large and four legs, it's a cow.
365
00:22:11,084 --> 00:22:14,084
If it's, you know, got two
wheels, it's a bicycle.
366
00:22:14,354 --> 00:22:19,395
So in other words, your device, your ai,
you know, your ECM doesn't need to have
367
00:22:19,514 --> 00:22:25,544
the horsepower because we are already
doing some pre interpretation for it.
368
00:22:25,735 --> 00:22:27,025
If that makes sense.
369
00:22:27,265 --> 00:22:31,285
I'm not sure how clear my point here
is is, but I suppose what I'm trying to
370
00:22:31,285 --> 00:22:36,085
say is that traditionally the Germans
used to charge more for a premium
371
00:22:36,085 --> 00:22:38,815
product because it drove better, right?
372
00:22:38,815 --> 00:22:43,255
It, it was better to sit in, it went
around corners better, accelerated faster.
373
00:22:43,255 --> 00:22:44,575
It had a high top speed.
374
00:22:44,575 --> 00:22:47,215
You know, when you were on
the freeway it was quieter.
375
00:22:47,485 --> 00:22:49,255
You know, there were
those kind of very ta.
376
00:22:49,315 --> 00:22:49,990
There were those kind of.
377
00:22:50,525 --> 00:22:55,745
Of reasons and the whole, the whole world
of car magazines and journalism and what
378
00:22:55,745 --> 00:23:00,005
was a good car and what was a bad car,
and what impressed people in the company
379
00:23:00,005 --> 00:23:05,465
car park and all of that stuff was all
wrapped up with that kind of performance.
380
00:23:05,465 --> 00:23:06,725
And I, I wonder if.
381
00:23:07,295 --> 00:23:13,265
The Germans aren't trying to do the same
thing with their techno functionality.
382
00:23:13,265 --> 00:23:15,725
I mean, BMW definitely
seem to be, don't they?
383
00:23:15,725 --> 00:23:17,675
Perhaps, uh, perhaps it's
a statement of the obvious.
384
00:23:17,675 --> 00:23:21,635
Perhaps that's what they are trying
to do, and perhaps the motive guy
385
00:23:21,935 --> 00:23:25,475
by saying Westerners like bespoke
performance solutions and, and the
386
00:23:25,475 --> 00:23:30,185
Chinese are more happy to make, do with
off the shelf solutions and integrate.
387
00:23:30,515 --> 00:23:33,380
Perhaps that's just a different
way of, of saying that.
388
00:23:37,185 --> 00:23:41,895
One question was about what actually
is spat out of a simulation?
389
00:23:42,615 --> 00:23:44,565
So what kind of rapport was it?
390
00:23:44,925 --> 00:23:50,535
I can't remember what the answer was,
but I, I just thought that illustrates
391
00:23:50,625 --> 00:23:55,695
that kind of a, I'm at the counter,
I've ordered a burger and fries.
392
00:23:55,875 --> 00:23:57,955
When the burger and fries
come, what do they look like?
393
00:23:57,955 --> 00:23:58,210
You know?
394
00:23:58,810 --> 00:23:59,800
Am I getting a tray?
395
00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:00,879
Is it wrapped?
396
00:24:00,879 --> 00:24:02,260
Am I gonna need a napkin?
397
00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:07,090
Am I, you know, that's the
stage that the audience are at
398
00:24:07,149 --> 00:24:08,439
with this kind of technology.
399
00:24:08,439 --> 00:24:11,980
They're not blown away
by the concept of this.
400
00:24:12,189 --> 00:24:13,090
They're like, no, no.
401
00:24:13,205 --> 00:24:15,189
I, I, I get the burger and fries.
402
00:24:15,189 --> 00:24:16,480
I get the fast food.
403
00:24:16,780 --> 00:24:17,980
You know, I get that.
404
00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:21,370
I, I'm interested in whether
or not there's gerkin and
405
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:22,780
is the coffee free or not?
406
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:27,040
That's where the audience were thinking.
407
00:24:29,925 --> 00:24:33,915
So I think the final point that
came out of the questioning was
408
00:24:34,185 --> 00:24:35,955
from like an old coup at the front.
409
00:24:36,045 --> 00:24:38,595
And you've gotta believe when
you go to one of these events
410
00:24:38,595 --> 00:24:41,925
in Silicon Valley, some old coup
wearing a hoodie at the front.
411
00:24:41,925 --> 00:24:45,915
I mean, he could be a partner,
uh, a Silicon Valley VC firm.
412
00:24:46,004 --> 00:24:50,115
'cause the VC guys, if, if, if you
don't know the way Silicon Valley's
413
00:24:50,475 --> 00:24:55,034
laid out, if you've come from like the
city, London, or you know, any kind
414
00:24:55,034 --> 00:24:56,865
of a European financial center, it's.
415
00:24:57,030 --> 00:24:58,110
Kind of weird.
416
00:24:58,470 --> 00:25:01,050
Firstly, because the
valley's all like low rise.
417
00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:06,120
And secondly, when you realize that not
only is Stanford the model for all the
418
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:11,100
tech campuses, so all the tech campuses
feel like Stanford's campus, which is
419
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:15,180
a bit weird because it means that all
of these people who like left Stanford
420
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:18,930
and went to Google or left Stanford
and went to Apple, they went from one
421
00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,930
place where they worked with a bunch
of people who were exactly like them.
422
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:25,910
Riding round on bikes at a really
nice campus to another place
423
00:25:25,910 --> 00:25:27,110
that looked exactly like that.
424
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:28,490
And the only difference
was how much you got.
425
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:30,350
I mean, Berkeley's not like that.
426
00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:31,670
Berkeley felt like Leeds.
427
00:25:31,670 --> 00:25:36,110
It felt like a gritty educational
institution that had been
428
00:25:36,110 --> 00:25:37,250
there for a hundred years.
429
00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:43,580
Stanford does not feel that way at all,
and one of the weirdnesses of Stanford
430
00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:46,580
is the road connecting it to the freeway.
431
00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:53,310
Is venture capital central or the venture
capital firms that you've heard of in
432
00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:58,620
association with funding, either early
stage startups or late stage ones?
433
00:25:58,620 --> 00:25:59,070
They're all right there.
434
00:26:00,165 --> 00:26:02,955
On that drag, it's a bit like the
first time you work the city of
435
00:26:02,955 --> 00:26:07,005
London and you realize that you
really can do one meeting and it
436
00:26:07,005 --> 00:26:10,215
really is just gonna be five minutes
round the corner to another meeting.
437
00:26:10,425 --> 00:26:14,925
So you can literally book meetings
every hour and not be laid.
438
00:26:15,135 --> 00:26:21,945
The question this older bloke in
a hoodie asked was, um, around
439
00:26:22,155 --> 00:26:24,825
what actually is the main.
440
00:26:25,514 --> 00:26:28,274
I can't remember how he framed it,
but basically he was like, what's the
441
00:26:28,274 --> 00:26:30,285
biggest cock block to getting adopt?
442
00:26:30,675 --> 00:26:35,295
And they said political resistance
within the organization.
443
00:26:35,415 --> 00:26:38,535
And he said, you know, because it's
such a revolutionary approach, but if
444
00:26:38,535 --> 00:26:43,965
you just stop and think about that,
that is a total showstopper, isn't it?
445
00:26:44,024 --> 00:26:49,995
Because at the moment if the head of silo
A, the head of Silo B and the head of Silo
446
00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:53,355
C, they might have gripes with each other.
447
00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:59,280
But they each have their own
process, which they've been following
448
00:26:59,340 --> 00:27:00,840
and has been working just fine.
449
00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:04,020
And when you rock up and say,
yeah, now you guys are gonna
450
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:05,340
have to share from the beginning.
451
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,960
So that means that right from the start,
I'm trying to design my brake rotor.
452
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:14,010
But I've gotta have meetings with you
so that I get some idea of what your
453
00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:19,200
suspension looks like so that I can
already begin integration testing.
454
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,460
I mean, it just feels like, you know,
we, we had a process that was working and
455
00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:25,290
now you've come along and changed it all.
456
00:27:25,470 --> 00:27:30,960
And I think the, that for me was a
reminder of what it's like to actually
457
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:33,145
sell these kind of software products.
458
00:27:33,325 --> 00:27:33,665
Is that.
459
00:27:34,205 --> 00:27:40,145
In the kind of safe environment
of that kind of presentation, the
460
00:27:40,415 --> 00:27:47,045
concept seems awesome, revolutionary
compelling, but when you actually meet
461
00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:53,285
the reality of those three silos now,
or having to work together and work
462
00:27:53,315 --> 00:27:58,175
in a completely different way, I feel
like whatever efficiencies you might
463
00:27:58,175 --> 00:28:02,885
gain could easily be lost in like the
re-imagining of the whole process.
464
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:09,320
And certainly there would be significant
productivity losses, you know, as
465
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,500
ever, whether there is in these kind
of software products, in the actual
466
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,590
integration and training and setup and
persuading people to use itness of it all.
467
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:23,900
So to conclude, these remote guys
seemed to have a product which was
468
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:27,920
highly baked, and it definitely
seemed to have a need, which.
469
00:28:28,350 --> 00:28:33,570
Was developed well based upon
the questions that were asked.
470
00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:37,649
You know, the people asking
questions, they weren't being like,
471
00:28:37,649 --> 00:28:39,120
well, is it even gonna fill me up?
472
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,389
They were asking questions
like, I, I want fries with that.
473
00:28:42,659 --> 00:28:44,879
When's the McFlurry coming?
474
00:28:44,879 --> 00:28:49,290
You know, those were the kind of questions
that the audience were asking, but.
475
00:28:50,639 --> 00:28:56,280
You've still got this like hugely
disruptive kind of process.
476
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:02,879
So you know, for me, if I put my
software sales guy hat on for the next
477
00:29:02,879 --> 00:29:07,530
interview, I would've really wanted to
talk to some customers and I would've
478
00:29:07,530 --> 00:29:11,245
really wanted a warm feel that they
weren't just in bed with one company.
479
00:29:11,855 --> 00:29:15,575
Because that was my worry that the, and
I, I should go to their website and have
480
00:29:15,575 --> 00:29:19,145
a look around, and I might be misleading
you with this, but you know, you don't
481
00:29:19,145 --> 00:29:24,004
want a situation where they're only in bed
with one company and they're completely
482
00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:25,895
in lockstep with what they're doing.
483
00:29:26,105 --> 00:29:29,555
So you, as a sales person, you
can't really sell the product to
484
00:29:29,555 --> 00:29:33,245
anybody else because it's like left
handed scissors, you know, only
485
00:29:33,245 --> 00:29:35,345
works for 10% of the population.
486
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,060
Thank you.
487
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:36,630
Drive through.
488
00:29:47,865 --> 00:29:51,345
This episode has been brought to you
by Grand Touring Motorsports as part
489
00:29:51,345 --> 00:29:52,995
of our Motoring Podcast network.
490
00:29:53,175 --> 00:29:57,015
For more episodes like this, tune in each
week for more exciting and educational
491
00:29:57,015 --> 00:30:00,675
content from organizations like The
Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring
492
00:30:00,675 --> 00:30:03,165
Historian, break Fixx, and many others.
493
00:30:03,255 --> 00:30:05,775
If you'd like to support Grand
Touring Motor Sports and the Motoring
494
00:30:05,775 --> 00:30:09,585
Podcast Network, sign up for one
of our many sponsorship tiers at
495
00:30:09,585 --> 00:30:14,025
www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports.
496
00:30:14,365 --> 00:30:17,155
Please note that the content,
opinions and materials presented and
497
00:30:17,155 --> 00:30:20,665
expressed in this episode are those
of its creator, and this episode has
498
00:30:20,665 --> 00:30:22,195
been published with their consent.
499
00:30:22,314 --> 00:30:25,824
If you have any inquiries about this
program, please contact the creators
500
00:30:25,824 --> 00:30:29,784
of this episode via email or social
media as mentioned in the episode.
00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:02,640
John Summers is the motoring historian.
2
00:00:02,820 --> 00:00:07,650
He was a company car thrashing technology
sales rep that turned into a fairly inept
3
00:00:07,650 --> 00:00:10,110
sports bike rider hailing from California.
4
00:00:10,140 --> 00:00:12,930
He collects cars and bikes
built with plenty of cheap and
5
00:00:12,930 --> 00:00:14,850
fast and not much reliable.
6
00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:18,600
On his show, he gets together with
various co-hosts to talk about new
7
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,250
and old cars driving motorbikes,
motor racing, and motoring travel.
8
00:00:35,275 --> 00:00:36,045
Good day.
9
00:00:36,195 --> 00:00:37,800
Good morning, good afternoon.
10
00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:40,050
It is John Summers the motoring historian.
11
00:00:40,455 --> 00:00:47,355
Scalable digital twins for
software defined vehicles.
12
00:00:47,565 --> 00:00:48,735
What does that even mean?
13
00:00:48,735 --> 00:00:51,975
You might say, and if you've
not been listening to these ones
14
00:00:51,975 --> 00:00:54,705
that I've done that are about
the software defined car or.
15
00:00:55,300 --> 00:00:57,010
AI State of the nation.
16
00:00:57,250 --> 00:01:01,810
This is kind of A-T-L-D-R on those,
or a bit of a bolt on onto those.
17
00:01:01,810 --> 00:01:06,610
It's the same speaker series that I've
been to down there in, uh, in Silicon
18
00:01:06,610 --> 00:01:11,410
Valley, organized by the Society of
Automotive Engineers and Dr. Beaker.
19
00:01:11,650 --> 00:01:12,580
So thank you again.
20
00:01:12,580 --> 00:01:18,190
Spend for inviting me the speaker,
this time with these guys remote labs.
21
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,100
I mean, I'll add the link and, and so
on, so you can have a, have a little look
22
00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:24,320
at who they are and and what they do.
23
00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:29,330
But, but fundamentally, all of the
speakers in this series have been people
24
00:01:29,330 --> 00:01:35,720
who, organizations, companies that are
involved in, you know, the building blocks
25
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,150
of the new software defined vehicle.
26
00:01:38,150 --> 00:01:40,905
And I think the software
defined vehicle is the end of.
27
00:01:41,475 --> 00:01:45,975
Cars as being something that's about
freedom, and it's the beginning of
28
00:01:45,975 --> 00:01:49,815
being something which is as, uh, the
McKinsey guy said in a, the software
29
00:01:49,815 --> 00:01:51,705
defined car presentation that I went to.
30
00:01:51,705 --> 00:01:54,975
It makes the car an edge of cloud device.
31
00:01:54,975 --> 00:01:56,505
It makes it like your phone.
32
00:01:56,745 --> 00:01:59,565
It means that there's some
compute on your phone, you know,
33
00:01:59,565 --> 00:02:01,155
you can download stuff to it.
34
00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:04,995
There's some computing power on it,
but most of your phone's functionality
35
00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:08,025
comes via its connectivity to the cloud.
36
00:02:08,134 --> 00:02:14,704
And the wonderful engineering integrity
that tomorrow's cars are gonna have,
37
00:02:14,975 --> 00:02:17,674
that's going to come from the cloud.
38
00:02:17,674 --> 00:02:21,695
It's not gonna come from the piece of
hardware that's sitting on your driveway.
39
00:02:21,695 --> 00:02:26,855
So if you think of it a hundred years
ago, Fred and Orie, Dusenberg created
40
00:02:26,855 --> 00:02:28,954
the very best machine they could.
41
00:02:29,195 --> 00:02:33,305
And when you drove it off the
forecourt, it was yours completely.
42
00:02:33,695 --> 00:02:34,535
It was yours.
43
00:02:34,535 --> 00:02:36,334
It was your domain.
44
00:02:36,605 --> 00:02:37,325
Now.
45
00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:38,700
It's not, is it?
46
00:02:38,970 --> 00:02:40,590
I mean, you might pay for it.
47
00:02:40,620 --> 00:02:42,720
You probably don't even own it outright.
48
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,160
You're probably leasing it, but
even if you do pay for it outright.
49
00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:51,750
What we're now talking about
is over the airwaves upgrades.
50
00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:56,190
You know, the, you are a light at
night sleeping and you know, your Tesla
51
00:02:56,490 --> 00:03:00,450
gets an upgrade so it can recharge
its batteries that much faster.
52
00:03:00,450 --> 00:03:04,200
This is the world of the 21st century.
53
00:03:04,590 --> 00:03:05,430
Oh yes.
54
00:03:05,430 --> 00:03:06,840
So it means that the car that you.
55
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,500
Off the driveway in the morning is
actually not the same as the one that
56
00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,760
you parked in the driveway the night
before and you don't have any idea
57
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,730
what changes may have been made to it.
58
00:03:19,730 --> 00:03:25,340
So I don't want to be all dystopian about
over the airwaves upgrades, but fuck's
59
00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:28,130
sake, just gimme the keys and let me go.
60
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:28,765
It's about freedom.
61
00:03:29,435 --> 00:03:30,454
It's about freedom.
62
00:03:30,725 --> 00:03:33,965
It's not about a connected device.
63
00:03:34,025 --> 00:03:38,765
And I'm sorry, sir, I can't, I'm sorry,
sir. You're gonna have to go through
64
00:03:38,765 --> 00:03:42,935
the touch screen and I'm, I'm sorry sir,
are you sure you want to shut me down?
65
00:03:42,935 --> 00:03:43,204
Yes.
66
00:03:43,204 --> 00:03:48,065
I'm really, I'm sure I want to shut
you down and flush you down the loo
67
00:03:48,065 --> 00:03:53,600
any car that makes me wanna communicate
with it through the touch screen.
68
00:03:54,125 --> 00:03:56,135
I know Tesla are big into this, right?
69
00:03:56,225 --> 00:03:59,285
I've not really experienced
a car that's got it.
70
00:03:59,285 --> 00:04:03,095
Of course, it's much cheaper if
you can just have a button on a, in
71
00:04:03,095 --> 00:04:06,484
a piece of software than a button
on a real dashboard, isn't it?
72
00:04:06,484 --> 00:04:08,255
So that's clearly the thinking behind it.
73
00:04:08,255 --> 00:04:09,935
Oh, the design's so clean.
74
00:04:09,995 --> 00:04:12,965
The Tesla will tell me,
I say balls to that.
75
00:04:13,234 --> 00:04:14,750
It's all about making it cheap.
76
00:04:15,495 --> 00:04:16,695
A furious driving.
77
00:04:16,695 --> 00:04:22,125
A YouTuber who I follow recently reviewed
a Geely, which is being sold in Britain.
78
00:04:22,125 --> 00:04:26,175
Of course it's being sold a great price,
tons of content, but everything has
79
00:04:26,175 --> 00:04:31,664
to be run through the screen and, and
I was amused that as he was trying to
80
00:04:31,664 --> 00:04:36,675
like toggle to turn off the annoying
lane assist thing that was trying to put
81
00:04:36,675 --> 00:04:40,125
him into the hedge of the country road
that he was driving along as he was.
82
00:04:40,260 --> 00:04:42,090
Toggling to try and turn that off.
83
00:04:42,090 --> 00:04:44,820
The car was getting crossed
with him because it detected
84
00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:46,620
his eyes weren't on the road.
85
00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:50,909
I'm just like, you machines
can all get in the fucking sea.
86
00:04:51,659 --> 00:04:53,940
You can all get in the sea, right?
87
00:04:53,940 --> 00:04:57,060
The car just needs to do what
you tell it to like a hammer.
88
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,890
You tell it go, it goes.
89
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,640
I actually think I wrote an
article about this some years ago.
90
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,830
I actually think the cusp for this change
was in the eighties and the nineties.
91
00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:12,930
So in other words, you know, my,
uh, 95 Mustang with no a, b, s and
92
00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:15,360
no traction control free as a bird.
93
00:05:15,820 --> 00:05:17,440
Wrap around a lamppost if you want.
94
00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:18,610
It's not gonna stop you.
95
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:22,420
The oh one car that I have, although his
characters completely the same, feels
96
00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:28,120
exactly the same to drive the A BS and
the traction control mean that there
97
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,390
is a committee of electronic nannies.
98
00:05:32,305 --> 00:05:35,845
And I'll attribute that to Jeremy
Clarkson, that's how he described it.
99
00:05:36,145 --> 00:05:41,425
A committee of electronic nannies
that have to approve what you
100
00:05:41,425 --> 00:05:42,625
are doing before it happens.
101
00:05:42,625 --> 00:05:45,325
You push the throttle and the
car's like, Hmm, let me see,
102
00:05:45,325 --> 00:05:46,705
is there gravel on the road?
103
00:05:46,885 --> 00:05:48,025
Oh, you've got a live axle.
104
00:05:48,055 --> 00:05:49,345
What might No.
105
00:05:49,345 --> 00:05:49,705
Right.
106
00:05:49,825 --> 00:05:51,685
No, that's not free.
107
00:05:55,795 --> 00:06:02,305
But anyway, I didn't sit down and do
this recording to get up on my fuck
108
00:06:02,305 --> 00:06:04,555
the software defined car soapbox.
109
00:06:04,585 --> 00:06:06,235
No, I didn't do that at all.
110
00:06:06,235 --> 00:06:06,415
No.
111
00:06:06,625 --> 00:06:12,265
I hit the record button here so that we
can all know exactly what stage we're at.
112
00:06:12,325 --> 00:06:16,885
Blow by blow as driving
is being de invented.
113
00:06:16,885 --> 00:06:21,565
So scalable digital twins for
software defined vehicles.
114
00:06:21,565 --> 00:06:24,370
What in the actual F does that mean?
115
00:06:25,030 --> 00:06:31,360
What it means is these guys remote
labs, have a software product or
116
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:39,220
a suite of software products which
replicate in a virtual form components,
117
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,590
which haven't yet been developed.
118
00:06:41,590 --> 00:06:45,160
So let's say that it's your job
to develop the suspension system
119
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,410
for the new pulse star, whatever.
120
00:06:47,789 --> 00:06:51,450
And in order for you to develop
the suspension system, you have
121
00:06:51,450 --> 00:06:52,830
to know what the brakes look like.
122
00:06:52,950 --> 00:06:57,750
But the brake guys haven't yet
designed their brake rotor, so you
123
00:06:57,750 --> 00:06:59,489
can't do any engineering around it.
124
00:06:59,789 --> 00:07:02,825
So what this leads to in
traditional car development.
125
00:07:03,225 --> 00:07:07,605
Is, you know, if it takes five years to
develop the car, like halfway through year
126
00:07:07,605 --> 00:07:11,865
four, everyone finishes what they're doing
and then you have what they're calling
127
00:07:12,195 --> 00:07:17,745
integration hell, where you guess that
the brake rotor was gonna be one size and
128
00:07:17,745 --> 00:07:23,175
actually it's a different size from that,
and now you solution for the suspension
129
00:07:23,445 --> 00:07:25,630
doesn't work properly, except it's not.
130
00:07:25,955 --> 00:07:30,544
Physical components that we are waiting
on here, is it, it's not, it's not like,
131
00:07:30,544 --> 00:07:33,275
oh, we're waiting for Brembo to cast us.
132
00:07:33,275 --> 00:07:33,844
The brakes.
133
00:07:33,844 --> 00:07:35,104
Like what are they gonna do us?
134
00:07:35,104 --> 00:07:36,664
Those new chuff D rotors?
135
00:07:36,664 --> 00:07:38,195
No, no, it's not that.
136
00:07:38,585 --> 00:07:40,760
And that's perhaps what was
most depressing about this.
137
00:07:41,195 --> 00:07:44,255
Presentation, although it was the,
although we talked about cars the
138
00:07:44,255 --> 00:07:48,365
whole time, we weren't talking
about actual cars and engineering.
139
00:07:48,425 --> 00:07:52,025
We weren't talking about the traditional
stuff of automotive engineering.
140
00:07:52,265 --> 00:07:56,435
We were talking about software, and that's
really what we're talking about here.
141
00:07:56,435 --> 00:08:02,255
That until the body control people have
written their software properly, the
142
00:08:02,585 --> 00:08:07,505
HVAC entertainment people can't write
their piece of, of software properly.
143
00:08:10,335 --> 00:08:16,364
So remote if labs, what we are
creating is, uh, virtual bits of
144
00:08:16,364 --> 00:08:18,375
infrastructure to allow testing.
145
00:08:18,614 --> 00:08:22,815
What this means is that testing can
take place much sooner in the cycle.
146
00:08:23,145 --> 00:08:26,715
So they have this cool little graphic,
which basically, you know, you look at
147
00:08:26,715 --> 00:08:29,385
the graphic and you understand completely
what it is they're doing, is that they've
148
00:08:29,385 --> 00:08:33,824
got all these like silos and all of
the silos are working independently
149
00:08:34,064 --> 00:08:35,985
to go and create the final car.
150
00:08:36,319 --> 00:08:37,939
And this leads to this integration.
151
00:08:37,939 --> 00:08:43,280
Hell, well now, because everyone can
virtualize what each other are doing, the
152
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,290
integration takes place at the beginning.
153
00:08:45,650 --> 00:08:50,689
So their integration is super smooth,
and they had like a red, jagged graph
154
00:08:50,689 --> 00:08:52,880
and then a nice smooth green one.
155
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,859
They were, they were Swedish by the way.
156
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,819
Um, two sort of middle-aged
guys, but both of them.
157
00:08:59,045 --> 00:09:06,245
Looking very valley on brand, I would say
so, although my age older than than me.
158
00:09:06,545 --> 00:09:11,824
Um, they were t-shirts and, and they
were trendy genie kind of trousers and,
159
00:09:11,824 --> 00:09:14,765
you know, flat canvassy kind of shoes.
160
00:09:14,765 --> 00:09:18,579
You know, these dudes, you know, you
wouldn't confuse this guy with the CEO
161
00:09:18,579 --> 00:09:20,405
with British Steel, you know what I mean?
162
00:09:20,405 --> 00:09:20,740
These are not.
163
00:09:21,235 --> 00:09:26,695
The traditional people who you would see
as suppliers to the automotive industry,
164
00:09:26,695 --> 00:09:32,815
although they do very much fit in with,
you know, the way that valley people walk
165
00:09:32,815 --> 00:09:37,165
and talk, and valley people and all of the
car makers have a presence in the valley.
166
00:09:37,165 --> 00:09:41,875
And all of these software defined
car efforts are, are led by Valley
167
00:09:41,875 --> 00:09:43,945
people with this kind of Palo Alto.
168
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:44,880
Aesthetic.
169
00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:49,650
I wrote, what is being pitched here
is integration testing the path to
170
00:09:49,650 --> 00:09:52,650
a product with over the airwaves.
171
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:55,800
Upgrades is shorter and smoother.
172
00:09:55,980 --> 00:09:58,860
So I also wrote down that this
isn't car way development.
173
00:09:58,860 --> 00:09:59,430
It, it's about.
174
00:10:00,165 --> 00:10:06,555
Management of a software stack,
the it's ECMs, it's GPUs, it's the
175
00:10:06,765 --> 00:10:10,545
stuff that Nvidia hasn't bought
because you know the crypto miners
176
00:10:10,545 --> 00:10:12,135
have got it instead, kind of thing.
177
00:10:12,375 --> 00:10:17,415
It's those kind of products that
we are needing to virtualize.
178
00:10:17,474 --> 00:10:22,094
It is not the sort of suspension and brake
components, which I was thinking about.
179
00:10:22,094 --> 00:10:23,625
And in fact, at no point.
180
00:10:23,910 --> 00:10:28,500
In the presentation, did we talk
about anything but might be considered
181
00:10:28,770 --> 00:10:33,660
traditional automotive engineering, and
I really need to have you sort of stop.
182
00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:40,410
And let that sink in to see how completely
the car has become a mobile phone.
183
00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:43,800
Because even the suspension and
the brakes, all of that shit can
184
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,020
be controlled by the brain, right?
185
00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:50,219
So if you want the car to have better
suspension, well it can just move the
186
00:10:50,430 --> 00:10:51,839
active ride, you know, different way.
187
00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:55,110
And that's how the direction
in in which we're going here.
188
00:10:56,189 --> 00:11:01,140
Not only are we not talking about those
suspension and break and those kind
189
00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:04,380
of traditional automotive components,
not only are we not talking about
190
00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:10,500
them for examples, those things
are rather like nuts and bolts.
191
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:15,449
Now, the design of them, it hasn't been
perfected, but the design of them is
192
00:11:15,449 --> 00:11:20,040
sufficiently well understood that we
know that if we want of a particular
193
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,260
high quality, we have to pay for an
extra kind of alloy and we have to.
194
00:11:25,870 --> 00:11:29,530
Pay for it to be machined in a
certain way, to have a nice flange
195
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,570
on it and to have a hex head on it.
196
00:11:31,570 --> 00:11:34,930
Whereas if we don't care, we could
just rattle 'em out like they do
197
00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:40,570
carpentry nails where they're just
cast out of pig iron and they bend.
198
00:11:40,570 --> 00:11:41,020
So what?
199
00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:43,480
You just chuck it away and
have another kind of thing.
200
00:11:43,930 --> 00:11:51,040
So that's a sea change
that it's the end of cars.
201
00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:54,180
As we've known them in
the 20th century, right?
202
00:11:54,180 --> 00:12:00,900
It's the end of there actually being
something to talk about around the
203
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:05,340
business of motivating the card
down the road and allowing it to
204
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,890
negotiate bumps better or be easier
to repair or all, all of that stuff.
205
00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:15,690
None of that was remotely
considered by these guys.
206
00:12:16,574 --> 00:12:20,505
In this presentation, it's
all about integration of
207
00:12:20,564 --> 00:12:21,854
different software products.
208
00:12:22,035 --> 00:12:24,229
So of course what it means is that.
209
00:12:24,915 --> 00:12:32,445
Testing in future is gonna involve a
blend of actual components and virtual
210
00:12:32,445 --> 00:12:38,895
components, and I've been unable
to shake this thought at the, since
211
00:12:38,895 --> 00:12:42,495
the, in the day since I went to the
presentation that the morning before I
212
00:12:42,495 --> 00:12:47,355
entered the presentation, I was chatting
with somebody about the Mary Rose.
213
00:12:47,589 --> 00:12:50,860
If you are English, you'll
know what the Mary Rose is.
214
00:12:50,860 --> 00:12:52,000
If you're not, you won't.
215
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:55,719
It was King Henry VII's,
top quality warship.
216
00:12:55,870 --> 00:12:59,980
You know, it was the weapon of mass
destruction of the day, and as with so
217
00:12:59,980 --> 00:13:05,260
many of things, it had a Titanic like
sinking experience because it's made
218
00:13:05,260 --> 00:13:06,730
of wood, so it rotted away, right?
219
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:07,030
Anyway.
220
00:13:07,935 --> 00:13:10,574
Docks in Southampton.
221
00:13:10,574 --> 00:13:15,285
Portsmouth got a new display and the
historian that I was chatting to had
222
00:13:15,285 --> 00:13:19,875
recently been to it, and he talked
about how it was awesome because
223
00:13:20,084 --> 00:13:24,614
what they'd done was they'd taken
things that were really there, like
224
00:13:24,675 --> 00:13:31,694
pewter vases, and then put black
plastic where the handle had been.
225
00:13:31,814 --> 00:13:34,875
If the handle had gone broken off,
they put black plastic on there so
226
00:13:34,875 --> 00:13:36,140
you could see what was original.
227
00:13:36,795 --> 00:13:41,745
And you could see what they modeled
so that you could see what this
228
00:13:41,745 --> 00:13:45,915
thing looked like actually in context
rather than it just being a crappy
229
00:13:45,915 --> 00:13:47,925
piece of meaningless broken pottery.
230
00:13:48,045 --> 00:13:50,565
As students used to say to me
when we walked around the forum,
231
00:13:50,715 --> 00:13:51,900
what's this building site?
232
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:53,359
Yeah, exactly.
233
00:13:53,359 --> 00:13:54,949
What's this construction zone?
234
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:59,569
That's what the forum looks like because
it's just a piece of broken pottery.
235
00:13:59,750 --> 00:14:05,930
They've not thought to contextualize it
within its place, not just on a table,
236
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:12,650
not just in a vase, on a table, but on
the Merry rose and as part of Henry vii.
237
00:14:12,670 --> 00:14:17,410
It's warship and not just as part of
Henry VII's warship, but as part of
238
00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:22,390
everything that Henry VIII himself
symbolized as, you know, the end of the
239
00:14:22,390 --> 00:14:27,459
wars of the Roses and what he symbolizes
as a, you know, historical figure today.
240
00:14:27,459 --> 00:14:27,670
Right?
241
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:34,060
All of those things can come from
that one piece of pottery to me.
242
00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:40,860
We're in a place where the testing is
gonna take place on the fragment of vials.
243
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:45,330
That's the actual thing that each
siloed engineering team is working
244
00:14:45,330 --> 00:14:49,980
on and their testing environment
is going to be completely virtual.
245
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,110
This boggles the mind a little bit, right?
246
00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:55,800
'cause the whole thing about a
test is the, the way things work in
247
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,345
theory and the way things work in
practice is completely different.
248
00:14:58,935 --> 00:15:03,975
And now what we're having is
a system of virtual testing.
249
00:15:03,975 --> 00:15:09,075
So we're gonna test in a not real world
environment, how can that be testing?
250
00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:12,225
The whole thing about testing is it
takes place in the, in the real world.
251
00:15:12,225 --> 00:15:16,845
Well, you say, well, uh, the founder of
remote Labs would probably have said,
252
00:15:16,845 --> 00:15:22,185
well, this, the, the integration testing
would still take place at, at the end.
253
00:15:22,185 --> 00:15:25,814
We just allow you to speed up the testing.
254
00:15:25,905 --> 00:15:27,225
Process there.
255
00:15:27,225 --> 00:15:29,265
So integration testing from day one.
256
00:15:29,385 --> 00:15:33,135
You know, I talked about the silos and
I talked about the information flowing
257
00:15:33,135 --> 00:15:38,175
from the silos straight away rather than,
you know, integration testing out of the
258
00:15:38,175 --> 00:15:40,995
box, a full integration testing system.
259
00:15:41,319 --> 00:15:44,469
So that now we're getting
to the stage of, yeah, yeah.
260
00:15:44,469 --> 00:15:44,979
All right.
261
00:15:44,979 --> 00:15:47,949
I know that, you know, you're gonna
fill me up with burger and fries,
262
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,719
but when I'm actually at the counter
ordering, how does, how does that work?
263
00:15:52,750 --> 00:15:54,339
What does the Happy Meal look like?
264
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:57,459
How much is the big back and
fries versus the quarter pound?
265
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,859
So that all seemed to be in
comparison to other software.
266
00:16:03,395 --> 00:16:06,395
Define vehicle AI kind of companies.
267
00:16:06,665 --> 00:16:09,065
This all seemed more baked, to be honest.
268
00:16:09,095 --> 00:16:12,185
Um, I've not been to their website
and looked, they only talked about
269
00:16:12,185 --> 00:16:16,355
having one client who seemed to
be polestar based upon the sample
270
00:16:16,355 --> 00:16:18,485
names in, in their presentation.
271
00:16:18,485 --> 00:16:21,900
But it does seem like
if you approach them.
272
00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:25,120
You wouldn't be a prototype site for them.
273
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,340
If you approach them and engage them, they
have something which is out of the box.
274
00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:34,420
And that brings me back to that phrase
that I've used a couple of times before.
275
00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:38,440
But I find it helpful to think with these
kind of mnemonics to get my head around
276
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,910
what, what's really happening here.
277
00:16:40,270 --> 00:16:46,000
The path to a product with over the
airwaves upgrades is shorter and smoother.
278
00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:46,900
That's what they're doing.
279
00:16:47,550 --> 00:16:48,720
That's what they're trying to do.
280
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:54,270
And the fact that there are so many
automotive makers who want that, who
281
00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:58,830
that's a compelling problem to be solved
for, or the fact that there's anybody
282
00:16:58,830 --> 00:17:02,790
out there that these guys feel they're
comfortable pitching that message.
283
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,410
That is what's interesting.
284
00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:08,010
You know, if there's a guy outside a
stadium selling hot dogs, he might not
285
00:17:08,010 --> 00:17:11,640
be selling any hot dogs, but the fact
that he's there says something about
286
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,140
the fact that there might be demand.
287
00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:13,480
That's what.
288
00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:18,170
So wrote here, the traditional
automotive engineering is going the
289
00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:20,570
way of steam locomotive engineering.
290
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:25,010
I have a biography of Sir Nigel
Gresley up on my bookshelf there.
291
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,820
And you know, in the first half of
the 20th century he was like an Adrian
292
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:36,110
Newey kind of a figure in terms of
steam engine design and engineering.
293
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,090
Nobody's fucking heard
of him now have they?
294
00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:39,140
Was my thought.
295
00:17:39,825 --> 00:17:44,295
You know, in the Mallard, the steam
engine that did 120 miles an hour, I mean.
296
00:17:45,075 --> 00:17:48,885
It's an awesome thing, but it's
really right back there with
297
00:17:48,885 --> 00:17:50,685
the spinning Jenny, isn't it?
298
00:17:51,135 --> 00:17:54,825
And it, it was, even when I was a boy
growing up, you know, in the seventies and
299
00:17:54,825 --> 00:17:59,985
the eighties, you know, the mallard and
steam power, it was something of the past.
300
00:17:59,990 --> 00:18:01,670
It was already historicized.
301
00:18:01,670 --> 00:18:01,850
Right.
302
00:18:01,850 --> 00:18:06,260
And that's why I'm using that, that
example because you know, well it's
303
00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:07,640
like a Lamar winning car, isn't it?
304
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:07,880
No.
305
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,980
Or a Formula One car no
longer does it win it.
306
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,810
No sooner does it win its last race,
then it immediately becomes a museum
307
00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:21,020
piece and the technology moves on and,
and I suppose I hadn't anticipated
308
00:18:21,020 --> 00:18:25,550
as part of this software defined car
revolution that we were gonna lose.
309
00:18:25,865 --> 00:18:29,165
People like Adrian Newey, there
were gonna be no Adrian Newey in the
310
00:18:29,165 --> 00:18:32,675
future because those kind of brains
just weren't gonna be interested in
311
00:18:32,735 --> 00:18:38,225
designing cars because we've done that
just like the zeitgeist has moved on.
312
00:18:38,225 --> 00:18:43,055
And a brilliant brain like son Nigel
Gresley would not have been involved in.
313
00:18:43,325 --> 00:18:44,495
I hope I've made my point there.
314
00:18:47,605 --> 00:18:52,615
One interesting thing that he did say,
and, and this is an interesting facet
315
00:18:52,735 --> 00:18:57,355
of these presentations, is that quite
often the most interesting part of the
316
00:18:57,355 --> 00:19:02,665
evening are the question, but quite often
I would say for every one question that's
317
00:19:02,995 --> 00:19:07,585
really compelling and leads to a pearl
of wisdom that makes you really glad
318
00:19:07,585 --> 00:19:11,575
that you came, that pearl alone would've
been worth the evening out of the house.
319
00:19:11,575 --> 00:19:13,765
Kind of that's offset by the fact that.
320
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,590
Uh, maybe it's the engineering audience,
although I find the same happens with
321
00:19:17,889 --> 00:19:22,330
historians and social scientists, but
somebody takes you down this boring
322
00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:26,680
rat hole and I just chewed out and
I can find it hard to tune back in.
323
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,760
Even if the presenter's answer
is, is a compelling one.
324
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:37,750
But one point that he made was
the Westerners like bespoke
325
00:19:37,810 --> 00:19:40,420
performance solutions, whereas.
326
00:19:40,745 --> 00:19:44,435
Chinese engineers will make do with.
327
00:19:44,775 --> 00:19:48,375
Off the shelf components
and we'll integrate that.
328
00:19:48,495 --> 00:19:51,705
And I think that's a really
interesting philosophy.
329
00:19:52,035 --> 00:19:54,465
Now I am replaying it.
330
00:19:54,585 --> 00:19:59,715
I wonder if, if you listen to the
presentation that I did with lio that
331
00:19:59,715 --> 00:20:04,065
was about the history of Leadar or looked
at, you know, where we are with our
332
00:20:04,065 --> 00:20:07,905
development or where we were, you know,
18 months ago or whenever I, whenever I
333
00:20:07,905 --> 00:20:11,265
went to that, I was struck there by how.
334
00:20:11,555 --> 00:20:16,085
The Leadar developers were all in bed
with one particular German company, and
335
00:20:16,085 --> 00:20:22,115
it made me wonder how political Tesla's
public rejection of Leadar was and how
336
00:20:22,115 --> 00:20:27,035
the German's embrace of Leadar was perhaps
a, you know, less about the technology
337
00:20:27,035 --> 00:20:31,955
and more as desperate attempt to give
themselves some differentiation from
338
00:20:31,955 --> 00:20:34,205
this aggressive new player in the market.
339
00:20:34,505 --> 00:20:37,775
It's a very cynical thought, but
now I've said it out loud again.
340
00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:44,510
Feel that it's really not unlikely that
that's the case, especially given that,
341
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:49,100
you know, German autonomous cars are
meant to operate at 150 miles an hour.
342
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,780
You know, a much higher level of veracity.
343
00:20:54,510 --> 00:20:55,500
If that's the right word.
344
00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:58,139
It's not, they basically have to
have, be high quality, just like
345
00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:03,240
an A MG Benz is designed to do 150
miles an hour on the autobar with
346
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,830
five people and their luggage in it.
347
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:08,700
Other cars aren't designed
to that kind of standard.
348
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:13,725
The same thing's going on here, I
think perhaps with Leadar design, so
349
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:16,995
perhaps that's why Westerners like.
350
00:21:17,685 --> 00:21:23,505
Bespoke performance solutions and the
Chinese are, you know, more ready to make
351
00:21:23,505 --> 00:21:28,275
do, maybe it's not a cultural thing, maybe
it's a price point and marketing thing.
352
00:21:28,275 --> 00:21:32,655
Maybe Stellantis are gonna be
doing something which is more, you
353
00:21:32,655 --> 00:21:34,185
know, off the shelf and integrate.
354
00:21:34,185 --> 00:21:39,560
Although interestingly, I do remember
the Val guy saying that Stellantis.
355
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:43,990
Wanted to take all of their, if you
like, the firmware, remember if you
356
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:47,980
listed their Leadar presentation,
they were like, some people just
357
00:21:47,980 --> 00:21:49,930
want to take the Leadar device.
358
00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:53,170
Other people want to take the
Leadar device, the hardware,
359
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,660
but they also want to take our.
360
00:21:55,995 --> 00:21:58,155
Kind of bespoke software.
361
00:21:58,419 --> 00:22:02,294
Our, our like firmware
almost, or our interpreter.
362
00:22:02,445 --> 00:22:05,114
In other words, we got some
stuff programmed in that.
363
00:22:05,145 --> 00:22:08,475
Let you say like, if it's got
small and four legs, it's a dog.
364
00:22:08,715 --> 00:22:10,844
If it's large and four legs, it's a cow.
365
00:22:11,084 --> 00:22:14,084
If it's, you know, got two
wheels, it's a bicycle.
366
00:22:14,354 --> 00:22:19,395
So in other words, your device, your ai,
you know, your ECM doesn't need to have
367
00:22:19,514 --> 00:22:25,544
the horsepower because we are already
doing some pre interpretation for it.
368
00:22:25,735 --> 00:22:27,025
If that makes sense.
369
00:22:27,265 --> 00:22:31,285
I'm not sure how clear my point here
is is, but I suppose what I'm trying to
370
00:22:31,285 --> 00:22:36,085
say is that traditionally the Germans
used to charge more for a premium
371
00:22:36,085 --> 00:22:38,815
product because it drove better, right?
372
00:22:38,815 --> 00:22:43,255
It, it was better to sit in, it went
around corners better, accelerated faster.
373
00:22:43,255 --> 00:22:44,575
It had a high top speed.
374
00:22:44,575 --> 00:22:47,215
You know, when you were on
the freeway it was quieter.
375
00:22:47,485 --> 00:22:49,255
You know, there were
those kind of very ta.
376
00:22:49,315 --> 00:22:49,990
There were those kind of.
377
00:22:50,525 --> 00:22:55,745
Of reasons and the whole, the whole world
of car magazines and journalism and what
378
00:22:55,745 --> 00:23:00,005
was a good car and what was a bad car,
and what impressed people in the company
379
00:23:00,005 --> 00:23:05,465
car park and all of that stuff was all
wrapped up with that kind of performance.
380
00:23:05,465 --> 00:23:06,725
And I, I wonder if.
381
00:23:07,295 --> 00:23:13,265
The Germans aren't trying to do the same
thing with their techno functionality.
382
00:23:13,265 --> 00:23:15,725
I mean, BMW definitely
seem to be, don't they?
383
00:23:15,725 --> 00:23:17,675
Perhaps, uh, perhaps it's
a statement of the obvious.
384
00:23:17,675 --> 00:23:21,635
Perhaps that's what they are trying
to do, and perhaps the motive guy
385
00:23:21,935 --> 00:23:25,475
by saying Westerners like bespoke
performance solutions and, and the
386
00:23:25,475 --> 00:23:30,185
Chinese are more happy to make, do with
off the shelf solutions and integrate.
387
00:23:30,515 --> 00:23:33,380
Perhaps that's just a different
way of, of saying that.
388
00:23:37,185 --> 00:23:41,895
One question was about what actually
is spat out of a simulation?
389
00:23:42,615 --> 00:23:44,565
So what kind of rapport was it?
390
00:23:44,925 --> 00:23:50,535
I can't remember what the answer was,
but I, I just thought that illustrates
391
00:23:50,625 --> 00:23:55,695
that kind of a, I'm at the counter,
I've ordered a burger and fries.
392
00:23:55,875 --> 00:23:57,955
When the burger and fries
come, what do they look like?
393
00:23:57,955 --> 00:23:58,210
You know?
394
00:23:58,810 --> 00:23:59,800
Am I getting a tray?
395
00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:00,879
Is it wrapped?
396
00:24:00,879 --> 00:24:02,260
Am I gonna need a napkin?
397
00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:07,090
Am I, you know, that's the
stage that the audience are at
398
00:24:07,149 --> 00:24:08,439
with this kind of technology.
399
00:24:08,439 --> 00:24:11,980
They're not blown away
by the concept of this.
400
00:24:12,189 --> 00:24:13,090
They're like, no, no.
401
00:24:13,205 --> 00:24:15,189
I, I, I get the burger and fries.
402
00:24:15,189 --> 00:24:16,480
I get the fast food.
403
00:24:16,780 --> 00:24:17,980
You know, I get that.
404
00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:21,370
I, I'm interested in whether
or not there's gerkin and
405
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:22,780
is the coffee free or not?
406
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:27,040
That's where the audience were thinking.
407
00:24:29,925 --> 00:24:33,915
So I think the final point that
came out of the questioning was
408
00:24:34,185 --> 00:24:35,955
from like an old coup at the front.
409
00:24:36,045 --> 00:24:38,595
And you've gotta believe when
you go to one of these events
410
00:24:38,595 --> 00:24:41,925
in Silicon Valley, some old coup
wearing a hoodie at the front.
411
00:24:41,925 --> 00:24:45,915
I mean, he could be a partner,
uh, a Silicon Valley VC firm.
412
00:24:46,004 --> 00:24:50,115
'cause the VC guys, if, if, if you
don't know the way Silicon Valley's
413
00:24:50,475 --> 00:24:55,034
laid out, if you've come from like the
city, London, or you know, any kind
414
00:24:55,034 --> 00:24:56,865
of a European financial center, it's.
415
00:24:57,030 --> 00:24:58,110
Kind of weird.
416
00:24:58,470 --> 00:25:01,050
Firstly, because the
valley's all like low rise.
417
00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:06,120
And secondly, when you realize that not
only is Stanford the model for all the
418
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:11,100
tech campuses, so all the tech campuses
feel like Stanford's campus, which is
419
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:15,180
a bit weird because it means that all
of these people who like left Stanford
420
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:18,930
and went to Google or left Stanford
and went to Apple, they went from one
421
00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,930
place where they worked with a bunch
of people who were exactly like them.
422
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:25,910
Riding round on bikes at a really
nice campus to another place
423
00:25:25,910 --> 00:25:27,110
that looked exactly like that.
424
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:28,490
And the only difference
was how much you got.
425
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:30,350
I mean, Berkeley's not like that.
426
00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:31,670
Berkeley felt like Leeds.
427
00:25:31,670 --> 00:25:36,110
It felt like a gritty educational
institution that had been
428
00:25:36,110 --> 00:25:37,250
there for a hundred years.
429
00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:43,580
Stanford does not feel that way at all,
and one of the weirdnesses of Stanford
430
00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:46,580
is the road connecting it to the freeway.
431
00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:53,310
Is venture capital central or the venture
capital firms that you've heard of in
432
00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:58,620
association with funding, either early
stage startups or late stage ones?
433
00:25:58,620 --> 00:25:59,070
They're all right there.
434
00:26:00,165 --> 00:26:02,955
On that drag, it's a bit like the
first time you work the city of
435
00:26:02,955 --> 00:26:07,005
London and you realize that you
really can do one meeting and it
436
00:26:07,005 --> 00:26:10,215
really is just gonna be five minutes
round the corner to another meeting.
437
00:26:10,425 --> 00:26:14,925
So you can literally book meetings
every hour and not be laid.
438
00:26:15,135 --> 00:26:21,945
The question this older bloke in
a hoodie asked was, um, around
439
00:26:22,155 --> 00:26:24,825
what actually is the main.
440
00:26:25,514 --> 00:26:28,274
I can't remember how he framed it,
but basically he was like, what's the
441
00:26:28,274 --> 00:26:30,285
biggest cock block to getting adopt?
442
00:26:30,675 --> 00:26:35,295
And they said political resistance
within the organization.
443
00:26:35,415 --> 00:26:38,535
And he said, you know, because it's
such a revolutionary approach, but if
444
00:26:38,535 --> 00:26:43,965
you just stop and think about that,
that is a total showstopper, isn't it?
445
00:26:44,024 --> 00:26:49,995
Because at the moment if the head of silo
A, the head of Silo B and the head of Silo
446
00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:53,355
C, they might have gripes with each other.
447
00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:59,280
But they each have their own
process, which they've been following
448
00:26:59,340 --> 00:27:00,840
and has been working just fine.
449
00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:04,020
And when you rock up and say,
yeah, now you guys are gonna
450
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:05,340
have to share from the beginning.
451
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,960
So that means that right from the start,
I'm trying to design my brake rotor.
452
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:14,010
But I've gotta have meetings with you
so that I get some idea of what your
453
00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:19,200
suspension looks like so that I can
already begin integration testing.
454
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,460
I mean, it just feels like, you know,
we, we had a process that was working and
455
00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:25,290
now you've come along and changed it all.
456
00:27:25,470 --> 00:27:30,960
And I think the, that for me was a
reminder of what it's like to actually
457
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:33,145
sell these kind of software products.
458
00:27:33,325 --> 00:27:33,665
Is that.
459
00:27:34,205 --> 00:27:40,145
In the kind of safe environment
of that kind of presentation, the
460
00:27:40,415 --> 00:27:47,045
concept seems awesome, revolutionary
compelling, but when you actually meet
461
00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:53,285
the reality of those three silos now,
or having to work together and work
462
00:27:53,315 --> 00:27:58,175
in a completely different way, I feel
like whatever efficiencies you might
463
00:27:58,175 --> 00:28:02,885
gain could easily be lost in like the
re-imagining of the whole process.
464
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:09,320
And certainly there would be significant
productivity losses, you know, as
465
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,500
ever, whether there is in these kind
of software products, in the actual
466
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,590
integration and training and setup and
persuading people to use itness of it all.
467
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:23,900
So to conclude, these remote guys
seemed to have a product which was
468
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:27,920
highly baked, and it definitely
seemed to have a need, which.
469
00:28:28,350 --> 00:28:33,570
Was developed well based upon
the questions that were asked.
470
00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:37,649
You know, the people asking
questions, they weren't being like,
471
00:28:37,649 --> 00:28:39,120
well, is it even gonna fill me up?
472
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,389
They were asking questions
like, I, I want fries with that.
473
00:28:42,659 --> 00:28:44,879
When's the McFlurry coming?
474
00:28:44,879 --> 00:28:49,290
You know, those were the kind of questions
that the audience were asking, but.
475
00:28:50,639 --> 00:28:56,280
You've still got this like hugely
disruptive kind of process.
476
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:02,879
So you know, for me, if I put my
software sales guy hat on for the next
477
00:29:02,879 --> 00:29:07,530
interview, I would've really wanted to
talk to some customers and I would've
478
00:29:07,530 --> 00:29:11,245
really wanted a warm feel that they
weren't just in bed with one company.
479
00:29:11,855 --> 00:29:15,575
Because that was my worry that the, and
I, I should go to their website and have
480
00:29:15,575 --> 00:29:19,145
a look around, and I might be misleading
you with this, but you know, you don't
481
00:29:19,145 --> 00:29:24,004
want a situation where they're only in bed
with one company and they're completely
482
00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:25,895
in lockstep with what they're doing.
483
00:29:26,105 --> 00:29:29,555
So you, as a sales person, you
can't really sell the product to
484
00:29:29,555 --> 00:29:33,245
anybody else because it's like left
handed scissors, you know, only
485
00:29:33,245 --> 00:29:35,345
works for 10% of the population.
486
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,060
Thank you.
487
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:36,630
Drive through.
488
00:29:47,865 --> 00:29:51,345
This episode has been brought to you
by Grand Touring Motorsports as part
489
00:29:51,345 --> 00:29:52,995
of our Motoring Podcast network.
490
00:29:53,175 --> 00:29:57,015
For more episodes like this, tune in each
week for more exciting and educational
491
00:29:57,015 --> 00:30:00,675
content from organizations like The
Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring
492
00:30:00,675 --> 00:30:03,165
Historian, break Fixx, and many others.
493
00:30:03,255 --> 00:30:05,775
If you'd like to support Grand
Touring Motor Sports and the Motoring
494
00:30:05,775 --> 00:30:09,585
Podcast Network, sign up for one
of our many sponsorship tiers at
495
00:30:09,585 --> 00:30:14,025
www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports.
496
00:30:14,365 --> 00:30:17,155
Please note that the content,
opinions and materials presented and
497
00:30:17,155 --> 00:30:20,665
expressed in this episode are those
of its creator, and this episode has
498
00:30:20,665 --> 00:30:22,195
been published with their consent.
499
00:30:22,314 --> 00:30:25,824
If you have any inquiries about this
program, please contact the creators
500
00:30:25,824 --> 00:30:29,784
of this episode via email or social
media as mentioned in the episode.
