How Does God Speak? 10 Biblical Ways to Hear and Discern His Voice

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Let me pray for this one.
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Jesus, we love you.
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Ask that you'd speak through this podcast.
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I pray for everyone listening that their hearts would be open, that they would learn to hear your voice.
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Wouldn't it be amazing if those who listen to this podcast become more and more open to the reality that you are always speaking?
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And I pray that you would speak directly to the hearts and minds of the listeners and give them tools they need to discern and be led by you to please you, Father.
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Bless Angela and John as we we do this moment together.
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Fill it with your life and glory and be glorified by it in Jesus' name.
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Amen.
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In Jesus' name.
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Amen.
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All right, welcome back to the Bible study podcast.
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I'm Darren.
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I'm Ange.
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And I'm John.
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John's here.
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Hey John.
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Can I ask you guys a question?
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Because your banter is the best.
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It's kind of like you guys have this flow.
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Clearly, you've been friends for 18 years.
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Have you ever gotten into an argument?
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Oh, yeah.
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Really?
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Yeah, and a fist fight one time.
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So yeah.
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Okay, he won't arm wrestle me because he's like, he's got wicked strength.
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He's got this weird, strong weird.
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Weird.
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It's like, I don't know, man.
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It's insane.
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It's his dad's strength.
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It's dad's strength.
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Oh, I don't know.
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Wait, okay.
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He's just a year older than you.
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So that's true.
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In conflict.
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Like, what's the dynamic?
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Who's who's the aggressor?
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Oh, what do you think?
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I'm usually the aggressor.
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Yeah.
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I'm usually the one that says something out, you know, in haste or emotionally and out of anger.
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And then I have to apologize, which I always 99% have had to grow in saying, hey, Darren.
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That hurt hurt.
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Yeah.
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Really?
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And then I have to say that hurt only like once or twice.
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Maybe not even.
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No, but it was some stuff we've had to work through.
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That's amazing, though.
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I mean, best friends ministry together.
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Well, best friends are best friends first and then ministry.
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So learning how to work with this boss.
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And then like we actually, and then we had to transition when our church was growing, like had to move you out of a space.
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He was like the number two, but it wasn't primarily wired for.
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No.
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What he's doing now is what God created him to do.
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But to have that awkward conversation was really hard.
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Yeah.
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But our friendship at that point was like, okay, we can have this conversation.
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But it was, yeah.
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I mean, Ari and I have a similar situation where we were best friends, then began working together, ministry partners, and like hearing you guys be friends in ministry, in ministry together for 18 years.
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It's like a marriage in a sense.
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Like you've had to overcome so much, probably, right?
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Yeah.
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I mean, I've had to save him a lot.
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You have.
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I took him camping once and he did not have the right equipment.
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Okay.
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This is the worst story.
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Hold on.
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This is like we went camping for our friends.
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We go in January during COVID.
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We go to Joshua Tree.
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And Joshua Tree is the desert.
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Okay.
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I haven't ever backpacked at this point in my life, so I buy all the gear.
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I don't know what to do.
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I have a back, I have a part.
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I get the stuff.
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Yeah, I did look the part.
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But that's all that matters.
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It was like 24 degrees at night and snowy, and I didn't have any any equipment for that.
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So that night was the worst night of my life.
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It's snowing outside.
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I put on everything I own to sleep in, which is very little at that point.
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Which is essentially not really.
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My sleeping bag is for like you know, only 60 degrees or something, or 40 degrees.
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It was not a sleeping bag for 24.
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Yeah.
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I don't have an insulated mat.
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I literally thought I was gonna die.
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It was I'm so I thought he'd be frozen in the tent because I'm like I don't sleep.
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It's just like shaking like this.
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That's so sweet.
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I wake up, I wake up early because I'm trying to find the sun and like climbing out and get to the sun.
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And John opens his tent and steam comes out.
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And he's got like no shirt on.
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He's just like got a coffee made.
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Like he's like super warm.
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Yeah, you knew what to do.
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He yeah, he didn't have the right equipment.
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I did not have the right equipment.
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That was the worst.
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Did you let him into your tent?
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Is the real question?
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I think I gave him, I think I gave you something the next night.
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I thought I gave you an insulator.
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You gave me the insulated thing to sleep in.
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I was it was but the last the next two nights were not as cold.
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No, they weren't.
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But I literally sleep in a river bed, so I was frozen, and I'll never forget that night.
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I'll let ever I won't let anyone like forget that moment because I almost died.
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Yeah, I almost died.
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And you guys were just like a merge thing.
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I take care, I make sure he's he does.
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Yeah, on my 40th birthday, I went to Costa Rica with eight guys, and we all surfed except for John.
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And the best thing about it is John is an excellent cook, and we would come back surfing, and this guy would have like pour over coffee ready and the most insane meal.
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And it was like the best friend you can have.
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Yeah.
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No, it's but you know what's also awkward is like when our our wives are really our best friends too, and it will be like we're having a fight because I'm not handy around the house.
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And she's like, Do you want me to text John?
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I'm like, What?
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So funny.
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John would figure this out.
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John would have already done this.
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So like, whatever, Alex.
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But we're relationship secure enough to be able to say those things.
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Oh, I love it.
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And Alex and Lydia are best friends.
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Yeah, they're good.
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Oh, that's so sweet.
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That's great.
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Yeah.
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And I think you say something like this.
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I don't realize how rare atypical this is.
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Minister friends, like it doesn't happen.
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Yeah.
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But it's not without a cost and not without fighting for.
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Yeah, you have to fight for we we've learned through the hard things.
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And that's the thing, is we're committed to one another.
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There's covenant friendship, and we've learned, yeah, we don't hold secrets, and we have fought to preserve our relationship because we've seen, I mean, you see it in ministry.
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Like people stop, you know, they they lose friendships.
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That's one of the things I love.
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Like, I like we have a group of leaders, elders that have been at our church for 18 years, and they're still serving some of them are on staff.
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Like one of our other friends, Lindsay Tim Tim, I her her and her husband have been at our church from the beginning as well.
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She just came on staff as a hospitality associate, and she's now working for the church.
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And I've known her for 18 years.
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And that's crazy.
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And there's like we have great relationships, but it's also because we've learned how to have conflict.
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I think that's probably the biggest thing is we've we've not not always well, but we've definitely learned how to have conflict.
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And now we learn how to do it well.
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Yep.
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So you guys can teach me next.
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Oh man.
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Yeah, we'll do a thing about learning to not be offended, learning to give feedback, um, learning how to listen better.
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Forgive.
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This it's mostly me learning how to be a better human and then everyone else around me, you know, calling me out on my stuff.
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You forgive easily.
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Oh, yeah.
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Easily.
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Me too.
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Me too.
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So easy.
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Yeah.
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Me too.
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It's because we're all probably codependent.
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Codependent people, pleasers.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I'm a two on the Enneagram, just need to be needed.
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So yeah, dude.
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I'm a seven.
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I just want to have fun.
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You just want you to avoid pain.
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Yes.
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You don't want to do it alone.
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I don't want to do it alone.
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You want to if if somebody needs something, let's go.
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I'll be whatever you need me to be.
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And I'm a three.
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I I have to, I can't fail.
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So it's fun conversation.
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We're a great trio.
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Yeah.
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People don't know what Enneagram is, so it's not demonic.
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It's just everything's okay.
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Not the Illuminati.
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What I just have to say it every time.
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Ever since the first episode.
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I I like went like this.
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I was like, this is the Bible study podcast.
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You did it again.
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And I think my hand made a triangle.
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Yeah, that's yeah.
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We'll trade.
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Can I say something?
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You know, since we're not jumping in yet, I just want to speak to the online world.
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But here we go.
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Because I don't know how this happened, but there's now this ministry of reaction going on where people will take clips, and I've seen some of you, obviously, people do it for me, but I'm a I'm a local church pastor.
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I preach to a congregation.
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I study the word.
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I lead a flock of thousands of people.
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I have a team of accountability, I have elders, I have a board of directors, I have pastors and you know leaders outside that I submit to.
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I've studied theology, I have a master's, I've done all the work to have now the ability to communicate the things in a context.
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But now this world of online ministry exists, and we're doing it.
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We're doing Bible study podcasts, we're giving content out to the world.
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But for some reason, there's like this social media influencer world where you got saved and now you're an expert on Christianity.
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Yeah.
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And that is so dangerous.
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And I want to just say what I love.
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This is what I love.
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You guys don't know this about Angela.
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Been at our church for over two years.
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We've not platformed her at our church.
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She hasn't led anything.
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Tonight, she's preaching at our youth for the first time.
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And I told our youth when she was coming, like, you don't ask her to do anything because I we didn't know her character.
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We didn't know if she was a woman of God or not.
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And now watching her, she serves on our setup team in Costa Mesa.
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She's on our prayer team.
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Like she's part of a local church.
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She's she's connected to our team.
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And I can vouch for you and speak to the character.
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I don't know how many I'm I'm seeing these people comment and react to other pastors and other influencers.
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Like someone was going after Allie.
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And I was like, I'm so furious that people are going to go after her.
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I know her character, I know what she's walking through, I know who she is.
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And just because you have people following, you think you can speak and react to everything, that ministry that is not a ministry.
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That's gossip.
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And I want to say if you are someone who is has a platform and you're influencing people and you're not in a local church, serving in the local church, I don't want to listen to you.
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So good.
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100%.
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I think pastors need to get on board.
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We need to create like a dynamic accountability structure where we say these voices of influence need to have no influence for the next generation unless they're committed into a local community.
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They're being raised up under spiritual leadership and discipleship.
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Why is that so important?
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Well, people are being led astray by TikTok people and YouTubers.
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Yeah.
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And there's no, like, we need to follow saints.
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We need to follow people who have studied scripture and lived in the desert and died faithfully and got executed for their faith.
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We need to follow theologians and pastors whose character are held accountable by community.
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Like, I don't know where in the world we got to the point where because you have lots of people following, you can talk about anyone that's talked about anything online and have a platform.
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That's not a ministry.
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Yeah.
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And so good.
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Ministry in in the word itself is diaconia.
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It's it means service.
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And that's a service to nobody.
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And you're like, well, I'm protecting truth.
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No, you're not.
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Get in a local church and build something there.
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Yes.
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And if you are great.
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I don't, I'm not talking to you.
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But if you're not, this is your call out right now.
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And I don't know where why I'm doing it on this podcast.
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We should just start a nonprofit that's like a certified local church stamp of approval.
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I don't want to do that.
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I just want to say we gotta just, I don't know why.
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Like I was talking to Pastor Bill, who's 70 something, my mentor, and he's talking about on church.
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Yeah, he's also acknowledging like this is now a world where it's like we're reacting to all these things, thinking the virality of these things matter, and it's vapor.
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Yeah, it's absolute vapor.
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I don't think Paul would be watching someone talk and react in a video, like he just doesn't have time.
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He's building a look at the time.
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He said, Yeah.
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And and yeah, anyways, it's so funny that you say that though.
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I've been thinking about that so much recently that I used to be just like everybody else, a little critical.
00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:47.039
It's all about my preference.
00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.919
Go to church, judge every church, judge every pastor.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.879
The second I started serving at a church, there is no critical spirit within me.
00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:00.159
Like I literally have no judgment whatsoever because I'm just happy to be there.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:00.639
That's right.
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.000
Like it just it shifts come something in your heart when you actually serve.
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:07.120
And you just don't know, like, so we're not in competition with other churches.
00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:07.519
Of course.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:09.519
We're in competition against Satan, right?
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.440
And so we love, like, we're in Orange County and we're in LA.
00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.080
Like, I can name so many pastors that I love.
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:19.279
And in Orange County, I love Mariner's Church and Saddleback Church.
00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:20.240
I love Oceans Church.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.440
I love Canopy Church.
00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:22.879
I love Cornerstone Church.
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.320
I love Branches Church.
00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.399
There are so many incredible churches.
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.200
I'm like, great, we're we're we're all friends, go good.
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:36.240
But somehow in the Christian world, you see a clip and you take 10 seconds or 20 seconds of a 45-minute talk and you're gonna react to it.
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.399
That's just that world needs to stop.
00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:47.360
I'm sorry, I'm just I'm just pouring water into the ocean, but I'm I I really feel like let me just say to those that listen to this, don't follow those people.
00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:49.279
Yeah, we don't need to like that.
00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:52.720
That's like that's like the gossip stuff that Paul says to avoid.
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:53.039
Yeah.
00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:54.159
Like, I'm you know what?
00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:54.559
Forget this.
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:56.960
I'm gonna go biblical on the and we're gonna talk about hearing God's voice.
00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:57.919
You know what I think it does?
00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.759
I think it grieves the heart of God.
00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:02.399
I think it grieves the spirit of God.
00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:05.200
I actually think you're engaging in a false gospel.
00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:06.639
I'm gonna, I'm gonna preach now.
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.360
This is what I'm gonna do because it it bothers me enough in my spirit.
00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:10.240
I'm not angry.
00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:18.639
I'm concerned for a generation that doesn't know the difference between true teachers of the word of God and people who have influence.
00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:25.200
It says, avoid godless chatter because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:27.679
Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.120
And he lists people who do that.
00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:33.120
And it says, they say that the resurrection has already taken place and they destroy their faith.
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:38.240
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription.
00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:41.200
The Lord knows those who are his.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.600
And everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.840
Like, why are we attacking Christians in our little theological nuances?
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:50.879
This I'm just gonna preach.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:51.279
Here we go.
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:52.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:53.440
Because you know what's interesting about this?
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.679
And we can we'll get into hearing God's voice.
00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:58.480
You're not gonna hear God's voice if you're listening to godless chatter.
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:08.879
The reason you don't hear God's voice is because you're obsessed with YouTube, you're obsessed with Instagram, you're obsessed with so much mindless chatter and gossip that you can't tell the difference between what your voice is and his voice is.
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:11.039
So if you want to learn, stop listening to those voices.
00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:11.519
That's one.
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:16.960
The second thing is what I what I see is I was reading Matthew 9, and in Matthew 9, it's absolutely amazing.
00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.000
Jesus heals a paralyzed guy and says, Your sins are forgiven.
00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:21.279
Jesus casts out demons.
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.879
Jesus heals a guy who's mute.
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:28.080
Jesus heals Jairus' daughter who died, and the woman who bled for 12 years touches him.
00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:28.960
She gets healed.
00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.360
Jesus gets confronted by John's disciples.
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.399
They don't like that he's not fasting and his disciples are not fasting.
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:35.440
Why don't they like it?
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.440
Because they were the revival group, the move of God that's bringing everyone back.
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.399
And part of their way God moved was through fasting.
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:48.799
And now that this new move of God isn't fitting their move of God, they're offended by the fact that they're not fasting.
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.919
And then the disciples see all this and they're confused what's going on.
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.200
Then the Pharisees come around and they want to add their theological nuance.
00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:59.360
They want to add that he's the source of his ministry, is the prince of demons.
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:00.399
And you know what I think?
00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:02.320
I think there's something going on in the Christian world.
00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:11.519
God's doing something, he's bringing people to the Catholic Church, to the Orthodox Church, to the Protestant evangelical church, to charismatic churches, to Bible-believing churches.
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:12.720
He's moving.
00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:25.279
And you have Christians, the insiders, who want to add their nuance, want to talk about their theology, who want to argue their little semantics and get their words in with the little chatter box in the side and choose gospel clarity over this thing.
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:31.759
And it really bothers me because you're just a Pharisee who has no business judging the move of God.
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:33.200
You know what Jesus says?
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.279
Pray to the Lord of the harvest for God to send workers into the harvest.
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:44.320
He's not asking for opinions or gossipers or strategists.
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:45.360
He's asking for workers.
00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.600
That's the word in Greek, day laborers.
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:56.879
He's asking for people who have compassion on the crowds and see them as sheep without a shepherd and goes into the shepherds, the fields as a shepherd and does the work.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.840
That's what I want to say.
00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.279
That's a little prophetic rant.
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:00.399
Sorry, I don't know when it comes up.
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.799
I preach like this and it just happens, and you're getting something that's fresh.
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:07.279
Because I think in this online world, we need to do better.
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.519
And honestly, as we talk about hearing God's voice right now, this is something we need to do.
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.399
If you repent from entertaining gossip, then you're going to be open to more of his words and voices.
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:17.039
Okay, there we go.
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:18.399
Well, I think this is so good.
00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:19.039
This is so good.
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:20.000
So important.
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:20.639
Come on.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.679
And maybe we start here because I think it's about perspective.
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:24.320
Yes.
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:24.799
Great.
00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:26.399
So it's about go there.
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.240
What do you think is actually the ministry and the kingdom of God?
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.559
What do we actually believe that this is part of?
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:34.559
How do we continue the ministry of Jesus?
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.639
And I think the eyes that we have to see have to be ones that Jesus had a lens for.
00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:39.039
Yes.
00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:50.159
So if we think that Jesus' ministry ended with his death and resurrection, then the worldview that we have, the perspective that we have that he's going to minister and move in this time is going to be built back in time.
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.320
Like he is actively moving right now.
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:57.919
He's wanting to fill his people, to expand his kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:58.159
Yes.
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.639
And so if we're tied up in these kind of earthly affairs, where do we minister from?
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:04.480
We don't minister from an earthly mindset.
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:06.240
We minister from a heavenly mindset.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:06.720
That's right.
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.440
We want what's in heaven to be resourced for what is happening here.
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:12.639
That's where Jesus Christ.
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.279
Well, okay, first of all, I want to say we need good theology.
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:20.480
We need gospel clarity.
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:25.120
We need to challenge heresy and false teachers and false gospels.
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:26.080
I'm not against that.
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:26.960
Of course that.
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:34.480
But there's a dynamic that's popularized through you have an iPhone and now you can say whatever you want because you have a follower.
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.000
What qualifies you for that?
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:43.039
And you can do that isolated in your own little room with a little ring light and you call it a ministry.
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.320
No, that's not true.
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:45.120
That's not a thing.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:46.320
Ministry is with people.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.720
I don't believe ministry exists apart from relationship.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:49.039
Yes.
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:50.000
Show me that in the Bible.
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.559
That's great.
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:50.960
Right.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.000
So I just want to say that.
00:16:52.080 --> 00:17:01.039
But what I want to get to now, and this is our point, this is where you're going, is, and obviously I'm I'm passionate about this because I see so many young people being led down this path.
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:02.639
And it's it's the wrong path.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.000
It's it's it's it's not the path people need to choose.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.079
And what I want to talk about now is the prayer ministry that we we get after.
00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:19.759
And there are theological assumptions we make around how we participate in the ministry God has for everyday ordinary people in everyday ordinary life.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.079
And I think that is a conviction we have.
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:23.519
That's a theological conviction.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:30.160
Jesus says in John 10, verse 27, My sheep listen to my voice, I know them and they follow me.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.440
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.359
No one will snatch them out of my hand.
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:44.960
In Matthew 7, verse 24, it says, Therefore, any everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.400
The first thing Jesus says is sheep knows how to hear his voice.
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:52.960
They listen to him and they follow him, and he gives them life that lasts.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.880
The second, in a different context, is coming at the end of the Sermon on the Mount.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.359
And this is about discipleship.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:07.519
A disciple of Jesus hears his voice and puts them into practice, engages, trains with them.
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:10.240
Like I my I signed up for a Hyrox race.
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:11.359
Do you know what Hyrux is?
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.079
It's just incredible.
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:12.799
Running.
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:13.599
It's running.
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.519
It involves it involves more things.
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:17.519
Okay, I'm so glad you diminished that.
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:18.400
It's totally fine.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:20.720
A Hyrux race is like a popular thing.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.079
I I did it last year.
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:24.559
I just signed up in seven days and I did it, or six days.
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:25.680
Would you advise that?
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:26.799
I do not advise it.
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:27.920
And this is the perfect illustration.
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:29.440
Almost died.
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:30.799
I saw this meme the other day.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:31.440
It was so great.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:34.319
It was a picture of someone high-roxing and said, Did you meet anyone famous?
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:34.960
And they're like, Yes.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:38.640
And it was like, that's exactly it.
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:43.279
But it's like eight one kilometer sprints with eight workouts, and the workouts are insane.
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:45.839
And the last thing you do is eight a hundred wall balls.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.319
And I kept getting no reps because I wasn't going deep enough.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:48.960
And I didn't train.
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:49.920
So it was, it was brutal.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:50.799
It was the worst thing I had.
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.640
It was worse than running a marathon by far.
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:54.079
I was in so much pain.
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:59.519
But a disciple is someone who trains for the race so that you can complete it.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:02.240
So many people don't finish the race that you set out.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.440
So I've been training.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:04.480
I signed up for Hyrux.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.359
I've been training for a few months and I'm I got an intentional plan.
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:15.440
And every single day for the next 90 days, I have a training schedule for this race because I don't want to just finish the race.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:17.680
I want to do the race the way it was meant to be.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:18.559
That's discipleship.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:19.680
Three on the integram, yeah.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:21.039
Three in the integral.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:22.480
Yeah, sorry.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:24.400
Come on, guys.
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:24.960
Sorry.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.160
So if you're a follower of Jesus, can I just make this clear?
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:29.839
This is the assumption I'm trying to get to.
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.240
If you're a follower of Jesus, a disciple of Jesus, you have to learn how to hear God's voice.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:35.519
And that's that's my assumption.
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.200
That's that God's speaking, yes, and we you learn how to hear his voice.
00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.039
And that's how we start our prayer training.
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.839
Because the prayer training we have, and then what we've learned, this is everything we've received.
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:47.200
This isn't new under the sun.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.039
Like we have learned from so many, but the foundation of it is not a model.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:55.599
And it's not like okay, five steps, and now you're gonna unlock God's power and presence.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.759
It is learning to be obedient to the one who is always speaking.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.240
Okay, if I were to summarize discipleship, it's uh hearing and obeying.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:05.119
Hear and obeying.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:05.519
That's it.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.160
Hear and obey.
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:06.799
Hear and obey.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:07.279
Wow.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:08.720
We make this so complex.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:13.119
And I think that sometimes it creates this ceiling, like, I can't do what Jesus did.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.319
Like you can't outside of his power and presence.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.079
And we pursue the person, we don't pursue the model, we don't pursue encounters, we pursue the person.
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:22.240
The person of Jesus is what we're talking about here.
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:27.599
And so the two things that we begin with in our prayer training is first that God is the initiator of connection.
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:29.599
He is longing for connection.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:31.920
He was the one who met Adam in the garden.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:32.480
Yeah.
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.400
He is the father who is running after his boy, coming back.
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.160
He is for God so loved the world.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.160
He is the initiator of connection.
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:49.920
So if we have a perspective of a distorted view, a distorted view of oh, God's busy with everyone else's prayers.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:50.160
Yeah.
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:54.079
Oh, I'm I'm just a you know, one of a billion.
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:55.839
How is he gonna listen to me?
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.759
I have to somehow meet him in a way where he's not meeting me.
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:00.319
That's right.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:08.880
And I heard uh one of a mentor that I I love following, Coi Russell, he says, you know, God is not, God is not a middle class father with limited resources.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:17.039
Like, you know, and it's like we we have this mindset of abundance, of scarcity that we're somehow taking up God's time.
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.319
Yeah, I'm laughing because I'm a middle class father with limited resources.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:21.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:21.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:23.119
You are middle of God's father.
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:24.319
Yeah, but that's how we view God.
00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:25.440
No, I know, you're right.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.039
You know, and so like that's not the case.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:27.599
That's right.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:28.400
So God's initiative.
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.440
And the second thing is that we are perfectly designed to hear God's voice.
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:33.119
So you read so good.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:34.640
You read John, you read John 10.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:35.839
Yeah, my sheep know my voice.
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:36.160
Yeah.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.559
And so I think one of the things that we train and teach is that you were perfectly designed.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.359
I think a lot of lives people believe, like, oh dog, God doesn't speak to me.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:43.680
Yeah.
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.640
Um, I'm too far gone to hear his voice.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.319
Or it's been it's it's it's actually a muscle to be trained.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:50.559
Right.
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:51.920
And I this is what I've discovered.
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:53.359
I've discovered that it is a muscle.
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:54.400
I've learned to listen.
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:59.759
Darren, you talk about this, but when I hear the voice of God, it is like a butterfly that is.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.000
It's like it lands and it's gone.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:02.559
Yeah.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:06.880
And I I've learned to pay attention to that little, like, what was that?
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:07.839
That wasn't my thoughts.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.920
And there's a test, you know, this discernment.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:10.880
Is this the voice of God?
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.200
Is this consistent with the character of who Jesus is?
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:19.039
But there's this listening muscle that grows in hearing God's voice that I think is so important for us to begin with.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.759
We have to begin with knowing that He speaks and is still speaking.
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.279
Let's so I want to talk about all the theological ways.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.319
I just want to give people access to understand how God speaks.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:35.440
We'll get into that.
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.000
But clearly the Bible teaches a whole bunch of ways.
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:39.519
But can I say something interesting?
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:41.920
I love nerding out on things.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:47.920
When I was teaching a long time ago about hearing and obeying, do you do you know the Shema prayer in Deuteronomy 6.4?
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.920
Deuteronomy 6.4 is like the kind of the pledge of allegiance of the Jewish faith.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:55.599
It's like the the summary of the doctrine for the Jewish community.
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They would say the Shema, like morning, noon, and night essentially.
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You walk into a new place, you say the Shema.
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It's Deuteronomy 6.4 is hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
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And then verse 5 is love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.319
So that word hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.240
It's Shema Israel Adonai Elohino, Adonai Echad.
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:19.680
That is the Hebrew for it.
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:23.839
So that word Shema in Hebrew means to hear, right?
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:24.319
So here.
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So you would say the Shema.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:27.759
That was the verse four.
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That's what you say over and over again.
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In English, it's translated, Shemma is here.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.960
So in our Bible, it says here, O Israel.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:40.640
But then if you go to Exodus 24, 7, it says, Then he took the book of the covenant and read it to the people.
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They responded, We will do everything the Lord has said, we will obey.
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:50.079
And in Hebrew, Exodus 24, verse 7, that word obey is Shema.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:53.200
So Shema means hear and obey.
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:55.680
Well, it's the same word in Hebrew.
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:59.039
So the English word for obey is translated from Hebrew, the word Shema.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:09.440
Shema literally means to hear and obey, which is the fundamental difference because in the Greek mindset, which we're more influenced by the Greeks, to hear is mental activity.
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:10.240
Right?
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.319
So let's listen to something.
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:19.920
But in Hebrew, to hear means to allow the words to sink in, to provide understanding, and to generate a response.
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In other words, hearing is the same as doing, which I think is that speaks to today.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.920
Because what do we want, like, what do we want to be judged by?
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Our intentions.
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:31.599
Yes.
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But in the Hebrew, like to hear is to obey, is to go after the things.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:37.359
So I just want to say that.
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Like when I go back to discipleship, hearing and obeying, it's it's anchored in this Old Testament framework.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:43.920
But okay, how does God speak today?
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I want to go through a few of these quickly.
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I could go through a whole theology of this, but what we see over and over again is God, number one, speaks through Jesus.
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.519
In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God.
00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:04.160
Hebrews 1 says, In the past, God spoke to our ancestors, to the prophets, at many times in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:06.640
We know that God speaks through Jesus.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.640
Second, he speaks through scripture.
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All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:20.240
God speaks through creation.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:21.839
Romans makes a case for this.
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For the since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature has been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that people are without excuse.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:35.440
So God speaks to Jesus, He speaks to creation, He speaks through Scripture.
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:38.880
In First Corinthians, it says that God speaks through prophecy.
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Verse chapter 14, verse 1, it says, Follow the way of love and eagerly desire the gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.
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But the one who prophesies, verse 3, speaks to people for the strengthening, comforting, encouragement.
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Prophecy is when God speaks to you through somebody else.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.480
Okay, so God speaks through prophecy.
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That's in the Bible.
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Yes?
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Yes.
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What's also in the Bible?
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Well, if you were to do a study of how God speaks in the gospel of Matthew or Luke or the book of Acts, he speaks a lot through dreams and visions.
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And I don't think we do enough of this in the church.
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We don't like hold them as as powerful as often.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.880
But how many stories of God speaking through visions?
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Like Acts 10 is a crazy one.
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I want to just highlight this.
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In Acts 10, verse 9, it says, About noon the following day, as they were on their journey approaching the city, Peter went up to the roof to pray.
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He became hungry and wanted something to eat.
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And while he was, while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
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He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheep being let down to earth by its four corners.
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And he sees this vision of unclean animals, and God says, Eat.
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And what I love about this is he has this vision that he has to now interpret.
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And he's he's like, Don't call something that's unclean clean that I've made clean.
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He's like, I don't get what this means.
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And he's walking down because someone's knocking on the door.
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And Cornelius, a Gentile soldier, sent some servants to this house because God told him by an angel to go find Peter.
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He's staying at the Tanner's house.
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And Peter then goes to this Gentile's house, is hosted, practices hospitality, preaches the gospel, and they're filled with the Holy Spirit.
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And now Gentiles have the spirit of God and they're they're included.
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It's the first time after that dream.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:22.799
What was it?
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A vision empowered the expansion of the church to the world.
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Like in it, and so you have a Jewish boy that you have Peter, a Jewish young man who is you know taught to keep himself clean and don't touch anything unclean, don't be part of a Gentile.
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We're talking thousands of years of tradition gone with a vision.
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Yeah.
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And it gets discerned and confirmed in the council a few chapters later.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:56.000
So it, you know, he brings this vision and the experience of the gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit, which were evident and expressed through tongues and prophecy according to the scripture.
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:01.200
So they're baptized in the name of Jesus, they're filled with the Spirit, or and before actually they're filled with the Spirit before they're baptized.
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Sorry, in that story.
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And that becomes a testimony that God's moving in the Gentiles.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.839
There's something so interesting that you just said about how one vision changed thousands of years of tradition.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:12.400
Yeah.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:12.720
Okay.
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:14.960
I mean, so that's what Acts is doing.
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So what I don't think people understand is, you know, 1500 years of the Jewish law embodied in Israel through the people of God over time, Jesus as the Messiah, fulfilling the law, and then the Spirit of God comes in Acts 2.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:30.799
And then the church just goes off and it's Judean.
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:40.640
It goes Jerusalem, Judea, and then it gets out to now the Tanner's house in Caesarea, and Gentile Roman soldier is now filled with the Holy Spirit.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:46.640
An unclean man who's conspiring with Rome is now carrying the presence of God.
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All of the categories of that separated Israel from the rest of the world are done.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:51.759
Wow.
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And it was prompted through a vision.
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Wild.
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Right?
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So this is this is how God speaks.
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But also he speaks through angels, right?
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So if you read Luke and like and Matthew, just and and then read Acts.
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See how often angels are involved in all of it.
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There's so much angelic stuff going on.
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And and then another way, just if you're keeping record, seven, this we're on number seven, is God speaks with the audible voice.
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I've never heard the audible voice of God.
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Maybe one day, you know, you read Exodus three, Moses, Moses, and you know, take off your sandals.
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This place is holy.
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The audible voice is how God speaks.
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And we've heard stories, you have testimonies throughout history.
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Now there's a couple more, and this is where I want to get into like some of the practical stuff, because this is how God mostly speaks, how most of us hear it.
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We obviously hear through scripture.
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We, for those of us that are part of local churches that believe in the gifts of the spirit, we hear through prophecy.
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And with prophecy, you know, there's other gifts under there, words of knowledge and things like that.
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I'll put that under the prophetic nature of how God speaks.
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Another way, and I would say unfortunately, this is how most people hear God because they don't have a loving relationship with Jesus.
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They don't recognize that He's always trying to dialogue and commune.
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Most people navigate life by hearing God through circumstances.
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And that, hey, that is the reality.
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We read in the book of Acts, we've talked about this.
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There are closed doors, and then there are open doors.
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There are circumstances that God speaks through.
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And those are tricky ones because we're constantly navigating.
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Is this an open door or should I take it?
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And so that's where a whole other conversation about, you know, discernment.
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But you know, a closed door could be from God, or closed door could be Satan stopping you.
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Wow.
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Right.
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So you don't know.
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Sometimes you need to follow the closed door and look for the open.
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Sometimes you need to walk through, you need to not walk through the open door and kick down the closed door because Satan's holding it down.
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But that's where there's a lot of conversation around wisdom and discerning his voice through the circumstances.
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And that's the trickiest of them all.
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The next one is what we're what we're getting into, and how most of us, when we pray for people, I think we hear God's voice.
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And this is where we hear we have a sense or a gut feeling.
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That's the the butterfly.
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Like where I've heard it, I think it's John Mumford taught us this.
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It's like we're praying for someone, or we just have this like little tiny butterfly get on our shoulder and we have this sense.
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Like, I should, I shouldn't like that boy's coming home, and then the butterfly goes away.
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Yeah.
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And you're left with an impression, this sense that, okay, God wants me to say, God wants me to minister to this guy, this stranger I don't know.
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And now you have to discern is that God's voice?
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:19.519
Is it the lunch that I just ate?
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And what am I gonna do?
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Yeah.
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And you direct your life based on that sense.
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Can I just say right away and we'll talk about this?
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If you have a sense, for me, it's a hundred percent just do it.
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Like for it's like if I get a sense, hey, pull over and give that person cash, I pull over and give cash.
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If I get a sense where, like this happens all the time to me, where it'll be like, I'll see someone, I'll hear about a circumstance, and I'll go, Alex, I think we should venomo somebody.
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.039
She's like, just she's always like, just do it.
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Because you'll either I'll either not stop until we do it, yeah, or I'll find a million reasons not to give something away.
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Yeah, or like if I'm driving and I have a sense, go pull over and do it.
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If I don't stop immediately, I'll just I'll inconvenience myself out of doing it, right?
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So Alex, too much of an inconvenience.
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So I I can't turn around.
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It can happen so quickly where the butterfly leads.
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And this is where where it matters.
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This is where you're where like you're doing, you're learning how to please the Holy Spirit.
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Yeah, you're learning how to do what pleases God, yes, and you're staying sensitive to that.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:25.279
So if you get a prompt, if you're sensitive and you get a sense, you don't know, but if you obey and then it's met with an encounter or reward or or the blessing of obedience.
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Yeah, the blessing of obedience.
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You just did it, you just did it, and you're learning to hear his voice.
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Yeah, even in the failure.
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Even in the failure, yeah.
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Because there's no failure in the kingdom of the day.
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There's no failure.
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It's like growing in this stuff, it's growth.
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:47.519
So if I judged my daughter's ability to walk based off of the first step that she took, wow, I would say she's not designed to walk.
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Like she is not going to walk.
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So why even try?
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Keep her crawling.
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Keep her crawling.
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She's a master of crawling.
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So it is a muscle to grow and it's grown in obedience.
00:32:57.039 --> 00:32:59.279
And I think that listening grid is so helpful.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:10.079
And part of you you mentioned this in the last episode, but everyone that receives prayer at Garden Church, our ministry team, whether something happens or doesn't happen, that they would walk away feeling loved is the whole sex.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:11.359
Yes, yes.
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:16.640
And so the framework that we have, because we believe that, as Joe Member said, everyone gets to play.
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:17.039
Yep.
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.519
The ministry of God is available for every single believer.
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.759
This isn't the special elite, this isn't the paid church staff, this is this is everyone gets to play.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:30.240
So how do we create the environment to have people walk away feeling loved as people are growing in how to do this?
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And you're not hurting people and saying, Thus sayeth the Lord stuff.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:38.640
So we have this grid and hearing his voice is okay, first, is it biblical?
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:40.079
Like so good.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:42.000
So when you're this, so this is about discerning.
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:43.440
Well, let me say one more thing and then go.
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.960
So the tenth way that you hear God speak is directly into your heart and mind.
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:47.279
Yes.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:58.160
This is this, so Dallas Willard says the still small voice or the interior or inner voice is also it's also called is the preferred and most valuable form of individualized communication for God's purposes.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:08.639
God usually addresses individually those who walk with him in mature personal relationship using this inner voice, proclaiming and showing forth the reality of the kingdom of God as they go.
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.280
So these are 10 ways from scripture that God speaks.
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.960
The the last three is circumstances, gut feeling, or sense, and then directly into our hearts or mind through the still small voice.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.760
This is where we where we mature, where we can be anywhere communing and dialoguing with God.
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:22.480
That's the goal.
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.840
Now, the question you're asking, and this is the grid, how do we discern it's God's voice?
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:29.840
So this is the criteria I want people to understand.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:30.159
Yeah.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.400
So number one is you grow in this first.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:33.679
Is is this biblical?
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.559
Is it biblical?
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:39.440
If it's not in scripture, we're going to be really cautious around how is this shared?
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:40.000
What is this?
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:40.719
Where does this come from?
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:46.480
If someone on our, you know, if someone's like, Oh, you know, I have a vision of the fourth member of the Trinity, it's like, well, that's heresy.
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:47.199
That's heresy.
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:48.559
That is not the voice of God.
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:49.599
That's probably Satan.
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:50.000
Yeah.
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:51.119
Vision is Satan.
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:51.599
Yes.
00:34:51.760 --> 00:35:00.079
And so how do we create a framework and a community where people are hearing and you know, it's okay to fail, but they're not going to hurt someone.
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:03.039
Yeah, and it's an environment of accountability too, in that sense.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:19.440
But with that, like, for example, I remember doing some pastoral counseling for a premarital couple, and their conversation with me is that they had prayed and discerned that because God is outside of time and they're married in the future, that they could have sex because they are married in six months.
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.000
So they had discerned that from God.
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:23.519
God led them there outside of time.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:25.679
And I was like, brains together came up with that.
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:28.800
But that's that's what we call, that's not biblical.
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:29.119
No.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:35.440
So we don't listen to our sense and wisdom that takes us beyond no the scriptures.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:42.000
I, you know, our our senses, our emotions, they are not evil in themselves.
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.199
There is, if if we don't, we have to submit them to Jesus.
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.800
Yeah, like we have to take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ, as Paul says.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.960
And so they're a they're a gift from God.
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:56.239
Like God's given us our senses, given us our imagination, he's given us the spaces to to hear him.
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.000
Why why wouldn't he use those?
00:35:58.159 --> 00:35:59.599
But we have to test them against scripture.
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.000
That's right.
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.920
Second thing we do is is this consistent with the character and nature of Jesus?
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:04.639
That's so good.
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:05.599
And that's what you're getting at.
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.239
If you have a distorted view, you have a distorted view of who Jesus is.
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.320
It's gonna be your your tuning into the voice is gonna be wrong.
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.239
Yeah, or your ability to understand what he's saying.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:19.280
So, like someone hears, like, oh, I have I have a word for you, and it's condemning them.
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:21.920
Like God's saying, You're you're a terrible dad.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:22.400
Totally.
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:22.559
Yeah.
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:23.920
Can I ask you a question?
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:31.440
Would God ever speak in a way of like like a prophetic word of knowledge warning, like warning you in fear?
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:32.320
I believe so.
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.880
I don't so this is what I've experienced today.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:36.079
So what does prophecy do?
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.559
Encourage, strengthens, comfort, and encourage encourages.
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.960
That doesn't always mean that nice things are gonna happen to you.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:41.360
Yeah.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:41.840
Yeah.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.679
Because why would you need to be encouraged?
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:45.360
Why would you need to be strengthened?
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.800
Why would you need to be comforted?
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:47.199
Yeah.
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.360
So if there's a prophetic word, and we can talk about words of knowledge versus prophetic words.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:52.719
Yeah, we need to talk about that.
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.480
Because I often believe a word of knowledge opens someone's heart, like, oh, God sees me.
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:57.119
Yes, yes.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:58.880
A prophetic word kind of sets it on fire.
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:01.039
Yes, such a who you're destined to be.
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:05.920
Word of knowledge, hey, you were last episode, yeah, you're looking for your father on the little.
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:09.199
The prophecy was I was with you.
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:10.320
I always went with you.
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:14.000
So the word of knowledge unlocked the wounded and then God set it on fire.
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:14.800
Because that's what it is.
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:15.840
It's like a spotlight moment.
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:18.079
Word of knowledge in itself doesn't do anything.
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:18.480
No.
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:25.840
Word of knowledge in itself, because the goal of the goal of a word of knowledge isn't to say, oh, look at me, I'm I have this word of knowledge.
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:26.960
It's to point to Jesus.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:33.039
So I I was in a at a restaurant and the waiter came up and I've just learned to be obedient to this voice.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:37.199
And I heard the Lord tell me to tell him how much I love how he loves his son.
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:41.039
Like I want him to know how much I see how he loves his son.
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:48.239
I'm with some friends that I just met, and I'm like, I don't want to be wrong, but I've been I I have to be obedient, even if I'm wrong.
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:50.719
And so I ask him as he's asking for an order.
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:51.760
I was like, hey, do you have a son?
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:53.440
I didn't oh, and this is the other thing.
00:37:53.679 --> 00:38:00.880
One of the things we do is we start looking through our carnal lens, our our our earthly lens, and we'll start like diminishing, oh, he doesn't have a ring on his finger.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:02.159
Oh, he looks kind of young.
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.159
We'll kind of add to something that God's already said, and we we diminish the trust.
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:07.519
It's like, do you trust me?
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:11.039
Like, even if you can trust me with a little thing, I'm gonna give you more, but trust me with this.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:13.920
And so I said, Hey, do you have a do you have a son?
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:17.920
Like, and he's he looks at me wide-eyed, he had long sleeves on, pulls his sleeve up.
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:19.679
Ezekiel's got tattooed on his arm.
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:21.039
He's like, Yes, I love my son.
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:22.559
Like, I'm I'm obsessed with him.
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.559
Like, we're going through this hard divorce right now.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.159
I have sole custody of him.
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:27.280
It's been really hard.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:29.679
I've been it just starts unloading on us, right?
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:36.320
Now, if I walked away from that saying, okay, that was it, like if the the reward would have been, look at me, yeah.
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:37.679
I had a word of knowledge for him.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.360
Points back to you, points back to me.
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:39.840
Totally.
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:41.840
But it was okay, God's after him.
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.719
He's like, I've been, and I start asking questions, what do you think is happening?
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:46.800
Here's like, well, I've been wanting to get back to church.
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:48.559
So we we got him invited to church, all this stuff.
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:51.599
So the the point was to point to Jesus, not to point to the word of knowledge.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:52.320
Absolutely.
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.000
Well, I'm gonna say, because I love this.
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:58.960
When we started doing this stuff, I think I constantly prayed for a word of knowledge when I would go out.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:00.800
Yeah, it was like the word, yeah.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:02.480
Yeah, it was constantly like, I just want a word.
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.760
And it was like I would go to somebody, have this word of knowledge, I'd share it.
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:06.079
It was right.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:07.119
And I was like, oh, awesome.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:08.159
Yeah, look what I did.
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:10.480
But then it wouldn't, it wasn't for the purpose.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:18.960
And then then we we realized like it wasn't about the word knowledge, it was about the message of love or or encouragement that God would want to give to his children.
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:31.280
I'll never forget I had this moment where I I there was a famous kind of guy that did this stuff globally, and he was he's like texting me, he's like, Hey, I'm gonna be in LAX for like an hour and a half, let's go get dinner, and then you drop me back off.
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:32.320
I was like, Great, I'll do it.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:38.800
Took him to Z Pizza and I brought one of our elders with us, Zach, and we are chatting, and I'm just like got my notes.
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:40.480
I'm like, how do I'm learning how to do this?
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:41.920
Like, how do you just go for it?
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:50.480
He's like, Well, there's a problem with you because what your your problem is you need God to confirm it a thousand different times before you're willing to risk and share it.
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:55.280
I just hear it and I do it, and I don't care because I've seen so many times God move.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:56.800
I'm like, that like how though?
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:58.880
And he's like, and he calls the waitress over.
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.480
He's like, This is I'm not kidding.
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:03.440
It's as fast as he's like, Hey, what's your name again?
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.000
So and so.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.559
And she's like, Hey, my friend Darren has a word for you.
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.000
That's literally what he does.
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:09.440
And I'm like, hi.
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.840
And he goes, Darren, what's the first thing that came to your mind?
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.760
Like, he's like, Zach, how about you?
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:16.880
And Zach's like, he's like, Darren, I know God said something.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:18.639
And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:21.440
Like, are you caring for someone who's in the hospital?
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:22.480
First thought.
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:23.840
She starts crying.
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.440
Her mom's in the hospital right as we speak, sick.
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:29.199
And he goes, Call her.
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:30.559
Darren knows that there's something.
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:31.519
We're gonna pray for your mom.
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.679
She gets on the phone, starts prophesying.
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:36.400
He starts prophesying over her the mom.
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:37.280
She's crying.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:38.400
She's like, How do you know?
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:39.519
Have you told him anything?
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:40.800
No, haven't told him anything.
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.280
And he looks at the girl and he's like, You're not talking to your brother.
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:44.559
She's like, No, I'm not.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:45.360
Call your brother.
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:47.199
Like, hang up the phone, starts talking.
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.360
This, it was the most insane thing.
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:54.320
And all the other tables are like, Where is the it was so amazing?
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.679
And he says to me, he goes, This is the line he said.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:02.880
He's like, Darren, at some point you're gonna get the kind of faith that you'll open your mouth and trust God to fill it.
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.000
Yes, thank you, Jesus.
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:05.119
I'm like, but how?
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:08.880
He's like, because you know God's love is so great, he wants to love on his kids.
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:09.440
That's it.
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.360
And you become a vessel for his love.
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:11.840
That's it.
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:13.280
And that that's what changed.
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.519
It was like, at first, it's like, I just want the word of knowledge.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:16.239
Does God speak?
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:19.840
And you're like, God obviously speaks, yeah, he wants to love his kids.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:20.079
Yeah.
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:26.480
I think one of the things that getting people past that barrier of just step into the flow of what the father's already doing.
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:27.519
Yeah, it's so good.
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:29.760
It's so easy to step into what he already wants to do.
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:42.400
I don't want to mess up the flow, but I just like this is something there's no this is something that I because when I came into like the charismatic space five years ago, I was like, I love the Holy Spirit, I love words of knowledge, this is amazing.
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:46.320
And then I was like, Yeah, let's go.
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:52.320
And I was so excited and I like was so excited like at GGB gatherings to start like releasing words of knowledge.
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:57.679
It was so encouraging to be like, oh my gosh, I have no idea what I just said, and now this person's crying, it's amazing.
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:08.000
And then I think equally, as much as my faith has been built in this area, I've also seen people use this, not even intentionally at times, but in the wrong way.
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:14.719
I've seen people's like personal biases really fuel words that they've given.
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:16.960
I've seen people probably lie.
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:24.960
I've I it's just been really interesting to watch people who it's like, okay, that was like so fueled by emotion and bias.
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:32.559
What do you say to that for the people who've been jaded by that and also for the people so that we don't ever go into personal bias?
00:42:32.880 --> 00:43:04.239
I want to hear what you have to say, but let me start by saying there there needs to be way more accountability around the things of the spirit, just because there have been a lot of bad charismatic leaders who who use prophecy for their own gain, who lied about words of knowledge, that literally, you know, dug up information on Facebook and social media to manipulate the event, to wow and point them back to themselves, or even, you know, people that know you and will call you out of a crowd because they they want a connection.
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:05.360
Like that happens, right?
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.119
Because that's the world we live in.
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.239
All the stuff we're talking about is not for platform.
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:11.840
It's not for the stage.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.920
It all happens in everyday, ordinary life.
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:15.440
First of all, that's where it needs to begin.
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:17.280
It needs to come out of this place of love.
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:21.440
Like we're not talking about great, we figured out how to do this on a stage and do it to the masses.
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:25.360
We're talking about at Starbucks, at your workplace, at the restaurant.
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:27.039
We're talking about where the meat is.
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.679
John Wembley used to say the meat is on the streets.
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:30.000
Wow.
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:37.360
What I would like to say is if you want the content of Jesus' ministry, you need to apply the content in the context.
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:37.679
Yes.
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:41.920
Which, if you look at his healing ministry, you look at the power encounters, it was always on the go.
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:42.320
Yes.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.440
Everything's interrupted.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:43.679
Yeah.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.280
Every story I talk about in Matthew 9 is an interruption.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.639
He gets interrupted by a guy who brings in a paralyzed guy in a mat.
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:55.280
He gets interrupted by a guy who falls to his knees and says, Come to my house because my daughter is dying.
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.760
And then on his way from that interruption, he gets interrupted in the interruption by the woman who touches.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.039
It's like all it is an interruption, all it is is on the go.
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:04.079
So let me start there.
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:06.079
That's the that's one is it's out there.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:08.079
The second, we just need more accountability.
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:14.320
There are people who operate in the things of the spirit who are prophetic or are prophets and do these things that are held to accountability.
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:20.000
Like Julian Adams is a great example, my friend, who's now in the UK and his wife Katia.
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:22.639
They are held with they I love them so much.
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:23.679
Shout out to you guys.
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.320
They there are words that Julian has sat with for years before he releases it.
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.320
So he he holds with accountability.
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:33.599
Like so, I and there's a lot of people like that that are operating like that.
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:36.639
Unfortunately, it has been used improperly.
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.320
And I think what do we do?
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.079
Stay committed to a local church.
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:46.960
Like people that you see that have been that have fallen down are traveling ministers that are not a part of a local church.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.039
This is for the local church.
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:58.079
Even the apes, the apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherd teachers, the five-fold ministry in Ephesians chapter four, they are for local, they're in partnership with the local church.
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:01.760
They're not a ministry into themselves, and they're building up local churches.
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:04.880
I just there's no world outside of ministry outside of the local church.
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:09.519
I just, whether you're an influencer, whether you're a prophet, like you're part of a local church.
00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:15.039
And then I would say the other piece is we can't be afraid of it because of the abuse.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:20.400
Like we don't we don't not have relationship because we were hurt by a relationship.
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:25.199
Like that's the the goal is to be fully healthy in these things.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.159
So that the guardrails that we have, like the fact that we're saying when you're listening to God, is it biblical?
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:31.280
That's a good start.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:31.679
Yeah.
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:32.880
We're teaching how to pray.
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:34.960
We're gonna start with does it line up with scripture?
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:37.280
Does it line up with the character and nature of God?
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.079
These simple things become a grid through which the harm is is limited.
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:43.039
What are the other ones?
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.280
Because that's gonna be this is gonna be how we correct.
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:49.119
I think, yeah, we consistently emphasize praying in pairs.
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.440
Also, I think this isn't all right, John's ministry.
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:57.599
There is such a giving away of this that everyone gets to play that we have to be a part of.
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:02.239
I think also how we give a word is really important, how we do that within our ministry context.
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:04.079
So it's do we say thus saith the Lord?
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.320
No, no, we say God speaking this.
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:08.559
I I could be wrong, but I get the sense.
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:10.800
Or hey, tell me if this resonates.
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:12.719
If it doesn't, like stop me.
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:22.159
So in the delivery of the prophetic or the word of knowledge, there's a sense of humility where it's it's a posturing of I might get this wrong, even as you share it.
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:22.880
This is so important.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:23.920
This is how we do it at garden.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:26.000
We honor them, yeah.
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:28.239
And I that that's the posture we have to take.
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:36.400
So I am this is how I see when I invite people into how to do this, I give them a model of a wedding.
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.480
We are ushers at a wedding.
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:39.119
Beautiful.
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:43.920
As the ministry team, we are there to make sure that the bride meets the bridegroom.
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:45.360
We are not the main event.
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:48.400
We don't add, who remembers their ushers at a wedding?
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:49.679
I don't remember the ushers I had.
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:52.079
Like, but they remember the bride and the bridegroom.
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:53.920
And so that is perspective.
00:46:54.079 --> 00:47:00.800
So if ever we think that we're the controller of it or somehow it's dependent upon us, it will become dependent upon us.
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:05.039
And so those mindsets, those guardrails of like this is the posture we take.
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:06.480
We are a non-anxious presence.
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.239
We are not thus, saith the Lord.
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:10.960
We are getting out of the way of what Jesus wants to do.
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:20.800
Sometimes, oftentimes, what I've seen a uh failure in is we add to things that God's spoken, and we think because it's only been he only said one word, we have to add to it.
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.280
And in that adding, we add our flesh to it.
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:24.079
So good.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:29.920
And I think I had a um this moment with this youth leader, and I just heard something simple.
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:32.639
I heard pen to paper, it's kind of a pen to paper.
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:35.679
And my mind wanted to go, oh, he's writing a book.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:37.280
Oh, this is the book building.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.119
This is what it's gonna be about.
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.960
You know, I I I know that he's he's interested in this type of thing.
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:46.480
So I'm gonna give him, I had all these things I want to, I was gonna add.
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:49.679
And I just heard this correction of like, don't say any more than this.
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:51.440
Yeah, pen and paper.
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:51.760
Yeah.
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:52.880
And it was completely different.
00:47:52.960 --> 00:48:02.800
He was just deciding between becoming a teacher or becoming a script writer for a future, and he ended up and the other thing is I gave this word to him and talked to him afterwards.
00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:08.159
Don't we train our people, don't change your entire life because one person's word, yeah.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:14.880
So it's not only training our ministry team, but how do you train a community to receive and carry and and steward a word?
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:18.880
And it was like, hey, don't quit your teaching job just because I had the sense.
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:20.000
Like, let's discern this.
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:20.880
Yeah, let's walk this out.
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:21.599
Walk it out and quit.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:23.039
Well, you sort of said this in your life.
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:28.159
Right, yeah, that's the the proper way of because the gifts are given for the common good of the church.
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:28.400
Yes.
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:32.559
And so it's a building up of the church, the local church, local church, the local church.
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:36.079
Because yeah, because we say church, we're like, great, my little no, yes, my podcast.
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:38.880
It's designed church because it's at held.
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:39.360
Yeah.
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:55.039
So what you're describing though is what a healthy culture of this looks like where the issues that you describe that have been, you know, publicly displayed of that need correction, part of the problem is that they they weren't operating in the context that we're describing.
00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:12.960
So the very the commitments to the things that we're talking about, the the values that we have, they create a healthy culture for a kind of prayer ministry where it's safe enough to have words of knowledge and exercise them in a community that's safe, where it's tested, it's challenged, it's corrected.
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.159
Like, how many times have we because our church has grown so much?
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:23.440
I've been in, you know, I've been like, hey, remind people not to put their hand on people's head, put it on their shoulder, like little tiny things that we don't blow on people.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:26.559
We don't blow, we don't usher in a windstorm.
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:30.719
Yeah, we don't shake or or move them back and forth or rock them.
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:34.719
We don't push them down and sometimes we'll turn the lights up.
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:41.440
Oh, I don't this is how I try, especially in new context when I'm I'm ministering in places that are wanting to grow these things.
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:50.480
I try to get rid of all the let's darken, let's make the lights dark, let's get the fog machine going, get the synthesizer in the back and piano player.
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:54.000
I'm like, forget all that, no music, lights on, quiet everyone.
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:57.760
I want to hear the sniffles, I want to hear the laughter, I want to hear the coughs.
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:07.280
I want everyone to experience the spirit of God coming in the room in an ordinary way so they can pay attention because otherwise we just condition people into emotional response.
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:08.880
And I'm just I don't want any of that.
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:09.760
I want the real thing.
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.320
We limit the ministry of Jesus to a particular setting.
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:12.559
Yeah.
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:19.280
And so then that creates a model in our own minds like, how am I gonna, you know, I need the keys in my in the grocery store, I need the keys in my office, I need the smoke machine.
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:23.119
It's that is not this is the Sundays are boot camp.
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:24.000
A thousand percent.
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:25.039
That's so great.
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.119
It's that's that's where it begins.
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:34.159
And so if we think that's just the place, then we're gonna miss the ministry of Jesus, it was meant to bring people to him.
00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:38.400
Can I tell you the most accurate word I've probably gotten from being sarcastic?
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:38.719
Yeah.
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:43.440
Years ago, I was at like a young adult service, and there was this person there.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:49.920
He was like a younger person who was sitting next to me, and in the middle of the service goes, I was like, Yeah, what's up?
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.079
He goes, You're gonna have a G-Wagon.
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:54.400
I swear, I swear.
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:56.559
And I go, What?
00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:01.360
And then literally two minutes later comes back, it's gonna be white.
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:02.480
That's what he's saying.
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:05.199
Yes, yeah, did it strengthen you, encourage you, comfort you?
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:06.239
I'm still waiting for it.
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:08.559
Maybe it's in your future.
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:10.719
No, but I'm actually not kidding.
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:12.000
And this is that's crazy.
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:16.639
This is someone who like went around giving lots of prophetic words, lots of words of knowledge.
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:20.960
So, anyways, things like that exist, and there are people who do things really helpfully.
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.519
And the thing is, he might be true.
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:24.639
He might have heard from God.
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:25.360
You might have that.
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:26.800
You don't know you don't know.
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.199
You said the best thing uh a couple years ago.
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:32.960
You said the spirit of the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus.
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:35.119
If it doesn't point to Jesus, it's not prophetic.
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:36.480
That's from Revelation.
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:38.320
Oh, I thought you said that you did say that.
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:39.599
That was the Apostle John did it.
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:42.079
You did say it.
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:42.480
That's right.
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:46.079
If it doesn't point to Jesus, I do believe that God is kindness in that.
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:47.519
I have a story, a car story.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:48.320
Can I share real quick?
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:49.599
I I have it in my notes.
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:50.079
Do you?
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:50.960
Oh no way.
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.039
So maybe this is just, I don't know, we'll see.
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:54.719
So, but this is the mindsets that we have.
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:55.119
Right.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:55.760
This is so great.
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:00.639
If we don't believe that God wants to give good gifts to those who ask, I just think there's an abundance.
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:02.880
I took a little retreat, I needed a bit of space.
00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:05.840
I went to um, there's a little retreat center in Palo Verde, St.
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:06.880
Mary's retreat center.
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:10.159
The grounds are great there, but I love the grounds at Tiranea.
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:11.840
Like just walking the grounds there is beautiful.
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:14.000
So I'm walking the grounds there all by myself.
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:19.039
I'm sitting under a tree and I'm journaling and I hear the Lord say, I'm gonna buy you lunch today.
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:21.280
And I'm like, I dismiss it.
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.320
I wrote it down, but I was like, that's silly, that's ridiculous.
00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:26.159
Agreement.
00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:27.280
I made an agreement there.
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:28.000
Like, right?
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:29.039
He's not gonna do that.
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:30.480
That's that wasn't the voice of God.
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:38.400
Sitting at this little cat that one of the restaurants at at Tirania and sitting alone, and this at the end of the meal, this these two women walk up.
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.679
If they're out there, there's a she was a pastor at a church in Pasadena.
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:43.679
She said, Hey, you're at Staff at Garden, right?
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.440
I'd done announcements that week before.
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:50.079
And she's like, Hey, I'm on sabbatical, and we were at Garden on Sunday and saw you up there.
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:52.000
My mom and I just want to buy you lunch today.
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:55.760
Buy me lunch, and I'm just like, I start crying.
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:57.599
And I open my journal up.
00:52:57.679 --> 00:53:02.719
I'm like, the Lord told me that someone's gonna buy me lunch today, or that he was gonna buy me lunch, and I didn't believe him.
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:04.400
And she's like, Well, just God bless you.
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:08.559
So I heard the Lord say, If you don't think I can't buy you lunch, then you don't know how much I love you.
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:19.280
And it was a week and a half later that a friend had told that God had told a friend of mine, hey, give John your forerunner, your car.
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:21.599
Okay, hold on, pause because this is a story I want to tell.
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:22.000
Yes.
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:22.480
All right.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:26.800
We are actively pursuing hearing God's voice in our church and generosity.
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:29.360
Like those are things we garden church is known for that.
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:35.679
So one of my friends has been asking me to discern with him this massive purchase.
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:41.280
He's one of my covenant friends, and he was like, I want to buy this built-out camper van.
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:44.400
And it's you know, over a hundred thousand dollars.
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:46.000
He's crushing it in business.
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:49.599
He's extremely generous, gives, tithes, like does so much for other people.
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:54.320
And and we he waited for weeks, like found this deal, waited for weeks, discerned it.
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.239
I was like, man, I feel like God's saying yes.
00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:02.000
Cause we we were at that in that season, we're like, we don't make decisions on big things with finances that we're not accountable to.
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:02.719
So he brought it to us.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:03.440
We were talking about it.
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.639
I was like, Yeah, I think you should do it.
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:10.880
And the the discernment was he's gonna sell his awesome Forerunner, which was an insane car and make a lot of money off of it.
00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:17.119
And what your dream car and he's gonna buy this car, which was a lot of money, and you know, he's gonna go, he got a deal.
00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:28.000
So he he he goes to to do it, and and he's sitting in church on Sunday in worship and he hears from the Lord, you can't sell the Forerunner, you have to give it to John.
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:35.519
And so you have this 50 something thousand dollar car that's gonna help pay for this bigger car that he's like discerned in confidence.
00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:38.960
And God's like, not only are you gonna buy that, you're gonna give this one away.
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:44.400
And so John has that story where he's learning to hear about free meal this guy when that lunch was bought.
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:45.679
I was like, I will need to.
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:47.119
And then okay, and then what happens?
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:48.480
He comes over to drop it off.
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:49.679
What does he do?
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:50.480
Tell me how it goes.
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:54.639
Um I'm I have my amazing car, 2007.
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:56.639
A blue blue monster.
00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:00.800
I bought this car because it was a good deal.
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:01.679
It's such a good deal.
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:03.760
When did you still when did you spill paint in it?
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:05.360
Because it's all I remember is the paint.
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:06.960
I'm not gonna call my wife, but she was the one.
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:12.400
I I was helping her, she's a professional organizer, and so I had all this stuff that I was like, simply tidy, professional organizer.
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:12.800
Let's go.
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:20.159
I bought the car when we were at we had we hadn't, it was like, you know, you're in a relationship and it's like you can make decisions to a certain point without asking.
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:21.760
I mean, yeah, I never had that period.
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:22.639
You never had that period?
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:22.960
No.
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:26.719
Well, like we were dating, but I wasn't like needed, I didn't need to ask her permission to buy a car.
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:27.840
I bought this bright.
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:32.480
She went, she went to visit her parents in Oregon, and I bought this car while she was gone.
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:34.960
And I was like gonna surprise her to pick her up in the airport.
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:38.159
And uh, so I picked her up and I had popped the trunk of this car.
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:39.760
She's like, Is this what is this?
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.039
I'm like, This is a car I bought.
00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:44.559
She's like, You bought this car, and it was just I love her.
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:46.559
It was, yeah, it was it was great.
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:47.360
I love the car.
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:49.760
It was the find you first season.
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:51.440
Yeah, I sold it for$500.
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:54.000
Gave them anyway, but sold it for$500.
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:58.880
And Zach ended up having Zach pulled up that that day and gave me the keys to the foreigner.
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:00.480
And what you couldn't believe it.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:01.199
I couldn't believe it.
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:01.760
I was shocked.
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:02.320
I couldn't believe it.
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:03.199
It was so hard to receive.
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:04.880
It was the hardest gift I've ever had ever received.
00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:05.440
It's so good.
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:06.719
That is amazing.
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:09.360
Okay, then we'll find that one while God's speaking.
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:10.800
He might have a G-Wagon coming.
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:22.559
Can I I want to I want to talk some more practicals and we'll close real quick because when we're talking about an environment that you can explore the voice of God and minister in the power of the Holy Spirit, we'll get I have these values I wrote for a long time ago.
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:24.400
I think they're in the training, maybe some of them.
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:29.519
Number one, whatever for our ministry team, we have values that we you'll get this when you go through the training.
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:30.960
Number one is compassion.
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:34.559
If you want to pray for people, you need to have a desire to pray for people.
00:56:34.639 --> 00:56:35.199
Yes, yes.
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:40.000
And you don't have to you don't have to pray for people, but it is a ministry of compassion.
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:47.199
Compassion pulls an individual outside of their problems and their stuff and helps focus beyond them, right?
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:51.440
And you move beyond answering their needs and you move into the ministry of Jesus.
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:56.239
So compassion is what Jesus felt when people were bound by sickness or demons.
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:58.639
He was moved to restore people into wholeness.
00:56:58.719 --> 00:56:59.039
Yes.
00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:00.639
It literally means to suffer with.
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:01.440
Yeah.
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:02.079
Compassion.
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:02.719
Compassion.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:06.000
The second is honor, compassion honor.
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:08.719
We honor the dignity of the individual.
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:19.840
We want to ensure people that come and get prayer and the way we pray honors individual with respect that they're receiving prayer in a sensitive way, in a gentle way, in a generous way, in a loving way.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:26.159
We view them not as a project to receive my word of knowledge, no, but as love children of God.
00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:37.360
And and like there are times where, like, for me, the way honor is confronted is when we shame people with confess, like like they're doing, like, I see people like shame people and all sorts of things, all sorts of things.
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:42.559
But what happens for me most of the time when I've tried to protect their honor is usually in the realm of the demonic.
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:50.239
So if people are dealing with demons and if they're manifesting demons, the demons regularly try to embarrass the individual or shame.
00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:58.320
And so it's we we you know, we've learned it, we cut it off immediately because this is a daughter or son of the king, and that there's no place for this here.
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:00.239
What do you mean you cut it off?
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:02.559
You stop them from causing a reaction.
00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:05.679
Literally to say you will not diminish this person's honor.
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:05.920
Yeah.
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:07.360
Be silenced in Jesus' name.
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:16.159
Yeah, we we take authority because if you're in a setting and demons begin to manifest in a worship gathering, demons draw draw attention to themselves away from Jesus.
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:16.400
Yeah.
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:24.639
So if you're learning how to do this, what we've learned is the easiest way to get things back to order is to silence the demonic, but to draw attention back to Jesus.
00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:26.559
So things are happening you don't know.
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:28.800
You just bring people back to exalting Christ.
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:29.119
Yes.
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:31.440
I do that all the time when I don't know what's going on.
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.480
Third is love.
00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:42.400
The goal for anyone that's receiving prayers to feel loved, and the space we create as a community is to show the love of God by staying in that posture of love.
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:44.320
The the fourth is openness.
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:48.239
We pray and invite others to pray as a response to what the Holy Spirit's doing.
00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:52.960
We're not expecting that we know we're we're creating an openness.
00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:55.440
And the last thing is just simplicity.
00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.360
So for me, we don't elaborate like so.
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:07.760
When we have words of knowledge or a vision, I tell people and I train them to pray the way God speaks to you is like the notes.
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:10.239
Discern the message for the person.
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:12.320
Don't you don't need to show them the notes.
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:26.079
So let's say you have this giant vision of rainbows and red cars and a blue boat and this green leprechaun, and you know, you're and you go through this elaborate vision, they're lost, you know, by the way God spoke to you.
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:28.320
Discern the message and make it simple.
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:28.639
Yeah.
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:30.960
I just think God's well, I want to wants to bless you with this.
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:32.320
So I want to encourage you with this.
00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:32.960
Yes.
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:35.199
Remember, it's all about Jesus.
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:39.440
If someone is open to receiving prayer, God's already working in them.
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:41.280
So you don't need to do anything.
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:42.320
So good.
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:44.000
Like that He's already moving.
00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:48.400
So the best prayers we train train people to pray is I bless what you're doing, God.
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:50.000
More Jesus.
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:51.440
Come, Holy Spirit.
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:53.039
Those are the prayers, like simple prayers.
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:56.079
And then we said this already, but faith is spelled R-A-S-K.
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:58.559
So you're gonna have to step out in faith at some point.
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:05.440
And then the last thing, and we'll we'll go to another session in a little bit, is we don't stop praying.
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:15.679
So if someone wants to get healing prayer, yeah, and there's a specific training we've done all over on how to pray for healing, which we've borrowed from the vineyard, is we'll pray lots of times for them.
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:18.480
I've seen people get healed after one prayer.
01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:21.039
I've seen people not get healed at all.
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:26.320
I've seen people get gradually healed over a course of like five, six, seven prayers.
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:33.039
And the reason we say that is like, you know, we there's a way to pray, but one of the things I've seen is you just keep going persistent.
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:34.639
You like Jesus teaches this, right?
01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:36.480
Like, be the persistent widow.
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:37.119
Yes, yes.
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:38.400
That's how we're taught to pray.
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:41.440
Be the nagging neighbor or the persistent widow.
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:43.360
Yeah, that's how he teaches us to pray.
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:46.639
We're gonna knock, we're gonna seek, we're gonna ask.
01:00:46.800 --> 01:01:03.360
And if we have the right view of God, then we know that his desire is wholeness and freedom and love and justice and healing and righteousness and the presence of God and all the things we read about his desires, that's the kingdom of God manifests, right?
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:05.119
And and eventually it will be like that.
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:11.679
I was just finishing writing in Revelation, the book, and I get to the end, and it's like, no more tears, no more pain.
01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:13.440
Like that's where this story ends.
01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:15.280
We know, we know how the story ends.
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:16.320
We know how the story ends.
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:17.119
Isn't that amazing?
01:01:17.199 --> 01:01:19.840
That that his desire is met once and for all.
01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:24.480
Yeah, creation is restored, healing has come once and for all with the age to come.
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.000
And so we're moving that direction.
01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:29.599
Doesn't mean we're gonna get our way right now, but it does mean we press forward with that.
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:30.079
That's it.
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:30.480
That's it.
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:30.960
Is that good?
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:31.760
That's so good.
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:32.159
All right.
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:33.679
So, John, thanks for being with us today.
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:34.800
Of course, John, yeah.
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:35.840
This is a great episode.
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:37.920
Sorry for the rant about all the influencers.
01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:39.440
Hopefully, that didn't offend anyone.
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:40.960
That was the best part.
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:42.159
Let us know what you think.
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:43.199
Thanks for joining us.
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:44.239
We'll see you guys next week.
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:45.039
Love you guys.