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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to brand New from the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
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Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Wilfeeda.
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Speaker 1: And what's new is that this is our final episode of the season, our first season.
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Speaker 2: Oh no, I cannot believe it. Where did the time go? Marisa?
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Speaker 1: I mean, this has been a really great journey and a learning experience for us, and hopefully a learning experience a bit for those of you who have been good enough to listen, and so thought we'd share actually some of what we have learned about doing this first season and the content we've created from you.
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Speaker 3: Well, we have lots of different people from all different ages listening.
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Speaker 2: Marisa.
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Speaker 1: I was so thrilled to hear that we really aspired to have this content speak to people at different stages of their careers.
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Speaker 3: And we got all the gens. We got Gen Z, we got millennials, we got Gen.
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Speaker 1: X, we got all the gens.
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Speaker 2: I love that no Gen Alpha yet, but that's the I think that's great.
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Speaker 1: So thank you. Thank you for sharing it with your friends, thank you for encouraging your colleagues. And what's been really gratifying is to hear from some people that aren't even directly in our industry, but just find an interesting to learn about. Because the great thing about as we've talked from the beginning about covering the world of team right, we haven't used that phrase in a bit, but technology, entertainment, advertising, marketing, and media, is that it's part of culture. So everyone understands it on some level, everyone's connected to it, everyone wants to immerse in it to varying degrees, and so I hope we've decoded that a little bit. We also have people from coast to coast listening, so thank you for that. And then the last big thing I guess we learned is what you like to hear about, right, Stephen, definitely.
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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, for me, I think when you actually get this kind of green room, you know, kind of insider take, it's always interesting. But now to hear the feedback directly from our listeners that they really enjoy hearing that, and I think it's about the authenticity that we share and you know, kind of like this no bullshit, Hey this works, this doesn't work. This is what happens when you're in the C suite, this is what's happening at these different events. I feel like that is a way that folks can really glean something that is truly kind of real, and I don't know, it's been great to hear that feedback from our listeners.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the inside look because it's easy to read an article, it's easy to even watch a video about our industry on the web. But we wanted to make this about genuine conversations. So it is nice to hear that that's what you're liking. And it works out well to give a little bit of our own personal take because we just got back, both of us from one of, if not potentially the biggest of the industry conferences, which is the Association of National Advertisers Masters of Marketing or the ANA Masters of Marketing another conference. I know it was conference season. I don't usually go to this many in a row, but it worked out well well.
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Speaker 3: We were also there because they wanted us to do some panels. Actually we share some of our insights take brand New on the Road, which was a lot of fun.
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Speaker 1: What's fun. So let's jump right into this being our hot topic, and the way we've thought about our hot topic is a bunch of questions or prompts that we're going to give ourselves inspired from being at the ANA. So we're going to cover you're ready for this, things we heard and learned, things we shared or talked about, things we didn't completely agree with that should be juicy, and then of course we have to end on a positive things we loved, all right, So I thought i'd kick this one off. Is that okay with you, Let's do it.
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Speaker 2: Let's get into it, all right.
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Speaker 1: So I'm going to start with our best or favorite things we heard or learned across these few days. And since you prompted this, Stephen, that we got to be on a panel together taking brand New on the road, I have to say that I love what we learned on that panel. It was you and I speaking, of course, together with our friends and Gail Troberman, who's actually the chief marketing officer of iHeartMedia. And what was great is that Gail opened it and we had a very robust discussion that followed, but she opened the panel sharing some research they commissioned that speaks to the disconnect between what sometimes marketers think and prioritize and value and what average American consumers think. And I'm going to give you a couple of cool examples from what she shared. So, for example, what's cool, you'd think it would be somewhat similar or maybe geographic. But what's cool to consumers is traveling in the US and barbecues. Well, it turns out what's cooled to marketers is European travel and going to the gym. I must be more of a consumer than a marketer because I think I prefer barbecue. So here's a couple more NFTs. We haven't even talked about NFTs that much in this season one, which just shows how certain things in market a media become fads, not trends. But who has never heard of an NFT among marketers? Zero percent of marketers, So okay, marketers stayed with it objects we do so zero present, meaning one hundred percent of marketers have heard of NFTs, whereas sixty percent of consumers have only heard of them. That means forty percent have not so huge difference in that regard. And then I'll give you one last one and then turn it over to you. This one made me giggle because my husband and I certainly binge the show succession, And of course you think about the world of media that it depicts, So who's never heard of succession. Only three percent of marketers, a whopping sixty two percent of consumers have never heard of succession. So maybe what we think is happening in culture with certainty has some variability if we don't really plug into people all across the country. So I thought that was fascinating and fun and interesting, and I think it gave us a really nice launching pad to discuss us talking from a place of truth and authenticity and not the fabricated view that sometimes marketers can great. So how about you, what was your best favorite thing that you heard or learned.
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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed the theme for this year's A and A conference, Force for Growth and Force for Good. For me, I believe it's an end. While I love hearing about all of the marketing stories and everyone loves to show their ads, and you know, everyone talks about all the great things they're doing in their companies, I really believe the whole idea of focusing on growth the business element of what we do as marketers in this industry is truly redefining the markets that we're in. And whether it was you know, proct Or Coke or Mars or you know, all the different brands that kind of get up there and they're basically telling all these great success stories. At the end of the day, they're talking about, you know, either new categories or really established categories, but there's still ways that you could grow, still ways that you could the pie. And I think there's a mindset approach to that, which is, are you in a limited market where you're just trying to steal share or are you actually growing the pie? Are you actually expanding share? Are you looking at consumers in a wider lens? And I think that is the business conversation that really resonates either with me or certainly with other C suite executives like your CFO, your CEO. You're really going to want to understand how am I growing this business? And I think when we get out of just looking at shiny objects or just talking about our ads or spots and dots, when you're really talking about, Hey, I'm going to expand this category by twenty five percent because I have this kind of insight into an innovation or a product, or or the way that we could actually expand the category by talking to new customers Like that is really exciting, and I feel like that is where cmos need to be driving growth.
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Speaker 1: So I love that you just went to talking about growth because it really relates to what I felt was the best thing that I got to talk about while there is on another panel actually, a couple days.
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Speaker 2: Later, they wanted to hear from there.
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Speaker 1: Well, this one felt a little more formal. Lucky enough to do it with my colleague Chris, And then there were some other CMO executives moderated by McKenzie, and they opened up with some research that they did with the ANA and this stat I don't know, this could even skew a little bit into things that I didn't totally agree with. I mean the stats. The stat it was that CEOs overwhelmingly focus on revenue growth while only thirty three percent of cmos have revenue growth as their top KPI. Well, of course you hear that, and I saw a few friends post just that stat to LinkedIn, and then you have people commenting, well, what else are they focused on? But I think it's very important that we make sure we look at that in the totality of the rest of the research. One of the other data points that went right with it, which I wish more people were quoted, is CEOs who focus on brand have two x the growth. So for me, the important conversation here is, of course everyone is focusing and should be focusing on growth, just like you said, Stephen. But when you say revenue growth, I think there's different ways to interpret it, which makes it seem like there's a bigger divide between cmos or CEOs, and they should be. And this is where mutual understanding and dialogue is just so critically important because cmos understand, for example, that if you are only facing quarter to quarter revenue growth, you might be missing some things that actually will have a negative impact on long term shareholder value. So as a perspective in the C suite, that's valuable. That doesn't mean they're chasing, as you like to say, shiny objects are things that are immaterial. It's just thinking about both immediate returns and long term sustainability, health, saliency, and value of the company. So for me that's very important.
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Speaker 2: Wait, you can actually have two thoughts at the same time.
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Speaker 1: Imagine that, But I hate that were maybe further sensationalizing this idea that there's a divide. I think there is room for cmos and CEOs to better understand each other. But let's do it through a bridge of translation, as opposed to trying to make it seem like cmos don't care about growth. They do deeply compare about growth. I'd argue, just in a aperture that has many different dimensions to it.
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Speaker 2: I agree with that.
00:10:31
Speaker 3: I feel that it's a little bit of clickbait if we're being honest. Yeah, first of a CEO has their CMO on their executive team, and I feel that obviously for you to be in the seatsuite to begin with, you understand about business, you understand about growth. So to have all these things that you know marketers don't care about growth, like it's just a fallacy. I feel like it's the way that kind of all these different functions really interoperate. For me, it's a little bit of a double edged sword. Everyone always loves to talk about insights at these conferences, and I really question is that truly an insight?
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Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I'll give you know, kind of the typical thing around like Latinos right, like oh, Latino's love family, or Latinos love football, right, or we love food. You know, those are not insights. That's like lazy, you know, really stereotypical kind of stuff. I feel like, really going in to understand a consumer insight that really is going to be novel, and that really has to be with doing truly first party custom research, right going into people's homes, following consumer journeys, going with them to the store. You know, how are they actually using things? I mean, design thinking applied to true insights and discovery so that you can actually bring that into your product development. You know a lot of the stuff that happens at places like you know, the Stanford d School, like really embedding yourself in design thinking to kind of discover new insights that is really exciting and those insights really do lead to growth. So everyone kind of spoke about insights, which it's more of a platitude if we're being honest, but real insights, truly innovative insights. I feel like that's exciting and it's a little bit of you know what I really didn't like about the conference, but you know, I think there really is an opportunity to actually see the way to do it properly.
00:12:14
Speaker 1: I love that did you learned this early on? So it feels a little trite, But there's a big difference between data or information and actual insights. And I think it's great that you seized upon this because arguably, in a world in which we're swimming with more information and data than ever before, it doesn't necessarily mean we're equally swimming and more insights. They're more the diamonds and the rough that require a little bit more digging through all of all that stuff.
00:12:41
Speaker 3: It's the classic DKW pyramids. So data is on the bottom, information and then knowledge and then you get up to wisdom or you know, some type of epiphany that that was always the pyramid that I was used in all the companies where I worked, you know, with data, right, because everyone is like, we need more data, No, you actually need more wisdom or knowledge. Try to go up that pyramid.
00:13:01
Speaker 1: Well, as we aspire to get to the top of the pyramid, we'll be right back to talk about things we didn't completely agree with.
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Speaker 3: And we're back, Marissa tell us. Let's continue this dialogue around A and A. But like, what did you not agree with? What did you not like you know from either stuff that you heard or research you saw.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I was a little bit provocative about making sure we reframed a bit of some of the content even on a panel that I was on, but then I sat through a presentation. It was from a speaker who's one of the big executive search firms, talking about another pet peeve topic of mine and fellow cmos, which is the average tenure, another clickbait headline, noting that it's often short.
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Speaker 2: They love to talk about this all the time.
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Speaker 1: Oh, and there has been some real pushback finally, and people saying, yeah, well, sometimes it's short because people go on to better things, or within the company or outside of the company. But anyway, this executive was talking about people who do exceed this average tenure and trumpet in an example of one. And this was what I wasn't so comfortable with, shall we say, The reason cited by apparently the CEO of this company for why this CMO had been so successful was expressed in this one singular sentence, and in fairness, I'm sure it was much much more. But the thing that was mentioned from the stage was well, he had a great bedside manner. And I thought, and my colleague sitting next to me was like, wait, what that's what we're saying, because you know, that's just abatable on a whole bunch of levels in terms of who was being discussed. But also that's the thing you're going to say, define the CMO's success. What have we been talking about so far? The value of growth that cmos understand growth. I mean the fact that nothing was mentioned in heralding a long tenure about how they found interesting ways to unlock a new business category, drive new behavior with consumers.
00:15:10
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, come.
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Speaker 1: On, that's that is that's what you're gonna say from the stage. So I know I wasn't the only one that had that reaction, but I just have to call that out.
00:15:19
Speaker 2: I don't know last time I checked.
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Speaker 3: When you want to see a leader, what are the things that you think about, you know, vision, boldness, taking, calculated risk, nice bedside matter. I don't know if that either makes that list or are those things even congruent. I mean not that you know, you look at Silicon Valley and the idolatry of you know, innovators as the example. But you know, certainly a lot of those folks don't have nice bedside manner, but somehow they're always praising the press, and you know those are you know, kind of the examples that are held up in industry. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to.
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Speaker 1: That, but I believe in the idea of relationships and being kind and respectful.
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Speaker 2: We've talked that. Isn't that just table stakes today?
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Speaker 1: No? No, it's not, and it should be in my humble opinion, But anyway, that kind of got me. How about you anything across the conference that you heard that you just didn't completely agree with or wanted to debate.
00:16:17
Speaker 3: I so appreciate everyone gets on stage and they talk about all their successes, and I get it. You want to look good in front of your peers. You're sharing stuff. It's you know, the press is there, so they're going to write about this stuff. I don't know if that necessarily helps anyone. I think people learn from failure. I think people fail forward and that's where you learn, right. I mean Edison, what failed over five thousand times before we got the light bulb from a tech perspective, from a scientific perspective, those aren't failures. Those are learnings, right, and that's how you advance. And so for everyone to go up and to say, hey, I'm great, look at my pretty ad Hey I grew my category by x percent. Everything is great. But for some reason, either your stock is down, or things aren't that great, or people are just not really you know, thriving in this industry, whatever it is. I just feel like we need to have real talk about what doesn't work. It's so easy to talk about the upside and all the things that are great and rosy. I want to hear, Hey, here are my biggest fuck ups. I want to hear what did I get wrong and what I learned from that right? And wouldn't it be great if you actually have an environment in you know, the c suite, in your company and your department where you could actually fail forward, where hey, I tried something, I took a calculated risk, it did not work, but there is actually safety and trust in my team, in my org, in my company, and I could actually take those risks. I'd love to hear that story, and that never ever gets told.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 1: There was a pop up museum in La so you may have missed it, but I was still in California, I think at the time, called the Museum of Failures, and we went as a family, and I thought it was freaking brilliant. It really was, by the way, geared to people like us because it was about famous flops of products and you go through it and why does this concept work? You're making me think about that because it's funny, it's interesting, it's amusing. But you're right, there's probably just a whole ton of learning. I think that would be a great theme for a whole conference. The only presentations from the stage are things that didn't work, and going back to your insights point, what are the insights and the wise and what did you take forward and how did that actually help you going forward? That would be phenomenal.
00:18:31
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And again I don't want the clickbait examples, you know, I don't want oh, some celebrity and you know they did a bad post, Like those things are just really again, they're sensational and not really the substance I want to have, Like, hey, I really struggle with this. We had all the research, we put it out there, but it didn't work. You know, like when we put out our first app for you know, the kids company, for Encantos, the whole kind of onboarding experience was a mess.
00:18:55
Speaker 2: It was so complicated.
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Speaker 3: We didn't think about all these things, but getting that real time feedback from consumers saying hey, we couldn't register properly or like why is this you know, kind of prompt over here, like that's how you test and learn? And I just feel like that mentality. I don't know if our industry really gives that safe space for you to kind of test and learn. And it's very different.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: We say we do, but most companies don't. Stephen and you know what, I love this conference idea, but I'll tell you something, until there is a safe space or a genuine commitment internally to allow things that didn't go the way one had hoped or planned to be discussed in a constructive way and not a punitive way. I mean, of course, if you're failing all the time, that's not really something any company can tolerate on a business level. But we used to have an expression and one of my past companies fail fast and cheap. I mean, that's a good idea. It doesn't always work that way, but it's the right aspiration to at least be in a place where you can be agile enough so that if something doesn't go as well, you can recover, you can redirect, et cetera.
00:20:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it comes back to the whole Oh, we want change, you want an innovative leader. Do you do you really because you say you do, but your actions really say that you don't.
00:20:13
Speaker 1: All right, we are such positive people, though, that we have to end on a positive takeaway. So let's go to the things or thing or idea that we loved or felt inspired by.
00:20:26
Speaker 2: All right, well, Morrison, what did you love? What was inspiring for you?
00:20:29
Speaker 3: All right?
00:20:29
Speaker 1: All right, I'll go first. You can close on this topic. So we were lucky. Here's real inside scoop. You and I got invited to a nice intimate, little reception one evening hosted by iHeart of course, and they had Jon bon Jovi speak.
00:20:46
Speaker 2: Who's that?
00:20:48
Speaker 3: Well?
00:20:48
Speaker 1: He was then the performer in a much larger dinner reception. But we were lucky. We're in this really intimate room and John Sykes, who was legendary co founder of MTV, invited him. I mean, this is a thirty year friendship, so this was not a traditional moderator fireside chat situation. These were two friends talking and we were right up close, and it allowed for just such a genuine sharing. And I think what was great is, of course we all know someone like this purely on the basis of their celebrity, and what they're famous for, which, of course he's a Hall of Fame musician. But what we didn't perhaps know as well is how much of a businessman he is and also a philanthropist, and well, of course you have to be a marketer. So I'm going to share a couple of things that I just loved from that conversation that I thought you guys would like to. I mean, first of all, he shared the story of how he started this Rose brand with his son, and his son actually came up with a name when they were sort of in jest talking about the abundance of Rose out and the Hamptons and the Sun said it's like Hampton's water, and Bonjovi like, oh my god, that's so brilliant, and there there was born a brand name. Talked a lot about his pilanthropic work, which I just want to really cite and command. He found it many years ago. I think the Joan Bonjovi Soul Foundation for combating homelessness. But the one little nugget that might have been lost is the one I want to pull out because it makes me think about partnership. He was talking about the fact that, unlike most musicians, he wanted to have control, and he was self managed for many years. He managed himself, and what's great about that is he was able to feel like he had control of his own destiny. And then years later he talked to Irving Azof, very famous person in terms of the world of talent and much.
00:22:50
Speaker 2: More music manager, head of record labels like.
00:22:53
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and Azoff apparently said to him, you know you're an island. I'm managed company. And what struck me about that is the mental math we all have to do to say, when does it make sense to go it alone and have that control, and when does it make sense to see it a little of control because other people do have more expertise than you do, and you build community and you build a team around you. But of course what that speaks to is not only someone else's expertise, but your ability to trust them.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: That's huge.
00:23:29
Speaker 1: So I thought that was a really interesting moment of candor and insight that we might never have gotten from him. That really stuck with me. That's us, how about you.
00:23:41
Speaker 2: I was just very structed at how how down to earth he was.
00:23:45
Speaker 3: He was just so accessible, not just in the private gathering with iHeart, but when he was performing you know, he was just like taking questions in the middle of his set from the audience, be like, hey, ask me any questions, and people were asking him about obviously some stuff around writing a song or you know, why did he do this or that, But like it was just very cool to see how just real he was. And here's obviously something that's been very successful in music. But music is a very tough business, and you could tell that he has learned about business through you know, all of his years with great friends and advisors. You know, for me, what I loved was actually the first night. I think you came in the next day, but I went in the night before the A and A Growth Council had a dinner that was sponsored by Meta, and it was kind of all the different you know cmos that are on the board, and it was just for me just being in real life, like I'm at a stage where for me to get on a plane Marsa, I mean, you know, we talked about it all the time, like that means time away from my family. You know, my son's eight, my daughter's five almost six in January. But it's a big lift now, Like I do not have FOMO, like I don't care about missing out on anything. I want to be with my family and for me to be away, it's got to be something that is going to be of substance.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: Where it's going to be worthwhile.
00:24:57
Speaker 3: And just walking into that room and seeing so many folks in real life, that's where for me the insight is. It's about the human connection. It was just so great to see so many people I haven't seen the long time. You know, I haven't been to the ama you know, definitely, you know, kind of pre COVID. But it was just great to see people in real life, catch up with them, hear about what they're up to, their families. But there's a real human connectivity there, and there's an energy. I get an energy when I'm just with folks talking, seeing them excited about whatever they're working on, or just even hearing, hey, I'm really struggling with this job. I'm trying to, you know, switch jobs. Like everyone kind of just starts to share. That is really the key to business, Like I learned very early when it was at Akamai, and it was from the CEO and president George Canratis and this other guy, Paul Sagan, who went on to be CEO, and they both said it, you know, at different times, but they just said, business is about people. Never ever ever forget that. And you know, this was that a tech company, right, and so they were insafe enough to understand that it was about people. And so I just really love the ability to kind of see folks connect with them in an authentic way. And again, you know, all the business stuff, you know, sales opportunities are doing deals like that's all transactional, but you really need to have a truly authentic relationship with people and going to places like this. I know it might be a drag. Trust me, I did not want to go to Orlando at the Rosenshingle, not my place on the top ten list.
00:26:26
Speaker 2: To go to.
00:26:27
Speaker 1: That's the hotel in case you're wondering, right.
00:26:28
Speaker 3: The hotel where the conference was out. But the truth is it was a lot of fun to be there with people.
00:26:33
Speaker 1: Well, I can't think of a better note to end on for our hot topic than the idea of connection, because if we're going to connect with other people on a business level, it really helps to start with connecting on a human level with each other. So love that. And when we are back, we will get to our final What's on your Mind of the season.
00:27:00
Speaker 2: And we're back with What's on your Mind?
00:27:02
Speaker 3: We want to hear from you, So even if we go on hiatus, we still want to hear your questions. Please continue to email us let us know what you're wondering about. Definitely, you know, as we start to go into the holiday season, I'm sure there's going to be a lot to talk about, but please email us your questions at ideas at brand dashneu dot com. And our final episode's question comes from Clara as a longtime listener. I love the pod and similar to you both, I'm considering entering into a new business partnership with a friend. What advice do you have as I consider this new endeavor new business partnerships and doing it with a friend, Marissa' what's that like? Do you have any point of view?
00:27:42
Speaker 1: My gosh, did we make this question up? I mean, it's almost too perfect for what we're talking about. Thank you, Clara, I love it. This is a really good one because we we just started talking about connection and relationships and how business is about relationships. So I don't even think we meant to create such a perfect segue, but sure enough, I think it goes back to what we were even talking about in terms of John bon Jovi's revelation that for me, it just starts with a fundamental sense of affinity, but then also trust and the other piece that really strikes me about partnership, and I think about as you and I were getting this started and finding our way, what was so interesting is seeing how we naturally gravitated to our respective strengths which weren't exactly the same, and that has been incredibly helpful and productive. So I think the difference between being a solo practitioner and going to a place of partnership with someone else is the first question I'd ask yourself. Is the person you're partnering with going to be complementary and additive? And is the sum of your parts going to be greater than the end parts. That's a simple math question to ask yourself. Talked about mental math before even earlier today, and for me, that's where it starts. If you know that the strength and power in the partnership is greater than you do alone, that is a great basis for moving forward.
00:29:16
Speaker 2: I love that.
00:29:16
Speaker 1: How about you, Steven?
00:29:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm always inspired by the African proverb right. You know, if you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: I know that one.
00:29:26
Speaker 3: Certainly there's lots of opportunities to do something by yourself. But I really do think back to your point understanding what is your superpower. I always come back to achy guy and understanding you know what you're good at, what does a world need, what do you love, and what can you get paid for? But really understanding what you're good at and what you're not. And I feel like if you're going to go into business with someone, you really need to realize it's a marriage. If we're just being honest, like, it is a commitment, and you're going to have ups and downs in that relationship. I'm sure I do things that piss off Marissa, and you know, very rarely when she get on my nerves about something, but I have to imagine it'll happen sometime in the future. It hasn't happened yet. But the truth is you really need to just take a leap of faith. You know there's going to be no guarantees, and just understanding kind of the rules of the road, not that you need a prenup per see if you're going to go into partnership with, you know, a friend or a business colleague or whatever it is, but really understanding how do you really deal with disagreement? How do you deal with things that aren't working? And you need to be able to have the candor to just say, hey, that doesn't work for me, you piss me off, and to do it in a way that's not emotional or personalized, but it's about the business because it's almost out of respect. You really need to look at your partner and say, hey, I respect your time. If I mess up on time, I'm going to own it and really try to figure out, like how do we kind of do these things together and lockstep because it is a relationship, no other way about it.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: So really appreciate that question.
00:31:00
Speaker 1: Trust and communication. I think those are the two principles.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: So as always, as always.
00:31:05
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean and lessens right there for what it means to be a brand. So it all connects to brand new and hey, that's it for this time, and that's also a wrap. Wow on season one steven Season one.
00:31:18
Speaker 2: Of Brand New Blu Bye Flu Bye.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: Did if you missed any episodes, you know you can go back and give a listen to all of our preceding ones wherever you like to listen. Don't forget to stay in touch with us by following us at the Brand New Podcast and of course on our social channels.
00:31:34
Speaker 3: And we're getting excited for season two. Send us all of your ideas, topics, questions for whatever it is that you're interested in, send it to ideas at brand ashnew dot com. We'll be back, bigger and better in season two right at the start of twenty twenty four.
00:31:50
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.
00:31:51
Speaker 1: That's a wrap. Thank you so much, everyone,
Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to brand New from the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
00:00:12
Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Wilfeeda.
00:00:13
Speaker 1: And what's new is that this is our final episode of the season, our first season.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Oh no, I cannot believe it. Where did the time go? Marisa?
00:00:23
Speaker 1: I mean, this has been a really great journey and a learning experience for us, and hopefully a learning experience a bit for those of you who have been good enough to listen, and so thought we'd share actually some of what we have learned about doing this first season and the content we've created from you.
00:00:40
Speaker 3: Well, we have lots of different people from all different ages listening.
00:00:44
Speaker 2: Marisa.
00:00:44
Speaker 1: I was so thrilled to hear that we really aspired to have this content speak to people at different stages of their careers.
00:00:53
Speaker 3: And we got all the gens. We got Gen Z, we got millennials, we got Gen.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: X, we got all the gens.
00:00:58
Speaker 2: I love that no Gen Alpha yet, but that's the I think that's great.
00:01:01
Speaker 1: So thank you. Thank you for sharing it with your friends, thank you for encouraging your colleagues. And what's been really gratifying is to hear from some people that aren't even directly in our industry, but just find an interesting to learn about. Because the great thing about as we've talked from the beginning about covering the world of team right, we haven't used that phrase in a bit, but technology, entertainment, advertising, marketing, and media, is that it's part of culture. So everyone understands it on some level, everyone's connected to it, everyone wants to immerse in it to varying degrees, and so I hope we've decoded that a little bit. We also have people from coast to coast listening, so thank you for that. And then the last big thing I guess we learned is what you like to hear about, right, Stephen, definitely.
00:01:46
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, for me, I think when you actually get this kind of green room, you know, kind of insider take, it's always interesting. But now to hear the feedback directly from our listeners that they really enjoy hearing that, and I think it's about the authenticity that we share and you know, kind of like this no bullshit, Hey this works, this doesn't work. This is what happens when you're in the C suite, this is what's happening at these different events. I feel like that is a way that folks can really glean something that is truly kind of real, and I don't know, it's been great to hear that feedback from our listeners.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the inside look because it's easy to read an article, it's easy to even watch a video about our industry on the web. But we wanted to make this about genuine conversations. So it is nice to hear that that's what you're liking. And it works out well to give a little bit of our own personal take because we just got back, both of us from one of, if not potentially the biggest of the industry conferences, which is the Association of National Advertisers Masters of Marketing or the ANA Masters of Marketing another conference. I know it was conference season. I don't usually go to this many in a row, but it worked out well well.
00:02:56
Speaker 3: We were also there because they wanted us to do some panels. Actually we share some of our insights take brand New on the Road, which was a lot of fun.
00:03:03
Speaker 1: What's fun. So let's jump right into this being our hot topic, and the way we've thought about our hot topic is a bunch of questions or prompts that we're going to give ourselves inspired from being at the ANA. So we're going to cover you're ready for this, things we heard and learned, things we shared or talked about, things we didn't completely agree with that should be juicy, and then of course we have to end on a positive things we loved, all right, So I thought i'd kick this one off. Is that okay with you, Let's do it.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: Let's get into it, all right.
00:03:41
Speaker 1: So I'm going to start with our best or favorite things we heard or learned across these few days. And since you prompted this, Stephen, that we got to be on a panel together taking brand New on the road, I have to say that I love what we learned on that panel. It was you and I speaking, of course, together with our friends and Gail Troberman, who's actually the chief marketing officer of iHeartMedia. And what was great is that Gail opened it and we had a very robust discussion that followed, but she opened the panel sharing some research they commissioned that speaks to the disconnect between what sometimes marketers think and prioritize and value and what average American consumers think. And I'm going to give you a couple of cool examples from what she shared. So, for example, what's cool, you'd think it would be somewhat similar or maybe geographic. But what's cool to consumers is traveling in the US and barbecues. Well, it turns out what's cooled to marketers is European travel and going to the gym. I must be more of a consumer than a marketer because I think I prefer barbecue. So here's a couple more NFTs. We haven't even talked about NFTs that much in this season one, which just shows how certain things in market a media become fads, not trends. But who has never heard of an NFT among marketers? Zero percent of marketers, So okay, marketers stayed with it objects we do so zero present, meaning one hundred percent of marketers have heard of NFTs, whereas sixty percent of consumers have only heard of them. That means forty percent have not so huge difference in that regard. And then I'll give you one last one and then turn it over to you. This one made me giggle because my husband and I certainly binge the show succession, And of course you think about the world of media that it depicts, So who's never heard of succession. Only three percent of marketers, a whopping sixty two percent of consumers have never heard of succession. So maybe what we think is happening in culture with certainty has some variability if we don't really plug into people all across the country. So I thought that was fascinating and fun and interesting, and I think it gave us a really nice launching pad to discuss us talking from a place of truth and authenticity and not the fabricated view that sometimes marketers can great. So how about you, what was your best favorite thing that you heard or learned.
00:06:15
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed the theme for this year's A and A conference, Force for Growth and Force for Good. For me, I believe it's an end. While I love hearing about all of the marketing stories and everyone loves to show their ads, and you know, everyone talks about all the great things they're doing in their companies, I really believe the whole idea of focusing on growth the business element of what we do as marketers in this industry is truly redefining the markets that we're in. And whether it was you know, proct Or Coke or Mars or you know, all the different brands that kind of get up there and they're basically telling all these great success stories. At the end of the day, they're talking about, you know, either new categories or really established categories, but there's still ways that you could grow, still ways that you could the pie. And I think there's a mindset approach to that, which is, are you in a limited market where you're just trying to steal share or are you actually growing the pie? Are you actually expanding share? Are you looking at consumers in a wider lens? And I think that is the business conversation that really resonates either with me or certainly with other C suite executives like your CFO, your CEO. You're really going to want to understand how am I growing this business? And I think when we get out of just looking at shiny objects or just talking about our ads or spots and dots, when you're really talking about, Hey, I'm going to expand this category by twenty five percent because I have this kind of insight into an innovation or a product, or or the way that we could actually expand the category by talking to new customers Like that is really exciting, and I feel like that is where cmos need to be driving growth.
00:07:50
Speaker 1: So I love that you just went to talking about growth because it really relates to what I felt was the best thing that I got to talk about while there is on another panel actually, a couple days.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Later, they wanted to hear from there.
00:08:06
Speaker 1: Well, this one felt a little more formal. Lucky enough to do it with my colleague Chris, And then there were some other CMO executives moderated by McKenzie, and they opened up with some research that they did with the ANA and this stat I don't know, this could even skew a little bit into things that I didn't totally agree with. I mean the stats. The stat it was that CEOs overwhelmingly focus on revenue growth while only thirty three percent of cmos have revenue growth as their top KPI. Well, of course you hear that, and I saw a few friends post just that stat to LinkedIn, and then you have people commenting, well, what else are they focused on? But I think it's very important that we make sure we look at that in the totality of the rest of the research. One of the other data points that went right with it, which I wish more people were quoted, is CEOs who focus on brand have two x the growth. So for me, the important conversation here is, of course everyone is focusing and should be focusing on growth, just like you said, Stephen. But when you say revenue growth, I think there's different ways to interpret it, which makes it seem like there's a bigger divide between cmos or CEOs, and they should be. And this is where mutual understanding and dialogue is just so critically important because cmos understand, for example, that if you are only facing quarter to quarter revenue growth, you might be missing some things that actually will have a negative impact on long term shareholder value. So as a perspective in the C suite, that's valuable. That doesn't mean they're chasing, as you like to say, shiny objects are things that are immaterial. It's just thinking about both immediate returns and long term sustainability, health, saliency, and value of the company. So for me that's very important.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: Wait, you can actually have two thoughts at the same time.
00:10:02
Speaker 1: Imagine that, But I hate that were maybe further sensationalizing this idea that there's a divide. I think there is room for cmos and CEOs to better understand each other. But let's do it through a bridge of translation, as opposed to trying to make it seem like cmos don't care about growth. They do deeply compare about growth. I'd argue, just in a aperture that has many different dimensions to it.
00:10:30
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
00:10:31
Speaker 3: I feel that it's a little bit of clickbait if we're being honest. Yeah, first of a CEO has their CMO on their executive team, and I feel that obviously for you to be in the seatsuite to begin with, you understand about business, you understand about growth. So to have all these things that you know marketers don't care about growth, like it's just a fallacy. I feel like it's the way that kind of all these different functions really interoperate. For me, it's a little bit of a double edged sword. Everyone always loves to talk about insights at these conferences, and I really question is that truly an insight?
00:11:06
Speaker 2: Right?
00:11:06
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I'll give you know, kind of the typical thing around like Latinos right, like oh, Latino's love family, or Latinos love football, right, or we love food. You know, those are not insights. That's like lazy, you know, really stereotypical kind of stuff. I feel like, really going in to understand a consumer insight that really is going to be novel, and that really has to be with doing truly first party custom research, right going into people's homes, following consumer journeys, going with them to the store. You know, how are they actually using things? I mean, design thinking applied to true insights and discovery so that you can actually bring that into your product development. You know a lot of the stuff that happens at places like you know, the Stanford d School, like really embedding yourself in design thinking to kind of discover new insights that is really exciting and those insights really do lead to growth. So everyone kind of spoke about insights, which it's more of a platitude if we're being honest, but real insights, truly innovative insights. I feel like that's exciting and it's a little bit of you know what I really didn't like about the conference, but you know, I think there really is an opportunity to actually see the way to do it properly.
00:12:14
Speaker 1: I love that did you learned this early on? So it feels a little trite, But there's a big difference between data or information and actual insights. And I think it's great that you seized upon this because arguably, in a world in which we're swimming with more information and data than ever before, it doesn't necessarily mean we're equally swimming and more insights. They're more the diamonds and the rough that require a little bit more digging through all of all that stuff.
00:12:41
Speaker 3: It's the classic DKW pyramids. So data is on the bottom, information and then knowledge and then you get up to wisdom or you know, some type of epiphany that that was always the pyramid that I was used in all the companies where I worked, you know, with data, right, because everyone is like, we need more data, No, you actually need more wisdom or knowledge. Try to go up that pyramid.
00:13:01
Speaker 1: Well, as we aspire to get to the top of the pyramid, we'll be right back to talk about things we didn't completely agree with.
00:13:11
Speaker 3: And we're back, Marissa tell us. Let's continue this dialogue around A and A. But like, what did you not agree with? What did you not like you know from either stuff that you heard or research you saw.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I was a little bit provocative about making sure we reframed a bit of some of the content even on a panel that I was on, but then I sat through a presentation. It was from a speaker who's one of the big executive search firms, talking about another pet peeve topic of mine and fellow cmos, which is the average tenure, another clickbait headline, noting that it's often short.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: They love to talk about this all the time.
00:13:51
Speaker 1: Oh, and there has been some real pushback finally, and people saying, yeah, well, sometimes it's short because people go on to better things, or within the company or outside of the company. But anyway, this executive was talking about people who do exceed this average tenure and trumpet in an example of one. And this was what I wasn't so comfortable with, shall we say, The reason cited by apparently the CEO of this company for why this CMO had been so successful was expressed in this one singular sentence, and in fairness, I'm sure it was much much more. But the thing that was mentioned from the stage was well, he had a great bedside manner. And I thought, and my colleague sitting next to me was like, wait, what that's what we're saying, because you know, that's just abatable on a whole bunch of levels in terms of who was being discussed. But also that's the thing you're going to say, define the CMO's success. What have we been talking about so far? The value of growth that cmos understand growth. I mean the fact that nothing was mentioned in heralding a long tenure about how they found interesting ways to unlock a new business category, drive new behavior with consumers.
00:15:10
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, come.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: On, that's that is that's what you're gonna say from the stage. So I know I wasn't the only one that had that reaction, but I just have to call that out.
00:15:19
Speaker 2: I don't know last time I checked.
00:15:20
Speaker 3: When you want to see a leader, what are the things that you think about, you know, vision, boldness, taking, calculated risk, nice bedside matter. I don't know if that either makes that list or are those things even congruent. I mean not that you know, you look at Silicon Valley and the idolatry of you know, innovators as the example. But you know, certainly a lot of those folks don't have nice bedside manner, but somehow they're always praising the press, and you know those are you know, kind of the examples that are held up in industry. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: That, but I believe in the idea of relationships and being kind and respectful.
00:15:59
Speaker 2: We've talked that. Isn't that just table stakes today?
00:16:02
Speaker 1: No? No, it's not, and it should be in my humble opinion, But anyway, that kind of got me. How about you anything across the conference that you heard that you just didn't completely agree with or wanted to debate.
00:16:17
Speaker 3: I so appreciate everyone gets on stage and they talk about all their successes, and I get it. You want to look good in front of your peers. You're sharing stuff. It's you know, the press is there, so they're going to write about this stuff. I don't know if that necessarily helps anyone. I think people learn from failure. I think people fail forward and that's where you learn, right. I mean Edison, what failed over five thousand times before we got the light bulb from a tech perspective, from a scientific perspective, those aren't failures. Those are learnings, right, and that's how you advance. And so for everyone to go up and to say, hey, I'm great, look at my pretty ad Hey I grew my category by x percent. Everything is great. But for some reason, either your stock is down, or things aren't that great, or people are just not really you know, thriving in this industry, whatever it is. I just feel like we need to have real talk about what doesn't work. It's so easy to talk about the upside and all the things that are great and rosy. I want to hear, Hey, here are my biggest fuck ups. I want to hear what did I get wrong and what I learned from that right? And wouldn't it be great if you actually have an environment in you know, the c suite, in your company and your department where you could actually fail forward, where hey, I tried something, I took a calculated risk, it did not work, but there is actually safety and trust in my team, in my org, in my company, and I could actually take those risks. I'd love to hear that story, and that never ever gets told.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: You know.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: There was a pop up museum in La so you may have missed it, but I was still in California, I think at the time, called the Museum of Failures, and we went as a family, and I thought it was freaking brilliant. It really was, by the way, geared to people like us because it was about famous flops of products and you go through it and why does this concept work? You're making me think about that because it's funny, it's interesting, it's amusing. But you're right, there's probably just a whole ton of learning. I think that would be a great theme for a whole conference. The only presentations from the stage are things that didn't work, and going back to your insights point, what are the insights and the wise and what did you take forward and how did that actually help you going forward? That would be phenomenal.
00:18:31
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And again I don't want the clickbait examples, you know, I don't want oh, some celebrity and you know they did a bad post, Like those things are just really again, they're sensational and not really the substance I want to have, Like, hey, I really struggle with this. We had all the research, we put it out there, but it didn't work. You know, like when we put out our first app for you know, the kids company, for Encantos, the whole kind of onboarding experience was a mess.
00:18:55
Speaker 2: It was so complicated.
00:18:56
Speaker 3: We didn't think about all these things, but getting that real time feedback from consumers saying hey, we couldn't register properly or like why is this you know, kind of prompt over here, like that's how you test and learn? And I just feel like that mentality. I don't know if our industry really gives that safe space for you to kind of test and learn. And it's very different.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: We say we do, but most companies don't. Stephen and you know what, I love this conference idea, but I'll tell you something, until there is a safe space or a genuine commitment internally to allow things that didn't go the way one had hoped or planned to be discussed in a constructive way and not a punitive way. I mean, of course, if you're failing all the time, that's not really something any company can tolerate on a business level. But we used to have an expression and one of my past companies fail fast and cheap. I mean, that's a good idea. It doesn't always work that way, but it's the right aspiration to at least be in a place where you can be agile enough so that if something doesn't go as well, you can recover, you can redirect, et cetera.
00:20:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it comes back to the whole Oh, we want change, you want an innovative leader. Do you do you really because you say you do, but your actions really say that you don't.
00:20:13
Speaker 1: All right, we are such positive people, though, that we have to end on a positive takeaway. So let's go to the things or thing or idea that we loved or felt inspired by.
00:20:26
Speaker 2: All right, well, Morrison, what did you love? What was inspiring for you?
00:20:29
Speaker 3: All right?
00:20:29
Speaker 1: All right, I'll go first. You can close on this topic. So we were lucky. Here's real inside scoop. You and I got invited to a nice intimate, little reception one evening hosted by iHeart of course, and they had Jon bon Jovi speak.
00:20:46
Speaker 2: Who's that?
00:20:48
Speaker 3: Well?
00:20:48
Speaker 1: He was then the performer in a much larger dinner reception. But we were lucky. We're in this really intimate room and John Sykes, who was legendary co founder of MTV, invited him. I mean, this is a thirty year friendship, so this was not a traditional moderator fireside chat situation. These were two friends talking and we were right up close, and it allowed for just such a genuine sharing. And I think what was great is, of course we all know someone like this purely on the basis of their celebrity, and what they're famous for, which, of course he's a Hall of Fame musician. But what we didn't perhaps know as well is how much of a businessman he is and also a philanthropist, and well, of course you have to be a marketer. So I'm going to share a couple of things that I just loved from that conversation that I thought you guys would like to. I mean, first of all, he shared the story of how he started this Rose brand with his son, and his son actually came up with a name when they were sort of in jest talking about the abundance of Rose out and the Hamptons and the Sun said it's like Hampton's water, and Bonjovi like, oh my god, that's so brilliant, and there there was born a brand name. Talked a lot about his pilanthropic work, which I just want to really cite and command. He found it many years ago. I think the Joan Bonjovi Soul Foundation for combating homelessness. But the one little nugget that might have been lost is the one I want to pull out because it makes me think about partnership. He was talking about the fact that, unlike most musicians, he wanted to have control, and he was self managed for many years. He managed himself, and what's great about that is he was able to feel like he had control of his own destiny. And then years later he talked to Irving Azof, very famous person in terms of the world of talent and much.
00:22:50
Speaker 2: More music manager, head of record labels like.
00:22:53
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and Azoff apparently said to him, you know you're an island. I'm managed company. And what struck me about that is the mental math we all have to do to say, when does it make sense to go it alone and have that control, and when does it make sense to see it a little of control because other people do have more expertise than you do, and you build community and you build a team around you. But of course what that speaks to is not only someone else's expertise, but your ability to trust them.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: That's huge.
00:23:29
Speaker 1: So I thought that was a really interesting moment of candor and insight that we might never have gotten from him. That really stuck with me. That's us, how about you.
00:23:41
Speaker 2: I was just very structed at how how down to earth he was.
00:23:45
Speaker 3: He was just so accessible, not just in the private gathering with iHeart, but when he was performing you know, he was just like taking questions in the middle of his set from the audience, be like, hey, ask me any questions, and people were asking him about obviously some stuff around writing a song or you know, why did he do this or that, But like it was just very cool to see how just real he was. And here's obviously something that's been very successful in music. But music is a very tough business, and you could tell that he has learned about business through you know, all of his years with great friends and advisors. You know, for me, what I loved was actually the first night. I think you came in the next day, but I went in the night before the A and A Growth Council had a dinner that was sponsored by Meta, and it was kind of all the different you know cmos that are on the board, and it was just for me just being in real life, like I'm at a stage where for me to get on a plane Marsa, I mean, you know, we talked about it all the time, like that means time away from my family. You know, my son's eight, my daughter's five almost six in January. But it's a big lift now, Like I do not have FOMO, like I don't care about missing out on anything. I want to be with my family and for me to be away, it's got to be something that is going to be of substance.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: Where it's going to be worthwhile.
00:24:57
Speaker 3: And just walking into that room and seeing so many folks in real life, that's where for me the insight is. It's about the human connection. It was just so great to see so many people I haven't seen the long time. You know, I haven't been to the ama you know, definitely, you know, kind of pre COVID. But it was just great to see people in real life, catch up with them, hear about what they're up to, their families. But there's a real human connectivity there, and there's an energy. I get an energy when I'm just with folks talking, seeing them excited about whatever they're working on, or just even hearing, hey, I'm really struggling with this job. I'm trying to, you know, switch jobs. Like everyone kind of just starts to share. That is really the key to business, Like I learned very early when it was at Akamai, and it was from the CEO and president George Canratis and this other guy, Paul Sagan, who went on to be CEO, and they both said it, you know, at different times, but they just said, business is about people. Never ever ever forget that. And you know, this was that a tech company, right, and so they were insafe enough to understand that it was about people. And so I just really love the ability to kind of see folks connect with them in an authentic way. And again, you know, all the business stuff, you know, sales opportunities are doing deals like that's all transactional, but you really need to have a truly authentic relationship with people and going to places like this. I know it might be a drag. Trust me, I did not want to go to Orlando at the Rosenshingle, not my place on the top ten list.
00:26:26
Speaker 2: To go to.
00:26:27
Speaker 1: That's the hotel in case you're wondering, right.
00:26:28
Speaker 3: The hotel where the conference was out. But the truth is it was a lot of fun to be there with people.
00:26:33
Speaker 1: Well, I can't think of a better note to end on for our hot topic than the idea of connection, because if we're going to connect with other people on a business level, it really helps to start with connecting on a human level with each other. So love that. And when we are back, we will get to our final What's on your Mind of the season.
00:27:00
Speaker 2: And we're back with What's on your Mind?
00:27:02
Speaker 3: We want to hear from you, So even if we go on hiatus, we still want to hear your questions. Please continue to email us let us know what you're wondering about. Definitely, you know, as we start to go into the holiday season, I'm sure there's going to be a lot to talk about, but please email us your questions at ideas at brand dashneu dot com. And our final episode's question comes from Clara as a longtime listener. I love the pod and similar to you both, I'm considering entering into a new business partnership with a friend. What advice do you have as I consider this new endeavor new business partnerships and doing it with a friend, Marissa' what's that like? Do you have any point of view?
00:27:42
Speaker 1: My gosh, did we make this question up? I mean, it's almost too perfect for what we're talking about. Thank you, Clara, I love it. This is a really good one because we we just started talking about connection and relationships and how business is about relationships. So I don't even think we meant to create such a perfect segue, but sure enough, I think it goes back to what we were even talking about in terms of John bon Jovi's revelation that for me, it just starts with a fundamental sense of affinity, but then also trust and the other piece that really strikes me about partnership, and I think about as you and I were getting this started and finding our way, what was so interesting is seeing how we naturally gravitated to our respective strengths which weren't exactly the same, and that has been incredibly helpful and productive. So I think the difference between being a solo practitioner and going to a place of partnership with someone else is the first question I'd ask yourself. Is the person you're partnering with going to be complementary and additive? And is the sum of your parts going to be greater than the end parts. That's a simple math question to ask yourself. Talked about mental math before even earlier today, and for me, that's where it starts. If you know that the strength and power in the partnership is greater than you do alone, that is a great basis for moving forward.
00:29:16
Speaker 2: I love that.
00:29:16
Speaker 1: How about you, Steven?
00:29:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm always inspired by the African proverb right. You know, if you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: I know that one.
00:29:26
Speaker 3: Certainly there's lots of opportunities to do something by yourself. But I really do think back to your point understanding what is your superpower. I always come back to achy guy and understanding you know what you're good at, what does a world need, what do you love, and what can you get paid for? But really understanding what you're good at and what you're not. And I feel like if you're going to go into business with someone, you really need to realize it's a marriage. If we're just being honest, like, it is a commitment, and you're going to have ups and downs in that relationship. I'm sure I do things that piss off Marissa, and you know, very rarely when she get on my nerves about something, but I have to imagine it'll happen sometime in the future. It hasn't happened yet. But the truth is you really need to just take a leap of faith. You know there's going to be no guarantees, and just understanding kind of the rules of the road, not that you need a prenup per see if you're going to go into partnership with, you know, a friend or a business colleague or whatever it is, but really understanding how do you really deal with disagreement? How do you deal with things that aren't working? And you need to be able to have the candor to just say, hey, that doesn't work for me, you piss me off, and to do it in a way that's not emotional or personalized, but it's about the business because it's almost out of respect. You really need to look at your partner and say, hey, I respect your time. If I mess up on time, I'm going to own it and really try to figure out, like how do we kind of do these things together and lockstep because it is a relationship, no other way about it.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: So really appreciate that question.
00:31:00
Speaker 1: Trust and communication. I think those are the two principles.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: So as always, as always.
00:31:05
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean and lessens right there for what it means to be a brand. So it all connects to brand new and hey, that's it for this time, and that's also a wrap. Wow on season one steven Season one.
00:31:18
Speaker 2: Of Brand New Blu Bye Flu Bye.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: Did if you missed any episodes, you know you can go back and give a listen to all of our preceding ones wherever you like to listen. Don't forget to stay in touch with us by following us at the Brand New Podcast and of course on our social channels.
00:31:34
Speaker 3: And we're getting excited for season two. Send us all of your ideas, topics, questions for whatever it is that you're interested in, send it to ideas at brand ashnew dot com. We'll be back, bigger and better in season two right at the start of twenty twenty four.
00:31:50
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.
00:31:51
Speaker 1: That's a wrap. Thank you so much, everyone,
