Anjali Appadurai (00:05)
Hello and welcome back to Break In Case of Emergency, a podcast about mobilizing Canada for the climate crisis with audacious solutions rooted in justice and workers' rights. I am Anjali Appadurai and I'm here with my two wonderful colleagues, Seth Klein and Bushra Asghar. Hi guys.
Bushra Asghar (00:24)
I'm excited to be here today.
Seth Klein (00:27)
Hi, nice to be with you.
Anjali Appadurai (00:29)
We're so excited to have this team together, especially Bushra, who just completed an incredibly inspiring run in Mississauga-Streetsville for the NDP. More on that later. But for now, this is our first episode since the 2025 election. And it's our first kind of what the hell just happened on air. So let's talk about that. What the hell just happened?
We know that we have a Liberal minority, a very narrow Liberal minority. We know that the conservatives did better than any of us expected. We know that the NDP was decimated. We know that the bloc also lost seats. So these are the things that have been much talked about. But Seth, I'll throw over to you. ⁓
Seth Klein (01:21)
Well, I mean, the first reaction for a lot of people was few. mean, just to appreciate the context, only a few months ago, everyone in our movements just saw a sweeping conservative majority as a foregone conclusion. So let this be a lesson that in politics, you just never know. Things can change dramatically ⁓ and very quickly.
Anjali Appadurai (01:46)
You know, I have to say, sorry, Seth, for our listeners, when it was what was a January or February when CBC was predicting a 99 % chance of a conservative supermajority, it was Seth who was like, nah, I don't believe it.
Seth Klein (02:04)
Yeah, except you know what? Here's the truth. I was just trying to get everybody motivated. I didn't believe in myself. ⁓ And yet here we are. so it was an election for the ages, I think, in terms of those historic firsts. ⁓ You know, I think lots of us are breathing a sigh of relief. We dodged a bullet. But I also think it's important that we view this as a reprieve. We narrowly dodged a bullet. You know, we're living in an era with a very divided electorate. It broke narrowly for Trump in the US. It broke narrowly for the Liberals in Carney in Canada. This time, it is, as you say, a minority. So we're looking at another election in a year or two. And it could just as easily go the other way next time. We also saw not record turnout, but a return to higher turnout. you know, there was a 68 % turnout, which is higher than it's been in many elections. Except I can't remember an election where so many people were ⁓ simultaneously highly motivated to vote and yet deeply uninspired. ⁓ You know, this was like a vibes election. There was so little content. It remains to me a scandal that we did not get costed platforms until like the very dying days of this election. ⁓ So it was really about these core vibes on these core questions.
Bushra Asghar (03:41)
Also Seth, I would also say it was really interesting how ⁓ it was a snap election. So I think for a snap election, it had such a high turnout. And I completely agree. think it was ⁓ advanced vote that we started to, I think one in four people at that point had voted. Especially that was my check on the door during the advanced vote. And at that time, we hadn't seen cause of platforms for most of the parties. So it was...
Seth Klein (04:10)
Amazing
Bushra Asghar (04:11)
It was really worrying for me because yeah, like a lot of folks were just voting based on vibes as you said.
Seth Klein (04:19)
Yeah, really telling. so in terms of an outcome, this is also, and many people have noted this, both the Liberals and the Conservatives gained both popular vote and seats combined. They both secured over 40 % of the popular vote. We have not seen that in decades. And so this was really this consolidation behind these two parties. And as you said, off the top, big piece of that was the collapse of the NDP, much of which went to the Liberals, know, this, this understandable impulse to do anything you could to block Trump, to block Pollievre. But importantly, particularly among millennial voters and working class voters, some of those NDP voters went conservative. And then a few key writings, you know, in the Windsor area. ⁓ few other pockets, traditional NDP strongholds, those seats didn't go Liberal, they went conservative.
Anjali Appadurai (05:24)
Yeah, the conservatives gained 23 seats in this election, which in any other context would be a historical gain. But except that it was outdone narrowly by the Liberals. You know, people are celebrating and I know that so many everyday Canadians did go out earnestly to vote to stave off the MAGA aligned ⁓ conservatives.
And we are feeling like we won. We're feeling like, you know, that this is a vindication that Canada doesn't want MAGA. But is it really like for me, this is actually a very worrying result. We have people like Jamil Javani, who is the bestie of JD Vance, talking ⁓ very confidently and is re-empowered. And we have people like Aaron Gunn on the island who were voted in as a result of the vote splitting. And these are dangerous, dangerous people. These are not just regular conservative MPs. These are people with extremist views. For me, this is ⁓ pretty scary, ⁓ actually sort of edging towards MAGA trend. But yeah, what are some other, what does this say about the future? What are some warning signs or some?or some happy signs for the future from this election. Bushra, what do you think?
Bushra Asghar (06:53)
I think honestly, it shows that we have a lot of work to do, right? Like what Seth was saying earlier, like the groups of like young people, ⁓ the racialized community, the working class community, these are people that we are seeing that the conservative party has built a lot of like support around. They've really built a tent where they've like brought these groups in. These are voters that are historically like voting for the NDP or more progressive parties, but are now seeing themselves more aligned with the Conservative Party. And I do think that we should credit the party because they've done incredible work. And we see this in places like the Greater Toronto area, where a lot of folks in the suburbs have voted for the Conservatives this election, specifically around issues of economic uncertainty, right? Like a lot of young people and newcomers and second generation immigrants are just like not seeing that economic future that once Canadians saw for themselves. And in this moment of extreme economic anxiety, ⁓ they don't align with the Liberals and they're honestly really pissed off at what the chances are looking for them. I talked to a lot of folks that were like, I'm leaving this country to the countries that they immigrated from, which was really a jarring conversation, but due to high levels of joblessness. then, mean, of course there's like, I think this election wasn't just about tariffs and the Trump threat. It was also on the conservative end, a lot of people voting for their economic future. It was about crime and public safety. Those local issues were really driven forward by the conservative party and especially in places like the GTA where we've seen this like narrative of crime, joblessness, like become so big but ⁓ created to be so large. ⁓ These were issues that people were voting for at the poll.
Seth Klein (09:06)
You know, I think of these warning signs, looking at ⁓ the, you know, a few of the big polling firms have done ⁓ exit polling now, looking at different demographics and how they voted. ⁓ You've already noted, and we talked about this shift among some working class voters from the NDP to the Conservatives, that's worrisome. In terms of age demographics, it's interesting because for a long time over the last two years, the conservatives had a commanding lead among all young people. When the election actually happened, what the exit polls are saying is that the Liberals beat the conservatives among older voters. Interestingly, they also beat the conservatives among the Gen Zs. The one demographic, and it's the biggest demographic cohort in the country where the conservatives won, is millennials.
And millennials are the generation, I think, who are really feeling that the promise has been broken to them, particularly when we think about things like housing, where they're well enough advanced in their careers, where they should have found economic security, and yet they haven't. ⁓ And then the concerns among youth in general, particularly young men breaking conservative.
And I'm sure lots of people saw the student vote results. You know, every election ⁓ there's this group that holds the student vote and historically it produces kind of progressive minority governments. But this time, for the first time, the conservatives won the student vote. So I think if we don't get our shit together, we're in big trouble. With the demographic trends are not breaking our way.
⁓ And to my mind, the key lesson out of all of this is that incrementalism, neoliberal incrementalism is no match for a surging populist right. The reprieve happened because in the wake of Trump's chaos, we saw this consolidation around these centrist Liberal parties. Interestingly, a week after us, Australia had almost an identical election, where a few months ago the Conservatives were supposed to win and instead the Labour Party won a majority, a kind of centrist Labour Party there. So that's how it broke this time in the context of Trump's madness. But if those governments, whether Labour in Australia or Carney in Canada, if they don't deliver it's gonna break the other way next time. And my fear is that they won't deliver because neoliberal incrementalism can never get ahead of the curve on the crises we face. Housing, poison drugs, climate, you name it. When your response is too incremental, you just never get ahead of it and you under deliver and then the populist right capitalizes on that.
Maybe we'll see with Carney. He's talking big like he doesn't want to be incremental, but it will all be about whether or not they deliver.
Anjali Appadurai (12:33)
That's so true. And ⁓ you're right in that there is a trend, an unmistakable trend, where Liberal incrementalism over the past 10 plus years has taken us closer and closer and closer to this new brand of conservatism. It's taken us away from ⁓ actual emergency level action. It's taken us ⁓ dangerously close to what's happening south of the border.
And that should be a clear warning sign to us because the trend is going that way. As you said, in a couple of years, this could very well mean that the conservatives take back their win. And ⁓ so I think for me, it's just being really careful not to fall into complacency or vindication because of the perception of staving off the right. The other thing that was so interesting for me, you know, I knocked on a few doors as a volunteer this campaign, so many people at the doors had this like the same response, which was like, you know, I'm a progressive, but you know, this election, it's about the economy. It was kind of like, I would love to vote differently, but I got to do the responsible thing. And it's so interesting because the conservatives, further to what you were saying, Bushra, for young people as well have framed themselves as the party of the economy.
Fiscal conservatism has become synonymous with economic responsibility. And that to me is the most damning sign of all of the lack of economic imagination on offer from what should have been our progressive parties.
The conservatives should not be the party of the economy. We should be the party of the economy. You know, we should be talking about economic futures that are bold and different. We should be talking about economic solutions to the crises at hand. A fear of government spending and pro-austerity should not be considered being responsible with the economy. And young people right now are sort of seeking this responsible, a responsible hand to guide them to the future.
I don't know if you've seen all those memes about banker daddy, Carney. He's like the nation's father figure. We just wanted someone responsible, especially for young people. And so the conservatives have positioned themselves as such. mean, the Liberals have done a better job of it for now, but there's still no doubt that people flock to Carney because of his economic credentials, which are very neoliberal, which are further to the right of Trudeau by far. And that to me is so sad.
Bushra Asghar (15:23)
I think it will be really interesting to see like two years out, like will Carney's government create the jobs that young people need, right? Which so many people so desperately need like across the board and not just young people, like right before we started this conversation, I was telling Anjali how we're dealing with like a 6.4 % unemployment rate across the country right now with the auto sectors. But you know, this it kind of goes back to messaging, right? Yeah, like the conservatives only talk about jobs. And the thing is like, we can talk about jobs and job creation in an equitable way, you know, because our wages have stagnated and no one is really talking about how ⁓ hard we're working today, but how far, how little are that's going. And the conservatives have been able to capture on that sentiment in such a beautiful way even though we know that they won't be able to really deliver on that when they're in power.
Seth Klein (16:25)
Yeah, never underestimate the ability of the conservative project to capitalize on the conditions it creates. And the Liberals don't help them, ⁓ or even progressive NDP provincial governments sometimes. I think the danger is always that in the context that Anjali just described, if the impulse among our so-called progressive governments is to default to austerity and restricting spending,
They almost guarantee they're under delivery, right? You will not solve the problems in education and healthcare and housing with an austerity mindset. You will only rag the puck and then allow the conservatives to take full advantage of it.
Anjali Appadurai (17:10)
And every party played into that fear this time. Every party was competing over who could do the bigger tax cuts, know, feeding into embedded fear of public spending, a fear of investment at a time where we want to be independent from the states. And that's what it's going to require. It's going to require that massive investment. So, so uninspiring.
Seth Klein (17:37)
By the way, our own organization's experience with our flagship campaign for the Youth Climate Corps epitomizes all of this, right? So we have a government saying, build, baby, build. We're going to build a speed you've never seen. And then when we finally went on the Youth Climate Corps, it's like, we're going to create this thing that's going to provide paid positions for 500 young people a year, which would fit in my kid's elementary school. And so you've got this huge disconnect between the identification of the problem and the promise, the language of the promise, and then under deliver on the practical ⁓ program on the ground.
Bushra Asghar (18:19)
So it really will be like on us and I think folks to remind the government that will be formed next, ⁓ this coming Monday on how important it is to ensure that these, the delivery is bold, right? Actually, I have a question to Seth or even Anjali about the Liberal platform. So I feel like as we went into the election, they were really like posturing a little bit more to the right. They were talking about the military a lot, you know.
I think really speaking, trying to get more conservative voters out. I think like even the cabinet that they formed for one week before the election, like they took out a lot of ministries, like the Ministry of Labor wasn't in it. The Ministry of Youth and Women and Gender Equality didn't make the cut. A lot of people at that time were just saying that, you know, this is not going to be something that they do long-term. It's just kind of like a momentary episode.
What is your take on what the future holds? Do you think that they're gonna continue to kind of posture and cater to the right in this moment? ⁓
Seth Klein (19:29)
You know, we'll see when the cabinet is named and the ministerial mandate letters are provided and then ultimately the budget next month. You know, it's funny, historically, the line about the Liberals is that they campaign from the left and govern from the right. It's quite positive. The hope now is that they actually did the reverse, that they campaigned on the right trying to peel support away from the conservatives and that now that the election is behind them, they'll govern more from the left. Maybe. We'll see.
We'll see.
Anjali Appadurai (20:02)
Yeah, I hate the fact that I even have hope for that, but you know, I do because Carney is an outsider and because we've seen him, you know, in the same room as some of the greatest climate leaders from the global south that we know. And we know that he understands climate in a very international kind of way. just remains to be like, we know he understands the issue. know how, how much ⁓ we know that he knows how much Canada needs to step up its leadership, ⁓ internationally and domestically. It just remains to be seen how much he follows through on that.
Seth Klein (20:39)
I started to read his book and I will say this, he is indeed an extremely smart person, ⁓ a big thinker. And unlike many leaders who might give lip service to certain crises but they don't really get it, I actually think he does. ⁓ And I think he's really smart. ⁓
What I'm not sure of yet and remains to be seen is whether or not he can get unstuck and break out of a neoliberal defaults approach to things in the face of the crises that we face. And again, I think the answer is we'll see.
Anjali Appadurai (21:25)
Seth, you know, when thinking about the climate emergency response that we need urgently in the next five years, do you think that Carney's vision to build baby build is going to be part of that emergency response? Do you think any part of what he has signaled is part of a true climate emergency response?
Seth Klein (21:48)
Well, we'll see. mean, I've written about and shared my own take on Carney's ⁓ climate plan when he was running for leader. And my worry is that, again, it was like his approach to many things. There's a base assumption that it's the private sector that will do the building and that ultimately the role of government is to incentivize the private sector through tax cuts or tax credits or financial disclosure rules or what have you and then everyone will come to their senses and do the right thing. I don't think that's going to happen. I actually think we have enough evidence that that doesn't work. The keystone pieces of the Liberal approach to climate for the last number of years has been carbon pricing and this big package of tax credits. They have started to bend the curve, but not nearly at the pitch and pace required.
In particular, those tax credits have been undersubscribed. The idea is, there must be all these private sector interests that are just waiting to decarbonize our economy and do all these amazing things if only they had a 30 % tax credit. Well, there aren't. And this is the problem when it comes to climate. So much of what we actually need to decarbonize, whether it's high-speed rail or renewable energy or ⁓ an inter-provincial grid. These are inherently public sector projects. There's nobody in the private sector waiting to be incentivized into the ring. We just have to do it ourselves. And whether or not Carney's prepared to make that shift, I'm nervous about that, but I keep repeating it. We'll see.
Bushra Asghar (23:42)
I feel like what keeps me up at night is that I really see the Carney model being like the public-private partnership model. And then we'll just have like all these big infrastructure projects in like a PPP model and they'll never get finished with like with like very low levels of transparency. And yeah, but I mean, even like the high speed rail project that was just introduced right before the election, I'm pretty sure is proposition to be a public-private partnership. And in Ontario, we've seen just how bad it can be. And I think there's so many international examples of the model just not paying out and results not being delivered and just government not being able to be held accountable in that model. And so that really is what scares me because I feel like it's so common in the international level and he's coming from that sphere, it could be something along those lines that we're dealing with.
Seth Klein (24:42)
And again, our experience with the Youth Climate Corps campaign is indicative of all of this, right? So much of the engagement we've had with federal leaders today struggles with this failure of imagination. And so often, even as these government officials start to appreciate the potential and the idea of the Youth Climate Corps, their default question becomes, but who would we send a check to? Right? And we're
They're pushing back and saying, no folks, you don't understand. You have to lead. You have to create the bold, ambitious program, new public program. You have to hire the young people and deploy them at scale on what's needed. And that is a real struggle, getting people to that place.
Bushra Asghar (25:29)
Yeah, it's almost like we're reminding politicians of just how much power they have. It's like step into your power.
Seth Klein (25:37)
Yeah, yeah. I'm always coming back to this quote from one of my mentors is this ⁓ guy Alex Himelfarb, who was clerk of the Privy Council in the last two Chretien years and the Martin years. Someone who's had a real influence on me. And he has this line he uses, and I end up quoting it a lot, which is that the most insidious legacy of 40 years of neoliberalism isn't the spending cuts or the tax cuts or the deregulation or the privatization. It is the sapping of our imagination and of our faith and our capacity to do big things together. And so we're all, our leaders are stuck thinking, how do we tweak the system to incentivize the private sector to do this? And they're not gonna come to our rescue.
Anjali Appadurai (26:27)
Exactly. Who's in charge here? You are. Okay, well, speaking of doing big things, we have Bushra who is one week out of a, almost two weeks out of a federal election campaign. Bushra, you ran in Mississauga streetsville. You did a fantastic job. And you know, from all the way over in BC, we could just see the energy of your campaign. It was all these young people, young racialized people, incredible volunteer presence. How are you doing?
Bushra Asghar (27:03)
feel really good. I won't lie, I'm really tired. I think we're all, yeah, deeply tired, but I think we're all really proud of ourselves. I mean, of course, the future is blurry. Like, I don't know exactly what's next. And I think a lot of us are also resting right now, but we're really excited about what we did. I think in a time where, yeah, like nationally, the NDP, you know, there were all these national narratives. And I think it's really important to know that this election, like those national narratives really won. Like it was really hard for local races to be able to beat those national narratives. But we still had so much momentum and so much energy ⁓ in a place where, you know, historically ⁓ no one has knocked on doors for the NDP. And so I think like, we did something historic in that. And I think what's really important is like in a moment where we're like, well, what is the future of the NDP? And like, what is the rebuilt going to look like? And there's like all these questions around this ⁓ party that holds such important space in the center left of, you know, Canadian national politics. ⁓ What I've always been saying, cause I grew up, I grew up in Mississauga, you know, it's like I would say it's a Liberal stronghold, kind of, and also it's almost like a two-party system out there because the NDP is just like completely absent. Oftentimes really just running ⁓ paper candidates, not putting a lot of effort into it or resources into it, energy into it. The EDAs are not active. The electoral district associations are not active in between electoral cycles. And so the, of course, the population doesn't really like identify as, you know, with the party.
And I think in this moment, it's really important that we do look to the suburbs and whatever the party decides, it chooses to invest in the suburbs and not just around the GTA, but around the greater Vancouver area, like anywhere they want to win. Because I think if this election shows us anything, it's how important the suburbs are to national politics and to the party that wins. And I think that is something that the Liberals and the conservatives know.
And that's why they go so hard. you ⁓ you can see it around the 905, like how much effort Poliev's conservatives have put in to building those relationships, ⁓ to making sure that the conservative party is this like multiracial big tent. Whereas I feel like we haven't seen the same effort from the NDP. ⁓ Unfortunately, I only really see them in places where I think that they know they're going to win. Right. And so it's these like politically convenient strategic decisions that are made. And I think over time they lose the demographics that they need the most to win. And we definitely saw that. And I think there's so much potential there is and like that's something that I learned, you know, like even if we lost and lost kind of bad, it was so cool because I can really proudly say like that the 2.3 or 2.5 % of the vote that I did get it was pro-Palestine, was pro-working class, was pro-jobs that are around, like formed around just transition, you know? And I think you can mobilize people in the suburbs around these issues if you are doing that work.
Seth Klein (30:39)
Can I just take a moment to say actually to both of you? ⁓ Because Anjali, you did this four years ago and Bushra, you did it this time out. ⁓ I think what you both did was very courageous. You know, it's really hard to be particularly young racialized woman and put yourself out there and not only put yourself out there, but then try to tell your own story that's more imaginative and visionary even than the platform of your own party. ⁓ deep respect to both of you for doing that. It's striking to me that both of you were caught in a situation where you only secured a nomination days before writ was dropped and ran these inspiring campaigns, but with no lead time. ⁓ And I think there's a lesson here that we should say to our listeners, which is, we are gonna have another election in a year or two and we need more justice and climate champions like the two of you are running next time. And don't wait till the last minute, start preparing now. Get your head around that idea now and start preparing now.
Anjali Appadurai (31:59)
Yeah.
In my case, it was that I left it to the last minute. In Bushra's case, think it was just procedural delays, I think. And that was across the board this time. That is a conversation for another time. But before we talk more about the NDP, Bushra, I'm just curious about this. It's true. I did this back in 2021, and you did this in such a beautiful way just now, which has run a true climate emergency campaign like you campaigned, you have such a command of the issues and you campaigned Fully with your full chest on what you believe in So I just want to hear a little bit about how that went at the doors. What was the response within the writing? When you just unabashedly talked about a true climate emergency response
Bushra Asghar (32:49)
Yeah, I was actually really shocked at how warm some of our doors were. And that only further kind of made me be like, actually, yeah, there is so much potential here for these conversations. Because in a time where I think across the country, historic NDP voters were voting for the Liberals, ⁓ because I was in a riding that just didn't have really any base for the NDP, I was working with all of the undecided voters. They were like, my God, there's this like shiny new option. Like, who is she? And they were just like happy that there was someone knocking on their door, wanting to talk to them. ⁓ I think I had a really good in with, you know, my spiel would always be like, hi, my name is Bushra Asghar, I'm a local. My mom worked at the local Tim Hortons for 15 years. And I think that like really resonated for people because they were like, ⁓ she is working class you know, the whole like sovereignty thing, Tim Hortons or identity. And then you talk to them about how your like mom was there and they're like, they just, the level of respect just goes so high. ⁓ But then they really like understand that, you you know, the struggle of being supported by someone who's made minimum wage and most politicians don't, right? The other thing that really helped me was the Youth Climate Corps campaign. It was like, hey, we're dealing with a decade high youth unemployment and I've been talking to politicians about it and they don't have the urgency that we require from our politicians to deal with these crisis. ⁓ it wasn't just from the youth perspective when we're talking about jobs, I was talking to a lot of parents who had kids in their houses that were just like, of course, unable to move out. ⁓ And of course, they're like, they don't want their kids in their house forever. ⁓ And so it was really interesting to be able to talk about economic insecurity from the perspective of the fact that the governments need to invest in job creation, you know, and not take austerity measures and how in the way or direction that we're moving, it's actually oppositional to what we need in this moment. So that was really cool. And I think we were able to flip a lot of conservatives to vote for us this election, which was really neat because yeah, that blue to orange pipeline is actually like pretty... pretty out, yeah, I think it's there, it's there, especially in the suburbs. I also saw a lot of like houses, ⁓ there was a tendency in my volunteers where they were like, my God, a conservative sign, like we shouldn't go. And we would always knock every door, even with the sign. It was so good because so many houses were split, you know, like I saw like the dads voting conservatives, the mom voting Liberals, the kids voting NDP. And so it was, the suburbs are just so interesting.
But I do think that they're a really good place to kind of be like, okay, where is the national population landing on these things? And then people understood climate. Like in Mississauga streets, especially like my street, my neighborhood, we've dealt with a lot of flooding, you know? And so it was really interesting because the conservative candidate I was running against, ⁓
She's like a sitting city councillor, she's been in power for 25 years, and so people could be like, yes, like I remember like Sue being actually super supportive when we were dealing with these floods. And for me, it was like a really good moment to be like, yes, but do you think that the conservative government will deliver on climate change to deal with the mitigation and adaptation that we need?
especially when they can't even say it, right? So you may have a local leader who may have been good in a response level, but large scale, at the end of the day, we're dealing with this as like an existential crisis and I don't see this party delivering. And so it was cool to be able to have these conversations and then also bring the issue of, know, property values and home insurance, kind of talking to folks in the language that they speak, right? Like I think it's, my writing was also like 80 % homeowners. The median income was like $130,000. So it was really important to be able to talk about climate through economics and not like economic security, you know, and what that means for them. This is their retirement plan. And what does, like what kind of a threat does climate, the climate crisis posed to their retirement plan. think it was important to bring that up. ⁓
Seth Klein (37:31)
Great, reality check.
Anjali Appadurai (37:33)
Yeah, fascinating. you know, the fact that you're having these tough conversations, even in homes with conservative science is it's so encouraging. Like this is what this is what grassroots campaigning is actually. And I don't think the vote count at the end was reflective of how rewarding people found those conversations or how they actually feel. You know, I don't think there were a lot of people who were going to vote for the NDP candidate right on the first try, especially in this election.
But those conversations plant seeds and those were my favorite conversations when I was running was talking to really tough conservative, staunchly conservative people. Those are just such juicy conversations. And you could see the energy that your campaign was generating. So I think you planted a lot of seeds this time around. So, you know, on that note, ⁓ where does that leave the NDP this election? I know that's a whole other conversation, but...
Seth, do you have any quick thoughts on that?
Seth Klein (38:35)
Well, the NDP obviously has a huge job to do and to rebuild. we're seeing a lot of eulogies written about the NDP, and I think those are premature. We're seeing ⁓ people saying, well, now we're going to follow the US and become a two-party system. And I would say not so fast. We're not going to stand up to the US by becoming more like the US, and among other things, by replicating their two-party system. It is our multi-party system that has won us many of the key programs and institutions that actually differentiate us from the US. ⁓ And I think the NDP has an opening. Are the Carney Liberals really gonna take on corporate power from the fossil fuel corporations to the corporate landlords and the grocery chains? Are they truly gonna do what it takes to confront the climate crisis?
I have my doubts, and if they aren't, that opens up political space. ⁓ So I hope, you know, in this leadership race that we're about to see, I hope it's going to be a robust race with lots of candidates and, you know, lots of signups. And it's going to be a battle for the soul and rebirth of the party and whether or not it's going to restore grassroots democracy ⁓ and have less centralization and passed out the corporate and fossil fuel lobbyists from the house? Or are we going to see those interests reassert their consolidation and their grip on the party? So it's going to be interesting, but there is an opening to claim that space.
Anjali Appadurai (40:20)
And I would say another opening. And that's why I'm thrilled for the leadership race, because the NDP had that opening over the past couple of years. Actually, they've had a lot of political space since the pandemic started, since the big shakeup in our economy started in 2020. ⁓ There was space for them to take and instead, I think we have ceded a lot of that space to the right and the conservatives came in and took that. So I hope the same as you, Seth, that this leadership race is that fresh bold vision coming in to reclaim that space once again as the third party. Basra any thoughts? I know you have lots of thoughts on this but...
Bushra Asghar (41:00)
Yeah, mean, I guess like a lot of what's that said, but at the same time, like I really hope to see the local like electoral district associations being much more supported or I feel like they're, yeah, they're the backbones of the party. And like, I think the future will really depend on to what degree these groups are supported or they take it upon themselves to like really be, you know, the NDP because...
I see that even in our small, like we're trying to rebuild our EDA, you know? From like nothing to now we've kind of built some structure with the election and it's like, okay, well, what does the future look like? But you build capacity, right? It's like any organizing campaign, we've just put everyone through this pressure test. Everyone knows now what they're doing, but they don't know what the work of an EDA is in between elections. And ⁓ at the end of the day, we're trying to rebuild those relationships with our local Muslim community, with the unions in the area. ⁓ But yeah.
Seth Klein (42:02)
Yeah, I mean, I do think there's some final marching orders for us in the climate movement here. ⁓ Obviously, climate has dropped off the top of the priority list. We need to get it back there. And to do that, we need to stop boring people. There's a real risk that we just talk about these kinds of technocratic ideas with the Liberals. can't do that again. We have to captivate people.
We have to make a compelling offer to young people and working people that we can do this in a way that actually improves their lives.
Anjali Appadurai (42:36)
Absolutely. Bushra, any thoughts on where we go from here?
Bushra Asghar (42:40)
Well, let's win a bold and brash you've come across this year. what, yeah, I think like the YC is so beautiful because A, we've done so much work on it. It's like, so we're so close to winning, but it answers like it could be that, you know, example of what is possible with great imagination and drive and how many people across the political spectrum like need these offers as Seth would say so direly.
Anjali Appadurai (43:08)
Yeah, the YCC is a true example of an economically imaginative policy idea that appeals across the board. Well, let's leave it there for now, but thank you so much, Seth and Bushra. So great to hear about your experience, Bushra. And, you know, there's lots more to be said and lots more to be seen as we go into an NDP leadership race and potentially another election in a year or two. But for now, these are our thoughts and this was our podcast at the Climate Emergency Unit, Break In Case of Emergency. Please do like and subscribe on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. And we will catch you next time.
Hello and welcome back to Break In Case of Emergency, a podcast about mobilizing Canada for the climate crisis with audacious solutions rooted in justice and workers' rights. I am Anjali Appadurai and I'm here with my two wonderful colleagues, Seth Klein and Bushra Asghar. Hi guys.
Bushra Asghar (00:24)
I'm excited to be here today.
Seth Klein (00:27)
Hi, nice to be with you.
Anjali Appadurai (00:29)
We're so excited to have this team together, especially Bushra, who just completed an incredibly inspiring run in Mississauga-Streetsville for the NDP. More on that later. But for now, this is our first episode since the 2025 election. And it's our first kind of what the hell just happened on air. So let's talk about that. What the hell just happened?
We know that we have a Liberal minority, a very narrow Liberal minority. We know that the conservatives did better than any of us expected. We know that the NDP was decimated. We know that the bloc also lost seats. So these are the things that have been much talked about. But Seth, I'll throw over to you. ⁓
Seth Klein (01:21)
Well, I mean, the first reaction for a lot of people was few. mean, just to appreciate the context, only a few months ago, everyone in our movements just saw a sweeping conservative majority as a foregone conclusion. So let this be a lesson that in politics, you just never know. Things can change dramatically ⁓ and very quickly.
Anjali Appadurai (01:46)
You know, I have to say, sorry, Seth, for our listeners, when it was what was a January or February when CBC was predicting a 99 % chance of a conservative supermajority, it was Seth who was like, nah, I don't believe it.
Seth Klein (02:04)
Yeah, except you know what? Here's the truth. I was just trying to get everybody motivated. I didn't believe in myself. ⁓ And yet here we are. so it was an election for the ages, I think, in terms of those historic firsts. ⁓ You know, I think lots of us are breathing a sigh of relief. We dodged a bullet. But I also think it's important that we view this as a reprieve. We narrowly dodged a bullet. You know, we're living in an era with a very divided electorate. It broke narrowly for Trump in the US. It broke narrowly for the Liberals in Carney in Canada. This time, it is, as you say, a minority. So we're looking at another election in a year or two. And it could just as easily go the other way next time. We also saw not record turnout, but a return to higher turnout. you know, there was a 68 % turnout, which is higher than it's been in many elections. Except I can't remember an election where so many people were ⁓ simultaneously highly motivated to vote and yet deeply uninspired. ⁓ You know, this was like a vibes election. There was so little content. It remains to me a scandal that we did not get costed platforms until like the very dying days of this election. ⁓ So it was really about these core vibes on these core questions.
Bushra Asghar (03:41)
Also Seth, I would also say it was really interesting how ⁓ it was a snap election. So I think for a snap election, it had such a high turnout. And I completely agree. think it was ⁓ advanced vote that we started to, I think one in four people at that point had voted. Especially that was my check on the door during the advanced vote. And at that time, we hadn't seen cause of platforms for most of the parties. So it was...
Seth Klein (04:10)
Amazing
Bushra Asghar (04:11)
It was really worrying for me because yeah, like a lot of folks were just voting based on vibes as you said.
Seth Klein (04:19)
Yeah, really telling. so in terms of an outcome, this is also, and many people have noted this, both the Liberals and the Conservatives gained both popular vote and seats combined. They both secured over 40 % of the popular vote. We have not seen that in decades. And so this was really this consolidation behind these two parties. And as you said, off the top, big piece of that was the collapse of the NDP, much of which went to the Liberals, know, this, this understandable impulse to do anything you could to block Trump, to block Pollievre. But importantly, particularly among millennial voters and working class voters, some of those NDP voters went conservative. And then a few key writings, you know, in the Windsor area. ⁓ few other pockets, traditional NDP strongholds, those seats didn't go Liberal, they went conservative.
Anjali Appadurai (05:24)
Yeah, the conservatives gained 23 seats in this election, which in any other context would be a historical gain. But except that it was outdone narrowly by the Liberals. You know, people are celebrating and I know that so many everyday Canadians did go out earnestly to vote to stave off the MAGA aligned ⁓ conservatives.
And we are feeling like we won. We're feeling like, you know, that this is a vindication that Canada doesn't want MAGA. But is it really like for me, this is actually a very worrying result. We have people like Jamil Javani, who is the bestie of JD Vance, talking ⁓ very confidently and is re-empowered. And we have people like Aaron Gunn on the island who were voted in as a result of the vote splitting. And these are dangerous, dangerous people. These are not just regular conservative MPs. These are people with extremist views. For me, this is ⁓ pretty scary, ⁓ actually sort of edging towards MAGA trend. But yeah, what are some other, what does this say about the future? What are some warning signs or some?or some happy signs for the future from this election. Bushra, what do you think?
Bushra Asghar (06:53)
I think honestly, it shows that we have a lot of work to do, right? Like what Seth was saying earlier, like the groups of like young people, ⁓ the racialized community, the working class community, these are people that we are seeing that the conservative party has built a lot of like support around. They've really built a tent where they've like brought these groups in. These are voters that are historically like voting for the NDP or more progressive parties, but are now seeing themselves more aligned with the Conservative Party. And I do think that we should credit the party because they've done incredible work. And we see this in places like the Greater Toronto area, where a lot of folks in the suburbs have voted for the Conservatives this election, specifically around issues of economic uncertainty, right? Like a lot of young people and newcomers and second generation immigrants are just like not seeing that economic future that once Canadians saw for themselves. And in this moment of extreme economic anxiety, ⁓ they don't align with the Liberals and they're honestly really pissed off at what the chances are looking for them. I talked to a lot of folks that were like, I'm leaving this country to the countries that they immigrated from, which was really a jarring conversation, but due to high levels of joblessness. then, mean, of course there's like, I think this election wasn't just about tariffs and the Trump threat. It was also on the conservative end, a lot of people voting for their economic future. It was about crime and public safety. Those local issues were really driven forward by the conservative party and especially in places like the GTA where we've seen this like narrative of crime, joblessness, like become so big but ⁓ created to be so large. ⁓ These were issues that people were voting for at the poll.
Seth Klein (09:06)
You know, I think of these warning signs, looking at ⁓ the, you know, a few of the big polling firms have done ⁓ exit polling now, looking at different demographics and how they voted. ⁓ You've already noted, and we talked about this shift among some working class voters from the NDP to the Conservatives, that's worrisome. In terms of age demographics, it's interesting because for a long time over the last two years, the conservatives had a commanding lead among all young people. When the election actually happened, what the exit polls are saying is that the Liberals beat the conservatives among older voters. Interestingly, they also beat the conservatives among the Gen Zs. The one demographic, and it's the biggest demographic cohort in the country where the conservatives won, is millennials.
And millennials are the generation, I think, who are really feeling that the promise has been broken to them, particularly when we think about things like housing, where they're well enough advanced in their careers, where they should have found economic security, and yet they haven't. ⁓ And then the concerns among youth in general, particularly young men breaking conservative.
And I'm sure lots of people saw the student vote results. You know, every election ⁓ there's this group that holds the student vote and historically it produces kind of progressive minority governments. But this time, for the first time, the conservatives won the student vote. So I think if we don't get our shit together, we're in big trouble. With the demographic trends are not breaking our way.
⁓ And to my mind, the key lesson out of all of this is that incrementalism, neoliberal incrementalism is no match for a surging populist right. The reprieve happened because in the wake of Trump's chaos, we saw this consolidation around these centrist Liberal parties. Interestingly, a week after us, Australia had almost an identical election, where a few months ago the Conservatives were supposed to win and instead the Labour Party won a majority, a kind of centrist Labour Party there. So that's how it broke this time in the context of Trump's madness. But if those governments, whether Labour in Australia or Carney in Canada, if they don't deliver it's gonna break the other way next time. And my fear is that they won't deliver because neoliberal incrementalism can never get ahead of the curve on the crises we face. Housing, poison drugs, climate, you name it. When your response is too incremental, you just never get ahead of it and you under deliver and then the populist right capitalizes on that.
Maybe we'll see with Carney. He's talking big like he doesn't want to be incremental, but it will all be about whether or not they deliver.
Anjali Appadurai (12:33)
That's so true. And ⁓ you're right in that there is a trend, an unmistakable trend, where Liberal incrementalism over the past 10 plus years has taken us closer and closer and closer to this new brand of conservatism. It's taken us away from ⁓ actual emergency level action. It's taken us ⁓ dangerously close to what's happening south of the border.
And that should be a clear warning sign to us because the trend is going that way. As you said, in a couple of years, this could very well mean that the conservatives take back their win. And ⁓ so I think for me, it's just being really careful not to fall into complacency or vindication because of the perception of staving off the right. The other thing that was so interesting for me, you know, I knocked on a few doors as a volunteer this campaign, so many people at the doors had this like the same response, which was like, you know, I'm a progressive, but you know, this election, it's about the economy. It was kind of like, I would love to vote differently, but I got to do the responsible thing. And it's so interesting because the conservatives, further to what you were saying, Bushra, for young people as well have framed themselves as the party of the economy.
Fiscal conservatism has become synonymous with economic responsibility. And that to me is the most damning sign of all of the lack of economic imagination on offer from what should have been our progressive parties.
The conservatives should not be the party of the economy. We should be the party of the economy. You know, we should be talking about economic futures that are bold and different. We should be talking about economic solutions to the crises at hand. A fear of government spending and pro-austerity should not be considered being responsible with the economy. And young people right now are sort of seeking this responsible, a responsible hand to guide them to the future.
I don't know if you've seen all those memes about banker daddy, Carney. He's like the nation's father figure. We just wanted someone responsible, especially for young people. And so the conservatives have positioned themselves as such. mean, the Liberals have done a better job of it for now, but there's still no doubt that people flock to Carney because of his economic credentials, which are very neoliberal, which are further to the right of Trudeau by far. And that to me is so sad.
Bushra Asghar (15:23)
I think it will be really interesting to see like two years out, like will Carney's government create the jobs that young people need, right? Which so many people so desperately need like across the board and not just young people, like right before we started this conversation, I was telling Anjali how we're dealing with like a 6.4 % unemployment rate across the country right now with the auto sectors. But you know, this it kind of goes back to messaging, right? Yeah, like the conservatives only talk about jobs. And the thing is like, we can talk about jobs and job creation in an equitable way, you know, because our wages have stagnated and no one is really talking about how ⁓ hard we're working today, but how far, how little are that's going. And the conservatives have been able to capture on that sentiment in such a beautiful way even though we know that they won't be able to really deliver on that when they're in power.
Seth Klein (16:25)
Yeah, never underestimate the ability of the conservative project to capitalize on the conditions it creates. And the Liberals don't help them, ⁓ or even progressive NDP provincial governments sometimes. I think the danger is always that in the context that Anjali just described, if the impulse among our so-called progressive governments is to default to austerity and restricting spending,
They almost guarantee they're under delivery, right? You will not solve the problems in education and healthcare and housing with an austerity mindset. You will only rag the puck and then allow the conservatives to take full advantage of it.
Anjali Appadurai (17:10)
And every party played into that fear this time. Every party was competing over who could do the bigger tax cuts, know, feeding into embedded fear of public spending, a fear of investment at a time where we want to be independent from the states. And that's what it's going to require. It's going to require that massive investment. So, so uninspiring.
Seth Klein (17:37)
By the way, our own organization's experience with our flagship campaign for the Youth Climate Corps epitomizes all of this, right? So we have a government saying, build, baby, build. We're going to build a speed you've never seen. And then when we finally went on the Youth Climate Corps, it's like, we're going to create this thing that's going to provide paid positions for 500 young people a year, which would fit in my kid's elementary school. And so you've got this huge disconnect between the identification of the problem and the promise, the language of the promise, and then under deliver on the practical ⁓ program on the ground.
Bushra Asghar (18:19)
So it really will be like on us and I think folks to remind the government that will be formed next, ⁓ this coming Monday on how important it is to ensure that these, the delivery is bold, right? Actually, I have a question to Seth or even Anjali about the Liberal platform. So I feel like as we went into the election, they were really like posturing a little bit more to the right. They were talking about the military a lot, you know.
I think really speaking, trying to get more conservative voters out. I think like even the cabinet that they formed for one week before the election, like they took out a lot of ministries, like the Ministry of Labor wasn't in it. The Ministry of Youth and Women and Gender Equality didn't make the cut. A lot of people at that time were just saying that, you know, this is not going to be something that they do long-term. It's just kind of like a momentary episode.
What is your take on what the future holds? Do you think that they're gonna continue to kind of posture and cater to the right in this moment? ⁓
Seth Klein (19:29)
You know, we'll see when the cabinet is named and the ministerial mandate letters are provided and then ultimately the budget next month. You know, it's funny, historically, the line about the Liberals is that they campaign from the left and govern from the right. It's quite positive. The hope now is that they actually did the reverse, that they campaigned on the right trying to peel support away from the conservatives and that now that the election is behind them, they'll govern more from the left. Maybe. We'll see.
We'll see.
Anjali Appadurai (20:02)
Yeah, I hate the fact that I even have hope for that, but you know, I do because Carney is an outsider and because we've seen him, you know, in the same room as some of the greatest climate leaders from the global south that we know. And we know that he understands climate in a very international kind of way. just remains to be like, we know he understands the issue. know how, how much ⁓ we know that he knows how much Canada needs to step up its leadership, ⁓ internationally and domestically. It just remains to be seen how much he follows through on that.
Seth Klein (20:39)
I started to read his book and I will say this, he is indeed an extremely smart person, ⁓ a big thinker. And unlike many leaders who might give lip service to certain crises but they don't really get it, I actually think he does. ⁓ And I think he's really smart. ⁓
What I'm not sure of yet and remains to be seen is whether or not he can get unstuck and break out of a neoliberal defaults approach to things in the face of the crises that we face. And again, I think the answer is we'll see.
Anjali Appadurai (21:25)
Seth, you know, when thinking about the climate emergency response that we need urgently in the next five years, do you think that Carney's vision to build baby build is going to be part of that emergency response? Do you think any part of what he has signaled is part of a true climate emergency response?
Seth Klein (21:48)
Well, we'll see. mean, I've written about and shared my own take on Carney's ⁓ climate plan when he was running for leader. And my worry is that, again, it was like his approach to many things. There's a base assumption that it's the private sector that will do the building and that ultimately the role of government is to incentivize the private sector through tax cuts or tax credits or financial disclosure rules or what have you and then everyone will come to their senses and do the right thing. I don't think that's going to happen. I actually think we have enough evidence that that doesn't work. The keystone pieces of the Liberal approach to climate for the last number of years has been carbon pricing and this big package of tax credits. They have started to bend the curve, but not nearly at the pitch and pace required.
In particular, those tax credits have been undersubscribed. The idea is, there must be all these private sector interests that are just waiting to decarbonize our economy and do all these amazing things if only they had a 30 % tax credit. Well, there aren't. And this is the problem when it comes to climate. So much of what we actually need to decarbonize, whether it's high-speed rail or renewable energy or ⁓ an inter-provincial grid. These are inherently public sector projects. There's nobody in the private sector waiting to be incentivized into the ring. We just have to do it ourselves. And whether or not Carney's prepared to make that shift, I'm nervous about that, but I keep repeating it. We'll see.
Bushra Asghar (23:42)
I feel like what keeps me up at night is that I really see the Carney model being like the public-private partnership model. And then we'll just have like all these big infrastructure projects in like a PPP model and they'll never get finished with like with like very low levels of transparency. And yeah, but I mean, even like the high speed rail project that was just introduced right before the election, I'm pretty sure is proposition to be a public-private partnership. And in Ontario, we've seen just how bad it can be. And I think there's so many international examples of the model just not paying out and results not being delivered and just government not being able to be held accountable in that model. And so that really is what scares me because I feel like it's so common in the international level and he's coming from that sphere, it could be something along those lines that we're dealing with.
Seth Klein (24:42)
And again, our experience with the Youth Climate Corps campaign is indicative of all of this, right? So much of the engagement we've had with federal leaders today struggles with this failure of imagination. And so often, even as these government officials start to appreciate the potential and the idea of the Youth Climate Corps, their default question becomes, but who would we send a check to? Right? And we're
They're pushing back and saying, no folks, you don't understand. You have to lead. You have to create the bold, ambitious program, new public program. You have to hire the young people and deploy them at scale on what's needed. And that is a real struggle, getting people to that place.
Bushra Asghar (25:29)
Yeah, it's almost like we're reminding politicians of just how much power they have. It's like step into your power.
Seth Klein (25:37)
Yeah, yeah. I'm always coming back to this quote from one of my mentors is this ⁓ guy Alex Himelfarb, who was clerk of the Privy Council in the last two Chretien years and the Martin years. Someone who's had a real influence on me. And he has this line he uses, and I end up quoting it a lot, which is that the most insidious legacy of 40 years of neoliberalism isn't the spending cuts or the tax cuts or the deregulation or the privatization. It is the sapping of our imagination and of our faith and our capacity to do big things together. And so we're all, our leaders are stuck thinking, how do we tweak the system to incentivize the private sector to do this? And they're not gonna come to our rescue.
Anjali Appadurai (26:27)
Exactly. Who's in charge here? You are. Okay, well, speaking of doing big things, we have Bushra who is one week out of a, almost two weeks out of a federal election campaign. Bushra, you ran in Mississauga streetsville. You did a fantastic job. And you know, from all the way over in BC, we could just see the energy of your campaign. It was all these young people, young racialized people, incredible volunteer presence. How are you doing?
Bushra Asghar (27:03)
feel really good. I won't lie, I'm really tired. I think we're all, yeah, deeply tired, but I think we're all really proud of ourselves. I mean, of course, the future is blurry. Like, I don't know exactly what's next. And I think a lot of us are also resting right now, but we're really excited about what we did. I think in a time where, yeah, like nationally, the NDP, you know, there were all these national narratives. And I think it's really important to know that this election, like those national narratives really won. Like it was really hard for local races to be able to beat those national narratives. But we still had so much momentum and so much energy ⁓ in a place where, you know, historically ⁓ no one has knocked on doors for the NDP. And so I think like, we did something historic in that. And I think what's really important is like in a moment where we're like, well, what is the future of the NDP? And like, what is the rebuilt going to look like? And there's like all these questions around this ⁓ party that holds such important space in the center left of, you know, Canadian national politics. ⁓ What I've always been saying, cause I grew up, I grew up in Mississauga, you know, it's like I would say it's a Liberal stronghold, kind of, and also it's almost like a two-party system out there because the NDP is just like completely absent. Oftentimes really just running ⁓ paper candidates, not putting a lot of effort into it or resources into it, energy into it. The EDAs are not active. The electoral district associations are not active in between electoral cycles. And so the, of course, the population doesn't really like identify as, you know, with the party.
And I think in this moment, it's really important that we do look to the suburbs and whatever the party decides, it chooses to invest in the suburbs and not just around the GTA, but around the greater Vancouver area, like anywhere they want to win. Because I think if this election shows us anything, it's how important the suburbs are to national politics and to the party that wins. And I think that is something that the Liberals and the conservatives know.
And that's why they go so hard. you ⁓ you can see it around the 905, like how much effort Poliev's conservatives have put in to building those relationships, ⁓ to making sure that the conservative party is this like multiracial big tent. Whereas I feel like we haven't seen the same effort from the NDP. ⁓ Unfortunately, I only really see them in places where I think that they know they're going to win. Right. And so it's these like politically convenient strategic decisions that are made. And I think over time they lose the demographics that they need the most to win. And we definitely saw that. And I think there's so much potential there is and like that's something that I learned, you know, like even if we lost and lost kind of bad, it was so cool because I can really proudly say like that the 2.3 or 2.5 % of the vote that I did get it was pro-Palestine, was pro-working class, was pro-jobs that are around, like formed around just transition, you know? And I think you can mobilize people in the suburbs around these issues if you are doing that work.
Seth Klein (30:39)
Can I just take a moment to say actually to both of you? ⁓ Because Anjali, you did this four years ago and Bushra, you did it this time out. ⁓ I think what you both did was very courageous. You know, it's really hard to be particularly young racialized woman and put yourself out there and not only put yourself out there, but then try to tell your own story that's more imaginative and visionary even than the platform of your own party. ⁓ deep respect to both of you for doing that. It's striking to me that both of you were caught in a situation where you only secured a nomination days before writ was dropped and ran these inspiring campaigns, but with no lead time. ⁓ And I think there's a lesson here that we should say to our listeners, which is, we are gonna have another election in a year or two and we need more justice and climate champions like the two of you are running next time. And don't wait till the last minute, start preparing now. Get your head around that idea now and start preparing now.
Anjali Appadurai (31:59)
Yeah.
In my case, it was that I left it to the last minute. In Bushra's case, think it was just procedural delays, I think. And that was across the board this time. That is a conversation for another time. But before we talk more about the NDP, Bushra, I'm just curious about this. It's true. I did this back in 2021, and you did this in such a beautiful way just now, which has run a true climate emergency campaign like you campaigned, you have such a command of the issues and you campaigned Fully with your full chest on what you believe in So I just want to hear a little bit about how that went at the doors. What was the response within the writing? When you just unabashedly talked about a true climate emergency response
Bushra Asghar (32:49)
Yeah, I was actually really shocked at how warm some of our doors were. And that only further kind of made me be like, actually, yeah, there is so much potential here for these conversations. Because in a time where I think across the country, historic NDP voters were voting for the Liberals, ⁓ because I was in a riding that just didn't have really any base for the NDP, I was working with all of the undecided voters. They were like, my God, there's this like shiny new option. Like, who is she? And they were just like happy that there was someone knocking on their door, wanting to talk to them. ⁓ I think I had a really good in with, you know, my spiel would always be like, hi, my name is Bushra Asghar, I'm a local. My mom worked at the local Tim Hortons for 15 years. And I think that like really resonated for people because they were like, ⁓ she is working class you know, the whole like sovereignty thing, Tim Hortons or identity. And then you talk to them about how your like mom was there and they're like, they just, the level of respect just goes so high. ⁓ But then they really like understand that, you you know, the struggle of being supported by someone who's made minimum wage and most politicians don't, right? The other thing that really helped me was the Youth Climate Corps campaign. It was like, hey, we're dealing with a decade high youth unemployment and I've been talking to politicians about it and they don't have the urgency that we require from our politicians to deal with these crisis. ⁓ it wasn't just from the youth perspective when we're talking about jobs, I was talking to a lot of parents who had kids in their houses that were just like, of course, unable to move out. ⁓ And of course, they're like, they don't want their kids in their house forever. ⁓ And so it was really interesting to be able to talk about economic insecurity from the perspective of the fact that the governments need to invest in job creation, you know, and not take austerity measures and how in the way or direction that we're moving, it's actually oppositional to what we need in this moment. So that was really cool. And I think we were able to flip a lot of conservatives to vote for us this election, which was really neat because yeah, that blue to orange pipeline is actually like pretty... pretty out, yeah, I think it's there, it's there, especially in the suburbs. I also saw a lot of like houses, ⁓ there was a tendency in my volunteers where they were like, my God, a conservative sign, like we shouldn't go. And we would always knock every door, even with the sign. It was so good because so many houses were split, you know, like I saw like the dads voting conservatives, the mom voting Liberals, the kids voting NDP. And so it was, the suburbs are just so interesting.
But I do think that they're a really good place to kind of be like, okay, where is the national population landing on these things? And then people understood climate. Like in Mississauga streets, especially like my street, my neighborhood, we've dealt with a lot of flooding, you know? And so it was really interesting because the conservative candidate I was running against, ⁓
She's like a sitting city councillor, she's been in power for 25 years, and so people could be like, yes, like I remember like Sue being actually super supportive when we were dealing with these floods. And for me, it was like a really good moment to be like, yes, but do you think that the conservative government will deliver on climate change to deal with the mitigation and adaptation that we need?
especially when they can't even say it, right? So you may have a local leader who may have been good in a response level, but large scale, at the end of the day, we're dealing with this as like an existential crisis and I don't see this party delivering. And so it was cool to be able to have these conversations and then also bring the issue of, know, property values and home insurance, kind of talking to folks in the language that they speak, right? Like I think it's, my writing was also like 80 % homeowners. The median income was like $130,000. So it was really important to be able to talk about climate through economics and not like economic security, you know, and what that means for them. This is their retirement plan. And what does, like what kind of a threat does climate, the climate crisis posed to their retirement plan. think it was important to bring that up. ⁓
Seth Klein (37:31)
Great, reality check.
Anjali Appadurai (37:33)
Yeah, fascinating. you know, the fact that you're having these tough conversations, even in homes with conservative science is it's so encouraging. Like this is what this is what grassroots campaigning is actually. And I don't think the vote count at the end was reflective of how rewarding people found those conversations or how they actually feel. You know, I don't think there were a lot of people who were going to vote for the NDP candidate right on the first try, especially in this election.
But those conversations plant seeds and those were my favorite conversations when I was running was talking to really tough conservative, staunchly conservative people. Those are just such juicy conversations. And you could see the energy that your campaign was generating. So I think you planted a lot of seeds this time around. So, you know, on that note, ⁓ where does that leave the NDP this election? I know that's a whole other conversation, but...
Seth, do you have any quick thoughts on that?
Seth Klein (38:35)
Well, the NDP obviously has a huge job to do and to rebuild. we're seeing a lot of eulogies written about the NDP, and I think those are premature. We're seeing ⁓ people saying, well, now we're going to follow the US and become a two-party system. And I would say not so fast. We're not going to stand up to the US by becoming more like the US, and among other things, by replicating their two-party system. It is our multi-party system that has won us many of the key programs and institutions that actually differentiate us from the US. ⁓ And I think the NDP has an opening. Are the Carney Liberals really gonna take on corporate power from the fossil fuel corporations to the corporate landlords and the grocery chains? Are they truly gonna do what it takes to confront the climate crisis?
I have my doubts, and if they aren't, that opens up political space. ⁓ So I hope, you know, in this leadership race that we're about to see, I hope it's going to be a robust race with lots of candidates and, you know, lots of signups. And it's going to be a battle for the soul and rebirth of the party and whether or not it's going to restore grassroots democracy ⁓ and have less centralization and passed out the corporate and fossil fuel lobbyists from the house? Or are we going to see those interests reassert their consolidation and their grip on the party? So it's going to be interesting, but there is an opening to claim that space.
Anjali Appadurai (40:20)
And I would say another opening. And that's why I'm thrilled for the leadership race, because the NDP had that opening over the past couple of years. Actually, they've had a lot of political space since the pandemic started, since the big shakeup in our economy started in 2020. ⁓ There was space for them to take and instead, I think we have ceded a lot of that space to the right and the conservatives came in and took that. So I hope the same as you, Seth, that this leadership race is that fresh bold vision coming in to reclaim that space once again as the third party. Basra any thoughts? I know you have lots of thoughts on this but...
Bushra Asghar (41:00)
Yeah, mean, I guess like a lot of what's that said, but at the same time, like I really hope to see the local like electoral district associations being much more supported or I feel like they're, yeah, they're the backbones of the party. And like, I think the future will really depend on to what degree these groups are supported or they take it upon themselves to like really be, you know, the NDP because...
I see that even in our small, like we're trying to rebuild our EDA, you know? From like nothing to now we've kind of built some structure with the election and it's like, okay, well, what does the future look like? But you build capacity, right? It's like any organizing campaign, we've just put everyone through this pressure test. Everyone knows now what they're doing, but they don't know what the work of an EDA is in between elections. And ⁓ at the end of the day, we're trying to rebuild those relationships with our local Muslim community, with the unions in the area. ⁓ But yeah.
Seth Klein (42:02)
Yeah, I mean, I do think there's some final marching orders for us in the climate movement here. ⁓ Obviously, climate has dropped off the top of the priority list. We need to get it back there. And to do that, we need to stop boring people. There's a real risk that we just talk about these kinds of technocratic ideas with the Liberals. can't do that again. We have to captivate people.
We have to make a compelling offer to young people and working people that we can do this in a way that actually improves their lives.
Anjali Appadurai (42:36)
Absolutely. Bushra, any thoughts on where we go from here?
Bushra Asghar (42:40)
Well, let's win a bold and brash you've come across this year. what, yeah, I think like the YC is so beautiful because A, we've done so much work on it. It's like, so we're so close to winning, but it answers like it could be that, you know, example of what is possible with great imagination and drive and how many people across the political spectrum like need these offers as Seth would say so direly.
Anjali Appadurai (43:08)
Yeah, the YCC is a true example of an economically imaginative policy idea that appeals across the board. Well, let's leave it there for now, but thank you so much, Seth and Bushra. So great to hear about your experience, Bushra. And, you know, there's lots more to be said and lots more to be seen as we go into an NDP leadership race and potentially another election in a year or two. But for now, these are our thoughts and this was our podcast at the Climate Emergency Unit, Break In Case of Emergency. Please do like and subscribe on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. And we will catch you next time.
