Owner Dependency: The Exit Killer with Renee Russo

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And as they brought him back to life, they set him up against a concrete wall.
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And on the front of his shirt was a Vince Lombardi quote.
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It said, It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get back up.
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That was my wake-up call to go on my own personal transformation journey.
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And what I realized is that I didn't suck.
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I was just stuck in the gap, and I didn't know how to get out.
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Hey everybody, we are back today with another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
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And I have Renee Russo, not the actress Renee Russo, but the Renee Russo, who is a business coach and expert in preparing firms for sale, among other things.
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So how's it going, Renee?
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Really good.
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I'm excited to be here.
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Thanks for having me.
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I'm excited to have you here.
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So tell us, Ready, a little bit about yourself.
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I'm a former business owner of a small business in the business technology space.
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My husband and I ran that business, and we experienced all of the gifts of the entrepreneurial journey.
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We had some uh business conflict issues we navigated.
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My husband uh had a cancer journey, we raised a young family, all these things while trying to keep the business alive.
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And at some point, I reached a breaking point and said, we have to figure out a better way.
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Uh so fortunately, I had an accounting degree and I had a fascination with how business worked.
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And I learned about operating systems methodologies, turned our business around, and launched my coaching practice.
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And then some of my clients started to sell their company.
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And actually, many of them started to sell.
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And those that did close successfully thanked me for all of my hard work to help make that happen.
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And I wasn't connecting the dots between my work in the business optimization space and the uh exit journey until I had my own exit.
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And so I went through a double exit of marriage and business, learned a lot, uh, and then became an exit planner so that I could help other business owners exit their business successfully and move into the next chapter with confidence.
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That's what I do now.
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Wow.
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Yeah, I've been through a double exit on marriages and businesses.
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So I can I've got, I guess I've got a multiplier.
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A double double exit.
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Well my goodness, teaches you a lot.
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It is a learning experience, no question about it.
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So now, how long have you been doing your thing here with the helping these other business owners?
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Well, when I say to the world that, you know, I've been in the business advisory space for 20 plus years, people look at me and they're like, What?
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I started my career.
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Yeah, I started my career at KPMG as a junior accountant.
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And I worked there for a couple of years, then worked in uh talent solutions before I launched into my own business journey.
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So 20 years ago, I came to Canada and started this entrepreneurial journey with my husband.
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And I launched my practice, my coaching practice as it is now, or an early version of it, uh, just over 10 years ago.
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So there've been a few iterations.
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It's been a while, but every day I feel like I'm still learning.
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That's awesome.
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So tell us about some of the cases that you've been involved with and good and bad.
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Tell us a few stories and give our listeners some lessons to learn from all this.
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You know, there is a case study that I talk about a lot.
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And interestingly, I'm still working with the client for uh almost 10 years.
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So this business owner, uh, when I came into the organization as the business coach, I implement operating systems frameworks like EOS and business best practices.
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We realized that we had an owner um dependency problem.
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He was in all of the key seats that held the business up.
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And so we systematically worked towards building a team, building a vision, and that allowed the business to unlock growth from 13 million to 30 million.
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Then the business started to hit a little bit of a ceiling.
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So we upgraded the leadership team again, continuing to decentralize the business owner.
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And then he turned to me and said, Renee, I want to sell my company.
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And that was when I first realized that I didn't have a game plan for that.
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So that's when I got certified and became a certified exit planning advisor with the Exit Planning Institute.
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Uh, and we built a strategy, and I introduced him to MA.
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And at that point, everyone thought that my work was over.
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So I was kind of pushed to the sides and they went through the due diligence process, and unfortunately, the business did not close.
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Okay.
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The reality is, and what a lot of people in MA space don't say is that only 30% of companies that go to market truly close.
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Yep.
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70% don't.
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And it's actually fairly normal.
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Sure.
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And most businesses fail because of two things.
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The business is not ready to be transferred to new ownership, it's not portable.
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Yep.
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Andor the business owner is not ready to transition to what's next.
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Yep.
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And that was what happened with this business owner.
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He was too uh tied to the day-to-day.
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He wasn't ready for what was next.
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And the business was not able to be transferred successfully because of that dependency, particularly in the sales function.
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After that failure, a client came back and said, Look, I think we have more work to do.
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And I was, I confirmed we did.
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So we reset the leadership team and reinforce the sales function.
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And now we're on the path to 50 million with a part plan to go back to the market in three years, being able to confidently demonstrate the business is both attractive and transferable, and the business owner is ready for what's next.
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So it's hard to have to learn the hard way.
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Yeah, that's a good story.
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And it's not unusual.
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I mean, as you said, so many businesses suffer from single person management.
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That's always the the start of the problem where the owner's involved in every single thing.
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And so certainly that is a that's a common problem.
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And then and then you mentioned sales.
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I mean, that's that's yet another one.
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I mean, personally, I always try to create businesses that don't depend on salespeople.
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I'm all about marketing and the phone ringing and having people who write orders versus sales and trying to do it all through relationships with high-powered salespeople.
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The problem I've found there is that really good salespeople make a whole lot of money.
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A, they're very difficult to find, and and B, you're dependent on them then.
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When they leave, too much of the business is portable.
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Yeah.
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And what we notice is that a lot of business owners, that is the function that they let go of last.
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Yep.
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Because that's really like the keys to the bank.
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And so they tend to let go of it last.
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And a lot of the relationships in the market are reliant on them.
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You know, depending on what industry we're in, my work spans everything from architecture to manufacturing to plumbing and HVAC, like mental clinics, like anything, really.
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The wiring of a well-run business is the same, irrespective of the industry.
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The nuance is very much born out of two things: industry segment and the exit strategy.
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So when we're combining where we're actually taking this business with what the owner's plan is alongside the market that they're in, uh, we can be a lot more strategic.
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What I've noticed is a lot of my clients that have a technical specialty are moving towards the doer-seller method, which is born out of the Architecture, Engineering and Construction Association.
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There's a book about it, even.
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I would say actually, I'll flip that around, seller-doer method.
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And so the doers?
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Not to interrupt you there, Renee, but you know, that's the industry I spent my entire career in.
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So I'm very familiar with exactly what you're talking about.
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Yeah.
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And recognize your PMs are the people who are going to sell your project managers and technical elevated leaders are the ones who are going to sell the work because they know the work.
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Right.
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I mean, clients don't want to deal with people who don't know anything.
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That's, you know, you're right.
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We have AI now, those frontline salespeople who are just all talk and selling the pitch.
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Owners and consumers can get this information themselves now.
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We need the goods, you know, the value creators, uh, those are the people who are going to be able to close the work.
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I thought it was interesting too.
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You were talking about how this guy, back on your case, wasn't ready to sell the firm psychologically, maybe.
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I think, you know, don't you find often that many of these business owners, their whole identity is wrapped up in that business?
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And to separate from that is extremely difficult for them.
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And they think they want to do it, but then as they get closer to actually doing it, creates a lot of anxiety, don't you think?
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Totally.
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You know, a lot of business owners come to me and say, I'm ready to sell my business.
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Can you help me?
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Yeah.
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And I'm like, oh, interesting.
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It sounds like you're ready to start this conversation to ensure that you and your business are ready.
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And that readiness illusion is something that I come across all the time.
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And it is important that business owners first prioritize their personal goals and take the time to re-identify with who they are, what they want in life, what's next, for them to also identify their personal objectives around financials.
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What are their financial needs when they're no longer trading time for money?
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How do they want to live their life?
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What are their financial goals around wealth transfer to their children?
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So when we understand the personal and financial objectives of the owner, we can then start to identify their wealth gap and their needs and opportunity cost of staying in the business because they have a clear line of sight of what they're pulling towards.
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A lot of business owners that say I'm ready are feeling the push because they're under pressure or they've had enough.
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But it's really not that they are ready, it's they're ready to start this conversation about what's next and what they need.
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I believe you.
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I think that's um it sounds sounds again very familiar.
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I can't say that's a surprise to hear you say that.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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And energy starts moving towards that.
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Once the owner is clear around above and beyond, they pull themselves up out of their business and they create a clear path.
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Energy starts moving in that direction because we have a alignment around where they're going.
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Otherwise, they'll stay stuck.
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How do you help them figure out what that next thing is?
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Mm-hmm.
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At the beginning of the journey, I keep it light.
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You know, I just do a little bit of a discovery around who they are, their stakeholders' family, their bucket list, if they did sell, what would turn be terms that they'd want, uh, what are some big goals they have in their life.
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But uh inside of the engagement, I get very detailed with them.
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And so that looks like literally understanding their wealth gap, establishing a financial plan, de-risking themselves and getting clear on what they need.
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And then a detailed two-page personal plan.
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I call it my life design, where I'm re-identifying my core values, my purpose, my legacy, my 10-year legacy that I want to have created, also coined as my significant life.
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I get them to design literally what their life looks like three years from now, holistically across uh what they're doing with the in terms of spending time with people, their purpose, their wealth, how they want to grow, and the value they want to create in the world and their health is really, really important.
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So I get a clear picture three years out.
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We set goals for the coming year and identify all the questions they're not yet asking themselves, but they should.
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And then we work that plan every 90 days to systematically move towards what I call freedom.
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And it's the freedom to choose themselves and live their life by design.
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Very interesting.
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What about this uh post-exit identity crisis?
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Mm-hmm.
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So you could have all the planning in the world, and maybe things still don't work out like they wanted, or maybe they work out like they wanted, but it's not what they ultimately want.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know, depending on the type of exit that a business owner has, whether it's a voluntary or involuntary, can really determine what that crisis, the magnitude of that crisis looks like.
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If it's involuntary due to a, you know, a death of a shareholder, a disability, a disagreement, distress or divorce, um, you know, these involuntary triggers of an exit can cause catastrophic impact on the person, the business owner, because they didn't see it coming.
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If it's a voluntary exit, even still, if there's a voluntary exit where a lot of the people in the deal team and that workflow are focusing on the money and the mechanics of the business.
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They're not focusing on the human being.
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Are they going to be okay?
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What are they going to do next?
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In both of those scenarios, business owners 75% of the time move into a crisis, a regretful state after their exit.
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And most of that is born out of a lack of preparedness and planning early enough to help them figure out who they are, how they want to live their life, and how to make that happen.
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And they get stuck in this transition gap.
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So after they sell, voluntarily or involuntarily, the space between that exit and them living their life by design whole and intact with themselves is this transition gap.
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And that requires coaching, support, resources.
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I get my business owners, as I said, to not just have a two-page personal plan, but 90-day goals, an energy management practice, a personal board, you know, your key people that you go out for dinner with or willing to set it to you straight.
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Yeah.
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I do all those things with them to make sure that life continues on after the business.
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They're intact, they're whole, and they know where they're going and they're supported.
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I got stuck in that gap myself and I hit rock bottom.
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I became an alcoholic.
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In my double exit, I lost my children, my home, my business, and my identity.
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That realization of suddenly having everything that I built for 15 years vanish because I simply said, I don't want this anymore, was so much to bear.
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I fell really hard.
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Suddenly I had a life and then I had no life.
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In that struggle, I was downtown in Vancouver feeding people on the street on Christmas morning in the homeless district.
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And my friend and I that were there, we were leaving.
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And as we were leaving, we found a dead man on the street.
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I'd seen a dead person in real life.
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We called the paramedics, and it turns out he wasn't fully dead.
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He was deeply unconscious.
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And as they brought him back to life, they sat him up against a concrete wall.
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And on the front of his shirt was a Vince Lombardi quote.
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It said, It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get back up.
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That was my wake-up call to go on my own personal transformation journey.
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And what I realized is that I didn't suck.
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I was just stuck in the gap and I didn't know how to get out.
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I first started changing my mindset, then my behaviors.
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And as my energy increased, I started to create more attraction of resources.
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My kids came back, and the life I wanted was mine for the making.
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And I discovered that freedom that I get to choose how I want to live my life.
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Life is not happening to me, it's happening for me.
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And I can choose to move from living by default to living by design.
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That man gave me a wake-up call.
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And every business owner has that opportunity.
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But it's very hard when you're stuck there.
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And that's why early planning matters most.
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Wow, so that is profound that you went through that.
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And I can see why it's so important to you, the mission that you're on now.
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You f do you find uh, or how often do you find, I should say, uh, that these business owners, after they get out, they've got their plan, they they do everything that you tell them to do to get ready.
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They have a successful exit.
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Uh you know, they're they're trying to be their whole self, doing all the things that you suggest, not just sitting around counting their money, but living life, okay.
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That they decide they want to go back into business.
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How often do you find that?
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And they're jumping.
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Yeah, I don't have the data, but my experience is eight times out of ten.
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Eight times out of ten, there you go.
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That's interesting.
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I'm not surprised.
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Once again, I think entrepreneurs, real entrepreneurs, they can't stop.
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It's it's just it's their nature.
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But Mark, what happens I've noticed, is if we if if if we don't hold that space for them to do that transition work, they end up going back and repeating a lot of patterns from the past.
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Yeah.
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We have to hold the space for the transition and the human transformation work.
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I know somebody who literally is in the MA space.
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I think she's a coach.
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She had a very successful marketing agency in New York and has an epic exit story.
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And she didn't hold that space.
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She went straight into creating something new, where she's a her organization coaches other entrepreneurs and doubled down and moved into the MA space as well.
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Busier than ever, more out of balance than ever, but didn't create the space to learn from her own transition journey, transformation journey, and really come into that wisdom.
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:53.359
But I believe in life we're on this journey to find and become ourselves and come home to ourselves.
00:20:53.759 --> 00:21:03.359
Now, business owners have an addiction to money and success and the vices that often prevent them from doing this work.
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:20.319
And the cycle tends to repeat if we don't have an interrupting moment and the resources or help to help really embody the growth that can come from those transition journeys.
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.920
We all go through transitions.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.319
I have a puppy that I'm letting in and out here.
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.680
Um we all go through transition processes.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:34.640
For example, we raise kids, then we become an empty nester.
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.720
That's a transition process.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:42.559
And a lot of people don't recognize the opportunity to do personal development work there.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:44.960
They just get busy doing other things.
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:51.599
So I think that there's an opportunity there to slow down, to go fast, to hold the space.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:59.759
And that's why having a resource who's guided the exit and who can support and research.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:14.880
Source that space after the celebrations, after the money is in the bank, and hold the line for the business owner to be able to do their own personal regroup and transformation work.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.599
Those are the professionals that I feel like stand out.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.440
Those are the market leaders who are willing to see things beyond just the bank account.
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:27.519
And that's what I do.
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:33.039
Other growth advisors that I work alongside, we do that.
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:50.240
We are there from three to five years before a transaction, through the transaction to the post-transaction era, and we quarterback the resources, the advisors, the support and the process that helps the business owner walk to their destiny.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.279
How do you guys get paid for what you do?
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.519
Is it you charge by the hour?
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.119
Do you charge by the year?
00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:58.079
Well, how do you do it?
00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:59.200
I'm just curious.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:06.480
So I've been studying the business of exit planning while also in the business.
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:10.079
And I've kept my model very nimble so that I can learn.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:16.400
And nothing worse than building out an advisory practice and realize it's not relevant in the market.
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.319
And the business landscape is changing.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.480
So I've stayed nimble by design.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:26.079
What I have discovered is that we need to reduce the barriers to entry.
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:36.160
So some people in my profession charge a lot of money upfront for an in like an investigative report analysis and a strategic plan.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.200
My clients, I noticed that did do that, didn't get a lot of value.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:54.240
What they got the value from was the execution, the month over month, quarter over quarter support, coordinating the meetings, measuring the growth, and managing the deliverables.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:58.799
And so now I just move straight into month over month.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.240
I do not ask for a piece of the pie when they do sell.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.160
I don't ask for phantom shares.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:05.599
I don't take equity.
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:11.119
I stay focused on the value creation, and my clients are in a month-over-month engagement.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.920
No big cost to do business with me up front.
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:25.440
With the age of AI now, it is amazing what a business owner can discover about themselves and their business on Claude or OpenAI or Grok.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.319
So I think we have to get smarter.
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:33.680
And I know what business owners struggle with most is the execution of the plan.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.519
They can have all the plans they want, but it's the execution.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:42.880
And people who are good at that, such as myself, that's where the value is created.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:45.519
How do you grow your own business?
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:53.839
I mean, how do you avoid being a victim of exactly what you're helping your clients with?
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.559
Yeah, but you have to practice what we preach.
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:57.759
You're spot on.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:07.599
So one of the pitfalls of uh the independent practitioner model or the micro firm model is that you are the product.
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:08.559
Yep.
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:09.759
Right.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:19.279
So I was a former EOS implementer, a franchise holder, and all that model would allow me to simply trade my time for money, and that's it.
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:23.759
If I wasn't in the session room with a client, I wasn't earning money.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:31.519
The more I got educated about value creation, the more I realized I needed to go and build a firm of my own.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:46.160
There are five things that every micro firm practitioner needs to be in practicing to ensure that their business is scalable and not dependent exclusively on them.
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:54.559
And this was born out of probably 300 conversations with fellow advisors in the Exit Planning Institute community.
00:25:54.799 --> 00:26:03.920
You need very strong positioning, understanding who your ICP is, who that target market customer is, and how you serve them.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.119
Trying to help everybody will kill your business.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:08.640
Plan.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:14.240
You also need a personal plan, financial plan, and a business plan that is in alignment.
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.720
We have to practice what we preach.
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:18.240
Process.
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:29.359
Simple, repeatable process that anybody who's got business background, a former business owner who's been through an exit can replicate.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.799
So a simple, clean, repeatable process.
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.720
This was the next one, the number four is platforms.
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.559
That's where I got stuck.
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:46.720
I was trying to use all this fancy software to run these engagements and lost a handle on my process.
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:57.279
And so when you get your tech stack right and you've got an engagement platform that I use one called Propel Your Business, it creates a front of house for my firm.
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.079
So clients can come in and interface with it.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.559
Advisors can come in and interface with it.
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.519
And it's not all dependent on me doing the work.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:07.359
And then partners.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:13.759
My work is scaled by the extent of my partnership ecosystem.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:21.599
I bring together advisor teams, legal, accounting, wealth managers, MA practitioners, personal coaches.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:23.599
I bring together the advisor.
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:35.359
So I scale with a tight process on clean tech with the right partners and a repeatable framework that anybody can pick up, almost a franchisable model and replicate.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:44.960
So when I have needs, I just bring on a new advisor onto my platform, train them in my method, and I can see everything that's taking place on my platform.
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:46.240
That's how I scale.
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:54.480
Well, yeah, that's I'd say that's a much more organized than typical sub-practitioner who does what you do.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.200
Somebody asked me recently why I'm so impactful with business owners.
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.559
And I say, Well, I am a former business owner myself.
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:07.039
They're like, Well, how can I become impactful even if I'm not a business owner?
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:08.079
I'm an advisor.
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.559
And I said, Well, you just need to become a business owner.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.440
Treat your business like your practice like a business.
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:14.400
Yeah.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:18.079
That's a problem I have with a lot of coaches, I'll be honest with you.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:24.640
Ones that have just been through coach training, but they never had a business.
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:30.880
I I think it's very difficult for them to truly identify with their clients and what they're going through.
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:31.759
Don't you?
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.200
I think so too.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:45.359
And you know, I learned one, uh I was a former yoga teacher and I had a yoga studio, and I went to prenatal yoga, and you're probably thinking to yourself, where is she going?
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.599
I went to prenatal yoga training.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:56.799
And in that training, there were many people who had never had a baby who were getting trained to deliver prenatal yoga.
00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:05.680
And they actually put their hand up and said, I don't know if I can do this because I've never been pregnant and I've never felt what it is like to be pregnant.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.839
Therefore, I don't know if I can teach it.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.079
And a profound moment happened there.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:22.240
The teacher said, Can you be a compassionate witness to what someone is moving through with empathy, care, attention, and guidership?
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:23.359
Can you do that?
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:25.279
And these people said yes.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:31.839
And she turned to them and she they and she said, then you can be a prenatal yoga teacher, even if you've never been pregnant.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:49.119
I believe advisors can be powerful with business owners if they're willing to step out from behind the desk and sit in the trench with the business owner, sit in the discomfort, not have all the answers, but know how to ask the right questions.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:58.160
Show empathy, care, attention, and good guidership with a proven process, and just be curious every step of the way.
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:07.039
I can say everything that I know now has been bought out or born out of my own experience and working with clients, not from textbooks.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:14.559
So if they're willing to be a human advisor, they can be profoundly impactful, even potentially.
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.599
Mark, like you and I are good, but we got scar tissue.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:23.519
We've got some like bad habits that we've learned from our business ownership journey, things that we've maybe normalized.
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:28.240
The advisor can be objective, but they have to be human first.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:31.440
I probably have a lot more of those bad habits than you.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.680
You seem like you're so disciplined over there.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:34.799
Wow.
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:39.359
I was an athlete growing up.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:51.839
And you know, statistics say that 95% of executives in North America, uh, of a research study was recently done, were former team sport athletes.
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:52.559
Yes.
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:53.039
I believe.
00:30:53.359 --> 00:31:01.359
So I've got a daughter who's in hockey, and I'm like, girl, you stay in hockey and you're gonna make it to the top in the corporate world or in the entrepreneurial world.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.799
So you know, that's interesting though that they say that.
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:10.640
And and that don't take this the wrong way when I say it, because I think the facts would bear it out.
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:18.480
I think a lot of women, unfortunately, did not have those experiences in sports, for example.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:28.160
Many played sort of more individualistic sports if they played sports, rather than on teams like so many male sports are.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.920
Now, obviously, some do.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:39.119
Some play basketball and soccer and hockey and lacrosse and all these other things that are team sports, but it's you know, it's not that often.
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:44.960
More often than not, they're gymnasts and swimmers and if you look in, I mean, I'm in Canada.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:52.160
Uh so I grew up in Australia and uh through team sports are like you're it's part of the DNA.
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:53.920
Yeah, everything is a team sport.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:32:01.039
Uh, even golf is a team sport, swimming is a team sport, like everything they do things in co in collectives down there a lot.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.720
And if you're not doing a sport, you're kind of weird as growing up.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.920
It's like strange that you're not in sports.
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:23.839
Canada, I would say I've noticed over the last 10 to 15 years, there's been an uprising of team sports, particularly a lot of in the last five years, investment in female sport programs.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:25.759
My daughter plays ice hockey.
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.880
So I watch it.
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:30.559
It's a very high and volleyball uh in the offseason.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:45.279
Those two sports are the are getting so much investment because organizations, corporations know that their future leaders are currently on the court or on the field or on the ice, and they're investing there, and I think it's smart.
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:46.720
That's very interesting.
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:47.440
I like that.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:49.599
Yeah, I played ice hockey myself.
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:50.480
So nice.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:51.759
Good for your daughter.
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:52.640
That's awesome.
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.359
Yeah, my boys are going into trades.
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.200
They played hockey previously as well.
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:57.440
Okay.
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:02.240
Um, one's going into electrical, and one's going into plumbing, and they just graduate this week.
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:03.200
Awesome.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:05.519
I mean, we need so many more tradespeople.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.640
And the fact is, you can do unbelievably well.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:11.759
It's such a great basis for being a business owner.
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:24.640
You know, my push there was with the role of AI, the changing landscape of the workforce, so many unknown things, you know, anything mechanical, manual, uh, was a priority.
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:28.480
So what I I actually just wanted to loop that back around.
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:32.960
So I get asked a lot about the role of the AI in my profession.
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:44.960
And a lot of the advisor space, from accountants to lawyers and financial advisors, people are looking to that, those industries and asking, what value do they bring in the new world of AI?
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:51.920
And business owners have so much information now, more than ever, which I think is has its pros and its cons as well.
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:52.400
Yes.
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:53.200
Yes.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:34:01.440
What business owners need now more than ever is in all the noise, all the chaos, and all the information that they have, they need a guide.
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:11.840
They need a human-centered guide who's in their corner, who will call them out if they need to, is in their corner, seeing the big picture and guiding the process.
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:17.599
Because business owners who are going on their succession journey typically have never been there before.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:23.519
And if I ask a business owner, would you go and climb Mount Everest alone?
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:25.440
And they're like, No.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.599
Would you just decide to go and just go and do it?
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.639
They're like, no.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:32.320
I'd I asked them what they do.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:33.920
They say they would prepare.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:37.039
I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:42.880
And they'd go with a group with support of others, and they'd have a guide.
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:48.239
And I'm like, so you do that if you were climbing Mount Everest.
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:50.719
Let's now talk about your business.
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:55.039
Let's talk about your succession journey, preparation.
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.320
Go together and go with a guide.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.000
That's what's going to get you to your destiny.
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:08.559
You know, how I'm just curious, how do your clients find you?
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:09.360
I should say.
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:18.480
Because my guess is if they get if you get in front of them and you get a chance to have a real conversation with them, they're probably going to want to hire you.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.599
I say your I my guess is your close rate is super high.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.039
But how do you get your clients for your business?
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:28.239
Mm-hmm.
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:39.760
The best source is from an existing client who's looking at their friend, fellow business owner, and says, I don't want them to suffer in the dark anymore.
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:40.639
Enough is enough.
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:41.519
They need help.
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:42.239
Right.
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:43.920
That is the best source.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:48.159
The trust transfer on a scale of one to 10 is like a nine out of 10.
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:49.039
Sure.
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:54.079
The next best category is the MA advisor.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:36:04.880
MA advisors who have been around 10 plus years have typically 10 years worth of business owners they've talked to, and maybe 1% of them they've actually transacted.
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:22.559
So they have a very deep database of business owners who at one point have put up their hand and said, I want to sell, and the MA advisor has said, you're not ready, or the business is not ready, or go away and come back, but they don't have anywhere to send them.
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:36.239
And so MA is a if if I get the right MA relationship, they look at their portfolio of their pipeline and they're like, I don't want that person to sit in the dark anymore.
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.320
I want them to be able to move forward.
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:43.199
So MA uh advisors are another really good source.
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:49.920
I do a lot of talks, I do a lot of podcasts, a lot of talks, and people that think, oh, you must like close a lot of business.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.639
And I'm like, no, it's just simply education.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.920
Because I'm talking about problems business owners don't know that they have.
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:01.440
A future that is not real to them.
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:09.519
And two very sensitive topics, even more sensitive than politics and religion, it's money and mortality.
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:20.480
And so I'm doing tur talks to just turn the lights on and start them asking deeper questions.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:24.159
My close rate from talks is zero.
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:38.639
I actually implore them to not seek to work to meet with me until they take some time to think about these questions, talk to their existing advisors, and start to ask themselves, what do I want?
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:40.000
And that takes time.
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:42.800
Business owners, people think they're selfish.
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:56.559
People think owners like you, Mark, we make sales and that all goes straight into your personal bank account, and they have no idea of the struggle and the self-sacrifice that business owners go through on a daily basis.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.920
Everybody else gets to go home and you don't.
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:05.920
Their ability to put themselves first, actually, in my experience, is very low.
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:12.079
And it takes time to get them to the table where they're ready to really start this work.
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:20.239
So I have a fairly high success rate, but I have a very focused niche ICP.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.880
My ideal client profile is clear.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:27.199
And when I'm not the person to work with them, I refer them to my peers.
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:37.440
I actually turned my business into an academy to train other advisors to do this work better because they've got the theory and they've got the experience.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:39.679
They just struggle with the execution.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:49.280
And so I have advisors in my reach and I feed them work because I believe together collectively we can have a lot more impact than I can have alone.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:50.239
Yeah.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:51.920
Wow, that's great.
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:58.639
So um do you find uh back on the sellers for a minute?
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:09.119
You you talk about uh you know the the two um sacred subjects um money and what was the other one?
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:10.320
Mortality.
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:12.239
Mortality, yeah.
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:20.880
I I find that a lot of entrepreneurs, as odd as it is, the money's really not the most important thing to them at all.
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:29.360
It's it it is a byproduct, but then at the same time when they want to go sell their business, they think it's worth three times what it really is.
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:30.880
Do you do you find that?
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:44.960
They typically entrepreneurs have uh most of the entrepreneurs that I meet have a complex relationship with money born out of their formative years of childhood.
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.119
Boy, right on with that.
00:39:47.679 --> 00:40:02.480
So when I start talking with a business owner, sometimes it takes me 10 years to get a business owner to a point where I'm like, they're like, one of my former clients from seven years ago, no, eight years ago, reached out and said, I'm ready to have this conversation, Renee.
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:16.079
So um I got I get every business owner to tell me in the first conversation who they are, where they grew up, what it was like, what they learned, what hardship they had, like all these things.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.199
And people say, Well, this is the most weird sales call I've ever had.
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:20.719
I'm like, it's not a sales call.
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:41.039
It's an invitation to get to know yourself because the more you get to know yourself, your needs, your motivations, like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I can I can assess where the gaps are, where the needs are, and psychologically understand the level of readiness, willingness, and ableness to do this work.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:47.519
Uh but the the complexity there is like we don't care about the money, it's about the meaning.
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:51.840
But when it comes to the crunch, we do care about the money, and then some days we do, and then some days we don't.
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:53.039
And where is it all coming from?
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:55.039
Because we have a complex relationship.
00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:05.599
And that's why MA people like or people like me in the process, because I'm managing the number one risk, the business owner.
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:06.480
Yeah.
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.960
And that is unique to every business owner.
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:15.119
But most of them got kicked out of the home at like 17 years old.
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:31.280
Parents said you're on your own now, or their dad went bankrupt, uh, you know, was their primary income bearer went bankrupt, or they came from poverty, um, or had it all, lost it all.
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.239
Like they've got some kind of thing there.
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:35.920
And I go looking for that.
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:37.440
I need to understand that.
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.440
Boy, you're right on with that.
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:54.559
When we're at we're backed up against the wall and we're moving into the unknown, all that stuff shows up, all that trauma, unaddressed stuff shows up, and I need to be ready for it.
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:56.880
I'm not a therapist.
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:58.159
You're not?
00:41:58.400 --> 00:41:59.840
I mean, you seem like one.
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.519
You get into the weeds with these people.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.360
I mean, yeah, yeah.
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:09.519
People ask me, am I concerned about you know, client churn?
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:13.679
I would say my clients never really leave.
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:18.800
They just sometimes go on long trips and then they come back.
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:20.719
And this is a lifelong journey.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:24.079
So I think what is also important you asked earlier about scale.
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:28.480
It's not about volume of clients that you work with in my type of work.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:28.960
Uh-huh.
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.679
It's about the depth of those relationships.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.960
And it is important that there be a value exchange.
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:44.559
What makes this work challenging to price out is that there are so few people that do it, they can't shop this around.
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:45.360
Right?
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:46.400
Yeah.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:43:01.119
So that's why you got to take the time to get to know them, have a process that you can write on the back of a napkin, and then create the invitation for them to simply, Mark, choose themselves.
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.320
That's all they're really doing here is saying that I matter.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:15.920
I am ready to prioritize my needs and wants and to begin this journey, really ultimately home to themselves.
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:21.119
Because at the end of the line of life, the money doesn't matter.
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.760
But meaningfulness does.
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.559
And that's why we have to take the time to get to know them.
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:28.880
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00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:47.760
Wow, I wish I had had you around 20 something years ago the first time I sold my business.
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.280
But sometimes I'm not the person that is the friend.
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.280
Sometimes I'm like Dave.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:00.960
We're not doing that.
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.320
Dave's like, yes, we are.
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:04.320
I'm like, no, we're not doing that.
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:08.960
And I present back all the things Dave's told me, the former conversations.
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:14.079
So I'm not always the most popular person in the room, but I'm necessary.
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:16.239
Now you're starting to sound like my wife.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:18.880
I mean, it took me three tries to get that.
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:21.679
She's still like, no, not doing that.
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:22.159
Yeah.
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:26.400
Uh, but no, I I hear what you're saying, and and I believe that's true.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:31.519
But um, but yeah, I mean, I think from my own experience, I made a lot of the mistakes you're talking about.
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.400
I rushed right back into doing something else.
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:37.360
And I did repeat many of the same mistakes.
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.519
And, you know, I've done this more than once.
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:47.039
So, like you said, I mean, it it it's hard when you're used to constantly being under the fire.
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.239
If nothing else, that's an addiction.
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:51.360
Dopamine is a good thing.
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:56.079
You keep putting yourself into that situation and then you survive.
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:59.840
It's like, hey, I pulled off another one, you know.
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.559
I call it the wartime CEO.
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.440
Yeah.
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:07.679
But in peacetime, he doesn't know what to do with himself.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:08.480
Exactly.
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.519
You may not get really where you want to go doing that.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:19.119
You could certainly spend your life doing that and and convince yourself that you're being useful in the process.
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:32.079
And maybe you do make money and all those other things, but it's not necessarily what's best for you ultimately, as you say, to get to your desired end state.
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:34.880
You know, you've got some terminology for that.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:39.440
I want to change the subject for a minute, though, back to something you mentioned earlier.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:47.760
Um, and and in this one, I I I really hopefully you can give me some honest opinion on EOS.
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:55.440
And I'm gonna tell you how I feel about it first, and then you can tell me why I'm wrong or whether there's any truth to my thinking.
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.639
I think it's all bullshit.
00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:59.039
I actually hope that we record this and send it.
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.159
I have a call with leadership in two weeks' time.
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:04.719
So I'm I'm excited about this conversation.
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.440
Okay.
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.159
Well, I think it's a lot of it's bullshit.
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:13.679
Um, I've seen lots of EOS implementers, I've seen lots of companies implement.
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:20.800
They have tons of meetings, they have lots of terminology for their rocks and for all this other stuff.
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:22.719
It's real catchy.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:35.920
And in the end, they spend so much time and effort on this process that it becomes like they get mired down in the molasses.
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:40.400
It's it's the opposite of entrepreneurial, in my opinion.
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:42.719
At least that's how I've seen it.
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:47.360
I can't claim to have seen any tremendous successes.
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:54.960
I've seen very long implementations that were eventually abandoned in many cases.
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.519
And yet everybody, you know.
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:07.360
Uh not everybody, a lot of people act as if this is like the savior for everything in business is EOS.
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:11.039
It's kind of like good to great, you know, it's like a Bible.
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:15.039
This Patrick, what's it, Lencioni or however it's pronounced.
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.320
Kim Collins and Patrick Lencioni, Michael Gerber, like all these philosophies, yeah.
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:21.199
Exactly.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:21.679
Yeah.
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:26.639
And and anyway, what you you were an EOS implementer.
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:37.039
You've obviously gone beyond that with your whole thing that you're doing now, which is in my mind it's a lot more holistic and wider ranging.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:38.320
Yeah.
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:39.039
Excellent.
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:40.239
Okay, rapid fire.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:40.800
Ready?
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:41.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:52.719
When EOS was originally built, the model of the implementer was for the post-exit business owner to have something meaningful that they could do to help other business owners.
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:53.440
Okay.
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:53.840
Okay.
00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:56.559
So that was our ICP for the implementer.
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.039
It's gone a lot wider than that.
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:00.320
Yes, it has.
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:01.119
Right?
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:01.760
Yes.
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:03.519
So I'll keep that there.
00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:13.760
Um, those books, Gerber, Lincioni, Collins, uh, Covey, all those things are great in theory, but what owners and teams struggle with is execution.
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:14.079
Yeah.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:32.559
All Gino did was uh design an execution system to create a 90-day world where energy was moving towards a vision, there was accountability, execution on priorities, we're measuring the most important things, and we're having meetings to solve issues and drive execution.
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.719
So we created an execution system, which I think is genius.
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:38.400
I this is the way I work.
00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:44.320
So, like Gino's mind and my work, we're constantly making models to drive execution, better results, and so forth.
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:48.800
So the science of it is magnificent.
00:48:49.039 --> 00:49:00.159
Even though I am no longer a franchisee, at a baseline, I require my clients to implement or have EOS because I ain't going in there every day.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:09.199
But I need the lights on, I need a clear structure, I need a vision that the owners and operators are in line with, the right people in the team.
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:15.039
If I can't see into the team, I cannot determine if we've got the right people on the bus or not.
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.440
And are they actually going to make it through the transaction?
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:25.119
EOS turns the lights on, creates a system at a foundation, and actually is a baseline for value creation.
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:28.719
I build six layers of value on top of EOS.
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.559
So I've required at a minimum.
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.320
It's an execution system that drives change, unlocks growth.
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:37.039
Now, back to the first point.
00:49:37.280 --> 00:50:02.480
When we have people who are implementing EOS who are perhaps not former business owners or not trained to think like a business owner, it can tend to become a focus on retaining the client and preserving the revenue as opposed to adopting entrepreneurial thinking by really going in and changing the game for the business owner and their team.
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:03.199
Okay.
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:09.760
That that I makes a lot of sense to me because I've seen a lot of that out there.
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:10.960
I'm going to keep going.
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:11.760
Can I interrupt you?
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.519
It's your portion, yeah.
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:21.039
24 months to mastery, we should be at 80% or stronger in 24 months if we're doing our job well.
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:21.599
Okay.
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:28.400
The client is intended to graduate, move into independence, and embed the EOS into their DNA.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:33.039
So we're not even talking about EOS, we're just running our business with more discipline.
00:50:33.519 --> 00:50:46.559
So the expectation is you will be graduating and constantly working with new teams because you're imp when you're implementing an ERP or a CRM software in your company, does that go on perpetually?
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:50.719
No, you implement, adopt, and integrate.
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:55.039
So you're not supposed to be working with the implementer indefinitely.
00:50:55.199 --> 00:51:09.199
However, if the company's acquiring and bringing on new companies, spinning off, moves to an acquisition and goes through different major life cycle shifts, absolutely the implementer may be value added along the way.
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:19.039
The other piece here is that we have got so focused on learning the science of it, we've lost the art of it.
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:24.960
So with science is everybody needs to be in a meeting and everybody needs a measurable and all these things.
00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:29.840
So we often over-engineer EOS in the business.
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:30.639
Okay.
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:48.960
So the implementer needs to understand the size and scale and journey of that business, really right-size EOS for that company, and recognize pulling the entire production staff off the floor for a level 10 is ludicrous.
00:51:49.599 --> 00:52:02.880
But there are meeting rhythms that we can have, ways that we can cascade information, but there's nuance, and the implementer needs to work with the team to really make EOS their own rather than being hard and fast regimented.
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.239
So we can avoid the excess and make it their own.
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:14.880
But the biggest thing, Mark, that I learned, and the reason why I stepped out for a period of time, and I'm not saying I would never go back.
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:18.079
Those are some of the conversations that I'm having coming up.
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:25.920
But the biggest miss, in my opinion, is we're not having the most important conversation.
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:29.119
What does the owner want?
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:39.599
My work carves out the owner's box, sits with the owner there, builds the plan, and aligns the team with it.
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:43.920
It's their business, it's their future.
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:44.559
Right.
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.199
And the owners and operators have to align.
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:53.360
You can use EOS.
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:59.599
You can also have a really good strategic planning process in my mind that's going to do a lot of these things.
00:52:59.920 --> 00:53:13.280
But, you know, when it comes to that, I mean, you're right on with that, because I always thought it was absurd when I'd see companies that are like going out to their employees and asking them what the vision for the company should be.
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:18.719
If the owners don't know that, what how in the world are your employees going to tell you that?
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.440
It's like asking the kids, how should we live our life?
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:22.320
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:23.920
Parents are in charge.
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:27.679
It's it's so true.
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:28.559
Wow.
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.599
Well, it's really been interesting talking with you, Renee.
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:35.360
And um, I can see why you're effective.
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:48.079
Uh uh you have a uh a very clear way of communicating in uh real words that don't sound like BS.
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:55.519
And I can tell you've had a lot of experience that's valuable, and uh I'm sure you provide a lot of value to your clients.
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:02.639
If somebody does want to learn more about you or reach out to you, where do they find you?
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:09.920
LinkedIn is a place that I exist uh on a weekly basis.
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:13.280
So Renee Russo Rise Up BC on there.
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:18.320
Uh my website is riseupbc.com.
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:23.440
Uh and so uh the fastest way is probably LinkedIn.
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:28.320
Uh but you can contact me by email from the website as well.
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:34.159
There is a book that I would recommend every business owner read, and it's called Walking to Destiny.
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:45.599
And it outlines the inevit uh 11 essential things that every business owner must do to ensure that they are free to walk to their destiny and live their life by design.
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:56.000
It covers the personal planning, financial planning, and business planning, what to expect from your advisor ecosystem, and how to create the execution system to get there.
00:54:56.320 --> 00:55:01.679
Yes, you'll need a guide, and certified exit planning advisors are certified in that method.
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:05.679
Uh, people like me, specifically quarterback the entirety of that.
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:13.920
And uh every business owner, I just encourage you to recognize that if you don't matter, nothing matters.
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:19.679
Everything you need really starts with asking yourself important questions.
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:20.800
Who am I?
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:22.000
What do I want?
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:23.280
Where am I going?
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:26.400
And then looking at the business through that lens.
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.280
Because if you don't matter, nothing matters.
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:30.400
It's awesome.
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:31.039
All right.
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:34.000
Well, hey, it's been great having you on the show here.
00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:37.119
I hope we get a chance to talk again sometime.
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:40.320
And uh I wish you the very best.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:45.039
And clearly you're helping many people, and that's a noble endeavor.
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:46.480
Thank you.
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.599
So I'm very thankful for this opportunity.
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:50.639
Thank you.
00:55:50.800 --> 00:56:01.199
And uh so everybody, I guess this concludes another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.com.
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.719
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:24.960
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00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:29.119
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